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You know, when your hair turns out just right and it kind of sets the tone for the whole day. I feel like we're all chasing that, but none of us want to spend an hour getting to that point. That's why I've been really, really into lawn chair lately. I switched over to their Axia hair dryer and the first thing I noticed was how compact and lightweight it is. It just makes styling feel way more manageable, especially on those mornings when you're rushing but still want your hair to look put together. And I've been using their gloss shock treatment along with it, which has been such a nice addition for my super coarse, super curly, super frizzy hair. I'll spray it on damp hair, then blow dry and it just helps everything look smoother and more polished like that fresh from the salon kind of finish. But at home, which is extremely hard for me to get, it's been amazing. What's great is how these two work together. The heat from the dryer activates the treatment and you end up with soft, glossy hair in under 20 minutes. It's simple, it's quick and it just fits into real life. I definitely recommend recommend it to anyone who wants an easy routine that still delivers super, super nice results. Go to launchhair.com and use code fashion to get 20% off your first order. That's L A N G E h a I r.com and use code FASHION for 20% off at checkout.
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home and auto policies, the process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
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Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Pucks fashion and Beauty Memo line sheet. And today with me on the show is our very own correspondent, Malik Morris. We're here talking Shein's purchase of Everlane, the Gucci and Dior cruise shows, Victoria's Secret's latest battle and plenty more. Happy Tuesday everyone. Hope you are having a great week. Last week was pretty nuts for me. It was my kid's birthday. Then I went to London. I had tons of reporting. Then I did a bunch of other stuff. And then right after my kid's birthday party in a Rainy park. I got a tip that Everlane had sold to Sheehan. It was crazy. This week in Line sheet, you can read more about that. More about the Marc Jacobs sale to whp. Got some numbers for you. As well as Malik's report on Victoria's Secret that we talk about a bit on the episode. Also hearing that Darya Vitaly's next move could be announced pretty soon. So maybe I'll get into that later on this week or next week. If you know anything, call me. And of course, you'll find my take on the Gucci show and all that stuff. I'm going to Disneyland in Paris tomorrow, so wish me luck and let's get going on the week. Malik Morris, welcome to Fashion People.
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B
Thank you. Lauren Sherman. I'm so excited to be here.
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A
And welcome to Puck. How long has it been now? A month?
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B
Almost three months. But it feels like it's been like a year. I know. It's going. Oh, my God.
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A
That's hilarious.
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B
Yeah.
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A
How could it be three months?
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B
I know. I know. Time flies when you're having fun. Literally.
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A
It's true. We're having so much fun. So I wanted to talk to you today about a bunch of stuff, but I think the first thing we need to discuss is this Everlane Sheehan News.
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B
Wild, wild stuff. I mean, this is why you are who you are. But that scoop was crazy. Crazy.
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A
Look, if you. It's not. Honestly, it's just because I'm old, I promise you.
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B
You always say that. You always say that.
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A
It is. I am literally the only one. Who else would they tell? Who else cares except for me and you? I'm curious here, so. So just to give everybody, like, a little bit of a background, on Sunday, I learned that on Saturday, the board of Ever Lane approved a deal to sell to Sheehan, the Chinese Ultra Fast. Well, they're based in Singapore now, but the Ultra Fast fashion group for $100 million valuation. I don't know what the actual terms of the deal are. Are. I pretty sure no one got any cash. Maybe Alcadderton got a little. But given all the debt, my guess is that no one got cash. A few people got cash when they sold a majority stake to Alcadderton. So condolences to anyone who was an investor and didn't make any money on Everlane. But I'm curious to hear. There's. Obviously. We posted a story on Sunday, and I have a bigger piece on Monday. Kind of going through a bunch of stuff, and I'm still working on reporting, so there will be stuff in there if, if you're one of those stingy people who doesn't subscribe to line sheet yet, there will be stuff in there that we don't talk about today because I'm still in the middle of reporting. But I'm curious to hear because you also have a lot of sources at Everlane and someone I talking to was actually like I talked to Malik all the time. So I'm curious what you've heard, like what people have been saying to you since the news broke.
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B
Well, I haven't gotten a deluge yet. I too am still waiting to hear from people to see how they feel about this. But it's really interesting that it's come to this. I mean you, you're the one who breaks all these news. But like I instantly thought about like Parade and when they sold, obviously it was on a much smaller scale, but like the fact that there was no money made in that deal and then obviously, you know, you had the far fetched thing a couple, a couple years ago. But with Everlane, I've been, you know, kind of looking at all the reactions and it really was sort of a bastion of a certain kind of brand for a certain kind of generation. But the trouble that they've been having in recent years to me really kind of echoes just problems across the industry, which is like, what does it mean to like build a brand today? Especially when you were just a product proposition and then people needed you to be have a clear brand identity and you're doing it sort of after the fact, like can you ever get to that place? And obviously we saw the same thing happen with Allbirds when they were just the ugly shoe of Silicon Valley. And they also tried to get into the brand building mechanism and we saw how that ended. So it's just so fascinating to see it come to this conclusion. Like obviously Everlane is not shuddering, it's just being sold to Shein. But it goes so against their proposition originally that I'm already seeing people online saying I'm never gonna buy Everlane ever again. So it's just such an insane conclusion.
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A
And Everlane is a pretty big business. I don't know if this year they'll do this much, but they were doing like almost $400 million in sales a year. So I don't know if that's what the situation is now, but they were getting up there. I think it's an interesting one because I, I sort of came up with all these direct to consumer brands like Everlane Glossier Reformation, which is definitely the most successful out of all of them. And. And I think there are particular reasons why Reformation worked so well for so long. But when Everlane launched, their whole proposition was like, it wasn't even about sustainability. And that word gets tossed around a lot. It's so meaningless. But it was really about like being honest. So, like, we're gonna be honest about how much it costs to make this shirt. We're gonna be honest about the factories that we made it in. We're gonna be honest about the margin that we're making on selling it to you. And then there was this whole thing with the direct to consumer rise of brands that they talked a lot about, like cutting out the middle man, even though Gap had done that 40 years ago. And other Victoria's Secret, which we're gonna talk about later. Other specialty retailers. The thing I liked about Everlane and I always sort of bristled at the radical transparency stuff. And not because I didn't believe them and I wrote this today, we'll see how it gets edited. But I 100% believed Michael, the founder and the people around him believed what they were saying and wanted to do it. It wasn't just a marketing ploy. Like they thought they were making something better. And I also think they. It was a time when Gap and Gap wasn't doing really well. Uniqlo had not become a big thing and there was sort of a lack of cool basics. American Apparel had imploded. It was like post American Apparel, Gap wasn't doing well. It was pre Uniqlo really making it in the US and like to get a cool, like a boxy. They used to make this boxy pocket, front pocket, white T shirt.
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B
Yeah, I had quite a few of those.
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A
Yeah. And like their jeans were cute. They did a good job and they made the stores. When they finally opened stores, they looked like old gaps from the 90s. Like there was a time when I definitely thought that they could get acquired by a bigger company scale really fast and become the next Gap and in reality Commodity, Amazon. But Uniqlo and Gap as well, it just made that sort of business to. To have a basics brand and it be $400 million a year doesn't really make sense. Like either you have a niche thing like Lisette and you sell higher end stuff, or you have Uniqlo or Amazon or Old Navy or whatever. Or Quint. Exactly. So can you talk a bit about how Quint factors into all of this? Because they are sort of the post, post, post version of Everlane and And I feel like in the last year have really cut into Everlane's business.
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B
No, for sure. It's so funny because the whole thing of Quint is like, Quint is like an anti brand. It's kind of like, here's just a product. It's coming straight from the manufacturer. It's at a price that's better than you'll get, but it's not fast fashion slop. And that's really cut through. I think, you know, a lot of the economic uncertainty of the past, like three, four years has really helped them. You know, consumers are like, I just want things that are good. And also I think I don't. This is. I don't know if this is like intentional on their part, but I think consumers have, with all the greenwashing, have kind of just been like, this is all crap anyway, like. And so Quince hasn't really like done marketing to say like, you know, because they have the same sort of radical transparency of like the breakdown of the margins and how things, you know, how much it costs versus how much the consumers are going to pay. But they haven't been like, sustainability, sustainability and like slapping it in the face of consumers. I don't know if that's been working in their favor where customers are like, okay, I guess this is probably not the best quality T shirt I can get, but I like the price and it's not going to fall apart. And like after it's like two washes, that sort of thing. And they've been really smart. What's going to be fascinating if they actually just like what Evelyn? A lot of other brands have been doing it. They're trying to get into like more brand building and get away from this sort of dupe image. So when that's actually going to start to work against them. So I'm going to keep a close eye on that because I think they have the right formula. Like, consumers just want really good products that isn't going to fall apart really quickly. And they don't need to be like hyper sold to. They just need the mechanism to feel good enough. And Quint has been like the best at doing that. But now that they're getting into like doing like an ASAP rocket collaboration and like getting into more product categories like music, vinyls, like, I wonder if that's going to work against them or not.
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A
Yeah, I heard something, I just remember about them getting an artistic director who's an interesting pop culture figure. Let's see. I need to do more reporting on it, but stay tuned. It might be in line sheet later this week. That, that reminds me. What do you think about Quint's product? Have you. You, have you bought anything from there?
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B
I've been. I'm probably going to buy some sheets from them because honestly, I've heard that betting is, like, where they really are.
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A
Oh, yeah, that's. That makes a lot of sen.
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B
Betting. Anyone that I have talked to who have gotten anything from coin to like, no, their bedding is like, the truth. Like Brooklyn and goodbye. Like, they're like, the best. So I'm. I'm flirting with. With, with buying that. But I haven't, like, bought the product. I'm. I'm a snob. I only buy, like, secondhand designer clothes, so.
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A
Well, why. Well, this is the thing. Like, why would you own. Why would you buy anything else? Because you can get. Especially in menswear, I bet the prices are really good on the real or whatever.
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B
I live on the real real, so.
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A
Yeah, yeah, you can. You can get amazing clothes for not that much money. Why would you buy junk? Like, even if Quince isn't junk, it's junk. You know, it's like, that's.
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B
You and I are not the target customer for Quince. The quince is for, like, the person who kind of cares about what they look like and want to look clean. Like, like what Evelyn was, who Everlane was appealing to. That's who Quince appeals to today.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, whatever happens with Everlane, I don't know, I'm not, like, upset about it, obviously. Like, a lot of people are. The only thing I'm upset about is that I really liked it and I liked everyone who worked there. I went to their offices a million times, and they got kicked out of their offices or whatever. They claim that they were moving their. Relocating their headquarters to la, but I know someone who knows about the deal and I know you did reporting on the real estate stuff. It's. That office was awesome. It was in the Mission in San Francisco. It was like the one place that you could go work if you wanted to work in fashion and not work at the Gap and in San Francisco. And like, everybody who worked there was cool and, and smart and I don't know, they weren't. The thing I will say is I. They weren't like, it wasn't fraudulent. It was like they believed what they were doing. Whether or not it was ever going to work, I don't know. But, like, they really believed in it. And it's just. I don't know. Most of Those brands I really don't care about. But I do. I have a soft spot for Everlane. So whatever happens, best of luck to the five people who still work there. Don't fact check me on that, Malik. Moving on to a different sort of direct to consumer brand. You are working. You have a piece coming out on Tuesday afternoon. So many people will have read it already, some won't. On Victoria's Secret and their latest challenge in the market. So they've been doing well. Like, I think they finally got the marketing on track. They hired this guy, Adam Selman, I'm a big fan of to be the new Ed Racik. Essentially he's a designer, but he's doing all their like, brand image stuff. He came from Fenty and their CEO who also came from Savage by Fenty, Hillary. Super. I think she has, you know, it. It seems like she's kind of done a pretty good job with it. It's one of these too big to fail businesses that just has such a strong armor in the market, but they've recently. They always just have something going on, like someone in their board has to leave or they have some activist investor. And I'm curious, there's been this latest battle. Can you tell us a little bit about what's happening with them and what they're battling against right now?
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B
Yeah. So earlier this month, one of their largest shareholders, called bbrc, founded by this Australian billionaire named Brett Blundy, has been like, launching this, like, in really aggressive sort of proxy contests calling for the removal of the board chair. Donna James has been on the board.
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A
So can you explain what a proxy contest is to the people listening to this who really want to know what I thought of Taylor Swift's Peplum top?
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B
You probably could describe it better than I can, but it is like, you know, you have an activist investor that's calling for like an overhaul of leadership changes, usually to the board of a public company. And usually there's like, support for that. So, like one of the biggest ones that's been happening in the last year or last couple of months has been one with Lululemon and the founder, Chip Wilson, who's really calling for a board overhaul because the company's not doing as well. Like, growth is slowing. You know, it's not as culturally relevant and he's been incredibly correct in his assessments and we've written about that. What was really interesting about this particular one with Victoria Secrets, Victoria Secret, as you pointed out, is doing well. Like, they return to sales growth, like in their recent earnings Their last earnings for the fourth quarter of 2025. Talk about the fact that, like, Pink, this, this brand has like, the highest growth in like over a decade. Bra sales are finally growing again since like 2021. So, like, Hilary Soap is doing a pretty, like, bang up job there. So it's like, doesn't make any sense that you have this activist investor because, like, what do you. What is your activism about? Like, if the company is doing so well. But a lot of it has come down to this person, Brett Blundy, wanting a seat on the board. And I'm constantly denying him a seat. And so it's been getting really loud and really, really messy. And it's been super interesting because part of what I was kind of. Again, we'll see. You know how this is edited, but, like, how I'm getting in the piece is like, in this sort of fractured retail landscape, like, even these strong brands can become targets, you know, and it's just so interesting to see how Victoria Secret is gonna, like, you know, get over this distraction. Cause that's ultimately what it is.
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A
Yeah. I find that it's also funny and looking forward to reading your piece when you file it, but I find it funny. There's just always men going after people at Victoria's Secret. It's like, so even though this. They're trying to kick off a board member who's a woman. Right. Who's been there for like 20 years.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Donna James, which is interesting. I obviously wrote a book about Victoria's Secret. There are very few people on the board. I think she might be the last one. That is like, of the Les Wexner era, maybe one other, because it was like a cronyism board at all these retail boards. So many public boards in America are just like, your roommate's cousin is on the board. Like, it's just so. They're so not objective like they're supposed to be. So look, maybe she. She should go. But it does just feel like it. It's strange. It's just an odd. Especially because, like, right now it isn't. It's fine. Like, the business is fine. Whether or not that's going to be the case long term, I have no idea. But like, I don't know, there's just something weird about it. Once I read your piece, I'm going to look more into it because you really took over this. This line of reporting. And so I haven't been following as closely as I normally would, but yeah, it just feels odd. I don't know, like, the Lululemon thing, the Chip Wilson thing. That makes more sense to me.
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B
Like, so much more sense.
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A
Yeah, he has a. First of all, he owns a lot of the company, and second of all, he may not be able to fix it at this point, but he knows what's wrong with it. And I think. I don't know. Some of these proxy battles make sense. Some of them are just drama for drama's sake. And I have no idea where the Victoria's Secret one lands. But I look forward to reading your piece in Line Sheet on Tuesday. And everyone should subscribe. You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a really great price and want to tell everyone about it? Yeah. So do we. Here at Designer Shoe Warehouse. We'll give you something to brag about, like the latest styles from brands you love or the trends everyone's obsessing over, or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Buying shoes that get you at prices
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B
that get your budget.
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A
Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW. Let us surprise you. What if everything you learn in history class was only half the story? I'm Dr. Haruni Bhatt, host of Hidden History. Every Monday I go where history gets mysterious. Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, paranormal phenomena and events that science still can't fully explain. On Hidden History, I treat these moments like open case files. Not myths, not superstition, just incomplete explanations waiting for a closer look. Listen to and follow Hidden History available now, wherever you get your podcasts. So the other thing I wanted to chat with you about was did you check out the Dior and Gucci shows from last week that happened in America? What did you think? So there was Dior in LA on Wednesday at LACMA and the new galleries and then on on Saturday night. You know, Malik, you should have gone. I didn't think about it. Next time you need to say something.
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B
You know I will. Next time say something. I was on my couch on Saturday.
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A
Oh my God.
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B
You could have gone rewatching. Watching the, watching the live stream, being like, this is so cool. Okay, so I am a demna apologist. I think he's a spectacular designer. Honestly, when he the vetement thing I thought was cool, I his early stages at Balenciaga, I was like, this is a little too, you know, street streetwear for me. Like that just was never my style. So on a personal level, I didn't connect to it. But when he started doing couture, I was like, oh, this person is extraordinary. He understands culture. He understands like guys better than like I think any designer around. And I think that, that the Gucci show was such a perfect example of that, like something that's been happening in fashion shows recently. The casting has been like pitch perfect in terms of like the ages. Like you have people who are like young, like you have at Gucci. He had like Emilia Gray, you know, obviously Lisa Rinna's daughter, who's an it girl, but he also had like Athena Calderon, who's like one of the chicest women to exist, who was.
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A
Oh, I didn't notice Athena was cast
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B
that the best makeup. It was, it was fabulous.
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A
That was her?
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B
Yes.
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A
Oh my God. Wow, that's very cool.
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B
It's so cool. And. But everyone who was cast like, was perfectly calibrated. You could see all these people wearing these clothes and even like the celebrity they pick, like, I'm like obsessed with Laura Harrier and she's obviously styled by Daniel Goldberg, who is literally the goat of styling one of them. And she's just wearing this like Sharon, she wore to the show, this white Sharon Stone inspired dress, like really form fitting 6 inch heels with a white bag. And I'm like, who looks cooler than that? Like you wonder, you'll see somebody walking down New York City, a girl like that in SoHo, wearing that outfit. It's funny, I was going back and forth with a friend of mine who was also a fashion journalist who was like, I don't know if this is gonna get people in America to want to buy. And I'm like, I disagree. I feel like this type of show is like, it's so product forward, so product focused. It's built around these characters that you. And like you have people who are aspirational who feel real like in Athena Calderon, like, I don't know, I'm all in on it.
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A
I was a big fan of, you know, I thought her, I thought her name was pronounced Sabina, but it might just be Sabine Getty. Who is, I don't know, she's. She lives in, she lived in London for a long time. She might live in LA now. She's socialite and she does do other things as well. But she's very chic and cool and she's. She. I loved her look. I loved so much of it. I thought the casting was on. I think the interesting thing about how what he's doing with Gucci is like a Cindy Crawford he would have never used for Balenciaga. And I think what you're saying about him understanding? Yeah, what you're saying about him understanding, like, exactly right. Getting in the zeitgeist. That's exactly it. Like, he knows that Cindy Crawford is right or Tom Brady is right for Gucci and not right for Balenciaga. And I think the product is great. The boots are gonna sell like crazy. They're amazing. I want them. They're so good. The bags look great. He really understands. Understands product. He's amazing. Product designer. My only thing, I really like the show. I Dior. I felt a little FOMO not being there because it was. I lived in LA for a long time. It was at lacma. I haven't been to the new galleries. I kind of felt sad that I wasn't there. Gucci, I felt it, even though less. It was funny. The next morning, fewer people messaged me, whereas Dior. Everyone had an opinion. Fewer people messaged me about Gucci. The one thing that people said that I kind of agree with is. And it's hard to. It's hard to articulate this, but Demna is Demna, and he's never gonna be anyone but Demna Demna. It doesn't mean that he isn't getting Gucci right, because I think he is. But I think what his Gucci is, is sort of what I expected it to be. I think what people are looking for right now are to be shocked. And I hate to bring up Chanel because everyone's sick of talking about it, but the way that Mattu Blasey has shocked everybody by making, like, pretty clothes that everyone from, you know, everyone. There's something for everybody. There's something for the basic B, but there's something for the really sophisticated customer, that sort of thing. And no one expected Chanel to be so great. So everyone's, like, very delighted by it. I think that Demna is delighting people, but I think that the expectation of what it would be is not far from. From what he has delivered. And so there's a feeling, and I think it's going to go away because I think the sales are going to be good, especially this collection. It was really sharp and it felt great. And I was like, yeah, this is. This is wonderful. But people are so sort of jaded. And a friend of mine was messaging and said they're. They're basically making up that not only do they need to have a new proposition that excites people, they need to, like, get people to trust them again. All these companies, because they just lost and they never lost trust in Chanel, because even when Virginie VRDS collections were terrible or whatever you thought about them. The product in the stores was amazing. So, like, no one lost trust in Chanel. No one will ever lose trust in Hermes. And another person said to me, hermes and Chanel, like, everyone needs to stop comparing all these other companies to them, because they don't. They're not the same.
- [26:45]
B
No, they're not.
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A
So my only. It's not a concern, but my only, like, hang up is, are we expecting too much of these people? Like Dior and Gucci? I thought Dior was not a perfect show, but I thought there was a lot of really amazing commercial stuff in. In it. And it's a cruise show. It's supposed to be commercial. I thought it looked nice. I didn't understand the menswear. I love Ed Ruscha. I'm sorry.
- [27:13]
B
I didn't like the disconnect between the menswear and the women's wear in that show was so wild.
- [27:18]
A
Yeah. Like, as a consumer, did you like the men's. Do you like any of the menswear? Did you like the first collection he did.
- [27:24]
B
I love the first collection he did. It's funny because I. I listened to you say that, like, a lot of the people haven't really looked good on the red carpet in it, but I actually thought that, like, Lake Stanfield looked amazing.
- [27:35]
A
He's like, he looks good in anything.
- [27:37]
B
I know, but he's gorgeous. But, like, he's, like, the only one who's been able to pull off, like, the Jonathan Innocence Dior. But, no, I wasn't expecting. I wanted to go back to what you were saying about the shock value. Obviously, Demna is known for shock value. And I think because of the dust stuff that happened at Balenciaga, he's obviously pulled away from that. And I also think that a part of it, too, is sort of this celebrity hangover. Like the same sort of backlash you're getting from the Met Gala, sans the whole Lauren Bezos and Jeff Bezos of it all is this idea of being so saturated with these celebrities. And I think the macho blasey proposition has been so. Not that it's been so pure fashion pure. These beautiful, chic women of all ages. And that's been a part of, like, the surprise. And it's a part of the allure there outside of the clothes just being great, but with them, that he is so culture and celebrity focused that I think that having, like, the Tom Brady there is going to. Is going to stir up the right reaction. Like, this is cool and like we love this troll but also like a God, another celebrity infused nonsense, you know?
- [28:35]
A
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if he shied away from back backlash. I think he's doing what he thinks is right. And, but I do think it's like, is it. He's just doing what he wants to do and, and I think people just expect so much like they just expect it to be life changing and it's like it's not like it's just close
- [28:57]
B
and so we'll see.
- [28:58]
A
I hope that this. Yeah. And, and honestly, the Gucci stuff is selling really, his stuff is selling really well in the American market. The numbers show that. So let's see if China gets on board. I think that this collection, it's interesting because Dior is doing well in China from everything I hear from people. And I think it's doing pretty good in the U.S. but, and, and the thing is no one is, nothing's doing well in Europe except for Chanel, because no one, everyone in Europe is poor and there are all these wars. So like it's just never, you know, it's, but it's interesting.
- [29:33]
B
It was, that's the Lauren Sherman line. Everyone in Europe is poor and there's all these wars. Indeed. He's in a conceicao.
- [29:41]
A
Deep analysis. Yeah, it was interesting and I was kind of, I was glad that I missed it because I can't, I need to be at home. But I was sad to miss it because it seemed like great show and next time you need to. I feel bad you didn't go. You could have gone.
- [29:59]
B
Actually. I know. Next time I'll speak up. I'll speak up.
- [30:02]
A
Yes, please do, Mike. There's never been a better time to get outside and experience the benefits of nature, discover nearby trails and explore the outdoors with alltrails. Download the free app today and find your outside.
- [30:21]
B
Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at the Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the next grill four burner gas grill on special buy for only $199 and entertain all season with the Hampton Bay West Grove seven piece outdoor dining set for only $499. This Memorial Day, get low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot while supplies Last price invalid May 14th through May 27th. US only exclusions apply. See homedepot.com pricematch for details.
- [30:53]
A
I also wanted to ask you, back on the shores of France, the Cannes Film Festival is underway and it's like three weeks of red carpet. Anything stand out to you? So Far.
- [31:08]
B
So I put together a little list. I was looking through it. First off, Cate Blanchett and Givenchy, I just thought was extraordinary. Like, it's like this shawl neckline brocaded with, like, these gorgeous embellishments. It's fringe. I mean, she's Cate Blanchett, so she could wear a paper bag and it'll be stunning. But, like, it just to me, stuck out because similar to, I think of how you felt. I think the Givenchy red carpets and necessary Burton has just been spectacular, even though I don't love the Runway shows. Like, I see the shows. Okay. But it just translates. It's actually the opposite of something like Dior. Like, it translates so perfectly to the red carpet in a way that I don't think Dior is or even I was looking at. There were some people wearing Michael Wright or Celine, which I thought has. Is just styled so perfectly. But, like, on the red carpet, it just doesn't translate well.
- [32:00]
A
I would say I loved Woody Harrelson in Celine. He looked great. I would wear that outfit. It's just like a green shirt and black pants and white shoes. But he looked cute. Like, I was like, I would like my husband to wear that. But yeah, I agree. I think that, like, they're still finding their footing on the red carpet. I think Dior is. Is stronger. And I thought Dior was really strong during the Oscars. But y. I like that Givenchy look, too. And I also thought her Vuitton, her, like, portrait collar Vuitton was amazing as well.
- [32:32]
B
Well, she's always going to crush it in. I mean, her and Nicola are, like, best friends. She's always going to crush it in Louis Vuitton every single time. I also thought new house ambassador for Chanel, Sandra Hula, who I'm obsessed with one of my favorite actresses ever. I love her. Chanel was just absolutely ravishing. And it's funny because Chanel had some really dinner with Riley Keough in Chanel was beautiful. Marianne Cotiltard in this leather Chanel dress I thought was really interesting. I thought it was the right sort of conversation starter. Also going back to Gucci and going back to the age thing. But, like, on the red carpet, the people that have looked the best in Gucci have been women over, like, the age of, like, 50 something in their 60s or beyond, like Demi Moore and Gucci. It's clearly a Jane Fonda.
- [33:16]
A
It's not the purple. Purple Gucci.
- [33:19]
B
Both. There was two. There's a. There's like a red one that she Like, a reddish one that she wore with a huge collar. And then she wore that. That gorgeous lavender sort of.
- [33:27]
A
She looked great.
- [33:29]
B
And then Jane Fonda and Gucci in, like, this, like, black obsessed. I mean, when I tell you, like, Jane Fonda is a woman of a certain age, and when the day comes, I'm gonna have to do a leave of absence or, like, overreach. I love her so much.
- [33:44]
A
She's never gonna die. Don't worry. No, she's like one of these people who's. Who's definitely. She definitely has some sort of deal worked out.
- [33:52]
B
She has.
- [33:52]
A
Fine.
- [33:52]
B
Yes. For sure. But she looks stunning. I also. I want to get your thoughts on this. Did you see Chloe Zhao and Schiaparelli?
- [33:58]
A
I loved it. That's my number one. It's the best she's ever looked. I thought I went to that couture show, and I like that look. I think it is honestly, one of the best. And Schiaparelli always does incredible. Like, the red carpet is amazing because it's truly couture first. But I thought. But she looked incredible. It was the best she's ever looked. The shoes were exactly right. Like, the. Because the dress hit her ankle, and they were the exact right shoes. Like, I would wear that outfit in a second. And I thought she looked. She always looks, like, a little moody, which. It's her style, and it's totally fine. She wears a lot of Gabriella Hurst, and she looks great. And then she's worn Hermes before, but I thought I was like, wow, you look dynamite. That was my number one for sure.
- [34:45]
B
Dynamite. She, like, they. That's the kind of moment you wish for on the red carpet. Like, it feels. It's, like, flashy, but still kind of understated, you know, and it fits the person's style to a T, but it's, like, something that they've never sort of done before. Also, I was really taken by Heder Eckerman's Tom Ford. Like, on, like, Cara Delevingne. I just thought it just looks.
- [35:06]
A
Cara Delevingne and Tom Ford looked amazing. And also, I have on the ground intel. I mean, you can see it in the numbers, but, like, legit, that it's selling really, really well.
- [35:16]
B
I mean, I can. Like, there are several pairs of jeans from the most recent collection that I'm like, I'm going to have to break the bank because I need to get.
- [35:25]
A
You got to do it, Malik. I will always. Peer pressure.
- [35:28]
B
Yes. No, but. But. And also, I mean, like, they're just, like, icons of Cannes Like Isabel Hubert, who's also one of my favorite actresses of all time in Balenciaga, who looks good.
- [35:38]
A
She looks great.
- [35:39]
B
I just. I feel like, to me, I think what red carpet has become nowadays has been. And I actually will say that this is like the post law of Rose Zendaya effect of, like, always wanting to have these, like, insane moments. But I feel like this Cannes Film Festival, looking at the red carpet, it feels sort of not par down, but it feels like people wear a thing that they would wear that they look good in, and that makes sense for them rather than trying to have these viral, you know?
- [36:02]
A
Yes. Well, I would say one thing is a. Matt Bellamy talked about this on the Powers that Be with Peter Hamby. But there are just fewer Americans in Cannes this year. I don't really. I don't. I didn't. I only. I listened briefly. I'm tired. But everyone should listen to it anyway. There are fewer. There's, like, many reasons. So I think one thing is a lot of the celebrities so far have been French. And so, like Leah Sedo in Louis Vuitton, I thought looked really good. I also love. I don't know if this is how you pronounce her name. Adele Exarchopolis, who is amazing.
- [36:41]
B
I never say her last name ever. I would just say Adele.
- [36:44]
A
I think that might be right. Or. I'm very close. I am obsessed with, like, her and Lea Sedot, like, together. I think they were in a movie.
- [36:52]
B
I'm real with the warmth. Color 2013. Formative.
- [36:55]
A
Yes, she is. She's. She had a Saint Laurent dress. Demi Moore wore a Jacquemus dress from the last collection for the, like, opening ceremony. That was amazing.
- [37:07]
B
She also wore this dress from Fecal Matter. Oh, yeah. She looks now. But that was spectacular. That was amazing.
- [37:14]
A
She looks good. I thought Odessa Aziom looked good in Dior. She had a Dior suit on. But, yeah, it feels like real fashion, and that's super fun. There was a point when Cannes had gotten so nuts that, like, someone told me a story about there would be, like, dresses on a door and there'd be also attached would be just, like, a pile of cash. And so you would decide which one you were gonna take. I don't know if that's happening so much anymore, because the opportunities for red carpet have proliferated. And also, I don't know. This. This just feels pared back.
- [37:50]
B
Yeah.
- [37:51]
A
And I thought, you know, Louis Vuitton on the red carpet is really, really hit. I really, really miss for me, usually. But I think you're right. Like when it's people, when it's like Cate Blanchett, when it's Leah Sedo, when it's Seydoux, whatever, and when it's Jennifer Connelly, like people that Nicola Jessica actually have relationships with, it really works. And so those, I thought that so far these, these people have looked. There's been a lot of really nice stuff, that's for sure.
- [38:20]
B
I agree. But I think you brought up a really good point about the who. It's not just the witch designer, but the who. Like these people who are cool, obviously they all, you know, spend a lot of money to be incredibly attractive, all that stuff. But like they have like a joie de vie. They have a thing there, like even without the clothes that you know is appealing, that you just, you just get the right design and you get the right garment and it's going to really, you know, hit.
- [38:42]
A
So for sure. So one final thing I wanted to talk to you about since you're such a big fan and follower and reporter of menswear are our buddy Sam Hein, late of GQ magazine. I reported on Friday that he was moving to New York magazine, not to the Cut, to New York Magazine. And today New York magazine announced that he, they is joining the business as like senior menswear editor. And also he's going to launch a newsletter and also they're going to do, I think a biannual or quarterly menswear supplement that will be a standalone publication, not called the Cut, maybe a totally new name. My guess is it'll be like this by New York Magazine or whatever. But what do you think about this? It's. Do you feel like, because Jacob Gallagher, who, who reports cross fashion now, doesn't just do menswear but is a long term menswear reporter, just launched a really awesome newsletter called the Fashions that everyone should subscribe to. His piece on the Swatch. Do you know how to pronounce this watch brand name Audemars. Yeah, the, the piece on the collaboration between them was like really like, I don't get jealous about stories a lot. I thought he did it. Really. I was kind of like, damn, that would have. I. I'm mad that he had that. But he just did a good job of explaining why this collaboration was so important.
- [40:09]
B
Yeah.
- [40:09]
A
But he just launched a newsletter. Like, what do you think about New York magazine going into this market with Sam, who you know, we all know and love?
- [40:19]
B
It's a long time coming, I think. You know, menswear continues to be incredibly Important. I also think that, right. The thing of the proposition of Will Welch, you know, with the help of, you know, Sam Hine and mobile@GQ, was this idea of. Of interrogating masculinity and interrogated what it means to be a man. And that obviously, you know, with these your feeds, like clavicular, you know, barfing around town and being in, you know, fashion shows, that continues to be a thread that people are pulling on thing that people are paying attention to. And at the core, really, you're just getting people to look at men and look at the way that we dress and how we express ourselves and how we adorn ourselves more closely. I think, you know, some of like the. The bigger fashion icons today are men. You think about, you know, Ivy, Harry Styles or Jacob Elordi or we talk about, you know, Lakeith Stanfield. Like, it's as zeitgeisty like people are as excited to see what Coly Domingo is going to wear when he steps on a red carpet as they are about a Cate Blanchett, you know, like a fact. And so I think having someone like Sam Hein who really blends, obviously he's incredibly smart and, you know, show notes was. Was great. But he also himself defines this sort of look. Like he, you know, is chiseled and has a great style and all that stuff. Like, he is someone that you want to hear from because he lives it as well. I think it's. I think it's fabulous and I think it's, you know, New York magazine files on all fronts when it comes to blending really smart reporting and understanding the culture, more people want to read and want to hear about. And I think that having him there as like sort of this preeminent menswear figure is going to be great, and I think people are going to respond really well to it.
- [41:54]
A
Yeah, I think it's smart. It look like the. The challenge with these kinds of things. And this goes back to W youth as well. Whatever you think about the name, it's a fun concept.
- [42:06]
B
Yeah, the.
- [42:08]
A
The way you make you create these second titles, the reason you create them is to make more money and get more advertisers and different kinds of advertisers. The challenge is you have to basically do it with the staff that you have. So, yes, they hired Sam. They're not going to hire a bunch of people. Like they're going to use staffers from New York magazine to help staff it. They're going to. It's not going to be suddenly a new I Mean, it may have its own P and L, I don't know, but probably not. Like, it's going to be a line item on the New York magazine P and L, so. Or I don't know for sure. But you know what I mean. The point is, like, let's use. Let's make something new with the same resources we have and one headcount. I'm sure they. They can afford it, so. Or can they? I don't know. But yeah, they can. They're. They're mildly profitable, according to Dylan's reporting. But I think the challenge is like. And I understand why, like, you're right. Menswear is just a bigger part of the market. David Haskell was at the menswear show. I took a photo at Sakai, and he was in the photo and like, a million people were like, why was he there? Part of it probably was like, testing the waters about this, which was. That was in January. So I, I didn't. I haven't talked to him about it, but I would assume. I think it's smart. I think that the question is, like, how do you make this a super profitable business? And it's by paying Sam the amount of money he deserves and then making him work his butt off and using the shared resources around him. It's just an. It's an interesting moment because New York Magazine is probably going to be sold, maybe to James Murdoch, maybe to someone else. And these kinds of things go in and out. Like, the New York Times has tried this. They tried to do like a menswear only style section at one point that would, like, publish a couple times a month. And it's always. When it's advertising driven, it doesn't always work work. The, the opportunity here is that Sam is a really big talent. And so if David Haskell was basically doing it because he wanted to hire Sam, I think it's gonna work because, like, that's the reason you hire some. You hire the talent and then you build around the talent. If it is just because, like, there's demand for advertising or they're desperate for new advertising, it will be challenging. But I am excited to see, look, there are great editors at gq. There are limits to the kind of stuff they can write about. And I think he'll have more leeway and be a little bit more pushy at a New York magazine, even if it is an advertising play. And I think Sam has it in him to question things. And so I hope it's cool and I hope we all love reading it and I hope he comes on Fashion People to talk about the launch issue.
- [44:58]
B
He should. He should. But I was gonna say, like, you have, you have someone who is a known talent who is cool, going to a news organization that also has cachet and is cool, you know, so it just to me feels like a win. Win.
- [45:11]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, final question. Do you like Taylor Swift's bridal string of bridal looks? Because I don't. You can't even tell. My Instagram. My Instagram Persona is Taylor Swift outfit hater. Like, I get. Get dozens of messages from people being like, what did you think of Taylor Swift's new outfit? Because I don't. I guess because I post about it and make jokes. I don't know. But I'm curious. She wore this, like, it was a really cute top. It's a, a white button up from Stella McCartney that has a peplum. And she wore it with a belt and then these trousers from the row and sandals from the row and this cute little Fendi bag. And I was curious what you think. She's like, worn a string of white looks leading up to her wedding.
- [45:57]
B
Okay, so I don't follow.
- [45:59]
A
Do you care about Taylor Swift at all?
- [46:01]
B
Okay, so I do. I mean, as a person who loves culture, yes, I do care about Taylor Swift. I'm now seeing this. She looks good.
- [46:11]
A
I think she looks good.
- [46:13]
B
She looks good. Like, it looks good. It looks tasteful. I mean, she obviously is like the sort of, like every woman sort of image and like, she's not trying to be chic. Even though she has the resources to be the chicest person in the world. She wanted to. And also, I mean, she is, come on, she's tall and she's gorgeous. So like, she could, if she wants to do it, she could. But this looks good. This looks tasteful. I like it. I'm not bothered by it. I don't think there's a, there's a particularly errant style styling choice here.
- [46:44]
A
No. Yeah.
- [46:45]
B
Now, would it turn my head if she wasn't Taylor Swift and I saw her walking down the street? Maybe not, but I like it. Like, I need your thoughts. I need you to. You to guide me through why this is not.
- [46:58]
A
Yeah, my feeling is I. She wore this like little leotard looking dress that looked like a figure skating dress a couple days earlier and she wore with a Dior bucket bag. I preferred that. I liked the outfit. The outfit's nice and it's interesting. Like, I don't think she could be chic if she wants. She can't be chic. She's not.
- [47:20]
B
Why do you say that?
- [47:20]
A
It doesn't matter how much money she has. She will never be chic.
- [47:24]
B
You don't think she could hire Daniel Goldberg if she felt like it and
- [47:26]
A
say, make me, and she still wouldn't look good? Like, it doesn't. There is, like, a thing. You either have it or you don't. And she doesn't have it. She just. She just doesn't have it. And she doesn't have the.
- [47:39]
B
The.
- [47:39]
A
The poise. She is a different kind of poise. Like, she would never hire Danielle Goldberg. It just would never. It would never. If it. If that happens, I don't know. But. But the point being that I think she looks perfectly nice. Look, everybody, when I. When I like to drag her outfits, it's more out of fun. Like, I just love. I think it's funny. And I love when she dresses crazy. I love Blake Lively style. If Blake Lively didn't wear that insane dress to. To the Met Gala, like, how fun. Life wouldn't be fun. So I would say that I thought she looked lovely. And she's obviously, like, trying to look mature and wants to feel good. What I really wish, because, you know, that this guy, that Joseph, that is her stylist is pulling all this stuff. I just want to see what she would wear. Like, I don't want her to use Joseph to go to Zero Bond. I want her to just. Just put on an outfit, because that would be. I bet that would be wild and fun.
- [48:39]
B
Yeah.
- [48:39]
A
But, yeah, I thought she looked good. And I love that McCartney shirt. I think people should buy it. It's gorgeous. And it would. Will look great on people. And. And also the little figure skating dress that you wore a couple days earlier, that's like Lurex and ribbed and very short. I think it's adorable. And I really. And it comes in, like a wine color as well, and I highly recommend it.
- [49:03]
B
Yeah. No, I mean, I hear your point to her never being able. Like, she just doesn't have what it takes to be chic. But I don't know. I see how she dresses in them. Like, there's somewhere in America where she's not famous. She dressed like, that's often. She's the best dressed person.
- [49:18]
A
I agree. I agree. And I think she inspires a lot of people.
- [49:22]
B
Yeah.
- [49:22]
A
Somehow that figure skating dress is not sold out. They must have made a lot of them. So people get on that. If that's your. If that's your thing. Malik, welcome to Fashion People. Your first appearance definitely won't be the last. And we've loved having you on Puck. I get messages every week. That guy Malik is good.
- [49:42]
B
I appreciate that. Oh, thank you.
- [49:44]
A
Whoever is messaging Warren, we're so happy to have you. And I'll see you on Slack.
- [49:50]
B
See you.
- [49:51]
A
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Pop Culture. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck Co founder John Kelly, Executive Editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett and Director of Editorial Operations Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.
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B
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