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- [00:02]
A
Hey, Sal. Hank. What's going on? We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana. And it was so easy. Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana. Just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.
- [00:25]
B
Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. Ugh.
- [00:31]
A
You said you were over him, but his hoodie's still in your rotation. It's time. Grab your phone, snap a few pics and sell it on Depop. Listed in minutes with no selling fees. And just like that, a guy 500 miles away just paid full price for your closure. And right on cue. Hey. Still got my hoodie? Nope. But I've got tonight's dinner paid for. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste list. Now with no selling fees, payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is writer and stylist Becky Malinsky. We're talking Saks skims by Nike, London street style, the Burberry show, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. I am in London. It's been a busy few days. I landed in New York very late on Friday night. Then Saturday morning I went up to Columbia Business School to interview Alex Mill chairman Mickey Drexler at their annual Retail and luxury goods conference. Thank you to everybody at the Retail and Luxury Goods Club for having me. And thank you to Mickey for inviting me. It was. We had a really good chat. It was not recorded, so I hope you were in the room then. I spent all day Saturday going to galleries and shopping and eating. I loved my sandwich and salad at Gem Home. I highly recommend it. It's on Mott Street. Although I will say I felt incredibly old. I would say it's really good to go there if you want to see how young people dress. Young, affluent, cool people dress. But the key I. I've heard is if you are older like me, go in the mornings during the week or at night. It ages up a bit. Don't go at noon on a Saturday if you are a 42 year old mom. That night I flew to London. I landed in London on Sunday morning. I went to the Emilia Wickstead show and then Simone Rocha and then I had dinner with my friend Emily Cronin and Then we went over to Session Arts Club for the British Fashion Council's London Fashion Week cocktail. Then on Monday, I did meetings, I did some people watching, and then I went to Burberry. So Becky and I are gonna get into all of that and more. And be sure to check out line sheet this week. I've got some updates on Saks Global, a very interesting look into the Murakami by Louis Vuitton strategy, what else is planned, how the deal is structured, that sort of thing. And I am also looking at what's happening behind the scenes at Savage by Fenty, including a fundraise, executive changes and more. And be sure to check out Sarah's Tuesday story on madewell. I'm recording this on Monday, so if it doesn't go through, we are writing something about madewell someday. But I hope you enjoy this with Becky. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is editor and stylist Becky Malinski. We're talking the best and worst of Milan Fashion Week. Why stirrup pants and white tights are trending, the end of bags, and so much more. Becky Malinski, welcome back to Fashion People.
- [03:44]
B
Thank you, Lauren. Pleasure to be here. Becky.
- [03:48]
A
How are you? I miss you.
- [03:49]
B
I'm good.
- [03:50]
A
It's been two days since we saw each other.
- [03:52]
B
It's good to be home. Miss you. Miss the weather. We had some great meals, as always.
- [03:57]
A
What was your favorite meal? My favorite was Sandy, our new favorite restaurant.
- [04:02]
B
I loved it. I felt so bad, though, that I didn't like the pasta. They were horrified.
- [04:06]
A
I think that should be our, like, little date that we do before Prada every year.
- [04:11]
B
Sure. It was great.
- [04:13]
A
It's a nice tradition. The hard thing about Milan, we don't see each other as much in Paris. The hard thing about Milan is we really are together constantly the whole time. It's every meal, the best thing, but also the hard thing. Like, you know.
- [04:28]
B
Yeah. That meal, though, was so beautiful. I'm still thinking about it. Like, pretty.
- [04:34]
A
It was very pretty. We're hosting a Puck dinner there in a couple of months, which I'm super excited about, so.
- [04:39]
B
So I wish I could come.
- [04:41]
A
Hey, you know, you never know what the brand gods create for you, Becky.
- [04:47]
B
That's true.
- [04:48]
A
Becky Malinsky is available for salon events if you would like to pay her a lot of money to go to
- [04:54]
B
them
- [04:57]
A
or do a shopping party during Salone. Great idea. We're just. I'm just a Big old Max Stein here pitching you to people. Okay, we're gonna run through a bunch of stuff because we have a lot of ground to cover. Let's talk Milan Fashion Week. Do you want to just go through the shows and say what we liked and, like, go through each one, or do you want to say what you liked and then we can go to the stuff that was more challenging?
- [05:24]
B
Sure. I mean, there was a lot to like, actually. I thought it was a great season.
- [05:28]
A
Really? Tell me what. What you felt like a lot to like was because. I disagree with that.
- [05:34]
B
No, I thought there was so much. I think the shows that I was excited for delivered. I should put it that way. Maybe not a ton to like, but what I had expectations for proved their ability to give us some good fashion. And obviously think of two. No, three. At least three. No, I think Prada, obviously.
- [05:56]
A
Great.
- [05:57]
B
I really liked Gucci. You know, looking back at it, I've looked. I really liked Gucci too many times. Liked Jill Sander, liked Marnie, liked Diesel.
- [06:08]
A
I did, actually. These are the five that I also liked. Yeah.
- [06:13]
B
So, I mean, that's pretty good for like, three and a half days of fashion shows.
- [06:16]
A
Sure, sure. Well, we gotta get into the Gucci of it all. What did you like about these shows? Was there anything connecting them? Yes.
- [06:26]
B
I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm gonna write about it this weekend. Subscribe.
- [06:31]
A
Please subscribe to 5 things you should buy.
- [06:33]
B
Please do and think about and think about. Okay. I thought a lot about after Prada especially, but it really was a theme that seems to make its way into everything these days that matters is this sort of human touch. And it kind of goes into the whole Met Ball thing, too. Which is strange, because when I first heard that theme, I was like, what? But this idea that all we really have is our human element and our humanness, and all of these clothes look like they were worn and they had the patience of something that you really cared for over time. And they were threadbare and they were patched, and we're in this time of high tech. Are people even going to matter in 10 years? And the things that I thought were really good looked like they were touched by a person or they were really well thought out by a person. So it's the same thing with Jill Sander in that those clothes you have to see in person. Jill Sander as a brand tends to be flat on screen because it's about the construction, about the fabric, about the way it fits on the body. So that was a Theme that I saw throughout. And obviously Demna had a polar opposite take, but it still had the same idea of. We're talking about that.
- [07:55]
A
I went to a couple previews today, which I don't do a ton of those, but I was asked to go, and I was like, Monday I went to first of all. Today I had a really luxurious day. I wrote all morning, which is my favorite thing. I got up at 6am and wrote for three hours. I wrote the entire Monday newsletter. Then I went to the monastery pop up and had a facial by Athena, which was amazing. Afterwards, I was like, did they put makeup on me? My pores are so small. Like, it looked like. I don't. Obviously don't wear foundation. Who. Who wears foundation? But I looked.
- [08:28]
B
I just bought foundation for the first time in my life.
- [08:31]
A
Was it the Victoria Beckham foundation drops
- [08:33]
B
Westman atelier foundation drops.
- [08:36]
A
The only two foundation drops.
- [08:38]
B
And someone told me I was glowing when I wore it. So amazing success.
- [08:44]
A
I use the Victoria Beckham, but I'm very pro Gucci Westman. This is a pro Gucci Westman pod. I don't know who isn't pro Gucci Westman. But anyway, I went to a couple of previews, and both designers, I'm not going to reveal who, but they both talked about, like, one talked about diy, the other one just talked about, like, personal style. And I think this is something that Prada picked up on way back. But you could really see it at Marnie and you could really see it at Prada. The season. But this idea of, like, we all have enough clothes, and it really got away from a personal style. And I think what Rapha Miucca have been doing the last few seasons, especially starting with the season where they showed a million different pairs of shoes, is going back to this idea of, like, it's about we have too much. Everything is very expensive. It has to be about enjoying fashion again. And the other thing was one of the designers today, many of the clothes are reverse reversible. And then I went to Loewe in the afternoon. I stopped by Loewe and Celine and tried some stuff on. I tried on the Loewe blazer, which is 100%. I'll send you the photo. But then I also tried this beautiful dress on that had ruffles, and I tried it on backwards by accident. But, like, you can wear it either way. And it's very expensive. The reason they're doing stuff like that is to bring value. Without, like, what else are you gonna do to bring value? It's beautifully made. The big mistake I made was I only went to the Celine men's shop, which randomly did have some women's stuff. But the point being. And it was so good. And I was like, why isn't there more women's? And it was. Cause it was across the street. But anyway, the point being that, like, I think Raf and Much are sort of pragmatic in some way of, like, they know what this is. They know what this industry is. They also understand that, like, we need to enjoy these clothes and the amount of technique that went into that collection. If you want to talk about anti technique at Demna, Gucci, it was the opposite there. And you could really feel it and see it, and I really enjoyed it. I was, I would say, a little bit disheartened at the end of the week. Not because of the collections per se, although the only ones that I really, really loved were Jill Prada. And I really liked Gucci. I'm very hot for a skirt suit right now, so we all know it's. I. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Where am I gonna wear all these skirt suits?
- [11:14]
B
Honestly? You're moving to Paris, so you're probably gonna wear them all the time.
- [11:17]
A
I hope so. I don't. I still don't see a scenario where a skirt suit, other than, like a dinner I'm hosting, is an appropriate full look. But we're gonna try.
- [11:27]
B
But why not? We'll come back. We need to come back to this later.
- [11:30]
A
So formal. Yes. So anyway. But I did feel like at the end, there was so many expectations around Gucci, and I am not. And I wrote this on Friday. Demna cannot save caring. Like, people are insane. Like, the head. That is a crazy headline. I'm sorry. I know that people need clicks and. And that is the obvious thing. But, like, one collection is not going to save it. But what I do think and what I did feel coming out of this was like, what is going to happen to Kering? That's what I wrote about on Monday. It's not clear to me now that, like. And I've written this before, probably about six months ago, like, will caring exist as a thing in 10 years? I don't know. And I do think the industry is changing dramatically. I do think that sales are going to be up year on year from this collection, whether the Internet liked it or not. But just generally, usually when I leave Milan, I feel like it's tied up in a nice little bow. You kind of see what. And there were a Lot of great trends. You kind of see where the industry is. There's tons of independent companies, family run companies. Then the big conglomerates are present. And we should talk about Fendi, which I also really liked. Or I would say I really respected it. But I would say that what I came. I wasn't like super energized by anything other than probably Jill. But that's personal. Like, we like those clothes and want to wear them. It's less about thinking that that's gonna revolutionize anything. And I was impressed by. I was really impressed by Marnie. I think one of the things Meryl Rouge, I believe it is, needs to do next season is bring more of herself to it. It felt like, to me, it was as if she had gone in a thrift shop when she was a teenager. She's 42. She's around our age, ages. And it was all filled with Marnie and she put it all together. And I love that because that was very, you know, a big inspiration when we were in high school, or maybe you were in middle school. But I want a little more of something out of it. I thought the kind of western look that she brought in was a start to that. It was a good starting point.
- [13:45]
B
I think that styling is also how people want to look now. So I also felt like I had to step back. When I was there at the show, I was like, oh, I'm not sure. I mean, I loved the first look, the white astrakhan, like, very like Milanese. But looking at it again and again in the pictures, I'm like, these are actually really good knits. They. This is how people dress now. They want it to look a little messy, a little less matched. I think she made me feel like maybe I'm just old because, like, I remember going to Consuelo's shows.
- [14:16]
A
Yeah.
- [14:17]
B
And it felt so sophisticated and mature. And now this felt young. And I'm like, well, maybe I've just gotten older, but this does feel like the way girls want to look. And so I. I'm here for it.
- [14:29]
A
Yeah. And I also think she was really. She looked at the first five collections, which I believe she said backstage that most of them aren't even available on style on style.com LOL.
- [14:40]
B
On Vogue Runway, we're so old.
- [14:42]
A
Love you, Nicole Phelps. Anyway, that they're not even available on Vogue Runway or you can't see them or something like that. I don't want to misquote her, but it to me felt of that. When I first learned what Marnie's Was. And it was interesting coming after. I also think this just this personal style thing, a lot of it came from Dario at Versace. It's like. And Celine and Michael Ryder. It's like putting it all together. And I think they all did that in their own way. I would say Jill was separate from that and it was more of a idea. And to me, I was like, okay, what is the five year plan to get this guy to Gucci? When Demna's bored, he's like, I just want to do my brand. We need to create the Simone Bellotti five year Gucci plan. Not sure if he's interested, but we are. But the thing was, like, there were lots of accessories that I really liked there. I thought it was clean and clear and pure, not minimalist. I think it's like, when you talk about Jill Sander, it's more about pure. But then also you could see him in it, which when I was leaving, I was with one of our mutual friends who shall remain nameless. And he said, you know, it reminded me of Bally, but also is very Jill. And I was like, well, that's the point. Like, Simone was Bally.
- [16:08]
B
Yeah.
- [16:09]
A
And also it did feel like a Jill Sander collection. So, yeah, I thought that was like, for me. Let's talk. Yes, let's talk. Fendi. And what did you think about it and what do you think it says about what's happening right now?
- [16:25]
B
I listened to Vogue's podcast this morning, actually, when they, as they were talking about it, Nicole and Luke were talking about it, and I could appreciate, you know, Maria Grazia's feedback of, like, I make beautiful clothes and I'm just kind of always being put out, hung out to dry. And I looked at the collection again and it is just pretty clothes, the way people want to dress. And I agree, like, it doesn't always have to be about the heritage at this point. Who is the Fendi customer? She is thinking about this woman. This woman has places to go. This looked good. I'm sorry. I liked it.
- [16:59]
A
I thought it looked good. I don't. Did anyone other than Kathy Horn give it a bad review?
- [17:04]
B
It got bad reviews. Like in the Instagram TikTok world, when I was like, first looking at it, there was lots of negative feedback and I was just like, I don't understand.
- [17:14]
A
All I have to say is I don't want anyone to ever send me one of these review TikTok reviews again. I do not care. I do.
- [17:20]
B
Here's what I. This kind of ties into the whole theme that you were talking about about Milan, though, where it kind of feels like the industry is floating and we don't know what's next because it kind of felt like that with a lot of brands. Like, it was the same with Armani. It's just sort of like floating.
- [17:34]
A
Yes.
- [17:34]
B
And sure it's, it's beautiful and it looks like armani, but without Mr. Armani, how does that evolve? And it actually made me think about Chanel, because Armani exists in its own bubble in the way Chanel always used to exist in its own bubble in Paris. And so will they now have to sort of make their way into the fashion conversation in order to keep this brand going? Like, I think we're just waiting for that. And I think we're waiting in that sense at a lot of these companies.
- [18:05]
A
Yes, I agree. And I think there was also. I went to the Margarita Missoni macapani kind of pop up. She has this little shop right by where I stay, which I had no idea. I stay in a fancy neighborhood, but apparently I do. It was super fun. And also she had the collection and she had all this, like, stuff sourced probably a lot from ebay, a lot of home stuff. And it was so nice. And I mean, the collection is very great. And I was just thinking about, like, what's happening with Missoni itself. It's being sold to this licensing company and her family's there and they're so amazing. There's all these family run businesses that are sort of stuck, like Ferragamo. The collection, he says, Maximilian, it was beautiful. It was really nicely done. It's gorgeous. Multiple people said to me, where would we ever buy this? It's sold in a few of the boutiques. Like if, if they were really behind him, they would try to figure out like a really amazing exclusive with a great retailer that still, you know, ships and sells things and still pays. You know, there are a couple in the world and it's. He's already been there for four years and whether or not he's staying, I don't know, but it's just too bad. It feels like a little bit, a little bit like you're right, floating in the Armani thing. Yes, it looked better. They obviously used a stylist. They obviously used a casting director. It looked a little more modern. I think the challenge is now look like Marco Bizzari is now on their board. They have some more like real legit people on their board. I think the challenge is, it's not Chanel. It's not the. Wertheimers The Wertheimers are like, I don't understand how they do it, but they are amazing managers of that brand. And they had the foresight to hire Lena Nair. They had the foresight to say yes to Mattu. Like, if it was about their personal tastes, like, obviously, Mattieu and Carl couldn't be any different. And also, Armani's fashion business doesn't really make any money. It's really only inching by. So I thought Fendi. I wrote that it was a big middle finger to all the people who are mean to her. And. And the thing about it is the clothes look beautiful. They're very nice. I remember having lunch with an executive here, and she's French but lived in America for a long time. And she said, it was very early in my Puck days, and we're having lunch, and she said, you know, I go to these weddings, and every woman is either wearing a Zimmerman dress, which is, what, $1,200 or maybe $2,200 now, and a $6,000 Dior dress. And because these dresses are beautiful. They fit people. LVMH wants to keep that customer. Jonathan is attracting another customer. I got a lot of intel this week that the Chinese customer is really on board with the new Dior, which is great for him, but he is not gonna have the same customer as Maria Grazia now they have it. And also, her accessories were great. The shoes are really good. Like, I would not buy that stuff, but it doesn't matter. There are people who do. And I thought it was a good statement to the world. Like, you need to please all different kinds of customers.
- [21:10]
B
Yes. And the one thing I think is interesting about all this is that Maria Grazia does Maria Grazia where she goes, Demna does Demna where he goes. I mean, they all are themselves. And so watching them all just flip houses and now that they're getting settled in and they're still just themselves has been interesting. And I know all of these reviews have said, oh, and Demna gave us something totally different, but, like, it's still him. Those floral Balenciaga dresses are now floral Gucci dresses. And that's okay, but there's just. The expectations are so high, and at the end of the day, like, it's still. It's a business. We have to. They have to sell clothes.
- [21:47]
A
And I think on the Demna piece, I think what I believe his. His skill is, is interrogating this industry.
- [21:56]
B
So that's for sure.
- [21:57]
A
Made a brand called Vetement, which means close. Like, everything he does his most famous thing when he started was taking Levi 501s and patching them together and selling them for $1400, which at the time felt like so insane now.
- [22:13]
B
And we all wanted them.
- [22:14]
A
Yeah, I never, I didn't buy them. I wrote a piece for the Wall Street Journal about them. But you know that someone put Miz in front of his name. Not me. We're not, you know, Mino was on. Mino mystery was on maternity leave. So you can guess who did it. But I was so embarrassed because someone put it and I didn't see it in the read back. I was so mad. Anyway, the point being that, like, I just think what he does is he says he looks at things, he studies them and he says, this is. Let me just put it back in your face. And for me, that was enough. I think the challenge was for a lot of people who were there the first time around when Tom Ford did a lot of that stuff. Although he put fur line slides, Alessandro style on that Runway. The floral dresses could also be pinned back to Alessandro in a way like Demna's. Demna's furry slides were all black. But I think the thing was, and this was the last two collections and maybe it is because I like the Tom Ford stuff. Although when I was a teenager, it wasn't like I was like, yes, I would like to wear Tom Ford Gucci. I was, I was obsessing over Marc Jacobs in that era. But there was stuff that I liked in this collection and there was tons of stuff I liked in the pre fall. And I've never felt that way. I like Demna. I really, really respect him. I'm not a person who buys his clothes. There were multiple things that I wanted and I think that is interesting.
- [23:43]
B
I think that you go, no, I think there was a huge range. There were so many things to love. Like the pea coat was beautiful, the dresses were beautiful, that black skirt suit was beautiful. The one thing I think is gonna be to be interesting is that the way people shop now and the way all of this will make its way eventually into stores is like that first grouping with the leggings and the high end customer will buy skims. Now. It's not like, oh, well, you know, the whole argument like, I can buy it at Zara. I think that's an annoying argument. But the way people shop, high, low now, it's how are they going to create a brand culture to sell some of this stuff when like skims is good and then we have to talk about the bags too. Because a lot of that was just, you know, just a skeleton to sell the bag. And we both have feelings on bags.
- [24:33]
A
We're gonna talk about bags overall. Let's talk about the bags and shoes. And that will allow us to talk about Bottega as well. I don't smoke and I never have, but I feel like everyone else I know is suddenly smoking again. Of course, it's a free country, so if you like smoking, do what you will. But if your New Year's resolution is to quit or even to use nicotine in a healthier way, check out Quit with Jones. Visit quitwithjones.comfashion to take the free quiz and use code fashion to get 15% off your personalized quitting journey. That's quitwithjones.com fashion taking back control starts now. Thanks to Quit with Jones for supporting this episode. And just a heads up, the mints contain nicotine, which is an addictive chemical. Jones is FDA approved and available for those that are 18 and older. For years, Gone south has been a podcast about crime in the American South. But for our new season, we're widening the lens. Through deeply reported narrative driven stories, we're digging into the myths, scandals and power structures that still shape the south and in a lot of ways, the country itself. Follow and listen to gone South Season 5 An Odyssey podcast, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your shows. I wrote on Monday, I think that LVMH is really winning in the bag space. I think the Celine bags are obviously awesome. I saw the little new soft trio today. They're really good. The Loewe bags are great. The Dior bags, not for me personally. They're good. Like people are buying them. People want the clover. Lady Dior. This is the first time in the the history of the Lady Dior that other people other than Princess Diana want it. Like, it's really, it's gonna be. I'm just kidding. But it's going to be like, I think the bags are going to do really, really well at Dior. I think they're going to do well at Loewe. I think they're going to do well at Celine. They're definitely going to do well at Fendi. All the shoes, I would say that Kering's challenge right now is that they are not winning on any level. And then on top of it, this bag crisis generally. But I thought the bags and shoes were too straightforward. At Gucci, they didn't feel I wasn't excited about any of them. And that relates to Bottega Veneta as well. I just didn't think. I thought. I mean, the bags at Bottega are just gorgeous because the quality is just so good, and you can see it on the Runway, and it's incredible. But I wasn't blown away, nor the shoes. I didn't think anything felt memorable or exciting to me.
- [27:31]
B
I think less than the bags being straightforward. My biggest issue is their medium size and their structuredness. We talked about this a bit before that, like, I want a little tiny bag I can bring to dinner, or I want something to fit my laptop, and I want it to feel easy. So something that is super stiff and structured and it's sort of in the middle doesn't really have a place in the modern woman's lifestyle because our bag is our phone now. So, like, I thought those pouches from Prada that were in store now were so good. That's the one thing I bought when I was in Milan, was a little pouch, a silk pouch. Because it can go in my laptop bag, you should definitely get one. It can go in my laptop bag. I can bring it out at night, and it looks effortless, but a bit cool. But this idea of, like, everything relying on this, like, daytime bag, it feels so outdated. And I just don't know who wants that. And I think there's just been, like, the it bag. The it bag. The it bag has pushed down everyone's throat for so long now that the general public is sort of like, at the same place we are at as editors.
- [28:37]
A
Moving to Los Angeles five years ago, I spent a lot of time looking for a bag to take to lunch to the Polo Lounge and San Vicente Bungalows, which was the only two places I ever dressed up in la, because I went to lunch there at least twice a week. And I bought an Hermes secondhand bolide. And I have a little Isaac Raina Navy bag that I would occasionally wear. And I was very interested in a white plume from Hermes, which I think I will get secondhand someday. But the reality of it was I didn't really use the bolide that much. I brought it to Paris. I agree on the laptop thing. I think that new Loewe bag, that's like a reissue. We should look up the name of it. I think in the laptop size, that's something I would be interested. I think the very flat Celine luggage bag that Michael Ryder has done is also an interesting concept. But I think you're right. And what I would say is, on Friday, I wrote a very quick, like, just random Thing being like, bags are over, nobody wants a bag. Sunday style should write about it. Lizzie Payton, who you write a column for at the Financial Times messaged me and said she wrote a column being a personal column being like, I don't need bags anymore, I just want to take a paper bag. But I said to her, I was like, you need to do a reported story. Because the reported story, this is my like me being a know it all. But a reported story on this will go. It will be the world's biggest story in the entire world. Like a personal story about it is okay. But the amount of responses I got from random people, my friends who have nothing to do with fashion industry and then people on social media dming me being like, yes, I do not want a bag. Like I have that Orly leather jacket. It has giant pockets. My Versace men's coat that I bought this summer, this winter, vintage giant pockets, like seven pockets of pocket inside. So I can carry more precious things inside. Like the breast pocket. I just don't want to. I don't even want to carry a clutch anymore. It just makes me stressed out. And, and so I think they also need to manage for that. Whereas shoes I still want. I almost bought these little Celine booties today that are €1200. Like I didn't buy them. Everybody, don't worry. I think some people are worried about my shopping situation. But these companies, what I think I kind of realized coming out of this Milan season and we'll see what happens in Paris, maybe I'll feel more energized. But the reality of it's so over, which I've quoted before, it's true. Yes, The Chinese middle class consumer's coming back. Yes. Dior and Gucci and all these things are gonna be up year over year. And Celine, because they have new designers bringing in new life. Yes, it's gonna be. It's not the end of the world. But I also think like the way people live their lives is just so different now. I barely went anywhere in Los Angeles. I didn't wanna take a huge bag to school drop off. I wanna take my barber jacket. Like there was a funny. I got fed this sub stack today about how many barber jackets should you own? Unfortunately it's a paid post, so I couldn't go through. But I think the answer is two, right?
- [31:59]
B
Yeah, probably. Wait, what two though?
- [32:02]
A
Well, I have a normal one and then I have a Noah in red.
- [32:06]
B
Right, right, right. Okay, so like a barber and then a fashion one. Right? Okay, that makes sense. I have a Barber and a row.
- [32:12]
A
You don't need the bed. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You don't need, like, the bedale and the other style that I can't remember the name of. You just need, like, one normal one.
- [32:23]
B
No, but that's the thing.
- [32:24]
A
Fun one.
- [32:25]
B
And I think, though, like, because you were saying LVMH is winning with the bags. All of those bags you were talking about have a bit of ease and a bit of, like, softness. So when Demna released the first collection last, when was it? Now. I mean, time has no meaning.
- [32:40]
A
It was last September.
- [32:41]
B
It was the. So the. He made the Jackie soft, and I was. That was actually really exciting to see. Like, oh, it's like, oh, that's fun, and I would want to see it. The difference is all these bags on the Runway felt really stiff, and I was just like, I don't know. Who wants a stiff bag that only fits their phone?
- [33:01]
A
Yeah. I saw some of the softer material bags. I was with some of the Gucci people on Friday in large size, and they looked nice. And it was. It was like cotton. Not cotton, but, like soft material. But, yes, I agree. It just felt. Yeah, it felt too straight. The Loewe bag's called the Amazona, so it's a reissue. It's like a redone bag. But, you know, it's almost like a suitcase. Like, I think a suitcase. Essentially. I want a suitcase. Like, I want, like, a little briefcase. I want a little briefcase, like, to carry around.
- [33:35]
B
Basically, what you're saying, every good bag is based on the plume.
- [33:38]
A
Yeah, it's the plume, which I might. You know, I might get this as my briefcase. And then a smaller plume to take to lunch where.
- [33:44]
B
This is cute, though. I like it.
- [33:46]
A
It's really good. I really, really like it. And it's soft and nice and it's soft. They did it in good colors. Yeah. So, yeah. So let's talk about some other trends other than the end of the bag. And I like that you recommend this Prada bag because it's important. The other trends I wanted to discuss with you, stirrup pants, because I know you're a big stirrup. We saw them at Jill. We saw them at Prada. Marie. Adam Leonard is going to have them tomorrow. And then I went to a preview today. Marie Amelie Sauvet was there, and she had on the most amazing pair with, like, a tailored, banded waist, which, I don't know. Maybe they were Vuitton. I have no idea.
- [34:27]
B
I'm sure they're Vuitton.
- [34:29]
A
They were so good. And, of course, I'm not gonna be like, where are your pants from? But can we talk about the. They. I know you're. You're pro. You're the ski look. These pants have truly not come back in fashion since 1993. Like, they have come back in trend occasionally, but they've never really hit. I feel like they're gonna hit this time, I think.
- [34:54]
B
So. I feel great about this. What I really like about it is, Well, a. I like it for fall because it can tuck into a boot easily. Like, obviously, it has, like, a real functionality. And there's a lot about boots now. You know, the western boot is so big.
- [35:10]
A
Yes.
- [35:10]
B
And so you need, like, something that can tuck in but not be a legging. So I love it for that reason. But I also like it how people are doing it with, like, a little mule, you know, like, barefoot with a mule. I don't know. I think it feels, like, a little sexy. It's a way to wear a really straight leg pant that stays put. It's gonna be difficult, though, with, now that I'm thinking about it, tailoring, because, like, I have to get every pant hemmed. So that'll be. That'll be interesting.
- [35:38]
A
You have to. Or for your clients, because you're pretty.
- [35:40]
B
I have to, really?
- [35:41]
A
Do you have. Well, how tall? Five, six.
- [35:44]
B
I'm five five, but everything ends up needing to be hemmed.
- [35:48]
A
I have pretty short legs for being. I'm. I'm almost five, eight. I think it will be okay because they're. You just pull them higher on your waist, I think. I think they're. It's not an issue.
- [35:58]
B
I love it. I like it.
- [36:00]
A
Yeah. I liked a Jill. How they were done with you, like, blue socks, and that looked cute. I'm. I'm very excited for them. I need to figure out the right shoe to wear with them. I would not wear them with heels. That's not my thing.
- [36:15]
B
But Swedish stockings, actually just. I was just looking at their spring stuff. Has a stirrup tight.
- [36:22]
A
Oh, fun.
- [36:23]
B
Which I think might be a good way for people to ease into it, to try it out.
- [36:27]
A
I'm very pro, and I also. I just really like that stuff. Slim. I might get the Loewe jacket, and I might get that and wear it with the turtleneck and stirrup pants and a pair of flats. I think that would look cute.
- [36:41]
B
Is this just sort of a continuation of the whole, like, 80s American prep thing?
- [36:47]
A
Yeah, I think it's moving out of the 80s and into the early 90s.
- [36:52]
B
90s.
- [36:52]
A
Yes. Into the early 90s, not totally there. Although the early 90s is having an inorganic surge because of the CBK stuff. I went to co today. Congrats to Stephanie Dana. It was I think her first like Runway show. It was sort of presentation Runway. They didn't bill it as Runway, but it was. And she did some bodysuits and I was messaging with someone after that. Like a brand like that, which is very minimal, very Calvin. 90s is going to really benefit from this sort of inorganic bounce back there, even though we've already done that. The other. Speaking of tights, the other thing I wanted to discuss with you was this taupe white tights thing that Leandra's been. She did with her collaboration with Swedish stockings. She already did it. They were a Jill. There was this adorable woman who works at Net, a porter at the Simone Rocha show that I took a photo of. She was wearing white tights and white shoes together. And someone was like, oh, I think Marissa Meltzer was like, you could still wear that. Because I posted I I'm too old to wear this. She said we would still wear something like that. Was like, I'm not wearing white tights and white shoes together. I'm not 22 years old and drunk on.
- [38:00]
B
Would you wear white tights in general? Would you wear white tights?
- [38:05]
A
I'll definitely wear. I think I'll wear taupe tights. I think I would wear look if I'm. It depends if I'm wearing the taupe Jill Sanders shoes with like a very sheer white type and a gray skirt or something. I don't know.
- [38:22]
B
But I think that that's the thing about a white tight. You can't really wear like a tall black boot. It's going to. It actually makes more sense with the white shoe. You know what I mean? Or you're talking about it.
- [38:34]
A
I have a lot of shoes.
- [38:35]
B
It's tougher with a dark shoe.
- [38:38]
A
I think I would wear a taupe shoe with a lighter taupe type. Yeah, I guess I don't know if I can do. I don't know if I'm going to do a white type. I just think that they're going to become a thing. Not with. Maybe not with 43 year old women, but they're definitely. I like it.
- [38:57]
B
I mean, I like that. I like the idea of colored tights. Historically it's been very hard to source good colored tights, woolly tights, white tights in the United States. It's the kind of thing that like there's so many options at monopri but here it's very challenging. Yeah. So I'm here for it. Just to bring more options stateside.
- [39:19]
A
I used to wear red tights a lot.
- [39:21]
B
I wear red tights quite a bit. I have two pair.
- [39:24]
A
I haven't done that since probably 2010, but I was very into them with my, like, acne booties and my Isabel Marant coat that I still own.
- [39:33]
B
I wear mine often under. I have these big Junia Levi's jean collab with big rips in them. And then I wear the red tights in the winter underneath.
- [39:43]
A
Very fun. Get in the game with the college branded Venmo debit card. Wreck your team with every tap and earn up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash, a new rewards program from Venmo. No monthly fee, no minimum balance. Just school pride and spending power. Get in the game and sign up for the Venmo debit card@venmo.com collegecard the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA Select Schools available Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo me stashterms. $100 cash back per month. I have created the most advanced AI soldier. The wait is over. Tron Ares now streaming on Disney. We are looking for something, something you've discovered. Give me something to believe and some of us will stop at nothing to get it ready. The countdown is complete. There's no going back. Our directive is clear. Hang on. Tron Ares now streaming. Streaming on Disney. Rated PG 13 let's talk about Bottega quickly. Sure. I am a person who I try to give people as many chances as they can because this is a really hard job. And just because I don't like something instinctually, doesn't mean that it doesn't have a value to people. And I think that with Bottega, I went backstage and we did a group interview with Louise Trotter. It was really interesting. She was like, I got feedback last season that the stuff was too heavy. So I lightened all the tailoring up. And I said to her, I said, did you think it was too heavy? And she said, not at the time, but like, I'm open to feedback. Which can you imagine a man saying that? Like, it was so. And it was. I thought it was lightened up. She didn't use a stylist this season. She had been using the same stylist for a really long time. I thought, personally, as someone who has struggled with her at Joseph, I really struggled with it. I thought it was a better showing than last season. But as one of our friends said, I often am like, it was better, it was better in inching better. I don't think it was dynamite and I think that brand could be dynamite. That being said, if the shoes and bags sell and people like that, like, I think there's a woman who will buy that black and white fluffy coat. I liked that coat. I thought that was really fun. Yes, there was elements of Cookie Monster around, but like the blue, the fluffy. But I like the sparkly, like reddish garnet colored look. I like the sparkly red look, true red look. And I do think she made a real effort to be the brand that Bottega Veneta she believes it should be. And it is her personal taste. It doesn't align with what I am excited about right now. And also I'm not sure I do think there is a customer for it. I don't know if it's enough of a customer. But that being said, Matthieu's clothes were awesome. I don't think a lot of people were buying them. I think it was really about the bags and things. So I don't think she's ever going to. It's sort of in a Maria Grazia way, but perhaps not as sharp. She's never going to please the critics. Like, she just isn't. She's not a directional designer. She doesn't. It's all about her personal taste. It's not about her. She's not, she's not moving anything forward in this weird way. I want her to succeed and it's. It's complicated because I don't think it was totally successful and I kind of want to just wait and see if people buy it. If people buy it, then I'm going to be a little more understanding in the way I am for Maria Grazia, whose clothes I don't have any interest in or, and that don't excite me. But honestly, I respect it because they're so well done.
- [43:49]
B
I think what you're saying is exactly right. I just, I struggle to see how these clothes fit real people. Yeah, I'm not 5 10. Most people I know are not 5 10. And the clothes are just really big. And I agree. I would love, I want her to succeed. She's obviously a very successful designer. You know, she continues to, you know, get amazing jobs, so she knows how to design clothes. But these clothes are just so big that it's hard for me to even see the shapes.
- [44:23]
A
Yeah, it's interesting because she is not five' ten. She's a very petite woman and she just wears her clothes big, but she.
- [44:29]
B
I also wear my clothes big, but this feels oppressively large.
- [44:35]
A
She had on a really nice navy blue V neck sweater backstage that I was like, that's good. And it had a BV and sort of cursive. I'm sure it's for sale somewhere. It was really good. But, yeah, I think it's a challenge. And it did at the end, this whole, like, well, what is the caring situation again? It really doesn't matter what any of us think. All that matters is the numbers. So we'll see. But.
- [45:02]
B
Exactly.
- [45:03]
A
But it was complicated. There were two other things I wanted to chat with you about, Becky. One was, speaking of personal style, I'm Dario Versace. Dario Vitale for Versace. You and Leandra did a very cute, like, cross post. It was like, you remember when there would be a friends in, er, crossover. It was kind of like that where you did cross posts of the Dario sleeveless rugby that Max Berlinger and some of our other friends have also bought. I loved it. I thought it was so fab. I can't. When I looked this morning, there were still a few sizes on my Teresa, but I bet it's sold out. Now tell me about how this cross collaboration came about and what. Why you love this. This rugby so much.
- [45:51]
B
Oh, my gosh. Well, that's two separate questions, but we've actually been talking for a really long time about doing some sort of cross post where we take a piece, take three pieces and style them in different ways, because we gravitate towards a lot of the same clothes, but we obviously wear them incredibly differently. And when the Versace hit and I was going, like, obsessively going through the new arrivals on Versace, on Mytheresa, on all the sites, I was sending things to her. I was like, well, what about this? What are you getting? And when I said this, I love this. Like, I'm definitely gonna try this. She said, oh, I liked that one too. I said, this is it. This is the moment that we do this cross post. Because this is a crazy top. And I'm sure whatever we come up with will be very different, obviously, because we have different bodies and different comfort levels with body coverage. So it actually was pretty organic and easy. But I was so excited to start seeing this Versace come in. And it kind of felt so urgent, and I felt like I was almost hyperactive when it was all coming. So I was like, this is it. This is our only moment. It's not like there's gonna be some similar style next season. Like what I like I have to just commit to and buy right now while they have it. So I kind of got obsessed for a couple weeks there. But I love this top. I have it. I bought a. I also bought a belt. I'm thinking about a couple other things.
- [47:17]
A
I love the shoes. I'm not going to buy them because I'm going to wait for the Jill pumps, but more you.
- [47:23]
B
Yeah.
- [47:24]
A
I love. I love the Versace ones. And honestly, they are so comfortable, but they have a ribbing on them, and I think that would bother me. Well, like, in my life, they'll be
- [47:35]
B
comfortable because Trevor designed them for me.
- [47:37]
A
The Versace?
- [47:38]
B
Yeah. It's so good. Mm.
- [47:39]
A
Well, I believe it. I mean, he is. Damn, he is good. I wonder if he has done a similar style somewhere else that Trevor.
- [47:47]
B
I know.
- [47:48]
A
Amazing.
- [47:48]
B
Everyone needs to just go buy the Versace they want now. And you will not regret it.
- [47:52]
A
No, you won't. It's so fabulous. There's a lot in the Paris store. I walked by today and, like, there's a lot of dresses and stuff that I didn't see at the other shops. So maybe more of the products coming in. Finally. Becky, I wanted to just chat with you really briefly. There was some news on Friday. I believe that Conde Nast is selling them their LGTBQ platform, started by the great and powerful Phil Picardi, to a holding company that owns a lot of queer publications, including out magazine and the Advocate and all of that. Whatever the reason, they're selling it. In the note to staff, Roger lynch, the CEO, also mentioned Glamour itself, which there have been rumors of them selling those for years. He didn't say they were selling them. He said they're gonna quote, unquote, explore new partnerships and also licensing models and things. And, you know, I wrote on Monday, of course they need to do this. One person mentioned to me, you know, Glamour and Silver, two of the only brands that were founded within the publishing company. Like, a lot of Conde Nast titles were bought by Architectural Digest. Vogue, obviously were not part of Conde Nast originally. Glamour and Self were both developed within Conde Nasty. But I don't think that matters in the end. And they're just. And I'm just curious, you're a Glamour alumni and what you feel about the brand, and do you think that that brand, like, matters now in the grand scheme of. I don't, but, like, I never worked there, so I did write a piece about wearing a Septum ring around town. And what it made me feel for the front of the book once, let me just tell you, it didn't make me feel good.
- [49:28]
B
I loved working at Glamour. I worked for Cindy Levy.
- [49:31]
A
She's really great.
- [49:33]
B
It was a different time, though, and it was a time when it was the time of network tv. You're talking about ER and Friends. Like, it was the time of we all got all of our information from the same places. And Glamour was important then. So it felt like I was working at an important place and, you know, sending information into the entire country. And that's just not the way that we get our information or consume our entertainment anymore. And I think one of the things that Glamour struggled with as audiences became more compartmentalized was that you kind of had to pick a lane. And you can't be everything to everyone now because there's just. That's too much. And yeah, so it's. They're gonna have to, like, niche ify themselves almost. And. But the problem is they were developed as a brand as, like, for the every woman. And so that's a really hard thing to do. And that's something we struggled with when I worked there. It's honestly something we struggled with at off duty when I worked there. Is. How can you. How can you please multiple different audiences? You really have to narrow down, like, well, who is your target audience and figure out who is that person you're talking to and really talk directly to them. And I think it's very hard to get lost when you're trying to. To reach such a broad audience.
- [50:52]
A
Yeah, it's like GQ could become a fashion bible. Glamour couldn't do that because there is already a fashion bible within Conde Nast. And something I've written about a lot is the kind of bottom dropping out on CPG Advertising, which Glamour was the most profitable magazine in that building for a long time. And once the CBG companies realized they didn't need them and the same thing, I'd say Cosmo is in a similar boat. Like any of these companies that, like, you can kind of get all that information on TikTok, you really don't need them. And yeah, it's too bad. But I think, like, if I were Roger Lynch, I would get rid of them or I would license them or whatever you. However you want to say. Partnership like that makes financial sense. And honestly, they've laid so many people off within that building. I don't think they can do many more layoffs to be able to function in that way. They can put more money into Vogue, put more money into gq, Wired, Vanity Fair, which are the four brands, and the New Yorker, obviously. But that's run separately, so it doesn't.
- [52:04]
B
That's the thing. They'll never be able to compete while there's a Vogue. It may as well go somewhere else where they can be reinvented as this great Americana heritage brand and live on its own as a fashion magazine. I mean, I remember when I was there, Anne Christensen was the fashion director. She's who hired me, and she had made this little. I still have it. This little mini magazine with Patrick de Marschelier of all these archival photos from, like, past Glamours. And it was like, just a little tiny book. And the imagery was so good. And I was like, there is a lot of history there that could be dug out. And, I mean, we are like, it's Ralph Lauren's world now. Everyone should pay attention. Like, there could be a future for it if someone else had it and could do it in a scrappy way and really just sort of figure out what the lane is. But I don't think it makes sense, obviously, in a world where, like, all of the funding goes to Vogue.
- [53:04]
A
Well, yeah. And also in a world where you and Leandra exist and you do so well on your own, why would you ever work at a publication again? Like, this is the thing that you two are the most powerful fashion editors, like, proper fashion editors in America right now. And I'm not just saying that because you're my friends. I'm saying that.
- [53:26]
B
I was gonna say according to you.
- [53:28]
A
No, I mean, according to your stats. Like, it's not. If I didn't know you, I would think the same exact thing.
- [53:35]
B
Like, thank you.
- [53:35]
A
There are other people who I'm not as good friends with who are also doing well, but you two are the leaderboard, and there's a reason for that. And I've said this about Leandra for decades. She would have been the editor in chief of Glamour if she was 10 years younger. Or, I mean, maybe not, given the way Conde Nast works, but she should be. And so I think that I really wish these legacy companies would think ahead a lot and invest in the future, and they just don't. But anyway, Becky, I'm invested in your future.
- [54:13]
B
Thank you.
- [54:14]
A
Your future in Paris. When? I'll see you on Thursday.
- [54:17]
B
Friday.
- [54:18]
A
Okay. See you Friday.
- [54:20]
B
I'll see you Friday.
- [54:21]
A
I'll see you all weekend. I can't wait for Hermes.
- [54:23]
B
We'll talk soon. Bye. Thank you.
- [54:25]
A
Bye. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to to our executive producers, Puck Co Founder John Kelly, Executive Editor Ben Landy and Director of Editorial Operations Gabby Grossman. TooGood and Company. Coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers Real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.