Alistair McKim (4:23)

Thank you, Lauren.

Lauren Sherman (4:24)

Your first time on Fashion People. I can't believe this. I write about you so much, you'd think I would have somehow bribed you.

Alistair McKim (4:33)

Yeah, you even learned how to spell my name properly, right?

Lauren Sherman (4:36)

Finally. What'd you have for breakfast this morning?

Alistair McKim (4:41)

Honestly, I was just thinking about that because I do listen to your podcast and I was like, she's gonna ask me what I had for breakfast. And I had nothing for breakfast except. Well, I actually didn't get up super early today for the first time this in the last 10 days in Paris, because I only had mew mews today at 2 o', clock, so I had a bit of a lie in. But I've just been honestly just having coffee. Coffee, coffee, coffee. Like as many cappuccinos as I can have before the first show because I don't get hungry in the morning when I'm. When I'm in Europe after traveling from New York.

Lauren Sherman (5:13)

Yeah. And you eat so late. Didn't you eat dinner at Caviar Caspia last night? I think I saw that on your Instagram.

Alistair McKim (5:19)

I did, yeah.

Lauren Sherman (5:20)

How was it? It.

Alistair McKim (5:22)

And then I felt like swollen from sodium, you know. It was delicious. I mean, it's bit. We basically had cheese on toast with caviar and then we had the jacket potato with caviar. So it's almost like Irishman in Paris vibes of, like, just putting caviar on, like, Irish food. So I'm into it. True. Actually, yeah.

Lauren Sherman (5:46)

Yeah. I also do not. I don't really eat breakfast a lot anyway, but here especially because I do eat so late. So tonight I had a. As I was telling you at a very early Japanese dinner at 6:45 with my family. And so maybe I'll eat a little breakfast tomorrow. I'm having breakfast at Le Bristol with. With one of our. I think one of our shared acquaintances.

Alistair McKim (6:11)

Well, I'm sitting. I'm sitting in my hotel room at the Bristol right now, and I'm gonna have dinner. Oh, nice.

Lauren Sherman (6:16)

Well, maybe I'll run into you tomorrow.

Alistair McKim (6:18)

Yeah, I've gotta leave early back to New York, but I'm gonna have dinner after this, so I'm having late dinner. You had early dinner? Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (6:25)

Enjoy.

Alistair McKim (6:26)

Yeah, thanks.

Lauren Sherman (6:27)

Okay, so we're doing the great Fashion Month survey in how many minutes in. Let's try to keep this 45. We'll see how we do.

Alistair McKim (6:37)

Okay.

Lauren Sherman (6:38)

You know, we're unlucky in that there's not gonna be a big announcement. The last one, when Mel was on the Dem. Was that last season or was it the season? Oh, it's the season before the Demna Gucci. Oh, that was a year ago. Wow.

Alistair McKim (6:52)

Yeah, I was listening.

Lauren Sherman (6:53)

Demna Gucci dropped. It was so exciting. I knew it was coming, which is why I timed it then. But it felt very spontaneous and exciting. Anyway, I was.

Alistair McKim (7:01)

I don't think I was listening to that part. That conversation between you, Mel, in the car on the way from JFK to my house after the shot.

Lauren Sherman (7:09)

It was very dramatic. I don't know if we're gonna get that, but, like, how did you feel about this? Is. This is kind of a settling in from the season. Like, the dust settled.

Alistair McKim (7:23)

Yeah. And everybody talks about the sort of, like, difficult second albums and all of that stuff and, like, the sophomore collections. And, I mean, I feel very positive about where fashion is after this week. Um, you know, and also I have a good sort of filter. So when I. When I look back at the month, you know, there, to me, there's only, like, a couple of shows in each city up until Paris that I'm really sort of still focused on or still remember. And then Paris was really good. There was a lot of strong collections, and it just felt like an exciting week. And the weather being good definitely helped. And getting out of like minus whatever degree in New York to sunny Paris definitely helped, but. But yeah, I mean, I feel like I'm always sort of looking at it from the designer's perspective and the creative's perspective. And I think like a lot of the times the designers get a lot of the heat for being able to produce the business side, which I don't think is fair. You know, so creatively I find it very exciting. And I think there's a lot of amazing designers and amazing houses and, you know, probably not enough independence. You know, like when I was looking at all the shows and the list of shows and it's all like houses with designers at the helm rather than like independent houses, you know, like, that's why I love, you know, like Marc Jacobs, Simone Rocha, Rick Owens, like people that are really doing their thing for themselves I think is really important. So I'd love to see a bit more of that. And then you come to Paris and it's like, it's the big houses, you know, the Maisons, and it's. I think it was a pretty strong showing. What do you reckon?

Lauren Sherman (9:11)

Yeah, no, I agree. I think there's something happening right now where the big brands are starting to realize or for a long time. I did, I talked about this on the podcast this week with Derek about Paris, but like, I did want to. I did a pre show interview, group interview with Jonathan Anderson and he was talking about like rep. He sounded like a CEO and he was like, repetition. Product doesn't sell anymore. It used to be that you could sell the same jacket for 10 years and you just can't anymore. The consumer has changed the way they think about buying stuff and I think that's globally and you really need to find like the why in why you are making things. And there was, I thought that some of the second. The sophomore collections were not good at all, but a lot of them were amazing. And it felt like, okay, these are, this is. They're giving people a reason to be excited about getting dressed and about buying stuff because no one needs to buy anything. And I thought there was just. There was a lot of really nice stuff. And also it did help that the weather was great, but you know, the weather was great in Milan and Milan was a lot, a lot tougher.

Alistair McKim (10:29)

So yeah, I didn't make it to Milan, but yeah, there was a lot of desirability. I could, I mean, from the sort of highlights in Paris, definitely you just feel people, you feel people shopping while the show's happening. And that's always like A really good sign. Like, you can tell after the show, like, everybody's sort of, like, lusting after the clothes or the accessories or whatever it is is always brilliant. And I think. I mean, for me, it's like, it's really important that the big houses really level up to bring everybody else up to keep our industry really thriving like it is. And I think that's why Chanel hitting it is amazing. Dior hitting it is amazing. Like, YSL has been, you know, Anthony's been there a decade, and it's still, like, tried and tested and true. And, like, there's. I think what's really important now is the brands that are so precise in, like, what they're trying to say and who their customer is and who delivering to. And like, anybody that's, like, not 100% convincing is over. You know, that's how it feels.

Lauren Sherman (11:29)

So you're. It was announced. I don't know if you can much. How much you can talk about it, but you're launching a new magazine. I don't know if you're already, like, planning shoots for it, but editorially, did you feel like there was a lot to work with from, like, shoe concepts and pulling and creativity that sort of.

Alistair McKim (11:47)

Yeah, definitely. I mean, it. Well, Prototype, which is my company that I've set up, and it is a company rather than a magazine. I think that's what it. You know, that's how I would differentiate it. I mean, the magazine is sort of part of the company, but it's like a creative studio and a consultancy agency and. And a magazine. And I mean, I'm very much like, editorial first. I think that's where the ideas come from. Like, that's where the freedom is. And that's why I've always kind of like, leaned into that. And that's really where I. Sort of where I started and where I thrive, I think, is, like, doing the editorial. But I think that's sort of like the shop window into, like, everything else we do with, you know, kind of behind the scenes with, like, brands and working with designers. And, you know, I love the idea of being able to make product, you know, with prototype, it's like the magazine is a product that we make, but we're also going to make product that is across lots of different categories. And, you know, it's an exciting way to sort of work creatively. And I've always. You know, I was a stylist for many years, but then I've been able to, like, evolve into these other roles. And that's why like editor in chief of id, which I did for five years, was so exciting for me because you really get to work across multiple disciplines and that. So that's what prototype is. And I'm going to bring my first issue out for next September. So this is the moment when we're seeing the collections, we're seeing the shows, we're looking at the ideas. And, I mean, for me, it's really about the brands. Like, what I love, as I said, is very strong brands. So the clothes are a small part of that, and then the Runway show is a part of that, and then the campaigns are a part of that, and the stores are a part of that, and the consumer and the influencers and the VIPs and the red carpet and all of those things are part of that brand. So it's the same with a magazine as part of a bigger. A bigger story. So there's definitely. There's definitely trends happening, and there always is, whether we want, you know, whether we want. It was just funny today, like a Miu Miu. There was, like, dirt on the ground, and Hermes. There was dirt on the ground. I was like, this is kind of interesting.

Lauren Sherman (13:59)

There was. And then I guess Stella McCartney was at Horse stables. But there was maybe one other thing where there was grass. I didn't. I don't know if there was, but it was funny. There were bugs on the ground at both Hermes and.

Alistair McKim (14:11)

And, yeah, I don't like getting dirty, so it wasn't ideal.

Lauren Sherman (14:17)

It's weird.

Alistair McKim (14:18)

I was like, it's dirty. I don't know about this.

Lauren Sherman (14:21)

Yeah, Yeah. I was like, I'm glad I didn't wear my kids. I wore white ballet flats there.

Alistair McKim (14:28)

I saw that. I thought it was the Celine ones.

Lauren Sherman (14:30)

Like, no, they. It's Mariam Nassir, right?

Alistair McKim (14:35)

Yeah. Someone next to me had the Celine ones, and I was like, oh, you cursing in your white leather Celine slippers in the mud. And then also difficult to walk in and heels. But, yeah, I was like, does this mean, you know, we can always, like, sort of wax lyrical on what these things can mean about, like, you know, having your feet on the ground? But, you know. And I liked the. I liked Matthew's crayons at his work in progress at Chanel. Um, but that kind of felt. I grew up in Belfast, which has, like, two giant yellow crayons. Harland and Wolf are the shipbuilders. And I was like. And so it felt kind of, like, weirdly emotional for me. And then they started playing, like, Billy the Billy Elliot, like, voiceover on the track and everything. And it was all very like, what is this? Working class heroes? Like, you know.

Lauren Sherman (15:25)

Yeah. He really does get to the sort of the like, core of childhood and why. And. And I was thinking just like, wow, working like working class. And then the first couple looks there was almost like flannel.

Alistair McKim (15:44)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (15:44)

I was like, oh, is he gonna only use humble fabrics? Obviously that's not what happened. Like, even the sort of like the Members Only jacket had was like crystal lined in crystal. It was. Everything he did was. It just got more and more layered of. Of texture and.

Alistair McKim (16:03)

Yeah. And I think he's. I think he's really, really tapping into that, though, with like the coco isms of sort of like, you know, from. From the worker to the. To the very like rich and bourgeois. I think is nice.

Lauren Sherman (16:18)

Yeah. And we should. We'll talk more about him. But I think to me, the thing that he did, he started a Bottega that seems to be moving forward. That last collection he did at Bottega with all the Richard Scarry stuff.

Alistair McKim (16:32)

Yeah, I was thinking about that.

Lauren Sherman (16:33)

I remember seeing that and thinking, I mean, I obviously like his aesthetic and am a fan and had bought. I had bought a couple Bottega things. But I thought you were talking about Richard Scarry. Sorry, no. Yes, definitely. I'm not a fan of Richard Scarry. Alastair, I don't know if your kids dealt. Were into it, but I think that is. Richard Scarry is the reason that all these kids have adhd. I'm not even joking.

Alistair McKim (16:58)

So that's.

Lauren Sherman (16:58)

Maybe those books are insane.

Alistair McKim (16:59)

Yeah, exactly. Well, my kid has adhd, as do I, so that's maybe the problem. Richard Scary, it's from.

Lauren Sherman (17:06)

It's from all the Richard Scary books. Because you look and there's like 15 storylines on each page. I'm like, how do you even know which. Which line to read next?

Alistair McKim (17:14)

It takes days.

Lauren Sherman (17:15)

Completely insane. But it was so like the idea. The thing I said to someone, we'll talk more about Chanel. But as you know, as most people listen to this podcast know, I got one of the Chanel jackets from the first collection. And so many people I was talking to Vanessa Friedman today about it. Who I get, who I could tell was like, you're. You're a freak. Like, I could tell she was just like, how you're insane. And I said, look, like, I'm not going to buy anything else, I promise. And when I was like 14 years old and I wanted to be a fashion writer and go to shows and write about them, no joke. Since I was 14, this is what I dreamed that it would look like, and it's never looked like that. And there's something about him that he's, like, trying to get to the core of this wonderment of seeing something for the first time and really enjoying it and feeling this. And I remember that Richard Scarry collection where I was like, these people look like what I wanted to look like when I grew up. And I feel like that's what he's doing and why everybody loves it so much because it's fulfilling this childhood fantasy. When you still believe in Santa Claus, you can believe that clothes or whatever can transform you. And it's just really fun to witness

Alistair McKim (18:35)

because, yeah, he really understands that world of wonder and the naivety and the excitement of, like, you know, kind of your eyes fully open to the world. And that's very childlike.

Lauren Sherman (18:49)

Yeah. I thought that Marc Jacobs caught that, too, this season, and sometimes doesn't. Sometimes doesn't. His. His ideas are always so. He had. He has so many. But obviously, you work on that show.

Alistair McKim (19:02)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (19:03)

What did you think of how he presented it? And the fact that I loved the credits and receipts page where he showed all the different references, including some of his old collections. Saint Laurent collections, Miu Miu collections, Comme des Garcons collections. And it was just such a. It was such a cool way to see the way his mind works. And then the end result was totally Mark, and that felt so good, and was another person who, when I was in high school, I was just totally obsessed with him and wanted to write about him and go to his shows. And this show in particular gave me the feeling of wow, Like, I got to actually do it. But what were you all thinking behind the scenes?

Alistair McKim (19:45)

I mean, I think Mark was sort of the gateway drug to fashion for all of us. Right. I mean, he's sort of just, like, ever present for our generation. I mean, that's the thing with Mark. And, like, you know, of course, as a super Marc super nerd, I kind of know all of the sort of doors that he opened and all the things that he started and, you know, I mean, he kind of, like, invented, like, the artist collaboration and the designer collaboration and, like, all of those things that we sort of take for granted today. And I think, you know, he's always done those programs where he's credited everybody for the shows. It was just interesting. Like, I posted it on my Instagram after the show, and it got picked up. And, you know, everybody's really excited to see, like, everybody Gets credited, like, you know, whether it's like, the team that helps on the show or the atelier that, you know, everybody that works on the show, no matter at what level you get credit in the program, including all the models and then what with what they're wearing. But the credits and receipts is super cool because I think it's really nice for designers to. To not try and hide the fact that they're influenced by other designers and that everybody's just, like, inspired. And especially for Mark. Mark's such a fashion lover and he loves designers, and he's so supportive, and he sort of becomes such a mentor to so many designers now because he's like a living legend and one of the last of that, like, era of. Of, like, iconic designers, you know. And I think, you know what, the weekend that we were working on the show prep, like, he was talking about, you know, no matter how many collections you've done, you're always like. You always want people to like it. It's. It's more of, like, a psychological thing of, like, validation seeking through our. Through our work or whatever. And then the fact that now, like, with Instagram, social media, and all of the world in which we live in today, like, everybody's a critic, right? So, like, we were talking a lot about that, and he posted on his Instagram, like, the. The man in the arena quote by Roosevelt, you know, and it's. And it is kind of amazing because it's. It's so true today that, like, everybody's become a critic and everything gets torn down and, like, negative reinforcement. Actually, you know, it really does affect people. And I think, you know, criticism in itself is, I guess, like an open platform today. Like, that's what it is. And you just sort of have to be able to. How do you deal with that, you know, as a creative? And it really can, like, affect your. Not only your mental health and your creativity, but also your business, right? So I think the man in the arena quote is amazing about basically, like, unless you've done this job, like, how can you really criticize it? You know, but then I think, you know, when it comes to fashion, we all. We all have to have our own perspective and our own point of view. And we. We definitely, you know, kind of refine that as we. As we get older as well. But I think my sort of sentiment with all of that is really just to talk about what you do. Like, you know, I think there's so. There's so much negativity now, you know, and I think instead of Something that was sort of drummed into me as a young creative, like when I started working at ID, was this mantra, one of ID's mantras from Terry and Trish. Like the, the founders was like, we're fans, not critics. So they were like, just focus on what you love rather than what you don't love. Like, everyone's going to like, hate things or not like things or whatever. But I think there's something to be said and I was thinking about a lot. This was like the weekend before Fashion Month started when Mark was talking about this. And I've just been thinking about it all months. Like, just focus. Go towards the light, right? Like, focus on what you love. And like, it's so easy in our business. And also it's like this sort of bonding mechanism of like, everybody talking shit about each other or talking shit about other designers or people you're not working with or whatever. And I think that's kind of, you know, what I sort of took out of this whole show prep with Mark was really that. Which doesn't really explain to you much about the clothes, but I think that's the way Mark works. It's so psychological in a way, and philosophical. And I think when it comes to the clothes, I think he was. We had sort of reached peak oversize last season with our like 19 silhouettes, which were really extreme. And the fact that we only did 19 because they were all. They were all really. Instead of doing groups of like we do in fashion shows, where we sort of build like groups and bond one look leads to the next. These were like 19, like, standalone, like, characters. That's why it was such a small amount of characters in a way, because it's like, it's easy to make a 40 look show if you're duplicating things three or four times, you know, but if you're doing like these standalone characters, then it becomes very edited. And I think for this season it was like, where do you go after you've gone as extreme as you can, you know? And just, I think, I think for Mark also just, you know, he just instinctively wants to do something that excites him. That's it, you know?

Lauren Sherman (24:52)

Yeah. It's funny because the criticism post that he posted, I mean, obviously I'm. I am pro criticism, but I feel complicated about the. The flood of criticism online because I in part of me thinks, well, everyone can have an opinion. And a lot of times there are people who have insights who don't have any authority, but actually are really smart and make me Think differently. But I also think. I think there's the lack of. Everything is so polarizing, and there's a lack of understanding the gray area. And the thing I will say about Mark is I thought it was interesting he posted that, because I think of him as someone who's actually very open to criticism in terms of, like, I've written a lot of tough things about his business, and also, just generally, I think he's not always been. There have been collections where he will get panned or people are frustrated with him, and I feel like he is very respectful of that job. But I think the challenge now is there's just so much online, and I find it exhausting. And sometimes I'll say to people, like, why do you even read. Read this stuff? But it is it, and it's. You see it in our. In the political landscape, and you see it a lot in fashion. And there was something like the Calvin Klein show, for instance. Like, that show was bad. I'm not gonna say it wasn't bad. But what I will also say is that there were things that were better about it. And that's a very complex situation that I think very few people who even cover this business understand how tough it is for that designer and also for all the people who work there. And the lack of willingness to see the 360 point of view on it is what I find so exhausting about. Like, I don't know about you, but I get messages from people all day long with their opinions of the collections, what they think, and some of them have a real education or a real background where I really do value their opinion. And a lot of them, you know, I'm willing to take it, but I'm like, dude, you don't. What. Why do you care about this for sure?

Alistair McKim (27:26)

Second of all, I've sort of worked on the other side of fashion shows, and I remember, you know, working in Paris and doing huge shows and being so committed, and, like, you know, you literally finish a show, and it's like, you've given, like, your life and blood to this thing, and then you walk out, and someone's like, meh, that's tough. And I think, like, it's that kind of attitude that I hear.

Lauren Sherman (27:48)

I mean, I think.

Alistair McKim (27:49)

I think with you, like, you know, what I love about Lion Sheet is that it's. It's about information. I love information. Like, I love information. I live for that. I like. I want to know everything. I'm so curious about, like, our business and the. And the people that work in It. And the creativity that goes into that. And also just understanding the sort of like, creative versus business and, like, all of those things. So it's not like, just, you know, there's just a lot of sort of on social media now, just like, negativity for negativity's sake, because it does do better. It actually does better on the algorithms and whatever. And it's like, actually, why did these anonymous people get to have an opinion? And it really hurts people, you know, like, personally and. And with their careers. So anyway, I don't know where this conversation's going. Sort of taking a turn, but I think, you know, I agree.

Lauren Sherman (28:38)

No, I think it's interest. It's interesting. And. And we're gonna. We're gonna share our opinions about the rest of the collections in.

Alistair McKim (28:45)

Yeah, exactly. I want to go back to what you. What you said about. What you said about Calvin Klein.

Lauren Sherman (28:51)

Yeah, I thought that it looked. Look, I don't. I think the individual pieces is challenged. I also think it literally doesn't matter. Raf Simmons and Matt Tublasi and Peter Mullie were there, and it didn't work because the company cannot. Cannot manage a ready to wear business. It will never be able to. It's not. It's a company that doesn't even make clothes. They. They have a license that makes their underwear and denim and stuff. Like, people just don't understand. And so I think that. That. That the designer is. She's handicapped in so many ways, but then on top of it. But I did think, like, she switched stylists this season. She worked with Marie Shea, who is just, like, an incredible Runway show stylist. And I did think it was a clearer idea. And so. But no one said that.

Alistair McKim (29:48)

No one agreed to mine.

Lauren Sherman (29:49)

But, like, I know. Did you. What did you think as a person who can do this? Who does this?

Alistair McKim (29:56)

Like, I think the problem was is that, you know, you're not leaving that show with a clear idea of what's being said. And I think that's exactly what I was, like, talking about earlier was the point that, like, it has to be so crystal clear. Like, there's so much noise now. The brands have to be crystal clear. Calvin was not crystal clear. Balenciaga was not crystal clear. Those are the collections, for me that stood out as ones that were not precise. There was no proposal of any silhouette, shape, form. Like, what is it you're trying to say? I would rather see the same silhouette 50 times and then walk away and know what they're trying to say and then be like, okay, I know what the campaign's going to look like. I know what the marketing is going to look like. I know what people are going to look like wearing this clothes like whenever. It's just a mishmash of like a showroom. It doesn't make any sense for anybody because we can get clothes anywhere. It's. But I think that's why like the middle's falling out. Like we need super high luxury fashion and then there's a amazing high street from like garbage and Amzara. Like everything in the middle is so tough and it's so tough to like compete with like financially.

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Lauren Sherman (31:34)

It is not hard to destroy a college. Last season the podcast Campus Files brought you stories of fraternity drug rings, stolen body parts, campus cults and more.

Alistair McKim (31:44)

And now Campus Files is back for another season. There's a guy screaming into his phone. He's like, I just saw Charlie Kirk get assassinated right in front of me. Every week is a new episode and a new story. It was so chaotic. It's almost like a university under siege.

Lauren Sherman (31:59)

Listen to and follow Campus Files available now wherever you get your podcasts. You know what else I really liked in New York is this brand. Colleen Allen. Yeah. Have you seen this?

Alistair McKim (32:12)

I actually, yeah, I heard you talking about it as well on your podcast.

Lauren Sherman (32:15)

I think that she. I was thinking about this recently because I remember going to Jonathan Anderson's studio in east London in 2011 with Swarovski because they were like, and it was his first women's wear show and I was like in the studio with him and the Swarovski PR person and he was putting together the women and I ended up buying. It was like, it was a woven navy jumper that had like ribbons woven on the front and then like a stiff plastic yellow collar. I bought, I bought it from, I got it on Moda pre order. But I remember like thinking, oh, this per. This guy. Is it like I knew then and I'm not, I'm not some like. But you just could tell and there aren't. There's not a lot of people like that right now. I think that she is. She has a lot of skill, and there's something really beautiful about the stuff she makes. Really commercial, really specific. And like, the. Like, Jonathan in his Dior show did, like, the button, the covered button, and it was so gorgeous. Those jackets, like, the little bridal buttons. She's been doing that sort of a kind of thing like that for a long time. She just uses little fasteners. But I think. I don't know, I think, like, she. Out of all the things that are happening in New York, she is the one that I think, oh, she could potentially. She's so young. Maybe she has it in her to, you know, 15 years from now be at one of these houses. I don't know. And I don't know if the industry works in the same way where she'll have the. She'll get the sort of support that she needs or if she wants it. Like she's building her own brand. But she's the one out of all the young New York designers who I think is, like, really skilled.

Alistair McKim (34:13)

Right.

Lauren Sherman (34:13)

And could potentially do something more.

Alistair McKim (34:16)

And that's the thing you need to be able to make clothes now. Right. Like, you know, and understand that. Right. Because there's not enough of that.

Lauren Sherman (34:24)

Yeah. In. In London, I feel like Simone Rocha is the best example of, like, what an independent brand can do.

Alistair McKim (34:34)

Yeah. I'm not even. And, yeah, just. And just in general, not even in London, like. Like, when you think about independent designers, like, for me, it's like her and Rick. Right. Like, people that really. And that's what I mean about, like, focus. It's like Simone's just incredible, and she's just done it her way, and she's been offered the jobs and she's been offered the Paris, and she's been offered this, that, and the other. And she's just like, so focused and so organized, and she knows exactly what she's doing for the next show probably already, you know? And, like, that's just how she works. And it's like the way that she designs, the way she. She designs the show, she designs in a lineup. She doesn't make excess. She designs it how it's going to be shown. And, like, I have so much respect for that, you know, like, that's. That's like vision, you know, And I think she does it in a really beautiful way. And, like, she's. She's dragged so many people along with her for the ride, and I think that's the same as Rick. Right. It's like Rick's just got his thing, and, you know, and, of course, those designers could have gone to houses and probably have a much more difficult life and time and, you know, and I think, yeah, it's. It's. It's a tricky choice, I think, to Whether you take a house or to do your own thing. And, you know, but I. I saw Anthony today from St. Laurent, and he. He wouldn't go back to doing his own thing. It's like he's done a decade at ysl, and it's like you. You grow and evolve and. And, you know, you start getting interested in bigger things as well, other things outside of fashion. You know, I think that's what's interesting. I think that's what's interesting for all of us, like, who grow up in this industry, because, you know, and I feel like I've been doing this, like, longer than I've been doing anything else. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, where do you go next from this? And for me, it's sort of like the creative studio idea, which, you know, isn't a new idea, but it's just something that I'm excited to do, and I think it just sort of happens because it's. Some people just want to. Some stylists want to just style and style Runway shows, and that's what they want to do. I mean, for me, I just. I'm much more excited and, like, broadening my horizons. And I love image as much as I love image probably more than I love fashion, you know, so it's like. And it's the same for designers. It's like, where do you go? Do you stay independent? Do you do your own thing? Do you kind of build it slowly and have the freedom there? Or do you jump into the houses and know that it's a roll of the dice? You could be there for 1, 2, 3, or 10 years. So, yeah, it's interesting. And I do think there's just so much competition now that I think what's going to happen moving forward is, like, a lot of this noise is going to drop out of. Like, a lot of these brands are not going to survive.

Lauren Sherman (37:22)

No. What did you think of Daniel? What do you think of Daniel Lee at Burberry and this season in particular? But how do you feel like. Because that's been such a journey of him at Bottega and having such a clear, like, proposition to going to Burberry and not really having someone guiding him, and now he has Josh Shulman, who's a good CEO, and it's doing a good job with it, but it doesn't. I thought this collection felt more like what I remember Daniel Lee Bottega being, like, a little bit more esthetically closer to that, but. But it's very much. He's obviously in the service of Burberry, but I'm curious what you thought about it.

Alistair McKim (38:07)

Yeah, I mean, I agree it felt much cleaner and, you know, like, the edge that we kind of want from him. And, you know, I think, you know, that's what you want from Burberry. Right? Great coats and, you know, and, yeah, his Bottega was so. I mean, I still have clothes from his Bottega that I'm still wearing, like, even this week. You know what I mean? It's like he's. Yeah, what he did in his first couple of seasons of Bottega, like, really changed everything. He's still. I'm still wearing the boots, I'm still wearing the shirts. I'm still wearing the cargo pants, like, all of that stuff. His menswear was so good. It was so good. And it's like, it's really durable. So, you know, however long ago that was, and then, yeah, I. I expected Burberry to be more like that. Like, a little bit more like Northern England, like, kind of Joy Division was what I was hoping for from the beginning. You know, I was like, yeah, you know, just like, I grew up in Belfast and, like, that's. That's, to me, what Burberry should look like. It's, like, harder. It's more gray. It's like. It's a bit more kind of like working class. And, like, even going back to what we're saying about Matthew, like, the working class hero, like, you know, the sort of like, real workwear and super strong tailoring, heavy fabrics, like, that's. That's what I want to see from Burberry. Is that the Northern England version of that? Like the coal miners, Burberry, you know, But I love that. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't a big fan of the ruffle, but, you know, other people were, so it's like, I didn't mind it. Yeah, I like. I like the coats a lot. And I was like, yeah, this is cool. I'm like, for me, I might either. You're either looking for things to photograph or to wear. You know, for me, like, that's what I'm doing. And I know, yeah, people are looking at collections in different ways. I know you love to shop, so I.

Lauren Sherman (39:57)

You Know, though I really try to take myself out of it one, because I would never wear a ruffled trench coat. But. But I do try to think about like sometimes whether or not something has a commercial viability or if there is something and obviously there they want to sell coats and. And I think that collection did a better job of propos, like proposing coats. I also, I just wish. I just wanted to be really fun. They're doing a very good job in their marketing and in the merchandising of the stores that it just feels like in the similar way that Moncler is just like, it's about that jacket, they're making it about the trench coat, which is honestly, I think such a valuable wardrobe piece now because of the fact that it rains and is scary all the time everywhere. And then also you don't really need super heavy coats all the time. I mean, this winter was great for Montclair's business, but the point being that it's like a. It's a valuable thing. Like everyone in who has a certain amount of money should own a Burberry. Like Burberry check.

Alistair McKim (41:04)

Yeah. And also for them, if they. They own something as part of their DNA, they're crazy not to lean into it. So that's why, like, yeah, that the marketing really makes sense.

Lauren Sherman (41:13)

I think it could be fun. I. I think he. I think what is interesting is that Daniel Lee is obviously taken whatever brief Josh Shulman has given him and listened and been able to create, you know, viable collections within that framework. I would like it to be more playful and I think that is missing. There are a few brands, big brands that I think could be more playful and that it would benefit them. And I don't know, I can't think of a designer exactly who I think should be there. But I know there's. There's a couple younger people in London that are.

Podcast Sponsor Announcer (41:53)

Would be.

Lauren Sherman (41:54)

That are interesting that could do it. But I think like, thinking about it more in a more playful way and less serious is. It would be helpful. It would add some levity to the. I think what Josh is probably trying to do is look at what they did with Stuart Vevers at Coach, which has been very, very successful. Successful. But I think like, they have an opportunity to take that like one step further and bring in like a really young, interesting designer who's also a responsible human being who can manage a big brand like that, which is hard to get that mix. But then think about things in the way you're talking about, like explore working. I mean, Burberry is so connected to, like, chav culture and all that too, in. In England that, like, is there a way to explore that intellectually? That could be like, look at how much a Prada is exploring more working class culture.

Alistair McKim (42:51)

Exactly.

Lauren Sherman (42:51)

In all these different ways that, like, is a little.

Podcast Sponsor Announcer (42:56)

Can be a little.

Lauren Sherman (42:57)

Like, today at Mew Mew, I was a little uncomfortable. Like, it. It was. And backstage, she was talking about how, like, she was thinking about how we're all just small. We're basically specks in the world were each so small, but, like, building a sort of, I don't know, armor around it through clothes. And I asked because, no, it was really weird backstage. I think everyone was so tired. No one was asking questions. And I usually don't at Prada because I'm like, I feel like I'm not grown up enough or something. But I was like, did you feel melancholy? And she said, no, but I was like, I did. I thought that clothes were great, and there was so many individual pieces that were just like, oh, a. They reminded me of, like, what I thought of Miu Miu when I was younger. And there was, like, that nostalgia feeling. But also they were just great things and great shoes and all of that. But I also was like, wow, after going from Mattu, where you're just like, everything is okay, to going to this. The reality of life. And I was like, man, yeah, I have to go back to my real life tomorrow.

Alistair McKim (44:08)

I know.

Lauren Sherman (44:09)

Yeah.

Alistair McKim (44:09)

I think I always.

Lauren Sherman (44:10)

She really, like, gets to the heart and, like, makes you think about life in a way. I don't even think she realizes she's doing it, but I'm always at the end, like, man, she really knows how to get to you. Like, straight to the heart. It's amazing that a designer can do that.

Alistair McKim (44:25)

Yeah. I mean, I always like things that feel. I always like things that feel quite grinded. I'm not really, like, a fantasy person so much, although I feel like I've been in a fantasy world just being at the shows and, like, not reading the news. I've just kind of like. And then I feel like I'm being irresponsible. But I've had such a good week because I came here and I just have been immersed in this. So I've been so busy with. With the shows and work that I haven't even had a chance to, like, be freaked out about everything else that's going on, which is what happens when I'm in New York, you know? But, yeah. But, yeah, I think it's just it's interesting in Mimi because the collections are really strong, but, like, I was sitting in front of a row of women all wearing, like, aprons, looking like my dinner lady from, like, 1995 from school in front of me. Like, everyone, like, really commits to the thing. So many dinner ladies sitting in front of me. I was like, this is really hilarious.

Lauren Sherman (45:19)

Wild.

Alistair McKim (45:19)

And then when I saw the first gray men's suit come out on a woman, I was like, oh, shit. I guess, like, everything you're wearing in the front row now, I look so dated. It looks old fashioned. And that's the sort of fashion victim territory that I think is dangerous, you know, because everybody, now that was the whole audience of Mimi today, now looks dated, I think.

Lauren Sherman (45:41)

Yes. And also she is. Is just like, I'm gonna do what I want to do. And she's not worried about that. It's such an interesting. Like, last season, those house stresses and things that made people uncomfortable too, but it was bright and colorful, whereas this was like, okay, this is the cleaning person or whatever, like the office worker. And it was. It's just. It's amazing to me that this woman can make you think about so much other than fashion through a Runway collection. There's no one else who. I never. I'm never sitting at a Runway show being like, wow, our world is so fucked up. But every time I sit at one of her shows, I'm like, wow, the world is so complex. And for. Somehow she's able to communicate it through clothes. And that's just. It's so. It's so remarkable to me. Like, it's just amazing. And it was. It was interesting at Prada, too. Their whole exercise of, like. I feel like what they're doing on the Runway is saying we have to sell a bunch of stuff. And we know that, and we're gonna intellectualize that by what we do on the Runway. And that, to me, is like a whole other thing. That's like. It's like a lot of it. I mean, even today, it's all commentary on, like, commerce and consumption, and it's. There's no one else. I mean, I don't think most of the people who are doing this as a job could even begin to, like, synthesize something like that. But you mentioned the. I know you're like, you really pay attention to the news. And I'm curious. As a European living in the US it was interesting because I feel it more when I'm here because you sit down to dinner and people just start talking about the war or they talk about whatever. Tim Blanks. The first thing that comes out of his mouth is something political thing that happened in America that I don't know about. He's like, can you believe that? I'm like, what are you talking about? Because I think in most of the US There's. It's so isolationist and so individualist that people do not engage. But it's interesting because this week I didn't feel. I thought everyone was going to be talking about the war nonstop, not only because it was happening, but because it's going to affect the businesses. No one talked about it, which is so interesting because it's like the opposite of what normally happens.

Alistair McKim (48:33)

Almost like too overwhelming at the moment. Right. Like, we weren't. Because we were so in it with what we're doing, we haven't even been able to process. Right. And I think that could be it. And. Or maybe we're all just getting so desensitized because I think that's also happening. And then again, the U. Like, at work in the US we're not even allowed to talk about politics anymore because you don't know who's on which side. And it very much is like, there's two sides in the U.S. i feel like there's very much like two sides, you know, And. And like, I mean, yeah, I could get into it. Like, I grew up in Belfast, so then I'm like Northern Irish. So then I'm Irish in Britain and then that's not. No longer in Europe. And then I'm. But I'm European because I've got an Irish passport, but I'm not European because I'm British. And like all of this complexity of that stuff is one thing. But like in Britain growing up, which is what Northern Ireland was and is it. It was like there's. There felt like more than two sides of things. Like there always felt like, yeah, a little bit of movement. There was a little bit of movement, you know. Whereas, like in the US I feel like it's very much like you're either red or blue. Like, that's it, you know?

Lauren Sherman (49:43)

Yeah. And I think in Europe that's still like, even I was talking to a really liberal person at one of the show, a European French person. Really super liberal. Left wing. Yeah, left wing, I would say, is a better. Totally skeptical of Mom Donnie, which in the US it's like, you have to be. If you're left wing or you're liberal or you're a Democrat, you have to be pro Momdani, where a Lot of. Yes. And. And I know a lot of people who have a lot of issues with Mamdani. I don't live in New York. I didn't vote, so I. I have no.

Alistair McKim (50:19)

Well, yeah, I mean, I am not

Lauren Sherman (50:20)

going to share my opinion.

Alistair McKim (50:21)

I vote for him. And I was very optimistic. And, you know, more will be revealed. Right. Like, let's see. Let's see what happens. But I know this city's filthy. You come to Paris and you're like, wow, this is so glamorous.

Lauren Sherman (50:36)

Oh, my God.

Alistair McKim (50:37)

I'm Milan. Super clean.

Lauren Sherman (50:41)

Milan is clean. So. So what? Yeah, I know you weren't in Milan, but what. Were there any shows that you were, like, really excited about or you thought looked interesting from afar?

Alistair McKim (50:51)

I was so excited about Gucci.

Lauren Sherman (50:53)

Yeah.

Alistair McKim (50:54)

And I know that it's like. Like, that's the strength of Demna. It's polarizing. Right. People are. People are, like, totally freaked out either way. It's like, you're freaked out either way. You know, I think he did exactly the right thing. That's what I think. He did exactly the right thing for the brand. We know what it is. It's. It's so Demna. But it's a new Demna. And I think. I love his satire always. And I love his extremity. And I don't think. I think we have to just live in the extremes in fashion. And I think he's so good at that, and I love that.

Lauren Sherman (51:31)

Yeah. And also, the show looked great in person. And speaking of online critics. Fuck off about the quality, people. You don't know what you're talking about. I talked to a designer who worked at Gucci for a long time who said the quality has not been the same since Frida. And anyone who acts like it suddenly got went downhill doesn't know what they're talking about because the quality of clothes has just changed. And, like, the quality is perfectly fine. And this. That was a. That was an example where I was, like, annoyed by the online conversation around it.

Alistair McKim (52:06)

You're ready to protest.

Lauren Sherman (52:07)

What do you all know about this?

Alistair McKim (52:09)

What do you know about.

Lauren Sherman (52:10)

People get mad about? Yeah, it's so annoying when people. Like one of Sarah Shapiro I work with was like, people are complaining about the quality of Lululemon leggings right now or the quality of aloe leggings. And I was like, this is just. When they don't like a brand, they say the quality is bad. They don't know what they're talking about. No one. Anyone who thinks they know what they're talking about. Zara is great quality clothes, and they're really, really nice. Like, people are just. They're just full of shit. But I thought. I really enjoyed it. It was a great show. And also, there was shit I wanted to. Which, like, as I've said many times on this podcast and elsewhere, I love Demna. I'm a huge fan of him. I've never been a shopper of his stuff, and I liked Gucci a lot. The Proposal. I've never bought one piece of Gucci. Now I want stuff, and I think that that's interesting. Like, I'm a pretty basic beat, you know?

Alistair McKim (53:03)

So basically, it's good. That's really funny. I mean, I think a little bit. I bought lots of Balenciaga because I'm short and I'm not skinny, so, you know, it worked for me.

Lauren Sherman (53:16)

You're skinny enough.

Alistair McKim (53:17)

I'm great. I'm great at an oversized bomber jacket and, like, baggy pants. That's my thing. And I love a black hoodie. So Balenciaga, I was, like, happy to buy. So I don't know what I'm gonna. If I'm gonna buy Gucci or what I would buy from Gucci, but I just love the brand. The thing is, like I said, it's like I'm either looking at it to fit, to photograph editorially or to wear. And there's so many pictures in that collection. There's so many shoots you can do. And, you know, I was thinking about this, like, damn, this stuff. You really want to do photo shoots. You know, you really want to shoot it. It's characters. It's cool. It's like, those are great, great clothes to shoot because people look amazing in them. And I think, you know, I was thinking about this with Celine, with Michael Ryder. Celine. That's not something where you're like, oh, my God, I have to shoot this, because I feel like the way that he. The way that he styles it and the way that he serves it up and the Runway shows that he does, it's kind of peak. Celine. You can't then take that apart and make it better. It's as good as it can possibly be. He's, like, the best. Michael Ryder is the best stylist out there. Like, amazing stylist.

Lauren Sherman (54:24)

I wonder if it would be cool to have him style a shoot.

Alistair McKim (54:27)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (54:29)

Idea for you. Have him style a shoot with his clothes and other people's clothes.

Alistair McKim (54:34)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (54:34)

And maybe just vintage.

Alistair McKim (54:35)

I mean. Yeah. I'll take that back, though. Olivier Rizza is the best Stylist.

Lauren Sherman (54:41)

The best.

Alistair McKim (54:41)

The best.

Lauren Sherman (54:42)

I agree. I mean, I think the Michael thing is so fascinating because I said. I said it feels very like for us. By us. Yeah. But like, it's interesting because a lot of Europeans like it. And even I think now everyone's come around to Chanel. But originally the Europeans were kind of like, I don't know about the Chanel. Whereas all the Americans were like, I mean, I was so happy. I. You don't know. I got hate mail last season because people were like, you're being too nice about Chanel. And I was like, you're insane. It's the best thing.

Alistair McKim (55:20)

They thought you were getting a kickback or something.

Lauren Sherman (55:22)

Yeah, no, definitely.

Alistair McKim (55:24)

But yeah. To talk about. But I think Salim was like my favorite show of the week. It was a highlight. I thought it was. I just loved the whole experience.

Lauren Sherman (55:34)

Solid.

Alistair McKim (55:35)

It's the whole experience, like, as far as, like, holistically as a show. The clothes, the set, the sign, the everything, you know, the sandwiches, the water, like, whatever. Whatever they were serving us up. Like, I was loving it. I think Celine was the best show of the week. And Haider's Tom Ford was amazing. Alaia was amazing. Saint Laurent was amazing. Dior was amazing. Like, there were so many great shows. Right. Come to garcon was insane. I love Comme to garcon.

Lauren Sherman (56:07)

I know. I wish I had gone. You know, I never go to the Japanese.

Alistair McKim (56:10)

That's my. That's my church. Saturday is like.

Lauren Sherman (56:14)

I know.

Alistair McKim (56:14)

And now there's like all the calm shows, plus Celine and Hermes. So it's become like a bit of a luxury day.

Lauren Sherman (56:23)

Well, when I worked at business of Fashion, there were so many of us that. And like, they don't. I would have had to stand or something. And I was just always like, it's fine. I'm just not going to go in it. It's fine. Like, it was not. I was not a priority at those. At that company and nor should I have been. But I. I saw Daisy Hoppin in. In London and she's like, if you want to come request, we would like to have you. And I was going to. And next season I will. But sometimes, like, for me, because I am thinking about the commerciality of this stuff and obviously those clothes are. There is commerciality in comb. It's an incredible business. It's just like, I am not. I don't always have something to say, unfortunately. Her show notes were so good this time about black, the color black. And I was like, I would have been able to write a Thousand words on this. I should have gone, because you just never know, like, sometimes. But I don't like to go to shows and not write about them. And so I was like, you know, I'm gonna take. And I had to deal with, like, getting our apartment ready for my family to come. So I was like, I'm not gonna go to those this time. But the thing is, speaking of inspiration, like, she is the basis of so much of what they all do, that, like, to not witness it firsthand when we have the ability to is sort of sacrilegious. And now I feel. Daisy, I really hope next season, when I request, I'll stand. I don't care.

Alistair McKim (57:53)

I would second that. Sacrilegious is a really good way to put it. It is my church on a Saturday in Paris. And, yeah, it was amazing, and the music was amazing. And I literally, like, sat there for a couple of minutes after it finished. I just, like, was loving it. It was incredible. And I do love that she actually gave a quote, because it does help sometimes. It's one word.

Lauren Sherman (58:19)

It really does.

Alistair McKim (58:20)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (58:21)

Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I think it is, really. I don't always do the backstage interviews or whatever, but I do find them to be really helpful and make it easier for me to write about it. Not always. Sometimes there are. Some of the. Some of the designers don't like to do them, and I understand, like, there. It's just. It's also really crazy and insane can be nuts.

Alistair McKim (58:42)

But I'm really torn with the backstage thing, because I always want to go back and, like, congratulate people, and then if you don't get in there, like, first, then you don't get to do it for, like, so long, you know, because, like, then it becomes, like, the interview time. Then, like, you know, it just takes forever. So, like, either you're close enough to go run in and give the designer a hug, or you're not. Like, I can't stand around for an hour waiting, because then I'll miss the next thing.

Lauren Sherman (59:07)

Yeah. And it just depends. I mean, every backstage is. Is run differently. I really enjoy the Prada backstage because it's completely nuts, and there's, like, a bodyguard protecting you. But her and Raf both, I think, are really good at communicating together.

Alistair McKim (59:23)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (59:24)

What they have to say. Yeah. And I love their dynamic. It's really fun to hear them sort of run in. Into each other's sentences and in a playful way and. And they all always have something fun

Alistair McKim (59:35)

to say, but they really do binds off each other so well. Right. They're really good at speaking together. It's like such an odd couple, but they're just amazing and rough with this Coke Zero.

Lauren Sherman (59:44)

Yeah. How do you feel about their partnership? Like, as like thinking pre Prada, pre Raph and now, like, how. What's your take on it?

Alistair McKim (59:57)

I mean, I love it. I think it says a lot. I think it says a lot about her as a person and a designer that she can do that. You know, I think, like, that's the coolest thing. I mean, she's. She's just like Wonder Woman. Right? But I think, like, that's so cool that and I. I mean, it was Raf Simmons work that got me into fashion. Like, that was when I was like, oh my God, I can see, see. I can see my friend, like, whenever he started shooting in the 90s, his, his shows and doing like, portraits of boys with like haircuts that like my friends had in Belfast and all of those things. Like, that's. That was my, like, sort of invite into the fashion world. So, like, I'm a massive Raf fan. Like, that's same it all like, for me, like, it all comes stems from Raf. And I think you can really tell that they've. That they work well together, not only when they're speaking backstage, but also you can tell by the designs and like the collections. And, you know, having Olivier in the middle of those two is like, amazing. The fact that, like, he was working with much before and he was obviously came up with Raph and then they're all working together and what they create is incredible. It's like impeccable. It's always a masterclass of like, fashion and style.

Lauren Sherman (61:16)

So, yeah, I'm such a fan of every single thing he's done and the way he works with other designers, I think, and everything he does is so. It has so much energy. I just, I love Joel Sander. I love the Dior. I love the Calvin. I obviously loved his. His collection and every single thing has been something that I feel like really personally connected to. And obviously she is. Makes you feel so much just by looking at whatever she does. The two of them together. Speaking of, like, me having shopping problem, I never bought Prada before him. And I think there are a lot of people. Like, I actually. I just got a vintage Prada skirt that I think is like, probably from the 90s, but in the era of me being able to buy designer clothes, I was not. I was never a Prada person. It's like too, too girly. It was too girly for me. Or something. Or too. Too. I don't know. It just wasn't right for me. I really liked it, but it wasn't something I would wear. And since he's arrived, like, I've bought a lot of stuff. Like, it just is. It's felt so much more connected to me, personally. I love. I love their dynamic.

Alistair McKim (62:39)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (62:40)

So much.

Alistair McKim (62:40)

And, like. Like you said, like, the merchandising just feels so good. Like, you can go it. You can go into the stores and buy things, you know, I mean, it's always like. Yes, there's always, like, really amazing product as well as, like, the shows as well as the concepts and the intellectualization of the shows. There's always amazing product in the stores, you know?

Lauren Sherman (63:00)

I agree.

Hank (63:06)

Hey, Sal.

Lauren Sherman (63:07)

Hank.

Hank (63:07)

What's going on?

Alistair McKim (63:08)

We haven't worked a case in years.

Hank (63:10)

I just bought my car at Carvana, and it was so easy. Too easy.

Alistair McKim (63:13)

Think something's up?

Hank (63:14)

You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

Lauren Sherman (63:29)

My buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.

Podcast Sponsor Announcer (63:35)

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Lauren Sherman (63:40)

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Alistair McKim (63:45)

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Lauren Sherman (63:51)

It's good to be Hawaii.

Alistair McKim (63:54)

Hey, new girl.

Lauren Sherman (63:55)

Hey. Look at what you've done to yourself.

Alistair McKim (63:57)

For a new plant to grow, the

Lauren Sherman (63:58)

seed has to die.

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Lauren Sherman (64:07)

Speaking of great product, can we talk about Isabel Marant?

Alistair McKim (64:11)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (64:12)

Because I loved it.

Alistair McKim (64:13)

Yeah, it's great.

Lauren Sherman (64:14)

I thought it was great.

Alistair McKim (64:17)

Yeah, it's kind of. I mean. Yeah. Not to sound like you, Lauren, but I just wonder what the price point is. Because it just. It looks like Gap or H and M or something. But it's like.

Lauren Sherman (64:29)

I think it's not that expensive. Yeah, No, I don't think so.

Alistair McKim (64:32)

Yeah, it's really good.

Lauren Sherman (64:33)

But I thought it was really funny because it's not like I always think it looks nice. And it's their thing. And they have this new designer, Kim Becker, who's been there for a long time. And she's Dutch, but, like, see, she's great. She looks. Yeah, she's cool. And she's like, no nonsense and looks Frenchy, but, like, is this Dutch lady? I think it's so interesting, but I don't know. This collection was like, it was funny. A friend of mine from college was like, oh my God, I love this. I'm like, this is literally what we wanted to be wearing in college.

Alistair McKim (65:09)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (65:09)

If there was just something about all the like little vintage 80s shoes. Yeah, it was fun. I thought it was a cute collection.

Alistair McKim (65:17)

Yeah. And it's a fun show to end the day on. It's got, that's the sort of energy you need for like the last show of the day, isn't it? You know, it's like, yeah, you feel the energy. But you know, going back to like Raph and Matu and Peter and like, they're, you know, going back to Calvin and like, I just. And it's the same with, with Haider. You know, he had a tough run and now he's like, oh my God. I don't know. That's what I've been really excited about is like the designers that, you know, the, the businesses weren't able to figure out how to harness their energy and now they all feel like they're in the right places, you know, and now we're going to see like where.

Lauren Sherman (65:53)

Yes.

Alistair McKim (65:54)

Where Peter's going to go with Versace. I think, like you've written about this that it's kind of, it's a no brainer. We know it's going to be great whatever it is. We don't know what it is, but it's going to be great. And like, he's an amazing merchandiser and like, I think, you know, Ralph, Peter, Matthew Heider, they all like had this moment of like trying to find their place in the world and like not being supported by the right brands and now they're just like on fire. And like Tom Ford was so good and all of, all of the work that they're all doing is so good. And I think, you know, as a creative, it's very much like, I don't know, I'm excited about it because it's like, yeah, you just need to give the designers the right support and they can, and they can produce amazing work, you know.

Lauren Sherman (66:35)

Yeah, it, Tom Ford was, was fabulous. I cannot wait for Versace. I think it's going to be great. And I totally get why, why they wanted him to do it. And I also, and Derek and I talked about this where Derek was sort of like, it's a bummer that he didn't get more time in AI, but I have to be honest, like, I just think sometimes things run their course and maybe he could have stayed for 10 more years and it would have been great and we would have still liked it. But I think Versace, it's a much bigger stage. And also the company is a company that sells clothes for a living. Richemont does not make their profit off of selling clothes. They make it off of jewelry. And so I think from my perspective, like, if you're an ambitious person. Yeah. You're going to take this Versace job. Like, yes, the lie job is precious and amazing, but I think let's just be happy that it existed in the same way we're happy that the one season of Daario at Versace existed and move on and see something. I'm so excited for it. I think it's gonna be awesome.

Alistair McKim (67:46)

Yeah. I think they should do a switcheroo and put Daario in Alaia.

Lauren Sherman (67:54)

It's not a bad idea. I have another place where I want Daario to kill, but I don't want to jinx the designer. Well, I don't want to say it because it's not something that I think is in the works at this moment, but I think at some point, if the current designer has announced that they're leaving, I'm going to put it into the air because I just think it's the right thing. And the current designer has not announced that they're leaving. And I've not. I don't know that they're like. The point being that it would be just like totally made up. And I don't do that. I actually as. As if you read line sheet. You know, I actually do do reporting and try to be responsible. So I don't want to put something into the air. Yeah, Sometimes I dream.

Alistair McKim (68:41)

But, like, you know who else I think would be great at a liah is Christopher Cain. Who? Christopher Cain.

Lauren Sherman (68:49)

Yes. Do you know, it's funny, I saw his partner this week because Mal. Because he, you know, he has that big party. I didn't end up going to it, but. Which I. Which is a bummer because I think. But he just sold his business to the independents. And I was like. I was thinking sitting there with him and I didn't say it, but I was like, man, he would be really good at a lie. Maybe. Maybe that's a possibility.

Alistair McKim (69:16)

We're putting it in the air.

Lauren Sherman (69:17)

He's really talented. Yeah, yeah. That I'm happy to put in the air. Let's talk about Balenciaga a little bit. I don't want to disparage because I think Pierre Paulo is a very talented designer. I think that that was, you know, it wasn't a good collection for many reasons. There were many nice pieces in it. If you were consulting at Balenciaga, how would you advise them to move forward? Because it's a challenge. Because you have a really talented designer whose skills, I feel like are not being showcased properly.

Alistair McKim (69:54)

I agree. I mean, I don't think you hire a designer that's incredible at a thing and then don't have them do the thing. That's what I don't understand. It's like his Valentino couture shows are so amazing. I really thought, like, I really thought the first Balenciaga Pier Paulo collection was going to be like, more like Demi Couture. Like, I wanted to see big shapes and feathers.

Lauren Sherman (70:24)

Yes.

Alistair McKim (70:25)

And we didn't see any of it. We saw like a showroom again. Like. Like Calvin Klein. It's like a showroom. It's his stuff. It's like nice clothes but no point of view. And this collection, I don't know what happened, but, you know, the venue was wrong. It smelled like car air freshener. The euphoria, like some from Euphoria's kind of whole, like digital screen presentation, didn't seem to fit with anything. I walked. Like, the. The soundtrack when we were walking in was so strange. Like, I walked into, like Biggie Smalls, who I love, but, like, not for a Balenciaga show. Like, I didn't know what was going on. And then I got a migraine and then someone saw me yawning on the live stream and then it was just a disaster. Like, that's not. You want to end your night, Isabel Moran? Not at that.

Lauren Sherman (71:15)

Yeah. Also they played Steely Dan Dirty Work, which I really enjoyed and have been playing on. That was like the highlight of that. The evening for me because I was like, I don't know why this song is playing, but I love it. And I'm gonna listen to it 45 times afterwards. But. But yeah, it did. None of it made sense.

Alistair McKim (71:32)

It doesn't make sense to me because he's amazing and Joe McKenna is amazing and I don't really see what's happening there. And there was like you said, there's nice clothes and you just want. You just want it to be razor sharp point of view.

Lauren Sherman (71:51)

Yeah. And you want it for, you know, the team there is great. Like, it's just. It just doesn't. They're. They need to sort of think about why. Why do. What are they. And I agree that I thought that it was gonna be real because the thing that people forget about is like, yes, One thing works, but eventually it will stop working, and you need to move towards. And the feeling I had was that this was because there was a lot of speculation that Peter Mulier was gonna go there, and he. And I was expecting it to move towards couture and that idea. Because, like, right now, what do people want? You see on the Runway, there's tons, like, the Row Michael Kors. Everybody's putting gowns and pants and trousers and, like, all this really, elegance. And that's what Pierre Palo does. And, like, sell the sneakers and jeans at the store, wherever you need to sell them.

Alistair McKim (72:53)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (72:53)

And, like, keep it. You can keep that. But I think the problem was, like, you go to the store and they just put so much into. And that's the challenge when you. When the creative director is the brand.

Alistair McKim (73:10)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (73:11)

And I think all these brands are kind of moving away from that now, but they need to figure out what they want Balenciaga to be. Yeah.

Alistair McKim (73:19)

And they shouldn't want to be like, a damn hangover, you know? No, like, because that's.

Lauren Sherman (73:24)

Because Demna's over this shit, too.

Alistair McKim (73:25)

Yeah. That's not. It's not fair on. On either house, you know?

Lauren Sherman (73:30)

No.

Alistair McKim (73:31)

And no. Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (73:34)

Yeah. It's challenging, and I'm, like, pulling for everybody involved.

Alistair McKim (73:40)

Exactly. And like I said, there's good. There's good clothes there. So it's more of, like, the show and how it's put together and how the whole thing works.

Lauren Sherman (73:53)

I know you have to go to dinner. There's two more things I want to talk to you about. Duran Lantic.

Alistair McKim (73:57)

Yes. I'm glad you said that, because I'm so happy for him.

Lauren Sherman (73:59)

How'd you feel? I loved it. I thought it was really.

Alistair McKim (74:02)

I mean, I loved it last season, so I wasn't. I loved the first season. I love. What I loved about it is that he didn't go into the archives, and he did. Like, I loved that. I was like, this is punk. This is what we want to do. If I was still at ID last season, I would have done a Gaultier special for days. Like, it was amazing. I loved it. It was so young.

Lauren Sherman (74:27)

That's interesting.

Alistair McKim (74:28)

And I just thought it was so brilliant. He was like, I am not going into the archive. And, like, So I kind of wish that he hadn't gone into the archive again. But I think, you know, it's sort of the pendulum swung from one extreme to the next, and I think it's going to settle. And there was still really amazing Duran ideas in there, and I just think he's absolutely brilliant. And I, I think like, that's, that's a young designer taking a house and like running with it and he's major. Like, that's kind of what I think.

Lauren Sherman (75:01)

Yeah. I, I did not like the first collection and was very annoyed by it. So I preferred this because it was more. The funny thing is like, I was with someone who works at a retailer and they were like, you think that was commercial? I was like, there are commercial ideas in there. You, you spin out the gingham pants and like you making them pants, like it's, it's easy to, to make.

Alistair McKim (75:22)

Yeah. And there was great that we were already trying to pull for the Oscars and stuff. Like, there's great stuff there. Like. Yeah. And there was a lot of good tailoring in the beginning of the show. There was like his great, you know, conceptual ideas and, you know. Yeah, it was really good.

Lauren Sherman (75:40)

His last show for his brand, I loved and everybody was focused on like the boobs and the chest and the rubber. Rubberized stuff. When the actual show was amazing.

Alistair McKim (75:53)

It was brilliant.

Lauren Sherman (75:54)

It was awesome.

Alistair McKim (75:55)

Yeah, I love that.

Lauren Sherman (75:56)

And he is, I feel like when you think of like ideas he has

Alistair McKim (76:04)

that, that's why he gets so much free press. Because we all want to photograph those clothes because they make a of couple exciting images. And that's why he's always got so much free press. And you know, he's been on every cover of every magazine and you know, every editorial since he started. Because stylists love that. It's like great things to photograph, you know.

Lauren Sherman (76:26)

Yeah. Final thing I wanted to ask you about. What do you think about first of all, Chanel. Interesting. It really layered on the first ready to wear. So there were a lot of looks that were very not the same but had similar ideas. Like maybe the waist was dropped further or it was in the same color or the same plaid but rendered in a different way or whatever.

Alistair McKim (76:53)

Like, I'm laughing that you're still talking about Chanel. I think you have a problem.

Lauren Sherman (76:57)

Well, I'm obsessed.

Alistair McKim (77:00)

You need to go to Chanel. A, Holics Anonymous.

Lauren Sherman (77:03)

Yeah. Yes, I do. I need to go to credit card debt. No, I'm just kidding. I take. I'm responsible. What do you. What do you think about how his proposal and the fact a two part question. Oh, what do you think about the proposal generally? And B, what do you think about this? Like insanity at the stores? Because it is really crazy.

Alistair McKim (77:27)

I am so like, I'll answer your two part question backwards. I am so happy about the insanity at this stores, because, like I was saying earlier, like, everything is. It's like Chanel is kind of like the brand that can lift the whole industry up. Right? It can pull the whole industry up. And if everybody's out shopping in a frenzy because of Chanel, it's good for our industry, and. And it's great. I went there today, and it's exciting. And, you know, the. Obviously, the. I think we call themselves fashion associates. The shop assistants are, like, over the moon because they're having a great time. Like, and they got another shipment in yesterday because it was Monday and today's Tuesday, and everything sold out over the weekend. And I'm so happy for him. He's a brilliant creative director and a brilliant designer and a brilliant person. So, yeah, I didn't think. I wasn't expecting a frenzy because I didn't even know that everything was launching this weekend or what. They timed everything so perfectly because they're just great at what they do. And. And it's amazing. And all the other stores felt a little quiet. I was out today at some shops, and, yeah, it's just like, wow. So, like, that's fashion, right? 1. One season it's a frenzy in one store, and the next season it's a frenzy in another. And, you know, and it's Chanel's moment, and he's brilliant. What was the other question?

Lauren Sherman (78:52)

The question was about, like, the sort of. The repetition thing. Yeah. Because the thing that's interesting to me is, like, as everyone who listens to this podcast knows, I got this jacket. It's very big deal for me that I got the jacket, blah, blah, blah. But the interesting thing, a friend of mine who was encouraging me to buy it was, like, showed me the photo he did of the same plaid that is in my jacket. Like, there was a. There was a black and white photo previewing this collection. And so this plaid is in. In the new collection, too, and, like, rendered in a fabric that I definitely will not be able to afford on any level. There was another jacket that I wanted, though, that I was like, maybe I should start collecting jackets.

Alistair McKim (79:37)

I think. I think they might give it to you for free because you're, like, promoting them so hard.

Lauren Sherman (79:42)

Never. No way. A. I don't. I don't accept gifts. They're not. They're not going to give it. I did. I did thank you to the Chanel team for providing a discount, because I really. I did want it very badly. And I think they were like, wow, this girl is. Is kind of like, this Big psychotic. No, they were so kind. And. And they're all. Yeah, they were. They were awesome. So appreciate. Appreciate it. But. But the point being that, like, there were just things that it felt like he mirrored it and. Which made the frenzy in the store more exciting. Like, I am not. I said to them, I'm like, I haven't bought a chanel item in 15 years. Like. And they were like, really?

Alistair McKim (80:23)

And.

Lauren Sherman (80:24)

And I said, no, I haven't. I bought. I have a black flap bag that I bought in 2010. Like, that's it. That's the only other thing I own. But. But the shoes and stuff look so amazing. And I was like, so much of what he did last night. You could sort of get a taste of this right now if you went in the store. And I thought it was brilliant. And also like that silhouette, that drop away silhouette, that's not gonna be an easy thing to get people to participate in. Or even like the way the double breasted jackets are cut, like, that's new for a lot of people. I was just curious, as an observer of this stuff, what you think about that repetition.

Alistair McKim (81:03)

I mean, I think, I think your job as a designer is to propose new silhouettes. So if they don't work, that's also okay. He's still proposing something. And he's proposing something that comes from the archive and comes from Coco, and It's like very 20s. And, you know, there was something cool about it visually, but like, yeah, nobody wants to have two foot high legs really. So, you know, it's not really like that easy a silhouette to wear. But. But you have to propose things as designers and you have to push and you have to try and you have to change the perspective and. And you also have to, you know, and maybe people will want really short legs and really long torsos if we do it enough, you know, like, that's the cool thing about it. But I think what he's so good at is understanding, like, culture as a whole rather than just fashion. You know, he's such a. Yeah. Such a genius person, you know, And I mean that and not like a. Oh, you're a genius fashion genius. He's like a really an intellectual, like, very well cultured person that really understands, you know, everything from art and culture and fashion and style and all those things. And also, like, how to make clothes and technique and craft and color and all of it, you know, And I think that's the success of it and to see on such a grand scale, you know, because I did wonder, like, how he was gonna, you know, his Bottega was so. Became so synonymous with him, how he was gonna do Matthew for Chanel. And then as soon as I saw the first show, I was like, well, that's how he does it. I was like, wow, this looks like he's doing Chanel and it's really worked and everybody's, like, mad for it. So I think it's amazing, and I think it's amazing that the, you know, now we're of the generation that we're the same generation as the designers that are in the big houses. And, you know, whether it's Jonathan or Anthony or Peter or Matthew, like, they're, you know, signs like.

Lauren Sherman (82:58)

Or my. Or Michael. Yeah, or Demna.

Alistair McKim (83:00)

Exactly.

Lauren Sherman (83:01)

They're all. We're all the. All the same age.

Alistair McKim (83:02)

And we've all come. We've all come up together. And it's so exciting that, like, they're leading the charge. I think that's a cool thing to be part of, you know?

Lauren Sherman (83:13)

Yeah, it feels great.

Alistair McKim (83:14)

Yeah.

Lauren Sherman (83:14)

All positives all around. And now you're leaving. The weather's going to go bad as soon as. As soon as you.

Alistair McKim (83:20)

And you're going to live in Par. Now you're French.

Lauren Sherman (83:22)

I'm gonna live in Paris. I'm gonna live in Paris, but I'll be in New York in May, so I'll see you, I'm sure.

Alistair McKim (83:27)

Definitely more to talk about.

Lauren Sherman (83:30)

Yeah. Alistair, congrats. I'm excited to hear more about your creative pursuits.

Alistair McKim (83:34)

Thank you.

Lauren Sherman (83:36)

Creative Studio magazine all. Any and all of it. You'll have to come back on when. When it launches in the fall.

Alistair McKim (83:44)

Yeah, September.

Lauren Sherman (83:45)

Let's do it to promo. And thank you for this. It was such a great conversation.

Alistair McKim (83:50)

Go. Great. Thanks, Laura.

Lauren Sherman (83:51)

We had such a good time.

Alistair McKim (83:53)

Keep us posted on everything that's happening.

Lauren Sherman (83:55)

I will.

Alistair McKim (83:56)

You better.

Lauren Sherman (83:56)

I will. I'll let you know as soon as I know who the Alaia designer is.

Alistair McKim (84:01)

Yes, please. We'll be tuned in.

Lauren Sherman (84:02)

I don't think they have someone yet. Yeah, we'll talk soon.

Alistair McKim (84:05)

Thank you.

Lauren Sherman (84:06)

Thank you. Enjoy dinner. Fashion, People, is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman.

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