Stop Copying Me!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Fashion People – "Stop Copying Me!"

Host: Lauren Sherman
Guest: Becky Malinski (Stylist, writer, handbag lover)
Date: June 2, 2026
Podcast Description: Lauren Sherman and guest(s) discuss what fashion insiders are really talking about, from brand strategies and creative shakeups to trends, M&A, and fashion drama.

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Episode Overview

The main theme of this episode centers on originality and imitation in today's fashion world—how brands influence, copy, and compete with each other, with a special focus on totes, bags, and iconic brand moves. Lauren and Becky dive into conversations about Phoebe Philo’s latest drop, the Pacific Tote controversy, the allure of the new Celine bag, Zara’s repositioning, and the ever-changing “it” bag landscape, all while sharing personal anecdotes and behind-the-scenes industry intel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Catch-Up & Setting the Scene

• Lauren is in Los Angeles, connecting with friends and the fashion community, sharing stories of recent events—both personal (dog memorials) and in her newsletter.
• Lighthearted banter about New York and Paris sports celebrations opens the episode, reflecting the relaxed, insider tone of the show.

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2. Phoebe Philo’s Latest Collection Drop

[07:41–14:51]

• The excitement over Phoebe Philo’s newest collection is palpable. The hosts and their social circles instantly responded to certain items, particularly silk shorts and unique shoes not yet released.
• Notable Quote (Lauren, 08:27): “A mutual friend was texting with Jen Brill, who apparently also needs [the little pump], and I just texted her, but it's school run time, so she hasn't responded. But I don't see them on the website yet. Do you see them?”
• Becky is fixated on the green flip flops, debating between those and Miu Miu’s, highlighting the agony of designer footwear choices.
• The white canvas tote bag is a talking point—its crispness and functionality vs. the price and practicality of non-luxury alternatives (L.L.Bean, J.Crew).
• Lauren describes grouptext debates among industry friends over paying €450 for a “scrap of canvas,” and why she still wants it.
• The duo agrees that certain pieces (e.g., easy pants, bikinis) will likely sell out quickly.

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3. Tote Bag Debates: Pacific Tote vs. J. Press

[14:51–22:56]

• Pacific Tote Company, a cult Hollywood-adjacent brand, is embroiled in controversy after J. Press produces a nearly identical color-blocked tote.
• Notable Quote (Becky, 17:06): “It's tough when it is so exact. And when it's a small business...it gives me an ick. It makes me not want to support the copying brand.”
• Lauren reflects on fashion’s unending cycle of inspiration and imitation: “Nothing is original. Everything is a copy of a copy.”
• The issue here: J. Press is a heritage brand with rich archives, so “they have decades of archives of amazing products they could be redoing.”
• Collaboration, not duplication, is suggested as a more ethical and interesting solution.

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4. When Is Brand Borrowing OK? The Celine Calico Bag & Market Nuances

[24:58–35:16]

• The new Celine calico paisley bag sparks discussion—is it a Vera Bradley homage or an original luxury take?
• The difference between direct copying and “pulling from” is unpacked:
  • It's not a direct knock-off; it's reinterpretation with fresh color/fabric choices.
  • Drawing on mass-market vernacular (Vera Bradley, Herve Chapelier), the bag feels “mid-Atlantic” and “prep-adjacent,” but transformed through a luxury lens.
• Notable Quote (Lauren, 28:56): “This is not a direct copy...although I will tell you...once I did, I went to meet—when I was a freelancer—I went to meet an editor at the New York Times...and she says, I love your Shinola bag. And I was like, I gotta leave.”
• Dialogue explores the fine line between homage, irony, and flat-out copying. The Celine example is deemed witty and well-executed—"when the work goes into it, you can feel it."

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5. Celine’s Brand Evolution and Staying Power

[35:16–38:01]

• Lauren and Becky praise Celine’s ability to manage transition between creative directors while keeping loyal customers engaged.
• Suiting, jeans, and trench coats are highlighted as star products. The in-store buying experience, especially around new “looser” fits, generates discussion.
• Celine’s strategy: keeping supply tight to maintain exclusivity and “if you know, you know” cool factor.

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6. The Re-Emergence and Purpose of Bags

[38:01–44:24]

• Irony alert: Lauren and Becky confess to buying multiple statement bags despite previously declaring “the bag is over” on another episode.
• Bags as status symbols are re-evaluated; “no handbag” and “dust bag” trends get their due.
• Notable Quote (Becky, 41:55): “It’s not that the handbag is dead. Obviously. We still need to carry our shit. Our stuff. It’s that we don’t want handbags used as this sort of lazy, dummy item that people are going to blindly spend money on. There has to be some sort of functionality and excitement and a reason for us to want to upgrade.”

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7. Zara as the Next-Gen Fashion Brand

[46:21–50:48]

• Discussion shifts from luxury to high-street. Zara’s collaborations (e.g., with Marisa Berenson, John Galliano), upgraded imagery, and vertical integration are unpacked.
• Becky notes Zara is a styling reference for clients because of its outfit-building, but misses the mark on true quality for grown-up wardrobes.
• The brand’s smart creative hires and polished image elevate them above fast-fashion competitors but presents a conundrum on “age-appropriate” wear and fabric quality.

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8. The Rise, Reach, & Risks of Quince

[50:48–58:05]

• Quince—“Costco online”—is the focus as an Everlane successor and the newest titan in “dupe culture.”
• Their aggressive SEO strategy (e.g., ensuring their “dupes” show up when original brand names are searched) is highlighted as both clever and controversial.
• Both hosts find Quince soulless; Lauren doubts their long-term prospects absent a definitive brand identity.
• Notable Quote (Becky, 55:45): “It feels a bit soulless and I don’t understand the way they want to be clothes for everyone. It doesn’t feel like it has the same brand identity as a Costco or a Uniqlo…Maybe it will work if the only goal is just to sell product and make money. But again, I don’t understand what the vision or goals are.”
• Key insight: Commodity products may drive early sales, but without soul or identity, it’s hard to build loyalty and endurance.

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9. Wedding Suits & Evolving Bridal Norms

[58:05–61:00]

• Final banter revolves around Dua Lipa’s Schiaparelli wedding suit—a “daytime church suit”—and whether it signals a shift in bridal fashion.
• Hosts discuss the growing prevalence of suits and two-pieces for weddings, especially for small or second weddings: “I think there’s something happening in the culture right now…”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[Canvas bags]...it gives me an ick. It makes me not want to support the copying brand.” (Becky, 17:06)
• "Nothing is original. Everything is a copy of a copy." (Lauren, 18:08)
• "The bag... We don't want handbags used as this sort of lazy, dummy item that people are going to blindly spend money on. There has to be some sort of functionality and excitement..." (Becky, 41:55)
• On Quince: "It feels a bit soulless and I don't understand the way they want to be clothes for everyone. It doesn't feel like it has the same brand identity as a Costco or a Uniqlo..." (Becky, 55:45)
• "It doesn't matter if you don't get the context, because it's so good that someone just knows that it’s good." (Lauren, 32:02)
• “So, like, Uniqlo is terrible at marketing, but it knows what it is. And so we all do too.” (Lauren, 57:07)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 07:41 – Phoebe Philo’s latest drop: key pieces, immediate reactions
• 14:51 – Pacific Tote vs. J. Press: When is copying a problem?
• 24:58 – Celine calico paisley bag: luxury “homage” vs copy debate
• 35:16 – Celine’s brand evolution and creative director transitions
• 38:01 – “Bags are over” irony & status symbols re-imagined
• 46:21 – Zara’s new positioning and styling influence
• 50:48 – Quince and the dilemma of “brandless” mass fashion
• 58:05 – Wedding suits as emerging bridal trend

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Episode Tone & Style

The episode blends sharp industry insight with candid, funny, and sometimes snarky fashion banter. Lauren and Becky weave in personal stories, unfiltered opinions, and groupchat gossip that deliver the inside scoop on what fashion people are really talking about. Fans of fashion, branding, and retail intrigue will find plenty to think about—and laugh at—in this no-nonsense, zeitgeist-capturing episode.

Transcript

[New Order Narrator]

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[Becky Malinski]

We're gonna crack this case and prove we're victorious partners of all time. New friends, you are Gary Destiny and your last name the Snake Dream Team.

[Lauren Sherman]

New Habitats Zootopia has a secret reptile population.

[New Order Narrator]

You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. You're clearly barking at Zootopia 2 now available on Disney at Peachy.

[Lauren Sherman]

Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's fashion and beauty memo line sheet and today with me on the show is stylist, writer and handbag lover Becky Malinski. We're talking about Celine and Phoebe, Filo's latest Drops wedding suits, Zara as a fashion brand totes and so much more. Happy Tuesday everyone. Hope you are having a great week. I am in Los Angeles for Hermes on Thursday, Zhenya on Friday and going to see Bell and Sebastian with my college BFFs. Shout out to Pam and Phil on Friday night. Very excited. Then I'm back to Paris. But it's really been nice to be here. Lauren Collins from the New Yorker who is based in Paris is also in town this week. So we're going to do a little drinks thing tonight, which will be fun and I'm going to see a lot of my favorites. Not everyone, but I'll be back this summer. So excited to see you. If I don't see you this time, it's also really nice. I'm staying across the street from one of my very good friends. Hopefully he doesn't mind me saying that. Scott Sternberg, who you probably know, band of outsiders, entire world. He's been on the podcast and he. I'm staying across the street from him in a house. It's amazing. It's like was so lucky. Lucky for me. But he had a little memorial service for his very famous dog Zod, who passed away. He was 12 years old a couple of weeks ago, and Zod was like such a big part of Scott's brands and also just everyone loves him so much. So I was really happy that I was like, I'm across the street. Can I come over? And he was like, actually, I'm doing a memorial for Zod. So it was really nice. And I don't know, there's like a lot of people I know whose dogs. My dog passed away a couple of months ago. It's like just a lot of that happening. But then you hear about Katie Grann has a new Hungarian viza, which I grew up with a Hungarian visa, so we bonded over that, but called Bunny, who she texted me this morning. Apparently he likes to listen to fashion people, so. Hi, Bunny. Anyway, that's a little bit of a divergence. I know you didn't expect that I'd be a person to anthropomoritize my pets, but I am. Anyway, this week in line Sheet, I discussed the business of being Pharrell. And Malik's got an update on quints where Pharrell is an investor. And I've got intel on how Jason Bolden started styling Josh o', Connor, which has been blowing up my text, AKA Amanda Dobbins, who's very into into it. But it's been interesting to hear about how that happened behind the scenes because Josh has such, you know, was working with Harry Lambert forever has amazing style. So read about that line sheet. And Rachel has essential Estee Lauder intel. And there's always more. I hope to see you around this week, but again, if I don't, I'll be back in the summer. That's it. Let's get over with Bec. Becky Malinski, welcome back to Fashion People.

[Becky Malinski]

Morning, Lauren. Thanks for having Me.

[Lauren Sherman]

Go Knicks.

[Becky Malinski]

Go Knicks.

[Lauren Sherman]

Are the, are the Knicks still in?

[Becky Malinski]

Oh my God, yes. And the city is electric and it's so wonderful.

[Lauren Sherman]

You know, Can I just tell you, the only sports team I've ever cared about is the New York Knicks from 1994 to 1996 or 1993 to 1997 or so.

[Becky Malinski]

Well, perfect time to be back in America.

[Lauren Sherman]

I really feel bad for like John Starks and Patrick Ewing and all, and Bill Cartwright, all my guys. I think Bill Cartwright was on the Knicks and the Bulls. Don't quote me on that. I was really into basketball for like three years because I played basketball. So I was like very into it. Yeah, please, I was tall. Okay. Well, anyway, I shouldn't be talking about this, but I'm excited for everybody that the Knicks are good.

[Becky Malinski]

Me too.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's nice. I really don't have any affinity for sports though, at this point.

[Becky Malinski]

Well, the weirdest thing is that it's the World cup in New York.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh. Yeah.

[Becky Malinski]

I have no concept of soccer or football, so apparently there's like traffic and hysteria. But everyone seems to be more focused on the Knicks. Obviously.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was funny because I was in Paris on Saturday and there was the sort of, I guess the. Some championship. We should look it up. And Paris and St. Germain won this championships league maybe.

[Becky Malinski]

We can't be experts on everything.

[Lauren Sherman]

It was basically the super bowl of football. And I was out at dinner. My husband was very worried. He took our kid to go see it and he was like, I just think it's gonna be crazy. And. And I went out to dinner with some friends and I was really worried we weren't going to get. Be able to get a seat at this place that doesn't take reservations. And in the end, I mean, everybody was at places to watch it, so we were able to eat and enjoy it. And then when I was walking home like around 11, this was like 11, 11:30. It was so fun to see these people in the street just going nuts over this stuff. But it was like in an area of town that's not so crazy that it would be annoying. Like I enjoyed it. And also it was a 15 minute walk home, so it was fine. But yeah, it's fun. It's fun when the weather is good and this stuff happens. I'm very happy for the city of Paris that their team won and I'm very happy for the New York Knicks. I don't know any of the players names these days.

[Becky Malinski]

It's fine.

[Lauren Sherman]

John Starks forever. Okay.

[Becky Malinski]

Okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

Becky.

[Becky Malinski]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

So it's a weird news week. There wasn't. There wasn't like a lot of major stuff that has happened in the past week. I guess it's because it's summer, but there's a lot of shopping going on. I wanted to talk to you about what we've been discussing this morning, which was Phoebe Philo. First drop of collection either. Um, what are you. What are you thinking? I, I immediately the first image is this. It's. It's a woman in a pair of, like, little silk shorts, which I cannot find on the site. I'm sure they're there somewhere. And then also these shoes that don't seem to be live yet. Oh, my God, the little pump. I. I mean, I. I must get these.

[Becky Malinski]

You must have those.

[Lauren Sherman]

A mutual friend was texting with Jen Brill, who apparently also needs them, and I just texted her, but it's school run time, so she hasn't responded. But I don't see them on the website yet. Do you see them?

[Becky Malinski]

I do not.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. So what are you. What are you looking at? What are you thinking? Why do you. Do you. I have a feeling a lot of stuff in this collection is going to sell out.

[Becky Malinski]

I mean, this email came at maybe a good time, maybe a terrible time because I could not find. Focus on prepping for this podcast because the new arrival came out.

[Lauren Sherman]

Becky.

[Becky Malinski]

What?

[Lauren Sherman]

Prepping?

[Becky Malinski]

I don't know. I just got nervous like 10 minutes before, I guess. But I really want the green flip flops. Yeah, but I was also considering those Mew Mew flip flops. So now I'm like, I cannot buy both. Two designer flip flops. That is so tragic.

[Lauren Sherman]

What are the flip flops?

[Becky Malinski]

They're like, they have a nice tan base and they come in a rubbery. It comes like rubbery leather.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, yeah, they're nice.

[Becky Malinski]

Yellow or white.

[Lauren Sherman]

They're nice. I think, I think that the Phoebe ones are gonna be more comfortable because these are really flat but special. I don't know. These are quite nice. Quite nice too.

[Becky Malinski]

Love that. That white canvas tote is gonna look so good beat up.

[Lauren Sherman]

Can we just talk about though? I need to. I promise. The other. Another one of my text chains. Rachel. And a person who shall remain remaining

[Becky Malinski]

if we're on Instagram.

[Lauren Sherman]

Pardon?

[Becky Malinski]

Who will all know come the topic. If we're on Instagram.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, this person was. Like I said, I'm going to get the white canvas bag. I need a carry all for Paris because I need something that's not sweaty. I'm going to bring back my dragon Diffusion bag from la. But I need a sweaty thing that I. A thing that's not going to be sweaty to hold my laptop when I. When I go around. And they said, I. I said, I need to carry off for Paris. Rachel. No. It's a scrap of canvas. 450, exclamation point. If this was Gap, you would never buy Euros. And then the third party who will remain. I don't know why I can't say that. It's very early here. Remain anonymous. Just puts a popcorn. I said, hahaha. Okay, Rachel, Hahaha. But I need a bag. Rachel, you're better than this. That's not sweaty. Becky telling me. Yes. And Rachel says, I'm confident in your abilities to find one. It's ll be with a pocket. We've all lost our minds. And we have. I said, but L.L. bean doesn't have a pocket.

[Becky Malinski]

And L.L. be not this crisp of a white.

[Lauren Sherman]

I really like this white and I like the way the square looks. But this person says he doesn't like this one for different reasons. I'm revealing it's a man. You're still not going to get who it is. I said, I don't know, guys. I like it. We'll think on it. And then Rachel asked me to write about it and I said, I'll talk about it on the podcast. And what they said was they like a non luxury canvas tote with a luxury handbag. So like, I have that little Phoebe I got for an advanced birthday present. It's a little suede, which I guess I am gonna have to start doing this as a. I got the suede. It's called the glove pochette in black suede, which is awesome. It's been like an amazing bag for. It's a great. It's like the bag that I've been wanting, which is like a bag you take to lunch and you take to dinner and it's fabulous. But they were saying that they prefer like an L.L. bean with an Hermes trim or Rachel carries her gig bag with her puck. LL Bean like that combo. And to not get a designer cotton thing. But I really like the kind of. I like the way you said it's crisp and the, the sharpness of it.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

And the pocket looks like almost puffy. It's really good.

[Becky Malinski]

I don't know. I love it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, I want to talk about another canvas bag, but. But what were you gonna say?

[Becky Malinski]

This is the canvas bag I thought you were going to bring up before.

[Lauren Sherman]

Which. Which one?

[Becky Malinski]

The Pacific.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I do want to talk about the Pacific Tote. So I do own the Pacific Tote. I own the very large style Pacific Tote in multicolor limited edition that has a zip that's really good for taking to the pool. But I also use it as my carry on when I travel these days. I just find it to be easy.

[Becky Malinski]

Before we get into it. I think the best canvas Carry on tote is this one from J. Crew that's like a gardening tote and they had made it as a collab with the New Yorker a couple years ago. It has. Yeah, it has six exterior pockets. So with, you know, when you're with a kid, like a wipes a water bottle. But it looks chic. And now this summer they just came out with it with like lots of great looking weathered like bean colors. Highly recommend. Yeah, love the pockets.

[Lauren Sherman]

I want to talk more about the Pacific Tote drama on social media. Thanks to Nomi Frye who's created it with. With reason. But is there anything else from the Phoebe for a show? I just think what I will say is because you were saying you're. You're trying to buy a club loafer. I think a lot of this stuff's gonna sell out. I just have there. It was too immediate of a reaction from all my shopping friends. Also the, the bikini top and bottom seem great because it's like a fold down bikini and so it's adjustable and you can like hide what you want. I'm not getting it. Don't worry. It's not for me. But for other people maybe I. I'm struggling with that.

[Becky Malinski]

If you have boo any boobs at all, that top is not going to work. Is so hard to wear. Unless you already have a nice glow.

[Lauren Sherman]

They have it in. In stucco also.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah, those colors.

[Lauren Sherman]

I like the. I love the little scooped one piece too. But that's a. That's a bodysuit. Maybe I should get the that for summers. Is there anything else in the Phoebe before we move on to Pacific Tote?

[Becky Malinski]

We can move on. We can move on.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay. It looks good though. Also the pull on pants. She did like a easy pant version. It's €600. It's gonna. This stuff's gonna sell like nutty. It's gonna be really interesting. Anyway, moving on. The Pacific Tote is this little company that's like somehow adjacent to Roman Coppola or the Coppola's overall. Like one of the Coppolas part owns it. It. It is operated out of the same office that Roman Copa's business or I don't know, is his business the Director's Bureau. Chris Chang works at the Director's Bureau and it's somehow. I believe it is Robin Coppola's. Anyway, Chris Chang, friend of. Of. Of the pod, I guess is how you would say it. But anyway, Pacific Toe company is like a very fun. If you work in Hollywood and you live on the east side or are, you know, think you're cool, you might have one. This is why I have one. Because I'm not cool, but I think I am or I don't, you know, I want to be cool, whatever. No, they're cool, but no, it's really cute. They're just really nicely nice. Nice Totes. And I feel like you're supporting a small business. So Nomi Fry, who's very good friends with Chris Chang and friends with everyone because she's a lovely human being, she posted that the wonderful brand J Press that was recently the guy who used to do running rowing blazers became the creative director. They made basically a full on knockoff of the Pacific tote. And Nomi posted and was like, this kind of blows. I guess my question for you and I'll say say how what I really think about it but when this kind of stuff happens where like one company blatantly copies another, like how mad are you? Do you think there's a point in being mad? Do you think that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? Like how do you feel about it?

[Becky Malinski]

I think it's tough when it is so exact.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Becky Malinski]

And when it's a small business. So when I saw that, the first thing I thought of. Did you see recently that Wilson knocked off Spence's ad campaign for. So Spence did this ad campaign where they filled an entire vintage red car with tennis balls. It's very cute. Wilson literally took the same idea and did a pop up at Mercy in Paris with the concept. And it's really tough when it's a big brand that has, you know, private equity backing. Doing this to a small brand and it's so much harder. I mean, it's weirdly easy to get away with, but it's harder to get away with because you can get called out so easily. So I don't know, it just, it gives me an ick. It makes me not want to support the copying brand, which is tough and sad, I guess. I don't know. I think it's icky and it makes me want to support the small brand.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, look, so I reposted Nomi probably because I was highly emotional, getting off of a 12 hour flight or a 10 hour flight. And I had watched Hamnet, I had just finished Hamnet. So I posted immediately because I had mine and was like, this is so dumb. Look, here's the thing. Generally I. I used to work at this publication called Fashionista, which is still up and running. Shout out to Donnie, my former intern and current editor and chief of Fashionista, Donnie Mao. I would say we used to have this thing called Adventures in Copyright that Faron Krentzel, the first editor of Fashionista originated. It was a really awesome column where we would post a photo of a new thing and a photo of an old thing and we changed some things. There would be brands that would pull stuff. I remember I believe it was Pamela Love with a luxury brand, maybe Chanel. But honestly, I think it was Chanel. Like Chanel didn't make the bracelet or something. Like something like that happened. This is 15 years ago. The thing I would say is my feeling is nothing is original. Everything is a copy of a copy. And you start to get into Target knocking off sporty and rich. Is that actually bad for sporty and rich? I don't know. Like, I don't know if those kinds of things actually matter in terms of sales. And when you think about would all these luxury brands be as big if Canal street didn't exist? I don't know. I think that it exposes people to new things. That being said, the reason that this bothers me is because J Press is a great brand. J Press does not need to copy Pacific Toe company. They have decades of archives of amazing products that they could be re redoing and so. And look like it isn't patchworking a canvas tote with like blocked color. It's not like the most original idea in the world, but it's very clearly. Also the logo looked from. From afar look similar. I just think. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if there's anything that Pacific Tote company could do anyway. But I think the bigger thing is J Press needs to make great stuff. And they should be mining what they have, which is incredible. And instead of like, this just feels like a bit of a. When high speed gets knocked. Yeah, when High sport gets knocked off. To me it just says that High Sport makes great pants. High sports pants are still the best ones. They fit the best. They don't make you look dumpy like the rest of them do. It's annoying, but I think like High sport can rise above. In this case, I just don't think this needed to happen. There's probably many other alternatives.

[Becky Malinski]

The brands feel too similar in brand identity maybe. And it's not a target knocking it off. It's a small brand knocking off another small brand. So you would hope that they have a bit more integrity.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I think that's part of it. I. Yes, I think that that is part of it. It's not like all those high sport pants that came that were never going to be as good as the high sport. This is like in a totally different price point. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what would have been really cool is actually for J. Press to collaborate with Pacific Tote. Like, that's what they should have done. So anyway, Pacific Toe is really great. I love it. I think the style section should, like, do a profile of it or something. But it's. I love. This is honestly the. I'm. I'm pretty. It's pretty tough for me to find stuff like this for some reason. And it's been. And you can get them on Posh. Poshmark. There's a really cute one right now for 125, so go for it. Support Pacific Tote and. Oh, it's interesting. I Google Pacific Tote and the J. Press one comes up as the third shopping search. Also, Los Angeles apparel has a really good cotton bag, which maybe I'll just get that instead of getting the Phoebe one.

[Becky Malinski]

Great. Do it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Wow. It's really good.

[Becky Malinski]

I just bought a vintage Hermes. Those canvas little portfolios.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, amazing.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah. From what's the one in Brooklyn? Front Street General.

[Lauren Sherman]

Love Front Street General.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah, so that's a good option too.

[Lauren Sherman]

So good.

[New Order Narrator]

A few years ago, brands were still trying to figure out what modern wholesale should look like. Now, almost everyone uses a platform. The real question is, why are so many teams still struggling to keep keep up At New Order by Lightspeed, One thing we hear constantly from brand leaders is we have the tools, but we're still drowning. The reality we're seeing is that teams are stuck in the basics, jumping between systems and managing orders manually. In fact, our research shows nearly nine out of 10 brands still rely on these manual workarounds just to get through the day. It's called the toggle tax, and it makes it impossible to stay agile when demand shifts. But when your inventory and retail partnerships are aligned, it creates a ripple effect that protects margins and drives growth. At New Order by Lightspeed, we work with global brands and retailers, from Coach and Tory Burch to Nordstrom, Bloomingdale, Shopbop and more. Sitting close to these wholesale transactions gives us a rare look at how those back end decisions ultimately dictate what consumers can actually find and buy. That perspective is built into New Order's platform. It was designed by industry insiders who understand both sides of the wholesale relationship. And now, through our direct integration to Lightspeed Point to sale, brands and retailers can track real time sales and reorder quickly. So the right products are always on the floor and shoppers never leave empty handed. Learn [e-mail] that's n u o r d e r dot com what if

[Lauren Sherman]

everything you learn in history class was

[Becky Malinski]

only half the story? I'm Dr. Haruni Bhatt, host of Hidden History.

[Lauren Sherman]

Every Monday I go where history gets mysterious.

[Becky Malinski]

Vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, paranormal phenomena and events that science still can't fully explain.

[Lauren Sherman]

On Hidden History I treat these moments

[Becky Malinski]

like open case files.

[Lauren Sherman]

Not myths, not superstition, just incomplete explanations

[Becky Malinski]

waiting for a closer look.

[Lauren Sherman]

Listen to and follow Hidden History available

[Becky Malinski]

now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Lauren Sherman]

One more bag I wanted to talk to you about the Celine calico paisley mixed print which again speaking of brand,

[Becky Malinski]

making a bag from brand.

[Lauren Sherman]

But this is. But how different. Let's talk about how this is different. Yeah, so the bag that can you describe the bag we're referring to? I don't even know if it's on sale yet, but it's definitely sold out. What Even if it's not on sale

[Becky Malinski]

because which actually brings us which let's bookmark. Talking about the pre order economy. It was they they put it on Instagram and it was like it's these calico patchwork big weekend bags that are reminiscent of a old fashioned Vera Bradley bag, but feels really refreshed and rejuvenated in the color combination and the fabric choices. And it just looked really fun. Like everyone freaked out. I had clients text me being like do you think I can get this bag?

[Lauren Sherman]

Like I can ask Michael Ryder's use of the right purple and purple and red together. Because purple is I would say my no offense to my wonderful, wonderful mother in law Susan. I love her. She's my number one of our parents. No offense to any of the other ones. But anyway she loves purple and I am just I it's a real tough color for me. But I Michael Ryder's purple is the perfect purple and the way way he pairs it with the red is so

[Becky Malinski]

you know, why wait let me pull up. I think it's because it has undertones of blue. It's not like a fuchsia he doesn't use a fuchsia purple. He uses like a. A collegiate purple. It's just.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, it's so good. It's so good. So let's talk a bit about. So I think this bag is amazing. I love the way they use the Celine logo. Again, this was another thing. I ended up writing a whole item on it because I was just like, this is awesome. And I also feel like Vera Bradley is back in the water. To me, it really does have like a very. And Vera Bradley is from Indiana, so it made more sense to me. It. You. You could really think of it as being like preppy east coast, but it has like a very mid Atlantic vibe. And there's these other bags. What are those other bags that I actually have a bunch of that are French Longchamp. No, they are color blocked.

[Becky Malinski]

Herve Chapelier.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, Herve Chapelier. It's the same era of these bags were like popular with teenage girls and sorority girls. I never had either of them growing up. And I didn't really know about Herve Chappellier. Vera Bradley was around indefinitely in college. But what was your experience growing. Did you have these bags in Minnesota? Were you. Was this part of your. Did you play lacrosse?

[Becky Malinski]

They did not have lacrosse in Minnesota when I was growing up.

[Lauren Sherman]

Really?

[Becky Malinski]

That was not a thing yet.

[Lauren Sherman]

After basketball, I moved on to lacrosse. In high school I did lacrosse.

[Becky Malinski]

Go Go Timberwolves. I'm pretty sure they're out already. I. My cousin studied abroad who was three years older than me, and brought back a Hervey Chapelier. I had not heard of it, but then when I got to Wisconsin freshman year of college and had one was like, I was in with the in crowd because all the east coast girls had them.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes.

[Becky Malinski]

So was very grateful to my cousin Alison shout out for bringing that back. I think I still have it. It was black with like a periwinkle base.

[Lauren Sherman]

I have a periwinkle base. One that's so good.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

With like a weird brown.

[Becky Malinski]

But I want to. What's curious to me is like, this is luxury brand. Pulling from like a more well priced brand. And why does that feel more okay? And how is that different from like, remember Balenciaga doing the Ikea bags? It's sort of like, where do we decide what's okay and what's not? It's so interesting.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, so this is not a direct copy. So that's the. The main thing. It's not a direct copy. Like you. You would never think this was a Vera Bradley bag. Although I will tell you.

[Becky Malinski]

We wouldn't. But honestly, people might.

[Lauren Sherman]

You know, I will tell you, once I did, I went to meet. It wasn't an interview. I went to me. I. When I was a freelancer, I went to meet an editor at the New York Times. This person will remain nameless. It's so good though. So I go to meet her to talk about story ideas and I was like this. I'm never going to write for this person. She's just not. It's not. We're not vibing and we leave. And I had a Celine trio in red that I still own. That's like such a great little bag. And she says, I love your Shinola bag. And I was like, I gotta leave.

[Becky Malinski]

Like, thank you so much.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you. But it's a, it's kind of a thing of like, yes, you're right. There might be some people. I don't know. I think the Celine bag is, is different enough that like someone would be like, oh, that kind of. That looks like. Is that a Vera Bradley? They got really nice or something. But I think the biggest difference is it's not an exact copy. And also it's a mass market item that's being reinterpreted in a different way. So like, we also don't get mad at. I think there are examples of this on like everybody copies. Look at the trim, the Hermes trim. Everybody's copied that. Nobody's mad at anyone for copying that. I mean, that's like Hermes almost direct competitors copying it. But still, like, I think that that is when you're, when you're. It's a different market and there is a real reinterpretation. It totally makes sense. Like the Pacific Totes are definitely reinterpretations of L.L. bean bags. Or. And I'm sure L.L. bean is the. I think it's. That it's not, it's not a full on direct copy. And also because you assume maybe not correctly, but that a luxury bag is going to be made with better materials and things or, or like with, with Balenciaga, ikea. That to me is like you're buying into the psych kind of concept and that's it. Like almost like a piece of art.

[Becky Malinski]

I think too there's a sense of irony that comes with it. Less sense of humor that that works when this designer who has this great idea puts it out into the ether. I think where it gets tricky is that at these price points, the way people are wearing it can become tragic more quickly when it becomes just designer on designer on designer. And there's no understanding of that irony. It's kind of funny.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, I think. And I think the reason that the Celine bag. Because I don't. I would have never, ever in the whole. My whole wide world ever carried a Vera Bradley.

[Becky Malinski]

No, me neither. And I love the Celine one.

[Lauren Sherman]

Same. Agreed. I don't think I would buy the Celine one just because I don't. Can't buy everything in the entire world, especially if I'm buying it. I'm not gonna buy the Phoebe tote. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get this Los Angeles apparel thing instead. But that could be controversial. But I think it doesn't matter because what someone like Phoebe Filo or Michael Ryder or any of these designers who make, like, Simone's Clark the Hood shoe or whatever, like, it's a similar thing. It doesn't matter if you don't get the context, because it's so good that someone. Someone just knows that it's good. They may not have all the. But when you do the research. Who was I talking to? I was talking to a designer or photographer or something about this on a recent podcast that may not have run yet. But it was basically like, if you do the research, then the work is better. So you have to do a lot of research, and then the work is better. And I think, like, the reason all these things work, even though they're just, like, reinterpretations of other stuff, is because the work went into it beforehand. And when the work doesn't go into it, you can feel it.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

And it doesn't matter if you're not, like, educated on this stuff. So I think, yeah, look like if they made too many Celine. These Celine bags, could it end up feeling ubiquitous? And we'll all be disappointed. Sure. But, like, it's fine. It's fashion that happens.

[Becky Malinski]

And Celine is not making a lot of each thing yet. It feels like the special pieces.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, I agree.

[Becky Malinski]

Like, there was that.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's still. If you know, you know for sure.

[Becky Malinski]

Yes. And it's hard. And it's still hard to get certain piece. Like, certain pieces that are, you know, less commercialized for the store.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. Yeah. And I think this next collection we went. We had a beautiful day at the showroom together. It was so special. But we went to the Re See together, and I was like, I need these shoes. I. I want to get the black trench with the plaid. It's incredible underneath. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna get that. But. But the suit.

[Becky Malinski]

Oh, my God.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, the suit. The suit. I will not Get. Because I have enough. I have so many black jackets at this point. Like, it's.

[Becky Malinski]

I kind of need the suit.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think you should get the suit.

[Becky Malinski]

I kind of think the suit is gonna be my fall uniform.

[Lauren Sherman]

I love it. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get the black trench for sure. But, yeah, I think what I saw was, honestly, the best transition from designer to designer has been at Celine, and maybe that's because they have their CEO. Severine has been there since Phoebe, and she's really good and has been. Has managed it. But, like, there is a customer who shopped all three. I shopped all three. I actually. Maybe I never bought a Hetty Celine thing, but I, like, appreciated it. Like Samira Nasser, I always think of, like, she definitely bought all three. It was a good transition from Hetty to Michael.

[Becky Malinski]

But, yeah, I feel like they were able to keep the wardrobing proposition while having unique ideas. And not everyone's able to do that.

[Lauren Sherman]

Exactly. I just got a. Oh, I just got some intel. Ooh, Selene. From a good source. Celine starting to turn up. So it's working great. Another LVMH brand that I really love. I'm not going to say numbers apparently take tanking. I'll have to. I'll have to get more intel on that one. But happy to share that from a source. Celine's starting to turn up as we speak.

[Becky Malinski]

Oh, incredible.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's awesome.

[Becky Malinski]

I just bought the jeans. The number two, like, carrot jean.

[Lauren Sherman]

Should I get. We have totally different bodies.

[Becky Malinski]

Probably not. No, no.

[Lauren Sherman]

Should I get different?

[Becky Malinski]

Really? You know what? I will say it was a very strange experience buying them, though, because in the store, like, I. I like my clothes to fit big. I like them to fit sort of the way they fit on the Runway in interesting proportions. And I think it's going to be an as proportions change. The most interesting thing is seeing how that transitioned to the store. Because in the store, they were like, no, no, no. It runs big. Try smaller. I was like, no, no, no, no. I think this runs true to size. I want my size. I will order both into the store for me to try, and I will try it to humor you. But it was like a real back and forth, and, like, they were very nice. And I think, you know, people are just used to things like fitting really tight.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Becky Malinski]

Especially there. And so that is going to be an interesting education to the consumer, because I was like, nope, my size fits perfect. I will take them.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's also interesting there. I have a friend who is a CMO and she and I have totally different taste. We never like the same collections. We're always. She's like, wait, you like that? And she is obsessed with the Celine pants. And she wears her clothes. She wears her clothes loose.

[Becky Malinski]

Okay, so she doesn't wear those super skinny pants.

[Lauren Sherman]

She wears, like, the, she got a pair of the. No, she never would. She's very petite and, and curvy. And.

[Becky Malinski]

Which pants is she wearing? The wide leg crops.

[Lauren Sherman]

Maybe. Maybe.

[Becky Malinski]

Love it.

[Lauren Sherman]

She was like, I love them. I'm obsessed. And it's also not her. Like, she, she doesn't have. She. You wouldn't expect her to be. To wear Celine. Like, it's. Her style is not like French bougie. She's. She's like, very la. Very. She loves it. So I think it's an. It's. It's gonna be a real thing. It's exciting.

[Becky Malinski]

It's exciting.

[Lauren Sherman]

Becky, I just want to say, I think it's so funny that we've been talking so much about bags when we did a whole segment about how bags are over and everyone should just be carrying a dust bag.

[Becky Malinski]

I know. And since then, I've bought two bags.

[Lauren Sherman]

I. The same.

[Becky Malinski]

And I went to the Gucci show in New York, which was a, which was great. And the bag. I went to the Reese, and the bags were so good.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm so glad. I, I, I knew they were gonna nail, nail the pr. I thought the boots looked amazing at that show.

[Becky Malinski]

The boots were good. Back to the boots. Should I get the boots? One second. No, you should. We're gonna do a. We're gonna do a spending freeze with you and meditate on what's actually needed.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay.

[Becky Malinski]

The bag. They even showed the bags in the showroom, which I thought was so clever, with laptops in them.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh.

[Becky Malinski]

So that you could see that this tote could carry your laptop and still be a chic bag. I was like, oh, this is really smart.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's really smart. I'm excited. I have a big story on caring coming out on Thursday. The PR people don't know yet. I should email that. But one of the things I'm going to write is I've heard they're, like, really going long on Demna and investing in. In it big time. So don't think otherwise, people.

[Becky Malinski]

I really liked the clothes in the showroom. I mean, a lot of it felt vintage, but, like, listen, not everyone is going to scour Etsy for the right silk scarf shirt. And, like, the pieces broken down. It was beautiful coats, beautiful shirts, the jeans Looked incredible. It just felt like, again, a wardrobing proposition. That felt cool.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, 100%. I think that idea of, like, people. Not everyone goes vintage shopping every single week. Like, I went to the St. Laurent outlet or St. Laurent DISCA. You're not supposed to use the word

[Becky Malinski]

outlet, but not outlet.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. At Bicester Village. And I got. I got a pair of jeans that are, like pretty traditional skinny jeans, and then two skirts and just a white shirt. But I tried on a bunch of the, like, silk blouses, and I didn't buy them because I do have. I have, like, a lot of St. Laurent Reeve gauche silk blouses and a full line St. Laurent blouse. But, like, I don't need to do that because I go vintage shopping a lot, but a lot of people don't. And also, yeah, if it's good, it's good.

[Becky Malinski]

If it's good, it's good.

[Lauren Sherman]

It doesn't really matter. Yeah. But I think, Becky, I do think. I do believe we deserve the credit for the no handbag handbags.

[Becky Malinski]

We do.

[Lauren Sherman]

We don't need to go there. It's funny. This is all about copying, because when another publication wrote about no handbag handbags and did not reference us, we were both really upset. Even though I never get mad about stuff like that because people have been copying my stories for 20 years. There was a reporter at the Wall Street Journal that used to just literally use the same sources as me and rewrite the story. And I never said anything ever to her. That's crazy. That I never will forget.

[Becky Malinski]

I just think. I think we're sensitive about it because people got so, like, passionate about their response to us.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. I mean, I had CEOs calling me. Yeah.

[Becky Malinski]

I had so many different types of people reaching out. People really angry at me. And so I just sort of felt like, oh, well, okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think without. Without saying, basically, a publication wrote about how nobody wants handbags anymore and then never referenced us. And it just felt like it's fine. They could have. I think the.

[Becky Malinski]

The. And the thing is that I've realized since we did that podcast and I've had to do a lot of soul searching on all the people attacking me. It's not that the handbag is dead. Obviously. We still need to carry our shit. Our stuff. Say that it's that we don't want handbags used as this sort of lazy, dummy item that people are going to blindly spend money on. There has to be some sort of functionality and excitement and a reason for us to want to upgrade.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. That Handbag is a signifier of status and your place in the world has been challenged because everybody has Correct. Has them. And then also it's just kind of tacky.

[Becky Malinski]

So status is now not. Is sort of having something that's a bit more interesting and off the beaten path.

[Lauren Sherman]

So, like, I bought at shop the story, our favorite vintage shop in Milan. Shout out. We love you. Amazing. She. We love you. I bought a. I kind of want to have her on the podcast to just talk about Miu Miu and Prada.

[Becky Malinski]

You should.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm going to. I need to. I need to book it. But I got a Prada clutch that has a little nylon from 1988. And I. Then I got a Miu Miu clutch or a little bag. You helped me with these purchases from like 2008. And those are. I love. And I've been wearing around a lot. And this Phoebe envelope pochette thing is. It's not an envelope, it's the pochette. It's. It doesn't have a chain, it's a leather strap. But that has been amazing.

[Becky Malinski]

Is it like the little saddle one? It's like curved at the bottom?

[Lauren Sherman]

No, it's square. I'll send you a link. It looks sort of like the envelope one, but it's a pochette. So it's almost like I like that bag. And it has, it has the look of the gig, but it's not three parts or the trio. But it's not three parts. It's really great. I love it. I've been using it a lot. And, you know, I have this issue where I have too much leather, so I need suede to break it up. So it's been, it's been really nice. But yeah, I think, like, I also think, yeah, the dust bag and Celine made a great one too. And I think the Celine bags are just really, really good.

[Becky Malinski]

I also just like the idea of an easy bag. Like, so I just bought this row bag in their end of season sale, the nan, which is like a really soft, flat bag that's kind of like the pochette that you're talking about. And it has a big flap. It's not that small, but it wears very easy. And I actually talked to Simone about this in the showroom after Jill that I was like, you just want. When the clothes are really, like structured and you're feeling really dressed, you just need some sort of sense of ease. And I think that's where relaxing your handbag helps.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's so funny. The nan bag, which is on my Teresa right now for 1645 in Brown, if people want it. Let me just make sure it's on.

[Becky Malinski]

That's the color I got.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it's 30 off. I. It's so funny. Over Christmas, I went to the store with Claire Mazer and I almost bought it, but I didn't. And I'm glad I bought. I. I really love the. Because I was like, this is actually. I don't know why this isn't. It's not the most expensive thing in the whole world. And also, I need a bag like this. I. I really like the pochette that I got from Phoebe, but this is awesome, too. And it looks like the one that they have on my Teresa is quite big.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah, mine can really fit a lot.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Becky Malinski]

My pochette's small, is very delicate. You don't want to overfill it.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, totally. It's not a. You're not.

[Becky Malinski]

Not a laptop.

[Lauren Sherman]

But, yeah, I think that that's. It's a similar vibe of. Of bag. And also, I love the Phoebe bags. And I'm sure that the nan is like this too. The stamp. The emboss that. She doesn't do a stamp. She doesn't emboss or it's just. No, it's. A stamp is inside, so you can't see it because, you know, that's obviously.

[Becky Malinski]

And these row ones now, it's. The stamp is very. It's not in gold or anything. It's like on the back. And very little to me. Timing perfect, same color, Beautiful.

[Lauren Sherman]

There were two other things I wanted to talk to you about. One was this keeps coming up in. Our friend Leander Medine messaged me because, you know, she's been doing a lot of styling work for. For Zara.

[Becky Malinski]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm so fascinated by Zara right now. Every collaboration they do is really interesting. They did a collaboration with Marissa Berenson, like, for Home.

[Becky Malinski]

What?

[Lauren Sherman]

The campaigns look great. Someone messaged me and was like, the campaigns look really great. And I wrote. Ludivine Poblan, who is now the artistic director of apc, works there too, works at Zara as well. Her. Her partner, husband Fabian Baron, is the one who's doing all these amazing campaigns. But they've really done a good job of. They saw what was happening in the market with Shein and other things like Temu or whatever. Can't even remember the names of these things, and decided to try to move up market a bit and focus on the fact that they're vertically integrated. The stuff is pretty good. Quality. And so maybe come see Kamsa.

[Becky Malinski]

Come see Kamsa.

[Lauren Sherman]

But it's like, okay, quality. And they're trying to communicate that, like, this isn't junk. Like, this is stuff you can happy this. Obviously they've done a bunch of amazing collaborations and they're doing this big John Galliano thing, which I think is going to be really interesting. But what do you think about now that their repositioning is like, three years in? I remember Rachel Tashian did a story a couple years ago in the Journal. Like, there's all these things they have in the Post.

[Becky Malinski]

Yes, sorry.

[Lauren Sherman]

In the Post. Apologies.

[Becky Malinski]

Sorry. I'm trying to credit where credit's due.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, check out Rachel at cnn. She's no longer at the Post to their loss, but she did a good story on that there. Like when it first, like the. The Zara polish first happened. But I'm curious, like, you also shop for, like, your. You do personal styling for high net worth often or like high power clients. What do you think about this? Like, where do you think Zara's role is in the shopping landscape?

[Becky Malinski]

Mm. Oh, my God. It's such a difficult question to answer. I think one of the things I use Zara for the most is actually using it as like a styling guide for people. I think they do a really good job of putting the clothes together into complete outfits, which is something I think people struggle with. Yeah, I don't actually think the quality is all that good. So I know that you are like, the quality is good. The quality is good. I think it's very tricky if. If you stick to natural fibers, you can do better. It's good for bringing in more layers and it's good for teaching people how to wear layers. I think they do a really good job of telegraphing how to get dressed a certain lifestyle, pulling from designer brand ideas and bringing them into a digestible platform for the mass audience. So I use it a lot for that, actually. And, like, seeing how they're putting things together. I think they do such a good job in terms of the actual clothes. I think it really depends on your age. Like, I think as we age, it's much more difficult to make some of those things look really nice. I think just in terms of fabric quality, you have to go up in fabric quality as you age. I'm sorry, I'm sure people are going to get mad at me for saying that, but it is just true. If you want to present a certain level of authority, you just. You have to be in a nicer fabric. So I Use it sometimes for cotton and linen. I use Massimo Dutti more. Actually. I do use Massimo Dutti for clients, especially for, like, weekend and summer clothes.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Becky Malinski]

But what I think they're really nailing is their imagery. It's incredible.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Well, that's Fabian baron. That's Ludovine LeBlanc. That's Carl Templar. That's Leandra. Like, they're working with really interesting people.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah. They're clearly investing in it in the right way.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Okay. Moving down market to another one of these sort of luxury disruptors, Quints. This was in the in line sheet quite a bit this week because I did a story on Pharrell on Monday. I had heard there was, like, rumors going around that he was going to be the artistic director of Quints. And I was like, I don't know if Louis Vuitton would be cool with that.

[Becky Malinski]

How is that going to work?

[Lauren Sherman]

But it turns out that he made a small investment that they didn't. They haven't. Like, I'm sure they weren't thrilled that I wrote about it. Like, they. It's not. But I think the. I think basically probably what happened is that the Quince people call him sometimes and they're like, what do you think about this? You know, because he's an investor and it's like, you know, his interest is in it. But I ended up writing about, like, the business of Pharrell in the context of, like, everything he does. And then also, like, is it working at Louis Vuitton or not? Which, like, is you. I can't. Unless I saw the sales, the P. L. Like, it's debatable. Like, some people might think it's working. They'll make it work if they want it to work anyway. But then Malik kind of did a piece about Quince because it's been in the. It's always in the air. But I think the other thing is Quince was sort of the final nail in Everlane's coffin, where Everlane's idea was like, we're gonna be transparent and give you cut out the middleman and all that stuff. And Quince did the same thing, but, like, on a giant scale. And they also. Speaking of copying, they do this really interesting thing with the. With Google search, where they use the same. I wrote about this a while ago. I don't want to totally bunk it, but they go above and beyond on Google search. So, like, they make a copy of the Totem scarf jacket, but they. I want to say they use the same metadata or they use the same language to describe it so that it comes up. They like go a step beyond. Most companies go to make sure when you search for something their copy comes up and it is, it feels, it's like a unspoken rule. They like take a step too far. I'm sure what they're doing is totally kosher or whatever, but it's, it really upsets the other companies. But it's interesting like when you talk about quality and there are a lot of people who feel like Quince is really great and they buy it and to me it's like Costco online. That's how I always describe it. Like a more well presented Costco. You can buy caviar there for cheaper and I'm sure it tastes fine but like I'm just curious just what you think of it. Like do you think a company like that. So Malik's piece on on Tuesday kind of questions how far can they go? Like they obviously have gone so much further than Everlane and it's a much broader proposition. Like they're selling Vi. I don't know if they sell vitamins, but they might as well.

[Becky Malinski]

They sell sunscreen.

[Lauren Sherman]

They sell sunscreen. It's. And that's maybe why they'll succeed that wherever Lane didn't. But there are also just so many options in the market for this kind of commodified stuff. Like do you think that quints can replace something else that we, we shopped growing up or something? Like what do you think of it maybe?

[Becky Malinski]

I mean the first thing I think of is what you were talking about is the search. I mean it's so obvious as someone who spends no time on the site that they, that is search is their strategy. Like anything I type up into Google, it feels like Quince is the first thing that comes up. So that feels like it's their brand strategy and it feels like must be working because they're doing well and you hear about it a lot. I went on the site just because again, 10 minutes ago, before that Phoebe Filo email destroyed my focus. I went on to just look at it and initially I never have spent time on it because to me it holds this place in dupe culture. And I don't really like to engage in dupe culture but I understand that people need clothes. I think it feels a bit soulless and I don't understand like the way they want to be clothes for everyone. It doesn't feel like it has the same brand identity as a Costco or a Uniqlo. It sort of feels like they're Throwing stuff on there and, you know, seeing what sticks. Maybe that will work if the only goal is just to sell product and make money. But again, I don't. I don't understand what the, what the vision or the brand identity or goals are. So maybe it's working for now. I don't know if it has longevity if you don't know what the brand the company stands for.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I think when we're talking about, when you do your research and then you reinterpret something, why it feels better. I think that's like, the thing about, the thing about Everlane in the beginning was like, I was always like, I don't know if you should be talking about this transparency stuff so much, but I really liked a lot of the clothes. Like, even when they didn't fit super well. Like, they. It took a while to get the fit right. Like, they made great T shirts, they made really good jeans. Like, they made stuff that was cute. I think this stuff is just one hair too generic. And I think you're right that, like, if they don't figure out the brand part, eventually people will just move on. They'll be like, I don't need this from here. And also the quality is not good. So they think that the quality for the throws that were at the Huma wedding are good. They're not guys, they're not good. So I think once people start it. But the problem with that kind of thing is you have to figure out your brand fast. Like, Costco knows its brand. That's why people love Costco. If, if your brand, honestly, Amazon knows its brand.

[Becky Malinski]

And same with Target. Like, they know the brand.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. So, like, Uniqlo is terrible at marketing, but it knows what it is. And so we all do too. And eventually it worked. I think the challenge is when you have a lot of success fast because you have like, as Michael Priceman would say, product market fit or whatever, then you try to figure out the brand later. If you don't know what you stand for and there's not like any integrity to it. It just doesn't. There doesn't feel like there's any integrity to it. And I don't. I don't feel like I don't hate it. Like, I don't care.

[Becky Malinski]

It's fine.

[Lauren Sherman]

I just would never buy something from never.

[Becky Malinski]

It's just stuff.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. And so, so. And it, it speaks to, like, a very American way of consuming too. But yeah, I think whether or not they're going to get their sort of IPO or whatever or Big exit. It's possible, but I don't know.

[Becky Malinski]

Sure.

[Lauren Sherman]

And also, it's like, all those supply chains. Anyway, Becky, one final thing. Yeah. What did you think of Dua Lipa's Schiaparelli wedding suit?

[Becky Malinski]

Oh, I don't know. I just thought of, like, Sex in the City, the wedding suit. You know, I'm like. I don't know.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm, like, very into wedding suits.

[Becky Malinski]

Why?

[Lauren Sherman]

Because I love a skirt suit.

[Becky Malinski]

I mean. Well, yes, we know. I love a skirt suit, too.

[Lauren Sherman]

I. I didn't love it. Like, I liked it.

[Becky Malinski]

Wasn't it, like. Wasn't it in England? So it's like, very daytime church suit.

[Lauren Sherman]

Daytime church. I'm sure she's gonna have a huge wedding where she's gonna wear Chanel or something.

[Becky Malinski]

So it's not really a statement in, like, rejecting the pomp and circumstance of the gown.

[Lauren Sherman]

No. I do think that there's something happening in the culture right now. And I wrote about this yesterday. Or yeah, I guess it was yesterday. I also think because of our age, like, there's more second weddings happening around me.

[Becky Malinski]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

I don't know if I've actually been to us. I guess I've been to a second wedding. I don't know. I went to our friend Gabby Katz's first wedding, and it was a first for both of them. It was a real wedding. There were, like, maybe 200 people. I was like, wow, people still do this because it just feels like most of my friends have gotten married recently have had smaller weddings because they were older. So even if it wasn't the second wedding, it was just like, we're gonna have 75 people and call it a day. Or like, I had a friend who got married a couple weekends ago that had seven people at the wedding. But I think there's something in the air of. Yes, of course it's a city hall. Or. I don't think it was city hall, but, like, it's a small, civil ceremony in. Or was it civil? I don't know. It might have been in church. I don't. I have no idea. But it was a small.

[Becky Malinski]

It read church wedding to me.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, it did. It was a small ceremony for a tiny ceremony wedding. And I don't know. I thought it was beautiful and it was very Schiaparelli. But I think there's something about, like. I wonder if you look at the bridal market right now, if there's more suiting and two pieces and that type of thing happening.

[Becky Malinski]

I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't actually know, but I feel like you could definitely find more variety than when we were of the wedding circuit age.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I had to get mine. I got, like, a custom dress because there wasn't anything I did not.

[Becky Malinski]

But I was a marketer.

[Lauren Sherman]

Did you wear Valentino?

[Becky Malinski]

I wore Valentino from the store, but the people. But the funny part was when I went, like, they had to alter the shoulder a little, and I was like, oh, yeah, this is. I'm gonna wear this to my wedding. And the tailor was like. Like the brunch. I was like, no, the wedding.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's amazing. Becky, this was so fun.

[Becky Malinski]

It was great. Thank you for having me. I feel like I always come on when there's absolutely nothing to talk about. So I hope people like us gabbing for now.

[Lauren Sherman]

They love it. They love it. This is so fun. We'll talk soon. Much love.

[Becky Malinski]

Bye.

[Lauren Sherman]

Bye. Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbit, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. And additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.