Ask the Expert: Dr Dhaval G. Bhanusali

Summary

Fat Mascara: Ask the Expert with Dr. Dhaval G. Bhanusali
Aired April 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Jessica Matlin introduces the premiere of a new “Ask the Expert” franchise, fielding listener-submitted beauty questions to Dr. Dhaval G. Bhanusali—a respected and board-certified NYC dermatologist known for his scientific approach and collaborations with Martha Stewart (ELM Biosciences) and Hailey Bieber (Rhode). The discussion weaves through trending topics in skincare, the science behind treatment choices, and the emotional dimension of aesthetic routines. Dr. Bhanusali shares insights with humility, humor, and a distinctly no-nonsense, evidence-driven perspective.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Bhanusali’s Journey into Dermatology

• Dr. Bhanusali didn’t initially intend to go into dermatology (05:19). Drawn by the visual, tangible results in his patients, he found meaning in the field’s blend of artistry and science:
  • “Building art into science...there is a little bit of that color that goes into it. And I think with beauty, a lot of it's very similar.” [05:19]

2. Collaborating with Martha Stewart & Hailey Bieber

• Shared how his work with Martha Stewart emerged organically, developing innovative antioxidant serums through years of scientific tinkering and testing (09:54–11:02).
  • Discussed the personal dimension of working with Martha, appreciating her curiosity, honesty, and iconic status:
    • “She’s truly iconic...the road she paved for everyone.” [09:23]
• On not launching a personal brand and staying “behind the lens” in product development (13:01):
  • “My job is always to be science, and that's it.”

3. Listener Q&A: Dermatology Myths, Treatments & Regimens

A. Eye Area Concerns

• Preventing and Treating Eye Bags/Crow’s Feet (13:25–14:40)
  • Sleep first, then retinoids: “If I can go back in time when I was 18, I'd start a retinoid then and use it every single day.” [14:04]
  • Tretinoin and other prescription retinoids helpful but need to be tailored to sensitivity (14:40).
  • ROC and ELM Biosciences mentioned for gentle formulations.

B. Korean Skincare: Hype vs. Truth (15:14–16:45)

• Korean skincare is primarily about barrier repair and gentle ingredients:
  • “They are more about nourishing the skin as opposed to ripping it to shreds.”
• The benefit is the philosophy, not necessarily the country of origin.

C. Most Commonly Misused Product (16:45–17:30)

• Vitamin C can be irritating, especially in its pure/THD forms.
• Toners are often unnecessary for most beyond teenage oily skin.
  • “Your skin does [pH] naturally after a few seconds.”

D. Regimen Advice for Dry Skin (17:30–18:46)

• Thicker creams and limiting use of acids.
• Humidifiers make a real difference in dry climates.
• Sleep masks and, for some, gentle oils like Argan as the final PM step.

E. Tools & Devices: Face Massage, Gua Sha (19:55–22:20)

• Gua sha and facial massage can help with temporary fluid redistribution, but not with long-term changes.
  • “They're not long term sustainable options, but they are ones that if you're in a pinch, you have to go to a big event...they do help.” [20:42]
  • Emphatic about the psychological/cultural value: “There’s something beautiful about...taking a few moments for yourself and reflecting.”

F. Red Light Therapy Devices (23:58–25:20)

• Initially skeptical, Dr. Bhanusali found Therabody’s device credible due to robust studies.
  • “I always request the science before recommending it.” [24:03]
• Effective as a complement, not a substitute for other treatments.

G. Lasers: What’s Best and How Results Differ

• Laser Genesis for 20s (maintenance), Clear + Brilliant for 30s, Fraxel/Halo for 40s, and Erbium lasers for 50+ (25:29–26:32).
• The practitioner’s skill profoundly affects results; settings and approach must be tailored case-by-case (26:44–28:27).
  • “Who does your treatments makes all the difference...we live in a world now where people are doing weekend trainings and they don't understand the physics.”

H. Acne Scarring (28:48–30:06)

• Retinoids remain the best topical option.
• For deep scars: erbium/fractional lasers, TCA Cross for ice pick scarring.
  • “Think of it this way...if you're working out, you can go to the gym (lasers), but if you don't have a good nutrition plan (skincare), you're going to be doing a lot of work for not that much.”

I. Skin Picking

• Multi-pronged approach with behavioral interventions and sometimes placebo/topical distraction techniques (31:24).
  • “You broke the cycle yourself. I was like, I just played a small part of it. You’re good.”

J. Supplements: Worth It?

• Cautious but sees value in certain ingredients:
  • Polypodium leucotomos: for additional (not replacement) photoprotection ([32:00]).
  • Vitamin D: crucial for hair loss; recommends 2,500–5,000 IU/day but check with a doctor.
  • Astaxanthin: dermatologist-approved antioxidant ([33:32]).
• Advocates for consolidated, physician-backed supplement blends.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the patient experience and celebrity clients:
  “Every time I walk in, I'm blown away by the people that are in there. They're people that I have admired growing up on the screens...it's very humbling to be trusted by so many people.” [07:27]

• On the deep psychology of beauty:
  “People love to express themselves through different mediums. It's fun to play a small part in something like that and to see your art out in the world.” [05:19]

• On the over-promise of tools/supplements:
  “If it's end all be all—I don't think there's anything that's end all be all but I think part of the overall regimen it's a great option.” [25:20]

• On the practitioner’s importance:
  “Fraxel is not a Fraxel is not a fraxel. It's not like you're taking a product like a can of Coke.” [28:27]

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Lightning Round: Dr. Bhanusali’s “Fat Mascara Five” (33:59–39:59)

• First loved product: Neutrogena moisturizer ([34:12]).
• Cooking ambitions: Hopes to learn one new recipe a month; is vegetarian ([35:53]).
• Saturday at noon: Post-run, time with friends/family, or brunch ([36:35]).
• Favorite restaurant: Recently opened Automat in Mayfair, London ([37:06]).
• Biggest lessons from working with Martha Stewart and Hailey Bieber:
  “I don’t think people really appreciate how smart all of these people are…It’s a privilege to learn from such amazing humans.” [37:59]
• Fun fact: Most recent iPhone note was a recipe ([38:40]).
• Entertaining Martha Stewart:
  “She walked around, didn’t say a word for a good five minutes. I was terrified. And then she finally sat down. She’s like, ‘It’s very nice. Very nicely done.’” [39:15]

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• [05:19] – Dr. Bhanusali’s journey, science and art in dermatology
• [09:54] – Birth of ELM Biosciences with Martha Stewart
• [13:25] – Eye bag advice and retinoids
• [15:35] – Philosophy behind Korean skincare
• [16:49] – Product misuse: Vitamin C & toners
• [19:55] – Efficacy of gua sha and face massage
• [23:58] – Science-backed red light therapy
• [25:29] – Laser recommendations by age
• [28:48] – Acne scarring treatments
• [30:06] – Addressing skin picking behaviorally
• [31:50] – Supplement science: what’s worth it
• [33:59] – Lightning round: beauty favorites, restaurants, and life lessons

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Episode Takeaways

• Prevention and foundation—retinoids, gentle products, sun protection—trump quick fixes.
• Science (not marketing) should guide choices in skincare and treatments.
• No device, supplement, or routine is a silver bullet; holistic, consistent care works best.
• The experience and expertise of your practitioner is as important as the treatment itself.

Closing Thought:
Dr. Bhanusali’s humility and evidence-based wisdom remind listeners that true skin health is a balance of prevention, personalization, and authenticity—“science always wins.”

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For more on products discussed, visit Fat Mascara on Shop My Shelf or reach out at [e-mail].

Transcript

[Jessica Matlin]

This episode of Fat Mascara is presented by Milani Cosmetics, a brand who believes that what's inside matters.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Fat Mascara. Okay, I hope you've been enjoying the episodes because I've loved creating them for you. Now write me. Tell me what you think, open to feedback, and if you needed somebody to bust open to the door, Kat wrote me. Who is Kat? She is one of our great listeners. I've never heard from you, Kat before, but apparently you're a listener. Thank you. And she had some feedback about Andrea Laventhal's episode. So in Andrea Laventhal's episode, that was our newsroom episode where I bring in a journalist, we shoot the breeze, we cover hot topics. But one topic that was especially hot for Kat was the mommy makeover topic. Kat, who works in aesthetics so she knows what she's talking about, said, look, let's be real mommy makeovers. They exist, and there's tons of women who do them. But there are a lot of women who seek treatments not just after motherhood, but after lots of moments in their life, like, pivotal, big moments. So, I mean, I'm a mom, but I'm the first to tell you. Like, there are.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Maybe not the first to tell you,

[Jessica Matlin]

but there are loads of moments in a woman's life that are pivotal, that are earth shifting and make you want to revisit who you are. They're just momentous. And what aesthetic treatments or what moments would make you look in the mirror and think it's time to make a change? So she sees lots of women who are looking at themselves with those new lenses. And maybe we can expand that conversation around makeovers and also include them. So I would love to hear from any listeners who have looked at themselves in the mirror like that and and made some sort of change to their appearance. What was the driving force? What was the impetus? What was happening in your life? Was it a new job, divorce? Some sort of spiritual awakening? I don't know. Was it entering a new decade? Was it saying goodbye to something? I don't know, but I'm really curious. Cause I thought that was a great point. We always talk about these big moments for aesthetic changes, really around this, like, cutesy, pootsy name, mommy makeover. But what else is happening out there? And I'm sure once we find out, it might get rebranded something.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

So let me know.

[Jessica Matlin]

But thank you so much, Kat, and please keep the conversation going. Email me jessatmascara.com okay, now, on the same aesthetics tip, I want to introduce you to our new Franchise Ask the experts. Now, really this just wrote itself because so many of you DM me and email me or just say, hey, can you ask this? I think you know this person, you've had them on the show or I see you're in the loop with them. Can you ask this person this or do you know this? I just, I want it all collated and put in one place. So I'm gonna neatly aggregate all of your questions and I'll give you guys a heads up too. When I have somebody amazing coming on the show, we're gonna tidily put it all together in a list and we're going to ask the most amazing experts on the planet your most burning beauty cues. I did just that for Dr. Manusali. Who is he? He is a board certified dermatologist based in New York City. If he's good enough for Martha Stewart and Hailey Bieber, he's certainly good enough for me.

That's right.

He is the dermatologist for Rhode and he co founded ELM Biosciences with Martha Stewart. And that is a very hot new brand. The past six months it launched. So he's chief medical officer too. He's global innovation partner for Kenview Neutrogena. He's worked with basically every major brand

[Jennifer Goldstein]

that you can think of.

[Jessica Matlin]

And what I should have asked him, honestly, the one question that I'm kicking myself is what was it like to be accepted into medical school at age 17? So we have a complete star with us. A complete prodigy. Welcome to the show, Dr. Bhattasali.

Doctor B. I can call you Dr. B, right?

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I've heard other people call you Dr. B. Okay. So Dr. B, I am psyched that you're here for our first ever Ask an Expert episode. So Ask an Expert. I thought about doing this as like a little mini segment, but we get so many questions, whether it's through dm, our private Facebook group, Raising a Wand, people writing in infoatmascara, and then just people who I meet just in conversation. I'm sure if you're listening, you're obviously interested in beauty. You have your own questions and you're talking about them with your friends. There's just a lot of, even if you're really plugged into beauty, there's a lot that we don't know. There's a lot I don't know. I never say I'm like a beauty expert. Like I know everything. I'm just, I love asking questions and I'll find the answer for you. So I wanted to devote an entire episode franchise to this. And you are our first premiere. Ask an expert. But before we get into the question questions that came in for you, I want to know a little bit more

[Jessica Matlin]

about you, the person.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

What drew you into beauty. How did you find yourself in this career?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Well, first, an honor. It's a long time coming, and it's a pleasure to speak with you today. It's a good question. A bit by accident. I was really interested in research when I was a medical student. Derm wasn't my first interest. I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon like my father. But there was something incredible about dermatology, where the work you do, you can see the results. Right. And it's kind of a fascinating thought process. But so many times you can do so many things for people, they'll never realize that you'll never see it. But with this, it was almost immediate. And so I initially, a lot of my work early on was on scar work. It still is. I do a ton of scar cases. Hair. And then beauty kind of became the creative outpost of a lot of what I do. I think, you know, when you look at formulations, for example, it's like cooking, right. It's like putting a recipe together, different ingredients. A pinch of salt is the same as putting a pinch of a peptide or some other ingredient and getting a robust result. Right. And I think there's something beautiful about building art into science. Cause not everything is black and white. There is a little bit of that color that goes into it. And I think with beauty, a lot of it's very similar. I mean, you look at makeup, it's an artistic expression. Right. But then I look at the science. You want to make sure the products are good for you. The ingredients are great, but a lot of it is cultural. People love to express themselves through different mediums. It's fun to play a small part in something like that and to see your art out in the world.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Yeah. And it is emotional, and it makes people feel a certain way. They walk differently, they carry themselves differently. They feel a connection to the product. Why do I have 50 moisturizers? I don't know. Each one makes me feel a little bit differently. And, yeah, when I go to a dermatologist, it's a little bit different than if I'm going to the gastro. No shade to my gastro. But it's a different experience. And I love what you're saying about there's a real before and after. You can see the results now. You also have worked with a lot of really high profile brands. You want to, you want to brag a little bit.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I always feel a little bit awkward talking about myself.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Well, I can see you're very like soft spoken. You're not, you're not a bragger. But I'm sure that's probably why some of the people are attracted to working with you. But tell us, who have you worked with?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So I've been lucky enough I worked with Hailey Bieber on road and I still work with them to this day. Martha Stewart with Elm Biosciences, which we launched I think about five, six months ago now. I've been very fortunate. I've done a few different tech companies want to run pharma. It was like a pharma tech company to help improve access to medications. We had a B2B. We have a B2B tech company to help dermatologists distribute skincare products within offices. But I'm lucky, I think in our office. The story I always tell is when I started my office about six and a half years ago now, I couldn't beg anybody to come in. I was just trying to open an office. Nobody knew who I was. I was sending or giving homemade cookies to all the doormen here in New York City. And, and now every time I walk in, I'm blown away by the people that are in there. They're people that I have admired growing up on the screens, like so many things. And it's very humbling to be trusted by so many people. It's not something that I will ever quite maybe grasp, but it's certainly a privilege.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Did you watch the Martha Stewart documentary?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I did, yeah.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

How did that line up with your experience with her? I don't think she liked it.

[Jessica Matlin]

Right.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So ironically, right after the documentary was an after party, she came up to me, I think, first of anybody, and she's like, what did you think? And I'm like, why are you asking me? There's a million people here. And she's like, you're the only person who's, who's honest with me. And I just told her it humanized her in a beautiful way. And I think what happens is, especially with celebrity, we get to meet celebrities in a different way. We get to meet them honest, authentic, vulnerable. And those I think are the best ways of meeting them. They're incredible human beings. Right. What is a celebrity? Celebrity is just like you and I and with somebody like Martha, she's truly iconic. I mean, I think she's gone beyond celebrities. She's really an icon of icons and I think people got to really see what she's gone through and what made her human in a way that nobody had previously seen it with her. Like, she's one of my closest friends. We've known each other for, I don't know, probably 10 years now, something like that. She's been a patient for many years, a dear friend. You know, she checked on me during COVID and all different things that were happening as a friend, making sure I was okay. I check on her again. I think with somebody like her, when we reflect on her career, I don't think we'll fully appreciate all the incredible things she did and the road she paved for everyone.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

When you think about your collaboration with her, what moment stands out that feels like this is the summation of your relationship with her, your working relationship with her?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Well, we've been working on it for many years. Kind of not. Like I said, we didn't even know what we were going to make. I just started working on products. I love to create different ingredient profiles and textures and things like that. And I remember one day I just called her, and I was like, hey, I sent you over something a few weeks ago. What did you think? You know, I had sent her over God knows how many products over the years.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Oh, so there wasn't like an end goal. This isn't like, this is the brand. Here's the branding. It launches, you know.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

No. So it wasn't like, at first we thought about doing something. Then again, Covid hit, and, you know, she was busy with so many things. I got busy with a few different projects, but we just kind of kept playing scientist. And I gave her something that I was really proud of. I'd gone through so many different iterations and different things. And, you know, it's the beauty of being a scientist. You're always kind of tinkering and experimenting. And she called or I called her, and I was just checking in. I was like, what did you think of that? And she was just like, I don't know what this is, but this is the most incredible thing I've ever used. I sent her some more, kind of a little bit more tinkering here and there. And she's like, this must go to the world. People must experience this. That's when it kind of became real, when we were like. We had this moment where, like, it's something.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Which is the skew that you're talking about, because the serum.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Yeah, so the serum. Just to give a quick background on it. So the idea was very truthful. Antioxidants tend to be, you know, I always look at it, it's like milk, right? You grew up drinking milk and everybody told you if you don't drink milk you're going to break all your bones. Antioxidants, everybody use vitamin C for a long period of time. And what happened is people didn't realize that vitamin C can be actually super inflammatory. The thd, which is or l ascorbic acid, excuse me, is the, is the most potent form. Most people can't tolerate it. Then you thda which is better for sensitive skin. There's more data and research coming out that that's also not really that tolerated well. And so we looked at it. Antioxidant, their job is to protect you from the day to day everything. And if you can't tolerate it, how can you use it? Including myself, I couldn't tolerate most of them. So we started playing and in my office we do lots of research studies, we work with big brands, small brands, ingredient supplier to scientists, all sorts of different levels of innovation. And something had come across my desk, I think a year or two years before we had been working on there was a novel antioxidant and, and then I started combining it with different ingredients and how do I get a synergistic one plus one equals three effect? And we got to this point where it became very evident that there was something real there. And I'm a science guy. Marketing is not my forte. I'm not very, I'm not very good at it. To your point, I'm I guess a bit soft spoken when it comes to talking about these kind of things because it's not my natural realm. But I'm very passionate about science. I can talk about science all day. I mean I've lectured on podiums in front of dermatologists. That's my happy place.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

In my opinion, it's kind of good that you're not trying to do both because one would take away from the other and it would make the other one feel a little bit more inauthentic. Do you know what I mean? So Martha's got people to do the other bit, you know. Well, it's clearly been a successful partnership and you seem to have a really great balance between the two. Congratulations on the success and I'm sure this will not be the last we hear of successful partnerships with you. And I mean, would you start your own line?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

No, no, I enjoy collaborative processes. You know, again, I always want to be the scientist. I think, whether it's road, whether it's elm I think for me, my job is always to be science, and that's it. And I try my best to support wherever we're building, but I never want to be, I think, too far in front of the lens.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Let's get to our questions. All right. I knew we would have a bunch about eyes. Do you find that people are really concerned about their eyes when they come to you?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I think because of social media, we start concentrating on certain things, and that's probably the first indicator as we age that we're not as young as we think we are. And so a lot of people come in for eye bags, dark circles. And I always tell people, first and foremost, make sure you get some sleep.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Oh, that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny you said eye bags, and also, I didn't think I had crow's feet. I was like. I was like, I'm doing okay. And then I'm thinking, what am I talking about? I saw myself the other day. They're there.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

That means you smile a lot. It's a good thing.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I promise. I kind of do. All right, so eye bags. First question. Is there anything you can do to slow down their appearance when you know you're prone to have them?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So number one thing every dermatologist recommends on Earth is a retinoid. Retinoids are fantastic for wrinkles, texture, tone, pores, dark spots, acne. I would use a retinoid. If I can go back in time when I was 18, I'd start a retinoid then and use it every single day or every. Every night from there on. But that's the best thing you can do immediately. And that'll stimulate some collagen so that the area there will feel. The collagen breaks down over time, which causes either hollowness or the bags because there's a lack of support and you might have. The infrastructure might not be as stable. And so the idea becomes build that infrastructure first and foremost, and a retinoid is the best option.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Do you have a favorite retinoid or is it just retinoids or retinoids? Retinoid.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

It depends. So with elm, for example, we used. We. We worked on this, like, new fourth generation retinoid that's specifically for sensitive sk. But inevitably, there's a lot of different options. I think Roc has really good eye cream that I like a lot. There's different brands of different retinoids. Whatever one you tolerate, I'm happy with. Specifically under the eye. General retinoids, a little bit different. You know, I mentioned we worked on one for elm. But there is prescription ones, Tretinoin being the prescription most common one all the way to Tazerac. Although it's a little bit too strong for on the eye area.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Okay, everyone is saying this. So many, everyone is hyping Korean skincare. But what is actually so good about it? I thought that was a really honest question because I have friends being like, I want Korean skincare. Which one's the best? It's such a broad question. Or like I only want, I only use Korean skincare now. But what is so great about Korean skincare?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Let's take a step back if you think about trends. So when we were maybe like 10 years ago, everybody was exfoliating themselves to death and they were using this acid and that acid and everything. And I think what happened is the pendulum swung back and really what Korean skincare is, is just really looking at gentle ingredients and more nurturing skin barrier. Right? Very simply put, think about all the ingredients are softer. There are more essences, milks, things like that, which really are more about nourishing the skin as opposed to again ripping it to shreds. And you know, people wanted to feel tight and almost like burning sensation previously and I think now we've all realized it's not really good for your skin barrier. There's so many conditions like rosacea that occur because you have a compromised skin barrier. Same with like a perioral dermatitis, which is really common. It's a lot of times your skin barrier is impaired. So if you keep adding kind of caustic ingredients, you're just going to worsen it. So the idea with Korean skin care is more just utilizing softer, calming anti inflammatories. That's what us derms love. And so we're not against it by any means. I think it's just that a lot of it is marketing still. So you can have great ingredients in the US as well and in products. But I just think the philosophy though is very sound.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

What is the one product that most people are using incorrectly?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So you know, I mentioned Vitamin C. That's always the elephant in the room with all my patients, especially those with rosacea or periodal dermatitis. I think toners also people, they used to use them to balance your PH after cleansing, but your skin does that naturally after a few seconds. They used to be alcohol based so they'd be kind of drying you out. You don't really need that unless you're maybe an 18 year old oily acne child. But otherwise I like more Again, calming essences, anti inflammatories, things like that. So picking which ingredients you use for your skin is probably the most important thing. And what we do when you come to our office, let's say whatever condition, we do a prescription regimen, but also an over the counter regimen. Because a lot of times if I do this, it still won't get better if this is not maximized.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Okay, that's a really nice segue to our next question. The at home regimen. I totally relate to this. As I'm getting older, my dry skin is getting drier. I'm using toner, serum, moisturizer. What else can I possibly do without examining the person?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Yeah, without examining. No. So I think a lot of it is just understanding your skin type. You know, I do love thicker, richer creams, especially in the wintertime. I mean, New York, New Jersey, tri state area has been brutal. This, I think the whole country's been brutal this winter. And using richer creams are certainly helpful. I think the idea of again, not using your acids as often, maybe once a week max in the wintertime, using more calming ingredients, I think using a humidifier, so simple, but it actually, you know, it works. We recommend in the office all the time. It doesn't matter to me which one you get. Just get one that really does help your skin. And then again, I think utilizing something right before you go to bed, most people forget about that, but think of it as like a sleep mask. It actually does help. I do use, I do recommend oils from time to time. I'm not a big oil guy because a lot of them cause more harm than good, but something like Argan oil is a great last step before you go to bed. If you have retinoid dermatitis or you're not tolerating other actives very well.

[Jessica Matlin]

This episode is brought to you by Milani Fat Mascara created a totally new conversation in beauty, one that goes beyond the surface to get to know our guests on a deeper level. That's why for our 10th anniversary, I'm so proud to partner with Milani, a brand who believes that what's inside matters. Case in point, Milani just reformulated their iconic bake collection to make it even more luxurious for their customers. Try it and you will feel the upgrade I did. The texture is so smooth, the powder is so fine, you can sweep on layers and layers for weightless, luminous color. They've upgraded their best selling bake blush formula, added four new shades, and launched new bronzer and highlighter formulas. Four new shades each always Inclusive Milani has a wide range of shades for

[Jennifer Goldstein]

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[Jessica Matlin]

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[Jennifer Goldstein]

All right, the next one is we're talking about feels like straight from social can facial massage and using a gua sha actually do something about the nasolabial folds or keep them from getting any deeper? I'm someone. I swear I didn't write this question, but that's my big problem. I have a ring light on me so they're not as dramatic. But this is from the nose to the corners of the mouth is definitely where like that's my hotspot for aging. I get served. I must have googled it or something once, but I get served lots of natural facelift face yoga. Guashed the lines away. What. What can actually happen?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I got yelled at online at one point because I didn't forget what outlet it was. But they asked me if I thought it worked and I said no. And the community was not happy. But you know, my whole thing.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

The community.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

But you know, my whole theory is that it's like lymphatic massages. They definitely help, but it's short term. Right. If you do it every single day, it'll look good every day, but you have to do it every. They're not long term sustainable options, but they are ones that if you're in a pinch, you have to go to a big event, you have to do something like that. They do help. I mean, I'm never going to say they don't. It does. I mean you have fluid baseline in your skin. If you can manipulate that fluid to a different area, it helps. I also think, and this is me just being not a scientist for a second, but a human being. I think there's something beautiful about culture and taking a few moments for yourself and reflecting.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh totally.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Like it's just like with gua sha, like I understand the cultural relevance. It's like when my mom used to put coconut oil in my hair when I was little. It didn't do much for my hair and probably worsened, to be honest with you, because coconut Oil is not great for your hair, but it was a moment with my mother and I that still remember to this day. So, you know, I think there's something beautiful about incorporating different aspects of personal things into your daily regimen. Just for you. I think these things are fine so long as you don't market them as the end all, be all. This is very simple. We get nasolabial folds, we get wrinkles. We get all these things because our collagen breaks down. You wear sunscreen to prevent that collagen breakdown. To give you better protection, use retinoids to stimulate collagen. When they do more interventional kind of things like a filler, you're really just raising this up so that you get better scaffolding so you have less dropping over here.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I just lifted my cheek up three inches. They're gone.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

There you go. So there you go, filler, filler, filler, in a second. But there are ways of solving it. But, you know, again, every doctor will tell you the best way to treat anything is to prevent it from happening or at least slow down the process. And that's where, like, infrastructure of your skincare routine is really important.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I just realized it's not the googling that keeping those videos on my screen. It's because I find them so hypnotic and so gorgeous to watch somebody massage their face. And it kind of. It's like the asmr. Like, I just like watching it. It sounds freaky, but like. No, it's really.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

No, but the, the retinoids, I'm telling you, is the single, like every. I mean, small, quick side story is Martha hated retinoids for a long time. She wouldn't. She didn't tolerate them. She hated dry skin. She didn't want them. So kind of why we did that night cream the way we did it, as actoin. It's a very hydrating formula, which doesn't make sense for retinoid because they tend to dry you out. So the challenge for me is like, can I add this active that I know works, and then support it with an ingredient profile that actually makes you feel more hydrated. And that was, it was, it was kind of interesting because the feedback we got from the media side journalists or consumers that we were testing with, they're like, why does my skin feel more hydrated? That's not how retinoids work. But that's a little bit of how you have to sometimes solve a problem. The joke with retinoids were if they were easy, everybody would use them. But that peeling, that redness that most people go through is why most people don't do. And they'll use everything else except for retinoid in order to get their skin better, not realizing the retinoid is the key. So I had to solve that problem.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

And that, and that's the night cream. And that's. And that's Martha approved.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Listen, it took me a while, many years to get her to approve a retinoid, but she swears by it and she uses it for her hands and her decollete. Because I think with women as they get older, the decollete neck is actually more of an indicator of aging than the rest of everything else. And so for us we had to make sure it was gentle enough for all parts of the body. And that was kind of non negotiable.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

It's like the Nora Ephron. I feel bad about my neck.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Oh yeah.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

All right. Is there a red light device that you recommend and what do you think of the category?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So I was very much skeptical. I think you've known me for a long time. I'm always very careful with what I recommend because science has to win. The one that I actually liked the most was the therabody ones specifically because they did, I think the largest study of any group. Like they did a real study and I met with them. No relationship at the time, nothing at all. And I was just like, does this work? Because I'm lucky enough to be on the award committees for so many of these publications and I feel so privileged but I have an obligation to like actually recommend things that I think work right. So I always request the science before recommending it. I need to see the scientific study. So they actually sent something over. A couple device groups did. Theirs was so robust that I was like, wow. Like that's beyond what I would have done or expected. And so that was a kind of eye opening moment for me. We have red light in our own office. It's obviously a little bit stronger. We use it post procedure. We use it for stimulating hair follicles. Do I think it's. And again end all be all? No, I think it's an incredible complement to a much larger. Whether it's an over the counter skincare regimen or hair regimen that might be prescription, I do think it works. I just think that again it depends on how they market it. If it's end all be all. I don't think there's anything that's end all be all but I think part of the overall regimen it's a great option.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Okay. Talk about in office. Is there like an all rounder laser treatment that you always go to? Like, what's your favorite in your office?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So it really depends what we've found. Again, I don't know how much you know about our office. Our office has been a bit more known for people coming and they just kind of stay looking a certain way. And that's always my goal. Right. I hate when people like, I want to look like this. I don't like to change things. My goal is to keep you going. So in your 20s. I love laser. Laser Genesis as just maintenance to help with your acne, your tone, it's very light, no downtime. In your 30s. I like the clear and brilliant. It's just something that's light. A couple days of downtime. If you have a little bit of pigment, it'll help superficial wrinkles, mild to moderate. It's really good. I transition more to Fraxel or halo when you're in your 40s. A little bit deeper wrinkles, a little bit more downtime. I think it works really well. Deeper pigment. And then I do something called erbium. Lasers in your 50s and beyond, where if I'm doing fractional, it'll just be a very intense treatment. If I'm doing a bladed treatment, I literally take off your top layer of skin. You look like a burn victim for a couple of weeks. But it looks almost like. I won't say it's a facelift because that's a whole different kind of thing, but it's substantial results. But the downtime, like you earn it and it's a. It's a very aggressive treatment. But in the right candidate, it could be life changing.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

We had a follow up question about Fraxel. This listener said that Fraxel, it had worked several times in her life, but then she's not getting the same bang for her buck. Can that happen with people?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Well, I think it depends. Right. So everything in life is user dependent. It depends on how aggressive you're going, what density you're using. You might need to increase density. I used to be a lot more aggressive, I think when I was younger, just because cowboy, they used to say just kind of go for it. I think now you have to be a little bit more careful just given how social media and everything is. But you do have to get to know your patients and figure out when you can dial up or dial down. We fortunately, unfortunately, have a lot of kind of high profile people who come in, who they have this shoot or this red carpet or this Event I can't maybe go as, as aggressive as I want to. So I have the art of all of this is figuring out how do I find the balance of results versus still meeting them where they need to be. And so that part of it is, I think again, in your 40s, up into your 50s. Fractals are incredible and even beyond. But it all depends on how aggressive you are. And that's why I really do believe, and I'll say this till my last breath, who does your treatments makes all the difference. And we live in a world now where people are doing weekend trainings and they don't understand the physics and all that kind of stuff. In our office, we all have board certified dermatologists. A lot of them are fellowship trained. It makes a difference. And I've told that when I lecture in larger groups of dermatologists, I always tell people, flex your science. At the end of the day, your credentials are real. And I think sometimes because of social media, we believe certain people are more qualified than they actually are. And it does become a bit worrisome too. And I did a lot of scar work fixing issues early in my career, so I saw more than I probably ever wanted to see. And so I always say, just be careful, do your research.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

That's interesting. So it's like every treatment is not the same. It really is about the practitioner, it's about their credentials, it's about their experience. Just to bring it back to the original question, it's like a fraxel is not a Fraxel is not a fraxel. It's not like you're taking a product like a can of Coke. A can of Coke. A can of Coke if you like.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Let's say you came to me, I might do different settings every single time, right? Depending on how your skin is that day, what was coming up. And so you dial up or down, depending on so many different circumstances. You might have a sunspot from being out in the sun all summer and I might want to concentrate on that and go a little bit stronger here or there. So I think that part, the art of all this stuff is real. I mean, it's a part of the whole picture.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

What's the best way to deal with scars left over from cystic acne?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So I'll go back to Retinoid, still the best topical on earth, whether it's over the counter or prescription. We do a lot of lasering for it. So that's why I do that erbium laser, the fractional. That one works really well. If you have deeper scars, there's something called TCA cross. Tca, we do TCA peels. It's like an acid and it's actually fascinating. What you do is you put a very concentrated amount in inside the scar. If you have an ice pick scar and it kind of sticks the walls together, then you can laser on top of it and kind of blend it a bit. But acne scars are tough. The hardest ones are those very light hills we always like to say like the feathery hills and a lot of people have it. But again, I would get on a retinoid asap. That is again the best thing you can do. Think of it this way, summarize it very fast. If you're working out, you can go to the gym. That's your laser treatments. But if you don't have a good nutrition plan, AKA like your skincare regimen a lot, you're going to be doing a lot of work for not that much. And if you can work on both of those, you get in shape and same way you'll get better results if you do both. Good prescription or over the counter skin care regimen, plus interventions as needed. I have a rule in my office. We don't do packages and stuff because you don't need 10 laser treatments or five laser, you might need one. It all depends on what the overall picture looks like. And the end result becomes more indicative of the compilation of everything.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

This one was more psychological, but I wanted to put it in just to get your take because some so much of skin can be psychological. This listener wrote in and said that

[Jessica Matlin]

her daughter Skin picks.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Do you ever have any patients who

[Jessica Matlin]

deal with skin picking and do you

[Jennifer Goldstein]

have any words of advice for them?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So we have. Look, it's a complicated situation always.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I don't expect you to sum this up in a sound bite.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

There's two things. I'll give you two quick cases. One is we worked in tandem with a psychiatrist that the patient was seeing and we kind of talked through it and we would kind of. And the patient obviously was aware and okayed it, but we would talk through like how is the patient doing on the psychiatry side, how we're doing here. A lot of times they were very strongly correlated in terms of getting better and picking less. And so a lot of it, you just have to. It's a multi pronged approach. I had a patient who couldn't stop picking their nails and I remember I told him, here's a treatment for it. And it was a mupericin mupirocin doesn't treat nail regrowth at all. Zero. But what it did is the patient thought that there's something now barrier here. So they didn't want to pick it and they just stopped thinking about it. And eventually they broke the habit and they started doing it less and less and less. And he came in with the happiest smile on his face and he's like this miracle topical. Like I don't know what it is but this is the best medication ever. And I was like, it wasn't the medication. It was you just physically realizing that you shouldn't be doing it. You broke the cycle yourself. I was like, I just played a small part of it. You're good. Because he was thinking, how long do I use this? I'm like, you don't have to use it at all. You never have to use it. It was more just for you to, to give yourself the grace to, to break that cycle. And I was so thankful he did.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

That's great. And then again, reaching out of straight skincare supplements. What's your opinion on them and do you have one you recommend?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So supplements are interesting also. I've always been a bit skeptical. Most of them. There's certain ingredients we like so Polypodium leukotomies. It's a for an.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

You're going to need to write that down.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Polypodium. Yeah, it's fantastic.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Polypodium.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Think of it as not to replace sunscreen ever. I'll never say anything about places, sun, but there's I think 80 published studies on the ingredient. They've shown that if you, let's say you're on the beach and it takes you an hour to get a sunburn. I'm just making up numbers. It might take you two hours. It's an extra layer of photo protection beyond your sunscreen. So again, not to replace but to supplement it. Vitamin D. I love a lot of my hair loss patients have very low vitamin D. They don't realize it. I fix the vitamin D, their hair starts to grow back.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Is there like a brand of vitamin D that you endorse? People feel really funny about their, their supplement brands. They get really like hardcore about it.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

What was interesting. So with Elm, we actually did release a supplement and it was actually a compilation all the supplement ingredients at all the derms. We have 350 derm advisors. So we started asking them what do you guys recommend? And we actually put together an all in one because here's the truth of it. People spend a lot of money on supplements when they don't have to. And so you're spending $50 on this, $30 on this, 20 on. And it's really, really expensive. And so we're like, again, as somebody who generally speaking is very hesitant to recommend supplements, there are ingredients I do like. So what we did is we took all of those together. Like, let's put it into one thing that we as doctors feel comfortable recommending to our parents, our family members, our patients, and that was how that was born. But like vitamin D, for example, like 5,000 international units a day is what I recommend to my hair loss patients. Again, always check with your Doctor, but even 2500 is pretty good amount for most people who have vitamin D just to keep them in a good place. There's something called astaxanthin, another natural antioxidant or another antioxidant. Excuse me, that dermatologists love. There's good data behind it.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

It.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

It's just hard to figure out who's doing it the right way versus people who are not. And so sometimes you kind of take it into your own hands. And we tried our best to do it, but again, as long as you're compliant with whatever you're taking, I'm happy. Assuming you're not taking something crazy and saying, that's the end all be all for everything.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Excellent, Dr. B. Thank you. I feel like we got through quite a bit. Should we do a fat mascara five? A quick lightning round?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Let's do it.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

All right, Dr. B. I have to know, what was the first beauty or grooming, Although I hate that word, makes me think of my cat licking its paws. Your first beauty or grooming product that you fell in love with?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

It's a good question. It was probably some Neutrogena something back in the day. I used to have Neutrogena products all over my. My bathroom growing up. And I used to use them like my sacred time. I felt like I was like in a big boy adult when I was probably 13, 14, using these moisturizers. So I would say it's a Neutrogena

[Jennifer Goldstein]

moisturizer that tracks with like the derm. You know, like dermatologist tested, dermatologist approved. Right. So they're not kidding.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I don't know if I ever told you, but I worked with Nutrigen about 10 years ago on a small project that became Hydroboost. And every time I see one of those on any shelf anywhere, I just smile because it's like it's such a privilege to play a small part in something so big. But you know, they don't realize that I've been dreaming of working with that brand many, many years before that ever happened. So it was a full circle moment for me, and I was very grateful for it.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Right. You know, you said before you were like, it kind of happened. I was going to do the. This was your destiny. It was written. So I love when people see. See things through.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I've been very, very lucky. I learned science always wins. Right. Again. Marketing, all that stuff is, I'm sure, important. But when you have a scientific lens and you have a lot of integrity about how you live your life or practice medicine, opportunities will find you. Things will happen, and I just. You always trust the process.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I like that. All right. It sounds like you. You said you were like, baking cookies and giving them to doorman. You and Martha are buddies. Do you have a favorite recipe? Is there. Is there a. A go to in your life?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I don't. I'm a terrible chef and I'd never have time to make anything. I. I pretty much have the same meal, like every day. But my, my dream for 2026 is to learn how to cook. So my goal is one recipe a month. I'm gonna learn.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

That's ambitious.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Hopefully it'll be edible. I cannot promise anything. Hopefully it'll be healthy. And I'm vegetarian, so it's a little bit trickier. But I'm trying to appreciate and more for myself just to have a moment to, like, exhale and do something that's different from my day to day I think would be really nice.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Well, I've had a rolling. I have a yearly goals list and for two years and I've learned to make a recipe. And I'm also vegetarian and it's rolled on to 2026 from like 2024.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So we'll exchange notes, we'll get there.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Yeah, there's a this sheet pan feta thing that was like a New York Times thing a couple of years ago. That looks good.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

All right, we'll both try. We'll compare notes in a couple of months. Promise.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Okay. It is 12 noon on a Saturday. What can we find you doing?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

So I'll probably have just come back from a run. I love early morning runs on Saturdays. Hopefully showered. And then usually I go. I mean, depends if I'm in New York or Miami. I usually try to. Saturdays are my happy place. I try to do no actual work, and it's usually going to see friends, family. I've been spending more time with my parents recently going to see them, especially as they get older. And so usually on Saturday afternoons, maybe going out to a nice lunch or brunch with people I love.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Is there a restaurant that you love?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I don't know. It's kind of different every single time. Did I tell you I opened a restaurant recently, so.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Okay, don't be shy.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Oh, it's in London. So it's a place called Automat in London.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Where in London? Like, what neighborhood?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

In Mayfair. Beautiful location.

[Jessica Matlin]

Snazzy.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I love Mayfair. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. It's a different part of my brain, so I'm really happy with it. But I'm starting to learn casual.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I opened a restaurant in Mayfair.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Clearly I have some sort of add, but, no, I think for me, I love discovering new restaurants, especially in New York. I think Miami's is starting to pull up a little bit more with the restaurant scene. I live between New York and Miami, so I try to Miami. I like going for walks and finding something on my walk. In New York, kind of the same thing. If it's not really cold out. Just discovering new places is my favorite thing.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Very cool. Very cool. It sounds like I'm obsessed with Martha. I'm going to also throw this to Haley too. What have you learned from working with these powerhouse women? Give us some lessons. I'm making you a conduit.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Yeah. I mean, I think you see these people larger than life. They're incredible humans. They're brilliant minds. And I don't think people really appreciate how smart all of these people are. With Martha specifically. She's so sharp. She's with it. She knows what's going on. She sends me. I think she sent me right before this. Like, just an interesting reel. She loves learning about everything, and she's always curious. And I think with Hayley, again, brilliant mind, super creative. She had a vision. She executed incredibly on it. I just. It's a privilege to learn from such amazing humans. And I count myself fortunate just to have them as friends, truthfully.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

And last one.

[Jessica Matlin]

What is the last most recent note

[Jennifer Goldstein]

on your iPhone notes app?

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I think it was a recipe I was trying to copy. I saw something and I think I saw it on Instagram. I was like, okay, let me make a little note of this. And again, it's my dream one day to have something that people are like, wow, you actually make this really good dish.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I want to be that person so badly. Like, Jess, bring your bupidy bupa with the extra creamy sauce.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

We'll have to have you over here at some point. I'm hosting Martha later this week we're filming some stuff together. I always get so nervous because it's like, what do you, how do you entertain? Literally the queen of entertaining. I mean, she literally wrote the books.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Oh my God.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

I mean, with my home over here. When the first time she came in here, I was so nervous that she was not going to approve. Even my office, she was the first person who ever came to my office before it opened. And she walked around, didn't say a word for a good five minutes. I was terrified. And then she finally sat down. She's like, it's very nice, Very nicely done.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

And I was like, you know, very nicely done.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

It was the greatest of blessings.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

That's so good. It's so simple the way she said, very nicely done.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Yeah, it's like I said, she's the queen. But no, it's been, like I said,

[Jennifer Goldstein]

it's good for you.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Something I'm gonna work on over time. Hopefully again we'll have you all over for recipe tastings and if that, if you don't trust me with skincare, at least the recipes hopefully will be a good backup.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

And we trust you. Thank you so much for being on fat mascara.

[Dr. Bhattasali]

Thank you. It's a privilege. And again, I'm so excited for this new season.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

Thank you.

[Jessica Matlin]

Okay. Love Dr. B. So good, so smart, soft spoken, so humble. I just need to give you a

[Jennifer Goldstein]

little bts if anyone's like, she sounded

[Jessica Matlin]

kind of like quiet.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

She sounded a little, I'm being a

[Jessica Matlin]

little maybe self critical here, but that day was absolute insanity. Little BTs behind the wall. So I'm at my desk and then there's a wall right in front of me, right? So it's like me facing my computer and then there's a wall. Behind the wall was my entire family. My husband, my 6 year old daughter and my God love them, my parents who drove an hour and a half to save the day and my sweet little cat who was not feeling well that day. So the nurse called me from school because she was vomiting up a storm. My husband raced home from work on a ferry, God love him. And my parents, knowing that 80,000 things were going on that day with my many, many responsibilities, they were flipping out for me and came in to save the day as well. And I did not want to reschedule on Dr. B because as you know, he has 8,000 jobs and I don't know, I don't want Hailey Bieber to bust in or Martha Stewart to take precedent. So I thought this was my shot. So if I sounded nervous or quiet. That's what was going on. And my daughter was watching television on like volume three and everyone basically was forbidden to exhale for the 40 minute. So thank you everyone for bearing with me.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

I sounded less enthusiastic than how I felt.

[Jessica Matlin]

Thank you for listening to Fat Mascara. If you like the show, consider giving us a rating and review on itunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This helps other people find the show.

[Jennifer Goldstein]

All the of us on social at

[Jessica Matlin]

Fat Mascara and email me at info at Fat Mascara. I would love to hear from you. And to shop the products heard on the episode, check out Fat Mascara on Shop My Shelf. This show is produced by Red Rock Music. I'll see you next time.