Ep. 580: Bye for Now

Summary

Fat Mascara Episode 580: Bye for Now – Detailed Summary

In the heartfelt final episode of Fat Mascara, hosts Jennifer Sullivan and Jessica Matlin reflect on nearly a decade of celebrating beauty culture, sharing personal anecdotes, memorable guest interactions, and expressing gratitude to their loyal listeners. This episode serves as both a nostalgic look back and a poignant farewell as Jennifer announces her departure to pursue a new career opportunity.

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1. Announcing the End of Fat Mascara

Jennifer Sullivan breaks the news to listeners with a mix of excitement and nostalgia:

"[...] the reason Fat Mascara is ending as you know it is I took a full-time job. I am going to be leading beauty and personal care coverage at Wirecutter. [...] I'm excited to be starting something new." ([05:02])

Jessica Matlin responds with support and pride:

"We are saying a big thank you and a big warm congratulations and not bye bye. [...] I'm really proud of you and I'm really happy for you." ([06:15])

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2. Reflections on Memorable Episodes and Guests

The duo delves into their most cherished moments from the podcast's extensive archive, highlighting standout episodes and unique guest experiences.

• Orlando PETA on Technology in Beauty:

  "He was like, it's like ignoring the steam engine. [...] You have to either get on or risk being basically outdated." ([25:10])

• Poppy King on Industry Pace and Attention Economy:

  "Scrolling is the new smoking, that attention economy." ([25:17])

• Humorous Take on Product Attachment with Dick Page:

  "People get so attached to these colors, [...] good luck to you, Mrs. Frodo, on your quest for that lipstick." ([26:29])

• Philosophical Insights with Heather Widdows:

  "You don't have to acknowledge that people have lost weight. [...] Looksism is as prevalent, more prevalent than other forms of discrimination." ([29:10])

• Celebrity Interactions:

  • Linda Evangelista: Recalling intimate and down-to-earth conversations.
  • Jennifer Aniston: Navigating tech mishaps with grace during interviews.
  • Julia Roberts: Sharing a magical moment at a movie premiere, culminating in a funny reimbursement story for popcorn and soda ([30:02]).

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3. Personal Stories and the Podcast’s Impact

Jennifer Sullivan shares deeply personal reflections on how Fat Mascara served as a constant source of strength through various life challenges:

"The consistency of this podcast has been like through the ups and downs of my personal life in the last 10 years. [...] This podcast got me through it." ([49:20])

She recounts navigating significant life events, including the dissolution of a long-term relationship, the loss of her grandmother, the pandemic's impact, and personal health struggles. Despite not delving into these details on-air, the podcast remained a steadfast companion for both hosts.

Jessica Matlin echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the community and connections fostered over the years:

"You know, we all wanted to be here and to connect together, like audioly. [...] It's just about our own humanity and wanting to connect with one another and people." ([52:31])

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4. Acknowledgments and Gratitude

The hosts extend heartfelt thanks to the myriad individuals who contributed to the podcast’s success, including team members, producers, interns, and loyal listeners. Jennifer lists numerous names, highlighting the collective effort behind the scenes:

"If we don't say your name, we're sorry. But I wanna thank Brittan, Shea, Bell Roman and Charlotte Council. [...] All of you. [...] Andy Cohen for discovering us. Julia Roberts for the 15 bucks." ([52:31])

Jessica adds personal anecdotes about producer Red Rock Studio and their journey together, underscoring the collaborative spirit that defined Fat Mascara.

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5. Fond Farewells and Final Messages

As the episode draws to a close, Jennifer shares her "shmoopy moment," a touching acknowledgment of the deep connection between the hosts and their audience:

"The consistency of this podcast has helped me through the death of my grandmother... It just has helped me get through." ([49:20]).

Jessica emphasizes the enduring nature of their community:

"I love the people and connections and obviously you. [...] It's a testament to how much we all wanted to be here and to connect together." ([51:12])

Both hosts encourage listeners to continue engaging with them through reviews, feedback, and beauty questions, ensuring that the legacy of Fat Mascara will live on through their collective memories and shared experiences.

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Conclusion

Episode 580: Bye for Now serves as a heartfelt culmination of Fat Mascara’s journey, celebrating the vibrant community built over 700 episodes. Jennifer and Jessica's candid reflections not only honor the podcast’s legacy but also highlight the profound personal and professional bonds formed along the way. As they bid farewell, listeners are left with a sense of gratitude, fond memories, and the enduring impact of a podcast that truly championed beauty culture.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Scrolling is the new smoking, that attention economy." – Poppy King ([25:17])
• "Mrs. Frodo on her quest for that lipstick." – Dick Page ([26:29])
• "Shedding light on looksism being more prevalent than other forms of discrimination." – Heather Widdows ([29:10])
• "The consistency of this podcast has been like through the ups and downs of my personal life in the last 10 years." – Jennifer Sullivan ([49:20])

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Timestamps:

• 05:02 – Announcement of ending the podcast
• 25:10 – Discussion with Orlando PETA
• 25:17 – Insights from Poppy King
• 26:29 – Reflection on Dick Page interview
• 29:10 – Heather Widdows’ philosophical insights
• 30:02 – Julia Roberts movie premiere story
• 49:20 – Jennifer’s personal reflections
• 51:12 – Jessica on community connections
• 52:31 – Jennifer’s acknowledgments

Transcript

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

What if I told you that right now millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood, many of them don't even know that they have it. That condition is obsessive compulsive disorder, or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the chief clinical officer of NOCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who are suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity, beliefs and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated. But help is available. That's where NOCD comes in. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive Compulsive disorder. Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure and response prevention therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call with our team. That's nocd.com now.

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[Hannah Berner]

Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad. With summer around the corner, I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college. And and I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in aligned pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get non stop flexibility in every direction. So you can stretch the summer limits. Align. Even Wicks sweat and as a sweaty girl. I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the Align Colle collection [e-mail] or your nearest Lululemon store.

[Jessica Matlin]

Holy smokes.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Here we are. We are here. It's Fat Mascara, a podcast about beauty culture. A tagline we did not come up with till six years in.

[Jessica Matlin]

More. Listen, if you made it this far and you don't know what you're listening to or what it's about.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

CC episodes 1 through 7 and 119. We didn't even start numbering the episodes till like 10.

[Jessica Matlin]

Listen, if you told me when we were first starting. So yeah, like, flash forward. So you guys are gonna put out about 700 something of these. I would be like, I can't do it. Like, it's too much for my mind to wrap around. Like, I don't have enough time. I'm gonna die before then. You know what? It doesn't make sense. I wouldn't even think that many could wrap around the earth. It's too. It's too many for my.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

This is your first episode. You're joining us in weird time. She's Jessica Matlin. I'm Jennifer Sullivan. They know.

[Jessica Matlin]

They know. They know.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Can I say when I was looking through. This episode's gonna be a fun look back, I found the original agreement we did with Embassy Row when we started this, and it says that they were signing us on for 12 episodes.

[Jessica Matlin]

Are you serious?

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I am serious. 12 episodes and then we'll see how it goes.

[Jessica Matlin]

We'll see how it goes.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

They said 720 episodes later.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah. So we went. Yeah. So we started with Embassy Row. Thank you, Brit, for taking a chance on an unknown kid. And, you know, we've had so many different team members, producers, interns.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, I have a big list to read at the end. Don't you worry. NPR style. I'm gonna roll credits and just start listing names. So stay tuned till the end for that. Oh, she cracked a fresh Diet Coke. It's all coming out now.

[Jessica Matlin]

It's all coming out. It's been such an amazing wild ride. And it's been almost 10 years. The world has changed. I mean, Obama was president when we started.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

We. Yeah, before we get into that, the bulk of this episode, just so we are laying this out for you, is we're gonna do nostalgia hardcore. We're gonna look back at the top, the bottom, the ins, the outs, the great who was President, how old we were, everything we went through. But I do feel like I have to share my news since it just came out.

[Jessica Matlin]

Let's do it. Let's roll it out. Let's get that out of the way.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

If you are.

[Jessica Matlin]

We're waiting for the reveal.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

The big reveal. So the reason fat mascara is ending as you know it is I took a full time job. I am going to. I will be leading beauty and personal care coverage at Wirecutter. They're doing a big expansion. I did not know this job did not exist a year ago, six months ago, when I saw that. Then they came to me and we started talking. I was just like, wait, this makes sense. I can't tell you how excited I am. It's all about getting to the truth. It's all about trying to make something that is objective, subjective, and find out what people want and talk about beauty and personal care in this personal way, yet also in this scientificy and objective way. Cause we test there.

[Jessica Matlin]

You're gonna be testing and evaluating and getting into the gut.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Everybody I've interviewed with at this point when this airs, it'll be my first day at work, I think is so smart. I'm so excited. So it was a tough decision because obviously they value independent journalism, which means you can't also have your own media company on the side when you work for the New York Times. So Jess and I have been through it the last two months talking about this back and forth, but I'm excited to be starting something new.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yes. So we are saying a big thank you and a big warm congratulations and not bye bye. I mean, bye for you and talk to you. Yeah. But I'm really proud of you and I'm really happy for you and I think this is the. I think it's the right move for you.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, thanks. Well, before we get into the bulk of our episode, we do like to read comments at the top, so I figured I'd just read one from last week's episode. This is from Lara in the French Alps, a longtime listener. I am crying fat mascara tears, but my makeup's not budging because I've been trained by you, Jess and Jen. I can't believe how I have taken you for granted to guide us through life and beauty with a strong moral compass and all the belly laughs along the way. I assumed you'd always be there. Thank you for helping me build the confidence to become a makeup artist. Praying that one day you will bring FM back and raising Awan to you. Love from Laura in the French Alps. I'm not crying. You're crying.

[Jessica Matlin]

Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, I feel like there's been so many folks who have really shared their, like, their journeys into not just like their own beauty journeys, but beauty professions along the way. And I don't know, that's always been like a cool slant, I think, with fat mascara people. Because we really have. I think we speak to the enthusiasts, but we also have been speaking to the insiders, not in a snooty way, but like people who are in the wheel of the industry.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

So I also wanted to shout out. Cause Lara's been with us for a while. She comments often. A couple of our other superfans, Suzanne, Kelly, Carl, Jenna, Courtney, whoever started our private Facebook page, I can't remember. But to you, Raspberry Blase. I see you. Holly Laubon perfumes. They always talk to Anna. He's in green. Hello, Sean, Jody, Anya.

[Jessica Matlin]

She's got great animal content. Anna.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yes. And if I didn't mention your name, but you contact us a lot, you know, I know who you are. That's just a couple of our big FM fans, members of the fam.

[Jessica Matlin]

So we'll miss you, but we'll always be connected. And you have the archives and we're not going anywhere. I always feel like it sounds like, oh, my God, can you imagine if you just stumbled upon fat mascara and you're like, oh, how many episodes do they have? 700.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I mean, when the AI overlords take over, they will be able to definitely replicate us with an Android, considering they have hours and hours of our personality and voices.

[Jessica Matlin]

So I'd like to think there's a little special something that they won't be able to replicate. A little.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

A little. The chemistry.

[Jessica Matlin]

The chemistry. But also that little, you know.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, my God.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

So this is a fun exercise.

[Jessica Matlin]

That's a topic to unpack. AI. Oh, my God.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

It sure is. This is sort of like one of our Naughty and Nice episodes is how I'm approaching this whole thing.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, my God. Naughty and nice.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Which we do every year at the end of the year, but this is the end of the podcast, so we're gonna just.

[Jessica Matlin]

Christmas won't be the same. Christmas.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

What are you gonna do this Christmas? I don't know. Maybe we'll come back the mic. Holiday.

[Jessica Matlin]

Holiday. I was the one who said Christmas. But anyway. Yes, but what are we going to do? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe we'll have to do a virtual pink bar reunion.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

All Right. You want to. You want to like get into it.

[Jessica Matlin]

And I. I think I should actually start, cuz I. Yeah, well, let me.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Let me play some music one last time, some transition music and then we'll get into.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

What if I told you that right now millions of people are living with a debilitating condition that's so misunderstood, many of them don't even know that they have it. That condition is obsessive compulsive disorder, or OCD. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the chief clinical officer of NOCD. And in the 25 years I've been treating OCD, I've met so many people who are suffering from the condition in silence, unaware of just what it was. OCD can create overwhelming anxiety and fear around what you value most, make you question your identity, beliefs and morals, and drive you to perform mentally and physically draining compulsions or rituals. Over my career, I've seen just how devastating OCD can be when it's left untreated. But help is available. That's where NOCD comes in. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for obsessive compulsive disorder. Our licensed therapists are trained in exposure and response prevention therapy, a specialized treatment proven to be incredibly effective for OCD. So visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call with our team. That's nocd.com.

[Hannah Berner]

Hi guys, it's Hannah from Giggly Squad with some around the corner. I wanted to tell you guys how I'm staying comfy and stylish. Lululemon is my secret weapon. There are plenty of copycats out there, but nothing compares to the Lululemon fabrics and fit. I've literally had my pair of Lululemon leggings since college. And I'm out of college. I know I don't look it, but I am. The quality is next level. I especially love the Lululemon Align collection. It's made with this weightless, buttery, soft nulu fabric that feels like next to nothing. It's so soft. Whether you're in aligned pants, shorts, a bra, tank, skirt, a dress, you get non stop flexibility in every direction so you can stretch the summer limits align even wick sweat. And as a sweaty girl, I love this. You know it's going to be my best friend when I play tennis this summer. Shop the Align Colle collection [e-mail] or your nearest Lululemon store.

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[Jessica Matlin]

Okay, so here's how I approach this exercise. First of all, I had such a blast doing this. Okay. I did it, like, over the week. It just came to me like a vision. I was like, this is. If I'm thinking, like, okay, what was the last? Like, 10 years or nine years, whatever, if I'm scared. Like, I got this song in my head and it was like. It was. It was a song. It was a vision. It was like, you know when, like, 80s sitcoms, you know, like, I love an 80s sitcom. Basically sat in front of the TV every day for, like, six hours. When I was younger, it was like this song, like, show me that smile. Ooh, show me that smile. Okay, I'm tone deaf, but, like, do.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

You mean Growing Pains? Show me that smile again.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Okay.

[Jessica Matlin]

And then I had the Family Ties like, what would we do Baby Without Love? Where they show all the picture frames. Okay, well, that was the second version of the opening credits. That was, like, another season, but where they show, like, people having fun from throughout the season. You're like, oh, I love that episode. Oh, I know that when they all, like, had on the water fight in the front lawn, it was like, what would our fat mascara montage opening montage be?

[Jennifer Sullivan]

What would it be?

[Jessica Matlin]

I just. I didn't have to look. These things, like, came to me.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I'm ready.

[Jessica Matlin]

Okay. I hope you guys are all laughing about how tone deaf I am. Okay. The first one, and I tried to put them in some sort of logical order, was us showing our guests how to download the podcast, just like in the Embassy Row studios.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I can picture it.

[Jessica Matlin]

I'm picturing. I don't want to call her out because a very famous person in Beauty who is a mogul showing them how to do it was like, where is it? And then sometimes the people would have the young 20 something assistant with even, like, them. They're like, where is it? Taking out their phones. And I'd be like, the purple thing. Oh, you don't even have it set up on your main screen. And then we'd have to download the app. And the whole thing was so, like, embarrassing. We even thought about getting cards that had our fat mascara. And on the back, how to download.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

What is a podcast? How to download a podcast.

[Jessica Matlin]

It's the radio, but, like, whenever you want.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

How many times do we have people come in who thought they were good going to be on a TV show?

[Jessica Matlin]

And then they came makeup ready.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah. Which is great. We love when you're hair and makeup ready. But. Wow.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, yeah. So like that kind of like befuddlement. Okay, so that's like. That's one of mine.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah. It was 2015 when we started working on this, so. Yes, that was.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Pre podcast era. Okay. Oh, is it my turn?

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, yeah, you can. Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, we're going back and forth. That's funny because this actually goes to. One of the things I want to remember is the entourages, so.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, my God.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I was. We've been in multiple physical studios over the years and then became virtual during the pandemic and have stayed virtual. But I pulled out four people that I remember having.

[Jessica Matlin]

I know exactly who you're gonna say.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Do you really? All right, well, here's the four that I remember.

[Jessica Matlin]

Liko says over talk. She goes, don't over talk me. I don't wanna over talk you. But I'm so excited.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Okay, well, the first one was Kat Von D. Yes.

[Jessica Matlin]

Okay, that's it.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

When Kat Von D came to the studio, it was like, she didn't walk in first, actually. There were like two people. Then a third person, she walks in. She's like 8ft tall with big shoes. And then like, I'm ready to close the door. And it was like a clown car. Like, four more people came in, like, all set. I think it was like nine people.

[Jessica Matlin]

There were at least nine people.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Okay. She had a huge entourage. Kathleen Lights. Remember the influencer? Kathleen Lights. Kathleen Fuentes.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Huge entourage.

[Jessica Matlin]

Don't know why I kind of remember that. Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Paula Bagoon had quite an entourage.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, she had a lot of people.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

P.S. as I was looking back up, there's a whole thread about our episode with her on Reddit, which I didn't even know. That was a classic.

[Jessica Matlin]

Classic mad mascara. And that's a high point.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

That episode is seared in my memory. It was great. It was what podcasting is when you just have real conversations and people can hear what's really going on in them, you know? Okay, last one that I was thinking about was Suzanne Somers. Rest in peace, Suzanne Somers.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, God, that was great.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

First of all, she was a delight.

[Jessica Matlin]

Her husband's so awesome.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Beautiful, beautiful, kind, weirdo. In a good way. Like my kind of weirdo person. And her husband was with her and a publicist. And it was like old New York walked into the room, like from the 1980s, like the way they ran stuff. She was great.

[Jessica Matlin]

She was so kind and her husband was kind. I was pregnant at the time, and they wanted to talk about. They were just like. They were asking us a lot of personal questions. I remember. I just feel like they cared about. It wasn't one way, it was two way. And it was like. A lot of people don't have. I don't wanna say, like, social skills, but there's not genuine interest in the other person in, like, business situations. And they genuinely had interest in where they were and who they were talking to. And I thought they were really warm, a real curiosity. Yeah, they were very curious people, very nice people, kind people.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And then. Do you remember any other entourages I might have forgotten about?

[Jessica Matlin]

No, but I remember people who did not have an entourage. Emily Weiss. I remember not even realizing it was her down to like. I think it was Embassy Row. Yeah, it was. And she was just wearing like a puffer and jeans. And she was like on her phone and I was like, oh, Emily. Like, I didn't realize it was her downstairs. That was before Glossier was huge. Obviously it was like 2017 or 18. But it wasn't like she came with the publicist, which now I'm sure she would have many people around her. And Linda Evangelista, which. This was before she had the whole coolsculpting crisis. She. Or at least before she was public about it, she came by herself. She lives in the city and chill.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah, she just rolled in.

[Jessica Matlin]

She rolled in, no makeup. And she let us take a photo of her.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

This is another one of my moments, cuddling on the couch with Linda.

[Jessica Matlin]

Okay, well, I guess a good segue then. I mean, imagine her today rocking up with no makeup, no entourage to a podcast to talk about stuff. Now, she was on the Harper's Bazaar Goodbye podcast recently. Yes, it's a different kind of show, but, like, that was super hyper produced.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah, there was an intimacy to a lot of the interactions we had, I think, because people. It wasn't video, which, by the way, everybody loves A video podcast Now, I still think people open up so much more when you're just audio 10,000%.

[Jessica Matlin]

All right, give me another one. Then we'll pop another.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Not Entourage. Another model.

[Jessica Matlin]

Anything you can talk about. Well, this is.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

This is perfect. Models. The models. Oh, yeah, we all. Some of our best interviews were with models cuddling on the sofa with Linda Evangelista. I remember she ran so hot. I run cold. And I. We sat together. First of all, you tried taking a freaking photo with Linda Evangelista. Are you kidding me? Every photo, Jess. And I was like, let's see it. Because our producer took them. And we were like, nope, nope. No, thank you. The profile on her. Beautiful. Anyway, Veronica Webb teaching me to walk and find my light.

[Jessica Matlin]

I don't know what she meant. She kept on saying, find your light. And it was like. It clicked for me at the very end. I was like, what are you talking about? The light's stationary. It's not moving. She was like, find your life. You didn't.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

You know, your good angle in your side. Keep that towards the light. She just knew how to do it.

[Jessica Matlin]

The way she was explaining, I didn't get it until like, so long. And then I was like, ah, find the light. Yeah, but she. Yeah, she was.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Do you know who we didn't. Who we didn't find the light with? Miranda Kerr.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, she's so stunning.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Her face. We tried to take like a close up of the three of us that. That whole interview is interesting to me. Cause she and I probably are the. I can't think of a more opposite guest I've had. She's very crystals and woo, woo. But she's warm and lovely. We had a. But then she, like, brought us in for like. I think we might have done a boomerang with her. Was this a boomerang when boomerangs were a thing? I don't remember doing a boomerang. I have Karen Elson, Ashley Graham. Cindy Crawford.

[Jessica Matlin]

Cindy Crawford. I was like, when are you gonna drop Cindy?

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Cindy? Well, I was gonna end on Cindy because one of my favorite moments on the podcast, when you just pretty much narrated her entire infomercial back to her. She loved it, though. You're like. And remember when you ran through the fields with Dr. Sebag? And she's like, yes, thank you.

[Jessica Matlin]

She was great. She was a great interview. And you can see. I don't know, you can just see why she's so successful. She was awesome. That was when. I wish it was in person.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica Matlin]

Okay. All right. So if we were Doing in the montage, in my mind, the do well, like the breadth of our guests, right. So a lot of podcasts have. It's a theme. They cover this, they cover that, and they cover. You kind of get who the guests are. I would love to do like a quick cut of the different guests we've had. We had suits. Like one of our first big suits, our first big exec was John Dempsey, when he was exec executive VP or president, I'm getting his title wrong at the time, but basically the big honcho, the big mucky muck at Estee Lauder Companies. So we had him. And then we also had Theo Kogan, who was the lead singer of the punk band the Lunatics, where, you know, when I used to see her growing up, she was like spinning blood and wearing like a nurse's outfit. So I'd love to see a cut to of John, then Theo, then Gary Archer the dentist.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh my God, Gary Archer, who makes.

[Jessica Matlin]

Fake teeth for every cool movie you've ever seen in your life. Like Oscar winning movies in the indies. And then you have somebody like Sir John who's like known for basically working with every major pop star. And Beyonce, of course. The breadth of our guests, I would just want to see like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. All over the map. All over the map. So that's it's, it's not a memory, it's more of like a what the hell just happened? And then thinking about the things they're saying. So in the montage of our mind, there's usually music overlay. I'm being really literal here. We'd have to pause. There's two things. These are not beauty things, but they're kind of like cultural technology things that have stuck out to me that our guests have said that. I always think about Orlando PETA. This is way back. He was like the first year that we did the show. Hairstylist Orlando PETA. Love him. I think he's the most beautiful, voluminous, elegant, sculptural hairstyles. Also did Madonna's hair during the bedtime story era. He said that if you ignore what's happening with the social, at the time it was really just Instagram. This is like before TikTok and everything. He's like, it's like the steam engine. And he wasn't someone who was like wildly embracing Instagram. You know, he's not like a social media cutie, but he's like, if you ignore it, it's like ignoring the steam engine. It's like ignoring the Printing press. He's like, it's ignoring. This is just technology. And you have to either get on or like risk being basically outdated. And it was interesting to hear someone who was such an icon and not part of that generation just be so factual and unemotional about it. And then the other person who really stuck in my mind was Poppy King. And her interview was like, very personal. Two things she said, actually. One, she bemoaned the pace in which the beauty industry was going with the pace of launches, the pace of, you know, we came from the era of the hero product. We still set it kind of law the indie designer or like the brilliant artist. But then we destroy them with like, okay, what are your next 10 SKUs next month? Because we wanna pump out that volume and that cadence. And that's something that I still see. And it's kind of like crushing brands and it's like the nose eating the tail kind of thing. I don't know what the expression is, but you guys get what I'm saying. And then the other thing is, she said scrolling is the new smoking, that attention economy. And I see that everywhere I go, scrolling is the new smoking. And she's so anti that. And she's not trying to be an influencer. She's not trying to stay with the crowd in that way.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Episode 45, January 2017, that was her episode. Just so everybody gets a reference.

[Jessica Matlin]

And I always think about that when I'm like, oh my God. Like I've just been. I feel like kind of gross after I've been like scrolling for a while.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, and she pops in your head scrolling as the new scene.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah. So, yeah, it's like, this is not a healthy behavior. And we, we all know it. We all know it. And I don't know if it'll ever come out in like 50 years that like, this is really bad or if it's like, oh, no, this is just the way it is now. Move on, lady. But it's a cute phrase, but I.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Think those two things are tied together for me, it's interesting. Those are the two that stick with you. Cause they both speak to the passage of time, I think.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah. And we've seen the industry, like all industries, whether you're in sports, finance, whatever, food, it doesn't matter.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Innovation. Yeah. They speak to like, here's how things.

[Jessica Matlin]

Innovated and here's how things are innovating.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

They're negative though, a little bit on the end. No, no, no.

[Jessica Matlin]

Orlando is saying like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Orlando is saying Embrace. You have to evolve. Embrace. Evolve or die. But there is. There's, like, you have to be eyes wide open about it, too.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah. I think those were two really poignant moments on the show that always stick with me.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I did something similar. I was like, oh, Just thinking back, like, which interviews stuck out to me. I don't know for what reason. We've had so many good ones, but these things are stuck in my head. One, though, is just for you was you and Dick Page. I loved that interview so much. And I always think about at the end, like, people who love a discontinued lipstick, because how many times have we gotten calls about, oh, my God, discontinued product?

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And Zick was kind of a dick. He was just like. He's like, yeah, that color exists. I guarantee you go out into the stores, the color you bemoan exists. And he called it Mrs. Frodo on her quest for a lipstick that doesn't exist. He's like, people get so attached to these colors, and we know it because we hear it from you. And you guys were talking about poking fun at the fact that, like, it's not just the color. It's the moment in time when you wore that favorite lipstick. It's the name of it. It's the way it smelled. It's the touch of it. And just him being, well, good luck to you, Mrs. Frodo, on your quest for that lipstick. And I always think about him saying that when people get super attached to a beauty product. I loved that episode. I also. I loved my interview with Dr. Alex Box. I think about that a lot has to do with technology. Also, she was like, one of the reasons I let my hair. My white streak of my hair grow in. So it was so cool to, like, meet her. And for some reason, Kristen Bell's interview stays with me. I think it was deep pandemic. Like, we were in a weird, goofy.

[Jessica Matlin]

Time that was so deep pandemic. And I wish that I didn't read her after I had a kid, because I've seen frozen 80,000 times. I didn't even know that she was the voice of Ana. I had no idea.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

She was just funny and real. And I remember she popped open her laptop and she was, like, laying on her stomach on the floor. Didn't. No.

[Jessica Matlin]

Entourage was actually, like, in the attic. She was like.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

She couldn't find WI Fi, and she's, like, walking around. It was, like, the least celebrity celebrity.

[Jessica Matlin]

She had an assistant that was, like, yelling. Not yelling, like, badly, but she was like. I felt like she was Like a friend in. We were just talking to this friend.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

In the house, and I pictured. She talks about being in the bathtub sometimes and locking the door, and she'd see her kids little fingers under the doorknob, trying to get into mommy and saying, mommy. And just like, I picture it like a horror movie of just, like, little zombies trying to get in there. And the way she's just a really good storyteller and the way she told the story, I just, like, that vision is stuck with me. But ultimately, the episode and you know what I'm gonna say my favorite favorite of all time. Listen, if you haven't. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Jessica Matlin]

I don't.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

You don't.

[Jessica Matlin]

I have zero clue what you're gonna say.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

It's Heather Widdows.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, that makes total sense.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

The philosopher. She blew Jessami minds.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

She reoriented the way I think about others and my interactions with them 100%. I had a conversation with my parents afterwards. I was like, you don't have to acknowledge that people have lost weight. You don't have to talk about their looks. You don't have to ask them about their haircut. You don't have to invite conversation about someone's looks unless they want you to. And that looksism is as prevalent, more prevalent than other forms of discrimination. And it was just like, oh, my God, we have a podcast about beauty culture. How have we not talked about this before? She just blew my mind, the whole thing.

[Jessica Matlin]

That was a paradigm shifter.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Loved her accent. Where was she from? Leeds, maybe somewhere in the north. I don't know. I don't know. England? You lived in England? I just loved that episode. So, yeah, those were some of my favorites.

[Jessica Matlin]

Well, can I. That was, like, very academic and very deep. Can I add a Hollywood corner, please?

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Do your Hollywood corner.

[Jessica Matlin]

Okay, we'll take a little break after that.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Go ahead. What do we got? What do we got?

[Jessica Matlin]

I'm sorry, but, like, in the montage of my mind, there we are in a movie theater, trying to find our seats, and Julia. Robert. We're at the premiere for Julia Roberts movie. Ben is back on the Upper west side. We scored an invite because a little birdie told us that Julia Roberts was a listener. And we were invited, and we went to the starry, starry premiere. We were carrying our popcorn and sodas. More on that later. Carrying, like, you know, full in our arms, spilling over, trying to find our seats. And we see Julia, and she waves. Jen, Jess. And we wave. We have a very brief Interaction. Before we sit down, she called us over.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

She waved like she knew us.

[Jessica Matlin]

It was like, yeah. It was like, oh, my God. Hi. Hey, what's up? You made it. Cut to. Okay. We see the movie. Very sad, very good. Ben is back, and we go to the after party where we see her. It's fabulous. And we take a picture with her. It was like we had at least a minute. At least a minute or so of, like, real conversation. I go home. I feel like Cinderella, like, you know, turned back into a pumpkin. About a week or so later, we record the podcast. We make these jokes about how we spent, like, 20, $40 or something on popcorn. Popcorn. And then we, like, felt like, you know, well, we went to a movie.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Premiere and we were like, we can't not have popcorn. So we had to buy the popcorn.

[Jessica Matlin]

We bought it. And then we exactly, like, we like jujubes from home. And then we into the theater, and we didn't realize that right outside the door, there were all of these free extra large popcorn.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

We don't get to go to Hollywood premieres all the time.

[Jessica Matlin]

This was new to us. We had no idea. I'm at my desk and I get a letter. This is like, oh, my God, I do miss the Hearst tower so much. Sometimes I get a real live letter at my desk, stamped and everything. It says, Jess. I open it. It's a card. See, I listen. Was written in pen, xo Julia with cash, baby. Cold hard cash reimbursement for. For Jen and my popcorn and soda.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I think you had set a very specific number. Like, 15. We spent $15 on popcorn, and she put, like, a $10 bill and a $5 bill.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, it was, like, very specific. It was the funniest thing. It was. I mean, I'm going to be telling that story in, like, the nursing home when I don't remember anything else.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

She sent you cash. Cool.

[Jessica Matlin]

So funny. I mean, then I have a few celebrity stories I just had. Like, I don't think this is braggadocious. I'm not like, oh, my God. This is like, I'm still in stun, in awe. And these are my, like, these are my nursing home stories. When we interviewed Jennifer Aniston like, five minutes ago, and you were walking her through the tech, and she was cool and chill as a cucumber.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I was having, like, if you had an EKG hooked up to me, like, it would bells and alarms would have been ringing. I'm very good. Like a duck. Like, I know I project calm. You're wearing a diaper Walking Jennifer Aniston through a tech mishap. Jess was like, texting me on the side, like, oh, is it okay? I'm like, uh huh. It's all fine. Everything's fine. I kept it chill though, didn't I? I was freaking out. You were certain she was just gonna close the computer and be like, never mind. This is too much work.

[Jessica Matlin]

I definitely thought she was gonna close the computer soon because she was so. There was so much to do and I felt so good.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Like, guys, picture your zoom meetings that you have at work where, like, so and so doesn't have the camera on. Can you hear me? I'm here. Your audio's off. Are you talking? Blah, blah, blah. Picture that with, like, freaking huge celebrities.

[Jessica Matlin]

The most daily.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

That's what I do as producer.

[Jessica Matlin]

I was gone. I was dying. Oh, my God, it was so great. But I was also, like, peeping. Like, I was like, oh, that's a nice couch. That's a nice vase. I'm like, I can well.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Cause you didn't have to be the one, like, slowly being. You see the drop down menu? How many times have you heard me say that? You see the thing that looks like a gear go down there. You see the little microphone icon? How many times come back that you.

[Jessica Matlin]

Said, do you see the thing that looks like a gear to Jennifer Aniston? And she was like, aha. Was probably one of the funniest moments of my life. I was trying to keep it together because it was very serious.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

You also never know how tech savvy someone's gonna be. So I, like, had my pattern that I do with everybody, and I was like, well, she may not be, you know, a makeup artist. She might be Jennifer Aniston, but she's gonna get the same shtick.

[Jessica Matlin]

Last one, when this is early days. This is early early days. When I was like an active Twitter user for like five minutes. I got a Twitter mention and it was like, listening to fat mascara is like being at a slumber party with your best friends or something. And it was Molly Ringwald. And then we had her on the show and I was like, are you kidding me? Molly Ringwald? And we had her on the show. And like, honestly, like, Molly is just the best. She is the best.

[Howie Mandel]

I can't tell you how often I hear, oh, I'm a little ocd. I like things neat. That's not ocd. I'm Howie Mandel and I know this because I have ocd. Actual OCD causes relentless unwanted thoughts. What if I did something terrible and Forgot what If I'm a bad person, why am I thinking this terrible thing? It makes you question absolutely everything and you'll do anything to feel better. OCD is debilitating, but it's also highly treatable with the right kind of therapy. Regular talk therapy doesn't cut it. OCD needs specialized therapy. That's why I want to tell you about NO cd. NOCD is the world's largest virtual therapy provider for ocd. Their licensed therapists provide specialized therapy virtually and it's covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, visit nocd.com to schedule a free 15 minute call and learn more. That's n o c d.com hi guys.

[Hannah Berner]

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[Paige DeSorbo]

Hi, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Let's be real. Cat dads are in their golden era. Temptations, America's number one cat treat brand, is celebrating how seriously irresistible these guys are. They've got sensitivity, snack, timing, precision, and their cats adore them. Add in a handful of Temptations treats and boom. You've got a certified cat dad Show. More love to the cat dad in your life with Temptations Cat Treats. And tag your fave moments with catdadsighting. You know we're dying to see them.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Okay, we're back. I have something to play for you. But first, since we were talking about celebrities, I also have to just remember a couple moments. Remember when Kimora Lee Simmons wouldn't turn her camera on?

[Jessica Matlin]

Do you know that I I repressed some of these things.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I know. Or we had a rule over when we went in March 2020, when we went remote and we started recording virtually, we made it a rule that you had to have your camera on because, like, how do you have a conversation with somebody without their camera?

[Jessica Matlin]

It's weird.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And I really wanted Kimora Lee Simmons. I used to be, like a baby fat fan back in the day. And so she comes on but refuses to turn on her camera. It's the only time we've let that go. And if you listen to the episode, it's like, no, you can't have a conversation with someone when you can't see them.

[Jessica Matlin]

I totally forgot that. Oh, my God. The pandemic episodes are so strange. Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Opposite of that equally virtual Kim Kardashian. What happens? Get to the studio. Guess who's already there. Guess who's already sitting in the studio completely plugged in, waiting. Kim Kardashian probably got straight A's in school. She was just like the most professional person ever. Had her stuff together, beat us to the studio. I think at that time, we still had, like, a remote producer helping us out. So she was the opposite. But those are two celebrities that stand out for me. Okay, moving on. I have something to play for you.

[Jessica Matlin]

I'm scared.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

If you recognize this moment, let me just find it, because it also stays with me. Does your hair feel moisturized?

[Jessica Matlin]

I love all the pulpy bits.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Do they feel like they're really just chunks of moisture?

[Jessica Matlin]

I feel like they're really like. They're like little action packed, like the mitochondria of moisture, the powerhouses of moisture. Oh, my God, this is so Amazon Fresh. I love how it just like this one slipped through my knuckles right there.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

That didn't gross me out at all.

[Jessica Matlin]

It's the Amazon Fresh ad.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

So that was our first experiment with branded content, and it was Amazon Fresh. And what I say. I've never laughed so hard in my life. Jess is a consummate professional. When she needs to be on camera and or selling something or doing her job, she will keep a veneer of professionalism. But I know her so well. Like there, I think you were trying to be funny. But like, that entire video, I have like 72 takes of it.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, my God, Jess.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

So we had to use Amazon Fresh ingredients to make our own beauty treatment. If you listen to the podcast, you now know we don't do a lot of DIY beauty treatments. There's some fabulous products out there. You don't need to. I do, like Cooking and mixing around, whatever. So I came up with some. I think I came up with the recipes because you were like, you came.

[Jessica Matlin]

Up with the recipes.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

So we did a banana hair mask. I could see in the background too, our Amazon Fresh ingredients. There was some organic green tea, coconut oil and bananas that we ordered from Amazon Fresh. And so we're gonna make these hair masks together. It would look like baby food chunks. Beige. Gross. And she's pretending to so sweetly, like, stroke it through her hair like she is actually enjoying it. And everything on her face is telling me, what the fuck have you gotten us into, Jen? Like, what are we doing? And this isn't pleasant at all. The pulpy bits. We got some close ups of, like, banana squishing through your fingers.

[Jessica Matlin]

I can feel the little chunks going through, like the mitochondria moisture.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Also. When have you ever said mitochondria in your life?

[Jessica Matlin]

Except for that moment when I had to build a cell with food in elementary school.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Like, everyone were the squiggly Gemelli noodles, the mitochondria, like a pasta cell. Yeah, I remember that moment. But. But this is to say, like, over the years, now that we don't have to do them anymore. We didn't have ads at first, but if I played for you some of the outtakes of us trying to record.

[Jessica Matlin]

These ads, oh, my God.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

This is just purely for me and you, Red, who became our producer in 2020, late 2020, and now owns a pod huge podcasting company. And Enrique works with us every day.

[Jessica Matlin]

But Red Rock, Red Rock Studio. Red Rock Studio, Red Rock.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Red would sometimes just slack me. Like, cuts he did of our ads of like, just me saying, I'm sorry, this is gonna get explicit. But I often say fuck my life. So it would just be like me talking about, like, oh, aloe yoga, fucking fuck. Remembering the names of these products and making it sound professional. Some of the. We've had Sephora, Ulta, Beauty, Daily Harvest. I got my mattress from our sponsors.

[Jessica Matlin]

Me too.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

We had Brooklyn in Love. Brooklyn. It's the house that podcasting built. I got a sofa one time. Remember that? Like, build your own sofa. That was our sponsor. I can't remember the name. Use Code Fat mascara. Listen, when in doubt, guys, if you're ever on a website, especially Honeylove, you know where you sent that. That's probably my favorite sponsor of all time. But just use code Fat mascara. You never know what's gonna happen. Or mascara. Just try it. You might get a discount. How many ads over the years?

[Jessica Matlin]

A lot. I remember Getting. The first time we had an ad, I remember getting the fit of giggles, like collapsing, collapsing. Because I was just like, this is so funny. It's so funny. Like. And now it's like, auto.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Wait, what are you at masterclass? Okay, got it. Go.

[Jessica Matlin]

Okay. I've got a couple of minis. Just kind of. This is like a hot list. Ready? It's like a hot list of minis. When we recorded with Two Faced, found the Two Faced founders, Jaron.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jessica Matlin]

Was in the studio and he had Glandino. This was a real.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Set a scene. Set a scene.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, we recorded. This was our, like, second studio. This was at Will Studios and they had like a little hut that we would record in. It was like a little. It looked picture like a little tree house that was in the studio. So it's really dark. It was like a padded tree house.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Gray felt, soundproof, grey felt.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

But sure, picture it as a treehouse.

[Jessica Matlin]

I pictured it like a tree. Okay. Like a gray felt studio. And he was in there and like something was shining in this darkness. And I look down and I have never seen a ring that size in my life. And I've seen a lot of really big rings. Like diamonds. Yeah. I don't mean like, oh, I've seen a lot of big rings.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I just feel like you worked at Harper's Bazaar. We get it.

[Jessica Matlin]

I worked at Harper's Bazaar. Yeah. I've seen a big ring. This ring was an ice cube teetering on a band. And I. I mean an inch.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I want to say an inch.

[Jessica Matlin]

It was an inch, maybe three quarters. And it was so clear. And I couldn't focus on the interview. I was just thinking, we need a guard here.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I think I. I'm so tacky. I stick my foot in my mouth all the time. I think I asked him if it was real.

[Jessica Matlin]

It was. We don't need to go see the Hope Diamond. We don't need to go see the crown jewels.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And he was like, honey, honey. Like, of course.

[Jessica Matlin]

I don't remember what he said, but.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

It was just like the ring that Two Faced bought him or something like. Cause when he.

[Jessica Matlin]

It was.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jessica Matlin]

Just like. I feel like I've seen the eighth one of the eighth Wonders of the World. It was unbelievable.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Dino's finger.

[Jessica Matlin]

No, it was again, a tale. A tale. But I was like, we gotta get you in a car. We gotta get you back. I don't know. You can't be walking around like that. But it was something. Okay. With Linda Evangelista again. This was one of my faves. I tried to create, like, a cute game for us called Evangelism. This is when I was trying to do, like, Andy Cohen style. Watch what Happens Live game. Cut to. In a second, we'll segue. And it was like, evangelism, exclamation point. And I was like. It was like, things she's excited about.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I think you even presented it with that same inflection. Evangelism.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah. Yeah. And she wasn't getting it. And. Oh, that was a. That was a flopperino.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And you're like, my game. My game.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, I know. That was. So I stopped doing little games like that. It was too embarrassing. Okay. I said, yeah. I was inspired by Watch what Happens Live. We recorded in the studio. We watched what Happens Live not the same room, but the same building where Watch what Happens Live is recorded.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Our first production company was also the production company for that TV show.

[Jessica Matlin]

Exactly. So thank you. Thank you for the content. Thank you for bridging those two things together. Well, we had an amazing opportunity to be on Watch what Happens Live as the bartenders within, like, the first year of fat mascara. That was a surreal and amazing experience.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

That was July 17, 2016, for those who want to try and find it, because, girl, you know, I spent 45 minutes on the Lord's Internet trying to find the episode so I could play it the audio. It's season 13, episode 119. The guests are Billy Eichner.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yup.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And Jacqueline Laurita.

[Jessica Matlin]

Am I saying that right?

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yes.

[Jessica Matlin]

Female Housewives of New Jersey.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And Andy talks to us. I think he called you a girl from New Jersey. And we had to do shots on the shots, and then we mixed drinks. But he wasn't happy with our mixing skills at all.

[Jessica Matlin]

I was just frozen, and I was just smiling the whole time.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

You looked so pretty, but you. I don't think you said a word. I think you were just smiling.

[Jessica Matlin]

I was so. I had a frozen smile. I was so, like, I can't get.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

To your episode, though, because it's so long ago. It was 2016. I went on Peacock, and then they were like. They only had a couple highlights, of course. And let me just tell you right now, the highlight of that episode was not Jess and I. It was Billy Eichner. And then it was like, something else. But. But yeah, we were on Watch what Happens Live.

[Jessica Matlin]

It's definitely, like, if I have to share a fun fact one day, like, at a new job, that's a good, fun bartender.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And Watch what Happens Live.

[Jessica Matlin]

Yeah, that's definitely a blow away.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah. That was a good one.

[Jessica Matlin]

All right. Anything else? I mean, I know there are other things, but, like. Well, I mean, our fat mascara events, our listener events were amazing.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, we had Nexus. We did one where everybody could come and get to a salon. We made your own scrubs with St. Ives. Remember how fun that was?

[Jessica Matlin]

That was incredible.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, everybody came and picked a scent, and we made scrubs at Davines. You got to Davines. We did planting. Everybody planted a little basil plant, and we learned about Davines hair care.

[Jessica Matlin]

A Neutele. We had, like, a sniffing event.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yes. We also did one at. I want to say. Wait, was it Diptyque? Francis Kirk Dujon. Which perfumes it?

[Jessica Matlin]

It was Diptyque. We had a conversation with Chandler Burr.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yes. In the Diptyque store. That was super fun. We did with Givaudan.

[Jessica Matlin]

We've done a lot of great events.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah. Irl. Those were good ones. The little moments, too, that I wanted to bring up. I don't know why this stays with me. When I found out Jawara, the hairstylist, when I found out his aunt was Lady Saw.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, I remember that.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And I lost my shit.

[Jessica Matlin]

Wasn't he wearing. Because he was wearing a shirt.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I don't remember what it. Did he have a shirt on?

[Jessica Matlin]

He had a shirt on or he.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Just mentioned that, like, something about Jamaica and, like, dancehall. And I was like, oh, do you know? Of course he doesn't know. And he was like, that's my aunt. I worked in her hair salon. Like, we worked. And I lost my. That was just, like, a amazing moment for me. I don't know why. That just made me really happy. And I'm just trying to think. I have other ones, too. Oh, now I have my shmoopy moment. But I'll save that towards the end. Is there anything else fun?

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, God, you're gonna get schmoopy.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I have a little bit of a schmoopy moment.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, God. Anything else? I can take it this morning. I mean, there's so much. But I feel like otherwise we're putting this on Spotify.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

And I know we can't play any more listener voicemails, but please go on Spotify and comment on this episode what your favorite moment of fat mascara was.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh, my God. I'd love to know.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

I would love, love, love to know. It means so much to us.

[Jessica Matlin]

Favorite guest. Yeah. Favorite episode.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Tell us. It's just. It'll be a fun, like, little Internet archive that'll just live for as long as Spotify is Around, who knows, some conglomerate will buy it in like two years. You know, Orlando PETA said the steam, the steam engine keeps steaming.

[Jessica Matlin]

It's like the steam engine. He's like the railroad. Yeah, he's like the railroad, the steam engine. I forget exactly what he. The metaphor he used, but it was like that. And I think about that all the time.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah. So the shmoop moment for me is the consistency of this podcast and of spending time with you each week, but also our listeners. Because if I go back, it's August 2015, we're starting to work on this project. I was 36, you know that was 11, almost 10 years ago. Right, 11 years ago. The consistency of this podcast has been like through the ups and downs of my personal life in the last 10 years, which I don't talk about on the air. You don't really as much either, but it just has helped me get through. I had a 13 year relationship. I like was practically married to a man. That whole thing dissolved while I was still coming in every week. I lost my apartment. That never talked about on the air. Then I had to like, then I had to go through all this legal crap. I got my parents apartment. I got married at 40, like a crazy person. This got me through the death of my grandmother, Ruby. She's like a fairy godmother of this show. She is my beauty, like inspiration her. Shalimar, how many times have we talked about it? This podcast got me through it. The COVID the pandemic, which was horrible. My father in law dying during the pandemic and like I don't even know if we mentioned that on the era. He got Covid. That was a mess. I had all these medical issues in 21 and 21. I'm not talking about that now. Let's not get too personal. But like multiple surgeries, broken foot and like every week, this was the thing that I could come back to and be happy and find connection and like this way. I know this isn't that kind of podcast where we share all that personal stuff, but just so you know, throughout the last nine years like so much has changed in Jess and my life. But you guys have always been there and always consistent and so have you, just so. Thank you.

[Jessica Matlin]

I know this has been a really amazing community to come back to and you know, I always thought that I'm not here because I'm obsessed with finding the right retexturizing serum. Like I think you probably know me well enough to know that I love beauty products, but I love the people and connections and obviously you. We've been together for almost a decade now to have this moment every week with you and with our listeners and hearing from you guys and everyone who comes into this virtual. Like you can clearly tell in the beginning it was in person. Sometimes with wine. Do you remember we used to get wine?

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Oh, yeah. Cause there'd be after work, we always would come like on a Wednesday. It was once a week. We'd roll down to the studio.

[Jessica Matlin]

I know, but the fact that we were able to transition this. This also feels like it's from like Mars. Like to transition this to like a virtual thing with a virtual community is incredible and a testament to how much we all wanted to be here and to connect together, like audioly. Okay. Now a little bit kind of, you know, visually. But that says so much that like goes beyond technology. It's just about like our own, like humanity and wanting to connect with one another and people. Yeah.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

On that note, I'm going to list off some names. If I. If you think I missed any, shout em out. Jess. But I'm gonna just say the people that have helped us over the years, there's so many of them. If we don't say your name, we're sorry. But I wanna thank Brittan, Shea, Bell Roman and Charlotte Council. Illmedia Will Malinati, Jackie Danziger, Michelle Mason, Elliot Davis, Rachel Leitner, Molly Soca. Our interns. I hope I'm getting you all. Yaz Vs. Chloe Anello, Luca. Can't remember Luca's last name. Olivia Quinton, Tiffany Suknandan, intern Tim, Emma Hall, Valerie Light, Georgina Kim, ellie Dixon, Lexi McCallion. Then of course, red rock music. Red Yoakum. Enrique Hinojosa, Crystal Miranda, who's been helping us for the last year and a half with our social and of course, all of the guest co hosts we have over the years when I had to take time off or Jess had to take time off, two of the most important, our own Julie Wilson and our Garrett Muntz, who've been part of us for a year now. All of you. Ugh. Andy Cohen for discovering us. Julia Roberts for the 15 bucks.

[Jessica Matlin]

Oh my God.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Yeah. Thank you all.

[Jessica Matlin]

Thank you guys so much.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

Get your beauty sleep.

[Jessica Matlin]

We love you. Get that beauty sleep. We hope you enjoyed the show.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your.

[Jessica Matlin]

Beauty questions and hear what products you love to share a Raza one product review or to ask a beauty question, email us at infoatmascara.

[Jennifer Sullivan]

If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646481.

[Jessica Matlin]

Thanks so much for listening.

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