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- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
Watching that massive housing payment leave your bank account every single month can be a painful experience. It's easily my biggest monthly expense, so like, why shouldn't there be something equivalent to airline miles? If you're not earning something back on your rent or mortgage right now, you need to check out bilt. Becoming a Bilt member means earning points on every housing payment, no matter where you live. You can then take those built points and redeem them toward your next flight, hotel, stay, or even Amazon.com per purchases. I'll use mine towards a future mortgage payment, but my favorite feature has to be Bilt Neighborhood Concierge, which you can find right inside the app. It's connected to your home and over 50,000 merchant partners, so you can literally ask it to book a fitness class, make a dinner reservation, or schedule a lift. And it seamlessly applies your membership benefits along the way. To get started, just download the BUILTA app, link any of your existing credit or debit cards to make local shopping even more rewarding, and let the concierge show you exclusive member benefits right in your neighborhood. Download the Bilt app and join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com fashion that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com fashion use our link so they know we sent you Imagine
- [01:24]
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- [02:06]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo line sheet, and today with me on the show is journalist Marc Boget. We're talking about Bernard Arnault's media blitz and what it means for LVMH. Plus the weird ballet stitch, 100 icons of French design and plenty more. Happy Tuesday everyone. Hope you're having a great week. I am laying low in Los Angeles enjoying the conveniences of the U.S. in California in particular. I am going to tell you guys about this because I think it's, it's funny and it's connected to everything we talk about here on Fashion People. But I went to the dentist yesterday in Glendale and it was really one of the most American moments of my life. I'm walking down the block after going to after the Dentist, I stopped by Starbucks to get some egg white bites, as one does. I was wearing bike shorts and my Loewe I told you T shirt which they made when Challengers came out. Because as you all know, Jonathan Anderson was the designer at Loewe and he was also the costume designer of Challengers. Anyway, I'm walking down the block thinking about how bad all the restaurants on this pedestrian strip look. Like, just why can't anything be good except for Starbucks with my two hot egg bites. And then I look up and I admire the theater that's on this block that is like a vintage theater. And they're showing The Odyssey in 70 millimeter. And I thought, I really have to go see the Odyssey. I really need to go. And then I also thought if I was still in Paris right now, I would not have any desire to go see the Odyssey. But because I'm in California, I feel this urge, I must go or I'm not a part of the world. And then suddenly this like young person screams out I love your shirt as I'm stuffing my face with these egg bites. And then I went to WeWork and a Pilates class and they are in the same building. So to me, people, this is America. The wework and the Pilates and, well, the Legree Pilates or whatever, they're all in the same place. They're five minutes away from where I went to the dentist and got my egg white bites. Unfortunately, there was no place for me to buy a ready made vegetable salad, but it's okay. Anyway, this week in Line Sheet, we've got lots of good stuff. Some French Vogue gossip, lots on the Arnaus and LVMH Shein just is filing to go public. Malik's all over that. We've got LVMH earnings, we've got Kering earnings, we have Hermes earnings, we've got Prada earnings. It's all happening. It's going to be a fun one. So check it out and enjoy this conversation with Mark Mark Boget. Welcome back to Fashion People.
- [04:50]
Marc Boget
Thanks, Lorraine, Thanks a lot.
- [04:53]
Lauren Sherman
Emergency podcast.
- [04:55]
Marc Boget
Indeed. Indeed. We needed that.
- [04:59]
Lauren Sherman
We did. So last week, Lamond, which is the biggest newspaper in France, right? Yes, By Far published a six part series on Bernard Arnault. I would say it was less on LVMH and more on Bernard Arnault specifically in which he participated. All of his children participated, his wife participated, and also all of his deputies. Michael Burke, Sidney Teledano, Pietro Bacari. I did not see, you know who wasn't quoted as Tony Belloni.
- [05:32]
Marc Boget
Oh yeah, no, he wasn't in it actually.
- [05:35]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, but Bianchi was in it. Stephane Bianchi, all of them, everybody, even
- [05:39]
Marc Boget
old people working with Bernard Arnault, like Picard, he talked a few stories. Yeah.
- [05:47]
Lauren Sherman
So the series focused on, had the six parts where the first one was sort of his. The how. The really how LVMH came together and it was less about the history of him buying that company for a dollar and more about like the 90s and how it came together. Then it went into what was next the French politics, then foreign politics, then media control, and then his contributions to the arts, but also how that helps him with taxes and then finally succession.
- [06:25]
Marc Boget
Exactly.
- [06:26]
Lauren Sherman
Can you sort of put in context what you thought of the series and of course why you think it came out now, all that stuff.
- [06:37]
Marc Boget
So there is a tradition at Le Monde to publish zu's summer series. As you know, people in France stop doing anything in July and August, almost everything. So we need, we need material to read and to enjoy summer. So every summer LeMond will be publishing big stories, big series of article about big subjects. A few years back, actually, Rafael Baker, writer, one of the two writers of that article. That series of articles started like five years ago, a series with Vanessa Schneider. So the two of them already did five years ago, a series on successions, the big succession in big French companies. The first one was obviously on the LVMH succession. So the story in a way started with that article five years ago. Bernard Arn obviously is a fascinating subject for people to read. For those two specific writers who are known in France for doing that kind of Vanity Fair article to, I mean, to make it understandable to American readers. It's not proper investigation. They don't, you know, they won't be publishing taxes, document, but it's, it's very well documented. They talk to a lot of people. They also, they put facts, but they also. You get a feeling when reading the article, I mean, there is a tone to the article, there is an atmosphere. So that's what you get in that theories. I found it very good, very informative. Was it fair? To me it was hard, but fair. I learned some things, some Things I knew, obviously it was fun to read. And the answer by Bernard Arnault, following the series that he published on Twitter was also very fun to read and to a point, understandable. So, yeah, it was a very French week with that series of articles. It was fun to read.
- [09:05]
Lauren Sherman
It was really fun to read. I think you're right about the tone. And they translated it in English, but obviously everything is on Google Translate now. I don't know if Arnaud's response, they ever ended up translating it properly, but the Google Translate read beautifully as well.
- [09:21]
Marc Boget
Yeah, because it was so well written. I don't think, to be honest, that Bernard Arnaud himself wrote it. I think they may have hired an author. I mean, a writer.
- [09:32]
Lauren Sherman
It was very good.
- [09:33]
Marc Boget
A novelist. It was fun. It was very well awarded. Chicken tongue. Very good.
- [09:42]
Lauren Sherman
He really like toed the line where he made a comment that my favorite line was. And also he. This morning, this. We're recording this very early. My time on Monday morning. Afternoon. Your time on Monday morning. Monday afternoon. He joined X to thank the community for their response. I mean, the whole. I hope they're having fun with it. I talked to someone. Yes. Yesterday on the board and they were like, oh, we're all having a good laugh about it. I mean, look, I think that they. The thing, the Nouvelle obes. Le Nouvelle Obvs.
- [10:19]
Marc Boget
Okay. Nouvelle Ops Nouvelopes.
- [10:21]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, that piece that came out a couple of months ago on Succession. I thought it was really well done and they didn't have. They didn't have direct access. The thing I will say is, like, I fact checked it with people who were closely involved and there was stuff that they. It's not. Look, I get stuff wrong. Everybody gets stuff wrong. It's okay. But I thought that the Nouvelle Obs piece was. The tone was. I got why they were. It was very family drama about Antoine blocking his mother and all that stuff like that, as far as I know is true. And I've confirmed that with a couple people. But mother in law, sorry. But like, I don't know, I was kind of like, what's the point of this? It just. Whereas this, the mom piece, I felt like, okay, this feels like the. Of all the things that are written about the Arnaus and lvmh, this is the first thing where I don't want to say I was jealous, but I was like, this is what I want to do. Like, this isn't. And I thought, I think you're right about the tone. They just got like. They got to the. The point There were some things that were a little bit off. Like I make a joke in line sheet about. They said Antoine didn't wear a blue suit because he's like a cool guy. I think he didn't wear a blue suit because he doesn't want to be the CEO of lvmh. And he's like, I'm not going to wear a blue suit. Antoine is not cool. And then there were a couple other things to me. The piece, the part that I found and then the other point that I made in my piece that I think maybe they said this, maybe they said showed this and didn't just come out and say it. But I think the thing that I have found in the last six months being there and I've been covering this company for 20 years and know a lot of these people, I have never lived. I don't speak French, which everybody likes to remind me. Soon, soon someday I could recognize certain words in certain phrases in the. In the original. You're improving. Yeah, yeah. But the thing that I think and the reason he responded and the reason that he. That they. I'm glad they participated. Maybe they regret it. I doubt it. I think it was important. They never participate. A lot of times when I reach out to them, they just don't respond. And like, it's hard that you have a 70 company company and you can't single thing that's happening at every single company. And when I'm going to Jean Charles, who's quoted in the piece, I'm sure he was thrilled about that. It is what it is. It's a difficult company to communicate on. But what I think that they didn't come out and say, that's very important to know is he very much cares what people think about him. He cares what the French people think. He thinks he has done a lot for the French economy. He's brought a lot of jobs to France. And he says this at the end of the. Of his response, but like he doesn't like that he's the target of these things. It does bother him. So I. I wonder if this is a turning point in the way LVMH communicates with journalists and whether this suggests
- [13:32]
Marc Boget
that he won't be talking anytime soon to any journalist. That he suggests that he would have been better treated than that if he hadn't spoken to Le Monde. There is a funny line about the Werther Meer family. And he says that a few months, a few years back, the same kind of article was just one article. It was probably in A succession series back a few years ago about the Wertheimer family owning Chanel. The words used to describe them were a lot more positive. And Bernard Arnault, in his answers mentioned that the only difference between them, the Arnault family and the Chamel family, in a way, is the fact that they. Bernard Arnault and his family talked to Le Monde journalists. Why the Werther merse didn't. You could feel. He felt he was a bit. He was probably hoping in some sort of, you know, croning in some sort of six articles on me, there might be a positive thing. In the end, he was probably a bit disappointing, so you could feel the disappointment. But his answer was there were a few things that was very well written. He didn't challenge any factual information,
- [15:01]
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other
- [15:02]
Lauren Sherman
than the fact that he says they don't take the Hermes ties, they just offer an alternative. He said that is false.
- [15:10]
Marc Boget
It was very precise on the Hermes. Indeed. You could also feel, reading that answer, the way he considers press. Press doesn't make as much money as luxury industry. Press is struggling. Press needs him. So in a way, you could feel that. I mean, I feel like the sort of. That he expressed in his answer, the. The funny line, the idea that you will also keep doing the crosswords in Le Monde, kind of. I mean, I am superior to that. Anyways. You can say whatever you want about me. I'm rich, you're struggling in a way. It's fine in the end.
- [16:00]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I mean, two points. Well, I'll go back to the Wertheimers, because I think he's wrong and there are many reasons why. And there's a reason the Wertheimers cannot speak and the reason he. He has to. But. But I think on the press part, look like I've writt this a lot where Elvis. I think the kids. Once Arnaud is out of the picture, which will never happen, obviously, because he's immortal. But 10 years from now, or whatever, when someone else is running that company, whether it's a group of them running it or whatever, or it's one of them personally, I think. And that's the other thing they didn't talk about in it. I don't think it's going to be one person running that business. I think it's going to be a group, and I don't think they're going to break it up, but it's. The business will look very different. So. But the point that he made about media, I think that's true. Like media is. Doesn't have A business model, it's consolidated. There are very few media brands that are making money, and they do need him. And that is one of the reasons why they have so much control, because the. They spend way less than they used to on, especially somewhere like the US but the thing that I've always thought is it will get to a point where the. Whatever media is left doesn't actually rely on LVMH anymore, because LVMH doesn't give them that much anyway. And so they will be able to be even more independent. And what you have seen in the last two years or three years or four years, a lot more independent publications writing about them. And I think that's part of the reason they say that in the Le Mans piece. I think that's part of the reason they did this, because so, including me, there are a lot of media outlets more in Europe, but there are some here, too, not just me, who are writing about LVMH pretty freely. And, look, there's still politics involved, but I get to say a lot, because my business is not based on LVMH advertising with line sheet. So it is changing. So I think right now, yes, he is correct. Like, he does have control, and everybody's gonna toe the line. But on the other hand, that's not gonna be forever. And I think the thing that I've said to people on the board close to the family, I'm like, this is not gonna end. It's just gonna get bigger. And that comes back to the Wertheimers, which I've written a lot about. Their. What is their succession? There really isn't. I mean, I think the difference is their executives. Are they really run the company? It's not them. I mean, they're very involved, but it is their executives. And Bruno Pavlovski, he will retire someday. I mean, he's only in his mid-60s, but he will retire. He's been there forever. Yeah, they will take many years to find his replacement if they don't give it to Joyce Green, who is, you know, in line to succeed him in some ways, like. And there is Lena. And of course, there are problems at that company that I have written about, but they are. The Wertheimers have never been the ones, you know, approving the. The buys for the stores or whatever. Like, that's not like that. And so I think the other thing is they're completely private company. And, yes, LVMH controls the Arnaud, pretty much control lvmh. It's still public, and they don't I believe they do not. Do they have over 50%? I don't think so. They have no. So they, maybe they will someday, but right now they don't. And they have shareholders also. It's a much bigger business with many, many, many different players and companies and five children. And so I just think like this idea that you can't, you can't speak, that you can just like go, you're not the row. Like, like you have obligations to people. And so I think it's interesting that they, I, I thought that the succession piece was the weakest part. And I think it's interesting they don't, they don't understand why everyone cares so much. And it's like, but guys, yes, everyone cares. It's fine. Like, just, I don't know. I mean, I, I loved his, his response. I was glad he responded. I didn't think he seemed too petty or too crazy. He didn't seem crazy. Seemed smart. And I thought it was funny and like it was a good part of the narrative. But I thought that the, the series overall, even though in the end I think the thing it didn't get to is like, this business is consolidated and the luxury goods, like that business is not going to grow the way it has for the last 15 years. It may even start to decline. You look at a Harvard Business Review consolidation chart and like, guys, it's over. That part of the time is over. Like, are you always going to get a high margin on a, on a Dior bag? Sure. But like, the way that they operated for the last 15 years is not the way they, they need to operate for the next 15. And I think that's what is interesting to me. Maybe that's not what like the Le Mans journalists are thinking. Thinking about. They didn't seem as they seemed less business reporter y or business analysts.
- [21:43]
Marc Boget
They are not your typical business reporters. Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the succession part, they raised the possibility of having someone coming from the outside.
- [22:01]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [22:02]
Marc Boget
I thought the end, something that you could say about the succession article was the end, was the end of the article. The conclusion of it was very tough. So basically the line was the succession is messy and Bernard wants it to be messy to the point where that could break the family. That was the last few words of the series. So that's tough. I think that last sentence was difficult to take for Bernard, who obviously both cares about the family and the succession. What I found, I mean, it was on the succession. Think the article was a good summary of where the people are standing who is up, who is going down? It's well done. I mean, you could see the movement and the momentum of a few names. Frederic being on the down. Alexander also onto. I don't know if he wants it, but maybe up. More reassuring presents. Delphine up. Also. The ice skating video thing is fun. You saw that. So Jean put on the WhatsApp of the brothers and sisters a video of an ice skating race. So you would have, like, ice skater, you know, going around the ice skates in a race. So there would be five of them. So they would race. The four in front would race and the last one would be a bit far away from the four first ones. But they would all fell together. The first four ones fall down on the ice, so. So the last one become the only contenders and become the winner of the race. So he put that on the group saying, basically, I might be the youngest, I might be the least favorite to take the job, but I might win in the end. I mean, it's.
- [24:23]
Lauren Sherman
He's very well liked too. I think generally people like to talk to him.
- [24:29]
Marc Boget
He takes care of the watches at Louis Vuitton nowadays.
- [24:33]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Yes. And I think this is the thing to remember. The ones that are under 35 are under 35. They are still children in many ways. I want to talk about Delphine a bit. I thought the thing. The most affecting thing, I thought it was interesting about Frederick hiring his own comms person.
- [24:52]
Marc Boget
Yeah. Being very close to his mother.
- [24:56]
Lauren Sherman
Very close to his mother. I think the one thing I will say about the younger kids is I. To me, I always imagined a world where they would kind of all run it together. Like, I don't know if Delphine has any desire to run it or. Or. Or, you know, she really needs to prove with Dior that she can make this business work. And I think she was left with a mess there and is trying. Has been trying to clean it up. And I think she gets a lot of criticism from people within the business and also outside. And I think it's a little bit. I don't wanna say that undeserved because look like she took the job. She's putting herself out there. But this is a hard job and it's a hard situation. And she is sort of facing the issue that they're all facing, which is that this industry was pumped up too much and now is sort of. It's not in decline yet, but is like. Is not gonna be as easy as it was when Maria Grazia was designing or Kim Jones. And so she's Trying to make Dior stronger long term with Jonathan. And I think she gets a lot of. A lot of flack for it. But there was a anecdote that was really affecting, that was like, why did they tell them this? These journalists are really good. But it was about when. When Alexandre was a child, when he. When is it Helena? Is that how you would say it? Or Helen. Helen. Helen.
- [26:25]
Marc Boget
When Helen was the bedroom thing.
- [26:27]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. When she was still pregnant with Alexand. And Delphine was like, I'm gonna make up a bedroom for him or I'm gonna come be with him. And Helen was like, I'm not. No. And Levi. I was starting crying.
- [26:42]
Marc Boget
I felt. So, yeah, I think, yeah. Basically, Bernhard told Delphine that obviously, even though he was now living with Helene Mercier, who isn't the mother of Delphine, Delphine could come anytime at their house. Bernard and Delphine and Antoine were living with their mother. But Bernard told them, obviously, you can come to my house anytime you want. So in the article we learned that Delphine came up one day and too much to the disappointment, to the surprise of Helene Mercier, who told her that she had to announce herself before coming, which is a thing. Also Delphine realized that her childhood. Childhood child bedroom. Sorry, child bedroom. Had been cleaned of her stuff because they were moving in the younger brother in law in her bedroom. And the article says that she has never really forgotten about it.
- [27:55]
Lauren Sherman
I mean, I'm never going to forget about it. It broke my heart. It broke my heart. I'd have my cold, cold heart.
- [28:07]
Marc Boget
It was quite moving. And I thought something that. I even wondered if Helene Mercy had told the reporters what she told what is written about Xavier Nielsen's husband. So she has some very tough words.
- [28:25]
Lauren Sherman
She's quoted as calling him the devil.
- [28:28]
Marc Boget
Yes.
- [28:28]
Lauren Sherman
Or right. Or like devilish or something.
- [28:31]
Marc Boget
Yeah. She's quoted as saying that he only talks about is Bill Biden's that he haven't integrated in the family. That is evil. And it's. I mean, it's a quote. And she seems to say it to the reporters. I mean, that's. How do you recover from that?
- [28:54]
Lauren Sherman
Can we talk about him for a minute? This is the thing about this situation is like I've said this to people involved in this. Like, I don't actually want to know all this stuff about your family. Like, I have enough shit with my family. Like I don't need. I don't need to be worrying about feeling bad that I'm writing about this.
- [29:16]
Marc Boget
You talk about your violence when having Gina Loren.
- [29:20]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Yeah, it's just. But like, let's talk about this. This Neil. Neil. Yeah, for a minute.
- [29:30]
Marc Boget
Yeah, go on, Lauren.
- [29:31]
Lauren Sherman
Sorry. No, you tell you. Because I'll give you my, my feedback on him, but tell let's. Because I, I'm interested in him and, and he obviously is never going to have any control within lvmh, but he has a lot. He is a billionaire and has a lot of real real estate power, media power. He's left wing. But whatever, whatever that means when you're a billionaire and he is not the software power. And his like alliance with Delphine obviously, of course is something. So tell us more about that.
- [30:04]
Marc Boget
He's a bigger than life character in the French business. He was involved early in his career in. We had a friends in a thing called Minitel, which was like an early World Wide Web, the early Internet, only for France. You would have a specific computer and you could connect to kind of website, but before the Internet. So it was a place where people would go and chat to girls, prostitutes.
- [30:42]
Lauren Sherman
So it was like AOL chat. What was that chat called?
- [30:46]
Marc Boget
Yeah, but yeah, aol. Pretty. Did you have Teletext in the us?
- [30:52]
Lauren Sherman
I mean, I didn't.
- [30:55]
Marc Boget
On the TV you would have the news. So Minitel was a bit like that. So Xavier Niel spent a month in jail, accused of setting up pink mini tail, which was prostitute mini tail. He was arrested, he spent a month in jail and he was finally released. And the accusation was he wasn't judged guilty.
- [31:24]
Lauren Sherman
And he must have been really young. Just interrupt for one second. He must have been very young because he's only 58.
- [31:30]
Marc Boget
Yeah, he's not old. No, no, it was maybe 30 or even less than that. So he's a nerd, He's a geek. He works with computers. He started like that and he got very famous in France because he created something called Free F R E E Libre. It was a telephone company, a mobile company that broke the prices. So basically you would have your traditional phone company, very expensive. You couldn't escape from them. They would all agree on some prices that were very high. It was illegal. And Xavier Nier arrived and said, I'm gonna allow people to use their mobile phone for €5amonth, basically. And he broke the market. It was a rebel, revolutionary. He was provocative, he was vulgar, he was in your face. So that's how he became huge in France, how he made a lot of money. He became a billionaire in France. A lot of people followed what he did and he revolutionized the way we communicate. We use Our phone in France. So that's how he made his money.
- [32:49]
Lauren Sherman
I have a free phone.
- [32:51]
Marc Boget
You do? He became a billionaire with your money, Lorraine.
- [32:57]
Lauren Sherman
I have a French phone number with a free. That number's not on the Internet. I plan to keep that one private.
- [33:07]
Marc Boget
His company is huge. It's known for being innovative. So Xavier Niel is a funny guy. He says that he spent his days answering emails. We did an interview a few years back with the magazine I ran at the time called Society and it was fascinating. It's so quick, so smart, so unconventional in his way of thinking. So he says he answers like 3,000 emails a day. It's his job to say yes, no by email. So a few. The funny thing that you talked about in your you news later, Lorraine, was that two years back he published a book and when publishing the book, at the same time he also. He went on stage at a comedy show about himself, his life. How do you become a billionaire? How do you break the system? That show was cult because it wasn't shown on tv. But he has got some fans and those fans were all talking about the show. Some of them went on see it live but nobody outside of the theater that they had seen it. And it was part of the legend of Xavier, the different Baillionaire, the rebel Baillionaire. We finally saw the show, I think on Friday and Thursday was broadcast in Camelpoluce. Before the broadcasting, there were a lot of teasing on the social media so you could see Xavier Niel pretending to be a teenager to be a geek making fun out of himself. The teasers were good. They were actually pretty different from the show itself that I managed to watch. I said thank you for watching. Yeah. I say manage because it wasn't as good as the teasers. It was long. I mean, it's an exercise. You go on stage and you stand up, you do a stand up comedy. I mean, it's not easy. I wouldn't do it.
- [35:26]
Lauren Sherman
No.
- [35:27]
Marc Boget
I wouldn't be able to. It would be better. So he told of his life and it was not good.
- [35:32]
Lauren Sherman
Here's my question. He did this as a joke, right? Like he, he's making fun of himself by doing it.
- [35:40]
Marc Boget
Yes. Yes.
- [35:41]
Lauren Sherman
Okay. I mean, I think he also took it a little more seriously than maybe he wants to admit. I don't know. I like, he's like, it's a joke, but is it a joke?
- [35:50]
Marc Boget
But I mean he, you know that there is, there are a few things and everybody can feel it. You can say stuff about yourself, I mean, but you can Say I'm too fat, you can say, I'm too old, you can say. But if someone else says about you, you don't like it at all. And I think with the show. And David will obviously say that it was only a joke, that it was a bit ridiculous to do it, but he had fun. But when someone else says it, he's obviously, his ego is big and he doesn't like it. So for the record, very few people watch it. I think it was 4, 10,000 people on TV that night on Camel Plus. Yeah, it's. It's.
- [36:36]
Lauren Sherman
And that's not a lot in.
- [36:39]
Marc Boget
Even in France. I mean, we're a smaller country than the U.S. yeah.
- [36:42]
Lauren Sherman
But I feel like people actually watch TV there. Like. Like the TV show you're on, like, a lot of people watch it. Not that many people watch.
- [36:51]
Marc Boget
Millions. Yeah.
- [36:52]
Lauren Sherman
Two million people. Mark is on a. You're on a weekly TV show, right? That's.
- [36:57]
Marc Boget
It's a. It's a daily. But I'm. I'm weekly. It's called.
- [37:01]
Lauren Sherman
And. But like, there's no show like that in America.
- [37:06]
Marc Boget
No, that.
- [37:07]
Lauren Sherman
There. There's pro. Like, people. How many people? We can ask Dylan Byers, our media reporter. It's like CBS or CNN or whatever. If I'm on CBS News, I get, like, one message being like, I saw you on cbs, which is like a major.
- [37:23]
Marc Boget
I get more when I do your podcast.
- [37:28]
Lauren Sherman
Well, that's like a very concentrated group of people who are. Who are. Are like the. It's like going to Dreaming Man. I can't go there.
- [37:37]
Marc Boget
Okay, I see Dreaming Man.
- [37:39]
Lauren Sherman
I can't go there. Because people are like, are you larger? I'm like, yes, I. This is extremely. It's like the only place in the
- [37:46]
Marc Boget
world too famous for Dreaming Man.
- [37:49]
Lauren Sherman
Famous for Dreaming Man. And that's it. Like, it's a very concentrated group of
- [37:53]
Marc Boget
people in Dreaming Men. We are the people being in Japan being in Dreaming Men. So, yeah, Xavier Niel is a funny character. I mean, I like the second degree, the auto derision and the fact that he laughs about himself. But, I mean, for a long time, what I kept hearing was that the fact that Delphine Arnault was married to Xavier Niel was a weakness in the possibility of her becoming the boss of lvmh because Bernard Hanaud wouldn't take the risk of the group ending up in Xavier Niel's end. In the end of the story. Technically, I don't think there is any possibility that group goes from Delphine to Xavier Niel. So it was more probably fantasy. And in the article in Le Monde, what they explained is that the connection that Xavier Niel has with the tech world in particular makes even advantage to Delphine Arnault, because Xavier Niel obviously has connections to the tech and to that world. Even though there was a funny tweet by Elon Musk the other day when Xavier Niel mentioned him in one of his teaser for his show Xavier x Elon Musk and said, who is that guy?
- [39:17]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, it was so good. I was like, is this a joke? Because they must have met somebody.
- [39:22]
Marc Boget
Yes, I wonder whether. Whether it was a joke. But Xavier Neil answered with another joke, like showing a fake email that he had done sent to Elaine Mercer. It was a fun week in France. The past. Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word.
- [39:48]
Lauren Sherman
My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely suv, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. Hey, it's Jen Hatmaker. Here's what I've learned in midlife. Joy isn't the reward you earn after all the work is done. Joy is the work. That's what this new series on for the Love is all about. The sacred yes. It's choosing delight, rest and pleasure on purpose. Because saying yes to yourself, that's the thing that finally lets you. You fill your table with everybody else. Come find your sacred yes with me. Follow and listen to for the Love wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Couple more points on this and then we can move on to. To a few other fun topics on Delphine and the her success. Look, I don't, I. I don't know. I've interviewed her a couple times. I would say out of all of them, I know, I know of her personality and how she interacts with people. Look, I guess maybe more than any of them because she has the biggest job, but I would say, like from a. She's. I don't know, she's different. She's a woman. And there's many reasons, like she's just a different character from the other four. I personally don't know. She wants to be the CEO of lvmh. I don't think she thinks like that. I think she thinks she wants to succeed and she wants to do a good job. And she's extremely intense. Like the. I would say probably, maybe Frederic's the other one that's as intense, like the most intense. Like I've been in meetings with people where she's calling them like that work technically reporter. She's calling them, Calling, calling, calling, calling. She is on it and she wants to do well and she's, you know, once she. I don't know if she's doing that to run that company. I don't think she thinks like that. Because I don't think that women generally are trained or conditioned. Even if you're conditioned to succeed and perform, you are not conditioned to think that you should lead a company. Like, I just don't think. And I'm not saying that about Bernard Arnault or how she was particularly raised. I'm talking about just like culturally the business world. Yes. Like, I just don't think, I think she has been conditioned to be excellent and. Cause I think about it like in my own life. Like I. The way I think. I'm never thinking like I want to control a bunch of stuff or manage a bunch of people. I'm like, I want to do a really good job this week or this year. And I think it's a different.
- [42:42]
Marc Boget
Don't you think that it might be a biggest strength in that race the fact that she basically. If she succeeds at Dior, if Jonathan Henderson works, if it works out, can it be someone else? I think it's difficult not to give it to her.
- [43:03]
Lauren Sherman
I just, I don't think they have even begun to think about who they are going to give it to. This is a thing how it's gonna work, how it's gonna work. So this is the part of it that I think is. And why I think those, the older kids and the younger kids do need to start getting along more. Because like this is a huge company that is run by this one savant. Like as soon as they understand that like one of them controlling all of it doesn't really make sense. I think that they will be able to. And, and that's why the like the personal stuff. Look, families annoy each other and don't get along as long as they can. They need to just like be able to. And especially because it's not like any of them are fuck ups. Like this is the other part of it. Like none of them have done anything remotely like there was one of them was dating someone that will not be named. Because I was like, anytime I got any pushback from that world of you are too harsh on us. I'm like, I never mentioned that the, the personal life stuff like, but. But the point being, none of them have screwed up, and they probably won't. They're all a bunch of dorks that, like, just want to do a good job, and so it seems unnecessary. So much drama. But, yeah, I mean, you have a good point. I just don't know. Does she want that for her life? And I think. And that's where the Neil piece of it comes in, which I think the interesting thing to me, I see him, the. I first learned. I obviously knew they were married, but I first learned about him probably seven or eight years ago with that. That startup hub he opened.
- [44:54]
Marc Boget
Okay, okay.
- [44:55]
Lauren Sherman
What is it called?
- [44:58]
Marc Boget
I don't know the name.
- [44:59]
Lauren Sherman
I want to say. It's in the 13th. I've been there many times.
- [45:03]
Marc Boget
Okay, well, it's a pub, a bar.
- [45:07]
Lauren Sherman
No, it's a hub. Like, it's like a place for a bunch of startups to work.
- [45:12]
Marc Boget
Oh, you mean Station F. Station F, yes.
- [45:16]
Lauren Sherman
Stashion F. Don't. Don't. Don't judge me. I've been there many times. But he's involved in that, right?
- [45:23]
Marc Boget
Yeah, he does. He's. Yeah.
- [45:26]
Lauren Sherman
So to me, he's like a modern entrepreneur, CEO. And Arnaud kind of represents, like, the. The old guard, and they're what, 20 years apart almost. So, like, it makes sense. But it's interesting that she. She. I also find it interesting when people marry other powerful people. So it's like a. It's. It's not about. She didn't marry a beta who's gonna watch the kids or whatever. She married another powerful person, and they are.
- [45:58]
Marc Boget
Would you go as far as saying there is strategy behind it?
- [46:02]
Lauren Sherman
No, I. I'm sure that part. I mean, we don't know, but, like, maybe not technically, but, like, I don't know if it's a strategy for her to get more power. I think it's a strategy to enjoy your life more with someone who understands you, and you can. I have no idea. I don't know anything about their relationship.
- [46:22]
Marc Boget
I think it's cool.
- [46:24]
Lauren Sherman
But
- [46:26]
Marc Boget
in Bernard Renaissance, he called Xavier Niel my gendre, which in French is son in law, the husband of your daughter. But he put, you know. How do you say it in English? Like quotes on genre, which is a funny thing. Interesting, because he's genre. I mean, you don't need quotes to.
- [46:57]
Lauren Sherman
I have to add that to my piece. I didn't notice that. I just saw son in law. I did think it was funny that he brought up that Neil owns both or, like, part owns both of the papers that have done these investigations. Whereas someone close to Neil reached out to me and said that he does not technically own those things because they're part of a non profit that he owns.
- [47:22]
Marc Boget
Okay.
- [47:23]
Lauren Sherman
Which I was like, okay, thank you for clarifying this person. It was so helpful to me. But obviously Arnaud considers him to be a part owner in them, which I thought was a funny. Yeah. I mean, I think the question for me, for you, because there are differences in culture and humans are humans. And when you come down to it, it's like human nature doesn't really change. But do you think that Arnault is like enjoying this a little bit, or do you think he's really upset? That's the part I can't tell because I think it's fun and I think it's all good and whatever. But do you think he's actually really upset about it? That's the part I can't tell.
- [48:10]
Marc Boget
Having read a lot of things, obviously the Le Mans theory, but also books, articles, etc. I think Bernard Arno only opinion, only political opinion, only feeling, only value is what will make me richer. I think money is in his only political opinion. He talked to far right people, he talks to left wing presidents. He buy art when it can bring him money. Money is the only way of reading Bernardo. So I think if he feels that succession talk is arming the business, if it creates a kind of insecurity in the company, if he gets asked a lot during the annual conferences where they announce a results to the shareholders, that it hurts the business, he won't like it. If it doesn't, then I don't think he dislike it very much. But I think money is the only way you can. You should read Bernard Arno. And it's. It's not a judgment, it's. Why not? We need people obsessed with money in a country, in an economy. But I really think. I mean, he. His relation to art, his relation to the business, the fact that there is an important point in the articles, Bernard Arnault is very traditional in his values. He believes in gods, he goes to church more and more since getting closer to Vincent Boulaut. So he's a traditionalist. But. And it's explained in details and it's illustrated by a specific story, but he hires designers who are, some of them homosexuals, who live a lifestyle that he may not be totally aligned with, that he may not condemn caution in a way, but they bring him money. So it's all fine. There is a. I tell that because there is a Specific story told by Picard about Christian Georges lifestyle back in the days. Bernard Arnold seems shocked at hearing what he hears about the private life of Christian Dior. But he brings money in. It's all fine as long as the money is a thing.
- [50:54]
Lauren Sherman
To me, the money is the thing. Yes, you're right, it's. And what in business journalism they always say follow the money. And that's maybe why he's the most interesting character. And it is interesting thinking compared to the Pinault family. And not just Francois Henri the dad too. Like there you look at the art at the Bourse and you look at the art at Fondassier and Louis Vuitton. I like a lot of those shows at. But you just can tell the whole thing about the family just looking at where they, where they play.
- [51:27]
Marc Boget
It's a great point. One is commercial, the other is art for die hard fans.
- [51:34]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. And look, does that mean anything about the future of either of those companies? I think caring, it means that maybe caring doesn't exist the way it exists right now someday. Because it doesn't make sense culturally. Because I don't think Pinot is going to be like we need to keep this because I'll get rich another way. Whereas I think because LVMH is so commercial, that is where. Because there are going to be challenges commercially with goods when you make things. They've already experienced it with liquor. Unfortunately it's too early in the day to the first half. Results are not going to come out till 6pm and that's two more another hour. So we won't see them. But I think like the wine and spirits is doing a bit better, I've heard. But like look, that, that used to be a huge part of the LVMH business and of course it's really declined in the last 10 years. So I think what he didn't bet on when he bet, oh, I'm going to take the private equity model but use the sort of French sensibility of preservation and make these companies huge. And it was such a good formula. I don't know if he bet on the fact that by making money off of culture, when culture changes, you also have to change. And so I think that's the thing that they are grappling with right now.
- [53:07]
Marc Boget
It's interesting. Difficult to know where we'll be in 20 years, but interesting.
- [53:13]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah, we'll see. So I wanted to chat about a couple more things, like speaking of another billionaire private equity person, how much have you been following the saga of Bally since Regent. This like Beverly Hills based private equity firm bought it?
- [53:30]
Marc Boget
Yeah, I mean, I mean you mentioned it to me a few days ago and so I looked. I mean, I had followed them, I mean, other menswear aficionados. As a menswear nerd. I worked a little leaflet for Bally with IL Studio, I mean, 15 years back. So I know the brand quite well from that experience. I loved the idea of having a brand that would make his shoes in Swiss Switzerland. It was synonymous with quality. So there would be that line of menswear shoes. Very sleek, very pure, very non English, less tacky than the Italian made shoes. So I know the brand. We learned a few months back that they were closing the factories in Switzerland making the shoes. I also like the way Simone Belotti, along with Charlotte Collet, we mention her every time she's gonna.
- [54:36]
Lauren Sherman
Our girl.
- [54:39]
Marc Boget
Hi, Charlotte. I know she listens.
- [54:42]
Lauren Sherman
I do. Does she listen to it?
- [54:43]
Marc Boget
Yeah, she does, she does.
- [54:44]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, that's very funny to me. Sorry. Charlotte, Charlotte should come on sometime.
- [54:50]
Marc Boget
You should invite.
- [54:51]
Lauren Sherman
Can you imagine? She just be like, no, no, no, I hate that. No, I don't like it. No.
- [54:58]
Marc Boget
So, I mean, don't do that, don't do that. I love what they did for a couple of seasons. I think it was like maybe five years ago. So you could see the efforts to try and make it live again, to try and get the brand exciting. But it didn't work, obviously. So, yeah, you talked about.
- [55:24]
Lauren Sherman
But then Simone got a new job and also it went to shit because this guy is. He is like an old school, like 1980s Private Equity Guy. But you keep going, we'll. We'll get into it.
- [55:36]
Marc Boget
Yeah. So. So he. The brand was brought. When was it? A few years, A few years back.
- [55:43]
Lauren Sherman
It was bought into. It used to be owned by JAB holdings, which was a luxury sector of a German private equity firm that's owned by the. I believe they're. The. What's their last name is similar to his actually. It's a German job Holdings. It was like it was their attempt to. Oh, it's headquartered in Luxembourg. It's a German conglomerate. But there was like they had a lug and they, they own a, like a lot, like a lot of food and consumer packaged goods, but it's owned by a billionaire. I believe they're. It's the Ryman family. It's like a German. Yeah, Ryman. I mean I've been writing about these people for a long time, but they used to own like Jimmy Choo and they own Bali and they tried to do a luxury thing, but then they decided we're just gonna do food. They own like Pete's Coffee and Tea. They do own a steak and Cody, apparently, according to Wikipedia. I don't know if that's still true, but they own like, you know, those pods that you make coffee. Okay, I see they own like a lot of the Keurig, which is a big one, but they owned it for a long time.
- [56:56]
Marc Boget
Okay.
- [56:57]
Lauren Sherman
And that's when. When they hired that guy, what's his name, who does that brand? Rude with an H. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [57:08]
Marc Boget
I don't know. I don't remember the family name.
- [57:12]
Lauren Sherman
He. Oh, Ruigi. Ruigi, who is like, yeah, he's a very funny character. I interviewed him at the Chateau Marmont when he first started there, because he changed the logo and he's. And he was. He told me the story of how he got started in fashion, which was that he would buy vintage stuff and get a tag from a designer and resell it. He bragged to me about this. It was amazing. I was like, you know, good for you, and resell it on ebay. And that's how he got into fashion. I actually, like, personality wise, that guy was great. The collections he did at ballet were completely just the worst thing ever. It was so bad. And at some point they hired Simone to work under him. And I think because Simone worked at Gucci for Alessandro and when Alessandro left, they all needed to leave and so he just took this job and he worked under this Ricci guy. And then, then they. And this job still owned it. And then Ruigi got fired because he was like taking a private jet on Bali. Money. Yeah. I don't remember now. I don't want to get. I don't. Allegedly. I don't know.
- [58:21]
Marc Boget
Guys, who has never taken a jet for his private company.
- [58:27]
Lauren Sherman
I really need to. I really want to fly private once. I still haven't done it. I've been offered some rides, but I have not been able to participate. But. And then Simone was amazing. And he and Charlotte and like, it was so great. And everybody was like, oh, my God, this is magical.
- [58:45]
Marc Boget
But then I think they were the brand. And maybe the first collection was the one that really brought back the boat shoes. Desire.
- [58:55]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, yes. 100%.
- [58:57]
Marc Boget
The whole reason it's them that it became so big after you saw Mew Mew. All of them, obviously, I think it went back with them totally.
- [59:07]
Lauren Sherman
It was. It was 100% that boat shoe that did it. So then that's when this character in, In Beverly Hills, Regent Buys, decides to buy it. I think Jab had been trying to sell it for years and I think they saw the sort of excitement around the brand. Here's the thing about this Regent. I've dealt with him many times. I've emailed this guy a million times. He never responds to me. Maybe he will now because now he's in the public eye in a different, different way. But he. They bought Intermix which was like they sold like contemporary price point clothes. It was like a, a very cute little boutique chain in America that was weirdly owned by Gap Inc. That should have never owned it. They bought that they own Club Monaco. They bought that from Ralph Lauren. It's a very weird company because. Have you ever seen the movie Pretty Woman?
- [60:00]
Marc Boget
Of course.
- [60:02]
Lauren Sherman
So this is how I learned about private equity as a six year old inappropriately watching Pretty Woman. But in Pretty Woman, Richard Gere runs a private equity firm and he says I buy companies and then I break them off and sell them for parts. And this is this guy, I forget his name. Is it Regent? Michael Reinstein.
- [60:27]
Marc Boget
Okay.
- [60:28]
Lauren Sherman
It's interesting. Ryman Reinstein. So he, Michael A. Reinstein. So he like he buys these. It's not. There are so many private equity firms now that are like they want to build up these businesses and sell them for more money. Like if you're alcadderton, you buy something for 40. You buy something that makes $40 million in a year. A year. You want to get it to 500 million a year in sales so you can. Per this week Reformation is going to ipo. Premier bought it for a certain amount. They're going to IPO it at a billion. They're probably, they're going to make tons of money. Like this guy doesn't work like that. He basically sucks these things dry and just lets them limp along. And I, I don't understand. So like Intermix I think doesn't exist at all. But for years it was still like you could buy stuff on the website. Club Monaco is still exists. But it's like feels half of what it was.
- [61:25]
Marc Boget
What is the point to him?
- [61:27]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, this is the question that I've been wanting to ask him for years. And I knew when he bought it I was like, this is never like this is bad. Like there's no. The project with Simone always felt like it was too good to be true. It was like magical. We got sweet. No, it never like there was no way it was going to. He was always going to get a Different job. Like there was no way that that would last. But I was like, why do you do this? They started immediately started closing stores and they closed like the meatpacking store. And then they would open them in weird places. And it was, it was like everything that was working they would go against. And I remember even thinking, like, are they going to even let him do a show? And they did. He did shows up until the end and it seemed like they, like they gave him the same. I don't know if they give him the same budget for the last shows, but like I remember the last show and he didn't do a backstage interview. And it was like, this is the end of it or whatever. But the point being that like right now someone messaged me and said, oh, there's nothing on the site, it's all on sale. And I looked and there is some product that's new. So he's still producing stuff. Obviously not in Switzerland. It's like this very classic, more classic, but bad. But I guess the question for you is because I remember talking to Ruigi about it and now when we think of Bally, like no one, everybody just thinks of Simone and the Boshu and like what. And the bells on the bags and all that stuff. But like that was such a short lived period. And that brand, I remember talking to Ruigi about it and he was like, my dad wore them and it was like a businessman shoe brand, right?
- [63:19]
Marc Boget
Like, yeah, it was.
- [63:20]
Lauren Sherman
Can we talk a little, little bit about the heritage of it? Just for like 10 minutes. You know, a lot about.
- [63:25]
Marc Boget
It was a very classical shoe brand. I do remember from, from writing for them at Some point, like 15 years ago that what they would care about would be the way you, you do your shoe carrying, the way you, you wax your shoes, what kind of product should you use, what kind of laces? So it was very much your standard English inspired benchmade shoe brand. And they were well made. They were not as heavy as the, the English shoes, but better and better made than the most of the Italian made shoes. So it was very classical. They wouldn't at the beginning, they didn't do, they didn't do closing. They would only make shoes for both men's and women's. So yeah, to me it was very classical. And they tried, they went. It's difficult when you do. I mean, there have been a few examples of brand, shoe, classical shoe brand, trying to go for the wool line of clothing, the clothing, shoes, accessories, et cetera. You can only mention Bert Lutti, who in A way was the same kind of story how classical shoe brand can become a fashion brand. But yeah, Bally is obviously a big failure.
- [64:51]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I mean, it's a bit of a shame. Look, so the reason we're talking about this guy, I buried the lead is he's dating Nicole Kidman.
- [64:59]
Marc Boget
According to you, tell everyone why you want to talk about it.
- [65:03]
Lauren Sherman
But this is the thing I keep getting. Last week all I get is like, did you see that guy who owns Bally's dating Nicole Kidman? You have to write about this.
- [65:11]
Marc Boget
And I'm like, do you, do you think, Lauren, that the whole point of buying those brands for that guy is. Was meeting Nicole Kidman maybe or just to date?
- [65:21]
Lauren Sherman
Because the other weird thing was at one of the Bally shows, not the last one, the second to last one, Cheryl Hines showed up and she was wearing head to toe Simone Bellotti, which like, let me just tell you, the like curvy Mary Jane, red Mary Janes, a skirt, a white shirt. Like, it was amazing. And I was like, what the fuck? It was the week that all the stuff about Olivia Nuzzi and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Had come out and I had to go and ask her about it. I was like. And she wasn't wearing her wedding ring. I didn't notice. And I was like, this is why I don't have good attention to detail about stuff like that. And like, but he invite. Apparently he was friends with her. Like, I don't know. I want to do a bigger story on this guy. So just sir, be aware
- [66:10]
Marc Boget
it goes to women and say, you know, that I own Valley.
- [66:13]
Lauren Sherman
Like, like, I think they'd be more impressed with Club Monaco. I don't know. It's so, it's so random though. It's just like the weirdest story.
- [66:23]
Advertisement Voice 2
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- [66:24]
Lauren Sherman
I really want to do a bigger story on him.
- [66:26]
Marc Boget
Yeah, we need, we need more information.
- [66:28]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I, you know, Mr. Reinstein, please reach out to me. I've. I've emailed you many times. I've asked your PR people. I would love to have a coffee. I'm in LA until the end of August. Let's hang out. I don't care that you're dating Nicole Kidman, but it's just. It's just the whole thing is I don't cannot make this stuff up. With Squarespace, you can do more than just build a website. You can build a business. Squarespace helps restaurants and hotels showcase signature offerings and experiences. And with Squarespace, consultants and photographers can create invoices to collect. Well earned payments. You can even send email email newsletters to keep in touch with your loyal customers.
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Lauren Sherman
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- [68:30]
Lauren Sherman
I want to talk to you about the recent special issue of La Tiquette where you are the founder of editor and chief. But one more, one more celeb thing that I wanted to ask you about.
- [68:40]
Marc Boget
Yeah.
- [68:42]
Lauren Sherman
There has been a big. And Malik and I talked about this last week. The big like Odyssey. Tom Holland, Zendaya.
- [68:49]
Marc Boget
Yeah.
- [68:50]
Lauren Sherman
Thing I love. I think Zendaya is amazing. I love La Roach. I think they're really fun. I think she has looked absolutely ridiculous in the last few looks and I posted something about this. Tom Holland was wearing and honestly I don't. It may not have been Saint Laurent. He was wearing like a Saint Laurent esque suit and he looked. Yeah, he looked like Bugsy or something. Like he looked fine. Whatever. It's fine. She is wearing. She was wearing. Sorry to do this because I love Stuart Beavers and I actually know the person that does his celebrity design stuff too and is amazing. So sorry guys but she was wearing this like ridiculous cartoon outfit of like a red shirt and tie and white shoes and she just. They look like idiots. I just cannot take it. But I am very. I am curious what you think about.
- [69:43]
Marc Boget
You have anything.
- [69:44]
Lauren Sherman
No. You go no.
- [69:45]
Marc Boget
No. I mean there are two points in that question. The one thing is should you dress as your partner or close to what your partner is wearing. And I think it's partly one of the problem in that picture that they both are wearing ties. Yes, she isn't wearing a jacket, but there is still this idea of having a matching look, which obviously is as cringe as the Davienille show. But apart from that, I mean, it's. We have been athletic, big advocates for girls wearing ties and we like the idea behind it. I mean, the idea is obviously taking a totem of the menswear wardrobe to make it your own. But it needs to be done in a way, it needs to be precise. There needs to be some kind of humor to it. I mean, I think it works a bit better when it's not too literate. Tie wearing for men is very rules orientated. There is a specific length to it. There is a way of tying it which should be very precise. The width of the tie should align with the width of the collar. So there is. There are a few rules about wearing ties. And I think women are better when they twist it, when they make it their own, when it's tucked in the shirt, when the shirt is a bit open, when it's done with jeans. I personally prefer it when it's a bit twisted. She was very first degree, very. She wore it in a too normal way, maybe. If I may.
- [71:48]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, too normal, yeah. A person who we've previously mentioned several times on this podcast messaged me after I posted about it and said bad proportion, like the proportions were off. I think, look, I am not. I think Lolita Jacobs, your fashion director for let's Get Women's, looks great in a tie. I think Willa Bennett looks great in a tie. I think generally it's very hard to pull off if you don't have great personal style. And I think the thing about Zendaya that's interesting is she is gorgeous. She has an amazing body. I'm a huge fan. I like her a lot. She obviously really trusts law and she often looks amazing. She has no personal style. You can just tell. It's like Jennifer Lawrence doesn't know shit about fashion and doesn't care.
- [72:36]
Marc Boget
I mean, they know it's probably why it works with La Roach. I mean, she let him do the work as he doesn't have an opinion about it.
- [72:46]
Lauren Sherman
Totally.
- [72:46]
Marc Boget
Totally or not. I mean, she won't go against him.
- [72:49]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. So, yes. So that is, I think it didn't work. And I think like, when it goes to costume, he messes up. Like when it goes to costume, which this did. And you're right. If Tom had been wearing a more casual outfit, it should. She got the tie was right then it could have worked well.
- [73:08]
Marc Boget
But it was because they two ties were one tie. Too much.
- [73:14]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. Okay, so let's talk about ties and iconic ties in your 100 icons of French design, which is available on newsstands now.
- [73:27]
Marc Boget
Yeah, it is. It is sold out. It's. Yeah, it's all physically on our website, but you can still buy digital or find it in shops. So it was a fun project that we had. We basically listed the 100 pieces icons of French style. So it goes from ties, shoes, jeans, APC jeans, Charvet ties, you have spring coat, sneakers, you have things that are of use and also things that you might learn discover in litiquette, which is obviously one of the things we like to do in all our publications, make people discover stuff. All our choices were made based on taste, not on advertising. We resisted selling the pages to people.
- [74:23]
Lauren Sherman
So you. It wasn't sponsored by someone?
- [74:26]
Marc Boget
No, no. We did have some pages of advertising,
- [74:29]
Lauren Sherman
but I just assumed it had, like, one big sponsor.
- [74:33]
Marc Boget
No, no, no, we. We sadly. Well, we did that.
- [74:35]
Lauren Sherman
You're a real journalist, Mark.
- [74:38]
Marc Boget
No, well, it depends. But on that occasion, yes, we were. So basically, yeah, I love lists. I love 100 of anything. Yeah. It was just a little thing that we did for summer and people seem to like it, which is always, to me, amazing and even touching. And we do it with passion with Earth. We are not going to be rich anytime. It's okay.
- [75:07]
Lauren Sherman
It's very European way, French way of thinking.
- [75:10]
Marc Boget
You think?
- [75:11]
Lauren Sherman
Well, half. Not if you're a Bernard or. No, no, no. It is interesting to me how much in Europe people do not. Money is not the main driver of what they do. Because in America, literally everything is driven by money. If you're under 45, like I think we always talk about, we have a lot of borderline Gen X millennials at Puck. Like a lot of us are. There are many of us who are 43, 44, 45. And there is a difference of like, I'm gonna do this cause I really like it or I'm gonna do this to make money. And I think we're of like a borderline of we want both. We wanna do the thing we wanna do, but we also wanna make a lot of money because it's just like life here is just driven so much more by money. Like, my life in Los Angeles is so much more expensive than my life in Paris just because we have two cars.
- [76:15]
Marc Boget
I mean, life is expensive in the U.S. it's crazy.
- [76:19]
Lauren Sherman
Like you don't you the to go out to eat for breakfast, to go to squirrels. 100 bucks. Like it's just so do you find
- [76:28]
Marc Boget
life in Paris very inexpensive in comparison?
- [76:32]
Lauren Sherman
I feel yes. I mean, I don't. It's like crazy. That's why I keep. I mean I, you know, I'm on a shopping free.
- [76:40]
Marc Boget
That's why you are saving money by living in Paris so you can shop.
- [76:45]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, but I mean it's. Yeah, it's so much. It's not cheap. Look like, especially when you're buying Phoebe filo bags that get stolen in the Milan Metro. But for real. Yeah, right after. You know, it's so funny that Sunday night, Well, I mean Sunday night I was gonna go get ice cream and I was so excited and it got stolen on the metro.
- [77:12]
Marc Boget
No, for real.
- [77:14]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, my passport. That's why I wasn't at half of men's because I had to go back to America to get a real passport.
- [77:22]
Marc Boget
It was huge.
- [77:24]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I tried. I like, I didn't want to jinx it because it was such a. I had to go to London for a puck event and you cannot return to the Schengen with a temporary. I had an emergency passport and if we were staying until the end of our trip, like I could have traveled in the Schengen with an emergency. But once you leave the Schengen, they will not allow you to return as an emergency passport if you're an American citizen. So I had to go back to New York to get a 10 year passport. It was like. So I missed Celine. It was really sad.
- [77:56]
Marc Boget
So we can see said that Milan thief robbers have amazing taste. They identified your Phoebe filo bag.
- [78:07]
Lauren Sherman
No, I mean, what happened was I was being an idiot and didn't have. Why did I have my passport? Why did I have my Phoebe filo bag? Not in my laptop bag? Why was I carrying it? It's just the whole thing. I was stupid. But the craziest part of it is my headphones are at the police station in Milan and I've had, I've called them many times. I've had two people. One who speaks Italian.
- [78:37]
Marc Boget
Okay.
- [78:37]
Lauren Sherman
One who is an Italian, go and try to get this bag for me. And all they tell them is we'll call her. Or at least be like. They're like, they have pictures of my passport. They're like, this is person. So if anyone has any connections to the Milan police, because I am not going to be there until September 22nd or 21st and I need someone to help me get my PPE filo bag back.
- [79:06]
Marc Boget
You're talking about it on the podcast. So the brand sent you another bag or not?
- [79:11]
Lauren Sherman
No, no. First of all, I wouldn't accept it. But also, they're not doing that. They will hear this, but like, someone will hear it, but they won't do it. But I would take a very heavy discount on my glove suede glove pochette.
- [79:26]
Marc Boget
Maybe another brown sends you a bag.
- [79:29]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, my God. Gift. I can't be bought. So the final question for. On the. I love the. Oh, the thing I wanted to tell you about the 100 icons. I posted a couple photos. The one of the. What is the handbag? The. The.
- [79:48]
Advertisement Voice 2
The.
- [79:49]
Lauren Sherman
The tote bag brand that.
- [79:51]
Marc Boget
Oh, the green one.
- [79:53]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. What is it? What's that brand called?
- [79:55]
Marc Boget
Herve Chapelier.
- [79:56]
Lauren Sherman
Yes.
- [79:57]
Marc Boget
Yes.
- [79:57]
Lauren Sherman
Herve Chapelier. That's how I think I would say I own a couple of them. I love them. They're so great. Yeah, they're. I mean, they're so 90s. They were very big in America also.
- [80:09]
Marc Boget
Okay.
- [80:09]
Lauren Sherman
During the era of. In the 90s and 2000s, during the era of Vera Bradley, which has gotten a lot of play, even though I know the Celine bags, everybody. So many comments about how the Michael Ryder. The like Calico mix are not. Are based on a French brand. Whatever. They are also Vera Bradley vibe. And Vera Bradley is this like Midwestern brand that preppy sorority girls would wear. These Calico mix print. The Ayrvay Chapelier bags were popular during that time. I didn't own them then, but I've owned. I have a couple. I have like a mini one and then I. One of them is a common carry on. But I posted it and the one that you. The green. The mixed green and so many. I got so many comments on it.
- [80:56]
Marc Boget
Oh, cool.
- [80:56]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah, it was great. I thought it was interesting because it's like, what would the American ones be like? You had the Lacoste polo, not the Ralph Lauren polo. Like, it was an interesting. I thought it was nice that it was partially in English too. But will you do it for women's?
- [81:13]
Marc Boget
I feel like. Yeah. Someone you add on your podcast recently asked me if we could do the American list together. It could be a good idea to do the American 100 pieces. I love that women's. We're gonna. I mean, it works well. People like it and it's economically stable. So we are gonna do it again.
- [81:40]
Lauren Sherman
Great. Well, I love it. I love. Let's get everybody. I think it's still you can still find it if you live in a place where there are physical.
- [81:49]
Marc Boget
Yeah.
- [81:50]
Lauren Sherman
Magazines.
- [81:51]
Marc Boget
Yeah. And what I must say is that people from the US or outside of France seems to recognize the magazine more and more. And it's a slow process, and we want it to be slow but stable in. In the future and good.
- [82:09]
Lauren Sherman
So you're not taking investors right now?
- [82:13]
Marc Boget
I mean, I don't think any investors say. I mean, the guy who owns Bali wants to buy an etiquette.
- [82:21]
Lauren Sherman
No.
- [82:22]
Marc Boget
Maybe.
- [82:22]
Lauren Sherman
No, he's not allowed.
- [82:24]
Marc Boget
Okay, we will send that to him.
- [82:27]
Lauren Sherman
Mark, this was great. Thank you for taking so much time. Happy summer, and I'll see you in Paris.
- [82:32]
Marc Boget
Thank you.
- [82:35]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.