Silk, Wool, Cashmere

Summary

FASHION PEOPLE — “Silk, Wool, Cashmere”
Host: Lauren Sherman | Guests: Paul Smith & Gabriela Hearst
Date: May 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Lauren Sherman welcomes legendary British designer Paul Smith and acclaimed Uruguayan-American designer Gabriela Hearst for a vibrant, behind-the-scenes conversation. The two dive into their recent fashion collaboration—a collection centered on silk, wool, and cashmere—and share candid insights on craft, legacy, friendship, the future of tailoring, gender in fashion, and the values that sustain creativity. The episode crackles with banter, mutual respect, and tales from their respective design journeys, offering an illuminating look at the art, business, and emotion in today’s fashion world.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Warm-Up: Studio Tales & Origins

(06:28–12:26)

• The episode opens with playful breakfast banter between Paul in London (“swim at 5 o’clock, apple, birch and muesli”—06:49) and Gabriela in New York (“blueberries and egg… I exercised as well. We need it.”—07:27).
• Gabriela describes the magic of Paul Smith’s London studio, calling it “the Alibaba Cave… all these objects” sent from admirers worldwide, celebrating his dedication to craft (07:38–08:58).
• “We need to do an exhibit of this because… it’s the most incredible collection. He’s like a god of craft and design.”—Gabriela Hearst (08:25)
• Paul shares that most gifts and letters come with “no request, just to communicate. It’s really beautiful and very humbling.”—Paul Smith (09:18)
• The segment sets a tone of mutual admiration and creative love for “handwork” and the human touch.

2. On Being “Shopkeepers” and Retail Philosophy

(12:26–16:21)

• The designers discuss their hands-on roles in their businesses. Paul: “I work in the store every Saturday… A lot of people don’t really know that you’re the man with the name above the door.” (13:15)
• Gabriela is deeply involved with all visual merchandising (“VM is religion”); she avoids window displays and focuses on “nothing to distract you except product” (14:30–15:53).
• There's shared reverence for physical, analog experience—store energy, product tangibility, and community.

3. Suiting, Color, and Style

(16:21–20:29)

• Suits remain core to both brands: “25% of our business… in every color”—Gabriela (16:28); “Definitely for me, yes”—Paul (16:26).
• Paul reminisces about fitting trousers for Jimmy Page (Led Zeppelin), noting the historic and personal elements that inform his sense of style.
• Both designers are renowned for sophisticated colorwork and tailoring.

4. Collaboration Genesis: From Pen Pals to Collection

(17:42–22:05)

• Paul and Gabriela’s friendship began via text, introduced by musician Wesley Schulz. “We’ve been like pen pals… [he] describes himself as the shopkeeper. Once a shopkeeper, always a shopkeeper.”—Gabriela (12:26)
• Their collection grew from personal resonance: using Paul’s late father’s photographs as prints/textiles. “What’s so great is… we feel close… even being pen pals.”—Paul (17:42)
• The process was organic: they selected images together, translated them into signature silhouettes, and “cooked with silk, wool, and cashmere.” (41:54)

5. The Analog Advantage

(22:05–25:09)

• Both resist digital shortcuts. Gabriela sketches and paints; Paul creates stripes by hand-wrapping yarn on card:
  • “We do the stripes with a piece of card and then yarn… we do it by hand… I use something called a notepad and a pen.”—Paul (24:11)
  • “I sketch a lot… that’s what feeds the team.”—Gabriela (23:16)
• The analog approach yields a tangible, unique quality in their work.

6. Tailoring & Construction: The Heart of Craft

(27:47–31:42)

• Paul describes learning tailoring and couture from his wife, Pauline, and attending legendary Paris couture shows (28:00–29:32).
• Gabriela shares her entrepreneurial journey—learning “thousands of mistakes” with her first company and improving tailoring via traditional Italian techniques (30:53).
• Technical close-ups: pad stitching, shoulder construction, and showing handmade jackets on-air.
• “Success comes from mistakes. They don’t come from one hit after another.”—Gabriela (29:32)

7. The Magic of the Suit—Power, Security, and Reinvention

(32:48–36:21)

• The role of the suit in an increasingly casual fashion culture:
  • “You can never be overdressed or underdressed in a suit… it’s like a security, an armor… the clothes don’t scream, you see the person right first.”—Gabriela (33:31)
  • “The suit is like the frame… your character comes from what you put with it.”—Paul (34:10)
• They discuss post-pandemic shifts: Paul predicts a tailoring revival among Gen Z, seeing bands in London adopting suits as personal, expressive attire (35:48).

8. Gender in Fashion: Blurring the Lines

(37:42–41:54)

• Both design menswear and womenswear, embracing a fluid, post-gender approach:
  • “It was natural. We didn’t even think we were going to do just one [gender].”—Gabriela (38:28)
  • “My wife… has always dressed in that more androgynous, masculine way, which she likes very much.”—Paul (40:58)
• Gabriela shares how she now mixes men’s and women’s tailoring on the same racks: “I prefer a men’s jacket… jackets were all men’s last show.” (38:33)
• Paul credits Vogue’s Grace Coddington for showing how menswear could enhance femininity (“…she used my men’s coats [for women]”—40:06).

9. Collection Details: Silk, Wool, Cashmere

(41:54–43:13)

• The collaboration spotlights three luxury fibers: “Silk, wool, and cashmere. We cook with those three… it’s like food: simple, quality ingredients.”—Gabriela (41:54)
• Highlights include silk lace dresses, cashmere sweaters with landscape motifs from Paul’s father’s photos, screen prints, and hand-knit intarsia pieces produced by a non-profit in Uruguay.
• “That cashmere, when you touch it, you want nothing else in the world.”—Gabriela (43:04)
• Paul jokes about protecting the collection: “I’ve had to stop 18 people from stealing this today.” (43:00)

10. The Value of Collaboration & Mentoring the Next Generation

(43:13–47:23)

• Collaboration brings energy and camaraderie; it’s “from the heart, not from the wallet”—Paul (44:33).
• Gabriela insists on alignment in values for collaborations and praises Paul as a champion of youth and authenticity (44:33–45:41).
• Paul discusses the Paul Smith Foundation, mentoring young designers in life and business: “The creativity is one thing. Trying to help them understand how the world goes round today is really, really important—so many good creatives fall by the wayside because of commerce.” (45:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Once a shopkeeper, always a shopkeeper.” — Gabriela Hearst (12:26)
• “VM [visual merchandising] is religion… Nothing to distract you except product.” — Gabriela Hearst (15:53)
• “We do the stripes… by hand. I use something called a notepad and a pen.” — Paul Smith (24:11)
• “Success comes from mistakes. They don’t come from one hit after another.” — Gabriela Hearst (29:32)
• “You can never be overdressed or underdressed in a suit… it’s like a security, right? It’s like an armor.” — Gabriela Hearst (33:31)
• “The suit is like the frame… your character can come from… the accoutrements you put with it.” — Paul Smith (34:10)
• “It was natural. We didn’t even think: are we doing just one [gender]? …It was going to be for both.” — Gabriela Hearst (38:28)
• “It’s from the heart, not from the wallet.” — Paul Smith (44:33)
• “As the world is going to come, I think authenticity and human creativity is going to be the excellence… the real.” — Gabriela Hearst (45:41)

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Essential Timestamps

• 06:28 — Introductions, breakfast routines
• 07:38 — Gabriela describes Paul’s “Alibaba Cave” studio
• 09:18 — Paul on the joy of receiving gifts, “no request, just to communicate”
• 12:26 — How Paul and Gabriela met; “pen pals” origin
• 13:15 — Paul’s ritual of working in his store
• 14:30 — Gabriela on VM, transparency in stores
• 17:42 — Collaboration origin story: using Paul’s father’s photography
• 24:11 — Analog versus digital: “notepad and pen” design
• 28:00 — Paul’s tailoring roots via his wife, attending couture shows
• 33:31 — Power and comfort of suits
• 35:48 — Paul’s prediction of tailoring’s return for Gen Z
• 38:28 — Genderless approach to collaboration
• 41:54 — What the collection includes: silk, wool, cashmere, motif details
• 43:13 — On the value of collaboration and creativity
• 45:41 — Paul Smith Foundation and advice for young designers

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Episode Tone & Takeaway

Relaxed yet passionate, the conversation is rich with anecdote and wisdom, moving fluidly from whimsical (train-set escapes from dull meetings) to profound (on authenticity and the next generation of designers). Both Smith and Hearst exemplify an industry driven by heart, heritage, and hands-on craft—making this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in what makes today’s fashion truly distinctive.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Podcast Host]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Pucks Fashion

[Podcast Host]

and Beauty Memo Line Sheet and today

[Lauren Sherman]

with me on the show are designers

[Podcast Host]

Paul Smith and Gabriela Hurst.

[Lauren Sherman]

They're here to chat about their recent

[Podcast Host]

collaboration and plenty more.

[Lauren Sherman]

Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries. Line Sheet is scoopy, analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount.

[Podcast Host]

Just go to Puck News Fashion People

[Lauren Sherman]

to join Puck or start a free trial. Happy Friday everyone. Hope you're having a great Day week. I am in Paris this week. I'm taking the day off today to hang out with my good friend, the famous podcaster Amanda Dobbins of Jam Session and the Big Picture. She's in town from can. I'm looking forward to hearing how it was then. I'm headed to the UK tomorrow morning for the wedding of the one and only Gabby Katz. It's going to be me and a room full of publicists and Gabriella Karifa Johnson as well. I will report back.

[Podcast Host]

I'm sure there's going to be a

[Lauren Sherman]

lot of Instagrams that I will not be regramming. Congrats to Gabby and Owen.

[Podcast Host]

We couldn't be happier for you all.

[Lauren Sherman]

This week in Line Sheet, we launched a new column with Molly, the genius data analyst behind Style Analytics. You probably follow her on Instagram. She looked into why brands should be paying more attention about what people say about them on Reddit. It's really interesting.

[Podcast Host]

I am very.

[Lauren Sherman]

I love data, but only if it's entertaining and insightful and I think Molly really nails it and I think you'll really enjoy it. I also have my take on the LV Cruise show in New York, which, you know, it is what it is. And whatever you want to say about Nicolas Jeskier and especially the last few years at lv, he's extremely talented. He's generationally talented, was probably the most important Designer of the 2000s maybe. I mean, Hedy Slimane was. But Nicola was more important to me as a consumer. So, you know, we can't not give him that. But it's obvious, and I've written this before, it's time for a change at Louis Vuitton. Women's. Maybe men's too, but definitely women's. I also have some Chanel pricing updates. I did some reporting on the cost of the cruise shows and there's obviously lots more. Also, are you based in the uk? Do you live in London? Do you love Bicester Village? Are you obsessed with shopping? Do you love Alex Eagle? Are you a big Fashion People listener? Do you want to go to Bicester village on Thursday, May 28 for a live taping of Fashion People with me and Alex? It starts around 5pm if you are interested in attending, you can email Eric. It's just E R I Cuck News and we will get you sorted. If you have any questions about it, I guess you could DM me on Instagram. I'd really prefer you just email Eric though, in this case. But you should come.

[Podcast Host]

It'll be fun.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm gonna go to St. Laurent before and see if I can get some jeans. Anyway, have a lovely weekend and let's get going with this. Gabby and Paul, they are amazing and Paul is a true legend. Gabby is a legend in the making and it's just a really interesting conversation.

[Podcast Host]

Paul Smith and Gabriella Hurst, welcome to Fashion People.

[Paul Smith]

Hello. Hello, welcome. I'm in London and Gabriella, where are you?

[Gabriela Hearst]

I'm in New York and I'm so happy to be with you and Lauren and just any time with Paul Smith. Lauren is a great time.

[Podcast Host]

I've been with him for two minutes and I can already tell. So what did you all have for breakfast this morning?

[Paul Smith]

Well, I swim at five o' clock every morning. So before that is at one apple and then after that is birch and muesli. And then I arrive at the office around six. So then I enjoy peace and quiet for about one and a half hours. And Gabriela came here so she knows there's lots to do in this, in this room.

[Gabriela Hearst]

I. I mean, I need to talk about that. I really need. I need to press your world.

[Paul Smith]

Please go ahead. If Lauren's okay with that. I had

[Gabriela Hearst]

blueberries and egg. I took my kid to school and I exercised as well. We need it. We need it.

[Paul Smith]

Absolutely.

[Gabriela Hearst]

You go, go, go on the machine. But Laura, I have to tell you because, you know, I'm turning 50 this year, so I feel like I have some, you know, gravitas of saying I've been around, I've seen things. I've never seen anything like Paul Studio. It is like the Alibaba Cave, you know, it's all these objects. And I've met creative people, designers. I am so lucky. All of these artifacts that you see everywhere. Their gift that people send him daily. Daily. From all over the world. He gets gifts. Brought bicycles that a woman brought from Russia. That's from the U.S. i remember that one.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah.

[Gabriela Hearst]

But they all make them craft gifts. They craft gifts. Do you understand? Like we need to do an exhibit of this because it's craft the most incredible. A collection of stamps, a collection of embroidered letters. It's like he's like a God of for craft and design and all over the world are sending him gifts. I know I have to talk about it because you're too much of a sir and a gentleman and you will not self bloat. But this is love to a degree. Oh, that's the letter. See?

[Paul Smith]

Embroidered.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Embroidered.

[Lauren Sherman]

Who is the embroidered letter from again?

[Paul Smith]

This is just from a young lady who said, I absolutely love, love, love, love embroidery. I would love to show you some sometime. That was it. What's so delightful? Lauren is. And Gabrielle has been very kind. But what's so delightful? I do get things daily. And what's so amazing in today's. What's in it for me world that we live in, people just send things with no request, just to send things just to communicate. It's really humbling. It's really beautiful and very humbling. These just came from. I'm just showing everybody. And these just came from Jamie Oliver. They're from. There's some walking sticks.

[Podcast Host]

Where are they from? They're. They're what, Black and white? Cream and white?

[Paul Smith]

Yeah, they're. They're from Tuscany. Sorry, I just dropped my headphone. They're from Tuscany. He hand carved them with his friend. They're from a ward in Tuscany. And they're hand carved like sticks, walking sticks. And he just sent them to me. And then I've got one lady from Japan that just sends me carved fish that she paints. You remember those, Gabriella?

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yeah, I remember. Do you have this suitcase that your wife made you so you could escape the meetings in Japan? Because I love that one. This is wife made.

[Podcast Host]

Amazing. Oh, my God. It's like a diorama of. Is that your house?

[Paul Smith]

This is a train set that. Yeah. When the meetings were too boring, she said, just get your train set out and say you don't want to continue the meeting, so I carry it around the world. And when the meetings gets. I just get that trainer.

[Podcast Host]

It does feel like I'm looking inside both of your brains because I'm also looking in your office, Gabriela, with all of your family photos and your books and your. Your artifact. You have gorgeous things too. And then Paul, it's amazing. It's truly your studio's truly amazing.

[Gabriela Hearst]

I know that Paul looks the same age as I am, but I'm actually younger. So when I get to Paul's age, maybe I can get something like this. But I have to tell you, these are like. I mean, the love people have for you is because you have this love for craft and design and inspired us all. So I'm just like, yeah, I don't know if I get that level.

[Paul Smith]

I think you're already there with your, you know, love of craft and your upbringing in the ranch and your. Your sustainability passion. And that's exactly what we try to do. You know, we're still an independent company, Lauren. I'm not sure whether you know that, but we're both independent. We both. Neither of us were trained formally in, you know, in fashion school, so both of us, it's learning by doing it. You know, that's. That's what we've. How we've developed both of our businesses. And mine has been going longer because I'm extremely old. That's why he sent me walking sticks.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I bet you don't need to use them with all that swimming. Well, how did you. How did you two meet? How did. Gabriella. Did you send an embroidered letter?

[Gabriela Hearst]

Kind of not, but similar. We have a friend in common, Wesley Schulz, the lead singer of the Lumineers. And he said to me, you and Paul are gonna connect. He said, like, you guys are very similar. I guess that the energy, he thought. And we were introduced by text messages, so in a way, we've been like pen pals and so many bits of wisdom that he just feels, you know, in the one day he's like texting me and he's like, I'm like, asking, where are you? And he's like, I'm in. I'm in the shop. He goes to the shop all the time. And he's. And this is Paul Smith, and he describes himself as the shopkeeper. And I just love that because this is really the humbleness of the great. You know, and it's really. Once a shopkeeper, always a shopkeeper, you know?

[Paul Smith]

Yeah, I work in the store every Saturday. I have Lots of stores, but the one in Mayfair in London. And it's really fantastic because you meet, you know, you meet such interesting people and you learn so much as well. And it's. It's quite amusing, you know, quite sometimes, because a lot of people don't really know that you're the man with the name above the door.

[Podcast Host]

So I bet a lot of people do, though. And there's lots of selfies going on.

[Paul Smith]

That is true. That is true. We have a lot of people from the United States come as well. We had a gentleman from the United States and he was buying a suit, and I was pinning the trousers up on this gentleman, and he was talking to his wife, and he said to his wife, he said, oh, yes, you know Jack. You know Jack. And the wife said, jack? And he said, yeah, Jack. He said, paul Smith, supposed to be a nice guy. And I was spinning the man's trousers up. And he didn't realize it was me, like, just spinning the trousers up. So it was quite amusing.

[Podcast Host]

Gabriella, are you. How. How do you interact with the store? I bet you do a lot of clinics, right?

[Gabriela Hearst]

Clinics. I do films. I personally take off, authorize the VM for every one of our stores. Yeah, that's wonderful, because I don't have window displays or mannequins. And so we'd always wanted to achieve this transparency. And I really thought about the psychology of a store when we opened our store in Maison, because it was the beginning of. We had a hit out of the tracks with our bags, but I put the bags all the way in the back. And I had a very small store. But the productivity is super high. So I have this very special, specific language that I wanted to tell in retail, which has worked for us. But the VM is like religion. I change it every week. We change the vm and because it's the only thing we have to sell you is product, right? And how you have to see this product and see the difference, especially in the artificiality of what we live today. You know, I can really tell when a product looks real and it's. And another one is just like a digital product, right? Like it's just for the digital world. And so for us, it's like you have to see the product and there's no window displays, nothing to distract you except product. So VM is religion. So I oversee every single. Every single VM of every store.

[Podcast Host]

Visual merchandising. For those of us not in the biz, it's key.

[Gabriela Hearst]

But it's key because I've Experienced it. It's like you can shift the energy of the VM and you could have a low day the day before and you shifted the VM and it went, especially in New York, become a very local. And Mayfair as well. We became a very local shopping with the locals.

[Podcast Host]

Do you both sell suits more than anything else?

[Paul Smith]

Definitely. For me, yes.

[Gabriela Hearst]

It said 25 of our business. Yeah, it's big. It's big and every color and they want it like.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah, but your suits are so great with a fantastic. The trouser shape is so great. Wonderful. The only, the only time, the only time I. I've seen a trouser similar to that was when I was 18 and I made trousers for Jimmy Page, you know, of Led Zeppelin, and. And he, you know, he was 18 or I was 18, we probably were both 18. And I put the tape measure around his waist and he was 24 inch waist and the bottoms were 28 inch. So, you know, you're, you're, you do these wonderful shaped trousers, which are great. I've got my hair, actually. They're fantastic. Yeah, really beautiful. Yeah.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I love that you both, you both have such an incredible sense of color. And Paul gave me a sneak peek of some of the pieces from the collaboration and they're just. It's truly incredible. How did you two. So you went from being pen pals to doing this whole men's and women's full collection. Like, how did you end up working together?

[Paul Smith]

You know, what's so great is that, you know, even being pen pals, we feel close to each. Well, I feel close to you. Hopefully vice versa. And, you know, one day, you know, Gabriella just said, oh, why don't we do some sort of collaboration? You know, so we just talked about it and my father. I've just dropped my earring again, but anyway, I can still hear you. And my dad was an amateur photographer and so I've got thousands of his photographs. And so we just talked about it and said, why don't we use some of my dad's pictures? You know, because I'm quite well known for my photographic printing onto fabric. And that's really how it started. It was quite quick as well, wasn't it, Gabrielle?

[Gabriela Hearst]

When something clicks and it comes from the heart, it flows. And that was definitely. Yes, it was very much straightforward. Paul said, let's work with some of the images of my father. And I thought that was really personal because I, you know, I also have lost my father. And the connection of having that as a reference always is it's important in the design, at least for me. And he sent, he, he chose the two images and then we selected I think from a few. And then we end up in two. And then we tarsha it, we jacquard it, we had knitted it, we, we take, we took it in all the different cooking methods and it's beautiful. It's beautiful.

[Paul Smith]

And you came to London with your two assistants and I think they enjoyed the building as well, I think, didn't they?

[Gabriela Hearst]

I mean, Lauren, you have to go. This is an experience because first of all it will center at least for me. What I felt is like, it just brings you to what's important immediately. Do you know what I mean? It is like this is why we do what we do. And it's just so incredibly inspiring. You live with energy and every one of my team members left with energy. And you know, as you said, the boring meetings with a train, I was thinking there's two types of meetings, right? The one that they suck your energy and the one that gives you energy. And so the ones that, that's you live with energy. So if you, if you are in London, you must go because you will only feel better.

[Podcast Host]

I'm coming three times next month and I need to be in this life giving studio. It is truly incredible.

[Gabriela Hearst]

The colors everywhere, the imagery. It's like if you're a visual person, it's like you have just landed in heaven. There's nowhere you cannot stop looking. It's like this, like this, like this. And it's beauty everywhere, you know, it's really beauty.

[Podcast Host]

Never have I wished that we did a video podcast more than today because not only do you both look great, but also it's so fun to just like look behind you and see what's going on.

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[Podcast Host]

How are you two from a process perspective and the way you work? Do you work because you do have very similar energy. I can feel the like connection between the two brands so much. When I heard about this I. It just like made me so excited. How do you. Do you all have a similar design process or is it totally different? And what was that like to work together on this?

[Paul Smith]

I think I mean color, love of color, love of texture, simplicity. Keep the styles that we, you know, the actual models we've done are quite simple, very beautiful cuts. But very much about relying on color and photography. And that's why when we did it, it was actually pretty straightforward, you know, very quick.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yeah, I usually paint a lot like that's like the resort collection.

[Paul Smith]

Wonderful. Similar colors.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Exactly. And now like this is poetry that a friend of mine that is sick actually wrote and it's really, really good and it inspired me. So here's her poetry. So I'll paint and then this will inform. But it's, you know, the lovely.

[Paul Smith]

They're so beautiful.

[Gabriela Hearst]

And then I'll scan.

[Podcast Host]

So beautiful.

[Gabriela Hearst]

So it's kind of like I feed the team with sketches because that's a lot of people don't know. This is like knitwear that I sketch a lot. And so this is what fits. And then. But with Paul, I already had the sketch in the shape of, of the photos. So like I'll take sections like for example, if I like really this color situation, I'll take sections of that. But I'm wearing.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Stripes. Also for you, Paul,

[Podcast Host]

there was all

[Gabriela Hearst]

of the colors of the Maria Ginbutas, the stripes. We did it in the fabric.

[Podcast Host]

It looks beautiful.

[Gabriela Hearst]

You know what we have in common though, we both are very analog. Like nobody can like the way that Paul has the, you know how he comes up with his iconic stripes. It's not. It is not. It is.

[Paul Smith]

We take it. Yeah. We do the stripes with a Piece of card and then yarn. And then we just wrap around the yarn and build up the colors. And so we do it very by hand because yarn is three dimensional, so the colors reflect on each other. And so I think we're probably the only one that does it that way because most people use computers all the time. But I, I use something called a notepad and a pen.

[Gabriela Hearst]

I use my, I use my pens, my, my painting stuff to do it. But method is. It's incredible.

[Paul Smith]

I've just put a mustache on you.

[Podcast Host]

Gabriella, thank you for all the listeners. Paul just pulled a notepad out of his jacket and a pen.

[Paul Smith]

A jolly colored pen.

[Podcast Host]

A jolly colored pen. The same color of the trousers that, that they have designed together. Paul, do you sketch also?

[Paul Smith]

No, I'm not very good at sketching. I, I'm more. I write notes more. Just little, just sort of. I'm designed by words more, which is quite interesting. Yeah, I could write like butterfly wings or something like that. And to me, I know what that means. Iridescent colors, colors that clash. So more of a words person.

[Podcast Host]

How did you actually put it together? Did you all just sit in a room and say, we're going to do. We want to do the. Did you have a bunch of words? And Gabriela sketched a bunch of pictures. How did you do it?

[Gabriela Hearst]

Okay, so we basically selected the images. One is like a beautiful mountain and then there's the waterfalls. And we chose this based on the color on the images of Paul's dad. And then we put it in some of our iconic silhouettes. And then Paul's team edited and decided. So it's extremely collaborative in the sense of we would put it together. And then we did a fitting together in London where we played around with the silhouettes and, and created looks and the way that we shot it and style. It is all done with cool New Yorks because for the new audience that they don't know this, but Paul is one of the original punks. So we had to have that edginess. That edginess has to come through the way we shot it as well.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Paul Smith]

One of the most interesting things is my team downstairs. Literally, if you come, Lauren, you would see but for yourself. Because. Yeah, because, you know. Yeah, because this, this is what is called. It's engineered. It's engineered. So I just showed a jacket and obviously if you do a polka dot, you can print it by the meter. You cut it anywhere. But if you want a scene like this is a mountain and you want it to always be on the same place of a jacket. So you have to engineer the print. So my team downstairs, they make a little maquette in paper, like a little dolls. Looks like a doll's dress or a doll's jacket. And then they make that. And then we work it out and then we do the grading for the different sizes. And so it's actually quite precise. And. But luckily the team are so used to, you know, working with me on things like that. So it was. It was not easy, but it was straightforward.

[Podcast Host]

You're tailoring training. How is your tailoring different in terms of how you do tailoring? Because I assume the pro. Your methods are. Are totally different. Or maybe they're not. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Paul Smith]

Can I go first?

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yeah, no, go ahead.

[Paul Smith]

My. My wife studied at the Royal College of Art, and it's a very interesting time with the same time as David Hockney, Peter Blake and many of the great. The great artists was all at the same time. And she studied couture fashion. So it was when I met her, I was 21, and she taught me on the kitchen table about making clothes from a blank sheet of paper, cutting out that and how to make clothes. And then as a young man, I. I went to a lot of the couture shows in Paris. So I went to. I saw with her, and we went to Saint Laurent, with Saint Laurent alive there. And he did the first smoking suit, and he had the. She. She had a trousers suit on, which was considered outrageous. And Chanel with Chanel sitting on the stairs. And. And so my tailoring has been very much about how to make clothes. What, what a pad stitch does, pad stitches, something that you. You put on the front of the jacket. And as you go near to the lapel, you pull the thread tighter and it rolls the lapel. It rolls the lapel. So. And how you put something in the end of the shoulder to give a shoulder more strength. So that's. That's the way I learned. And then Gabriella, I'm not sure.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Well, Gabriela, I used to have another company called Candela, which I started with very little money. $700 each. Partners back in, like 2003. So it was contemporary. And I learned a lot by thousands of mistakes, years of mistakes, because that's what people don't know. Like, success comes from mistakes. They don't come from one hit after another. It comes from being tired to lose, you know? And so Guerrilla Hearts was. I needed. I wanted to learn about tailoring. And at that price point and the tailoring I wanted to Do. I couldn't do it in Candela, so it was really an experiment. And you see in the first collection, it was my first attempt at doing tailoring. But I grew up going to an English school, so I wore uniforms all my life. So I'm very comfortable in a blazer, so. And I understood. And then working through the years, learning more the constructions. We have an incredible supplier, Bon Bsardi in Italy because it's still family owned and I love to tell how great they are. They still do it. All the. It's inside canvas, it's done the old school way. Top stitch everything by hand.

[Paul Smith]

This is all hand stitched.

[Gabriela Hearst]

This is. Yeah, all hands.

[Paul Smith]

Beautiful. That's the pad stitching creates the roll here. And this is something in the end there, like a little wadding. They call it Demet and that gives the strength of the shoulder.

[Podcast Host]

Paul is holding up one of the jackets with the photorealistic.

[Paul Smith]

And then I'm holding up a. This is a little. This is a. A pattern for a. For a. A beautiful coat made by Pauline for my birthday.

[Podcast Host]

Amazing.

[Paul Smith]

She just made the little pattern from a blank sheet of paper. So my wife, so it's so delightful. This is a little toile on a stand that I'm showing everybody.

[Podcast Host]

It will. It looks lovely. It's long. Will it be long when you.

[Paul Smith]

Yes, it's a very fitted coat. Very long.

[Gabriela Hearst]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Podcast Host]

What do you both. You're both wearing jackets right now. I'm not because I just woke up. Yeah, basically. I mean, I went for a coffee meeting in the morning around the corner, but I wear blazers a lot and I love Them. What do you think in this era of I'm wearing a sweatshirt, people wear leggings every day. In America it's even more pronounced than in Europe, I think. But what is the power of it? The magic of wearing one like you both clearly are so comfortable in a jacket.

[Lauren Sherman]

Some people aren't.

[Podcast Host]

What attracts you all to that kind of fashion?

[Gabriela Hearst]

For me you can never be overdressed or underdressed in a suitable. So it's like a security, right. It's like an armor. And especially for women, I feel that shaping the suit one also for men. But if frame I liked my design aesthetic is that what we do, frames the person. The clothes doesn't scream, you see the person right first more than the clothes, but it frames it. And a suit is the most successful tool to always frame it in that way.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah, I agree. I mean any, any museum where you go in the world, the great masters will have a frame around them. And so you know, the suit is like the frame and then your character can come from the shirt, the, the scarf, the socks, the accoutrements that you put with the, with the, the frame and of course the, you know, you, if you a uniform. A lot of people think the suit is like a uniform and it can be, but it's also. It makes you feel very good. It's very practical. It's got pockets. You can, you've got things for your spectacles, for your credit cards, for your phone. This is a lovely thing. And of course in the early, early 80s, Mr. Armani, who is a pal of mine in Italy and me in, in London, you know, we both decided without realizing it that we just deconstructed the suit and so we, we just made this. You know, the suit a few years ago would have been like this, you know, like the front would be really solid. And now we, we made it very soft. We took away a lot of the pads and so it's right wearing a cardigan really. So it's a very different, different thing. I've got a real hunch about the next generation with, with tailoring and with suits because I think that you know, since COVID so many people are dressing in a very casual way that I think, you know, the, the kids that are coming up are 14, 15 now a lot certainly we're seeing it in London. A lot of the young 18 year old bands, 18, 20 year olds, they play on the street here in Soho, right near here. And they're wearing four button suits now, shirts and ties with blonde hair, looking really sexy looking really great. So I think it's just a reinventing the attitude of a suit. It's not actually the suit, it's the fact that suit isn't, it isn't about weddings and funerals and job interviews. It's actually just a very cool thing to wear.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. What do you think, Gabriela?

[Gabriela Hearst]

I agree and I think that the best compliment I ever have is when I have women or CEOs and I've had all sort of women in all different fields just you know, doing the, doing the fight. And they come to me and when they tell me how good they feel in our suits, how powerful they fit in our suits. And we go to every single extent that you can imagine from this is how much I love women. Like every single one of our suits, you can't see it. But in the pocket, underneath this pocket there's another lining which is a silver lining, technically speaking because a majority of silver because it's stops the anti radiation of your phone to your organs. So we've been doing that since the, since the beginning of doing suits because I heard a doctor said to me, don't put your phone there. A female doctor. And this is things that people don't really talk about. And I'm like, you know what? Just to be. I found this material that was used in NASA as a German supplier then. So all our pockets are have anti radiation lining. That's wonderful to that degree of thinking. Just not only 360 design but inside out of what else can we do?

[Podcast Host]

You both, to me you make gendered clothing, but there's something genderless about the ideas behind what you all do. How important was it for the collection that you did together to have men's and women's clothing? And how did you kind of, because Paul, I know you make tons of women's clothing but you're more known as a menswear designer. And Gabriella, same thing. You have a beautiful menswear collection, but you're more known as a womenswear. How did you all kind of approach that part of it, especially in this era, like in this post gender era where so many people are shopping on both sides of the rack.

[Paul Smith]

Gabrielle Schutte, answer that.

[Gabriela Hearst]

I, I, I was, it was natural. We didn't even think we were going to do just one.

[Paul Smith]

That's exactly what I was going to say.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Right. Like we didn't even question was going to be for both. But yeah, I do, you know, I now we mix this when I put the suitings, I'm mixing in the vm. Sorry, I go back to vm, but I'm mixing in the same rack, the men's and the women, because I prefer a men's jacket. You know, I'm very lucky to call Lauren Hutton, one of my friends, and she. Her style has always been like. Like she told me the other day, like, men's jacket. As you age men's jacket, knitwear, and like, some pants, like, you. Like, you kill it with that. So having women have the options to have this oversized jacket is important. And our last show in Paris, we did that. The jackets were most immense.

[Podcast Host]

I love that show was so great.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Thank you. Paul's show. Hi. Like. Like, we. We text each other when we see each other shows.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah.

[Gabriela Hearst]

And Paul sets me like little articles. It's like we. We are. His. His was incredible.

[Paul Smith]

I normally pick out one thing, don't I, when I take shoe, I say, oh, I love the knitwear, or.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yeah, no, he likes.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Paul, you sort of saw the evolution of the gender conversation in fashion, and. And we're so ahead of it in so many ways. Did you see the market moving that way, even when you started all those years ago?

[Paul Smith]

I mean, for me, the. The person responsible for me dressing a lot of women with my men's clothes was Grace Coddington, because she. Grace, who was American Vogue and British Vogue, and. And she just used to use so many of my men's clothes all the time. I mean, I remember using one particular raincoat and one white shirt, like, you know, issue after issue after issue, the same ones, because she found that it really added a different dimension to, you know, the more feminine clothes. Yeah. So. And it was that contradiction of a really oversized raincoat over a very beautiful fitted dress or something like that. So it was really Grace that. That pushed me into making clothes for women for. For women only, because she was. She was using all my men's coats, my jackets, the knitwear. But then she said, you know, sometimes we need a skirt, sometimes we need a trouser that. That fits, you know, or. And that was the. It was her that really did it, you know, and of course, my wife, who I've been with for many, many years, is always dressed in that more, you know, androgynous, masculine way, which she likes very much.

[Podcast Host]

Tell us more about the collection that you ended up making, because I did get a sneak preview before we started recording. But for the audience who can't see all these gorgeous colors and these textures and these knits, like, what did you all put together? I know. Gabrielle, you mentioned the inspiration of Paul's dad and your dad. But tell me more.

[Gabriela Hearst]

So the three ingredients were silk, because I use only natural fiber. So this is a beautiful silk and silk lace. So you have silk wool and cashmere. We cook with those three with that simple, you know, like when you have a food ingredients and they tell you the amount of ingredients. So this is. And so you can put that dress with a matching oversized cashmere sweater and put the men's and the women's to go.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Polish. Holding up this beautiful lace dress and a cashmere sweater with this mountain motif.

[Gabriela Hearst]

And there's a lace.

[Podcast Host]

Is that like a screen print or.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yes, that one is screen printed. That knitwear is printed. And then you have the one that is all intarsia.

[Lauren Sherman]

Gorgeous.

[Paul Smith]

This is printed? Yeah, this is printed. And then this one is. This one's hand knitted. Yes, in Uruguay, truly.

[Gabriela Hearst]

By the not for profit that we work with.

[Podcast Host]

Really beautiful.

[Paul Smith]

I've had to stop 18 people from stealing this today.

[Gabriela Hearst]

I mean, that cashmere, when you touch it, you want nothing else in the world.

[Paul Smith]

No head of security today with this.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. This is the intarsia. And it's just like a gorgeous, chunky, abstract wool. It's really amazing. What do you all feel like as creative people? Like, the value of doing something like this together? Like, it. Obviously you bring each other energy, but why is it important for your kind of journey as creative people to do these types of collaborations?

[Paul Smith]

I think it's just camaraderie. You know, you just. You meet somebody even by text. You know, she's my. She's my text pal. And, you know, we only met for, like, two hours or something, but it doesn't matter, you know, because, you know, you could just feel the simplicity of three words, ten words just saying something that, you know, that you. I mean, I've often sent little photographs of when Gabrielle has done advertising in a newspaper so she can see it, and a comment about a sweater. So it's like, you know, having a good. A good pal that lives a long way away. And it just felt like the same sort of same feeling that we both have about what we do for a living, you know, and it's from the. It's from the heart, you know, it's not from the wallet.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yes, absolutely. And I only do collaborations where it's aligned in the values and. And Paul and his work and his career. It's the. Cannot be more aligned. And his empowerment of youth. Right. Because it's, you know, don't fight the youth and his empowerment of youth has always been part of his mission. Like, even in the conversation, he's looking at what the young people are doing and values like this need to be amplified. So if we can amplify and thank you for having us in your podcast, if we could amplify and motivate more young people to say that it matters your creativity, it matters that you draw, it matters that you're thinking outside of the box. Because as the world is going to come, I think authenticity and human creativity is going to be the excellence. Right. Like this is going to be the. The real.

[Paul Smith]

That's the one thing that, that, you know, we can keep strong is, is touch, love, friendship, craft, handwork, all those things which are given to us as human beings, you know. You know, I'm not sure whether, you know as well, Lauren, I've got a Portsmith foundation, which is. Been about five years now, and that's. We've got 12, 12 young designers and we've got one American boy who's just joined us now. And he. What we try to do is I try to give them all the information about life and business that I never had when I was 21. So, you know, because they're all creative, but, you know, they. I have got amazing mentors who teach them about what is a. What is a collaboration. You know, we talk about collaboration. They don't know what a collaboration is, a lot of them, or what is a. What is a license, what is intellectual property, what is. How do you shoot a campaign, how do you price a collection? So the creativity is one thing. And then trying to help them, you know, understand how the world goes around today. And that balance of the two is really, really important because there's so many good creatives, but sadly, they fall by the wayside because of commerce.

[Gabriela Hearst]

And the more you can light up creativity, which is, I think the reason we exist, humans, is our creativity. The more we light up the. The better this place is going to get, for sure.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Well, that's why I wanted to have you both on, because I wanted to feel the creativity between you two. And I feel like you were really able to impart that. Even though this is an audio medium, not visual, I hope that the audience can sense the beauty and the color and the texture that you all are bringing to this collection because it's like, it's super. It's really dynamite.

[Paul Smith]

Ah, that's lovely. Thank you very much.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Thank you, true love.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you all for being here and congrats and I'm so sad. I'm gonna miss the big launch in la. It sounds like it's gonna be fabulous.

[Paul Smith]

Yeah. It's gonna be good fun. And come and see me in London. Yeah.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

I'm gonna come visit you in London. And. And Gabby, I hope I see you soon.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Somewhere. Yes, please.

[Podcast Host]

Great to catch up.

[Gabriela Hearst]

I'll take you back to the bar.

[Podcast Host]

Yes. The best. It's so fun. Everyone needs to go.

[Gabriela Hearst]

Bye.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you all so much. This was awesome.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbit, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.

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