← Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
07.49: Season Seven Ends Not With a Bang, but With a Kombucha Girl
01:14:51
Loading summary
Transcript529 lines
- [00:00]
A
Sarah, it's end of season seven.
- [00:03]
B
Can you believe people have tolerated us for the. I mean, not all people.
- [00:08]
A
Some people are going to be like, what is this episode? And you know what? This episode is Us.
- [00:12]
B
It's vibes. It's Faded Mates vibes.
- [00:14]
A
You know what? I. I think. I think it's really important to have, like, community meetings where we just celebrate the. The things that make romance great. This, I think, will be a really fun episode, like, once we get into it. Yes. In the meantime, part of the reason we are actually recording this at the end of July, because Sarah. I'm traveling and Sarah's traveling, and so we had to, like, do a bunch of episodes in advance again.
- [00:41]
B
So we don't know what the world is like. Probably not great, but this will be fun for everyone.
- [00:47]
A
Welcome to Faded Mates, everyone.
- [00:50]
B
I'm Sarah MacLaine. I read romance novels and I write them.
- [00:53]
A
And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor.
- [00:57]
B
And today we're doing something a little different. Like I. Like we said, Faded Mates vibes. We're just gonna have a fun time. Hopefully leave you all with a little bit of laughter. Headphones. I'm gonna say headphones in, I think.
- [01:09]
A
So I feel certain that this is going to.
- [01:13]
B
I know that it's probably not for young ears. Who are the ears of your mechanics.
- [01:19]
A
Or the car wash people, whatever it is.
- [01:22]
B
That is my by far my favorite message on social media is when one of our listeners is like, I delivered my car, Toyota, for an oil change. And as they turned on the car to bring it into the garage, I heard Sarah talking about an abundance of semen. You're welcome, mechanics of America.
- [01:50]
A
Sure. Making things fun for everyone. I feel like everybody's got to have those work stories where they come home and they're like, listen to what happened to me today.
- [01:58]
B
Especially people like car mechanics, because some of you all out there are really doing weird stuff in your car. And so, like, I am not the weirdest thing that's happening in there. I know because I've read a lot of romance novels. Like, some of these mechanics are detailing cars. And I'm not the weirdest shit. They're turning up.
- [02:19]
A
They're listening. Absolutely not.
- [02:21]
B
But they are turning me up because they're like, what's this? I'm gonna listen to it.
- [02:26]
A
Okay, so let me, like, lay out, like a how we got here to where you don't know what's happening yet, but I'm gonna explain it the best. That because sometimes I'm in Charge.
- [02:35]
B
Well, we. I wasn't really sure.
- [02:37]
A
Yeah, Sarah was. Okay.
- [02:38]
B
So about an hour ago, I made a phone call, and I was like.
- [02:41]
A
What are we doing that we're doing okay? The original idea came from someone on our Discord who suggested it would be really fun to have, like, essentially an episode. Like a TMI episode. Right. Like, too much information.
- [02:54]
B
Not for Jen.
- [02:55]
A
Yeah, right. And this is something I actually think is one of the most valuable, right. Like, ways to frame sort of discussion sometimes about romance in a way that is just, like, really, like, chill is instead of, like, kind of shaming someone for, like, how dare you like the thing you like, Right? We're just like, hey, that's nfj, right? Not for Jen or not for Sarah. Now, the problem is. And listen, different strokes for different strokes. Whoa.
- [03:22]
B
Different strokes for different strokes for different strokes. That's correct.
- [03:26]
A
I don't know. Whatever that metaphor is. Now, we generally on the podcast like to talk positively about this genre that we love, right?
- [03:36]
B
Like, honestly, we always talk positively about the genre that we love.
- [03:40]
A
And you know what? There's, like, kind of a couple of reasons for that. One is because we love it. Right. Two is because it's a lot more fun to recommend things.
- [03:49]
B
Right. Three is. Wait, can I add three? Which is it's much more fun to listen to people who love the thing than it is to listen to people who hate the thing, right?
- [03:56]
A
Absolutely.
- [03:57]
B
And I. I'm staring at one of the other podcasts out there, but I'm.
- [03:59]
A
Not going to say one. So I think that's the other thing is. And I think that, like, I will write about a book that I struggled with and. And feel like that is, like, a more neutral thing, but, like, talking. Maybe it's because I'm a middle school teacher, right. Like, it just at some point seems mean. So Sarah was like, wait, what are we doing here? This feels like this has the potential. And then I explained it to her instead, and she came up with the perfect analogy. That's the title of this episode. You know, that gif of the lady who's trying kombucha for the first time.
- [04:35]
B
Yeah. It's the perfect analogy where she's like, gross.
- [04:38]
A
Oh, what?
- [04:39]
B
Maybe gross.
- [04:41]
A
No.
- [04:41]
B
Gross, no. Wait, so actually, yeah, maybe I do like this.
- [04:48]
A
So the whole idea of today's episode is just like, us kind of, like, talking, like, in the trenches about stuff that, like, we have that reaction to, where we're like, no, maybe, yes, maybe no. Right? Like, just, like, funny, really specific, like, almost like microtropes that, like, kind of like, sometimes are, like, strike a very specific chord in us as readers. And this is us as readers.
- [05:13]
B
Right? Correct. Long time listeners of the podcast, though, will know that this is more difficult for one of us than it is for the other.
- [05:21]
A
Oh, yeah, you're a golden retriever. I'll say it. Sarah's like, I just like everything. Everything's delicious. That's yummy. Let me put that in my mouth.
- [05:31]
B
Eating out of the trash can.
- [05:33]
A
That is correct. Not me. I have a very.
- [05:36]
B
She's like a refined palette. She's like a, you know, one of those, like, Abyssinian cats. Like, I only eat the finest of.
- [05:45]
A
I only eat tiki cat. Right. I'm not getting anywhere near Fancy Feast. Not Sarah. Sarah's like.
- [05:52]
B
I'm like, fancy Feast has been open for a week. Yep.
- [05:56]
A
Put that right down the gullet.
- [05:58]
B
So here's. I have an. I prefer to think of it as I have an iron constitution. Sensitive stomach. Iron constitution.
- [06:08]
A
You know, what's funny is, in real life, I actually have an iron constitution. I can eat anything. Last night, we are at this Hozier concert.
- [06:15]
B
Okay. By the way, puts on a great show. I said it.
- [06:19]
A
If you have never seen this man in concert, Highly recommended. It was a great show.
- [06:24]
B
First of all, everyone, he is a romance hero. Evolved. Parentheses evolved. Like, because, like, at the end of the book. Because he's six. Six.
- [06:36]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [06:38]
B
And delicious.
- [06:39]
A
Oh, yeah. No, listen, the funniest part.
- [06:42]
B
Hands the size of dinner plates.
- [06:44]
A
I was with my husband, right? And. And so it was hot. It's Chicago in the summer, and, you know, it's kind of windy up there.
- [06:53]
B
On the stage, like, wearing a T shirt like a normal person.
- [06:56]
A
Right.
- [06:57]
B
Comes out in a full suit.
- [06:58]
A
Yeah, Right. So at one point, he's sort of like, my hair's kind of getting in my face. So he puts his hair up. The fucking crowd went wild. And my husband just looked at me like, what's happening right now? And I was like, I can't really explain this to you. I just need you to. I just need you to go with it.
- [07:18]
B
Listen, this man in a chokehold, as they say.
- [07:22]
A
Okay, the other really cute thing is, at the end, he, like, thanked everyone in his band and, like, the stage crew. Then he said, sweet.
- [07:30]
B
That's what it seems like.
- [07:31]
A
And then he said, my parents are here, no thanks to John. And I think it's like, it sounded like he said, john and Marlene. And then I was like, wait, is that the Days of our Lives couple? So maybe that's Wrong. But it was really cute. People really like that, too, too. You know, no one loves the Irish like Chicago. We died. The whole New York does.
- [07:52]
B
Okay, yeah, it's true. You know, Boston. I mean. But here's what I'll say. He's also just, like, such a good Irishman. Like. Right. I mean, I'm sure he. When he played. He played Eat yout're Young.
- [08:07]
A
Yeah.
- [08:08]
B
He. He showed all of the, like, you know, the arms data, like, the people dying in, you know, the Middle east and Gaza. And, like, there is something very powerful about, like, the Irish connection to what's happening in Gaza.
- [08:23]
A
Yeah, he made that explicit several times. It was. And then the end this, when he was, like, when Nina cried power, and he was showing all of the, like, other kind of, like, really famous protest songs.
- [08:35]
B
Yeah. Oh, that was great, too. Yeah. Straight right up until, like, recently. Also, his most recent album is, like, all. It's all in conversation with Myth. And so, yeah, sure.
- [08:47]
A
You're like, I love it.
- [08:48]
B
Am I obsessed? Absolutely.
- [08:50]
A
So my point is, is we did not have the kombucha face about Hozier. It was just whatever.
- [08:55]
B
We like Hozier. Straight up.
- [08:56]
A
Straight up.
- [08:57]
B
This is not an episode about Hozier. But. Because, yeah, we're not on the fence.
- [09:02]
A
Yeah. But you know what's funny is I would say man bun, generally speaking, gives me the face where I'm like, do I like this?
- [09:12]
B
Oh, I like a man bun.
- [09:13]
A
And then he put up his hair, and I was like, oh, okay.
- [09:17]
B
Pre trunk fairy king give himself a Mary a man bun. And you're like, okay, I guess this is the version I like. Well, so here's the truth. The truth is that I always say, like, romance is really interesting to me because sometimes you find yourself, like, in the boiling pot of water, and you're like, the frog. And you're like, do I like it in this? I think I might want to jump out. Where am I? And Jen usually jumps out, and I, oh, no. Sarah stays in here boiling away. So this was the other reason why I was having a. I. I was having a tough time before we sort of netted out at we're going to do the kombucha gif episode. Because for me, I am often like, oh, I'm definitely not into that. And then I'm like, oh, no way.
- [10:08]
A
Oh, wait.
- [10:09]
B
In the hands of the right author, I am, in fact, into this.
- [10:11]
A
Well, and I think that is probably, like, the. The baseline for all of it. Right.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah. And also, I just want to say, like, before we get into this. The other thing that I'm really fascinated by, and I think we talked about this a little bit when we did our 50 shades of gray episode, like, in season whatever we did it in. And one of the things I'm really interested in, especially with romance. So obviously this is my job, right? Like, the podcast is very. Is like, my. My joy. But, like, romance novels are my job, too.
- [10:44]
A
And stop bragging, Sarah.
- [10:47]
B
Listen, I'll trade with anybody these days, but the point is. The point is that. So when there is a book that sort of, like, bubbles up to the top and, like, becomes a book that is huge, I read it because it doesn't matter if, like, I'm making the kombucha gif or if I'm, like, not for Sarah, that book transcended in some way and, like, it's my job to understand why or at least to, like, interrogate why. Right? So when we did the 50 Shades episode, I think we talked about the fact that, like, I was always really fascinated by how fifty Shades exploded far beyond romance. And I think what was really interesting about 50 Shades was it also, like, everybody in romance was sort of like, and about Fifty Shades because we'd read a million other books like this, but, like, the world outside couldn't get enough of it to the point where, like, women in New York City were, like, buying out the Saks Fifth Avenue silver tie collection. And all I could think about, the only article I wanted was because there were so many, was the article about the men who came home to their wives of 10, 15, 20 years to discover that they had purchased them this, like, silver tie as some sort of, like, talisman or emblem of, like, what their. What they wanted to explore sexually. And these men just, like, fully not understanding being, like, what's going on here? What the fuck was going on? Right? Because I do think that that's what happened with 50 Shades is, like, a interesting thing. Like, I think, like, readers who had never, like, they jumped into this part of the pool of romance, and then they were like, how do I translate this to, you know, my dated? Like, maybe this is a thing I am into and, like, so my point about this is, like, the kombucha gif really does. I feel like skilled romance readers are able to compartmentalize, like, what in the text is, like, great and fun and what in their real life they would like to try. But I do feel like that line feels like it's getting a little blurry in the world. But I feel like, you know, I'm a Fudgeing pro. Like, I know the difference. I know.
- [13:23]
A
Yeah, exactly. I think the other thing that is really hard when you're in it, right. Is how clear it is, like looking back, like, okay, so something hits like that, and then everything's going to look like that for a while.
- [13:38]
B
Yeah. And that is like, oh, my God. Everybody's using a spreader bar and it just seems exhausting.
- [13:45]
A
And now there are like none to be found, right?
- [13:47]
B
No, because everybody realized it was exhausting.
- [13:50]
A
Right. So I do think that's like, sometimes when I'm kind of like, put on.
- [13:55]
B
Armor to have sex. That's the problem.
- [13:58]
A
One of. Come on, good girl. One of the things that I think then is like, really useful for me to like, remember is, okay, so like, in those times, I'm like, oh, there's nothing to read. I don't like anything. It's just because, like, whatever it is that is everyone's chasing, right. Might not. Might be nfj.
- [14:18]
B
Right. And you guys, this is not just like spreader bars. This is also like, you know, fake relationships.
- [14:28]
A
Right. I mean, so the thing is, of course, like, sometimes it's tropes, right? But like, we were really. So I. I think, like, my list is really funn. Cause I was just trying to. I had it on my phone and then just like when I thought of something, I would just sort of like put it on there. Cause I thought it would be funny to talk about. And these are the things that I would say, like, are the things that I would like potentially mostly be skimming in a book, like when I come across them, maybe I was kind of started putting some of that stuff on the list and then. And you know, the truth is, is sometimes you only notice those things when somebody makes you pay attention to them. This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought you by Avery Flynn, author of Head Witch in Charge.
- [15:12]
B
So it is the curse of every family's heir in witchingdom to be the most responsible one. That's just how it goes. If you're the heir, you got to keep it tight. And Leona Sherwood's family is the most powerful family in all of which the witch world. And so it makes it, like, worse in a lot of ways because all eyes on Leona. And that is why she never, ever, ever steps out of line exc. For the night when she accidentally, kind of on purpose, got married in a midnight ceremony under a full moon to Eric Swenson, the heir to her family's deepest, bitterest enemies.
- [15:51]
A
Feels like that's Gonna be a tough one to break.
- [15:53]
B
You're gonna, like, step over the line, Leona. Like, maybe just, like, miss a meeting or something. But anyway, so she messed it up and now she wants a divorce. Except Eric is like, no, thank you. I need your help to return this ancient spell book to my family, like, library or whatever. And the two of them embark on a road trip where they encounter trolls and nymphs and satyrs and more. And she ends up learning a lot more about Eric and the person who he is, and starts to realize, like, maybe he's not so bad. In fact, maybe he's pretty good. And maybe she's getting a little bit enchanted by this secret husband. And so what if she decides that she wants it to go on forever?
- [16:43]
A
I love it. I can't wait to find out what happens next. So Head Witch in Charge is available in print, ebook, and audio next week. So if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to pre order the book. Thanks to Avery Flynn for sponsoring this week's episode. Listen, almost all the time, we'll. My eyes will just sort of slide right over. Descriptions of, like, interiors.
- [17:15]
B
Interesting.
- [17:16]
A
Like, what does this place look like? And.
- [17:20]
B
Yeah. Why do you. Do you think that's true always? No.
- [17:23]
A
So here's the person that made me realize it actually was Susan Elizabeth Phillips. She really describes a room.
- [17:28]
B
Oh, yeah, she does. She loves that. Yeah. Now, I mean, listen, so do I. So it's fine.
- [17:34]
A
But, yeah, like, so it's really interesting, though, because I was like, I think. Okay, so, Sarah, I'm gonna admit something. Can I confess something, Everyone? Okay. In storms, there's a whole thing about Franklin's desk. And Franklin's desk was like, you know, Chase's desk?
- [17:56]
B
It's an Easter egg from the Historicals. Right? Yeah. And you were like, I don't understand what's going on here.
- [18:01]
A
No, I didn't even read it. I was like, it's a desk. Who cares? And then I was listening. Then I was listening to the aud. I was like, oh, that's so clever. Like, Sarah, I'm not kidding you. I, like, literally just was like, whoosh.
- [18:14]
B
Listen, that's fine.
- [18:15]
A
And I think part of it is.
- [18:16]
B
Because, I mean, I'm a little bit upset because that desk has been fucked on before, but all right.
- [18:20]
A
I mean, listen, I love you for it. It was amazing. I was amazing.
- [18:23]
B
For you to remember that there was another one.
- [18:25]
A
I mean, Julia Whalen, thank you for your service, but I think part of it is because I read really fast.
- [18:33]
B
Well, you're a fast reader. And that's my problem too. Right.
- [18:35]
A
And so it's kind of like this isn't important the first time around. Like, what is happening between these people is the important thing.
- [18:41]
B
Right. Skip to the end.
- [18:45]
A
What are they talking about? Right. What are they feeling? I don't care what desk they're on. But so, I mean, I think that's like an example of something. But then I think, you know, one of the things that's interesting about Susan Elizabeth Phillips, because I really had read a bunch of books of hers, is I think how carefully she uses interiors as a reflection. Not of like, this person has money, which is what a lot of them are, but, like, this is telling you something about who the character is.
- [19:15]
B
Right, of course.
- [19:16]
A
And then I was like, oh, that's why I'm paying attention. Because it's different than just like, look at the wealth of this person. Right. I'm not really interested in lifestyle porn. So it's like an example of something where I was like, oh, I'm going to pay attention in a different way. But if it's just like, you know, I mean, God love you, Kristen Ashley, but, like, I'm not going to ever read about Kristen Ashley describing a room. It's just like too much for me. You know what I mean? This woman must, like, have like a whole burn book of like, her favorite, like, interiors from House Beautiful magazine or something. I don't know. And I just am like. My eyes just slide right over.
- [19:55]
B
Yeah, sure, I get that. I get that it's interesting because I. I don't know that I have something. I mean, certainly I tend toward skipping over, like, massive descriptions of stuff like. Yeah, but I. I mean, I don't know about skipping over, but certainly not. I don't internalize them, but I actually, I think also as a person who I write a set piece location in almost every book that I write, I think I. That is not a thing that I do, Skip. I'm very interested in interiors and what they say about character. But you're right, like, if they don't say very much about character, then what am I doing here?
- [20:43]
A
Yeah, like the Fallen angel, for example, in your books, I was super interested in the fact that there was like a ladies lounge above where they could watch. I like that. But I mean, I probably read the books several times before I was like, oh, wait, there's a mural in there. Who knew?
- [21:00]
B
Yeah. I mean, fine. Also, like, I think in romance, too, we spend A lot. This is an interesting piece about romance readers. Right. Where we read so many books that, like, you tell me it's casino in a historical. I have that image in my head. Like, I don't. I don't need to go anymore. I know exactly what that book looks like.
- [21:22]
A
Right.
- [21:23]
B
Whether or not that's what it looks like is a separate thing, which is a problem for me as a reader and you as a. Like. I mean, like, it's a problem for everybody.
- [21:30]
A
Certainly has gotten me into trouble to.
- [21:31]
B
Use this set piece. And then I, like, I'm already. I'm. I think I'm smarter than you, which is a separate thing that I think a lot of voracious readers do.
- [21:41]
A
Yeah, we fill it in like.
- [21:42]
B
You know what my problem is? Daytime.
- [21:46]
A
You do have a daytime problem.
- [21:49]
B
Surprising. Absolutely.
- [21:51]
A
I don't understand why you don't just set all of your books in Norway in the winter and just get it. Be done with it.
- [21:55]
B
I mean, yeah, just like, the sun never rises and that's that.
- [21:58]
A
Sure.
- [21:59]
B
No, I have a problem with daytime. And literally. So I'm reading this book right now, which I'm not going to name because I'm not done with it. And I don't know if I. If I recommend it or not, but I am reading this book right now, and literally, these two characters are constantly eating breakfast. And in my head, I'm like, it's fucking nighttime.
- [22:20]
A
You just changed that all.
- [22:21]
B
Yeah, Like, I literally. If it's daytime in your book, like, it's not daytime in my head.
- [22:29]
A
All romance novels take place at night. And it's just.
- [22:32]
B
There's no sexy romance time during the season. Sun, like, should be touched by sunlight. It should all be dark.
- [22:39]
A
I do like, a. Like, we're gonna fuck with the blinds open. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, that can be.
- [22:47]
B
Well, I can't tell you a single book where that's happened. Okay.
- [22:49]
A
You know where I can? It's in Joanna Shoop's book with the last one, the Devil of Downtown. And Justine shows up at his house and they fuck during the day in his room with the blind open and his hottest house.
- [23:04]
B
Yeah, I remember that. But it also happened at night.
- [23:08]
A
That was just like one of those lights. See? See, I told you we'd have a good time. Exactly. I told you.
- [23:17]
B
Exactly. So Jen has, I think, a lot more than me, because although I didn't know daytime was on my list until this exact moment, I knew it was gonna happen.
- [23:24]
A
Don't worry.
- [23:25]
B
Jen's list is gonna be Very funny and prepared. And mine is gonna be pretty off the cuff, although I do have two that are guaranteed. So why don't you go next, Jen?
- [23:34]
A
All right, so, Sarah, what I. Now listen, this one really comes from, I think, being a long term, a long time romance reader, okay? And I want to talk about what I'm calling the. The damp to wet continuum.
- [23:49]
B
Oh, no.
- [23:51]
A
Because here's the thing. Everybody is always fucking dripping. Everything is so wet in modern romance. Like, you know, back in the day, people just were like. It was like damp. People were a little damp. Women were a little damp, Dewey.
- [24:09]
B
Oh, no. Oh, wait. I've got to say, before we even start, all of these words are not for Sarah.
- [24:15]
A
This is my headphones in, right? And the thing is, is so if you go back and read like a, you know, an older. A book from before, you know, three generations ago or whatever, you're just like, well, these people aren't even ready to have sex. It's.
- [24:33]
B
By the way, everybody. So three generations in romance is about.
- [24:36]
A
Five years ago, a little older than that. But, like, my point is, you read these books, you're like, these people can't have sex. They are dripping in moisture, right?
- [24:45]
B
Oh, my God.
- [24:46]
A
It's really. So much, so much, right?
- [24:49]
B
So much, so much that then when, like, Alexis Daria puts lube on the page, you're like, what for? They're practically transformational work here.
- [24:58]
A
Now I will say, right, like, everybody.
- [25:01]
B
Alexis's books are so sexy in part because, like, she's like, no, let's get the lube out and like, do this. Right?
- [25:06]
A
Yeah, exactly, right? So, yeah, that's. I think what's really funny about it is. But also, here's my other thing, okay? Now I'm gonna really get down to brass tacks. So given this, I will have to tell you, one of the things that is NMJ is like, why is everybody spitting all of a sudden? There's so much spit all of a sudden. You're all red right now. Soaking wet.
- [25:30]
B
Okay, guys, everybody is spitting a lot.
- [25:33]
A
Yes, there's lots.
- [25:34]
B
What's going on out there?
- [25:36]
A
I don't know. And I just feel like. But like, mostly I'm like, I don't understand why there's. Okay, but everyone's. Sarah, they are practically an ocean. I gotta tell you, though, they're a waterbed. Why is there spit involved?
- [25:54]
B
Everybody is spitting. This is true. And I want to say some things about this because as you all know, I don't. I. This is fine for me.
- [26:01]
A
I'm fine.
- [26:02]
B
I'm just in the water. I'm fine. Sure.
- [26:04]
A
There's boiling and I'm like, it's a spit boil. Look.
- [26:11]
B
Here'S what I'll say. There are two kinds of spit that are happening right now, and I don't like one of them, but one of them I'm really fine with.
- [26:17]
A
Okay.
- [26:17]
B
And can be very hot.
- [26:18]
A
Yeah, I mean, sometimes I do think it's hot.
- [26:20]
B
Now, listen. Okay. Depends on where they're spitting. Let's be clear.
- [26:23]
A
Agree.
- [26:24]
B
Okay, fair. So if they're spitting above the waist, I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? Like, if some. Like, if they're spitting in your mouth. No, no, sir. Get out of here. Also, because let's be honest, like, this is definitely happening in cis. Hetero and this is not happening in, like. I mean, it's happening with men.
- [26:47]
A
How about that? Yeah.
- [26:50]
B
The. If they're spitting in your mouth, that's a hard pass for me.
- [26:54]
A
Yeah. I think that's where I'm like, I.
- [26:55]
B
Don'T want it gross. But no, we're not king shaming. But yeah, if they're spitting below the waist, sure.
- [27:05]
A
Sexy.
- [27:05]
B
Fine. Listen, I don't have a problem with it.
- [27:09]
A
I would say I don't either.
- [27:11]
B
See, we're finding. See, this is where the faces are.
- [27:14]
A
See? Exactly. I was like, exactly.
- [27:16]
B
No.
- [27:17]
A
Yes. No.
- [27:18]
B
So, but here's the thing, because early days, three generations ago, great, great romance.
- [27:28]
A
Oh, my God, stop it.
- [27:30]
B
Our great, great romance. There was no spinning at all.
- [27:34]
A
Oh, no.
- [27:37]
B
So it's interesting because I do think one of the other things that could be an episode, but it could actually just be a banter episode. Those of you who don't know, we sometimes do we throw an episode every once in a while. Jen and I have a.
- [27:47]
A
Like, like, if you like this.
- [27:51]
B
Banter plus.
- [27:52]
A
But the.
- [27:53]
B
We do one episode a month for our Patreon subscribers. And this. And it's usually like. It's usually like, let's really dig deep on the spinning, which it's. We've never done spinning. But the point is that I think. I think this is one of those things that, like, people are trying. Is it possible that authors are attempting to, like, out kink each other?
- [28:22]
A
That's what I word. Like.
- [28:24]
B
And so they're like, spitting as hot because of porn. Like, people spit a lot in pouring. Right?
- [28:31]
A
Remember, we're talking about, like, the ebb and flow. Flow of just, like, things kind of going in and out of romance. And I do think that there is, like, sort of a Like, a feeling of, like, if other people are doing it, then I should maybe do it too. Or like, we have seen a lot.
- [28:52]
B
A rise of a lot.
- [28:53]
A
Yeah. You know what else I think of, though? Mostly what I think of is, do you remember that scene in Sex and the City? The first time Miranda is with a man who wants her, like, to rim him, and she, like. At, like, the next time she comes back into, like, the Miranda. And she was like. She was like, are we doing this now? You know what I mean? Like, and I feel like sometimes that's what's happening. Like, people like, oh, are we doing this now? Okay.
- [29:18]
B
Exactly.
- [29:18]
A
Put some spit in there.
- [29:19]
B
It's like my favorite. My favorite quote from Sleepless in Seattle is when what's his name, the director? Rob Reiner. And. And Tom Hanks are, like, walking down the street in New York City, and Rob Reiner is like, oh, dating. What's. What is it? It's just, you go, you have tiramisu. You.
- [29:37]
A
Blah, blah, blah.
- [29:38]
B
And Tom Hanks goes, what's Jeremy Sue? And Rob Reiner goes, you'll know it when you see it. Yes, right. Tom Hanks goes, well, some lady's gonna want me to do it to her, and I'm not gonna know how to do it.
- [29:51]
A
Not gonna know how to do it. Exactly. No. And that's how I feel about spit. I feel like spit is just the tiramisu of, you know, 20, 25.
- [29:59]
B
All right, that's fine. All right.
- [30:00]
A
So that's it. I'm just like, listen, not everything has to be so wet. You can use lube. It's fine. It's fine.
- [30:08]
B
So, yeah, and saliva, it doesn't actually do the job right. The other things do.
- [30:14]
A
I was like, lube is designed for this purpose. Slime is just designed.
- [30:17]
B
You know, I think often about that. I knew who was trying. Who was, like, moving into anal in her books, at least, and are we doing well? And I think in her mind, she was like, how do you handle lube in a. Like, sexy, like. Like, breathless, like, we weren't intending to do this here in the garage kind of way. And I was. I remember being like, well, I feel like this particular kind of sex act.
- [30:52]
A
You should be the first one in the book.
- [30:54]
B
You're probably not in the garage. Like, maybe he, like, throws her over his shoulder and, like, takes her into.
- [31:00]
A
The house where the lube is. You know what's funny?
- [31:02]
B
It's just me spitballing, dear.
- [31:04]
A
So you said spit. Do you remember how there was, like, a A time. And I think we are past it now and I'm glad for it. And maybe this is why. Maybe this is just like the evolution of like introducing the sex act as being a pretty normal one that like a lot of people enjoy.
- [31:19]
B
Right?
- [31:20]
A
Is it was like food. Do you remember that? It was like someone.
- [31:24]
B
Yeah.
- [31:24]
A
Like pudding and like butter. And you're like, yeah.
- [31:28]
B
Oh no. You mean lube wise. Yes. Oh yeah. They would use like butter or oil. Not that doesn't seem safe. I don't know. I'm not a doctor, but I think.
- [31:36]
A
That'S probably what that was.
- [31:38]
B
Right.
- [31:38]
A
Is like sort of like people potentially authors being like, I wanna. I can't show that like these people want do this because of the way this sex X has been shamed. And it's. And now I think it's just so much more matter of fact. Like to me, I feel like, you.
- [31:55]
B
Know, we've talked a lot about like.
- [31:56]
A
The ripping of the condom wrapper. I feel like for anal sex what it is now is just like the cap opening. Like that's like the. Right. And that's it.
- [32:05]
B
You just say nobody could write a dissertation on that exact thing. Listen, the like sounds of romance. Yeah.
- [32:12]
A
And so I think like.
- [32:13]
B
Right.
- [32:13]
A
So I think like one of the things is like now this, this is like a pretty matter of fact thing that lots of people enjoy of all kinds. There is nothing shameful about it. And now it's just like we don't have to pretend they were like, ooh, while in the kitchen eating chocolate pudding. I had this great idea, right? And so I do think like, maybe that's like a good thing. See, look at us solving.
- [32:35]
B
We're just. We're changing. Changing the world.
- [32:40]
A
Saving your life. I mean, no, you guys, if you don't know what that reference is, you just have to check show notes. I can't go into it right now. It's too much. It's just too much. It's a romance classic though.
- [32:53]
B
This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Rose Prendeville, author of Grace on the Rocks. Sarah.
- [33:00]
A
I have never read a book description more stressful. And I like to read Jack Reacher books. And this one we've got Grace Rios. She has four weeks to turn in a delinquent manuscript before her editor revokes the advance, which of course she's already spent.
- [33:16]
B
Oh, no. Nightmare.
- [33:17]
A
And she just has a huge case of writer's block imposter syndrome and zero words written. So after. Now that Sarah's laying down, I'll tell you the rest of the plot. So however, she does get real lucky and she wins a trip to Scotland where she is going to spend like, she's like, I can go there and just like hole away in my cute little cottage writing retreat and just. That'll be that. Only problem is Brian McNeil. He and his sister own this cottage they've inherited from their grandfather. And when he returns to Scotland, he's, you know, kind of has a plan to renovate it. And he wants to go off the grid and find people to help fund his dream of opening a carbon neutral whiskey distillery. And instead, there's this lady in the cottage because the sister has rented it out to Grace. And so anyway, there's only one bed. There's an annual summer music festival.
- [34:14]
B
Oh my God. She's never going to finish her book. She's going to be too busy smashing Brian. Oh God, Grace.
- [34:19]
A
You say that like it's a bad thing. Anyway, Grace, we believe in you.
- [34:23]
B
You better take up a career in whiskey distilling because that book's not getting finished.
- [34:27]
A
I believe in Grace. I believe in you. So check it out everybody.
- [34:31]
B
If you are interested in reading Grace on the rocks, then you can do that right now. This is first in a new series from Rose and First Time newsletter subscrib. Rose's newsletter can get a coupon for 25% off. So that's pretty great. You can do that@roseprendeville.com in the meantime though, you can read this book in print or ebook or at Overdrive and Hoopla. And if your podcasting app supports it, click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Rose Prenderville for sponsoring this week's episode. I'm going to take it to a much more serious place.
- [35:06]
A
Oh good.
- [35:07]
B
And say men who don't deserve to suffer.
- [35:14]
A
Who are those men?
- [35:16]
B
Well, there are too many of them in romance right now. Oh yeah, yeah, Listen, I need my men to suffer. You all know this. I need them to be handmaidens of the patriarchy, or at least representative of it. And then I need them to be broken and crawling over broken glass to like or at least sort of required to evolve into sort of a hozier like character at the end.
- [35:41]
A
Sure, fine, yeah.
- [35:42]
B
Romance hero, parentheses, evolved.
- [35:45]
A
Sure.
- [35:46]
B
But I need to see those.
- [35:47]
A
Like a Pokemon.
- [35:49]
B
Exactly. Level. Level 10. Sure. And so that is my problem right now. I feel like kombucha wise. Like I'm more willing to take a sort of half evolved hero at the beginning of a book these days than I was at the beginning of my life as a romance reader. But I'm gonna need my men to.
- [36:10]
A
Do more work in romance, and not just chores, work. Yeah, we'll talk more about that in a minute. I think you can make many cases, give me many examples of books where I'd be like, yeah, this is fine. What I. I think is the real problem for me is when they have.
- [36:24]
B
No arc, you would need them to have parentheses evolved.
- [36:28]
A
Yes, exactly. Like, a character arc is a fine thing. And I think that, to me, is, like, the real promise of romance. Right? Is that this relationship is going to make the people involved in it have to change to be together.
- [36:43]
B
Correct. Right.
- [36:44]
A
And so it doesn't matter if it is a. Why choose romance with seven people or two people? It doesn't matter. Like, the. But the whole point is, being in this relationship means the people have to.
- [36:55]
B
Change for both of them or for all of them. Right.
- [37:00]
A
And I think, like, one of the things where I see a lot of. And, you know, listen, I'm sorry.
- [37:04]
B
I.
- [37:05]
A
This is a. A statement that I think I've read so many examples of it. It's not even about any one book in particular. So if you're listening and you're like, this is about my book, it may or may not be. It's good. It's about a lot of books.
- [37:17]
B
Right. Probably not, though. One of the things I'm seeing a.
- [37:20]
A
Lot of is, like, the return of heroine only point of view. These are in, like, MF romances mostly. Right. And the thing with this guy is, the reason it's. We can't have his point of view is because he's been in love with her all along, and therefore, there's, like, no tension there, and he has no arc. He's just waiting around for her to figure it out. And then at the end, he says, I've been in love with you all along. I don't. I don't. What? What. What. How did he change or grow? What was the challenge? That. You know, falling in love is a complicated thing. And so I just. Am. I. That's. You know, I don't think you need to suffer, but at least this person needs to be a person. And that, I think, is, like, the real. I mean, I think we have the same issue, right? I mean, if you can't make them suffer, I guess. But can they at least, like, be a dynamic character, the em. Forester of it all?
- [38:13]
B
I mean. Yes, yes. But also, I feel like part of the. Okay, listen, I Say crawling over broken glass. Like I say break them, break them. But that's not really what I mean. This is where like I make my kombucha face. Right? Like sometimes. Yeah, break them. And sometimes like, I just need to see that if all was lost.
- [38:36]
A
Yeah.
- [38:36]
B
They would be devastated. Like, I just need to see it and I need to see that she will be okay without him.
- [38:49]
A
Yeah. Interesting.
- [38:50]
B
I really believe that in a romance novel the heroine would be fine without the hero, but the hero would not.
- [38:54]
A
Be fine without the heroine. You know what?
- [38:56]
B
Except in an MF romance.
- [38:59]
A
And like if I was editing right now, I would just feel like people.
- [39:02]
B
Are gonna be mad at me on the Internet, I guess. But like, yeah, that's how I feel.
- [39:07]
A
Well, I do think, because one of the things I've always really loved about romance is that I think it deeply respects the inner strength of like women as characters.
- [39:17]
B
Yeah.
- [39:19]
A
Whereas like the world in general thinks that men are very strong and this is a place where they have to figure out that, that like the strength that is valued in their workplaces or whatever is not the same. So yeah, I. I accept all that. I accept all that.
- [39:34]
B
That's how I feel.
- [39:36]
A
Yeah.
- [39:36]
B
All right, you go. Okay.
- [39:38]
A
At Faded makes live. And I say this all the time because it really makes me laugh. Kate said once, cuz Kate loves a cowboy romance. And I was kind of like, why do you like these cowboy ro romances so much? I'm always really interested in like why a certain sub genre like really hits for people. And it sometimes I think it takes a while to figure out like really what it is at the core of it. Because there might be something on the face of it that you're like, really should be like, kind of like not for you. And so I love to make Kate say it when she's around, but I'm going to say it for her. Like one of the things she says like cowboy romances is that she loves that men have to do chores. Perfect. It is perfect. Right. And I think it was a really interesting because apparently a few weeks ago at was it McNally Jackson, where it was Tressy and Sanj Song and Regina Black and one other person. I can't. I'm sorry, I can't remember who like you know, heavy hitters. Right. People that are like, who do really interesting thinking in the world and in romance and a. Right, right. And apparently one of the things that someone in the discord was sort of reporting was able to be there and I was very jealous was that Tressy had Made a similar point that, like, cowboy romances are about competency. Right. Here's a man who's going to know how to do things and doing them is part of the job. Now, I like that. And it has actually helped me to enjoy a cowboy romance, which typically I don't really have not been my thing. And in fact, I like it when they are like, I'm a bad person if I don't do my chores. Correct. That's how you should feel.
- [41:21]
B
Yes.
- [41:22]
A
Now, what is not for Jen, though, what gives me the kombucha face is a woman doing chores.
- [41:29]
B
Yes. I. I mean, sure. So here's my question about this. Okay. A woman doing chores.
- [41:35]
A
Let's probe.
- [41:38]
B
So do we mean. Because here's what I would say in, say, Kressley Cole's the master, we see a character. Now, this is not exactly chores because it is her job. She's. She is cleaning house. Houses for a living to make money. And it is, like, supposed to show us, like, like, this is. This is her, like, working her ass off to, like, protect her identity from a baddie. Are we okay with labor?
- [42:11]
A
Yeah.
- [42:11]
B
Or is it specifically chores?
- [42:14]
A
I think it's specifically, like, household type chores, because chores where, like.
- [42:18]
B
Like, I'm not getting paid for my work.
- [42:20]
A
Yeah. Like second shift type stuff. Right. Like, essentially. Right. Which is like, you know, so a woman is like, goes off to work all day and then she comes home and she's doing, you know, chores or, like, laundry or whatever. Yeah. Now, I think part of it is because this is like, one of the very things I am, like, trying to escape when I'm reading romance. Right. Like, I'm like, that pile of laundry or whatever. But I also think that one of the things that I really like about romance is how often women as characters, kind of regardless of now, whether or not it's like an MF romance or write a Sapphic romance or whatever, are able to, like, create spaces for themselves that they love being in that they feel, like, safe and happy and secure and. You know what I mean? Like, no, you know, and. And this is often, like, a journey that I'm off. I'm also. I'm often really interested in. Right. So here is a person who maybe, like, growing up, didn't like. Right. Like, a good example is in Nero by S.J. tilly.
- [43:31]
B
Right.
- [43:31]
A
Like, the main character is, like, she has her apartment and she grew up in a really unhappy home. Like, she had essentially an abusive stepfather. And, like. And the thing that's, like, really interesting, though, about this Book is like she feels like safe there, but she's also like kind of stultified. She doesn't know how to enter the world. I think for a lot of women, especially if you have families, home is a place where like a lot of shit needs to get done and you have to do them. And I think one of the things I really like in romance is when women instead feel. Don't feel that way when they are at home. Does that make sense?
- [44:11]
B
Yeah, of course. Okay.
- [44:13]
A
So yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
- [44:16]
B
You know, I was talking to somebody. Where was I? Recently I was at the office as a Book of the Month, which.
- [44:23]
A
Let's stop and hear about that.
- [44:25]
B
These Summer Storms was selected as a July pick for Book of the month, which was very exciting for everybody, not the least of which me. And as part of that, they invited me to go into the Book of the Month offices to do they. It was so great. They threw me like a little party.
- [44:45]
A
That's so fun.
- [44:46]
B
One of the staff members there, listen, they have a very cool office in Manhattan and one of the staffers there is a mixologist. Like a part like she like loves to make cocktails. So she invented a cocktail that's amazing. Was the colors of the storm's cover and also had like thyme, simple syrup in it and like T H Y M E because there's wild thyme in the book. Like it was really lovely. And as part of it they asked me to be on their podcast. So I did the interview for the podcast and one of the questions that was asked was about it was sort of not related to chores, but it is related to this, this idea of like there is a fantasy in romance that there isn't in other kinds of books. Right. And what I mean by that is the question that she asked was about one of the things that you've talked about a lot actually, which is like at the end of a romance, things have to be tied up, right?
- [46:00]
A
Right.
- [46:00]
B
Like you can't end a book, a romance novel and have like the reader continuing to ask a kind of big picture question about the characters, the world, the like happy, the, the happiness, the whatever the, the promises are of romance. Right. But in a work of say, commercial fiction, you can end it with sort of an open ended, like I don't know what's going to happen to these characters, but like, like maybe they'll be okay. Right. Which is why I'm so. I'm literally out here dying on the hill. That Storms is not a romance novel. Right? But so we were having this conversation and I said, you know, I think romance novels traffic in a very particular kind of fantasy, right. About wealth, about power, about chores. Right? Where like, like if we, if we take as gospel that romance is about like showing us the myth of a society, right? Like carrying, carrying, holding a mirror to who we are, but also showing us who we are in our best self, at our best selves, like moving us toward like joy, happiness, power, like partnership, equity, all of those things. Right. Then we are in a position where something like chores doesn't have space in a romance novel because we're never going to get past that. Right. Like we're always going to do chores. But like this, all this is other things too. Like it's, it's, it is, it's lots of the. Our real life doesn't go into a romance novel because it's not part of the fantasy, right. It's not part of what we want at the end.
- [47:53]
A
Yeah. I think it's just like built in. So I don't need to talk about it.
- [47:56]
B
I know what happily. I know that happily ever after in my life requires me to like wash dishes, right.
- [48:03]
A
So why talk about it?
- [48:04]
B
Yeah, I don't need that to be in my romance novels. And so while I don't mind it if I'm watching somebody watch Wash edition romance, though, I think like, like I certainly. This is part of why like a lot of fic just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Because like, I don't need to watch you just like.
- [48:21]
A
Yeah.
- [48:21]
B
Living your daily lives with characters. I don't mind it. But as you know, I do have one significant problem which is a very daily real life occurrence, which is not one person ever in the McLean I has ever used a bathroom.
- [48:41]
A
Never.
- [48:41]
B
My characters would never.
- [48:44]
A
Because they're like Murderbot. There's just smooth down there.
- [48:48]
B
I don't feel. There's just no need. So like. And honestly, anytime I'm reading a book, historical, contemporary. Anytime I'm reading a book and a character uses the bathroom, I'm like, why, why are we doing this? I don't want to do this. Chamber pots could not be me. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, because it just feels. That just feels like body chores.
- [49:15]
A
Exactly. I mean, a shower, A bath is sexy. Make it sexy, great.
- [49:19]
B
But yeah, yeah. None of my characters use a shower either. Unless there's gonna be sex in there. I mean, they do obviously use showers, but like, why am I in there with them?
- [49:30]
A
Right. It was like none of my simply not your business.
- [49:33]
B
This is not my business.
- [49:34]
A
You know what's really funny about that though? Like, seriously though, one of my all time favorite like moments in the first in a hunger like no other is Lachlan being like, like discovering the shower. I mean, this thing is fucking great.
- [49:47]
B
Well, that's different, but it's different time travel.
- [49:54]
A
This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by 1000 in one Dark Knights, publishers of the Hearts and Hidden Secrets collection.
- [50:04]
B
We love these collections because they deliver four terrific romances by authors who know the job. And this particular collection, which is a family romance collection, meaning it's revol. All the stories in here revolve around some kind of family situation. So maybe single parents, maybe surprise pregnancies, maybe a long lost family member comes home and causes chaos.
- [50:30]
A
Us.
- [50:30]
B
These stories are by Devnee Perry, Helena Hunting, Lauren Blakely and Tiesen. And what's interesting about this is like, these are four women who know how.
- [50:41]
A
To write it hot.
- [50:42]
B
They know how to write it fast. They know how to write it so that at the end of it, you've had an incredibly delicious time.
- [50:50]
A
So if you are interested in checking out the Hearts and Hidden Secrets collection, it is available in print or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it and you click on the chapter title right now, you can be taken to buy the book. Thanks to 1001 Dark Nights for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [51:14]
B
I have. You know how there's like, Murphy's Law?
- [51:17]
A
I do know about Murphy's Law.
- [51:19]
B
Are you familiar with Murphy's Law or say the law of Newtonian physics, something like that?
- [51:26]
A
Sure.
- [51:27]
B
I, I. Maclean's Law of Romance, heroes. And I'm sorry, but this is binary.
- [51:33]
A
Yeah.
- [51:34]
B
Everything else in the whole world is fluid.
- [51:36]
A
Yeah.
- [51:36]
B
But this, I will. I, I am pro Fluidity.
- [51:40]
A
It's a continuum. It's flu. Fine.
- [51:42]
B
But this, this is not a continuum. This is binary.
- [51:46]
A
Okay.
- [51:46]
B
It is, unfortunately, specifically about heroes and romance. I'm sorry, I don't. I do not claim the law about whatever that may be.
- [51:53]
A
You don't know.
- [51:55]
B
All heroes of romance are either poopers or not poopers.
- [52:01]
A
This is why I'm fascinated by your. Like, I don't ever want them in the bathroom. But then this is how you frame this hotel.
- [52:06]
B
And I honestly cannot tell you how I know where this came to pass and who I was with, but I do not know what sparked it. But I am right. Everybody out there is like, no, what does that mean? A lot of you are like, what is. What is this? Okay, this is actually very true. It's just true. It's binary. Derek Craven is a pooper. Tom Sein is not a pooper.
- [52:40]
A
That's all you need to know.
- [52:41]
B
Like, you figured it out.
- [52:43]
A
You intuitively understand it now.
- [52:49]
B
And so people are like, oh, you just say, like, all your. Like, okay. Benedict Cumberbatch does not poop. Tom Hardy poops with the door open.
- [53:02]
A
Oh, my God, it's so funny.
- [53:04]
B
Okay, it doesn't. Listen, there is no. I know some of you out there are like, well, my hero, like, seems like he's not a pooper, but he is a pooper. You're missing the point. Which is not. This is not what. I'm not judging. This is not me saying, like, one of these things is good and one of these things are. Is not good. I'm just telling you that you're wrong. And if your character does, then he's a pooper. Right.
- [53:31]
A
Now, my favorite part about this is knowing that Kate is somewhere being like, six alive, you know?
- [53:39]
B
Well, we could do the Claiborne Hero Continuum because she has written both poopers and not poopers.
- [53:43]
A
No, she would know. She's. She's dead. No, you just killed her. I just killed. Good job, Sarah.
- [53:51]
B
And here's the truth. So have I. I've written many poopers. I've written some non poopers.
- [53:57]
A
Who are your non poopers?
- [53:59]
B
I feel like cross is probably cross.
- [54:01]
A
Probably.
- [54:04]
B
I think it's possible that the Duke of Claiborne does not poop.
- [54:08]
A
Correct. I would say. Yeah. Yeah.
- [54:10]
B
I mean, listen, I'm not saying there's anything.
- [54:12]
A
Listen, I just, like, I'm just.
- [54:14]
B
It's just fact.
- [54:17]
A
Oh, my God. Okay. This actually kind of leads me maybe to one of mine.
- [54:22]
B
Everybody right now has just decided if they are sticking with us forever.
- [54:27]
A
Forever.
- [54:27]
B
That's it. Also, P.S. everybody, this actually works for the men in your life as well. I'm not honestly going to discuss that, but I will say, now that I've introduced you to this binary, you can think about it. Yeah. Every person, every man you meet, you're going to know right away, pooper or non pooper.
- [54:44]
A
Okay, here's. Okay, Sarah, let me tell you something.
- [54:48]
B
I.
- [54:48]
A
When it comes to menstruation, I am pro in romance that, like, I want characters who menstruate to talk about it.
- [54:58]
B
We're really down the hole.
- [54:59]
A
I'm going to. No, I'm going to make this. I'm going to make this one quick.
- [55:02]
B
Right.
- [55:02]
A
Like, I really do. I Think, like, I am always really appreciative of people who are like, you know what? I had cramps. And it, like, right. Like. Or just like, it can be such a.
- [55:12]
B
There is a terrific book where it's done great. And that is Lauren Rose, the Club.
- [55:18]
A
Oh, yeah, you've talked about this. There's a Jenny Holiday, the prequel novella to the Bridesmaids trilogy. I can't remember the name of it right now. She, like, suffers from really debilitating cramps. And the hero's just great about being like, let me take care of that for you. And I always find myself just, like, really grateful for, like, the mention that this is, you know, something that can really be a part of something that is a part of your life.
- [55:49]
B
Right.
- [55:49]
A
And sometimes it's really manageable, and sometimes it's not or whatever.
- [55:52]
B
Right.
- [55:53]
A
And so I am. For this, I'm always just great. I'm like, this is great. Give it to me more. Until or unless the period products come into play during a sex scene, which I don't want. I've read a couple books where he, like. Like, where he takes it out, Takes it out. And I'm just like, you know what?
- [56:12]
B
Too real. Too real.
- [56:13]
A
Too real. I just want everyone to be able. And, you know, those characters thought it was sexy.
- [56:19]
B
I'm not saying that, like, see now, okay? But also interestingly so you just said that we did not prep this. Everybody. I. I will seed that. However, you know what? I don't have a problem with him leaving to take a condom off.
- [56:36]
A
Correct. But that's what everybody. Just go take care of your business and then come back.
- [56:41]
B
Oh, you mean. Do you mean, like, him. You mean him getting involved in that business?
- [56:45]
A
I don't want him involved in that business.
- [56:46]
B
Like, I'm taking it out. There were heroin. Who took a condom away, like, to throw it out? I would be like, absolutely not. Oh, that's right.
- [56:53]
A
So I just feel like.
- [56:54]
B
Right, excellent point.
- [56:55]
A
Yeah.
- [56:55]
B
You tie to your own business.
- [56:57]
A
Correct.
- [56:58]
B
Correct.
- [57:00]
A
You know what I think is the other thing? I think part of the reason I am saying that is it's what's really interesting about it. And I think maybe I've read it in two books. So I'm not saying this is like a hard and fast thing that's happening all the time. It's not like spitting.
- [57:12]
B
My God.
- [57:13]
A
But the one time I read it, I thought, this isn't actually character work.
- [57:20]
B
I thought. I felt like it was shock value.
- [57:23]
A
Right? Like, to shock the reader, maybe. Like, look at how edgy I am.
- [57:28]
B
Well, I mean, it is a famous moment in. Not to bring it back to 50.
- [57:32]
A
Shades, but 50 Shades, which I've repressed.
- [57:35]
B
Interestingly, it's a famous moment in fifty Shades. And I always felt like it was the only moment in fifty Shades that actually does make you think of Twilight. Like, it feels like the moment of her really nodding to, like, vampirism.
- [57:49]
A
Yeah. Now, meanwhile, I want to shout out that we have followers. I'm not going to name names because, you know, but like, one of them is very, like, she's like, I want lothair drinking out of a diva cup. And I support you. So do I. I support you. But I. I mean, I don't.
- [58:05]
B
I don't. I mean, I don't know that I want it out of a diva cup, but I do feel like vampire. When. When a vampire is in a relationship with a human. That is a. Like. Like, for me, that's Chekhov's gun.
- [58:19]
A
Sure. I'm sorry. Here we are, everybody. Here we are. Okay, should I, like, take.
- [58:24]
B
I'm gonna get banned. I.
- [58:28]
A
You know what? I'm gonna be like, mom, don't listen to that episode. You guys, listen. This is terrible. My mother. Listen. Remember like a couple episodes ago when I was like. At the very end. It's fine. Where I was like, there's this thing we say in my family, but don't worry, my mom's not gonna listen to it. It's like an hour into this episode and we'd, like, start off with something really dirty. My mom listed the whole episode and then told my brother about it. And I was like, oh, hi, mom.
- [58:49]
B
Hi, Mom.
- [58:51]
A
Okay, there's no way she made it past vampires drinking out of a diva cup. Although she might not know what a diva cup is, so maybe she did. Okay. Anyway, I think.
- [58:59]
B
I think most moms know what a diva cup is.
- [59:03]
A
Please. My 78 year old mother does not know what a diva cup.
- [59:06]
B
You don't think they. You don't think. I don't know. She's pretty cool. She listens to us.
- [59:10]
A
Okay. Yeah, but she does not know. Okay, I'm gonna.
- [59:14]
B
If she knows, how do we test? Ask your brother to ask her.
- [59:17]
A
I'll be like, do you think mom knows what a diva cup is? No.
- [59:20]
B
And your brother will turn into ass.
- [59:23]
A
He doesn't know either. He doesn't know either. It's fine. He doesn't know either. None of them know.
- [59:29]
B
Okay.
- [59:30]
A
This is one. I don't want it in books, but I was thinking it's really funny and Actually, I have a new theory about why small town romance exists. After thinking about this.
- [59:39]
B
Ready? Interesting. About to drop a real lesson deep in an hour in.
- [59:46]
A
I think small town romance exists because romance authors know that you can't talk about commuting. You can't talk about commuting. You can't put commuting in a book.
- [60:01]
B
No. Wait, is this why no books are set in, like, LA, NY? No one's ever on a subway.
- [60:08]
A
No one is ever on the subway.
- [60:11]
B
Or on the 101.
- [60:13]
A
No.
- [60:14]
B
I'm like, so sorry, La. I don't know your numbers. I know you have a system, but I don't understand it. No.
- [60:19]
A
And so I was thinking about it because I was like, so people call an Uber, which I just think is nice. No one's ever drinking and driving in romance, which is great.
- [60:28]
B
Oh, no, that's really nice.
- [60:30]
A
That's a.
- [60:30]
B
That's another thing that our great, great romance did not.
- [60:33]
A
Right. Or Right. We didn't have it. Or like, people drove around in limos. I remember once listening to Molly o' Keefe say, you know what? Like, the only reason limos exist is so people can, like, have sex in them. I was like, true. Empirically true. But I did. I was thinking, like, no one is ever like, commuting even to like, talk about, like, oh, it's such a rough commute today. I spent an hour, you know, on the Kennedy or whatever. Doesn't happen.
- [60:59]
B
That's really interesting because now that you say that, whenever characters get home. So. Okay, I'm. I have recently read a book where a character like, you know, they work a really long shift at like, the hospital or wherever and then they have to get home, but it's just elided. And you're right. Why do. So romance. Romance writers know this.
- [61:24]
A
Yes.
- [61:24]
B
Empirically.
- [61:25]
A
Empirically, I think they know. Nobody wants to.
- [61:27]
B
Nobody can't waste that time.
- [61:29]
A
Yeah. So it's only like sexy. Sexy car rides or. Right. You can't waste that time. But I do.
- [61:35]
B
I'm like, sexy car rides. Yeah. If you're in a car, sex is on.
- [61:39]
A
Sure. Right. Of some kind. It's going to be sexy.
- [61:42]
B
You can thank historical for that. That's romance.
- [61:45]
A
That's carriages. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. And I just thought, like, this is again, like we were talking about. I think I was. It was on my list. But I think it ties back into, like, what's the fantasy of romance?
- [61:57]
B
So it's not cars, it's just commuting.
- [61:59]
A
Because I. It's they're never on the subway either. Right. They're not on, like, the metra. They're not.
- [62:05]
B
No, no.
- [62:06]
A
Right. They're not.
- [62:07]
B
I don't think. I truly don't think I have ever read a romance novel where characters are on transit.
- [62:13]
A
A bus. Right. Nothing.
- [62:16]
B
You know what? Secret History of the Pink Carnation begins with the contemporary heroine on the tube, I think.
- [62:24]
A
Yeah, but the tube's different. It's sexy. I don't know why. It just is.
- [62:30]
B
American commuting infrastructure in the United States is not sexy.
- [62:35]
A
No.
- [62:36]
B
Listen. What a surprise.
- [62:37]
A
And. But that's. And then I thought, this is why small town romance exists, because they can just walk home. Sure.
- [62:43]
B
And then meet 12 different kooky characters.
- [62:46]
A
Along the way on the way who.
- [62:48]
B
Are all going to get their own book.
- [62:49]
A
Yeah. On my list. It's just said traffic. There is no never traffic. There's never traffic.
- [62:56]
B
Because you know what? Because in a romance, if you're in traffic, you need a character. Your partner, potential partner, had better be able to get you the. Out of that traffic. You know what I want? Here's what it is. It's like Ocean's what if it. No, it's Italian Job. That's the romance vibe, where, like, she's in traffic and then, like, her partner is like a hacker and hacks into the system and gets her all green lights to get home to her fast.
- [63:27]
A
You know, a book that does this.
- [63:29]
B
You can all have that.
- [63:29]
A
Yeah.
- [63:30]
B
Gift from me to you. I want a hacker romance.
- [63:35]
A
I said earlier that I didn't want to read Kristen Ashley talking about interiors, and I don't. But in a book called Ride Steady, she. Her car breaks down on the side of the road.
- [63:44]
B
You do want to read Kristen Ashley all the time, though.
- [63:46]
A
Her car breaks down on the side of the road and, like, hot motorcycle guy, like, is the only one who stops and helps her.
- [63:52]
B
That's. I mean, there's. There's a great Bella Andre book that begins that way. She drives herself into a ditch and he comes and saves her.
- [63:58]
A
Perfect.
- [63:59]
B
These are fine. Listen, that's Kara's character.
- [64:02]
A
Exactly. We're going to do that in season eight. It's on the list. So, yeah.
- [64:07]
B
Car is parentheses, not Pixar.
- [64:10]
A
So just like, there's no. Women are never doing chores. No one is ever stuck in church traffic.
- [64:15]
B
The f. The true fantasy.
- [64:17]
A
Yeah, no kidding, right?
- [64:18]
B
The true fantasy.
- [64:19]
A
The true fantasy.
- [64:21]
B
All right, well, hit us up with those, because I would. I would be interested in a book that had the subway in it, potentially Just for the experience. I'll be that frog in that water. Oh, no. You know what? In Vi Keelin and Penelope Ward.
- [64:35]
A
Oh, you love that book.
- [64:37]
B
I love the. I mean, I love this book because it is a perfect example of how absolutely unhinged romance can get. And we'll still read it and love it. Like, we're just like, oh, yeah, that totally checks out in stuck up. So stuck up suit. It begins with her on the subway on the commute. And he is on his phone and he is like, chewing somebody out on his phone. And then he drops. He accidentally, like, leaves his phone on the subway.
- [65:10]
A
Oh, it's like that you told.
- [65:11]
B
Talked about. Then she's. Well, you all know that, like my whole. Like, if every single book in the world had some sort of mistaken identity or like, mysterious, like, you don't know who I am. But we like.
- [65:23]
A
Right.
- [65:25]
B
That would be like. I would. I can never get tired of this as a trope. And so she, like, basically, like, fucks with him by, like, using his phone to, like, get back at him. And it's great. Like, it's great. But it does start on the subway. But a good example of the train is. How is the. Is the meat cute?
- [65:46]
A
All right, Sarah, I'm gonna say one more.
- [65:48]
B
These are all good.
- [65:48]
A
I'm gonna say one more. I do. Do you have more or.
- [65:51]
B
I don't.
- [65:52]
A
Okay.
- [65:52]
B
Because I'm so easy. Everybody.
- [65:54]
A
Sure. You just love it all.
- [65:55]
B
I really do. I think what's interesting is here's my toxic trait.
- [66:00]
A
How about.
- [66:00]
B
This is the moment I hear something and I'm like, that sounds wacky. Like, unhinged. I'm like, wait, A sentient door is the hero? Yeah.
- [66:13]
A
Okay.
- [66:14]
B
I'm in, like, I mean, Morning glory milking farm. Absolutely. I immediately downloaded that book. And that is the problem with me. But also, listen, the joy I bring to the world is. Let me tell you about this weird book I read.
- [66:32]
A
I never want to ever, ever, ever. And I really mean this. Read any time where people. At our farmers market. I will just skip that whole chapter. Sorry.
- [66:48]
B
This is obviously not an opinion I share because I love a Chef Romance more than I love most things. And a chef. The promise of the premise of a Chef romance is these two dummies are going to be at a farmer's market and.
- [67:05]
A
God, so tedious.
- [67:06]
B
And here's what I like the best. I like it the most when they're at.
- [67:10]
A
Listen, I put this one on for you.
- [67:12]
B
Really? I know. And now I'm gonna bore you.
- [67:14]
A
No no, just check out.
- [67:16]
B
I'll. I'll give you a handful when you can come back in. My favorite is when, like, he's a Michelin star chef or whatever, and his partner, like, thinks that he's, like, grumpy and, like, irritable and terrible. But they happen to, like, find themselves at the Union Square Holiday Market, the Union Square Farmers Market in New York City. And all of a sudden, like, all the vendors at the holiday. Why do I keep saying holiday? All the vendors at the farmer's market are, like, friendly with him and, like, he's charming to all of them. And it's the first moment that the love interest finds that the hero is, you know, not necessarily as grumpy as he seems. Sure, he's buying zucchini and whatever, ready to make a whole. Upend his entire menu because he's so inspired by this person he's with.
- [68:14]
A
What was that book you liked with, like, the food truck, which I actually ended up liking. There's a scene where they go to the farmer's market, and I think I skipped the whole chapter. I was like, whatever.
- [68:21]
B
Yeah, it's called the opposite of you. And he does. In fact, he is so obsessed with her. He is so grumpy and terrible to her, and he is so obsessed with her that he literally upends his whole menu to, like, recreate a menu that is inspired by her food truck. It's great. And that's. There's also a Louisa Edwards book that has a farmer's market scene, and it is terrific. And I will put that in show notes because there are many chef books from Louisa that I love. Love.
- [68:47]
A
I. I'm just telling everybody, I, I listen, you go, I saw something. I don't know. It's on social media. It was like, threads or blue sky and someone's like, you know what? You can really buy all the food you need at a farmer's market. And I was like, well, I guess I'm starving. Then off. Like, you could not even imagine how annoyed I was.
- [69:05]
B
Also, everybody.
- [69:07]
A
You could not.
- [69:08]
B
I mean, Sarah, farmers markets are great because small farms are good. Corporations have not yet in. Embedded themselves in, like, the small Amish farm that brings the eggs to your farmer's market. So, you know, I get my eggs from everybody.
- [69:27]
A
I don't know.
- [69:28]
B
Disgusting eggs don't come from. My eggs don't come from chickens. The other day there was some discussion on one of our text threads. Like, somebody on one of our text threads mentioned that their neighbors had had chickens, and Jen immediately got in and was. Jennifer cannot abide.
- [69:46]
A
Yeah.
- [69:47]
B
People in cities having chickens, which, I mean, there are some problems with that. But the.
- [69:53]
A
I don't know anything about that. Simply not my business.
- [69:56]
B
No, you don't want to know where your eggs come from. They come from the cooler at Costco.
- [70:01]
A
They come from the Instacart driver.
- [70:02]
B
When they come in, you're like, I think it's cute that I went. That you think I go to Costco.
- [70:07]
A
I would never step it in a grocery store. Sarah. What. What a shocking dereliction of duty.
- [70:13]
B
One time Jen sent me a text. Text and she was like, what should I get to eat quick tonight? And I gave her like three. Three ideas. And she was like, absolutely not.
- [70:22]
A
It's like, I don't know what I was thinking. I just had like a real moment of idiocy. All right, so anyway, I put that one on the list for you, Sarah, because I was like, well, well, you.
- [70:32]
B
Know that I am always. Listen, here's my thing. This is my great joy in life, is when people come to me and they say, and you must love this too, and they say, I don't read romance novels. Like, where should I start?
- [70:43]
A
Right.
- [70:43]
B
Oh, yeah, the best. That's a great question. But what I really love is when a romance reader comes to me and says, I don't like blank. What should I read? What should I read? Because I feel like, yeah, that's.
- [70:58]
A
That's challenge accepting.
- [70:59]
B
Being the frog in the boiling water makes it much easier. We should do that. You all should send us, like, we should. We should post to our Instagram or whatever a form where you can say to us like, I don't like, fill in the blank.
- [71:15]
A
Yeah, that'd be really funny.
- [71:16]
B
What's your kombucha gif? And maybe we'll do an episode next season. Or maybe. Yeah, or maybe like over the. We'll do an episode or maybe like over the break, we'll post some Instagram stories and. And answer some of them. So head to our Instagram, which is faded mates.net. no, which is instagram.com fadema mates pod.
- [71:38]
A
Can you believe this is the end of season seven? Sarah? Now remember, everybody, we're going to be.
- [71:43]
B
Off for the next two weeks.
- [71:44]
A
We have been. We're gonna be off for the next two weeks. Although, who knows? Sometimes Eric has plans and things drop into the feed and we enjoy that's going on. But they will be reruns, if you know what that word means. Okay, so we are going to be back for Season 8, starting in September.
- [72:03]
B
We're very excited. We're still here with you.
- [72:05]
A
We're here.
- [72:06]
B
We're here with you for as long as you're here with us. How about that? But Jen, personally, my friend, look at us. Seven seasons still on our bullshit.
- [72:21]
A
But this was a fun one. I told you it would be.
- [72:23]
B
It was. It was a really fun one. I apologize if we insulted anybody and I do hope that if any McKinnon mechanics are listening, that you had a great time. We are Fated Mates and I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. You can find us every Wednesday except for the next two Wednesdays at fatedmates.net or wherever you get your podcasts. We are right now booking ads through almost winter. So if you are thinking about running ads ads, you can send an email to ericadsa mates.net and he will send you the information. But heads up, our ad slots are through. The fall are getting tight.
- [73:05]
A
There's all sorts of cool stuff on the website, especially collections, which Eric has been updating. There's some really fun new ones. So if in the next two weeks you're like, what can I read? That's a good place for you to go.
- [73:17]
B
We're on Instagram and Threads as Faded Mates pod. We're also on Blue sky as Fated Mates. You can find us there, send us messages. We do check those messages, though, not like constantly. We try to respond when you are there. We also have a Patreon where people hang out and talk about romance every day on our private Discord. If you want to join the Patreon or learn more, you can go to patreon.com fatedmates what else? Oh, the fall is coming and we are raising money for Virginia to make sure that we hold the state legislature in Virginia and do what we can to make sure that it remains as blue as it possibly can be. You can learn more about that@faded mates.net fadedstates and we'll also be ramping other things up through the fall in advance of elections day, so stick with us for that. Otherwise, have a great two weeks everybody. We hope you're going to read something amazing. Please let us know on Instagram or Threads or Blue sky what your kombucha gif romance thing is and maybe we'll recommend some books over the next few weeks. We love you.
- [74:38]
A
Sam.