Ep. 560: The Pantene Urban Legend, Facelifts & 2025 Beauty Predictions

Summary

Fat Mascara Episode 560: The Pantene Urban Legend, Facelifts & 2025 Beauty Predictions

Hosts: Jennifer Sullivan & Jessica Matlin
Release Date: January 8, 2025

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1. Welcome Back and Holiday Recaps

Jen and Jess kick off the episode with warm New Year greetings, sharing their holiday experiences. Jess recounts bringing her stepson to a Brooklyn New Year's Eve party, where she unexpectedly ran into Marissa Meltzer, a previous guest, highlighting the show's tight-knit beauty community.

"It's going to be a chunky show. A chunky little post-holiday feast for you."
— Jess Matlin [01:50]

2. The Rise of Beauty Newsletters

The hosts discuss the burgeoning trend of beauty-focused newsletters, noting that 2025 is the "year of beauty newsletters." They mention new ventures by industry experts like Marissa Meltzer's Soft Power Beauty and Val Monroe's offerings, emphasizing how these newsletters are becoming essential for beauty enthusiasts.

"Subscribe to beauty newsletters in 2025."
— Jen Sullivan [04:13]

3. 2025 Beauty Predictions

a. Facelifts Gain Popularity and Acceptance

Jess observes an 8% increase in facelifts year-over-year, attributing this rise to the diminishing stigma around surgical enhancements. They predict a surge in mini facelifts—less invasive procedures with shorter recovery times—citing insights from Dr. Sean Alemi, a board-certified plastic surgeon.

"We're going to be seeing the mini facelift and the stigma, basically, with many people completely blown out of the water."
— Jess Matlin [19:30]

"People are getting more comfortable with surgical things."
— Jen Sullivan [15:06]

b. Makeup Takes on More Personality

Jen and Jess foresee a shift towards makeup that exudes more personality and uniqueness, moving away from the minimalist "clean girl" aesthetic. They anticipate "the year of a look," where makeup becomes a canvas for individuality and creativity.

"I think that the beauty looks are going to have a lot of personality."
— Jess Matlin [25:15]

c. Pastoral Luxe in Skincare

The duo predicts a trend in skincare ingredients that evoke a pastoral, homesteading vibe—highlighting American-grown ingredients like wheat germ and balsam protein. This "Pastoral Luxe" trend focuses on natural, ingredient-led beauty products reminiscent of classic formulations.

"Pastoral skincare. Like the ingredients that are... wheat germ."
— Jen Sullivan [29:58]

d. Big Hair Makes a Comeback

Jen anticipates a resurgence of voluminous, "big hair" styles inspired by the late '60s and '70s, alongside modern interpretations like Farrah Fawcett-inspired looks. This trend emphasizes fullness and volume, catering to both textured and non-textured hair types.

"I'm talking about non-textured hair here. But even with textured hair, some styles like the braids are bigger."
— Jen Sullivan [35:24]

e. Fragrance Trends: Mushrooms and Fresh Sparkles

The hosts predict unconventional fragrance notes taking center stage, such as mushrooms, petrichor (the scent of rain), and forest floor elements. Additionally, they foresee a demand for fresh, sparkling fragrances that offer an effervescent and hydrating olfactory experience.

"I think this is, like, the year of... Mushrooms."
— Jen Sullivan [36:37]

"We need something fresh and sparkling, effervescent."
— Jess Matlin [38:19]

4. Listener Interaction: Raising a Wand

An anonymous caller from Toronto shares her positive experience with GLP1 agonists (e.g., Ozempic), clarifying that side effects like hair thinning are more a result of significant weight loss rather than the medication itself. She praises the drug for helping her control overeating and reducing anxiety.

"It's brought a tremendous reduction in anxiety and has immensely boosted my self-confidence."
— Anonymous Caller [42:56]

Jen acknowledges the caller's insights, reinforcing that the beauty and health concerns are linked to dietary changes rather than the medication directly.

5. Makeup Brush Maintenance and Recommendations

Jen expresses frustration with the time-consuming process of cleaning makeup brushes and seeks listeners' tips. She recounts her struggles with maintaining high-quality brushes and rejects DIY appliance solutions, emphasizing the need for efficient, manual cleaning methods.

"How do you clean your makeup brushes? I also know there's people out there... I need help."
— Jen Sullivan [48:02]

6. Product Highlights and Recommendations

The hosts share their favorite beauty products for 2025:

• Setting Sprays: Jen recommends Makeup by Mario's new setting spray, which offers a natural dewy finish without the heavy feel of traditional setting sprays.

"This one has a fine mist, sets the makeup... feels like melted popsicle."
— Jen Sullivan [51:10]

• Mascara: Jess highlights Clinique's Lash Power Mascara in dark chocolate, praising its tubing formula for longevity and flattering color, especially for redheads.

"This mascara opened my eyes... dark chocolate was very flattering."
— Jess Matlin [54:05]

Jen playfully suggests branded names like "40 Plus Mascara" to cater to specific beauty needs.

7. Closing Remarks

Jen and Jess wrap up the episode by teasing upcoming content, including more beauty predictions and special guests from South Korea. They encourage listeners to engage via calls, texts, and voice memos to share their beauty insights and questions.

"Raise a wand."
— Jen Sullivan [55:14]

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Notable Quotes:

• "We're going to be seeing a lot more facelifts, not just curiosity but desire."
  — Jess Matlin [15:16]

• "Color continues to really rain hard this season as we're seeing year-over-year increases double digit."
  — Jess Matlin [27:28]

• "It's the age where we're seeing a lot of skin tightening and tautening."
  — Jen Sullivan [20:07]

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Conclusion

Episode 560 of Fat Mascara delves deep into the evolving beauty landscape of 2025, offering insightful predictions on surgical trends, makeup innovations, skincare ingredients, hair styling, and fragrances. Jen and Jess provide expert commentary, backed by industry knowledge and listener interactions, making this episode a must-listen for beauty enthusiasts keen on staying ahead of the curve.

Transcript

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[Jess Matlin]

Hey, hey, everyone. It's fat mascara here. I'm Jess.

[Jen Sullivan]

I'm Jen Sullivan. Happy New Year.

[Jess Matlin]

Big, big, happy New Year. Oh, Lord, Lord, please make it a good one. Make it a goodie for all of our FM listeners.

[Jen Sullivan]

I want that for everybody.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, really, like, come on.

[Jen Sullivan]

Go on. 20, 25.

[Jess Matlin]

Rolling the dice.

[Jen Sullivan]

How was your break? Did you miss us, everyone? I mean, I know we were putting out shows and you heard some of.

[Jess Matlin]

Us here and there, but I missed you guys. You know, it was.

[Jen Sullivan]

It was.

[Jess Matlin]

I will admit, it was like a slog. Getting back into the groove yesterday, I, like, booted up the computer, but I. I was actually really excited to start recording again. Yeah, Yeah, I was like that. My keyboard was actually, like, dusty. I had to, like, use compressed air, which was a good sign. It was a good sign.

[Jen Sullivan]

No, but like, all the, you know, I still stay up on everything that's going on and like, as news stories would come in, I'd be like, I want to talk about this. Who do I talk about it with? I got to wait another week.

[Jess Matlin]

I had an iPhone note. An iPhone note.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. Till I. We're going to talk about that.

[Jess Matlin]

It's going to be a chunky show. A chunky little post holiday feast for you. How was the holiday? I texted with you a couple times, but tried to. I tried to be like. Tried to go dark. I tried to go dark.

[Jen Sullivan]

Well, that's what you're supposed to do on vacation, and I think people have trouble doing that. It was great. I had my stepson here for 10 days, and so I played stepmom. And then I was like, you know what? I'm still gonna have my New Year's Eve that I wanna have. And I brought him to a Brooklyn New Year's Eve party. Jess, did he work the room or did he work the room?

[Jess Matlin]

He's like, a little grown up. First of all, he's gonna go back to Germany with the most amazing story.

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, we got him a haircut while he was here at a barbershop downtown. He looks like a little River Phoenix now. He got a little, like, trim, but I left him for like, five minutes. He's one of those kids that, like, does better with adults.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

And so I come back, he's talking to a woman who works at Google in German about the history of Europe, of course. And I was like, I leave him for five minutes. It was great. And then I sent him upstairs to be on his screens while the adult partying was happening. Guess who I saw at the party?

[Jess Matlin]

Who?

[Jen Sullivan]

A former fat mascara guest. Was there. Marissa Meltzer.

[Jess Matlin]

Okay. Author.

[Jen Sullivan]

The book about glossier. We were talking because she. She was glowing. Her skin's fabulous, but she was wearing silver sequins. But the big ones. What do you call the big ones that dance a little paillette. Is that right?

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

A paillette. I don't know if I know that word.

[Jess Matlin]

They fall off easily. People can know where you're coming and going.

[Jen Sullivan]

But they look so good.

[Jess Matlin]

They look cool. Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

She was wearing paillettes. But she told me she just launched a beauty newsletter, Soft Power.

[Jess Matlin]

There's a few beauty newsletters going on right now.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's 2025, the year that beauty. Because there's been these fashion newsletters on substack. Mostly, I'm talking about. So Marissa Meltzer, she started Soft Power Beauty. A beauty clutter. My friend. And our former guest, Val Monroe, of course, has one.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

Who else? There's a couple other new beauty. Jolene Edgar. Well, I mean, Jamie Rosen.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, Jamie Rosen started one. I mean, you can't really count, like, Linda Wells as, like, a technically a beauty newsletter because it's part of air mail, but it is sort of a beauty newsletter.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah. Comes to my inbox.

[Jess Matlin]

But, yeah, very cool. I'm excited to. Excited to read it.

[Jen Sullivan]

There you go. Early news for you guys. Subscribe to beauty newsletters in 2025.

[Jess Matlin]

This is sort of your audio beauty newsletter, but I suppose you can get a transcript.

[Jen Sullivan]

I know. Who wants to read? Just. Just put us in your ears and go clean the house. Right.

[Jess Matlin]

All right. So what else happened? Did you guys relax at all?

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, yeah, I relaxed. And you?

[Jess Matlin]

We were bopping around the New York.

[Jen Sullivan]

New Jersey state of New area.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, exactly. We went to Ithaca. We went to the Buffalo suburb. We went back to New York, New Jersey. Are you tired yet? It was a lot. It was a lot. But it was really nice to see family.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matlin]

And then I bought myself an aloe sports tank to go with my aloe. This is not paid for. An aloe yoga. My. With my aloe yoga experience. It is an experience. Our subscription.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes.

[Jess Matlin]

You know, I'm very into that.

[Jen Sullivan]

I was going to talk about that, too. I got so into the aloe moves app that we.

[Jess Matlin]

Allo. App. Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

Use code, fat mascara, blah, blah, blah. That I started taking IRL yoga classes in the last week.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, cool.

[Jen Sullivan]

Because I was like, my practice is evolving.

[Jess Matlin]

That's really. Yet I felt like I needed to, like, move. Yesterday, I actually ran just, like, down the block.

[Jen Sullivan]

Wait, what?

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, I put on my new aloe.

[Jen Sullivan]

Jessica Matlin went running.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah. Not. This is not Spawn. I put on this aloe tank. It's like, not a bra top. That's not the shape I'm in. It's like a compression tank. And then I put on, like, a hoodie, and I ran down to the next ferry station. There's, like, two ferry stations.

[Jen Sullivan]

What's our distance? What are we talking about here?

[Jess Matlin]

It's like, a couple of very long blocks, and I just ran, ran, ran. So that was cool.

[Jen Sullivan]

Guys, this is our New Year's resolution. Look at us. This is now an exercise podcast.

[Jess Matlin]

And then I listened to. I don't know who else is following. I'm not, like, an insane Bravo person, but I'm. I'm definitely, like, into Bravo. I'm sure you all know that Paige and Craig broke up from the Bravo verse. So I was listening to, like, 8,000 podcasts, analyzing that at. Write me if you want to discuss.

[Jen Sullivan]

I was sorry to these people.

[Jess Matlin]

I have no idea who they are.

[Jen Sullivan]

I was like. You said those names. I was like, cool.

[Jess Matlin]

You know Paige from Giggly Squad?

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, yeah, yeah. She's a Bravo. Yeah. Oh, right. Because they were in Summer House or something.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Craig's from Southern Charm. He's really cute. And Paige is cute, too.

[Jen Sullivan]

I actually know who he is. Cause when I did a cover story on Chrissy Teigen, she made me watch, like, two hours of Southern Charm with her.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they.

[Jen Sullivan]

This is not what an interviewer wants. We don't want you to watch to watch TV with you. I can't put this in the article, but she really loves Southern charm.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, they were really cute together. And now it's over.

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, sorry, guys.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, and then I had a little media highlight of my own.

[Jen Sullivan]

Go on.

[Jess Matlin]

So Marissa, your buddy, she and I spoke right before the holiday about, like, gadgets and gizmos for 2024. And you know that I'm, like, not all in on gadgets and gizmos because.

[Jen Sullivan]

We both have the same. It's like, you gotta get in the habit. It Works if you work them.

[Jess Matlin]

Exactly.

[Jen Sullivan]

Are you gonna work them?

[Jess Matlin]

But, yes, I did talk about our best selling device at Moda, which is the Lima laser. And yeah, I mean, it's. What's great about the Lima is it's like, very easy to use. There's no wait.

[Jen Sullivan]

I saw the article and I saw your quote, which I could hear your voice saying it. The article ends, guys, it's in the New York Times. It's all about beauty devices in 2025. Pundit Jessica Macklin at the end goes, you can do it while you watch tv.

[Jess Matlin]

That's like the last line. Well, I wish there was a little bit more color to it, Marissa. This isn't like shade. I'm just like. I wish I sounded a little bit more, like, specific, like.

[Jen Sullivan]

But anybod that knows you or listens to this podcast, like, was like, yep, that about sums it up. Like, honey, it's just. Just get the thing, turn it on and go watch some TV and put it on your face, you know, Because.

[Jess Matlin]

I don't like gadgets where it's like, you know that you're going to have to suffer. You're going to be twitching. My mother had the Connie Stevens river springs system from the 90s. And she was literally getting electrocuted, like, while she was.

[Jen Sullivan]

Wait, say more. What is this thing?

[Jess Matlin]

Hopefully Connie Stevens is not gonna, like, come get me. But she had this system on hsn and it was like this electric stim. Huh? Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, you know, microcurrent before microcurrent was microcurrent as we know it today. And my mom would use it while she was lying in bed. And I watched my mother's upper lip go up like a horse.

[Jen Sullivan]

Wait, I vaguely remember this. Cause my introduction was, of course, with physical therapy. Like, they'd put it on your knee or whatever to make your muscle contract. It was like those little pads, right?

[Jess Matlin]

It was. No, this didn't have pads. This was literally looked like.

[Jen Sullivan]

Would she hold the device to her face?

[Jess Matlin]

She held it and I watched. I never saw my mother's face. She was electrocuted and she was like, oh. And she'd be watching like, I don't know, like Dallas or like Hunter or.

[Jen Sullivan]

Like, what was it? No pain, no gain. Like that whole vibe. And this poor woman is whole, like, literally holding a device to her face. That hurts. Yeah, just do it. Just do it.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah. And eventually stopped using it after a little while. But I was like, ow. So any, like, new device, if it hurts, I'm Like, I can't. I can't. But the Lima does not hurt. Every esthetician, you know, every esthetician uses it sometimes. They use two. Gavin used two. Lord Gavin used two. The thing is, it's pricey. And when I say it's pricey, it's pricey. It's about 2,000 something.

[Jen Sullivan]

And this is the one that's. It's LED, right?

[Jess Matlin]

No, it's an at home laser and it helps to boost collagen. It's cold. It's not warm at all.

[Jen Sullivan]

Like, and it doesn't hurt when you put it.

[Jess Matlin]

That's the thing. It does. You don't twitch, you don't back away.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's like I get like three. I could get four. Just like, I only have two hands though.

[Jess Matlin]

I mean, if you've got the money. No, no, no. Honestly, one is. One is enough.

[Jen Sullivan]

One is enough. Okay, so you're in that, the article. Yes. You were in the New York Times and quoted and. Yeah. Just setting off the year. Right. I think that just came out at like January 1st or something like that.

[Jess Matlin]

It was December 31st, but I didn't see it until a couple days later. I was too obsessed with Paige and Craig. I couldn't focus.

[Jen Sullivan]

Nice. Well, this actually sets us up for our news. Cause we're doing something a little bit this episode. We're easing our way back into the year with predictions because I felt like naughty and nice was great. Cause we were looking back. But let's start the year looking forward. You're into this idea, right? Yeah. So the news section this week we're going to predict some stuff for 2025. I don't know, maybe we'll revisit this at naughty and Nice 2025 and see how we did on these predictions.

[Jess Matlin]

But should we get into it? That's going to be interesting. Yeah, I bet it be. Right?

[Jen Sullivan]

Let's do it.

[Jess Matlin]

Okay.

[Jen Sullivan]

Jess, you ever notice how your skin sort of changes in the winter?

[Jess Matlin]

Sure.

[Jen Sullivan]

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[Jess Matlin]

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[Jen Sullivan]

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[Jess Matlin]

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[Jen Sullivan]

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[Jess Matlin]

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[Jess Matlin]

Okay, let's talk predictions, predictions, predictions. Okay. Not saying this is a good thing, not saying this is a bad thing. I'm just saying it's a thing. Okay, I want to talk about facelifts. All right.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay.

[Jess Matlin]

We know in 2023, this is the most recent data I have. Guys, 2024 just ended. Okay, Give me a break. There was an 8% spike year over year in facelifts. Okay. That's not nothing. From what I observe over the past few years, the stigma in facelifts is poof, it's gone out the window. What do you think, Jen?

[Jen Sullivan]

Agree. It's. Yes.

[Jess Matlin]

Okay.

[Jen Sullivan]

People, younger people are getting into it. People are just more comfortable with surgical things.

[Jess Matlin]

Right, right. Agree, agree.

[Jen Sullivan]

So the prediction.

[Jess Matlin]

So the prediction is we are going to see a lot more not just curiosity about facelifts, but desire for facelifts. Okay. And really, people saying, I'm kind of done with the filler and going for the full Monty. But when I say the full Monty, it doesn't necessarily mean I want like a Park Avenue, hike it all up, give me a new face facelift. It just means I want what Dr. Sean Alemi is calling a one and done. So I spoke to him about this. I wanted to confirm that my suspicions were correct with somebody who knows what's going on. If you don't know what Sean Alemmi's work, go check him out. He's a Long island board certified plastic surgeon and his before and afters were at BC. DNAs, as we call them, are absolutely like, mind blowing. A one and done is basically like exactly what I'm talking about. It's. I'm tired of constantly coming in every six months to just get like a tune up, a filler, a Botox this and a that. And it's like you're not getting that hit anymore because it's not working anymore. So. And also people are really wary of getting overfilled.

[Jen Sullivan]

People of a certain age, I think.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking.

[Jen Sullivan]

Might I posit the age that you're approaching?

[Jess Matlin]

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So people of a certain age, I think that is exactly. That is very subjective. Right. I think when you say people of a certain age, it means not a kid. But the weird thing is is that it's getting younger and younger, and that concerns me a little That's. That's me talking here. That's not Dr. Shawnalemi. Because it's like, I don't love this idea that we're doing predictions, not editorials here, but, like, it makes me a little concerned, but it's happening. I was listening to a podcast the other day with Kat Sadler, if you guys remember her. She was on E. News Forever. She was really proud and, like, really open about how she got a facelift at 48. And I thought that was really cool that she was open about it and not acting like it was just, you know, like green juice and exercise and happiness. But she's 48 and she's getting a facelift. I think five years ago, it would be like, what. She'd be on the COVID of People magazine. Like, facelift at 48. You know, but a lot of doctors.

[Jen Sullivan]

Are saying facelifts in your 40s. Prediction.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, like, that. This is, like, not a crazy thing. And Dr. Shawn Alemi also said that a mini facelift. Remember I was saying before, it's not the hike it all up, you know?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matlin]

It's. A mini facelift is really something that we're going to be seeing more.

[Jen Sullivan]

More of.

[Jess Matlin]

And what is a mini facelift? It's something that just has shorter incisions. It's perform on a yard.

[Jen Sullivan]

But that's a colloquial term. Like, doctors don't think.

[Jess Matlin]

No, this isn't like you're gonna like baby Botox.

[Jen Sullivan]

I love when people say this. They're like, you know, they. They feel like it's okay to talk about. If they say, I had baby Botox, I had a mini facelift.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

This is not like you got surgery on your face. That is a facelift.

[Jess Matlin]

Yes. You know. Yeah. You're not going into. At medical school, they don't spend two weeks on the mini facelift. This is like. Yeah, yeah, this is exactly a colloquialism. But the mini facelift is something with shorter incisions. It's performed on a younger patient that has less skin laxity. It' components of a regular facelift. So there's no beating around the bush there, but you're gonna have a shorter recovery time. I think we're gonna see a lot, lot more people, a lot more celebrities who. We think maybe it's Botox. We're not sure. We think maybe it's filler, but they actually just had a facelift. And guess what? I think a lot of these celebrities have been having this the whole time. We just did not know.

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh, yeah. We hear the rumors too. Like, all the. When a celebrity and Jess and I don't get into this, but lately I'm like, I'm over it. I'm just gonna say what I think. Like, when Brad Pitt shows up much younger.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, my God.

[Jen Sullivan]

You know, among all the derms we talk to, like, they know who didn't work. You know what I'm saying?

[Jess Matlin]

Allegedly Brad Pitt. Very powerful person. Very powerful person.

[Jen Sullivan]

So 2025, the mini facelift.

[Jess Matlin]

The mini facelift.

[Jen Sullivan]

More comfort with surgery. Yeah. Interesting.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah. Distilling it down, Jen. Thank you. We're gonna be seeing the mini facelift and, like, the stigma, basically, with many people completely blown out of the water. I want a mini facelift versus I need Botox.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right. Yeah.

[Jess Matlin]

I'm not saying everyone run out and ask their doctors for a facelift next week. I'm saying it's happening.

[Jen Sullivan]

That's funny, because I was thinking about skincare trends as well, and what I've been noticing is a lot of people wanting taut and a lot of focus on more tightening and tautening, if that's a word.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, versus filling.

[Jen Sullivan]

Versus filling and plumping.

[Jess Matlin]

Totally with you.

[Jen Sullivan]

Which ties in with what you were saying before. So skincare ingredients that don't just, like, boost collagen, but also help with skin laxity, which, of course, like, if you're boosting collagen.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

So. But skin laxate's really hard with topicals, so that. That's part of the issue here with topicals. And why I think what you're saying is true, because at a certain point, you can't tighten your skin with a. A face cream. You need to go, you know, radio frequency might help and those kind of things. So I'm seeing more skin tightening and tautening in 25, and a focus on that as wrinkles per se, or plumping per se.

[Jess Matlin]

Do you think I'm just. I'm just positing this now. Do you think it's because, like, the skincare obsessed audience who really, like. I think the skincare boom happened for millennials. They were all into plumping, and now it's like the laxity. Like, we're seeing the. The deflation.

[Jen Sullivan]

I think you're right. Right on. In that the millennial is a huge group of population that, like, is hitting that age where this is happening.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

And they're the ones who have been vocal all along when they try new things that generations just, like, moved the needle and the way the boomers did, because they're just a lot of them. Right.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

But I also think it has to do with the whole conversation about GLP1s that we've been having over the last couple weeks, which we'll get to in raise a wand, by the way. We have something to add to that, but just that as people who are on those lose weight, laxity is just becoming more in the zeitgeist of a conversation, you know, so tightening is what I'm seeing for 2025.

[Jess Matlin]

I just had a thought, and I don't mean to boomerang back to the facelift thing, but med spas, and I know we're going to be talking about med spas later this season, but med spas, those crept up because everybody wanted Botox and filler, and it became more democratic. You can't really democratize a mini facelift.

[Jen Sullivan]

Have you been to South Korea? No. You have been to South Korea?

[Jess Matlin]

I have not been South Korea.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, I feel like that actually, next week, we have a guest on who will speak to this. But the way that has surgery is something you could get on, like, you know, in the local mall, and the prices are up on a board. I would call that democratizing in a way. More available.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, but I'm saying, like, not to the same. Like.

[Jen Sullivan]

No, but the prices there are just so much less expensive that it does become more available to more people for that. So I don't know, maybe that'll make its way to the United States and you'll see that as well.

[Jess Matlin]

I.

[Jen Sullivan]

What was that? Okay, moving on. Next prediction. Hit me. Jess, what do you got?

[Jess Matlin]

I'm just picturing. I'm, like, pulling at my neck. I'm pulling at my neck. Oh, my God. Wow. I'm so into this facelift conversation. I'm really like, we're gonna be following this trend. Okay. All right. So something with fewer side effects. Okay. Makeup with a little bit more personality. I think that this is, like, the year of a look. All right. And here's why. I feel like the clean girl thing, I know that's been going on for, like, a few years. That wasn't, like, the look of 2024. I'm not, like, saying that, but I feel like last year we saw a lot of celebrities that had. It's so funny when I say the word celebrity, as I feel like I'm like another podcast. The celebrities. The celebrities, like, you know, Sabrina Carpenter Chapel Roan, Charli xcx, even, like, a little bit Olivia Rodrigo. I'm not putting Taylor Swift in this camp. I just, like, feel like she's her own. She's just in her own space. But like, these are people who have so much personality and such a look. Even like Chapel Ron just looks like. I don't know if you're like, really young on this, listening to this but podcast. I don't know if you're gonna get this, but like, she kind of looks like Kate Pearson from like the B52s. Like, and Kate Bush, like, and like something else. You know what I mean?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matlin]

These are not people who I would have expected necessarily to be like beauty brand icons or ambassadors. But like, some of them were Sabrina Carpenter.

[Jen Sullivan]

Sure.

[Jess Matlin]

But you know what I mean, you get my point. They've got like, they look like caricatures. And just a year before, it was like, Hailey Bieber.

[Jen Sullivan]

And who's that? The Beckham married? That girl that just like, I forget her name all the time for reason. Cause she's just kind of forgettable, you know.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually. Yes, I know what you're saying. Yeah. So I don't think the pendulum is gonna swing back to the sort of clean girl, Hailey Bieber thing. And Hailey Bieber has her own style, which is very cool, but I just feel like it shows the world is in a very strange, disquieting place that is like, not to be debated at all. I think that the beauty looks are going to have a lot of personality. So that's not like the most specific messy girl aesthetic. Yeah, I feel it's like almost like messy girl. Messy girl. Messy, like menacing.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes.

[Jess Matlin]

Maybe like the most optimistic, aspirational way of looking at it is really creative and exciting. I think looking at what we had, if you listened last year.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, Brat, like. But BRAT 2.0.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

Exactly.

[Jess Matlin]

What is BRAT 2.0? And it doesn't need to be like, negative. I don't think it's be negative. I think it could be just like. I think we're in for a surprise. So I think that's maybe it's a little bit of a cop out. Like, ooh, who knows what's coming? But I think it's just like.

[Jen Sullivan]

No, no, I like it.

[Jess Matlin]

Do you get what I mean?

[Jen Sullivan]

Absolutely.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

All right. Messy girl. That's funny. In my makeup world, when I was like, predicting, I keep seeing, you know, how girl has been so popular for so long. The bows, the coquettes, the Barbie of it all.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

I don't know if this is me. Cause I also just like interviewed a couple people that are in South Korea for something, but like, the Baby aesthetic in makeup. Like, the blush is getting way blushier higher on the cheeks. The freckles, faux freckles are still very much around the dewy, bouncy. The lips are getting pouty, but not in that, like, full all over. More of like the rosebuddy cupid kind of pouty.

[Jess Matlin]

I wonder what that's about. I'd love to, like, decode that.

[Jen Sullivan]

I feel like it's just extremes. Like, oh, we did girl. Let's like one up and go, baby. You know, like toddler makeup. I don't know.

[Jess Matlin]

Like a baby Jane.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah. I'm picturing toddlers and tiaras, which is both the messy girl and the baby aesthetic combined. Like, is that the hot new look? But my prediction in makeup is that we're just going to be seeing a lot more extreme versions of those youth enhancing type makeup looks.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, totally.

[Jen Sullivan]

Blush, of course, being. I think blush is going to stay big. This is here for a while. Yeah.

[Jess Matlin]

I love blush. I don't know what I was thinking not wearing for so long.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jess Matlin]

Just on the final. My final note on, like, the whole makeup trend is makeup. I just think color is going to continue to. Now I feel like I sound like I work for, like, Mintel or something.

[Jen Sullivan]

Well, you do, but you have insights. Being at Moda as a merchandiser, you know what product's moving. Tell us, tell us.

[Jess Matlin]

Color continues to really rain hard this season as we're seeing year over year increases double digit. So I.

[Jen Sullivan]

You laugh. I want it. Give it to me.

[Jess Matlin]

Okay. I always. I just did, like this kind of thing. Such a nerd. Such a. Such a nerd. I am.

[Jen Sullivan]

That's why we come to you. Jess, give us the data. What's. What are people into?

[Jess Matlin]

I think that truly makeup is. I can say this makeup is doing very well at Moda and we are seeing big increases. It's very exciting. And I think why. And now I'm not talking just about Moda anymore. I'm just talking more broadly. Is that people want. They want a quick fix. And I think it's less money than skincare. By and large. It's very much a fashion product. And if you look around, you don't need to be an economist to know that everything is very expensive right now. Luxury products are. I forgot the stat. I should have. I just thought about this now. I should have looked. I wish I knew thought before to look. But like, it's something like luxury goods have increased. The price of like, let's say a designer bag has increased, like more than.

[Jen Sullivan]

Double of the inflation rate. Yes.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah. So if you wanted to treat yourself to, like, insert designer brand here, bag, like a couple years ago, you're probably thinking to think twice before doing that. But if you want to get the lipstick, you can get. Get that hit. Or it's just a. It's a nice way to treat yourself. It's a great way to just sort of, like, give your wardrobe a refresh. Or it's just like you're kind of doing retail therapy. It's much easier than buying a pair of shoes or a bag or whatever right now.

[Jen Sullivan]

Or a serum that takes 60 days to see results.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or if you're shopping with your friends and you just want to buy something, but you don't want to buy, like, what they're buying or what you're window shopping. You get my point. So that's why I think color is having a moment. And we live in a very, like, aesthetic driven kind of world that more so than we did 10 years ago, like, thank you, TikTok. Thank you, Instagram. And it's easier to achieve whatever look, even if it doesn't even, like, make sense outside of the aesthetic. You feel like you bought into the coquette world or the brat world, whatever it is, by buying that piece of the puzzle makeup. Yeah, yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

2025, the year of makeup. It's true. We've been on a skincare kick for a while post pandemic and all that, so I see what you're saying.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

On the skincare note, though, I have noticed and I just have to point out these. You gave me the word, and I can't get it out of my head. Pastoral luxe. Pastoral skincare. Like, the ingredients that are. They feel of a farmer's era, a time like that. I'm thinking about brands like Flamingo Estate, Leprunier, Vintner's Daughter. This is in the luxe space.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, I totally feel, like, primally pure.

[Jen Sullivan]

I know that's beef towel and you're not into that, but this goes along with that homesteading vibe that's been growing in the Zeitgeist. And I think some of the skincare ingredients that people are going to be looking to are the ones that feel like, oh, yeah, wheat germ. I was just thinking about this. Remember when, like, it's because I was in my mom's shower and she has VO5.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Jen Sullivan]

Like wheat germ and wheat balsam.

[Jess Matlin]

I was just like, balsam protein.

[Jen Sullivan]

Balsam protein, which is a fur tree, not whatever, but like, these are like American grown, like, ingredients that were so hot in the 80s and 90s. I think the wheat germs coming back in the shampoos, like these kind of ingredients.

[Jess Matlin]

I think you're right. Like all of this prairie stuff, like, all like, prairie.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, Prairie, Prairie. I was calling it Lux Pastoral. I was trying to give it a magazine name.

[Jess Matlin]

No, but that, that is such an aesthetic that, like, I don't feel like people, people are saying, trad wife. But I think what you're, what you're nailing is you're like, you're nailing the true luxury, aspirational, like, ingredient led beauty aspect of it. Not like the gross, like cow milk.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, mine's a Wyeth painting, if you want.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, yes. No offense to the cows. They need to be milked.

[Jen Sullivan]

Mine's Lara in the field.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

On the note of wheat germ, have you been seeing this whole thing happening with Pantene in the last couple weeks?

[Jess Matlin]

No, I've not. I really need to know.

[Jen Sullivan]

So Alex Earle talked about she went home. This happens to me every time I go home to my mom's shower over the holidays. Like, everybody goes back to, like, their childhood bedroom. Large percentage of people, they go into the shower. Whatever the heck is in there, you're gonna use it. And in my mom's bathroom, it was VO5 and a big old thing of Pantene jumbo size from Costco that's been in there for seven years and only gets used when I use the guest shower. Alix Earle did the same thing, went home, used her old Pantene and was like, my hair is amazing. So it became this whole thing of like, wait, is Pantene actually amazing for your hair? And I never, I understand why Pantene, like, there's a lot of dimethicone in certain drugstore shampoos. And all the hairstylists are always like, you gotta use salon worthy shampoo. No power carbons, no sulfates, fewer dimethicones and silicones. They don't coat your hair. And the theory makes sense. But every time I talk to, like, the researchers at Princeton that measure and comb hair, they're just like, slip is good. And anything that makes your hair slippery and shiny makes it less breakage, makes it look better. Makes after your blow dry, you're happier. There's more protection on your hair when you're blow drying. Like, there's a reason that Pantene is so popular. It makes your hair really soft and nice. And they always say to me, which I think is true. Like, you can wash it out if you're worried about, like, silicone buildup. And I think that's what happened with Pantene. It got like this backlash of, like, does it weigh down your hair? Yeah, there's clarifying shampoo for that. There's things like you are not putting a coat of car wax on your hair, as if you're sending it out into the interstate to, like, be attacked by wind.

[Jess Matlin]

There was a girl in my college dorm, I remember, who told me, she was like, yeah, Pantene is really bad for your hair. And I was just right.

[Jen Sullivan]

It got this, like, crack quality to it.

[Jess Matlin]

For a while there, I was just like, she had no explanation why nobody ever done it. It was like an urban legend.

[Jen Sullivan]

Do you think it was? I don't know. I remember this happened with frizzies when silicones first got put into hair products. It also coincides with, if you look at the data, a hair loss, quote unquote epidemic. And people take these two things and conflate them and make causation where there's correlation. But I don't know that that's true. And all the researchers I talked to is like, yeah, we wash the hair and then the stuff comes out, and then you put it back in and it's soft. And then you wash the hair and the stuff comes back out. So this isn't too my pastoral trend, but Pantene's back, everyone.

[Jess Matlin]

So Pantene, folks at Pantene, if anyone else remembers this, there was this incredible shampoo. It's one of the best shampoos I've ever used in my life. Okay. It's currently on ebay for about 70 bucks.

[Jen Sullivan]

What?

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay.

[Jess Matlin]

What is it? Pantene Ice Shine. You guys remember Ice Shine? If you know, you know, it really made your hair so shiny. It smelled great. Pantene, please let me know what happened.

[Jen Sullivan]

Bring back the ice Shine.

[Jess Matlin]

It was so good. It was so good. It was clear. It was like, oh, yeah. It was so good. It was so good. I will drive. I can't drive. What am I talking about?

[Jen Sullivan]

You're not gonna pay $70 on eBay for ice Shine. Who knows?

[Jess Matlin]

I will.

[Jen Sullivan]

You're not doing it. I'm not allowing it.

[Jess Matlin]

I'm Uber to the factory, to the warehouse.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, well, this goes along with the other hair trend before. And then I have a fragrance trend. The other hair trend that I. I've been seeing more like people lo tool, but like an old school hot tool. Like a hot tool. Like a Curlers. Like a set of curlers. A round brush that curls. A blow drying round brush. That shark beauty brush that everybody loves. I got to try it. I'm like obsessed with it. It makes like the big. They're not barrel pageant curls. You know how you've been like, this is big. Look at every hair salon you go to in America. You go in and you come out with this. And then the ends are left out because that makes it look natural. And it's like. It's like Gisele Bundchen 2002 Redux look kind of.

[Jess Matlin]

I like that.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's getting bigger again. It's getting Farah Fawcettier. There's more volume. I'm talking about non textured hair here. But even with textured hair, some styles like the braids are bigger. The fuller volume on the crown. Like, I just think people are ready for a big hair moment. You know what I keep thinking about? Do you remember this J. Lo look? I think it's when she wore the Gucci by Tom Ford green dress that was really low and her hair was.

[Jess Matlin]

Like, oh, that was Versace. Do you want to rewind?

[Jen Sullivan]

No, it's fine. It's Versace. Guys. I don't know all my 2000 ought references. I'm so sorry.

[Jess Matlin]

That was 1990s. That was the 90s.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay. It was in the 90s. Here we go. This is why I have Jess around to correct me with my. My beauty history. And then she had that hair look. And at the time I was like, what is she doing? But it was like it. It had that late 60s to 70s kind of big baby girl quality. Texas. Like, I don't know, I feel like people want to big ass hair.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah. I think people want a little fat hair. Yeah. They want a little sexy.

[Jen Sullivan]

Should we do fat mascara hair. But it'll just be fat hair.

[Jess Matlin]

It'll be sexy fat.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay, last thing. We can't not talk about Fragrance predictions in 2025.

[Jess Matlin]

What you got? What you got for me?

[Jen Sullivan]

Here's what I'm feeling, guys. Mushrooms. I'm calling it now.

[Jess Matlin]

Mushrooms.

[Jen Sullivan]

Mushrooms.

[Jess Matlin]

What?

[Jen Sullivan]

Forest floor. Dark and mysterious. Water, moisture, gourmand adjacent kind of notes. Nuts, Mushrooms. Petrichor moss.

[Jess Matlin]

Petrichor. Love it.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah, Petrichor. Another one into the smell after the rain. But I just think we did the cherry, we did the pistachio. We did the gourmand, we did the vanilla. Our gourmands have to get a little bit weirder and dirtier. And I think that's gonna be Cool.

[Jess Matlin]

I definitely can see them getting dirtier and weirder, I think. Think it's got to get weirder. It's got to get weirder. But can I also posit? And I thought about this this morning. Positive is like, give me a dollar every time.

[Jen Sullivan]

So, I mean, drink every time. You hear us say positive, don't. If you do, enjoy January, posit.

[Jess Matlin]

Can I posit another avenue for fragrances?

[Jen Sullivan]

Go on.

[Jess Matlin]

Okay. I was looking at my fragrance wardrobe this morning, and clearly I need, like, I need some fresh air, both, like, literally and figuratively in my fragrance wardrobe. Because everything is quite heavy right now. Everything's a little strange. Everything's a little syrupy. Syrupy. We've got gourmands. We've got woods. We've got, you know, strangeness. We've got chipmunks and rabbits and, you know, all the other mice. We've got.

[Jen Sullivan]

I guess maybe no more forest floor.

[Jess Matlin]

No, no, no, no. We have room to get weirder for sure. Okay. And I think the perfumers can always get weirder. But what I was missing, I was like, I need something fresh and I need something sparkling, effervescent.

[Jen Sullivan]

Do you need, like, eternity, but, like, a little bit. Even a little bit better?

[Jess Matlin]

Yep.

[Jen Sullivan]

Remember eternity? Not the men's one that was even more popular, but the women's eternity.

[Jess Matlin]

I didn't love. No offense, not at the time.

[Jen Sullivan]

I didn't.

[Jess Matlin]

I didn't love eternity. But yes, something like, what is the new eternity? I used to wear and love Ralph Lauren romance. Like, I used to wear that, like, to death. That was a woody, sparkling fragrance.

[Jen Sullivan]

Imagine that, but with ginger. I still want it to have a weird gourmand note, like instead of a pineapple or instead of a spritzy, like a ginger.

[Jess Matlin]

No one is doing sparkling, effervescent.

[Jen Sullivan]

They don't sparkle. No one's sparkling.

[Jess Matlin]

No one's sparkling. And I don't know.

[Jen Sullivan]

Where's the sparkle?

[Jess Matlin]

Don't know.

[Jen Sullivan]

Zesty sparkle.

[Jess Matlin]

They're afraid. Even Tommy Hill. Tommy girl sparkles Tea.

[Jen Sullivan]

Light tea.

[Jess Matlin]

Exactly like a Elizabeth Arden green tea.

[Jen Sullivan]

Elizabeth, that I always come back to like. Yeah, wear those. Wear the Fresh breeze blues in.

[Jess Matlin]

I'm gonna drop one on you.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay.

[Jess Matlin]

I don't know if you got. I don't know if you. If this one made it your way. Cause it was kind of a dark horse. Elizabeth Arden's splendor.

[Jen Sullivan]

Splendor, yeah.

[Jess Matlin]

This one girl wore it on the way to sparkle.

[Jen Sullivan]

I remember sunflowers, and that was huge.

[Jess Matlin]

I don't. That one's in sparkle.

[Jen Sullivan]

What was Elizabeth Arden's Splendor about?

[Jess Matlin]

All I can tell you is maybe it had, like, some floral in it, but this girl who was in our carpool on the way to school wore it all the time, and it, like, filled up the car.

[Jen Sullivan]

The bottle is giving these. So it's a light powder blue bottle and then a very glass blown sphere. Yes, it was the powder blue packaging.

[Jess Matlin]

It was like a Disney model. A Disney castle.

[Jen Sullivan]

Like, girl, you can get on Fragrancenet. You can get Elizabeth arden's blender for $15.74.

[Jess Matlin]

It might be coming to my house.

[Jen Sullivan]

The 4.2 ounce Eau de Parfum spray. So a big bottle, 15 bucks.

[Jess Matlin]

It didn't smell super luxury, but it sparkled, and she smelled beautiful.

[Jen Sullivan]

Sparkle. Yeah. Okay, so it had. Oh, this is Sweet pea. Sweet pea. Freesia, pineapple. Yes. I mean, you're hitting the sparkle notes. Hyacinth apple, bergamot. Are you kidding me? You just named the sparkle Splendor.

[Jess Matlin]

This is a very random one. I wonder if they still make this fresh. Remember, like the same. Remember the brand Fresh. When Lev and Alina were there, they did one called Fresh Life, and that sparkled like a damn. Like a damn fountain.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay, if we. So since we're in two different places and mine's on the forest floor and there's moss and mushrooms and oddballagio sparkling air. What is the commonality here? There's a lot of water. Not aquatic water, but, like, we need, like, a fresh stream. Like, there's that ozonic quality you get when you stand by a waterfall or by an ocean wave. Breaking moisture in our fragrances, hydrating something. If any perfumers listening. I hope you're taking notes and create for us. Thank you.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jen Sullivan]

What do you.

[Jess Matlin]

What do you guys think? What do you guys think?

[Jen Sullivan]

I feel like, okay, call us.

[Jess Matlin]

Call us.

[Jen Sullivan]

Six, four, six. Also, I love when you just call and leave random. Like, you could just call to say anything. I love the Spotify comments. P.S. please keep them coming because then people can, like, respond directly to the episode. So I know exactly what they're talking about. But text me or call me and just like, go ahead and talk because, you know I'm gonna listen. It's gonna come up on the show. 646-4818182. What do you want in a fragrance? And what are you seeing? Yes. As far as other trends as well, because we're not the only people that are predicting. I know there's a lot of industry people that listen and smart listeners let us know. Speaking of people calling us, let's go raise some wands.

[Acast Representative]

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[Jen Sullivan]

Okay, it is time to raise a wand. I think we're done with the holiday candles. Everybody can agree. What else do you want to talk about? Here's what it is. I got this call from Anonymous in Toronto to give some perspective on the conversation we were having about GLP1s. I'll let her take it away.

[Anonymous]

Hey dress and Jen, this is Anonymous calling from Toronto. I am calling to both simultaneously raise a wand and also to inform a little bit. So I'm calling to raise a wand to Ozemp, technically Semaglutide. I have been on it for about a year now. I have been in the health and wellness space for going on over 15 years now, working at it professionally. And you guys made comments about how a stylist was saying it's really starting to affect people's hair. You guys are saying it usually takes a long time for these new drugs to really start showing up with people showing long term side effects. GLP1 agonists, as they're formerly known, have actually been used for quite a while. We're talking like 15 plus years in the mainstream. It's really only now just like hitting real mainstream folks. So it's not that it's new per se. So we actually do have a significant amount of research to show what these longer effects are with people. A lot of the ozempic face, the hair thinning, the loss of gloss in the hair skin effects. This is part and parcel with just a very low calorie diet. So you're talking about people who went from eating surplus calories to now barely scratching a thousand. So when you see people with ozempic face and Ozempic butt, they've just lost a lot of fat in their body and they've lost a lot of muscle too, because typically they don't coincide weight training. So it's not the GLP1 agonist that is necessarily to be blamed. It is a very low calorie diet and all of these side effects come along with that hair thinning loss of luster in the skin. Those standard things that people are now starting to relate with Ozempic actually really just coincides with the low calorie diet. I am raising a wand. However, excuse my ramble because it has been game changing for me. Though I have been in the, well, the wellness space now for a considerable amount of time, I have always been a chronic overeater and just an absolute insatiable appetite. For the first time in my life, I'm able to eat a maintenance set of calories in a day and not feel like I'm starving. I feel like I have control over crazy voices and food noises and my head that I never had control over before. It's brought a tremendous reduction in anxiety and has immensely boost my self confidence. I started with a low dose and titrated up. I had no side effects other than a little bit of sleepiness, but that went away pretty quickly. So it's been life changing and it can be if used responsibly. Thanks guys. Love the pod. Take care.

[Jen Sullivan]

Anonymous like, do you want your contributor spot on the show? I think that you've. I think you've really added to the conversation. Like certainly clearly we didn't spell it out, but I was thinking what you were thinking, which is like you're eating less food and so your hair doesn't look as good. And that's part of it. Not necessarily the drug itself is causing beauty and health issues, but I'm glad it's working for you. I want you to be healthy and happy. I'm sorry you were tired but. But that went away. I just love when a topic really talks to someone specifically and then they call us and let us know their side of it. So that was great. Thank you. Raise a wand to her and also the drug that's making her feel better. I have new homework though.

[Jess Matlin]

Jess, what's your homework?

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay, here's what it is. So I think it was when I was re editing Jamie Greenberg's episode, which was our most popular episode of 2024, and she was talking about cleaning her brushes with Zote soap, whatever it is, the pink soap that a lot of people use. I've used the same product for a while, but every time I have to wash my makeup brushes, I feel like there goes 45 minutes of my life. And I know that doesn't seem like a lot of times.

[Jess Matlin]

No, that's why I like rarely clean them. It's really bad.

[Jen Sullivan]

But like think about it. 45 minutes and you can't be watching TV like Jess and Also doing the Lima laser. That is 45 minutes where my hands are in water, messing up my manicure. I am doing physical labor. It's just so time consuming. I've seen all the hacks of like, put them in the washer. I was like, I'm not putting my beautiful hourglass brush.

[Jess Matlin]

Somebody said to put your makeup brush.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. Some people put their makeup brushes in the washing machine.

[Jess Matlin]

That's the most insane thing I've ever heard.

[Jen Sullivan]

I've seen it also with beauty blenders and sponges, which seemed like a little bit less crazy, but they're getting just thrown around in there. That is not safe. So I just had happen to me of. It was. I'll tell you what it was. It was a La Prairie brush from a while ago. All of the bristles just fell out of the ferrule. Not because I don't think it's a. It's a quality brush. I think I had been putting the whole head of it under the water. And every time I talk to makeup artists, they're like, just put the bristles, don't put the ferrule.

[Jess Matlin]

And that means you have to hold it. You've got to be very active in the process.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right. So you have to like control where the water's going so it doesn't go too close to the handle or the ferrule. It's just on the bristles. But then you said, I also think I'm just complaining now. This is not a raisin wand, but I need your help, listeners. I also think because makeup has gotten so much better and so long wearing that it sticks to the brushes longer.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, I think that's a really.

[Jen Sullivan]

That's very possible something's going on. I remember when I cleaned my brushes 10 years ago. I don't. Or maybe I had more patience or time for like cleaning brushes. I need a new way to do this, people. I am so.

[Jess Matlin]

You need help. You need help. You need help.

[Jen Sullivan]

I do not need a device that plugs in. Do not make me buy some like toaster oven sized thing that's gonna radiate away the bacteria. No, thank you.

[Jess Matlin]

You. You don't need a skincare brush. Cleaning fridge, toaster, Micro easy bake.

[Jen Sullivan]

You laugh, but I know that exists out there. And I've seen them on Tik Tok and I don't want to do that. I don't have room for that. I live in 800 square feet. I live in Brooklyn, New York. We don't have room for extra devices. I have room for a really Good soap, something manual, some liquid.

[Jess Matlin]

Huge houses. Do you ever notice that?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes. Well, I'm not one of them, and I need help. The homework, everybody. How do you clean your makeup brushes? I also know there's people out there. And I used to do this, and I'm guilty. Who are like, you know what? This one's too far gone. I'm just throwing it out and buying a new one because there's some nice, inexpensive brushes now. I don't like that idea. I don't like that idea.

[Jess Matlin]

What's your favorite makeup brush? Is it. Was it that.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's an hourglass brush, actually.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, the one with the snake on it?

[Jen Sullivan]

Yeah. And I know she makes it. Not there's one without the snake on it, but it's like. It's a thin, domed blush brush that also can do all over face blending.

[Jess Matlin]

I have that one.

[Jen Sullivan]

You could even run it on your eye orbit. It's not, like, too big that it couldn't go there. It just is. If I pack a brush when I'm traveling and I only need one brush, that's the brush I'm packing. And it has lasted. And I wash it a lot. So I don't know. What's everybody doing?

[Jess Matlin]

Honestly, I use that thrive little. It's like a little acrylic. Not acrylic, silicone thing you put on your hand. I have one of those, and it's okay. But, like, I don't feel like my brushes ever get, like, super clean. But that's because I probably don't spend the time that I should.

[Jen Sullivan]

Right. I keep going, and I'm like, it's still running. Peach. The water's peach. And then I'm like, you know what? So what? The water's a little peach. I'm not keeping going till it's clear what's going on. Talk to us, people. I know there's makeup artists that listen. I know you all have this figured out. You're so much smarter than me. 646, 448, 18182. Okay, I'm done. That's the homework.

[Jess Matlin]

What's your razor wand?

[Jen Sullivan]

Oh. Remember how I got really into setting spray over the summer, and I was asking. Oh, right. I'm into setting spray over the winter too. And I found one that I'm really liking. It's makeup by Mario, and he was the one who told me to get into setting spray, but he didn't yet have one. I know everybody loves the Patrick Star one size setting spray. It's great. I just feel like It's a little bit heavy feeling on my skin. It definitely holds the makeup. This one has a fine mist, sets the makeup. And I used to say, oh my God, my face eats makeup. The blush is gone, whatever. I just wasn't setting it cuz I didn't like the way they felt. They felt like hairspray on your face and they've gotten better. So if you tried, if you're like me and you tried setting spray and you were like, I feel like I'm shellacking my face with lacquer. The new ones are really good. So his just came out, I guess, 2024.

[Jess Matlin]

Does it have a finish?

[Jen Sullivan]

The finish is a natural dewy.

[Jess Matlin]

Oh, that's. I'm seeing the way it goes on.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's.

[Jess Matlin]

It's not like.

[Jen Sullivan]

See that mist?

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, it's a mist. It's not like a wet spritz. It's a mist.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's nice, but the finish gives a very little bit of glow. But not.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, I see it.

[Jen Sullivan]

Melted popsicle.

[Jess Matlin]

Really nice. Melted popsicle. Very nice.

[Jen Sullivan]

I didn't say that. Somebody, another writer at the cut. I give her credit.

[Jess Matlin]

Very nice.

[Jen Sullivan]

What are you raising a wand to?

[Jess Matlin]

I am raising a wand to a mascara that I stumbled upon. And Jen, I think you would like this one. So there I was, road trippin with my family on the holidays and I forgot my mascara. No can do.

[Jen Sullivan]

I wouldn't be able to make it. I'd also need a curler, but go on.

[Jess Matlin]

A curler would be best. But I don't always curl. Sometimes I just. I know I should curl, but sometimes I just can't. Like, I'm not in the mood.

[Jen Sullivan]

I always freaked out and got a new mascara.

[Jess Matlin]

So I said we need to get mascara. But we popped into Marshall's to get some last minute little gifty bits. And I wasn't thinking about getting mascara while I was there. But of course I was looking at the beauty things and the socks and all that little stuff. They had so much mascara there. And I know we talk about sometimes beauty things at marshalls and TJ's and all that. Like, how do they end up there. I actually feel very comfortable buying beauty things there.

[Jen Sullivan]

Especially now that you're a retailer and know how the whole process works. I'm sure that's added to like, okay, I know where this came from. It's not from eight years ago.

[Jess Matlin]

I mean, you have to hope. Hope, right? You do have to hope. Like, make sure it's like not open. Yeah, right, right, right. But like, you have to hope people are checking their bin codes and all that stuff. But. But they had. Hopefully Clinique is not going to be annoyed that I didn't buy this from a direct Clinique retailer. But I'm going to tell you how amazing this Clinique mascara is. I got this Clinique mascara that I'd never tried before called Lash Power Mascara. Long wearing formula. I got it in dark brown, which I didn't even realize. Dark chocolate, which I didn't even realize until I got home.

[Jen Sullivan]

Years upon years.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah, exactly. And it was actually really flattering. So don't sleep on dark chocolate mascara. It's a tubing mascara. It doesn't say it on their site, but it comes off in little tubes. It doesn't smudge. The whole thing is. It resists flaking and smudging. But when you take it off, it comes off and like, like neat little bits. This mascara opened my eyes. The little wand is very short and it's small, relatively short. It's skinny and it's small. It allows you to go in and kind of create the shape that you want. It's just very different from a lot of mascaras that I've tried from Clinique and also just like a lot of larger brands. And I created a beautiful shape and the dark chocolate was very flattering, especially for like redheads. You know how we talked about low contrast, high makeup, high contrast and like people. People are like really responding to that.

[Jen Sullivan]

Yes, yes.

[Jess Matlin]

If you are a low contrast person, go for the dark chocolate because it's like a really rich mascara, but it's going to give you that definition that you need.

[Jen Sullivan]

I love that. I think of you as like a medium to low contrast.

[Jess Matlin]

Yeah. Medium to low.

[Jen Sullivan]

But this is also good as like as you enter your mini facelift years.

[Jess Matlin]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jen Sullivan]

Not you. But one a dark brown tubing so it doesn't smudge with extra skin around the eyes.

[Jess Matlin]

Is exact. This is, this is such a forgiving mascara.

[Jen Sullivan]

Forgiving high power.

[Jess Matlin]

It's a, it's a forgiving low. It's a forgiving mascara for low contrast people who can't.

[Jen Sullivan]

What if it was just like. What if a beauty marker is like, were just tired and they're just like, you know, let's just do like the 40 plus mascara. Here you go. 40 plus mascara.

[Jess Matlin]

This is your perfect 40 plus mascara. It's also a great mascara for redheads and like ginger people.

[Jen Sullivan]

I love that. Also dark brown. I love that.

[Jess Matlin]

It's really hard to find a dark chocolate mascara. It's, and it's, it's not like light brown. It really is like, I thought it was black for like two days.

[Jen Sullivan]

It has to be deep so it still gives you that impact. Raise a wand.

[Jess Matlin]

Yes.

[Jen Sullivan]

Okay, we are going into 2025. I don't know what, what the mood is, but it's interesting. And Friday we have, we have some more predictions coming from a very exciting episode from I'm just gonna call her our South Korea correspondent because I've just anointed her that. But in the meantime, lots of fun stuff planned for 2025. But in the meantime, get your beauty sleep. We'll see you on Friday.

[Jess Matlin]

We hope you enjoyed the show.

[Jen Sullivan]

It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email yourself thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your.

[Jess Matlin]

Beauty questions and hear what products you love to share a raise, a one product review, or to ask a beauty question. Email us at infoatmascara.

[Jen Sullivan]

If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646-481-8182.

[Jess Matlin]

Thanks so much for listening.

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