Tina Lanen (4:43)

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Kristen (4:46)

What did you have for breakfast this morning?

Tina Lanen (4:48)

Oh, I thought you might ask. And I didn't have anything special just because you might ask, but I had some of this bread that I'm in love with that I've been eating for years. It's a local baker. Her brand is called the Night Owl Baker and it's a triple fermented sourdough bread. I think it's a half rye, half wheat and it is incredible. So I have that with some nice almond butter. And also because it's such a good apple season, I have local apples. And that's my breakfast this morning.

Kristen (5:26)

Wow, that sounds perfect. Triple fermented. You're really speaking my language. That's My dream. Brett, that sounds so good.

Tina Lanen (5:34)

I'll send you some. It's amazing.

Kristen (5:37)

I would love that, actually. It sounds so good. So you live on Long Island?

Tina Lanen (5:44)

Yes, I live in Sag Harbor.

Kristen (5:45)

And how long have you lived there?

Tina Lanen (5:47)

For Long Island, I've probably lived full time, about 12 years.

Kristen (5:51)

What's it like living out there?

Tina Lanen (5:54)

It's wonderful.

Kristen (5:56)

I've spent very little time there. Do you feel. And we had some reader requests to talk to you about how things have changed since you've lived there. But the time that I have spent out there, it feels so far from the city, even though it's so connected to the city in terms of, like, people going in and out constantly, but the time it actually takes to get there is. It's like living in a different state or something. It's far. What has your experience been? Someone who grew up in Europe and lived in Europe and lived in New York and moving somewhere like that?

Tina Lanen (6:36)

Well, I don't think it's far. I mean, I can feel so far. To me, I can get to the city from here. Not during the summer, but, like, off season. I can get to the city in two hours. And, you know, you take the Ambassador, which is very chill, very comfortable. You listen to a podcast like yours.

Kristen (6:55)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (6:55)

And then you're there. I mean, it's. It's not far at all. The thing that has happened to me is I lived in Manhattan for 12 years, and while I was still working as a stylist, and I had my busy, busy, busy life, which I feel like that's the New York City life. Once I left and started to live here, I realized that each place has its, like, you know, pluses. And the pluses here are that you. I think it's a healthier environment from every point of view. It's physically, mentally, emotionally healthier because you are connected to nature. You are. You're just living a different life. The energy is different here, and you don't have all the distractions that city offers or the pressure that the city gives you. So I'm happy here. I really love it. And I don't go to the city much anymore. I feel like it's not my place anymore. I don't feel like it has anything that I need in my life. It sounds weird, but.

Kristen (8:03)

No, I understand that. I hope that someday I feel that way about it.

Tina Lanen (8:08)

You're. You're young. You. It'll. You'll. You know, you'll find your happy place, like a calmer place that. That gives you that feeling that your Quality of life is as. As good as it can be, and you have everything that you need and want where you are.

Kristen (8:29)

I feel that way in Los Angeles. The interesting thing about moving here and then going back to New York all the time. I was in New York for 15 years is that I don't have any desire to live there. And when I'm there, I'm not like, oh, I'm so. I'm the opposite. I'm always very tense, but at the same time, I'm like, I need to get back. I need to get back. I need to get back. I need to do all my things. I need to do all my things. And I hope someday I don't feel the need to go back so much. I'm planning a trip in mid January right now. It's so dumb. It's like I'm truly an addict, and New York is my drug. It's crazy.

Tina Lanen (9:11)

But it's also because of your work. You are still in the game. You know what I mean? And it's. The game is in New York, and if you are still, you know, that's. That's where it is. It's not. It's certainly not out on Long Island. You know, it's like, if you work in fashion, this is not the epicenter of the American fashion. This is something else.

Kristen (9:35)

I don't know, Tina. The store felt like it for a while. So. So how did you get into the game? You grew up in Southern Finland?

Tina Lanen (9:42)

Yes.

Kristen (9:43)

Were you interested in fashion as a child? Like, how did you end up moving to Paris and going to school there, modeling?

Tina Lanen (9:51)

Well, I grew up in a very small town right on the Russian border in an area of Finland called Karelia, which is very pretty. I was very blessed. I. My mother, she made all our clothes when we were little, me and my siblings. And she taught me how to sew, how to knit, how to crochet, how to do all these things. And she had a very simple but very wonderful style about her. Like, the clothes she wore were always very nice but humble. And I was interested in clothing because I was interested in beauty. And I remember looking through magazines and seeing the thing that really caught my eye. I don't know how old I was. Early teens was. The reports from Fashion Week in Paris and looking at all the glamorous, especially Yves Saint Laurent, it totally spoke to me. I was like, wow, this is beautiful. This is special. This is extraordinary. And as I got older or very early on, I was very specific about my own clothes. Never wanted to wear anything that Anyone else wore, started to make my own clothes. And I was good at, like, drawing, making things, and I thought, this should be my. My career. I want to be a fashion designer. So I had applied to go to a fashion design school in Finland, and right before I was about to start my school, I ended up leaving Finland and going to Paris to be a model. I got scouted and. And that was such an eye opener. I mean, I really got to see the fashion world from the inside and get a, you know, this incredible insight of the clothing, the designers, the people, the business, and. But I did not love modeling. I. It wasn't like, you know, this is the 80s. And I'll always remember, like, being made up with, like, because I was very pale, fake tan, blue eyeshadow, tons of makeup. And I felt like, whoa, this is not me. I felt very connected to the. More like the Japanese aesthetic. And one of my very first jobs was to be in the Comme des Garcons show. And that I still have the total visual memory of walking into that tent in the Tuileries and seeing this army of these tiny little Japanese women that look like an army of women all in black. And the shows were fantastic. They were fantastic. They were like, blew my mind. Like, wow, this is it. This is the great fashion. So I kind of decided that I was only going to do the modeling for as long as I could make enough money to buy an apartment and then go back to school and study fashion design. So that's what I did. I went to that very famous. Because I wanted to learn the craft. And so I wanted to go to the Ecole de la Chambre Syndical de la Couture, which has a different name now, but it's the old school that people like St. Lauren went to, Issey Miyake went to. Loads of really talented people went to because they really taught you, like, the draping, the pattern cutting, the, of course, sketching. And I just love the idea that you could learn something in a more traditional way rather than studying and learning how to be cool and trendy. I didn't want that. And not that that was really happening in Paris in the 80s anyway. But so, yeah, I went to school and I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And then, I mean, very luckily, a friend of mine, friend of mine.

Kristen (13:56)

I.

Tina Lanen (13:57)

Got to meet Karl Lagerfeld through a friend of mine who offered me an internship at Chanel, which was, you know, again, totally blew my mind. I couldn't believe it. I said, my life is like a Cinderella story. It Truly is. And I got my internship at Chanel in the design studio. Working with Carl, I think it might have been like, 88 or 89.

Kristen (14:22)

Early 89, maybe still very early in his tenure.

Tina Lanen (14:26)

Yes, yes. And I was there at that when things changed. It went from, like the era of Ines de la Fressange being the face of Chanel and the whole. In French you say Cabine. You know, the models, they were these couture models. And the shows were very much like more traditional Parisian fashion shows. And then the era of the supermodels, and in comes Claudia Schiffer and the rest of them. And so that was a very, very exciting time to work there.

Kristen (15:04)

What was he like? What was he like at that time, and what was your relationship like with him?

Tina Lanen (15:10)

I think he was extraordinary. I mean, he was an extraordinary talent as a designer. And also he was an extraordinary human being. We worked in a space. I can't remember which floor it was, but right above the store In Rue Cambon, 2931 Rue Cambon, in a tiny little space, two little rooms, there was a big desk that Gilles Defore manned, who was the head of the design studio. And when Carl came in, it was his desk. And then on one side was Victor de Castellan doing the jewelry. And then next to her was Virginie Villard doing handbags for the show, only the show bags and embroideries. And on the other side of the room was little me doing hats, flowers, buttons, swimwear, jeans, assisting the Ready to Wear coordinator. And then there was a couple of other people, like usually interns. And then in the little other room was the coordinator for the Ready to Wear and her assistant. So this is the team we worked with. This was the smallest team I've ever seen in any house. But that was a different time then. And the one point I wanted to make to you is because obviously there's so much talk about Chanel and what's happening there. And all this is, I can tell you, when I worked there, which was maybe three years, Carl designed every single thing. We're talking every single thing, every accessory was designed by Carl. Every piece of clothing was designed by Carl. Everything. There was no other designer. There was no stylist, nothing. He did it all. And this is unbelievable, considering at that time he was doing three different houses. But, you know, he would send us these packs of sketches with instructions, and our job was to get the prototypes done, get the things moving, get the, you know, everything. We would call in the suppliers and say, here are Carl sketches for the hats, here's Carl. Sketches for the, you know, shoes. Here's everything. And the ateliers would start working on sketches to do the toiles. But seriously, he designs every single teeny weeny bit of everything. And I think that's incredible. And I don't think that exists anywhere anymore. I don't think there are people who are capable of that kind of vision, talent, conviction, and ability to just churn out work like that. And that's why, you know, some of these names that being thrown around like, oh, could take over Chanel. I'm like, please. I know, because I don't know, maybe Chanel doesn't need a designer like that anymore, but this is like, this is the level that the house of Chanel was used to.

Kristen (18:33)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (18:33)

To have someone truly, truly a real designer.

Kristen (18:38)

So by the time this runs, the answer, we may have the answer of who. Who gets. Who got the job. But who do you think is interesting? Because it's funny, there are a couple names that were thrown out early on, and from what I've been told, like, those people were never even called. So it was an interesting. It's been a. And then there are other people that I know for sure who have interviewed and, and all that, but it's an interesting, like, approach that they've taken. But is there someone in your mind knowing the brand so well that you think is the right person for the next 20 years of, of the business, not. Not for the next two or five or what have you?

Tina Lanen (19:24)

I don't. I'm not even sure it needs to be 20 years. I would say 10 years, for sure.

Kristen (19:29)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (19:29)

I. I think, Hetty, you know, that.

Kristen (19:32)

Makes me feel good that you think that, Tina.

Tina Lanen (19:34)

I think so. Because, you know, for me, this is a job for someone who understands the culture, the, the history, the. The essence of Chanel. I don't think it should be someone who goes in and starts changing it into something else. I think Chanel is one of those houses where you have, like Carl actually did used to say Chanel is the easiest house to design for because it has all these elements that you can just stick on everything. You can make anything Chanel by putting the CC buttons, the gold chain, the camellias, the pearls, the tweeze. He always said it's the easiest. But I do feel like it needs that French je ne sais quoi that, that woman. It needs that French chic, that ease, that, that. I don't know how to describe it, but it needs that attitude that is very, very French. And it needs to come in the clothing and the woman, that woman, that Chanel woman is. And I think Eddie would do it beautifully. He would give it edge, which I think it needs.

Kristen (20:57)

I agree.

Tina Lanen (20:58)

But he would not sort of like, I don't know, I think it could go so wrong, so easy. And I think he would know how to handle those codes and do beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, and make it more youthful.

Kristen (21:18)

Yes, yes.

Tina Lanen (21:19)

And also the sophistication like that. His last collection, he did for Celine. You look at those clothes, they're exquisite for ready to wear. They are beautiful. They are beautifully made. And there is a sophistication that Chanel needs, which I don't think is there right now, but in the clothing.

Kristen (21:41)

I agree. I agree. It sounds like he is not. It's not going to happen. And this Matu Blasi thing is really. Feels really real. But we'll see. It's interesting. It's like a person who hasn't shown all his cards, which is.

Tina Lanen (22:02)

It's.

Kristen (22:03)

We don't know what he's capable of. Everyone else in the discussion, you kind of know what it would. And he's the only one that you don't. So whatever got him to this level of the conversation, he must have had some. A really extraordinary project. And I guess he's had so much success behind the scenes before. Bottega. I'm a huge fan. It's just interesting. It's definitely not. The other day, Amelia Petrarcher was on the podcast and said Chanel needs a bite. Like you mentioned, an edge. And I do think that's. Can he deliver that. I don't know. But it's. I think what the good thing about that idea is that people like him and are excited to see what he can accomplish. And we wouldn't know. There are some other people in the mix who. I think it would be disappointing. So we'll see. It's a new. It sounds like a really new changeover of how in many ways many of the people that, that you worked with were still there up until. I'm sure some of them are. Are still in Paris. So there is a new way of working and. And it is like the most exciting house because there's so many ingredients, but also the. The hardest because. Because there are such high expectations and people know it so much better than, like, if you think of something like Dior. No. 1 if a regular customer doesn't really know what a bar jacket is, but. But they definitely know what a little like tweed the boucle jacket is. From Chanel or that box jacket, you know, so that it's interesting. One question about that time for you. I read, I forget which biography years ago, but it was. Don't know if it was a Chanel biography or if it was about the whole company. It was more about the whole company. It came out in the 90s, I think, and there was a lot I was very interested in the early 90s there is when they really started to develop the handbag business and that's when it started to become much more successful. From your perch on the design team, could you see that change or just in the way, like your friends and people were shopping and in Paris of buying bags and shoes and things like that or, and, and this is. I don't want to get too off topic, but you, you obviously, you mentioned the Japanese. Let's, let's answer that first question first. And I want to go back to the Japanese really quickly because I think it might be related. But did you. Was there a sense, like, were people buying Chanel bags were like, when did that sort of pattern of behavior set in?

Tina Lanen (24:53)

Well, first of all, I don't know how many people know this, but during the Carl years, up till somewhere in the 90s, the actual Chanel bags that people would buy were not done by Carl. There was a separate design studio that was run by Francis Stein and her little office was a. Above our office. But there had been some kind of weird falling out between her and Carl, so she was not allowed to enter Carl's studio.

Kristen (25:23)

Oh my God.

Tina Lanen (25:24)

And so we never saw her. But she was the one who designed what was then called like the commercial collection of handbags and shoes and accessories. And Carl was only in charge of the show pieces. And the bags that people were buying were the ones that came from her studio. And I do remember going to work on Rue Cambon in the late 80s, early 90s. There was always a queue outside the store, but it was mostly Japanese people buying and they were only allowed to buy X number of bags because it was sort of the Japanese boom of economy and they had extra money and they wanted to buy, you know, luxury goods in Europe. And Chanel, rightly so, was sort of like top of their list. And. And they were buying the Chanel bags like crazy. It was unbelievable. But I don't think Chanel bag was sort of like a fashionable thing then at all.

Kristen (26:27)

Okay.

Tina Lanen (26:27)

At all. And for myself, I bought a red Kelly bag and Hermes was considered so bourgeois, so uncool, so like not fashionable, that for me that was the edge. Like, yeah, buy some granny bag that is so, like, beautifully made, exquisite, and. And in bright red. I remember I used to wear, like, a Chanel. No Hermes scarf wrapped around my head, red lipstick and that red bag, and then, like, a black Comme des Garcons dress. That was my kind of edge.

Kristen (27:09)

So cool.

Tina Lanen (27:10)

While working at Chanel, which I never wore Chanel and not it really, anyone else working there. And Carl liked that. He always said to me, he said, tina, you and I, we wear the best clothes because I walk home to garcon, and he will come to garcon.

Kristen (27:27)

So how did the Japanese influence the French and the European designers? And what was that dynamic? Like, I don't think I've ever spoken to anybody about it who was there and lived through it. What was that like, being there and them coming in? Because it was a totally. Like. When I think about, like, Issey Miyake, is it that line Plantation.

Tina Lanen (27:58)

Plantation, yeah.

Kristen (27:59)

Like, just that way of dressing. I know a lot of people were, like, obsessed with that when in that era and wore only Japanese designers, but it just feels like it must have been, like, so jarring for Europeans and Westerners and totally different from anything that had come before it. And so some ways, yeah, I think it was.

Tina Lanen (28:25)

It was all those things, and I think it was that. It was a reaction. People. People reacted really strongly and positively to all those clothes, because especially living in Paris, the. The. The fashion scene was very bourgeois and very classic, kind of boring. Like, there were no cool young designers. I mean, there was some designers like Thierry Mugler, Claude Montana, Jean Paul Gaultier, but it still had that Frenchiness, you know? So I think when the Japanese designers showed up, there was more of a freedom, like an artistic expression and freedom and. Yeah, like a. Like a serious twist to it. But I also think that at that time, for example, Comme des Garcons, there were always clothes that were kind of classic in the collection. The clothes now, they look like sculpture. You know, they look like you're like a performance artist showing up for some kind of, you know, thing. But in those days, you could buy Comme des garcons. And I always called it, like, classic with a twist, but like a serious twist.

Kristen (29:40)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (29:41)

And I think it was just. It was liberating. You could feel like you didn't have to look like you're all buttoned up and bourgeois and following some trends, like, awful and. Yeah, I think it just sort of. It's a look that either it speaks to you or it doesn't. And in My youth and in those early days in the 80s and 90s, that was my look and I loved it. I think it was just. They were fabulous, those clothes.

Kristen (30:17)

Yeah. How did you go from being a designer to being a stylist?

Tina Lanen (30:23)

Well, it's another Cinderella story, actually. When I was working at Chanel, one of my sort of responsibilities was hats. And in comes Philip Tracy, straight out of fashion college. And we became incredibly good friends and we're still very, very close. And I met. Actually, I met Isabella Blow at Chanel. She showed up to do a photo shoot with Carl. Carl photographing. These were early Carl photo days of photography, and I was one of the models. Carl liked to put me in his pictures. Like, middle of the night, Tina, go and stand there, hold this flowers or whatever, and take your picture. But anyway, this was a proper fashion shoot for British Vogue. And I met Isabella through that. And then I knew Philip through Chanel. And at one point, Philip was staying with me in my flat in Paris. And I was expressing my frustration of how kind of a little bit boring Paris was for me and how it wasn't very exciting and I might want to have a change. And he said, tina, you should be a fashion editor at Vogue. And he seriously said it like that. And I said, yeah, why not? And he was like, okay, I'm going to put Isabella to this and she's going to get you an interview at Vogue. So off I went to London and I had left Chanel already at that, and I was working at Lanvin for very.

Kristen (32:06)

Who was the designer at Lanvin at that time?

Tina Lanen (32:08)

There was nobody. It was sort of like a team. It was after Claude Montana was either, I don't know, kicked out or left. And so I was there, part of the design team doing knitwear and accessories. Reason? It was, it was nothing. It was. It was not very exciting and I knew it was not going to go anywhere. So at that point, Philip was like, come to London, get a job at Vogue. And I still remember going to my interview wearing a beautiful Chanel blouse of black lace and chiffon and red lipstick for all my portfolio stuff that I had designed and whatever. And at that time, Alexander Schulman was the editor in chief. And she asked me, why do you want to be a fashion editor? You are a designer. I said, I can't believe I said this. I said, well, for me, it's really the same thing. One is not so different than the other. And, you know, I have my experience being a model. I know about photography. I work with Carl on Photo shoots. And I think I love photography, I love fashion and I didn't even realize what a big deal it was. But then she had me do a, like a photo shoot as a test to see if I could manage it and she really liked the pictures and she offered me a job and next thing I know I was in London as a junior fashion editor to begin with at British Vogue.

Kristen (33:32)

Where did you live in London?

Tina Lanen (33:34)

I lived in London in Maida Vale and in the end Notting Hill, and then I ended up in Queensborough park at the end.

Kristen (33:42)

Did you like living in London? I mean, during that era that was really a big moment for that city and, and the British culture kind of seeping out into the rest of the world.

Tina Lanen (33:55)

Yes, that was the era of what they call Cool Britannia. Yeah, it was sort of like, yes. So there's so many exciting things happening and I, I feel like I hit Paris in a really good time and I hit London at a very good time. And I was lucky to have friends like Isabella and Philip who then sort of introduced me to Alexander McQueen, all these brilliant people. And then of course, through my work at Vogue, I got to work with incredible, incredibly talented people and do really the sort of photo shoots that I don't think those could happen ever again. It's a different time and different thing. But yeah, I was very lucky, lucky to be in London at that time.

Kristen (34:47)

Are there any photo shoots that are really memorable to you? Maybe the outcome or just the experience of being on them?

Tina Lanen (34:57)

I, I loved working, you know, photographers that have like real vision. And in the earlier days when I worked there, it was still film, you know, people, you would shoot film only there was no digital photography. So working with people like Jurgen Teller, David Sims, Nick Knight, you know, just people who were really, who knew what they were doing, you know what I mean? It's like they have a world, they have a woman, they have a vision and you kind of just enter that world and work with them and that's exciting, that's really, really fun. And there were less restrictions about like what you could shoot and what you couldn't. So I remember one of my Jurgen Tellef shoots, the theme was latex.

Kristen (35:55)

That's awesome.

Tina Lanen (35:56)

So we had Stephanie Seymour and Jurgen working with a large format camera, which was not at all his typical technique. And all the clothes were sort of latex and it's fabulous, I mean, beautiful, like Manola blue blah Blahnik patent leather shoes, like gorgeous killer shoes. And her looking incredible wearing these, you know, full on rubbery dresses and it's just fabulous.

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Kristen (38:34)

Being in that world with Isabella blow and Alexander McQueen and and everything like Cool Britannia Coming up, could you feel the like significance of McQueen and Galliano living in London and and what they were contributing overall to to fashion? Like in the moment? Did it feel as big as it does now? Looking back?

Tina Lanen (39:04)

I don't. I'm not. I never worked with Galliano. I would photograph his clothes. It's less my sensibility in a way. Sort of. It's a little too Costumey. But Alexander, from day one, I knew he was brilliant. And that goes back to like in the same kind of way that Carl was. He had sort of all the tools, had full control of his work. Alexander had the same thing. He, you know, he knew how to cut, how to tailor, how to sew, how to. And he had this incredible world that he was inspired by and his vision and he's. It was just very multi dimensional and deep and unique and. But just by going by the clothes, I could tell that he was a unique, Very, very unique once in a, I don't know, generation or more talent. And I have some clothes that he made for me and some of which were actually at the Met exhibition. Because I met him very early on in his career. I always say I knew him really well before he became famous. So those clothes, just putting on a jacket that looks kind of like it doesn't have much, it has no padding, has no, no, not much structure in it. But you put it on and it looks the most hyper tailored, most precise thing I've ever worn. And that's talent. That's someone who knows what they're doing. So I always, I told him, I know that people think that this is something Isabella said, but no, she did not. I told him, I said, alexander, you're the next Yves Saint Laurent. And he laughed at me because I felt like he had that. Not the same way as Saint Laurent, but, you know, just the full picture of talent. And I still think so. I don't think there has been anyone like him since him. And, you know, it's just because it was him. And in the same way as Carl was Carl, because it was Carl. It takes a lifetime of living and learning and practicing to become a master like that. And that's what, you know, Alexander was.

Kristen (41:47)

I lived in the UK in the mid 2000s and I remember I went to this houser and Worth, I don't know if they were opening a new location or something. And they had this event in a courtyard that was tented and there was some sort of buffet because this was. I mean, I was 21, I had no money and I was always like going to events to eat for, for free. And Isabella Blow was there and she was wearing a McQueen suit and a hat. And I just remember it was the most chilling, one of the most chilling experiences of my life. Just because her presence was so. And I wasn't, I was really into. I read British Vogue as a teenager and was like it. But I'm, I wasn't super Educated about. I knew who she was, but wasn't like, oh, my God, it's Isabella Blow. But I just remember seeing her, and it felt like the room stopped. Like, her presence was so intense for me, and I. I'll never forget it, but it. It was such a. When you. In. In the 90s, as. As the industry, like, I think about it from the business perspective and looking back, and that was sort of the end of it being this cottage industry. And everything started the Arnault and. And the first Pinot rose up, and Arnaud started to hire all these people. Could you feel that change? Like, that was like, the beginning of the consolidation of luxury and it becoming really the luxury industry and not the fashion industry. Could you sense that then, or was it too early? Or what did you think of, like, Arnaud hiring all these young guys for these jobs? Was it. Were people excited because people were getting paid? What was the feeling about it?

Tina Lanen (43:41)

I think, obviously, Arnaud is very smart. He. He knew that he had to bring in the edge to these kind of tired couture houses, and what a smart move it was. I mean, it sort of, yeah, actually started that big boom. But I think, you know, in Alexander's case, he. He was still. His heart was always at his own brand. It wasn't sort of, you know, he needed the money. Yes, but I don't think that was the world he. He was built for. But. But I don't think that you got that feeling so much in London. You know, London was always sort of like, everything was done as a favor as a freebie, as a. You know, nobody got paid a penny for anything that you did. So in London, you didn't really feel that there was a shift into any kind of more organized luxury kind of business. Like, even looking at today, a lot of those brands never didn't survive. You know, if you. I sometimes I do a mental list of successful designers from the 90s in London, and where are they now? And they're nowhere. Yeah, it's a different, you know, the axis of. Of power exists elsewhere. Did not exist in. In. In London at all. But, yeah, London was always the pool that, you know, you went and. And fished your talent from, because obviously, that's their strength. They're not the best business people, but they're incredibly creative.

Kristen (45:22)

And then you move to New York, right, as New York sort of starts to be more at the center of things. And was it personal that you moved there, or were you drawn to it? What. What made you make the move?

Tina Lanen (45:38)

Well, I moved to New York. I met my husband in 2000, so that's when I moved to New York. And so, yeah, the main reason was really personal, but I was happy. I was. I felt like I was sort of done with London. Sounds weird. It's like, done with Paris, done with London. Forward motion. Let's go to New York. And, yeah, so that was very different. Then I became like, a freelance stylist and worked with loads of different people, different capacities, and different angles of the world of styling. And it was fun. It was great. You know, New York was really booming in the early 2000s, and. And, yeah, I loved it. It was exciting.

Kristen (46:26)

What did you think of the young designers coming up at that time versus the ones in. In London? Because it's just a different. I always think of America as it really does. Like, American fashion comes from 7th Avenue. And I think even when you look at the way the big companies are run today versus the ones in Europe, that history does play a factor. Did you. What did you think of all the young kids who were trying to make it in fashion in New York versus what you expect experienced in, like, at the center of creativity in London?

Tina Lanen (47:06)

I think fashion is a really, really, really hard business to get into and be successful in. I think it's sort of like a dream, but I think once the reality of it kicks in, it's. It's not easy. And I'm. I'm not sure. I think the system in New York, where there's all these, you know, funds and things that are like, bringing up people, encouraging them, giving them money, it's sort of little bit like false dream in a way, because I feel like if you win one of these things, you think you're set for life, you're going to be successful, you're going to be all those things. And, and the reality of it is, is. Is much different. And they also, because of the system, the way it works, there's always someone new, someone cooler, someone different, someone for whatever reasons. This year, it's about this kind of designers. As the years go by, you're sort of like, getting lower and lower on that cool factor.

Kristen (48:15)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (48:16)

Thing. And, and, and to build a business, I think it's incredibly hard. You know, I think it's. You can grow a business, and then once you plateau, unless you get some serious money pumped into your business and smart people behind it. I don't know. Hard. Very hard.

Kristen (48:39)

Yeah. I mean, if you look at Proenza Schooler, they're the perfect. No, well, perfect is probably not the right word, but they are like the ultimate example of how challenging it is. Two incredibly talented people who took a lot of money really early and then they just. Every single step in their career has been reflected how challenging it is to build a fashion business anywhere. But in the US in particular, where there is this, they're. They are encouraged to start their own brands, which I just don't understand. It's. It's not like you said, it's basically impossible. Especially now with the way like the cost of raw materials and things, it's impossible to make any money. And it, it's interesting. I moved to New York in oh at the end of 05 and that whole, whole group that sort of came up with these, these competitions and you get half a million dollars or $200,000 and that doesn't do anything once you pay the taxes. I remember one, one design team, I did a big piece on the fashion fund in 2014 and I like followed them around. I went to LA with them for their event and I became close with a lot of the designers and there was one team who said, oh, if we win, we're gonna, we're gonna hire a full time publicist with the money. And I was like, no, no, but, but it's a. What do you do with it that is, is useful. It's just such a. And there was this sort of dream, I think after Marc Jacobs and Michael Kors and, and Narciso Rodriguez all got these big jobs in Europe that like, you start your brand, you get a big job in Europe, you get paid well at that job, and somehow your brand also becomes a big thing. And it just was. It's just a nearly impossible. It's one in one in a million that succeeds. And it's. Yeah. I don't know. I wish that there was. Sometimes when you talk to young designers, they wish that there was like more infrastructure like there is in Europe in terms of like just being able to have a baseline of keep going without having crazy outside funding because there's more help from the government or from the manufacturers. But I don't know, it's just anytime someone says they're gonna start a fashion brand, I'm just like, you're a complete lunatic. And you only can do this if. If you know that it probably will fail.

Tina Lanen (51:31)

But can I tell you something? This is something that I experienced for my store is, is there is a thing called the parallel universe in fashion. So I call it the fast fashion and the parallel universe, which for me is much happier place. It's full of these Brands that are small but very successful.

Kristen (51:56)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (51:57)

And I always tell now people that if you're going to do a clothing brand, stay small, small, small, small. Because you can run a small business in a very efficient kind of way and have a business. But where it goes wrong is when people think that being fashion designer is to be famous.

Kristen (52:19)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (52:20)

To be like, you know, on whatever. It's, it's. It's such a different mindset. If you're seeking fame through your. Your work, you're on the wrong track already. If you are focusing on your vision, your brand, your building a, you know, customer base, you can do something really good. And I've seen that many, many times. And that's why. That was one of the reasons I wanted to open the store was to sort of showcase and celebrate these designers and brands and makers who are doing something fabulous. But nobody knows who they are in the fashion industry. And that's okay. That's okay because there's room for all kinds of people. But the difference being that these people have a business and they're not concerned about having a publicist or doing a fashion show or being at this thing or that thing. No, they just stick to what they do and they do it really well. And that's just a different way of seeing things. But unfortunately, if you're looking for fame, then that's not the. That's not your arena. That's a different ballgame.

Kristen (53:43)

I wonder if it has something to do with the way society in America operates and what success equals. So here success equals growth and wealth. Whereas maybe, I. I don't know. But where you grew up, success is defined differently because of the way that the, the culture operates. I don't. I don't know for sure, but that is, to me, I see it very much as like, America is like a push country. Where you are supposed to. Big is. Is success. Whereas maybe in other places in Europe in particular, success is seen as a example is this brand, Norse Projects, that my husband loves. He wears. He. He. For a long time, he. He's. They've changed a little bit, so he's moved on. But I remember he. There's one shirt that they make that he really, really likes, and they just. He. They made it for 10 years and they just stopped making it. And anytime he messages them, he says, I need something, or. There's no. It doesn't feel like they're trying to get big or expand too much or anything. It's more about, we have our store in Copenhagen and we're gonna make what we wanna make and that's it. But I don't know if. I don't know if you view it that way, as someone who's lived in all these different places and operated in all the different economies.

Tina Lanen (55:35)

Well, I just think that, like I said, there's so many different ways of doing the making clothes, building a brand. And I just think the idea of, of teaching young people in fashion schools, the idea that the goal is to be the next. The next Karl Lagerfeld or the next this or that is terrible because it's sort of like you're already shifting your focus on your goals to something that is so not realistic and not important. And so it's a tricky world. It's a tricky world to enter, and you really have to make that decision, like, who do you want to talk to? Who is your audience? Who's going to be your customer? Who's going to love what you do? But most importantly, I think you have to love it yourself. You can't start just pleasing people. That is terrible also. So I think that I'm of the mindset that I think there. There are some great big brands and good for them. I think the idea that you have to keep growing nonstop is frightening. At what cost to, you know, to everything, the world, the environment, and every. You know. And also I feel that customers, they've been duped into this mindset that you constantly need new stuff. Like the idea that we need to rethink our wardrobe every three or six months. And it's like everything else you bought before, no matter how expensive it was or whatever, is redundant. I think that. Be nice to kind of educate people, and that's what we did at the store is like, less is less is more. Buy better quality, buy less things. Just buy the best version of something rather than buy loads of things that you're kind of just second guessing, like, oh, this is nice. This is nice. Yeah. I just think that the fashion world is in a very, very scary place right now. It's.

Kristen (58:00)

It's.

Tina Lanen (58:01)

Things that are big have gotten way too big and there is not much air left for definitely nothing in the middle. You know, if you're in the middle, I don't think you're gonna make it ultimately. And then the small brands, they're gonna make it because they're smart and they decide to stay smart.

Kristen (58:23)

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Tina Lanen (59:08)

I had always wanted to. I always had this idea that, you know, like, my, my career was sort of like the model. Go to school, work in design, work in a magazine, work as a stylist. It's sort of. Everything is sort of like a point of view, you know, it's like a. You work with. Either you work for someone who has an extremely, you know, sharp point of view or. But you also develop your own point of view. And I felt like working for people, it was always, you're accommodating someone else's vision. Whereas I wanted to figure out a space where I could say, these are my favorite things. And I thought a store would be like a nice platform for that, to be honest. I always thought, oh, cute little store, few things, I'm going to hang out, drink tea and sell a few things. And next thing I know, it sort of grows into this big business. But yeah, ultimately it was about. I called it my favorite things. Like, I felt like I wanted to show people a different way of shopping, a different way of experiencing retail, and that's what we did.

Kristen (60:25)

I, I think I really, I. I'm sure I read about your store when, when you first opened, but I think I really started to kind of go on the website Wormhole when probably a couple years after you opened. I, I had been in Japan and gone to Arts and Science and bought a shirt and was looking, and you were really the only you and Noodle Story is probably the only sellers of that brand in the U.S. right?

Tina Lanen (60:51)

Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. There's been sort of smaller. But, you know, Sonia park, who is the designer, the creative mind behind Arts and Science, is someone I've known, I don't know, maybe 20 years, you know, so these are also a lot of people like Sonia from Arts and Science, Christina from dosa, William Wellsted. These are people I've known in my kind of previous careers and life, and it was a really nice way of bringing all their beautiful work into the store.

Kristen (61:27)

Tell me about the store itself. For people who haven't been. It's, it's A Like a farmhouse almost, Right?

Tina Lanen (61:35)

Yes. It's an old. It's on the main street. Am against it. And it's an old merchants home house, so it's very lovely.

Kristen (61:43)

We.

Tina Lanen (61:44)

We bought the building and, and. And after we bought it, we sort of restored the original, you know, old part and added an addition to it to the back, but in old kind of same style. But it's wonderful. It's got a porch and. And then the interior is. Opens up to the old part, which feels very charming and. And. But cleaned up. And then the back is super high ceiling, skylights. It feels. People always say that when they walked into the store, they felt like it was almost like an art gallery, which I think is a little exaggerated, but it felt very like not your average store. It just had more of a. I mean, I did all the, you know, the visual merchandising that, you know, and putting it all together, I did all the buying. I mean, I just did so much. And we had Faye Toogood from London who did all our display furniture. And so it had a really. It had a really kind of nice balance of something very modern and little artsy, but also kind of warm. I wanted the store to feel very warm and welcoming. And it was a great, fun, hard work. It was all those things. But I love that we were able to create something like that in Amagansett, because when we opened, it was like there was. There was a couple of outlet stores there. Like, I can't remember what bass shoes and stuff like that, but I like the idea that we were completely off the beaten track. And we created this very successful, exciting new retail space.

Kristen (63:50)

That region has changed so much over that period of time. Did you feel responsible for some of that? Of like having you. You created this destination that people wanted to go to. And now, I mean, that area is totally different. The row is in your old store, but there are many stores there. There are more people there every summer. What. What is. How has that. That area changed since you opened?

Tina Lanen (64:25)

I think it's changed a lot. I mean, we were basically the only, like a real, let's call it, luxury store in there, in definitely Namagansett. But then I think people felt like, oh, this store is busy. It's doing well. Maybe we should look into being there too. And then, you know, stores show up. And then, I mean, the big change was in East Hampton, where all of a sudden it's like, whoa, they're all here. All the big brands are here. And I think there must have been a moment where people Said, wait a minute. There is a possibility for serious business out here because before I opened my store, my dear mother in law said to me, said, tina, why do, why do you want to open a store in here? People don't shop here. And I said, well, they don't shop here because they have nothing to buy. And if you give them something to buy, they will come. And they did come. And I think retail is like that. I mean, if I wouldn't call, they're like lemons. But, you know, little bit like, you know, people like to follow each other and see if they do well. Oh, I want to be there too. And you know, it is what it is, you know, but there's definitely. I did not know, I would be the first to admit that I did not know the potential for the business out here. And you know, obviously, slowly but surely we found out. And I would say this area has the single best customer base I've ever seen in my, in my whole life anywhere. Like, I, I've had people come from London, Tokyo and kind of witness it. And everybody would say, we don't have clients like this.

Kristen (66:26)

And that's because the, the amount they spend in the repeat customer and the loyalty is. How would you measure that?

Tina Lanen (66:34)

Yeah, exactly. It's exactly. I mean, you create. I always said the. Tina, the store wasn't for everybody. That was never. I didn't want it to be a store for everybody and anybody. You know, I want it to be very, very specifically my point of view. And I said, if this is something you're into, this is going to be the best store for you. And if it's not your thing, that's okay.

Kristen (67:01)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (67:01)

And so we, we, we had incredible customers, like, incredible. And, and that, you know, that was the success behind, you know, behind the success of the store.

Kristen (67:15)

What were people drawn to? What did you find as you started buying and, and people started buying from you? What were some of the sort of themes of what people came to you for?

Tina Lanen (67:32)

It was really about discovery. You know, people came to discover something that wasn't readily available elsewhere. But in the world of what I call that parallel universe kind of luxury, beautiful things, brands that you didn't see anywhere else. Unique, kind of sophisticated, but easy kind of real clothes, beautiful home things. Again, handmade, artisanal. I think just people came for the discovery. For them, it was, it was like, show me what you have. Wow, what is this? And the kind of storytelling was a big part of the success of the business too. We always introduced new craftspeople, makers and told their stories. And I think people, people want that. People don't want just stuff. They want something deeper, more meaningful. And that was, that was a big part of what we, what we did.

Kristen (68:47)

You mentioned Fay 2 good. And I just looking back and looking at the way that you bought for the store and the things that you put in the store, it feels very influential in terms of what other retailers would buy. I'm sure a lot of bigger retailers would come in and see things. And could you feel that influence you were having on much larger department stores and multi brand online luxury players, that sense of if you pick something, it meant something to the greater industry?

Tina Lanen (69:26)

Definitely. Definitely. I think I can take credit for putting some of these smaller great brands on the map. And yeah, no, I totally. Because I have very close relationships with these designers and brands. And they would always come to me and said, oh, such and such is coming for an appointment. And also what I would do sometimes is I would tell people, like I would tell Carol from Noodle Stories and say, Carol, go and look at this brand.

Kristen (69:57)

Yeah. Noodle Stories is a store in Los Angeles and Amarises in Orange county, both wonderful stores that definitely shared a little bit of a language with you. Although they're unique. And you just as you are unique.

Tina Lanen (70:13)

Yeah. I mean, you know, the beauty of these brands, small brands, is that you can, you can tell your own story. Like, you would go to an appointment at Daniela Greg's and you could spend hours and hours like, creating your own collection in a way that, you know, you can't do with bigger brands. So you would choose your styles, your fabrics, your colors. So we'd all end up having something very different because we all have a different, you know, point of view. But yeah, no, I, I've seen it. I've. I've seen it in Amaganza too, that, you know, as soon as Tina, the store was gone, that some other people showed up and I, you know, why not? I, I'm all for, you know, for people to be successful and, and I want these brands that I kind of discovered and promoted to be successful. And it's, yeah, it's nature of the business. Everybody's, you know, you remember in the, you know, heydays of Barneys, people literally go to Barneys to see what they're selling. So, so that they could. Or Dover Street Market was a kind of a marker for a lot of people. Like, oh, this brand is at Dover Street Market. We have to have it too. It's sort of, it's nature of business, you know, People follow.

Kristen (71:37)

Why did you decide to close the store, which you did in 2020?

Tina Lanen (71:42)

Last year. Last year, yeah. Well, this goes back to the fact that, you know, the business was created by myself and my husband. My husband is the. I always called him my enabler because none of this would have existed without him. He's a incredibly smart, capable, brilliant person, and he carried all the kind of the heavy lifting of the business side of it and figuring out the building and everything. Everything, everything. So my sole purpose and not purpose, but my job was to really to have the vision, the buying, to keep the store going, the customers, all that. So he felt that the way the business was, because the business was growing and it was very successful, that we had reached the point where it was sort of untenable, like working 24 7, you know?

Kristen (72:38)

Yeah.

Tina Lanen (72:39)

If when you own a business, you basically live with it 24 7. And he just felt that it wasn't something that we could keep going in the way we were working. And he's smarter than me. And he said, tina, you're not going to be happy if you keep going like this, working like this. And thank God for that. So I like the idea of going out on top, like saying, we did this, we did great. We. We created something successful, we can break it, and we can start again if we want to. It's like, you just know that you've reached a point where if I ever wanted to do Tina the store again, we could start. Pick it up from where we left. It wasn't. It wouldn't be sort of like, I start from zero. So. So it was sort of a perfect timing and just allowed us to exhale and relax and live a little and travel and just shift focus in our lives to things that we weren't able to do during those 11 years that we were working nonstop. So it's been great. I'm very happy we did it and no regrets.

Kristen (74:10)

When you mentioned that people would come to the store for they want essentially something special. And I think the industry has gotten. Has reached this point where luxury is so massive that the consumers of fashion are really looking. The people who shopped at your store. I think there are more of them who want the experience that they had at your store. And maybe they have a different. Different taste or whatever. They. They are looking for something else, but they don't have anywhere to. To find those things. What do you think the next phase of this industry looks like as it sort of bifurcates into the masses buying mass goods and the fashion consumer, the Enthusiast wanting something special and, and that probably converges more than they'd like to admit. But I think it's a huge reason why there aren't why luxury is dragging right now. People talk a lot about the price, but I think the price, the big reason is that people are just really bored with what is available on the market. What do you think happens now? Do you think there's a whole new generation of retailers and designers who kind of try to do what, what you did or do you think it's just not the same business anymore?

Tina Lanen (75:41)

Well, I don't think it is the same business anymore. And I think to go back to that point, point about people being bored with stuff, of course they're bored with stuff because I think it's the too muchness of it. It's just you are being bombarded by stuff all the time and at the same time everybody has access to that stuff. So I don't know, it doesn't feel that special. And also I think to be honest, the quality of that, even that, what people call luxury has gone way down. It's kind of shocking and, and the prices have gone way up, the quality is way down. And I think there's a point where people start to say like I don't need another, another one of these things. I don't need another handbag like this. I don't need. You just get like being force fed so much that you are like, you know, you're like one of those ducks that they make foie gras with. You know you'd be like, yeah, your liver is like done. You can no longer digest any of it and you kind of go off it. But I think personally, I think there is an enormous need for a great retail. Like people are ready and they're wanted. But yeah, there's definitely room for like discovery type of retail where you just walk in and it's none of that stuff that you see elsewhere. And not just the product but also the experience of it all, I think there is huge demand and need for that and I think that should be part of the future. And as far as then the big luxury, luxury brand, they're just you know, going to keep on going, marching on because there's so much money in this world and it might not be the kind of customers we had. My customers were not particularly interested in any of that. But there is always new people, people who just want all the regular luxury, let's call it.

Kristen (78:00)

Are there any brands that you're really personally invested in right now that you would carry, if you were still operating, that you didn't get to maybe when or you had just started right before you stopped.

Tina Lanen (78:16)

To be honest, I'm not thinking on those terms. I'm. I'm thinking that if I was to do another version of Tina the store, I would not do exactly the same. I don't think it's. I don't like repeating myself. I don't want to do a B version of what we did. So for me, I would have to come into it from a very different angle and something. Something different, but in the kind of 100% in my sensibility, but something different. And I'm not seeing. I can't really pull out, you know, brands and say, these are the things I'm looking at, you know, in my own life, I'm still very much of an arts and science kind of person, and I still, you know, have my Zanini treasures that I kept for myself. For me, these are, like, forever close, and this is the kind of world I like to exist in. But, yeah, definitely, I would. Whatever the new reincarnation of Tina the store would be, would not be exactly the same.

Kristen (79:32)

What do you want to do next? Do you have any plans? What are you working. Are you working on anything right now that you can talk about?

Tina Lanen (79:41)

I'm still dreaming. I'm still, you know, on my. My kind of inspiring and thinking kind of phase. But one of the things I'm really interested in, I would love to do some consulting. I would love to, you know, consult for people. I feel like I have this really good toolkit of experience in. In the fashion world on many different levels, and I would like to kind of use it for some brands or some companies as a kind of project, kind of based thing. But I think ultimately, I think something will. Something will come up.

Kristen (80:32)

Something will. Yes, many things.

Tina Lanen (80:35)

Yeah.

Kristen (80:35)

Tina, we didn't even get to talk about the Row.

Tina Lanen (80:40)

Well, we can talk about the row another time. I think the row is great. I think they. There's a brand that has figured it out. I mean, it's remarkable. Congratulations to them. That's a. That's such an achievement, especially in this country. And I think what a clever way to kind of create your space in that world and to have the balls to do it on your own terms and not do the same old, same old. I think it's brilliant, and I'm, you know, seems to be working.

Kristen (81:15)

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. All the things that we were talking about about American designers and young designers, and do you think when someday we'll do a whole podcast about them. But do you think that their success. Because I think that their, their rise sort of parallels so much of, of your store and, and they're clearly very influenced by arts and science and, and just there's so much that they did that feels in. Connected to what you do. But they were very, very big from very early on in terms of distribution. But do you think it is that thing of you have to like really have a, a tunnel vision and not let other people, what they tell you to do, influence what you do? Because it feels like they just decided we're not going to listen to anyone else, we're just going to do it the way we want to do it. And yes, we're going to be widely distributed, but we're also going to only make the things we like and et cetera.

Tina Lanen (82:24)

Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite self made quotes is fashion is a dictatorship. It is not a democracy. It has to have that very firm singular point of view and stick to it. It's very hard to. Once you start second guessing yourself too much, you already kind of like on Thin Eyes. But I think they have really, they've set the rules for themselves. As in this is who we are, this is our vision, this is the woman. And listen, I think that is their strength. I think some of the brands, a lot of the brands, they're just here, there and everywhere. And I think you can't please everybody. Like try to find your audience and please that audience and then your. You're golden.

Kristen (83:14)

Words to live by. Tina, thank you so much for doing this. It was such an honor. And this is the longest podcast I've ever recorded.

Tina Lanen (83:21)

I'm sorry. No. Why?

Kristen (83:23)

I could talk to you for another two hours. We had to rush through a couple points, but your life is extraordinary. You really should write a book.

Tina Lanen (83:32)

Oh, maybe, maybe.

Kristen (83:35)

This was so, so great though. Thank you. I hope we meet in person someday soon.

Tina Lanen (83:39)

Me too. Me too.

Kristen (83:41)

Thank you.

Tina Lanen (83:41)

Thank you so much.

Kristen (83:43)

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.