Loading summary
Transcript185 lines
- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
The best secrets are worn close to the skin. Enter fleur de mal, the not so secret weapon of women who know what they're doing in their clothes and out of them. Founded by Jennifer Zuccharini in 2012, Floor isn't just lingerie. It's a whole vibe. It's for the woman who owns her energy, whether in the boardroom or the bedroom. Florida Mall's whole philosophy is about the transformative power of sensuality, inspiring people to embrace their sexuality and radiate confidence in every facet of life. The lingerie is iconic, but the ready to wear? It's criminally underrated. Think dresses that contour and highlight your best assets. Corsets that hit harder than a double espresso, delicate lingerie that whispers sweet nothings, and pieces that wink and say don't ask where I got it because you already know. Speaking of secrets, Flora just dropped a rose shaped vibrator that looks like an obj but knows exactly what it's doing. Let's just say it'll be the prettiest thing in your bedside drawer. Discretion truly never looks so divine. One in you can find Flora in all the it girl neighborhoods, SoHo, West Hollywood, and soon enough, Williamsburg. Obviously use code floralovesfploridamal.com for 15% off your first order, but maybe keep that between us. If you're an experienced pet owner, you.
- [01:24]
Chris Black
Already know that having a pet is.
- [01:26]
Lauren Sherman
25% belly rubs, 25% yelling drop it.
- [01:29]
Chris Black
And 50% groaning at the bill from every pet.
- [01:32]
Lauren Sherman
Which is why Lemonade Pet insurance is.
- [01:34]
Chris Black
Tailor made for your pet and can save you up to 90% on vet bills. It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your.
- [01:41]
Lauren Sherman
Bank account get nervous.
- [01:42]
Chris Black
Claims are filed super easily through the.
- [01:44]
Lauren Sherman
Lemonade app and half get settled instantly.
- [01:47]
Chris Black
Get a'@lemonade.com pet and they'll help cover.
- [01:50]
Lauren Sherman
The vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you yelled drop it. Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet and today with me on the show is cultural commentator Chris Black. We've got a Dior review, a Bezos Sanchez wedding postmortem, a ranking of the best press trips so far this year, and Anna Wintour succession Drama. Happy Tuesday everyone. I am back in Los Angeles and I am so glad to be here. Going to hit up the pool asap. Have lunch at Houston's. Call me. Don't DM me on Instagram. I never see those. If you want to chat, text or email Me, my number's all over the Internet, as I always say. This week in Line Sheet, I've got the can't find anywhere else intel on Jonathan Anderson. Super great Dior debut. Chris and I are also going to get into that. But if you want the real reporting, you got to subscribe to Line Sheet. Plus Sarah Shapiro on Tuesday. Today is diving deep on one of our shared obsessions, Vuori, and looking at its various exit scenarios because, you know, they raised a massive, massive amount of money. But until then, let's get going with Chris. Chris Black. Welcome back to Fashion People.
- [03:19]
Chris Black
Hey. I'm very excited to be here. I thought the. The ask would never come, so thank you for having me.
- [03:26]
Lauren Sherman
You know who requested to be a guest on Fashion People?
- [03:30]
Chris Black
Who?
- [03:31]
Lauren Sherman
Your co host, Jason Stewart.
- [03:34]
Chris Black
Really?
- [03:34]
Lauren Sherman
He specifically asked me. He's. Maybe he won't come on now because I've revealed this, but he's coming on in two weeks because we're going to be in Chicago when you guys are in Chicago, and we're going to come to your show on Saturday.
- [03:46]
Chris Black
Oh, nice.
- [03:47]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, nice.
- [03:48]
Chris Black
Okay, That'll be fun. I'm glad you guys are going to be there.
- [03:50]
Lauren Sherman
It's a whole podcast weekend. We're going to a recording of the Bid Big Picture on Monday night, and then you all are also there. So we're just going to come to your. Your play or whatever you're doing.
- [04:03]
Chris Black
Yeah, it's a play, exactly. No, we were working on it this week actually on Saturday, we kind of got it all together with our friend Ryland helped us. So I'm feeling a little more confident about it. But, yeah, it's going to be. It's more of a presentation, I would say, than a play.
- [04:16]
Lauren Sherman
Will there be. What's that thing that people use to do decks?
- [04:21]
Chris Black
Yeah, basically it's a keynote. It's literally a keynote that. That Jason is going to run from a. From a laptop. That. That's the plan.
- [04:29]
Lauren Sherman
In your life, in the corporate world, do you have to make decks? Are you good at making a deck?
- [04:35]
Chris Black
I've. No, no, I'm not good at anything. That's part of the problem. I've never had Photoshop. I've never used. I've never used any design program in my entire life. I don't know how to do it. There's always people that are so good at it. I mean, at J. Crew, I do a very. Like, if I'm doing casting stuff, I can put pictures in a slide. You know what I mean? But I need things to look good. And that is something I can't do.
- [04:58]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I feel like at this point we are also old enough that if you did have to have a job where there needed to be a deck made, you could just have someone do it for you. And you just say, this is what I want on the deck. And then someone else does it.
- [05:12]
Chris Black
I'm just upset that I never learned because I just. It's like anything else in my life. I should have learned to play an instrument. I should have learned to use Photoshop or Illustrator. I should. I just didn't do it because there was always someone in my life that was better at it and willing to do it.
- [05:26]
Lauren Sherman
I don't feel bad. I don't know how to do it. I used to be really good at Photoshop. My first job was not only editorial system, but it was design assistant. And I used to like make the advertisements for this company I worked for, but nice. Yeah, I mean Photoshop is. But I have never learned how to do a deck and yet I'm so judgmental.
- [05:49]
Chris Black
Oh yeah, me too. I mean, that's why I have. I have. You know, we work with this guy, Sam Jane on everything, kind of. And he is a monster. And it's just like. Or my James, my partner, public. Like. I just have so many people in my life that are so good at it and I know it takes them so little time as well.
- [06:05]
Lauren Sherman
Well, that's the whole thing. The key to success is having people around you who are smarter than you.
- [06:10]
Chris Black
That's my entire life. That's in any. Any tiny smidgen of success that I've ever had is because someone else was. Was pulling the strings.
- [06:20]
Lauren Sherman
How was your weekend? What'd you do? You were in la.
- [06:23]
Chris Black
Yeah, I was in la. Kinda worked. We went to dinner at Max. Max and Robert's house, I heard, which was really nice. Really fun.
- [06:32]
Lauren Sherman
So fun.
- [06:33]
Chris Black
With Jason, Carolyn and Susanna and Bryce. And then. And then Saturday we kind of worked all day. I got to see my trainer Hunter three times. And then Sunday we did How Long Gone at eatscon at the Barker Hangar in Santa Monica with Kate Berlant, which was fun, you know, I. It was a big turnout. It was a. There were a lot of people there.
- [06:55]
Lauren Sherman
That's really fun. We were gonna come, but I had like a weird sit. Work dealings and I was. I had been out of town, so we ended up not going this year. But it's really fun, especially for someone who doesn't eat very much. Did you enjoy it?
- [07:11]
Chris Black
Oh, I didn't eat anything. I was There for an hour total. We. That. You get in the car, we get out, We. We're in the green room. We hang out with Kate a little bit. You know, Jason's brother was there. I hadn't seen him in a while. And then we go on stage, we do our thing, and then I leave. And we actually went to dinner at Erwan because we didn't have time to. To get it done. So instead of having, like, a chicken strip with caviar on it, I kind of, you know, I had some salmon and white rice.
- [07:33]
Lauren Sherman
Erewhon. The Erewhon hot bar. Best hot bar in America, for sure. I also. I recently met Jason's brother. He's so nice.
- [07:41]
Chris Black
Oh, yeah. Chris is the best. We also have very similar musical tastes, to the point where I think it helps Jason understand me. Him and his. Myself and his twin have a very similar. Similar taste.
- [07:52]
Lauren Sherman
That's interesting. What did you. What was your experience watching the Dior live stream on Friday?
- [07:59]
Chris Black
I mean, I've never felt more validated in my entire life. It felt. It's just seeing guys in a. On a. In a Runway setting wearing a shirt tucked in with a tie and a blazer and jeans, which is sort of my uniform. It felt very validating. Obviously, he did some Jonathan Anderson twists and turns to it, you know, But I. I think that, like, the. I watched a little bit of live stream where it was kind of just that. That video of, like, different celebrities making their way to the show.
- [08:27]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [08:27]
Chris Black
And those clothes looked. I mean, all of it was good. You know that, like, all of it's good. I mean, there's some styling stuff that I think is a little bit much, but that's the whole point, you know?
- [08:35]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [08:36]
Chris Black
Like a. The collar thing is, like, a bit much. Every collar being weird. I really don't like when a shirt is untucked with a tie, but I also understand that this is a. You know, there's like, 70 looks, so they gotta freak it a little bit.
- [08:48]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I think, like, there was a good mix of butch and femme. Like, there was some, like, more, I don't know, effeminate things. And then there was, like, stuff for your dudes, and I thought that was interesting. I did think the celebrities looked so good.
- [09:08]
Chris Black
They were so good. They looked so good.
- [09:11]
Lauren Sherman
I asked Mount Ottenberg if he was on the mood board, but you could have also been very, very.
- [09:16]
Chris Black
It's very. It's very Mel Ottenberg. It's very Melanberg.
- [09:21]
Lauren Sherman
Did you feel like. I. I felt like it didn't look like something that he would have done at L. Like there was some stuff like the wide leg pants with the sort of ruffle that felt very loewe.
- [09:35]
Chris Black
And the, you know, the bow tie with no shirt. You know what I mean? Like there's some stuff. But the, the coats, really nice. The overcoat's really nice. Yeah. And it just again, it just looks like normal clothes, like in a good way. And I think it's going to. There was that meme going around of like, this is what like a. It was like a J. Crew employees response to it. Do you remember this? Did you see this? No, I can't remember what. Oh, here we go. It's a picture of Josh o' Connor like at the step and repeat wearing, like so good. And it says the retail staff at a J. Crew when you tell them you aren't buying anything today. And it's him. But I said this to some of my colleagues and I believe it. I think that like these clothes looking like this are going to help everybody else that looks like this. You know what I mean? Because these, these are going to be so expensive and obviously, you know, like a perfectly pink cable knit sweater is not available everywhere. But like you can find a version of that at J. Crew or Brooks Brothers or, or Gap or you know, whatever. And I think that's gonna, you know, help the whole business.
- [10:37]
Lauren Sherman
I totally agree. I have a friend who went to the show and then immediately went to the Polo Ralph Lauren outlet afterwards and bought a bunch of stuff.
- [10:44]
Chris Black
Exactly.
- [10:45]
Lauren Sherman
Inspired. But yeah, the thing I wrote was like, I don't know if you feel this way because you work at J. Crew and you have access to a lot. But like, I don't think there is. There are a lot of options for if a guy just wants a lightweight chino with no stretch. Like obviously J. Crew has that and a couple of other places. But like.
- [11:06]
Chris Black
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [11:07]
Lauren Sherman
There just aren't that many. Dan was looking. My husband was looking for this and he, he has a real. He wants five pocket.
- [11:17]
Chris Black
Sure.
- [11:17]
Lauren Sherman
Twill chinos, which I'm like, that doesn't exist. That's why you keep getting these like stretch. Yeah. He finally bought. He got a pair from Buck Mason that of just a really nice chino that are. Yeah. I mean really good.
- [11:32]
Chris Black
But yeah, I was wearing my J. Crew giant fits in LA over the weekend. But I think there's also like a. To me there's military ones and there's like beams, you know, or whoever will make them. Or there's probably like an or slow one. But they're very like. Or double rl, but they're very military inspired.
- [11:48]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [11:48]
Chris Black
I think overall. Which is not the easiest to pull off.
- [11:52]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. Yeah. So I do think you're right about the trickle down. I wonder what Michael Ryder Celine is going to look like though. Because he. He worked for Phoebe Filo forever. Then he went and he ran polo at Ralph Lauren and did an incredible job sort of transforming that business. And I was expecting him to kind of come out do this. Yeah. So. And they're good friends. So like I don't. I wonder if it'll be in dialogue. I've. Everything I've heard is that it's. The Michael Ryder collection is awesome. And people are really excited about it, so.
- [12:30]
Chris Black
Well, we love that.
- [12:31]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. I love some excitement and Selena's really has really been struggling. So I think it'll be good. But yeah, I mean it's. The question I have for you is like that. That green half sip. I might. I would buy that like. I love the lowercase sort of ugly Dior logo. It's so good. The pink sweater. I. I saw a bunch of the prices. One of the overcoats was 200 grand. Just an FYI.
- [13:01]
Chris Black
But how much is the. How much is the pink cable net?
- [13:04]
Lauren Sherman
It's not that much money. It's.
- [13:06]
Chris Black
Tell me how much it is.
- [13:07]
Lauren Sherman
It's like 2100 Euro.
- [13:09]
Chris Black
I think more than 2100 Euro for a sweater in election. Pink is. I'm. I'm.
- [13:15]
Lauren Sherman
You're married to a woman. No, wait, wait, wait. It's 1200. I lied.
- [13:19]
Chris Black
Oh, 1200.
- [13:20]
Lauren Sherman
I said so. One of them is 1200. The light. So it must be a different material. There's a longer like tunicky thing that is 2100. But the. Yeah, it's 1200. The. There's like a V neck that does really look like a Dior store employee from 1982 type vibe. 1200. The houndstooth is 12. So yeah, the. The sweaters are 1200 Euro. That means they'll be 2000 in the US and you gotta just like get. You need to get to. You need to get to Europe to buy this. This shit. But they also did a sort of half boot, half chukka thing. That is really.
- [14:00]
Chris Black
Yeah. I don't. I don't love those. I don't love those. And I really don't like fisherman sandals. I just don't. I like the flip flop thing. I totally get. Flip flops are cool. The fisherman sandalwood. If you're not Davide, you can't wear that. It's like impossible to pull off.
- [14:13]
Lauren Sherman
I agree. I also think women. It's a tough. It's a tough shoe. My. My best friend, Emmy Parsons has a fisherman sandal that's really good. She sells a shit ton of them.
- [14:24]
Chris Black
Oh, for women, it's totally different.
- [14:26]
Lauren Sherman
I don't. I also don't think they're good for women. I just don't like it.
- [14:30]
Chris Black
I just don't like it. I'm kind of. With you.
- [14:32]
Lauren Sherman
I'm kind of like. A lot of my friends have them. I just cannot wear them. I also think the. The flip flop is the shoe of the summer. And I saw. I saw your wife this weekend. She has the real flip flops. It made me want them. Like, there it is. The shoe of the summer.
- [14:47]
Chris Black
She's been flopping around. I actually was sent a pair of brown suede flip flops from Stussy that are. That I guess you can only get in the store. But it's sort of like a rainbow style.
- [15:00]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [15:00]
Chris Black
That I've really. I've really liked. And they're really well priced, from what I understand. Band. This is nice. It's a nice, chunky option compared to a Havianas.
- [15:08]
Lauren Sherman
I bought the Emmy. I have a pair of Emmys leather flip flops that are super nice. And then I also bought the. I guess they're like a Miu Miu knockoff called Flozy, which. It's that sort of rope sandal. Yeah.
- [15:24]
Chris Black
I love that. I love that.
- [15:25]
Lauren Sherman
I kind of still want the Miu Miu ones because I don't actually feel that comfortable in Florida flip flops. And Mew Mew has a crossover version, but. But yeah, it's good. The. The mini book tote is $2500. Just generally, like, is there anything that you're gonna buy?
- [15:43]
Chris Black
Well, first question. Do you think now is the time for me to really start carrying my book tote that has my full name on it? Is it like, back now?
- [15:53]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, is it. Did you get it from Dior?
- [15:56]
Chris Black
Yeah, I have. I have. I have. They. I joked about how much I liked them on how long gone, and then it showed up in my house with my full name.
- [16:05]
Lauren Sherman
What is the color of it?
- [16:07]
Chris Black
It's just the blue. It's like the most classic one with like that blue print and it says Christian Dior on one side and Chris Black on the other side.
- [16:15]
Lauren Sherman
I guess I don't really.
- [16:16]
Chris Black
Funny. It's really.
- [16:17]
Lauren Sherman
I think you could. I think you could wear that anytime. It's obviously a Classic.
- [16:21]
Chris Black
I don't really like the. I. The one thing about this, and I love most of it, but I thought the Basquiat thing, I'm just like, we can't do that. Like, the Basquiat, the foundation has ruined his legacy, and it just seems really uncool. But everything else I loved.
- [16:35]
Lauren Sherman
You know, I understand that I had that conversation with someone else, too. Maybe it was Noah Johnson last week. But, like, for me, the thing that he did with this collection, and it's just beginning, like, you can't be, like, this is the best thing that ever happened.
- [16:48]
Chris Black
Totally.
- [16:49]
Lauren Sherman
But it all felt. I liked, obviously, like, the Lee Radwell photo because it was like, the color, the whatever it felt. It all felt very familiar, but also moving forward. And what I ended up writing on Monday is like, this is really good. I actually think it's gonna sell. This is not gonna fix the fundamental issues in the luxury industry. Is that because, like, fashion is not the center of culture because we don't live in a monoculture anymore, and it's just not even what it was 10 years ago. And so what is that? Like, this isn't going to save or. Or fix all the issues. It's just like a sort of step.
- [17:29]
Chris Black
I talked to. I talked to a few people, though, that said it felt really good there. Like, it felt better than it's felt in a long time. So I think that that's positive, especially if you. If you work in the business. But, yeah, I think it's going to work. And I think. I think it's good and cool and actually, that's my problem. Sometimes I see this stuff and I only somewhat understand it from, like, an art project perspective. And then I really have a tough time understanding how it's going to translate to the stuff that people can actually buy and sell.
- [17:56]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [17:57]
Chris Black
But this is very clear that this is, like, wearable.
- [18:00]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. And it is stuff people will want. And, like, it just. It felt so good. And it was. It was a relief. Like, it was just a big relief. Okay, first of all, he is the talent that we've all hyped him up to be. He is a once in a lifetime talent who is, like, making stuff for our generation and for generations to come or whatever. But also, I don't remember. Anyway, it was great. I'm really happy for him, and I'm really happy for them. Oh, the jewelry was so good. But I could go on. The main question for you before we move on to more important, well, equally important things, is, will you buy anything? Are you Gonna get a tie. Will you get one of the shirt? The, the shirting is really nice and I think the shirts are like 1200 bucks type.
- [18:53]
Chris Black
Here's my problem. Here's my problem. I just, I just don't like. Yes, in theory, yes. But I just, I clam up when it comes to buying stuff like this. I just don't care that much.
- [19:04]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [19:04]
Chris Black
Like, I would rather buy something for Alex as a gift and like, then by myself. Like, I don't. I don't know if a man needs a $1200 shirt. A man like me. Like, I want it, I like it from aesthetic standpoint, but like, if I'm buying an orally shirt for like five or six hundred bucks, that gives me a very similar feeling.
- [19:21]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [19:21]
Chris Black
And if I'm going to wear a tie, I'm going to wear a Drake shirt or Brooks Brothers shirt or J. Crew shirt. Is the reality.
- [19:27]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, yeah, I get it. And I think you're right that it's one of those rising tide things where what I was saying to someone is like, people who are enthusiasts need to buy into this. Whether that means that they actually buy it or they just start dressing like this. And then the people who don't have an opinion really, but have a bunch of money will buy it. So of course it's like that buy in. And you're right. That Orly shirt is so perfect. And it's it for me. It was very much like the colors. I'll probably buy one thing because I am like half in it. But it was the thing of, okay, this just feels like we are moving forward and we're not stuck because for the last two or three years, it just felt really stuck. So congrats to him. The best secrets are worn close to the skin. Enter Flor de Mall, the not so secret weapon of women who know what they're doing in their clothes and out of them. Founded by Jennifer Zuccharini in 2012, Floor isn't just lingerie. It's a whole vibe. It's for the woman who owns her energy, whether in the boardroom or the bedroom. Florida mall's whole philosophy is about the transformative power of sensuality, inspiring people to embrace their sexuality and radiate confidence in every facet of life. The lingerie is iconic, but the ready to wear, it's criminally underrated. Think dresses that contour and highlight your best assets. Corsets that hit harder than a double espresso. Delicate lingerie that whispers sweet nothings. And pieces that wink and say, don't ask where I got it because you already know. Speaking of secrets, Flora just dropped a rose shaped vibrator that looks like an obj but knows exactly what it's doing. Let's just say it'll be the prettiest thing in your bedside drawer. Discretion truly never looks so divine. One in you can find floor in all the it girl neighborhoods. Soho, West Hollywood, and soon enough, Williamsburg. Obviously use code floor loves fploridamal.com for a 15 off your first order, but maybe keep that between us. Hey, what's up flies? This is David Spade.
- [21:44]
Chris Black
Dana Carvey.
- [21:45]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, I know we never actually left, but I'll just say it. We are back with another season of Fly on the Wall.
- [21:52]
Chris Black
Every episode, including ones with guests, will now be on video. Every Thursday, you'll hear us and see us chatting with big name celebrities.
- [22:01]
Lauren Sherman
And every Monday, you're stuck with just me and Dana. We react to news, what's trending, viral.
- [22:06]
Chris Black
Clips follow and listen to Fly on.
- [22:08]
Lauren Sherman
The Wall everywhere you get your podcasts. Moving on to another thing that happened during Paris Fashion Week, which was this Anna Wintour stepping back from American Vogue. She's not retiring. She's still going to be the boss. She's still the like, head of editorial for Vogue globally and she's also the chief content officer of Conde now, which means she's the boss of all the magazines. But there was this succession thing and it was really funny. I, I hopped on how long gone for like two minutes and we chatted. And at the end of the conversation I was like, I'm leaning towards Samira Nasser. Get off the phone immediately and make like three calls and realize that's not happening. It's just, why would she take a job that's not an editor in chief role and way less control and all of that stuff. But what did you end up, how did you end up netting out on who you think will. Will get this gig?
- [23:11]
Chris Black
I mean, I, I guess after further consideration. It's going to be Chloe, probably.
- [23:17]
Lauren Sherman
Yes, Chloe Ma.
- [23:19]
Chris Black
I guess. I, I don't know. I mean, I, I don't really. Obviously I want it to be Sarah because I like Sarah and I think it's the right, like she put in the work, you know, in a different way. Like there's a different level of proving yourself when you go do it on your own to some extent, you know what I mean? But also like, as long as Anna's there pulling the strings, like, what, what difference does it make kind of, you know, like how much control or power or Influence you can actually have.
- [23:45]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I mean, look, I think that Sarah Moombez, who Chris is chat talking about, is the heir apparent to Anna, not the person who.
- [23:55]
Chris Black
This job. And this job's pretty low paying from what I hear.
- [23:58]
Lauren Sherman
It sounds pretty low. I mean, look, the. The numbers that I hear are insane that I would never even speak of them. Like, I. If that's what they're doing, it doesn't make any sense. Like talking to someone who worked at Conde for a long time and said they always paid their senior talent and leadership really well and then paid everyone else not well.
- [24:20]
Chris Black
But like, I mean that's, you know, that's an approach.
- [24:24]
Lauren Sherman
Yes, but you're not going to get. And that's the issue. Like, you're just not going to get the. Here's the. I close Chloe Ma. I really like her a lot. I'm a huge fan. She's super smart. She has good ideas, she's interesting. She's not an asshole. Like, I. I think she'll be great. She's actually. She's good friends with Mark Guiducci, who's gonna be the editorial director of Vanity Fair or who is the editorial director of Vanity Fair. I think it makes a lot of sense from that perspective. And I could see if Anna had stepped down fully and Sarah had become the. Whatever. I mean, they need to just call these things editor in chief. It feels so icky to the titles. Feel so icky. But if Sarah had had done that and somehow managed to like work out a deal with them where she could still over cw and it would be hilarious if they ended up buying back W, which after all the drama that happened with them getting like relinquishing it. But then I can see that. I do think Sarah's the right person from a. She knows how to build a brand, she knows how to make a magazine. And she also knows how to deal with people and put the right people around her. And I could see her and Chloe being partners in the way that Anna and Grace Coddington were. It's sort of the opposite where Sarah's a stylist and Chloe's more at it and Anna was. Is just an organizer of people and editor and, and Grace was the real creative stylist. But like, I could see them doing it together essentially. But in this case, and, and it's. It sucks because like, if Chloe gets it or whoever gets it, like, we should be celebrating them. But the way that they've positioned it, it's just been so diminished. And also the way the Information came out. Like, they didn't send a press release to people. They didn't set up a. An interview with Anna. Like, I. I think that they should have. And. And because. Because not only did a bunch of misinformation happen, but then, like, it just diffused when she actually does leave. If that happens in the next two years, like, everybody's gonna be like, what, did she already retire? It just. And it was so funny because I went to that Nike thing where they.
- [26:44]
Chris Black
The four minute.
- [26:45]
Lauren Sherman
The four minute. Yeah, the four minute thing. And I'm like, walking in, talking on the phone with someone, and then it happen. Like someone was telling me about the meeting, and then I see on Twitter that Fashion Week Daily has this information, and I was like. And so I had to go to this. I was like, sitting on my laptop waiting for this woman to run this mile. And then going upstairs in their media room writing about this, and I was just like, this isn't how all this was supposed to happen.
- [27:13]
Chris Black
I feel like this is by design, though, to. To diminish exactly the way you're saying.
- [27:18]
Lauren Sherman
I think it made it worse, though.
- [27:20]
Chris Black
I'm not saying it worked. I'm saying I feel like that has to be by design. Well, you don't accidentally do that.
- [27:25]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I think that there. I don't. I don't know the details, but I think, yes, I think that, like, it was. It was handled in a certain way and it's backfired. And so I hope that I know when she finally retires, whether that's a year from now or five years from now, then they will. They'll do it properly. But it's just too bad because I was like, I never thought I would get the scoop for this story. Like, I assumed they would manage it properly and have the Times do something. But I definitely was like, I didn't want to be sitting at. At this Nike event when this happened. It just was like. So I don't know, it just felt like it didn't give Anna enough credit or whatever. But anyway, I guess that doesn't matter. And that's just me being selfish. But I don't know, I think, like, the thing I was saying to someone yesterday, we were talking about you. I don't know who with who, but like, you, Leandra, Medine, all these people, you all would have worked in magazines 20 years ago. Do you know what I mean? If we had started in 1990 and not in 2004, we would all be editors of magazines.
- [28:42]
Chris Black
I mean, I would. I. Yeah, I mean, Definitely. It's, it's still, I mean, I would still do it in some regard. You know, I don't think I have like, the experience to, because I've never had a job like that. But I think that at this point, that job has changed. And it's more about, like you said, like the people around you just making it good and being interesting versus, like kind of hard skills.
- [29:04]
Lauren Sherman
Well, next time Esquire comes up, Chris, it's all yours. Let's talk Bezos, Sanchez.
- [29:11]
Chris Black
Yeah, people are big mad about this in a way that I don't really understand. Sort of.
- [29:18]
Lauren Sherman
I agree. I, I, here's the thing. I, I, I understand, I enjoyed the left sets letter on this in that he was like, this is like, this is obviously the end of late stage capitalism. And I fully agree with that. But I am also, I don't like, I'm not appalled by that. Like, of course there, it's grotesque and.
- [29:42]
Chris Black
Over the board, but this is what rich people do. I don't understand why it's controversial. Like, we just, I say this all the time, but we expect so much out of these people that we know aren't good. And I don't know why you would expect them to do anything bad. But this, I, I, I just, it baffles me. But I, I think that the, you know, I think that the, the money spent on it, it's just fascinating to people and, you know, all the celebrities of it all and, you know, you're, you know, spending $60 million giving to the city of Venice to do this. You know, it's over the top, but people are like, mad about it. You know, Charlize Theron's like, making comments about people that went, you know, and it's just like, if I got invited to that, I would go. I think you would go 100%. Like, I just don't understand. What do we expect?
- [30:27]
Lauren Sherman
I flew out on Friday from Paris and I was like, should I go and just sit around like the way the reporters do at Sun Valley? Just because we both knew, like, I know so many people who went just from doing this job. There were tons of fashion industry people there. And look, of course, the thing, here's the thing. The reason I don't understand why people are upset is we are all willing participants in this world. And there is a way that Jeff Bezos accumulated so much money. And I'm not saying that most people had control over that, but it is our society. So, like, I don't, I don't think there's sure you want to protest, great. Like, I understand that the. But the vitriol of, like, being so disgusted by people who are friends with them, who are I. That part of it I just don't get. And I am much more interested in observing why it exists and why people are engaging.
- [31:38]
Chris Black
Just like, the story's so good. Like, he's, he's the worst, she's the worst. It's like, funny to me. I don't, I don't know. I can't take it that seriously. Obviously there's like repercussions for it, but it's also just like, it's funny because right before we started talking, I, I saw this Vanity Fair story and the, the title is are you a Dior or are you a Bezos? This weekend's fancy European events show that there are two types of ultra rich, mostly glamorous people in the world, which I, I found is a very funny, funny thing to compare to each other.
- [32:06]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Yeah. I, I feel like the most interesting thing about it to me was what they wore and how they wore it. And, you know, there were several people advising them on, yeah, for sure, what to wear. And yet none of them.
- [32:27]
Chris Black
Because none of them want crazy. None of them look good either.
- [32:32]
Lauren Sherman
And they didn't look good especially. But, but part of that, I think, is because they're, in the end, they're making their own decisions. You don't have like several people advising you if you're, if you really trust the people that you have.
- [32:45]
Chris Black
So. Of course, of course. I mean, Orlando Bloom walking around in the stucy T shirt and the short shorts, that, that was big for me. DiCaprio wearing the hat over his face was big for me.
- [32:56]
Lauren Sherman
Orlando Bloom is interesting because he is someone who has gotten better looking as he's aged.
- [33:02]
Chris Black
You can tell he's dumb as a rock, but he looks great. He's got all that money from movies that I've never seen that he did 10 years ago. It's a, it's a good. He's single. Sydney Sweeney, you know, they're apparently hanging out. So. So I heard.
- [33:16]
Lauren Sherman
I thought it said it. It was her and Tom Brady.
- [33:20]
Chris Black
I think that Tom Brady is too much of a robot for women and that Orlando Bloom is actually a stick man. That's my. That's my.
- [33:28]
Lauren Sherman
I would far away take.
- [33:29]
Chris Black
I would far away.
- [33:32]
Lauren Sherman
I thought that Leo's girlfriend Victoria looked amazing. She was probably the best dressed person. Although she did wear a vintage Dolce and Gabbana that had been previously worn by Giselle.
- [33:43]
Chris Black
There's A few. I think there's a few Dolce and Gabbanas out there at the. At the event, which is. It feels very Dolce and Gabbana overall.
- [33:51]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. I liked that a lot of people wore vintage. And then the other thing that was funny, I heard, was that the Kardashians, who I thought looked great in the photos, I loved a lot of those looks, basically couldn't sit down in most of them.
- [34:10]
Chris Black
Well, look, you got to put what matters first. And that's the. The photo. That's really funny. I mean, Courtney wasn't there, which I find interesting because it was. I mean, if Corey Gamble gets the invite. Courtney, you think Travis Barker made her stay home? Like, we don't support.
- [34:23]
Lauren Sherman
Maybe she just was like, I don't want to deal with this. Which I understand, too. Like. Like, we would want to go because it. It would.
- [34:30]
Chris Black
We don't go to like that all the time. She goes to like that all the time.
- [34:32]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [34:33]
Chris Black
It's literally her life.
- [34:34]
Lauren Sherman
And who knows? Maybe she does have some sort of moral. Moral thing. But I thought it was interesting, and it was interesting to see who their friends are, who. Who was there. What.
- [34:46]
Chris Black
Who.
- [34:46]
Lauren Sherman
The Hollywood. Ari Emanuel and Sarah Sandra were there. Like, it was a lot of the Sun Valley crowd, the overlap of the fashion industry people are a lot of the same people who go to Sun Valley. And so it. It was.
- [34:59]
Chris Black
I wasn't really. There were no surprises, though, to me.
- [35:01]
Lauren Sherman
No.
- [35:02]
Chris Black
Like, people are like, Oprah. I'm like, yeah, of course Oprah's there. Of course. Jared Kushner, like, what? Like. Yeah, like, I don't know if it's surprising.
- [35:09]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. The thing is, Lauren Sanchez, by all accounts, is a very nice person. And Oprah and these people, you connect one on one with someone. Of course, you don't agree with every, like, the way they used their money, maybe, or whatever, but of course you're going to go. And I did think Oprah looked really great the whole weekend. My. My thing with the Lauren Sanchez looks is that I actually thought she did okay. I thought that the Schiaparelli was really beautiful. I thought the Dolce was not right, but it was. I understood it. The Dior did not make any sense. And the Versace was amazing. Amazing. But I.
- [35:48]
Chris Black
But I think generally, like, wasn't there, like, a McQueen?
- [35:51]
Lauren Sherman
I think that was a vintage piece that she wore previously. Pre. Yeah, but.
- [35:57]
Chris Black
Okay, sorry.
- [35:58]
Lauren Sherman
It was. A lot of it was vintage. And. And the thing is, she's making her own decisions. And honestly, she looked happy, so it it was very interesting. It was just a great experiment, and I'm glad to observe.
- [36:10]
Chris Black
Yeah, exactly. I'm just happy to observe. I'm happy to be on Earth when people are doing like this. And I get to come talk to you about it.
- [36:16]
Lauren Sherman
Yes. Okay. One final thing I wanted to chat with you about. So you were on this trip a couple weekends ago with J. Crew that a lot of our mutual friends were also on this. This press trip to somewhere in, I believe, Italy.
- [36:39]
Chris Black
Yeah, it was Puglia.
- [36:40]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, so let's talk. And. And you go. You tend to. Because of your. Your position in life where you are a cultural commentator, kind of an influencer creator, you have a very famous big podcast, and you also work in marketing at a lot of different places, including. You do work for J. Crew. Like, you get invited to a lot of these press trips. This J. Crew press trip was the first. I haven't been on a press trip in probably 10 years. It was the first press trip where I was like, damn, I wish I went. Everyone is cool. That's here. This place looks beautiful. It doesn't look like you had to do anything other than hang out with each other and take photos. What was it like, and how did it compare to other press trips that you have been on recently?
- [37:27]
Chris Black
I. I, no joke, told my colleagues. I was like, this is the best. I'm very impressed with the whole thing. I mean, the hotel was amazing. So once you lay that groundwork, it's pretty easy, you know? But I think it's. With all these things, it's the details that really matter, you know, when you get in the room and I have a comb with my name on it from Bully. You know what I mean? And all of the. All the century and Novella and everything's right and it's, you know, the food is good. But to me, the. The thing that I think made it work and the reason I think people talked about it so much is because it was a mixed crowd. Yeah, it was men and women, which I think is kind of rare on these. On these sort of things. And I think the group was just really good. I mean, obviously, I'm biased because. Because, you know, I had a say in some of it to an extent. And a lot of these people are. Almost all of them are people I know or I'm friends with. But I think that there's a mix, and I think there's a time. It was like a day and a half, and I think that is a perfect amount of time. Everybody gets along. No one. It's just. It's a nice. It's a nice. No, they didn't. It was a nice.
- [38:28]
Lauren Sherman
I just texted Chris something inappropriate, but. Sorry.
- [38:33]
Chris Black
But yeah, the. The. I. I had a very good time, and sometimes I need Chris time, and this had allowed for that.
- [38:42]
Lauren Sherman
But also, like, your whole life is Chris time.
- [38:44]
Chris Black
But that's what you would like to think. But when you're surrounded by others. You know what I mean? When you have to. When you have to. Middle at every dinner. No, but it was. It was really fun. And I also think I. It was. You know, there are some people there that I was just sort of like, acquaintances with that I actually got to talk to, you know, So I think it served the purpose. But, yeah, I had a blast. And the. The collaboration, like, the bathing suit I've been wearing since I got it, I love it. And the logo, the hotel was just really special.
- [39:09]
Lauren Sherman
That's awesome. Yeah. I feel like the evolution of press trips. Hermes has always done an amazing job, and I believe the last thing I did that was a paid trip that I. I didn't get paid, but they paid for me to go was with Hermes. And Hermes is very like, the trip I went on was to see their Palo Alto store. And I did a piece with the CEO, and it was like four of us. They. They've only. And. And I know they've. They've done some amazing stuff. But you also. Did you go on that Laura Piano one last year, too?
- [39:44]
Chris Black
Yeah, that was pretty. That was awesome. Laura Piano in Aspen in the summer was pretty awesome. But I mean, I actually had a funny experience where I was talking to Michael from Hermes. You know, we met for a coffee, and he was saying, they're reopening the Atlanta store. And I was like, oh, that's. Let me give you some names for the party. Just some people that I'm. I'm friends with that you might not be aware of or whatever. And he was like, why don't you just come? You know, and they invite me down. They. You know, it's amazing. I got to hang out with the CEO. It's like a very fun world to be a part of, because I think it does feel like, special if you do it right.
- [40:15]
Lauren Sherman
Totally. And. And I think what's happened, because there was also that Heider Ackerman Canada in Utah. That looked amazing. And I think what people are realizing is a. There are barely any magazines left, so just having some market editors from whatever, it's not really gonna move the needle. Whereas if you get a person who is not really an editor, not even really an influencer, but who is cool and maybe has 40, 000 followers or 90000 followers or something. Yeah, it's so much more valuable.
- [40:53]
Chris Black
I think it's. I think it's impactful, especially with men. I think with men, it's a very different equation. Like, I don't know if men, at least the men I know that even are successful in that world. Like, I don't. I don't know how much direct product they're moving the way the women are. Like, you know, if a woman supposed to shop my link, like, people are going to click on it, buy it. I think men, it's a little more challenging, but I think they bring something else to the table that makes it. Makes it fun and appeals to someone.
- [41:18]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Chris, what are you up to this summer?
- [41:23]
Chris Black
Oh, we're doing How Long Gone? In Chicago, Toronto, D.C. and Minneapolis. And then we are doing Lollapalooza. And then we're going to see Oasis in London. And then we're doing a show with Blondie in London the day after that. And then we're gonna go. We're having a party at Copenhagen Fashion Week with Sunflower after that. And then I have to go sequester myself. From where? Somewhere and write this book. So I'm trying to. Trying to.
- [41:55]
Lauren Sherman
Good luck. When is it due?
- [41:57]
Chris Black
Let's do it the end of the year. Let's do it in the air. So, I mean, I have some time, but I just think I. I thought I could just sort of do it in my free time, and that's not really how it works because I don't really have that much, quote, unquote, free time.
- [42:08]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I wish you the best with that. And I hope to see you at Oasis in LA at the end of the summer. You should also come to that.
- [42:16]
Chris Black
I'm going to come to as many as I can. I felt like London, making the trek. Like, Jason and I are going with our friend David Cho. And then a bunch of my friends from Atlanta are going to be there too. So I think it's going to be a fun experience.
- [42:26]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. I'm sure we'll talk soon. Thanks for doing this and good luck with your Dior. Pre order.
- [42:33]
Chris Black
Thank you.
- [42:36]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy, and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey. JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.