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- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.
- [00:03]
Liz Goldwyn
Whoa. When did I get here?
- [00:04]
Lauren Sherman
What do you mean?
- [00:05]
Liz Goldwyn
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.
- [00:10]
Lauren Sherman
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.
- [00:15]
Liz Goldwyn
It is the future.
- [00:17]
Lauren Sherman
It's. It's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
- [00:21]
Liz Goldwyn
It's all good. Happens all the time. Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pick up. Times may vary and fees may apply. If you're an experienced pet owner, you.
- [00:32]
Lauren Sherman
Already know that having a pet is.
- [00:33]
Liz Goldwyn
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- [01:07]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is Liz Goldwyn, writer, filmmaker, Esteet, and so much more. We're here to chat about her life in fashion and collecting fashion. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you had a great week. It was a little crazy over here at the Line Sheet headquarters. We had Couture, we had Road versus Rare Beauty, we had Aritzia, we had Anna Wintour succession, theories and suggestions. We had a little scoop about Sydney Sweeney launching some sort of lingerie project business, what have you. I'm sure more will be revealed in the coming weeks, but you really Gotta sign up for line sheet to get all the reporting. Fashion people is complimentary to line sheet. It's not everything. And if you want to be truly informed and entertained and just feel good about yourself, you got to sign up for Puck. It's not that expensive. You can also expense it or write it off. Believe me, it's worth it. Anyway, if you were in Europe, I hope you had a great time. I'm glad I was here at the pool, but I did feel a little sad that I missed the OG Hermes Birkin auction at Sotheby's, where the bag sold for $10.1 million that same day. The brand itself hosted this theme day where everyone seemed to be doing crafts. I saw Peter Malachi posted Bettina Couric doing some sort of painting thing, and I felt deeply jealous. I think of this whole week. Missing Glenn Martin's debut at Margiela, missing Demna's last show, missing Michael Ryder at Celine. Honestly, seeing them painting stuff at an Hermes thing where there was delicious food made me sad. Anyway, I hope everyone had a great time. It was there. And I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Liz. She is a real lover of life and you have to love her for that. So see at the poll this weekend. Liz Goldwyn, welcome to Fashion People.
- [04:07]
Liz Goldwyn
Lauren Sherman. Thank you for having me. I'm so honored.
- [04:12]
Lauren Sherman
I'm so happy you're here. What'd you have for breakfast this morning?
- [04:16]
Liz Goldwyn
I can't believe I get to answer this question. I'm in London, so I'm actually going to go out to dinner when we're finished recording. But many hours ago, I start my day with. I'm such a bougie hippie. I make a matcha latte with matcha I get from Tea Master in Little Tokyo in la. Who has the best matcha powder from Japan? Dates.
- [04:43]
Lauren Sherman
Great tip.
- [04:43]
Liz Goldwyn
Yeah, dates. Some cinnamon, some cardamom. And I make. Here's where we really get hippie. I make homemade nut milk. So I actually have traveled all the way to London with macadamia nuts from Hawaii. And I use. I have an almond cow in. In the States, but in. In London, in England, they don't manufacture those. I have like a jank version of that. So, yeah, that's my, like, breakfast in a big Vitamix for, like, for the first couple hours of the day.
- [05:18]
Lauren Sherman
Two things. You're speaking my language with the homemade nut milk. I don't make homemade nut milk. I've tried. I use three trees, which I find to be the closest thing to homemade in The US that you can get, that's store bought. It's just, there's nothing other than the nuts in it. I really enjoy it. They also, I don't think they do macadamia, but they do almond and they do a sesame seed milk. That is interesting too, but it is the best. They do pistachio, but it's so good. And when I'm going out for coffee, I seek out places that do homemade nut milk because I either want homemade nut milk or just black. I can't do either. So that's very inspiring. And then the other thing, have you heard about what's happening in la, the drama around the matcha world?
- [06:15]
Liz Goldwyn
No, but I'm so snobby about matcha because I worked for Shiseido for many years. So I've, I mean, I'm very particular about getting my matcha from, sourced from Japan. And every time I go get it in one of those, like, you know, like those. What's the name of the chain in New York? You know, the Matcha is very millennial. Pink coated. The Matcha chain.
- [06:36]
Lauren Sherman
Chacha Matcha Pacha.
- [06:39]
Liz Goldwyn
There's Alfred. I mean, I'll, I'll, I'll. Am I allowed to say that on the podcast?
- [06:44]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah.
- [06:45]
Liz Goldwyn
Okay.
- [06:45]
Lauren Sherman
I'll.
- [06:45]
Liz Goldwyn
With an Alfred, an Alfred matcha every once in a while, in a pinch. But I don't know about the matcha drama, but it sounds like a Gia Tolentino New Yorker story that I need to read.
- [06:56]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. I need to tell you about it very briefly. Are you familiar with Maru?
- [07:01]
Liz Goldwyn
Of course.
- [07:05]
Lauren Sherman
So you lived in Los Feliz? Maru is on Hillhurst in Los Feliz. And also there's one in the arts district. It's this coffee shop, but they also do matcha and other teas and it's very serious. And there's a line out the door and apparently, and I haven't read, my husband relayed this all to me because I don't know, there's not as much food journalism as there used to be. I don't know if eater has covered this, but apparently people were asking for. Because they won't do a cream top matcha. And that's like a big trend on social media. So people were asking for an order of cream and then doing it themselves and posting. And now there is a thing on the door at Maru being like, we will not sell individual orders of cream because as you, I'm sure believed, like that is a little sacrilege to put a cream top on a matcha. But I Will say there's another coffee shop called Kumquat in Highland park in Los Angeles that I really love and they have some novelty drinks that are. They have this one novelty drink called Cloudy with a side of peanuts or something like that. It's really good. It's not too sweet, but it doesn't have enough coffee. So I always get. I always ask for an extra shot and they will not do it. So I have to order the extra shot and then I stand there in front of them and dump it in. But it's just a funny thing. Do you think the cream top matcha. Yeah, I just am like, see, you could put. You could put the extra espresso in here. You don't have to be rude about it.
- [08:47]
Liz Goldwyn
But I love how. How niche. How niche this is of a discussion. But I also love bringing it back to fashion that like Maru and probably this Kumquat place you're talking is exactly the kind of locations that like men who wear high water. High water pants with no socks and spend a lot of time thinking about fashion and are like, you know, listen obsessively to throwing fits and they, you know, read all the menswear substacks that that's their coffee shop of Choice is like 100% because they want to go to be seen. It's also the scene where I get a lot of tax free from women at Mario of like LA boy sightings. You know, it's like these kind of places exist. It's like, yeah, it's a fat. It's a fashion lover's wet dream is like, you know, a place to get a good matcha.
- [09:40]
Lauren Sherman
Have you been on throwing fits or how long gone?
- [09:44]
Liz Goldwyn
I haven't.
- [09:45]
Lauren Sherman
Not that they're the same thing. I think both parties would be offended that I put them in the same. You. I mean you should definitely go on both.
- [09:54]
Liz Goldwyn
I would what that listen to them both. They're really funny. I like the way what's. I don't know. I don't know him. But is it Chris that does how long gone. I like the way he giggles on podcasts. It really cracks me up. Like he's like got this certain personality and he giggles. I adore it. And I also, I really like throwing fits. I like how. How earnest they are about their. Their love of fashion. I think it's really cool and they really know I respect anyone really knows their stuff when it. When it comes to.
- [10:27]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, it's funny. I was listening. I was on throwing fits like two and a half years ago. And I, I recently tried to. I didn't listen to the whole thing but re listened to it because I remember I was extremely nervous that I was going to get fired from my old job because it was so crazy. And I listen now and I'm like, oh, it actually wasn't at all. But compare, you know, my old job is very different from my new job and it's very funny but they're both such professionals and when you brought up throwing fits, it reminded me of Chris going to Maru all these years ago and how he probably doesn't go to Maru anymore because it is very fuckboy and he probably thinks he's too good for it. I'll ask him. Also am definitely going to text them after and say they should have you on. I'm not as close with Lawrence and, and the other guy, but I'm definitely going to tell Chris and Jason that you would be a really good. They don't have enough women on and they also, I think you are the, you can handle them. I think it would be great. Anyway, I have four, I have four.
- [11:39]
Liz Goldwyn
Brothers so I'm like very used to, you know, the, the male energy, the boys club. I grew up in the boys club so I know how to handle it. And also, you know, my father and my grandfather were huge fashion like so into clothes. My father had a bigger, bigger walk in closet than I've ever had. He had all his clothes. He had his suits custom made on Salvaro, his shoes custom made by John Lobb. He has hit his ties from Charvet and his shirts from Charvet. And my grandfather who you know, died before I was born, he was also like a known clothes horse. So I actually like, I really, I love a dandy. I love a dandy. I think they're so fat. And that's why it's like spending time in England because men dress and they don't dress in these high water pants that we absolutely have to outlaw these hipsters.
- [12:28]
Lauren Sherman
I agree.
- [12:29]
Liz Goldwyn
High water pants, carrying around a fucking suitcase with like a typewriter in it so they could go and type out a poem at Mario with.
- [12:41]
Lauren Sherman
Oh my God, what a picture. What a picture.
- [12:44]
Liz Goldwyn
You know exactly what I'm talking about.
- [12:47]
Lauren Sherman
I do, I do. I do think that. Do you feel as someone who grew up in a family that was very interested in clothing and like you said, you, you grew up with fashion and started collecting fashion yourself and, and getting into it really young, do you think how much has social media kind of ruined the way people dress or do you think that it's good that more people are in. Do you think more people are interested in fashion now? Do you think it has. What do you think social media has done to the youth and the way they engage with fashion?
- [13:29]
Liz Goldwyn
Oh, my God.
- [13:29]
Lauren Sherman
You're not 80.
- [13:31]
Liz Goldwyn
What has social media done to the youth and the way they engage in fashion?
- [13:35]
Lauren Sherman
I mean, I'm closer to 80 than I am to zero at this point. So.
- [13:41]
Liz Goldwyn
Fair. I actually went on a tangent about. About the whole. What I think of like the. Okay, Hailey Bieber, great that she sold road for a billion dollars, amazing. But like the Haley Bieberification of like the athleisure wear as it proliferates, especially in Los Angeles, it drives me bananas. That's, I think, done. That's more of a disservice for authenticity and individuality in fashion than anything else is wearing all these, like, very expensive, but they're supposed to look casual. You know, athleisure wear with like minimal gold jewelry and like a blowout. I hate that look. I mean, I miss the grit and the. And the grunge. But you still see that on the streets, I think, and you still see that in social media. I think just the algorithm is feeding us more of, you know, the kind of like erewhon goddess in like a two piece aloe. Like not even a two piece aloe yoga set. A onesie. You know, a onesie.
- [14:44]
Lauren Sherman
Oh my God.
- [14:46]
Liz Goldwyn
Jewelry. Like, come on.
- [14:48]
Lauren Sherman
I just went to this workout class in Studio City called Burn, which is. And they have one in West Hollywood, obviously. And there were so many women. I wrote about it and I forgot. I noticed set that it's basically aloe, but it's a set instead. It's this smaller brand has become really proliferated. But so many of them were wearing onesie and I was like, I guess that that would be more comfortable because you're not adjusting. But I would just be so embarrassed. My big thing for that generation, and generally, honestly my. Our generation too is don't leave the house in stretchy pants. Like every once in a while an elastic waist is okay, but your default should not be stretchy pants. Your default if you. I dress extremely casually, but when I go even to school run, most days I wear jeans. I just think it puts you in a different mindset if your pants don't have an elastic waist. And unfortunately, this is the way the culture is moving and there's no going back. But it does. There's so much more to the world if you don't just wear stretchy pants.
- [16:06]
Liz Goldwyn
It's very all you can eat buffet, you know, not having to unbutton the, your, your whatever top button of your pants. But that's the cool thing for me about vintage is, you know, I think that there's almost. What we're talking about is like that people want to look the same, they want to fit in like that, that New York cover story about the West Village. Whereas I think it was always for me and like the whole point of being like, of youth and fashion and rebellion and being punk rock is not wanting to look like anyone else and not having the same thing that everyone else has. And that's almost like in terms of fashion, like when we came up, that kind of look was the look of people who did not have taste but who had money but not taste, who wanted to buy like the expensive designer piece that like everyone else had. But anyone who really had a sense of style. You didn't want that one piece that was in all the magazines or whatever you wanted the thing that was different, that was hard to train.
- [17:12]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, it's in the West Village piece. Really. I found it really fascinating because Brock, I love amazing writer and almost all the people in that piece were people I know or I write about. It was so funny. It was just, it was such an interesting. And I had stayed in the West Village in a friend's place a year earlier and I remember saying to people like who lives in the West Village now? It just seems like all these young 25 year olds without jobs and they're all wearing sweatpants and I don't understand, it's so strange. But the point being that as that's happening there's also this sort of real, real phenomenon where people are thrifting and buying secondhand stuff. And I see that on the east side of LA a lot. I remember coming back from Europe the last time and I went to breakfast at Squirrel the next day and there were a lot of 20 something girls on sort of girl dates at 11am on a Saturday. And so many of them, it was right after the Miu Miu show and so many of them looked like Lata had styled them. They were wearing old Fendi bags or old Balenciaga bags with boots that you could tell were thrifted and everything was thrifted. So there's this sort of parallel path.
- [18:30]
Liz Goldwyn
Of.
- [18:33]
Lauren Sherman
Thrifting is so much easier than it used to be. And for a lot of young consumers it's a part of how they shop. But then there is also this homogenization that's happening more clearly than it did in the past. And so I want. What do you think about that as someone who, who was thrifting before it was that word existed probably like what do you think about those two things happening at the same time?
- [19:02]
Liz Goldwyn
Well, I love it. I mean I feel like I have several group chats that are just about everything that I've bought and returned on the realreal. Like on. Right. I just, I absolutely. I love the real real. I love. I. You know, it used to be ebay before. Before the real real or. Or thrifting. And you know, as someone who like I grew up in California, my mom grew our food. We might. Me and my brother got our allowance from recycling first at vintage clothing from that angle of just being conscious about the planet. And I love that like so many younger people now are also thinking about fashion in a sustainable way. Because when you talk about the homogenized look, to me that just reeks of like shine. Shane. How do you say it? Shine.
- [19:46]
Lauren Sherman
Whatever that Shein.
- [19:48]
Liz Goldwyn
He and yeah, she and like you know, just all these sort of mass produced will end up in a landfill kind of high street stuff. So I think it's really cool that, that people, that it's, it's much more like an immediate reflex for a lot of young people to be like, well, why would I buy something new when I can buy that thing that, you know, already came out 10 years ago and it has a certain value to it. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's fabulous that it's so much more accessible than it used to be.
- [20:24]
Lauren Sherman
So that's a long intro, a long prelude to the question I probably should have asked first. But Liz, who are you? Tell us. Give the elevator pitch of your life. There's also a great. We should say. Marissa Meltzer recently profiled Liz in the New York Times. And I ran into you all. You were down, I was meeting my family. We were going to dinner in the arts district at the Row down there. Not the Row, the Row. The Row. The Row is a shopping center in the arts district in Los Angeles. And I went to go into Arcade Vintage and it said we're closed for a shoot. And I look and I see Marissa's hair. And I was banging on the door. I walk in. It was a shoot for you because you, you were launching a big sale with them of some of your most amazing pieces. But before we get to that, let's get to you and why are we chatting?
- [21:27]
Liz Goldwyn
You tell me, Lauren. We are chatting. I'm an author. I've written three books and I'm starting my fourth. I'm a director and an artist and I have a substack called Star Fucker where I speak spill all the tea on Hollywood and fashion and the art world and all the amazing scenes I've been privileged to come up around and in. But also I am someone with a serious addiction to vintage clothing, which started when I was probably like 12 or 13, and it has not stopped. And I've had a number of jobs, especially as a younger person in and around auction world. I helped start the fashion department at Sotheby's when I was like 17 in New York. I worked for Karine Rotfeld when she first started French Vogue. I was the New York editor there. I worked for Shiseido, which is a Japanese beauty company. I've worked with a lot of designers as sort of. I guess I hate this word, but like muse or, you know, done ad campaigns and stuff like that, so. And I'm friends with a lot of designers and, you know, worked with curators on, like, with Thelma golden when she did Patrick Kelly's retrospective at the Brooklyn Museum. So I am someone who really loves the history of clothes and really loves not as much. I'm. I'm interested in the business of fashion. I definitely would steal my dad's Financial Times when I was a kid, and I knew who like Bernard Arnault and Francois Pinault were when I was like 14, I was just kind of obsessed with, like, the business of fashion. But more than anything, I love the thrill of a hunt. I love the thrill of a treasure, you know, and that's why I love vintage.
- [23:20]
Lauren Sherman
Do you think growing up in Hollywood and coming from this big Hollywood family, that history, part of it is part of what drew you to fashion as well, because you do seem to have a reverence for the past.
- [23:37]
Liz Goldwyn
That's fair. Well, my grandfather actually was the first person to bring Coco Chanel to America back in the 20s. He hired her to make wardrobe for his stars and built her a replica of her atelier in Paris, in Hollywood, and hired, brought her to. He brought her first to New York, got a white bullet train to take her and her best friend, Misia Sartre, who there's a great biography of her if anyone's interested. She was also a patron of the arts. Hired this white bullet train, filled it with French champagne, Russian caviar, and American journalists to take her from New York to Los Angeles. And by the time she went to la, she was a household name in America. But actually the wardrobe Was kind of a disaster because Hollywood stars did not, at that time, they didn't want to look androgynous, chic. And this is a time when Chanel was synonymous with her jersey dress, you know, her black jersey dress that was made from maid's fabric. Hollywood stars wanted to have big shoulders and a small waist and look voluptuous. So it was kind. It was kind of, you know, a bit of a disaster. But I think it's probably in my DNA, this, you know, interest in. In bridging, in both like European design and the history of design, like high fashion, haute couture, but also Hollywood costumes and how clothes are used to create a character. So I think I always thought of clothing that way and especially vintage was that I could. It was almost like armor character. You know, you don't really need to. You can't. You don't necessarily have to be yourself. You can kind of try on a different personality through. Through what you choose to wear. And. And as I said, my father, you know, I grew up with him taking me to these fittings for his suits. I just absolutely loved it. I loved everything about it. Like, the idea of getting your wardrobe made is. I mean, it's like a total luxury.
- [25:37]
Lauren Sherman
And we should say your grandfather is the Goldwyn of Metro Goldwyn.
- [25:40]
Liz Goldwyn
Meyer, well, actually stole his logo. They stole our game and our logo. So we never had anything to do with mgm. He found. He made the first movie in Hollywood with Cecil B. DeMille called the squaw man in like 1914 or 1916. And then he founded a lot of what are now the president president Day Studios. But Metro Pictures bought the Goldwyn lot and named it and then stalled a guy called Louis B. Mayer to run it and then stole the Goldwyn Pictures logo, which was the lion roaring. And I've written about it on Star Fucker. And then they took my grandfather to court to try to sue him to stop using his own name, but he won. So I'm always a little prickly when people reference mgm. But yes, in fact, that is the same name. Long winded.
- [26:32]
Lauren Sherman
Wow, you really are ground zero for Hollywood. Just. It's very cool. Well, okay, so. But did you grow. Did you go to high school in LA or did you go to boarding school in Europe? How did you end up getting to New York when you were 17?
- [26:47]
Liz Goldwyn
And I went to. I was in. I went to. I went to a school. I went to a private school in LA called Westlake that is now Harvard Westlake. It became Harvard Westlake when I.
- [26:58]
Lauren Sherman
Yes, I was just reading this morning about you getting kicked out.
- [27:03]
Liz Goldwyn
No, I was not kicked out. I was invited to leave. There's a big difference. There's a big difference. Tori Spelman was a senior when I was a. When I was a freshman, and 90210 was on the air, so it was like I got invited. So cool. I went to boarding school on the east coast, which was such a trip because 90210 was on the air. So everyone, everyone immediately was like, oh, my God, 90210. I was mortified. Yeah, I really didn't. I didn't even know any other people whose families weren't artists or in the movie business until I went to boarding school. And I was like, oh, there's a whole other world out there. So that's how I got to New York at a young age and was just like, I don't want to go to a regular college. I've just done, you know, three and a half years on a east coast campus. I want to, you know, live, start my career, go to art school. Get smoother, brighter skin instantly. In one easy step. Dermalogica's daily microfoliant gives you the smooth, glowy skin you want without damaging your skin barrier. This gentle exfoliating powder activates with water to smooth out rough texture and brighten skin. It's powerful enough to deliver results, yet gentle enough to use every single day, even on sensitive skin. See the results for yourself, visit dermatologists and use code smooth at cart for an exclusive free gift with $65 purchase.
- [28:35]
Lauren Sherman
I know you worked with Fabian Barron in the early days as well. What was it like with him and Karine and that? Like, late 90s, early 2000s fashion world?
- [28:50]
Liz Goldwyn
Okay, so when I worked for Fabian, I was, like, 17, and he was working. He was working the creative director of Harper's Bazaar under Liz Tilbaras, and he was also doing Calvin Klein. And Right. The summer I started, he. It was when. I think it was like, the FBI, like, raided Cal. I don't. I might be making up stories, but they got upset about the ads. The ads with the wood panel thing that. And I showed up, like, everyone dressed in all black. Okay. I'm from California. I'm into vintage clothes. Vintage clothes are not a thing at all at that time, especially not in New York. And I show up and I'm wearing 1940s print dresses with, like, wooden Japanese platform shoes. And we're in this Philippe Stark, you know, concrete office. Everyone's in black. Patrick Lee, who's still a Close friend to this day. Like, took me under his wing there. And I'm clomping around this. These concrete floors and I go to. They'd send me to drop things off or pick them up at Calvin Klein. And they would get calls about my wardrobe, about how I was not in. I was, like, not dressed appropriately because. And I. I wasn't wearing all black and didn't look, you know, like chic. But Fabian was fabulous and he really liked me and let me get away with a lot. Like, he let me come in on the weekends and use the laser copper copier for art school. And once, one time. This is so bad, but it's a long time ago. One time I, you know, they did all. He did all the perfumes, right? Which is like a huge, big deal. Like, I would get sent in a car to Queens and, like, you'd go behind these armored doors because it's like all top secret. Like the perfume world and the perfume bottles. One weekend, I was using the laser copier during the weekend, and I broke all of the perfume samples accidentally. And the whole Philippe Stark, like, copier room sunk like perfume. But I didn't get in trouble because I think Fabian got a kick out of me just because I was so different probably than like the rest of the office. But he was fabulous. And Karine was so much fun. I took her to. I met her through Nicola Gasier, who made my wedding dress. And I took her shop vintage. She was really fun to take vintage shopping. She's got such good taste. I took her vintage shopping at the store Cherry in the East Village in New York, which is no longer around. And she was just fun, you know, she was like a lot more, you know, laid back than the American fashion editors. Cause it was like sort of a different, you know, it was a different vibe then. Not maybe not as much pressure.
- [31:34]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I mean, that is. To me, just hearing you talk about. It's also interesting because there was that minimalist thing happening. But then there was. That was the first era when anyone was. I feel like. I know in the 70s, people were buying stuff from the 40s, but it really was the first time when people were started to, like, all my friends wanted vintage dresses for their prom dresses, that sort of thing. But it still was so, so rare. It must have been really fun to be in the mix with those people in particular, because they were the ones who were shaping. Karine with Tom Ford, Fabian with Harper's Bazaar. They were shaping how the world dressed at that point. It was such a different ecosystem. In fashion, totally.
- [32:25]
Liz Goldwyn
Although I felt I was kind of disconnected from that. I mean, I knew like, Tom. I know Tom a little bit and stuff, but I wasn't wearing those kind. I was probably too young to wear those clothes back then because it was quite young at the time. But also it wasn't. I was more into like Martin, you know, deconstructionist, Japanese fashion and young design. I worked with Shiseido. I worked with a lot of younger emerging designers. So I was always, you know, I. I didn't really dress like so, you know, high fashion. I didn't. Wouldn't have bought those kind of things. I think if any, if I was going to spend money, it would have been like, you know, I would have wanted. I would buy stuff at the Staff USA sample sales.
- [33:06]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, that's awesome.
- [33:08]
Liz Goldwyn
And my friends, like, from that I'm still friends with, from that period who are also collectors, like Chloe Sevigny. We would, you know, if we were going to buy new stuff, we would probably buy it at a sample sale like Comme des garcon, Margiela Jr. Yoshi. Or we were wearing a lot of our young designer, like friends our age who are designers or we were shopping vintage, you know, we were into like, you know, Victorian, you know, shirt, like linen and lace or. Yeah.
- [33:37]
Lauren Sherman
When you were shopping and collecting at that time, were you thinking at all of it being a collection and whether you would save it? Or was that not part of the. Or was it just more sort of a flow of your friends? With Nicola, he makes you something. You go to the sample sale, you go to Cherry. Or was even at that time, were you thinking, oh, this is. I'm sort of building something.
- [34:06]
Liz Goldwyn
Oh, definitely. Because. Because of Sotheby's. When I was 13, I was collecting with. While I wear this when I'm in my 40s. And then by the time I was 17 and working with Sotheby's, I realized because I got connected to a global group of dealers and museums and curators and like, and collectors in that world, I realized, oh my God, I've already been building a collection. Like, I've already have all this crazy stuff and now I better learn how to take care of it. And that's when I started like people. Like, for example, when Eddie Slima, who was a good friend of mine, when he left Dior, he was like, I'm sending you stuff to put in your archive for me. Like when you knew that they were going to, you know, like, so design. Same thing with Nicola, he sent me a bunch of stuff just because people started to know, oh, like, I'll hold onto this and I will either I'll like loan it out for museums or I'll give it to museums later. You know, I had a relationship with the Met Costume Institute. Like people kind of knew that I would take care of it. So. Yeah, no, yeah, no, by that time I definitely was like, I was, I was, I was seeing it as a collection.
- [35:21]
Lauren Sherman
How do you manage it? Do you have storage in different areas? Is it all in la? Like, how. And through the years, how did that change?
- [35:31]
Liz Goldwyn
I have climate controlled storage in la. If anyone that's listening to this knows of any people in London. I have a little closet purge that I need to do here with some more because it's such a problem. I have like a 1960s Yves Saint Laurent Russian baby doll dress. I've got a 1970s really great Calvin Klein hooded coat with like fur. So if anyone wants to come and clear out my closet and that would be great. I don't want to store shit here. I, I mean, my dream, the wet dream is, have you ever been to the Musee Saint Laurent archives in Paris where they have the steel, vaulted, climate controlled closets that like open up like a bank vault?
- [36:14]
Lauren Sherman
I've been to the museum there and to this kind of studio, but I have not been in the archives. That sounds amazing.
- [36:21]
Liz Goldwyn
Oh, it's insane. So they look like, like, like almost like, you know, shell like Libra meets bank vault. And they slide open and so there's rows of hanging and then they have drawers to lay flat, all the velvets and the jerseys and the beaded pieces and the knits. And that would be the dream, like if, you know, you had a whole situation of team. I don't. Mine is not like that, but it is like, it is pretty well organized and it's in all like, you know, archival garment bags and everything. And I've been slowly purging with Arcade vintage in la and they have a bunch of my stuff online too. And I think it's Arcade vintage. And then it's probably on the homepage with, with my name or maybe you can put a link in this episode. But he's been slowly. I, I've been slowly giving him things and it's like pulling teeth. And you know, the last time he was there, there are even things where he's like, you don't need this. Comme des garcon pink long pencil skirt with the hands, with the padded hands. And I'm like, I absolutely do. Like, I will wear that when I'm 60, but we can talk then. And maybe you have it. So I'm trying to make a dent because I, like, have this fear of being, like, 80 and being a total hoarder, you know, with like, even all the, like, love letters I've ever been written and all, like, my books and just. I just. I'm so, so.
- [37:52]
Lauren Sherman
God, I want to read those. That sounds fun. You should publish them.
- [37:58]
Liz Goldwyn
I have put a couple funny ones in Star Fucker behind the Paywall, written by high school boyfriends that are just so hilarious. Oh, my God.
- [38:08]
Lauren Sherman
I. I got to see some of the collection at Arcade that day. And I will say this, that Fontana, and we will link to this stuff. The Fontana bowler hat dress makes me want to go on GLP1 so I can get it.
- [38:26]
Liz Goldwyn
Do not fit into that dress. Did you try?
- [38:29]
Lauren Sherman
I can't. I have. I have a. Oh, actually, you. The waist. Maybe I could. I didn't try it on. I'll go down there this weekend and try it. It's so great.
- [38:41]
Liz Goldwyn
The construction of the back of that dress is so, so beautiful. And I have. I think I told you this that day. I have a Fontana Sisters of Rome horse hair, black horsehair bustier, ball gown. And ball gown that belonged to. It was worn by Ava Gardner to the Oscars, like, back in the 50s. And a family friend gave it to me when I was, like, 22. And I've worn it once for a shoot for Japanese Vogue, and it just sits in my archives. It's so amazing. And, you know, one day, hopefully it'll go to a museum, but. So I was actually upset about getting. About selling that. But I also would love for people to know about the Fontana Sisters of Rome.
- [39:22]
Lauren Sherman
Tell us a little more about them.
- [39:24]
Liz Goldwyn
They were making. They were sisters based in Rome and, like, kind of the height of, like, Roman couture in the 1950s and 60s. They made a lot of wardrobe for the. Those luscious Italian models, movie stars of yore, like, you know, Ava Gardner and Sophia Loren and Anna Manyani and. And I think, you know, women designers are so woefully underrepresented in both the lexicon of fashion history and today that I just think anytime that we can kind of shed some light on some of those. Some of those people from the past is. Is pretty fabulous. So that's why I put that in there more so that, like, I. Some things I price, like, I don't want to sell it. I don't care if no one buys it. And then some things I was like, we have to have a lot of stuff that's under a hundred dollars for, you know, kids who are just really want like a 1950s bullet bra. Because yeah, when I started collecting it.
- [40:26]
Lauren Sherman
Was cheap and, and I love that you did it with Arcade because I, I just think that store is great and, and it's fun to go in there and try stuff on. And they do have like a real, really great mix of sizing and, and the pieces are just. It, the pricing feels correct and the pieces are just so, so good. It, it's really fun. How did you decide to start doing this? I know Chloe has done at least one of these sales. A lot of people who are sort of of your ilk, like a prominent bold faced name who also is very into fashion, have done these archive sales recently of their, of their collections. What made you decide to do it right now? Just the hoarder thing.
- [41:19]
Liz Goldwyn
Oh, the hoarder thing. Yeah. I'd been planning it for a long time, like many years, like pre pandemic. I was like, I gotta make a dent in this amount of garment racks, in my storage space. I gotta consolidate. And then when Chloe did hers, she connected me with Liana and she, she helped me out with the first one. But you know, Richard, who as Arcade I've known forever because he comes from the vintage fair world, which I'm a prominent member of that scene where you get there during the early buy and you are not there to socialize. So you cannot go with anyone who's not also a collector because you are there to shop, not there to make friends. It's extremely competitive. You're just like. I've had designers follow me around those things before to see what I'm buying. So I, you know, he knows he's a real one. And a lot of these people I've known for a long time just from coming up in that world. So, you know, game recognizes game. Like he's, he's. I've competed with him for stuff before, but also when he launched A Current Affair, which he also owns, I did like a curation of clothes for the first one and I think it was Tommy Ton, like did a shoot shoot of me in a vintage Ozzie Clark dress there. So we have history. So it just kind of made sense. I knew he'd take care of me and respect the clothes.
- [42:40]
Lauren Sherman
I didn't know he owned A Current Affair. That makes so much sense. And I'm such a big fan, such a great show and I feel like it's also launched a Desert Vintage. But there are many other versions of that that they were really launched in A Current Affair and, or made national brands.
- [42:59]
Liz Goldwyn
Yeah.
- [42:59]
Lauren Sherman
And so. Oh, that's. That's super interesting. I'm also very conscious of the fact that I'm saying that's interesting because of the conversation we had that you mentioned that anytime I'm sort of like, need to do a transition, I'll be like, interesting.
- [43:16]
Liz Goldwyn
You also say it when you want to shade someone but you don't want to do it. You say interesting, which is what in Hollywood we say. It's actually the, the kiss of death. You go see like someone's like a friend screening and they're like, what'd you think? You're like, it's interesting.
- [43:32]
Lauren Sherman
That's so funny. I, I feel it. I do occasionally use a shade, as I was telling you. One of my friends partners used to say it all the time and we would sort of like tease him about it. He'd be like, interesting, interesting, interesting. And then my husband and I just started saying it all the time too. But in actuality, but it is funny. I've been noticing it more when I'm like, okay, I need to transition. And then I pop in and interesting.
- [44:07]
Liz Goldwyn
We all belong outside.
- [44:08]
Lauren Sherman
We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to to or the succulents that adorn our homes. Nature makes all of our lives, well, better. Despite all this, we often go about.
- [44:21]
Liz Goldwyn
Our busy lives removed from it.
- [44:23]
Lauren Sherman
But the outdoors is closer than we realize. With alltrails, you can discover trails nearby and explore confidently with offline maps and on trail navigation. Download the free app today.
- [44:38]
Liz Goldwyn
When you hear Lululemon, you probably think.
- [44:40]
Lauren Sherman
Of Align yoga pants.
- [44:41]
Liz Goldwyn
Weightlessly soft, like you're wearing next to nothing. That's why you see them in class.
- [44:46]
Lauren Sherman
At the grocery store and in the park.
- [44:49]
Liz Goldwyn
But did you know about skirts with built in liner shorts so you can still jump for the Frisbee and tanks and bodysuits? With Align's iconic stretch, you won't want to take it off. And with endless style options, you don't have to shop in store or online@lululemon.com.
- [45:11]
Lauren Sherman
So you've done so much. You are a prolific writer. You have this amazing substack. You've written all these books. I don't know if you'll remember this, but I met you first when I worked at Lucky magazine. And Alexis Brian Morgan, who I assume you're friends with, we had this series and it's funny Alexis came up early. She's come up on this podcast before. I'm a huge fan. And she came up earlier this week at a dinner because I was with, like, a bunch of old school. Not old, but old school Conde editors. But Alexis and I did this shopping video, or I did. I was doing the shopping video series, like how I shop. I did one with Alexa Chung. I didn't do very many, but we did one with you at a laundry.
- [45:59]
Liz Goldwyn
Store, and I wanted to showcase a vibrator, and it got cut. I was. Oh, did it censored. I saw Alexa Chung last night, actually, at the.
- [46:08]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, funny.
- [46:12]
Liz Goldwyn
Another person I've known for a long time. Yes, it got cut. I showed a vi. I was like, we need to talk about vibrators and how important it is. If we're talking about lingerie and women's pleasure, let's talk about vibrators. Because this. I forgot what laundry shop we were in. It was in New York.
- [46:28]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [46:29]
Liz Goldwyn
And. And I even have a picture of me and Alexis posing with this vibrator. And Lucky censored it.
- [46:36]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, my God.
- [46:37]
Liz Goldwyn
This is pre. When, you know, mainstream media decided it was okay to speak about sexual wellness in tandem with, you know, women's issues in fashion.
- [46:47]
Lauren Sherman
But this is still when they were doing COVID testing and they were like, oh, speaking of that, we all wanted Alexa Chung to be on the COVID And they were like, she's too niche. She's too, like, it was just such a dumb time. That's so funny that they. They cut it out. Well, if you have any recommendations, now, we won't cut it out. And also, I'll link to that. How did. But you did. Your career evolved into. You were. You are friends with Dita Von Teese, but, like, you are interested in burlesque. You were. You had. You have the sex ed, which is this big sexual education, sexual wellness platform. But how you started writing a lot. How did you go from working at Shazado and with these designers and brands and being amused and all that stuff to this much bigger, broader career?
- [47:42]
Liz Goldwyn
I was already writing that first book. I. My first book, Pretty Things, which is about the last generation of American burlesque queens and advent of striptease. That I wrote my first book, my first documentary, which I sold to hbo, also called Pretty Things that, you know, that was a really long time to, like, make that film and write that book of research. So I was working corporate jobs simultaneously as making that.
- [48:06]
Lauren Sherman
Those.
- [48:07]
Liz Goldwyn
That film and writing that book. So it wasn't like, really, I transit, you know, it wasn't like leaving one into another. It was just, that was always, that was always happening. In fact, I remember like an early, early on in making Pretty Things at Vogue ran a picture of me and they said like, what would you do? They asked all these people, what'd you do if someone gave you a thousand dollars right now? And I said I would use it towards this film. And I remember the sort of the fashion people being really horrified that I was interested in strippers and sacks and burlesque and that was just, wasn't really not fashionable at all for most of my career, honestly up until really the like 20, 2020. I would say 29, 2018, 29, maybe 20, 19, 2020 is when sexual wellness started to be more co opted by the fashion world. But until then it was a bit of an uphill battle. And I think the fashion, me having any sort of profile in fashion maybe shed more light on the sort of more taboo subjects that I was always interested in. Like, even when I made that first film and sold it to hbo, I remember being embarrassed because I was afraid that they were going to find out that I had a profile in the fashion world and that I wouldn't be taken seriously as a documentary filmmaker. And they were like, what, are you kidding? This is amazing. Elle and Vogue never want to feature documentary films. So it was almost like, oh, this, this area, fashion has like so much reach that you can kind of use it to bring attention to subjects that people would otherwise like, ignore. So yeah, it was, it was. For me it was. It's kind of seamless, the going in and out.
- [49:50]
Lauren Sherman
And how much of just talking about lingerie for a minute, how much of that is connected to like, it's so much about construction. So do you see if you look, you know so much about the history of fashion, you know, obviously know so much about the history of lingerie, the two things together. Is it all sort of, does it all run in parallel because of the. If you have a certain silhouette, you need something. If you're wearing a drop waist dress, you might not wear a bra. But if you're wearing something more like is it all just sort of as we would imagine or are there deviations in terms of innovations in construction or the sort of path which those two mediums went down. Does that make any sense?
- [50:41]
Liz Goldwyn
Yeah, I mean it's interesting when you say that because when you say, oh, if you're wearing a drop waist dress, you wouldn't wear a bra. And in my head I'm thinking, but I, I'm definitely wearing a bra because I have boobs. So I. So there's things that I feel like I can't really wear because they don't have enough support. There's things that look fantastic on someone with smaller, smaller breasts because they, you know, like a. More like a, like a 70s halter cut, backless, low cut dress looks really fabulous on someone who maybe has smaller cups because, you know, they're not thinking about that. And you know, going back laundry is so personal. Like when I worked at Sotheby's, we did the Marlena Dietrich sale, who was a movie star back in the day, and we sold well. I say you're smiling because you know who she is, but a lot of people don't know who she is.
- [51:31]
Lauren Sherman
No, I appreciate the narration. We need it. Because a lot of times people will be like, I don't know who you were talking about.
- [51:37]
Liz Goldwyn
She is fabulous. Look her up. She's on many a designer mood board. But anyways, we sold, we did her archive and she had all these like 70s courage, which a very famous actress bought. But I'm not really. I'm still holding to that Sotheby's code of not saying who it was. But inside her 70s courage pantsuits, she had interior corsetry done the same as she had in her 1950s Christian Dior couture. Because she felt like for her own comfort and the way she felt about her body, even though the silhouette was like a 70s garage pantsuit that you wouldn't imagine there being like interior corsetry on, she needed it to feel good about herself. So although you may think in some ways lingerie can develop in tandem with what's happening in fashion and in other ways, it's just so personal. Like, even at Sotheby's, we'd go into someone's closet and you would know if someone had a mastectomy because of the interior, you know, a ball gown would have, you know, padding in it. So it's just, it reveals, even if clothing we look at as like the psychology of someone going in their closet, what they want to express about themselves. The laundry is almost like what you keep hidden. You know what your deeper insecurities are, or you know, how you feel good about yourself in a way that you don't show to everyone.
- [53:02]
Lauren Sherman
Do you think you mentioned that sort of the sexual wellness thing being co opted by fashion in, in recent years? And also just. I don't know how much you're on Instagram, but my Instagram is just like, I'm 42. It's. It's just like hormones, hormones, hormones, sexual wellness, blah, blah, blah. Like protein, all that stuff.
- [53:22]
Liz Goldwyn
Yeah.
- [53:23]
Lauren Sherman
So it's just kind of perimenopause words that people didn't ever use. Do you think, as a cultural anthropologist, do you think that society is more prudish than it used to be overall? Or do you think that's just a faction of people who are really like, pushing back on progression and the reality is, like, people are more open today than they were even 10 years ago?
- [53:52]
Liz Goldwyn
Well, this is not a political podcast, as you've made clear in the past, being a listener. But there's no as. As. We're going into a place where we can't turn back the clock. Right. In terms of what's happening with how we see the world and how we live and how we express ourselves and talking about things that definitely I never heard heard spoken about. When I was like, you know, a Teenager in my 20s or even my 30s, no one was talking about perimenopause or menopause. There were no celebrities like Naomi Watts having, you know, a line, a range of products, or Gwyneth Paltrow. There were no Hollywood celebrities talking about these issues or Halle Berry. Absolutely not. Which I think is amazing that, like, we're raising a whole new generation of women that are growing up being like, oh, I'm going to age and I'm still going to have sex. How amazing. But at the same time, like, there's like, in the same way that you compared, like the individuality of kids buying unreal roll versus the homogenization that's going on, there's obviously also culturally this huge rolling back of all rights that that's happening at the same time. So it's a little bit like you don't know which. You don't know which way to turn in all of this. So. Yeah.
- [55:08]
Lauren Sherman
How has having that substack been for you in terms of being able to write about. You have a lot of ideas and thoughts and obviously you've written many books, but has this given you what has having. And you had sex ed and you did tons of writing and work around that. What has the star fucker done for you in terms of engaging with people on topics and just generally what's it been like?
- [55:38]
Liz Goldwyn
It's so fun. It's so fun because it's kind of like I. And it's really great discipline for me as a writer. And I'm sure, you know, for you having deadlines as a journalist throughout your whole career, it's just like you're sharpening your tool constantly and you're really having to, you know, it helps you, I think, become even a better writer and just refine your ideas and, you know, try things out. I mean, I've. I've got like a stack of 20 different drafts that I have to keep pushing back because there's things I want to react to in real time or, you know, but I, I love it. And it's also fun to connect to a lot of other writers and also journalists because I love, you know, there's so many like fashion journalists like yourself or Marissa or Amy o'. Dell. I love her. Substack is so fun. I mean, there's so many people I follow on there and there's a lot of snark and shade, which I like on substack. And I also like, I like that there. I really am bummed out on Instagram and I have been less engaging with it, particularly since, since January. And there's just no nuance. So I like that it kind of fills my need for some kind of social platform. Although I don't really use their notes app. But, you know, it kind of just connects you with a lot of people and, and it makes me feel less precious, I think, with like my ideas.
- [57:07]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, you're only as good as your last story. And that you can feel that when you're, when you're doing it so quickly I really admire. I've. I co wrote one book about Victoria's Secret. We should have called you about it actually. But I found it incredibly challenging because there's only one deadline and that really isn't. I had to tell our editor I need a real deadline because it was so hard for me as someone who I'm really good at making my deadlines, but one looming in the future, whereas I have one every day and that I can handle. It's an interesting. It. It makes your mind work in a different way than, than like long form writing and, and writing a book that takes many years or many months is so different from banging something out in a couple hours, essentially.
- [58:03]
Liz Goldwyn
I mean, and I'm on the. I'm on the beginning. I am at starting a new book that's going to take me a long time. And so it's. It's actually really, really fun to be able to like get out ideas, you know, in that way. I love it.
- [58:20]
Lauren Sherman
Liz, this was so fun. It's really fun to know you and I love that you're a person in the world.
- [58:25]
Liz Goldwyn
Oh, thank you. I love that you're a person in the world too and you know, keep on throwing the shade and talking about the gluten free bakeries because I'm also, I'm also celiac. So I, I like that content.
- [58:41]
Lauren Sherman
I'll send you a list. And have you been to any in Paris? There are really good ones there are there.
- [58:47]
Liz Goldwyn
I don't get to Paris. Yeah much. I'm going to Warsaw for the first time. When this podcast comes out. I will actually be on a research trip to Poland and so I'm trying to figure out where I can get a gluten free pierogi.
- [59:02]
Lauren Sherman
You know. You know what, I will ask my husband because he is celiac and he is also Polish. Oh really? His mother is from Poland. Yes. So he has not been in to pull in probably 20 years. But he is on a lot of gluten free message boards and things.
- [59:19]
Liz Goldwyn
I love that.
- [59:19]
Lauren Sherman
So if there is a place where you can get a gluten free. Also, I grew up, my grandparents were Russian Orthodox so I grew up eating a lot of pierogies and things, even more so than he did. And so I have also researched this previously. So I will, I will.
- [59:37]
Liz Goldwyn
I need to know. I'm going. I need to honor my ancestors who are Polish Jews and eat some pierogies.
- [59:44]
Lauren Sherman
You do. I can't wait to to read about it either in your book or on your substack. But thank you again for doing this. Everyone. Check out Liz's sale. We're going to put a bunch of links to good stuff, but hopefully that dress will be mine before. Before this goes up.
- [59:59]
Liz Goldwyn
Thank you.
- [60:00]
Lauren Sherman
Thank you. This was so fun. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This shoe was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of Editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.