RERUN: S04.17: Roy Kent Redux

Summary

Fated Mates – Romance Books for Novel People

RERUN: S04.17: Roy Kent Redux

Date: July 31, 2026
Hosts: Sarah MacLean (author) and Jennifer Prokop (critic)
Production: Eric Mortensen
Special Theme: Revisiting Roy Kent’s journey and Ted Lasso S2 through a romance novel lens, with a robust focus on character development, anti-patriarchy themes, and the aftermath of the HEA (Happily Ever After).

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Episode Overview

This New Year’s Eve episode continues a tradition for Fated Mates, where Sarah and Jen revisit beloved characters and shows through a romance reader's lens. The focus is on Roy Kent from Ted Lasso—his arc in season two—and the broader show’s relationship to romance genre concepts, feminist undertones, and the after-effects of HEA. The discussion moves episode-by-episode, highlighting themes of self-worth, masculinity, friendship, grief, and the nuanced dynamics between Roy and Keely, along with side discussions on Nate, Ted, and the ensemble cast.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ted Lasso—A Romance Reader’s Dream

• Sarah and Jen were early Ted Lasso adopters (“We love Ted Lasso before others did. That’s... it doesn’t matter.” [02:28])
• Binge-watching vs. weekly release: Bingeing makes the show's character arcs and nuances clearer and more enjoyable ([03:18])
• The show is lauded for smart, anti-patriarchal writing that consistently undermines toxic masculinity—and every opportunity to do so is taken ([23:22], [23:24])

2. Roy Kent as a Romance Hero

• Roy as Archetypal Romance Lead: Gruff exterior, gold heart, passionate but emotionally articulate, fiercely supportive
  - “Roy Kent is romance novel telling you, you deserve better.” (Sarah, [26:52])
• Roy & Keely’s Relationship:
  • Explored deeply through its ups, downs, and “after the HEA” moments
  • “If you are lucky enough to have Roy Kent love you, he is… a full-on romance hero.” (Sarah, [43:25])
• Impact on Team: Roy’s coaching of girls’ soccer and return to Richmond underscore his nurturing, protective traits ([21:01])

Notable Quote

"Don't you dare settle for fine."
(Roy, [26:48])
A rallying cry for self-worth, cited as a romance-novel-worthy philosophy.

3. Thematic Episode Breakdowns

• Ep 1: Roy’s aimlessness post-retirement, Keely’s support, and the mantra of not settling ([17:17], [26:13])
• Ep 2 (“Masturbation Episode”):
  • Roy’s vulnerability turning Keely on (him crying at his press conference), and Keely’s sexual agency
  • Roy explores sports commentary—grief over lost identity but eventual triumph; “What if they think I’m shit?”—touches on male vulnerability ([30:16])
• Ep 3: Uncle Roy’s parenting and the subversion of ‘bad uncle’ tropes ([37:32])
• Ep 4 (Christmas): Roy knocks on posh doors with Keely and Phoebe, again the ultimate romance gesture ([43:17]); show’s “found family” themes; multiple romcom nods ([43:25])
• Ep 5 (Rom Communism): Ted’s “It will all work out, though maybe not as you hope”—textbook romance genre promise ([48:20]); Roy’s Notting Hill-style dash back to Richmond ([55:28])
• Ep 6: Ted’s panic attacks, contrasts between emotional openness (Ted) and emotional clarity (Roy) ([58:35])
• Ep 7/Onwards:
  • Roy and Keely navigate needing space—“after the HEA” is hard work, not just bliss ([62:47])
  • Jamie’s emotional crisis and Roy’s compassionate hug—“Show me how the patriarchy hurts men in one TV minute, this would be it.” (Jennifer, [78:54])
  • Roy’s (and supporting characters’) steadfast pursuit of growth, support, and “doing better”.

4. Ensemble Dynamics and Supporting Cast

• Isaac’s Arc:
  • Grows into team leader; “Isaac is the leader now. I love it.” (Sarah, [72:52])
  • Team rituals like the sacred Isaac haircut symbolize trust, community, and masculinity divorced from toxicity ([69:36])
• Richness of Friendships:
  • The show’s friendships (Keely/Rebecca, Ted/Beard) are as essential as the romances ([107:16])
• Nate’s Downfall:
  • Tragic arc of mentorship misread as neglect; explores how work families can fracture ([50:39])

5. Romance, Grief, and Growth

• The show is presented as “after the HEA”: Roy and Keely must continually renegotiate boundaries, needs, and professional aspirations
• Grief—personal (Ted’s dad, Rebecca’s father, Roy grieving soccer), collective (team’s losses)—is an overarching season theme
• Making space for one another (literally and figuratively) is a repeated motif: “The best thing I can do in that situation is give him space...I should trust him to do what’s best.” (Jamie, [65:49])
• The balancing act of independent ambition and partnership: “It’s a relationship between two people who are deeply skilled in their own lives and their own careers, who are independent people.” (Sarah, [102:12])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Romance Philosophy:

  “You deserve someone who makes you feel like you’ve been struck by fucking lightning.” (Roy, [26:39])

• Romance and the HEA Aftermath:

  “We like these men in our books, but if we lived with them, it would be too much.” (Sarah, [63:07])

• On Do Better:

  “I love that because… it’s that sort of be curious, not judgmental. It’s not like, hey, you suck. It’s just like, I think you can do better.” (Sarah, [68:25])

• On Grief & Vulnerability:

  “If you were like, show me how the patriarchy hurts men in one TV minute, this would be it.” (Jennifer, [78:54])

• Roy’s Summing Up:

  “Didn’t use a single picture with me in it, and it hurt my feeling.” (Roy, [97:17])

• Supportive Partnership:

  “You look powerful and gorgeous… Don’t you change a fucking thing.” (Roy, [100:45])

• On the Strength of Female Friendship:

  “If I could just claim one Sassy and one Keely in my life… they are perfect.” (Sarah, [108:40])

• Rom Communism Covenant:

  “Ted made us a promise in that moment, like, it is all gonna be okay. It will work out.” (Sarah, [48:38])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:00-15:00 – Holiday banter, Doc Martens, used bookstore gifts, romance archive stories
• 15:18 – Start of in-depth Ted Lasso S2 / Roy Kent arc discussion
• 26:13-27:30 – Roy & Keely’s double date: “Don’t settle for fine.”
• 28:03 – “The masturbation episode” (Keely is turned on by Roy’s vulnerability)
• 41:09-44:45 – Christmas episode and the “sexy Christmas” arc
• 48:14-48:38 – Ted’s “dark forest” promise/romance genre promise
• 55:35-56:43 – Roy’s “Notting Hill” dash back to Richmond
• 65:49-66:08 – Jamie’s realization about trust and space; Roy’s learning
• 78:04-78:54 – Locker-room confrontation and hug between Roy and Jamie
• 100:45-101:14 – Roy’s support of Keely’s new opportunity
• 108:32-109:02 – Keely/Rebeccca friendship affirmed post-funeral

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Organizational Structure and Flow

• Discussion moves episode by episode, weaving in overarching themes
• Sidebars on haircuts, Christmas, banter, and classic sitcoms (Cheers, Golden Girls) illuminate Ted Lasso’s pop culture lineage and deep characterization
• The hosts frequently relate show moments back to romance novel tropes, writing craft, and the greater goals of the romance community (empowerment, “fight the patriarchy”, emotional literacy)

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Additional Highlights

• Callback to Previous Ep: Listeners encouraged to revisit the earlier Roy Kent/romance hero discussion
• Listener Interactions: Moments of gratitude for listeners who share romance treasures (e.g., “Alice” in Canada, [13:50])
• Romance Genre Trailblazers: Continuation of Fated Mates’ role as an archive and amplifier for romance history (e.g., requests for obscure book identification, celebration of vintage finds)

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Final Thoughts and Takeaways

• Roy & Keely = Modern Romance Blueprint: Their relationship models healthy vulnerability, mutual growth, and support—post-HEA messiness included
• Show’s Promise (and Caution): Ted Lasso's narrative affirms “it will all work out,” but with the caveat that the outcome may surprise; the hosts’ slight anxiety over whether Roy and Keely’s union will be honored in future seasons
• Friendship as Romance: The show’s friendships receive almost equal weight as its romantic pairings
• Romance as Resistance: The continual lifting up of characters, challenge to toxic norms, and validation of feelings embolden both readers and viewers to expect more from both art and life

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Closing Note

“Let them be a model for how we should all be with each other in relationships. Seriously, let them be good for each other.”
(Sarah, [106:05])

Next Up: Passion by Lisa Valdez read-along reminder, plus ongoing celebration of romance trailblazers.

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For more show notes, links, and book mentions:
Visit fatedmates.net, follow @fatedmates on Twitter, or @fatedmatespod on Instagram.

Transcript

[Sarah Maclean]

Happy New Year.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Happy New Year, Sarah.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's our New Year's Eve episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know it's like a. A tradition that started without us really realizing it was tradition, but here we are.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know. The first year, it was our pegging episode, and we just thought it was just funny. It could not be contained.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then our next second New Year's was Jessica with many, many of our friends. And now it's just the two of us.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, it's a simpler time.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know. We're socially distancing, even in podcast land.

[Jennifer Prokop]

God.

[Sarah Maclean]

And we're doing Roy Kent redux.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, I guess we should say, welcome to fated mates, everybody. I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader. Roy Kent, lover, editor, whatever. That's what I am.

[Sarah Maclean]

I'm Sarah Maclean. I read romance novels, I write romance novels, and I really like Roy Kent. I really do. I mean, this season, season two, there was a lot more to think about.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Roy.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes. I also decided this season that I really like Isaac.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, I listen. Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Also, like, fully would leave my husband for Rebecca. So here we are. It was a big year for me. I was like, oh, I feel feelings for Hannah Waddingham.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Who doesn't, though? It's true. I was thinking about this. You and I and Sophia Benoit talked about Roy Kent and Ted Lasso. Kind of before Ted Lasso was Ted Lasso.

[Sarah Maclean]

Because before Ted Lasso was cool. Yeah. I mean, I hate to be that

[Jennifer Prokop]

way, but you guys, we were. We were riding the Ted Lasso train.

[Eric Mortensen]

Really?

[Jennifer Prokop]

We were.

[Sarah Maclean]

We were. We were ahead of the curve.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We have four runners, but we were

[Sarah Maclean]

wearing our Doc Martens and our flannel

[Jennifer Prokop]

and listening Doc Martens are back. It's so weird. I mean, maybe they were never gone, but they are big.

[Sarah Maclean]

My daughter, my 8 year old, got a pair of silver docs with hearts on them for Christmas from her aunt. And I am very jealous. Nice.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, this little. Little romance has some. And then Mr. Reed's romance bought some. He wears them to work. But I was like, look at you wearing dag marks on your shoes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Oh, that's pretty badass. So cute. Look at that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So anyway, we.

[Sarah Maclean]

We love Ted Lasso before others did. And that's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It doesn't matter.

[Sarah Maclean]

Ted Lasso. Look, we're not tracking it or anything. I mean, it's not in our calendar or anything.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know what, though? Here's the other thing that was really interesting for me. Just generally this time around is okay. Season one, I watched with Mr. Reid's romance, and we watched it like in a day or two. Right. Like we just binged it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Sure.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But season two, they released episode by episode, so.

[Sarah Maclean]

That's right. Because you didn't watch it. We watched it episode by episode. And then I was like, dad, you gotta read this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Wasn't season one all at once though. No. Oh, okay. So I watched it. I binge watched season one, season two, I watched Episode. Episode. But I found it to be a very different and enjoyable experience to watch it this time around. Pretty much straight through again.

[Sarah Maclean]

Listen, I felt the exact same way. That's so interesting that you say that. I much preferred it as a binge. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know, like, is that because TV is just teaching us that now to binge?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know. I think in this case, when you're tracking character development, it really is more rewarding to get all of the text it once.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Whereas it was so easy to forget like those little pieces over eight or 10 weeks. So I just think it's a different experience too when you're.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well. And also there is. When you watch it on the binge, especially after having, watching. Having watched it week by week on the second watch, you can sort of appreciate some of the like, more nuanced characterization stuff that was going on over the course of the season with everyone. Like, I'm thinking about Nate and Sam and suddenly you have these moments where you're like, oh, I see what's happening. Like there was. This has nothing to do with Roy Kemp. But there is a very clear thread of the television show Cheers through the entire season.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

That like involves all sorts of little nods to Cheers, including like Ted walks into a room. The first time Ted walks into a room during the whole season, everyone goes Ted the way they go Norm. And then Sam and Rebecca are of course, this. And then there is a sort of moment where Ted says, oh, you're that's. You're my first favorite Sam and Rebecca, you know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then there's like a moment where the guy who plays Norm, whose name usually I get, George Wendt, thank you. Is there's a signed picture of him on the wall of the halal shop. Uh huh.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Cheers plays a very important part in a personal pop culture reference that I share with my brother Eric, who's on the podcast last time.

[Sarah Maclean]

Eric, friend of the pod.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Friend of the pod. Eric, who was on last time we talked about Ted Lesso. And so it's like we are big Cheers watchers in my family and Eric in particular.

[Sarah Maclean]

Cheers is great. And Holds up.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, it does.

[Sarah Maclean]

Holds up.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, absolutely. So there is this one. There's this one scene where it's with Norm and Cliff, right? And Cliff is talking about some new girlfriend he has or whatever. And everyone is like, what's your mom think about this? And he's like, I don't know. What are you supposed to do when the woman you love most in the world meets the love of your life? And Norm's like, which one's which? You know, because nobody knows, right? Like, he's such a mama's boy. So at that exact moment, Clifford's mother, like, comes into the bar and says to him, says to him, you know, Clifford, you left your shower cap on the floor, and so you're gonna have to wear it all day. And she sticks a shower cap on her, on his head and storms out of the bar, right? And across the bar, Frasier says to Lilith, he says, I'm starting to understand that Cliff is heroically well adjusted.

[Sarah Maclean]

And that's a great line.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, I have this, like, as a video clip. I will put a link to it. It's illegal, of course, but every time something goes, like, sideways in the family, Eric and I will say, you're heroically well adjusted. It's like this inner mantra, right? Like, listen, I love that. And after the holidays,

[Sarah Maclean]

yeah, it's like Colin from. From Ted Lasso. I'm a strong and capable man. Yes, exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's like, you have to have your mantra. And I think that. So that Cheers reference.

[Sarah Maclean]

We didn't check in about the holidays, but how was it? Tell everybody what Mr. Romance gave you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You guys, it's in. It's happening right now. So I had to change my office round. I was in little Romance's room, but now he's back from college.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's feels very, you know, home stuttery, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

So I have a new, like, office space downstairs. It's great, but it's really, like, open. It's not in a closed room. And so I was telling Mr. Reeves romance, I was like, well, the only problem with that is when I'm recording, it needs to be quiet. Like, you can't come in, and out there can't be people in the kitchen. So he got me this thing called a busy box. And it's like a light and you can change the sign. So I put in the one that says recording and it's upstairs. And then when I'm recording, I can turn it on so no one will come downstairs and bother me.

[Sarah Maclean]

Listen, this is true love. I Know this is the nicest present I've ever heard of. From a husband to a wife. I know a person who just understands what's important to you and wants you to live your best life.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Life.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's so sweet you want to hang out with your weird friend and talk about your little books. I support you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Just tell me so I can avoid it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's really cute. So right now the busy box is on.

[Sarah Maclean]

It says recording adorbs I a plus on this as a gift.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'll put a link and show them

[Sarah Maclean]

everybody to a partner who maybe you

[Jennifer Prokop]

want one for your kids.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Leave me alone.

[Sarah Maclean]

Shut up. Well, can I tell you what my in laws bought me?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

This is really sweet. So my in laws live in a place called Paso Robles, California. I know where that is. On the central coast. It's like wine. It's central coast wine country. It's right near. Every time I go there, I make them take me to Hearst Castle and I will say my in laws are extremely long suffering and like always take me to Hearst Castle. Even though I think they're very tired of like sitting by the pool and like staring at the Roman baths. Anyway, Hearst Castle is super cool. You should totally go there Anyway. But in Paso there is a used bookstore called Spare time Books. And it is like a romance novel reader's dream because it is just floor to ceiling used paperbacks of all different genres. But like many, many, many, many romance novels and old and awesome. And Eric suggested to them, they were like, what do we get Sarah? You know, like they are always. They want to get you a nice gift. A gift that like you know. Right, sure, you'll love. And Eric was like okay, you guys are going to think this is weird, but you should really go in there and you should see if you can find yourself find any like first edition romance novels from the 80s. And he gave them a list of our trailblazers and he was like especially these people. And so they came back. So they sent me a box of individually wrapped paperback used books from Spare Time. Used books in Paso Robles, California. And let me tell you something cool. And we will put this. Maybe we can put this like in show notes or something. Or maybe it's the image right now for banter. I guess we're bantering now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We're bantering.

[Sarah Maclean]

Spare Time used bookstore has a punch card which is what I've always thought bookstores should have have a punch card. Every $10 you spend at this used bookstore, you punch, you get a punch and Then when you get 10, you get an extra $10.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Nice.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know. So anyway, thanks to used bookstores around the country. Thanks especially to spare time for my collection of redacted author name used books. Because the main person is a trailblazer who we have not run yet. Okay, well, okay, that's pretty great. Oh, also, I have a request, and maybe you'll know this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah Maclean]

My sister, who was here for Christmas, we were talking about, I put an Irish Johansson, an old original first edition Iris Johansson, into her stocking because she was a very, very big Irish Johansson fan when we were growing up. And she has a question for you, Jennifer, and for our many listeners, which is back in the day, writing as Stephanie James, Jane Ann Krentz wrote a category which my sister remembers vaguely as this. The heroine is driving, like a cherry red convertible down a highway. The hero, and it breaks down and the hero, who is a long haul trucker, pulls over to help her. And she is, like, kind of disdainful of the profession of long haul truckering, but he, like, gets her car working and like, they basically have, like, Krentz style banter. Stephanie James style.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, right, right, right.

[Sarah Maclean]

She, of course, is headed to her new job as the executive assistant to the head of a long haul trucking company, of course, who happened to have to drive the big rig for a little while down the road. So this is how my sister remembers this book. She fully believes it was a Stephanie James novel. That is your task.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So try and find it. Okay.

[Sarah Maclean]

Fade it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Faded.

[Sarah Maclean]

Magnificent Firebirds unite.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Assembled. Can I shout out one more amazing thing that happened? I was a listener of ours reached out to me. Her name's Alice. She lives in. Alice. She lives in Canada. And she was like, hi, Canada. I found essentially, like these Tupperware containers I packed up full of old romance novels in the 90s. Do you want them?

[Sarah Maclean]

Alice, why did you reach out to Jen and not me?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Because you're moving Sarah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Oh.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Anyway, right? I don't know. Cause. Cause sometimes people, you're like Sarah McQueen more than me. No, you're just more intimidating. They feel like they can't be always

[Sarah Maclean]

much nicer to Jen than me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You can listen if you're like, this is kind of really for Sarah, but I'm too intimidated. Also, let me know. So the first pass is she sent me these photos. And I. I was like, okay, first pass, send me. Cause I think it's gonna have to happen in stages. Send me the historicals. So it's a bunch of like Alice

[Sarah Maclean]

out there going through all These taking pictures of you.

[Eric Mortensen]

I know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm so excited.

[Sarah Maclean]

Alice, what can. Dude, can we send you a fated mates thing? Reach out to Jen. Tell us what we can send you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Here's the part that's really cool. So she was like, all I want is for someone to pay for the shipping. And I was like, of course. And so she told me what it would be, and I was like, well, what's your PayPal? And she was like, just donate it to Flatbush Cats in Brooklyn or to another place in la. And I chose Flatbush Cats, so it was pretty awesome.

[Sarah Maclean]

So I was like, alice, Alice the cat too good for this one. The cat's of Brooklyn. Thank you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know.

[Sarah Maclean]

You're great. We love you. Wait, so what's in the box? Jen, what's in the box?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, listen, carrying the lead here. Virginia Henley's. Amanda Quicks. Joanna Lindsay's. Julie Garwood's.

[Sarah Maclean]

Listen, I'm excited.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know. Me too.

[Sarah Maclean]

So, I mean, obviously, Alice, you may have sent them to Jen, but they're being shared. Oh, of course.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Obviously. And then some that just look like those real old school ones with, like, the, you know, like, the glittery covers and stuff.

[Sarah Maclean]

I'm for it. Those Kathryn Coulters. Big, gold, gilded Kathryn Coulter.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Connie Mason. Yeah. Constance o'.

[Sarah Maclean]

Banion.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, these are names I have not heard in a long time. So I'm super excited about it. So I love it. I will let everybody know when they arrive.

[Sarah Maclean]

All right, that's enough banter.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We've done it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Now talk through the window. It's gonna take hours for us to talk through season two of Roy Kent, because Roy and Keigh have, like, a. A nuanced, like, a relationship now, a beautiful arc.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's great. And Roy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think Roy also has. Oh, God, the show is so good.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, can I. Can I tell you something? I did not like on the second watch? And I don't care if this makes me. I just don't want to talk about Rebecca and Sam. He's too young.

[Sarah Maclean]

There, I said it. Listen, I'm with you. Look, empirically, I understand that these are two very attractive people who, like, should definitely bang it out, but the moment they said 21, my brain just went McCreeve, full McGreeve brain. I was like, no more.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I thought he was, like, 26.

[Sarah Maclean]

And I was gonna be like, get it, girl. And then. Oh, no, no, thank you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would just like us to pass over that.

[Sarah Maclean]

We'll pass right over it. I actually have a whole theory which I know that you don't care for, but we'll get to it at the end. And it is not about Sam. It is about Ted. Fair. Okay, so.

[Jennifer Prokop]

All right.

[Sarah Maclean]

Where do you want to begin?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I have. It hurt my feeling.

[Sarah Maclean]

Sorry, that's very late.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It hurt my feeling.

[Sarah Maclean]

I marked that to you. So what? So last time we did it episode by episode, which I think is the best way to do it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay. Fair. Okay.

[Sarah Maclean]

So. Because I think it's important we start. Okay, so this series, this arc, this season of or series, I think is what it's called of. Of Ted Lasso. The second season, for those of us who are in America, follows. So Ted Lasso is announced as a three. Are a three episode show. A three, three season show. So at the end of last season, we had, like, the great disappointment.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. They were relegated.

[Sarah Maclean]

They were relegated. Which actually seems extremely cool. And I. I mean, like, it does feel. It feels a lot like if American sports were like this, I would care more.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah Maclean]

To be honest, which I think somebody says in Ted Lasso, like, it's very cool. So. So anyway, they were relocated, relegated. It was very sad. We lost Jamie to Manchester City, and Ted and Rebecca kind of finally understand. Like, Rebecca comes clean and everybody's disappointed. And then Rebecca's like, I'm not firing you. You're staying. We're going to start over fresh next year. So we begin the season and they're like, in this endless string of ties.

[Jennifer Prokop]

String ties. Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then, as Eric likes. My Eric likes to point out, this show that was all about, like, kindness and the best in the world begins season two with the most baller move of all. Baller moves.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, there's basically one rule, right? Yeah. Well.

[Sarah Maclean]

And also, like, it's the best show. It's a show full of joy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then they take the most joyful character and they have him kill a dog right off the start with the

[Jennifer Prokop]

power of his hocker kick.

[Sarah Maclean]

Listen, football is death.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The part where he, like, wakes up

[Sarah Maclean]

in bed with two women and he's like, football is death. Danny Rojas, I love you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You are the best.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, I love every. I love so much about this season.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, wait, can I have a small little aside? I know you're not a big Marvel person, but you know Venom because of Tom Hardy.

[Sarah Maclean]

I do.

[Jennifer Prokop]

At the end of the Spider man movie, there's, like, a little preview of the next Venom movie.

[Eric Mortensen]

Ooh.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like a little. And you know who the bartender is who clearly is gonna be involved? The actor who plays Danny Rojas.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's Danny Rojas.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I was like, football is life. I said to my husband, I was like, it was Danny. And he's like, what are you talking about? I was like, you know, from Ted Lasso. And he was like, oh, that's who that was.

[Sarah Maclean]

Wait, so is the preview. Pause. Is the preview in the Spider man movie for Venom 3?

[Jennifer Prokop]

They have these little, like.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, I know, the little thing teasers or whatever. I've watched Marvel movies before.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, okay. Who knows?

[Sarah Maclean]

The end credits scene. But it, like, it's separate from Venom 2. It's like the next one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's like teasing some future Venom.

[Sarah Maclean]

Is Tom Hardy in it?

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So it's Tom Hardy sitting at a bar and Danny. I mean, bartender.

[Sarah Maclean]

Listen, it's not like Spider man needed any more ticket sales on its opening weekend, but, like, had I known that it might have gotten another one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I've been like, just like, sneak in to watch the last five minutes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Tom Hardy's and things. Here's what I want to know. Why does it say episode one, Roy Kent hair clips on my notebook?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, well, because Danny's hair and Jamie's hair, all of their little headbands, their slicked back.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, but that's not why it says that. I don't know. I don't know. For some. You guys, I don't know. I watched this literally right before the holiday, and then everything went out of my head. But it says quite clearly the very first note I have is Roy Kent hair clips.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I noticed a lot of interesting hairdos in this season, including when Isaac gives his haircut. We.

[Sarah Maclean]

No, we gotta say, we gotta. That's like a whole. There is. It is magnificent, this episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, I hope you started it at 7pm because it's not gonna be over till the stroll of midnight.

[Sarah Maclean]

Eric's like, oh, my God, you guys. Okay, so here's where we are. Just to recap. So that's the sort of broad thing. We're in a series of ties. They. The goal of the season is to get them back into the Premier League.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Promoted. That's what it's called.

[Sarah Maclean]

Promoted to the Premier League. So that's the sort of overarching, like, big picture arc of the series. Is, are they. Is Richmond going to get back into the Premier League? On top of it, we have Roy, who has left soccer because his knee is a bum knee. And so he's trying to figure out what he's doing. And so right now, he's coaching episode one. He's a coach of eight Year old soccer of an eight year old girls soccer team. And let me tell you, I mean, like, if that isn't the most. Again, if you needed any evidence, that's it. Exhibit A through Z. Roy Kent coaches girls soccer. He's obviously a romance hero. Should we say that this is a. If you are new to fated mates, we. You should probably go back and listen to Roy Kent. Is Roy Kent a romance hero, which we did last season.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, the answer, so obviously yes. Now it's just like. Let us, let us clarify and name the ways.

[Sarah Maclean]

Okay? He's the best. He's the best. He's like standing on the field screaming at these little girls who are just delighted by him.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, completely. Like, completely. Now I think the other thing that's sort of amazing about that whole arc though too, is that he will have nothing to do with Richmond anymore. Right? Like, he won't go to the bar and hang out with them. And Keely, of course, works for Richmond because she is like the director of PR marketing, but he will not, you know, have anything to do with it.

[Sarah Maclean]

So Ted is doing. Ted is leaving. Listen, part of what I love about this show, and I mean, I know you don't want to talk about Rebecca and Sam, but one of the things I really don't want to talk about is the beard episode. Because it enraged me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, I didn't even watch it.

[Sarah Maclean]

It enraged me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It doesn't exist. I didn't even watch it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Just pretend you watch it exist both times. Oh, I can't. I can't. It enraged me. But the point. So that's all I'll say about that. But what I will say is there is a reason for those of you out there who are like, I love the beard episode. Like my husband who love the beer episode. The beard episode. I don't understand. Sarah, what are you talking about? Here's what I'm talking about. Every, like, the writing on this show is so tight and so anti patriarchy. Right. Like so much. Every time they have a chance to take down toxic masculinity. They do.

[Jennifer Prokop]

They do.

[Sarah Maclean]

And the beard episode can't exist because of that. I will do a TED Talk later on that sometime. But the song. But the point is, is that so at the beginning of this, so Roy is teaching girls soccer. And then there is this real sense in this first episode of like, Roy is at sea. Yeah. And he is. And Keely can see it, but she doesn't know how to fix it. To fix it and to tackle it. And so she Keeps kind of like, coming at him with, like, you should do this, you should do that. Ted wants him to come to a Richmond game because, as we know, in the long game, Ted's long game is like, he knows exactly what Roy needs, right? In that way that, like, Ted often does know what people need. He's a good coach, you know, but there's. So one of the things that Ted is doing is every time, every game, he leaves Roy a ticket at will call. And it's always under the name of, like, a female. Like a woman singer, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it's great.

[Sarah Maclean]

So it's like Dolly parton and Reba McEntire.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And, you know, the other thing, though, that I thought was really interesting is one of the only. So obviously, Roy and Keeley are very happy. But the other place it shows us that he finds solace is with the yoga moms. What I call. Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

This is the episode one, right. He's avoiding Keely, and he's like, no, I have things. I have stuff. Stuff to do.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, right. So he's gonna go be with these yoga moms. And so, you know, they, like, watch reality TV show together. But the other big thing that happens in this episode is the double date, right?

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, which on the rewatch, I was like, I'm so surprised. This is the first episode. I thought it was. Me too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Absolutely felt the same way. Because it really sets up so much of what is important about the way Roy is relating to himself and to Keely and to other people.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. So Rebecca is dating some handsome but, like, dumb, kind of blowhard guy millionaire. And they. And she's, you know, and she and Keely are always together. Like, sort of like, do you like him? You know, Right? It's.

[Sarah Maclean]

Keely and Rebecca are in love. They're like. They are the love story of the season.

[Jennifer Prokop]

If you worked with your best friend, this is how it would feel. It's like, right? We've all seen it. And so she's sort of like, well, will you guys come on a double date with us just to see what it's like? And Roy just, like, drinks his way,

[Sarah Maclean]

and he's a huge. Her boyfriend is like. He's a huge Roy Kent fan, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

So it's kind of awkward and uncomfortable, but Roy is just, like, gonna do this good guy thing, and he just keeps drinking. But then on the way out afterwards, right? Like, they're kind of like, you know. You know, it's like, keely, what did you think? And, you know, and she's like, oh, I loved him. He was so nice. And then, you know, Roy was like, well, fucking hell. Is there a problem?

[Eric Mortensen]

Tell the truth. He's fine. That's it. Nothing wrong with that. Most people are fine. It's not about him. It's about why the fuck you think he deserves you. You deserve someone who makes you feel like you've been struck by fucking lightning. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, what are you talking about? He was. You're not. You're better than him. Right. And this is then the famous or infamous line, right?

[Eric Mortensen]

Don't you dare settle for five.

[Sarah Maclean]

And let's so say we all, everybody, every. Like, this is what you deserve. And this is like the moment I wrote down, like, high expectations. Like, Roy Kent is romance novel telling you, you deserve better. You deserve the best you can get.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Like, and I think this whole episode is a struggle to then feel like you deserve it for so many characters. Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, the whole season. Yeah. Is about that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The whole season.

[Sarah Maclean]

Don't settle.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Don't settle. And don't fuck it up either, when you do have it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So it really does set the stage, that first episode. But, yeah, like, you, I was like, wait, that was episode one.

[Sarah Maclean]

I don't know why.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It surprised me as well. I thought it was so much further in. But they really come out of the gate strong with, you know, setting the whole theme for, like, essentially, like I said.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So you ready to talk about episode two?

[Sarah Maclean]

Episode two is the best. I love it.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

So this is what we'll call the masturbation episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, what else could we call it, really?

[Sarah Maclean]

Right? I mean. Okay, but I. Oh, my God, it's so hot. It's so hot. So we find out that Roy had a bit of an embarrassing time when he officially resigned from soccer. When he retired from soccer. And he cried when he was giving at his press conference, which is like. Again, Right? Like, take this super. The like, most masculine character and give him nuance. Like, give him, like, tell everybody that it's totally. Not only is it fine for him to have cried at his resignation, his press conference, it's really hot. Oh, so he gets. He and Keely are living together now, it seems.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, it's interesting because it's not ever clear. Well, in the Christmas episode, he says, we're gonna go to my posh neighborhood. So he still has his house somewhere, but, like, they're more or less living at her place. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And so he gets home and he is looking for her and she is nowhere to be found. So he seeks her out.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, sure. And she's in bed having some private time.

[Sarah Maclean]

He surprises her with, were you having a wank? And she throws the phone. She's so embarrassed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And the best part about this is he's like, so, like, well, I want to know what gets you excited. Like, okay, I can, you know, tell me about what it is you were looking at.

[Sarah Maclean]

And she's like, no, no.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Deer in the headlights. And it turns out it's his him crying at a press conference. And what she says is, right. Like, basically, you're being passionate and vulnerable, and that is what turns her crank. And it is.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's great. And what's so cool about the writing here is this is also. This is the same episode. So then she, like, convinces him. He's, like, being convinced. This is the episode where she convinces him to try color commentary. Like, so go work for, you know, whatever, the sports network, which is a real sports network. All these people are real. And, like, do the color commentary on soccer every. On, you know, football every, you know, whatever day.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I didn't know they were all real people until. My friend Ernesto is a big soccer fan. He was like, I can't believe they got all those people. And I was like, oh, me neither.

[Sarah Maclean]

But I bet that if there was an American football show, they get all those people too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of course.

[Sarah Maclean]

What a cool thing. And also, it's a total delight. I mean, it is, right? Listen, if Ted Lasso asks you to do anything, you do it. You do it, right? And so there's this moment. So he's getting his makeup, like, he's getting, like, touch ups. And she says, what do you usually do with your lashes? And he says, I leave them the fuck alone. The real the moment, there is. There's this, like, push, pull of, like, you have this, like, super sensitive character who, like, can feel his feeling and understands, like, patriarchy and toxicity and, like, like, you know, why nuance is important in all these conversations. And like is so into, like, having all of these different sides of himself. And then also still is like, fuck you. I leave my lashes alone.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What do I do with my eyelashes? I know it seems to me, at least here in America, like, it's such an acceptable, like, kind of thing to do after you retire from the sport. And so to see Roy reject it, you're kind of like, well, why? Why is that? And then at some point you get that it's just, like, so painful. He just misses playing so much that this. It's not that he doesn't want to have this like arc of being a commentator, it's that he just misses it too much. And this, it hurts.

[Sarah Maclean]

He's broken. He's. He's. It's grief. Like, he's, he's grieving. And what's interesting is this whole series, this whole season is a lot about grief. It's about grief in many, many, many, many different ways. Like what loss looks like and what. Like the way that we put ourselves back to back together after losing somebody, after being disappointed in somebody, after being disappointed in ourselves, after, like, not being able to live up to expectations. Like, there's so much grief happening.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think I kept thinking at this moment too, about when we had my brother Eric on for season one. He said that one of the things he thought about a lot with Ted Lasso is that it's like a workplace comedy, right? And I think one of the things that's, like, really interesting in our modern world is even though I, like, hate capitalism, I like my work. And so it's like this really interesting push pull to see Roy, like, essentially grieving for, like, I'm still in the workplace, but not in the way I want to be, right? I'm not in the role I was anymore. I'm too far removed and how little room there is in our society for that. Like, I am defined a lot by the work I do. And it's complicated because I shouldn't be, but here I am. And I thought that that captured that so well.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, because in the first episode, in episode one, there's this moment of, like, with the boyfriend, with Rebecca's boyfriend, where he's like, oh, it must be so hard for you. Like, he really hits that hard. And there is that moment, like, and for anybody who's ever, you know, left a career or, you know, lost a person or left a relationship, right? Like, I think Roy's relationship with his, with soccer is a lot like most people's relationships with, like, you know, people. And I think whenever that happens, you know, when you make that sort of big life choice, when people kind of hammer it home for you, it often feels like, oh, well, should it feel worse? Like, does it? There's so much complexity in the way Roy is dealing with this. And the irony is, of course, the whole time Ted is in the background saying to Keely, hey, is Roy coming to the game? Is Roy coming? Like, Ted knows what Roy needs. And what's interesting is that. And this episode is not this fated mates episode is not about Ted and Dr. Sharon. And like, all of that, that's going on. But Ted is so finely tuned and hyper aware of what everyone else needs mostly that he can't see it and he can't figure out what he needs. Himself. Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So, I mean, I think that there's a real furthering of that. Who are we when we're at work, especially if we're at the top of our game at our workplace, versus how can you be so competent at work and such a wreck personally? Right. I mean, there's like. There's a lot of ways in which that played out in really interesting ways. But, you know, at the end of that episode, one of the things he says to Keely is, what if they think I'm shit? And so it's like, you know, to be at the, you know, the top of the game, literally, and then have to, like, go back to being like, what's my place in this world? What if I'm not good at it?

[Sarah Maclean]

But of course he's not shit. He's great. Even though he has a massive potty mouth, which of course he does, because he's Roy Ken. He's amazing. He just crushes it. Because of course he does, because he's. Listen, if you want people to. If you want somebody to talk about football, you. You hire Roy Kent. Because he knows more than everyone else.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Absolutely.

[Sarah Maclean]

He's a superstar and he. And I think he loves it in the moment. Like he's. He like gets high from it, I think.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So I. Absolutely.

[Sarah Maclean]

He comes home and of course Keely knows exactly how it went, that he crushed it. But he walks in and she doesn't want to. She doesn't want to wreck it by like, she wants to push him.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, Exactly.

[Sarah Maclean]

And what does he do, Jennifer?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, it's super hot. He puts in her earbuds and he turns on the press conference and gives it to her. And then he goes down on her.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's magnificent service. It's a. May we all have a Roy Kent in our life.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It was unreal. It was so good.

[Sarah Maclean]

Terrific. I don't have any notes for episode three.

[Jennifer Prokop]

There's one really, only one really interesting thing about three. When it's with Phoebe, Sassy's daughter is with Rebecca. And Rebecca's trying to do all this little girl stuff with her and they run in, you know, she runs into Roy, right? And they're walking out. And he gives her this, like, you know, this piece of golden advice falls from his mouth, right? And he says, you know, they just want to feel like they're a part of our lives. And it's this really, like, interesting insight into, like, his. The way he is with Phoebe, you know, and there's a little more information about why he's with Phoebe so much. Basically, like, you know, his sister is a doctor.

[Sarah Maclean]

Her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The dad is out of the picture. She just works a lot. And Roy can take care of Phoebe and he loves to do it. So it's just like, like a really. I was also thinking, you know, it's so common in pop culture to have, like, aunts and uncles be terrible. And I also really like this idea that, like, instead, like, he's great at it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Just a cool uncle.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, I think the Roy Phoebe relationship is really interesting across the board because throughout the whole season, you're sort of like, where's Phoebe's mom? Like, what's happening with this kid? And you know what's funny?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

I feel weird about it in a lot of ways. Like, where's what's happening?

[Jennifer Prokop]

So I'm going to tell you, I'm going to go back to your Cheers observation because one of the things that was really interesting about Cheers is how, like, Norm's. We never saw, like, Norm's wife, and we very rarely if ever saw it. Was it Carla, her? Like, they only exist in the bar. I think that there's a way in which you and like, it. It's. It's. It's like at some point that it becomes almost like a joke. Wait, you're never gonna meet Norm's wife.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, and so I think that in some ways it's like classic sitcom. Like they only exist in the workplace and then.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, but I mean, I guess that's true. But like, Roy does exist in Phoebe's world.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

And every time you see him, he's doing some kind of serious parenting over in that world.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, that's because. So episode four is the Christmas episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

And I'm gonna give you an option. We can either do the Christmas episode now or we can do it later because it's out of time for this. It is out of time. The series.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know what? I think we should just talk about it now and then move on.

[Sarah Maclean]

First of all, sexy Christmas, great. But let me bring. Let me just put a pin in this. Let me put a capper on the Phoebe thing, which is so the Roy and so, okay. The Christmas episode is, in fact, out of time. They wrote 10 episodes. The season was intended to be a 10 episode arc. There are two extra episodes that were ordered by Apple and written after the fact One is the Christmas episode. And I believe that the reason why the Christmas episode falls the way that it does or is written out the way that it does is that they could only get certain actors at certain times maybe. Yeah, so that, I mean, I'm making this up but like that's how it feels to me. And so they knew they had to do like, they knew they couldn't do Roy and Keely separate from each other for Christmas. So they had to like tighten it up and you know, film it whenever they could. So the Christmas episode has, I think the most beautiful arc of it is the Higgins with all of the players arc. It's so fun and it just. Every time. I've now watched the Christmas episode three times and every time I watch it I'm like, I just want Christmas with like 83 teen like 20 year old boys. Like in my house. Like, it seems really darling. And then there's Rebecca and Ted delivering like Santa packages to kids who have written to Santa throughout London. And then there is Roy and Keely's sexy Christmas where they're supposed to have sexy Christmas. And it's like there's a great moment at seven minutes in where he turns up and she is wearing a like so hot, absolutely like banging like lady grocery outfit. And he says, holy fucking shit, you look incredible. There's just one problem, which is Phoebe's mom is an ER doctor and had to go to work, so Phoebe's with them. So no sexy Christmas. Instead sexy December 27th, which is today.

[Jennifer Prokop]

There you go.

[Sarah Maclean]

Hey, I'm sorry I didn't dress for it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then.

[Sarah Maclean]

But during this time, Phoebe has halitosis. She has like bad, really, like as Keely describes it, medically bad.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Right. Wait, before we go back, can I just tell you? I don't often wish for like scenes that aren't on screen. I'm not like that. I'm like, oh, look at the story they're giving me. But I really did spend some time imagining how Keeley would have convinced Roy to do something called sexy Christmas. Anyway, I mean, I'm just trying to imagine her ramp up to that. Yes, agreed.

[Sarah Maclean]

I would like that too. Somebody fanfic that. So anyway, so Berner, this jerk kid in her class has given her a bottle of mouthwash as like a joke gift.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so mean.

[Sarah Maclean]

Roy says, right, where does Bernard live? Keely's like, you can't beat up an 8 year old.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know.

[Sarah Maclean]

He's like, why? And then he decides that they are going to in classmates. He's like there's a problem, I'm going to solve it. We are going to go back to my posh neighborhood.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Knock on 10 doors and find a dentist. And if we get to the end of the ten doors, you both get a thousand pounds.

[Jennifer Prokop]

One of my favorite little throwaway lines is at one point Phoebe looks at Keely and's like a thousand pounds. That's a month worth of swear words because she's been charging him. And it just shows you like how much money this kid is clearing her like college bank account or whatever. Amazing.

[Sarah Maclean]

And it's also like, it ends with like a little nod this episode, the whole season nods at rom coms.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

It nods at the end to the love actually scene with Keira Knightley and the husband's best friend.

[Jennifer Prokop]

With the cards.

[Sarah Maclean]

With the cards. But it's very darling and it just shows like Roy Kent, if you are lucky enough to have Roy Kent love you, he is gonna, I mean he's a full on romance hero. He will do whatever it takes. He will knock on 10 posh doors on Christmas day to make you happy. And like,

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know, you know, I will also say I watched this episode obviously back in July when it was on and then I watched it again and it's a. I understand. Like it's smart of them to have a Christmas episode. Right. Because every Christmas I'll be like, I'm gonna watch that episode.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Like it's so funny. And it came out in July and it was weird in July, but then like at Christmas it was like delightful. Greatest. It's a gift.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Super smart.

[Sarah Maclean]

Also for those of you watching at home or tracking, keeping track at home about Sarah's theories of Rebecca and Ted, I'd like to just about the Christmas episode that it is one of the moments where I think like Rebecca is also like a little bit Roy Kenty. I think Rebecca and Roy are being played off of each other a little bit in this whole season. Rebecca is like the lady Roy because she talk about somebody who also like clearly cares deeply for Ted and like had this opportunity to go to Elton John's Christmas party, but also like maybe didn't have that opportunity and like just does this cool thing, you know, where she takes, takes gifts to kids who, who don't have, don't have a ton of gifts on Christmas. And she goes to find Ted, you know. Yeah. During the first Christmas after his divorce, which is a tough time again. Grief. Right. She understands where he's at. She's down in the hole with Him. And I really love the two of them. And I love that she says to him, like, I'm not gonna tell you where we're going. Cause she trusts that when they get there, he's gonna just know what to do.

[Jennifer Prokop]

They'll know what to do. Exactly. Okay, before we leave the Christmas episode, can we talk about Isaac on the Christmas Throne?

[Sarah Maclean]

Oh, my God, What a gift.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, I really love Isaac so much. But. Yeah. And then they're having, like, a secret Santa, and they're all exchanging just bottles of liquor.

[Sarah Maclean]

Fabulous. And cash money for that sweet boy whose name I can't remember, but the new. The Kit Man.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, yeah. Right, right.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, what a little darling he is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Isaac on the Christmas.

[Sarah Maclean]

Amazing. Oh, my God. No, Isaac is also. I mean, Isaac this whole season.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would. If there is a.

[Sarah Maclean]

Look, I love all the team. I want spinoffs of everybody.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. I love the team, but I really. Isaac's arc on this was so good, too.

[Sarah Maclean]

Did you notice, Speaking of Isaac, did you notice that he's reading Wrinkle in Time at one point?

[Eric Mortensen]

No.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, that sounds pretty great. It's like, did Roy give Isaac a Wrinkle in time? Episode 5. This is the Rom Communism episode,

[Jennifer Prokop]

which is almost like, when I watched it, some of these episodes felt like. I don't. Like, I was like, is this for real? Like, it's being written. Right. For us.

[Eric Mortensen]

I know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

For romance readers. They know romance is out here just, like, drinking it like mother's milk. Yes, yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Well, and I think that whole, you know, everything's gonna end up. Right. Everything's going to end up okay. Yes. But all the shout outs to all the different rom coms.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, adorable.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, and this is also the scene where the one where Rebecca, like, makes herself big.

[Sarah Maclean]

Listen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And when Keely, like, fuck you, let's invade France.

[Sarah Maclean]

It is. When she did that, the first time she did that, I like, spat out, like, every. I was like, drinking and, like, spit taped.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it was.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, it was the moment where I was like, oh, I would leave Eric for this person.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She is amazing.

[Sarah Maclean]

She is everything I've ever wanted in another human being. Like, I just want to be like her forever. I make myself big. Oh, my gosh. And like, the whole. This whole. This episode. I don't know. It might be my favorite episode of the season because there are a couple things that happen. One, it is the episode that makes the promise. It makes a covenant promise to the viewer that I think is really interesting. At one point, Ted is in his office and he says, now these next

[Jennifer Prokop]

few months might be tricky, but that's just cause we're going through our dark forest. Fairy tales do not start, nor do

[Sarah Maclean]

they end in the dark forest.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That son of a gun always shows up smack dab in the middle of a story. But it will all work out. Now, it may not work out how you think it will or how you hope it does, but believe me, it will all work out exactly as it's supposed to.

[Sarah Maclean]

And like, had this moment that was like, oh my God, it's romance. Right? Like, it's. That they've made. That's it. Ted made us a promise in that moment, like, it is all gonna be okay. It will work out that moment just like it's perfect. And then of course, there's so much rom com stuff.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Almost like too much to even, like, name, because Roy.

[Sarah Maclean]

And Roy is. It's Roy and football again. Like, it's, it's. They are the romance. And so they have had their. Their dark moment. And now he's having his realization that what he really wants is to coach. And this is because this is the Isaac episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Ted, the way that he finally gets like, Roy on the hook is to be like, something is wrong with Isaac. And that is Roy's responsibility because Roy is the one who said Isaac is your next, you know, your next. Whatever it's called.

[Sarah Maclean]

Captain.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Captain. And so this is.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, he's also looking for a big dog. Right. And this is where we. Where we lose Nate. It's the moment Ted loses Nate.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. But you know, this is also like back to the whole, like, workplace thing. I found myself thinking about Nate a lot, which is like, a lot of my identity is built into who I am at work. But I cannot expect the people I work with to be my family. And this innate, like, Right. Like, we do start to see, like this, especially on the rewatch. Like, this is where we really see that, like by choosing Roy, he said goodbye to Nate. And it's really explicit when he chooses Jamie. He's worried he's going to lose the rest of the team. But this part, it's like the same exact thing. But like, right. A couple of episodes later, you chose one, you're going to lose the other. Because this Nate cannot coexist peacefully with Roy as a coach. It's just never going to happen.

[Sarah Maclean]

I struggle. I mean, you and I have talked about this separately. And obviously, again, we're not talking about Nate. We're talking about Roy this episode. But whatever. But I really struggle with Nate's arc.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, me too.

[Sarah Maclean]

As a writer and as, like, a human. Because there's so much love for him from the jump we watched when we rewatched this second season, we rewatched from the start of season one. And, like, there's just, like, talk about a character who is constantly being lifted. Right, Right. And it just. It's so hurtful, the idea that, like, and. And, like, whatever. This is Nate's journey, and Nate is upset and Nate is going through it. And, like, I don't mean to diminish that in any way, but, like, it's that sense. I think the thing that hurts the most is that as a human who tries to lead with kindness, you sort of have this moment where you're like, oh, my God. Like, there are some moments where, like, you just get. You cannot do it right. Like, you have done. Like, it feels like Ted did it right, did it right, did it right. And then, like, he makes that one moment, that one thing where he laughs at Nate about, you're not a big dog. You can't fix Isaac's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Right. You don't have what it takes. But I think the thing that I found myself thinking about a lot as a corollary is, and I'm, like, skipping ahead to the end where Keely realizes that she's gonna have to leave or, like, leave stop working with Rebecca, and she goes to Higgins, and what Higgins says is, right. A good mentor wants you to move on. A great one knows you will. And so I was also thinking about, like, Nate. Nate reads, quote, unquote, reads Ted's, like, behavior as disinterest. Whereas I think Ted mostly means it to be trust.

[Sarah Maclean]

I think so too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

Especially because there's this sense of like. But also, like, I mean, I think that, look, you also can't deny the father threat through this entire season. I mean, culminating in that amazing. We're gonna talk about it. Culminating in, like, a great dad moment.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

But this father piece, this, like, Ted as mentor, Ted as father figure, Ted as the supportive, like, encouraging, like, trusting leader that Nate doesn't have from his actual human father for lots of reasons. And so, like, when Ted says, like, we're gonna go with Nate's plan because Nate's plan is a good plan. Nate thinks Ted is trying to sabotage him. Like, which is. I mean, when is Ted ever sabotaged anybody except for himself?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And that's the part where you just really see, again, like, my work competence and my personal vulnerabilities on a collision course. Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And also, it Feels. I mean, I think it's really interesting because there is a real sense of. And you know, we've been talking about this again. We're sort of on a Nate. A neat. This is the Nate pause for the podcast. But, you know, Eric and I talked a lot about how Nate's hair is gray through the whole season, which I think is a little heavy handed. Serious choice. Cause it does feel a little heavy handed. But Eric was like, I wonder if it started as, like, maybe Nate isn't as young as we thought he was. And I don't know. I don't know if that's true or not. I don't know. But I do think, like, in season one, he feels very young.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then, like, when the new kit man comes in, like, this new kitman

[Jennifer Prokop]

feels like, oh, no, he's really young.

[Sarah Maclean]

Extremely young. Like a child. Like, has acne, is a child.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And so, like, maybe Nate just isn't. Maybe.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's interesting.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

I did have a moment with Nate where I was like, he just feels green too, in a lot of ways. Like your instinct. Like, he doesn't quite see the whole forest for the trees.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Season three is gonna be.

[Sarah Maclean]

And is really bowled over by Rupert, which is gross.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, but of course he would be, right.

[Sarah Maclean]

Mm. Well, yeah. Rupert knows how to manipulate people.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Sarah Maclean]

Anyway, so this episode, this rom com episode, it's such a classic moment. Yeah. Like, Roy is miked up.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Ready to go. And then he's like, I miss all of it.

[Eric Mortensen]

Excuse me. What are you doing? I'm sorry, fellas. This isn't what I'm meant to do.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Roy.

[Eric Mortensen]

Jeff, I have to go.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it's like he runs to Nelson Road. It's like at the end of the Notting Hill where they're, like, getting to the press conference on time and I

[Sarah Maclean]

can't get you any further.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. You know what else I really noticed? There were two really interesting things in that cab ride. One is that he gives the cab driver. He thrusts this money at the cab driver, gives him cash and says, you've got to date your wife. Right. But you have to, like. Right. You have to, like, take care of her and date your wife. But the other thing is, which is

[Sarah Maclean]

When Harry Met Sally nod.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I don't know if we remember this, but in season one, there was some throwaway line about how, like, one of Roy's girlfriend had, like, taken his watch. Yeah, what?

[Sarah Maclean]

Like, I need a phone and a watch.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. But in this episode, he gives the watch away he gives the watch away again, and it's, like, purposeful.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Like, for love.

[Sarah Maclean]

Interesting. For love.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I remember thinking, like, the first time around, it was like, you're a chump. Almost like you're too dumb to even, like, you know, like, press charge against this woman who stole your watch. But this time around, he's like, I'm headed to Nelson Road. Take the fucking watch. I don't care.

[Sarah Maclean]

He knows what's important.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. And I really like that tiny little nod back to some of that stuff from season one.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then he gets. He's. He's Reba. It's Reba McEntire. The ticket is there for Reba McIntyre. And he's required. He's forced to say the words, which is a delight. And then he marches himself onto the field and changes everything. Also, for writers in the group, knowing that this was originally episode five. No, episode four. This is your act one pivot.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Because we lose this episode. We lose. We lose Nate. Like, suddenly Nate's been criticized and we see the down. We start to see Nate turn a corner to go down, and we start to see Roy really, like, come on a rise.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So good.

[Sarah Maclean]

So episode six. Oh, no. And then there's, of course.

[Eric Mortensen]

Just shut up. You had me. A coach.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then beard gasps, and it's a laugh out loud. It really was very funny.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Famous, famous Renee Zellweger line, right? Or no, I guess it's Tom Cruise.

[Sarah Maclean]

You had me at hello. That's Renee.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. No, Tom says it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Does he?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, no.

[Sarah Maclean]

Ask Mr. Romance. He went to prom with her. He'll know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He did go to prom with her.

[Eric Mortensen]

She.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You're right. She says that you had. He's talking, talking, and she's like, shut up. You had me. Hello.

[Sarah Maclean]

Okay. Episode six. Episode six is the panic attack episode. So while Jen is getting her thoughts together, I'll just tell you once again, Rebecca comes out, saves Ted.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

She understands. Rebecca knows where Ted is at every step of the way this season.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. It's also really interesting because this is. We haven't talked about the doc yet, and, you know, there's been a team therapist that was brought on to help Jamie. But, like, we see her helping so many of the characters as they're going through whatever it is that they're going through. And this is, like, one of the times where you really see Ted needing help and not getting it right. But also, it's really interesting that Roy is never involved in the therapy part at all. And I always get the sense that it's because, like, he's figuring this out for himself. Right. It's really interesting.

[Sarah Maclean]

Roy also does not struggle to articulate his feelings.

[Jennifer Prokop]

His feeling.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's his feeling singular. Yes. I mean, it's interesting because that's a good example of, like, where you might lose another sort of traditionally toxically masculine character is, like, an inability to acknowledge that he might have misread a situation or he might have, like, been hurt or, like, he might feel bad about something. Roy does not have trouble. He might have trouble, like, in the moment, like, articulating the exact feeling, but he doesn't have trouble with the actual act of articulation.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, right. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Like, he might not know what the words are, but he knows, like, that he's feeling a feeling.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is also the episode, though, where he won't coach Jamie. Like, we do see that, like, this is kind of the next crisis is going to build with Jamie. And so he will give advice or coaching to anybody else on the team, but he just won't have anything to do with Jamie. And so we know that this is something that, like, is gonna have to be, like, worked out in order for Roy to really be, like, the coach. He has to stop ignoring this guy he just fucking hated.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes. This is also. There is some stuff happening here. And at 11 minutes, Ted says, it's time for you to woman up. You've been manning up for a while now.

[Eric Mortensen]

Mm.

[Sarah Maclean]

Right. Like, again, it's this moment where Ted. Where there's an awareness of, like, in the writers room, there's an awareness of, like. Like, these kind of, like, gender norms, Right? Yeah. Like, there's a moment of an awareness that in the writer's room, they're constantly playing with these gender norms.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, I think so. And I think there's a lot of ways in which they're able to, you know, And I would say, who knows if these will age well. Right. But, like, another one that struck me is, like, there's a part where it's in the last season where they're all like, it's halfway through the game before, if they don't make it, they don't get promoted. And he's like, it's a portrait of masculine melancholy or whatever.

[Sarah Maclean]

I want that. Like, I want a giant. That should be a poster. Why is that not for sale?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I have no idea. I have no idea.

[Sarah Maclean]

That should be for sale in Apple stores.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Seriously, what are you doing? So I do. I think that there's, like, a part where it's, like, you know, explicitly, this is code. For you're gonna have to get over yourself.

[Sarah Maclean]

You're gonna talk about your feelings.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You're gonna have to, like, do this. You don't. You know, we're not paying you to coach. I don't know, whatever he says, whatever fraction of the team when Roy's like, fine, take it out of my check. You know, like, I'm not gonna do it.

[Sarah Maclean]

But then simultaneously, Ted is struggling with, like, keeping this secret, right? Ted has a panic attack. He leaves the field, and like, every. No one can quite figure out what's going on, except for Rebecca and ultimately Dr. Sharon.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That episode, to me, was just, like, setting up, you know, like. Right. It's setting up, like, future conflict. But I think the other thing that's really interesting is we also haven't had a lot of Roy and Keeley for a while, and it's not until the next episode, if I'm ready to go on, that we get that, like, Keely is super frustrated by essentially now, like, working with Roy, living with Roy, being with Roy, commuting with Roy, being with Roy, being with Roy, being with Roy, being with Roy.

[Sarah Maclean]

And there is a moment, right, where as a viewer, you're like, you have this quiet. You have this realization as, like, a viewer who, you know, likes Roy a lot. But, like, having a Roy Kent figure be obsessed with you might be a lot. And then I really did have a moment where I was like, oh, my God, it's full romance hero back.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Because the truth is, and I've said this before on the podcast, we like these men in our books, but if we lived with them, it would be too much.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, right. The part where he, like, comes out to, like, read a book with her, and she's like, I just wanted. And it's like a Sex and the City scene where they're fighting, right? Yeah. And it's so. But I think the other thing that was. What's really funny about this is there are several times he walks into conversations. Oh, my God. Stops talking, and he's like, are you talking about me?

[Sarah Maclean]

The greatest moment of a character walking in on someone talking about him ever is Higgins and Rebecca.

[Eric Mortensen]

Jazz, what's going on? Why are you. Jazz. Cutting.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And of course, Roy, who's so, like, like, knows exactly what's going on, but cannot even observe the social nicety of pretending he didn't notice.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, are you talking about me?

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, not even bothered by it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well. And you know what? I had a moment, Jen, where I thought about you and the book that you chose for the box. The fated mates end of year box. The one that was like, what happens after the hea?

[Jennifer Prokop]

You mean after the billionaire's wedding vows by Lucy Monroe?

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes, because this is what happens, right? Like, so obviously that's a different situation where, like, the marriage goes really south. But like, here it's like, this is what happens after the hea. They're delighted. They have sexy Christmas. It goes a little south. Then there's like, all the Roy drama, and now he's just around all the time. And don't you have somewhere to be, man? Keely says Roy is none of those things. He's perfect. And I should know because I spend every minute of every second of every hour of every day with him. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Just tell him that you.

[Sarah Maclean]

Hi, babe.

[Eric Mortensen]

You talking about me?

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes, definitely.

[Eric Mortensen]

Ready to go? Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

She says he's perfect because he is perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But just people need a little alone time, right? And the thing that was that I also thought was so brilliant about this again, from, like, a writer's perspective, is they have this fight. He's furious. He storms out. I mean, she's like, oh, my God, is he broken? Are we breaking up? Like, that's how serious it is. And the next day, he's on the field and he's coaching, and he realizes essentially, like, how much of an ass he's been when he gives them directions on the field that, like, make no sense. And it was Jamie who's like, I have to trust my teammate to, like, use the space that I'm giving.

[Eric Mortensen]

What'd you say?

[Sarah Maclean]

The best thing I can do in that situation is give him space. He's right, actually.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah, I know.

[Sarah Maclean]

I learned it from Pep. He got it from Cruyff. Pronounced Cruyff. Okay, Englishman.

[Eric Mortensen]

Look, whatever.

[Sarah Maclean]

The point is that Richard doesn't need

[Jennifer Prokop]

me to crowd him.

[Sarah Maclean]

And since he's my teammate, I should trust him to do what's best.

[Eric Mortensen]

Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

And then he goes, because Jamie. Especially because it takes Jamie.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Explaining it that for Roy to understand. I mean, I was gonna save this for later when we do the dad episode, but we really slept on Phil Dunster last year.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, completely.

[Sarah Maclean]

Because the actor who plays Jamie is just tremendous. And I literally now I want to see everything he's ever been in.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, he's amazing. Well, then he, like, you know, puts her in a bath full of rose

[Sarah Maclean]

petals and has a special playlist full of Sade. Listen, the Roy is sorry for not understanding Keely playlist, which, of course you can get on Apple Music and probably somebody wonderful Has. Has made it on Spotify, too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

So they have sexy bath time. And he talks about her gross feet. And it feels like after the hea.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Again, like, there's hair in the drain and there. Like, her feet are gnarly and. And it's. Okay. Can I just say. Can I just pause on this episode, though? There's also a moment. There's an echo of dialogue in this moment that I think is also really relevant to the whole series and to us as readers and people in general. But beard checks Nate in this episode. I forget why. Do you remember why? Well, he's really shitty to Colin.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, Colin comes in as kind of, like,

[Sarah Maclean]

so mean.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And Colin, who is, like, visiting Dr. Sharon, has a new mantra, like, is poor Colin.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I hope he gets. Finds the man of his dreams in season three. Will. I hope. Okay.

[Sarah Maclean]

But beard checks Nate. And it was an echo of something Phoebe said to Bernard on the cards during the Christmas episode. And it was, do better.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And I love that. Like, I love that because it's. Again, it's that sort of be curious, not judgmental. It's not like, hey, you suck. It's just like, I think you can do better.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Like, we can all just like, if we could all just lead a little bit with do better.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it's not. The goal then. Is not perfection. It's just improvement.

[Sarah Maclean]

Right? Yeah. And it was really. And I. I heard it on the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Watch. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

All right, Episode eight. This is your haircut.

[Jennifer Prokop]

God, I don't know why it was so amazing.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's amazing every time. So Sam. You have to talk about Sam and Rebecca just to set it up.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So Sam and Rebecca have unknowingly been flirting each other through the banter app, and they finally agreed to meet. And, no, you know, they don't know that it's each other. And so Sam in the locker room, turns to Isaac and says, will you give me a haircut? And the whole room freezes because it's like, something important has happened. And who's the Dutch guy? Jan is like, what's going on? Why is this a big deal?

[Sarah Maclean]

The Dutch guy is one of my favorite characters, too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know who he reminds me of? He's like, in the Golden Girls. Sofia. The one who just says anything.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, except Sofia has an edge of, like, she's gonna be mean to you. This guy just, like, says it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm just saying, like, he has no

[Sarah Maclean]

way of reading a room. And I love that Sam at one point says, like, oh, he's not mean. He's just Dutch.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's just Dutch.

[Sarah Maclean]

With love to our Dutch. Our Dutch listeners, We love you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so someone explains to him that, like, basically you can get one haircut a season from Isaac and that he is, in fact, like, a master with the clippers. Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And when he asks for it, the whole room is like, oh, yeah, Fall silent.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It felt a lot like the cultural competence of, like, here's the barbershop in the. Right. Here's the barbershop in the locker room. And that there's, like, this way that we see people taking care of each other in the show that happens in lots of different ways. And, like, I don't know. I just loved, like, and the. I mean, he's such an artist with the clippers. It's not. I mean, like, the way he approaches, you know?

[Sarah Maclean]

And I love that Jaime is the one again who, like, shuts everyone. Like, he's like, shut up, everyone.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The magic is happening.

[Sarah Maclean]

Precious. This is a precious event that has only happened a finite number of times

[Jennifer Prokop]

and can only happen a finite number of times.

[Sarah Maclean]

Jamie, who was such an asshole last season and didn't care about the team at all. Like, it's a moment where we see Jamie in the team, and that's going

[Jennifer Prokop]

to be important for later.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's magnificent. And it's Sam also saying, like, I choose, like, I. I'm gonna go with my gut. It's the. It's where we start to see Sam making choices that are about what Sam Journey thinks are important.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Which again, is gonna come. Will become important over the course of the rest of the season. So. And, of course, that sort of glorious kinship of all. From all of them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, it's also really interesting because you see that, like, the team has their rituals. Yes. And then the coaches and the. Like, the diamond dogs have theirs, and they don't necessarily interact all the time. But I think it's like this nod to, like, there's, like, a magic that's happening in the team itself.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And this is, like, a moment where we really. Where we really see that. And I just think it's amazing.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You watch Fleabag, right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It also reminded me a lot in Fleabag where, like, they go to get. She goes. Her sister goes to get a crazy haircut, or maybe she does. And the guy is like. The guy is like, a haircut. Can't fix this. There's something magical about this haircut. Yeah. And I think it's because it's given by Isaac. It's, like, given with Love. It's a fix that.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, also Isaac's moment as, like, captain. Like, you go to Isaac for guidance. You go to Isaac. Isaac new what you need. Yes. I mean, it's a wrinkle in time, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Isaac is the leader now. I love it. I hope Isaac is like a major figure in season three.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Me too. Can I just say one other thing? The other thing we saw with Roy in this episode was he picks up Phoebe, who's been in trouble for swearing at school.

[Sarah Maclean]

Oh, this is the teacher episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. No, no, no.

[Sarah Maclean]

There's a couple teachers.

[Jennifer Prokop]

One of them. It's one of them.

[Sarah Maclean]

This is the first teacher episode.

[Eric Mortensen]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Where he says, I'm really worried. I've been infecting you with the worst parts of me. And she's like, uncle Roy, what the

[Sarah Maclean]

fuck are you talking about?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yep. It's really tender.

[Sarah Maclean]

I like, as somebody who spends a lot of time thinking about curse words and their value and the way that we both value them, the way that we imbue them with certain kinds of value, and the fact that, again, I've talked about this book and this person many, many times on the podcast about Mona Altaoue's the seven Necessary Sins of Women and Girls has this whole, like, really impassioned argument that the reason why we police curse words is because of patriarchy. Like, we police girls language and women's language in a different way than we do men's language. And we police, you know, language in general, like, class wise. And I don't know. I don't know if this is something that they were thinking about, but this is one of those moments where when you're doing, like, a podcast about an episode of something, you can just say it. And I'm just saying, like, I really like that the cursing keeps coming back in interesting ways. And I like the Phoebe. Like, I like that we see this conversation happening, this push, pull.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Right. Well. And he doesn't just say, I'm a grown up. He says, I'm a footballer.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm allowed to talk like that because it's part of my job. You're a kid in school and you're not.

[Sarah Maclean]

You can't. Yeah. So I told you my daughter got Doc Martens for Christmas, and she was putting them on and she was like, they're so heavy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And without really thinking, I said, oh, well, that's why they're called shit kickers. And she looked at me and I was like, okay. And she was like, why? And then I was like, well, because you can Kick shit with them. Like, you can really, like. You can, like, bust things down with them. They're. They're boots for doing important work. And then I was like. And then she walked into the kitchen, and she was like, I got shit kickers. And I was like, okay, so you can say that with us, but please do not say that at school with your friends.

[Eric Mortensen]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

But also I was like, but it's for. You know, they are. They're for. Yeah, they're for raging against the machine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Literally.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, that's why I got my first pair.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Anyway, so we have to talk, though, about what happens at the end of this episode. Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Oh, my God. This is the dad's episode, right? I mean. Yeah, well, it's the first dad's episode because we're. Then we get Rebecca and her father. Like, this is. Again, Rebecca is like a member of the team. She's having all the same problems everybody else is having, but in her own way.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So Jamie's dad, they're playing in Wembley Stadium. They get their asses handed to them. It is a humiliation.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's awful in a way that I

[Jennifer Prokop]

was almost like, wow, they don't usually show this kind of thing on tv. Right. Like, we're just. It's so painful to watch. And there's also not a whole lot of football, really, in the season. So when it is on screen, to have it be like this, it's terrible.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And Jamie's dad, who's real shit, and we know that is there, and this is like a really. And he comes into the locker room, and he is just a maggot. I mean, I don't know how.

[Sarah Maclean]

Like, he's awful. He's. And he's awful. He's almost a caricature.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's so uncomfortable.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, talk about taking the finger. They didn't. Yeah. They don't pull any punch with this character.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think one of the things that's really fascinating to me is he is. He is not a big man physically. He is in a room full of these men who are literally in their prime. He is a. He's. He's not very big.

[Sarah Maclean]

He's small.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And yet his meanness. Talk about making yourself big, Right? Like, it's the corollary of what Rebecca does, because he has made himself big in this room. And he is being terrible to Jamie, just humiliating him, making fun of their performance, saying how terrible they were. It is painful to watch. And Jamie punches him in the face, Right? Yeah. And beard drags him out of the room while almost everyone else is just frozen either. And it's like one of those things where, like, I think we've all experienced this. When you see something, like, unexpected and truly shitty go down, it is so hard to, like, know what to do in that moment. You just are frozen.

[Sarah Maclean]

No one moves. No myths.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Yeah. It's really. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then that hug. I mean, this is. Again, Phil Dunster, like, we just. He is so great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And so he punches his dad out, and then he's just, like, vibrating. Right? Like, it's just like the. It's like there's nowhere for that to go. And they're all just sort of staring at him. It's this awful moment. And then all of a sudden, Roy just, like. I don't even know, like, he propels himself across the room, right? And he. And he hugs him. And you see Jamie just, like, at first, he's just, like, being hugged. Right. And then he hugs Roy back. And it is there. It's like, if you were like, show me how the patriarchy hurts men in one TV minute, this would be it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. It's amazing.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And I think I said that we learned about Ted's father in an earlier episode, but we have. There are, like, hints about Ted's father in the panic attack episode, but this is the episode where he fully admits. He, like, confesses. I mean, it's not a confession, but he, like, tells Sharon. He calls Dr. Sharon and he says that his father killed himself.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And that, to me, I will also say, is, like, a moment that really, like, I feel like I can, like, play it in my head right, where he's like, that happened to me and it happened to my mom. It's a real. It's. It was so emotionally devastating. And I feel like there's also this way in which, like, Roy hugging Jamie. I don't think it. It's not that it couldn't have been anyone else, but, like, I don't know that it would have been anyone else, maybe is the way to say it. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

No, I. I don't think. I think if it had been anyone else, it would have felt it wouldn't have had the weight of it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

Episode nine doesn't exist. Episode ten is the funeral.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

The manifestation of all this grief and, like, the weirdness around grief. And what's weird is what's cool is every character has a weird response to this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Sarah Maclean]

First, Isaac tells them all that they have to wear dress shoes.

[Eric Mortensen]

I love it.

[Sarah Maclean]

Again, Isaac is leader.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Isaac is no trainers, right. And they're all like, I don't have time to stand in line to get these other shoes. Jamie's like, you don't have to stand in line for these shoes. Nobody wants them. So good. So good. Sarah.

[Sarah Maclean]

So Rebecca's father dies.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

God, I love this episode. You know me, I love anything that's about a woman's father dying.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, it's now like grief made manifest. Right. Like the thing that we have been dancing around all season is now like right there on page, literally.

[Sarah Maclean]

And so there's a lot of discussion. Everybody's sort of coming to terms with how they feel. Like again, everyone's feeling a feeling also feeling like they're reliving things. Ted is reliving his father's death, which we discover in this episode was horrible.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then there's the moment where Keely's like, okay, for the Roy and Keeley piece. They're again, now we're in the. After the hea, right? We're in the part where they really do feel kind of married.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

There is a moment where she says that she would like to be buried under an apple tree and then have the fruit, like the tree bear fruit, and she wants people to be nourished from her corpse.

[Eric Mortensen]

And he says, that is fucking mental.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Like, and here's the truth is that that felt like possibly the most like my own marriage as these two have ever been. Right. Like we have an eight year old. There is no sexy Christmas here in Brooklyn. But like, I can absolutely imagine saying something like that. And Eric looking at me like, that's insane. And you have now gone off the end, the edge.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think in my marriage, I'm the Roy Kent. Like, when he was like, you live, you die, you're done. I was like, yep, sounds. Yeah, move along. There you go.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Okay. So I just love. And then she's upset because he's not understanding. Like, he doesn't understand what she's really talking about here. Like, she's. She's trying to go through her own. She's working through her own stuff and he's being insensitive. Like, then he comes back with the apple. He's like, I got this from tree outside. Like, you know, and it. There's a moment of like, he's just, he's not getting it and he's not being sensitive to her. And so later, yeah, at the like, buffet after the ceremony, Jamie confesses. Jamie, who's also like, dealing with funeral shit. Everybody in this whole episode is going through some Funeral shit.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

Jamie tells Keely that he loves her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know that you'll be right and that you're happy, but today's made me realize that I'd hate myself if I

[Eric Mortensen]

didn't say

[Sarah Maclean]

I didn't just come back to Richmond to get away from your dad. I also came back because of you. I finally think I'm becoming the best version of myself. The kind of man that you always knew that I could be. I know that this is a mad shitty thing to do, but I love you, Kilo.

[Eric Mortensen]

Sorry.

[Sarah Maclean]

And it's an interesting moment because

[Jennifer Prokop]

I really, like, as a watcher, was kind of scared. Like, I was like, wait, is she gonna get back with this yahoo?

[Sarah Maclean]

I thought so too. Although now I'm not sure he's a yahoo.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, but I. I think for me, what that was, though, is like, the appeal right then of someone who is gonna, like, validate the feeling she is having, as opposed to Roy, who is like, not so.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, I agree. And I think that. But I think it was really interesting because it went from. So Jamie confesses that he loves. That he loves her. And you can sort of. I mean, again, Juno Temple is just magnificent. Her eyes are humongous.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So good. Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

And she just. Suddenly, you're like. You can see her just internalizing this confession. And then Roy, like, immediately turns up after and is like, I am sorry. I've been an asshole. And you can see, like, he is also just. Again, it's like these two fairly now we're seeing, like, everyone's nuanced. Everyone has their tough times. Everybody has. And, like, not. There's no flat character in Ted Lasso. Jaime's proof. Right. Like, in season one, he was a delight because he was such a flat character for so long.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Not anymore. Yeah. One of the reasons that Keely. That Jamie approaching Keeley feels like such a betrayal to me, I think, to everyone is that this is immediately after the episode, essentially where Roy hugs him in the locker room.

[Sarah Maclean]

Right. And I think probably would feel more like that if the. If episode nine didn't exist. Right? Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Like, so it's easy to sort of forget because there's that. But I remember I skipped episode nine. And so I just went straight from the hug to this. And it's. You know, you're like, okay. And I think it's clear, like, everyone is just dealing with their own shit. But I will tell you, it's so shitty too. Right? You're like, God, why did you do that?

[Sarah Maclean]

Like, Roy was just kind to you. So Kind to you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Do better. Do better, Jamie.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Do better. He's still a baby.

[Sarah Maclean]

Doing better.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, he.

[Sarah Maclean]

I mean, he is. He's another, like, literal baby.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Can you talk about this? Wait, can you talk about this as a writer? Because you talked about, like, sort of the 3x structure kind of driving this, this season. So at what point do you think we're like, making the turn into these final episodes?

[Sarah Maclean]

So I always think so. I don't think. I think one of the big failings. This is now gonna be me talking about the three act structure for a second. So just forward for a minute if you don't care. My thing about the three act structure is I think that we often look at it and we talk about it as like three equal acts. I don't think of it at all as three equal acts. I think it's act one and then act two are often about the same length. And then act three is really the climax. So it feels. The pacing is different. It's really just a much tighter, shorter act.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, I agree.

[Sarah Maclean]

I actually think that the end of the funeral where Jamie makes his confession, we see Rupert the baby, we see

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sam breaks, or Rebecca breaks up with

[Sarah Maclean]

Sam, we see Rupert talking. Suddenly it's like there are lots of things that, like, a lot of, like, ribbons are being tightened. Everything's getting a little tighter. And so for me, episode 10 is the end of act two. And then you have two more episodes. Right. So you see, this is where. And for Roy and Keeley, this is the photo shoot episode, which is really the climax. It's a climactic moment for their relationship. This is the test. Right. And what's interesting is I said, you know, I've been saying this whole recording like, oh, this is what happens after the hea. It's actually, if you look at season two, like, season two's arc with Roy and Keeley is like a marriage. Like, this is. This is hea. And now here's your low moment of the. Of the season, of the book. If you look at it as a romance novel, the low moment is this moment where we see that Keely and Roy are possibly going in different directions. Yeah, yeah. So Keely's got this photo shoot she's been asked to be in. Is it Vanity Fair or Vogue?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Or Vogue or something? Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. So Keeley's been asked to be in Vogue. She's on this list of, like, the most powerful women in powerfulness. And she looks fucking great. I mean, she's just hot. And they've asked for Roy to be at the photo shoot. Right. For a couple of photographs. They want the hot footballer boyfriend. And this is my favorite moment of this episode is when he says. He describes his all black outfit as dark heather and charcoal. Not all black, which is perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Amazing.

[Sarah Maclean]

But this is also the episode where Nate kisses Keeley.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Which is a major moment in Nate's. Like, this is where, again, if you're thinking about it as this is the climactic episode of the season, this is also, I think. Is it the episode where Rebecca confesses to Ted?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think so. Well, and it's also the scene where the one where Roy spends like hours in the classroom with Phoebe's teacher and then when she says, are you married? He just says no.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. And they have that. And then Roy and Keely have that great moment on the couch during the photo shoot. So I want to get there. Wait, but there are other things. Before we do that, can we talk about.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Bye bye Bye.

[Sarah Maclean]

The full on dance number that Ted is coaching the team through to say goodbye to Dr. Sharon, who is leaving again. A kind of important moment for the whole arc of the season.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Amazing. You have to look like puppets.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's why.

[Sarah Maclean]

You have to look like marionettes. That's why it's called no strings attached to Amazing.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Honestly. So great.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. So she. Roy doesn't tell the teacher about Keely. You want to talk about that? I mean, you want to talk about that teacher scene. I know that you have a. Oh, yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I just think I'm going to tell you right now, like real weird. Very weird to have Phoebe being drawing pictures of tits. I was just like, what was this? It's just, I just have. You know what? There are two things I have excised from my memory when it comes to this season. And one is the beard episode.

[Sarah Maclean]

And one episode nine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Episode nine. And that nine seconds, like it's just like weird. And then Roy's like checking.

[Sarah Maclean]

This teacher's really interesting to me because I actually really like her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of course.

[Sarah Maclean]

And I've liked her for both seasons. Yeah. And like there is a kind of. Again, it's a moment where you think like sometimes your life just takes a different path.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yes. Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

Like you can totally see Roy and his teacher working out in a different time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Well. And that's the thing I think about, you know, when we talk about the hea. I mean, you know, look, you and I love fated mates, but for like,

[Sarah Maclean]

you know, real life, it doesn't exist.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It doesn't exist. It just means you decided. You decided and one of the things that I think is really nice about this episode is it's showing both of them deciding. And that's scary because I remember at the end of this episode being like, if this show breaks my fucking heart and they do not end together, I am gonna be so upset because it just would feel like such a betrayal of, like, the promise back in the rom com.

[Sarah Maclean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's all gonna work out. And I think that that was.

[Sarah Maclean]

But it won't work out the way you thought it might not work out the way you think it will.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And there's a part that was really interesting when they're sitting on the couch where they're essentially like, confessing to each other. And at first it feels open, but then it feels, like weaponized. Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Like, it feels like, yeah, Nate kissed me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. And it was really interesting the way we perceive, like, threats to the health and safety of our relationships versus the ones like we make ourselves.

[Sarah Maclean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I just think this show's so smart.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, yeah. And that scene on the couch comes after 34 minutes into this episode where Roy walks into the bedroom and Keely is like, oh, yeah, gorgeous, like, totally put together. But she is unhinging, like, right. She is, like, panicking about maybe she's not good enough. Maybe she's not strong enough. Maybe she shouldn't have been chosen for this. Like, she's having a real moment of self doubt, which is so normal.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Right. And at 34 minutes, Roy says, the real you is fucking amazing. You are Keely fucking Jones. Independent woman.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Independent woman.

[Sarah Maclean]

Right. And I think. And there's this moment where it's like you can see her just settle, like, yes, okay, Roy is here. Roy is my rock. Roy, like, Roy matters. What Roy thinks of me is like. Like what Roy says to me is important to me. Like, I internalize my partner. Yeah. Like, I trust him. He's. He's with me. Like, he is with me. And then on the couch, it's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This, to me is also like the inverse then of the scene on the couch with them earlier in episode two where she was the one who was like, you can do this. You've got this. Just go do it. And then like, the couch figures, right? Like in, like, them being vulnerable and open. And here they are. It's now they're vulnerable and open again, but in a painful way. Right. So it's really like that knife cuts both ways. Being vulnerable and open means being vulnerable and open. Yeah. And I think that's why they have to be on the couch at the end. I think we had to. That had to be where that conversation happened. Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, interestingly, if you want to play that couch theme all the way through, there's also the moment earlier in the season where. Where Jason Sudeikis lies down. Ted. I mean, I say Jason Sudeikis because he lies down on that couch in the therapist's office and he is like. He does like a full on, like, comedy routine of, like, where do I put my things? Like, how do I feel?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like it's.

[Sarah Maclean]

And it's so long that it starts to feel like, not like Ted Lasso, but like, you know, you're watching an SNL sketch, but the. Again, it's that sort of like, this is where you are supposed to be honest.

[Eric Mortensen]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then Sharon says, well, why don't you just sit? Because you're supposed to be honest everywhere. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well. And even back in season one, when Roy was like, I'm not gonna be able to do this, and she calls Phoebe over and is like, what do you like about your Uncle Roy? Like, they were sitting on a couch.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, I really think about this as like a.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, the couch in Rebecca's office is like, where they're always having their moments.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's like an important part of our modern lives. The couch.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah, exactly. So. And then it just becomes. It's really fascinating because it feels like there's this moment where. And it also is so important. Right. Because it's Nate again. We start to. We see it ties in. The writing is so smart. Everything ties into everything else. When Keely says, he kissed me, Nate kissed me. Roy's like, okay, well, that must have been awkward for you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Which of course, is about to become a bone. Like, it's about to seed the animosity with Nate even further because, again, it's

[Jennifer Prokop]

like the final straw.

[Sarah Maclean]

You're not like a real threat. You're not a real. You don't have any real weight. You don't. You're not a heavyweight.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And that's like a. It is. Like, that moment is really painful. And you find yourself thinking, like, what's gonna happen? And it's interesting to me that, like, they make it through, like, by the next episode. It's, you know, there's not, like, fallout from that moment, really. At least in honest.

[Sarah Maclean]

Not for that. That's not the moment. That is the painful moment for them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

So episode 12, Roy's pissed at Jamie again. Yeah, Right, right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He calls the Diamond Dogs to order.

[Sarah Maclean]

He does.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well. And listen, I'm Sorry. I've been joking about it the whole time. When he says, didn't use a single

[Eric Mortensen]

picture with me in it, and it hurt my feeling.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then. But then he says, she looked so great on her own without me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And it. It's so good.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's so good. You know what it reminded me of is in marrying Winterborn, there's this part where this older woman who is essentially like their chaperone, says to Rhys Winterbourne, like, essentially, like, do you think you deserve Helen? You know, like, are you even, like, good enough for her? And what he says is. He says, or, you know, oh, sorry. This woman says, don't you think, you know, she's. She's marrying down by being with you? Right? And what he says is, every man marries above himself. Lady Helen is so far above all men that none of us deserve her. Therefore, it might as well be me. And what I liked about this, like, what felt like real romance hero y to me in this moment, was us seeing Roy, who has been. I'm the footballer. I'm the one who's amazing in this upright feeling. Like, maybe I don't deserve her. Maybe she's too good for me.

[Sarah Maclean]

That scene in Keely's kitchen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah Maclean]

When he comes in and she's so nervous. And I got to say this, A lot of women in relationships with men who have, like, high powered careers or like, who have, like, have accolades come to them that are beyond, like, greatest, world's greatest mom, right? Have a moment when they are proud of themselves, like, in their career and they have. I can. I can imagine. I can. I can definitely think of times when you sort of think to yourself, like, is it okay? Like, is it going to be okay? Is it gonna be okay for me to say this to him? Is he gonna feel like I'm, you know, I'm getting some.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is making me less.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. Does this somehow make me too big for. You know, you talk all the time about, like, making yourself. Like, we try so hard to make ourselves small, right? And Rebecca was like, I make myself big before I walk into a room with all these men. Like, Keely tells him that she got this opportunity and, like, the banter. People wanna, like, fund her PR firm. And he is so proud of her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know.

[Sarah Maclean]

And he says, like, holy fucking.

[Eric Mortensen]

That is huge. You are a CEO and shit. That's amazing.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Love you so much.

[Eric Mortensen]

The boss not gonna have time for me anymore.

[Sarah Maclean]

And it's like a little bit of a joke, but, like, there's a kernel of truth in it. But he's still so proud of her. And he's like, let's open the champagne we've been saving.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And she says it was gonna be for a special occasion. And he was like, this is it, right?

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. And she gets the pictures, and she's like, oh, my God, you're not in them. I'm gonna call them. I'm gonna fix this. Tell them. And he's like. Like, don't you change a fucking thing. You look powerful and gorgeous.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

And it is so great because he is like. He is like, she is so far above me that no one will ever deserve her. But, like, I get to be here with her. Like, it's a little of both. It's bittersweet, right? He's not here, there, everywhere. Roy Kent. Roy Kent. But he can, like, be present as Keely becomes Keely Jones.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yep. Yeah. It's an amazing. It's amazing.

[Sarah Maclean]

It's so beautiful. It is, like, a model for how all men should be in marriages. Like, it's so good.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then I think, you know, the thing is, at the end, like, he says, like, we're gonna go away for six weeks. And it. It's like this really hard moment where you realize, like, it's for him. You know, I'm gonna go and eat tapas and not worry about my knee. And it's also for her, but it's. It's what he wants. And it's. It's. I think he's wonderful, but I think she's like, I can't do it. I can't go away. Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then he says, are we breaking? Are we breaking up? Because he can't.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah Maclean]

Figure it out. Like, this is. It's complicated, right? Like, this is a relationship between two people who are deeply skilled in their own lives and their own careers, who are independent people.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah Maclean]

And trying to figure out how to be with each other. And she says, no, of course not.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of course not.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then there's like. And I'll see you in six weeks.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then we'll be fine. Yeah. And, like, I gotta say them again.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's really interesting. Even though we see three weeks later and two months later, we just are left to assume that they are.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know. And I am concerned.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Are you?

[Sarah Maclean]

I'm concerned. I'm concerned because television has not necessarily proven itself trustworthy in this particular arena.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, yeah, no, of course. I'm concerned, too.

[Sarah Maclean]

I'm concerned. So I'm looking forward to season three from that perspective. I would like to shout out another very favorite line from the whole episode, which is that at the beginning of this episode he shouts, whistle.

[Eric Mortensen]

Oi. I said whistle.

[Sarah Maclean]

On the screen, on the thing. And the reason why is because whistles give him. Wait. Mouth sores. He says. Earlier in the. I'm sorry, earlier in the. In episode seven, he says whistles give him mouth hives. Because everybody's like, why don't you use a whistle? And he's like, whistles give me mouth hives. So he shouts, whistle, whistle. Which I think is great. And then also at 27 minutes, he says, wait.

[Eric Mortensen]

So sometimes the fucking Diamond Dogs is just chatting about shit and no one has to fucking solve anything and nothing fucking changes sometimes. Yeah. That's cool.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I. You know what else I loved about this episode is. Or maybe it's like actually the. The end of the episode, the previous one, there's a point where, like, you just see his jaw twitching. And I was like, that's some real romance hero shit right there. Literally.

[Sarah Maclean]

And then the. The headbutt and then the hug between him and Jaime, which is so bro y. And like, dude. I mean, they've really wrote. I mean, they walked the tightrope of like, make these characters, like super like, dude characters. But give them, like, humanity and let them be nuanced. Let them be. Let them have feeling.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. It's amazing. It really is.

[Sarah Maclean]

And so our Richmond Greyhounds have been promoted.

[Jennifer Prokop]

They have. I actually, literally, I literally forgot. I was like, wait, did they win?

[Sarah Maclean]

And then at the very.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know how not important that was to me.

[Sarah Maclean]

Very end. Ted Lasso makes us another promise, which is we're just gonna have to come back and win the whole fucking thing.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah Maclean]

And that is the plan for next season, hopefully. What a show. And then we find out that Rupert is still an asshole and Nate is now gray haired over there.

[Eric Mortensen]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Running some sort of crazy tight ship of practice.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. Please remember, Nate has still been a coach for like three seconds, so hopefully that'll. Hopefully he is hoisted on his own.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I see a lot of hints that he does not trust himself. He has. He actually does have everything it takes to be a great coach, but he

[Sarah Maclean]

doesn't trust himself because he's young, because he's green.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I don't think he trusts the players. Right. I mean, that's like really clear in the last episode. He's like, they're gonna fuck it up. You know they will. And then you're gonna blame it on me.

[Sarah Maclean]

And that's why you're calling it My play.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And that part's really hard. That's gonna be hard, I think, to watch.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know. 800 hours later, there we did. We did it.

[Sarah Maclean]

All in all, here's where I'm at. I loved this season. I loved that it was very much what happened, what happens, like, after the hea. I love that they had to work through some things. I love that Roy had to grow. I love that Keely was still able to grow, like, in a relationship with him in a way that she wasn't. She was stunted by the relationship with Jamie, but, like, Roy gives her this, like, opportunity to be the better, the best version of herself and him too. Same. And, like, they're just a perfect couple. And please, please don't fuck it up. You guys, seriously, let them be good for each other. Let them be a model for, like, how we should all be with each other in relationships. I have a question for you, which is right at the very. The very first episode where we see them talking about banter. I don't know if it was episode one or when it was, but like, that episode, there is a quick moment where we are led to believe that Rebecca and Ted are texting.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Sarah Maclean]

So my question is, who is Ted texting? And I don't know. If you have theories out there, I'm welcome. I welcome them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know what else? You know what else I. I will say I like about this show is, like, how. I mean, I like, in general, want, like, I'm a romance reader. I want people to find romance. But I love the friendships in this. I love the friendships in the show. I love Keely and Rebecca. I love Rebecca and Leslie. I love Ted and Beard. I love all of these friendships that are so, like, genuine.

[Sarah Maclean]

The diamond dogs.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I just think that there's. It's just so beautiful.

[Sarah Maclean]

Can we just talk about just Keely and Rebecca for one second? Episode 10, that's the Funeral episode. Rupert shows up with new Rebecca and their baby. And at 13 minutes, 20 seconds, Keely says, I hate that baby. I hate that baby. And it's magnificent. And Rebecca is standing there in her full black morning outfit, and then she just says, I love you. And, like, it's so. It really is perfect. And I just. I love it. And like, you should all have friends like you and Sassy. And Sassy, who gives it to Rupert. I will wear red to your funeral. I can't. She's great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's amazing. Yeah, she's great.

[Sarah Maclean]

Listen that Sassy and Keely are perfect. Like make new friends and keep the old.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, exactly right.

[Sarah Maclean]

One is silver and the other is gold. It's very. They are perfect. If I. If I could just claim one sassy and one keely in my life. That's right. Listen, I love this show. I love it more every season I watch.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's so rewarding.

[Sarah Maclean]

Except for that one episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Happy New year, everybody. It's 2022.

[Sarah Maclean]

I know. We hope that you love it. We. Tell us your theories about Ted Lasso. Tell me if I'm right that it. I think it's gonna be Ted and Rebecca in the end. I actually. Oh yeah, here's the thing. I don't know with your theory, right. I was. Listen, well, I don't have to end with my theory, but like I really thought that funeral episode, one of the reasons why I love that episode so much is because of the way that they interconnect. Rebecca coming home to discover her father having an affair and Ted coming home to discover that his father has killed himself. And how, like how these two fathers actions have shaped them both in different, in different ways. Obviously one is much worse than the other. But like Rebecca's like so many of Rebecca's like insecurities and you know, self consciousness and the choices that she made as a person and as a. As a woman and as a wife now, like as a daughter, like all the things that have made her who she is like, happen in that moment, that one moment. And, and same with Ted, right? All of the, everything spills out from that moment.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Ted knows that Nate is the one who, you know, sold him out to Trent Crim. And he doesn't. He's like, look, we've got a job to do, right? This is now not the time for my personal shit. More go out there and coach that game and win that game. And that is I think the other part that's again like that. So that differential between like I can, you know, be a professional, but this is not the time for my personal. And like when he has this panic attack, he like, it's a panic attack. He can't control it. But I, I'm fascinated too by the way that, that that all played out. I think that show's so brilliant. There's so much, so much.

[Sarah Maclean]

Well, maybe it is good that we're ending with this because I do also think, like part of this is about faded mates. Like it feels like in that moment, in that back and forth, I wrote it down like it's. Rebecca and Ted were fated. Not necessarily as lovers, but like they're fated to be together. Like they're two halves of their story is the same. You know, like all of these characters, many. Like many of these characters feel fated for each other in some way.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Once they can be open and vulnerable.

[Sarah Maclean]

Happy New Year, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Happy New Year, Sarah.

[Sarah Maclean]

I hope it's better. It's gonna be better. It's gonna be okay. Don't tell everyone what you said to me earlier this week. Staying quiet. No, it is. It's gonna be better this year. It's gonna be great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We'll be back with trailblazers. Our next read along is Passion by Lisa Valdez. Whoo.

[Sarah Maclean]

Yeah. I mean, start as you mean to go on, is what I'm saying about that. For 2022. Content warnings, maybe. Probably. Let's be honest.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Probably.

[Sarah Maclean]

Check Goodreads, if that's a concern. Definitely. If you have cervix issues, you know, heads up on that and. All right, you can find [e-mail] or on Twitter @fademates or on Instagram @fatedmatespod. We are produced by Eric Mortensen, and this year we've got some really fun stuff planned. And we hope you're reading a fabulous romance novel to start the new year right. Sam.