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- [00:00]
Jen
Foreign. Okay. Hi. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Fat Mascara Podcast about beauty culture with a tagline that's coming by 2025. It's Jen. It's Friday, which means we're going deep with a beauty insider. Jess is going to be here in just a few seconds. Today's guest is content creator Sonia Ramos, who breaks down makeup and skincare for all the bitches out there. That's right. I said bitches. I'm so sorry. There is an E on this podcast because it is explicit, because we have Sonya and she keeps it very, very real. She's a proud member of Gen X. She's a makeup artist, She's a content creator. We originally recorded this interview in 2022, but we're replaying it now. Cause Sonya has had quite a year. So in 2024, she was a member of the Sephora squad. I don't know if people know what that is. It's a collective of creators. They receive support and membership from each other and Sephora's experts all year long. They actually just announced the 2025 seph, but she's a member of 2024. She now has a combined following of more than 780,000 people on TikTok and Instagram. So if you like what you hear, you can follow her yourself. She's at Officially sonyaramos on both those platforms. At Officially Sonya Ramos. Why do I say at. You know what I mean? Officially Sonia Ramos. So she's going to share a bit of her story, how she became a content creator over the age of 40, her favorite products, her tips. Let's just get into it.
- [01:30]
Jess
Sonia, I love your videos so much, but I need to know, how did you start doing these? Because obviously, like, the medium is quite new. TikTok has not been around forever. So, like, how did you get into all this?
- [01:43]
Sonia Ramos
I kind of started it during COVID but I was doing a, like, handbag videos and stuff like that, and somebody asked me what lipstick I had on. So then I just started sharing lipsticks and stuff, what I was using for my face, like in my videos. So then I was like, oh, maybe I should do, like, some makeup videos. I really didn't take off until probably September of 20, I think 2021.
- [02:11]
Jess
And this is all, like, quite new. Yeah, there's a reason all of a sudden, like, you just started, like, popping up on my feed.
- [02:17]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, it was the concealer video that I did when I said, you know, if you're over 40, you can't do it. Like the young bitches you have to do it like the older. And so that kind of put me on this thing on TikTok. So, yeah, that's how I honestly, that's how I started. Then I started going in with skincare. And then what really opened the doors for me, too is when I did a documentary for Sephora. It's their little YouTube documentary that they pick certain people each month. And so I got to be part of that. And then I never even knew it was Sephora Squad. I did not know it existed. I had no idea. And so I kind of went, asked my followers to do testimonies, and I made it. So then I moved to. But then it's 2022, girl.
- [03:05]
Jess
Wait, can we back up for a second? Because everyone wants to know, if they don't know already, what's the concealer for the younger bitches and concealer for the older bitches? Like, pretend we're doing one on one eye and one on the other.
- [03:18]
Sonia Ramos
So the first eye, a lot of younger creators put a lot of concealer and they put it closer to the eye. I was telling everybody to apply it a lot lower to the eye and then kind of bring it up like a lift. So then as soon as the product hits closer to your eye, it's going to be less creasing. And so that became a trend. So now you see a lot of people doing before and afters on concealers. That's what they do. They do like a big square. I did a big square. And that was the end to the. No. And then I did one just like about 1 inch down below of the eye, just like right here. And so I just said, just bring it up, bring it up. There you go. And I cussed in that video, too. So I was just like. When I posted that video, I actually posted the wrong video. What happened was the other one was a little bit longer, like I was kind of explaining. And this one was more like to the point. So I posted the wrong one. I'm not even joking. Probably for the first two weeks. It was just insane because I had a lot of other makeup videos. So that video made my. It had like 3.5 million views on it. And back then, that was a lot. Now it's like 7:20. Now it's a lot. And then it made a lot of my other videos go viral as well. So then people just started looking at all my stuff. And, yeah, it was pretty overwhelming, honestly, because I'm just a normal person. I had a 9 to 5 job. I'm a mom. I'm A grandma. So I was just minding my business.
- [04:51]
Jess
What kind, what kind of job did you have? You don't need to like, say the company. Like, what kind of job?
- [04:56]
Sonia Ramos
Oh, I worked in the. So I worked at. In Washington state. It is legal. Okay, first of all, second, I worked for the weed industry. I was a processing manager. So I was a manager to 10 employees. So that's what I did. I had a full time job and then I would do content in the middle of the night. That's why a lot of people thought that I didn't have no more outfits because I was always wearing hoodies all the time. I was either. I was doing it in the morning and I was doing it at night because I was committed.
- [05:25]
Jen
Because she was working on TikTok.
- [05:27]
Sonia Ramos
Because I was working. So you know how TikTok, you get addicted to TikTok and you watch videos, you're like, oh, I'm gonna be on it for 10 minutes and you're on it for three hours.
- [05:36]
Jen
Yep.
- [05:36]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, that's what happened to me. So for me, I was addicted to making content because it was so frustrating, fun. I could be myself, I could say whatever I wanted to say, and I didn't really care. I did meet. And so I think for that video, I was just putting my little self out there. And that's probably one of the biggest things for older women to do is put themselves out there just to see what people would say. I got like, really good responses and then I got really negative responses.
- [06:02]
Jess
So what were the negative responses?
- [06:05]
Sonia Ramos
You're too old to cuss. Why are you doing that? That's too much makeup. We're too old. We shouldn't even be wearing makeup. You name it, I got it. Oh, yeah, Your eyebrows are too dark. Your eyebrows look like Sharpies. You name any negative thing that they could say about you was on that video, by the way.
- [06:25]
Jess
I don't know why I asked. Like, what the neg? Like, what's wrong with me? I'm like, what's the negative? What did they say? Negative, I think, because I think you're so amazing.
- [06:32]
Jen
What could you find more? Like your content? Yeah.
- [06:35]
Jess
Yeah. Like, I find you so inspiring. The first video I saw of you, I was. I mean, not even just the first. I crack up at your videos. Like, I laugh out loud because you just have such a great delivery. You say stuff that's funny. We're like, I'm sure you realize it's funny, but, like, it's so subtly funny. I don't. I just think you're amazing. So I'm like, why? What would anyone say bad about you? Like, it's, you're such a breath of fresh air. So I don't know, I just adore you. Anyway, carry on.
- [07:00]
Sonia Ramos
So I think the reason why a lot of people say negative things is simply because that's the reflection of them. I have a lot of friends that are content creators and they're like, I wish I could be like you because you are yourself and you're getting paid to be yourself now.
- [07:15]
Jess
Yeah.
- [07:15]
Sonia Ramos
And I can't do that. I have to be a certain way, I have to carry myself a certain way and I wish that I could be like you. So I think that's the main reason too. And I'm very confident within myself. And I think when you see older women be confident. A lot of other women that are, are always going to say something regardless just to make somebody feel like, oh, well, if I say something negative then it's going to bug them. But it doesn't. Honestly, I just laugh. I think it's funny.
- [07:43]
Jen
Do you think if you started making videos when you were like 22, you would have been able to do that?
- [07:47]
Sonia Ramos
I think in your 20s, honestly, and I'm going to tell you this, it's all about confidence. In my twenties I was not confident at all. So I would be like the 20 year old creators. And I'm not saying all. I know a lot that are very self conscious of what people say, people really care about. Like in your 20s, like you care about what people say because you're trying to find yourself, you're trying to like figure things out. You're comparing yourself to your friends, like, how come my friends are doing this and how come I'm here And you continue to do that in your 30s. And in your 30s you're kind of like, I'm trying to find myself. You know what? This is what I like. I like doing this, I like doing that. And then in your 40s, you just don't care. So I think for me, I put myself out there in a bright space and you have to have tough skin. I've had a long, rough life. So for me, any negative things. I grew up with eight cousins that were guys, no girls. So you know how when you have eight cousins, they be on you, they don't care, they'll tell you how they feel. So I come at you.
- [08:48]
Jen
Sharpie eyebrows. That's nothing.
- [08:51]
Sonia Ramos
Come at me, come at me. Yes, yes, come at me.
- [08:54]
Jen
I'm ready for y'all, but okay, you started Making these videos to me already. You had, like, the skills of a makeup artist. Like, maybe not the professional training, but, like, you know how to put on a face. Like, where did that all. Were you doing that before? Did you show up at the processing center with, like, completely perfect makeup every day?
- [09:13]
Sonia Ramos
No, I was at the processing center when I turned 14 years old, trying to do a winged eyeliner. Now, I could do a winged eyeliner when my eyes closed. Now. Now I'm thinking I'm badass and thinking, I can do a winged eyeliner without looking at in the mirror. No, it's wiggly. That's messed up. But how I. Yeah, how I started is this. Is that I just was just doing my own makeup. You know, back then, we didn't have a lot of makeup skills or even a lot of makeup products, so we had to kind of mix and match, do things that normal people wouldn't do. Like, for instance, like, we would use the blush for the lips. You know, you're. For your blush, and then you would just apply it everywhere for your brown eyeshadow, you would make it as a bronzer in certain areas, even though it was patchy, chalky, and we look like ghosts. When I was in my 20s, I really was. I always would practice. It's not that I would watch anybody because we didn't have YouTube back then. We didn't have nobody to go and look at. There was no social media. There was not even no Internet yet. So we would look at what everybody else around us was doing. Like, okay, how do you do that? And then they would show us visually. I would watch my mom do her makeup. I would watch my aunts do their makeup. Like, I would watch my friends. So it was kind of like we would all learn together. Even though it was bad, I didn't start getting into really good makeup until I was in my 30s, because then I started doing cut creases. I started learning how to do lashes. My whole makeup, the way that I look back then to now is like a whole transition. And I really liked a smokey eye in my 30s. Like, that was my thing. That was my go to a smokey eye. A brown or a black. Like, it had to be those colors. And now that I'm older, honestly, it's more about the skin. And it's really interesting that I like a fresh face. I like just eyelashes, like, a little shimmer on the eyes, a little gloss, a little bronze and a blush, and I'm ready to go. Like, I'm ready. And so it's just a transition of what you really, really love and what you really like. So when I started doing tips for makeup, I made them very, very basic 101s. Anybody can learn them. Like, it doesn't take a rock scientist to figure it out, because the more easier it is, the better someone's going to learn from you. And you have to be funny and you have to, like, put things here and there in your content so people can really get to know, oh, she's a little sassy.
- [11:39]
Jen
A little sassy.
- [11:41]
Sonia Ramos
You know what I mean? She's a little sassy. She cusses a little. She's my cup of tea. And so when I started creating just people, simple videos like that, it just took off. You have to do segments. You can't do a full face because then people get like, okay, back up, back up. How did you apply that? So I try to just, okay, this is how I apply bronzer. This is how you do, like, a really quick liner. This is how you do a really quick eyeshadow using an eyeshadow stick. This is how you do this, this is how you do that. And then I really focus more on skincare because I feel like with skincare, if the skin is skinning and if the skin is your healthiest, then the makeup is going to be flawless.
- [12:18]
Jess
When I think of people who are, like, really into beauty on TikTok, I'm thinking these are people who are really into beauty. But are the folks who are coming to you, are they necessarily beauty people? Are some of the people. Because it's interesting, you had, like, people who were following you for, like, handbags, it sounds like, at the start, but are they beauty people? Are they people who, like, maybe, like, were never into beauty at all?
- [12:36]
Sonia Ramos
They were never into beauty. Some. Some were into beauty. It just depends. Honestly, I. I'm having a lot of, like, younger followers, I think, because I hang around younger creators and I. I try to make videos or I'll try to ask, like, what the trends are, especially when it comes to, like, makeup and stuff, because I'm very curious. You know what I mean? Because I like. I'm a sponge. I like to learn a lot. I like to know what's on trend just. Just for my benefit. But, like, for the people that watch me, they do not know how to do their makeup. Most of them. Most of them don't even know how to wash their face correctly. So I didn't know that in the beginning, when I started doing these videos, until I started getting a lot of DMs.
- [13:15]
Jess
Oh, like you were too. Like, advanced level. Like, you were too.
- [13:17]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. They're like, girl, I need you to do a quick eyeshadow look. But, like, simple, one product, one color.
- [13:25]
Jen
So you started listening.
- [13:26]
Sonia Ramos
Can you show me how to do a lip liner? Yes. I got a lot of people ask, can you do a lip liner? Can you do this? Can you do that? Like, then they were like, well, what skincare are you using? Because you have really good skin. So then I started showing, like, how I did my skincare. I did, like, the icing video where I used an ice cube. I started showing, like, Vaseline. My grandma, why I call her, you know, my Wella, she used Vaseline for the longest time. My mom used Avon and Oil of Olay. That's her thing. That's her shit that she loves. And she still continues to use it even though I try to introduce her to a lot more stuff. Women are very senile. They don't like change and they like what they need. They use, like, their old liner since a long time ago. You know, the red. Maybe that's what they use. Yes, the two pack. The two pack, girl. Two pack. They're like, sonia, how can I make my eyeliner look like yours, girl? Well, you need to use a liquid or a pin. You can't be using the Maybelline anymore.
- [14:27]
Jen
But, Sonia, you get two for the price of one. It's great.
- [14:31]
Sonia Ramos
You get two for the price of one.
- [14:34]
Jess
Jen and I both put our fingers up like buttons.
- [14:36]
Sonia Ramos
Everybody knows, because if you know, you know. Everybody knows about that. Everybody knows about the covergirl. Everybody knows about the little quad of the eyeshadow they still be using.
- [14:48]
Jen
Things have improved. Come along with me.
- [14:51]
Sonia Ramos
Yes, yes. So I'm like, look, you see how old is that makeup that you got, girl? And they're like, I don't know, about 25 years old. I'm like, exactly.
- [14:59]
Jen
Oh, wow. Okay. You. So you really had to go back to basics.
- [15:03]
Jess
No, I know. I know these people. They. I. I'm not naming names. I know these people. I know these people.
- [15:09]
Sonia Ramos
One of them is Mom. She has this liner. It's like this. It's to this. I'm like, mom, how long.
- [15:15]
Jen
Listen, if you're only wearing it to church once a month, like, that's going to last for 20 years.
- [15:20]
Sonia Ramos
But that's what it is. They only wear makeup when they go to church, when they go to dinner or at an event. Everything else, they do not wear nothing. So that's what it was really like. Okay, I really need to show these people, especially older women that are 50s, 60s. Yeah. So then I, I just was like, I had so many DMs, so I was like, okay, now I know what videos that I need to do. So I started doing Blush Placement. Placement pays a really big part where you apply your makeup. If we apply it in certain areas, it's either going to make us look a little droopy or look a little lifted. And so everybody's face shape is different. So I was trying to find techniques that it could go on everybody's face shape. So when I did the concealer video and it popp off, then my blush video popped off after that because I did a video where it was more fuller here and more of a lifted. And so when I did that video, I only had like 2000 views on it. And by the time that concealer video hit, it had like over 3 million views on it too. So that's what I'm saying. Like, you do not know when you are going to go viral. You do not know anything. So I just continue to post. I really don't focus on stuff like that. I just focus on more education, more one on ones, and just want everybody to really love their skin that they're in when it comes to not wearing no makeup versus wearing makeup, you know what I mean? Because a lot of people, they kind of use makeup for their security blanket. Just like women with long hair always tell me, like, I can't cut my hair like yours. Like, I need my hair because it makes me feel beautiful. And, you know, I get a lot of that too. I get a lot of people's stories. Like, I get so many DMs on just how I inspire everybody to or motivate people to take care of their skin more and honestly wear makeup. Because there's a lot of women that never wore makeup because they did not know how. Their parents didn't teach them, their mom didn't teach them. And a lot of people, including me, didn't really know how to use the new.
- [17:22]
Jen
You said that's your niche basics, right? But it also is 40 plus. I mean, you put it right there on the homepage of your TikTok. Do you clearly. You said you're 45, so that's part of it. This is your demographic, right? Do you ever feel limited that you're just speaking to that audience? Or like, what led you to focus really specifically on that you think somebody else isn't speaking to that audience?
- [17:43]
Sonia Ramos
Well, when I first started TikTok, there was nobody speaking about it. Nobody. People on YouTube, people on Instagram, people on Facebook. But on TikTok, no. So when I decided that I was going to say over 40 or even sometimes I'll say mature ladies. Mature ladies just means a whole broad of any age group. You know what I mean? So for like me, I, I kind of stuck to that, honestly, because I am in that area. Like, I know how I am when I was in my 20s, I know how I was when I was in my 30s. But I'm not trying to be there. I'm trying to be in the space where I'm at right now. And I feel like even 30 year olds can take some advice that we say, you know what I mean? Because everyone's going to get old, everyone's going to age. And sometimes a lot of people for that, like, oh no, I'm not gonna follow her, she's too old. Or why are you on this app? Because you're too old. And I'm like, because you're going to be.
- [18:40]
Jess
Did somebody my age.
- [18:41]
Sonia Ramos
Oh yeah, I get that a lot. I get that a lot. Like you wouldn't believe a lot of the things, but I let them comments sit there. I'm not the type of, type of content creator that deletes blocks.
- [18:53]
Jen
I have noticed that. I find it really refreshing because it also is like your audience usually comes to your defense against those people. Like, if someone comes for you, I'm like, don't mess with Sonia.
- [19:04]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, they come for, for the people. I'm like, hey, you asked for it. I'm not gonna, I ain't gonna save you.
- [19:10]
Jen
I'll tell you the thing that I really changed from you is I try to drink more water. Good Lord. If I hear one more time from you, drink more water. And you're so right. And why do I not listen to you until like I see you in a 20 second video telling me to drink more water?
- [19:22]
Sonia Ramos
Because it's hard. You know, a lot of people don't like drinking water. We like things that are sugary, we like things that taste good. We like things that, that elevate our life. But water is going to elevate your skin.
- [19:43]
Jen
Jess, you ever notice how your skin sort of changes in the winter?
- [19:47]
Sonia Ramos
Sure.
- [19:48]
Jen
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- [20:17]
Jess
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- [20:44]
Jen
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- [21:22]
Sonia Ramos
I have like a lot of friends that you know, were Mac makeup artists. And when you start doing makeup on like your friends and your family and like I would do my makeup on, I would do makeup on my mom, on my aunts. So I have older kids and so when they were in high school I would do a lot of the makeup for all the younger girls that were doing homecomings. That's what I was doing. I was just doing freelancing just for the culture. Just doing it to help people out. Because a lot of times a lot of the girls couldn't afford a makeup artist and stuff like that. They could only afford like the dress and the hair and that was important. I was like just, I would tell my son Julian just have them come over here and I could just do their makeup. So I did it for the longest time. My son Julian is 28 now. But you know, high school, then my son Andrew, then my son Elijah. So all of them, I did all their little girlfriends, all their friends makeup. So I learned a lot of techniques. When it came to younger skin, I learned A lot of different techniques when it came to older skin. So it was really easy for me to tell people, placement is very important. The size of the brush is very important. And then just keeping it basic and not applying a lot of makeup is really, really important too.
- [22:35]
Jen
Some content creators like you look at, they can only do their own makeup. Like, I remember we had on way back in the day, it was like, was it Patrick Starr? I can't remember. He said when he had to do somebody else's makeup, he had to stand behind them so that he could be putting it on, like, as if it was his own face. So clearly. Oh, my God, like, you're saying, like, doing it on other people. That's why you have more expertise than I think a lot of. A lot of creators do. So what have you had to adjust since you became a mature lady? And what age did that happen?
- [23:03]
Sonia Ramos
Look it, I'm gonna be honest. I transitioned to gray hair when I was 35. My face was still young, but the hair was not. The hair was telling a different story, and that's fine. So what it did for me is it created just a beauty standard of freedom, number one. And number two, it allowed me to kind of grieve myself of, oh, my God, I'm getting older. Oh, my God, the wrinkles are coming. Oh, my God. To where I'm like, fuck it. I'm just gonna embrace it. I can't change it. I can't dye my hair. And so that's what started it, honestly. So then when I turned 40, I didn't have a hard time. I was like, oh, yeah, I can't wait till I'm 40. Now that I'm 45, I'm just loving it. I just can't wait till I'm 50. And a lot of times I talk to 50 and 60 year olds and they're like, sonia, yeah, but you're still young. You have youthful skin still. You don't have saggy hair. You don't have, like, really bad jowls yet or. Or anything like that. And I was like, well, I could have if I was not taking care of my skin. Honestly, people are like, well, you're Latina, you're Mexicana, so you guys have really good skin, which my mom has really good skin. She looks really good for her age. And that's what people say. You look really good for your age, though. Well, I look good for. For what I'm looking at. You know what I mean? But I just think for me, like, I was not afraid to get Old. A lot of people are.
- [24:30]
Jess
But, like, why? Like, like what, why do you feel like you is. You mentioned like 35. You kind of are looking forward to 40. Like what, what about that? Like, what was going on inside?
- [24:41]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. So, like, for me, I think I was loving myself more. And that's what it was. It's the confidence. I tell people you're going to go through a confidence roller coaster. You're always going to have ups and downs. And I think when I had, when I decided, like, I'm just going to transition to gray and everything, it built this confidence of freedom. And so when you are allowed the freedom of expression and a freedom of doing whatever the hell you want, then your confidence gets bigger.
- [25:10]
Jess
And then when other things fell into place.
- [25:12]
Sonia Ramos
Yes. Then everything will go, oh, the styling will go better. You wear different types of makeup. You're really more into self care because you love yourself even more. And you feel seen and you feel heard now. And so that's what that is. And a lot of times when you're in your 40s, you don't feel seen, you don't feel hurt, because I finally put myself first. Because as a mom, you're always putting everybody else before your. Your needs, everybody else. People are like, oh, I just don't have time. There's, there's, there needs to be more hours throughout the day. I'm like, no, you have to really give yourself some time. I had kids when I was a lot younger. I was 15. I was a teen mom. And so now, you know, my kids are older. I get to enjoy my life while I have other friends that their kids are still in elementary and in high school still. I already went through all of that already, you know what I mean? And so this is my time to shine. I'm living my best life. That's all I got to say. And I'm very grateful for when I did decide to post on the Internet that people loved it and then gravitated towards me, and everybody gravitated towards me because of my hair.
- [26:17]
Jen
Well, that was your secret power, you said when you let that happen.
- [26:20]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah.
- [26:21]
Jen
Why did you decide to stop dyeing it?
- [26:23]
Sonia Ramos
Okay, so right here in this little area, it's super, super white. So I literally.
- [26:28]
Jen
Ready your temples. Yeah.
- [26:29]
Sonia Ramos
Yes. I had to dye my hair, no joke. Every three to four days because of it, because it was so bright white. And I have. My natural hair is black. So. Yeah.
- [26:41]
Jess
Couldn't keep chasing that.
- [26:43]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. It was just tiring. I was just tired and I was like, you know what? I Already have short hair. I'm just going to see where it goes.
- [26:49]
Jen
Oh, so your grow out wasn't as bad because there was only, like, short hair.
- [26:53]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, it wasn't as bad because my hair was short, but it was still, like, inside the hair.
- [26:59]
Jen
She's given fingers for that, like, one inch where you look. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:03]
Sonia Ramos
It's like it grows like. Like a little sprout, and it's like. Like. Like a little sprout, and it's not cute. And I told my hairstylist, like, you need to cut my hair off, because I just needed to do something. And she's like, okay. So we waited three months, and then we cut it. I did, like, a really short pixie cut. Wow. And I stayed with that. I've had short hair for the longest time, and then my gray hair. So that's the reason why I just stopped messing with it because. And plus, it doesn't even really die anymore, honestly. And so I just let it grow out. So that created my own beauty standards. And when you create your own beauty standards, then you don't follow the trends on what other people are doing. You just do whatever you got to do and whatever makes you happy. But I think the number one thing for women out there to do is love yourself. Put yourself first and put yourself in a space where you're healthy, because then your kids will see you healthy, and they're going to see the better version of you.
- [28:00]
Jen
Did you have to change your makeup?
- [28:01]
Sonia Ramos
The only thing, honestly, that I needed to change was my eyebrow pencil. Tell us so. Well, I. I didn't have no eyebrows back in the day because I overly plucked them. So I decided that I was gonna go get microbladed eyebrows for some odd reason. So for me, I would do, like, a brown. And since my hair kept getting more, like, silver gray and white, I'm salt and pepper right now. I was like, okay, black is too harsh for me. I can't do, like, a light brown because that's too light. So I'm gonna have to kind of mix it up. So I did kind of, like, a dark brown. Like, I had to use.
- [28:38]
Jen
You didn't do this. You went to an artist and talked with them, and they picked the color. Right. I was like, if you microbladed your own brows, wow, you are more talented than I knew.
- [28:45]
Sonia Ramos
No, no. So when we microbladed my eyebrows, I was like, okay, girl. She's like, do black. We need to do, like, a light. Like, a light ash black and then, like, a dark brown. So she mixed the tones. So I was like, well, whatever, just as long. So when I did my microbladed eyebrow, I'm not even joking, it made me look a little bit more youthful because then they kind of like lifted my face naturally and I didn't have to get up in the morning and do them anymore. It was kind of nice. Now this girls right here is five years in. They have not been filled or retouched since the last time that I did it. Yeah, so she did a really good job.
- [29:30]
Jen
I'm kind of like, is she now. You live in California, right? She in California? Is she in Washington, where you're from?
- [29:37]
Sonia Ramos
No, she's in.
- [29:38]
Jen
You're gonna shout her out. So she's still practicing?
- [29:40]
Sonia Ramos
No, no, she's not doing it because she works out and she's very, very young. And the reason why I know her is because she was my son's friend, but she works out. You know, she did a great job. She's a fitness person. So she does not.
- [29:53]
Jen
Okay. She changed careers.
- [29:54]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, she changed.
- [29:55]
Jen
Oh, so these are one of a kind. You have the custom Sonia Valencia Brown. No one else is getting it.
- [29:59]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, that's it. That's it. And people come for these brows too?
- [30:03]
Jen
Yeah. Do you feel. You do fill them in though, still a little bit, right?
- [30:06]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, I still feel them in because some of it has like, disappeared, like the little tail, certain areas and stuff like that. But it happens.
- [30:15]
Jess
I'm still stuck on the. On the, on the 40s thing. I mean, I think it's because it's the decade I've, like, recently entered. You know, I. I still, I feel like we're. And I've talked about this before, like, we. We are a culture that is very, like, trying to. I think it pretends to kind of be like a little bit more accepting and more like, embrace your age. But I still feel, at least in my world and like, maybe it's because I work in beauty. It is still a very youth centric culture. Would you agree or no?
- [30:42]
Sonia Ramos
It is.
- [30:43]
Jess
That's just kind of a funny spot. I don't know. It's like I feel like I'm not old at all, but I feel like the culture is very like if you're over 31, you're old. It's insane because when I was like 30 or younger, I didn't feel at all like anyone who was like, even 40 was old. I thought old was like 70. I don't know. I think we're living in a very strange time. So anyway, you're saying like, if you want to accept yourself, you kind of have to create your own beauty standard. Like, what are some other words of wisdom for people entering their 40s?
- [31:19]
Sonia Ramos
You're gonna see a lot of change within the face as soon as you turn 40. I'm not joking. When you turn 40 years old, that day you're gonna get that day. Really? That day you turn. You turn 40, you get it. You get some wrinkle.
- [31:31]
Jen
That's your birthday wrinkle.
- [31:32]
Sonia Ramos
That's your birthday wrinkle. Like, happy birthday. Your skin texture is going to change. So here's my tips for you.
- [31:42]
Jess
It does. It gets, like, more uncomfortable and drier.
- [31:45]
Sonia Ramos
Drier. Because we lose a lot of elasticity, firmness. We're starting to use retinol. Retinol dries up the face. It does not matter what your skin type is or anything. And also, you have to change your makeup when you get older. So, like, if you rock the same makeup bag for 20 years, throw it away and get yourself a new makeup bag. Happy birthday. Happy. And your new skincare routine that you're going to need.
- [32:11]
Jess
Treat yourself.
- [32:12]
Sonia Ramos
What would you.
- [32:12]
Jen
What's the skincare routine? Tell us the Sonia way.
- [32:26]
Jess
Yeah, give us the. Okay, give us. Yeah, the start with the skincare and then we're going to do our 40 plus makeup. Okay. I love this.
- [32:33]
Sonia Ramos
So with skincare, the basic needs that you need is a cleanser and a moisturizer for your skin type. Now, if you don't know what your skin type is, wash your face, wait 45 minutes, wash your face with just water, wait 45 minutes, and it's going to tell you. If you look greasy, that means you're oily. If you look greasy all over, that means you're oily. If you're greasy just in the T zone area, you know, in certain parts of your face, that means your combination skin, meaning you're oily to normal to dry skin. Now, if you. If it's tight and you're like, oh, my God, I need to apply moisturizer, then that means you're dry. And so normal skin, kind of. There's really no such thing as normal skin, honestly, because people can be dry to combination with sensitivity. Like, it's just a whole thing. But what you need to know is what your skin type is, the most important thing. And a lot of people think it's retinol and sunscreen, but it really is cleansing the face correctly. You need to cleanse it.
- [33:28]
Jess
This.
- [33:28]
Jen
You are the second person in the last two weeks that has said that.
- [33:31]
Jess
To us that, yes, that's what Lord Gavin said. Lord Gavin from Badr, he was like, cleanse, cleanse, cleanse.
- [33:37]
Sonia Ramos
It's the most important because it's going to start the day, it's going to start the rest of your skincare and it's going to start the foundation of what your makeup is going to look like. All your application. Now, if you're not cleansing the face and half of your makeup is on your face and then you apply skincare, it's just like using a makeup wipe. Makeup wipes don't really do anything. It doesn't really take off your makeup. Just wiping all this makeup all over and every. And just. And then applying your skincare, acting like, oh, my skin is fresh and clean. And then you're wondering why you're breaking out and everything. So that's the most important. Once you get your cleanser and your moisturizer for your face, you want to start out with the vitamin C. Vitamin C is really important because we deal with dull skin and a lot of times you'll start seeing hyperpigmentation, melasma, dark spots, sunspots, all of a sudden.
- [34:28]
Jen
Which one do you use? Do you. Which vitamin C do you like?
- [34:31]
Sonia Ramos
So I like the Dr. Dennis Gross lactic acid. That's one of the best ones. So far. I've reviewed many vitamin Cs. That's the one that I like because it's going to firm, it's going to brighten, and it's actually going to help with hyperpigmentation. Melasma, hyperpigmentation, acne postmarks.
- [34:49]
Jen
That's what you've been using. I didn't even ask about the cleanser. Moisturizer. What do you like? For you?
- [34:53]
Sonia Ramos
For me? Because look, I. If you're going to. You're going to add a retinol to your skincare routine, you need to use a special, like a cleanser with no actives in it. Meaning it doesn't have AHA's BHAs vitamin C. It doesn't have anything. It's clean, no actives. So I like using Shani Darden. It's her cleansing serum. That's one of the best ones. The best.
- [35:15]
Jen
So good.
- [35:16]
Sonia Ramos
I love it. Ever since I used it, it's cleared my hormone hormonal acne. Like I'm telling you what I know moisturizer.
- [35:22]
Jen
What do you like?
- [35:24]
Sonia Ramos
I like the Dermalogica smoothing cream. Or I'll use the Tatcha water cream. Or like in the night, I use Ban cream. I know $13.99. I know, I know, but I love it.
- [35:37]
Jess
I like cheap and cheerful.
- [35:38]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, yeah, I love it. And then sunscreen is most important.
- [35:41]
Jen
Have you been doing sunscreen, though, since you were, like, 20? When did you get on the sunscreen train? Because we didn't know back then.
- [35:47]
Sonia Ramos
I know we didn't. I started using sunscreen when I was 35. It's been a minute, but should we.
- [35:51]
Jen
Move on to makeup?
- [35:52]
Sonia Ramos
Can you imagine if I did?
- [35:53]
Jen
Oh, if you had been using it since you were 20. Wow. Nobody believe you that you're 45. Yeah.
- [35:58]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. But let's do nighttime.
- [36:00]
Jen
Oh, yeah. Sorry, sorry.
- [36:01]
Sonia Ramos
Just double cleanse. Just double. Just double cleanse. At night, use a pre cleanse or a balm to break down your makeup and your spf, because if you're using micellar cleansing water, it really doesn't do the trick. You need a cleansing balm or a cleansing oil. Okay. You. You can use the same cleanser that you want. And at night, it's going to take you two minutes to cleanse your face. Make sure it's squeaky clean. Use a toner. You can use the Essence or whatever.
- [36:24]
Jen
Wait, you literally mean two minutes? You are rubbing your face for 120 seconds. No, that's a long time. That's longer.
- [36:30]
Jess
Brushing your teeth.
- [36:31]
Sonia Ramos
So pre cleanse. Okay. When you do your pre cleanse, I use that for dermalogica. It's an oil. I apply it on my dry skin, and I sit there and I massage it for 45 minutes.
- [36:44]
Jen
No, no, no, no, no. 45 seconds.
- [36:46]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, 45 seconds. My bad, my bad. 45 minutes. Can you imagine? Your skin's going to be so raw.
- [36:52]
Jess
Yeah. 45 seconds. I'm very upset. Okay.
- [36:55]
Jen
Yeah.
- [36:56]
Sonia Ramos
45 seconds. My bad, my bad. And then you're gonna put water on the face, and then you're gonna do it for another 10 seconds, and then rinse it off and then go in with your cleanser. That's gonna do.
- [37:07]
Jen
Okay, I got it. It's up to the two minutes.
- [37:09]
Sonia Ramos
Then you'll wait till it's dry. No, then you can do, like, a toner, wait till it's dry, and then you apply your retinol and then your moisturizer, and that is it. That's your basic skincare routine. That's all you need. And just be consistent. And if you're using a retinol, please apply sunscreen, because it's going to make your skin very sensitive.
- [37:28]
Jen
We will.
- [37:29]
Sonia Ramos
Very sensitive.
- [37:29]
Jess
I mean, I feel like this is all quite manageable.
- [37:32]
Sonia Ramos
Mm. So let's talk about makeup. I think women think that they need a full coverage foundation, which you don't. There's a misconception of if I use full coverage, it's gonna cover everything up, which is not possible because, you know, when you're dealing with dark areas of your face, especially like sun damaged skin, you kind of have to color correct. So color correction is very important for mature ladies. And then an eyebrow pencil or it can be a powder, whatever, your choice.
- [38:01]
Jess
Okay.
- [38:02]
Sonia Ramos
And you need a couple of foundations. You need one that is sheer, light to medium. And if you are going to events, something that's going to hold your together and that is mid to full coverage foundation.
- [38:16]
Jess
Like a long wear.
- [38:17]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, long wear, menopause type of vibe. Because a lot of people don't talk about it. A lot of people I can tell you, like, oh, you can use this. But I'm going through pre menopause and I have sweat sessions in certain times. And so I need my foundation to work with my menopause. They have to be BFFs. If they don't, then I'm not what.
- [38:38]
Jen
Sticks around through the sweat session.
- [38:40]
Sonia Ramos
Actually, it's the kvd, the brand new foundation that she just, they just launched. That one works good because it's good for oily to dry skin. Lancome Tant Idol Classic.
- [38:50]
Jess
That's a great one.
- [38:51]
Sonia Ramos
And the Karen Glow, if you want more of a radiance. And I like makeup by Mario.
- [38:57]
Jen
The new one that just came out.
- [38:58]
Sonia Ramos
It'S kind of like the new one that just came out because you can share it out. You can make it a light coverage or you can make it a medium coverage. And so just by you color correcting and doing and putting concealer in areas where you need it, that's what, that's what's really important. And I like the House labs.
- [39:16]
Jen
Oh, I haven't tried their foundation.
- [39:17]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, House labs is good. I like Dior Skin Forever Glow too, because it's meant for people with dry skin. If you want more of a dewy skin, like, there's really good foundations out there. But when it comes to concealers, you really need one that's creamy, that melts into the skin, that is buttery and it doesn't dry down. And a really good one is Kulfi concealer.
- [39:37]
Jess
I don't know that one.
- [39:38]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, they just launched at Sephora. I got introduced from another Sephora squad member.
- [39:44]
Jen
Okay, so you're into a creamy.
- [39:46]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah, so I like Kulfi, I like Dior skin correct And I like Lancome Taunt.
- [39:51]
Jen
I know Dior Skin Corrects. Yes. That is a creamy kind of formula.
- [39:54]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. I do not like no drugstore concealers because they all.
- [39:59]
Jen
Not even that Maybelline Age Rewind.
- [40:01]
Sonia Ramos
No, no.
- [40:02]
Jen
Oh, I like that one.
- [40:03]
Sonia Ramos
I don't like. I don't like none of them.
- [40:04]
Jess
Why don't you like them? Like, what do they have all in common?
- [40:07]
Sonia Ramos
They don't do what I need them to do. They're not creamy. They're not as creamy as I need it to be. The consistency is like, too thin. Like, it's never the same. Too thin, too thin. It's either too thin, too thick, and it dries down pretty quickly.
- [40:20]
Jen
Oh, you want some play time in there?
- [40:22]
Sonia Ramos
I need some play time. I don't need something to just dry down like Estee Lauder Double Wear. I don't need that in my life. They can go and take it.
- [40:30]
Jen
This is because your technique involves this blending up. So you need to have something that still has the slip so you can blend it up.
- [40:35]
Sonia Ramos
Otherwise, even if you use Mac Fix plus and use that glycerin spray on that face, it's not going to help it because it's just going to make a hot mess. It's going kind of like you're trying to sweep when you just mocked and isn't gonna work. It's true.
- [40:53]
Jen
You're putting it on the. Yeah, I totally makes sense.
- [40:55]
Sonia Ramos
I'm just honest. You know what I mean? I know there's a lot of people that like drugstore products. I love drugstore products from when it comes to makeup and skincare. But there's not a lot. Like, there's a lot of other content creators that are my age that are focused more on drugstore. And I was a broke person. Like, I was always on a budget. You know, I had three kids single. Like, I was on a budget. I had to do what I had to do. But I wasn't using concealer back then. And I think for me, concealer plays a really big part in my makeup routine because I can use it on days where I don't want to wear foundation. You know what I mean? And I can just spot conceal. Especially like, if. If Tom time of the month is there. You know what I mean? I call it Shark Week. Shark Week. I'm just like. That's what I call it.
- [41:43]
Jen
I'm like, just blood in the water.
- [41:44]
Sonia Ramos
Blood in the water. Watch out. Feed me. I'm gonna be hangry. And give me some chocolate.
- [41:49]
Jen
Do you think it Affects your looks. Do you? Or are you just, like, in a mood that week? Or do you think your skin looks.
- [41:54]
Sonia Ramos
Different and you're like, no, girl, my skin looks tired. It looks busted and crusted. It's just not working for me. I have to put a little bit more effort on Shark Week.
- [42:04]
Jen
What else do we do on Shark Week when I'm busted and crusted? Like, should I put some more blush on? I don't know. That's my fix for everything. But that's a boring answer. What's your answer?
- [42:11]
Sonia Ramos
No, no, no. I'm a blushaholic like you. You know what I mean? I be putting blush everywhere. I don't even care. People are like, that's too much blush, girl. I go, I don't care. It makes me happy. Leave me alone. Thank you.
- [42:23]
Jen
All right, good. What else do you do when you want to, like, little a little pick me up to your face?
- [42:28]
Sonia Ramos
I like more of a dewy finish, so I use a lot more, like, of a BB cream or like a skin tint for the face on Shark Week. Honestly, I keep it simple. If I have event here in la, I just add a lot of blush and, like, a winged eyeliner to make me feel better.
- [42:44]
Jess
Blush and a winged eyeliner is, like, the perfect combo. A soft lip.
- [42:48]
Sonia Ramos
It is perfect.
- [42:50]
Jess
Okay. You have a very strong community. Lots of people love you and, you know, leaving lots of comments. Which comments or like, DMs have meant the most to you or just stuck with you?
- [43:02]
Sonia Ramos
You know what I think when people think, oh, you probably have a lot of DMs. A lot of people share their life experience. Experiences. Sure. It's not even, like, about beauty or anything. They're like, it's beyond, like, we love your content, we love what you do, but it's beyond that you show us who you are. And now I get to show the real me because I was afraid that other people wouldn't like me. And that's the biggest compliment.
- [43:27]
Jess
That's really nice.
- [43:28]
Jen
That's rewarding. If someone says they can be more of themselves after watching one of your videos, what a feeling.
- [43:34]
Sonia Ramos
And that's including cussing, too. That's including cussing, girl.
- [43:38]
Jen
I already warned people. In the intro, I was like, we're getting an E on this podcast. It's gonna be explicit, but this is how we talk to each other. We Beaches.
- [43:47]
Sonia Ramos
Yes, we are.
- [43:48]
Jen
I love how when we are. Exactly. Okay, should we do the fat mascara 5 dress? Let's do a quick question round. Questions for you.
- [43:56]
Jess
Lightning round. Okay, which celebrity would you be best friends with?
- [44:01]
Sonia Ramos
Does it have to be a celebrity? Like, can it be?
- [44:04]
Jen
We have to know who they are. Yeah, sure.
- [44:07]
Sonia Ramos
Oh, you know who it is. Makeup by Mario.
- [44:09]
Jen
Oh, that counts. Wait a second. You met him, though?
- [44:12]
Sonia Ramos
I did. And I see. I'm going to tell you something. You're going to see him do my makeup and his TikTok and his IG reel for mature ladies.
- [44:22]
Jess
I love it.
- [44:23]
Sonia Ramos
I just did that on Monday.
- [44:24]
Jess
I love it.
- [44:25]
Jen
I could see you guys. He's such a kind soul. You have a kindness to you. I can tell. I bet you.
- [44:30]
Sonia Ramos
Of course. Very nice, Very humble. Like, he answered a lot of questions. I probably got on his last goddamn nerve. He's probably like, why are you asking me all these questions? But I just wanted to know, honestly. But he was so kind. He was so nice. And this is going to really open the doors for brands to kind of branch out to us mature content creators. You know what I mean? It's just. And I'm going to be the vessel for that. And that was my goal. You know, a lot of times people are like, oh, my goal is to, like, be famous, make some money and do all of that. But my goal was actually just to open the beauty space for over 40 and to get more, you know, for them to invite us to, like, brand trips and, like, get us more pr. Because I told him, I was like, you know what the biggest thing is, is that we get sent pr, but we don't get sent the foundations and the concealers and stuff like that that the younger creators do because they know it doesn't work for our skin. I go, so can you imagine if somebody actually created a foundation for mature ladies that it would work on everybody else, though? But people just don't see it that way. And he's like, that is so crazy.
- [45:33]
Jen
But, oh, like, they don't want their product showcased on someone's skin like yours because it doesn't perform as it should.
- [45:39]
Sonia Ramos
On, because it doesn't like yours. And like you said before, like, when we get older, older skin doesn't sell younger skin cells. And so that's the problem that we have as over 40 content creators is that we're not in the beauty space as much as we should be.
- [45:55]
Jess
I was about. I was just about to say, but we're the ones who were.
- [45:58]
Sonia Ramos
We're the one with the 401K. We're the one with the retirement. We're the one with all the money. We have no money.
- [46:03]
Jen
The kids are out.
- [46:05]
Sonia Ramos
The kids are out of the house. We're done. We have some money to spend.
- [46:10]
Jen
No, I think some people are 40, still have kids in the house. But, yes, we can do that.
- [46:14]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. Let me be fair, then. If I wanted to work with or be around a celebrity, I would actually want to talk to Jlo, because she is a Latina, she's Puerto Rican, and I would just want to ask her about, like, business. Even though I did not like her product, when it came to her skin care, I. I'm like, jlo, I love you and all, girl. I love you. I love your style and everything. But your skincare, though, you could have got better packaging, and you didn't even know really nothing about your skin care. So that's why I didn't buy it. And then when I got it, I didn't like it.
- [46:46]
Jen
You would be real with her just like you are with us.
- [46:48]
Sonia Ramos
No, I will. I think it. Honesty plays a really big part. I think if you're honest, then maybe they can go and be like, oh, you know what? Maybe I'll change it up. Maybe I'll do this. And I would tell her the reasons why I didn't like it.
- [47:00]
Jen
This is the video I want to see.
- [47:02]
Jess
I would. Yeah, I would love to see that. One to one, I would love. She probably knows.
- [47:07]
Sonia Ramos
She's probably like, oh, why is she hating up on me? Or she'd probably be like, but why are you hating a Latina? I go, I'm not. I am rooting for you, but you should have known your products way better. I'm just being honest.
- [47:18]
Jess
No, no, I definitely understand a lot of what you just said. Okay. All right. What is the last song you played on your playlist?
- [47:28]
Sonia Ramos
Bitch better have fun. Money.
- [47:30]
Jen
Yeah. When I saw it at the Super Bowl, I was like, wow, I need to get back into this song. It's such a power song. I love it.
- [47:39]
Sonia Ramos
It's a powerful song. But, yeah, that's the last song.
- [47:42]
Jess
What is your most indulgent snack? Like, your favorite, most indulgent snack?
- [47:48]
Sonia Ramos
Chips.
- [47:49]
Jess
Like, just, like, salted.
- [47:50]
Jen
We need to know which sea salt.
- [47:52]
Jess
Sour cream and onion Cheetos.
- [47:57]
Sonia Ramos
Okay, let's be clear. It depends on the day in the mood. I'm not playing no games. So if I'm feeling spicy, I like Doritos tapatillo with limon. It has to. It has to be like that, or I would do Doritos with bean dip, but the bean dip has to have the jalapeno in it. I'm a spicy type of. I. I love Spice in my life because it matches my sassiness when it comes to, like, just a plain chip. Like ruffles. I like the onion.
- [48:22]
Jess
Like a sour cream and onion. Oh. Like. Oh, just like to put the. In the onion. The onion.
- [48:26]
Sonia Ramos
I like to dip. I'm a dipper. Yeah, I'm a dipper. I'm a dipper. I like lays barbecue chips, and I love salt and vinegar. It doesn't matter what brand.
- [48:35]
Jess
We've named, like, all the flavors. Okay.
- [48:37]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah.
- [48:38]
Jess
Okay.
- [48:38]
Jen
That's.
- [48:38]
Sonia Ramos
Those are my go to. Those are my go to.
- [48:40]
Jen
I'm with you.
- [48:41]
Jess
If you weren't doing this, you would be.
- [48:46]
Sonia Ramos
I would still be working in the cannabis industry, dealing with people.
- [48:50]
Jen
Do you still have. You don't have that job anymore, right?
- [48:52]
Sonia Ramos
No, I don't.
- [48:53]
Jen
It's clear you're a leader. Like, I can see you managing 10 people for sure.
- [48:57]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. So, no, I don't do that no more. I do social media full time now.
- [49:01]
Jess
Cool.
- [49:01]
Jen
Okay.
- [49:02]
Jess
And then finally, in the movie of your life, who would play you?
- [49:07]
Sonia Ramos
My granddaughter, when I get one.
- [49:10]
Jen
You have a grandson.
- [49:11]
Sonia Ramos
I have a grandson, and I'm actually, my. Actually, it's my grandson's birthday today.
- [49:16]
Jess
Happy birthday, Ezra.
- [49:18]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. So he's turning six. And then my oldest son, Julian, is gonna have his son, and his name is Hero. He's gonna be born in about a month or two.
- [49:28]
Jen
Oh, my God. I just feel like I'm watching my best friend. Like, it's so funny. We got on that. We got on with you at the start of the podcast. And Sonya looked at us, everyone, and she was just like, I don't know you from Adam. Like, who are you two ladies, Whatever.
- [49:38]
Sonia Ramos
Don't be like that. I was just looking at you because, you know what I was doing is I was like, do they have makeup on? Oh, no.
- [49:44]
Jen
And I didn't put a good face on. And I was like, oh, my God, it's Sonia and I'm not ready.
- [49:47]
Sonia Ramos
I was, like, looking at your, like, eyewear, like, what? You guys got my glasses on?
- [49:51]
Jen
Because I'm on the computer and I'm 45, so I gotta, like, put the glasses on, you know?
- [49:56]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. So I was just visually looking at you guys. I was.
- [49:59]
Jess
Scarra, a little lipstick.
- [50:00]
Jen
No judgies. No judgies. No judgies.
- [50:02]
Sonia Ramos
Yeah. I don't criticize or judge people.
- [50:05]
Jen
No, I know that. I know that from your content. And I'm so glad, so glad you came on this show and shared your life with us and some of your tips, too. Thank you for coming on Fat Mascara.
- [50:13]
Sonia Ramos
Well, thank you so much for having me.
- [50:17]
Jess
We hope you enjoyed the show.
- [50:19]
Jen
It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better. Head over to itunes to rate and review us or email your thoughts to infoatmascara.com we also want to answer your.
- [50:29]
Jess
Beauty questions and hear what products you love to share a raise, a wand product review, or to ask a beauty question. Email us at infoatmascara.
- [50:37]
Jen
If you send it as a voice memo file, we can even share your voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us a voice message. Our phone number in the United States is 646-481-8182.
- [50:48]
Jess
Thanks so much for listening.