Fat Mascara Episode Summary: "The Benefits of Bathing Culture with Robert Hammond"

In this insightful episode of Fat Mascara, hosts Jennifer Sullivan and Jessica Matlin delve into the intriguing world of bathhouse culture with their guest, Robbie Hammond—president and Chief Strategy Officer of Therma Group US and co-founder of the renowned High Line in New York City. Released on February 28, 2025, this episode explores the multifaceted benefits of bathhouses, their historical significance, and their potential resurgence in American culture.

1. Introduction to Bathhouse Culture

Jennifer Sullivan kicks off the discussion by highlighting a growing interest among listeners about why communal bathhouses aren't more prevalent in post-colonial American society. This curiosity stems from conversations on previous episodes and a variety show hosted by Robbie Hammond. Sullivan introduces Robbie as someone deeply invested in making bathhouse culture a cornerstone of modern well-being.

Jen Sullivan [02:03]: "When I told her about it, we briefly discussed it. Then Garrett, our other contributor, weighed in a week or so later. He loves a bathhouse. And that whole topic brought up some questions..."

2. Robbie Hammond’s Background

Robbie Hammond shares his extensive background, including co-founding the High Line—a transformative public park in NYC that repurposed an elevated rail line into a vibrant urban space. His transition from urban planning to bathhouse culture was inspired by a long-held fascination with ancient Roman baths and a desire to create accessible well-being infrastructure.

Robbie Hammond [11:53]: "The High Line guy. I co-founded the High Line with a partner back in 1999..."

3. Defining Bathhouse Culture

Robbie defines a bathhouse as a "social place", distinct from bathrooms or spas. Unlike spas, which are often solitary and service-oriented, bathhouses emphasize communal experiences involving heat and water, such as saunas, cold plunges, and communal pools.

Robbie Hammond [04:39]: "A bathhouse is about being with other people. It’s a social experience, and it usually involves some kind of heat and water."

4. Historical Context and Evolution

The conversation delves into the historical role of bathhouses in America, particularly their association with the gay community in New York City during the mid-90s. Robbie recounts how bathhouses became pivotal social venues before the AIDS epidemic led to significant stigmatization and closures under policies like those implemented by Giuliani.

Robbie Hammond [06:45]: "When I came out in New York, a bathhouse generally meant... literally part of our culture..."

5. Bathhouses Around the World

Robbie contrasts American bathhouse culture with practices in other countries. He points out that in places like South Korea and Romania, bathhouses remain integral to daily life without the same stigmas. These international counterparts often promote inclusivity, multi-generational use, and seamless integration into urban living.

Robbie Hammond [10:55]: "In South Korea through the 90s and early aughts, they didn’t shut down... They have textile-free bathing for all ages and sexes."

6. Bathhouses in Current American Culture

Robbie discusses the nascent yet booming bathhouse scene in cities like New York, highlighting establishments such as Othership, Wall Street Baz, World Spa, Sojo, QC Therma, and Governor's Highland. These venues cater to diverse needs—from quiet relaxation and family outings to vibrant social gatherings.

Robbie Hammond [29:04]: "It’s like the ice cream museum of bathing... people come for that but stay for something deeper."

7. The Three Pillars of Bathhouse Experience

Central to the episode is Robbie's explanation of the "three stools" of bathing culture: physical, social, and spiritual.

• Physical: Engaging with heat and cold offers scientifically backed health benefits, such as improved cardiovascular health and reduced inflammation.

  Robbie Hammond [31:54]: "One is the physical. You get the benefits... reducing rates of dementia."

• Social: Bathhouses serve as communal hubs where individuals can connect, fostering a sense of community and reducing social anxiety.

  Robbie Hammond [33:16]: "A place where you come into contact with people you don't know without most of the social signifiers."

• Spiritual: Beyond the tangible benefits, bathhouses provide a space for personal reflection and connection with oneself and others.

  Robbie Hammond [33:16]: "The spiritual part connects you with yourself at a deep level, others, and nature."

8. Challenges and Misconceptions in the US

Robbie addresses several hurdles in integrating bathhouse culture into America:

• Cultural Stigma: Historical associations with gay culture and sexuality create misconceptions about the nature of bathhouses.

  Robbie Hammond [07:18]: "They were pretty much gay bathhouses that were basically sex clubs..."

• Nakedness vs. Bathing Suits: Unlike cultures where nudity in communal settings is normalized, Americans often feel uncomfortable, impacting the adoption of bathhouses.

  Robbie Hammond [45:37]: "You have to overcome the idea that they are all about hot 20-year-olds in bathing suits."

• Lack of Multi-Generational Spaces: Current bathhouses often cater to specific demographics, lacking inclusivity for families and different age groups.

  Robbie Hammond [43:49]: "Most bathhouses are single-sex and don’t cater to children."

9. Future Vision for Bathing Culture in America

Robbie envisions bathhouses as essential "well-being infrastructure" within urban environments. By situating these facilities in cities rather than suburbs, they become accessible to a broader population. His work with Therma Group US aims to build expansive, high-quality bathhouses that offer diverse amenities, from saunas and mineral pools to botanical gardens and social lounges.

Robbie Hammond [16:57]: "We want these to be part of cities... accessible with public transportation."

10. Personal Experiences and Insights

Robbie shares personal anecdotes about his journey through various international bathhouses, highlighting what he values most:

• Social Connection: Despite experiencing stunning, individual-focused baths in places like Germany, he finds communal interactions more fulfilling.

  Robbie Hammond [52:35]: "The best bathhouses are the multi-generational where you see the older guy, you see..."

• Inclusivity Issues: He emphasizes the need for greater diversity among bathhouse operators, noting the underrepresentation of Black women despite their significant patronage.

  Robbie Hammond [36:15]: "Black women are one of the biggest users of bathhouses, but a lot of businesses aren't run by them."

• Balancing Modernity and Tradition: Robbie strives to preserve the spiritual essence of bathhouses while adapting them to contemporary American lifestyles.

  Robbie Hammond [31:54]: "Physical, social, and spiritual... to keep the spiritual part inherent."

11. Closing Thoughts

In wrapping up, Robbie underscores the timeless human need for communal spaces that promote health, connection, and personal well-being. He expresses optimism for the growth of bathhouse culture in the U.S., emphasizing its potential to become a beloved and essential part of everyday life.

Robbie Hammond [52:35]: "There’s a whole bunch of recent people coming, but the reasons they stay are deeply rooted in human needs."

Key Takeaways:

• Bathhouses are multifaceted spaces that offer physical health benefits, social connections, and spiritual fulfillment.

• Historical and cultural contexts significantly shape the perception and functionality of bathhouses in different regions.

• American bathhouse culture is in a nascent stage but shows promising growth as cities seek to incorporate well-being infrastructure.

• Challenges such as cultural stigma and lack of inclusivity need to be addressed to democratize bathing culture in the U.S.

• The future of bathhouses in America lies in creating accessible, multi-generational, and socially enriching environments that resonate with contemporary lifestyles.

Robbie Hammond's expertise and vision position him as a pivotal figure in transforming bathhouse culture, advocating for spaces that nurture both individual and community well-being.