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- [00:00]
A
You know, when your hair turns out just right and it kind of sets the tone for the whole day, I feel like we're all chasing that, but none of us want to spend an hour getting to that point. That's why I've been really, really into lawn chair lately. I switched over to their Axia hair dryer and the first thing I noticed was how compact and lightweight it is. It just makes styling feel way more manageable, especially on those mornings when you're rushing but still want your hair to look put together. And I've been using their gloss shock treatment along with it, which has been such a nice addition for my super coarse, super curly, super frizzy hair. I'll spray it on damp hair, then blow dry and it just helps everything look smoother and more polished. Like that fresh from the salon kind of finish. But at home, which is extremely hard for me to get, it's been amazing. What's great is how these two work together. The heat from the dryer activates the treatment and you end up with soft, glossy hair in under 20 minutes. It's simple, it's quick, and it just fits into real life. I definitely recommend recommend it to anyone who wants an easy routine that still delivers super, super nice results. Go to launchhair.com and use code fashion to get 20% off your first order. That's L A N G E h a I r.com and use code FASHION for 20% off at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stor and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus Elle every year after the love hypothesis, Sterling point and more slow burns, second chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Hello and welcome to Fashion people. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Clutch fashion and beauty Memo line channel. And today with me on the show is Daytona Williams, editor in chief of Neptune Papers. We're talking fashion and design, the resort show wars, Phoebe Philo's media plan, and so much more. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you're having a great week. If you're in Biarritz for the Chanel show, hope you're having a wonderful time. Let me know how it is. I've got some text chains going on, but I I want to hear from the sand floor. I'm heading to New York tomorrow for some puck stuff and hope to catch you at one event or another this week in line sheet We've got some Phoebe Philo intel, some Chanel intel. And Malik Morris is back with a big story on what's going on at Adidas, or as we say in. In America, Adidas. Rachel Sugatz also has a fun scoop for Wednesday that you will have to subscribe to. Until then, let's get going with Daytona. Daytona Williams, welcome to Fashion People.
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B
Hi, Lauren. Thank you for having me.
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A
Where are you calling me from? It looks beautiful.
- [03:11]
B
So I am actually calling from Saint Tropez. Very glamorous. My husband's parents live here, so we just came down last night for 10 days for a little post salone Brain restaurant.
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A
Are you gonna go to the Chanel show tomorrow? I don't know how close. Beer. It's in central. They are.
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B
Unfortunately, it's the other side of the country, so it's a bit far away, but.
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A
Wow. I sound like a real idiot.
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B
Yeah. But we'll definitely have FOMO of not being there.
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A
I know. It looks so pretty. I'm. I also have a lot of fomo. But you can't. You can't do it.
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B
You can't do it all. No. Have you been to beards before?
- [03:46]
A
No, obviously not. I have been to. I haven't been to St. Tropez. I've been to Cannes, though.
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B
Yeah. It's not far, but they just started the White Lotus filming here, so I'm on the lookout. I heard Helena Bohmkarten's role got cut, so trying to see who they were placing her with. Yeah.
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A
How dare they?
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B
Yeah. So I haven't spotted anyone yet.
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A
Okay, well, keep an eye out. I'm happy to see you. I saw you briefly last week at. At Gilsone.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yes.
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B
Was this your first salone?
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A
It was.
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B
What did you think?
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A
I've talked about it so much on here. I think people are gonna be like, shut up.
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B
Yeah. But even. Yeah. I'm sick of thinking about it.
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A
I was very overwhelmed. I think. One thing is we did a dinner and it was lovely and I'm so glad I did. I wanna hear about the event that you did. Cause it sounded really lovely too. We had an amazing dinner at this restaurant, Sandy, that I really love. We had an amazing wine. Everybody who showed up, like a mix of good friends of mine, people I really admire. Like, it was an amazing list of people, a lot of people who are friends. So the tables, there were a bunch of different tables, but then people could talk. Sh. We did it with Shopmai, who I have mad respect for. We write about a lot on the site. But they are also just amazing to work on these dinners with. And it was just. And I loved my outfit. It was the perfect night.
- [05:14]
B
Yeah, that's wearing Versace.
- [05:15]
A
No, I was wearing a Dario Versace. It looked major suit that I love so much. I'm going to try to wear again in New York next week. But so it was perfect night. And I'd say overall, like the trip was amazing from a shopping perspective. Like I went to shop the story and I got some bags and I got a beautiful Miu Miu dress. I went to Vera Persiani and got a slip for the first time and some silk pajamas.
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B
Like Major.
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A
Yeah, it was such like. That was nice. I saw a bunch of people that I haven't seen in forever and got to like sit down and have coffees with people and lunch with people that I wouldn't have had time for. I would say from a. It's a. First of all, it's a party central. So you have to be like ready to really go out. And then also I just didn't feel like I had enough time to do everything. Like I wanted to come to your event and I just. It was like I went on Monday night, I went to Gucci and I went to the Hermes dinner. I was supposed to go to another dinner. I had to cancel cause I had to go work and.
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B
No, but there was so much going on. Even ours. I had to leave my event before the end to go to the Ralph Lauren dinner also. It's like.
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A
Yes, exactly.
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B
It's like a double edged sword. It's like, do we do something and then not have a presence even though we are a design magazine? Or do we do something and know that three other people are doing something the same evening? You know, I think what's nice with Salone versus Fashion week is people will pop by. Like we had a great group of American interior designers. We had a great press, blah, blah. They stopped by 30 minutes for a drink and they go on to something else, you know.
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A
Yeah. And yours was at the new.
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B
The Giacomo space. Yeah.
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A
So basically. So is it a new bar that they're doing?
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B
Yeah.
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A
And explain what this like restaurant group is for people who aren't familiar.
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B
Giacomo is a melanese restaurant group that I think is about 100 years old and it's really like a family owned trattoria. So you have two spaces? Well, it was family owned. It just got bored about a year ago. So it's like a historical Milanese trattoria. And then on the corner it's fish based. And then you have the bistro. And then down the block, you have the rotisseria, which is like they do a great roast chicken salad with some potatoes and some green beans. And then across the street, they bought what's called the Taba Courier. So it's like a tiny little bar that's painted. I call it mushy pea, the color inside. But it's really beautiful. So they invited us to do a cocktail there. Last year, we had taken over the oldest gelato in store in Milan and done gelato and champagne for the evening, which was lovely. But again, the night that we did it, Wall Street Journal doing something. Elle Decor were doing something. So you just have to throw your hat in the.
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A
He was that night too. It was a lot. But yeah, but I'm sad that I missed yours, especially because it was at that new space that I haven't been to. But yeah, I think, like, I wrote a little thing on Tuesday. There's an opportunity for any brand, that media brand that has some sort of design world adjacency. Or for me, it was. We do these dinners with fashion industry insiders. And there were a couple design world people, too, that friends helped me sort of say who would be interested in meeting more fashion industry people. But I thought for me, it was like a good moment to. Those people are invited to dinners and things, but maybe just like, see some of their friends.
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B
Totally.
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A
But yeah, tell me more. Let's talk more now about Neptune. And you've been doing it for several years now, but what has it turned into? And where do you feel like it fits in the interior's conversation? Because our friend Alice Kavanaugh just wrote a great piece for the Times. I believe that I think Neptune was in. Right?
- [09:00]
B
Yeah, totally. So Neptune was actually my Covid project to start off with. I used to be in charge of women's web buying for department store in Paris. When gallery Lafayette opened their outpost in the Champs Elysees, which is in seven or eight years ago now. And then there was a great job. Loved it. But then, obviously during the pandemic, a department store was the crazy place to work. So I thought, you know, what if it's the end of the world? I have to do a magazine. I've wanted to do a magazine since I'm like 3 years old. I grew up watching. I mean, very timely, but like Devil West, Prada, Ugly Betty. 13 on 30.
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A
Shout out to 13. Going on 30.
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B
I love it, actually, you know, I have it on my phone. And yeah, I love to Watch it on a plane. It's just such a comfort movie. But, yeah, so I started the first issue during the pandemic. Took about. Didn't tell anybody I was doing it. I thought it was so cringe and embarrassing. I had Major imposter. But the first issue, we had a profile of Vanessa Friedman. We had Eli from erl, we had Simone Rocha. The first one was much more fashion adjacent because that was my background. And then slowly, it really steered into this interiors art with a touch of fashion. And a lot of the interiors we do are fashion adjacent. For example, one of our covers for a new issue that's launching in two weeks, one of our covers is Martin Brulee, who's the interior design. He's actually designing the set for the Chanel show that's happening tomorrow. And he designed. He created a show for Alaia in New York with these Andy Warhol Polaroids. He did the set for the Vanity Fair Oscar party and the red carpet also. So he's like, very fashion Jason. And now. So, yeah, so this is issue 10 that we're bringing out, and they've been getting bigger and bigger. So our new issue is 468 pages, which is about 1.5 kilos. But what's been really great is that I think now we're really in this space where, as you said, interiors brands and fashion brands are converging. You know, So I think now we have this consumer slowdown on the fashion market for a lot of brands. So I think they're kind of saying, how do we engage with a new type of customer that's outside of the fashion world? And if for someone, it's no problem to spend €100,000 on a couch, ultimately it's. They can buy a muumu bag for nothing. You know what I mean? So, yeah, there's this thing of all these brands are now looking to develop their art world audience, their interiors audience. So I think we are Lucky Touchwood. We're at a great kind of convergence of these two worlds, you know?
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A
Yeah, it's interesting because there's also Kelsey, Keith and I were talking about this on the sort of very design last Monday's episode, which was very Design Week focused. But there's, like, this hollowing out of the middle everywhere. And so there's also. Kelsey works at. At Miller Knoll, which has, like, design within reach. And in America at least, like, people are either spending, like you said, 100 grand on a couch, or they're kind of cringing at spending 10 grand.
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B
Totally. Yeah.
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A
And so it's like you have room and board or you have custom, and there's not really any. There aren't that many people willing to spend in between on like a Borelec rug or whatever, like my family does. But I think, like, it makes a lot of sense for the fashion brands. And looking back on Friday, I wrote about this and I had some people message about it, but I felt like the. The fashion brands that really succeed there are the ones that are doing stuff that feels really germane to design. And it doesn't necessarily mean like, of course Prada, Miu Miu are good at it. They, they are good at thinking and they are the center of Milan in so many ways. So the fact that they both had two sets of different kind of series of conversations, like, I wish I could have just gone to those for five days.
- [12:48]
B
Totally.
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A
And not. And then also there was something that Michael Bargo did with Yves Solomon that.
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B
I
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A
mean, can you talk about it a little bit? Because I thought that was amazing. And. And I didn't go because I was like, well, this is going to be random. And then it was actually amazing.
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B
Yeah, it was major. So Yves Saint Amour, for those who don't know, is a historical fur company based out of Paris that's about 100 years old now. I think it's a third gener generation of the family. And as you can imagine, the fur business has kind of went down the toilet. So they think they started, I think maybe three years ago now. How can they reposition themselves? They had started a few years ago, this line called army, which was supposed to be like parkers and outerwear that didn't really go anywhere.
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A
Well, I did own one and buy one and sold it for a profit at some point. They gifted them and I bought it. But then they went up in price so much that I was able to sell it for a profit like five years later. It was an amazing. Okay, that's a good, amazing journey. Yes.
- [13:47]
B
Yeah. But so Michael, this year they invited. Last year they did with an illustrator in Paris called Pierre Marie, who actually does a lot of illustrations for Hermes scarves. And then he has his own practice on the side. And this year they invited Michael to come and reinvent kind of the American quilt, the American blanket, but in fur. So you had these amazing red and black patchwork chinchilla, I think it is, blankets. He reimagined Frank Lloyd Wright chairs in fur also. And that was really. That was one of the highlights of Milan. He also did a party on the Monday night In the apartment it was presented in. But the police showed up after like, 30 minutes and. And shut it down. Yeah, that was the. Every. On Monday, everyone's saying, oh, are you going to Michael's later? Are you going to Michael's? We were wrapping up dinner and we were getting text messages. The cops just showed up. They kicked everyone out. Because it was also. The apartment that they did it in was designed by one of the students of Gio Ponti in a very residential neighborhood. I think everyone in the building is like 95 years old. So we're thinking, who are all these Americans coming in and speaking too loud?
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A
Now I'm feeling extreme fomo.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I didn't go to anything on. I went to the. Again. I went to the Saramez dinner, and then I was like, I have so much work, I cannot go out. There were like seven parties I wanted to go to.
- [15:02]
B
The thing is, with Desolone, you're always going to have FOMO about something. Did you go to the Laura Piano presentation?
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A
I did. I thought that was.
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B
That was really beautiful. Yeah, that was really beautiful. And. And also the. The first ones when you came in that were like, little people skiing and stuff like that. Very fresh. I thought it was.
- [15:19]
A
Yeah. I went to. Everybody's heard this already, but I went to the d' Amore Studio, their furniture line. They had their furniture in that old apartment. Is it Orsani Borsan? Yeah, whatever. I've talked about this a million times anyway, so.
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B
Honestly, so have I.
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A
So it's so it. But it was amazing. And I also went and I went to the Triennale and went to see the Bronzy exhibit, and that was amazing. So I got to see some cool stuff. I think next time I will. I came a little early. I think I'll. I'll come on Sunday next time and stay the whole week and then be able to go to exhibitions and stuff on Thursday and Friday when it chills out, that's gonna go. But honestly, it was. It's. I was just talking to a French fashion journalist about it today, and she was like, should I have gone? I said, sort of. But there wasn't. There wasn't like, a lot of chatter about the fashion industry, which I was surprised by. I kept asking other. I was like, what are people talking about? They're like, not. Not anything you want to hear. Not worry who's buying Giorgio Armani?
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B
No, completely. People want to speak about. Like, that's the thing. Also, I went to Salerno from Sunday to Wednesday. By Wednesday, I was Happy to get out of there. You see people, you're like, oh, so when did you get in? How long are you staying? I don't care, to be honest, but it's that small talk that you get into. I think salon is fab, but it's also every year I'm like, do I ever need to go back again? Who knows?
- [16:46]
A
Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. Ready to soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer All Day Play. You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com brightsummer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that. More dangerous than a B or a C life? Because when you're living a B or B life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming you. People think, okay, an A life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming youg wherever you get your podcasts. Now we're moving on. And tomorrow is the Chanel Show. Well, Tuesday, today, because this is gonna publish on Tuesday is the Chanel show. And then the Met is like in five days. It's just there's a lot. I'm leaving on Wednesday for New York for we're doing some dinners around Met time and all that stuff.
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B
And there's also the Gucci show next year, next week.
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A
You know, it's. It's after. It's the 17th or so. I'm not staying. I'm coming back. There's basically, there is Met and then Dior, I think is the 13th, and then Gucci and then Louis Vuitton.
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B
But there's also Max Mora in Shanghai or something.
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A
Oh, my God. And maybe Dior is the. I don't remember. It's too many things. But no, I'm not going to anything. I'm gonna go to Hermes in June because it's in la and I would like to go home and get some stuff in my house. But I. The thing is, and I'm curious what you think. It's very interesting because I've never. Every once in a while I'll go to a resort show. I don't accept Press trips. So, like, if I go, we pay for it. I usually stay at a hotel nearby or, like, get the rate that the brand has at the hotel, and I pay for my own flight and all that stuff if there's, like, a news element. So when Sabado Desarno did the London show, I went because I was like, I can do a bunch of meetings around this. I haven't been to London in forever. And this is his first resort show. And it was so precarious. I feel like I could make an excuse to go to every single one of these shows other than Louis Vuitton, even Biarritz.
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B
I don't know what meeting you would do in Biarritz, but you could speak to someone.
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A
Well, I mean, it would. Just to be at the show, because it's Matthieu's first resort, and it's gonna be major.
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B
Yeah, that I have major fomo. It's gonna be so major.
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A
And the same thing with Jonathan at lacma.
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B
Like, yeah, that's gonna be.
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A
It's really important. LACMA is really gonn a. It's so.
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B
But have you seen photos of those new galleries? Yes, it looks beautiful.
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A
It looks amazing. And I've heard nothing but, you know. And I'm a huge fan of Michael Govan and Catherine Ross, so who is maybe the most. Catherine is maybe the most mentioned person on Fashion People. She really needs to come on. But. But the point being that, like, these are not shows that should be reviewed. Like, these are. Fritzi, I'm on a call. You need to leave. These are not shows that should be reviewed. They should be. They're just. They're commercial shows for clients and content. These are gonna be. They are going to be picked apart in the Internet. I'm just curious what you think about that as. As a person who was a buyer for a long time and a, you know, a customer in. In a way. And then also now. Fritzi, you need to leave. Fritzi, now. Out. Sorry. My kid is. It's like, here. These shows are gonna be picked apart on the Internet, and I'm not looking forward to it. And look, these are all. Maybe not Hermes, and maybe Nadej is gonna. It will be. You know, no one's gonna be, like, dissecting each of her collections. Although her couture is coming up, and she's. There's gonna be a spotlight on her. But Chanel and Dior Vuitton a little less. But also, everybody's like, how much longer is Nicola gonna be there? All that stuff. So I'm just curious, like, from your perch as a magazine editor and as someone who took these in from a buyer's perspective for a long time, what do you think of, like, the fact that these are now as big of events as, like, the Ready to Wear and Couture?
- [21:41]
B
Well, you know, I think I actually, I think you've said it in your newsletter how Mathieu's last show didn't translate in photos and didn't translate online. The fabrics, the materials, the embroidery. And I think that is the thing. It's like, I mean, even I see it when I do the layout for the magazine also. So I'm looking at something on my screen brightness full blast. And then you see it in person, in print, and it looks so different, you know, And I think that that's the same thing with these collections. We're seeing everything through a screen. And then when you see them, you're like, oh, I actually didn't realize it was trompe l' oeil embroideries. I didn't realize it was this. And I think we've now got into this thing. It's like, I think it's great that everybody has an opinion, but not every opinion is valid. You know what I mean? Maybe that's not. Maybe not the right way to say it, but, you know, it's like, I think that everything gets ripped apart online, straight away. Even, for example, the New Devil, West Prada. I must have seen 47 different trailers for this film before it came out. I don't even want to see it anymore. You know, and even the. I just think there's so much stuff.
- [22:39]
A
Dreading it.
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B
Dreading it. I am actually.
- [22:41]
A
I'm not gonna go see it.
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B
I'm gonna go see it. I just have to. I, like, I just feel as though I owe it to, like, my 14 year old self to go see it.
- [22:49]
A
I was not into that movie. Like, no offense to anybody involved, I think it's a good movie. I just did not care at the time. And I was much more into 13 going on 30.
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B
Yeah, I mean, that is the OG but.
- [23:02]
A
Well, it also is extremely real. It feels extremely realistic in its own way too.
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B
But. But no, for the, for the resort collections, I mean, I think for me, it's like, for example, Jonathan's Dior took a minute to grow on me, and then I saw it in person and I was like, okay, I get it. You know, I get the pleating, I get the embroidery. I get this. And for example, Demna's Gucci. I didn't I did not get that collection. It's not my vibe, it's not my aesthetic. I haven't seen it in person yet. But I just think that the show now for a brand, they get so much content out of a show, they get so much peripheral aura out of it that everything has became so big that it's kind of. How do you then differentiate the couture, the ready to wear, the pre collections? What is the main attraction? If everything's the main attraction, what actually is?
- [23:51]
A
Yeah, it's a really good question. And yeah, over the last couple of seasons, there have been times when Chanel looked better in person and not as good online and looked better online and not as, you know, and Dior. Same thing. Like, I thought that the Dior couture looked amazing in photos. I thought that the Dior, the recent Dior ready wear looked amazing in person. Like, the Dior Couture looked amazing in person too, but like really popped in photos. So you do need that thing. I, I think it's good that people are such enthusiasts and especially consumers of this stuff are just obsessed with it and they want to talk about it. And that's exciting, but it can be a little overwhelming and exhausting.
- [24:32]
B
There is. I'm also, I'm a big TikTok user. I love TikTok. But there's one comment that comes back all the time that I see on, on Fash and it says, this looks like Zara. This could be Zara. And they always use that as an example. And it's like, did you guys go into like a Chanel store, Dior store, 15 years ago? This was. This is what it was. People always say like, oh, like, rip Karl, bring back Carl. I love Karl. A lot of Carl shows were a train wreck. You know what I mean? Not everything was the gag that people think it is with nostalgia. I love what Mathieu is doing. And I don't think that every single outfit and every single piece needs to be the statement of the year. You know, it's like you look at a brand like Alexander McQueen where they're really trying to go and the commerciality is not necessarily there. That business is going nowhere. You know what I mean? Not everything can be made for Instagram and not everything can be made for TikTok. Not everything is made to be consumed. VR screen as like a gaggy moment. You tell yourself no one wants your college era band tees, but on Depop, people are searching for exactly what you've got. You once paid a small fortune for them. At merch stands. Now a teenager who calls them vintage will offer that same small fortune back. Sell them easily on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. Who knew your questionable music taste would be a money making machine? Your style can make you cash. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste.
- [26:04]
A
Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho. Look for that rooftop dinner. Those sandals that can keep up with you. And hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling, Ross. Work your magic. Let's talk about someone who doesn't show at Fashion Week. At least not yet. Phoebe Filo. So I have a piece in Monday's issue about she is launching a shop and shop at Bloomingdale's, which I think is super interesting.
- [26:37]
B
Huge gap for Bloomingdale's.
- [26:39]
A
Huge get. Congrats.
- [26:41]
B
Congrats to them.
- [26:42]
A
Yeah, I heard this like six months ago and they did it. And wow. Like, it's really amazing. And basically the pieces about like her distribution strategy, but also about her media strategy. So last week someone in that world was like, did you see our advertisement in the erotic review? And I was like, actually I did because Max Wigram, Phoebe's business partner and husband and whatever, you know, he posted a bunch of stuff and I thought, oh, that's really interesting. I didn't know anything about the erotic review. Shockingly, yeah. Since I'm such a big fan of Phil Picardi's Playboy. But someone sent it to me and it's. It's a literary, an arts journal about sex. But like in a very tasteful way and, and very modern, like postmodern or whatever. I thought it's really interesting. I would buy it. Like I buy magazines all the time.
- [27:41]
B
Yeah.
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A
But the advertising that they did is incredible. So it's like the latest campaign, you know, the girl on the bike and that kind of scene from the recent drop that's already out, but it's like a pull out and it's essentially the centerfold. And there's a poster that I have. Did we hang it up yet? Oh, here, I'm just gonna grab it.
- [28:03]
B
That's really cool.
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A
So it's like a centerfold and they were the only. I love it. They were the only advertising partner. I don't know what else they advertised and I know they are in Double magazine, but she's has a relationship with the editor in chief of Double. So like, that makes sense.
- [28:18]
B
I know that Dublo was the first that they advertised in the first that they'd advertised in. But it's kind of like in the 90s, how Milan used to advertise in National Geographic. And I think that it's a very cool. I mean one. It's a communication opportunity because then people speak about it. But I think it's major that they did that. It's kind of like how the row also, the row now this season, I'm sure you might have seen it, but they're really rolling out, quote, unquote advertising strategies. So they were in Emily Mole T Magazine, Financial Times. I saw them somewhere else also. So they've really kind of stepped it up. But before, the rogue would also just advertise in very niche publications. And I think that the fact that Phoebe, she sponsored this show with Peter Doig in London a few months ago, I think that that's such a smart way of her to do it. Because even though everybody speaks Vogue definitely is still part of the conversation in the going ons of the magazine. The actual content itself, people. I don't know, I don't know if someone who's going out and buying a Phoebe filer jacket is going out and saying, I saw this in Vogue, so I want to buy it.
- [29:27]
A
No, they're definitely not reading Vogue completely. No offense to anyone. It's not like. But it was interesting. I went to this Peter Doig show here in Paris at the.
- [29:39]
B
The Corbusier house. No.
- [29:41]
A
Yes. Yeah, yeah. And there was a woman and had to tow Phoebe. And I was like, I wonder if she got like, who she's connected to. That definitely worked either for Peter Doig or for the house or whatever it was. It was interesting. But yeah, and I was really sad to miss that show. Like, it was just. I tried to go, like, I tried to figure out a trip to London to be able to go, but I thought it was. And they did it. It was the Serpentine. I thought it was really smart. But yeah, it's like. Like you're doing really well. But it's an interesting mix of. Let's distribute. They don't have a physical retail yet. They will soon, but let's distribute as much as we can to get it to as many people. But then when we do media, a let's use our own platform. So her images are shared everywhere. Like, it's just. It's wild how well they've utilized Instagram. And then on the other hand, they're doing these like tiny little magazines. And I mean, double obviously, obviously is extremely influential in the fashion world. But, you know, this or the erotic review. It's. It's like I had never heard of it.
- [30:52]
B
But I think it's so smart because you're seeing all of these also these big major brands who have tried the advertising in every magazine, working with every digital talent, working with every influencer and they're stretching the budget. Stretching the budget. And ultimately, what is that actually bringing? You know, there's no real way to quantify a. If you work with someone who has 10 million followers, how many of those followers do you think are actually going to go out and buy a YSL dress? You know what I mean? And now I think it's cooler to use that budget as more of a real image and statement when, as you said, she has such a great use of her own Instagram. All of the photos are great, her content is great, the newsletters are great. I was at the. They have a corner at Galile in Paris. I was there not long ago. I just think she's doing everything so well.
- [31:36]
A
Fat.
- [31:37]
B
It's so good, so fab.
- [31:38]
A
It blows everyone else on that floor.
- [31:40]
B
Totally.
- [31:41]
A
I'm sorry. But like she hired people who used to work at. Some of them, used to work at Celine, like with her.
- [31:48]
B
Yeah.
- [31:48]
A
It feels like you're in one of her shops again. I was talking to someone who's connected to that, the brand, and they were like, does it bother you that it's in the middle of the store? I was like, no, no.
- [31:59]
B
And it almost makes it cooler.
- [32:01]
A
Yeah. And people are really shopping it. And I went in to look at the runners, the sandal that I'm definitely getting in. Every woman in the. The tri. Tri country area will be getting. And they were sold out. And then, I don't know, it's just, it's. I think it's being done in a really good, nice way. I know. I'm sure it's tough and it's a startup still and stuff costs a lot of money, but I think, I think they're brilliant.
- [32:27]
B
Yeah. And I think we're also at a place where the luxury market is in such a weird place that it's cool, I think, for people to try new things, you know, to try. There's a thing. If people are doing the same playbook again and again and again, no wonder certain groups are down 50%. You know what I mean? It's like, I think it's cool to try new things. And also bigger isn't always better, you know, it's totally. I think it's cool to scale at your own pace rather than Sell your soul to the devil. Open 12 locations. I mean, it comes back to the question of like Alaia with Peter. If everything is dependent on the tackle and the crochet ballet flat, what happens next? You know, that's what I think is cool with, with Phoebe, is that she's doing things at her own rate. And the clothes are pricey, especially compared to a lot of other stuff. But people are obsessed. You know, there's girls that I know who wear head to toe and they are, they don't mind paying $12,000 for a T shirt. You know, I.
- [33:21]
A
Well, to be honest, and let's, let's be clear, it's actually pretty well priced compared to a lot of stores.
- [33:28]
B
Compared to a lot of like a
- [33:29]
A
T shirt is like 400. In truth, a T shirt is like €400. Ballet flats, €650. Trousers, €1,000. That is actually kind of reasonable. Reasonable, not affordable, but reasonable.
- [33:44]
B
When you think of a brand like Prada. I know, like when I was younger, every season I would buy the Prada shirt with kind of the print of the season where there was like the little 50s car collection, stuff like that. They used to be around 380, €400. You go into the Prada store now, the shirt will be 1400, 1600. For what? You know what I mean? The quality is not that good. I don't know. I just think that the price of so many things have gone so extortionate that that's actually why I think a lot of people are now investing in interiors and in objects. Because if you can buy a jacket for the same price as a couch, what is the difference, you know?
- [34:20]
A
Yeah. Speaking of interiors, let's, let's discuss the, the new issue. Tell me about it. What, what can people expect? When is it on newsstands? Is it already on newsstands? Tell me everything.
- [34:31]
B
So this new issue is our issue 10, so five year anniversary. And I kind of wanted to mark the occasion. So we dedicated the issue to the notion of icons. So new icons, established icons, perhaps forgotten icons. So for example, we did this first time, we did six covers, three fashion partnerships, and then three interiors covers. And for our fashion partnerships, for example, we did Lauren Hartne, which is the established icon, Malgosia Bella, who's the new icon. And then we did a project with the robe, with this very new face male model, who's great, Jesse, who has a beautiful raspberry color birthmark on his face. And it's this idea of. In the us I always describe it as uptown Downtown, a real mix of layers and different points of view. So with the magazine, what we try to do is all of our stories are at least 16 to 18 pages. We put a big focus on words. We work with writers from the New Yorker, Financial Times, New York Times, because I think since we are just twice a year and there's a lot of stories that are too newsy and timely for us, so we put a big focus on telling people stories. You know, that's what I think is interesting. And I also think, and this is a problem that I find with a lot of magazines, a lot of magazines forget that people are smart, people are not stupid. You know, people want to learn something, they want to read something, and they actually want to take time to sit down, read something, pick it back up, put it back down. So this is our 10th issue. We have a great story that we shot exclusively with the Donald Judd foundation in Marfa. They're closing the Donald Judd Architecture Studio for seven years for restoration. So we photographed that in Texas. And then we've layered that in the layout right next to a story with Jacques Garcia, who's this very flamboyant, camp French interior designer. Everything looks like he came out of the, like Marie Antoinette's closet. It's very layered. And then we have Lauren Hart. And so it's always this idea of contrasting points of views and contrasting opinions that when you put them all together, it kind of contextualizes everybody. You can have someone like, I don't know, this issue we have, we have this great gallerist called Angela Westwater, who just closed her gallery in December after 50 years. And we photographed her home, which was designed by Jed Johnson. It was the last project that he did before he passed away in the early 90s. And she has a huge site, Trembly. She has two silk screens of the Queen of England that are facing each other above her fireplace. And she's a very well known name in the art world, but we'll have her. And then next year we'll have two very emerging interior designers who work together in Paris. And again, it's this thing of contrasting and putting kind of everybody at the same table, you know, everybody at the same table. And allowing those to dialogue with each
- [37:18]
A
other so well, I can't wait to see it. And a huge shout out to Alexandra Cunningham Cameron, who just became the director of design at the Judd Foundation.
- [37:29]
B
Wow, isn't that cool?
- [37:31]
A
Yeah, like in the last week, because she told me at the Hermes show and it was announced this week. Yeah, they've Never had that role. And also I'm a huge fan of hers. Anyone who got to see. I've been obsessed with her since her Willie Smith exhibit at the Cooper Hewitt.
- [37:50]
B
I know that's major for her because she's amazing. They're also now the Donald Judd Foundation. They were very tight lipped on communication. They didn't really do much. And now I know they're opening those gates a little bit. They just did a beautiful dinner in partnership with Kate, actually.
- [38:05]
A
I saw that.
- [38:07]
B
That looks really cool.
- [38:08]
A
I went there once when they had like they had an Agnes Martin. They were doing when the Agnes Martin Donald was there an Agnes Martin Donald Jones judge show at the Guggenheim or something?
- [38:20]
B
I think so, yeah.
- [38:21]
A
Long time ago they had a dinner with, I want to say Kas and I like almost broke a piece of art. That's why they don't have dinners at that place. And it's really amazing.
- [38:31]
B
Everything is so beautiful. But since it's all like in situ. No, but it's great. So. And now they're really. Yeah, I know they're doing something with another fashion brand in the coming months, but it's a beautiful location. Yeah.
- [38:43]
A
I hope if I'm in New York, invite me. Whoever it is. Daytona. This was so fun. I hope to see you around Paris soon and congrats on everything and I can't wait to see the new issue and enjoy your holiday.
- [38:55]
B
Thank you so much for having me and speak to you very soon.
- [38:59]
A
Talk soon.
- [38:59]
B
Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye.
- [39:03]
A
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Newton agent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett and director of editorial operations Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabad.