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Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
RERUN: S06.09: Sports Romance with Jessica Luther
01:23:54
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- [00:00]
Sarah McLean
Okay. This is so exciting. We're so excited. You know, we've done the sports romance episode a number of times. Twice right before Jen.
- [00:12]
Jen Prokop
Yeah.
- [00:12]
Sarah McLean
And, you know, so we've had a lot to say about, you know, sports and balls. And sports balls. But this time we're gonna do it right because we asked. Jessica Luther, sports expert, investigative journalist, author, podcaster, who has worked extensively on the Internet, intersection of sports and gender, and also specifically gendered violence and fun Fact, is a big romance reader. And I know Jessica from long before her book Unsportsmanlike Conduct and Loving Sport, because you have been a historical romance reader and we met that way. So welcome, Jessica Luther.
- [00:59]
Jessica Luther
Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled. I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you.
- [01:04]
Sarah McLean
We are so excited because you are also. You have had. You are no longer doing Burn it down, right?
- [01:10]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, I did Burn It all down, which was a feminist sports podcast with four of my friends. It was five women co hosting, and we did that for about five and a half years. We went on hiatus a year ago and we're still technically on hiatus. There's some behind the scenes things happening. But the podcast ended about a year ago. But there's a lot of good stuff in that back catalog. We, I think we did a lot of good analysis within sports, if that's something that your listeners are interested in. You can find a lot of good, like, feminist sports stuff there.
- [01:42]
Sarah McLean
And also I mentioned that you're a writer, but your second book, which is Loving Sports, When They Don't Love youe Back Dilemmas of the Modern Sports Fan, is really fascinating because it is all about, like, in a lot of ways, how to be a woman who loves sports.
- [01:59]
Jessica Luther
Yeah. How to be a marginalized person and love sports. I'm sure that we'll get into this about why I love sports romance novels as someone who also criticizes sports all the time. But it's just, it can be so difficult to sort of break into a sports space because they're so manufactured. They're created to be exclusive. And we could certainly talk about this with Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey.
- [02:27]
Sarah McLean
I feel like that's going to feel like the perfect.
- [02:30]
Jessica Luther
Talking about. Yeah. Of the way that men in particular freak out when, you know, white men in particular freak out when anyone tries to enter the sports space and be there in any kind of way, forget a serious way. And so, yeah, the book is very much about, like, the issues that you face.
- [02:51]
Jen Prokop
I, like, really had this in my face very recently in a real way, which is so My husband is a huge sports fan. We live in Chicago, and we are season ticket holders to the Chicago Sky. So this is like the WNBA is the sports. We went to 20 games this year, and it was awesome. The season before, we just went to five games, and we just loved it so much that I was like, let's just do more of this. And then the year before when they won, we actually were at the game when they won. Like, I came home and it was kind of like, daryl, did you know the Chicago sky were in the WNBA finals? And he was like, he's kind of like, I don't. You know, he's a big basketball guy, but he hadn't followed WNBA at that point. And he was like, wait, they have Candace Parker. I mean, she's like a superstar. So we went to this game, and it was this amazing experience. And I am just like. It changed me. Like, I'm a huge WNBA fan. I don't really understand basketball, but I love watching women be awesome, right? So we go to these games, and it's like, them this great experience. And then for his birthday, cause he's a huge Raiders fan. We talked about maybe going to a game in Vegas. We used to live in Oakland. We were Raiders season tickets holders for a while. And it was really funny because I went to a couple games, he went to all of them. And it was like this thing where every time he went to a Raiders game, he would come home and tell me about a fight he witnessed. And I was like, look, I love the Raiders. Like, I'm a fan.
- [04:13]
Sarah McLean
There's no appeal to that.
- [04:14]
Jen Prokop
I love the fight, right? But so anyway, I haven't been to, like, a men's professional game in a really long time, but I bought him the Bears Raiders ticket so this last weekend, and immediately I was like, this is a very different vibe from the wnba. And this woman was sitting next to me. Like, we just bought tickets off, like, StubHub or whatever, and they had like, six season tickets, so it's like four behind her. And then she and her son's girlfriend are sitting next to me, and she was like, she's like, it's a lot of angry men. Like, she's like. It's just, like, a lot of anger because they're not having a very good season. They didn't end up winning that game. And I was floored. I'd sort of forgotten that the vibe of being a fan in a men's sports space is so much different than the vibe of being a WNBA fan. And I Was like, I think I'm done. I'm just going to stick with the WNBA now forever. I'm good.
- [05:09]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. I mean, so many people love sports because there's an emotional journey and then eventually some kind of catharsis, whether it's a high or a low. And that's part of what. But no stakes. Like, there's no material difference to your actual life and your ability to live based on whatever the outcome is.
- [05:29]
Sarah McLean
You wouldn't believe that necessarily from the way I grew up in. In Patriots country and Red Sox country. And like, when things win, when you win a major thing like cars get flipped like it's crazy out there.
- [05:43]
Jessica Luther
That's what. You can put all the emotion into it because the actual outcome doesn't materially affect your ability to pay rent and live most of the time. Unless you're gambling, my goodness. But yeah, so you get so much emotion. And men often get real angry when they're in groups together. That's the one that comes through I. To this day, like, when I go to women's sporting events, I almost. Well, I mean, I cry about everything, let's just be clear. But I will cry at the beginning of most of those events because I'm just so thrilled that this is, like a thing I'm able to attend and be a part of and see, like, growing up. I was born in 1980. I'm very tall. I'm six feet tall. You can't tell that, especially for listeners. And like, I played middle school basketball. I was not good at it, which was why I say specifically middle school basketball, because I stopped there. But it was so hard to be a fan of women's basketball. My parents had bought me a giant coffee table book of just pictures and I assume it had texts that went with it. But what I remember, the pictures of women playing basketball, collegiate basketball. And I would just flip through that because that was the thing that I had. And so I still get emotional. My emotions tied to being able to watch women play sports are just so different than what I myself would carry into a men's sporting event. If I guess I go to men's soccer. We have a men's soccer team here now a professional one. And next season will be season ticket holders. But even that's different because they're constructing that fandom from the ground up. It's a very different kind of thing, which is part of why I'm willing to participate in it. Because I'm with you, Jen. Like, you get in Those spaces. And you're like, oh, well. Nope. Yeah, I was like, for me.
- [07:27]
Jen Prokop
Well. And my husband's really fascinated with this very tall man who plays for the Spurs.
- [07:33]
Jessica Luther
Wembley.
- [07:34]
Jen Prokop
Yeah. I don't remember you guys. I'm sorry. Like, sports people. And I was like, well, maybe we could go see the spurs play the Bulls. Like, maybe that would be fun. And I was like, hold on. How much are these tickets and in these.
- [07:47]
Sarah McLean
And I was just like, oh, are they really just.
- [07:49]
Jen Prokop
No. Yeah. Like, insane. And I was like, you know what? I just don't. I did not have a good enough time at this Bears game to want to go to, like, a Bulls game. You know what I mean? It was just really interesting. I was kind of like, I really. It was a shocking kind of experience to be like, oh, this is why I love going to the sky.
- [08:10]
Jessica Luther
One of the interesting things that they find when they look at women's participation in sport, girls and women's participation in sports, is that there's often a pretty high participation within grade school. Right. Because we have title nine in the U.S. most girls, in some way are interacting with sports. A lot of them like it. A lot of them will play, and that starts to fall off when they go into college and then especially once they're out of college, even as fans. And I think, Jen, you're, like, part of that is exactly what you're talking about. They're like, wait a second. This is not the sporting culture that I was a part of. I don't actually want to participate in this. I'm not. I'm clearly not included. Right. We're not idiots. Like, we know when we go there that we're not, like, they'll sell a.
- [08:51]
Jen Prokop
Pink Bulls jersey or whatever, but it's not really for me.
- [08:54]
Jessica Luther
Yeah. And so you see this, like, steep drop off in, like, women's sports fandom as they get older. And I think, like, when I was thinking about sports romance novels and why people like them so much, this is one of the reasons, I think, because it allows you a way in that feels safer. Like a world that's been constructed specifically for us as readers. That is often a totally different culture than what we actually experience in real life in relationship to sports that might be closer to what we imagine or what we remember from our past. But even if it's not, it's at least some kind of safer sporting culture that we get to. That. That's true for me. Like, that is. Yeah. I absolutely recognize that when I'm working on terrible pieces about abuse and sports. My refuge is reading about really nice people in sports who love and care for each other. Right? You're like, I don't even care. This is real.
- [09:55]
Jen Prokop
And so, yeah, it's like, there's a way in as the reader. But also, teamwork is really valued, right? People do the right thing. We had a really interesting conversation with the Jane Ann Krentz, who pointed out that, like, in genre fiction, people are called upon to do the right thing. So, you know, if there's some sort of, like, dilemma about, like, the team or, you know, someone's a bad guy on the team, like, they're gonna do the right thing like that. So it's a way of just, like, sort of reading almost like this kind of fairy tale, like, experience. And it's also like, as you said, like, it doesn't matter if you don't know the rules, right? Like, the book is gonna teach you what you need to know about the play as it relates to the character. Right. And their performance, not necessarily as it relates to, like, the experience of the crowd or, like, the shame or anger or, like, any of those other things.
- [10:46]
Sarah McLean
Well, and also, Jessica mentioned stakes, right. The appeal of sports in general is this sort of sense of, like, you know, the old battle, the, like, you know, Roman gladiator shit. And so you feel like there are stakes in the sport, but romance is really the. It's the literature of stakes in a lot of ways. Like, stakes on every level. And so as. So it feels like, intuitive that as readers, as romance readers, people who understand the genre intuitively, we are drawn to books that are about where the characters have stakes, are having emotional stakes, and they are about something that also has a really concrete external stake.
- [11:35]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think one of the most obvious places where sports romance novels are doing work against the sports culture is whenever you have a gay romance in sports where they're both players, right? They are. We could certainly talk about Katie Casey's baseball books, but. And a lot of them are, like, these men working within this culture that obviously does not like them. And so you get it. Often you get a different kind of story. Like, you do get the. You do get the stories where it resolves in the last few chapters, and then they're together. But sometimes you get stories where they're together early on, and then the actual struggle is against, like, the homophobia that they're experiencing within their own sport. And then the triumph happened. You know, it's coming, right? So, like, you can count on that. So you're willing to Sort of go on this journey with them. There are also. And I don't have any by name. I apologize. But I've definitely read books where it's, like, Schitt's Creek, where homophobia does not exist. Like, what if we imagined a sporting culture where two men could just be together on a team? Like, there will be teams where all the men. It's like with wnba, it's like the hockey version or the baseball version or something of the wnba where, like, all the players are dating each other and they're happy and together, and, like, homophobia is not even a part of that. And I. I think that's such a. There's so much beauty in that, that romance novels allow for, that sports itself does not. And to me, yeah, that's. I'm going to gravitate towards that. I want to see that in the real world much, much more than I think I will in my lifetime.
- [13:10]
Jen Prokop
I can do the second one, but, like, the first one where, like, they're really dealing with the homophobia. I mean, especially, like, in hockey, Like. Like, if there's a sports romance that, like, everyone loves. Have you read Rachel Reid's Heated Rivalry?
- [13:25]
Jessica Luther
I don't think I have, but I'm also terrible at titles.
- [13:28]
Sarah McLean
No, no. And it's fine.
- [13:29]
Jen Prokop
And the only reason I'd, like, raise it is because they are, like, closeted. Like, they're. It's Ilia, I think, and Shane. And they've essentially, like. The book opens with them, like, essentially, like, on the ice, like, at each other's throats. Right? And. And then the next scene or whatever transitions. And everybody. If I'm getting these details wrong, I'm sorry. This book is beloved. They're lovers, and they've been secretly hooking up when they're in the same town or the same city forever, but they're totally closeted. And for me, it's been. I really struggled within the news that the NHL banned pride tape on, like, hockey sticks.
- [14:14]
Jessica Luther
And I'm the tiniest thing, right? The tiniest thing. And they were like, not this.
- [14:18]
Jen Prokop
No.
- [14:19]
Jessica Luther
Yeah.
- [14:19]
Jen Prokop
And I really am fascinated by, like. I mean. And I mean, I'll just say it. Like, there's a way in which I find hockey romance in particular right now to be, like, almost, like. I don't know. Like, it just seems real wrong. Like, I'm, like, here it is, like, so wildly popular. It's super white. And, you know, I felt like that's something we used to talk about with hockey romance. Like, boy, it used to be football Romance. And then all of a sudden it was hockey romance. And now that conversation just seems to be gone and it's kind of like, well, what's our responsibility? I mean. And I say responsibility is maybe the wrong word. Like, it's fantasy. Nobody has any responsibility. Write the books you want. But there is part of me that's fascinated by the rise of hockey romance without the discussion about hockey as like sort of a problem.
- [15:10]
Jessica Luther
Yeah. I mean, you live in Chicago and they. Their NHL team has had horrific, like, abuse. I don't even say, like, reports of abuse that have. Within, like the team against players and. Oh, like.
- [15:27]
Sarah McLean
Like internal.
- [15:28]
Jessica Luther
Oh, yeah. They hid sexual assault against a player in order to not. It was when they went to. When they won the championship and they. They admitted. We did not tell anybody because we did not want this to hurt our championship run. Like, just very.
- [15:44]
Sarah McLean
Wow.
- [15:45]
Jessica Luther
So, yeah, I find all the issues hockey. It's so interesting that so many people love hockey romances. I do think race is a. It's a big, big part of that. It's a very white sport. And so you don't have to worry about writing around that. But.
- [16:02]
Jen Prokop
Right, right.
- [16:03]
Jessica Luther
I think it's. I mean, this is just a problem in general, though, Jen. I think if you're going to go into the sports world, like, I. Yeah, I wrote a whole book about all the issues within sports. And I don't know, I think there's so much wrong with. With sports and with like, I read a book again, I will not remember the name. I'm so sorry. But it was college football, white quarterback. And he was dating the coach's daughter, who was amazing. Like, she had been through a big trauma. I think maybe her sister had died and she'd taken up pole dancing and that was like her thing. And I loved this book. I did not think I would read it. Loved it. But, you know, I don't have, like, a high opinion of coaches. I have seen too much in my life. I try to start. My idea of them starts in a neutral place and I try to start in a neutral place and move from there rather than. I think most people start very high on coaches. And so when they do something wrong, it's like, could they have really done that? Because they are. They chose to be a coach. So, like, in this book, she's the coach's daughter. And like, the dad's not perfect, but he is a good man, you know, And I just. There's some. And I just have to ignore that. I just have to be like, that's a trope. People love it. They are not me. They don't spend their days thinking about this. I'm not. You know, I love these two characters. I love what she did with this woman. I'm just gonna run with it. But I do have to do a lot of that kind of work myself while I'm reading these books, because there's so much in sports that is when you look at actual sports, you cannot square what you're reading.
- [17:42]
Jen Prokop
So many sports romances. The athlete is the man.
- [17:45]
Jessica Luther
Yeah. Oh, I'm ready for this part. Because I love when it.
- [17:51]
Jen Prokop
Well, I found myself thinking that it's a. To me, I wonder if it's because it's like a shortcut to him having emotions.
- [17:58]
Jessica Luther
Yeah. Cause the season is emotional. You can build it right in.
- [18:02]
Sarah McLean
I think there's a second piece to that, though. Yes, absolutely. I think it's emotions you're able to see. Like you're. You know, here's a man who feels joy and sorrow and literal pain and emotional pain like you have no choice.
- [18:13]
Jen Prokop
The camaraderie of his friends and his team there.
- [18:17]
Sarah McLean
That's the part that I'm really fascinated by. So, obviously, there's a lot of discussion in the world, and there's a lot of discussion about whether or not this is actually a real thing or something that we need to worry about. But there's a lot of discussion in the world, and I think it's legitimate in many ways that men in America, specifically in the United States, struggle to make and keep friendships and maintain friendships, maintain communities of other men with whom they can be honest and have, like, valuable relationships outside of romance. Right. And I think that. And that certainly becomes a burden, you know, if you have a partner who is a man and you. It becomes the burden of women in a lot of ways, in a relationship, to build and maintain a community of friends for couples and children and to model friendship. And, you know, Jen and I have been talking about this a lot in general, but, you know, these kinds of burdens. And they do feel like burdens in a lot of ways, even though friends are not burdens, but, like, the work of friendship falls to women. But in these books, largely, especially when you're talking about huge book series where, you know, where characters are all. It is almost entirely men on a team. So I'm thinking about, like, the, you know, Kate Meader hockey series or the Serena Bowen hockey series or, you know, even Susan Elizabeth Phillips with, you know, football. Naima Simone with football. Like, these books deliver a fantasy where Men are carrying the water of friendship.
- [20:01]
Jen Prokop
Yeah.
- [20:02]
Sarah McLean
For the communities. Right. So then Naima's whole series is called like the WAG series. Right? Well, wives and girlfriends. And they become. The wives and girlfriends become friends. But they are made friends and kept friends by a community of men who build. Build the community and do the work of keeping it there.
- [20:25]
Jen Prokop
Yeah. I mean, that seems amazing. Honestly.
- [20:27]
Sarah McLean
Fantasy, right?
- [20:29]
Jen Prokop
Yeah.
- [20:30]
Sarah McLean
Like if somebody else could plan what we were doing every Saturday night. I mean, I don't want to dream. I know, right? And I do think like that fan. If we talk about romances, like being a reflection of like what we want out of the world. Right. Like our. Our desires and expectations in the world, it's sort of impossible not to think about it in terms of what sports. What sports romance does is really combat male loneliness. I mean, I hate that phrase, but you know what I mean.
- [21:01]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, no, that's really great. I like that idea. The other thing I was thinking a lot about, um, Bobby Knight died yesterday. Day before famous what? Indiana famous Angry man. Yeah, like the angriest man. Like a bully. Like a. Just a true tormentor of his athletes. Like for me, I don't care that he won championships. Cause he really had to belittle a lot of people to do it. Uh, and the way that I was just thinking about this, that there's a way that sports are just built to dehumanize athletes that like, we sometimes do it with coaches. Like there are people auxiliary to sport that this will bleed onto. But it's mainly athletes. And I think part of being a sports fan, especially talk about angry male sports fans, is that they get to just yell whatever they want at these people, to think whatever they want about them, to really tear into them and unleash a lot of shit. Am I allowed to?
- [21:57]
Jen Prokop
Right? Oh, yes, absolutely.
- [21:58]
Jessica Luther
Unleash a lot of shit onto these athletes. Then you have to really not care about them as actual people in order to do that. And I think that's probably true just across the board, whether or not it's men or women as athletes. But I think, you know, men tend to do this more. And so like, think of someone like Bobby Knight. Everyone wants to talk about the championships. And I'm like, all I want to do is talk about these athletes, like clearly over and over and over again. This man harmed. And there's something for me too, when like, part of what we love about romance in general is characters, right? Just the character building. And like, Sarah talked about the world around them. But there's something so Beautiful in some ways. About, like, you get these in depth character studies of people in sport that's often stripped out of so much of what we think about when we think about athletes. And you get to see their entire world. You meet their moms and what they eat for breakfast and, like what their dog's name is and, you know. And you can get that from profiles in sports media. Absolutely. We love to profile an athlete. But there's something else here where, like, as a sports fan, I love seeing a fully rounded. It helps remind me that these are fully rounded people and that I often don't know shit about any of them in.
- [23:17]
Jen Prokop
In.
- [23:18]
Jessica Luther
In real life. And I think that's another thing that you're getting out of reading these novels. That's something I'm getting out of reading these novels.
- [23:24]
Jen Prokop
I mean, I like a book with a lot of plot. I like a book with a lot of stakes. And so, you know, they're gonna march towards something the end of the season. They're gonna. Right. Have to grapple with the idea of being traded or an injury or, you know, an accident. And so I feel like that's the other thing. The other reason I like them is, you know, I like a book where things happen and, you know, things are gonna happen in a sports romance. And I feel really grateful for, like, the external structure that that is. Builds that right into the system that makes me.
- [23:57]
Jessica Luther
I also think I'm one of these people. I love when time progresses. Like, I'm not. I don't. My personal thing is I don't love like a. They meet in one week, they're in love, and it's over. I like when there's time and it builds.
- [24:13]
Sarah McLean
Yeah.
- [24:13]
Jessica Luther
And like, often built into. Because it's built around us. He is not always true. Certainly they appear in sports romance.
- [24:20]
Jen Prokop
There's more time. Yeah.
- [24:21]
Jessica Luther
Yeah. But there is something about. I think that's part of it for me too, is that you often do, like you said, Jen, get like a season worth of stuff going on.
- [24:30]
Sarah McLean
Well, and also, you can't discount. You know, we talk a lot now on the podcast about, like, the Venn diagrams of a lot of these tropes. Right. Like, but part of the itch that sports romance can scratch is the celebrity piece as well. Right. This idea that this. And it's not just larger than life celebrity, it's larger than life celebrity who has like a perfect, like, is technically perfect. Right. Like, their body functions in, like, a perfect way. And they're wanted by every human.
- [25:06]
Jen Prokop
Right.
- [25:07]
Sarah McLean
Right. For whatever Reason.
- [25:09]
Jessica Luther
Absolutely. I had written the word bodies in all caps. That's part of why people love sports romance. Because you just.
- [25:16]
Sarah McLean
Jen likes to say it all the time that, like, part of the appeal of the sports romance is that they can like pick you up and spin you around and absolutely can have sex upside down and.
- [25:26]
Jen Prokop
Oh, I actually. Wait, I'm not like, wait, that's on my list. Not upside down, but like a lot of upper body strength is on my list.
- [25:35]
Sarah McLean
Yeah.
- [25:35]
Jessica Luther
And there's an amazing SNL skit. Have you seen this?
- [25:38]
Jen Prokop
I don't know.
- [25:39]
Jessica Luther
It's about.
- [25:40]
Jen Prokop
Yes.
- [25:41]
Sarah McLean
The football players.
- [25:42]
Jessica Luther
Yes. Where you hire the football players with the tiny men and they bring the like, big football players in to do.
- [25:48]
Sarah McLean
Like Chelsea brothers come and lift you up.
- [25:51]
Jessica Luther
Lift you up to do all that part of it. For the men who are unable to do that for their romantic partners. It's such an idea that even SNL.
- [26:00]
Jen Prokop
Has, even SNL realized, like, this is sexy.
- [26:03]
Jessica Luther
Yes.
- [26:04]
Jen Prokop
We should name. I looked up your book was actually very easy to find about the point of view.
- [26:08]
Jessica Luther
Well, I had told you about it. Yeah, yeah.
- [26:10]
Jen Prokop
And I was like, I can Google that. No. And I was like, so it's. Is this the right one? Quarterback sneak by Candy Steiner.
- [26:16]
Jessica Luther
Yep. The pole dancing woman. I enjoyed it very much. Yes.
- [26:23]
Jen Prokop
This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Elle Kennedy, author of the Graham Effect. And if you read the deal, Jen.
- [26:34]
Sarah McLean
I mean, we both love the deal. And this is second generation Graham, the hero of the deal, has had a daughter, Gigi. And Gigi has exactly three goals.
- [26:43]
Jen Prokop
Jen, I love how romance generation is like five years long. Like how old are long ago is the deal.
- [26:48]
Sarah McLean
Fine. Listen, I am so ready for daddy Graham. So, so ready anyway. Or daddy Garrett. Okay, one, she wants to qualify for the women's national hockey team. Two, she wants to win Olympic gold. And three, she wants to get out from underneath her famous father's shadow. So, so, so far, so good. She's qualified for the team. However, she needs a little bit of improvement in her game behind the net. And so she is paired up with Luke Ryder, who is 6 foot 5, built, opinionated, rude, and sexy as hell. Now listen, he is the co captain of this hockey team.
- [27:33]
Jen Prokop
Wrap it up. I'm ready to buy.
- [27:34]
Sarah McLean
Sarah. He is a rival and they. He's got a summer coaching spot that he's angling for and he needs Garrett Graham, the legendary Garrett Graham to help him get there. Um, I'm guessing like banging the banging. The boss's daughter is not the Best.
- [27:52]
Jen Prokop
Way to do that.
- [27:53]
Sarah McLean
But I believe in us, Jen. I believe everything's gonna work out fine. And I can't wait. I'm like running to read.
- [28:02]
Jen Prokop
All right, the Graham Effect, everybody. Is available in print, ebook and audio in Kindle Unlimited. Also, if you would like, an exclusive paperback with extended chapters is also available at Barnes and Noble. So you guys, you're ready to hit that? It is the Graham Effect by Elle Kennedy. Oh, I just wanted to slap shot that into the net, everybody. Woo.
- [28:24]
Sarah McLean
They're not the only ones slap shotting things.
- [28:27]
Jen Prokop
All right, we're gonna stop now.
- [28:28]
Sarah McLean
Anyway. All right, thanks to Elle Kennedy for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [28:35]
Jen Prokop
So do we wanna talk about books and then sort of like talk about some more things as we do that or do it?
- [28:41]
Sarah McLean
Okay, I have some things. I do feel like there is some things like we've already talked about that I don't have. Like, great exam. I have examples of. You know, for example, like, I think if you really want that celebrity, if you, like me, love a celebrity. That Sawyer Bennett hockey series, which is like the Cold Fury series. I think all the hero. All the names are. All the books are named for men. Like just. They're like read like Rider. I don't think there's a writer, but like they all, you know, and it is like the pure like basically like Navy Seals, but make them hockey in the sense that. Which is like. That is a real like kind of. It's not a trope, but it is. We can see that theme over and over again in romance. But like, there are just 10 of them. They are one after another. They're very. They go down real easy. And I actually have. I listen to them on audio to and from school pickup. Because like, they go down real easy and you don't have to remember. So like, if you skip a day, it's fine. But those are really fun. And there's my favorite one is Reid, and she is. He is a hockey player who doesn't like the spotlight. And he's bought a very nice townhouse. And his next door neighbor is an emergency room doctor. And there's this great party. I will say there's a party scene in this book that I really love. Cause it delivers all of those great moments where every player in the ho. This is. All the men on the hockey team have come to a party at one of their houses. I think it's a Stanley Cup. Like they've won the Stanley cup and now they're at this like celebratory party. And they have all brought their partners with them. So again, it's that sort of like, this party has been planned by a man for all of his men friends. And you just get to go and hang out with all of these people. It's great.
- [30:44]
Jessica Luther
That's so nice.
- [30:45]
Sarah McLean
And then someone from an older book goes into labor. And then the heroine, because she's an emergency room doctor, is like, I'm here. So there's a little competence porn happening here. And then he's like, oh, my God, I gotta bang her. Cause she's in Amazing, but she's busy delivering a baby.
- [31:03]
Jen Prokop
Yeah.
- [31:04]
Jessica Luther
I love that. I did when I was thinking about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. I don't know why it hit on me. But, like, Kristen Callahan has a book called Make It Sweet, which is about a former hockey player who is not okay with being a former hockey player. He's had to leave because he had so many concussions.
- [31:22]
Sarah McLean
This is my favorite, by the way. And his, like, archetype, like the Roy Kent of it all.
- [31:28]
Jessica Luther
Like, yes, yes, it is Grumpy Sunshine. And he is like, his grandmother and her grandmother are friends, I want to say. And his grandmother owns this, like, amazing palatial estate outside of, like, Palm Springs somewhere in California. And she is on, like, a Game of Thrones type of show and is about. Her character is about to be killed off. But most people don't know that. But she's in. She's very famous.
- [31:53]
Jen Prokop
Yeah.
- [31:53]
Jessica Luther
And she needs to go somewhere to figure out what's next in her life now that everyone's about to find out that her character has died. And so her grandmother's like, you should go stay with my friends. You know, my friend who has this palatial state, just so happens that the hockey player is living there as well.
- [32:09]
Sarah McLean
He's also a chef. Right.
- [32:11]
Jessica Luther
He's a baker.
- [32:12]
Sarah McLean
He's a baker.
- [32:13]
Jessica Luther
He's a secret, secret baker. And so you just have these two people at this point in their life where they don't know where they're going and they're not sure what's next, but they've both been at the highest of highs in their careers. And he is really not doing well with the retirement, which is.
- [32:32]
Sarah McLean
Well, there's nothing really compelling about that idea, too, that, like, all. Like, all sports, at some point, when you are at. It's almost like when you are at the moment where everyone else in the whole world is just hitting their, like, super duper stride. You are too old.
- [32:49]
Jen Prokop
You are.
- [32:50]
Sarah McLean
Yeah, like the rest of us, we hit 40. And we're like, now we're, like, making our money and, like, comfortable in our job and feeling like we have some sort of plan. Maybe most of us, hopefully, but, like, not in sports.
- [33:08]
Jessica Luther
No. Isn't it the most depressing thing when you're watching, they're like. They're so old. They turned and they're like 20 years old.
- [33:15]
Sarah McLean
And then imagine being 33. And like, everyone in the whole world is like, well, now your life is over.
- [33:22]
Jen Prokop
You're done.
- [33:23]
Sarah McLean
But you have 60 years, potentially.
- [33:26]
Jessica Luther
You've got a long way to go. But yeah, yeah, I have one that.
- [33:30]
Jen Prokop
I can talk about that kind of relates to that, which is. I don't know what. I kind of have two, but I want to save the other one. So one of it's funny because this is like a real old school one, which is. I really love this book Lady Be Good by Susan Elizabeth Phillips, about a golfer. His name is Kenny Travelers. Right.
- [33:47]
Sarah McLean
He's his favorite trope, too. Like, retiring.
- [33:50]
Jen Prokop
Oh, yeah. And he is actually not ne. He's off of the pro tour because he has, like, pissed off the, you know, whoever's in charge who happens to be, like, his stepdad, of course. And what happens is this is all set in Austin, by the way, or like in Texas. Lady Emma, she's like, literally a British aristocrat. Like, her dad was a viscount or something. You know, who knows? Gets sent. Yeah, she's going to Texas to do some research. And essentially Kenny gets tasked with driving her around. She does not realize that he is this professional athlete. She just thinks he's the laziest man alive. He's just slow. Everything he does is slow. He just wanders away from her, and she's like, come on, Kenny. But the thing that I really like about this book is that the thing about Kenny is he was this phenom as a kid and he was really spoiled. So it really channels, like, that kind of jock archetype where he just was this spoiled brat who was awesome at golf and got all the attention in his family because of it. And he enters the PGA when he's really young, and he has to really make restitution for the kind of asshole that he was when he was younger because of the way people were like, well, you're great at this sport, so we're just gonna lionize you. And I think it's like a really interesting way of, you know, I mean, it was like, when I think about, like, a sports book that's like, doing something interesting with, like, that character it's like that golf has been this gift for him, but also this curse, right. It just came really easily to him and he was great at it. And because of that, he got treated a certain way that turned him almost into a monster. And now he's trying to sort of like do the right thing. And it's like a really fascinating look at the way that, like, being a. Being brilliant at a sport can really fuck a man up, essentially.
- [35:52]
Sarah McLean
Yeah.
- [35:52]
Jessica Luther
Yeah.
- [35:52]
Sarah McLean
Well, where do you go from here?
- [35:54]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, I like that. I have not read that one.
- [35:57]
Jen Prokop
It's from like the 90s, so it's definitely sir, but it is hilarious and it's great and I loved it. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Isabel Morin, author of the Whole Truth.
- [36:13]
Sarah McLean
Okay, so this one is for anybody who, like, maybe loved the Love Hypothesis and wants it to be a touch darker. I think that one would go that this will work for them. Audrey Donnelly is in her last semester of college and it seems starts off with a bang.
- [36:30]
Jen Prokop
The best kind of bang.
- [36:31]
Sarah McLean
Sexy grad student Jude Driscoll takes her to bed and shows her what she's been missing over the past four years. But obviously there's a little push pull here. They're super into each other. They have a ton in common. But he is a grad student and she is an undergrad. And so there's a little bit of like, is this the right thing for us? But here's the thing. Audrey's in a journalism program and she has a plan to be a big time investigative investigative journalist. She gets a hot tip for her next article that the star English professor at this university is preying on young women and she decides she is going to break this story. Here's the problem. He's Jude's favorite professor, and so she needs to kind of use the relationship with Jude or her. Her interactions with Jude to get herself kind of chameleon into all of her investigations. And this makes it so that there's a little bit of a lie here. Maybe she hasn't told him everything that she needs to tell him. And is he as good of a guy as she thinks he is? I think it's probably all gonna work out there anyway.
- [37:44]
Jen Prokop
We love a book with secrets, right? So this has big potential for everybody who loves, you know, those college romances where everything is so high stakes you can find the whole truth wherever ebooks are sold. Thank you to Isabel Horan for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [38:04]
Jessica Luther
Like if you love a sport, it the book exists like I'm talking any. I found a book today about curling. Like, it's what? Yes. And it's a. It's a. What do we ff? How do we. What's the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an ff. Let me. Let me find it. Hold on. I'm gonna tell you now that I've said it. It's by Rachel Spangler. I was actually. I love her book Edge of Glory, which is about two winter Olympians. And so I was looking into, like, what other stuff she had written. And she's written Fire and Ice, which. Where one of the protagonists is the skipper on a champion Olympic curling team. Like, literally, if you love a sport, someone does the romance novel for you. Yeah.
- [38:40]
Sarah McLean
So that is how I came to this episode, because I was like, we've done two sports episodes. Like, we've talked about, you know, the big sports. So I was like, I'm gonna do books about sports that, like, people don't think about. So I am gonna start with one that I think is about to become very big, which is F1. I think we are about to come.
- [39:02]
Jessica Luther
I have. I also have F1 1, so I'm excited to hear which one you have.
- [39:05]
Sarah McLean
I mean, I just think, like, F1 is just looking at the announcements of what gets everybody out there. There's a newsletter that gets sent out every morning, and it shows, like, what books have been purchased. And there are many, many F1 books that are coming in the next year or two.
- [39:23]
Jessica Luther
I live in Austin, where we have what is called the US Grand Prix. There's actually three F1 races this year in the US but Austin is the original US one. And my friend, Dr. Amira Rose Davis, who loves sports romance novels and loves F1 sports romance novels, she and I went this year because we both are now addicted to the sport because of drive to survive on Netflix. Like, we are part of that group. And, like, every year now, they're setting records for how many people are showing up to this. It's not accessible. It's just track. It's way outside of town because people love it. So that makes total sense to me, Sarah, that, like, people are clamoring for F1, so.
- [40:00]
Sarah McLean
Oh, go ahead.
- [40:01]
Jen Prokop
What is gonna say everybody? There is actual. A small romance podcast called Racy Books where they only talk about F1 romance.
- [40:09]
Sarah McLean
What?
- [40:09]
Jen Prokop
And it's Hannah Ernest here. Hannah Ernest, who is, like, a romance author I know, and my friend.
- [40:17]
Sarah McLean
Everybody, go listen to that.
- [40:19]
Jen Prokop
There are two Chicagoans Racy books.
- [40:21]
Jessica Luther
Thank you, Jen. I'm nailing everything, Jen.
- [40:24]
Jen Prokop
I'M sorry, you know what? I hate to say it. Cause I've never really been a car racing person, but listen, Summer NASCAR was in Chicago and I was like, okay, that looks cool as hell. I'm sorry.
- [40:34]
Jessica Luther
Maybe you should watch Drive to Survive. It will get you.
- [40:36]
Jen Prokop
Okay.
- [40:37]
Jessica Luther
The soap opera version of F1. It's so well done.
- [40:40]
Sarah McLean
My dad. You may not know this, Jessica, but lots of listeners do. My dad was Italian and we. I mean, like, we watched F1 every weekend. Like, that was what was on the television. Soccer. Excuse me, football.
- [40:54]
Jessica Luther
And.
- [40:56]
Sarah McLean
And F1. And that was what was on. I do think it's really interesting you said Drive to Survive and I mentioned Ted Lasso earlier. And we've been talking about. You know, I think that there is something really fascinating about the interplay right now between what media, what TV is happening, or, like, what streamers are running and how it is impacting sports. Right. I talked about. Was it on the episode or on one of the Patreon episodes about the Beckham documentary and how, like, that has brought so much more attention to, you know, the Miami soccer team and Ted Lasso, like, so I do think. And now Taylor Swift. You brought this up at the beginning. It's not like American football was not a huge thing to begin with. But one of my favorite genres of TikTok and it's to. What we sort of really started with this episode is women filming their partners as they say the words. It's so cool that Taylor Swift really put Travis Kelce on the map and like, the partners just, poof. The tops of their heads fly off. Like, how could you possibly feel that way? But, like, I think. And then the NFL has been absolutely playing into it.
- [42:19]
Jessica Luther
Oh, yeah. Why wouldn't. Taylor Swift is gigantic.
- [42:22]
Jen Prokop
Exactly.
- [42:22]
Jessica Luther
She's gigantic. Yeah. She's a force.
- [42:26]
Sarah McLean
What's really fascinating right now, and actually a couple days ago, I saw there was an announcement of a pop star and a football player romance, like, purchase. I mean, like, that's gonna be a huge thing too. But anyway, I wanna talk about. I'm getting past myself. I wanna talk about Tamara Lush's Drive, which is an F1 romance. The hero Dante on is an Italian tamer's married to an actual Italian from Italy. And she gets it right. And so Dante is like the most arrogant, most Italian, Most like, fantastic F1 driver in the world. And the team is sponsored by a particular kind of. Like, obviously it has a car sponsorship, but it also has. There's like a. Like a Michelin or like an American, like, Product company. Like a car. A car company that is. That sponsors this team. And the heroine, Savannah, she. Her father owns this company, and she's trying to prove to her father that, like, despite being a woman in the racing world and in sports, she is good enough to be. To ultimately take over. I think it's a tire company because she is a tire changer. I'm using all the wrong words here, but she is, like, in the pit, right?
- [43:59]
Jessica Luther
She's in the pit. Yep.
- [44:00]
Sarah McLean
And she changes tires. And so she gets this job on the F1. Like, she. And basically everybody on the team. She's the only woman, and everyone on. She's the only American and the only woman, and everyone on the team thinks she got this job via nepotism, like, because her dad is a sponsor. But she gets this job, and she's, like, one of the greatest. Like, she's so fast in the pit. Like, it's great. But she goes head to head with Dante every bit of this book, because he begins the book a complete misogynist in terms of, like, you're a woman. You're an American. You're clearly.
- [44:37]
Jen Prokop
You can't change my tires.
- [44:38]
Sarah McLean
Right. And, like, you're not gonna be good at this. And it is really great because I think it tackles a lot of the issues that we have been talking about, like, what it means to be, like, a woman in a man's world, like, a sport, what it means to have to face all that. But also what I love about it is Savannah is extraordinarily skilled at her.
- [45:02]
Jen Prokop
Part of the sport, of the job.
- [45:05]
Sarah McLean
And so we get to see it from both, like, he's obviously in the car, and he's the showman, but, like, her skill is unparalleled, and it's really, really fun to watch, and it's really sexy. And I think Tamara is a great writer, so.
- [45:22]
Jen Prokop
And you have an F1 romance, too. Yeah.
- [45:23]
Jessica Luther
I feel like I must have read that book, but now I'm gonna go back and reread that book. That's one of the great things about not remembering. These things are new. Yeah. I was gonna talk about Redeemed by Lauren Asher, which is part of her. It's the final book in her dirty series. Dirty air series. And mileage might vary on all these books, but this book is the final one, and it's the F1 driver, Santiago. It starts. You've known him now for three books. You get to the fourth book, you think, oh, he's going to be the world champion. And he has been In a horrific accident, lost his leg. And it's three years later, he's a recluse. And this woman literally crashes into his house.
- [46:04]
Sarah McLean
Me just writing this down.
- [46:06]
Jen Prokop
Yeah, I know.
- [46:06]
Sarah McLean
You're just. You're singing a song here.
- [46:08]
Jessica Luther
Redeemed by Lauren Asher. And she is in. I think. I think he's Italian and I think maybe Spanish. Oh, and she's gone there. She took a DNA test. Turns out that her dad lives next door to this driver. And then we get a fake dating trope. They end up fake dating, but you get, like, romance. I know, I know. But part of what's really lovely is it's about Santiago, like, finding himself again. And they talk a lot about his disability and the possibilities of him racing again, which I don't actually think would be true in real life. F1 has 20 drivers. It is so intense. Like, to be a driver is just. There's maybe Nothing more competitive.
- [46:56]
Sarah McLean
F1 drivers are about to be the modern day Duke, though.
- [46:59]
Jessica Luther
Like, they're going to be everywhere. There will be a million of them. Um, like, for people who don't know this, like, there has been a single black F1 driver in the history of the sport. It is Lewis Hamilton, the, for me, the greatest driver in F1 ever. But, like, this talk about, like, it is a very exclusive sport, very hard to break through. Um, but you get this, like, journey on of his to, like, get back to race it. And, like, he doesn't want to. He's being pushed by his brother. Brother in law, who is also an F1 driver. Of course, I think his is book one. Um, but it's just really interesting to see Throttled.
- [47:36]
Sarah McLean
Is that one.
- [47:37]
Jen Prokop
Yes.
- [47:39]
Jessica Luther
To see them Lauren write about this disability within the sport and the possibilities. Not that I think that would be true in real life. Again, not that I think that'd be true in real life. But I like the idea of imagining that to be a possibility.
- [47:53]
Sarah McLean
I mean, I think that's the realm of romance, though, right? Like, the fantasy of. There's something really good, great about the fact that you can sort of wave away what would be real in life. By the way, that's available in ku, everyone. I just bought it, so.
- [48:09]
Jessica Luther
Well, I want to tell you about a book that I feel like you both are going like this catnip. This is a catnip book.
- [48:15]
Jen Prokop
Oh, okay.
- [48:15]
Jessica Luther
I'm ready. Okay. So talk about a sport that you wouldn't consider but surfing. And there's a book called out of the Blue by Katherine Nolan. And I read this years ago. I just reread it because I was like, oh, I have to go on this podcast. I will reread this book.
- [48:30]
Sarah McLean
I love did your homework. Very difficult work.
- [48:34]
Jessica Luther
Y' all get ready. Get ready for this. It's so good. So Serena Swift is a big time surfer. She is the athlete in this. In this book. She is just gotten a huge, like, she's paired up with, like, Patagonia, like, one of these outdoorsy things. And it's a big deal for her. It's actually whatever company would sell surfboards and. Sure, you know, wetsuits and that sort of thing. She's so excited. She's so happy. And they've told her that they are willing to. To, like, support all of her feminist causes within surfing. Like, she's known as being the woman who speaks out against all the inequalities within the sport. But they expect that she might get threatened. Right. That there could be a safety issue here. So she needs a bodyguard.
- [49:20]
Jen Prokop
Listen, I'm like, literally, like.
- [49:22]
Jessica Luther
But wait for it. Wait for it.
- [49:23]
Sarah McLean
Also just downloaded it.
- [49:26]
Jessica Luther
The bodyguard's name is Cod and name is Destiny. I'm not giving anything away because this is literally. If you read the description.
- [49:35]
Jen Prokop
Yeah, yeah.
- [49:36]
Jessica Luther
They know each other because they are married, but estranged and have been estranged for years. And so I love it. It is so good. And like, part of what I love. Talk about competency porn. Like, you learn how she. What she has to do to be a great surfer. Like, one of my favorite scenes in the whole book is she goes to training and you find out, of course, Cope's dad was a famous surfer who died rescuing someone in the surf. So he's got his own shit around her being a big wave surfer. But you, you go with her to training and she has to practice holding her breath underwater in case she gets hit by a wave and has to go underwater. Which Catherine brings us up, because this will come up later. But you get to really check off.
- [50:23]
Jen Prokop
Check off Chekhov's breath, you know?
- [50:26]
Jessica Luther
Yes, exactly. But you really get to learn, like, the. There's a real training here. Like, this is a real expertise. You're not just jumping in the water and holding your breath for six minutes, like, there's a real thing that she has to do. And then you also get the. Just. She's a feminist, like, just so upset about the way that surfers are treat women and marginalized surfers are treated within the sport. And she's out there talking about it and she's pushing back, and then there is someone threatening her so you get the sort of like the little bit of thrill with like, what. Who is actually behind this? What's actually going on? And I just love this book. I just like it. Just like, check, check, check, check.
- [51:07]
Jen Prokop
I love books about surfing and there are so few surfing romances. So I'm definitely going to check that out. I've, like, read a lot of weird books about.
- [51:14]
Sarah McLean
There's a Vanessa north about surfers too, that I will find and mention later.
- [51:21]
Jen Prokop
Yeah, there's a. I think Georgia Beers has a FF one. I'm not sure I'll have. Everybody will just look at show notes and there'll be a bunch. Okay, let me talk about. Or wait, Sarah, do you want to talk about your Rhys Ryan? Because it's still an. My last two I do want to mention are like regular sports. Not like they're regular sports. Not like you're allowed.
- [51:45]
Jessica Luther
You're allowed.
- [51:46]
Sarah McLean
I mean, I'm happy to talk about the reason why I'm one, but no, you go and then we'll come back around. It's called Double up, by the way, the Vanessa north surfing book.
- [51:59]
Jen Prokop
Okay. I want to talk about a book called Bounce Back by Nicole Falls, which is a WNBA romance. And I really. So this is part of a series. Nicole is a Chicagoan and a friend of mine and she's been. She's done like a five minute Firebird where we talked about the WNBA and how much we love it. And this is part of her series that she writes with a woman named Alexandra Warren called the Nymphs and the Trojans. They're like a Nashville, NBA and WNBA team.
- [52:25]
Sarah McLean
And the reason the Nymphs and the.
- [52:27]
Jen Prokop
Trojans, I know, I love it. She's like, they just went all in on sort of like this classical theme. But what I really liked about this book, and I think that this is, it's set when during the pandemic in the WNBA bubble, which I just think is also so fascinating to have a book like we've talked about pandemic books, but here's a pandemic book that is really leveraging this really fascinating way in which sports tried to come back. And so the heroine's name is Makhi Kennedy and she calls herself O B O T. And I don't know if I'm supposed to say that another way, which stands for the old bitch on the team, because she actually has been only playing in Europe her entire career and she's 33 and she has just gotten sort of the call up to be on the Nymphs in the wnba, like kind of mid season. So she has to like, go into quarantine and enter the bubble and be the old woman, the older, you know, the elder on the team. And kind of her, you know, she's got this young hotshot kind of, you know, who doesn't want her there. And the love interest is a trainer and his name is Vic. And the thing is, that's really interesting is she actually. They were like childhood friends, of course. So, you know. Of course. So she's kind of like. They run into each other and there's all of this like, really great stuff about like, I don't know, like the bubble and like, what it was, you know, how desperately she wanted to be in the WNBA. You guys, there's only 144 women in the WNBA. 144 players at the most.
- [54:06]
Jessica Luther
Sometimes a little less.
- [54:07]
Jen Prokop
Yeah. And so it's like so intense and you know, her like, getting called up and then like, sort of. And Vic is a single dad and his, you know, he married, you know, the love of his life. And she actually got cancer and died when she was. Got cancer, diagnosed with cancer when she was pregnant with her daughter and like gave birth and dies pretty quickly afterwards. And now this child is like eight, I think. And so the kid comes into the bubble too, and because, you know, she was with her grandparents, but he kind of goes and gets in. And it's just like a really fascinating. Like, I just loved the idea of like writing a book that is set at such a really specific time when sport was like, how do we stay relevant? And that is of course, Micaiah's whole, like, am I still relevant as I'm like, aging out of the sport and finally have this chance to be a rookie in like a 33, essentially. It's awesome. And like I said, it's part of a series that I really like, but I also just really loved. I don't know, like, how specific it was about this time and in a way that didn't. I don't know, like, there was like a lot of pandemic books that just felt like, kind of silly to me. And this one felt instead, like really brilliant. So that's Bounce Back by Nicole Falls.
- [55:27]
Sarah McLean
I also have one where the heroine is the sport, the athlete. This one is Rhys Ryan's Playing with Seduction, which is. I don't know what number it is. I think it's the third in a series that's set around a small town. And there is. The hero is an event promoter who was born and raised in North Carolina. And both the characters actually were born and raised in North Carolina, and they both had. I think what's really interesting about this is it sort of tackles that sports, the sports story that we all know and sort of think of in the zeitgeist, the mythology of the child who didn't have any other option, right? And then they got the scholarship or whatever and they got out, so to speak of, you know, they broke out the Friday Night Lights mythology. Right? So Bri, our heroine, is a professional volleyball player. She plays beach volleyball.
- [56:35]
Jen Prokop
Whoa. Yeah. That's awesome.
- [56:37]
Sarah McLean
I mean, it's pretty great. And so she is. She is done, like, it is her. She is the one who is, like, come to the end of her career. She needs to retire. And she has this plan to retire at this, like, massive tournament that is sponsored by, like, a high end luxury resort. So she's gonna go, she's gonna play her final game, and then she's gonna go off and, like, do her own thing. She gets the resort, signs on to do this, and they assign her a very, very fancy event promoter who has been in the United. Who's been in the UK for a long, long time and been, like, successful in England. And he's coming home to North Carolina to be with her. And he gets there, and it turns out that one year ago, these two had the hottest, like, most intense one night stand and he pieced out.
- [57:32]
Jen Prokop
Ooh.
- [57:34]
Sarah McLean
But. And she wants. So she desperately wants to be like, get the fuck out. But she can't because she needs this man. Like, she has this plan for, like, how her career is going to end. She has, like, this is like the beach volleyball Stanley cup, right? Like, this is what's gonna happen. Everyone knows that. I am, like, an avowed Rhys Ryan fan. I have read all of her books. I think she's amazing. This one is a little bit of a road trip romance. They actually, like, take a tour all around. They end up having to, like, drive all around North Carolina to, like, you know, I don't know, vendor shit and, like, do all sorts. There are all sorts of reasons why they have to, like, they're putting it is months to your Jessica. You're gonna love this. Like, it is months that they are together, really falling in love. And he realizes pretty quick that he is in it to win it, but he also realizes that, like, he can't risk ruining whatever Brie has planned. So it's pretty great. In classic Rhys form, there is, like, there are great, like, secondary characters. His mom is involved and she's a super fun character. So it's just really fun. And also, I have never read a beach volleyball book.
- [58:46]
Jen Prokop
Yeah, that's amazing.
- [58:47]
Sarah McLean
Yeah, they all exist. It all one for everyone.
- [58:51]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, it's true. It's really true. Can I want to talk about a football book, like American Football.
- [58:59]
Jen Prokop
I have one after you, so perfect.
- [59:00]
Jessica Luther
Okay. Hopefully it's not the same one.
- [59:02]
Sarah McLean
There's so many.
- [59:04]
Jessica Luther
I want to talk about another sport baking book, Fake It Till youl Bake it by Jamie Wesley.
- [59:10]
Sarah McLean
Sport baking.
- [59:11]
Jen Prokop
I just looked it up the other day. I was like, when does the second one come out?
- [59:15]
Jessica Luther
There's a fair amount of sport baking books, which is my intersection.
- [59:19]
Jen Prokop
What do we think competitive men just have to go on and do other competitive things?
- [59:23]
Jessica Luther
I don't know.
- [59:23]
Jen Prokop
I don't know.
- [59:24]
Jessica Luther
But part of why I wanted to talk about this is because there is a bakery here in Austin that was started a cupcake shop that was started by NFL players. And I have been. I've gone there, of course. And so are they good? Yeah, they're good. They're part of a. They're like part of a chain of some sort. But yeah, huge. You know, one of those. So, like, Jamie has taken after you.
- [59:48]
Sarah McLean
A series, played a sport for this long. Then you're like, I just want to shove cupcakes in my face.
- [59:55]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, yeah. And there is something.
- [59:57]
Jen Prokop
Oh, were you only supposed to want to do that if you played sports?
- [60:01]
Sarah McLean
Well, I'm saying they probably have resisted the urge for a while.
- [60:04]
Jen Prokop
Sure.
- [60:04]
Jessica Luther
Yes. But so you get. I think it's three football players here. It's at least two. But in this series, I think there's three of the guys, so I assume there'll be three books. But in Fake it till you bake it, the woman, Jada, she has gone on like a bachelor type show and rejected the man at the last second and is like, everyone hates her. It's how she perceives the world, that people are very, very angry at her. And then you have this professional football player in San Diego who is the owner of this cupcake shop, and she goes in with her friend and the first scene they're meet cute is when she's insulting the cupcakes and he's very upset. And then it's one of those perfect romance setups where he then goes to talk to the owner of the football team who happens to be a woman. So like, talk about dream. That that's a very rare thing. And she just so happens. I think it's her Granddaughter needs a job for three months. You know, I can't remember the exact time period. Would he.
- [61:07]
Jen Prokop
Romance reasons, right?
- [61:08]
Jessica Luther
Yeah. Would he hire her to work? And of course, you know exactly what is coming. And so she shows up. The woman who is in salsa is cupcakes. Jada has shown up. It's. His name is Donovan to the cupcake shop. And then they have to work together. And then on top of that, you get the fake dating trope where like, to read to, like, bring attention to the cupcake shop, which is having trouble, and to start rehabilitating her image. You know, some reporter thinks that they're dating, and so they start fake dating and like, all the things that you want in a romance novel. And I just. There's something so lovely about these three guys caring so much about their cupcakes. Like, one of the guys is in charge of flavor, and he's just like, really dedicated. Donovan's like, the. He wants to make sure everything's running smoothly.
- [62:00]
Jen Prokop
Right. He's like kind of running the business. Right?
- [62:02]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, yeah. And there's just. That part of it is just so lovely. And the fact that there's actually, like, I can drive 25 minutes and go to the shop and. And see it. And when I was there the day I went, like, school group, like, a group of kids had shown up and like, one of the players came out. I was there with my mother in law and I was like, oh, my God, that's one of the players. She. She just wanted to eat the cupcakes with me. But, like, that was really fun. I was like, oh, this football player is showing these kids around a bakery. Like, I just. There's something just so lovely about that.
- [62:38]
Jen Prokop
Yeah, right?
- [62:38]
Jessica Luther
Yes. And, like, and then adding in the bachelor element and like, what that would be like to be a woman moving through the world where people think you chose incorrectly and she has people yelling at her on the street about it. She's kind of just walking around waiting for someone to be mad at her. It's just a really lovely blend of all these things. So thank you, Jamie, for writing about the cupcake football players.
- [63:04]
Jen Prokop
Yeah, the next. I actually, the other day was like, when's that next one come out? Because I like the first one too. And it's not until, I think next spring maybe, so.
- [63:11]
Jessica Luther
Oh, wow. You have time.
- [63:13]
Jen Prokop
We have time, everybody.
- [63:14]
Jessica Luther
Yeah.
- [63:15]
Jen Prokop
Okay.
- [63:16]
Sarah McLean
This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by Avon Books, publishers of Julie Murphy and Sierra Simone's A Holly Jolly Ever After.
- [63:26]
Jen Prokop
So in this holiday romance, we have Kalyn Liebermanus. He's always been the funny one. He was a member of a boy band called Ink, and He had his 15 minutes of fame, but then moved back home, opened a pizza joint, and just is, like, living his life right, hooking up with bridesmaids at his friend's wedding. But then an old sex tape of his gets released, and Callum is back in the spotlight. And this time, he's starring in a sexy Santa biopic for the Hope Channel. Meanwhile, Winnie Baker did everything right. She married her childhood sweetheart and, like, sort of didn't get involved in all that. She even waited until after marriage to have sex. But her perfect life also falls apart, and she is also going to join this steamy Christmas movie with Callum. So they have a decade of old Hollywood history between them, a new situation that is leaving them hesitant. But what are Winnie and Callum going to do as they learn about pleasure and being great partners? Check it out.
- [64:32]
Sarah McLean
They figure it out.
- [64:34]
Jen Prokop
Of course they do.
- [64:35]
Sarah McLean
You can read a Holly Jolly Ever after right now in print, ebook or audiobook. And thanks, as always, to Avon Books for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [64:48]
Jen Prokop
So I have an NFL book as well. And part of the reason I picked it is because I was really interesting. There's a gambling angle. And so. And I was like, I just thought this was interesting as, like, sportsbook apps are now. You can, like, gamble your life away on your phone, which. Please don't do that, everybody. It seems very dangerous. So it's called Two Minute Warning by Alexandra Warren. And in this book, and I really like this, too. So his name is Kendall Dogwood, but of course, everyone calls him Snoop, Snoop Dogwood. And he was the backup quarterback on this fictional, I think, Houston team. I can't remember, like, the Sky Riders or something. I can't remember the name of the team, but it's like the Houston NFL team. And so he kind of took over and had a pretty good season. Like, kind of came off the bench and was great until he threw this. An interception everyone will remember forever or some kind of turnover. And so he went from being the hero of this team where all of a sudden he turned their season around, to now he essentially has to try out again to be the quarterback against the guy who was there before. Right. So it starts off in the preseason with him, like, kind of in this thing. And he meets this woman, Kiki, her real name's Shakira. And he's. It's really. They have this, like, there's a lot of super cute banter in this Book like, a lot of sexy banter too. And anyway, they like, kind of, you know, kind of hit it off. But what he finds out is that her father. And she's just like a social media influencer. She's just, you know, makes money because she's, like, beautiful and does all this stuff. And so everyone's like, watching them, like, right. Kind of fall in love. But what he finds out is that her father is a. Essentially makes money by gambling on sports. And he's like a. Like a big name in sort of sports gambling. And so his friend is like, you can date her, but you cannot have anything to do with her father. And so he just. Really? Cause he's like, immediately everyone will assume that you. You know what I mean? Anything that goes wrong, I mean, it's like really dangerous for you.
- [67:01]
Sarah McLean
Talk about great stakes, though. Like, that is risky business. Yes.
- [67:06]
Jen Prokop
And I was like, this is what I want. Like, the stakes are sky high. So although their romance is pretty okay, like, you know what I mean? Like, they get each other and they're vibing and, you know, they, like, they have great sex. There's like a really funny scene I don't want to give away right after they have sex where she texts. She thinks I'm going to give it away every day. Sorry. Like, skip forward 15 seconds because I, like, laughed out loud. She's like, she gets on the phone and, like, I'm going to text my friends and be like, I hit that and it was great. And she accidentally texted him. And so then he comes.
- [67:38]
Jessica Luther
Perfect.
- [67:39]
Jen Prokop
And I was like, listen, this is everything I want in a book. I literally could not love this book more. And then, so the first time her dad just, like, shows up, he, like, kind of takes off really fast. And she's assuming it's because, like, oh, he didn't wanna meet my dad. Right.
- [67:54]
Sarah McLean
Like, which is assuming this is okay. Every person who's like, misunderstandings are stupid. This is the kind of misunderstanding that works perfectly.
- [68:03]
Jen Prokop
Yes. So she's like, oh, he just. It's too early in our relationship for him to meet my dad. And he's like, no, I can't meet your dad. And it's really, I would say one of the books I have read most recently where I have been like, now this is conflict, right?
- [68:22]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, yeah, actual.
- [68:24]
Jen Prokop
And he gets into big trouble and starts losing. And now she's kind of like, wait, what's happening with my dad? And why is he showing my house beat up? It's so good. And I was like, this is a Book that really understands like the stakes and are through the roof. And it's all so fascinating and really driven by like, again, like this idea of like your legacy and your loyalty to your team and yourself and how, you know, like, who can ask you to do what. And it was a great book, everybody also in KU W. So that's Two Minute Warning by Alexandra Warren.
- [69:06]
Jessica Luther
These are wonderful. I did want to mention that there is. We recently had two big YA novels about sports. Like Talia Hibbert just released. Highly Suspicious and Unfairly Cute. And it's a football player. The guy's a football player. And then we had Rebecca Weatherspoon's Her Good side where the girl in high school is a basketball player and her mom's are WNBA players and they have like pressured her to play basketball, but she wants to be a chef. This made me think. So I, I realized that I just was in LA last week and gone to the Ripped Bodice and just saw Talia Hibberts before you.
- [69:47]
Jen Prokop
Oh, go ahead and say that because I have one I want to mention to you. Another YA romance, but tell that story first.
- [69:52]
Jessica Luther
Oh, I, I, so I had, I just was in la. I went to the Ripped Bodice as you do, and they had Talia Hibbert's book. I think it's a book club book maybe for them. And I looked at the back and I was like, oh gosh, she wrote a YA about a football player. Like, how amazing. But this made me think about a book that I was gonna, that I wanted to mention.
- [70:12]
Sarah McLean
Go ahead.
- [70:12]
Jessica Luther
And this is. I think I need your, like, I feel like I might say the name wrong. So this made me think about a book that I read years ago called There's Something about Sweetie by Zendaya Menon. And Sweetie, I actually listened to the audiobook. I loved this book. Like, I wanted to read everything by her after I read this. Sweetie is a track star in California, but she's like a fat brown girl who is just constantly working against her parents. Other people, they don't believe that she's as good and as fast as she is, but she's also just the most delightful. Like, just. I loved everything about Sweetie. And so like, I kind of like the, I looked it up. The guy's name is Ash and like, I kind of remember him, but like, I remember Sweetie. And I just was so happy to read. It's a sweet book. I love just the banter. I mean, part of that might have been the audio book of it all, but like, I loved the banter definitely go listen to this if you have the opportunity. I'm sure that I got it from my library on Libby or something like that. But I just love that we have these YA sports romance novels with, I think in all three of those books, they are fat girls, like, moving through the world in these bodies. And in two of them, they're athletes. And I just think that's just something I wish I had had when I was a big girl moving through the world.
- [71:45]
Jen Prokop
Yeah. Well, let me add a book that will, I think, fit in with that, like, in terms of, you know, this body I have, which is last year I went to a YA romance conference in Las Vegas and saw a transgender author named ZR Eller. And ZR has written a book called, called May the Best Man Win. And in this book, Jeremy Harkness is a trans boy who's a senior, Right. Who just transitioned. But Jeremy used to be the cheerleading captain who dated, like, the homecoming king, like, or the all star football player, Lucas. And so now they're seniors and they've broken up because I think Jeremy was like, I have to break up with you to come out as trans. But he's also like, listen, I'm gonna make some noise. I'm not gonna let people sort of push me into the corner. And so Jeremy decides to run against his ex boyfriend, Lucas for the title of homecoming king. And if this is not like the YA romance like we have all been waiting for. Right. And so Lucas has been going through some stuff on his own. I think his sibling died. You know, he lost his girlfriend, who's now a boy, and, you know, and now this guy's trying to steal his, like, homecoming crown. Right. And so I just thought it was, you know, all about rivalry, but also, of course, all about love. And the fact that we have, like, trans authors writing trans romance. Right. For that includes sports and, you know, kind of. Right. The way we feel about ourselves and our bodies as we play sports, I just think is, again, like, what a time to be alive, Right?
- [73:36]
Jessica Luther
Yes.
- [73:37]
Jen Prokop
And I saw this author speak and just was really won over by the way he talked about, like, why he wanted to write this book and how important it was just to, like, sort of tell this story. So that is May the Best Man Win.
- [73:49]
Jessica Luther
Great title. Like, perfect title. Wow.
- [73:53]
Sarah McLean
We'll listen through about half of this. I have been trying to remember the name of a book that I recently read where the hero was so into the heroine, but also so competent in sports that he realized he had no question that he could do Both, like, have the heroine and also have the sports, but everyone else around him was not sure about this, and so he ended up getting benched. And then I remembered it's like episode three of the Beckham documentary.
- [74:24]
Jessica Luther
I love that and that.
- [74:25]
Sarah McLean
So there it is. If you're also just looking for something to watch.
- [74:30]
Jessica Luther
Well, I mean, it's so fascinating to me at the Beckham diary, like, or Beckham documentary that the. The scene of him dancing with Victoria has, like, been this thing that's ever. Because they just look so sweet together. You're talking about celebrity. Celebrity athlete. Like, you know, generation.
- [74:48]
Sarah McLean
Like, that was so romantic. And what was it? And he, like, sat the bench and what was that?
- [74:54]
Jessica Luther
It was just David Beckham.
- [74:55]
Jen Prokop
It's David Beckham.
- [74:56]
Sarah McLean
It was David Beckham's real life.
- [75:00]
Jessica Luther
It's possible.
- [75:03]
Jen Prokop
Back to Travis Kelce, My husband, who I recently found out has over 70 fantasy football teams. Everybody. It's fine. 50 of them, he says, are just like them in fly. Oh, forget a.
- [75:16]
Sarah McLean
Romance novels, though.
- [75:17]
Jen Prokop
I don't. That's what I say to him. I'm like, I'm not judging you. How many romance novels I have. It's fine. 50 of them are just, like, set them and forget them.
- [75:23]
Jessica Luther
Stresses me out.
- [75:24]
Jen Prokop
He is, like, actively managing, like, 20 fantasy football teams. He loves it. But he. The other day was like. He's like, do you know about, like, this Taylor Swift person dating Travis Kelsey? And I was like, I try not to, but yes.
- [75:37]
Jessica Luther
Never heard of her.
- [75:37]
Jen Prokop
I'm aware.
- [75:38]
Sarah McLean
It's bringing people together.
- [75:39]
Jessica Luther
It's bringing us together.
- [75:41]
Sarah McLean
Across the United States, there are plenty of couples where they just don't talk about the things they're into. And right now, so many of them are smashing their interests and also, hopefully other things.
- [75:53]
Jen Prokop
I feel like I do want to thank the wnba, though, because I have found, like, this is the sport we enjoy together. Right? Like, we go to these games and we have a great time, and, like, it's like a real, like, kind of ongoing source of conversation. Like, we just hired Teresa Weatherspoon to be our next.
- [76:11]
Jessica Luther
I'm so excited about that. I love.
- [76:13]
Jen Prokop
So excited about that. Yes. And, you know, like, it just feels like such a. You know, we're. You know, we're talking about the WNBA draft coming up, and it's just awesome to kind of feel like I've never really felt I could be a part of that world. Right. And he is. You know, it's funny, there was this great tweet the other day that was like, if you want to know something about, like, a man. Like, ask him what he thinks of the wnba. And my husband just, like, loves it. He loves the wnba. And I told him about that dumb man who was like, oh, yeah, a high school boys basketball team could beat the wnba. And he just was like, that's ridiculous. And I was like, reader. I married him. That's why I felt I did.
- [76:54]
Jessica Luther
I love that. Can I tell you a story that you could totally cut that is just a Teresa Weatherspoon story?
- [76:59]
Jen Prokop
Oh, yeah, please do.
- [77:01]
Jessica Luther
So I am working on a dissertation right now in sports studies at UT, and it's about the UT women's basketball team in the 1970s. And so behind me. Let's see if I can get my finger in it. No, that woman over there with. She's on the Great Wall of China, and she's doing the Longhorn sign. I think that was 1978. She was the first black female athlete at UT, and she played basketball. Her name is Rita Swindell. And so she's one of the main people that I'm looking at because I'm interested in the racial integration as well as the gender into integration at ut in the 1970s. And so I was preparing to go interview her, and I'm just reading, like, everything that I can. And after she left ut, she played a little bit of pro ball and then went into coaching, like a lot of the women actually did from those teams. And she coached Theresa Weatherspoon. And so she's like, yeah, I coached a little bit in Houston. And I was like, you. You coached Teresa Weatherspoon? Right? And she was like, yeah, I did. And she told me, and I haven't actually done it yet, but we. When Spoon was inducted into the hall of Fame, she mentions Reetha in. In her speech. She's like. She mentioned me in her speech, but I was just like, wow. Like, I just love the legacy when you're like. You can see literally how these things worked. But that I was like, I'm one degree away.
- [78:21]
Jen Prokop
Yeah. That's so cool. I mean, at the. At the WNBA Finals, like, seeing Dawn Staley, like, right. Go back and see her players. Right. That she coached or. Right. Just. I mean, I. I just think it's. Yeah. You guys, if you're. The wmb, is fucking awesome. That's all I have to say about that.
- [78:40]
Jessica Luther
Yeah, it's. I'm so jealous. Like, one of the hardest things about living in Austin. We have, obviously, a great collegiate.
- [78:45]
Jen Prokop
Yeah.
- [78:46]
Jessica Luther
School. You know, I certainly will go watch some of those games, but we don't have professional sports here, which is part of why I was like, oh, soccer, sure, sure. Well, my husband was willing to go in all in with me. He's on a sports person. We also happen to live very close to the stadium, so it's convenient. But I would. There's lots of reasons why I don't think the NWSL will come here. In part because Texas is not a great place to be sending women at all. But, man, I would love it. Like, I was like, you know, praying. I'm like, please, because I. I'm with you, Jen. Like, I just. Just love what it feels like to attend women's sporting events. And I would just give anything. Like, we used to have a WNBA team in San Antonio, which is now the Las Vegas Aces, and they moved years ago, but there was, like, a little blip in time where I went down for a few games in San Antonio, but the closest one now is Dallas, and it's two and a half hours away, and it's, like, just too much. But during the summer, if I travel to a. Like, I've seen the Atlanta Dream. I'm trying to remember. I feel like there's another.
- [79:55]
Jen Prokop
Well, come to Chicago next summer, because we have seats.
- [79:58]
Sarah McLean
I know.
- [79:59]
Jen Prokop
I'll be like, I'm sorry, Darrell, you can't come. Jessica, Luther's here with me this week.
- [80:02]
Jessica Luther
You know, I. This is one of my gripes just with women's sports in general, is you can't get jerseys. And my husband loves Ali Quigley. And so for, like, two years, I was like, I'm going to get him an Ali Quigley jersey, and I'm going to get myself a Courtney Vander Sloot jersey because they played together on the Chicago sky. And I was like, this will be the cutest thing in the world. And then he will have a Quigley jersey. And you just couldn't. Yeah, they won the championship, and I like them.
- [80:31]
Sarah McLean
And I was just, like, leaving money on the table.
- [80:33]
Jessica Luther
I know, I know.
- [80:34]
Sarah McLean
And now go to ebay. Go to Etsy. Somebody on Etsy is making them.
- [80:39]
Jessica Luther
I know. It's true. But now. Now Quigley is not playing right now. Invadersloots with the Liberty. So that moment is gone.
- [80:48]
Jen Prokop
But we were big game four. I switched. I was like, I love Courtney Vandersloot. So I was like, I'm gonna. Gonna vote for. You know, I'm gonna root for the Liberty. And then I was like, oh, no. Aces all the way.
- [80:56]
Jessica Luther
I just was like, boom.
- [80:58]
Jen Prokop
I was like, sorry, Courtney, you are not enough weight. To like kind of pull me away from whatever magic is happening over here.
- [81:05]
Jessica Luther
But yeah, so the sky were my husband's team there for a little bit, so he was deeply invested in Ally quickly. But I know it's true.
- [81:14]
Sarah McLean
Well, Jessica Luther, thank you so much.
- [81:17]
Jessica Luther
For coming and hanging out with us.
- [81:19]
Sarah McLean
And talking about sports, romance and sports in general with us. If you want to learn more about Jessica or hear more from her, you can listen to her podcast, Burn It All Down. I assume all the episodes are still available. Links in show notes. She has two brilliant books. The first is Under Sportsmanlike Conduct, College Football and the Politics of Rape. And the other is Loving Sports when they don't love you back. Dilemmas of the Modern Sports Fan Jessica, where else can people find you on social media?
- [81:50]
Jessica Luther
My handle is Jessica Wluther. I technically have a Twitter account but I haven't logged on in quite a while. But I'm on Blue sky now feeling it out. But Instagram probably would be the best place. But if you want to get in touch with if you have a book that I should read and you need to tell me about it, you can always go to my website, which is jessicawluthor.com and email me there. And I would be happy to email with you about sports romances that you love.
- [82:15]
Sarah McLean
This is Fated Mates everyone. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here every Wednesday with my friend Jen Prokopf. You can find us@fademates.net and in your ear holes every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. You can find us on Instagram, Instagram, @fatedmates pod, @ Twitter, still @faded mates, bluesky, fademates.net and threadsmates pod. We're sort of all places and in no places. But if you love listening to us, you should also join our patreon fadedmates.net patreon we have an amazing, very vibrant discord and also so you get to hear us banter once a month in your ears. So thanks so much. We hope that you are watching sports, reading sports, loving sports and find your local women's sports teams sa.