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- [00:00]
A
Foreign hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Derek Blasberg, author of Fast and Louche. We're talking about fashion in the era of indie sleaze, the couture shows, what people are wearing on the streets in Europe and New York, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week. I was just in Copenhagen for a couple of days on vacation, and now I'm going for a week to the mountains of Austria. I love Copenhagen. I would like to come back for a couple days for work meetings, but this trip was all about the Louisiana Museum. And then I went to Tivoli yesterday with my kid. It was very fun. I did find a workout brand here called Exercair. I think it was founded in 2021 by two women who look like they're probably influencers of some sort. It looked really cute. And then I went in and there first of all, the logo is bad, but also there were tops that had the logo on both sides. I'm just gonna buy when I get back to LA next week, I'm just buying aloe yoga and hanging it up. Also, Live the Process. Robin Berkley, Shout Out I am going to get some Live the Process, but I want to try it on. Like, this is the issue. I didn't have a time in New York to go to the Live the Process studio. So maybe if, you know, Robin, if there's somewhere in New York, in LA where I can try it on. Anyway, Exerc was not not the answer and I'm on a shopping fast right now where I can only buy vintage and workout clothes. And it didn't help. But anyway, this week in Line Sheet, I have a different sort of succession story than the one we usually tell. It's about Tadashi Yanai and Uniqlo and what could happen now that Yanai is close to 80. It's an interesting one. When I was reporting this out, I learned a bunch of stuff about kind of how they operate, who's important, who's not, and also the businesses that are important. J.W. anderson Collaboration is a big business for them. I think it would be bigger if they didn't limit it so much. But I was in the airport on this trip in Europe and man, there are a lot of JWA jeans everywhere. Husband's a big fan of it. Anyway, Malik and Rachel are also back with great stuff and I have a little Harper's Bazaar scoop Malik and Rachel will be managing everything when I am out, so please ping them. I know y' all love it when Derek comes on, so please enjoy. Derek Blasberg. Welcome back to Fashion People.
- [02:45]
B
Lauren Sherman. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
- [02:48]
A
Are you in the land of Round Swamp Farm?
- [02:52]
B
Lauren, can I ask, do I have your undivided attention? As you know, this isn't my first time on the podcast, and the last time I was here, I caught you texting and checking your email. I need to know before we go any further, but you are as committed to this podcast as I am?
- [03:09]
A
I'm fully committed. I probably will still be.
- [03:11]
B
Show me your hands. Show me your hands. But other. Where's the other one? Other hand, please. Thank you. There we go. Okay. All right.
- [03:17]
A
I might still be texting, though. I might still be texting.
- [03:20]
B
I remember when Mel Ottenberg was on. I remember when Mel Ottenberg was on. That's when the Debna Gucci announcement was made. So I will only indulge you. For breaking news.
- [03:32]
A
Could we only be so lucky?
- [03:35]
B
Only indulge you? Not lunch orders. Not where are you, Paris? Not dinner orders, not cheese orders, Derek.
- [03:41]
A
But. But back to where are you in the land of Round Swamp Farm.
- [03:45]
B
I am in the land of Rounds Fun Farm.
- [03:48]
A
You know, that is the. The mo. The primary time in the last few years I've been influenced was when your husband was on this podcast to mention Round Swap Farm. And I ordered the granola, and I'm not a granola person, and it's really good, Lauren.
- [04:04]
B
I'm so happy that I joined Fashion people today, the week after the couture shows, to talk about my book and my substack and all the projects we have going on. And you bring up Round Swamp's granola. Thank you so much.
- [04:17]
A
Let's discuss your book, Derek. Could we really call it a book?
- [04:22]
B
You can call it whatever you want.
- [04:25]
A
So tell me about the concept behind these pieces of paper.
- [04:30]
B
What you, I assume, are suggesting is that the book is not exactly the Great Gatsby or the all American novel of our generation. Is that what you were alluding to?
- [04:43]
A
Well, it's funny. Cause I was talking to one of your friends this week, and we were saying they were like, when is Derek gonna write that?
- [04:49]
B
I think I'm a little too young for that, don't you?
- [04:51]
A
You need. I think you should start writing full books.
- [04:55]
B
We'll see. This book, by the way, came together in a. To your point, this book was supposed to be A light, fun project that sort of celebrated these columns I had in Interview magazine. And I've been sort of shocked, or I've been pleasantly surprised is probably a better way to put it. By the response by. By basically everyone except for you, by the sound of it. Because people. How.
- [05:24]
A
How did the Ha Long Gong guys find it? I still haven't listened.
- [05:28]
B
You are. Wow, the most supportive fashion industry insider I know. I think they were. I think. I think they were happy. I think the point I'm trying to make is that there are so many people that we know of our generations and generations before who have such nostalgic and strong connections to this blip in pop culture that was post tech, post digital revolution, when we all had our smartphones, our smarter phones, blueberries, Blackberries. Not blueberries. You still got me in round swamp on the brain. Blackberries and triophones. But just before social media, of course, changed the way that we documented our lives and the way that we had fun. So I actually thought the book was going to be sort of a fun little keepsake I'd send to my friends. But the response has been a pleasant surprise that so many people are nostalgic for that era. And I don't know if it's in the zeitgeist right now, but I'm sure you saw Madonna, did all these gay concerts this weekend. Jay Z was at Yankee Stadium with Rihanna and Beyonce. There's definitely something in the air about a different moment in pop culture.
- [06:43]
A
Why don't we back up a bit and explain what the column was and how the idea for the book came together. You published it with Sarah Andelman, whose post Colette Life is this firm called Just An Idea, where she publishes books and she works on projects. But tell us about the Interview magazine column, what the sort of concept was and why it felt like. Cause I think you're totally right. It's like 15 years ago, and now we're all sort of. It was a different life for many of us. So it feels. Feels like a very reflective time. But what was sort of the concept for the column and then how it came together as a book?
- [07:24]
B
So I got to New York after I graduated high school in 2000, and I was so ambitious and extroverted and just around. I was, I guess you could say ubiquitous, omnipresent. Some may say annoying, some may say impossible to get rid of. But there I was. And I. And I. I really was doing so many things at that time. I was at V magazine. I was still doing style.com, which I think is when we first met. And Christopher Bolan, who is a novelist, was the editor at large of Interview magazine at the time. I had met him when he was at V magazine, and he commissioned me to work on this for the lack of a better word, party page idea they had. Interview magazine was, of course, founded by Andy Warhol. And going out and taking pictures and serializing or creating diaries out of the mundane. You know, I love reading Andy's diaries when he, like, puts the. How much he pays for a taxi every night and so fast. And Loosh was the name of the column. Stephen Wallam, who's the editor at Harper's Bazaar right now, was the editor in chief of Interview at the time. And we just did a Q and A for Harper's Bazaar. And he remembers how the idea came to pass. And then for the next three years, I had two or three pages in every issue, and I could put anything in there I wanted. I did a lot of fashion show coverage, a lot of art openings. This was before, or maybe this was like the early days of the destination resort show. So there was a couple of those in there.
- [09:01]
A
I did a lot of Chanel in Texas.
- [09:03]
B
Maybe it was Chanel in Saint Tropez. I think Chanel in Texas was, a
- [09:07]
A
couple years later was Chanel and Santrope, the one where there was like, a plane ride thing that happened.
- [09:15]
B
Chanel was in a couple planes. I don't need to tell you how. Well, Chanel's bottom line is I think Chanel had planes to Dallas. I think Chanel had planes to Cuba. I don't know if they had Chanel Plains to Saint Tropez. That was the one that Karl Lagerfeld's bodyguard turned house model Sebastian, came out at the end in a motorcycle with Georgia Mae Jagger sitting on his lap. Do you remember that?
- [09:41]
A
I wasn't there, but I remember it anyway.
- [09:44]
B
And then Sarah Andelman, who you mentioned, is a friend of mine, of course. Her mother was the founder of the original Parisian concept store Colette, which is now a YSL store, the one with sushi park in the basement. And she remembered the column and she said, do you still have those pictures? Do you sell those images? And I said, yes, I'm a hoarder. Both of magazines and a digital hoarder. And so I went into some, you know, into my storage. I got the hard drive and I found all these images. I sent them all to her, and she. And I whipped out this book. Easy peasy.
- [10:22]
A
What I will say, I was teasing you before But I think this kind of stuff, the one question I had was, how did you get permission to use it? Did you. Because this is a question. A lot of freelance writers, because you've been like, people don't think of you this way, but you really are, at your heart, a freelance writer. And when you do contracts with companies, who owns the rights to your articles is complicated. Did you have to go to the people who own Interview now and negotiate that? Like, how did you get the rights to use the columns and the photos and things?
- [10:56]
B
The first people we spoke to were the folks at Interview. Mel Lautenberg, of course, friend of the pod.
- [11:03]
A
Friend of the pod. For real.
- [11:06]
B
He was super enthusiastic. And Chris Bolen, who I mentioned was my editor at the time of Interview, wrote the foreword to the book. And the images were all mine, so I still owned all of them. So we didn't have any problems there.
- [11:22]
A
That's a lesson, though, for writers that if you do something like this, if you're doing a column, especially if you have a consistent thing, make sure you understand who owns what, because this is a great example of. This is a snapshot of your life. It's a snapshot of culture at the time. It's a snapshot of New York, and it's also connected to Interview. But, you know, if Mel wasn't nice or you didn't own those images, it could have been a pain in the butt.
- [11:53]
B
It's funny that you say that, only because in 2009, which was 17 years ago at this point, I never thought there would be a book in the timeline. I never thought these image. I never identified as a photographer. You know, it was in my head. More reporting. But I'm, of course, so. I'm so proud of the era. You know, I'm so proud that I. In 2009, I was, you know, in my late. I was. I was 27. I was in my mid-20s. I was out there hustling. It means a lot to me that Something I did 17 years ago is still worth publishing now and worth talking about. So it's. Yes, we should all be mindful of what we're doing now and what the future will look back on it.
- [12:38]
A
Well, I think that your output, when you do write your memoir and you. You really give it to everybody, because I know you're gonna do that.
- [12:46]
B
What will I say about you, Lauren Sherman?
- [12:48]
A
I don't want to know. Do not want to know. But I think that people, your output is pretty remarkable. Oh, wow. Thank you. You never really stopped. And you also, you really are connected to anyone who doesn't already subscribe to Derek's substack should. And it's fashion, art, society, culture, entertainment, industry. Like you kind of touch on everything and you are in the right rooms, but you also are able to like actually get people to talk to you. And it was meaningful to me to read through it. And yeah, I think we met when you were@style.com and I was at Fashionista. But I think it was nice to look back and see that world through your eyes again. Was there anything about the way the fashion industry has changed just looking at those images and the people you were photographing and what you were wearing that you thought about while you were putting it together?
- [13:49]
B
The funny thing, I mean, there was a couple things. The first thing I couldn't believe was that I used to travel around with a camera with a whole other device. One that you had to remember to charge. Remember when you would about to take a picture, maybe the flash wasn't ready. So then you had like wait. And so the people you're taking a picture of are just sort of standing there and you hear that sound like as it charges. Then after you got home, of course you would have to take out the memory card. This was before computers had the built in memory card reader. So you'd have a whole other thing. I'm so impressed with how streamlined our life and our technological existence has become. I mean, I don't even carry a wallet out anymore. My credit cards on my phone. So I was impressed that I was sort of shocked that we had the bandwidth to put a whole other device. The other thing was how few people were taking pictures at that time. Of course there were photographers and of course there were people doing that as a living. But now at the end of a fashion show, every single person has their phones out taking a picture backstage. Every single person is getting a picture with the top model or their favorite bag or trying to create content. The other thing is that out of Those, you know, two and a half, three years from 2009 to 2012, this column existed. I think I pulled 400 images in total. Now I have 400 images from the Diorshore that took place on Monday of last week. You know, like we document so much more and it counts so much less, which is a realization I made in this process.
- [15:30]
A
Yeah, that's profound, Eric.
- [15:32]
B
Oh wow.
- [15:33]
A
It really is. Hey there, it's Jill Schlesinger. I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves and your money is going to move. We're going to help you make better financial decisions. We're going to call out the B.S. you're finding all over social media. We're going to give you actionable guidance to make your financial life clean, clearer, less stressful. We're going to answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of your financial life. Follow and listen to Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of, profundity isn't the right word though, right?
- [16:15]
B
Well, it's a vocab lesson. We're on fire today.
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A
Profundity is not does not mean profoundness.
- [16:21]
B
No.
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A
No, it doesn't. I don't know. What did you think of the shows last week? I thought that they were much more meaningful than Were you just texting?
- [16:30]
B
I was actually googling what the textbook section of profundity is a deep intellectual insight, wisdom or the state of being felt very intensely then.
- [16:40]
A
That is what I meant. On the subject of profundity, what did you I felt like I haven't gone I've been to couture shows like on and off the last few seasons. I've gone to more show. I felt like this season usually I see it as something that's like kind of separate from the rest of the industry and it's very specific. It sometimes is a good marketing tool, but it's a very specific client and they're pretty and you kind of just like let them be an island. But this season I felt like this sort of story that couture told told the story of the industry really clearly. And I'm curious from your perspective, like, what did you think of the show's did you feel like there was more going on this season behind the scenes than there typically is?
- [17:26]
B
Oh, that's interesting. I never thought of couture as an island. I definitely think to your point, there's a disconnect from a couture Runway and what brands put in stores. But I've always thought of couture more as a laboratory where these designers get to experiment and cook up the ideas. I definitely feel to the point you just made that the shows we saw last week were much more reflective of of the designers. Obviously Jonathan did so many incredibly incredible dresses inspired by the work of this artist he's obsessed with. Pierre Paolo was able to experiment so much more with what we consider, I think, more Pier Paoloian aesthetics. The bright colors, the dramatic dresses, feathers. Feathers, feathers. Obviously met you is on a roll. So I definitely felt a connection to the designers and what they're doing did you see? I went to Rome for Fendi. Did you go?
- [18:27]
A
I didn't go, but I. But I did look at it online today really closely.
- [18:33]
B
That was definitely, I think, a Maria Grazian collection.
- [18:38]
A
Yeah, you're right. That I feel like they all did. They tried. They all tried very hard to do what they wanted to do. And Jonathan, I feel like, is doing so many collections and has so much work at this. At this brand that he's rebuilding. And he. That collection, to me, it just felt like he was like, this is what I want to experiment with and investigate in this house. And then Pierre Paolo was like, I'm not gonna try to be cool. I'm just gonna make beautiful dresses and use these amazing archives as inspiration. And I thought that was very clear. And then there's someone like Duran Lantic, which I thought was beyond. I loved it so much.
- [19:31]
B
That was an incredible show. And let's not forget Daniel Roseberry, who was also doing the best version of himself.
- [19:38]
A
Yeah, yeah. I thought that they were overall really strong from a. Is the designer confident in what they're doing?
- [19:47]
B
I love seeing Gaultier at those shows. Of course, before Drawn took a full time gig, there were these one off collaborations. And I was told that Jean Paul Gaultier did not go and see the collections before the Runway. He saw them the same time everyone else did. I wonder if that's still the situation now.
- [20:07]
A
Yeah, I don't know. I wonder. I saw him backstage afterwards, but yeah, I mean, if I were him, I wouldn't go beforehand.
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B
Because you think it would put pressure on the designer or. Because.
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A
Yeah, and I think, like, he clearly wants to not really be involved. It's kind of like, I wonder if Dries goes. I doubt it. Oh, Dries has been to most of Julian's shows, but maybe Dries goes in because he still kind of works there. Think on the fragrance stuff.
- [20:40]
B
You know, it's interesting when we see other designers who have sold their name or exited their own brands. It was nice that Tom Ford went to Heider's first show for sure. I remember Calvin Klein and now I'm sure how old I am. Calvin Klein went to Francisco Costa's first Calvin Klein show, but refused to sit. He wanted to, like, watch from backstage so he could run out afterwards before a reporter asked him any questions about it. So I guess there is a blueprint for what you're supposed to do when you hand off the reins.
- [21:11]
A
Yeah, and it's just so rare that that happens these days. Like, there's either the transition is like Very long. Like the Mucha Raph, their creative partners for eternity, essentially. Or it's like the Carl Lagerfeld thing where it's just like you go until you go. Or. Or it's. Someone doesn't. It's not their house so they don't get to stick around if, if they are no longer wanted. But yeah, there's just. I. I'm sure Valentino was at a lot of those early Maria Grazia Piera Paolo shows.
- [21:49]
B
He was. And John. John Carlo Giametti was sitting near me at first. Fendi, of course, he knows Maria Grazia. Maria Grazia and Pierpolo, when they were still a design duo, worked for a long time under Valentino and the accessories. So there's definitely a long standing relationship with those guys. It was nice to see him there. It's nice to think of the Italian fashion community as a sort of tribe.
- [22:11]
A
Yeah. It's funny, on the Fendi piece, I have to say, the videos of it, I was like, look, I don't really judge Maria Grazia's clothes because I know there's a person who really likes them and I think they're beautifully made. And I am like, go her. I'm a very big fan of her as a person and the way she conducts herself. But on the video I was like, eh, this looks kind of bleh. But then I looked on Vogue Runway at the images and I was like, this is beautiful.
- [22:43]
B
Can I be very specific? Are you talking about the video that Fendi put on their own socials or are you talking about weird handheld?
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A
I don't have social media, Derek, but you.
- [22:52]
B
But as a well respected and renowned fashion critic, you use weird handheld iPhone videos to deduce.
- [23:01]
A
Honestly, that's more interesting. Sometimes I think I look a lot at which shows look good when you take photos of them or the editor of Vogue Arabia takes photos of them. Like when I take my own photos, like what shows can my terrible photos look decent versus looking kind of bad? Like, I think that is interesting. Dior is a great example of. I think that their shows look really, really good. When you're in the room and you're taking photos on your iPhone, the photos are amazing. I think when you look at those collections on Vogue Runway, you can't see the dynamic, like the movement and how dynamic they are. So the first Dior show, I wasn't there and I was like, this is kind of leaves me a little feeling a little flat. And then the more the ones that I've seen in person, I think they are more dynamic. And I think the images from the sidelines are better.
- [24:05]
B
Do you ever do recipes?
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A
Sometimes. Very rarely. I do them. I love to do them for Prada.
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B
Right.
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A
And I've done them for. I did them for the Metier d' Artagnan Chanel show and be. Yeah. And sometimes I do. If I am invited, I will do the preview with like a group interview with people. So I do those. I would say like a few a season. I don't. I wouldn't always do that, but the bigger designers who I write about constantly, it's. I feel like it's important, but. But yeah, I thought that the Maria, the. The recent Fendi couture, I mean, I thought it looked beautiful. Better than the sideline images gave it credit for. But I'm curious what it was like in person.
- [24:53]
B
Dior sort of raised the bar on the re see this year. They did Prada does this too. They do like installation style re sees. And I wonder if that becomes more prevalent with brands, especially during couture when you're looking at six figure dresses. They did an installation with some of the dresses from the show next to the works of art that inspired them. And I thought that was an interesting take.
- [25:21]
A
I thought I went to the pre interview for Dior with the pre group interview and so essentially saw the risi and it was really helpful.
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B
That's a preci.
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A
Thing.
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B
Ooh. Maybe we just a preci. Maybe we're inventing a whole new thing.
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A
But I think that you're right that it can make a huge. It doesn't always make a huge difference, but it can make. It just makes you see these things. I'm sure you remember the book Ways of Seeing makes you see these things in different ways. But how was. Did you have fun in Rome? Did you go to the pajama store? Like, what did you do?
- [25:59]
B
I love Rome. I had a great time. We went up here at Luigi for dinner, which was delicious. And Paris was so much fun.
- [26:08]
A
How did you feel about your talk that you did at the bookshop in the seventh? It seemed like a lot of interesting people came out. I saw my friend Lauren Collins came out to see you, who I believe is your friend.
- [26:21]
B
Also shout out Lauren Collins. She was on the podcast. She did an incredible deep dive New Yorker story on Uniqlo and she came to you to talk about it. She's great.
- [26:30]
A
Yeah, she's amazing.
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B
I'll be honest about that talk. To our earlier point, Sarah Andelman, the publisher of the book, was really pushing to do a Q and A. And I was reluctant. I thought it was self indulgent. I know how Many Q&As we both get invited to. And sometimes you're like, I just want to pop in, give a hug, buy a book, and carry on to the next. And she really pushed for it. And so we did it. And Sarah Moonvest, who's a good friend of mine, the editor of W magazine, did the Q and A with me. And I found myself unexpectedly anxious and nervous. Much more anxious and nervous than I am. Funny I should talk to my therapist about that. I think it's because I prefer to have control. I would prefer to do the Q's, not the A's. And I was so nonchalant about the whole thing. And I really didn't think it would have a lot of people in the audience. Obviously I should have asked Sarah for the questions so I could have had really great answers. And there were questions that in hindsight, I would have answered differently. The place where we did it was behind the Seven Owl Bookshop, which still exists. The 7L Bookshop. It was a bookshop started by Karl Lagerfeld. He had his photo studio in the back. It's still there. Carl's this incredible library photo studio with thousands of books which he would always tell people he read. Every single one of which I always thought was amusing. For one thing, there's multiple copies of the books in there. So do you think he read them twice? Do you think that was a gift bag situation? It was great to see so many people there. Two people who came were Daphne Guinness and Amanda Harlick. And I have this incredible memory from 2011. There are some pictures in the book of the shoot. When I worked at V magazine, I became friendly with Carl and he used to call me Beau Derek, but spell it B, E, A, U. Which, you know, a little bit over here. And he would sometimes use me as. I am not a stylist. I've never been a stylist. But he did ask me to style a few things for him. We did a shoot, we did a portrait session with Delphine Arnault and Antoine Arnault, and I styled that. But the big shoot that I did with him was that it was for a Transformations issue in V magazine. And Daphne, who had, you know, this, she wore a lot of McQueen. She has this trademark skunk colored bouffant hairstyle transformed into Amanda, who is much more goth, much more dark. And I styled the shoot. And it was this incredible experience. And so it was a very surreal experience to be back in the studio where we did that shoot and have those women who were there. And it was also, you know, it was bittersweet because Carl wasn't there and a lot of the people in the book are no longer with Andre, Leo and Tali, who I met when I was an intern at Vogue in 2003. So the talk was nerve wracking, anxiety inducing, but ultimately sweet and emotionally fulfilling. How's that?
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A
I thought it was nice I showed up late. Not because I wouldn't have been there. I promise I would have. I worship Sarah Moonves even more than I worship you, Derek, and would show up to anything she asked me to show up to. But I had the 7pm Armani show, so I was. Judy called for me to be there. But I also noticed Daphne and Amanda speaking to you at the end. And yeah, I thought it was interesting. I, Tallulah Harlick, who has been on this podcast, worked with Michael Stewart from Standing Ground this season. I had never met Amanda before and she was there because Tallulah was so involved with the show. And yeah, it was just an interesting. I thought it was a really nice season of people getting to actually talk to people. And I met Paul Sinclair for the first time cause we were seated at some shows together. I had never met him and obviously he's a legend and I'm a big fan of his work and so it was cool to chat with him and he just seemed so familiar to me. So I just went up to him and it was him. And so I was very excited. And then we were around each other. But I thought it was a really nice season. What did you feel? What did you think about what people were wearing on the streets? Because it was quite hot. Everybody was talking about it, but it wasn't as hot as men's so they weren't complaining as badly. But did you notice anything about the street style? Because Molly, the, the writer, Molly Young, she has this book newsletter and she just published it today. And she also published a New York City trend report which is very funny and I'll read it to you after this because I'm curious if you agree. But what did you think about what people were wearing in Paris this season?
- [31:26]
B
The heat I actually despise. You know, and you get a lot of this at Fashion Week. I despise that cliche, small talk, traffic, weather, summer plans. But it was. All I could talk about was. I know was the heat. And it's. And of course at menswear it was even hotter and they Changed. Rick Owens changed the time of his show. Jonathan Anderson changed the time of the Dior show. So it's having a huge and meaningful impact in the way that we exist. And did you. On the plane home, I watched this documentary about AI and there was this great line in there that really landed with me. And it's like one of the AI researchers says everyone talks about how AI could one day solve the climate crisis. And she's like, well, let's do that first. Let's not do, let's not do our automated Starbucks orders. Like, let's start with that. Let's put that on the top of the list.
- [32:23]
A
Yeah, that's interesting.
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B
Which landed with me because it was so hot.
- [32:27]
A
Yeah. I mean, if it solves the climate crisis, then what? What's next? This is my issue. If, if something gets fixed, I'm always like, but the thing that's next is going to be worse. So do we really want to. I'm just kidding.
- [32:38]
B
There was a great line that Claire, the editor of French Vogue, told Chloe, the editor of American Vogue on their wrap up. I don't know if you listened to other podcasts, Lauren.
- [32:47]
A
Not really.
- [32:49]
B
I was not. I was not expecting you.
- [32:52]
A
I'm a big fan of Chloe. I like, I like. Claire is so funny.
- [32:55]
B
I adore Chloe. I adore Claire. And she had a good line. They said that Covid. Sorry. They said the hand fan was the COVID masks of. Used to go to a show or send a, you know, a logo mask. I still have because again, I'm a hoarder. I still have on my desk the Stella McCartney masks, the Louis Vuitton masks. And now every single show we went to in Paris had a hand fan on the seat.
- [33:20]
A
Yeah, I mean that you need this stuff for the ephemera for your retrospective after you write the book.
- [33:28]
B
I also wonder how the increase in temperatures will affect the actual clothes. Like will.
- [33:34]
A
Sure.
- [33:34]
B
Will suits be made of breathable fabrics? Are we going to start. Are we going to bring back Dickies instead of having to wear collared shirts? Will we just pop something beneath our suit?
- [33:44]
A
Or have you ever. Have you ever heard of Veronica Beard? They been doing Dickies for 10 years. Derek.
- [33:49]
B
I have heard of Veronica Beard, but I have not bought any of her Dickies. But thanks. Thanks for the market, the show, the tip.
- [34:01]
A
Okay, so I want to. Because I want to talk about what people were wearing at the shows though, because I think it's interesting. But first, let me just read to you Molly's, because it sounds like a poem Cargo shorts. Sage green athleisure separates. Black toenail polish. Conversations about being dehydrated. Socks with sandals. Pastel yellow cobalt blue. Tencel mini dresses. Tencel tank tops, Tencel everything. Bikini top instead of a shirt. Rafia basket bags. 1920 style lingerie is outerwear that. That's really happening in Paris, too. Jeans with the waist cut off, like Mariah in the Heartbreaker video. Flip flops. Sadly, Jorts Happily books. So there are some things that I've noticed the. I've been buying stuff from this store that anyone who's a real fashion person knows about in Milan called Vera Persiani. And they have really beautiful, like, satin slips and things. And it's kind of like if you're into the Saint Laurent lingerie look, they do really nice stuff. They'll make whatever you want. Like, I was like, I would like a cotton top and shorts. And they were like, sure, we may. We'll make it for you. And it's not that expensive. But I just wore one of my tops as, like, my top to wear in public because everyone is wearing these little, like, sets right now. And the socks with sandals thing is also very much a thing in Paris. But what did you notice? Was there anything in particular that you. Other than, like, very lightweight clothing that you noticed people were wearing?
- [35:31]
B
I definitely noticed some Jorts. I definitely noticed a lot of lingerie. I guess the spin on the lingerie topic is that before you would wear that to feel sexy, and now I think you wear that to not sweat your brains out.
- [35:44]
A
Exactly. Yes.
- [35:45]
B
I did notice a lot of black nail polish. Also, Lauren, I should. I should say thank you so much for reading that poem. That was such a special moment that you had recited a poem for me. I love a Mariah Carey reference. I love a Mariah Carey reference. So thank you for that. Molly, always bringing back glitter.
- [36:03]
A
I would like to have her. I should have her on the podcast. That would be funny.
- [36:07]
B
I did. And I did see a lot of sequins. I wonder if sequins are sort of our hat tip to dressing up when you can't do more than a tank top.
- [36:18]
A
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. One thing that is incredibly prevalent in Europe in particular, is Carhartt work. And I mentioned this on the podcast before. Carhartt work in progress. Jeans or trousers or chinos or pants or whatever. And then also Salomon shoes. Like, the amount of Salomon sneakers I've seen in the last four months and including on. I was leaving Paris on Saturday and having lunch At Mocochaya, and there were people from LA and they all had them on. I was like, this company, it is, I believe, part of a public company, and we can find out the. The actual numbers, but it must just be, like, popping off like crazy, because it feels like almost all the people who wear on running shoes are now buying Salomon's. Also. It's not just sort of mensweary gorp core guys. It's crazy how many people have these sneakers. Do you own a pair?
- [37:18]
B
I do not own a pair. I also don't own a pair of on running.
- [37:21]
A
Me neither.
- [37:22]
B
I'm a Nike and Vans kind of guy.
- [37:25]
A
Yeah, I'm Nike, Keds, Converse, and New Balance. We're a New Balance family. Yeah. I wear Keds a lot because it's, like, comfortable. They kind of look like ballet shoes. Slippers. They look good with Levi 501s. I have them in the slide and also in lace ups. I'm not Vans. I don't work on. On me. I've tried, and I just, like, don't look right.
- [37:50]
B
Do you have a flip policy?
- [37:52]
A
I don't do thong shoes. They don't work. I can't handle it. Like, it doesn't feel right on my foot.
- [37:59]
B
No thongs on your feet. Got it noted.
- [38:01]
A
No thongs on my feet, Derek.
- [38:05]
B
I wonder if the street style industry actually. I wonder what the state of street style is. I see that Phil O. Still does for. Is still shooting for Vogue.
- [38:13]
A
Yeah.
- [38:14]
B
I remember the golden age of street style photography when Tommy Ton did that for style dot com. Remember the sartorialist Garance Hanneli?
- [38:25]
A
Oh, my God. Haneli. We need a. You know who I thought of when I was looking through your book? Who was that beautiful woman? Her name starts with an S. Who was a big street style star, and she wore a lot of Prada.
- [38:41]
B
Charlaman Rook.
- [38:42]
A
Yes. What's going on with her? She just. She doesn't go to fashion shows.
- [38:47]
B
She's not in New York anymore. She's. She left. She left us.
- [38:52]
A
Oh, my God. She was the chicest.
- [38:55]
B
She still is very chic. I see her very sporadically now, but she was from St. Lucia, and she moved to St. Lucia, and that's where she is now.
- [39:05]
A
It brought up a memory, a core memory for me seeing her in your book.
- [39:09]
B
She was a real Tommy Todd muse. She was really. She is incredibly. We're talking like she's dead. She is still incredibly stylish, but no one wore Prada better than her in that era. For sure.
- [39:22]
A
No, I. It would be interesting for their. Again. I'm sure there's been a million books, but someone to sort of rethink that era and figure out how to do it. I'm sure that Scott Schuman will eventually write a memoir, you know.
- [39:40]
B
Yeah.
- [39:41]
A
But it would be interesting. I wonder what. Maybe we should map this out right now and it's your next.
- [39:49]
B
Maybe that's what it is. I just finished Villa Coco. Have you read Villa Coco?
- [39:53]
A
No. Oh, is that the same writer that did Less? No.
- [39:59]
B
You didn't read that?
- [40:01]
A
No. Is it good?
- [40:03]
B
Andrew Sean Greer is the name of the author. Yeah, it's great. It's about an American researcher who moves in with a bonkers Italian lady in a dilapidated villa who turns out to give a. I don't want. I don't. I don't. I don't know how to give it away without giving it away. But sometimes when I read those books, the protagonist is gay and he's. It's. He's doing a year abroad, I think. Oh, wow, I know this guy.
- [40:34]
A
I could have done this someday. Derek. So the. The final thing I wanted to chat with you about, speaking of street style, do you see this? It's not hilarious, but it is kind of hilarious. Video of these Zara pants that are sent to me.
- [40:51]
B
And I didn't look at it, but tell me, refresh my memory. Tell me what it was.
- [40:55]
A
I'll let you know. Because people are sending it to me constantly. It's a CNN piece. I did reach out to Zara for comment. They're probably like, please leave us alone. But basically there's this pair of flowy pants that they made that everyone's tripping over. And I said to my. One of my friends who is really obsessed with the story, who, who works in fashion and knows a lot about product and how it's made. I said, why do you think these pants, like, there's all these photos of these women with, like, scrapes and bruises because they tripped in, like, videos of them tripping in the pants. Why? What's wrong with these pants in particular? And. And he said they're probably a little too long and a little too wide. But I have a pair of, like, I don't know, stretchy yoga pants that I Are ribs. So I wear them as going out pants that if I wear them with a heel, I trip because they're like. I don't know, they're stretchy and flared. So they. If you. I can't. Can only wear them with flats. But the point being, I don't know why it's this particular pair. It's. It's like such an industrial design thing of. It's the. Because of the exact length and the exact width that they are making people trip. But it's so funny to me, like, are they going to recall them as if it was a car or. Or baby formula or something? It's just.
- [42:15]
B
So then do you believe this is accurate? Do you trust that?
- [42:19]
A
Yeah. I mean, here is.
- [42:21]
B
Our pants are.
- [42:22]
A
In fact, I do. I think that it's probably a case of if it happened. It probably happens with a lot of these kinds of pants. I don't personally wear these types of pants, which just to describe to the audience, they're like a very flowy, like silky fabric and they are probably pull on. It's just not. I wouldn't do that.
- [42:45]
B
They look like wool for tunny pants.
- [42:48]
A
Yeah, like, they're very pretty. Zara's, you know, doing really well right now, but I don't think it's inaccurate. I just think it's interesting that it's the. These specific pants have caused this because I'm sure these kinds of pants do this to people all the time. But it's like specific that it's like the exact length and width that is causing the trip ups. I find it fascinating.
- [43:11]
B
I never knew it was so hard for women to find a reliable pair of trousers. Remember what? Lululemon accidentally sent sheer leggings into stores? That was ara as causing dreaded bruises and scrapes on women. Bring back skirts. Bring back skirts. Everyone could walk on a skirt.
- [43:33]
A
Derek, this was fun.
- [43:35]
B
Always a pleasure, never a chore.
- [43:38]
A
Thank you for being here. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.