← Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
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- [00:01]
Sarah MacLean
So somebody messaged me on threads today, and I thought it would be fun to bring this to the table. Aussie empath messaged me publicly, and she said, is Derek Craven day still a thing? Because, dang, I need a day in solidarity with others to think about his greatness.
- [00:23]
Jennifer Prokop
And I replied, February 4th.
- [00:25]
Sarah MacLean
February, because Derek Craven Day is indeed February 4th. And you. That is our day. Our day of celebration and solidarity. This came because Sanj asked about it.
- [00:38]
Jennifer Prokop
We're still doing collections. And if you are interested, what new one went up this week that Sanj did? We had her on. On a Derek Craven day, right, to talk about the other claypis hero continuum.
- [00:50]
Sarah MacLean
The pantheon of claypas heroes.
- [00:53]
Jennifer Prokop
And it was all about like. Like, characters who wear glasses. And the thing that was really funny is she was doing some. And this is like, you know, I do like seeing this. Like, it was originally a thread where she was kind of like, hey, when you think of glasses and romance, or whatever. And so it was really funny to see, like, what people, you know, kind of, like, wrote about or mentioned or books.
- [01:14]
Sarah MacLean
Would you believe, by the time I got in there, like, 14 hours later, there were 60 people in that. In that thread. Not one mention the outrage of Mr. Craven.
- [01:25]
Jennifer Prokop
I mean, you know, he did it first. He did it best.
- [01:29]
Sarah MacLean
Know your betters, everyone.
- [01:31]
Jennifer Prokop
You guys don't know this, but Derek Craven invented the idea of grinding lenses. I mean.
- [01:39]
Sarah MacLean
Actually, there was. It was sad. There were, like, just another situation where I was a little bummed because there were no references to historicals in there. And there are a number of historicals where someone wears spectacles.
- [01:50]
Jennifer Prokop
I gave my favorite answer, which then, I mean, I'm sure she was already thinking about it. Also made it into the. The thing, which is in Lead, where it's near the end and Lena's gonna give Jimmy a blowjob. And it's like, do you want me to have my glasses on or off? And he's like, on. And she's like. Which is, like, really cute, right? And then she's like. She's like, okay, but don't come on the lenses. Which is just a. What a practical girl.
- [02:19]
Sarah MacLean
Welcome, everyone, to Fated mates. I'm Sarah MacLaine. I read romance novels and I write them.
- [02:25]
Jennifer Prokop
And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor.
- [02:29]
Sarah MacLean
And June is marching. And that means we are just barely, like, two weeks from three weeks maybe, from Fated Mace Live, which is very exciting. There are still tickets available. Novel Neighbor is hosting us. And the perfect, perfect princess Kate Claiborne at Fademates live in St. Louis. You can find information and tickets@fadedmates.net live. Eric did notice this week that while we have talked about Faded Mates Live on every episode, if you go to the Fated Mates website, there is no place to click on and find Fated Mates Live.
- [03:14]
Jennifer Prokop
So we have rectified that that is simply our business.
- [03:19]
Sarah MacLean
So there it is. But you can head to Fatemate.
- [03:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Live.
- [03:23]
Sarah MacLean
Is are very, very fun. We will be there with hundreds of other Faded Mains listeners. They're always goofy and like full of laughs. If you have not been to one and you are in the Midwest and you can make it to join us, we would love to have you again. That's fatedmates.net live and we are having it on July 8th, which is my release day for my new book these Summer Storms, which is a contemporary novel with a that romance running right through it. I think you'll be pretty happy with the way things turn out with that romance. It's about a dysfunctional family on a private island. A billionaire dies.
- [04:05]
Jennifer Prokop
You know, I mean the dream. In the lead up to Storms, we have a couple of episodes including today's that are going to kind of like tee up some of like the themes and ideas in Storms. So today we are going to be talking about dysfunctional families and romance. Next week's episode will actually be the summer preview. Right. So romances that are coming out in July, August and September and that's always a really fun episode for our discoverability buddies. Sorry, I can't say that. And then July, I guess first or second, whatever, the week before Storms comes out, we have a special guest and then we'll have the week that Storms comes out sort of an episode about storms that will be, I promise everyone, spoiler free. Just like where I kind of interview Sarah about like the book, the process. And that's always really fun I think for us to just like. Well, it's fun for me. Sarah, as always doesn't like to talk about her books. I don't know, weird behavior. But if I wrote a book, everybody.
- [05:15]
Sarah MacLean
I barely like to write my books so I don't want to talk about them.
- [05:20]
Jennifer Prokop
So that'll be really fun. And then, you know, we will continue on with like episodes through July. And then, you know, know, kind of as always we'll take a break like a two week break around Labor Day.
- [05:34]
Sarah MacLean
So yeah, early September. We usually take two weeks to just sort of Jen goes back to school. I like just read a bunch of books for fun.
- [05:45]
Jennifer Prokop
All the good stuff. Exactly.
- [05:46]
Sarah MacLean
It's Like, a whole thing. Wait, tell everybody what you're doing.
- [05:49]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't know what I'm doing. What am I doing?
- [05:50]
Sarah MacLean
What you're reading for fun.
- [05:52]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, my God. Sarah. All right, so listen, everyone. It is my first. We are recording this in, like, my first week of, like, summer vacation. And so for an episode, I guess it was the normie plus celebrity episode. I went back and read a Susan Elizabeth Phillips that I. Sometimes it's funny, like, as I'm. Like, I've never read this before, and then as I'm reading, they come back to me. But this one, maybe I did not. It's what I did for love. And it's the one about Georgie, who is a, like, star. She was like a kind of a star on a sitcom in her teens. And Bram, I think, was the hero. And they were, like, together, like, sort of the stars of the show. And then they end up, like, sort of getting drunk in Vegas and married now that they're, like, 30. And they essentially are gonna, like, kind of stay fake married so that people don't, you know, so it doesn't ruin their careers. And I was like, well, this was a nice time. And then the other day, I noticed that most of Susan Elizabeth Phillips backlist is on sale in ebook for, like, $2 a book.
- [06:59]
Sarah MacLean
There you go.
- [07:00]
Jennifer Prokop
And I was like, let me just go ahead and download.
- [07:05]
Sarah MacLean
I'm gonna download every one of them.
- [07:06]
Jennifer Prokop
Every single one of them.
- [07:07]
Sarah MacLean
And is it all with the same narrator?
- [07:10]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm. The ebooks, I don't know if they're all.
- [07:12]
Sarah MacLean
I thought you started audio.
- [07:13]
Jennifer Prokop
They. I mean, I do feel like when the ebooks are on sale, sometimes the audiobooks are on sale. So this is if it's, you know, worth checking out if you're listening. But I. And I've heard that the audio good, but I. I basically am like, okay, you know how if you were a Chicago star, which is the football team in our series, you might have to do, like, 2A days. I am doing 1A days, but that 1A day is one Susan Elizabeth Phillips a day.
- [07:43]
Sarah MacLean
It's a sport of its own.
- [07:44]
Jennifer Prokop
It is. It's a sport of its own. And so I have read, like, I read Natural Born Charmer. I finished today. I read Dream a little Dream. I. I can't remember the other one I read.
- [07:57]
Sarah MacLean
Did you rematch me with Match me if you can?
- [07:59]
Jennifer Prokop
No, it's the other. It was the Molly and Kevin. I read Molly and Kevin, everybody who.
- [08:05]
Sarah MacLean
Can remember character names, titles, you know what? And it doesn't Matter, because Susan Elizabeth Phillips hits it every time. So just whatever you want.
- [08:14]
Jennifer Prokop
Pretty terrific. So, yeah, I'm. Now I'm just kind of like. And you know what else? Some of these books I have definitely never read, and these are books that maybe we've talked about on the podcast, but, like, I've never read. For example, ain't she Sweet?
- [08:29]
Sarah MacLean
Have you done that yet?
- [08:30]
Jennifer Prokop
No, but I bought it. $2.
- [08:33]
Sarah MacLean
I can't wait.
- [08:34]
Jennifer Prokop
$2.
- [08:35]
Sarah MacLean
I can't Wait.
- [08:36]
Jennifer Prokop
So it was great. I've had a nice time. It's been wonderful because it's fun. Yeah. God.
- [08:43]
Sarah MacLean
Listen, if you haven't gone back to your favorite romance novelist and just, like, flat out reread the whole. Every one of them in a while, I highly recommend it as a summer project.
- [08:58]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [08:59]
Sarah MacLean
Like, because there is a reason they're your favorite.
- [09:03]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [09:04]
Sarah MacLean
You're gonna have a great time.
- [09:06]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. It's been really, really wonderful.
- [09:10]
Sarah MacLean
Have you bumped up against a dysfunctional family?
- [09:13]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes, I have.
- [09:14]
Sarah MacLean
Would you like to discuss it and then we'll get into talking about.
- [09:18]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, I actually do want to talk about dysfunctional families, like, as a. As a thought first. Because one of the things that I was really interested in is, like, thinking about is, like, okay, believe it or not, everyone, romance is not real life. I mean, it's my life, but it's not real life. And so I was really curious, like, if you looked up, like, what is a dysfunctional family? You know, like, it, like, what a therapist would say versus what, like, happens in romance. Like, is there a sort of overlap? So I was, like, really sort of curious to kind of think about. To think about that. And so I ended up finding this article. I think it was in, like, Psychology Today. Take that for what it's worth, everybody. The five major types of dysfunctional families.
- [10:08]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, how fun. Let's play that game. Which one is mine?
- [10:13]
Jennifer Prokop
So then I found myself thinking, like, would this be useful to think about? Like, kind of how to sort or talk about the books or whatever, this.
- [10:19]
Sarah MacLean
Will be like rapid fire for me.
- [10:20]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes. Right.
- [10:21]
Sarah MacLean
I'm gonna put my list away, and let's see.
- [10:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, we can do it. One of each. That was the other thing. I was like, I am not gonna do a whole lot of prep. This is gonna be one of those episodes where we're like, let's see what my brain.
- [10:30]
Sarah MacLean
Everybody's like, yeah, it's. It's the beginning of summer, you guys. We know you don't do a lot of prep.
- [10:35]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay? So one of them is the. It's not us. It's them. Family, meaning the family itself has no problems because it projects any and all issues outside of the family unit. Outsiders are the one that are wrong. We're the ones with the problems. We have it all together. No problems.
- [10:54]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, sure. I have one.
- [10:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay, tell me.
- [10:57]
Sarah MacLean
So now we really are. This is rapid fire.
- [10:59]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [10:59]
Sarah MacLean
I had no intention of talking about this book, but how about Nikki Sloan's the Initiation through the Redemption?
- [11:08]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, there you go. Perfect.
- [11:10]
Sarah MacLean
Where, like, the father, McAllister, who is the hero of redemption of the redemption. Listen, these books. God, they're so hot. Redemption is so hot. I'm gonna have to go read it again. Sure.
- [11:26]
Jennifer Prokop
See, this is what's gonna happen.
- [11:28]
Sarah MacLean
Anyway, so here's how this. So these. This is a. Very. Often these families. It's not us. And is that. It's not us, it's them. Families are very wealthy.
- [11:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [11:37]
Sarah MacLean
Here we have an extraordinarily wealthy family. The mother is dead. The father is married to a stepmother. There is a son who is in college.
- [11:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Sure, whatever.
- [11:56]
Sarah MacLean
No, I think he's, like, right out of. It's, like, right out of college.
- [11:59]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't know.
- [12:00]
Sarah MacLean
Honestly, you guys, I wasn't planning on talking about this, so I can't, you know, whatever. It's.
- [12:04]
Jennifer Prokop
Whatever it is.
- [12:06]
Sarah MacLean
But he's going to inherit the, like, billions of this family and the company. And there's like a. There's like a kind of skull and bonesy group of very wealthy men in Boston and who, like, have homes on the Cape. And they all are millionaires, and they're all, like, men in their 40s, 50s, 60s.
- [12:28]
Jennifer Prokop
They're like, like the literal patriarchy. Yeah.
- [12:31]
Sarah MacLean
And so the sun is. But they, like, sit at a big table. They have, like, these glorious parties. And, like, the men have these, like, meetings. At the parties. They all come wearing tuxedos, and their wives come and, like, it's all money sort of dripping all over. And the hero of the first book, who is the son is. He is like my. His girlfriend, the heroine is. Has to go to this party for the first time. Like, they're getting married. And when they get to this party, he's like, okay, now you come into this meeting with me. And she goes into the meeting only to discover that this meeting is like, Eyes Wide Shut shit.
- [13:17]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [13:17]
Sarah MacLean
And, like, basically they want to strip her naked, lay her down on the conference table, and everybody gets to go at her. And his dad is the chairman of the board, and so he gets to go last and, like, be the one who they all get to like fuck her but they can't come in her because rules. And then he's the dad is like, but I'm the chairman of the board and it's so wrong and so fun to read. And like the son hates the dad but like they have to put on this like very good face. And then this goes on for like two books where the father is like obsessed with the son's girlfriend slash fiance slash about to be wife. And then the third book is called the Redemption and the hero is the dad and he has like obviously left his like terrible. Listen Nikki, this is just all crazy. The stepmother is wacky and like tries to kill someone and so now the father is, has been to prison I think and now is back and like he's ready to redeem himself and he redeems himself by like, I don't know, like just fucking this heroin like all over the place, including on his boat and like learning to love again. It's all crazy but very fun. So enjoy yourselves. What about you, Jen? Do you have one? Headphones in everyone.
- [14:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Too late, Sarah. This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Amy James, author of Crash Test.
- [15:07]
Sarah MacLean
Formula one driver Travis Keeping is halfway through the best racing season of his career. The championship is within his sights and everything is going perfectly until there is a massive crash in Formula 2. And that crash leads driver Jacob Nichols in critical condition, then flips Travis's world upside down because nobody knows that he and Jacob have been dating for almost a year. So now Jacob, the only man Travis has ever loved, is clinging to life. His Formula one team cannot understand why his performance is faltering because Jacob is in, you know, chaos and Travis is locked in a cold war with Jacob's parents who want him as father, far away from his son, their son as possible. Travis is sure everything will just will get better if Jacob wakes up and just like gets out from under his parents influence and they can move on. But the F1 season barrels on. Travis and Jacob are stuck alone and miserable on opposite ends of the globe. And though they find new friends, they these drivers are going to be pushed outside of their comfort zones and have to figure out their journey of self discovery and how it brings them back to each other.
- [16:22]
Jennifer Prokop
So yeah, this is. Listen, F1 is so hot right now and this might be the book for you, especially all this angsty, delicious drama. So if you would like to check out Crash Test, it is available in audio, paper and ebook and if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Amy James for sponsoring this week's episode. I was thinking that maybe the Green sisters from Joanna Shoup's Uptown Girls series.
- [16:58]
Sarah MacLean
That's a good one.
- [16:59]
Jennifer Prokop
Might qualify there, right? Because it's, like, one of the things that's, like, really persistent for each of the sisters as they, like, kind of have their own story, is that, like, the parents are literally, like, why are you acting like this? Like, we are perfect and awesome and. Right. So I was kind of thinking that, like, that whole vibe. And then, of course, like, that's the very thing that they are. Are rebelling against as well. Right. You know, that if they would. And I think if the girls would only sort of, like, be good and do the right thing and marry who their parents want them to marry. I mean, this is especially, I would say, like, in Mamie's story, right? Like, they have someone picked out for her, and it turns out that he's terrible. And so I guess I would say I was sort of thinking, like. But, like, like you, I was sort of like these, like, kind of wealthy, moneyed society families, right? Like, we can't ever admit that anything is wrong. I was.
- [18:04]
Sarah MacLean
Reputation.
- [18:05]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, Right. Anytime somebody's like, but I'm a duke, right?
- [18:11]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [18:11]
Jennifer Prokop
I mean, even, like, the Louisa Darling series, I thought, right. Like, he essentially throws them out. Like, what his. In book one, the stepmother, essentially, the father dies, right? So the new Duke. And it turns out that the old duke had married, like, his first wife had died. He had a young son, and he married the nanny, you know, the governess. And so once that guy dies, right. The son, who's now, you know, in his 20s or whatever, kicks them all out. He's basically like, I have our. I have to rebuild our reputation. Okay, number two. Okay, ready is the. What will the neighbors think Family. These are families who are so worried about what others think that it completely consumes how they act and present themselves. Even in times of stress or grief. Makeup is applied perfectly, closed press, giving the impression that we have it together.
- [19:09]
Sarah MacLean
Ah. So the storms. But we won't talk about storms. But that feels like maybe not you. I don't know.
- [19:19]
Jennifer Prokop
There's a next one, too, that I think. Yeah. But for sure, I think, yeah, this is part of it. Yeah.
- [19:24]
Sarah MacLean
Okay, I've got one. This is my favorite kind of episode.
- [19:29]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, y' all.
- [19:29]
Sarah MacLean
If you like this kind, like, if you have something that, like, you want.
- [19:33]
Jennifer Prokop
Us, throw it up.
- [19:35]
Sarah MacLean
If you have a list, like this.
- [19:37]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [19:37]
Sarah MacLean
And you just want us to name romance novels that are relevant to it. This is my favorite.
- [19:42]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [19:42]
Sarah MacLean
Okay. How about Tracy Livesey's American Royalty for this?
- [19:46]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes. This was literally on my list, too, for this one.
- [19:49]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [19:50]
Jennifer Prokop
It's perfect, right?
- [19:51]
Sarah MacLean
It's perfect. So Duchess, who is an American rapper, is hired to go and do, like, a jubilee concert in England for the Queen of England. And it's, like, an anniversary of her being. I don't know. It's either a birthday. It doesn't matter. It's jubilee, maybe, I think. Anyway, so Duchess gets hired. She goes there to do it, only to discover that, like, the. The royals, like, favorite sort of most practical royal, like, Prince. Prince, who is also an academic and, like, doesn't like the limelight and prefers to stay out of. Stay out of everything. He has been given the responsibility of throwing this, like, big event, and he has to work with Duchess, this American rapper who has, like, decided to do this because she's trying to launch a business. Like, she has, like, plans for her life that are beyond performance. And these two just, like, instantly are so hot for each other. Like, she's. For romance reasons.
- [20:58]
Jennifer Prokop
She live.
- [20:59]
Sarah MacLean
She's living in his house with perfect. No notes. Anyway, so. But of course, the royal family is, like, falling apart. There's, like, a drunken uncle, and everybody hates each other. It's like a real royals situation. But you would never know it from, like, the outside. It's all happening on the inside. Propriety is everything. And the idea that their, like, favored son would end up with an American rapper is, I mean, unconscionable.
- [21:33]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, and a black woman. Not just. Right. Like.
- [21:36]
Sarah MacLean
And a black woman so terrific. Exactly. That.
- [21:41]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Now, it was funny because this. It was what was interesting as I was looking at these five, and I don't think they. I think these are, like. Like I said, there's, like, real life problems. This is one where I was like, a lot of women, in particular in romance, I think, get sort of kind of, right. Like, you're. You're a rule breaker. You're the black sheep. You're the whatever. And therefore, Right. It's a problem. But the one I also thought of here was. And I also think it's worth saying, like, I feel like recency bias comes into this a lot, right? Because this kind of plot, I think you can kind of name a lot of things. You're like, what did I just read? And you know what I was thinking of?
- [22:20]
Sarah MacLean
This is also any book that pays off somebody to leave the family.
- [22:24]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, absolutely. Right. Like exactly. Like you kind of, you can think of like specific ones and then you're like, oh, that's the blueprint for me. I was thinking about the newest Alexa Starria. Right. Is Along Came Amor. And in this one, Ava has recently been divorced. And it's really interesting because we see the divorce actually happened, I think in the previous book. And she's hiding it because. And it takes kind of a while in this book for you to figure out like what exactly is going on. And so one of the things that happens is like she can't admit that she like really can't pay the rent on their two bedroom apartment without her ex husband's like money. Right. And so the prima's have to like come and help her and like, you know, find a new, like find a new apartment that she can afford on her own. And the inciting kind of incident of this book, the way it starts is essentially that like the divorce is finalized. Right. Like, so she signed the paperwork and it's finalized. And when she starts dating Roman, who is like a very. Not only like this beautiful man, he is a man who is a, like a millionaire. He owns this hotel chain. Anyone would be happy, like any parent, right. Would be happy to have this man walk in the door with your daughter.
- [23:57]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [23:57]
Jennifer Prokop
But because she is so gunshot. From how they treated her after the divorce, she's basically like, I am never going to let them know who I'm dating again. Like I'm, I'm not gonna do that to myself again. Because what if it doesn't work out and the story and the narrative is then just amplified that like she's no good. You know what I mean? She's no good. She's a troublemaker, like, whatever. And so, and of course Roman is like, wait, I'm, I'm the secret, right? And it's terrific. But I really did find, I think it could be very difficult to let. There's like a. I really admired her, Alexis's work with Ava in this book because I think it can be very hard to let a woman be really vulnerable about a failed relationship, even in romance. And I think her struggle with this and you know, then at the end, at the end of the day, at the end of the book, she has to be able to tell her family members, like, cut the, knock it off. Right? Knock that shit, knock it off. And anyway, so I thought that would be like a really good example because it's what she feels or has been made to feel is that somehow she's like, brought shame on the family. And there's a lot of ways that, like, this plays into kind of her own, like the way she was raised. And, you know, there's a bunch going on, but I thought it was really good for that. So, yeah, that's. What will the neighbors think? Okay, this is the one that I thought would be like, Alice, which is the identified patient family. These families owe all of their struggles and problems to one member of the family.
- [25:46]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, that's Alice.
- [25:48]
Jennifer Prokop
There's always one who is to blame. Right, Right.
- [25:55]
Sarah MacLean
It's possible the storms are all of these in some way. I mean, it's funny because today I was talking to Louisa about this episode and I was like, oh, I'm recording with Jen tonight. Like, we're, you know, we're doing dysfunctional families. And she said in romance. And I said, yeah. And she said, aren't they all? And a lot of them are.
- [26:17]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. I don't. Maybe we can like do this one and then like talk a little bit about this and then go through the next two. But I'm gonna talk about a book that I think does this incredibly well. It's One and only by Jenny Holiday. And what it is, is, is Cameron is the hero and he. It's his older brother's wedding and Jane is the heroine and she's like essentially like the maid of honor or whatever. And she essentially is Taske bride with like. Like, Cameron's gonna fuck everything up. So you have to go and like, take care of it so that he doesn't fuck everything up. Like, it's your job to essentially like babysit him. And she is like, what are you talking about? This guy is great, right? And so I think one of the things that's like, I really liked about this, talking about this one here is I feel like part of it is like the distance, right? Like, he, I think, went away to the army or something. And so he hasn't lived at home for a long time. The older brother is just like super successful. It has a lot to do with, like, how they were raised and their mom and all this stuff and kind of their hometown. And, you know, he was just like this kind of wild child. And now he's never been able to like, let go of that reputation. And it's very poignant. It's very deeply emotional. And I think part of it is Jane sort of seeing Jane be like, okay, it's my job to like, task this wild one. And then being like, wait, what is going on? And then kind of Trying to figure out like am I gonna like go toe to toe with the bride and groom over how shitty they are to her like to like this guy I just met. It's great. It was really great. So it's the one and only by Jenny Holliday.
- [28:14]
Sarah MacLean
All right. For this one I feel like I would. I feel like the Billionaire's Bargain by Naima Simone is a good pick because the problem person is the, the their daughter in law who is so. Okay, the premise here, we did a deep dive of these but in like season two or three and this is like there's a blackout and there's this fancy party and like Naim has all these couples like basically like like during the blackout.
- [28:45]
Jennifer Prokop
It's great. I mean it's a blackout. Sarah.
- [28:47]
Sarah MacLean
They're all billionaires. It's fine. So the, the, this guy, they are this. The blackout hits and then like he, you know, they have, there's like a kiss with like, you know, some secret. A sort of like you know, a woman who is a caterer. She's like dressed in a catering outfit and they, and so they like well no, she's not dressed in a catering out but she's actually catering this. But he like makes out with her, the lights come on and oh my God, it's the widow of his best friend.
- [29:22]
Jennifer Prokop
I love romance so much.
- [29:25]
Sarah MacLean
Okay, but like the perception is that this woman has like squandered his like his best friend's money. Like they have, they have a son and she's like moved out of his best friend's like family home and like she's raising her son like you know, like an apartment in a not great area of Chicago. And like refute like seems to like not be willing to spend any money on, on his best friend's son. And like what's wrong with this? Like what's happening? And so he decides that he is going to like protect his best friend's like legacy while like and Mary and he basically like offers her marriage. A marriage of convenience. Of course what it turns out is that like the, the best friend's parents have like treated her terribly. They are like trying to get custody of her son. They have like essentially blamed her for everything that's ever gone wrong in their life. And, and now you know, she, and he has always. The hero of this book has always believed them because he was had a relationship with these parents and like they all came from this rarefied heir community. And so while he doesn't believe that they should take the child away from her he does believe that, like, she obviously needs him to take care of her. And she's like, fuck you. Like, I'm doing fine and I don't want anything to do with you people.
- [30:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, this is a great one. I. We. I mentioned lead at the beginning of the episode about glasses, but, like, Jimmy, this classic Jimmy Ferris, right, like, there. And it turns out, like, one of the things that I thought was really great about lead is it's the third book of the Stage Dive series, and Jimmy's brother is. David is the hero of the first book. Right? And so what happens is in lead, you kind of find out, like, why Jimmy was using drugs. Like, his mom was an addict. And so he kind of is like a fuck you. He was like, the first pills I ever took, I stole from her. And so the thing though that's, like, really interesting is she's constantly going after Jimmy and it's really painful for him. And it's Lena who at some point says to David, like, you need to be on your brother's side. Like, why would you. Right? Like, and it's because Jimmy sort of hid the ways that he was, like, kind of taking the hits, right? Like, he was kind of like, if I am the one who stands up in front of my mother and, you know, takes these hits and becomes like, the whipping boy of the family, then David will be protected. Right. In some kind of way. And so I think that there's a way in which when it's well done, it becomes, like, a heroic part of their. Their journey as well. Right. That they have to sort of, like, stop believing that about themselves.
- [32:27]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, well, I mean, I didn't want to. The sort of first book that immediately came to mind, and I was like, I cannot talk about that book again, but I will just name it is Angelina M. Lopez's After Hours on Milagros street.
- [32:40]
Jennifer Prokop
Right?
- [32:40]
Sarah MacLean
Where, like, she is the problem child so much that, like, she went away and now she's back in disgrace. And, like, her arc is to realize, like, in fact, like, your family does care about, like, does, like, does care about you? Is you are like, did they make you the problem child or have you made yourself the problem child?
- [33:01]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes. Right, right.
- [33:02]
Sarah MacLean
And that's a really interesting arc, but I didn't want to talk too much about it because I've talked about that book a lot. This week's episode of Fate of Mates is sponsored by Underlined a YA community for book lovers where young people can find their next book. Obsession with quizzes, reading lists, book trailers and More so we have talked at.
- [33:25]
Jennifer Prokop
Length about how hard discoverability is for anybody right now. And that can be especially true if you are a YA reader or have a YA reader in your life. Right. So trying to find stuff that is designed for like a young adult who is looking for books is. Can be a really tough thing. And gut Underlined is one of the best. Listen, I'm a middle school teacher, so you can take this to the bank. One of the best well designed sites I've seen. I've shown this site to kids once I found out about it. Because what they have is when you go to getunderline.com is they have information about all of the books that are part of Random House children's books, YA imprints. There is a real focus on thriller, fantasy, and then there's even a specific love underlined section that covers all of YA romance. When you go to the main page, there's like lots of different ways to dive into it, which I think is really important. Right. It's not just like one pathway, so you can just start browsing. But then they have sections that are like new releases or reading lists. And then if you keep scrolling, there's really cool, like articles or quizzes. For example, which YA romance should you read for Pride Month? You can do giveaways. So there are forms that they might have for books that they're highlighting and giving away. There is a promo trailer for We Were Liars, which is a really terrific YA book by E. Lockhart that is being made into a TV show on Prime Video. And so this just has kind of everything in one place so they can learn about authors, learn about books, learn about genres, learn about events, merch, newsletters, you name it. So if you are kind of like, how do I keep my kid reading this summer? Or how do I find books, books for the readers in my life, then getunderlined.com is the place for you.
- [35:17]
Sarah MacLean
If you have a young reader in your life and you want to check out Get Underlined with them, you can go to getunderlined.com podcast and learn more. That's where you'll find all of the lists Jen talked about the quizzes, et cetera. Again, it's getunderlined.com podcast. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to Get Underlined. Thanks to Underline for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [35:47]
Jennifer Prokop
I feel like this comes up a lot in historicals, especially if you're not the heir. Right. For like, men.
- [35:56]
Sarah MacLean
Sure.
- [35:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. Like you're just.
- [35:58]
Sarah MacLean
It's time for you to get it together.
- [36:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Like, you're some sort of wastrel or whatever, and then you're gonna have to figure it out. So. Yeah, I. I have a lot of. This is, like, a character I often really like in a. In a romance.
- [36:14]
Sarah MacLean
The Roth brothers.
- [36:15]
Jennifer Prokop
I was gonna. I was totally. When you were like, let me think. I wanted to be Conrad. Conrad Roth.
- [36:20]
Sarah MacLean
Conrad Roth. Oh, Conrad, my sweet baby boy.
- [36:25]
Jennifer Prokop
You know what else is.
- [36:25]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, my God. What a misplaced. What?
- [36:27]
Jennifer Prokop
I know.
- [36:28]
Sarah MacLean
Everybody just. I'm gonna leave right now and read Dark Desires After Dusk. No. Dark Needs at Night's Edge. See, I don't even know what the titles are.
- [36:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Doesn't matter.
- [36:37]
Sarah MacLean
It's Dark Needs at Night's Edge. That's that book. And. Oh, my sweet baby Conrad.
- [36:42]
Jennifer Prokop
I know. I know.
- [36:43]
Sarah MacLean
The greatest book about addiction. The greatest book about having to get clean and, like, also clean up your act to be worthy of love emotionally and physically and stop killing people for it.
- [36:55]
Jennifer Prokop
You know what else I thought? And maybe this isn't the right place for this one. Maybe it's like one of the other ones is that, you know, the Heather Guare book.
- [37:06]
Sarah MacLean
Preferential treatment.
- [37:07]
Jennifer Prokop
Preferential treatment where she, like, leaves her younger sister in the, like, abusive household.
- [37:14]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [37:15]
Jennifer Prokop
And then, like, because she left, her mom was constantly like, you know, your sister was the bad one. Right. Like, the narrative of their kind of adulthood. And then when she doesn't, like, pitch in with her sister's kids or doesn't fix things, it just sort of like, re. You know, it's a little different because it's just. I think it has, like, a different profile. But that, to me, when a character leaves home. Right. Because it's so abusive and so terrible. And then the other siblings at some point are like, how did you leave me? I feel like that's like, a really.
- [37:54]
Sarah MacLean
Like, Day of the Duchess.
- [37:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Right. Like, just. What about us? Like, you left us here to. The mess. Was still here. You just weren't. Right. And I feel like that is always a really difficult. Even though it's not exactly what was described here. Like, you've isolated yourself from the family unit in some kind of way, and then it's so. Yeah.
- [38:18]
Sarah MacLean
You become the outcast. You outcast yourself.
- [38:20]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Okay. Do you want to talk? There's two more. Or do you want to.
- [38:26]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, let's keep doing it, and then we'll talk about it at the end. We're going to reverse the.
- [38:29]
Jennifer Prokop
We're reversing whole order structure. All right. The Ferris Wheel family. This family is unreliable and inconsistent because it's all ups and downs and unpredictability.
- [38:42]
Sarah MacLean
I feel like this is a lot of, like, chaos. Historicals, like, there. This is very common in. In historicals. But you know what's interesting about. As I say that, and as the words were coming out of my mouth, I was like, I don't know if this is. This is a rare one in this particular function, is rare in romance, because if the family is ever really around, they often do sort of come back together.
- [39:09]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Yeah.
- [39:10]
Sarah MacLean
So I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about historicals. I need to think. You have one.
- [39:15]
Jennifer Prokop
You know, I have. I was. I. You know, what I was thinking about is I found myself then thinking not about, like, dysfunctional family, like your actual family, but, like, the Mafia family. Right. Because I was sort of like, what would it look like if.
- [39:35]
Sarah MacLean
What did you say? You can't rely on your family? Is that what it is? The language that they used, It's.
- [39:41]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. This family is unreliable and inconsistent. There's lots of trauma resulting in ups and downs and unpredictability. Yeah. So the two books I was. There's this interesting pair of books in this perfectly imperfect series by Neva Altej, and the two that I are. It's the last.
- [40:05]
Sarah MacLean
You really like that series?
- [40:06]
Jennifer Prokop
I do like that series. And in this particular one, though, I haven't read it, so I don't know. It's book number nine. It's called Darkest Sins. And book number 10 is called Sweet Prison, and it's Two Sisters. Right. So Neera is the heroine of number nine, and her sister Zahara is the one in 10. And the reason. And, like, a lot of their story, like, kind of plays out over books, but basically, their stepbrother, when they're little, gets. Kills somebody, like, at a family party and ends up in jail. And then their father is sort of the head of the Boston Mafia or whatever, and he is, like, kind of trying to, you know, tell Neera she's gonna have to marry somebody terrible. And she essentially agrees to it. But in the course of reading the two books, you understand that the brother who's been put in prison is actually the one calling all the shots, but nobody knows it. And so he sort of, like, forces Neera. He kind of makes this deal with her. Like, if you agree to marry this guy when I get out, like, don't worry, I'll take care of it. But I need you to kind of hold the family together, because the father is killed. And so there's. And then like, she has, like this man in her life and she gives birth to a baby and no one knows who the father is. I mean, like, it's just like lots and lots and lots of like Mafia family drama. And I feel like one of the things I liked about it was if you don't read nine, a lot of the events of ten don't make sense. Like, it's like really layered, where you think you know what's going on in nine, and then you get a whole different look in 10. And I did feel like that was sort of. I don't know, like, I kind of was thinking about, like, okay, this is a family that really has had some ups and downs. And then of course, in 10, Massimo, whose brother gets out and it turns out he's in love with Zahara. Like, kind of through these letters they've been writing back and forth to each other. It's super over the top, but I was like, maybe it's like Mafia family drama. But. Yeah, I think it's hard upside down.
- [42:12]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, I could see that. There's that series that launched Take the Finger, Annika Martin's. Oh, yeah, Dark Mafia. Is it Dark Mafia Prince. Is that right?
- [42:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes, something like that. Yeah.
- [42:24]
Sarah MacLean
Okay, we'll. We'll get it right. We'll put it in the show notes. Everybody but that series. So if we're going to stick with these, kind of like, yeah, that series works because there is a. The brother who almost takes the finger in the first book. So, you know, this is a. My. Like, it's a revenge plot. Like, they want to take revenge on. Their parents were killed by her father and therefore they're. Now that they're all grown up. The boys were separated and, like, sent to the four winds. And now they're all. Now two of them are together and they're searching for the third, who, by the way, everybody has been raised feral in the wilderness by wolves.
- [43:02]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm not even romance perfect.
- [43:04]
Sarah MacLean
Don't even come for me anyway. But in the first one. So like, they've just like found each other, the two brothers. Or like, they're recent. They're sort of recently reconciled. And it's like a real tenuous truth, Bruce between them. And then they kidnap this girl, like, basically intending to, like, sacrifice her or at least like may use her to get the. Her dad to like, come and let them kill him, essentially. And when the dad doesn't immediately turn, they're like the. But the girl and the hero, the heroine and the hero. The daughter and the hero have, like, when they were children, they knew each other, and they very quickly, like, he softens to her. And the brother is like, hey, fuck wit. Like, we have a plan. I don't care about you feeling soft. And then he goes to Staples and gets a paper cutter and comes back and, like, he's gonna paper cut her finger off. And the hero doesn't allow it, but, like, it's that kind of thing that sort of, like, we have a plan. You're not sticking to it, and. And you're ruining everything because of it. And I don't give a shit about your feelings.
- [44:20]
Jennifer Prokop
So one that I. So a Susan Elizabeth Phillips that I think works here is Natural Born Charmer, which is about Dean Robillard. And part of the reason it works is that the. The Ferris wheel part of it was during his childhood. So his mom was a groupie. And his father is essentially, like. His name's Jack Patriot. He's like this, like, susan, I love you. So April is his mom's name. And he basically is like. You know, he remembers she was an addict through a lot of his childhood, but because his father was a rich, essentially rock star, he was able to have, like, money and, like, at some point got sent to boarding school and you know what I mean? But, like, his entire childhood was his absentee father. He didn't even. It's really great. For most of his childhood, he thought Bruce Springsteen was his father, but it turns out it was Jack Patriot.
- [45:20]
Sarah MacLean
This is the crazy thing. Like, I'm sorry, but no one in contemporary right now is writing like this. Like, you would never be. Like, I thought Hosier was my father.
- [45:30]
Jennifer Prokop
But it turned out that sued.
- [45:32]
Sarah MacLean
Like, it's amazing.
- [45:34]
Jennifer Prokop
No, it is amazing.
- [45:35]
Sarah MacLean
Bruce Springsteen has that on the wall next to his platinum record.
- [45:38]
Jennifer Prokop
Like, just. Also, I was almost right. So Dean is the quarterback of the Chicago Stars, and he has. He's picked up Blue Bailey, and she has her own problems, which are. Her mother is essentially like a Mother Teresa, like, figure who is out, like, saving people around the world, right? Like, from. And has essentially emptied all of Blue's bank accounts to give to, like, sort of free these girls from, like, a jail somewhere or whatever. And it's. What happens is, like, Dean's just like, I need to be entertained. And Blue, I swear to God, is walking down the road in a beaver costume, and he's like, this seems entertaining. I'm gonna pick up this woman. Their banter is unparalleled, right? And they drive to Nashville where He has a home. And he's like, the woman who's like kind of running the renovation, isn't answering my email, you know, my phone calls and I need to go see what's going on. And she's like, well, I'll go with you. I'm a fly by night. Like, you know, I love to travel. So it turns out that the woman who has been renovating his home is not Susan o' Hara, but his mother. And she's kind of like. She's been clean for 10 years, but she really views this as like her one opportunity to like make a home for her son. So, like kind of she found out through the grapevine the people like, that he bought this house. And she's like, I'm essentially like, take some time off of my job, go to Nashville, like outside of eastern Tennessee, and I'm gonna, you know, get this job. Then it turns out that Dean has like a half sister. Jack has at some point married later and has this 11 year old daughter, Riley, who has. Her mother has died. And Jack is about to do the same exact thing to her that he did to Dean, which is just like pay a lot of money to not pay attention to her. And she like, in a harrowing chapter, gets herself to eastern Tennessee with like a teenage driver. And then all of a sudden you've got the. And you know, April calls and is like, jack, you gotta send somebody to get her. And. And Jack himself comes. And now the whole Robillard family is together in a farmhouse without doors. Literally with no doors. This is a perfect metaphor for the family itself. And it is, honestly, it's like, what a romance. But the whole family is like. The whole thing is Dean trying to learn to forgive his parents for being young and stupid and. Right. Having more money than sense in Jack's case. And. Right. This like, sort of love for rock and roll and like kind of how it felt for April. And it is horrific. But yeah, like, but I think the reason it works is because this is pain that is in his past. Right. His mother is not currently battling addiction. She's been clean for 10 years. Right. And so I think. But you know, Riley, the. This child in the mix is just heartbreaking. Like just a heartbreaking character. And all she wants is for someone to love her. And of course Dean is like, I wanted the same thing, but I don't know if I'm the person to do that now. It's awesome. So, yeah, that's my Ferris wheel family. The Robillards, from. From Natural Born Charmer.
- [49:08]
Sarah MacLean
This. This week's episode of Fate of Mates is sponsored by Kristen Jennings, author of Lessons from a Tour Guide.
- [49:14]
Jennifer Prokop
Hannah Poole has a great idea to start her own travel agency in which she will give, you know, like personal tours in amazing cities like Paris. And one of her first clients is an a septuagenarian named Hazel. And what Hazel wants to do is go to Paris and take her friends and have a grand old time. And Hannah is like, this is the perfect setup for me because if I do a great job on this, the word of mouth and will that it'll get my. My new business off to a great start. Along comes Noah Eversham. Hazel is his grandmother and he is pretty concerned that Hannah might actually be trying to take advantage of her. Or this could be a situation that would be ripe for her to like, you know, sort of be a little sneaky and be after grandma's money. And he just is very suspicious, this Noah. And so he decides to force his way onto the trip in order to, like, make sure everything on the up and up. Well, Hannah is not going to let her guard, like, let guarded and suspicious Noah and his annoyingly handsome face distract her. She has a job to do and she is going to do it. And he can scowl at her all he likes. But once grandmother Hazel and all of her friends notice this tension between Hannah and Noah, they get the completely wrong idea that romance might be the case rather than enmity. And they decided to start doing some matchmaking throughout the city of Sounds like.
- [50:44]
Sarah MacLean
It'S the right idea if you ask me. If you also think it's the right idea, then you can read Lessons from a Tour Guide right now in print, ebook or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks so much to Kristen Jennings for sponsoring this week's episode and congratulations on your debut. I want to come back to this Ferris wheel thing because maybe we'll come back to it later because I do think that there, there is a version of Ferris wheel that exists very much in romance. And so, yeah, let's return to put a pin in it. And I want to come back to the Ferris wheel.
- [51:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, because I think there are romance, a kind of dysfunctional romance, family that is not represented in these five things.
- [51:30]
Sarah MacLean
Lovable and charming.
- [51:31]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Okay, so then there's the just trying to survive family, right?
- [51:36]
Sarah MacLean
Oh boy.
- [51:37]
Jennifer Prokop
These are families who are just trying to make it through dealing with, with impossible situations, violence, poverty, Whatever. But. Right. Just like everything.
- [51:48]
Sarah MacLean
These are our brothers. The brothers, the mackenzies.
- [51:54]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [51:54]
Sarah MacLean
Jennifer Ashley's. The mackenzies.
- [51:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes. Like.
- [51:58]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, I mean I would say you could, you could throw a stone in historical and hit one of these like.
- [52:05]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [52:06]
Sarah MacLean
Families of brothers. Maybe there's like one precious, his sister.
- [52:10]
Jennifer Prokop
You know what I was thinking? The sins, right. Like Dixon, they all have to go to water Lucera.
- [52:17]
Sarah MacLean
And they all have trauma because they all hate their dad. Like it's just.
- [52:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [52:21]
Sarah MacLean
The, the, like the, the dad. The Every romance hero ever who has daddy issues. This is the family they come from.
- [52:30]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. And I think often these families are just like they're all their own little silo because they don't know how to help or support or be with each other. Right. Or one of. I was thinking again about Susan Elizabeth Phillips and another one of their books I read this week was Dream a Little Dream. And this is the one where Gabe. Gabe's wife and 5 year old son died in a car accident at some point earlier.
- [52:57]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [52:58]
Jennifer Prokop
And he is, he's just tortured. He's tortured and his brothers love him, but they don't know how to help him.
- [53:09]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [53:09]
Jennifer Prokop
And along comes Rachel with her own 5 year old who has been. Her, her husband was like a preacher who stole money from his congregation and then died in like a plane crash or something. And so she's come back because she's sort of convinced that he has hidden something somewhere that she can use to essentially like ensure that her son will have like a future. Like money.
- [53:35]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [53:36]
Jennifer Prokop
And it is, it's terrible. Like Gabe is just heartbroken and his brothers are kind of, you know, and he's like opening this like drive through and he hates it. And the brothers are like, it looks so great. And she's like, what's wrong with you? He hates this. Why aren't you telling him to go back and be a veterinarian? This is what he loves. Right.
- [53:57]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [53:58]
Jennifer Prokop
And I feel like it's a good example of a family who. The. The trauma of Gabe losing his wife and this beloved child, just like the family just kind of like doesn't know how to fill that hole in Gabe. And then it's just like a black hole in the middle of the family and forgave himself. Right. So yeah, that was another one that I thought would maybe be like, you know, just one person has experienced some trauma so massive. Right.
- [54:28]
Sarah MacLean
I think Kennedy Ryan sort of supporting them. Yeah. Kennedy writes that. I mean Kennedy, but Kennedy also. Like this is again where like the.
- [54:37]
Jennifer Prokop
The.
- [54:40]
Sarah MacLean
Sib like family is a broader, broader definition.
- [54:45]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. For Kennedy, a lot of it is like my friends or my support system and. Yeah, right.
- [54:50]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, yeah. Like, if you think about like the Black Dagger brotherhood, right. And how they all, like, protect Zadist or like, how. Or, you know, the Sebastian brothers and their trauma and the way that they protect sweet baby V. Do not leave.
- [55:12]
Jennifer Prokop
Me punch his window.
- [55:13]
Sarah MacLean
What's his name? Why did his name just escape me? What the fuck is his name?
- [55:20]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't know.
- [55:21]
Sarah MacLean
It's Alex Maxim and Dimitri Demetri. The third one.
- [55:27]
Jennifer Prokop
And the third one.
- [55:28]
Sarah MacLean
See, that's why he needs to be protected because no one knows his name.
- [55:33]
Jennifer Prokop
You know it. Yeah, I mean, I. So I think that sometimes is like a. That I think is often how that plays out in romance is like one of us experience something so super is like.
- [55:45]
Sarah MacLean
And that's. There's your big duke at the end. Right? Like. Like it's always this. That one's always the last one to find love. And like, we've watched him be tortured for, you know, five years, and now finally we get his book and we all love him so much. Man. We're simple people, you know? Simple people, Jen.
- [56:08]
Jennifer Prokop
I am simple, but awesome.
- [56:12]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [56:12]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay, here's my question then. Yeah. What are. Okay.
- [56:17]
Sarah MacLean
Should I look at my list now? Yeah, I think what I've forgotten.
- [56:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, like you, I sort of. And Louisa was sort of like, all romance families are dysfunctional, but I think they are dysfunctional in a certain way. One of the things I really wanted to, like, point out, and like, we've talked about this before, is often in a book like this with a dysfunctional family because of the hea. I think there is a feeling that, like, you have to redeem or make. Make.
- [56:45]
Sarah MacLean
Where'd this come from, Eric?
- [56:47]
Jennifer Prokop
My address is how exciting. Later he's going to be like, my.
- [56:53]
Sarah MacLean
Family is not dysfunctional today.
- [56:55]
Jennifer Prokop
They brought her ice cream.
- [56:56]
Sarah MacLean
They brought me ice cream.
- [56:57]
Jennifer Prokop
I think in sometimes in a book there is a. A movement towards, like, well, if we want the person to be in a happily ever after, then they have to like, sort of fix whatever's wrong in their family too. But I think sometimes can be trite or can be, like, damaging. Right. So one of the things that is in queer for queer people, especially, like, if your family has cast you out, there is no, like, no, that. Yes.
- [57:25]
Sarah MacLean
Find a new family.
- [57:27]
Jennifer Prokop
Right, Exactly. And I think that's why the power of, like, found family is especially so important to, like, realize. Yes, exactly. And there's. But in.
- [57:36]
Sarah MacLean
But in all romance. Right. Like, this is. Okay, this is Kingdom of Dreams, which is not at all queer romance.
- [57:46]
Jennifer Prokop
No, I just want to say that, like, there's a reason we did not mention Queer Romance Day. Like, I specifically was like, I'm not going to come in. Yeah, exactly. Right. And talk about dysfunctional families. Because if they kicked you out, that's not dysfunctional. That's. They are wrong.
- [57:59]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. And that's not. Yeah, that's they're shitty. Don't come back to them.
- [58:04]
Jennifer Prokop
Right, Right.
- [58:05]
Sarah MacLean
And so I didn't mean to be glib.
- [58:08]
Jennifer Prokop
No, no, I don't think you did.
- [58:09]
Sarah MacLean
This is about Kingdom of Dreams. You need to understand everybody that every day I think this is about Queen. This is like Kingdom of Dreams. It's just like all I want out of my life is for everything to just come. Come back to Judith McNaught novels anyway. But in Kingdom of Dreams, if you remember, she has this like terrible family. And she is what's missing from that dysfunctional. The dysfunctional family loop is what? Like the dysfunctional family that is so dysfunctional, sort of. And this is uncommon in romance, I think, but like a terrible family, actually. No, it's not. Let me. Now you're all having the thought. You're all in my brain. I'm so sorry for all of you. Okay. This often happens to heroines and it often happen. Happen very. It happened a lot to heroines in old school romance where a heroine would be the one shining beacon of light. It's the reverse of the. Yes, all the problems are on this person.
- [59:13]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [59:14]
Sarah MacLean
It's. None of the problems are on this person. Right, right. The heroine would be one shining beacon of light. The rest of the family is fucked beyond measure. And she is either Kingdom of Dreams style, attempting to like, win their love, be supported by them, be the favorite, never step out of line. And then they try to murder her love. And then she realizes, okay, this is maybe not. Maybe this is a toxic family. My family might be dysfunctional or two is they cast her out and then she has to like, be, you know, ridden through the woods to Scotland and wrapped in a plaid in the cold by some stranger because he's more willing to take care of her and more able to take care of her than her family could. And so he brings her to new family. Right.
- [60:16]
Jennifer Prokop
My clan, I really struggle with sort of the, the push for like a next generation. Because one of the things you have to believe is that, like, you're gonna.
- [60:32]
Sarah MacLean
Get me in trouble.
- [60:33]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm sorry, Sarah. Is that like, these people are real up from their families. Right. Every romance family is dysfunctional in its own way. And therefore, like, in finding this person, they are able to, like, kind of, like work through and become better people. Well, these people are going to raise good kids. Okay, everybody. Right. And I mean, that's the deal.
- [60:53]
Sarah MacLean
Happily ever after means.
- [60:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [60:55]
Sarah MacLean
That you don't bring trauma on the next generation.
- [60:58]
Jennifer Prokop
Right.
- [60:58]
Sarah MacLean
So, like fantasy.
- [61:00]
Jennifer Prokop
How could you be an interesting character if your parents were right? And so I think that this not me, and that's why it. I think there has to be, like, some kind of interesting way to deal with that. So I'm going to go back to. I'm sorry. These Neva Ultra books, which I like. There is like a. Like a next generation. And I was kind of like, okay, I guess I'm curious about this enough to be like, what's going on? Well, the first one I read, and I would have to look up the name of this book, sorry, is Beautiful Beast.
- [61:33]
Sarah MacLean
You're better at this than I am.
- [61:35]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't.
- [61:35]
Sarah MacLean
I haven't looked any of them up. I'm like, good luck to you all. It's a scavenger hunt.
- [61:44]
Jennifer Prokop
But in this book, the heroine is the daughter of, like, the couple in book number one. And she can't do Mafia because she's a girl. And so part of her, like, damage is that she is not allowed to, like, participate in the family business because of her gender. And I was like, okay, that's smart then. Right? It's not that she actually loves her family, and you know what I mean? But she's just.
- [62:15]
Sarah MacLean
And the trauma isn't coming from how the family treats her. The trauma is, how do I find somebody who can love me despite. Well, don't worry.
- [62:22]
Jennifer Prokop
She's just another mafia guy and it all works out for her. But I was like, okay, that is maybe a way to do it, because it's. You know what I mean? And then it actually, I could, like, sort of enjoy. Turns out she gets kidnapped. It's fine. There's scenes where her father is basically like, where are you? And he can't. And she's like, I can't come back home right now. I can't tell you. And then you see, like, the limits of that. So I thought it was like, actually, okay. I was like, okay, I can see why that I might be interested because the trauma is not. Or whatever is like, sort of the wound of this character is not being driven by, you know, my awful parents, because my parents were great and loved each other. This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by J.L. birchwood, author of Power Ballad A Metal Mayhem Festival Romance. I love this.
- [63:13]
Sarah MacLean
It's really cute. So Delilah is having a rough time. Two months ago, her fiance dumped her for another woman and she has decided that she was going to cure her broken heart with heavy metal music. She is going to go to the Metal Mayhem Festival, which is a four day celebration of heavy metal music at a soccer stadium in walking distance from her house. House. And she and her friend are gonna be in the blistering sunshine and eat deep fried festival food and pretend that, like, hearts are mended. Unfortunately, her best friend can't make it at the last minute. And Delilah is sort of in a place where she's not sure, like, can she really do this alone? Like, that's a long haul for one person. But she decides she's gonna go. She's gonna try it because, like, the other option is to wallow for the whole weekend, and that's not an option. When she gets there, she meets Bryce, who is at the festival for a friend's 30th birthday and literally would rather be anywhere else. Like, it's hot and the beer is warm and he doesn't know the music. Basically, he's like me at a festival. And so this is definitely not his crowd. But he meets Delilah and the two of them are, like, instantly attracted to each other. This is a romance that is kind of low, lower stakes, very insta love, low spice, but I think a lot of heat.
- [64:37]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. And if. Listen, I love a summer concert and a summer festival. Sounds like a great setting for a sort of like, you know, the fates have brought us together in a really modern and fun and metal way. That's so metal, Sarah. So if you would like to check it out. Power ballad. It is available with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to JL Birchwood for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [65:14]
Sarah MacLean
Can we talk about dysfunctional families in romance that are actually, like, kind of lovable and, yes. Fun.
- [65:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Sure.
- [65:23]
Sarah MacLean
Because I think Susan does that a lot.
- [65:26]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah, right.
- [65:27]
Sarah MacLean
Like, I think the family, like, she often does that with, like, grandparents. Like, there's always some, like, quirky grandparent.
- [65:36]
Jennifer Prokop
Bobby Thomas telling everyone his mother was a. Was a sex worker. Like, and I'm sorry I'm laughing, but she's just, like, so used to it because he can't believe he comes from this, like, totally normal.
- [65:49]
Sarah MacLean
Exactly, right. Exactly. Or the family in welcome to Temptation. No, the, like, just liars, cheats. Thieves.
- [66:01]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. They have, like, a little, like, they. And that's it. Like, you have to teach the younger generation how to, like, con people. They're con people. They're con women. And.
- [66:09]
Sarah MacLean
Well, that's Vika's whole family in the Player, which we've already talked about. You know, a quirky family is really fun. I mean, if I guess you could say, like, this. The soiled S's, like, all of the. I don't even remember their names.
- [66:27]
Jennifer Prokop
Talbot.
- [66:27]
Sarah MacLean
The Talbot sisters in my Scandal and Scoundrel series. Like, if you just have a group of people who are, like, all chaos, then it makes a better story because, like, there's always something fun going on. The difference between the, like, Ferris wheel family that's too chaotic to rely on is that these Ferris wheel families will do anything.
- [66:53]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes.
- [66:54]
Sarah MacLean
To take care of you.
- [66:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. One of the families I found myself really thinking about was, you know, everybody knows I love that Blue Cedar Fall series by Jeannie Chin. And in this, there's three sisters, the Wu sisters. And they move. They were moved by their parents into a small, like, sort of town in the Smoky Mountains in North Carolina. And in the first book, June is essentially like. There's, like, a bed and breakfast that is their families that she's managing. And she's like, essentially, like, I got to save this town. Like, the. The town itself is dying out. And so she comes up with the idea for, like, you know, kind of a festival. And, you know, she's got, like. They've got this real charming cat who's become an Internet sensation. And, you know, then Clay is gonna come and open up a bar, and he's like a real outsider. She just sees him as being something different. And the thing that I really loved about this series is that, like, these three sisters are really different. And then in the second book, May essentially was like, this town was really racist and treated me terribly, and I hated it. And even though she had a boyfriend, they were gonna, like, run away together. She leaves, and he won't leave. And so she comes back, and it's a second chance romance. And then in the third book, Elizabeth is the sister who is, like, an artist, and she is kind of like, mae comes home, and she's like, maybe I want to leave, and then doesn't realize that, like, her longtime roommate has been in love with her all along. But I think one of the things that is also so Wonderful. I mean, this series is great if you want to read about, like, a dysfunctional family who loves each other, but they just can't figure out how to support each other. And then, like, the work. So each individual romance is happening, but also, like, kind of the work of repairing the family itself. It's awesome. It's like, I think, really one of the best romance series I've read in the past couple years in terms of how each individual book builds to a cohesive whole for the whole family.
- [69:08]
Sarah MacLean
We didn't talk about, like, evil.
- [69:11]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [69:12]
Sarah MacLean
Uncles, et cetera, but they're sort of a dime a dozen, I think. I think there's like, the families where there's, like, you know, Scar from the lion game.
- [69:29]
Jennifer Prokop
Hear me out. Scar. Okay, fine.
- [69:31]
Sarah MacLean
No.
- [69:35]
Jennifer Prokop
They are like a dime a dozen. But I find those types of characters pretty flat and forgettable. Yeah, right. Like, I. I'm like, yes, I've read that plot where.
- [69:46]
Sarah MacLean
Because it's not an interesting. Yeah, it's family dynamic.
- [69:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. And it's not trying to be. It's really like a plot device. Like, you know, in a historical. It's like, I'm a young. Like, I mentioned that Gabrielle Carr book. Right. Like, I'm a young woman. My uncle is the titled person. He doesn't want to support me anymore. He's going to force me get married. Bam. Right, Right.
- [70:08]
Sarah MacLean
It's more interesting when it's like in the Proposition when the uncle is sort of distant and cold and, like, she loses her whole family. Like, she's just. The family is gone.
- [70:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really tricky because the more whatever evidence you put on page that this character has too much family trauma and they haven't figured out how to deal with it, the harder it is for me to believe the hea. Not just because I'm like, this person needs to do some work on themselves. Right. And sometimes what can be really tricky with that is, is if that gets in, if that is introduced too late, you're. For me, it can be really hard to know if. Well, how are they? How is this new person in their lot in their life helping them figure out kind of like, what's next? And so, like, an example of that is in Just for the Summer by Abby Jimenez. It kind of. It's almost like a book that really is like, two parts in Justin and Emma kind of have this meet cute. She's a travel nurse, and he has a really hard time, like, figuring out why she's so. Like, kind of what has made her so Mistrustful. And it's okay, like, spoiler alert or whatever. She actually, like, finds out that her. And she's, like, spent some time in foster care. And so she has, like, kind of a best friend that, you know, was, like, her foster sister who, like, you know, took her in or whatever and who's, like, a nurse with her. And it's really clear that she just doesn't really trust anybody. Even this family who, like, took care of her. Well, it turns out, like, her mother hid her from her parents and her family. Like, she finds out in the book, like, I have a brother. Like, she had no idea. Just a really grapple with. And I was like, this is. I mean. I mean, listen, for me, it was like, too big of a reveal to really kind of, like, it became its own. Like, it. It kind of like, became the, like, a black hole in the book. Like, again, like, it was too much trauma to introduce kind of too late in the book. And I think it's really interesting to see how, like, kind of what my personal threshold is for. Like, what I want is for this person, of course, to have a happily ever after, but I would like them to. To get 10 years of hard therapy first. Right.
- [72:59]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [72:59]
Jennifer Prokop
And I think that's just like a different. A different place for different people.
- [73:06]
Sarah MacLean
When I. If you're looking for, like, an evil uncle or like a like, sort of that sort of vibe of like, the uncle, the takeover, the kind of like, demand the family echo and this sort of guilt that comes with all of that, then Nisha Sharma's the Takeover Effect could be a real great read for you. This one is the. The heroine is basically. She wants to take over her mother's law firm. Her mother's passed away, and her uncles are trying to basically, like, sneak in and. Or swoop in and take it out from. From under her. And she basically says, like, I'm willing to do anything. And her, like, kind of evil uncle is like, well, fine, then I think you should take this job to go work on the, you know, at another firm at a business run by the hero. And if you can convince that hero to do a merger with me, then. Then you can have the firm. And of course they fall in love. And then, like, the. This, like, uncle does a lot of, like, evil uncle.
- [74:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [74:22]
Sarah MacLean
Things. And it's like. But what's interesting here is Nisha. And if you've read any of Nisha's books at all, the Takeover Effect is an early book of hers, but an earlier book, an earlier romance of Hers. But you can see the real, like. I mean, Nisha loves a family. And, like, so it isn't just like, here's a snide, like a kind of snidely whiplash hero. I'm sorry, Uncle. This is like, you know, there is complexity to all of the family dynamics in this book, and there just happens to also be, like, kind of a, like, singular bad dude. And I'll be honest, as I said before, I'm a simple person, and I sometimes like a singular bad dude.
- [75:02]
Jennifer Prokop
I mean, me too. One of my favorite recent families in romance is the Vega family and Natalie Canaan. Oh, yeah, Right. Which I think is, like, really, all of the.
- [75:15]
Sarah MacLean
Those grandfathers are Ferris wheels. But a good one in the Good.
- [75:19]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes, exactly. Like, the meddling that they do. And in particular, I think that it's really fascinating to see the way in which the, like, younger people in the family are like, what is happening? But kind of, like, know that it comes from a place of love. And so they have, like, really no choice but to, like, put up with it. Right. And so kind of the, like, really, the. Like, a really dynamic, truly funny interplay between the family, but also, like, the generational aspect of it is really well done because there's, like, you know, like. Like the generation that's having the love stories, like, some of them have kids, and so you've got, like, grandparents and parents and, you know, like, all, like, just. It. It is a really terrific that. To me, it's like the. The great. Like. Like a great dysfunctional family because the things that they do are just, like, normal family stuff. And it will drive you crazy. But, like, it's all done from love. It's not the kind of dysfunctional family where you're like, okay, well, that person's evil and I'm gonna back away slowly. Yeah. And that this character never talks to this person again.
- [76:35]
Sarah MacLean
Exactly. What other sort of favorites are there? I like this because we did an episode a while back that was about just, like, families in romance where we talked about the Bridgertons. In fact, I think we did it when Bridgerton came out. And so this is really nice because it's a different spin on a very particular kind of romance thing. And I mean, I think that's because romance is so much about, like, child trauma, like, installed buttons, the lies we are told about ourselves that we have to unlearn to believe that we're available for love. And that's why families are involved.
- [77:24]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. I think, you know, another one I was thinking about, which I wasn't sure that it really fit into any of those buckets was mistakes were made by Meryl Wilsner. And listen, I love this book, but Cassie is a like a college senior who has like a real hot one night stand with a older woman at a bar one night and essentially like the next morning is going to go out to breakfast with her friend's, you know, mom and finds out that like, friend's mom is the woman she had the one night stand in the bar with. And it's interesting because Aaron, of course, was not like, I'm gonna go seduce my daughter's best friend, but the attraction. And I think actually part of the reason it works is because the one night stand happens before they find out who they are. Right? And I think it's. And there's a lot of tension between Aaron and her daughter. And so it ends up being a really, I don't know, like, just. And I think too, like, Aaron's like, I went to family weekend, ended up having like sex with a college senior. I mean, there's just so much there, but none of it is coming from right. Like a bad place. But. And I think one of the things in particular about this book is I was really on. They end up essentially keeping the secret from Aaron's daughter. And I found myself as I was reading just being hyper aware of, like, this was going to have to come out right. Like, there's no way you can keep this a secret. And so I thought that that was a really a good example where it's. The dysfunction is sort of, I don't know, like, just the strain between Aaron and her daughter means that she doesn't know how to tell her, like, what's happening between her and Cassie. It's great. It's another one again, though, you're like, I mean, when I first read that premise, I was like, I don't think I can read this. I don't think I have the.
- [79:43]
Sarah MacLean
You don't have the stamina.
- [79:44]
Jennifer Prokop
I don't have the stamina for this kind of angst, but I did and it is a great read. Well, romance, families.
- [79:55]
Sarah MacLean
I'm sorry to all the dads out there who are dead in romance.
- [80:01]
Jennifer Prokop
Listen, if Disney can kill off all the moms, romance can kill off all the dads.
- [80:05]
Sarah MacLean
And I remember once getting on Twitter back when Twitter existed and saying, like, can you name a romance novel where all four with two protagonists, where all four biological or like, you know, primary parents are alive? And like, I think we came down to like two of them. And at one of the. I feel like it was like two of them and one of them was like one of those times when an author answers and is like all of my characters parents are alive, but none of them are on page.
- [80:37]
Jennifer Prokop
You know, like, it's like they're all alive. She's.
- [80:41]
Sarah MacLean
I know in my head that they're all. Anyway, that is dysfunctional families. And here's what I'll say. If you do come from a dysfunctional family, which, let's be honest, you probably do, just know that you're not alone and that romance has got you. Jen and I have got you. Sure. We all happy families are the same. All unhappy families are different in their own romancy way.
- [81:09]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm gonna, I, I'm gonna tell this story now, an hour and 15 minutes in because the likelihood of my mother listening this basically zero.
- [81:17]
Sarah MacLean
She's like, no, I'm done.
- [81:18]
Jennifer Prokop
I think once I said blowjob and come on the lenses.
- [81:21]
Sarah MacLean
She pieced out of the description of Nikki Sloan's redemption.
- [81:25]
Jennifer Prokop
But just to be safe, I've waited a whole hour later to say my brother Eric and I, and then like later Mike, we kind of looped him in, have this thing that we say to each other. There's this great scene from the TV show Cheers with Norm, who George Wendt just died.
- [81:43]
Sarah MacLean
Rip.
- [81:44]
Jennifer Prokop
Right? And I'm sure I've maybe talked about this before, but I have this video that I'll send to my brother and back and forth when like we just need to express this. So Cliff is sitting at the bar talking whatever Cliff shit he is. If you've never seen the show, just. No, he's just like this loser mailman, fine. And his mother, he lives with his mother still. And she comes into the bar and she's like, just like this very fussy older woman, gray haired, like with like curls. And she comes in with a shower cap and she like sticks it on his head and his says, clifford, you left this shower cap like on the bathroom floor. And so now you're gonna have to wear it all day. And she puts it on his head and storms out of the bar, right? And Norm and Frasier look at each other, right? And I think it's Frasier who says, I bet it is. I'm starting to understand that Cliff is heroically well adjusted, right? Like for years they've been like, this guy is a wreck and now it. Right? And I think that's what I wish for you that to remember, right? You are well adjusted.
- [82:55]
Sarah MacLean
That's perfect. I did not have to wait an hour and 15 minutes to say this, but I will say that during the course of this recording, my sister has texted me no fewer than 15 times about my mother.
- [83:11]
Jennifer Prokop
So.
- [83:13]
Sarah MacLean
Listen, we're all in the same boat.
- [83:15]
Jennifer Prokop
Why don't you send me her? I'm gonna send you this for you to send to her.
- [83:20]
Sarah MacLean
Perfect. Anyway, my love, no matter what kind of dysfunctional family you have, just remember we're all doing a little bit better than was done to us. How about that? We are Faded mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Procop. You can find us every Wednesday when you listen to your podcasts. We we are also available on Blue sky, on Instagram and on Threads. You can find the collections that Jen was referring to, including Sanj's terrific glasses collection at the Faded Maids website. Just head over to fatedmates.net, click on collections and you'll find a bunch of groups of books collected on theme by real humans and not a single algorithm in the the mix. While you're there, you can also click on show notes and that'll take you to the episode the Episode for today. You'll see a beautiful array of all the books we talked about and any references that we made in show notes. And don't forget to join us please in St. Louis. If you're anywhere near there, it's bound to be a fun time. Make a couple days of it. St. Louis is supposed to be very fun. You can find information@fademates.net live My new book comes out July 8th. It is called these Summer Storms. You can pre order it wherever you get your books. And if you live east of St. Louis, I might be near you on tour and Jen might be with me. So check out my Tour@Sarah McLean.net Tour Jen, is there anything else? Anything going on in June for you?
- [85:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Susan Elizabeth Phillips maybe that's it.
- [85:02]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, if you're reading Susan Elizabeth Phillips, so is Jen. Head over and talk to her.