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- [00:01]
Lauren Sherman
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- [03:35]
Jacob Gallagher
Thank you for having me back. I'm happy to be back.
- [03:37]
Lauren Sherman
Happy to have you. The fans are just going to go wild. They missed you.
- [03:42]
Jacob Gallagher
I guess we'll see. Yeah, we'll see.
- [03:44]
Lauren Sherman
I had fun with you last week in Los Angeles.
- [03:47]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah, it was good to see you. So much back, I guess on your old turf. But yeah, true.
- [03:52]
Lauren Sherman
So what do you, what do you think about la? Because you really did it every single day. I saw you, you'd be like, I went to these 15 different places. I saw art. I saw 15, 18 different people. I was supposed to. The only people to see in la, I saw you really worked hard. You, you got the New York Times money worth on this trip. What did you, what was your general observation of, of that city right now?
- [04:18]
Jacob Gallagher
So I would say I hadn't been to LA in two years. And so I was kind of just trying to fit in as much as I could. I think that it's interesting because I think from one perspective, we were at dinner. I'm writing this right now. So hopefully by the time this comes out, my newsletter about this will be out. We were at dinner and a friend of yours kind of said that LA is a very bad shopping city for women, but a very good shopping city for men. I think that I probably agree with that. I think that the men's stores in LA are, are quite good. And I think you can tell that they're doing well and expanding. And, you know, like, Mohawk General looked completely different and that store is now pretty impressive. You know, everyone was talking about how Beams Japan is opening its flagship somewhere in downtown. Pretty soon Departmento in downtown was in a new location. I just was like, oh, all this has kind of changed and everything looks nice and everyone's spending and, you know, I mean, l. A is such a bizarre place because on a random Tuesday, you can just be in a store and it's packed and people are spending money and you're like, what do you. What do these people do for a living? What is going on here? Why are they buying the row on a Tuesday afternoon? But, you know, I also just think there was perhaps a moment where it felt like there were brands that were maybe emerging out of L. A. I don't know if I feel that as much anymore. Like, I did go out and see Eli in Venice and Eli Russell Linnets. Eli Russell Linitz. He now feels like the one that's. That's kind of. Kind of out there in terms of, like a fashion brand that's out there, I guess. You know, Mike Amiri, of course, is also still in L. A, but it was more just for me, kind of getting the lay of the land of what people were buying and kind of LA as a shopping city, because I was also just interested in, you know, Zenya and Hermes being there. Where was the money being spent and how was it being spent? That was kind of what I was trying to figure out.
- [06:10]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Who said that, Molly or Amanda?
- [06:13]
Jacob Gallagher
I think that Amanda said that. Yeah.
- [06:15]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah. I think it's interesting you mentioned Mohawk General, which I was with Scott Sternberg of Entire World and Band of Outsiders fame quite a bit last week because I conveniently rented a house across the street from his. So I was like, he was basically my temporary husband for second husband for the week. But we were talking about Mohawk, and he was just saying, like, he will go there and drop money no matter what, because they do such a good job with it. And I shop for Dan, my actual husband there a lot. The women's, no, no bueno. Like, they have all the right brands, but everything I've ever bought from there, I end up selling, and it's not the right stuff. Whereas the men's is great and it's, you know, from the Dries to the Stussy, like, everything is just. There's always something really good there and Discovery and all of that. But, yeah, I tend to agree with that, that there is. There's good vintage in LA for women, but that's basically it. And the Bodie store, I guess, the Bodhi store in Paris, I prefer over both of them, but I think that the one in LA is really nice. And that whole kind of area around Melrose where BOD is. But, yeah, it's an interesting place because a store can be dead. The one that we discussed quickly was Maxfield which is not dead. There's like tons of people in Maxf all the time. And it's amazing. And you understand why Phoebe Filo chose Maxfield over other options of, of where to sell. But I think it's such an isolating place. Like everybody is just in their house all the time. So you. Some stores are just totally empty, but they could do like $70,000 in shipping stuff to someone's house for them to try on. It's not a. And that's the part of it. It's just not. It's a. It's a hard place no matter what to sort of get, get your bearings. But it's obviously such a huge driver of revenue for so many companies that they were willing to have like Hermes and Zegna, two of the companies that are still performing really well in this market because their client tends to be that like very high, high, high end client for sure chose to. And Dior as well, chose to have their off piste shows there. So what did you think of the shows this week? Maybe we can start with Hermes, since that was, that was like the big, big reason we all went. And then Zhenya two months later was like, we're also showing there, which was very convenient for everyone.
- [08:51]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah, Very, very shrewd timing by Zhenya. I would say. Very canny of them to tack it on there. I found that to be a very good Hermes show, I thought, you know, I definitely think that of the, this, the few women's ormez shows that I've been to, that was probably, I think my, my favorite one. I think that was probably the best one. And I felt like there was something, you know, you get some level of anxiety, I think, or at least I do when you, when you hear these destination shows, you're like, oh, God, is this going to be some, is there going to be some corniness here? I always kind of have that, that, that concern in my head of, you know, how much are they going to lean too much into the, the LA of it all or wherever they happen, wherever these brands happen to be. And I felt that show felt like it could have been anywhere. And I think that it wore whatever it's kind of American coastal awareness. It wore that pretty lightly and it was just nice clothing and I thought it was very well composed. And, you know, certainly I think you can. I like an Hermes show where you can really tell the Hermes authority on craft. And it definitely felt like that in there. A lot of. I thought the leathers were quite beautiful. I will Say, I did not love the I Dream of Jeannie style, like, fringe legged pantsuit thing happening. That. That was like. I could not wrap my head around that one. It looked better on the Runway than it did on the rack, somehow. But it did. I was. Because I guess you kind of couldn't fully tell what it was on the Runway to me, but I was like, that's not a good garment. I did not like that. But everything else, I think, did kind of work for me. And I felt, you know, definitely felt like a. A reflection of. Look at how big we are as a company. To slap everyone to Bel Air, to build a pavilion on top of a hilltop where evidently Jay Z and Beyonce had had a party previously. Like, every. Everything about it was just a very flexi setting and that. Listen, again, good Autumn. It worked. I thought people left and had a good evening. And, you know, it was a good collection.
- [10:55]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I. I agree about the sequined one piece thing. It's interesting because her last. Nadej Van he or Vani or however you say it. Do you know, since you speak French,
- [11:09]
Jacob Gallagher
Jacob, I was gonna say, I'm gonna leave this to you. You're the Parisian resident now. Your pronunciation.
- [11:14]
Lauren Sherman
I haven't started my classes yet.
- [11:16]
Jacob Gallagher
During your time there in Paris, I
- [11:18]
Lauren Sherman
heard at the dinner the night before, Diane, the US CEO, pronounced it in a way that I was not expecting. So I had always thought it was like von he, but. Do you want to correct me?
- [11:29]
Jacob Gallagher
No, no, go on, Go on.
- [11:30]
Lauren Sherman
It's fine.
- [11:31]
Advertisement Voice 1
Fine.
- [11:32]
Lauren Sherman
Anyway, in her last collection, she had a one piece thing that was like, maybe eel skin or something, like. And it was also not good. I don't know if it's the one piece of it all, but I think, look, I thought the collection was great, and I loved the colors. I love. I love the way she. I was talking to someone at the show, and essentially what she does with the. With the bags, which I forgot to include, I think, in my. In my show notes, but is she goes to the bag people and she essentially shops their collection and says, I want this bag in this size with this color leather, and the same with the shoes. And I love that there were like satin bags and I mean, satin shoes and satin dresses. And there was like a little bit of an 80s thing. And it felt to me way more in conversation with what's happening in fashion right now than it typically does. I really love her clothes. I think she's, like, super sharp and to the point. And this felt like, you know, if you look at Valentino, Or Chanel that are very sort of 80s inspired, but modern. There was something to it that there was a lot of. Sort of more embroidery than usual. There were a lot of textures. Our friend Becky is always saying that Hermes shows are too leather heavy. Obviously they have to display the leather, but she feels like they go a little too far. Thought this was a really good example of using other textures and making the leather look more textured to kind of lighten it up like the velvet. There was more color, more print, all of that stuff. But, yeah, I thought it was. I thought it was more in the conversation, which was interesting. The other thing is, like, that pavilion and all of that stuff. What I wrote about it was like, if you're going to do something like that, that was the chicest version of what you're going to do.
- [13:19]
Jacob Gallagher
Correct.
- [13:20]
Lauren Sherman
Build a structure. You get Kevin and Charles, the cool art directors, to design it with. You get a cool architect to build it. They build it in three weeks. It was like this beautiful butter yellow. The invitation, when I got it, because I was like, I'm not going to get an invitation because I'm not staying at the hotel. I was really sad. I get the invitation. The most beautiful invitation I've ever seen was like the lightest yellow ever with green writing and this little satin ribbon. And it was just so elegant. And the thing that I thought was interesting is they're doing. They're more in the conversation in. In other ways, too. Miley Cyrus was at that show, like Julia Louis Dreyfus and Nick Kroll. Sure. Like, these are people who are. Have inherited wealth who would be Hermes clients. That makes sense. Ina Garten was at a show a couple of seasons ago, which was amazing. Having Miley Cyrus, that's like having a real celeb at your show. That, to me, is like an indication that they're playing a little bit more in this fashion conversation. And I thought, if you're gonna do it, do it the way. It still felt like it was the Hermes way. Even though they're having. They're not calling it a resort show, but it's a resort show. They're not, you know, all these things that they're like, it's. We don't do it the same. They are doing it, but in their way. And I thought it was really nicely executed. And afterwards, there was a long line to get. You had to take golf carts down to the cars that they had for everybody. And to get to. If you wanted to go to the hotel to get your car or whatever. And the line was very long. And I ended up staying later with Alyssa Zachary from High Sport because she knows Nadej. And she kept being like, I have to talk to this person. I have to talk to this person. And I ended up waiting with her. And the thing Nadesh said that I thought was interesting because I said it felt like a little messier. And she said, well, I, I, I would call it freer. And she said, you really have to be a sniper in Paris. You have to be so to the point. And here she could be a little more open. And I was talking to someone else who said they just find that these collections of hers tend to be better. And I always thought that about, like, Maria Grazia. I saw she did a, a collection where they, I, I feel like it was Calabasas where they built this. It was like, somewhere. And it was the New Mexico artist woman Vaginas. What's her name?
- [15:47]
Jacob Gallagher
Georgia o'.
- [15:47]
Lauren Sherman
Keeffe. Yeah, Georgia o'. Keeffe. Inspired. And it was great. It was like, the best collection I've ever seen of hers. I always think Nicola Jaska's resort collections are better. I think it gives them an opportunity to sort of play, and if you do it right, it can, it benefits the client. It's something interesting for media to look at. So I thought they really hit it out of the ballpark or whatever that saying is. I thought Zenya was also good, but to me, the impressive thing was Villa Zegna at the Chateau Marmont, which was crazy. Tell us about your experience with Jodo Zhenya at the Chateau of Marmont. Villa Zegna.
- [16:31]
Jacob Gallagher
Well, I just want to make one more comment about Hermes, which is that it is funny that we talked a lot about the pavilion being built. I'm going to go to Europe, what, in two weeks now, the men's shows start, like, less than that. And so many brands build things there for their shows. Like, it is funny, like, it did feel like the European mentality of, yeah, we'll just, we'll just build a thing and put it there, and it's a box on a hill.
- [16:51]
Lauren Sherman
Like, obviously, it's so much prettier than any of those.
- [16:54]
Jacob Gallagher
Like, it was so much prettier than the Dior Giant boxes they make. You are correct on that front. But yeah, and, and I, I will just say, you know, my, my kind, Nadej, in a certain way was. She's now, I mean, I asked her about it. Like, you can't not ask her about longevity, because she has been there for longer than most designers now. And you know, I think that you can read that in so many ways. I felt like I was reading this as. Yeah, you're, this is what happens when you have a designer there and they're settled in and they know what they're doing and you give them the confidence to feel like they can do what they want to do in these moments. And that's why I think it's funny because we talk so much about, I mean, we talk all the time, who's going where and you know, all these changes and everything like that. And then when you have someone that's stable and that has been there for a while, you kind of see the, you can see the fluctuations and what they do differently. And it makes it almost easier for us in a way because we're not talking about newness all the time or debut or what have you. We're just talking about what is probably a mid career show and, you know, where that fits into both her work and the brand itself. Um, and I just, I wanted to mention that because I just kind of walked away with that thought of like, oh, you know, we don't have that many, you know, and we certainly don't have that many women designers. We don't have that many designers that have had kind of a tenure like that anymore. And you know, who knows? I mean, if she goes the route of Veronique over there at Umesh, might be there for another couple more decades, but I guess we'll see.
- [18:23]
Lauren Sherman
I give her another 10 just from kind of getting a sense of her. I don't know if she wants to be there for 40 years, but yeah. I also think an important thing to note is that her first few collections were not well received and she was not a person who people knew a lot about. All they knew was that she worked at the Row and she worked for Celine and she had worked maybe Margiela too, like all the cool brands. She had worked in the studio and she had been at the Row for a long time, I think four years, which is pretty long for them in particular with designers. And I liked it from the beginning because I think she's cool and interesting. A lot of people really didn't like it at the beginning and it took, I don't know, at least five years for people to get on board and. Whereas, you know, the designers before her were Christophe Lemaire, who is a quiet designer but really highly regarded. I don't think anyone ever pans a Lemaire, especially now. But like, even back then, I don't think People were panning La Mer shows, and then before that, Gaultier, which was like. And then before that, Margiela. So, like any other place, she wouldn't have made it. And they kind of were just like, you know what? Hermes comes first, and we believe in this person, and they gave her the room to grow. And now she's sort of coming into her own and she's gonna launch couture for them. So I think definitely 10 more years, but. But it's an interesting. It's just kind of one. Another reason Hermes is singular and is not as much as my piece on Monday, is a lot about, like, they're starting to play in these markets that they never had before. They launched Beauty Color Beauty. They're launching skincare in 2028. Grace Wales Bonner, a person whose career you've probably followed closer than anyone else, she's their menswear designer. She makes hit items. How are they going to deal with that? Like, I was thinking about all the shoes that Nadej has done or commissioned, the clog and the cowboy boots and things, and how that sort of changed the way our generation thinks about Hermes. And so it's a really interesting moment for that company where they are still, they sort of stand alone, but they're trying to play more with how the consumer consumes the other brands. And that's tricky. And it'll be interesting to see how the Dumas family balances that and manages it over the next couple of decades.
- [20:55]
Jacob Gallagher
Decades.
- [20:59]
Lauren Sherman
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- [22:18]
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- [22:51]
Lauren Sherman
Speaking of another family. Yeah, not sixth generation, but I believe third generation. Well, fourth if you include his sons, but Jill do Zenya. What a guy. We both got to spend some time with him last week.
- [23:06]
Jacob Gallagher
I, yeah, I mean, I've, I've met with, with Jodo before. I. This was your first time meeting Jordan?
- [23:11]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. It was amazing. I'll never forget it.
- [23:13]
Jacob Gallagher
There you go. No, I, I also, I, I, there was a Villa Zenya here in New York. So I've, I've seen this concept before, this kind of, I think I called it Universal Studios Italian edition in, in my review. That is, it is very play acting, very theatrical, very suited for, for LA in a certain way, I would say like, you know, the gardener clipping the things, the, the butler greeting you. It's like, it's a lot of artifice and a lot of theatrics to lull you in to spend some money on expensive linens and silks. And I think that's brilliant. And, and, and clearly it's a model that's working for them. They did take over a significant amount of the footprint of the Chateau Marmont, which I'm sure was not cheap whatsoever.
- [23:58]
Lauren Sherman
I couldn't believe it. They even rented the pool area. I was like, how can you rent that for six days? It was amazing. Yep.
- [24:05]
Jacob Gallagher
So, you know, I think that they're on the men's side. There is just a client that does tend to want to shop like that in privacy. They want a real handheld experience. They want to be told that they look great and stuff. They want to be directed toward things that they should be looking at and buying. And I think that it's a smart model. It's not obviously see now, buy now in the sense of you get it. It's see now, buy now in the sense of you get it in six months. It's just a real made to order trunk show type thing that they just happen to stage at a very high production level. As I said, it clearly is working for them. They've done it now for several iterations. And I think, you know, I talked, I asked Jill, do this. I said, why did you not do this in New York where I know your customer base is stronger than it is here? And he kind of funnily pointed up to the sun a little bit and was like, well, you know, it's also. It's just nice here for one thing. And two, I think that particularly for what they show, it does feel very, and correct me if I'm wrong, you live there. It does feel very kind of LA rich guy in its sensibility, the linens and the kind of silk investment things and what have you. It's not really formal in any way, but it's expensive casual wear. And that feels very, you know, that feels like it has a customer base in la. And I think that probably, as we speak, they're probably still taking appointments in Villa Zenya and doing quite well.
- [25:34]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. Were you with me when that guy who was in like a linen Zenya suit and then had a giant ball gray snake necklace and a, I believe a bracelet as well? We talked. Who was I with that? We talked to him. It was amazing. But I was like, this is why you do it here. Also for these clients, that's a fun trip. If you don't live, you live in the Middle East. Like they, they've done it in Dubai as well. Right.
- [26:00]
Jacob Gallagher
Dubai was a though and then obviously the war kind of, I think did really. He spoke a little bit about this. I think that they were really pushing in that direction and the war kind of made them back up a little bit. And I think America, as is the case with a lot of luxury brands right now, America looks relatively more, let's say risk free. But they're not risk entirely free. But I think it's a safer place to put your dollars right now.
- [26:27]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I agree. I mean, obviously that's the way to go. And we've seen this whole sort of resort. Resort journey. But yeah, I think also these kind of people want to want a destination and they want a reason to take a trip. And so if you're spending, you know, a lot of these clients are probably, probably spending a million dollars in that thing. Or at least 500.
- [26:56]
Jacob Gallagher
I'm sure there are clients that are in the, in the seven figures. I would imagine probably a lot of six figure clients.
- [27:01]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Yeah. So it's worth it. You, you take a little trip. A lot of times the brands, I don't know how Zenya manages this, but a lot of times the brands pay to fly these clients out, especially if they are in the seven figure. And so, yeah, it made a lot of sense to me. I thought that the Malibu pier was great. I got to Belle and Sebastian with plenty of time. It was easy to get there. Did you enjoy my driving on the way to Malibu? Were you afraid for your life?
- [27:34]
Jacob Gallagher
You can drive a car.
- [27:37]
Lauren Sherman
I thought you got scared there for a couple minutes.
- [27:40]
Jacob Gallagher
No.
- [27:41]
Lauren Sherman
Okay.
- [27:42]
Jacob Gallagher
If I can comment though, on the clothes themselves, which often get lost in these, these conversations. You know, I think Alessandro Sartori is. I always think of him as kind of a designer where the pandemic actually aided his design language quite a lot. I think he was moving toward this, this. I mean, obviously Zegna Italian tailoring has always been about softer suiting and what have you. I think during the pandemic, he was one of those designers that really figured out how to get that alchemy of relaxed and easy feeling with something that looked a little proper, but not too proper. And it feels like the pandemic was when the boxy suiting, the super wide, kind of very spongy trousers, like these, these kind of very tranquil color schemes that he's had that design language really since that period in particular. I remember there was a time when he kind of came back to Xenia where everyone was like, his color sense and his color sense and they were really hitting on how good he was with color. I haven't necessarily felt that at Zegna in the past few years where I've been like, wow, these saturated colors, this is really like amazing. They're there, but they don't feel like they're the center stage anymore. I would say with this show, it felt like being taken out of Italy. And them kind of in particular, I thought the colors, these kind of seafoam greens, these kind of, I would say, like beach umbrella stripes that had a lot of saturation to them and almost pre sun fading. They looked really nice and pleasing to me. And I. I'm very hungry for a little bit more color and softer color and kind of, I guess what you would call elegant color to come back in menswear. I think menswear is in even more than women's has Kind of been spinning its wheels in the quiet luxury, you know, tan tasteful zone. And I. You could definitely see that in the clients that were there and in the audience. So much tan, so much brown, so much sand color. But I think, you know, I'm. I'm going to be looking and maybe this can take us into the next topic here. Like, you know, men's is coming up. I'm going to be looking for where that kind of color and pattern comes in. Men's has been so pattern averse post pandemic. And I think it's been seen as such a thing that, like, is hard to sell and maybe is not worth the risk. And I'm wondering, like, where. Okay, are we ready for it again? Like, where is this going to come from?
- [29:59]
Lauren Sherman
But yeah, yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that I liked about the villa was that they had all these. Zhenya had some magazine called Top from like the mid-60s right up until 1980. And so they reproduced a bunch of them and they had them sort of as like mood boards. And you could see a lot of the colors from that era were in his collection. My big takeaway from it. And maybe you could speak to. Maybe this is just a menswear thing, but the entire operation is driven by material. So it's like it doesn't matter what you're doing, whether you're framing it with color or silhouette or what have you, it's all about those materials. And Jilda was very proud of the Vicuna Room with all the different suiting and pants made and shirts made from Vicuna, which is a very fancy material. But that was a big thing and that and sort of the, like quality of the material, allowing that company in particular to move further up market, which it's done in the last, I don't know, 10 years, which is. It's kind of amazing. Like, you. Don't you. When you think of businesses trying to move up market, it's pretty impossible to do that once you're established in a certain way. And. And they have. I don't know if you think their ability to do that says something about the bigger menswear market.
- [31:25]
Jacob Gallagher
Well, I just think men in particular, they tend to often shop by touch and by hand feel. And I think that that is where, you know, the conversation often is less about, like, where something made is made than what it's made from. And, you know, you can definitely see that when you go to these boutiques that, you know are across LA that, you know, I was visiting stores and there is this kind of thing where the color palette in men's again is. So it feels very limited right now. And I think that retailers are almost fine with that because it's not. Men don't. They're not looking for the color right now. They're looking for the texture. They're looking for the hand. They're trying to grab the garment and say, hey, this feels nice. And I think with Zenya, you know, you have those. You mentioned vicuna. You know, Jilleda was talking about this fabric they developed that is even finer than vicuna and even more expensive. And, you know, he's telling me about $2,000 T shirts and that people do buy them. And I have not seen that with my own eyes. But I do believe that when he says that, I think to go back to that, I guess as much as I hate talking, referencing it now, it's like that quiet luxury conversation. It's like the money's got to go somewhere with these rich guys. It's like they're gonna spend and they're going to put their money on something and it's not going to be a loud garment. It's going to be something that feels so nice that, you know, it's incomparable and what have you do. I think that that's 100%, you know, real or how much of that is placebo? I'm sure it is super fine, but how much you feel that difference on your skin, I don't really know.
- [32:52]
Lauren Sherman
But yeah, yeah. So good, so good, so good.
- [33:00]
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- [33:55]
Lauren Sherman
So, moving into Men's fashion month, Zenyan barely show. They only show on the Milan schedule every other season. Now what are you excited about in Milan? There's no more London. You're not going to pitti what in Milan Are you. Are you looking forward to. And what do you think about the fact that there's like, I think I'm only going to three shows the whole time. I'm leaving early. So sadly, I'm gonna miss Thom Browne and Armani. But what do you think is going on there, and what do you think they should do?
- [34:29]
Jacob Gallagher
Well, as I asked Gilda, I said, how mad is the camera moda at you for. For taking Zenya away from the calendar because there are so few men's shows there to begin with. And his. His answer was, well, I took Zenya away and I gave them Tom Brown, which is, you know, now part of Zenya Group. So that show now feels. Do I think that Milan is the most natural place for Tom Brown to be? Maybe not, but I guess we will see. That is definitely a different expression of tailoring than I think a lot of the. His peers will be, but maybe that will benefit him. I've always felt that as Milan's calendar has shrunken to the point that you could drive a truck through the gaps in it, it could be a place where you could get a lot more attention. You know, this has always kind of been the concept around Pitti Uomo. It falls before everything you get. A lot of people aren't rushing from your show to the next show. They're there. They see it, what have you. Now, Pitti Uomo, I think, needs to figure out who they, you know, recruit to show during their seasons, because it definitely is not. I have spoken to a lot of people that just don't go anymore, much like me, because the draws are not big enough. It's not that I would never go back to Biddy Uomo, but until there's someone big, I'm not going back. As much as I do really like Simone Rocha. I look forward to seeing that show online in Milan, though, I think, you know, again, we're talking about a reinvigorated Ralph Lauren, which, you know, I think that that was a narrative that existed first and then got backed up in particular on the women's side. You know, I think I. We have talked about it. I found the polo presentation in Paris during women's last season to be one of the strongest things from that season. And I guess we'll see kind of what comes. Clearly, the Runway model worked for Ralph. They hadn't shown on the Runway for a long time until last season. They're going back there. It clearly paid off for them. I'll be curious about that one. I will say we, as the New York Times. We are now invited back to Dolce and Gabbana. I will be going to my show since I joined the New York Times. So that is a new CEO and a new, I would say, era of letting us back in.
- [36:37]
Lauren Sherman
That's amazing. Good on, on Stefano Cantino.
- [36:42]
Jacob Gallagher
Yeah, I, I will no longer have my languid afternoon lunch. I will have to go to Dolce and Gabbana, which I'm very much looking forward to, of course, you know, but. And then of course Prada. You know, I mean, I think, you know, I would say that there's those anchors. There's, there's, there's Armani and Prada and you know, Zhenya was there. They're not any. And you know, that's kind of men's in Ralph now. But, you know, everything does tilt toward Paris. That first full day in Paris is really full on. It's Saint Laurent, it's Orly, and it's Louis Vuitton. That's a pretty hefty day right there. You know, I would say men's is going to be funny. There's no Hermes this season because we are still waiting, awaiting the Grace Wales Bonner first show for them. I think that, you know, Celine definitely feels like the big one that people are circling. Michael Ryder doing his first Men show in full. Yeah, that's, that's probably, I think the, the, the top line highlights. Um, you know, there are no big debuts this season. It doesn't feel like there are no built in narratives. I think it's just going to be, it's going to be what we see.
- [37:50]
Lauren Sherman
Now that you've done quite a few women's fashion weeks, what is the big difference between men's and women's? I, I have from my perspective, but the difference is like, I don't. When I go to men's, I only go to a couple shows. I'm mostly just doing meetings, whereas a women's, I go to way more shows. So I have like a lot of opinions about just the personalities. But like, you have really been in the trenches of going to tons of shows for both women's and men's. What would you say is like the biggest difference?
- [38:21]
Jacob Gallagher
Scale. Scale for sure is the biggest difference. I mean, I think, you know, there's. I, I think you want me to say temperament. I, you know, there is some truth to that. I would say the, the, the vibes are different.
- [38:33]
Lauren Sherman
The, the, the vibes are different.
- [38:35]
Jacob Gallagher
The.
- [38:35]
Lauren Sherman
It's chiller.
- [38:36]
Jacob Gallagher
The moisture in the air. The, the heaviness of Of. Of. Of the. That those rooms, I think, feels very different. But men's is also, again, to scale. Men's is so small. You can get your. Your hands around it. I think women's is. Is quite large. And, you know, men's, we all tend to know each other. It does have that feeling of, oh, you again. Like we. We all just kind of, you know, do. Everyone sees a face and knows that face and chats to each other and what have you. You know, women's is so large that I think it just operates at a. At a much different scale. And I think that that is also reflected in how these brands construct their shows. And they certainly, you know, spend more capital on the women's shows. They fill the rooms bigger, they get more celebrities. They put a little bit more into the production itself. That is not, I want to say, like, you know, Vuitton. Certainly their men's shows, I think, tend to be bigger, in my opinion, than the women's shows. I mean, I've. I think that that's kind of a reflection of. Of Pharrell and that's a unique animal. But, you know, I think with like, something like Dior, they probably feel comparable in a way. I mean, definitely bigger on the women's side in terms of guest list. But yeah, definitely I'd be wrong to say that Dior feels small in any capacity on meds. It feels very big.
- [39:52]
Lauren Sherman
No. And I think even pre Jonathan that the Kim Jones shows, I only went to a couple, but, like, were just as important as the Maria Grazia shows and in some ways more important fashion wise. And it's been interesting with Jonathan to see the. I think the men's started out really strong with Dior and now I'm a little more confused by it. Whereas the women's was harder to digest at first and now is like, I'm really getting it and think he's really hit his stride there. So it'll be interesting to see because last men's season, it was like a totally new proposal. Yes. And like heady style, new proposal each season. But, like, it was hard to see the through line. Let's see what he does with it here.
- [40:38]
Jacob Gallagher
Here's one thing I'll offer about the distinction between them is that I think at men's you can be a relatively. A comparatively small brand and everyone wants to be there. Everyone feels a lot of excitement around it and it feels like it can set a tone as a smaller brand. Like, I'm thinking, you know, I'm going to go back to it, like, orally is a show that, like, everyone goes to. It's, you know, certainly not at any LVMH caring scale. But, you know, it definitely feels like you go to that and you're like, you're. You're gleaning intel about where men's fashion is in that moment from who's there, from what's on the Runway, what have you. I don't know if I feel that as much at women's. I feel like there are some great smaller shows, but they feel very much doing something different, you know, giving you data about a clique within fashion as opposed to being central to the conversation.
- [41:27]
Lauren Sherman
Well, the other thing is, like, Orly and La Mer are both men's and women's shows together. Correct. So that is the where who was. I listen. Oh, I was listening to Emily Oberg and Morgan Stewart on Morgan's podcast this morning because Emily made a hilarious comment about Hermes that I am including in my Hermes piece, which I'm sure everyone's involved is going to be happy about. But she mentioned, and Emily is a very, like, classic consumer. Like, if you're like, what brands do you like? She's like, Chanel and Hermes. But she mentioned or Lee. And that's what I think. I think you're right that what's interesting about menswear versus women's wear right now, other than the Chanel conversation, is that just the sort of. Of fashion enthusiast stuff. A lot of the brands are menswear first.
- [42:16]
Jacob Gallagher
Yes.
- [42:16]
Lauren Sherman
And they're not. Or Liah is an example of one that isn't. But, like, generally, I'd say most of the brands that I wear in my closet that I'm not buying vintage are started as men's. Men's brands. And it's not. It is a certain flavor profile, but it's definitely what's driving the conversation. And I think that's because there's just more room to play and breathe and less pressure in some ways. I don't know.
- [42:45]
Jacob Gallagher
I think that's right. And I think, again, it is just that level to kind of punch outside their weight class, so to speak. Like, you know, you have these huge swings within men's of, you know, everyone's at Orly, and then everyone's got to go to Vuitton. And those two could not be more different in a lot of ways. But, you know, that definitely does speak to, I think that, I guess, openness. And again, that I know maybe enthusiast, as you said, is probably actually the perfect word where there is this kind of enthusiast strain that still does run through men's. That allows for those things to cut through.
- [43:23]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Well, Jacob, this last week was very fun. I'm excited to see you during the men's shows and get your takes. Are you staying for couture?
- [43:33]
Jacob Gallagher
No, I'm staying for a vacation with my family.
- [43:35]
Lauren Sherman
That's the right way to do it. Well, it was great to have you back. We'll have you again soon.
- [43:39]
Jacob Gallagher
Thanks for having me. It was good to see you. Thanks for the ride to Xenia this week.
- [43:43]
Lauren Sherman
It was great. We'll talk soon.
- [43:45]
Jacob Gallagher
I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thanks, Lauren.
- [43:48]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly. Exactly. Executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett and director of editorial operations Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.
- [44:12]
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