A (3:05)

Okay.

B (3:05)

I'm eating a salmon rice bowl currently. This morning I had an RX bar, two beef jerky sticks and protein with 50 grams of whey protein in it and PB2 peanut butter powder.

A (3:16)

Does that mean. So I don't want to. I don't want to reveal your weight if you don't want people to know you're very, very buff.

B (3:23)

I weigh too much.

A (3:24)

Do you eat like 200 grams of protein? Do you eat 220 grams of protein a day?

B (3:29)

255 right now. And that is Katie Grand's fault, actually. I'm on a really strict diet because of her, because she asked me to appear in Perfect, which I'm not even sure I'm allowed to say. But I'm. I'm. I'm letting you all know that Katie. I'm. I'm. I'm torturing myself for Katie grand at the moment.

A (3:47)

200. So. So, Phil, without getting graphic, how do you process that in your body?

B (3:53)

You have to have fiber.

A (3:55)

Like, is it. Do you fiber? Okay, that's the answer.

B (3:59)

Fiber is the macro that is like probably the most important macro for overall health and wellness. But you have to make sure you are taking. If I take psyllium husk in my smoothies, which saves my life. Otherwise it would be I would have a hard day.

A (4:16)

You had.

B (4:17)

Or a soft day, depending.

A (4:21)

Oh my God. I love it. Okay. The reason that you are on this week, there are met. You could be on any week. You're. Honestly, Phil, I just read the new issue of Playboy. It's so good. You're really, really good.

B (4:37)

Oh my God.

A (4:38)

Really good.

B (4:38)

I was worried you were.

A (4:39)

I love it. I love it also, but is it only for gay men and. And straigh women?

B (4:45)

No, it's.

A (4:46)

No, I actually don't think it is. Well, and we don't have a lot of time with you, so I want to get into every but. Phil, it's awesome. I like it so much. So first of all, a lot of people who are listening to this know you and know your background, but can you give your like, elevator pitch of who you are and lead that into how you ended up running Playboy magazine and the relaunch of it and all that?

B (5:09)

Sure. I grew up at Conde Nast. I moved to New York specifically with the express intention of working for Wintour one Day. So I interned at Teen Vogue at the age of 18 and ended up the chief content officer by the time I was 25. I led an editorial revolution at Teen Vogue. Not like to over or self aggrandize, but I pivoted Teen Vogue's content strategy away from just fashion and beauty and towards covering politics, wellness, sexual, health and social movements. Things that I thought were more reflective of the actual audience that Teen Vogue was targeting at the time. And we became one of the fastest growing women's magazines in America. We won many awards and got a lot of attention for an article called Donald Trump is Gaslighting America. From there I founded Conde Nast. First dedicated brand launch in 13 years since portfolio shuttered, which was called them an LGBTQ platform that I launched with Anna and Pam Drucker man. And then I decamped from Conde to be the editor in chief of out magazine. That was not a great idea. Ill fated. I worked with a great team and did did some beautiful work, but wow, I left out after a year of numerous scandals of them not paying their freelancers and I decided to find God. I ended up enrolling in Harvard Divinity School. I was working in the nonprofit sector for a couple of years after Divinity School randomly was the chief brand officer of Weight Watchers for a year. Let's not talk about it. And Playboy called right as I was exiting Weight Watchers and they were asking for help. And I had been in touch with Cooper Hefner and Ben Cohn many, many, many times over the past few years. And finally the time was right and it felt right and exciting. And so I've been consulting with them since November and joined in March.

A (6:55)

So can you just explain who owns Playboy now and what the sort of business model is?

B (7:01)

Playboy is a publicly traded company. So Ben Cohen is a CEO here. He hired me and I best understand Playboy's business model as a global consumer lifestyle brand like we are. We are much better known I would say right now for our licen businesses and the products that we sell, especially to Gen Z. And I look at the role of reviving media as actually sort of a top of funnel strategy to drive cultural awareness and conversation for the brand. That helps to enhance the licensing portfolio while also building back our literary tradition and our subscriber base.

A (7:36)

Okay, so it's interesting because there has been so much like Playboy jewelry, Playboy, fake tattoos. Like it's just, it's everywhere. And what was their pitch to you to start to relaunch the media itself and what this first issue like is it being widely distributed on newsstands that still exist. Like, what's the distribution strategy? What's the cadence going to be? As you know now? Like, what can you say about the strategy for the media platform specifically?

B (8:11)

Okay, so their pitch to me initially was we need help because we're trying to bring the magazine back and make it something that people talk about. And we also eventually want to apply that same philosophy to audio podcasts and, of course, video. And so I found that to be a pretty compelling challenge for Playboy in this day and age. And I just think that right now, when you read the literature about Gen Z and the sex recession and you read about the male loneliness epidemic in particular, Playboy has a very important and interesting role to play as a provocateur. Like, at a moment when we are more alone than ever and we're more distant from each other than ever, this is a magazine that is saying, please go touch each other. Like as in don't just touch grass, but like, please fuck. You know what I mean? And enjoy it. And also make sure the woman that you're having with it enjoys it too. So I really love that premise. I think it's very provocative. And I also think it is high time that we understand wholeheartedly sex as a cultural and political force. And that's something as a queer person have had to understand. But I don't know that that's something that all heterosexual people, especially men, understand so innately.

A (9:21)

Yeah. So Playboy traditionally was for straight men, I would assume. It can't just be for that now. In the same way that GQ and Esquire and these magazines for men aren't really just for anymore. And there was always that whole thing of, like, I replayboy for the articles. It was like a big joke in the 80s or whatever.

B (9:46)

Yeah.

A (9:47)

Taking all that history, what do you think? Like, I understand what you're saying about we don't talk about sex in the right way in media or culture at all. I think it's like the sort of puritanical extremism that has come out that has affected everyone, and it does feel like everything is just so sanitized now. Even looking back at, I don't know, sex comedies from 10 years ago, when there's one now, it's like this big deal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When you thought about, like, who is this magazine going to be for? How am I going to speak to straight men? People of all interests. Because that's the other thing is, like, it's not just like gay, straight, bisexual, now there Are like a million different. A lot of the new. The next generation, like, Gen Alpha, they might not even consider that. I mean, you know, especially on the. On the coasts. But, like, who. Who are you? Like, this is. Who is this for? Is it still primarily for straight men? Are you. Do you feel like you have a mission to make straight men more comfortable with sex or look at better art? Because we need to get into the actual imagery, which is really great. And some of the features you did, I thought it was just really interesting and it was so on point. And I'm curious how fast the turnaround was, because so much of what is in there is really in the water right now online. And you did a good job at pinpointing that stuff. But, yeah, like, who do you think this is for? Do you think it's like, do you want to make, like, young straight guys better at, like, dealing with women? Like, what is your. What is your mission with it?

B (11:45)

I definitely don't want to position our mission as anything that's, like, paternalistic towards men, but I do think Playboy has to be unabashed about wanting men to own their desire and at the same time about men owning their desire. To understand what that feels like for women has always been a part of Playboy's moat, right? And so, like, for a long time, the magazine in the 60s and 70s was the Vanguard of sexual liberation as a movement. But they started to understand you can't stand for sexual liberation unless you stand for other kinds of liberation, which is why we published the interview with Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. And we had Gore Vidal and James Baldwin writing for us, and Betty Friedan sat down for the Playboy interview. You know, culture and sex are absolutely intertwined, and Playboy was just kind of at the vanguard of making that super clear in a super artistic and compelling way. But, you know, I interviewed the curator at Salon 94 for a piece that I did for the issue on John Casseri, the erotic artist, and she had a great quote which was like, we live in both a prudish right and pornographic era, where on the one hand, we're rolling back abortion and. And we have beauty queens in the White House, and it's about the tradwife. And on the other hand, you have never been able to access a naked body being penetrated more easily than you can right now. And so I think restoring the art form to sex and desire has been a really interesting and compelling moat that definitely men are the target audience. 25 to 45 is my sweet spot for sure. But, you know, women have always been a part of the Playboy universe, and I would argue they've always been the center of it. So women make up a large percent of our audience, and we want them to feel good about what we're publishing too. For sure.

A (13:27)

Yeah. The John Casseri thing was the thing that really, like, struck me because that imagery. I don't know if there's an exhibit of his work up right now or somewhere. It's just been around on. Yeah. So it's just been online a lot recently. And I think, like, him and Ro Ethridge, the photographer, artist, like that work, it all is of the same. It's all connected. And I feel like on my Instagram, there's just a lot of regramming of that kind of work and those kinds of images right now. Like, it's very intimate, but it's not. And that's the thing. I mean, the porn epidemic of, like, kids who have been online since, I don't know, the early 2000s and like, how that's transformed their sexual lives, that's a whole. I'm sure you're gonna get into that every single issue in some way or another. Maybe not directly, but I thought that the imagery that you. That you put together through all of the different editorials and pulling in, even. Even on stuff that had nothing. Doesn't like directly have to do with sex. It felt, to me, it's interesting because it felt like you were on the Internet in a print publication.

B (14:57)

That's the goal.

A (14:58)

Phil, give this man some advertising money. It's amazing. Like, it just. I'm tired. It's 9:30 at night. I just looked at this an hour ago. Who knows? But I really felt like, okay, this feels like literally what's popping up on my Instagram suggested for you every day. Because there's a. There's a lot of. In fashion right now. A. There's a lot of lingerie brands that are emerging, which I noticed, like, you have very interesting advertising. So one I saw Luar, which I thought was interesting. So it's like a lot of brands that maybe wouldn't typically have an advertising page. And you have lure, the new Melanie Bender fragrance, which I'm supposed to interview her for the podcast some at some point soon.

B (15:49)

Oh, she's a good interview. FYI.

A (15:51)

I can't wait. But. But like Cuckoo Intimates. Is it. You. You used it. I could see some of the, like, underwear and stuff that was used in editorials was also like advertisers, things like that. And so it's an interesting I don't know, there's just like a lot happening in the lingerie market right now, so it feels like a big opportunity for you. Victoria's Secret should obviously advertise in Playboy, but that part of it too, there's just something happening in fashion right now where people are starting to be more interested in sex in a real way. Whereas I think post Covid, it felt like Rumspringa esque and it was just like sex, sex, sex. And that felt extreme and not real either. And now people are trying to, like, get back to something real. And I think that you really captured it in this issue of like, sex can be fashion and fat. You know, all of that that we all know it can still exist even in this, like, super sanitized times.

B (16:54)

Yeah, I thank you so much. I think one of the things that I set out to do with this issue was I worked with Marie Suter, who I've worked with basically my whole career, and she was most recently the chief creative officer of Glossier, but worked with me at Teen Vogue. And we were really intentional about casting women photographers for a lot of the issue. So all of the Playmates are photographed by women for the issue. And of course the COVID is photographed by Grace Sorrenti. And so what I found by being on set with, for the first time in my life with naked women, I've never been on a nude shoot before, ever in my career. As you can imagine, between Teen Vogue and Weight Watchers, not a lot of space for that. But I found that there was this really, there was a desire to be sexually untethered and to be sexually free. And there was also a desire at the same time to be treated respectfully and taken seriously while you do it. And I'll never forget when we shot Lauren Sommer with Alanna o'. Herlihy. Lauren popped off her bra to take to start her topless shots, and all of the crew started applauding for her and like hooting and hollering and stuff. And it was all mostly women on set. But Lauren just felt so good, you know what I mean? Like, it was a dream come true for her and that, like, there was a tenderness and I think a sensuality to the images that still conveyed fantasy, but. But that I think, invite you to think about sex differently. And we have to think really hard about that because you can get sex anywhere. And so the reason you buy this magazine, it has to be a different view of sex that you can't just find by tapping on your phone. And it still has to feel like it belongs to this incredible artistic canon of this 70, like almost 75 year old publication, you know.

A (18:35)

This episode is brought to you by Fandango. People say fans are too distracted these days, but the truth is when a great movie hits the screen, you show up, you stay glued, invested, part of the story. And without fans like you, there'd be no cinema magic, no shared moments. So head to fandango.com to get tickets, stream or rent or buy top movies and series. Fandango loves fans. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that. More dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life. Because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming youg People Think okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming youg wherever you get your podcasts. I thought your contributor list was interesting because it was a lot of people I had never heard of. How did you and your team, kind of a. How did you put your team together? Marie for sure is your writer die and I notice her agency, a lot of her creative people were part of putting it together. But how did you put the team together and how did you find the journalist? Because you talk about some of the sort of bigger features that you have in there because it's an interesting mix that again just feels like it could be an online conversation, but felt really rich and alive in imprint.

B (20:13)

Yeah, there's no full time editorial staff at Playboy. I have to build them over the course of the next year or two. Right. And so I'm working with an army of freelancers and kind of like contract permalancers basically. And so Marie and her agency staffed most of the creative department. We have a couple of in house creatives here at Playboy. And then I retained a couple of people from their past issue in November mostly and namely Magdalen Taylor, who's a substack, you know, pseudo celebrity, who's our senior editor. And Jesse, we just see Will who comes from Esquire and Rolling Stone background, who is our executive editor. So you talk about the feature packages and the builds like it was really the two of them or the three of us working on stuff. And also we made, to your point, we made a lot of last minute cuts to the issue to crash other stories in because they felt more relevant or it felt like we could just run those stories on digital sooner and get more wind on it. But I am a digital native. Like I grew up in digital media, not print media. So that's kind of how I think anyway. And so the features that really stuck out to me were Magdalene led a Playboy guide to meeting women in 2026 and it's a phone free guide to hooking up or dating. And three women really captained it. And it's just an advice section for guys. But we also did this incredible story called Vanished in Venezuela about a young man who got an American who got kidnapped by basically the secret police and was held in an international prison for six months and just reunited with his family at the end of the piece, which was an extraordinary work of like, work of journalism. And also we did a really great package was on AI and intimacy. My favorite thing about that package was the first one is called is about AI and porn. And I notoriously have been holding the line against AI in creative fields. But there's this porn star in the piece who talks about how most of her revenue comes from chatting with guys. They pay to chat with her, they pay for custom content from her and it causes a lot of friction and a lot of time for her. So she's using AI to build her own version of herself as a chatbot. And so there's a whole sphere of subscribers that she now has and a whole new revenue stream she has that's just the AI self that they can talk to and she builds boundaries with it. But then now they're paying and she's charging a super premium only for high paying customers to actually access her in her personal time. So I was like, this is a cool labor rights piece, you know what I mean? Like I hadn't done it like so I was surprised reading a lot of the stuff. And that's definitely a testament to Jesse and Magdalene and Ellen Carpenter who were on the features team.

A (22:44)

Yeah, I thought it felt really. When did you start putting this issue together?

B (22:50)

So mid to late November is when we officially started and then it went to print, I think just a few weeks ago.

A (22:57)

I mean that's still pretty fast given it really does feel. I thought one of the headlines that really caught me was this zombie law threatens the right to choose. And the the deck is the law that nearly killed Playboy is back and is now it's targeting abortion pills by male. We don't have to go into it in depth, but just the idea that you were able to find history, Playboy history In a new topic, I thought was really, really smart to position it, frame it that way.

B (23:31)

Yeah, I loved that piece, too. That's a new column we have called Dust Bunny, where we ask a journalist to go into the archive and find a contemporary le on something. So we're doing a lot of fun stuff with that one, and artists are actually pitching us for that, too, which is cool. I was just on the phone with Jess Cuevas. I don't know if you know him, but he has something exciting for that one.

A (23:49)

Phil. Phil, you're so smart.

B (23:52)

Thank you. Thank you for reading. And I also will just say it's 200 pages. Do you know what I mean?

A (23:57)

Yeah. It looks so good.

B (23:58)

It was a big book.

A (24:00)

So let's talk editorials and spreads. And how did you decide who you want to Katie Grahan having her style that cover. To me, Katie is just, like, makes everything look sexy, so it's so obvious. But, like, how did you start?

B (24:21)

I don't want to reveal too much because I obviously don't want anyone to be mad at me, but I had to call her, like, five days before the shoot, because I was like, I need a favor. And I was like, I know you're in the uk, But I need you to come to the Pacific Palisades. And she was like, yeah, sure, darling. Like, you know, I can just got on the plane. So anyways, I owe. I owe Katie a solid, and I love her dearly, but, yeah, having.

A (24:43)

Let's. Let's talk about the COVID and that and the concept and what you wanted to achieve there, because I thought. I think the photos look amazing.

B (24:51)

Thank you. Yeah, I'm super proud of the COVID Carol was just the right. Carol G. Was just the right person. She's headlining Coachella on Sunday. We dropped the COVID on Tuesday. I mean, and she. The one thing I knew about Carol was that I knew we could get sexy from her. Sexiness has been a part of her image, so she understood. Understands sex as an art form and sexuality as an expression. So I knew that we were in safe territory trying to push it with her and have a conversation artistically with her. And she wanted gray. You know what I mean? Like, she felt comfortable with gray. And so when we had Gray and Carol on board, I was like, it's gonna be beautiful. What also really added depth to the shoot was that it was mostly just the two of them together on set. Right. Like, these are very intimate photos, and so Carol needed to feel safe, and so we wanted her to feel safe. So I think that was also a part of what made it special. But we did say we didn't. We wanted to be careful about the line between objectification and adoration. And I wanted it to lean more into adoration. And with Marie, you know, all of Marie's pictures that she's produced throughout her career have really lent into a rawness, right. Something that's not hyper produced or overly done. And I think that's what feels so special to me about the COVID And then Paola Ramos is an old friend of mine. My friend Cleo told me to. Actually told me I was with Cleo when we confirmed Carol and she was like, you have to get Paola to write it. And so I called Paola and she said yes right away. But she's an Emmy Award winning journalist, right? And Jorge Ross's daughter. You know what I mean? Like, there's a royalty to Paola and the ability to conduct the interview in Spanish was huge. And so we got some great sound bites from Carol about what it means to be Latina at this moment in time and her upcoming Coachella performance and her recent breakup. And so the story went pretty wide.

A (26:40)

When you talk with Marie about like, what is. As you know, I wrote a book about Victoria's Secret. Oh, so. And Playboy did come up in it, but not because there was at one point, Hugh Hefner's daughter invited people from Victoria's Secret to Chicago. And we talked to some of them and it was interesting. But the Victoria's Secret, they were always talking about what is sexy now. And I think I think about it all the time, especially as our culture has gotten so extreme and chat bots and dolls, you know what I mean? Like, it's just become so extreme that, like the idea that people actually still have sex, like it's. It's this new generation. It's like, will they have sex? We like, they are not having as much sex. Right? So that's right when you and Marie talked about, like, what you wanted. Because the images are all different and I thought it was interesting. There's tons of close ups on like mouths and shoes and I love that. And it feels very fashion and very fashion right now. Like, it is in conversation with the new Steven Meisell, Alaia and Versace, both Meisell. Like, it's in conversation with some of the more raw is not the right word, but like tangible imagery that's coming out of fashion because so much of it is intangible. How did you all talk about, like, what you wanted the feeling of it to be? Because I just. I thought it was, like, really, really fun and. And great to look at. And there's just so few. I'm reading, being in Paris, I'm buying more magazines and I'm looking at more editorials, but I just find most of it so uninspiring. Now, what. What were you all like? What words did you put around the images that you. That you made?

B (28:45)

Every playmate had different words. So diff. Every playmate had a different mood. So Carlotta was like our classic blonde, and we wanted her in the jungle of Costa Rica, and we really wanted it to be lush. She's the first playmate to ever photograph herself. So it was like more in the classic Playboy tradition for January, but still felt fashion to me because Carlotta reads that way. But then when we got to Miss February, Lauren is so sexy, and she's in lingerie on her Instagram all the time. She has, like 2 million followers for it. So we actually wanted to take her into a completely different territory, which was The Vargas pinup girl, 50s, like, nod to old sex and let her play as sort of a performer there. And so that was like, more about vintage and a soft glamour. Then Taylor Hale is this, like, the first black woman to win Big Brother? She wrote this crazy essay that accompanied her piece. Hers was just hardcore velvet glamour. Like, we just wanted that to feel lush and, like, huge. And then when it came to Lexi, Morgan Mayer and Lexi built that themselves. And it was a way. It was actually harder, more hardcore than I even thought it was going to come out as. But we hired, like, a shibari rope instructor for Lexi on set. And so there's, like, a lot of imagery there that felt, like, restrained and about the body being held back or, like, flexible or loose. So there was a lot of tension in that piece. And so then when you thought about the rest of the book, we just wanted the Carol G cover story to breathe. So it's like a lot of open space. It's a lot of skin. It's not a lot of fussiness with the styling. Katie did a really good job there of just letting it feel open and free, because that's very much her vibe, especially right now. And then the macro shoot, you know, that Marie did, which was all these sexy close ups of moments that felt like they weren't about having sex, but when you know you want to have sex with someone or you're in that moment where it's about to happen, that's what we were trying to accomplish there. And so, yeah, there was the imagery is so suggestive to me while also being evocative. But it's not always about the act of sex. It's more about the act before it or right after it. And that's what actually makes it sexy. Does that make. Does that make sense?

A (30:58)

100%, Phil. I think it's great. I really like it. What would you do if your online store converted 36% more shoppers? You could take 36% more vacation. Another pina colada. Yes, please. Open a new retail location with 36% more square feet. Fantastic. Hire 36% more help. You're hired.

B (31:21)

And you're hired.

A (31:22)

Shopify has the world's best converting checkout up to 36% better than other ecommerce platforms. What you do with those extra sales is up to you. Switch to Shopify today@shopify.com setup and get a $1 trial. Shopify.com setup I was just thinking about the fact that, like, you're really the probably the youngest person who knows how to make a magazine.

B (31:49)

Oh, wow. Interesting. I guess Mark Guiducci is my age. Right. He's like a year older than me, too.

A (31:54)

He's a little older than you, right?

B (31:56)

Yeah.

A (31:56)

Don't want to. Don't want to age Mark. He's still very young.

B (32:00)

He's a friend. I can age him. He's making a magazine, too.

A (32:03)

Yeah. And I think of doing a good job, but this is good. You should be proud. I'm curious what you thought of the. Because we're taping the week of the Anna Wintour Meryl Streep cover of Vogue. I'm curious what you thought of it.

B (32:20)

I was shocked. I could not believe that she was on the COVID Could not believe it.

A (32:27)

Could not believe it.

B (32:28)

But maybe this era of Chloe stepping into a senior role there is about Anna being able to, like, finally lean into being more of a personality and to have fun with it. And it does look like from afar, as someone who still adores her and admires her very much, it does look like she is having fun. It looked like she was having fun at the Oscars. And I think there's something really special to be said about that because she's definitely earned it.

A (33:00)

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I think it was really hard for me to write about again because it was quite. It was too late in the evening when I started thinking about it. But my friend Amanda Dobbins and my friends Amanda Dobbins and Juliet Lippman on their podcast jam session, kind of dissected it, and I thought they Did a really good job of critically analyzing the whole situation. And I would say it was hard for me to absorb because I was kind of like, I understand this. I also don't like the Devil Wears Prada. I don't care about it. Like, I didn't. I know, but your. Your jaws dropping. You have to remember, I was. I had just moved to New York. I was a person who would not watch Sex and the City for the first, like, three years because I was like, I. I don't want to think. I don't know. It was. These. Are these.

B (34:00)

Are these. This is like the Bible.

A (34:04)

There's something about. Yes. I mean, I love. I love Sex and the City. I eventually succumbed. And I. I don't dislike the Devil Wears Prada. It was just that, like, when I moved to New York, I wanted that job. So, like, it felt too close. And. I don't know. I wanted to. To have my own life and not think about. And the same thing with Sex and City. I wanted to be a fashion writer and have a nice apartment with way too many shoes. And, you know, I. I felt like if I. I don't know. I. Like, if I was watching it, it would make it go away for me or something. I don't know. This sounds crazy. Yeah, it was just like. I was like, it's too close to what I want, and I don't want to be wrapped up in, like, fake media about it. Eventually. I think the Devil Wears Pride is a good movie. I just wasn't, like, into it when I saw it, I was like, fine. I understood the. When I saw the images, it was almost like, I think I ended up writing this. I can't remember. It was like a warm blanket or something. Like, there was something really comforting about. It's comforting seeing these people who. I mean, one who I've been writing about for nearly 20 years and another person who is, you know, an iconic character. That. And one thing that Anna said in the Q and A was that it really exposed the Devil Wears Prada really exposed, like, what a big business fashion actually is. And I think that and Zoolander are really the only movies that have ever gotten fashion right.

B (35:39)

Totally.

A (35:40)

But I think the thing. The challenge I had with it, and this comes back to me, my feelings about just, like, when Anna should have retired, when she will retire, all of that stuff. But, like, I would say Vogue used to be sort of the leader of what is happening in the culture, and now it's sort of chasing culture instead of making culture in some ways. And you don't have to comment on this, but it's just. It's this week, so I really wanted. Wanted your take. And I think, like, for me, she should totally play the game, and I think it's really smart from a. She, once again, is making Vogue a bigger brand. It's the second. To me, it's the most important fashion brand in the world, other than Chanel.

B (36:33)

That's what I was. It's, like, almost a mistake to think about Vogue as a magazine these days.

A (36:38)

Yeah, it's just that. Yeah, it's just that when I see a good magazine, there is a part of me that wants that from that. So I don't know.

B (36:52)

I totally feel. I totally feel that. It's funny what you said about a warm blanket, because there is something nostalgic about it because it harkens back to the prequel or not the prequel, the original. And one of the things I found actually really challenging about this job in general is, like, really hard to not fall into the nostalgia trap, because nostalgia is actually very anesthetizing. You said it was a warm blanket. Like, it puts you to sleep. It's like a nap. It's so comforting. And we're all clinging to nostalgia because I think we are truly living in what feel like very apocalyptic times where there's so much uncertainty. And so I think it is very daring and very different to be making something that looks forward and still is daring to imagine what's forward. And I do think that that is the role of an editor and a creator at this moment in time. And, yeah, I don't think that. But it's not the easy path, and it's not always what's going to get you the most impressive metrics or the most impressive advertising revenue.

A (37:49)

Well, Phil, I think you're not. You're gonna. Your advertising revenue is going to go up with the second issue. Also, have you ever raised money, like, for. For a. A company or them?

B (38:03)

But. Oh, yeah, the way that we raised money was Anna started the phone call, and then she left the room after 10 minutes. And then the money was what appeared shortly after.

A (38:11)

I feel like in your next life, you're gonna be. You're gonna be an entrepreneur because your pitch deck or your, like, pitch for this, I don't know what the deck looks like, but your pitch for. For Playboy was very convincing. I'm. I'm impressed. But there's no. What. What's next? What. What will be. So this issue comes out, people are going to like it. They're going to be Excited about it. More advertisers are going to get excited. Yeah. What, when will the next, when is the next issue slated? What are your plans now for what comes next?

B (38:48)

Summer, fall, winter for print. We are going to be ramping up on digital shortly. Right now we keep a pretty tight clip on digital, but we're hoping to ramp up production after we get the summer issue under our belts. I'm super interested in exploring podcasts and podcast partners right now. I really want Playboy to have a fun and talkative and compelling sex and dating show. I think it should be very easy for us. And we're also piloting a couple of video concepts that are a little bit more socially friendly than they are in the prestige space. Like we're working on one where we send a Playboy bunny out to various nightlife destinations to see what kinds of questions and answers she can get on the street. But we also have a really exciting package for the fall issue planned about the sex session. I'm actually working with Julie Schott on that, so I can't say too much at the moment. There will be a press release. But there's a lot of good journalism, a lot of really interesting things that we're planning in editorial that I'm excited to share.

A (39:46)

Okay, two quick questions. One is there was some really great advertising for Playboy product like a Playboy bathing suit.

B (39:54)

Yeah.

A (39:55)

Did you art direct or did you kind of manage that or is that a separate team? Because I thought it looked really good and it was, it felt natural in the, in the book. It didn't feel like weird that it was in there.

B (40:09)

Our in house creative, Smiley Stevens executed that for Playboy. So she straddled both editorial and some of our licensing extensions to make sure that the ads looked like they were all part of the same universe.

A (40:19)

I thought it looked great and it's also licensing can be, you know, so separate from the core of a brand and I thought it, it was really good. And then the final question I have for you is I know you have a divinity degree from Harvard Business School. Do you, I think I saw on Instagram. Do you go to church regularly or do you like what's your church going habits?

B (40:44)

We actually have a columnist at Playboy called Father Playboy. He's a priest here in LA who writes a column for us about morals and ethics. And yes, I do go to church. I don't go every Sunday because I have a social life and I'm a single 35 year old gay man. Shout out to anyone who's also single and eligible. But I do go.

A (41:02)

Phil's available. Guys, I am available.

B (41:04)

I'm available and moving to Miami. But I'm available.

A (41:07)

Why are you moving to. Oh, because Playboy is based in Miami.

B (41:10)

Playboy is moving to me. To Miami? Yes.

A (41:11)

Oh, my God, Phil, you're leaving la. You. You worked so hard to stay.

B (41:16)

I know, and I love it here. But the next, you're gonna keep that

A (41:20)

apartment because that building you live in is very cool.

B (41:22)

I don't think I am. I love my apartment, though. Thank you for that. I'm gonna do a great photo shoot in there before I leave, but, yeah.

A (41:30)

Okay. Two more really quick questions.

B (41:33)

Great.

A (41:33)

Do you think that there will be naked men in the Playboy as well,

B (41:39)

in the context of naked women? Yes.

A (41:43)

Because I was thinking about that again. It can't just be for a very particular kind of straight guy anymore.

B (41:53)

Yeah. And also, we want to show images of straight people in the throes of it. You know what I mean? Not actually ideally, but yeah. No, Playboy has historically shown naked men in photos. The women are the centerpiece, but the men are there.

A (42:07)

And then final question. Do you think the. Because we're talking about church for a minute, do you think the, like, decline in people participating in religion is related to the decline in people having sex?

B (42:26)

1,000%, yes. And also what's interesting is the sex recession is now accompanied by young men returning to church in droves. But church used to be a place where people would meet their partners or people would date. They would go to church to date. Right. Church used to be a community gathering place. And so definitely church is a really important social and cultural fabric. And with that declining, it makes sense that people are farther away from each other. But I also think is a very horny place if you're Catholic, especially. That's what I'm writing my book about. And so there's that, too.

A (43:01)

Well, I look forward to you exploring all of this in your book. And also, when is that coming out?

B (43:08)

That's coming out next year, God willing. Literally, it's called Is Jesus Kind of Hot? It opens with me, unfortunately, getting an erection because I was looking at the crucifix. You know, the crucifix is a pretty erotic image. And so, anyways, that's coming shortly. It's a collection of essays that are about my relationship to faith, which is very complicated, as you might imagine.

A (43:28)

Phil, I hope I see you soon.

B (43:31)

I hope I see you soon, too. I hope you're loving Paris.

A (43:33)

It's been great.

B (43:34)

Are you decked out in Charvet every day?

A (43:37)

I do wear a lot of charvet. It's awesome. It's so nice to be here. Also, the weather's been amazing. You know, this is the issue we got here in. I got here February 21st. Like, it's. The weather is amazing. I'm gonna be in LA the first week in June, though. Great. So let's hang out.

B (43:55)

I'll take you to parade.

A (43:57)

I. I don't do parades.

B (43:59)

Oh, that sounds homophobic.

A (44:02)

Oh, you know, I'm the opposite.

B (44:05)

On your own podcast.

A (44:06)

The opposite. I love everyone, but especially gay men. I literally would not have a job if it wasn't for gay men.

B (44:14)

So we love you, too.

A (44:16)

We. I. I love you all. Phil, this was amazing. Congratulations, everybody. Buy the Playboy. It's really good. I'm. I'm not just saying that. I think you all know that I would. I wouldn't say it if. If I didn't believe it. And I'm also just so proud of you. It's. It's. You know, I remember doing that Teen Vogue story with you and Marie and Elaine all those years ago, and look how far we've come. Phil.

B (44:41)

Look at me.

A (44:42)

Look how far we've come.

B (44:43)

Playboy. Yeah, totally.

A (44:44)

It's amazing. You're. You're a superstar.

B (44:47)

Very mutual. I'm really proud of you and everything you've built. Your newsletter is great and Puck is amazing. I read it every day.

A (44:53)

Thank you. Let's go into business together in, like, 10 years.

B (44:57)

Perfect. I'll tell John Kelly right now.

A (44:59)

He'll be thrilled. He's a fan. He's a Phil fan. Okay. This is great. Thank you for being here.

B (45:07)

Thank you. Thank you.

A (45:09)

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabad.