Ep. 564: Sephora Birthday Parties, Renuva & The Week’s Beauty News

Summary

Episode Summary: Ep. 564: Sephora Birthday Parties, Renuva & The Week’s Beauty News

Fat Mascara, hosted by Jennifer Sullivan and Jessica Matlin, dives deep into the latest happenings in the beauty industry. In Episode 564, released on February 5, 2025, Jen and Garrett explore a variety of topics ranging from innovative cosmetic treatments to emerging beauty trends among younger demographics. Here's a comprehensive breakdown of the episode's key discussions and insights.

Unilever Press Trip: Exploring New Beauty Innovations

Garrett kicks off the conversation by sharing his experiences from an exclusive Unilever press trip in Sedona, Arizona. He highlights Unilever's commitment to showcasing new products across their extensive portfolio, including beloved brands like Dove, Shea Moisture, and Tresemme.

[02:15] Garrett: “Basically, the idea is we were with them for like three days and they present all the new stuff for the year to us from brands such as Dove, Dove Men + Care, Shea Moisture, Nexus, Tresemme...”

A standout moment was Garrett's introduction to the new Dove Men + Care Body Scrub, designed specifically to cater to men with body hair. He praises its effectiveness in exfoliating without leaving residue tangled in hair.

[04:31] Garrett: “I used this really cool new Dove Men + Care body scrub yesterday. Ooh, that was wonderful. And I'm not a scrub person, but this one does not [get caught in body hair], which I think is really interesting.”

Jen's P Volve Experience: A Tough but Rewarding Workout

Transitioning from beauty products to wellness, Jen recounts her first experience with a P Volve class—a Pilates evolution program known for its intense core and balance training. After a year-long hiatus from exercising, Jen admits struggling with the class's demanding movements.

[07:24] Jen: “I did like an intense class this morning... there's a lot of core work and a lot of balancing on one leg while the other leg is doing things with bands. My outer thigh muscles have been woken up. I am burning down there.”

Garrett empathizes, sharing his own challenging experiences with Reformer Pilates, highlighting the physical demands and the meticulous control required.

[08:52] Garrett: “I went through a phase where I did like Reformer Pilates for like a month. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life...”

Bathhouses: A Nexus for Social and Business Interactions

The hosts delve into the evolving role of bathhouses in modern social and business contexts. Garrett shares his positive experiences using bathhouses as alternative venues for business meetings, emphasizing their relaxing environment devoid of alcohol.

[11:05] Garrett: “We've had business meetings at bath houses before... it's a great place to be. It was relaxing, and it was a different experience...”

Jen reveals plans to invite a bathhouse expert to future episodes to discuss cultural perceptions and the resurgence of bathhouses as community hubs.

[14:23] Garrett: “We have a friend who's working with bathhouses around the country... why are Americans so behind on this whole thing?”

Kiehl's "Pubic Hair Don't Care" Campaign: Breaking Taboos

A significant portion of the episode addresses Kiehl's controversial new ad campaign titled "Pubic Hair Don't Care." The campaign features models with visible pubic hair, which initially were modestly censored on social media platforms. The hosts debate the rationale behind the censorship and the campaign's bold statement against societal taboos.

[17:31] Garrett: “I saw those images and I didn't know they were censored until this new campaign came out. It was like the angle from the camera was looking up at the models...”

Jen questions the inconsistency in social media censorship policies, noting the lack of nudity in Kiehl's ads.

[19:02] Jen: “I just don't get why these were censored. How is the hair? It wasn’t nudity...”

Garrett reflects on historical perspectives, mentioning the Tom Ford Gucci ads from the early 2000s that also faced censorship for similar content.

[18:52] Garrett: “Those were censored, but they were super controversial, obviously, because it's Tom Ford.”

Embracing Natural Body Hair: Trends and Cultural Shifts

Building on the Kiehl's discussion, Jen and Garrett explore the broader trend towards embracing natural body hair. They reference the use of merkins in fashion shows and the shifting attitudes among Gen Z towards body positivity.

[21:45] Garrett: “There's something bubbling happening about pubic hair in general right now. Vogue did a story about Gen Z being more into natural body hair.”

Jen shares insights from her recent interviews, highlighting personal stories of individuals regretting excessive hair removal and embracing their natural selves.

[25:00] Jen: “An anonymous person shared her story about lasering off pubic hair and regretting it. Ella Emhoff is also advocating for natural body hair with her pubic hair oil campaign.”

Renuva: The Next-Generation Injectable Treatment

One of the episode's standout discussions revolves around Renuva, a groundbreaking injectable treatment offering a novel approach to fat transfer without the need for surgical procedures like liposuction. Jen introduces Renuva, explaining its composition and application.

[37:56] Jen: “Renuva is extracellular matrix from adipose tissue. It’s donated human fat treated to remove all cells, leaving only the extracellular matrix.”

Garrett expresses fascination and skepticism, probing into how Renuva differentiates from traditional fillers and its implications in the current Ozempic-influenced beauty landscape.

[44:49] Garrett: “Especially in the context of our Ozempic culture now. People are so into getting rid of fat, but then want it back in certain places.”

Jen elaborates on the treatment's effectiveness, noting its natural integration into the body and potential applications in areas like hands and facial regions.

[50:47] Jen: “Renuva doesn't introduce foreign substances. It's treated human fat that integrates naturally, providing a uniform look without the need for liposuction.”

Sephora Birthday Parties: The New Craze Among Tweens

Jen and Garrett examine the emerging trend of Sephora birthday parties for tweens and teens, inspired by an article from Business of Fashion. These parties offer interactive experiences where young attendees can explore beauty products, making it a blend of celebration and education.

[27:55] Garrett: “There was an article about tweens having birthday parties at Sephora. I find it really hilarious and actually, kind of genius.”

While acknowledging the potential consumerism concerns, Jen offers a balanced perspective, noting that these parties can also serve as educational platforms.

[29:14] Jen: “In one case, 12-year-olds received $20 Sephora gift cards to shop, which raises questions about consumerism. However, another example included scavenger hunts that made the experience fun and interactive.”

Garrett compares this trend to past birthday party norms, reflecting on the evolving interests of younger generations.

[28:18] Garrett: “Back in the 80s, we wanted birthday parties at McDonald's or roller skating rinks. Now it's Sephora or Glossier.”

Raised Wand: Listener Fragrance Suggestions and Beauty Hacks

In the Raised Wand segment, listeners contribute their favorite fragrances and beauty tips. Notable recommendations include Liquid Love by Penhaligon’s and Maya M.A.Y. perfume, both praised for their captivating scents.

[54:38] Listener (Katie from Chicago): “Liquid Love by Penhaligon’s has notes of rose, sandalwood, and sparkling ginger. It's very sparkly and costs $275 for 100ml.”

Garrett introduces Eucalyptus 20 from Le Labo, describing its invigorating and sensual notes, while Jen shares her own fragrance experiences and beauty hacks, such as layering Vaseline with perfume to enhance longevity.

[58:33] Garrett: “Eucalyptus 20 makes me feel like I'm walking into a chic spa and stays on my skin long enough to create a memorable scent experience.”

[63:22] Jen: “One hack is to apply Vaseline to pulse points before spraying your fragrance. It acts like glue, making the scent last longer.”

Closing Thoughts: The Interplay of Beauty and Well-Being

As the episode wraps up, Jen and Garrett reflect on the intricate relationship between beauty practices and personal well-being. They emphasize the importance of choices that make individuals feel comfortable and confident, free from societal pressures.

[50:47] Garrett: “I think whenever there's new stuff to make people feel better and achieve what they want out of their bodies, I'm on board as long as it's safe.”

[61:51] Jen: “This brings up the idea that beauty isn't just about vanity; it's also about mental health and how we feel about ourselves.”

Conclusion

Episode 564 of Fat Mascara offers a rich tapestry of discussions that bridge product innovations, cultural shifts, and personal wellness within the beauty industry. From pioneering injectable treatments like Renuva to the latest trends in natural body hair and interactive beauty-centric birthday parties, Jen and Garrett provide insightful commentary that resonates with both beauty enthusiasts and casual listeners alike. Their balanced approach, underscored by expert opinions and listener interactions, makes this episode a valuable resource for staying informed about the dynamic world of beauty.

Transcript

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[Jen]

Welcome to Fat Mascara. It's Jen. It's Garrett. I just have to say Garrett just said I look like Joe Rogan.

[Garrett]

Only because you're wearing like a hoodie and a baseball cap.

[Jen]

Hi Garrett. Welcome, welcome.

[Garrett]

Hi. I'm coming at you live from Sedona, Arizona today.

[Jen]

Oh yeah you are. That's why your background's different. What are you doing in Sedona?

[Garrett]

I am on a press trip right now. I know you have been on this trip before. Unilever does an annual press trip.

[Jen]

I got. They stopped inviting me to that years ago. I run my big old mouth on this podcast. Not for you.

[Garrett]

I have to be honest, this is one of my favorite trips of the year. Cause it's so fun and they do a great job of. Basically the idea is we were with them for like three days and they present all the new stuff for the.

[Jen]

Year to us from brands such as.

[Garrett]

Dove, Dove, Dove Men plus Care, Shea Moisture, Nexus, Tresemme, all of the Unilever. It's mostly, like, skin and hair and like deodorant. But, you know, Unilever has. I mean, I might be drinking the koolaid a little bit. Cause I'm here. But I do feel like they're a great.

[Jen]

It's not the trip to Sedona, Arizona that's doing it. No. You've always been a fan of some of those brands that you just shouted.

[Garrett]

Out when you get to. And the cool thing about it, too, is that it's not just editors. Like, they bring a lot of their scientists to come explain technology to us. And I know you and I both love, like, a interactive demo.

[Jen]

Oh, yeah.

[Garrett]

And I've spent the last two days doing nonstop interactive demos. And they're so fun. It's just engaging and interesting, and you get to hear about technology and all of that stuff. So it's always really fun.

[Jen]

All the products you're learning about are just starting to go on shelves now.

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Jen]

Okay. So when I see you next month, you can tell me about some of this stuff.

[Garrett]

I mean, I can tell you about it all now because it's all. They changed the timing this year, so nothing is embargoed, whereas usually they used to be earlier and so we wouldn't be able to talk about stuff for a while.

[Jen]

Yeah. But every. It's a digital journal, so it's like, we need to talk right away. Okay, Exactly. I don't need the whole run through of the entire. But has anything stood out to you in their product lineup?

[Garrett]

I'm trying to think what has stood out in terms. Well, one of the cool things that I love, too, is that in our. Because part of the trip is like, you know, you have a hotel room, whatever they like, stock your room with all the new products, so you have to try everything, like, on your own. So I've been, like, using. I used this really cool new Dove Men plus Care body scrub yesterday. Ooh, that was wonderful. And I'm not a scrub person, but I also stood up and publicly said this in front of everyone that I don't like scrubs because they get caught in my body hair. And this one does not. Which I think is a really interesting.

[Jen]

I literally was gonna ask you about that, and I was like, is that too personal? But, like, for guys. Yeah. If you have body hair, they can be tricky.

[Garrett]

Yeah. And one of my favorite things about when they do the demos is that they usually will have a competitor and that we had to compare it to. And the one that they used that they showed us for the scrub was like, one of those, like, classic sugar scrubs.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Garrett]

That was so gross. And I was like, I would be picking this out of my chest hair for, like, the entire day if I tried to use it.

[Jen]

Yeah, the sugar dissolves in hot enough water, but, yeah, they're often like, a whipped gooey kind of texture, and they're chunky, and it's like, a smoother person might like that. I don't know. I'm thinking of, like, Tree Hut and their body scrubs. I love their, like, jelly texture.

[Garrett]

Yeah, those are for people that have no body hair.

[Jen]

Okay, noted. You're not gonna like my Raizo on then, but when we get to Razo on, we'll talk about it. So what else do you get to, like, experience Sedona?

[Garrett]

Yeah, we're actually. Right after we record right now, we're gonna go on a hike to a vortex. An energetic vortex.

[Jen]

Well, you know, I'm gonna need to hear about that.

[Garrett]

I'm so stoked. I have a bit of a woo woo streak, so I'm very excited about the vortex. They have a coming later today that we can go see. Yesterday they did, like, a chakra thing that I did not end up going to Sedona's. Like, it's a vibe for sure. And just. It's so beautiful, the red rocks. And it's been snowing here the last two days, so that has been really interesting just to be in the desert, but it's snowing.

[Jen]

Maybe if I talk about Dove every episode until next year, they'll invite me so you and I can hang out on whatever the trip is.

[Garrett]

I think we should just, next year do, like, a live episode. And Julie's here, too, so we could do, like a three fur.

[Jen]

We got. Someone could take all four of us, I bet, somewhere. And we can. Yeah. All right. Go on.

[Garrett]

That would be really fun.

[Jen]

Don't worry, listeners. You'll be there with us.

[Garrett]

I really. I just. I think that they do such a good job on this, on these trips, so. And it's always somewhere different every year, so that's always very exciting as well. So that's why I'm here. I'm coming on here.

[Jen]

And that's why I look like Joe Rogan. Well, I do. It's just the hat is that or the hoodie or both.

[Garrett]

I just. I've never seen you in, like, athletic wear.

[Jen]

It was just funny to me because I'm such. I was such. This is the thing. I was such an athlete, but I did Want to tell you, you'd be proud of me. I did like an intense class this morning.

[Garrett]

What kind of class?

[Jen]

P Volve. I've never heard of it. I guess it's like Pilates evolved. As you know, I'm on a two woman quest with Jessica to have Jennifer Aniston come on the podcast. Like, first of all, I love Lola V. But they were. She, Jennifer Aniston, I guess is an investor in P Volve. So one of her favorite exercise classes is this class. And so Lola V was like, oh, we're doing a class, do you want to come? And I. All right. But I have not exercised in a year. Do not start with P Volve.

[Garrett]

Oh gosh.

[Jen]

There's bands. There's a lot of core work and a lot of like balancing on one leg while the other leg is doing things with bands. There are tiny muscles in my outer thighs that I did not even know I have or I probably used to know I have. And they have been woken up. The kraken has been released. Like I am burning down there. So I'm in post workout gear. That's what's going on.

[Garrett]

Do a lot of stretching tonight.

[Jen]

Okay, I will do that. Stretching I'm good at. I'll do my aloe yoga, use code fat mascara.

[Garrett]

Pull up one of those stretching classes and just do.

[Jen]

Yeah, like one of the. Actually the stretching things are really good. Cause some of them are only 10 minutes and then. But you get into positions that you wouldn't on your own. So I'm gonna do that.

[Garrett]

Those classes are hard. You know, I work out a lot. I love to like lift up. We know Garrett, but my sister in law teaches barrel and whenever I do a class with her, I like cannot walk the next day.

[Jen]

I think this borrowed from the bar vocabulary if you were the Pilates. A lot of that. Like you're lengthening out your arm length and then bringing it back and the movements are so controlled and I'm just like a chaos agent. So like I played rugby and water polo for God's sakes. In college. Like the most destructive sports. Like I'm not used to these really slow and like controlled movements and wow, it burns in a different way.

[Garrett]

Oh, totally. I used to do. I went through a phase where I did like Reformer Pilates for like a month. And I. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Like anytime that you have to do it really slow.

[Jen]

Seven on a reformer. I can't even picture it.

[Garrett]

I was like falling off the reformer. I could not do it. It was really hard. Everyone else was, like, so good. And I was like, I am ashamed of myself.

[Jen]

You were humbled.

[Garrett]

It's a whole. I mean, that is such a good workout. That style of exercise is so.

[Jen]

It really is.

[Garrett]

Cause you said it's like. It's all the little muscles. It's those, like, my fascia. Yeah, your fascia is, like, inflamed right now. You have to, like, lengthen.

[Jen]

It's gonna succeed. Welcome. Welcome to our workout podcast. It's where two people who. Well, actually, you know a lot about health and wellness, but I'm on the mic here talking. I don't even know if fascia get involved when you're. I should say clearly.

[Listener]

Clearly.

[Garrett]

I'm sure it.

[Jen]

Clearly.

[Garrett]

I'm sure it's got to. Cause, like, think about those times where, like, you get, like, a charley horse. It feels like your muscles, but I feel like your fascia has got to react to that sensation.

[Jen]

Yeah. You guys come here for the beauty expertise and analysis and context and maybe go to Joe Rogan. No. Who does the workout podcast. I don't even know the most popular.

[Garrett]

Workout podcast, but I'm sure that there's plenty out there.

[Jen]

Let's ease our way. We need to talk back in beauty. Is there any beauty treatments? Did you get a spa treatment? Did you, like, get a spa?

[Garrett]

I didn't do any spa treatments here, but yesterday it was snowing and I didn't go on. They had a hike option. I did not. I skipped it, and I went to the hot tub instead and did my own little hydrotherapy session. I know you guys have been talking about bathing culture lately.

[Jen]

Yes, we talked about bathhouses, Julie and.

[Garrett]

I. I am such a fan of bath houses and bathing. I've written many stories about it, and I do it all the time. I've actually had business meetings at bath houses before.

[Jen]

I mentioned that because that show I went to, they said that people do that.

[Garrett]

I think it's awesome.

[Jen]

Wait, were you clothed?

[Garrett]

No. I mean, I was in a swimsuit. We were in swimsuits.

[Jen]

Okay. You were in a swimsuit. Okay. I don't know. Why? Because when I was in Japan, I went to bathhouse. It was, like, full naked, but it was also. Anyway, so you were clothed and you had a business meeting?

[Garrett]

Listen, there are plenty of bathhouses out there where you're not allowed to wear clothes. It's, like, usually, like, the Korean style or the Japanese style or whatever. Like, that's just their culture, and that's fine. I would not Recommend choosing that kind of bathhouse for a business meeting. Unless you're very good friends with that person.

[Jen]

Okay. Okay.

[Garrett]

But there's been a lot of new bath houses opening in, like, New York. There's a place literally called Bath House. And I've gone there a few times with, like, people to have meetings. Cause I also don't drink, so I feel like I'm always looking for new things to do.

[Jen]

A bunch of the people I talked to were sober. Yeah. And they were like, I love that it's something social. And one of them has a tea house in it. And it's social, but you don't have to do it over alcohol.

[Garrett]

Yeah. I feel like in terms of meetings and, like, business stuff, the default is to go for drinks. Right. But I'm, like, not into that. And usually if I go, I won't drink, obviously. But I'm always looking for other alternatives. And as long as you're, like, comfortable with that. I mean, I also, frankly, I hate wearing clothes. So, like, I'm totally fine with that kind of vibe. But as long as you know that the other person is also okay with that, it's a great place to be. Like, when I was in France at the Evian Spa in the fall, one of my friends who owns a men's skincare company was like, oh, I'm in Geneva. I'm, like, 45 minutes away. He came over. We had, like, a whole sauna section. And like. Yeah, we were, like, in the sauna, the pools. It was awesome. And it was such a good way to catch up with him and see him. But also, it was relaxing, and it was a different experience. And it didn't involve alcohol or food or, you know, anything like that.

[Jen]

So I think it's great. I see this taking. I ended up after the discussion with Julie because she had some thoughts as well. I was like, I need to get an expert in here. So I am having the guy. Come on. He actually started. I'm just gonna give a preview right now. Cause whatever. I'll give away this for our special listeners. He started the High Line here in New York, but he is now working with a bathhouse group that owns some bathhouses around the country, not in the United States. And what I want to talk to him about is like, why am I asking about being nude or not? Why are Americans so behind on this whole thing, how he got into it and all of that? Maybe I should bring you in to talk with him.

[Garrett]

Yeah. I'm curious to hear what he says. Because one of the Things that I recently wrote about was there's this bath, natural hot spring bath in Virginia, where my family is from. And it turns out to be like one of the oldest wellness baths in the country. It was founded before the Declaration of Independence was written. And back then, that was the thing. Like, it was like a community hub.

[Jen]

Yeah. I mean, that goes back to ancient times, right? Cause you would go to the springs. Cause that's where water was.

[Garrett]

Totally. So this whole idea of, like, the way that the US Culture thinks about bathhouses and bathing in terms of a negative thing.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Garrett]

Is new.

[Jen]

I bet we can blame the Victorian era and the Brits. That's my guess. I'm gonna ask them. You know, everybody got all prudish for a little bit there.

[Garrett]

Although, honestly. Yeah. It's like. But even in the uk, like, there's bath, which is like an entire town built around a Roman bath.

[Jen]

Okay, we're gonna get into all of this. I gotta do some homework. Clearly.

[Garrett]

I'm so excited to hear that.

[Jen]

You should have come to the Variety show with me. I wonder if they'll do another one.

[Garrett]

I wanted to really bad. I was out of town, that's why.

[Jen]

Okay, well, if they do another, we're going to go together. It was fun.

[Garrett]

Absolutely. Maybe it'll be in a bathhouse.

[Jen]

We could do a live podcast in a bathhouse.

[Garrett]

I'm in. I'm in.

[Jen]

What do you think the sound would be? Okay, I got to work on this. All right. We have a lot to. We should really get into the podcast. Hey. Hi, everybody. Welcome to our podcast about beauty culture. Let's go. Let's go do the noose.

[Garrett]

Foreign.

[Jen]

Here in New York City.

[Listener]

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[Jen]

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[Listener]

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[Jen]

Okay, time for the news.

[Garrett]

We're back. So I wanted to bring this up. I think this is really interesting about the new Kiehl's advertising campaign. Yes, let me look up the exact it's called Pubic Hair don't care. So I guess this is a response to they launched like a pubic intimate line and they had images of models with visible pubic hair and they were censored.

[Jen]

I saw those images and I didn't know they were censored until this new campaign came out. Same.

[Garrett]

I didn't really think that those those images were that if you haven't seen.

[Jen]

Them it's like the angle from the camera was looking up at the models. It was a male model and a female model and just like at the edge of their underwear was a little bit of hair as it would be if you did not wax or laser it all off.

[Garrett]

Right.

[Jen]

I mean why were they censored did they. They share why?

[Garrett]

I think it was just they kind of blamed people's like, skeeviness around pubic hair. I didn't think that the images were overtly sex sexual in any way. I mean, it made me. This whole idea made me think about. Remember those Tom Ford Gucci ads in underwear? It was like pulling down the underwear and they had shaved G's into the pubes. And there was also that one of the female model trimming the male models.

[Jen]

I forgot about. Those were like 20 years ago, right?

[Garrett]

Yeah, that was like early 2000s. And those.

[Jen]

Did those get censored?

[Garrett]

They were censored, but they were super controversial, obviously, because it's Tom Ford. He's like, that's what his goal was.

[Jen]

I just don't get why these were censored. How is the hair? I get you can't see breasts on social media and everything like that. Even if it's like breastfeeding, which annoys me. But like, okay, where do you draw the line with nudity? But this wasn't nudity.

[Garrett]

No. Which is why I think it's so weird. Like, there's no actual nudity. It was just a slightly visible pubic hair. So now they've kind of. They don't have models in this new campaign, but apparently the words are made from actual pubic hair, which they haven't said whose pubic hair it is.

[Jen]

Right. So I've seen them. So the lettering itself, if you, like, look closer, it looks like a textured, brownish, yellowish whatever it is. And then if you look close, it's piles of pubic hair swept into the shape of the letters to spell out the campaign, asking for trouble.

[Garrett]

I mean, personally. Personally, I find that to be grosser than the actual pubic hair, which I.

[Jen]

Think is what they were doing. Cause they were like, okay, censors on social media. We see you. If you wouldn't let us show hair connected to a human body in a very natural place without nudity. Here it is separated from the humans. You can't say this is sexual in any way yet. It's actually a lot grosser. I love that they did that. I think they were, like, annoyed and rightfully so. And also a little controversy. Never hurts to make some noise for public relations.

[Garrett]

Totally. I love that it's kind of like an F you to, like, these weirdly unnecessary rules of what we can and cannot show on social media. Like, I find it always really weird that, like, men can show their butts, but, like, women can't sometimes. Or like, versus well, y'all can show.

[Jen]

Your nipples and we can't.

[Garrett]

Well, yeah, well, there's that for sure. Like, yeah, but, like, I just think it's so odd. And it also brings up. I've noticed there's something bubbling happening about just pubic hair in general right now. Like, I mean, you wrote about laser regret recently.

[Jen]

Oh, I just published this last week. I had an anonymous person tell me the cut started a new column about, like, beauty treatments that you regret. And I've heard from multiple people over the years that they regretted lasering off all of their pubic hair. So I spoke to one of those people, and she shared her whole story, and it was basically like. Yeah, but she. She went there, she shared. We were talking about it, and you know the model, Ella Emhoff?

[Garrett]

Yeah.

[Jen]

She's Kamala Harris stepdaughter.

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Jen]

She's doing a campaign with Fur, the Pubic hair oil, for a different product. But when she doesn't groom her body hair and she has underarm hair, and she just talked about how the oil made her feel. Okay. About the choices that she made. Yeah, it's bubbling. What have you been seeing?

[Garrett]

Well, there's Vogue just did a story recently, or maybe it was late last year, about just in general, Gen Z and is just more into natural body hair. And, like, you know, there was that Margiela show last year with, like, the merkin, the visible merkin.

[Jen]

Was that the same show with the glass skin? Yes, it might have been. Yeah. And there were illusion draping of the clothing and inside. Ugh. That show was so gorgeous.

[Garrett]

It was incredible. But, like, one of the things that people remembered was he made underwear with merkins on that, like, on the outside.

[Jen]

A merkin, for those who know, is a pubic hair wig. Yes. I feel we all learned about that when Kate Winslet told us about it because she had to wear one in a movie.

[Garrett]

I mean, I. For some reason, I did some sort of research into the history of merkins once. So if you ever want to talk about the history of a merkin, like.

[Jen]

Why they were invented, can we talk about it right now? Why would you. Was this for, like, work?

[Garrett]

I'm sure it was for some reason, but merkins were invented because in, like, the 1500s, like, we're talking, like, Shakespeare's time, right, prostitutes would get pubic lice really easily.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Garrett]

So they would shave all of their pubic hair off, but then their customers liked a full bush, so they invented merkins for the prostitutes.

[Jen]

That's so funny, because now some people Think that when you're getting intimate, people like the look of a non full, like a lasered or clean. And that back then the style was a. Yeah, it's like effeminate and lush. I could see that. So they'd wear the wig and then meet their customer with the wig on.

[Garrett]

Yeah.

[Jen]

I have so many questions about logistics, but I'm gonna leave those for another time. I just think I've never seen Mirkin in person.

[Garrett]

I don't know. I've seen one in like a museum, I think, but I've never seen one like on a body.

[Jen]

This is another expert I need to have on like, oh, you know what, like a fa. There's actually fashion institute. There's some fashion historians that I always just love talking to fashion historians. We've had one or two on the show for beauty reasons, but never got into the merkin.

[Garrett]

They're fascinating, those guys. I mean, they're so knowledgeable. It's ins. But I also think, I mean it's to bring it full circle. Like it just talk, it speaks to like our relationships to pubic hair are constantly changing. Right. So like we're now seeing the pendulum swing back into a more talking about it being part of the body positivity, movement, all of that stuff. I'm not sure if I believe that. I just think that like body hair trends happen just the way that all other trends happen. It's funny because there's this pubic hair thing happening. But then I also was recently told that like more men are seeking out the more clean shaven look in terms of body hair. So it's like these things are all over the place. And for me it just means do what you want. People groom their body hair. I mean, I think it's. I groom my body hair because I like the way it looks, not because I want to seduce someone else. It's more like I feel more comfortable this way. So I think that like when you start changing your body hair for other people, that's problematic. But I'm like, just do whatever you want, whatever makes you feel good.

[Jen]

It's true. You can't deny though maybe you like the feeling physically, but you can't deny that the imagery we see and the way the culture is is affecting our confidence about our own body hair. Even if we're not gonna get intimate with anybody, like we might just think, oh, this looks neat and tidier. I really got into this with the woman that I interviewed for this story. Cause she was like, I actually don't know why I Did it. She was like. If I think about it, I never thought that was more attractive. She said she was a Virgo. She was like. I think I just wanted it to be like neat, which I get. Which is. That's totally understandable too. I guess some people don't feel comfortable with all the things that bodies do. Bodies are weird sometimes.

[Garrett]

You know, I feel like there's also a hygiene element.

[Jen]

Well, it goes back to even what you said about the 1500s.

[Garrett]

Totally. I've mentioned my waxing before. Like I could get into this more. But I wax certain areas of like my body because I'm a very active person and it helps me with sweat and.

[Jen]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course.

[Garrett]

Cleanliness. It just makes me feel cleaner and it has nothing to do with how it looks at all.

[Jen]

That's funny. I ended up getting my underarms lasered when I was doing a lot of marathon running. And so I was a long distance runner. And it started to hurt. Cause the hair would. It itches against the skin. And like you do you get chafing, right?

[Garrett]

Totally.

[Jen]

I mean, someone could say, well now I probably had more chafing because I don't have hair. But like you could put like body glide on it and then it was fine. That was what the product was called. Now there's all of them. Well, the product that they're advertising in the Kiehl's campaign, it's not even actually like fur oil. Like it's meant for the hair. It's meant for the. If you groom the hair for ingrowns and the skin conditioning. So I guess it's acknowledging. Sure. There was pubic hair in the image. This is for your skin next to the pubic hair. The levels of grooming differ. Like you might go all none or somewhere in between. You still have some. But on the edges you might get ingrowns where you shaved.

[Garrett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen]

It's like a choice, like choose what you want.

[Garrett]

Well, there's. Yeah. I think a lot of brands are launching intimate care collections or capsule lines or whatever that kind of run the gamut. Like I've seen Gillette has like an intimate line now that's unisex that has like a shave cream and a trimmer and all that, but also like an anti chafe stick. So like, I think it's cool that these brands are acknowledging that people want to do different things. And I think it's like it's refreshing and from a body hair standpoint that they're acknowledged that they're not saying we are only offering this because we think you should do this.

[Jen]

We're saying, yeah, it doesn't feel like the new beauty standard is everybody go shave off everything, and here's a way to do it.

[Garrett]

Right.

[Jen]

Yeah. The ad, though, here we are, like, barely knowing what the product is, and clearly the ad got more noise than the product. But I guess that's how the beauty PR works.

[Garrett]

Yeah, that's kind of the point.

[Jen]

All right, moving on. Garrett's been texting me about this literally for three days.

[Garrett]

Oh, my God.

[Jen]

Well, we've been texting a lot back and forth about the Sephora birthday party.

[Garrett]

Okay. So there was an article in Business of Fashion last week about how tweens and teens are now. I mean, they use Sephora as the example, but are wanting to have birthday parties at beauty stores, like, glossier Sephora. And I think it's really hilarious and actually, frankly, kind of genius.

[Jen]

You like this?

[Garrett]

I do like it. I mean, I do think that there are some iffy things. Like, I can see, like my parents, for instance, if I had brought this up when I was a tween, being a little weird about the consumerism of it all, but it brought me back to, like I said to you, I was like, in the 80s, we all wanted to have our birthday parties at McDonald's. At least I did and my friends did. I had my birthday party.

[Jen]

Okay, Virginia birthday parties were at McDonald's. It was the roller skating rink up in Philly. That's where you wanted to have your birthday party, but you need an activity. Like, it was like, what's the kid activity? What are kids into?

[Garrett]

Totally. It's like, you can't just have a party, right? You have to, like, go somewhere, do something. There has to be an activity, so.

[Jen]

Why not go where they want to be anyway?

[Garrett]

Yeah. I mean, if they're already there, they're already obsessed with Sephora or glossier or skincare or whatever. Like, it's a cute idea because it's interactive, it's exciting, it feels special.

[Jen]

To the consumerism point. I have to point out from this article, we learned in one case, this was 12 year olds. I believe the parent gave each of the. I believe they were all girls. Each of the girls got a $20 gift card to Sephora at the beginning of the party to then go shop. So I don't know that I love the consumerism of that at all. And I know from my friends with kids that there's always, like, this, like, reciprocation thing with kids birthday parties. Like, with both gifts and how much they spent on the parties. So that's a little odd. But another woman wanted to have, by the way, Sephora's. Like, this is not like a nationwide, like come to. It's not like McDonald's where it's like a set deal that you get a package deal.

[Garrett]

Totally.

[Jen]

I'm sure it depends on the location because this one woman was saying she had a nine year old and she went to Sephora and was like, would you ever do anything? And they were like, sure, why not? They put together to give you these questions. Why can't I think of the word scavenger hunt? Thank you. So the people put together a scavenger hunt. Like, go around the Sephora and find. I have two of the scavenger hunt questions for you, by the way. Let's see if you know the answer.

[Garrett]

What are they?

[Jen]

I love quizzing. I love quizzing, Garrett. Okay, so one of the questions was, how many different Sol de Janeiro scents are there?

[Garrett]

Oh, my God. 12.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Garrett]

Really?

[Jen]

Yep. Nailed it. Okay, next question. Just one more. What color is the cap? This was the actual question that the kids got. What color is the cap of Drunk Elephant's Lippy Balm?

[Garrett]

Pink.

[Jen]

Close. Orange.

[Garrett]

Oh.

[Jen]

So they made it like. Yeah. A fun moment. I think that I've said this. In fact, I actually had some jobs this week where I was speaking to executives about beauty trends. And I said, a lot of people are very worried about kids getting into anti aging and skincare. The consumerism will set aside for a moment. And what I said is that worries me less because I don't think they're doing it to be like, I need to look pretty. It's their crafting. It's like I did puffy paints with my friends. They're doing like, let's do this six layer mask and wipe it off. Do they care that it's making sure their skin looks nice after? It's like fine. But it's not the same as they think they look ugly and they're trying to look prettier. It's more a fun hobby crafting moment where they can like all talk about it together and like use their hands and do stuff.

[Garrett]

Well, I think it's like, it's. Yeah. The impression that I got from the story was not that it's like a makeover situation. Like, I thought. What was interesting about that was one of the parents acknowledged that there is this issue with kids using stuff that is not good for them. And so there was a service element too where like they were learning from the people at Sephora, like, what is good, how to use it, what they could be using. Like, I think that was kind of cute. It was like a learning experience.

[Jen]

Oh, my God. Do you think Boy Scouts? Now I know you were not only a Boy Scout, an Eagle Scout.

[Garrett]

I was.

[Jen]

What if, like, the new badge to get at Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts is the skincare badge?

[Garrett]

Can you imagine if I could see.

[Jen]

This happening in the next year? This is. This is. I think that because you're right. Like, these products are out there and nobody knows what glycolic acid is. And you're nine. You don't need a glycolic acid peel, which I'm sure these kids were accidentally using, thinking like, oh, serum.

[Garrett]

Well, they're seeing it on TikTok, too. And they're for. You know, they're like, I want to use that. And it's like they have no idea what it is or what it does.

[Jen]

And it's like, yeah, the mom said they left with a dewy how to get dewy skin. And they had, like, a lip balm moment. So it wasn't even. If you're worried that, like, oh, they're too young to try makeup. It wasn't even that. It was skincare. It's still, though, the consumerism of it all.

[Garrett]

Yeah. I mean, I can. I see that point. Like, especially, like, for so many people. Sephoras are in a mall, so it's.

[Jen]

Like, basically, like, it's a prestige store.

[Garrett]

Yeah. It's not cheap. And I do, you know, for my friends that have kids, too, I've heard that there is. There can be, like, a competitive thing amongst parents, too, in terms of, like, what you're doing for your kid's birthday.

[Jen]

Now we have a parenting podcast, and neither of us know anything about that either. Keep going. Say more.

[Garrett]

But so I can also see there being a little bit of a competitive thing. Like, oh, this girl had her party at Sephora. So I want to have my party at Sephora and whatever. But.

[Jen]

Yeah. Or not even competitive, but kids like to do all the same thing. The cool kids are having their parties this year at X Place. I was remembering Dylan's Candy Bar here in New York City. And I know it was a franchise nationally. It was so hot in the teens. And the odds to have your birthday party there and make a little. And that cost money. I guess all birthday parties cost money. What am I saying? You go to the ropes course place and buy pizza for everyone, but you also have to spend, like, A ticket to get an hour at the ropes course place for everyone. Still different, though. It's not a retail exchange.

[Garrett]

I mean, but isn't it though, like, no matter where you go, there's a. You're buying something in, like, exchange for a good service.

[Jen]

Yeah, maybe kids aren't even looking at it that way, and I'm just being an adult about it, but, like, the kid doesn't know. The ropes course, for example, was like, my nephew had a party there. Like, they don't know that each kid for the package, it was like 15 bucks for each kid that the parents had to pay. You're right. They have no idea of that.

[Garrett]

But I also don't think that they realize that about a Sephora party either.

[Jen]

If the mom, first of all, whoever this lady is, she wins in that high school, in that middle school, gave $20 gift cards to every kid. If you got to a party, wait, you get a treat bag? You're right. You do get treats at parties too. What am I saying?

[Garrett]

I'm being like, coming out of both sides, you know?

[Jen]

All right. It's just giving me discomfort.

[Garrett]

I just. I am obsessed with. I've always wanted to have a scavenger hunt birthday party. And so when I read that, I was like, genius. I'm into it.

[Jen]

So my 15th birthday, I think it was, or my 14th. My mom. My mom's epic. She's like one of those moms that puts other moms to shame. She's like a first grade teacher. So she's so good with kids and like everything, like all the activities. She put together a neighborhood wide scavenger hunt that me and my friends had to go out, like through the entire neighborhood, like on a long, like, long walk all around. And there were clues that were, like, hard. It was probably one of my favorite birthday parties I've ever had. And so then we were in Germany last summer for. This was Atlas's ninth birthday, maybe, or his eighth birthday. She and I did it together for him and his friends. Like, not as epic. It was just in the playground and it was so much fun.

[Garrett]

Oh, my God.

[Jen]

Wait, can I do this for you? On what birthday's coming up? 41's next. By the way, don't cry for Garrett. Cause now we can do talk about it. He had a surprise 40th birthday at Dave and Buster's that his husband put together. Meanwhile, he was on the mic with me. I almost said to him, this was like last month or two months ago. And I was like, okay, see you tomorrow. Because I was that girl. Cause the surprise party was tomorrow. And then I like swallowed my words and I was like. Cause you didn't know I was going. You didn't even know you were having a party.

[Garrett]

I have never been. So I started to like cry.

[Jen]

Oh, you were crying.

[Garrett]

You saw me.

[Jen]

I was like fully crying.

[Garrett]

I was fully bawling. I was so surprised. But also because I love, loved anything, like a Dave and Buster's thing. But it's like the last place I would have ever thought I would have a party. The Times Square Dave and Busters.

[Jen]

It was so much fun.

[Garrett]

It was the best. It was so fun. And seeing all of you guys there was like, just hilarious to me. And like the best.

[Jen]

Hanging out with Dr. Dendi. Like Chic, glamorous Dendi Engelman. You guys know her name? She's the dermatologist to the stars here in New York City. She like arrived. She had like a full on fur coat, like stiletto heel and she's drink. Yeah. And I have like popped my beer and Jess and I were going to play Hungry Hungry Hippos, which was like this like life size hungry hippos. And then Dendi walks in. It was just like, it was such a culture clash in the best way possible.

[Garrett]

Oh my God, it was so fun. But yeah, I mean, that's the thing is like again, activities, party. Yeah, activity parties is like, especially when you're like a kid. Like no one's having like a party where you like sit around and have a drink when you're like 15.

[Jen]

Right. And back to the point is, what are kids hobbies right now? Whether we like it or not? Skincare and beauty products. They are. But also the beauty culture that we talk about here on the podcast is a hobby, so.

[Garrett]

Totally.

[Jen]

Yeah. It was a good article.

[Garrett]

I think it was cool because it wasn't just about buying stuff there. It was about learning and having fun in the space.

[Jen]

I like your positive take. Thank you. I think we should end with that. Yeah. And let's just travel out of Sephora for a moment and go to the science corner.

[Greenlight Representative]

Okay.

[Jen]

So here we are in science corner. I wanted to share. I got the chance to learn more about a new cosmetic treatment that is injectable, but it is not a filler. It is not a neuromodulator, it is not a bio stimulatory filler. It is not ha. Hyaluronic acid filler. It's called Renuva. You've heard about it, I'm sure, or you've gotten Whispers of it.

[Garrett]

I googled it after you told me about it.

[Jen]

Oh, I thought you knew about it because I feel like you're usually schooling me on the latest and greatest in this kind of thing because it actually first was used by plastic surgeons more than dermatologists. So what it is is that was a good way to explain this. Okay. It's extracellular matrix from adipose tissue. Adipose tissue is fat. This is donated human fat that has been treated and has no cells left. Nothing alive in it. All that is taken from the fat is this extracellular matrix. So what happens in your own body is wherever there's fat, there's this extracellular matrix and then fat cells, they all live in it. Picture a honeycomb. So the honeycomb outside is the extracellular matrix. The honey is the fat. So there's no fat cells in this, but they inject the matri is your body's own fat cells see a matrix and they start moving in and like the honey fills up the combs and then the extracellular matrix, you metabolize it, that goes away and what's left is your very own fat, which builds its own matrix. And all of a sudden you have what is basically looking like a fat transfer, but without ever having to have liposuction to get your own fat to transfer. So for people who don't know, a fat transfer started out with like burns and reconstructive surgery, but basically you would get liposuction, they would take your fat, spin it and inject it into other areas of your body. And the joke was always like, oh yeah, take it from like my thighs and let's put it in my. Exactly. And that can happen. But it's a very intensive cosmetic procedure because you're getting full on surgery for the liposuction. The other thing, I actually learned about this when I was doing my labia puffing, storing not to make it about genitals again with fat transplant because they have tried it for the vulva as well. It doesn't always take. Sometimes it's 2/3 of it'll take and you can't really say which of the fat cells will take. So the look might not be as uniform. It's not that it would move around, but it could be like not lumpy, but like just you're not sure what it's going to look like months down the line. So now with this, you don't have to get surgery. It is your own fat and it's a very uniform look. So the thing about Renuva Is it's not cheap because it's more expensive than you would for like a hyaluronic acid filler. And they're very selective about the injectors that can use it. So it's only elite injectors. So I'll put a link to the website so you can see. But you know what I learned? So the doctor that was there with us, Dr. Haida Herman. Do you know her? Dr. Haida Hemand. She's a plastic and reconstructive surgeon, super smart. And she was telling us all the different ways that she's been using it. And one of them is in hands. She really likes that. And she brought in a patient. We got to watch it be injected. And the patient was saying, and this was what got me. She didn't want a non natural thing in her body. And I was like, wait, what are you talking about? She thought the idea of getting. She had gotten Morpheus because that was like nothing foreign, you know, you're just radio frequency. And she thinks she had some fat. Well, we should do this in another episode about Morpheus and what people have been saying about what happens to them. Have you been hearing that a little bit?

[Garrett]

Yeah.

[Jen]

That it like it also when the heats up and fires up the collagen to like tighten, it's somewhat destroying some people's fat cells so they feel like they look gaunt in certain places after they get it.

[Garrett]

Yeah, I'm like very skeptical of that.

[Jen]

I think we have to dig into that some more. But. So for whatever reason, she had never wanted to get ha filler or botox. She had had no cause. She didn't like the idea of like a foreign substance in her body. This is a natural. It comes from human fat. It's like a. It's. It's human substance really. She thought this felt more natural to her because her own fat was gonna be in there and she thought the look would be more natural.

[Garrett]

I have a couple questions.

[Jen]

I knew you would. That's why I wanted to talk about it with you.

[Garrett]

One is, where is the fat? Is it like a magnet that draws fat from other areas of your body? Because I've always heard the amount of fat cells we have is static. And when we gain or lose weight, it's just because the cells we have expand and contract. Right, but we don't. The only way to get rid of fat cells is like something like liposuction.

[Jen]

No, but they die too. So fat cells only in your body generally last five to seven years. As long as your body is Working. Right. And there's still stem cells in there. And you're still alive and human and making cells. You're making cells all the time so.

[Garrett]

You can create new fat cells.

[Jen]

Yeah, you're probably making fewer fat cells. But also think about, like, an area where you think you have no fat. Maybe your shins, I don't know. Or even your hands sometimes. There's still the makings of fat cells of your own in there. There's fat all over the body, even if you don't have, like, your thighs and the fat. The. What we think of as the fatty areas. Right. So even if you only have a couple little fat cells, because of course you do. Or the fat stem cells, they get f they see the matrix and they're like. Like, gotta fill the matrix. And then they, like, slide in bit by bit. So. Oh, I should point out, when you get the injections, it looks like it's gonna look right away, but then your body does some metabolizing. You have 90 days. It, like, goes down immediately, and you're like, oh, my God, what did I just do? It doesn't look like anything. But then as your new fat cells start growing, it plumps back up to what you want it to look like. So it takes, like, 90 days. So all these injectors have to, like, caution people. Like, you're gonna think it didn't work, but just wait. And your own fat cells will be filling in the matrix. And the before and afters were crazy.

[Garrett]

That's so interesting.

[Jen]

I mean, the future is here.

[Garrett]

I just think it's so funny because especially in the context of our ozempic culture now. Yeah, people are so into getting rid of fat, but then once they see the fat's gone, they want it back in certain places. And so now it's about injecting something to remove your fat, but then injecting something else to bring it back. I don't know how I feel about this, because I think it's a really cool idea that we're coming up with new technology from an injectable standpoint like this. That's not a filler. That's not a bio. You know, stimulatory, whatever. But I'm like, y'all, well, you just.

[Jen]

Made me think of eyebrows. Like, we're hilarious as humans. We pluck and shave them off and shape them, and then we fill them back in with pencil. Right. I remember trying to explain this. I think it was my dad even. He saw me using eyebrow pencil. He's like, after plucking and it made no logical sense. In wheat, you're going to remove the hair and then put back in fake hairs.

[Garrett]

Yeah.

[Jen]

I was like, but they're different now. It looks different. Which is the same thing you're talking about with the fat. Like, you're taking away the thing and you're putting it back in this way that feels more like where you want it to be and what you want it to look like. I feel like there's so many things in the beauty industry that that's exactly what happened.

[Garrett]

Oh, for sure, sure. Absolutely. And I also think it's like, oh, my God.

[Jen]

Dentures or not dentures. Veneers.

[Garrett]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Take your teeth off and then you put your teeth back on. But the better teeth.

[Garrett]

Yeah, no, I mean, you're right.

[Jen]

This is my new podcast. I don't know what I'm gonna call it, but it's literally just diving into.

[Garrett]

The irony of this and that.

[Jen]

Or like, not this that, not this that.

[Garrett]

But no, but it's interesting. Like, I also think in the context of the Ozempic movement, too, it's like there's so. It goes back to what we've said before. Like, there's gonna be so many more things coming out that are adjacent. Like Ozempic adjacent. Right.

[Jen]

Yeah. This has been in the works even before that became as popular as it did.

[Garrett]

Oh, I'm sure. Cause they have to create it and invent it. But, like, I just think the timing is really interesting that we're talking about fat transfer, fat growth, targeted fat growth, which is really, really difficult.

[Jen]

Well, Dr. Herman said that some of the patients were Ozempic patients that had diabetes, had gone on the drug, but when they lost the weight, their faces, like, you look. You can look really gaunt if you've lost a lot of weight, especially very quickly. Yeah. So it can be used for things like that. It's not for tear troughs and under eyes. It's not the same place. It's like these harder places that they didn't really have a good solution for, but also for these people. Like this patient that I met. She looks amazing. Before and after, frankly, she was like a lovely woman, but she was just like, I don't want like a gel, like an ha gel, like a non natural thing in my body. And I was like, okay, I understand that.

[Garrett]

I just think I'm having a hard time, like, conceptualizing the science of this. Like, theoretically, I get the scaffolding. Your honeycomb thing was a perfect analogy. But it's like, I'm also.

[Jen]

I borrowed that from the doctor, but thank you.

[Garrett]

I have to wrap my head around this a little bit.

[Jen]

It's fascinating because we picture it nice compartment. Like if you see what the human body looks like, we picture it all in the nice compartments like we do in the illustration. Like even as I'm thinking about, I'm picturing our epidermis illustration where fat lays within the dermis. But like the human body is not like that. It's all a big old jumble. And when we saw under the microscope camera, you know where they can stain. So just so you guys, this is getting really into the geekiness of it. But to show that what's happening at a cellular level, they'll put a staining agent so that they'll inject. They can see where the matrix they've injected is and then stain the fat like a different color so that you can see that it goes into where it was meant to be. And it looks like freaking chicken noodle soup. These pictures, if you're not a doctor, you'd have no idea what you were looking at. Like it's a big old mush mosh of cells. And I'm sure there's some fascia in there. Of course, definitely your matrix. I think the way that my rudimentary science education has taught me that the human body and science works, works only holds up so far. You know what I mean? Like at a certain point I'm not a doctor. Like we picture it the certain way and that's just not how the body works.

[Garrett]

Totally.

[Jen]

The fact that somebody thought that this might work is. It's fascinating to me. They're like carpenters, doctors. It's not rocket science like physicists. It's like, hey, stretch this thing and put like it's very physical and like it makes sense, but yet still blows your mind, doesn't it?

[Garrett]

Yeah. There's like a, there's an artistic quality to a lot of doctors, especially surgeons that I find to be fascinating. Like I've always heard from like surgeons, like whenever you cut into a body, you think it's gonna look like your textbook and it never does. Nothing is ever where they say it's gonna be.

[Jen]

Yeah. And that job is a hands on job. We consider it like a white collar job. But in a way it is one of the least white collar jobs if you're a surgeon.

[Garrett]

Totally.

[Jen]

And some of the people that work on this stuff, like you are using your hands and you're up in there.

[Garrett]

I'm very curious how popular this gets. Cause I do think your Point about hands. I can see it becoming very popular for that.

[Jen]

We have a friend in common that. I'll tell you off, Mike, who's getting it in her hands. So I'm gonna like. I wanna hear how it does there and how it goes.

[Garrett]

Totally.

[Jen]

I think it won't ever be as popular as some of the other injectables, both for price and because of the elite injectors that use it. But some of the doctors we were talking to said that. That people would drive like long distances. Cause they know this is a doctor that offers it. And you can go on the website and see. Because they just didn't want an ha or whatever. But they really had an issue with something gone or like a cellulite divot or if you've had a scar, you know how some depressed scars.

[Garrett]

Yeah. Like acne scars.

[Jen]

And in reconstruction. I mean, honestly, they first started using it in reconstructive surgery.

[Garrett]

Yeah.

[Jen]

And just before you're asking, reconstructive breast surgery, they cannot use it there. Cause the amount of product that would be needed to recreate a breast is just doesn't work. And. And the doctor herself was like, breasts are totally different. Like we treat them differently because of all the health concerns there. So you can't use it for that.

[Garrett]

So it's really just for like small areas right now.

[Jen]

It's for smaller areas and areas that. Yeah. Like, I don't want to say the weird areas, but like things you wouldn't think that. Oh yeah, some fat there would make sense. The woman I saw, she got it in her. It was like her cheeks sort of almost like where you would traditionally put an ha filler. But it looked really nice.

[Garrett]

Wow, this is really interesting.

[Jen]

She was like crying. She was so happy. Cause she just didn't feel like herself anymore. And that reminds you that like a lot of these things, they're not just vanity, they're really. They make people feel good.

[Garrett]

Totally. It's. There's. I've been working on a personal project lately and it's. I've been thinking a lot about like the mental health components of beauty. And it's huge. Absolutely. So this is really cool. I mean, anytime that there's new stuff to make people feel better and achieve what they want out of their bodies, I'm on board as long as it's safe and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But I think this sounds really promising. It sounds cool.

[Jen]

Yeah. So Renuva. I'll put links in case people want to learn about it. I think we should Go raise some wands. What do you think?

[Garrett]

I'm there. Let's do it.

[Jen]

Jess. I'm a person who wants to become their best. You know what's helping me right now? Masterclass. Love. So here's the thing. You know how when you work in teams, sometimes someone goes rogue. You're just like, okay, how do I deal with this person, you know, who can help you from Masterclass? She helped me at least. Amy Poehler. Amy. Amy Poehler. The number of instructors and more than 200 instructors on masterclass these days is amazing. But I really liked this class. It's building confidence and speaking skills, but it's also how to work in teams using skills from improv. Love. And it's also funny because it's like entertainment. But I'm learning. That's what I love about Masterclass. Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with more than 200 of the world's best for.

[Listener]

Just $10 a month build annually. A membership with Masterclass gets you unlimited access to every instructor, and you can access Masterclass on your phone. That's how I like to watch it. Computer, smart tv, or even an audio mode. Now, there are so many classes. I mean, I could be here all day telling you, but some of my favorites. But if we want to talk about beauty, Sir John does a class create makeup looks for any moment. Jen Atkin has a class. Style your own hair for any occasion. And of course, there are classes on lifestyle, food, your mind, your body, everything.

[Jen]

Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual [e-mail] FatMascara that's 15% [e-mail] Masterclass.com FatMascara.

[Flight Attendant]

Ladies and gentlemen, we are now boarding group A. Please have your boarding passes ready to scan. If your phone is cracked old or was chewed up by your Chihuahua travel companion, please refrain from holding up the line and instead simply go to Verizon and trade in any phone in any condition from one of their top brands. Brands for the new Samsung Galaxy S25 plus with Galaxy AI on Unlimited ultimate and a watch or tab also on them. Service plan required for watch or tap. Trade in and additional terms apply. See verizon.com for details.

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[Jen]

Okay, it's time to raise wand. Garrett, I love when you're on the show, like our conversations, by the way. You guys, it could be a seven hour podcast.

[Garrett]

The amount of editing that you're doing for these episodes is insane.

[Jen]

But it's time to raise a wand. I actually have two good ones that I want to play. So first up, we've been talking about fragrances with sparkle. Like, where, like everything's like so juicy and heavy and gourmand right now. Like, where's the sparkle? So lots of people have been calling in 646-48-18182 and texting and telling us about sparkle. So this is Katie from Chicago.

[Listener]

Hi, Justin. Hi, I'm Jen. This is Katie from Chicago. I just listened to the episode where Jess requested a sparkling fragrance and one that I recently discovered and love have not pulled the trigger on it yet though is called Liquid Love by Penhaligon. It's a London brand. I'm sure you guys are familiar, but some of the notes include rose, sandalwood, and then there's this really beautiful sparkling ginger note too. And I think it definitely sparkles. It's $275. You can't find it in the States USD for what size is that? I think like 100 milliliters. And I think it would definitely fit the bill. Love you guys. Thanks. Bye.

[Jen]

Love at Penhaligon's. You're right. We know about it. It's a good one. Thank you, Katie. I also got. This was a separate. This was just like a classic Raza wand from one of our listeners who had a product they wanted to talk about. I do not know their name because they did not leave their name. But as you'll hear, she's a nurse and I can tell you from her phone number, she's from upstate New York. Okay.

[Listener]

Hello, YouTube beauties. I've been listening to you since the inception of the podcast and am a big fan. I would like to raise a wand to a fragrance called Maya M A Y a. It was advertised as you will get stopped in the streets for people to ask if they love it. And let me tell you, every single time I wear it, whether I'm at the grocery store, at work, at a social function, Someone comes up to me and is like, what is that fragrance? Don't sleep on it, gals. Also, I love makeup. I love skincare. I'm a 60 year old nurse and people are always coming to me because they know I've done research. So thank you for all you do. And now I'm going to buy them the Clinique mascara that was chatted about on this episode.

[Jen]

All right, girls, be good.

[Listener]

And if you can't be good, be careful.

[Garrett]

That is the best advice I've ever heard in my life. If you can't be good, be careful.

[Jen]

I. The first time I heard I could. First of all, I could listen to her eight more times. I love her so much. But don't be good. If you can't be good, be careful.

[Garrett]

Yes.

[Jen]

What? I laughed out loud. I literally laughed out loud in my home office and said out loud to myself. I love our listeners. Yes, I know I'd be friends with this person.

[Garrett]

Oh, for sure.

[Jen]

There's no way. I wouldn't. First of all, all my best friends are nurses, as you know. So that's part of it. But I don't know what your name is, but I, like, wanna talk about you and talk to you some more.

[Garrett]

I wanna hear everything that she knows. I want her to just, like, send us like, a photo.

[Jen]

Chelsea was giving me, like, Joan Cusack kind of. I don't know what it was. There was something about her voice that felt very familiar.

[Garrett]

Totally. Yeah.

[Jen]

Like, oh. Or like a little Midwestern mom. Or like, oh, oh, PETA. Who?

[Garrett]

It's Peeta's wife, Lois Griffin.

[Jen]

A little Lois Griffin.

[Garrett]

There's a little Lois in there.

[Jen]

What a great voice and what a great recommendation. I looked up this Maya and that is how it's advertised. Like, people stop you. And it looks like one of those perfume oils that, like, I would love, like my invisible oil that, you know, like, I'm gonna get it right away. I'm on that.

[Garrett]

I want to try it. I've never heard of.

[Jen]

I want to change the sign off from like, get your beauty sleep for our podcast. Be good. And if you can't be good, be careful.

[Garrett]

I mean, I want a T shirt with that on it.

[Jen]

Watch it be like a really famous. I didn't look it up. Like, this could be like a thing people say all the time that I've just never heard before.

[Garrett]

I mean, it might be, but it's. It's new to us and that's all that matters.

[Jen]

I love it. What a good raison. It's A hard act to follow, Garrett.

[Garrett]

I know. I don't know if I, if I can follow that, but I also have a fragrance this. This week.

[Jen]

Okay, tell us.

[Garrett]

It is the new Eucalyptus 20 from Le Labo. It came out on February 1st.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Garrett]

So it's brand new. I don't know. Have. Have you smelled it?

[Jen]

I did. They sent me a sample. Cause I wanted. I thought I was going to love it. And clearly you do. You're about to raise a wand to it. Go.

[Garrett]

Well, we have talked about our mutual love for eucalyptus. Here's what I love about it. I'm going to paint you a picture. This is how it makes me feel. I feel like I'm walking into a very chic spa. The top note is very eucalyptus. Like it has that bite, that fresh bite to it and it makes me feel relaxed and clean and fresh and like I'm about to get this like incredible beauty treatment. Then the dry down. The dry down is leaving the spa, walking back to my hotel room through maybe like a jungle or like a rainforest. I meet a super hot shaman, we have mind blowing sex and then I can smell him on my skin for the rest of the day. I find it to be so sexy, this fragrance. Cause the dry down, I need to.

[Jen]

Go put it back on.

[Garrett]

The dry down is very. It's like I'm wearing it right now. It's very incensed. There's labdanum. There's incense in it. So it has this for me. I also got palo santo and kind of copal in it, which has why I get that kind of rainforest woo side liking it.

[Jen]

It's got a woo woo dry down.

[Garrett]

Woo woo. It is like, it's sexy. I will say it's not a super long wearing fragrance. Like it has. I sprayed it on this morning. It's been like maybe five hours. It's. It's fading a little bit, but I just love it. I like a fresh fragrance, but I don't like to smell that way all day. I like a deeper kind of more layered complex.

[Jen]

So this gives you the best of both world.

[Garrett]

Yeah. And there's something like super sexy to me about like frankincense and palo santo.

[Jen]

And that kind of the dry down's the sexy part. The first part is the like fresh part and the spa part. I thought that when I first sprayed it, it was too on the nose for me. It is like the purest eucalyptus. I don't actually know if it's botanically based or they use aroma molecules to create the accord of the Eucalyptus. Whatever it is, well done. Because it smells exactly like eucalyptus. And so that threw me off. Cause I'm used to Le Labo doing like a twist on whatever that signature ingredient is. Like, Santal doesn't smell like sandalwood. But anyway, I need to revisit it for the dry down. I just remember being like, oh, it's eucalyptus. And then it was gone. And I don't think I sniffed enough in the dry down phase. Or maybe.

[Garrett]

Did you put it on your skin or did it.

[Jen]

I did, but only one squirt and it was just like, okay, I need to revisit. I need to revisit because I want sex with the mind blowing shaman.

[Garrett]

This is like, what, like the hottest shaman you've ever seen. This is what he smells.

[Jen]

Okay. And Kapal, I love. And that spiritual smokiness of those woods.

[Garrett]

Yeah, there's just like something super sexy. I do wish it lasted longer, but I think it's like, from a vibe standpoint, it's really nice. And I also. I love eucalyptus. I don't always love it in wearable fragrance. Cause like you said, I feel like it can smell a little.

[Jen]

It's too on the nose sometimes. Yeah.

[Garrett]

But this is like, it's unmistakably eucalyptus, but I think it evolves very well. So I just. I love it.

[Jen]

I want to do like now a Google Doc of all your Raisa wands, because we have them on the blog, like for every episode. But I'm thinking now if we looked at just Garrett's. I want to say, like, 40% of your Raisawans are eucalyptus scented. If I'm thinking about it, I think.

[Garrett]

That you might be.

[Jen]

I'm going to look back at what you raised a wand to because I know in summer you get very into eucalyptus as well.

[Garrett]

I do.

[Jen]

Like a shower lotion. You had a lotion. That was good.

[Garrett]

I'm not. Oh, yeah. It was the Malin and Getz scrub.

[Jen]

Listen, the man likes what he likes, guys.

[Garrett]

Listen. I love a fresh, but I don't love, like a citrus fresh. And I feel like a lot of men's stuff is like citrus heavy or marine ozonic.

[Jen]

Cool water. David Dawson, aquatic.

[Garrett]

All that stuff. I love eucalyptus. Cause it has a freshness, but like an herbaceousness and a bite to it.

[Jen]

Herd. Yeah. You know, anyway, herd chef. Heard herd shaman. Why can't I get this shaman out of my head?

[Garrett]

I can't either.

[Jen]

Well, if this fragrance doesn't last, you could layer it over your dove Men plus Care Eucalyptus Scrubby. Scrub from earlier in the show.

[Garrett]

Anyway, last night, we had Ash K. Holmes come and do a live makeup tutorial for us with some hacks that she does with Vaseline, which I thought was really cool thing. I've never done one of these before. It was a blast. But one of the hacks she showed us was Vaseline. Does it in a stick. Like a big chapstick kind of thing. She said, put that on your pressure points, your pulse points, and then spray your fragrance on top of it.

[Jen]

Oh, yeah, that's big on. I've seen that on social media a lot. That's so funny. I was just talking about this yesterday with someone, and they were like, you know that hack? And I was like, I do, because I've seen it. It's like glue for the perfume.

[Garrett]

Totally. I've seen it before. But I had never thought to use the stick, which I thought was a really good hack.

[Jen]

Cause then it's not all slippery and whatever. Also, some of these perfume primers that they're selling now. House of Beau has one. Future Society has one. They're expensive for what is essentially not the fragrance. It's the thing that's meant to make the fragrance last. Lighter, get the Vaseline stick going.

[Garrett]

Totally.

[Jen]

Look at that. You did a raisin wand and a tip.

[Garrett]

We love a hack, love a hack over here at Fat Mascara.

[Jen]

Love a hack, love a beauty tip. That's a good one. I'm raising a wand. This is why I think you're gonna hate my raisin wand now that I've learned that men with body hair, people with body hair, I should say, don't always love a scrub. But I thought there was nothing to the soft services buffing bar at first. And I was like, I've seen a scrubby bar. Kiehl's had one I loved back in the day. It is so good and it lasts so long. And the shape of it. My thing with the Kiehl's one was it was, like, too big and you couldn't spin it around in your hand. You know, with, like, a soap bar, you want to be able to spin to get it going. You know what I'm saying? When it's wet.

[Garrett]

Oh, yeah.

[Jen]

And also, you want to be able to hold it easily to glide over your body. It's a slimmer bar. You get two in the pack for 20. So it's a decent value. Because that $10 one, $10 bar lasts forever. It's unfragranced again. What's with me with unfragranced? But they do have like a green banana scent of it. But I've been using the blue one, which is unfragranced. It feels so good. It's like scratchy in the best way. It's like a back scratch from a friend and. But without irritating because some of them can get too scratchy. Wait, does this happen to people with leg hair? When I get out of the shower, I could have done an everything shower. I could have exfoliated, whatever. When I get the towel and I rub it over my shins, a gommage comes off like rubber cement balls. Like the extra dead skin. Does that ever happen to you when you're like roughly drying with a towel? Am I the ashiest person alive?

[Garrett]

It doesn't happen to me.

[Jen]

He's giving me a face.

[Garrett]

I'm giving you the face. Cause I don't know if I should admit something on air when it comes to.

[Jen]

I can just take it out. But I kind of want to know now.

[Garrett]

I never wash below my knees.

[Jen]

But you dry below your knees?

[Garrett]

Yeah, I guess, kind of.

[Jen]

I don't dry. I guess not really. I don't think that's that weird. No, a lot of people don't because the soap just runs off you and you're like, sure.

[Garrett]

I'm like, it's like self cleaning, but.

[Jen]

And if you don't have stinky feet, why would you bend over and waste the time?

[Garrett]

Yeah. Although, do I dry? Do I? I don't think that I even dry my shins, so maybe not.

[Jen]

If you're anything like my husband. No, the towel is an idea to him. He like walks out, he like dabs maybe his like ear and then water every like I. And then he comes to the bedroom, he's getting dressed and I'm like the water streaming off your back, I can see it coming down and rivulet still. Did you like, did you use a towel? He was like, he'll put a shirt on and like you'll see that the shirt is now wet because that is the towel. Are a lot of guys like that?

[Garrett]

I think so.

[Jen]

I mean, I dry off. I like. Part of the reason I guess is cause this buffing action. I've noticed. Sometimes I think I'm so clean and exfoliated and then when I buff and dry off with a towel, these little pieces comes off my skin and I'm like, well, I guess I didn't exfoliate as good as I thought I had, you know?

[Garrett]

Yeah. I wonder if that's just like what you're Using to exfoliate. I mean, it's cool that you don't have that. With the soft services bar.

[Jen]

That's. Thank you for keeping me on track. Like, I gotta go on my hike. Can you wrap it up here to connect the dots for the listener, as Garrett just did? When I use the soft surfaces buffing bar, I don't have the little pieces coming off when I dry with a towel. Thank you. I'm done.

[Garrett]

I've also used that bar. I like it. I found it to be scratchy as well. In a good way. The first time I found it.

[Jen]

Did it mess with your hair?

[Garrett]

No. Cause it's a bar.

[Jen]

Okay. It's more the gummy of the gels.

[Garrett]

But also I feel like that one. The particles are so fine. It's like. It feels like a sandpaper.

[Jen]

It feels like when you go to the beach and you sit down and you like it with the wet sand. Do like a little. Sometimes I do that. It's like a little.

[Garrett]

It almost like it makes me feel like. Remember those, like, diamond scrubs that were, like, big at one point? Like, the really fine. It has that vibe.

[Jen]

But they went away for a while and then people were scrubbers, I think, because the whole St. Ives, like, don't put walnut shells in. But I love a scrubby bar, and I like a bar. Cause there's less packaging. And this one is so good.

[Garrett]

I don't usually love a scrub bar. I think that they're kind of gimmicky. But that's the only one that I've ever used that I liked.

[Jen]

Thank you. Okay. You understand my raisy one? Cause I don't think even that Kiehl's one, it was, like, fun, but it was like, I'm never gonna use this again. This one, I'm now on my second pack. Cause I've liked it that much.

[Garrett]

They did a collab, too. Speaking of their fragrances, with Dias and Durga, I think it was Debaser.

[Jen]

Oh, wait, maybe that's how I got introduced to it. Yeah. Because I don't know the PR or anything, but, you know, David said they always send me whatever is new from them. And it was like a purple one with the fragrance Debaser.

[Garrett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen]

Which is very. It was very fragranced. And I fell in love with the texture. And then I went to buy it, but it was limited edition. And that's when I got the original. And I was like, oh, it's unfranced. But I don't care because it's such a Good texture, a nice value. I think a $10 thing that's gonna last me a month of scrubbing. Done well.

[Garrett]

Cause you got two, which I think is great. That's very wrong.

[Jen]

It's 20. So yeah, each bar is 10. Technically. I did a little mental. I did a little girl math on that one, but yeah. Okay, guys, be careful. No, no. I fucked it up. Oh my God. Our Maya perfume loser's like, honey, you messed up. What? I meant to do that. Right, Sorry.

[Garrett]

Should we just call. We'll just call her Maya. Maya. Thank you for your tagline.

[Jen]

We're gonna call her Maya.

[Garrett]

Be good.

[Jen]

And if you can't be good, be good.

[Garrett]

Be careful.

[Listener]

We hope you enjoyed the show.

[Jen]

It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your.

[Listener]

Beauty questions and hear what products you love. To share a Razoon product review or to ask a beauty question. Email us at infoatmascara.

[Jen]

If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646-481-8182.

[Listener]

Thanks so much for listening.

[Flight Attendant]

Foreign Ladies and gentlemen, we are now boarding Group A. Please have your boarding passes ready to scan. If your phone is cracked, old or was chewed up by your Chihuahua travel companion, please refrain from holding up the line and instead simply go to Verizon and trade in any phone in any condition from one of their top brands for the new Samsung Galaxy S25 plus with Galaxy AI on unlimited, limited, ultimate and a watch or tab also on now. Service plan required for watch or tap. Trade in and additional terms apply. See verizon.com for details.

[Alo Moves Representative]

Renew your health and wellness purpose this new year with the Reset on Alo Moves, a curated weekly program of Pilates, strength and step goals to kickstart your fitness journey. It's a 30 day, week by week program. Three days of Pilates, two days of strength and 8,000 daily steps plus bonus nutrition tips from Sakara. Plus plus for only $99, you get a year's worth of access to Allomoves on demand. Full studio experience wherever you are.

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Get moving [e-mail] this message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save Spend wisely and invest with your guardrails in place. With Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk [e-mail] listen greenlight.com listen.