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- [00:03]
Jack
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- [00:29]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sher Sherman Rhetoric's fashion and Beauty Memo Line Sheet. And today with me on the show is the one and only Christopher Kane, one of the most celebrated designers of his generation. We're going to discuss everything from the state of London fashion to the state of the industry at large. Before we get going, I wanted to remind you that if you like this podcast, you'll definitely love Puck, where I send an email called Line Sheet. If you're a fashion person, you get that reference. It's an original look at what's really going on inside the fashion and beauty industries line. She is scoopy analytical and above all, fun. Along with me, a subscription to Puck gains you access to an unmatched roster of experts reporting on powerful people and companies in entertainment, media, sports, politics, finance, the art world, and much more. If you're interested listeners of Fashion People get a discount. Just go to Puck News slash Fashion People to join Puck or start a free trial. Hi, everyone. I am going to be quick today. As many of you know, I live in Los Angeles, which as many of you also know, has been ravaged this week by fire. Just want to thank everyone who has reached out. If I didn't respond to you, please know that I am really grateful and that my family and I are okay. And I hope you are okay too. And I hope you find this revealing interview with Christopher to be something of an escape from the real world. Although he does get very real about what's happening in the fashion industry right now and his feelings about it. It was a good conversation and I thought it would be a nice one to run this week. I'm online, so if you need something or you think there's something I should be writing about around these fires or anything else, message me. I will respond if I see it. And I'm just sending love to Christopher Kane. Welcome to Fashion People.
- [02:36]
Christopher Kane
Hi, Lauren. How are you?
- [02:38]
Lauren Sher Sherman
I'm so well. Thank you for being here.
- [02:41]
Christopher Kane
Yes, my. How many podcasts? Maybe my second podcast. So, yeah, pretty podcast virgin at this point.
- [02:48]
Lauren Sher Sherman
I'm so honored. And, you know, I. I think you and I are around the same age and. And yeah, so I sort of grew up in journalism as you grew up in fashion, and a lot of my fashion writer friends who, who were with me in those early days and we were going to your shows in London in 2010 or what have you are going to be so excited about this. It's like you're. I think you're only the second designer I've had on the show.
- [03:15]
Christopher Kane
Oh, no. Gosh.
- [03:16]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah. So it's. No, no, no, no. So on our Friday morning, the first question we ask is, what did you have for breakfast?
- [03:26]
Christopher Kane
I don't actually eat breakfast. I'm not a big breakfast person. It really slows me down. I've always been that person where I just like a good strong coffee gets me going and. Yes, no, I'm not a breakfast person.
- [03:40]
Lauren Sher Sherman
What time of day do you normally start? When, when is your first meal or, or snack or something?
- [03:46]
Christopher Kane
I'll probably have something around half to 3:00. Okay, so late lunch. Yeah.
- [03:52]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Wow. Okay.
- [03:53]
Christopher Kane
Yeah, in this frame of mind, it works for me. I'm not a big lunch person either. I like to really be quite on it. And when I do eat, I tend to become quite sluggish. So I'd rather just have a full day work. And it keeps me going.
- [04:07]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah, that's interesting. I feel that way sometimes. I'm just so hungry. And it's also about what you eat.
- [04:14]
Christopher Kane
Yes.
- [04:15]
Lauren Sher Sherman
There's so many different things, but it feels like also the European way is very much like big lunch or big dinner and then you're kind of.
- [04:28]
Christopher Kane
I mean, I changed a whole, like a long time ago, like maybe six years ago, I started functional medicine. So I tend to fast a lot and it really works for me. I suffer with like, I mean, some like little autoimmune diseases like psoriasis. So getting rid of the psoriasis was something to do with the gut. It's nothing fashion related, but for me it was obviously stress and the industry we work in, fashion is a very stressful job. So I had to do little changes to get rid of the psoriasis and it's went away. So. Yeah.
- [05:00]
Lauren Sher Sherman
So when did your. That's interesting. We should talk offline because the. Yeah, there's dry skin. My husband suffers. His hands are like, yeah, terribly dry. And we. Yes. And we thought he had psoriasis forever. And he would go and they would give him steroid cream and obviously that really doesn't do anything. And then he went to like a good dermatologist here in L. A and she was like, you don't have psoriasis. You just wash your hands too much more.
- [05:31]
Christopher Kane
That could be a cause because it's detergent, so acidic and astringent.
- [05:35]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah. And it was funny. I asked him how many times he washed his hand and it was crazy. I was like, but that's a good thing.
- [05:41]
Christopher Kane
He's a clean boy. We need hygiene.
- [05:44]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah, I guess so. But it's making his hands all dry and crack.
- [05:48]
Christopher Kane
But it's more common than ever. It's autoimmune. Especially psoriasis when it comes to stressful jobs and stress. Stressful lifestyles.
- [05:54]
Lauren Sher Sherman
But yeah, man, stress, stress, stress. But so how did you get into the stressful industry? Were you obsessed with fashion growing up? Or did you. So I know you went to St. Martin's and you're a Louise Wilson person and. Yeah, and that history. But how early did you start, like, wanting to design and designing Lauren?
- [06:14]
Christopher Kane
Ever since I can remember, I was always watching fashion or my sister Tam, who's five years senior. She was always wearing fashionable clothes. I come from a very working class background in Scotland, so people strangely tended to look really good and dressed up really well. They worked really hard and made good money and they would spend on great fashion. Like there was obviously the Italian Centre in Glasgow, so people were really wearing fashionable Versace, Armani. There was the first Vivian Westwood consignment in Glasgow. So there's all these amazing things happening in Glasgow and my community. So. But besides that, I had a fascination with tv. I always watched TV and I was very influenced by tv from, I suppose, the world of biology, nature to discovering Sky Television, which brought into the world of Jeannie Becker fashion tv. And I became addicted and started recording it and I learned probably so much from that.
- [07:16]
Lauren Sher Sherman
And basically my obsession began was Tim was fashionphile. Tim Blanks on. In. On sky as well.
- [07:23]
Christopher Kane
No, he was more. I never really got to see Tim, but I saw Jeannie and I saw Elsa Clench. So these are the people that were on, like the news channels and you would have a Saturday morning where I'd get the VHS machine and record. So it's like, obviously as I'm doing this call, I heard of Polymelon just passed away. And so I learned about polymelon when I was probably nine years old watching these. This. So I learned a lot of great things from fashion tv.
- [07:49]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Oh, my God, this is such a big morning. So Polly Mellon passed away. She was 101, I think.
- [07:57]
Christopher Kane
She was 100, yeah. Yeah.
- [07:59]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Wow. Incredible. Incredible woman. And then we were talking about this will run in A few weeks probably. But we are recording the morning of all the changes at Bottega and potentially the Chanel news announcement. So it may come in as we are speaking this morning, Louise Trotter left Carvin and then Bottega Veneta announced that. Yeah, Mattie, is it Blazey or Blasey? Do you know? I say Blazey, but Blazey Mattu Blasey is leaving and Louise Trotter's joining. And I reported on this a couple weeks ago, but. Or actually last week, but. So it's interesting. It's such a crazy news morning for this, but I grew up. I watched Jeannie as well. I never really watched Elsa Clench, which is weird cause I'm American and that would have been easy for me to access. But you know, in America we. More people had cable. I feel like when you. When like in the uk, a lot of people just still only have the five channels, but.
- [09:05]
Christopher Kane
Which was kind of interesting as well because there was great shows in Channel 4. Channel 4 was doing amazing things when it came to LGBTQ. LGBTQ. Oh, God, that's terrible. I don't know what to say there, how to say it, but there's always these amazing gay films and gay programs. And also Jean Paul Gaultier was on Eurotrash. So TV in the UK was quite at the forefront.
- [09:29]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Wait, what? What's Euro Trash? I don't know about you.
- [09:32]
Christopher Kane
Trash. You need to YouTube it. Jean Paul Gaultier had a show which was very like. I mean, it was so progressive for the time. It was him co hosting and it was all around sexual activities of the Europeans and. And all this crazy stuff. When you Google it, you're gonna be like, wow, this is kind of amazing. So I grew up watching that. So education was at the forefront. But TV was definitely number two.
- [09:57]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah, yeah. I. So my grandparents had cable. We would intermittently have cable and I would watch Tim on the weekends. So, like, it's crazy to me still that I know him and have like been to his.
- [10:10]
Christopher Kane
I mean, it's insane, isn't it? And I've never met Jeannie, but I've DM'd her.
- [10:14]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Oh, man.
- [10:15]
Christopher Kane
So it's like one of those things where you're like, oh my God, full circle. But it was strange because I grew up in a very normal town. Very. It was a steel industry village, very small. My mom was never fashionable. But I mean, for me she looked very fashionable in the sense that she was very simple. Whereas my sisters were always very fashionable. They were going out to discos and stuff. So they were always dressing up. But I suppose when you first saw your Helmut Lange show at the age of nine or ten, you were literally like, what the hell is going on here? Why is she wearing a bin bag and like white tights and looks phenomenal? So that was the sense that I was getting that these goosebumps mean something more than just like, what is this feeling I'm having? So, yeah, it was pretty insane.
- [10:59]
Lauren Sher Sherman
How did you end up at St. Martin's it was, it was like a long term plan. Or was it. Did you apply on a whim?
- [11:07]
Christopher Kane
I always knew again from watching these TV shows or I'm sure it was a, A Jeannie Becker special where she interviewed Hussain Shalian and oh, wow. Obviously there was people Talking about the McQueen and the Galliano, but I was much more of a Hussein boy because, I mean, a dress that turned into an airplane or a table, like that really got me. And it was almost like a Transformer esque moment where I was like, wow, this is fashion. So that for me was like St. Martin's was always in the background ringing, ding, ding, ding. And it was. I applied when I was 17, 16 and a half. 17. And I went to St. Martin's when I was 18 and did a foundation there. Then I did the B.A. then I did the Masters. So in total, it was six years at St. Martin.
- [11:58]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Oh, wow. Yeah. And did you. How do you. Because one of the things we met a couple of months ago at a. At a party.
- [12:06]
Christopher Kane
Yeah.
- [12:06]
Lauren Sher Sherman
And one of the things that I said to you is you are one of the last designers who I think of as having like an original. You're not. You don't seem. There are designers who are really good at taking inspiration from a lot of other people and making it their own. And that is a talent and incredible. But you, your. What you do feels completely germane to who you are. And that is. You're just so original. When did you start developing your idea of what you were as a designer and what kinds of references and things? Like, do you. Are you drawn to.
- [12:50]
Christopher Kane
Well, I'll take you right back to the MA where I was working with Louise Wilson, and obviously she's very well known for being this notorious leader and tyrant. But for me, Louise was the ultimate in taste maker and she knew everything about fashion and art. So to impress Louise was. I mean, that was a pedigree. So I would literally be in a studio where students were mimicking or copying the looks of Margiela or Comme des Garcons, whereas I was Back home with literally 50 quid, which is like $40 or something. And I was buying lingerie and stockings and cutting them up. It sounds really perverted. It was. It sounds really quite strange. But it was what I could afford, and I was buying them from the market, and I was making these bodycon dresses, sort of inspired by American pageants, those really bonker dresses that are literally covered in frills and rhinestones. And for me, they just felt so right and so like, the opposite to what everyone else was doing, because they were so. They were just complete vulgarity. And for me, that's something I've always done. I've always looked to places where people don't think is beauty, whereas I love that investigation. And for me, showing Louise that first dress was the most terrifying but the most electric feeling I've ever had, where I put it on the model. She's smoking a cigarette and she says, make another fucking six of these. This is fucking fabulous. And it was like, fucking. It was. She just kept saying the word fucking. Sorry, guys. So for me to, like, be hidden away in a bedroom to then come in, show her this, it was like, oh. So I wasn't wrong. My instinct's telling me something different.
- [14:30]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Was she as harsh as people? Yeah, as. And. And so either way, like, if she was complimenting or if she was, she was just gonna say it super straight.
- [14:42]
Christopher Kane
She was saying, it's super straight, but also, it's the thing where she would always pay a compliment, but then she'd stab you in the back. And she was basically saying, this is what happens in the real world. And this is honestly what working in fashion is like. You have to be. There's always someone prettier, skinnier, taller, better than you. So you always have to be 100 steps ahead. And it's true. Like, it's just. It's a very competitive industry, and you just need to be in top form. And from that moment, I've been very agile, almost like Private Detective. I always watch what's happening in the room. I'm always very conscious of what's happening and very open and on all the time. And that's something I learned from Louise because she was like, you need to see what's going on. You need to literally dig deep to find something new and never be derivative. But also, you don't want to be seen, is being in the middle either. Because when you're in the middle, you're forgotten about. You'd rather be hated or loved. In the middle is literally just like, forget about It. So strive for both of the other ones. The opposite.
- [15:41]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah. I feel like I don't. I don't. I'm not a creative person, but I see what you do, and for someone like you, I wonder, is it possible for you to feel fulfilled? Fulfilled if you're not, like, totally living your truth, which will be polarizing, like, when you. When people live their truth. When people don't live their truth, it tends to. Maybe you get a little attention. You don't get enough, but you. In order to get people to. To, like, make an impact, you have to, like, totally put yourself out there. That's. I mean, that. That takes a lot of emotional. That's a lot of emotional labor.
- [16:23]
Christopher Kane
Yeah. And I think it's like owning this authentic power. And I think being authentic, it always rings true. And people always. They understand or they come to understand. And I've had editors who have been like, I didn't get it then, but I get it now. And I'm like, well, you should have got it then, but that's okay. But, like, you're saying, like, I do see my influence in a lot of runways still, and that's okay. I take it as a form of flattery. But I am always working. I'm always working in my head, and I'm always drawing because I'm always keeping the muscle going. And I think it's really important in this industry to always keep looking and searching. And for me, that's the best part.
- [17:01]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Your career is sort of like. So it's the example, especially of the British designers of, like, that era of fashion and your trajectory, which we can go through a little bit. But when you first started out and started showing and. And you were in. You were in this London scene, you were definitely at the top of the. Of the group. But this scene of young designers coming up in London, that was sort of paralleling what was happening in New York, although that was always, as usual, more commercially driven. But, you know, there was just a real energy. Like, I lived in London from 04 to 06, and I think I went to, like, two fashion shows, but Fashion Week wasn't a thing. And then, like, a year later, it was huge. What was it like being in that world where you were being, like, you were doing projects with collections with Donatella Versace, you were the name coming up. It was this time when, like, LVMH in the late 90s had hired Marc Jacobs and Narciso Rodriguez and Michael Kors, and now there was going to be another generation, and you were always Like a name to do one of the big houses, caring, invested in your company. Like, what was it like being there at that time when there was so much energy and enthusiasm and pressure to make it into a business?
- [18:30]
Christopher Kane
I mean, when I first started my business, it was very. The unknown. There was no such thing as, like, a huge setup of support. There was definitely no social media back then. So literally, you were really depending on reviews, critics, and the buyers coming through the door. So you really had to have a. A voice and an. Like, an identity that stood apart from everyone else. So creativity was really valued. And I don't mean that like having something new. It was having something new to say, but it was like, it. I don't know, it was just. You had to have this real identity that really stood apart from all other brands and especially the bigger brands, because you were literally. I was showing up against bigger brands, like a Prada, and I was being compared to these brands and reviews and. And it was really quite. It was flattering. But I don't have millions of pounds for a budget. I was doing it from the back of a lorry in the market or buying fabric from here or upcycling things or it was just. But that's how I flourished, and that's where I got the kicks from. But obviously, I mean, when caring, invested, it was great. It was a great opportunity. But a lot of things happened there too. And I learned so much, and I've never really seen anything as a failure. And that's how I am here today, still working in the industry because you learn a lot and that's how good thing. But fashion back then was different. Lauren, as you know, you were in London. London was known for this creative hub, but there wasn't really much happening. When I started, it was maybe the Barberry or the Paul Smith, but young people were, like, definitely coming up from the outskirts, like myself, Mario Schwab. So we were kind of, like, doing something that people didn't want to talk about, which was like, sexy dressing or body con or. I mean, it was really bizarre as that. We still. People still, like, cringe when you say sexy. I'm like, yeah, that's okay. It's bizarre, that whole concept around sexy dressing. But, yeah, so we were doing something that really made people sit up and take notes.
- [20:36]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah. It's interesting you mentioned the idea of sexy, and you also said the word perverted. And I do think there's some, like, perversity in the work that you do. And I mean that in a positive way because no One addresses that. And it. It got. It got extreme in the late 2000 and tens, where the. The conservative. Like, the conservative ism. That's the word in fashion. And, like, the monk style, and there's just, like, lack of sex in everything. And I'd say in the last couple of years, and you just had. You just launched this collection with Self Portrait Portrait, right?
- [21:15]
Christopher Kane
Yeah.
- [21:16]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Do you see a change in. Because I see more and a lot of my friends wearing more. I'm wearing more fitted clothes than I've ever worn before. Do you think that it's a. There is a. An acceptance of, like, recognizing that the body is a thing? Or do you think it's still separate and that people aren't willing to acknowledge that humans are sexual?
- [21:42]
Christopher Kane
Do you know, I think that the industry we work in is very small, and it can be. Can be a lot of snobbery there. And especially when you think about sex or clothing, relating to sexy clothing, people can be quite snobby. But there's lots of opportunities in that. And me and Tammy, my sister, I work very closely with my sister. We've always done sex really different to everyone else, and that's why we stood out. But it's bizarre because when I did the self portrait, it was like, literally looking back to that very first collection, which was literally tiny, little short dresses with frills and that very American pageant world. And when I. When people saw those dresses, they were repulsed. And also they were, like, in bright neons. And I was like, well, someone's got to do it. Like, everything else has been sort of done, so I want to do something completely different. And that's what being a fashion designer for me is all about. That's the people I watched growing up, like a Helmut Lang or a Gianni for Sachi was literally make people set up and walk away with a reaction. So I don't know. Like, the industry is always changing, but I think sex will always be relevant. Elegance will always be relevant. Femininity, masculinity. I think today there's room for everything, and I think that's great.
- [22:58]
Lauren Sher Sherman
How did you and Tammy end up working so close, closely together?
- [23:01]
Christopher Kane
I mean, we're like, best friends. Like, we've done everything together. She was at college when I was at high school, so I literally saw her growing up and her inventing herself. And we then moved to London together. I get into St. Martin, she moved down with me. So we always knew it was going to be the duo. And me and Tammy were like, after I graduated, it was fast track. And we were like, okay, we're starting a business, and. And we better get our heads together. And, yeah, it was as fast as that. Literally. Graduating in a hotel room, ran a win tour, then backstage with Donatella, and then working with Donatella, and then in a sales room in Paris with buyers knocking the door, and we're like, who the hell's that? Oh, my God. Don't open the door. So it was really amazing, but it was, like, full on. Like, we were really thrown in deep.
- [23:52]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah. Do you think that as the years went on, obviously you matured and you gained more experience, but do you think that the. The puppeteers of the fashion industry, the ones that still exist, do you think they're more careful with young designers than they were now than they were when you were coming up? Because it was a sort of like, all of you got investments really quickly. You were pushed to become global brands really quickly. Like you said, you were being critiqued next to Prada and reviews, things like that. Do you think that the industry real maybe has pulled back a little bit? And the amount of pressure that they put on those new entrants, do you.
- [24:33]
Christopher Kane
Know it's a hard one, because I think. I don't know. It's like. I think today when there's all this change in fashion, I mean, change is always good. But for me, when we were starting out, it was. I was very. Always just concerned about meantime and what we were doing and having integrity and making sure we could be the most creative. And obviously, we had to sell a clothes. We never put razor blades in anything. It was, like, very wearable and brilliant. And when we first did the Crocs, everyone was also repulsed, but we had to do it. We did pool slides as well in 2012, which everyone was like, what the hell's going on here? And I'm like, yeah, pool slides with a cocktail dress. Like, I want to wear that. But young designers now, I think it's really tough. But I do think young designers have a great opportunity to learn more than ever because they have these amazing tech skills with their phone and. But for me, fundamentally research and knowing your art history and fashion history is really quite important, because being derivative is one of the downfalls of a young designer. And I think for me, I was always. I always shied away for that. And we'd always almost rip everything up to start from scratch. But it's a hard one, because I think these huge conglomerates, I mean, I think they're really in their own world now. I don't think they really care much.
- [25:55]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Well, it's not. It's two different businesses.
- [25:57]
Christopher Kane
Yeah, it's different business. But we'll always love the. The underground. And we strive for the underground. We strive for the. The. The rebel, the punk. And we hope we need more of that. More of that punk attitude and fashion.
- [26:11]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Two questions for you. One is. What. What did you say? Pill. What?
- [26:16]
Christopher Kane
Oh, pill slides. We. We. Pill. You know, like a pill slide. Pill slide. Pill slide. No, pill. P O. Oh, pull slides. Yeah, Pill slide.
- [26:29]
Lauren Sher Sherman
I thought you meant like a pill box or something. And.
- [26:32]
Christopher Kane
Yeah, that.
- [26:32]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Because I do feel like you have done some. Yeah, there was like some pill stuff, but. Oh, yes, I remember those. Oh, my God, I remember those. Yeah, that is. You really did do that stuff first.
- [26:43]
Christopher Kane
Yeah, we, we really wanted. I don't know, like, we always look back to our landscape growing up in Scotland and that's what people were wearing. And working class people looked really good back then. It was just how people dress. They always wanted to be wearing the best everything and they worked really hard for it and they kept it really good. And I'm very, very happy to have been brought up in that way because my childhood always influences me in everything I do.
- [27:15]
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- [27:48]
Lauren Sher Sherman
So one thing that I wonder about designers coming into this business now is the flood of visual information that they're receiving. So Instagram, TikTok, whatever. And I bring this up way too much, but on my Instagram feed I get tons of. I follow no account fan accounts of Carolyn Bissette Kennedy, but I get every single day, like 45 pictures of her because I do think she's interesting. And we'll look at them, but the point being that all of imagery has been flattened and so they're just constantly. It used to be like Stella Bugby, who edits the style section of the New York Times. In an interview once, she said when she made a magazine in the late 90s, you would go to the library to research and so you'd really have to work to pull your References. Whereas now it's just like, how can you do anything original when you are con, when your brain is just being inundated with other people's imagery? And A, what do you think? And B, how do you manage that? Because you're online. You're not like living in a cave. You experience this now, too?
- [29:13]
Christopher Kane
Yeah.
- [29:14]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Do you think it's possible to be as original as you. As you have been?
- [29:19]
Christopher Kane
I think it is. I think owning that authentic power and looking back what's already in your brain or people you've met or something that's happened in your childhood or where you've been brought up culturally. I think, like, you say, there's all this image, images, but it all starts to look the same. And that's really sad. So when you. When you dig deep, when you do go to a library or you do watch all these old films, you see things, oh, my gosh, this is brilliant, because. And you're kind of like, oh, I never saw that before. And that's proper research. And that's what we all had to do back at college. Yeah, we didn't have AI or chat, gbt, whatever it's called, or mobile phones. It was literally. We had to see what was happening in the street. We had to go thrifting, we had to dissect clothes. We have to. And I think we should still be doing that today. And I think students need to learn from the bottom up. But of course, they have this luxury of technology. But with technology comes a lot of responsibility. I forget who says that, but, yeah.
- [30:17]
Lauren Sher Sherman
I think, you know, you know, who says with great power comes great responsibility? Someone in Spider Man, I think.
- [30:24]
Christopher Kane
Whereas Star wars or something weird is true.
- [30:28]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Or Yoda.
- [30:29]
Christopher Kane
Yeah, it's very true. But, yeah, I think fashion is seen as something. That's all. It's just fashion, it's just clothing. But for me, it was always very cultural and emotional and personal, and that's what I always put there out there. And I think Steve Jobs said it himself. He said, cultural product things have. Culture has been the product for it to last a long time. And it's true. It can't just be the same as everyone else. And I think that's what's happening now. There's a lot of the sameness, and I don't think people are that stupid that they can keep going with the sameness. I think people do want aspiration, they do want fantasy, they do want something that's gonna take them somewhere or make them think differently or dress differently. But, yeah, fashion's going through a very strange time at the moment, for sure.
- [31:19]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Do you think the tides are changing at all? Like, there are green shoots of I think today in line sheet. And again, this is gonna run a long time a ways out from now. But I'm gonna talk a bit about Galliano leaving Margiela, and I'm not passing judgment on that collection. I think that collection, to be honest, was given a little too much weight because of the fact that there is so little creativity. But I do also really admire the conversation. It started and since then, like when you look at some of the appointments at the big houses, Peter Cupping at Lambin, Sarah Burton, Givenchy. I'm not, again, not passing judgment. These are right, but these are quote, unquote, real designers and they're not people who for a while it was really about creative product designers getting those jobs. And it feels like it's moving a little bit by. If you look at Peter and Alaia or whatever or Mattieu at Chanel, like, what do you. Do you. Do you think that the executives have woken up a little or do you think that they are just riding another trend? Because as you and I both know, the executives are definitely not creative and they literally just do what they think is going to make the money and what everyone else is doing. They never think outside the box. And I think it's actually a huge issue for the industry. But do you think. Do you think the tides have changed at all?
- [32:52]
Christopher Kane
I really hope so. And I think obviously the recent engage, like people getting these jobs is great and I think it's going to really inject a lot of energy into the industry. But I don't know. I don't have a job.
- [33:06]
Lauren Sher Sherman
I know.
- [33:06]
Christopher Kane
Well, I've had interviews and I've been told lots of things coming from these people and that's okay. Like, I take it all on board. But for me, being a fashion designer is being fashion designer. It's creating something. And from the top up you have to give these amazing ideas like any other industry. It's all about these magical ideas that then filter down into other products or the storytelling and all these things. But it's. It's really interesting. But I do think, I mean, I think people doing a great job. Like you mentioned, Peter Ally, he's doing great things with the codes. Sarah Barton, that'll be really interesting. She's going to do there because I really like Sarah and obviously Matuse Bottega Chanel. So he's done a great job. So it's really interesting. They're really strong designers, I think, and I think they have a voice, but, yeah, sometimes. Someone described me as a Formula one driver driving a Ford Fiesta, and it's true, I should be driving a Formula one car, but I'm not. But that's just how it is. It's just. I bide my time and just go on with it.
- [34:15]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Why do you think you haven't ended up doing one of those big jobs? Do you think it's just timing? And then it wasn't the right. Either they didn't. The executive didn't get it, or it just wasn't like the. My guess is that someday it will happen. But, like, do you think the stars didn't align for you in that. In that way?
- [34:37]
Christopher Kane
Maybe something like that. Like, I really. I try not to think about it too much because obviously I've. I've just closed my brand a year ago, and obviously I'm very on the fence whether to start up again or to maybe go with an established brand. So that's still up in there. But, I mean, never say never. I mean, obviously, if the opportunity came up, I would obviously think about it and think about how I could move forward and what I could do for the brand. But fundamentally, I trained for six years at the best art school. I want to be a fashion designer. I don't want to be creating merch.
- [35:12]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah.
- [35:12]
Christopher Kane
And I do think merch is really important, but it has to come from a really good place to begin from and a really good place of integrity to then get good merch. I hate calling it merch, but you know what I mean, Stuff.
- [35:24]
Lauren Sher Sherman
But, like, your More Joy line was awesome. And. And it was like.
- [35:32]
Christopher Kane
And I see joy. I mean, Joy is obviously a seasonal thing with Christmas, but even before that, I see in advertising the word more and joy in so many advertising. It's literally everywhere. So that's okay.
- [35:45]
Lauren Sher Sherman
How did you. Was Peter Savile. Did he design it?
- [35:49]
Christopher Kane
No, it was. It was from the Joy of Sex books and.
- [35:54]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. It feels like there is a Peter Savile thing about it.
- [35:59]
Christopher Kane
The same genre, the same. The same time. And it was amazing because I've always loved those books. And obviously they were very forbidden growing up. And you would go to the library and, like, adult sections, sneak read. You'd be like, oh, my God, someone's going to catch me. But it's the same. When I did, I looked at the Janny Versace books. I used to be like, hide in the library and look at them. So. But those. Those amazing Joy of sex books are great and the illustrations were just so beautiful that I had to use them and got permission from the artist. And from that we then went on to do more Joy, which was sort of like a branching out from that and.
- [36:38]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah, well, you mentioned the word authenticity earlier. And I think the word I like to use is genuine. And there was something really genuine about it. A, it looked cool, but B, it felt really good. It made people feel good. And there is something about your work and it's funny. The two designers you've mentioned are Helmut Lang and Versace, which you wouldn't think, but now I see it like thinking of you, which is so interesting because those aren't. Most designers are not pliable or flexible enough in their brain to be able to look at those two things and process them together.
- [37:20]
Christopher Kane
When you look back at those early Versace or the Helmut Lang shows, they're life giving. They really are. And they really make you have the goosebumps and you literally stare and you want to be that person, that woman, that man like helm along those shows. Like, I mean he was putting down like harnesses. They were very like Gianni Versace. They were both doing very similar things and techniques, but obviously put in a different setting, landscape. Gianni was doing harnesses, so was Helmut. But it was completely different spectrums of sex and sexuality. But that's why I loved it. It was very smart.
- [38:01]
Lauren Sher Sherman
You mentioned that you think about starting up your, your line again. What would you do differently if you did it again? And also you don't have to share. Like, did you have investors? When at different times. I know caring obviously.
- [38:18]
Christopher Kane
But like we closed because the investor we had did pillow. Everyone knows that. So we had to just obviously pull the shutters. And obviously recovering from COVID it was really tough times for everyone, but it's something I had to do. But starting up, I mean, I think the exercise, working with Self portrait and this whole concept of contemporary price points and what Hannah's done at Self Portrait Portrait is really quite like he's built an amazing business. Great quality clothes at affordable prices. And that's something that 40% of our business back in the day was those affordable price points. So it's not something I'm shy of. It's just. Yeah, I'm always very in the back of my head that storytelling needs to be there, that real like to get me going to then get to that point where I can get the 40%. Because for me it's all about, I've said it before, this strong identity that Sets you apart.
- [39:18]
Lauren Sher Sherman
This. I'm just looking through this collection right now and I. I mean, it's. It's so incredible. It looks totally like you and like nothing else and is sexy and feels contemporary. And also everything is under a thousand bucks, which is amazing.
- [39:37]
Christopher Kane
I mean, you can't fault it. It's amazing. And it's very referential for that first season because that's when I felt so free back in 2006. And it was literally just like, oh my God, we're sending down a neon dress. And honestly, Lauren, people were mortified. But I loved that because I was like, oh my God, you work in fashion. Like really? But it was one of those things where I love that, that little disrupting the industry back then. It was like, wow. So, yeah, I always look at that collection for that point of view.
- [40:16]
Lauren Sher Sherman
If you did it again, would you spend. Like, would your working process be different, do you think, or. No?
- [40:24]
Christopher Kane
No, because I love, I've always loved drawing and sketching and researching. And for me, it's like the key to my success is always finding that unknown territory or that unknown reference. So for me, I work, I dream it, live it, breathe it. And I mean, I've maybe changed my technique when I'm always on my iPad, I'm always like drawing, sketching my iPad because it's faster. So I'm always. I'm into my Photoshop now. I really love my Photoshop. But yeah, I'm very old in the sense that I'm just catching on to that. But I do love that, the fast and the speed of that tech.
- [41:01]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Do you do any other type of like, do you work in any other mediums other than clothing?
- [41:09]
Christopher Kane
I mean, I, I did, I did my first art show in Vienna in 2023, which was like primarily paintings and collage. So I do do that on the side. But I mean, most of the textiles that we've created in the shows have been done by myself, myself and Tammy. So we're very. We do like our textiles and creating and being very hands on. So. But yeah, like, I think we've learned that from the beginning, having nothing at the beginning of our business, you have to do everything from making the tea to taking the bins out to doing showrooms. And that's. I wouldn't change that for the world.
- [41:43]
Lauren Sher Sherman
If you could decide tomorrow either some dream investor, which we know they're. There's basically 0.5 of those people. Dream investor came in or you got a big job at one of the houses that is run responsibly what would you prefer to do at this point in your life? Like, would you rather be the designer of. I'm not going to say the name, but there's a brand that I really want you to be the creative director of or would you rather do your own thing again?
- [42:18]
Christopher Kane
Do you know what? I'd love to do both. But obviously at this point in time I'd really like to focus maybe on another brand or I'd love to just learn new things. But also, I mean, just working in fashion in general, like starting my own brand is also very exciting because I do think they're missing me and Tammy's influence, let's be honest. And that's something that we've always brought to the table. But I could do that in other platforms, like in other brands. So I would always authentically be me with the other brand in mind. Because, yeah, I know too much, Lauren. And that's one of my. I know too much about fashion and art and that's one of my strongest points. I can really, historically, it's just what I love. It gives me again, gives me oxygen, like research and to work in a brand and to go in the archives, I mean, who wouldn't want to do that?
- [43:12]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Did this self portrait partnership, did it light a fire in you somehow?
- [43:19]
Christopher Kane
Yeah, I think it was that sense. When we did the launch, it was like everyone was like, oh, we've really missed you. And it just shows you how much people have missed you. And I was like, this is great. But it was also that thing being back in the studio with people around you and the hustle and the. It's just so much fun being in a studio of like minded people and being around the community that just, it's just great. It's like an adrenaline buzz. And obviously when we did that launch, it was great with Karine Roitvelt do the campaign, which was. Carrion has always been a huge supporter of mine and she wore that collection and I think Karl Lagerfeld photographed her in one of the dresses. So Karine was the one person I wanted to wear it because I was like, there's no one better than carrying. Like, she's constantly copied and women should always be more caring because she's just phenomenal. So. But yeah, it was amazing.
- [44:16]
Lauren Sher Sherman
No one better.
- [44:18]
Christopher Kane
No one better. But an amazing project and an amazing product and people love it. Love it. Loved, loved. Yeah.
- [44:26]
Lauren Sher Sherman
When you look in the next 10, if you look ahead the next 10 years, what do you think? How do you think the fashion industry is going to Evolve. You've been in it for 20 at this point longer. What do you think the next 10 are going to look like?
- [44:43]
Christopher Kane
I really hope it goes back full circle and we're actually talking about creative. Fashion is a creative industry and it's not just stuff and it's not just the same stuff. I want designers to look different. I want this competitive. Like, it was always very. When we started, it was like this competitiveness which was kind of very natural. It was very, like, healthy for me to be competing against other people. I know that sounds really weird, but it was that thing. It gave me the. The push to push forward and do other things and be better. But nowadays, I mean, it's not hard to do good stuff because I don't think there's that much, much good stuff out there. When I did mention those designers like Peter and Matthew and these people are doing something really good. Or Shamina, Chloe's doing something really great. Or there's the guy at Bali. I think he's.
- [45:37]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Oh, my God, I'm obsessed with him. Simone.
- [45:40]
Christopher Kane
He's done a great job. Great clothes. Yeah, I love it, too. And so, yeah, there's. And I think GW is doing a great job at the Webby. And so these people have got a real voice. Voice. And I think we need to have more voices and more, like, radical. Being really radical. Because fashion, for me is the best time was when it was most radical.
- [46:01]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Yeah.
- [46:02]
Christopher Kane
And not seen as, like, ab fab. I think especially in London. We're always dumbing it down in London. Like, people don't really know there's a fashion week. And I think that's really sad. But you have other cultures and other cities that Paris or Italy, where it's real culture, it's been brought. You've been taught it at school. Whereas the best talent in the world comes from London, but we're not really seen. So hopefully that spotlight in London again. But, yeah, I think to really value creativity and it's the straight. Even the question. I think one of your questions said about creativity and fashion, I'm like. I'm perplexed by the question, but. Because I thought that was the whole point in any industry, ideas to inspire.
- [46:51]
Lauren Sher Sherman
I think you're getting to something. When you said about Europe and I think of the UK as being so much more respectful and fashion being a part of life compared to America, where it really is seen as something like a frivolous pursuit, whereas in France and Italy, it is a part of your life in the same way, watching movies or eating or whatever are a part of your life. And that gives it so much more weight. And I also think, like, I mostly interview executives and for years, like, they have their talking points and executives in France especially use the word creativity so much. And they understand. And look, they are becoming more corporate as the world becomes more global and more standardized. And they are basically having AI generated product that we hate. And it's disgusting, but they understand that, like, if you put in the work creatively, the upside is much. You'll. You'll make way more money on the end. You have to invest a lot up front, but you'll make more. More on the end. And so I think you're. You are like nailing a point that my hope is other people are starting to understand too.
- [48:09]
Christopher Kane
Yeah. And it's really sad to say that we're having to catch up to that again, because people like that I respect like a Mrs. Prada. She's never faulted and she's stuck true to the creative force. And that's why she's here today and who she is or Reka Acupo. These women are really quite at the front forefront of creativity and they never have shied away from it. And they're not scared of it, and we shouldn't be because it was the first thing I learned to do was to draw. So what does that say about the human race? We're always very tactile. Being creative is like the biggest, most. The biggest human outlet when it comes to music. Art, like fashion, should be seen as the same for me. I get so much joy from.
- [48:52]
Lauren Sher Sherman
I get so much joy from you. Christopher, thank you for being here.
- [48:56]
Christopher Kane
Thank you, Lauren.
- [48:58]
Lauren Sher Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.