Taylor’s Altar Ego

Summary

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Fashion People – “Taylor’s Altar Ego”

Date: July 7, 2026
Host: Lauren Sherman (Puck correspondent)
Guest: Alana Fishman (Style & Shopping Director, New York Post)

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Overview

This episode dives into the intersecting worlds of fashion, celebrity, and cultural impact through the lens of Taylor Swift’s much-anticipated wedding and her wedding dress—crafted by Jonathan Anderson at Dior. Lauren Sherman and Taylor Swift expert Alana Fishman explore the signals leading up to the designer choice, the relationship between stars and fashion brands, the realities of fashion house consolidation, and the current state of the industry, with nods to Wimbledon style and Chanel’s acquisition of Charvet.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up with Alana Fishman

• Background and chemistry: Lauren and Alana reminisce about their Lucky magazine days, noting how Alana’s clean copy and pun work led her to a career covering style and shopping for major outlets.
• Alana’s Swiftie Origin Story
  • She became a Swiftie around 2012 while at Lucky magazine, citing an early love for both Taylor's music (“Mine” from “Speak Now”) and her polished, feminine style—a stark contrast to the maximalist street style boom of the time.

    “I loved how Taylor dressed like the polar opposite of that... very polished and feminine and pretty, which is the way I’ve always liked to dress.” (Alana, 10:10)

  • Chronicled Taylor’s evolving style across publications (LuckyMag.com, Vox/Racked, Time Inc., and Page Six Style/New York Post).

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2. Taylor Swift’s Style: Relatable Star or Fashion Paragon?

• Discussion of Taylor’s aesthetic and its evolving industry perception

  • Lauren: “There’s a lot of stuff she wears I really hate, but I love it... I want her to dress badly.” (11:55)
  • Alana defends Taylor’s choices as the secret to her massive relatability: she doesn’t sign away her image to any one brand, ensuring her mass appeal remains intact.
  • Alana: “If she started wearing head to toe Chanel or Schiaparelli... it would alienate a lot of folks, myself included.” (12:53)

• Is Taylor strategic with her style?

  • Lauren wonders if Taylor and her stylist Joseph are aware of the "Anthropologie gone wild" discourse.
  • Alana: “I wouldn’t say calculated... but at least to a degree, [Taylor is] aware of what everyone says about her. She continues to do the Easter egg thing because her fans love it.” (13:54)

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3. The Wedding Dress Reveal—Speculation, Easter Eggs, and Industry Shock

The Great Dress Guess

• Alana’s short list of contenders: Stella McCartney, Oscar de la Renta, Ralph Lauren, plus a handful of under-the-radar custom designers.

  • “Stella’s been a constant for a long time... I had this vision of her walking down the aisle in Stella McCartney’s first celebrity wedding dress and Paul [McCartney] singing at the altar.” (Alana, 16:23)
  • “But Taylor wants to be the first to do things and put her own stamp on it.” (16:36)

• Lauren’s speculative favorite was a bespoke New York atelier, referenced but unnamed.

Dior, Jonathan Anderson & The Easter Eggs — [20:04]

• Taylor began appearing with Dior bags and accessories—an intentional signal, perhaps missed in real time.

  “Starting around April... Taylor stepped out carrying a whole series... different Jonathan Anderson for Dior bags... she had previously not worn much Dior at all.” (Alana, 20:04)

• The final choice of Jonathan Anderson as designer is seen as avant-garde, less obvious than Taylor’s usual all-American, feminine staples.
  • “He’s a very avant-garde choice for her. I just didn’t see it.” (22:35)
  • Lauren: “The wedding dress was pretty easy... that is what I imagined her in.” (24:01)

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4. Waiting for the Big Reveal—Media Management in the AI Age

• Phones were confiscated at the wedding, guests only shared personal outfits or venue entrance shots—no dress yet.
• Both hosts joke about the perils of waiting for celebrity news in the AI era: “I am assuming everything is AI until they post.” (Alana, 25:59)
• Theorizing the announcement date, tying Taylor’s penchant for symbolism and anniversaries to possible Instagram drop timing.

  “Wednesday, July 8th is gonna mark the three year anniversary of the eras tour show in Kansas City... The caption writes itself.” (Alana, 28:20)

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5. The State of Dior & Modern Fashion Mega-Brands

• Lauren provides industry analysis on Anderson’s tenure at Dior and philosophizes on the unsustainability of mega-brand expansion.

  “I think the problem with like Dior... just like all these brands that grew a lot—engineered growth in the past few years—I think they got too big.” (Lauren, 03:57)

  • Both question if a $15B valuation for houses like Dior or Gucci is reasonable, arguing brands may need to shrink to grow.
  • “He is not a mass market designer, but he has a mass market sensibility from a marketing perspective.” (Lauren, 30:35)

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6. Wedding Attendees’ Style Hits & Misses – [35:40]

• Lauren: “Did you like anybody’s looks from the wedding? Because everything I saw was terrible.” (35:40)
• Alana’s picks:
  • Gigi Hadid in Weiderhoft: “My favorite by a landslide.” (35:48)
  • Selena Gomez: Oscar de la Renta.
  • Gracie Abrams: Chanel red ombre, “Meteor d’Art.”
  • Zoe Kravitz (vintage Balenciaga): Lauren liked her look for its realistic and wearable quality.
• Both hosts hope for an enduring Swift-Kelce marriage and look forward to seeing the dress.

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7. Wimbledon Style Highlights – [37:29]

• Lauren loved Coco Gauff’s Miu Miu fit and Naomi Osaka’s “Kill Bill” reference outfit.
• Alana’s picks for courtside style:
  • Maura Higgins in vintage Chanel (with tennis ball bag and shoes) – “very Zendaya method dressing.”
  • Nicky Hilton’s striped Monse dress—a favorite for both.
  • Commentary on Princess Kate's Gabriela Hearst (good look, but wrong shoe choice).
  • Tom Hiddleston and Michaela Coel’s striped blazers and polka-dot neckties.
  • Lauren: “Richard E. Grant... my Saltburn king.”

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8. Chanel’s Acquisition of Charvet and Fashion House Succession – [39:39]

• Both support Chanel’s move to acquire historic shirtmaker Charvet, citing fashion’s continual focus on succession and preservation:

  • “They are in the business of preserving culture and they’re not gonna... it would look bad to totally change [Charvet].” (Lauren, 40:23)
  • Discussion about the realities of luxury brands without succession plans and parallels with Hermès.

• Personal anecdotes: Lauren shares a story getting mansplained about the Chanel-Charvet deal in France, reaffirming her fashion insider bonafides.

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9. Reflections on Fashion’s Broken Business Model & Designer Stability – [43:31]

• Alana and Lauren agree on the need for some consistency in creative direction amid industry churn:
  • “I hope that this Taylor Swift thing is good for [Anderson and Dior]... it’s just an interesting time. Fashion’s in... a bad episode of Black Mirror. It’s crazy.” (Lauren, 44:09)
• Both lament vanishing entry points for young or less wealthy consumers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Taylor’s relatability and style:

  “If she started wearing head to toe Chanel or Schiaparelli... it would alienate a lot of folks, myself included.”
  — Alana Fishman [12:53]

• On industry overgrowth:

  “I think the problem with like Dior... just like all these brands that grew a lot... they got too big. I don’t know if Dior should be a $15B business.”
  — Lauren Sherman [03:57]

• On wedding news in the age of AI:

  “I am assuming everything is AI until they post... they obviously confiscated everybody’s phones.”
  — Alana Fishman [25:59]

• Predicting the wedding photos release:

  “Wednesday, July 8th is gonna mark the three year anniversary of the eras tour show in Kansas City... imagine the caption.”
  — Alana Fishman [28:20]

• On Taylor’s dress choice:

  “Jonathan’s a very bold choice... He obviously is an incredibly talented designer, but I just didn’t see it.”
  — Alana Fishman [23:05]

• Funny anecdote about industry perception:

  “On the train... some guy started mansplaining to me in French that Chanel had just bought [Charvet]. And I was like, I’m aware.”
  — Lauren Sherman [41:22]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening Scene Setting & Couture Week – 02:00
• Taylor Swift’s Style Analysis – 09:00
• The Wedding Dress Guessing Game – 16:00
• Dior Easter Eggs – 20:04
• Wedding Media Management & AI – 25:59
• Industry Analysis: Dior, Anderson, Brand Bloat – 30:35
• Wedding Guest Fashion – 35:40
• Wimbledon Style Round-Up – 37:29
• Chanel/Charvet & Fashion Succession – 39:39
• Designer Stability & Fashion’s Future – 43:31

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Tone and Vibe

Conversational, witty, and deeply informed. Both hosts combine personal anecdotes, insider observations, and sharp industry analysis, blending nostalgia and forward-thinking insights. There’s humor (and exasperation) about modern fashion’s pressures, Taylor’s eccentricities, and what these reveal about celebrity influence and cultural fragmentation.

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Final Thoughts

This Fashion People episode is a treat for anyone who cares about how fashion, fame, and business intersect behind the velvet rope. Lauren and Alana deliver both reportage and real opinions, giving listeners an intimate yet analytical look behind the fashion headlines—especially in the moments the whole world is watching, waiting, and speculating.

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Transcript

[Lauren Sherman]

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It can make restaurant reservations, book fitness classes and find new local spots, all while being rewarded at more than 45,000 merchant partners. It's like having a personal assistant baked into where you live. It's simple being a renter and now owning a home is better with built Join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt.com fashion that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com fashion make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet and today with me on the show is Alana Fishman, the style and shopping director at the New York Post we're talking Chanel's acquisition of Charvet, Wimbledon kits and fits, and of course, Taylor Swift's wedding. Happy Tuesday, everyone. Hope you had a great week. I am at the couture shows in Paris. I am tired, I am hungry. I am happy. It's not too hot here. It's hot, but not like it was last week. There are some beautiful clothes and I am going on holiday next week. For real. You'll still hear from me, though, of course. Vine Sheet and, and fashion people. We go, we go, we continue to go. You know, I'm always working Monday. Speaking of line sheet, Monday on line sheet, a couple reports from the shows, but more than that, a sort of state of Jonathan Anderson's union with Dior. I thought his couture show and the men's or show last week were the best shows he's done so far. But you can still feel what a challenging position he's in. It's not like ultimately, I think the problem, it's not like this is going away. It's going to be hard. And. And because everything is so incremental, we can really feel it. I think we all need to lighten up and just like, take it for what it is, which is nice clothes. But I went, I did much deeper analysis and some reporting and line sheet, so you should pay for it. But ultimately, what I will say is, I think the problem with like Dior but Gucci also, just like all these brands that grew a lot like engineered growth in the past few years, I think they got too big. I think it was pandemic inflation. And I don't know if Dior should be a $15 billion business. I don't know if Gucci should be a $15 billion business. His company is consolidated and I think in many cases they need to shrink, to grow for it to work. And I thought was what was good about these two collections is they were really focused, like they had everything in them that he wants to do, but they felt like him, they are going to make some people happy, some people not, but didn't feel like it was pandering to anybody. And it was just what he believes. And I think that that's what it has to be for now. And everybody just needs to chill out and like, let him do his thing for a minute. And also I. I see the appeal in a lot of it. Not all of it, but a lot of it. If I was a rich lady, I'd want one of those looks for sure. Now we're just waiting to see what Taylor Swift's dress looked like and what kind of boost he gets on sort of the, the mass market level from that elsewhere. But. But I really went in depth on this. So if you guys care about this stuff, which I know a lot of you do, you should. You should check it out. I went to Schiaparelli this morning. This Monday I've. Yesterday morning, because this is technically Tuesday, I went to Schiaparelli. I have going to write about it later this week. Standing ground. Really interesting last night. I will also have a report on that. Chanel is today, so is Armani, and then tomorrow Balenciaga and Jean Paul Gaultier. I'll have a lot more later in the week about what I think about this stuff. Malik, if you need a diversion from Fashion Week, which we always do, he has a great piece on Spanx, which is this company owned by Blackstone that should have been big and should have sort of skims. Everybody talks about how skims, like kicked Victoria's Secrets ass, but they actually kicked Spanx. Like skims basically took over for Spanx. And so what happened? And Malik gets into that. And also it's kind of the Blackstone of it all. If you're into private equity like I am, you'll find it fascinating. Then Wednesday we have a special guest appearance from Linda Wells of Airmail and the Look. Obviously, I worship Linda and her reporting. And Rachel's on vacation. So it's an interesting piece that sort of is a companion to my Monday piece about Jonathan and Dior. So check that out. Got a lot of good stuff. And if there is something you want me to address on here, I know many of you DM me, but just email me and I'll try to fulfill your request on Friday. Otherwise, have a great weekend.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Let's get going.

[Lauren Sherman]

To Lana Fishman. Welcome to Fashion People.

[Alana Fishman]

Thank you, Lauren. Oh, my gosh, it's so good to be here. It's been a long time coming as

[Lauren Sherman]

it's been a long time. So many people may not know that we used to work together. RIP Lucky magazine.

[Alana Fishman]

Lucky girl for life.

[Lauren Sherman]

Lucky girl for life. Cute outfit of the day. We had a great time last week on the news. On the Tuesday show, I had Marc Boget from Lettiquette and I was explaining to him that Lettiquette is like the cool French chic version of Lucky. He was like, I don't. I think he was like, what is that? But it was. It was good. He's. He was awesome. But the one thing I would like to shout out to you before we get started on Very important news day is Alana writes the cleanest copy of any person I've ever met.

[Alana Fishman]

Still. Lauren, thank you so much. It's what comes with being, like, a crazed perfectionist.

[Lauren Sherman]

But clean copy, great puns.

[Alana Fishman]

I love puns. What do you think about the post? But, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Working with you at Lucky was such a blast. I. Lucky was ahead of its time in so many ways, and we also had the most kickass team in fashion media.

[Lauren Sherman]

We did. I always think about Andrea.

[Alana Fishman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lauren Sherman]

And her. I think she's, like, a nurse now or something. And her day of fun.

[Alana Fishman]

A day of fun.

[Lauren Sherman]

We can't talk about that here. But also, I just want to say that, like, it was ahead of its time, but it was also behind in many ways, and that's why it doesn't exist anymore. But that's a podcast for another day, right, Alana?

[Alana Fishman]

So, yeah, I'll come back and we can talk all things Lucky.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes. Maybe we'll have Januzi on. He would die.

[Alana Fishman]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, so I wanted to have you on today because you are the ultimate Taylor Swift expert. And I think, like, more about. More than her clothes. But, like, all I know is because, you know, I. I only know a few Taylor Swift songs, so I don't. But you've been. How long have you been. How long have you been obsessed with Taylor Swift? And how did you incorporate that into your reporting as the shopping and style director at the New York Post?

[Alana Fishman]

Yeah, of course. So, you know what's really funny? I was thinking about it the other day. I became a Swiftie while working for you at lucky. It was 2011 or. No, 2012. I want to say that was the first time I heard a Taylor Swift song and, like, really fell in love with it. It was mine from Speak. Now, I still think that's one of her best written songs of all time. But at the same time, it's, like, hard to tell whether I fell in love with her music or her fashion first. And I know her fashion has a lot of haters, and we will definitely get into that. But at the time, like, Lauren, you remember when we were at Lucky and the street style scene was really blowing up as its own kind of, like, form of entertainment.

[Lauren Sherman]

Cute outfit of the day.

[Alana Fishman]

Yeah, cute outfit of the day. Exactly. It was like the age of street style and mixed prints and patterns and really, like, it was. It was very maximalist.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Alana Fishman]

And I loved how Taylor dressed like, the polar opposite of that. She was gearing up for Red at the time, which was her self described 50s housewife era. She was ahead of the curve with the whole trad wife style moment too.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Alana Fishman]

But she was wearing like, you know, the circle skirts and the little cashmere sweaters and like just very polished and feminine and pretty, which is the way I've always liked to dress. So I felt.

[Lauren Sherman]

So no jeans for Alana.

[Alana Fishman]

No jeans for Alana. Lauren. I finally am wearing jeans now and it took. I went at least a decade and a half without owning jeans or pants.

[Lauren Sherman]

Incredible stuff. Incredible stuff.

[Alana Fishman]

But that is how I first fell in love with her style and her music kind of simultaneously. I can't even remember which came first. All I know is it was around 2012 when I was at Lucky and so I started to chronicle her fashion choices on luckymag.com, rIP and then also at Vox Media where I was at racked as the entertainment editor. Shout out to Britt.

[Lauren Sherman]

Shout out to Brit.

[Alana Fishman]

And at Time Inc. For a Hot Summ second working at Style Watch and now at Page Six Style, which I joined as the founding editor in 201718 and been at for eight and a half years. Isn't that crazy? Time flies.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's amazing. Well, I've enjoyed watching your rise and you're cementing yourself as a Taylor Swift expert and I am proud that you began your journey working with me at Lucky. So let's talk really, really briefly about her style.

[Alana Fishman]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

And look like you know that there's a lot of stuff she wears I really hate, but I love it. I love her style. Like, I want her to dress badly. I don't want like people, this is what people don't understand. Like I'm into her dressing badly. I. When she WORE that Stella McCartney outfit with the roll pants, I was like, please stop. Like, I don't want to see that on you.

[Alana Fishman]

Her recent looks, it's been fascinating to see how leading up to the wedding her recent looks have been more fashion person approved. Yeah. Like I feel like there has been resounding applause from people in the industry, whereas before I was one of the defenders in the industry. But yeah, it's fascinating. Like you said, like I personally, I think if she were to sign a brand deal like a lot of her peers in the industry or start dressing in like head to toe looks from designer runways, that would hurt her relatability and she became famous writing love songs that the entire world connects with and relates to. Like the fan artist connection is such a thing for Taylor and I feel like it would alienate a lot of folks, to be honest, myself included, if she started wearing head to toe Chanel or Schiaparelli or what have you.

[Lauren Sherman]

So here's a question for you. Do you think she thinks about that? So this is a thing I don't get about her because I don't follow closely enough. I only follow what other people say. And I've emailed Tree Payne a few times and have written about her style in particular. But the thing I know there's like a lot of stuff about Easter eggs and things, and she's like, do you think she is aware and her and Joseph, her stylist, are aware of the fact that. That people are looking at her as anthropology gone wild and feeling extremely, extremely connected to that? Or do you think she just wears what she likes? Like, do you think it's calculated?

[Alana Fishman]

I wouldn't say calculated. I would say she is, at least to a degree, aware of what everyone says about her. I feel like she's the kind of person who doesn't read the comments, but her team does, and they have an awareness of what is going on and what. What is being said. The Easter egg piece of it has been a Taylor thing since day one. Like back when she was capitalizing certain letters in her album liner notes that spelled out secret messages that gave kind of clues as to who the songs were about and what they were about. And she has said multiple times, like, she continues to do the Easter egg thing because her fans love it. And so it's kind of her game with them. And it does translate to her style in a really big way. I mean, I am also the kind of swiftie who. Yes. I'm a longtime fan. I personally think some of the Swifties take it a bridge too far.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Alana Fishman]

Like, it gets sort of, you know, like adding, subtracting, dividing numbers, looking. Trying to, like, look at beadwork for things that are spelled out in the embellishments. That's a little insane. However, we can talk about how she definitely Easter egged her way to her wedding dress.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, so please, let's talk about that.

[Alana Fishman]

Yes.

[Lauren Sherman]

So her dress was designed. And so was Travis Kelce. Her husband's. Whatever suit I guess he wore.

[Alana Fishman]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

Were designed by Jonathan Anderson via Dior. The house that he and I went to the Dior couture show today and

[Alana Fishman]

thought, beautiful wedding dress, beautiful wedding dress.

[Lauren Sherman]

And there was a beautiful wedding dress the last time, too. So it's like, which one is the hint? I don't know. We will see. Maybe by the time this airs it will be. She still hasn't published a photo of it. And everything I've heard is they're just waiting for her. They don't have the choice. No one has a choice. I think that everybody involved. I was with Vanessa Friedman today at a preview of the collection and she was like, I really hope that they don't show it today because I have too much to write out about personally. I would like them to publish it today because I'm doing a big story on like what I think about like the state of Jonathan at Dior and it would be great to see the photos of them and just. Anyway, let's go back to the Easter eggs that she put to. To get to the fact that she was going to wear this Dior dress.

[Alana Fishman]

Totally. So I should start by saying Jonathan was on my short list of contenders. However, he was not at the top.

[Lauren Sherman]

So who did you think it was going to be?

[Ad Read Announcer]

I.

[Alana Fishman]

For me it was kind of a three way tie between Stella, who she's been friends with for a decade. She wears her the most of anyone in her day to day street style, which I feel like we know. Taylor dresses in eras to support her different albums. So she like shifts her style to match her sound from album to album. But Stella's been a constant for a long time. And I know like Paul McCartney performed at the wedding. I had this vision in my head of her walking down the aisle in Stella McCartney's first celebrity wedding dress and Paul singing at the altar. Like I really thought that was a possibility. Oscar de la Renta, or rather Fernando and Laura I thought had a really good shot. She loves Oscar. She, you know, she's, she's worn the house many, many times over many years. And then I thought Ralph Lauren had a shot too. Granted, a lot of celebrity brides have worn Ralph already. Which is the thing about Taylor is she wants to be the first to do things and to put her own stamp on it. And I think that in the end was pretty probably why she didn't she picked Jonathan.

[Lauren Sherman]

The one thing I was wondering is whether she would do that woman who does like a lot of custom. She's just like a custom designer. I forget her name. She does like a lot for a. I want to say like Meghan Markle and people like that. But like Amal, do you know what I'm talking about?

[Alana Fishman]

Like not Sarah Burton.

[Lauren Sherman]

No, like a.

[Alana Fishman]

She was also on my short list.

[Lauren Sherman]

Not a designer attached to a house. Like she has her own atelier in New York. I forget what her name is interesting.

[Alana Fishman]

I always knew it would be a house. Like I knew she wanted to go with a big established house. The question was which?

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Lauren Sherman]

So what were the Easter eggs?

[Alana Fishman]

Okay, so here are the Easter eggs, which, by the way, I did clock as they were. However, I didn't read too much into it and I'll explain why. So starting around April of this year, so she was already engaged. She was wedding planning. Taylor stepped out carrying a whole series, I believe five in total. Different Jonathan Anderson for Dior bags with various outfits. She had previously not worn much Dior at All. There was a Maria Grazia designed, like, yellow plaid look in at the 2024 VMAs, but obviously that was from a different. You know, that was Jonathan's predecessor. But yeah, she carried a bunch. There was a, like, buttercup yellow Applique Lady Dior. There was one of the Medelle bags with the seal, which I like, desperately, desperately want. One of the 30 Montagnier bags with a top handle she carried twice. And one of the bucket bags, the quilted. I think it's the D Motion bucket bag. And so, like, having not previously worn much Dior at all, that was sort of a Easter egg that a lot of fans picked up on right away. I didn't read too much into it at the time because she also carries lots of designer bags. Since getting together with Travis Kelce, she's carried a ton of Louis Vuitton bags. I actually thought Vuitton had a shot at designing both Travis and Taylor's looks.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Good thing that didn't happen.

[Alana Fishman]

I really thought they have a shot. And I will also say I could

[Lauren Sherman]

see the Vuitton of it. Like the Pharrell of it all. Yeah. But not the correct.

[Alana Fishman]

And he loves. He loves the house. So I thought that might be like, him, you know, bringing, you know, putting his stamp on things. But. And I do think their red carpet has gotten a lot better in recent months. Although I think Chase Infinity has a lot to do with that because she would look good in literally anything.

[Lauren Sherman]

I agree. Her body is insane.

[Alana Fishman]

Insane. Insane ins. But, yeah. But Taylor carries Gucci bags. She's carried, you know, so it's. In hindsight. Hindsight's 2020 right now. I'm like, she gave so many signs. But at the time I was like, oh, she's got some new bags, you know?

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. If I were you, I would not have thought of her because he is such a thinky designer. Like, this collection today, I like. What did you. What do you think of his clothes? I'm curious because you and I have obviously a very different taste.

[Alana Fishman]

Totally, totally. He's a very avant garde choice for her. And I say that, like, not as a diss, but, like, I just didn't see it. I think he's incredibly interesting. I like him a lot. I. I like Anderson a lot.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Alana Fishman]

Is he my absolute favorite in terms of what I would want to wear? Probably not.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. I thought that this collection today was really good. Like, it was gorgeous. And if you're a rich, cool lady, why would you not want this stuff?

[Alana Fishman]

But it's Not.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's not mass. It's very specific. And that is. I thought she would go like. She wore a very cute. I loved. I honestly, the Ralph Lauren dress she wore for the engagement photos is the favorite thing that she's ever worn.

[Alana Fishman]

Lauren, the way I feel, I loved it. I have been begging the Ralph team to restock that dress mostly so I can get one. It was so good. It was. I also. I'm glad you mentioned that because Travis was also wearing Polo Ralph Lauren on their engagement day. So they were coordinating for that moment and now they're coordinating in Dior on their wedding day. So that was a cute full circle moment. But I agree. When I think of Taylor's style, independent of her different album eras, I think all American, feminine, pretty classic, a little bit traditional again, like you could say, but reputation. She was wearing snakeskin and camouflage patterns. But like Taylor as a person at her heart tends to go more classic, feminine, beautiful. And so that is what I've always pictured for her wedding dress and for her choice of designer. So Jonathan's a very, like, bold choice. He obviously is an incredibly talented designer. Like, I love his collections. I will say the bags have been so good. Like, that's.

[Lauren Sherman]

The bags are very you and the shoes are very you.

[Alana Fishman]

I love a novelty bag. So cute.

[Lauren Sherman]

You could get a bow. I can see you in a bow bag. Yeah, I think it's. I'm very interested. I could see. The funny thing is the dress today, the wedding dress was pretty easy. And it's like, that is what I imagined her in. But the other dress, she would look amazing in. And my two favorite looks of hers are that Ralph Lauren dress she wore for her engagement photos. Cause it was just like super classic and sweet. And then I loved when she wore that vintage Gaultier. It wasn't vintage, but it was like a rental. Repurposed Jean Paul Gaultier, like, sheer top. They, like reissued it. I thought that out when she was getting it out with a little leather skirt. Yeah. He had clearly been like this. Here's the shop Essence that I have a personal shopper at will buy you a bunch. So I was like, I'm into this. Like, I like her trying to, like, be on Essence. But that ended quickly. Anyway, I want to talk to you a bit about. We have a lot to run through, but I want to talk to you a bit about the. The attendees and what you thought of a couple of them. But why do you think, like, when do you think she's going to post about it? Why do you think she hasn't yet. I would like her to post. The weirdest thing that this has made me realize is now every single conversation I have is like, well, was that actually AI? Because when I say, saw one of the photos on Saturday morning, I was like, oh, there it is.

[Alana Fishman]

I am assuming everything is AI until they post. Like, you have to be so careful in this day and age. They obviously confiscated everybody's phones. And now over the past like 48 hours, we've started to see guest post. But as you surely noticed, it's like, looks of their outfits and like, in a couple of instances, the entryway to the venue, nothing inside. Like, they're keeping it very close to the chest.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah.

[Alana Fishman]

But yeah, I think, honestly, I think they're going through wedding images right now, putting final touches on them, deciding which to release with what caption. If you had to ask me, like, I, I'm with you, Lauren. Like, I, I need them to release these photos so that I don't have to bring my laptop literally everywhere I go. Yeah, I had it with me while I was watching fourth of July fireworks.

[Lauren Sherman]

Tree, post the photos. Come on, Tree. Do it for Al. You didn't invite her? Yeah. I can't believe they didn't invite you to the wedding.

[Alana Fishman]

It was a, it was a press free event, so I, I, I felt a little bit better because of that. But yeah, obviously I would have killed to be there, but yeah, you and

[Lauren Sherman]

Blake Lively were wronged. I'm so obsessed with the fact that Blake Lively was not invited to this wedding.

[Alana Fishman]

Truly crazy.

[Lauren Sherman]

Or maybe she decided not to come. We don't know.

[Alana Fishman]

Right? We don't know. That's the thing.

[Lauren Sherman]

Maybe she was like, I don't want to draw attention to you, but I don't.

[Alana Fishman]

Please.

[Lauren Sherman]

Like, she showed up to the Met gala the day that she hours after her lawsuit got. Whatever happened to it? This is just a great. I can't wait for the, Like, I can't wait for one of their books.

[Alana Fishman]

Right, right. Well, she was, she was apparently at a. We saw photos of her at like a horse show in upstate New York. So she was in the state, but not in the city.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Someone I know was like, on a plane with Ryan to interesting Europe.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Huh.

[Alana Fishman]

I wouldn't have thought he would fly commercial for some reason, but I assume that everyone flies private.

[Lauren Sherman]

I don't know, but don't fly private, guys. It really ruins you. That's what Abigail Disney says. Oh, I, she says that the minute her parents started flying private, that's when they like, became Alcoholics. So don't do it. Guys.

[Alana Fishman]

I. I got upgraded to first class once in my life and even that was hard to come back from. I was like, oh my gosh, they're serving like warm nuts and beverages.

[Lauren Sherman]

No, I don't want to talk about it.

[Ad Read Announcer]

It's.

[Lauren Sherman]

Once you go back. Once you go, it's hard to go back.

[Alana Fishman]

It's hard to go back. But yeah, so I was gonna say that. Oh, the date when they're gonna post my theory personally. Although as we've seen with the wedding dress prediction, she surprises me all the time. I am very often wrong in my swifty guesses. But I will say Wednesday, July 8th is gonna mark the three year anniversary of the eras tour show in Kansas City that Travis attended. Attempted to give Taylor his phone number in the form of a beaded friendship bracelet. Okay, so imagine the caption. The caption writes itself. See, like. And also Taylor's very into notable dates, anniversaries, numerology. So I feel like Wednesday would be pretty perfect. But like it could happen at like 11pm tonight. It could happen Thursday or weeks from now. Yeah, it's like, it's truly anyone's guess.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, well, I really hope she posts. I really want to know. So today it will be much easier for me.

[Alana Fishman]

Well, would it be? But you're at the shows, you have.

[Lauren Sherman]

Well, here's the thing I'm talking about. Yeah, but like the way I write about the shows, I'll do more coverage of the shows later in the week. But today, like my main piece is about like Jonathan at Dior.

[Alana Fishman]

Got it.

[Lauren Sherman]

And so I. Yes, I'm gonna write about the show and write about the men's show and all that stuff. But like, for me, the context of the fact that he did a show on Wednesday, he flew to New York, whatever day he was there for them, he did both of them. And then also flew back on the Red eye on Saturday night, got in on Sunday morning, and Then Monday at 2:30 presented a couture show for clients. So they have to like set up a whole thing for the clients too. Like that's crazy.

[Alana Fishman]

It's wild. I wonder if Carly was on his plane because she walked in the show.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, she was at. Yeah, she was. She walked in Schiaparelli. Yeah. I mean, maybe they shared a plan.

[Ad Read Announcer]

I don't know.

[Alana Fishman]

Oh, I know. Oh yeah. Carly walks Schiaparelli, not Dior. What am I thinking?

[Lauren Sherman]

But I think like. Yeah, it's interesting because the thing is, the thing about Jonathan Anderson is that he is not a mass market designer, but he has a mass market sensibility from a marketing perspective. Like he knows how to. It's not even mass market. He's just a marketer. So like in this era of like everybody's niche, you have to have Greta Lee and Sabrina Carpenter. Like he needs to somehow he needs to merge because it's a massive niche, niches or whatever and fragmentation of culture. There's very few mass culture. Like, as my husband said, Taylor Swift may be the most famous white woman in the world, but like she. Only she's. She's someone we all know, but she does not represent. Like Greta Lee in many ways is as important as her in terms of like the fabric of our culture and the way our culture works now or. Or like I don't know who the female equivalent of Mr. Beast is. I guess like Alex Earl or something like that. You know what I mean? Like, all these people are important in a different way. And so a brand like Dior that is really, really big, arguably. I've been thinking about this a lot the last week. Doesn't need to be as big as it is. I think probably not. I think it's actually would be better as like it's. They want it to be a 15 billion dollar business. I think it's probably. Its natural size is like $5 billion and it would be like a very nice business. And then he could do whatever he wanted. But.

[Alana Fishman]

Right.

[Lauren Sherman]

It needs to be big. So they need someone like her. And I thought, I'm just interested to see what it is because if it's a little weird, the dress, it's going to make more sense in the context of who he is. If it's just like a straight up dress and you can't recognize it, I can't imagine it will be. I think he's the kind of person that he wants to make his mark too. But I just think it's like so. And it's so interesting because there's been so many comparisons between Dior and Chanel, which, like, I assume you love Chanel. I also love Chanel.

[Alana Fishman]

I mean, who doesn't love Chanel? Like, but yeah, you're so right. The sort of more avant garde, you know, young talent coming into this very established, you know, decades, centuries old house and kind of shaking it up, but also trying to nod to the history and the legacy. It's like a very difficult tightrope to walk. I will say. I think the accessories, I mean we all know, like the accessories are what really sell in the Beauty. But like I and I think both are doing incredible jobs on that front.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's interesting one person said that they thought she. She's the kind of person that like would look back in history for like a famous person who's worn a Dior wedding dress and try to copy that. I don't know if you agree with that.

[Alana Fishman]

She. Well, okay, yes and no. I. Taylor's interesting because she like I said, she loves to make history and be the first to things and set records, break records at the same time. She is like a nerd. Complimentary. Like she wrote an entire song about Elizabeth Taylor and then acquired. I mean well, I we. My reporting suggests that Travis Kelsey purchased it for her. But an Opal, a suite of Opal jewelry once owned by her.

[Lauren Sherman]

Didn't Elizabeth Taylor wear Dior once for a wedding?

[Alana Fishman]

Yes, she did. I believe or I believe so she definitely wore Dior over the course of her life.

[Lauren Sherman]

That would be cool. Let's see what it was look like

[Alana Fishman]

what it looks like exactly. I was like Dior is one of also. I mean yes, Jonathan Anderson is there now shaking things up and making it his own. But like Dior as a house is so steeped in fashion history and Hollywood history and she loves that sort of thing. She loves like great Hollywood stars of the past and pulling references from them.

[Lauren Sherman]

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[Alana Fishman]

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[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, really quickly, did you like anybody's looks from the wedding? Because everything I saw was terrible.

[Alana Fishman]

Really? Okay, my three favorite. My favorite by a Landslide was Gigi Hadid in Weederhoft.

[Lauren Sherman]

She looked good. Yeah.

[Alana Fishman]

I want Lauren. I. I want that dress like I want that dress in the closet. Weider Hoft, which Taylor has recently worn twice. And also Jackson was one of the names being bandied around for doing Taylor's dress. I think they're not quite, you know, the longstanding storied house that she was looking for. But I thought Gigi looked amazing. I thought Selena in Oscar de la Renta looked really amazing. Kind of fitting because Taylor had worn a gold toned Oscar de la Renta dress to Selina's wedding when she married Benny Blanco last year. So a little, like, cute, you know, matching, matching pace. And I really like Gracie Abrams in that Chanel that she wore in Vogue recently. The like red ombre. Oh, yeah, Meteor d'. Art.

[Lauren Sherman]

I thought Zoe Kravitz looked good because that's what I would wear. I really like a little dress.

[Alana Fishman]

Oh, it's so cool. I think that was vintage Balenciaga. I. I need to see a shot of that dress without like a tote bag blocking it because that's the only photo we've seen.

[Lauren Sherman]

I mean, it was just felt very realistic.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

Okay.

[Lauren Sherman]

Exactly.

[Alana Fishman]

Very her.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, well, Alana, I'm happy for you that this happened and I can't wait for you for the dress to appear. I hope this is. I hope this marriage lasts a while. I hope so, too.

[Alana Fishman]

It feels like I'm getting married. I probably got more texts about this wedding than I did about my own wedding.

[Lauren Sherman]

Boy, who did you wear to your wedding?

[Alana Fishman]

Rima Acra.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh, yeah. Beautiful.

[Alana Fishman]

I loved.

[Lauren Sherman]

This was a thing I kind of thought she was going to do like Ellie Saab or something.

[Alana Fishman]

Yeah, right, Exactly. Like a pretty, classic, beautiful, you know, bridal designer.

[Lauren Sherman]

Okay, really, really quickly. Wimbledon is happening.

[Alana Fishman]

Yes, it is.

[Lauren Sherman]

I loved Coco Gauff's Miu Miu fit kit. I loved. I thought Naomi Asaka looked amazing.

[Alana Fishman]

So, so good. The Kill Bill reference.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah. Okay. Who in the stands have you admired?

[Alana Fishman]

I really like. Did you see Maura Higgins from Traders and Love Island? She was wearing vintage Chanel white Chanel little dress with one of the Chanel tennis ball bags and matching tennis ball pumps. So fun. Very. I mean, it's very like Zendaya Method dressing coated. But I thought it was super cute and fun. I like Nikki Hilton's blue and white striped monsie dress.

[Lauren Sherman]

I thought Nikki Hilton looked great.

[Alana Fishman]

I would wear that dress in a heartbeat. It's so cute. So pretty. Very occasion appropriate. What did you think About Kate, Princess of Wales. The Gabriella Hearst.

[Lauren Sherman]

I liked it. I thought it was. I don't know if that's the right brand for her, but I like.

[Alana Fishman]

It was an interesting choice. It was an interesting choice. Like I. That. That's. It's more of a Meghan Markle designer to me. And I also wish Kate had worn different shoes. I really wish she'd done a white shoe and not a brown shoe, but I'm nitpicking.

[Lauren Sherman]

That's a good. A good shout. Yeah. I put it as one of my favorite. I love. Do you know who looked really good? Is Richard E. Grant.

[Alana Fishman]

Oh, I saw that he was there. My Saltburn king. I saw that he was there, but I didn't.

[Lauren Sherman]

Oh my God. He likes Saltburn a lot.

[Alana Fishman]

I love Saltburn. Are you surprised?

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

No.

[Lauren Sherman]

Sienna Miller always looks good. Romeo Beckham looked great.

[Alana Fishman]

A lot of good Ralph looks, which is unsurprising given the Ralph tie.

[Lauren Sherman]

I mean, they own that whole thing and it's a really great marketing.

[Alana Fishman]

I liked that. I don't know if you saw, but Tom Hiddleston and Michaela Cole both did like striped blazers with polka dotted neckties, which I thought was fun.

[Lauren Sherman]

Cute. Okay, final thing. I don't know if you heard, but last Thursday, Chanel acquired Charvet.

[Alana Fishman]

Yup.

[Lauren Sherman]

And I was just curious how you feel about this. Do you care? What do you think?

[Alana Fishman]

I think it makes sense because. Right. Matthieu did that shirt in his first collection that was like $4,000 and it sold out and Nicole Kidman wore it and everyone was freaking out. I mean, it makes sense, I guess, to own the means of production now for future collections. He's clearly a classic white shirt kind of guy.

[Lauren Sherman]

It's an interesting point. Yeah.

[Alana Fishman]

I just pictured, you know, like in the Great Gatsby, the scene where Daisy's pulling out all of Gatsby's shirts and they're just raining down. I'm like, that's Matthieu right now with his like backstock of Charvet. But how do you feel about it? I'm curious.

[Lauren Sherman]

I'm fine with it. Look like I think these people don't have a succession plan. The idea that you can just keep going on forever without someone to manage it is crazy. Like, it's just impossible. Unless, like Hermes is a very unique situation where it's a 6th generation Air. I doubt that the next CEO of Hermes is going to be a Dumas person. Like, it doesn't happen that way. And the brother and sister run it said they don't have someone. And yeah, I think Hermes. I mean, Chanel. Hermes too, but Chanel obviously is the. They. They ended up winning this. I think that they are in the business of preserving culture and they're not gonna. It would look bad to totally change. I don't think the prices are going to get crazy expensive. I don't think if they change. I don't think they're going to change much while these. This brother and sister are running it. I went in on Saturday to pick up my friend, had two shirts made and she needed them and I. I had them. I was giving them to someone to take back to her to the US and it was empty 2pm on Saturday. And it. There was like, it was a normal Saturday for them, I think, like, it's really crazy there during Fashion Week during like busy, busy times. And I said the love when I. I had two custom shirts made and I went in in May and it was really crazy. And the guy was like, I'm really sorry we haven't had. We don't have time to eat lunch anymore. It's like really busy. But this Saturday, it was told the Saturday before couture was not that busy in there, but it's fun. It was funny on the train. I was on the train, like going to meet my friends for dinner and some guy started mansplaining to me in French that Chanel had just bought it. And I was like, I'm aware.

[Alana Fishman]

I'm aware. Also, it totally makes sense that you're a charvet shopper. Like, that totally tracks the road.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yeah, I love it. I'm a fan. It's good.

[Alana Fishman]

No, I mean, it makes sense. I would twist my arm. I would absolutely love to own that first Chanel Charvet shirt, but I drink so much coffee, I would say stain that thing in five seconds flat.

[Lauren Sherman]

Have you gotten any shoes or anything?

[Alana Fishman]

No, I haven't. They're so expensive.

[Lauren Sherman]

I know. You're very frugal.

[Alana Fishman]

I'm so. I'm shockingly. Yeah. Tell the people I considering my job, I am shockingly frugal. I'm like a reformation do shopper.

[Lauren Sherman]

But

[Alana Fishman]

I was thinking that, like, maybe as a little treat me moment for covering the Taylor wedding, I would get one of the Dior Medeon bags if I can.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you.

[Alana Fishman]

They're so pretty. It's like very. I love the like Marie Antoine of the hardware. It's just like they're so pretty and I feel like they're not gonna date. Like, that's the other thing. I like to buy Things that are gonna look just as relevant in 10, 15 years, whatever. But to that end, I'm interested. Yeah. I mean, like, you were talking about, like, succession plans and whatnot. Like, Matthieu and Jonathan. Like, I really hope they're. They're in it for the long haul. There's been like, the revolving door situation in fashion has just been maddening. Like, it's hard to keep up.

[Lauren Sherman]

I mean, the mat Mattu, I think is for sure. Yeah, I don't see that. I think the thing with Jonathan is I think that's a ten year project. Like, and they have invested in him and they need to keep investing in him. Yeah. It's different than Vuitton, where you can kind of like, have someone who doesn't really connect with the customer. And like, Vuitton bags still sell. Dior's a little different. But I think he's worth it. And they have put all their eggs in his basket and they need to. I think his. His contract's probably three years or five years.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lauren Sherman]

I think they should keep him for 10 and I think he should stay for 10. And then he can do whatever he wants after. He'll be like, I don't know, he's around my age, so he'll be like 50 or whatever. Like, and he can do something else and, like, become an artist or something. I don't know. But, like, all the interesting designers end up doing. But I hope that this Taylor Swift thing is good for them and it start. Because it's just an interesting time. It's like fashion's in. Someone said yesterday, fashion. It's like a bad episode of like, Black Mirror. It's crazy. It's like such a weird time. Like, unless you're Chanel, which is not a normal situation. Everybody's kind of like, what's going on. Right. And it's just. I think the brands all got too big.

[Alana Fishman]

Yeah. And everything's so expensive. There's like. No. The entry point is like, vanishing before our eyes.

[Lauren Sherman]

Yes, totally. So. But I hope you get your Dior bag. Alana, it was great to catch up. Please come on again soon.

[Alana Fishman]

I would love to.

[Lauren Sherman]

And I appreciate you.

[Alana Fishman]

Yeah, I appreciate you too. And I missed. Miss you. I miss you.

[Lauren Sherman]

We'll talk. I'll see you in September.

[Alana Fishman]

Yes, definitely. Have fun in the rest of your time in Paris.

[Lauren Sherman]

Thank you.

[Alana Fishman]

Bye Bye.

[Lauren Sherman]

Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. The show is produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, producer Maya Tribbett and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. And additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, Kelly Turner and Bob Tabador.

[Guest or Additional Commentator]

I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award winning storytelling podcast from kqed. Every week, Snap deals a new card. Like the girl whose sister was a monkey. Or the man who lived in the woods for 30 years. Or even the woman who snuck her, her lover out of prison in a dog crate. Pick a card, any card. Tap to listen. Now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify.