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- [00:00]
A
The scouting reports end Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile get Unlimited Wireless for $25 a month forever and keep your phone. It's a veteran move. Unlock the savings@boostmobile.com Unlock $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited Wireless plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com With Cricket Wireless, you can count on reliable nationwide 5G because Cricket Wireless is on the AT&T network, which means you can start listening to that new album that just dropped at home while running errands and at the gym without any hiccups. Find plans with unlimited data for every lifestyle and price point. Switch to Cricket today. That's the sound of Lego Pikachu training for battle. That's the sound of Lego Pikachu enjoying a post training snack. And that's a reminder to not let Lego Pokemon in the recording studio. Lego Smart Brick brings Lego Pokemon Play to life. Lego Pokemon with Smart Play. You're the trainer now.
- [01:15]
B
Hello everyone. Hi. Happy Friday. It's Jen Sullivan here. Welcome to Fat Mascara. So today's guest is here to talk about an important topic, how we can mitigate the beauty industry's impact on the environment. But I promise this is not going to be a lecture. We all already know that packaged goods and the packages that beauty products come in are a big part of the pollution problem and huge contributors to climate change. But there are things we can do to make a change. And wow, I just said that sentence. And yes, I hear how cliche it sounds, but it is true. There are people in the beauty industry who are working to make improvements. One of them is Carly Snyder. So that's our guest today. She's the Executive director of Pact Collective and she'll explain what that is. So her background is she has an undergraduate degree in environmental studies and geography and she has a Master's of the Environment Policy, Policy and Management. Before joining pac, she worked for the B Lab. That's the nonprofit that certifies companies as B cores. And after that, she was a consultant in the beauty industry, helping companies to balance profit with purpose and potentially become B cores themselves. So we are going to focus our chat on how we as consumers can be more critical shoppers in the beauty industry, but also what the companies can do, how they can improve their packaging. I know some of you who are listening work in the beauty industry and Carly has some tips for you, not just for us as shoppers. I am personally so interested in this topic, but I have to admit, it's a big one. There's a lot to learn so you're going to have to excuse some of my ignorance in this area as I talk to Carly. But I figured if I wanted to learn, you might want to learn too. So we can do it all together. With that, let's welcome Carly to the virtual studio. Okay. Carly Snyder, welcome to Fat Mascara. Hi.
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A
Thank you. Such a pleasure to be here.
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B
I'm so excited to have you on. I know we realized after we talked that it also is Earth Month, but the conversation we're having is important year round. I just want that noted.
- [03:08]
A
Yes. You know, I think everyone talks about Earth Day or Earth Month and they're like, every day should be Earth Month and Earth Day. And I'm just like, let's give it some attention. I mean, I'm all for Earth Month and Earth Day. I love it. So I think it's good. I think it's good for it to be top of mind for people at a specific time of the year.
- [03:27]
B
Okay, guys, we totally planned this. We planned this conversation to happen in April, case you didn't know. So I want to talk to you about all the things, but first what you do at PACT Collective. What is PACT Collective?
- [03:41]
A
Yes. So we are a collective working to do nothing short of end packaging waste within the beauty industry, which saying that it is so massive and I think that there's so many things and directions we can go, but that is truly the vision that we see is how we can bring the industry together, unite us to think about our packaging and think about the material that we're putting out there and think about how we can work together to create better, more sustainable circular packaging solutions. So that's at the core of who we are and what we're trying to do. We were founded by MA Beauty and Credo Beauty, who are trendsetters in the industry and really bringing a lot of clean beauty and sustainable packaging to the forefront. And they connected and they were like, hey, let's have a conversation, let's work together. And they took a pause and they were like, hey, actually let's do this with the entire industry. Let's not just keep solutions and our conversations siloed because that's what we're seeing a lot of. What about if we create a platform, create a community where all these different stakeholders within beauty can come together to have constructive conversations. So such an amazing and powerful statement because I think, and we'll talk about this a lot today, we're so siloed. And it's not just beauty, it's just across the whole all industries, you Know, we're siloed in our brand and we're working with our heads down, trying to move it forward. But there's so much we can learn from each other, and there's so many things we can do to kind of unify our solutions and our progress. So that's really the core of who we are right now. What we're doing to meet that massive vision for the future is we're diverting material that we know is ending up in the landfill through collection programs, which we'll speak a lot about today on why these exist. And then we're collecting data, findings, insights, you name it. When we actually work with this material and process this material to highlight hurdles and challenges so that the industry has a really clear understanding of what the problems are and how we can move forward.
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B
Did you work for the B Corp foundation at some point?
- [06:08]
A
I did. So I worked three years at B Lab helping create communities. So that's really where I got this excitement around coming together. And I saw it firsthand at B Lab of businesses coming together to share best practices, and then I kind of pivoted to helping businesses achieve that certification.
- [06:29]
B
Yeah. So when we talk about a beauty brand that's B Core certified, which I know people have heard me say on this podcast, you were the person working to help them get certified and then realized, I want more people to be be certified. I'm going to go to the sources and get them to start instituting these principles so they can get this certification.
- [06:45]
A
Exactly.
- [06:46]
B
And now here you are, packed collective.
- [06:48]
A
Now I'm here. Sorry to take us off track. Yes, I'm here now. And it really stemmed from this understanding of, like, I was hopping around and no one was talking to each other. And then I got invited to apply for pact. Really? It was before launch. I really wasn't aware of the potential that this could be. And so it's really this sweet spot that I find that I can create the most impact where it's in between business and nonprofits, and it's cultivating this community where businesses can come together or organizations or others can come together and share best practices and share failures so we don't repeat those and work together to create a more unified process to move the needle forward.
- [07:36]
B
And so when we talk about making the beauty industry more eco friendly, more sustainable, more environmentally correct, there are so many aspects to that, but you are focused on packaging. So talk to me first about the problem on packaging. Like, it feels very big, and we just say, oh, there's too much packaging. And that's the problem? How do you describe the problem?
- [07:56]
A
It's a very, very large problem. And I always like to see that's the instinct. I'm like, there's also where to start, where to start. I mean, we've all seen the pictures, we've all seen the, I don't know, maybe the documentaries, the plastic pieces in birds and the stat around fish being more plastic than fish in the ocean. Like, I think we're bombarded by a lot of these really big stats that seem like, wow, what am I supposed to do as an individual? And so when we talk specifically about beauty, I think it's really important to approach these problems from an industry perspective. Because brand by brand didn't work, or it's working, but so slow. Right. I think industry is the sweet spot where it's like, we have unique issues with packaging that we need to come together to address. But it does look different than food. It does look different than fashion. Right. And so I love PACT in this ability to bring the industry together and approach it because it's this big. But if we can narrow it down to an industry level and be like, let's get focused, then it becomes like a little bit more attainable. So that's a piece that I really enjoy. But when we talk about the beauty industry, truly the only stat that's out there that I would like to share is that we as an industry produce 120 billion units of different type of packaging within beauty. So that's each year. That's a lot of material.
- [09:32]
B
Yeah. A piece of clothing doesn't come. Well, sometimes they do come in a plastic bag, but not everyone has a shrink wrap and a box. And like, it does. Like you go to Sephora or Ulta and see on the shelves they hang on a hanger.
- [09:41]
A
Exactly.
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B
So we are special in that way. Lucky us.
- [09:44]
A
There's a lot of. A lot of different pieces. And so I think that's truly the only stat, though, that is out there. And I even think that's probably a little bit low based on just the collection of materials and the perspective and what we've seen at pact, but that's the only stat that's out there. Like, we are missing so much information. And I think I'm sure you've probably seen this trying to, like, do research and how big is this problem? We don't have the data to support it. And that's also what pac's trying to do is like, if we don't know our baseline of what the problem is or how Big this is how are we supposed to change? How are we supposed to learn? And I think that's huge.
- [10:25]
B
But like we know it's big in that when sheet masks were even more popular and all these single use beauty products were coming out, each one was like a throwaway item. Like you don't have to be a rocket science or an environmental scientist to understand that the more trash you make, the worse the world is. Right? But when I think about beauty and when I hear from brands, I often hear that plastic is a big part of the problem. Is that true? Is like plastic free packaging always better?
- [10:52]
A
This is a hot topic and it's loaded.
- [10:55]
B
Oh yeah, I've been reading lately.
- [10:57]
A
Yeah, it's crazy. So I'm going to say something that I never thought I would ever say and you're hearing it first. Plastic itself is not the enemy. And like I cringe a little bit inside because we're all just like pumped with that information of like, plastic is the worst. Plastic is the worst, right? And I think the true problem and plastic kind of gets wrapped up into these issues is over consumption, which we can talk a lot about and I can provide some tips for your listeners. Single use, plastic or otherwise, is a huge problem that we have to get away from. Like using something once that's a huge piece and I think individually wrapped. Individually wrapped or I think we see this a lot in food, but we also see it a lot in beauty is like a lot of the secondary packaging. So you open a box if you order online and there's just crap in that box. All sorts of things like extra fluff and the shrink wrap and the everything. Right. And so it's just, what is the purpose of that really being intentional and making sure that the single use sheet face sheets get rid of them. All this stuff that it's just like we use it once and it goes in the trash, that just has to go away. And I think plastic gets wrapped up in single use because a lot of the time sometimes it's single use plastic. Right? But plastic alone, when used correctly, which we'll talk about, is not the true enemy of this. It is single use. It's over consumption. And then one other point I will say is this idea around this luxe feeling and luxury where things are so heavy or we're adding extra plastic to make things look a certain way.
- [12:47]
B
I love a magnetic lipstick case.
- [12:49]
A
No, Jen, we're done with that.
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B
Okay. It clicks so nicely and it's heavy in my hand. And the beauty industry has trained me to Think it's rich and luxe.
- [12:58]
A
They're tricking you though. And they are really like, don't fall for it because that is the biggest thing. If we can gravitate towards simple designs, like, it's beautiful and if you pick it up in your hand and it's not super heavy, it's okay, I promise you. Look at how much material and how much products in there. Look at it. It's the same as the really heavy one. So don't get tricked by because they're trying to take advantage of you.
- [13:25]
B
Yeah, we like nice things. I get it. Let's talk about some of the things you mentioned. But first, I feel like there's two sides to this and we'll get into the consumer side first. But obviously your work is with consumers to help them know how to shop like this, but then also with brands to help them know how to package things better. But you did mention the consumer side with the plastics and you said you have some tips for helping people to shop better. But also just already I'm hearing, okay, we're not doing single uses. Don't think about weighted things as better. Yep. What else can you tell us? What should we be looking for when we're shopping? Eco consciously.
- [13:57]
A
Yes. So some tips to share with you all. We see a lot of packaging that. Well, let's just talk about, I guess first just plastic a little bit more since we kind of opened with that look for high value plastics. And this is going to be for maybe the nerdiest of you all out there that are really like, I want to dive in deep to this. There are plastic types that are higher value and have higher recycling rates and that is pet, HGPE and pp. And those can be highlighted on packaging if there is a little resin code on the packaging. So look out for items with those types. So PET is 1, HDP is 2, and then PP is 5.
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B
These numbers, are they in something that we would see them? Like, where do we see this?
- [14:49]
A
It's like if you go on the bottom, it's usually like indented in the bottom packaging. And this is something like imprinted into the plastic. Imprinted into the plastic.
- [15:00]
B
Oh. And so if it's not, does that mean this isn't one of those good high value plastics?
- [15:05]
A
If it's not there, that means the brand needs to add it, which we're working with them right now to add.
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B
If they are a high value plastic
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A
and if they're not, they still have. If they're not a, it would be. There's still other numbers. Right. It goes 1 to 7. Just look out for 1, 2, and 5. And then if it's not those numbers,
- [15:26]
B
it's low value, which means much harder
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A
to recycle, which means much harder or impossible.
- [15:32]
B
Got it. What? Since we're talking numbers now, I'm jumping around here, but what's up with the little arrows? Because I think that's what everybody thinks of when they think about recycling and plastic. The chasing arrows with the number in the middle of that. Yes. What is that?
- [15:45]
A
So the chasing arrows.
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B
Hard sigh from Carly.
- [15:49]
A
Yes. Hard sigh. Like, this is something that. So the chasing arrows. What this is, is it's supposed to be a symbol for recycling, but now it's kind of gravitating towards just anything like environmentalism or, you know, climate justice. Like, we're seeing it everywhere. We're saturated with this. It has no meaning because no one is monitoring this. Right. You can throw it on whatever you want.
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B
This is not like USDA organic, which the government makes sure it means. XYZ was done. No. Who made up the arrows?
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A
I have no idea. I need to learn about that.
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B
It's like a peace symbol or it's just like a smiley face. It's like just a logo.
- [16:30]
A
Yeah. And I think people think it has some merit to it and it's just been added. You can add it to whatever you want.
- [16:38]
B
Because I go to howtorecycle.org and I look at the numbers and so nobody's checking that they're putting the right number, even as to what type of plastic it is in these arrows. It's more these resin codes. You're talking about that other thing that should be telling us, Correct?
- [16:52]
A
Yep.
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B
Wow. We need a lot of education on that as consumers and brands, because I feel like nobody's talking about that.
- [16:57]
A
No one's talking about it. I will give you some. Some hope here, though. California did pass a law, and it's called truth in labeling, and it forbids people from using the chasing arrows. So this is the first state to really crack down on recyclability claims. So making it actually be regulated, which if California does it, we're going to see rippling effects on other states and hopefully others will adopt this. So there is hope with this. I just caution, when you're looking at that, at that chasing arrow, just be curious, ask the questions. Because in a lot of situations, it's just added to be added. But California is leading the way. They're also cracking down. We're seeing big brands getting sued for their recyclability. Claims. And a lot of conversation is happening from this legislation. So good things are happening, people are catching on.
- [17:52]
B
Okay, wait, I'm going to take us off topic and I might take this out. Tell me if I'm wrong here. As I've been reading about the plastics industry and what's going on with microplastics and all that. Are the plastics people, like cigarette people, like, they knew their stuff wasn't recyclable and then they got a bunch of lobbyists to go to Washington and be like, no, no, we're going to recycle, it's going to be fin. And it really wasn't fine 100%. I get so mad when I hear that because I'm like, oh, you mean you all knew that? I guess it's like logical. Of course we're making all this stuff and putting in the world, where's it gonna go? But you know, we thought we could just then put it in that bin and then it would get melted down, we do it again. That's what I learned growing up, kind of.
- [18:28]
A
Yeah, but I mean totally 100%. And let's get to the root of what plastic is. It's fossil fuels, right? It's oil. And so I think that's something too that we. If you're making virgin material, it is oil. If you melt that material down, it's oil. So I think that's something that needs to be said here. With plastic, however, we talked about high value. Like the world would look different if it was high value. If I Look at Just Pet, which is that number one, the recycling rates are about 30% and if we were to design for recycling, I bet that would even increase. But we all see that stat of like only 9% of plastic gets recycled. And it's because we're using low value plastic and we're using. There's all sorts of new things that get introduced that we're like, who try this new plastic type. It's whatever petg. And I think that's the thing. If we can get really strategic and if we need plastic and it works for that application, use these three types and let's see what happens. Like that could really help us and would help recycling facilities so they don't have to look and be like, oh, this could be seven different types of plastic. And then in that seven different types, there's like a bunch more different types that fall into that. So it's super complicated if you can't tell having this conversation. But there are high value plastics out there. We have to leverage and we have to. And here's the other tip. Look for packaging that has recycled content in it. So you're going to see it says pcr, post consumer, recycled and material. So that is something that we are looking for. We work with brands on that is don't use virgin material where we're just creating oil used material that has you. That we can actually be recycled and used again. And so that's a lot of both
- [20:31]
B
plastic and paper, I imagine. Not just plastics on that one. Right.
- [20:36]
A
Plastics, glass, metal, all of it can be recycled and used again.
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B
And pcr, that acronym stands for post post consumer Recycled.
- [20:47]
A
Yes.
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B
Okay. And so that applies to all those materials we just said, not just plastic.
- [20:50]
A
Not just plastic. Yeah.
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B
So we're looking for that. We're looking for these three resin codes which. Carly, sometimes it's inside a box. There's no way I'm gonna be able to look at the bottom of the thing. And do we want brands to tell us more about these resin codes?
- [21:03]
A
We do, yes.
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B
On their like product page, when I go to their website, should I be looking there? Do some brands put that information on the, you know, it contains these ingredients also. Here's the packaging information.
- [21:13]
A
Yep. So we're working with brands to do just that. So on the product page, include instructions. The other thing we're working with them on is to include a QR code and also on the secondary packaging as well so that when you're shopping you can see it. If it's in a box, you can also get the instructions. So the anticipation or the expectation, I guess I should say that we're going to put all this instruction on packaging in my head is just like, there's no way. There's so many pieces. Think about a tincture, right? This is the main bottle. Then you have a plastic piece here. This is glass, this is silicone.
- [21:53]
B
She's doing like a serum bottle. Guys. Imagine skinceutal CE ferulic. We got our glass bottle, then we got a little dropper thing.
- [22:01]
A
There's so many pieces. And so like having sometimes that little
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B
squeezer has a metal ring around it so it looks pretty. Yes.
- [22:08]
A
There's so many different components to one product. With a QR code, customers can scan that and it opens to recycling instructions which can change. Recycling can change based on policy, based on infrastructure, based on where you live. So labels in my head, it's just tough to just put something on there that says check locally. Like I'm sorry, I don't really. What am I going to do go in the store and check locally. So it's confusing. And so I think figuring out ways that we can provide that instruction and have the ability where we can change things and alter things so it's not just on the package forever and we wait till redesign. That's something that we're working a lot with our brands on.
- [22:55]
B
So to go back to this, when you're shopping, we know we're looking for the resin codes. We're looking for prc. What else should we be looking for? You just mentioned a dropper. Because there's like seven different materials in that one thing. Does that mean the simpler that a package is for a beauty product, likely the better it is for the environment?
- [23:13]
A
Yes. The other thing I will look out for, brands are beginning to advertise this. It's a term called monomaterial, which is just what it sounds like. One material type. So the bottle, the cap are the same material.
- [23:28]
B
So I don't have to be cleaning out, separating, taking a little spring out of a plastic tube and putting them in and recycling them in different ways. It's mono material.
- [23:36]
A
Exactly. So think of a pump. That's a perfect example. Like, the pump is such. There's so much material.
- [23:43]
B
Like a lotion pump.
- [23:43]
A
Exactly. There's a spring, there's a little piece of plastic around that spring. There's then the handle, then there's a silicone. Sometimes on the lid of the actual bottle, there's so much there. So I actually challenge listeners, like, go look at a pump and like, just be curious and look at all the different material types, because we don't spend the time to actually think through it. And like, when you're in the store, if you see something, you are all very smart shoppers. Right. If you see something, you're like, whoa, there's so many different material types. I can visually see it. That means there's mixed material. And that is going to be impossible for a recycling facility to break down.
- [24:23]
B
This is so funny. On the last episode, we just were talking about body oils and how we didn't like a pump because it squirts out sometimes and it gets slippery everywhere. And this particular body oil we liked, I think it was. We the people just has like a shaker top. And so I liked it just because I thought it felt luxury. But you're telling me also, actually, that might be better because all it is, is one little piece with a hole that shake it out instead of a pump with all these pieces.
- [24:44]
A
Exactly.
- [24:45]
B
When really everybody could be like, oil doesn't need A pump. I feel like there's some things that you're like, I guess shampoo doesn't really need a pump either. You could do a squeeze bottle.
- [24:52]
A
It doesn't need a pump.
- [24:53]
B
So all these squeeze bottles and things that are like shakers or an open top that you pour are all going to be, like, a little bit more environmentally friendly than things with pumps.
- [25:03]
A
Yes, except one exception.
- [25:05]
B
Generalizing.
- [25:06]
A
Yes. Generalizing. Yes.
- [25:07]
B
Tell me the exception.
- [25:08]
A
The exception is squeezable tubes. Squeezable tubes are very hard for us to recycle because. And if you want, I can provide a little bit more context on this. Actually might pivot to something else. Are you ready for me to kind of pivot into.
- [25:22]
B
Oh, I'm ready. Let's go. Let's go. See where the conversation takes us.
- [25:28]
A
You gotta watch me, Jen. I'm a little bossy. I'm like, let's pivot.
- [25:32]
B
It's fine. It's my podcast. I'll keep you under control.
- [25:36]
A
So I think the important thing and kind of just stepping back and why PACT exists, like I first started with, let's divert this material from the landfill. So I think we need to understand a little bit more on, like, why this material is going to the landfill. So there are three things I just want to call out that might help with. Also, when you're going through and thinking through which packaging or which product to purchase, the first thing is size. So anything that's smaller than a yogurt cup is going to fall through the cracks of a mrf, which is a material recovery facility, or pretty much the facility that your material goes to when you drop it in the recycling bin or the blue bin. Right. So it gets picked up at your house, and it goes to one of these facilities they have in their equipment anything that's smaller, two by two, a fist, gits, or a yogurt cup falls through the cracks. So I went to a mrf, and I try to go to a MRF as often as I can, and I go. And you can see the process of all these little pieces of plastic dropping.
- [26:44]
B
All from the beauty industry.
- [26:45]
A
It's all from beauty, or it's caps or it's others. But think about that.
- [26:49]
B
Okay. Okay. It's lipstick tubes, it's mascara tubes.
- [26:52]
A
It's all those things. So they're falling through the cracks and they're landing on the floor. They're coming in, they're sweeping all that up. It's going into dumpsters to the landfill.
- [27:02]
B
They're not even gonna try. Even If I like to look at how. What it was. No, I mean, you can't do that for everything. I guess. So tiny stuff, stuff goes to the
- [27:09]
A
landfill and it's all messy in there. The other thing too, that I will add is the actual purpose of these disc screens is what they are. They have little gaps because they're actually trying to crush glass. So the big thing that's happening is not only is it just falling to the ground, it's contaminating glass. So the purpose, like I said, crushing the glass, the glass falls, but also the plastic falls with it. So then in a lot of times, it's like you don't even want to mess with it.
- [27:36]
B
That broken glass that would have been able to be melted down and because glass is one of those things that's like infinitely usable, it's not because of the little plastic stuff.
- [27:45]
A
Exactly.
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B
Okay, got it.
- [27:47]
A
So size is a big thing. Think about size. Think about if you love a product and you see the little bottle and the big bottle, get the big bottle. Do it, because you're gonna use it. If you love it, go that route. The other piece, which we already talked about is like the high value plastic and the plastic. Plastic type. So we can cross that off the list. We talked about 1, 2, and 5 as being those resin codes that you look out for. Everything else has a low, low likelihood of being recycled because they can't sell that material on the market and get enough money back.
- [28:23]
B
Okay. And the 1, 2, and 5, by the way, there's not like somebody looking through all this stuff for tiny, tiny numbers. It's like a machine. It's a machine and can tell what. Okay. Yeah, okay, sorry. I'm like looking at every beauty product I have here at my desk, and I'm like, where are the numbers? Which we're working on. We're working on. Okay.
- [28:40]
A
And then the last thing is mixed material, which is why that's my last one. That I'll end with the squeezable tube. So mixed material, which. The biggest thing that drives me nuts and something to look out for is just adding metalized kind of film or metalized components to a bottle, to any kind of packaging so that it catches your eye. The minute they add that, it's not going to get recycled because it's two material types.
- [29:09]
B
Oh, because this isn't metal. This is plastic with, like a metal sheen. Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I have a lot of, like, my foundations and perfumes have this kind of cap that it's like I'm holding up a silver cap. You guys know what I'm talking about. And I'm like, clearly this isn't aluminum. Oh, I can see inside there's white stuff. It's plastic. Yeah. With like a sheen around it to make it look like metal. This is bad.
- [29:29]
A
That's bad.
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B
This is never recyclable. I mean, but Carly, I put it in the magic bin.
- [29:34]
A
So. Okay, that's. But let's talk about that because this is where PACT comes in, people, and this is where it's going to help you. So all the stuff we've just talked about in highlighting those three points, mix material, which squeezable tube goes in there. Because if you look at a squeezable tube, it is different types of plastic laminated together to make it squeezable. So even though it looks like one material, there's different.
- [29:58]
B
Stretchiness is caused by multiple plastic.
- [30:01]
A
Exactly. Yeah. So what happens? Like, what do you do? I'm lost. Right. So that's why PACT exists. Right? We are collecting those little bitty pieces. We're collecting the mixed materials, the low value plastic, through our program, which is the collection program. And it looks in different ways, but in which we can talk about. But what happens from our perspective is that we collect this material. We sort it by material type. So we, Jen, are like looking at the specific resin codes. We are going one by one because we can't even use those machines that are reading these so fast because it's so small it can't even be picked up by these machines. So we're doing it by hand. Cause that's what has to happen. And then we're consolidating this material and then it goes to the best processor that we can find to find the best home.
- [30:54]
B
I have so many questions this, but the one I think all the listeners are asking is like, where are these packed collection points? And how are you collecting everybody's little stuff? Like say, I know I don't want to throw it in the magic curbside bin, which does nothing probably, and I'm a horrible person and it just makes me feel better and gives me less guilt. What should I do instead? Where can I find a bin?
- [31:14]
A
Yes. So you just described wish cycling and I think that's an important piece and I'll get to where to go. So wish cycling is when you are like, oh, I just hope that my product is recycled. So I'm gonna throw it in and give it a kiss on the way out and hope it just gets recycled. That is so bad. I'm sorry to inform you this, but wish cycling what you're doing actually is contaminating that bin. So sometimes at recycling facilities they'll look and be like this has so many things that aren't going to be recycled. I can't even deal. And it's going to go into the landfill, or it's going to be those things that fall through the cracks and go in the landfill. It's going to be the thing that maybe goes through the entire line, but it's not a recyclable material. And so it goes to the landfill. Traffic may be locked, but savings isn't. Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile with unlimited wireless for just $25 a month forever. No contracts, no hikes, and you keep your phone. Unlock the savings@boostmobile.com Unlock $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Unlimited Wireless plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com Hear that?
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- [33:48]
B
So if I have trash and I haven't looked at my local guidelines for what actually goes in our bins and how we're separating, whatever, and I know that this is something that's not recyclable and I feel guilty about it and I don't want to put it in the regular trash because I know it's going to landfill, I'm actually worse off putting it in the recycling bin than putting it in the regular trash because I've now just messed up the good recycling stuff for the people that did read the instructions exactly and did put the correct stuff in the bin.
- [34:12]
A
When in doubt, put it in the trash?
- [34:15]
B
Yeah, like, so I go to Germany a lot, and it's so much more clear how to do this. And I feel like depending on where you live in the United States, they might give you the green bin. And then, like, good luck, Go on the website and see if you can figure out what goes in the green bin. You know what I mean? Yes.
- [34:31]
A
It's really complicated. And there's a couple things of why it's even. I think they tried to make it as convenient as possible for people to recycle, and it kind of backfired. So the first thing I will say is, when in doubt, put it in the trash. So if you were like, I don't know, put it in the trash. Well, actually, before you put in the trash, go onto the Pact website and look at our collection guidelines. They are specifically tailored to beauty. So it says point blank, what goes in the packed bin and is considered hard to recycle, what goes curbside, and then what should always go in the trash. So no matter where you send it across the country, it will never be recycled. So put it in the trash and don't buy that thing again. Right?
- [35:14]
B
Yeah. Well, I just had a bunch of guilt because I knew it couldn't go in the bin or even go to packed. So that teaches you. In a way, it's like a relearning because. Well, first, the packed bit.
- [35:24]
A
Okay, sorry. Cause we're getting to hundreds of. Yeah. We have about 3,000 bins across U.S. and Canada. We've launched with Credo, Sephora, Ulta, Cosbar. We just launched with l' Occitane and Saks Fifth Avenue. And more launches to come. So our goal is that we will have a collection bin in every single community is really, like, what we're aiming for.
- [35:50]
B
So in my local beauty retailer, if it's one of the ones you just named, and there's probably a packed bin, if there's not, should I ask them where it is?
- [35:57]
A
Exactly. Ask questions. Ask questions always.
- [36:00]
B
So, like, every Sephora has one of these.
- [36:02]
A
Every Sephora.
- [36:02]
B
Guys, go to your Sephora and find out if yours has one. I worked at Sephora. If you're in the store sometimes, like, you're like, I don't have a place to put the bin. And then it's like, in the back room and nobody knows. But, okay, we're gonna go to all our retailers and we're gonna ask them for the PAX bin. What if you don't live near a beauty retailer that is part of your program?
- [36:18]
A
Yes, Great question. If you don't live near one, we have mailback programs. So we have about 55, five brand sponsored programs where customers who do not live near a bin, which you can easily find out. If you live near a bin, go to our website, you add your zip code and it will show you all the bins located around you. If there's nothing, you can still participate in this mailback program. So a lot of our brands sponsor it. We also have a packed sponsored one where you just pay the entire fee. But I suggest you go and, and see if your favorite brands sponsor a program and they will either pay for the entire process on your behalf or there's a split cost model where you just pay for shipping and they pay for all the processing. So that is your way to make sure that even though you don't live near a bin, you can still participate.
- [37:10]
B
You guys, that's our get out of jail free card.
- [37:13]
A
Exactly.
- [37:14]
B
Do you see how everything comes back to guilt for me? But like the magic bin is not the way to go. We need to go on the PACT website and mail it back. Could I just be like, collect them in a shoebox somewhere in my house and clean them as I go and then when I have a bunch of them, do it.
- [37:27]
A
Is that like exactly. This is what I do. So I take all my empties and I put them in a bag and then when I'm ready to, I have enough and I'm like, hey, I have to go to Sephora or what have you to go purchase something. I go and I clean everything out. And you're gonna be shocked how much product is still left in there when you're cleaning these materials out. So I have a little spa day. I go and I'm just like scraping the insides out and I'm just like, I do a full, I can do like a full makeup routine. And I thought that it was all empty. So I think that's something to think about. But the clean and empty is really important. This material has to be clean and empty for us to properly recycle it. So we have a ton of education and tips on how to do that. So go check out our website. I think that is something that we are really trying to drive home. This message that if we get material back that has leftover residue in it, what is happening is that we're going to have to burn that plastic. So think about that.
- [38:31]
B
Whereas at home if I used hot water, I probably could have just gotten out the last bit of that eyeshadow or whatever. And it'll be fine.
- [38:36]
A
Exactly. So when there's contamination, which is leftover product, it will be burned for electricity, for energy. So there is a byproduct that's positive, but it will never go to the landfill. But waste to energy is not recycling. And I think, and I don't know if that term, it resonates with anyone or if you've seen that anywhere, but we are really putting all of our eggs in that basket of like speaking of a jail free card. That is what brands are saying. They're like, it's not going to the landfill. Yay. But ask the question of where is it going then? Because if it's just getting burned, to say it's not going in the landfill, that's not good enough. We're losing that poison.
- [39:13]
B
Does this happen at a mass scale?
- [39:16]
A
Yes.
- [39:16]
B
What are those facilities?
- [39:18]
A
They're all over the country.
- [39:19]
B
Are they in developing countries?
- [39:21]
A
No, they're here. They're in the U.S. yeah, and everywhere too. So it's facilities, they're burning plastic. There's so many issues with that for the populations around it, absolutely. But it's just, I think the biggest piece is like we're burning something that if it was processed correctly, we could have used it again. We could have used it in PCR in future beauty packaging. But instead it's getting burnt.
- [39:48]
B
If anybody's listening, they're like, me at this point and they're like, why is this all on me? I didn't ask for a product with eight pieces that needed to be cleaned out with seven resin codes. But I'm kind of addicted to it now. I like, I keep thinking about cigarettes and stuff. I feel like we were sold this like, idea without the truth behind it. And I want to talk a little bit about brands and like, how they can help us here. Like, they all made us love this stuff and really enjoy it and truly, like, it does make people really happy. Some of these things like and treat for themselves. But like, how can the brands make better stuff and help us do this?
- [40:27]
A
There's a lot that needs to happen at the beginning of the supply chain with the brand and, and just to kind of send your customers off and the listeners here. It's not all on you. And brands are making it seem like you are responsible for properly disposal and there's a lot of pressure on customers. And all you guys can do is just make sure that you're putting this material, dropping it off at a Sephora bin or a Credo bin, that you're just asking questions. Really, it doesn't have to be all on you, and it doesn't have to be this huge pressure that you feel. But for brands, I am not giving them a free pass. We have to come together and have these hard conversations. So a couple of things I will highlight is just use less material. So there's a term out there called lightweighting. Where. And we kind of talked about this with like, the luxe feel of, like, why are we adding weight or adding more packaging item or fill. Right. To make it seem like it's this huge box and there's a little bottle in it. Right. Like, we need to think about just less packaging, less material. Think about the design. So think about a design that is actually helps customers clean this material out. Think about design that's not. Doesn't have mixed material.
- [41:44]
B
Oh, my gosh. Like, not the tiny opening of a big bottle underneath. But I can't get a little brush in there to even clean the res. Yeah. Like, if it had a wider mouth, I could clean it easier.
- [41:53]
A
Exactly. Get rid of single use. Think about ways that you can just eliminate that or don't offer products that are just focused on single use. The biggest one that we're starting to see and have conversations about and I'm sure we could have a whole probably podcast about this is the refillables. I think that there is such a great case for refillables for specific products. Like, we're seeing this with shampoo, shampoos, we're seeing this with soaps or things that you use a lot of where it totally makes sense. Where it becomes really confusing and hard are these teeny, tiny things. Or when there are models where it's actually like, you look at it and you're like, wait, this looks like it's more plastic than it was before. Because I'm putting this refillable bottle now into this shell. And they just say it's refillable. Have you seen those?
- [42:49]
B
Well, yeah, it's like a little. There's moisturizers where it's like a yogurt cup with a foil top.
- [42:53]
A
Yeah.
- [42:53]
B
And you put that inside the shell and that's the refill. But at least I'm not. But if I like the nice shell. Cause it could sit on my. You know. Exactly. That's okay then, right?
- [43:04]
A
Yeah. I like glass, so I think it looks pretty. I have all my little things on my bathroom sink. Right. I like a glass piece cause it looks pretty. And then I purchase the refill. And that works. What I'm speaking to is like, we've seen moisturizers.
- [43:21]
B
Oh, I just saw a lipstick.
- [43:22]
A
Yeah. And it's like a shell. And then you put it in yet
- [43:26]
B
now has to come in a clear plastic so the bullet doesn't break on the way to put it inside my little component. And frankly, I'm just gonna be honest here. Lipstick's one of those things. We all like to try a new one every now and then. Like, you're not always gonna be a repeat customer on those trendier items. It's not like my sunscreen or moisturizer I use every day or my shampoo that I'm obsessed with with.
- [43:45]
A
Exactly. I think it really works for brands that you love. And then it doesn't really work for everything. So I think that's something that we're seeing a lot of. I challenge a lot of members to think about that and figure out the best refill option. Because I think when executed correctly, it is the gold standard. Anything that you can do to provide reuse, which I can share some examples of what that looks like. But figuring out ways that we can actually use this material again. So, like the durable glass pass with the pod. That's great. You're gonna use that multiple times if you purchase the pod.
- [44:18]
B
If anybody's listening and works at a brand that makes mascara. Cause we have a lot of industry people. I've been for years being like, the brush isn't broken. I'll clean. Like, why not just sell me the bottom half of the tube the next time? Like, you go through mascara so frequently. And each one comes with another weighted brush. Like, the cap is weighted. And then there's the nylon Y brush spoolie part of it. I would buy just the bottom half of the mascara.
- [44:40]
A
Exactly.
- [44:40]
B
And use the same spoolie. I don't know if there's, like, a contamination issue. Somebody get on that. Who's listening?
- [44:45]
A
Yes, please.
- [44:45]
B
Thank you. Okay. Back to our regularly scheduled program. Yeah. Because there's lots of little tiny things, but the refills. When they make sense. Pact is helping brands think that way of how to design with that in mind. Right.
- [44:58]
A
Exactly. Yep.
- [44:59]
B
And what are some other things that you're sort of like. I would love brands to know this or do this as a collective.
- [45:05]
A
I think, honestly, like, the biggest thing, you know, going to trade shows, having these conversations. If you hear of some kind of a solution. That sounds like too good to be true. It probably is. We're seeing alternative material types. We're seeing all of these things. And I think make sure that you're getting the data and asking the questions.
- [45:30]
B
Can I ask you about one in particular? I have a question about. Yeah, I just saw something, and the lid of it was made with would be that were injection molded. So it almost looks like plastic. It's the shape of a cap, you know, like, square on the outside, rounded on the inside. But it's these wood beads that now can be, like, melted into a shape almost as if it were plastic. And I was like, thinking about that. I'm like, so a bunch of machines had to make wood beads, and then they had to make the molds. The molds that they're injecting these wood beads into aren't going to be wood. They're going to be probably plastic, right?
- [46:03]
A
Yeah.
- [46:04]
B
This is the kind of thing, like, think through the logic of using this when you could have just put it in a glass jar.
- [46:09]
A
If there was a silver bullet, we would know about it already. So, like, I always think about that. If you're seeing something, you're like, I've never heard about that. And like, what is that? If there's a soulful bullet, I will call you and I will tell you, and we will hop on another podcast and I will share it.
- [46:26]
B
This is the thing every.
- [46:27]
A
Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, hot off the presses. Everyone stop.
- [46:31]
B
Guys, it's fasting. It's the new plastic and it's made of corn. And this is the future. And you will let us know, right?
- [46:36]
A
Yes, I promise you I will let you know. But it just doesn't exist. And there's like, there's so many things to talk about with just that of if we were to shift everyone over to glass, there's different issues there. Everyone's going to approach this differently. I guess is what I'm trying to say is that there's no silver bullet. You have to pick what really your brand values and your. If you're a founder, what you personally value and stick with it, push boundaries, ask the questions and see what you come across and join PACT and have that conversation with others who have learned and asked the same questions so that we can pool these resources together. So I think that's something.
- [47:19]
B
This is a good point, because if I'm an indie brand founder, and I'm listening, I'm like, I don't have the staff to do this. I don't have the money. I don't have someone on staff who's ESG or knows packaging. If they join pact, do you share openly? Like, oh, big old l' Oreal's doing this. You should do that.
- [47:34]
A
Exactly. And that's really our goal for 2024 is starting these conversations not in like we're having a webinar and pact's bringing on experts, but like peer to peer collaboration and communication is really what we're trying to set up. And it's working groups, it's creating documents together so that we can share like hey, this totally flopped for me. No one should go that direction. Let's pivot and do something else. And so we're not just repeating mistakes and that it's just clear what's working and what's not. And then also getting the packaging suppliers in the conversation as well. Packaging suppliers have a huge role to play in educating from the way beginning of the supply chain, the true end of life reality, the carbon footprint of that packaging. And I think that's something where we want packaging suppliers to join us. We want them to be part of these conversations as well.
- [48:33]
B
Yeah, because the marketing doesn't just happen from the beauty brand to me the consumer where they sort of like sometimes greenwash it. We all know what happens. But from the raw material supplier to the product development person at the beauty brand, they might have been greenwashed by the raw supplier. It was like it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're like cool, I'll be able to go tell my superiors that we'll put it in the new packaging. Good to go.
- [48:52]
A
Yes.
- [48:52]
B
But it was the same as them telling me it's an easy fix when it wasn't.
- [48:56]
A
Exactly. And I think that's the hard part where you're getting your information from a packaging salesperson. Right. They want to sell you something, they're trying to sell you something. And they are not trained in end of life reality and recyclability and no fault of their own. Right. That's their role. And so that's where also I will say, and this is where I have a lot of is that we're seeing companies who are PACT members and strategic partners of ours called Bluebird and Novi. These are two organizations that are helping brands figure out what is their carbon footprint of their packaging choices or Novi Connect really telling the full story about recyclability. And so that's something that expands beyond PACT and our kind of scope and role here. But we to want work hand in hand with these individuals to make sure that claims are rooted in data and every claim is, you know, substantiated through clear data. So check out them. I mean if you're a brand and talking or listening in, I would Say check out pact, of course, but come to us and we'll connect you with these two other partners because they're doing amazing things and we also work hand in hand with them to provide packed, exclusive resources. So there's a lot more we can talk about there now.
- [50:18]
B
You could give them your final packaging and your supply chain info and they would be like, here's your score. Now do this xyz and this will get you a better, less impactful as far as the environment goes.
- [50:28]
A
Exactly.
- [50:28]
B
Score and packaging. I made it sound really simple. I know that takes time and money and people, but you guys are helping to facilitate that, so.
- [50:35]
A
Exactly. Yeah. It's super important.
- [50:37]
B
I don't wanna talk specific. Cause I know you're a collective and multiple brands are on your board and you work with multiple brands. But like if I'm shopping, I'm not gonna say who worst offenders are, but like, are there people doing good stuff? Like are there brands we should be looking for? Do you have any specific or even just types of bottles you've seen lately that you're like, this is good. This is mono. What was the word you used?
- [50:56]
A
Mono material. There's a lot of good things. The problem is very complex, but I don't wanna leave people of like the doom and gloom. Right. It's a complex problem and there's. But there's a lot of progress happening and I'm in this and I'm very hopeful that our industry is going to really make some serious change. I also have to highlight that this is a woman dominated industry and it is amazing the badass women that we work with who are like, of course we're going to put competition aside to help each other. And I think that is something that, that I don't think other industries have really figured out. And so kudos to beauty. I think it's amazing that if we can show that we can do this and others can replicate it in other industries, if it's going to happen, beauty's going to lead the way. And that's why I jumped at the opportunity to be a part of the beauty industry because of just that. And women have such a role to play. So I always like to share that because it's such an impactful piece and why we have the progress we have.
- [52:07]
B
Okay, well let me ask this way then. What does Carly use? Because clearly you know so much more than us. When you're shopping and I can see you, the listeners can't. But you, I'm sure, use some curl cream in your gorgeous curls. Or something like, what are the products that you see doing it?
- [52:22]
A
Well, some of the brands that I love right now. And honestly, you're gonna. I'm gonna list these off and you'll be like, oh my God, you're such a granola hippie girl.
- [52:33]
B
I mean, that would track. That's on brand for you.
- [52:37]
A
I mean, my staple product of all times, Doc Bonners Bronner's is just. I love them. I use the bar. So like, I love how they moved away from. They have the big plastic bottles which are curbside recyclable and you can dilute it. You can do whatever.
- [52:55]
B
I use the lavender like every day and I throw it in the bin and I was like, oh God, I gotta go check it.
- [53:00]
A
The big one. The big one is. Yeah. So if it's an older one, the
- [53:03]
B
one with all the crazy kind copy on it.
- [53:04]
A
Yes, the crazy copy everywhere. I get the soap bar, which I like because then it's just the paper and I'm like, oh, this is great.
- [53:12]
B
Oh yeah, this is a good tip. Bars are always going to be better than a bottle.
- [53:15]
A
Bars. Yeah, bars do a bar. Yeah. You know, we see shampoo bars. We see, you know all those things. Other brands. I love plain products. Do you know about them?
- [53:26]
B
Tell me.
- [53:26]
A
Okay, so plain products is. It's an aluminum. The scouting reports end Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile get unlimited wireless for $25 a month forever. And keep your phone. It's a veteran move. Unlock the savings@boostmobile.com Unlock $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile unlimited wireless plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com With Cricket Wireless you can count on reliable nationwide 5G because Cricket Wireless is on the AT&T network, which means you can start listening to that new album that just dropped at home while running errands. And at the G without any hiccups. Find plans with unlimited data for every lifestyle and price point. Switch to Cricket. Today PNC bank brings you call of the wild money moves.
- [54:14]
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Hear that?
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A
Yolo. That's an Internet troll telling you to put all your money into a single investment.
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He wants you to liquidate your emergency
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A
fund YOLO and buy a digital racehorse snack silicon stave. YOLO stay vigilant. He's very persistent. YOLO guard against wild money moves with PNC Bank. Brilliantly boring since 1865 bottle and it's shampoo conditioner, it's body oil, it's body wash. And they have a full. They have. They manage their entire reuse system. So what Happens is you go on their website, you purchase their product, products, it gets sent to you, and you then set up either with a subscription model or you order a refill. They send you the new bottle with a return label. So then you take that aluminum bottle, you put it back in that box with the shipping label. They take that empty bottle, they sanitize it, fill it again at their facility, and then ship it out to the next person. So they are like gold standard. I love them.
- [55:27]
B
I've seen a couple of doing this model, which does mean you would have to love the product. So you keep wanting to use exactly that product. By the way, P, L, A, I, N E. Because I know everything's spelled funny in the beauty industry because of trademarks. So that's plain products that you're talking about. You have hair and body wash, shampoo, conditioner, and you like the products and they're great.
- [55:47]
A
This is the other tip I also like. And maybe this is not quite. This is not packaging focused, but I tend to gravitate towards brands that use either aloe vera or oil. So, like, right now I'm really into Wonder Valley. It's actually an oil olive oil company, and they use that in their products. Because for me, I'm like, I don't wanna buy something that's mostly water. I'm like, that's just not my jam.
- [56:14]
B
Wait, that's a good way to think about it. Because you just paid for the weight, the carbon footprint, the larger plastic bottle to buy water. So a more concentrated product is always gonna be a better product.
- [56:25]
A
Which it's why bars also why, like, we see a great other brand, Everest. So they're a condensed version of. I think it's just conditioner, but I could be wrong. They could have other products, but you do a little pee amount on your hand and then you add water and then it's put in your hair and it's like, I'll have that in my shower for so long.
- [56:49]
B
Right?
- [56:49]
A
Because it's not a big bottle full of water.
- [56:52]
B
That one's E V E R I, S T. By the way, everybody who's listening, I will put both pact's website and links to some of these brands or all of these brands you've mentioned in the show notes for people. Because I know we said a lot of letters and acronyms and things as we were talking, but to help people find them, I'm looking at the Everest Deep Conditioning Concentrate. They call it concentrate, and it comes in like a little aluminum tube. So you just need a little Bit of that. And then the water gets it from the shower and you go to town and you're good to go.
- [57:18]
A
You do the. Yeah, so that's great.
- [57:20]
B
Waterless conditioner concentrate. Cool.
- [57:22]
A
The other one, I will say is Mob Beauty, who is a founder of Pact. And they are doing some pretty cool things with packaging. That has been their key focus. They have invested so much into creating custom solutions for their brand because they think it's that important. So they've gone through so many iterations, but everything's refillable. So check out Jen, their mascara, because I love their mascara.
- [57:50]
B
They do this.
- [57:51]
A
They do this. And I'm an Ilia girl, too. I love Ilia. Like all the clean gals out there who are like, swear by Ilia. I think Mobs Mascara.
- [58:01]
B
Ilia mascara. Is that what you're talking about? Specific. Okay.
- [58:03]
A
Mobs Mascara.
- [58:03]
B
Yeah, that comes up all the time.
- [58:05]
A
I know Mobs mascara is better than Ilias, and that's just my personal opinion, but honestly, check them out, because I was like, what? It's all vegan. It's all the things.
- [58:14]
B
Oh, this is what I was talking about. It just says endlessly refillable, and then you use 75% less material. So when you buy it again, you're just buying the actual mascara, not the to be part.
- [58:25]
A
Exactly. And honestly, I buy a lot of refills. I don't even sometimes buy the durable. I just buy the pods with the stuff that I'm like, oh, I don't really need to be pretty. For their mascara, for instance, they have like a hard cover and like, the pod goes in there. I just buy the refill. Yeah. And I'm like, whatever.
- [58:44]
B
Well, it's also kind of like saves money if you're. I never thought about that. Yeah, it's in something that you could use it anyway. So if you don't want the nice jar to sit out, like. Yeah, why not? Why not even the shampoos that come in, like a pouch that you're meant to, like, then put in the bottle you originally bought?
- [59:00]
A
Exactly.
- [59:00]
B
Hand soaps. You could just use the pouch.
- [59:04]
A
Just use the pouch.
- [59:05]
B
True. That's a good one. These are all good brands. And I didn't know. And I didn't know. I love Wonder Valley's olive oil. I don't think I knew that they made beauty products. Is that bad of me?
- [59:15]
A
No, it's a new thing. And I just. I honestly grabbed. I love their label of, like, the.
- [59:20]
B
Look at that branding. Look at that branding. Come on now. That's like says Carly all over it. I know. It's great branding. I'll check out their beauty products.
- [59:30]
A
Yeah, so those are some. I mean, also Ilia too. I mean, love them. They're doing. We work really closely with them. They're mascara tube. I forget the stats on them. I meant to pull it up before.
- [59:42]
B
No, that's okay. This is good because you don't sound like you're on their payroll as like the Ilia spokesperson. But. But we will look it up for ourselves. But we'll know that their mascara is in a kind of packaging that is eco, friendlier, perfect.
- [59:55]
A
Yes. They made some changes. They shifted.
- [59:57]
B
Yeah. I feel like we media also have to play a part in this, in that we shouldn't be saying eco friendly and we shouldn't be saying recyclable because it tells you something that's actually not true. So I'm always trying to say, like, eco, friendlier, just so you know that you're still making an impact. Carly, before you go. Cause now I have some shopping to do. But first, we need to do the Fat Mascara 5. I didn't warn you about this, but we do this at the end of every interview. A little speed round. Just questions about you. We've learned a lot from you. Nothing about you, but that's good because we were learning about important things. But now a little bit about Carly. What's the first beauty product you ever used? Do you remember?
- [60:32]
A
I had to be Dr. Bronner's.
- [60:34]
B
Okay. Was there. Did you go? Which scent?
- [60:37]
A
Lavender.
- [60:38]
B
Lavender. Okay. The purple one.
- [60:39]
A
I love it.
- [60:40]
B
I love that as my shower gel. Okay, last thing you paid for. You have to be honest, even if it was something stupid today, what's the last thing you paid for?
- [60:48]
A
Honestly, like chicken tenders last night.
- [60:53]
B
Perfect. That's the exact kind of answer I wanted.
- [60:55]
A
I want beauty.
- [60:57]
B
No, no, I just meant in general.
- [60:59]
A
No, I got chicken tenders and French fries last night and listen to some bluegrass music.
- [61:05]
B
Oh, nice. Sounds like a lovely evening.
- [61:07]
A
Okay.
- [61:07]
B
I was going to ask you, what's your favorite snack?
- [61:09]
A
Oh, I'm into the perfect bar. The peanut butter Perfect bar.
- [61:14]
B
Oh, okay. I'll have to check that out. On your day off. It's your day off. Picture it. It's 11am what are you most likely doing?
- [61:21]
A
Hiking.
- [61:22]
B
Where do you live?
- [61:23]
A
Colorado.
- [61:25]
B
Ugh. Jealous.
- [61:26]
A
Are you?
- [61:26]
B
Like, you doing the 14ers?
- [61:28]
A
You know that's not my jam.
- [61:29]
B
I'm.
- [61:30]
A
I am like, I'm on the 13ers, where there's no one around me and I don't like to be near people, so no, I'm like fourteeners. All the crowds do that. Feel good about yourself. I'll be lazy, hiking, chilling with my dogs.
- [61:46]
B
So funny. This is the first time I've asked someone that question. They have the same answer as me because that's what I hike on my days off. So that's funny. It's just never happened before on the show. Okay, last question. What do you need to get a good night of beauty sleep? Like, what has to be done or what thing needs to be around you or what type of room? Like, just anything that you're like, okay, now I can sleep.
- [62:03]
A
My face has to be looking like a glazed donut. Like, I have to be like, full moisturizer because I'm in Colorado and it's so dry here. So, like, I have to have an inch of moisturizer on my face to be like, I'm going to sleep well and wake up and feel really good.
- [62:22]
B
What is your pre bed product then that you glaze up with?
- [62:25]
A
What if. I honestly, I've been using a CBD blended balm from this company called Ned in Boulder. And what I like about it is that it's CBD infused because I have rosacea, and so it really helps calm my face. I think it's meant for your body, but I put it on. The other thing is skin food.
- [62:50]
B
Oh, Veleda.
- [62:51]
A
Yes. The green one. The green one.
- [62:53]
B
And yeah, that's one of my classics.
- [62:56]
A
Lather that on. So that's also a good favorite.
- [62:59]
B
I'm on the Ned website right now, and not only do they have face products, I think it looks like they have a sleep blend that looks like it's an oral supplement to get sleep. But you're just talking about their face product, right?
- [63:09]
A
Yeah.
- [63:09]
B
I have learned so much. This is so great. We probably need to do, like, a second and third podcast to get more into the details, but this has been a great starting point for a lot of people who want to try and do better for the world. So thank you so much for, like, dumbing it down for us and keeping it simple and sharing your. Your knowledge.
- [63:25]
A
Oh, my gosh, thank you. And I think takeaways go drop off your empties for listeners and then brands join pact. Let's do this together. And we keep costs low. We really want anyone who's touching beauty to be a part of it. So there's so much work to be done. But I'm also super hopeful we can do this. If we come together and everyone does their part, even if it's the smallest of little things. So thank you so much for having me and it was such a joy to have this conversation. We hope you enjoyed the show.
- [63:58]
B
It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your
- [64:08]
A
beauty questions and hear what products you love to share a raise a wand product with you or to ask a beauty question, Email us at infoatmascara.
- [64:16]
B
If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the States, United United States is 646-481-8182.
- [64:27]
A
Thanks so much for listening. Traffic may be locked, but savings isn't. Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile with
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B
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Forever. No contracts, no hikes, and you keep your phone. Unlock the savings@boostmobile.com Unlock $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Unlimited wireless plan. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. What if you laughed all through your commute? Or if you heard the funniest story while at the gym? Well, now you can. I'm Jameela Jamil and guests on my new podcast, Wrong Turns share their most mortifying and hilarious disaster stories. I'm talking people like Mae Martin, Bob the Drag Queen, Katherine Ryan, Jake Johnson, Margaret Cho, Simon Pegg Penn Badgley, and and so many more. So listen wherever you get your podcast.
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B
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A
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A
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