Loading summary
Transcript106 lines
- [00:00]
Lauren Sherman
You know, those little habits that quietly upgrade your whole day. For me, it starts the moment I wake up with a giant glass of water. The breakfast of champions. Before coffee, before making my kids lunch, I grab a bottle of Fiji Water to get hydrated. Because hydration is my number one priority in life. Seriously, Fiji Water isn't just refreshing. It's Earth's fun finest water. It comes from the islands of Fiji, filtered through ancient volcanic rock and naturally preserved from external elements. It's bottled at the source and untouched by man until you unscrew the cap. Here's what makes it different. Fiji Water has a perfectly balanced 7.7 ph and has more than double the electrolytes as the other two top premium bottled water brands, giving its signature soft, smooth taste. Unlike the other two top premium bottled water brands, Fiji Water's electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. Fiji Water is also leading the way in sustainability. Since 2022, their 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made using 100% recycled plastic. Fiji Water is the number one premium importer bottled water brand in the US and it's easy to see why. Fiji Water is Earth's finest water.
- [01:24]
Lemonade Pet Insurance Announcer
Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also, yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats, and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade Pet Insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'@lemonade.com Pet Future Self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is.
- [02:02]
Lauren Sherman
Hello and welcome to Fashion People. I'm Lauren Sherman, writer of Puck's Fashion and Beauty Memo Launchy. And today with me on the show is Puck's very own retail correspondent, Sarah Shapiro. We're here to discuss the wild world of activewear. Who's in, who's out, and who is still wearing leggings. Happy Tuesday, everyone. I am officially back from my holiday. I had a great time in Montecito at the Rosewood Miramar, which is, lest you forget, our Rick Caruso property. So I have a lot of, as they call them, learnings from what's happening in Montecito with both hospitality and retail. So check those out on line sheet this week. Fascinating stuff. I had a great time. I really did relax. But I Also, you know, we're always working. On Monday, Terry Ains returned for a report on the state of menswear. I love this and so will you. Thanks again to Terry for popping in while I popped out. I really appreciate it. I hope we have her back. She is amazing in today's episode. It's a bit unique because I've been out. There's no news. If there was breaking news, I'm sorry, I'll talk about it in some issue or another this week and we can discuss it on Friday. But instead, Sarah and I got together to give you a sort of snapshot of what's happening in activewear right now. From Fiore to Alo to Lululemon to Outdoor Voices, all of it. I also wanted to mention that this was recorded hours before fitness instructor Kirsty Godso announced that she has signed with Fiore to be a brand ambassador. So this is a big deal in a certain corner of my world, I guess the skyting world. BT tub. Congrats to Chrissy and also to Chloe for 10 years of skyting. Big fan. But back to Kirsty Godso, who used to do pyrotings at Skyting. If you used to go, it was like yoga and cardio together. And she's really amazing. I love her videos and. And have been following her for years. She is major. She's like the most important fitness instructor in some ways. She. She works with Kaya Gerber. Like, she's a big deal. She was with Nike for years. And so just keep that in the back of your mind when you hear us talking about Jack Draper and his Nike to the Ori transition. Let's get going. Sarah Shapiro, welcome back to Fashion People.
- [04:40]
Sarah Shapiro
Thank you. Hi.
- [04:42]
Lauren Sherman
Hi. So we're recording this in the future or the past. I don't know what the right joke is, but I'm on vacation this week and I thought it would be a good. Still timely. So if there was any breaking news, I'll say this at the top too. But if there was any breaking news between August 19th and August 25th. Sorry, guys. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it on Friday. But I thought it was a good moment to do a sort of check in on the activewear market because there's been a lot going on. You had a piece a couple weeks ago that everyone should check out. I forget what the headline was, but do you remember that one?
- [05:28]
Sarah Shapiro
Yes. Was this. It's part of our Friday this week in shopping and it was. Has activewear peaked?
- [05:34]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, yeah. So yeah. And there were a lot of headlines around that time that were sort of flicking at that. My whole thing when you and I discussed the story was like, we've reached peak leggings or we're in a post leggings leggings era or what have you. But what did you, as someone who's been covering this industry for quite a while now and following it for even longer, what's going on in the activewear market, Give me a big picture snapshot.
- [06:10]
Sarah Shapiro
Sure. So a lot of this look, there were a couple of different things going on. So one is edited, which does a lot of retail and fashion research, did a look at the activewear industry and for the first time, probably since leggings even came out, leggings were less than 50% of activewear assortments. And it's interesting, and the more that I thought about it, it was interesting for a few reasons, because I think one, it shows that there's more diversification in what's out there for activewear. So some of the activewear brands are adding in trousers and dresses into their assortment. We definitely know, like the exercise dress and skirts are out, so they're in the assortment as well. So there's less than just leggings being like a singular skew that drives everybody. And I think the other thing that was interesting going on right now in the activewear is the return of Outdoor voices, which was the other main thing for this article.
- [07:20]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. So really quickly, I mean, let's rewind a little bit because outdoor voices, phase one or whatever had a lot to do with this sort of move away from just like plain black leggings. They did color block leggings and then they also the exercise dress, which they introduced I think in 2018, which is a long time ago, has become ubiquitous as, as racket sports have become much more popular, like through the pandemic. I remember when they released the exercise dress, it was really popular, but it was one of those things like, okay, it's selling out. Of course, you didn't buy enough, you know, the typical thing. But then it really became a thing and now it's people wear them, you know, on and off the court or what have you. But it's interesting when you mention, like I noticed this when I went to Vuorie the other day that the trousers thing and sort of. Okay. And in the new launch of Outdoor Voices, which we've talked about a lot on this podcast already, so I don't want to harp on it, but there was like button down shirts or button up shirts. Sorry, you need to have a button on the collar for it to be a button down, but button up shirts. There were little cashmere blend sweaters. And when I talked to Tyler, she really was like, people don't wear a full activewear look anymore. It's just not the way. It's not the way she dresses. It's not the way she sees people walking around dressing. I think she's correct in that observation. But I also remember, like, if you go reverse, you kind of reverse this and you look at something like theory. They started using tech fabrics. Like, I remember having a meeting with Andrew Rosin. This is probably 10 years ago. He was obsessed with these tech pants that they wore.
- [09:16]
Sarah Shapiro
I mean, when I was at Bloomingdale, so this would have been pre2011, I definitely purchased multiple pairs of like that scuba material. And I remember when it came out. And it's definitely. That also speaks to people needing to travel in a professional look. And, you know, that was starting to like, come around then as well.
- [09:37]
Lauren Sherman
So, yeah, it's an interesting reverse. And it also, I think in the same way it's been challenging or not challenging, but for a lot of sort of mall brands, they will have an activewear line. And Old Navy's for instance, is huge. But not all of them. Like, a lot of the higher end brands have launched activewear and it isn't a lasting part of their assortment or it's a smaller part. When you look at the overall market for activewear, I want to kind of go through the big players. What do you think? I know you mentioned the bringing like regular clothes into the mix. What else are they doing to differentiate? Because the thing is, like, I've heard a lot of people say to me, I already own 20 pairs of leggings I don't need anymore. But they also wear out and you have to. You have to cycle them out. Like, there are very few people who could say, I have leggings from 20 years ago. Like, it's just gross. It's like a bathing suit or something. What else do you think they're doing to sort of differentiate? Is it color wise, is it aesthetic, is it fit? What. What are they all doing to sort of prove that they are different from everyone else?
- [10:54]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah, I think Lululemon did this a lot with the different materials. Kind of in a way, it's branding the material name. So. And I'm not even remember all of them, but I know Outdoor Voices came out with their bubble material. Lululemon has had like their align material dream Knit is vori. So these are all so very much like. It's interesting how fleece. And what is it like, the polar fleece has like a specific name. Like, that becomes a brand unto itself. I think a lot of these materials did the same thing. So you be. You know which ones have better compression than others. Aloe Yoga has like an airlift, I think is their name. So they all get these specific names about their legging material. So for some time that became the thing was what kind of compression did you like? What had the right hand feel? I mean, I feel like it's been. This is another name from the past. And I don't think about it so much in terms of performance wear, but definitely leggings. But Lularoe and their buttery, soft leggings, like, that was this whole thing. So I think in some ways it became for a while the material. I don't know if that becomes. If that's still the driver. Like, if somebody launches a new material. Recently, Lululemon did away with the center seam on their align leggings. And that was like a marketing push for like a day or two. It was like a week that they pushed it.
- [12:29]
Lauren Sherman
Why did. I didn't. I mean, I don't have any. I'm sorry, I don't have any aligned leggings. I have two pairs of Lululemon leggings, but I think actually one pair is too big. And they kept falling offside. Not. Not because I'm skinny, but because they just. I bought the wrong size. And they. I think they. Maybe they were really soft, but they. I had to get rid of them. Cause they just. I kept having to pull them up when I would wear them. But I have a pair of more. They're like running tights with a drawstring in it. So I don't think they're aligned, but. So there was a seam down the back and they got rid of it.
- [13:06]
Sarah Shapiro
No, the seam down the front.
- [13:08]
Lauren Sherman
And there was a seam down the front on the aligned leggings.
- [13:11]
Sarah Shapiro
Yes. Not the leggings. We're talking about like, the gusset. So. And if you think about, you know, maybe we'll get into like the camel toe territory. Maybe this would help with that. But it just made like a nice smooth front on the aligned legging.
- [13:28]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, okay. So the gusset. Let's just. Let's use the gusset. Let's explain what the gusset is the top of the. Of the legging, so. Oh, the. So the seam down the front. Yes, they got rid of. Because they Want to help people eliminate camel toe?
- [13:45]
Sarah Shapiro
Yes.
- [13:46]
Lauren Sherman
Is this like a thing that, like the, the cool leggings don't have a seam down the front. That's not. I'm not a detail person. I would have never noticed that.
- [13:54]
Sarah Shapiro
So I would say without the seam down the front, you can get like a thinner material. And it's like you don't have that extra bunching with the seam. So that would be why it might be preferable. I'm trying to think in terms of sport, like, potentially with like spinning, you know, something where you're really engaging is.
- [14:15]
Lauren Sherman
This also is another reason for the like, did the seam exist previously? Because then you can use different pieces of material, which is cheaper to make than using one big piece and kind of having to shape it.
- [14:30]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah, I think there's definitely something with that. And in terms of like pattern making, I am sure there's various, like, improvements you can do there and the way that it lies and everything. I think of not having the seam at the gusset there. It probably the biggest difference is like a thinner material because I don't think you could do that with a lot of thicker materials and have it still lay flat.
- [14:54]
Lauren Sherman
But a line, no line. Yeah, they're literally calling it a line. No line. They trademarked it trending on Lululemon. I honestly don't think it's as flattering as the ones if you have a camel toe in your. Your leggings, they're too small on you and. And you should buy. That's. That's my advice.
- [15:16]
Chumba Casino Announcer
Ready to level up? Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like blackjack, slots and solitaire anytime, anywhere with fresh releases every week. Whether you are at home or on the go, let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary vgw group void board prohibited by law.
- [15:44]
Erin Moriarty
21/Tncs apply in 2013, two brutal murders left the city of Davis, California, paralyzed in fear.
- [15:53]
Sarah Shapiro
The victims were an elderly couple. It was up close and personal.
- [15:57]
Erin Moriarty
I'm 48 Hours correspondent Erin Moriarty. I thought I had seen it all until I encountered the mastermind behind those murders.
- [16:06]
Sarah Shapiro
He's. I think the word is psychotic.
- [16:09]
Erin Moriarty
This is 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders. Follow and listen to 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [16:26]
Lauren Sherman
Okay. Let's go through some of these brands and discuss their performance and basically like it's. Let's start with Lululemon and can you just talk about why a lot of Lululemon has been through so much. They've gone through the sheer pants controversy, they've gone through the founder making rude comments. They've gone through so much and have managed to like with, you know, push out. They have so many different competitors, but now the, the business isn't as strong as it was or it's, it's maybe it, I don't know. Can you, can you talk a bit about like what's happening specifically at Lululemon and what it says about the bigger market?
- [17:10]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah, so Lululemon is. They surpassed 10 billion in 2024. So and they've also, I was digging into some of the numbers today and 75% of their business is still done in Americas. The. But it was 79% a year prior to that. So they've had some growth in, in China and overseas. And so that's like one way that they're still continuing to grow over 700 stores. In the US they have just under 400 stores. So it's still like a pretty, it's still a big business. I know we say that a lot with Nike, like it's down, trending, but at the same time it's still a $50 billion business. Yeah, Lululemon is, is right up, not right up there, but like they're a competitor because double digit billions. So the thing that I think, you know, Lululemon also really brought in this evolution of caring about what you wear to work out in. Whereas before you might have just thrown on some pieces and now there were all these Pilates classes, barre classes, like where this look became a thing and where they stand now, I think now they've just brought in. There's so many other brands that have seen this do well and are coming to compete. The other thing that I notice a lot because I have a tween almost teenager in my house is this is what that age group really wants to wear. I'm talking like junior high, middle school girls. Like not only do they want to wear this, but at least in our community, they use those small reusable bags as their lunch bags and they hang off their backpacks. So I can't think of like any better branding than something like that. But so their looks and they've also, you know, expanded in terms of like they now have golf, they have tennis, they've played with swimwear. The biggest controversy recently, which barely registered for me, but because I fall into these various TikTok holes and communications, is that they did away with the. So they have a discount for professional athletes or instructors and they did away with ones in the dance category which when people were thinking about it like dancers are some of the ones who use Lululemon the most.
- [19:42]
Lauren Sherman
So why do you think they did? Was there an explanation for why or.
- [19:46]
Sarah Shapiro
No, I have not heard from Lululemon a comment on that yet what their reasoning for it was, but the community was very upset about it.
- [19:57]
Lauren Sherman
Why do you think they did it?
- [20:00]
Sarah Shapiro
I. I think in some ways it could very much just be an oversight and not understanding what size of that business was because it's not like when you look on their site, that's not a category. Like their categories are tennis and golf, you know, so. And even like I'm not even seeing like running in here, but I'm sure I would if. Oh, activity here at the bottom. Running, workout, casual, yoga, golf, tennis. I'm making sure I'm not hiding anything.
- [20:32]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I don't see any of that.
- [20:33]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah. So they don't have. They're not separating it out even though that's what people are wearing it for as an end use.
- [20:42]
Lauren Sherman
That's really interesting. Bring back the, the discount. So when you. When you look at Lululemon versus. Let's. Let's look at it versus Nike, which is in. In the midst of its turnaround and identity crisis, sort of and all that stuff, what do you think? Like its prospects are? I. I would say it has become the sort of go to for people that if you need new leggings and you don't really know and you don't. There's not a brand that really speaks to you. Just buy Lululemon because it's easy. But that feels like that. That moment may have passed.
- [21:30]
Sarah Shapiro
Yes. And there's the other challenge I think with Lululemon is there are tons of influencers pushing dupes or Amazon, the Amazon brand of that. People say this is just like the align leggings. So whereas before I think you could have gone to Lululemon if you just needed a pair of black leggings. There's plenty of options on Amazon now too.
- [21:51]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah. Yeah. I have a pair of Amazon leggings that Hillary Kerr recommended a few years ago and they are great and very soft. I do think they interesting thing on, on the material part. What do you think about the softness? It feels like very. What are those videos on YouTube where that people watch like ASMR where you're like. It feels very ASMR adjacent of the very soft material. And like I need a soft material with no and. And Lululemon has that thing where when you get them, you rip out the. The tag is already kind of perforated. So you can rip it out immediately. No tag, like very. And I like that material sometimes if I'm wearing leggings to go to or going to Pilates class or something like that. But I definitely don't like it when I'm in a HIIT class or running or whatever. And. And I feel like I, as you know, I bought my first Vor Vuori.
- [22:58]
Sarah Shapiro
Yes. Breaking news.
- [23:01]
Lauren Sherman
And I really like it. The material's nice and it's. It does have some compression. It's. But like so much of the stuff in there was like so soft. It almost feel. I don't like that. Like, do you think. And one of the things I haven't, I haven't bought anything from Outdoor Voices yet, but I will. But the one thing that I noticed in the description for the bubble wrap was that it has a cotton like feeling, which I thought was interesting. Do you think that we're going to move away from the like super, super soft fabrics into something a little drier or what do you. What do you think from the materials perspective? Like what's trending materials wise?
- [23:40]
Sarah Shapiro
I would say, well, trending material wise. And I don't see this so much in leggings because it doesn't performance where it wouldn't really work well, but cotton people. And I think there's two parts of that. I think one is the thought that cotton is a really great material and just feels more quote unquote natural. And then along with that the like anti plastic discourse that's certainly going on in various conversations and with Maha. And even if it's not, it's just people wanting less plastic. So if you're already thinking of somebody who's maybe caring about their water bottle and making sure that's a certain thing, like somebody who cares about wellness fits right in with that workout gear. The other thing that I think of with the materials, and again, I am a. It's been a long time since I've done fabrication, like studies of stuff. But I think a lot of that also is like, what does it look like when you're sweaty? Nobody wants a sweat stuff staying back on their gusset or certain areas. And so that's where I think the material does come in. So I think these like buttery soft Leggings. Even though nobody's saying it, I think it does highlight, especially like the heathered material. You don't see sweat as much in there. So I think in terms of material, people still want materials that aren't going to sweat. Don't smell. You know, when you're in a. Whatever people are taking these days, whether it's a Barry's bootcamp class or at a cross training gym, like, you just don't want to smell still.
- [25:22]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I go to this heated infrared HIIT class and it's. That is the issue. I'm always like, these people. Why? Why? I guess when you're doing a double, what can you do? There are people who do doubles of this class. I'm like, you're completely insane. Like, I don't know how they don't pass out.
- [25:44]
CeeDee Lamb
Hey, guys, it's Ceedee Lamb, wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys. I'm partnering with Abercrombie this season to tell you all about their viral denim. All you need to know is denim should fit like this. My jeans need to check a lot of boxes. Fit first, trend second. They need to go with whatever I'm feeling. And Abercrombie denim has it down whether I'm throwing on a tee or putting the whole fit together. Shop Abercrombie denim in the app, online and in store.
- [26:14]
College Football Announcer
New season, new chaos in college football.
- [26:17]
Lauren Sherman
Big stage, big opportunity.
- [26:19]
College Football Announcer
This Labor Day weekend. The wildness lives on ABC, ESPN and the all new ESPN app.
- [26:23]
Lauren Sherman
What a way to start.
- [26:25]
College Football Announcer
Featuring top 10 teams like Clemson, Notre Dame, Alabama and LSU. And Bill Belichick's debut at North Carolina.
- [26:31]
Lauren Sherman
It's so special.
- [26:32]
College Football Announcer
These teams collide that don't miss a lineup filled with electric matchups. Welcome back to college football kickoff week presented by Modelo. Labor Day weekend on ESPN and abc. Also available to stream on the all new ESPN app.
- [26:47]
Lauren Sherman
Okay, let's move on to Aloe.
- [26:49]
Sarah Shapiro
Okay.
- [26:50]
Lauren Sherman
Because I'm curious. Alo was trying to raise a bunch of money. I don't know if they ever actually did that. Definitely never was public. If they did, they were very good at le. Someone was leaking. I don't. I never talked to anyone directly from Alo, but I definitely talked to people around Alo about it when they were trying to raise the money and the valuation was just like completely insane. It was so high. I don't know if they were. They actually ever did it. If they did, they never announced and. And they never attempted to leak it. Maybe I can look into that. But Alo felt like sort of with the rise of Hailey Bieber was the. And the Clean Girl aesthetic. The rise of Alo. And it's very big in Los Angeles and obviously it's an LA based company, so that's part of it too. But it really did feel like it was sort of the post Outdoor Voices. Outdoor Voices was like a real fashion had a. Had a real like indie look to it in its first iteration. And it Alo was like taking the ease of Lululemon but adding a fashion lens to it that was much more basic and broader than what Outdoor Voices had been. But it just felt like it blew up at some point and was just everywhere. What do you see in the market now in terms of what's happening with them and. And how can they evolve? Because they started and like all these stores have this. But you mentioned the normal clothes thing. Like I've been to Yori in the winter and they have winter coats and things. Aloe really pushed that a couple years ago where they were like selling jackets and blazers and things like that.
- [28:39]
Sarah Shapiro
Yes. The other thing. Well, first, so Aloe. I also, when I was in Miami this summer, I realized it's also very big there. So it's a lot of these matching colored sets. Like I think people who want something maybe that feels a little more on trend and fashion forward will go to Aloe versus a Lululemon. But it feels just as accessible and like easy to go in and grab some looks from there. They. Yes, they have, I think around 50 stores. So they have enough stores that they're able to get these like key cities and demographics. The other. So they've. They have blazers, they have jackets, they like skirts that you could probably even get away with in various looks. They've also dressed. Please don't ask me to talk about NFL but Joe Burrows.
- [29:40]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, that's so funny.
- [29:41]
Sarah Shapiro
Players.
- [29:42]
Lauren Sherman
So that's so funny. Every time I go on the Powers the Bee, Peter Hamby brings up Joe Burrows. If you listen to. I was on about a week and a half ago and we discussed Joe Burrows. I only know about Joe Burrows pretty much because of Peter Hamby.
- [30:00]
Sarah Shapiro
Peter Hamby, yes. So he, I believe he's their spokesperson. So. And has an arrangement with them. So he has worn Aloe yoga. So I think that's, you know, when you think of the tunnel fits or a little bit more, that might be a brand that you would see popping up as a blazer. And I think they are.
- [30:22]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, I remember this. Didn't you. Didn't we like use a photo of him and Alo As a lead image when you first started for something.
- [30:30]
Sarah Shapiro
Yes. And that I believe was from sports award show. I mean, that sounds like the dumbest comment I've ever said.
- [30:39]
Lauren Sherman
I don't know what that means.
- [30:41]
Sarah Shapiro
What if he's like ESPN type awards.
- [30:44]
Lauren Sherman
Let's just tell everybody I'm wearing a shirt that says sports. And it's from Sporty and Rich that I also bought our colleague John Orand, who. Who writes our. Our sports column that everybody should read. But it's. I, you know, I do read it because he mostly writes about sports media. That's interesting. I'm. I'm interested, just not in watching sports. Anyway, back. Back to the point. Okay. But here's the thing. I think about Alo and then I want to talk about Fiori and their so sort of entrance into. To sponsoring athletes too. But I think Alo's challenge is a. That sort of aesthetic of minimalist and you're wearing your activewear as your outfit. I think that it will last a long time because activewear is comfortable, but it. And it's like very Kardashian coated. I just think that that whole, like, I think that that's on. I don't want to say on its way out in that it's gonna go away, but it's not gonna be the driver anymore. And I. And what, what Tyler Haney said about like, people don't just wear a set. I think that's true. Like when I go to work out in the Valley, it's not true. I mean, that's what people are doing. But I think generally. And it will take 10 years for that to happen. But I think they need to figure out sort of in the same way Lululemon has figured out, this is how we are. We're. This is. We're the go to for this. They need to figure out what are they the go to for and that. I think the guys who started Aloe have a blanks business that's very successful that honestly, the best T shirts I've ever owned are from. It's called Bella Bella Canvas, Bella plus Canvas or something like that. They're amazing. They're such great T shirts. And so that's what fueled the aloe business for a long time. And I. They need to use. I'm sure they used a lot of what they know from Blinks to develop this activewear brand, but they need to figure out, like, how can it. How can they keep growing in a market where, you know, something like Vuori comes in and is just so fascinating to me because it is not really aesthetically driven and is becoming more so, but is very much about comfort and just like standardization. And what do you think of. We've written about vuor. You've written about VUOR a lot. I've done it a couple of times and also did just buy a step from there because I as I've spoken about many times on this podcast. I don't want to tell a story again, but like I saw a bunch of people in these piped shorts and leggings and they were really cute. And I was like, you know what, I might as well try it. I'm not going to be embarrassed to wear this and try it and see how it feels and have been wearing it, wearing this. And the stuff is really nice. Honestly, when I look at all the different leggings I've tried and things in the last year or so, it's probably the best stuff that I've bought in terms of performance and also like it making me look good. Like, which I don't think about too much. But. But in this case I was like, oh, these are cute. They make me look cute. So I'm curious what you think about how that brand is developing.
- [34:32]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah. One of the things that I think helps set vor apart is they started with men's. And yeah, I think that if you think of like whether fashions being first or utility and the feel, I think that when it boils down to it, I think that's like an interesting characteristic of the brand. They also have really. I mean, every. I spend most of my weekends on Saturday, some sports field for my kids and all the parents. I would say at least 50% of the parents are wearing at least one item for Viori, if not a whole look.
- [35:14]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [35:15]
Sarah Shapiro
And it's just easy and comfortable. And I think that's a big reason why they're wearing it.
- [35:25]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, it was interesting. I've noticed this too. It's interesting when I go to these different workout classes, I look and see what people are wearing in Pasadena vs Studio City vs West Hollywood vs Hollywood vs wherever Echo park or Silver Lake. And I see it a lot with people in our cohort. They are like, this is comfortable. It's no nonsense. It feels very Bay Area. Like the colors. All of that stuff was interesting a couple of weeks ago, but. But they are now. Like, I went to the store in. There's a store at the. That shopping center, Sportsman's Lodge in. I believe it's also Studio City. It's in the Valley. A1 Friday a few weeks ago and. And bought the shorts because they were sold out online. And then I tried on a bunch of other stuff and I would just like so you could tell there were tourists in the store, which was interesting. I don't know who is like traveling from out of town and going to Sportsman's Lodge unless I recommend it to them because it is truly amazing. But you have to go the next time you're in L. A But it's, it feels very accessible to people in almost a way even more than Lululemon or Nike, which not, not Nike, but like it feels like it's, it's not just. It really is athleisure that performs. Yeah. So the interesting thing that happened a couple weeks ago and they have been getting more and more into like partnering with athletes and things like that. And a couple weeks ago this guy, Jack Draper, a British, a very incredibly good looking British tennis player, ended his sponsorship with Nike and is launching with Fiore, a former fashion writer who has a substack about sports broke this news. Jessica Schiffer, she has this really interesting. She's awesome. She wrote a few things for me at Business of Fashion. She is the founder of Hard Court which it doesn't seem to be a substack. It's a tennis briefing. Maybe it's on some other platform, beehive or something, I don't know. But she broke this news that this Draper guy and a friend of mine, a friend of the pod, as they say, said you could do a whole episode on where Nike tennis went wrong and then also said I do think Draper is a twit and is more unliked in the tennis world than Vuori might assume. But he does have that jaw. Look, as someone who doesn't really follow this stuff, I was like wow, that guy is very cute. But anyway, what do you think about like Vori given it's sort of. It is basically the gap for 42 year old men. So what do you think of them like trying to get into sports and partner with people in that way instead of doing like less traditional influencers?
- [38:43]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah. The other person that Fiore brought on very early on was Livy Dunn who is. She was a college gymnast and she's also an influencer and I believe her boyfriend is a football player. So they partnered with her. So right when they started doing that, college athletes could take endorsements. Vuori jumped on that and made the biggest investments. I think the other person that they did is a Manning who is the college Manning football player.
- [39:29]
Lauren Sherman
Don't there's Eli Manning and there's Peyton Manning. There's another Manning.
- [39:35]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah. Nephew.
- [39:37]
Lauren Sherman
Nephew Manning.
- [39:38]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah. College football.
- [39:42]
Lauren Sherman
Arch Manning or Hyde Manning?
- [39:44]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah. No, Arch.
- [39:45]
Lauren Sherman
I'm pretty sure it's Cooper Manning. All I have to say is one of my biggest pet peeves is when people act like they know a lot about sports and they don't. This is a safe space where if you don't know a lot about sports, it's fine. It drives me nuts when people are like, yeah, I'm so into this. I'm like, you don't care about this. Quit acting like you watch these. These things. The only thing I care about is sports competitions like fantasy football and the final four, which I do participate.
- [40:15]
Sarah Shapiro
You do great in the in the puck team ranking.
- [40:18]
Lauren Sherman
I almost won the final Four, the end.
- [40:21]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah, you did great. I know the rules of the game. I can follow along. I do not pay attention to the players. And I feel bad about that, but okay, so Arch Manning was signed by Fiore. So this is a college player. But Manning clearly has a big name in sports. And so Vuory, while they aren't investing maybe in some of the caliber that Nike is, they are definitely either. You know, the Nike took a chance on Michael Jordan when he was very early in his career. So Fury maybe is looking either at that playbook or they're saying, our customer we want to get is also more college students. And maybe by investing in the college athletes and the influencer market and paying attention to that, that's the other thing. I think that Fiore's doing really well. And also if you think of like outdoor voices, how they did the doing things. So it was always just get out there and be active.
- [41:24]
Lauren Sherman
You don't.
- [41:24]
Sarah Shapiro
Like Nike was like adrenaline rush. Like you have to play to win.
- [41:29]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [41:30]
Sarah Shapiro
Vuorie, I think is also like that. They're like, great. You're moving your body. Good for you. You're staying healthy. You're Netflix and chill on the couch. Great. We want you to be comfortable in our dream knit. I mean, that's the other thing. Dream knit. Maybe you can say you're dreaming of winning a medal, but dream knit, to me, sleep, it's not as much like hardcore getting that, you know, the fastest mile you can.
- [41:52]
Lauren Sherman
I can't imagine running in that. It's so gross. I don't understand personally. Like, it's not that. That maybe that's it. It's. That's a little mean, but I just don't understand how people wear that every single day. Like, it just it gives me the creeps. Like, I. I love these shorts I bought that are very soft and very compressed. And then I got a thin, like, tank top that I love. It fits really well. The fit is really good. Like, that's the interesting thing. But I don't understand how you could get up and, like, slide those on your body every day.
- [42:30]
Sarah Shapiro
The other category within Athleisure that I'm sure is conversations in the merchandising and buying office is like, what are your dog walking pants? Like, what are the pants that you're throwing on to take a walk after dinner? Running out the door because you haven't gotten dressed yet but need to take the dog on a walk. And I think Fiore also very much fits that category for sure.
- [42:54]
Lauren Sherman
So let's talk a little bit about Alter Voices. I am. I keep teasing this. I do really want to have Tyler Haney on. I think the best way to do it is to wait until she has, like, the next drop of product and see how it's going. But look like looking back on the launch, it's been interesting. We've said everything. It's not for the aging millennials that Alter Voices was for. It's for a younger customer. I think Tyler has a really good sense of what people want to wear. I wish that they had done a few things a little less ballsy. Like, I wish she had made the shorts that she embroidered outdoor door Voices very on the tramp stamp on the back. I wish she had just made those plain also, because I would have bought them. And I know that I'm not the person she's trying to capture, but I think there is probably, like, a basic B girl who is 25 who feels similarly or is, like, a little scared to buy the tramp stamp ones to start. They're very daring. And so I hope that as they. And I think the sort of basics, the, like, core line that she clearly tweaked as well is supposed to serve that. But I want the new thing. I want the bubble wrap fabric. And so I hope that they start to provide a little bit more variety. But what did you think looking at it? And what do you. Do you think she hit something? Do you think it was off the mark? Like, what was your first reaction?
- [44:43]
Sarah Shapiro
My first reaction is I'm trying to think of all the Venn diagrams and who this customer is. So she mentioned a lot. It's in joggy green, which, yeah, I am, you know, deep into the retail world, so I know that joggy is her sports drink beverage. Company, But I was trying to think like, okay, am I just not seeing it enough? Because I'm not the demographic, but I went online and maybe you could say that customer is not an Instagram customer, but I think they have like 11,000 followers and not huge in TikTok. So they're really trying to capture this Joggy Tyb Outdoor Voices customer and be like, this is all one world. But I don't know if that world is big enough yet. Yeah, so that's the one concern I have there. The other thought that I'm trying to figure out is, of course, because I'm also this older millennial Gen X person. Thinking through, okay, I see that what they called in the Instagram live the Chicago tramp stamp, but the tramp stamp logo. So that takes me back to Juicy Couture days and pink. And I'm. I know that that time period of clothing is very, you know, nostalgic and people are wanting to wear it again, but I don't see that much of that particular look. Sure, we see the white T shirt underneath the spaghetti strap sundress or something. You know, we're calling more to that. But I don't see that specific tramp stamp design. So I don't know who the tramp stamp customer is anymore. Which is such a statement.
- [46:22]
Lauren Sherman
Well, yeah, I mean, I think this is a question I had. Was, is she behind or is she ahead? And so I think she might be a little ahead on that. I see that. I see that. I feel it coming back. Like the fact that everybody skims is doing this collegiate collection that feels very pink coated. That whole era is, you know, I think that she's right on that. My sort of apprehension on it was it felt very like Marc Jacobs heaven vibe, like the vintage dime square vibe that was popular probably two years ago in New York. And so maybe in the broader country, that look is only now sort of coming through. But I think trends move much more quickly in the culture today than they did 20 years ago. So I want to trust that she. I do think whatever you want to say about Tyler Haney, she really does have a good sense of this kind of stuff. Like, she knows. She just knows. That's. That's why, that's why Outdoor Voice was so popular the first time around. And also the other thing to remember, I think, is that it is owned by a licensing firm. And, and I, you can see in the way it was merchandised that they were like, we're good. They clearly made a lot of the product because nothing is Sold out, which I. Or. Or ver. I don't know. I haven't looked at the dresses. I keep looking at the. The little shorts, but very little. The Gemini short is not sold out. From what I. Yeah, I went on last night was like. Like, I'm getting close. I just can't wear. I'm too. I'm. I'm 43 years old. Like, I can't wear that thing on my butt. But like, you know what? A year from now I might. That's the crazy thing. But like, I'm just looking at the doing things bra in the cool, like, swirly print. Oh, it's sold out in the medium and large, which is interesting. So she did like a sort of Missoni esque psychedelic print. Like, Missoni makes psychedelic print for the doing things bra in the joggy green, which I get. You're right. Like, that's a small. I think using the word joggy for anything is cute. So I'm fine with it. Like, But I agree that it's like, that's such a small community. Let's see if it's sold out in any other. In any of the. But yeah, so that did. I mean, that print is great. I think she's. It's gonna do well. But yeah, it's. It's interesting. I just don't think, like, how big. How big do they even want it to be? Let's see in the energy dress, the new dress, so that sold out medium through extra large in black, almost gone in extra small. Available in every color in white and available in every color in the, like, yucca multi yuka. Like, see pretty green mermaid green color.
- [49:43]
Sarah Shapiro
It's interesting exercise dress they did do in a nice extended size range from double x, double x small, to triple x large.
- [49:53]
Lauren Sherman
Oh, great.
- [49:54]
Sarah Shapiro
So they obviously also made the investment in really building out the size range there.
- [50:02]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah, I got a run. But I also like the sporty dress. But anyway, as I always compare this market to the denim market, because it's like, if you think about in the 50s, denim became popular with teenagers. The. The first era in which teenagers started to influence the culture. Young people did not influence the culture pre 1950s. 1950s. They became maybe with the flapper era a little bit. But that's when as consumers, teenagers really became a big part of culture. You start seeing teenage movies, all of that stuff. It starts in the 50s. That is when denim was incorporated into, like, real lives. It wasn't just a worker's fabric. And, you know, you Look. It took 30 years for it to become something that people wear every day. It took 50 years for it to become something that people consider almost dressy. And activewear is a similar, it's a similar category. And, and it does become a thing where you just did a big story on the denim market and in the premium denim market. What's happening there? What do you think happens next for activewear, especially in the context of how the denim market evolved over the last 70 years?
- [51:26]
Sarah Shapiro
So I definitely. And we didn't get into all the niche brands, but that's the other part that I think is really interesting right now. The, you know, sports, Spence, the horse sport, literary sport also there's, I mean, there's so many different niche. And while I don't love using the word community, but like if you're diving in deep into a sport like pickleball, paddle, like all of these other areas, I think that is also influencing this activewear. So maybe we're not talking about the next billion dollar brands, but the next, you know, 10 to $20 million brands. I think there'll be more of that sprouting up. And I also think there's been a lot of interest in vintage looks. I mean, especially we have the next Olympics in LA in is it 2028?
- [52:22]
Lauren Sherman
Yeah.
- [52:22]
Sarah Shapiro
So I think that's going to be really exciting to see what brands are, you know, setting themselves up to play there. And, you know, we saw Ralph Lauren continuing to do really well with Wimbledon, even just from the sidelines. So I think there's a lot of interesting things. Volleyball, we've been talking about the growing that sport. I mean, that's major here in the Bay Area with so many kids, especially young girls playing. And I think it'll be interesting to see, you know, that look is very much a T shirt with bike shorts. So are we gonna see like more of that look proliferating out?
- [53:01]
Lauren Sherman
That's my favorite look is it is a T shirt, bike shorts, Daily drills you mentioned. Tell me about it really briefly. I had never heard of this brand.
- [53:11]
Sarah Shapiro
So daily drills. I, I, in years past, I have seen a ton of rush talk, which is sorority rush, especially at sc, scc, sto schools like Alabama going on right now. So every day these young girls, young women are posting their looks online. And I have not seen as many videos this year, but I have seen quite a few of people wearing these daily drills outfits. So for some of the sorority rush, you wear a more athleisure look. So they're wearing it with, they're showing off their ons, maybe Golden Goose Hokas. And then up top, I kept seeing these super baggy, almost like boxer style shorts that have like a very big logo at the waistband that says Daily Drills. And some skirts like that. And when I see two girls together doing this outfit of the day, one in an all yellow, excuse me, Daily Drills look, and the other in an all like green Daily Drills look, I'm like, this is a thing. So of course I started looking in on this brand.
- [54:16]
Lauren Sherman
But it reminds me of that brand that I think you wrote about when you first started. That was. Or maybe I wrote about it before, but it's very U coded. That was popular for a while. That was kind of the college sweatshirt thing.
- [54:33]
Sarah Shapiro
Oh, there's park. There's pink palm puff. What are some of the other ones?
- [54:40]
Lauren Sherman
No, neither of the. I don't remember it. No one talks about this brand anymore, so who knows what happened with it. The thing is like, this stuff doesn't fit. I'm looking at the model. The models are insanely hot. The, the, the active. Like it fully does not fit these models. And they're, they have, you know, conventionally perfect bodies. So I don't. Whatever. I mean, you're. When you're 19 years old, who cares? I guess. But anyway, best of luck to Daily Drills. I hope that I like these little striped sweatsuit outfits that they have. Sorry, I gotta run. But thanks for, for giving us the lowdown on what's happening in active wear. And I'm sure we'll chat again soon.
- [55:25]
Sarah Shapiro
Yeah, this is fun. Thanks. Thanks.
- [55:29]
Lauren Sherman
Fashion People is a presentation of Odyssey in partnership with Puck. This this show was produced and edited by Molly Nugent. Special thanks to our executive producers, Puck co founder John Kelly, executive editor Ben Landy and director of editorial operations, Gabby Grossman. An additional thanks to the team at Odyssey, JD Crowley, Jenna Weiss Berman and Bob Tabador.
- [55:55]
Verizon Announcer
Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze. Talk about refreshing. You know what else is refreshing this summer? A brand new phone with Verizon.
- [56:03]
Lauren Sherman
Yup.
- [56:04]
Verizon Announcer
Get a new phone on any plan with select phone. Trade in and MyPlan and lock down a low price for three years on any plan with MyPlan. This is a deal for everyone, whether you're a new or existing customer. Swing by Verizon today for our best phone deals. 3 year price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate only. Additional terms and conditions apply for all offers.