← Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
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- [00:00]
Loretta Chase
The main thing about that book was that it was in me. I did not have to find it. It was there, and it was demanding to be written. The characters were in my mind very clearly from the beginning, and that never happens. I'm always struggling. I'm always fumbling. It takes me a while to get to know who they are and what do they want and what's the goal, et cetera, et cetera. In this case, it was all very clear to me. I saw this. The main thing I saw in the beginning was this child who had had this horrible, horrible childhood, badly traumatized that turned him into this person who's sort of monstrous. And I thought, how do you. What do you do for this person? Or what. What's needed here for some kind of a balance? And the heroine was there instantly. It was like, okay, she's someone who just gets it. She gets the thinking. She gets the guy thinking. She gets whatever it is. And how is. Why is she that way? Because she grew up with boys all the time, and she's just smart and paying attention. So I needed someone who could see through him. And it. She. Jessica, just came to my mind, as you know, so. So they really formed in themselves on the stage. And the rest of it, the rest of that book, I know it sounds mystical, and it's like, writers shouldn't wait for this to happen because it doesn't usually, but it just wrote itself. It was like a movie, and all I had to do was write it.
- [01:49]
Sarah MacLean
That was the voice of Loretta Chase, author of Regency Romances, Single title historical romances, and as everyone knows, Lord of Scoundrels. This is Fated Mates. I'm Sarah Maclean. I read romance novels and I write them.
- [02:08]
Jennifer Prokop
And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. You are about to hear our trailblazer episode with Loretta where she talks about her how she came to writing romance, her research process, and why she believes in historical research and folding it so well into her books and her life.
- [02:31]
Sarah MacLean
And romance and how it is that Lord of Scoundrels came to be. Without further ado, let's get into it.
- [02:43]
Jennifer Prokop
I. Here we are with Loretta Chase. I don't. I'm just gonna make words now. Just. They're gonna flow out of me, like, in a rush because I'm so overwh.
- [02:52]
Sarah MacLean
Loretta, we are so thrilled to have you.
- [02:56]
Loretta Chase
Oh, thank you for having me.
- [02:59]
Sarah MacLean
It's a delight. I don't know that you know this, but we are avowed Loretta Chase fans here at the podcast. We reference your characters all the time.
- [03:10]
Loretta Chase
Oh, thank you.
- [03:11]
Sarah MacLean
And, of course, we've talked a lot about Lord of Scoundrels, so I'm sure we'll get into that as well. But in general, I'm just so thrilled to have you here.
- [03:20]
Loretta Chase
Thank you. I feel honored to be here because I know about your podcast, and I think it's just very cool.
- [03:26]
Sarah MacLean
Thank you. So we start all these conversations the same way, and that is to say, how did you come to this genre?
- [03:36]
Loretta Chase
I came in a very weird way because I was never a romance writer, a romance reader. My mind was poisoned by my English professors, so I thought very scornfully of romance. And the way I came to it was after I had been writing professionally, and, you know, my husband said to me, do you want to write video scripts for the rest of your life? What do you really want to do? And eventually, after much weeping, I admitted that I wanted to write a novel, but I had never been able to. I would write and write and write, and it just went on forever. And it didn't have a story, and it didn't make any sense. And I realized just in that conversation, I made the connection with what I was doing in video and what could be done in a novel. And I realized all I needed was structure. So when you're writing scripts for video, you have a specific structure. You have a message that you want to get across. And I would always ask, ask the clients, what's the message? Can you tell me in one sentence what you want the audience to come away with? And I realized that genre fiction does that.
- [04:54]
Jennifer Prokop
It sure does.
- [04:55]
Sarah MacLean
Bless.
- [04:56]
Loretta Chase
Yes. So I'm looking at mystery. I'm looking at science fiction. I'm looking at various genres. And I realized. But it was like, oh, wait a minute. Love stories. That's the part of the books that I really like. And maybe that's where I should be working. And, yeah, love conquers all. Yes, please. Because it doesn't. In so many of the classic novels, the women are victimized. They die if they have sex. And so I thought, oh, well, this is a great way to correct that. And. And I have a structure. I have a structure. I have something I like, which is a love story. And that gave me my start, and it worked nicely.
- [05:48]
Sarah MacLean
When you talk about the books that are the parts of the books that you always loved, the love story, what were you reading before romance or before you came to the genre?
- [06:00]
Loretta Chase
Well, a good. A good example would be, like, Charles Dickens. Plecos. All right, so there's Lady Deadlock, and she's had an illegitimate child and there's like, no forgiveness for her.
- [06:13]
Sarah MacLean
Right?
- [06:13]
Loretta Chase
She has to. She has to die. Anna Karenina, you know, she has an affair, she has to die. They. Women who follow their sexual inclinations or fall in love outside of the norms of the time, they're punished. And I wanted to rewrite those stories. So I actually, I did that with one of mine, not quite a lady. I took lady deadlock story as a starting point and said, okay, here's a person who had a child out of wedlock. It was kept a big secret, but her, she's going to have a happy ending.
- [06:53]
Jennifer Prokop
So at some point, did you kind of read romance as, like, research, or did you just like, okay, so, I mean, once you decided, wait, I might want to write this, did that happen concurrently or did you stop and think, okay, I'm going to give myself permission to read these books now?
- [07:08]
Loretta Chase
It was. I approached it the way I would have approached a project in an English class. I started doing the research, do the reading.
- [07:16]
Jennifer Prokop
Loretta.
- [07:17]
Loretta Chase
Yes, exactly. So I read maybe hundreds of romances because I was also looking to find where would my. Where would I sit? So I. At that time, you know, there was like, Kathleen Woodworth and Joanna Lindsay, and they wrote those big sprawling romances, and I didn't think that was me. And then I encountered their traditional regencies, and I thought, oh, this is perfect. This is a time period I'm very interested in. I love the witty banter. And it was like sort of there were smaller books, so I felt like I could handle that from. For my first thing. So that was how I ended up there. But there was a lot of research before I actually started trying to write a book.
- [08:15]
Sarah MacLean
Your first books are traditional regencies, and they're category regencies.
- [08:19]
Loretta Chase
Right, right. I wrote for Walker and Company.
- [08:24]
Sarah MacLean
Now, wait, that's a name we haven't.
- [08:26]
Jennifer Prokop
I know. I don't think we've ever talked about that.
- [08:29]
Sarah MacLean
What is that?
- [08:30]
Loretta Chase
Wow. It was when I was started writing, there were so many places that were publishing regencies. There were so many lines. I made a big list, and I went with Walker because they published hardcover, and I thought that was cool, but I was not expecting to be accepted. I just. That was my thing, and they accepted the book.
- [08:53]
Jennifer Prokop
So this is Isabella.
- [08:55]
Loretta Chase
Yes, yes. And. And then I later discovered it's. It was primarily they were publishing for libraries.
- [09:03]
Sarah MacLean
Ah.
- [09:04]
Loretta Chase
And. And that worked out fine because my agent ended up selling the paperback rights to Avon. And it was through Avon that I met my editor, Ellen Edwards, and she was the Person who got me to write historical romance. Longer books.
- [09:21]
Sarah MacLean
So you did a few. How many books did you do with Walker?
- [09:24]
Loretta Chase
Six.
- [09:25]
Sarah MacLean
Okay. Walker was publishing the hardcovers, and Avon.
- [09:28]
Loretta Chase
Was publishing the paperbacks, mostly, except for one book. I think Fawcett published one book. The rest of them were Avon.
- [09:36]
Sarah MacLean
And Ellen was always your editor at Avon?
- [09:38]
Loretta Chase
Yes. Yes.
- [09:39]
Sarah MacLean
And now talk. So, obviously, Ellen Edwards is a name that we have talked about before and heard many people talk about. Can you give us a sense of what that experience, what that editorial relationship was like with Ellen? Because it does feel like she had a really special eye.
- [09:58]
Loretta Chase
Oh, my gosh, she was amazing. I just. I loved her so much. She would write, like, a little note, like three words in the margins, and a whole idea would open up for me and. Or I would see how I had gone astray. But she wouldn't say, you've gone astray. She would just ask a little question. Yeah. And she was so perceptive. She was. When she invited me to write historical romance, I said, I don't think I can do that. I don't think I can write those big books. And she said, it's just like what you're doing, only bigger. And then she said, read Laura Kinsale.
- [10:42]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, sure.
- [10:43]
Sarah MacLean
Perfect. A perfect beginning for you. Yeah.
- [10:47]
Loretta Chase
Yes. So she knew that I would connect with what Laura Kinsale was writing. And she was absolutely right. She was just so insightful. I can't say enough about her. I think she was a fabulous editor.
- [11:01]
Sarah MacLean
So you're reading. So you move from Walker over to Avon for single titles. And that's about. That's the early 90s.
- [11:11]
Loretta Chase
Yes.
- [11:12]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. And that's sort of what we always clock here as the heyday of. There was a really. Or maybe not the heyday, but there was a really remarkable sea change in historical right then in the early 90s. And it was led largely by, it seems like, Ellen there. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what was going on during that time period. Did it feel like readers were just, you know, drawn to historicals? And now we look back and we say, okay, well, Ellen had, you know, she'd acquired you, and, you know, you put out Lord of Scoundrels, which we'll get to. And then, you know, she acquired Beverly Jenkins, who was, you know, doing what Bev does over there, and Lisa Klepas. You know, books from the early 90s really were changing the game. And was there something. Was there something in the water?
- [12:08]
Loretta Chase
I'm not sure. But, you know, there was something else. I mean, Avon wasn't the only place. This is the interesting thing. A lot of the friends that I made early on were writing regencies for Signet.
- [12:19]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [12:20]
Loretta Chase
And then Cygnet started doing what they were calling super regencies. So it was like the traditional Regency, but a bigger story, more sex. And that's a lot similar to what was going on at Avon. Although Avons weren't quite so much in that Regency, not precisely in that Regency mode. So there was definitely something going on in other places.
- [12:45]
Sarah MacLean
It was just across the board.
- [12:46]
Loretta Chase
Yes. Yes. And that Regency sensibility, I think, was, for some reason, you know, it ebbs and flows. I've been around for so long because I'm so ancient, that I see, you know, these ebbs and flows. Flows of what people are reading and what they're not reading. So I really can't account for it. It's hard to account for what happens with tastes. Yeah. And I'm not that analytical to begin with. I just. I write what I write and cross my fingers, it's okay if you had.
- [13:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Six books before it. Oh, my God, I've already spaced on the name of that walker.
- [13:27]
Loretta Chase
Yes.
- [13:28]
Jennifer Prokop
Does that mean Lord of Scoundrels was the first Avon book? I'm sort of looking at, like, fiction, DB but it.
- [13:35]
Sarah MacLean
No, it was the Lion's Daughter. Right.
- [13:37]
Loretta Chase
The Lion's Daughter and then Captives of the Night, and then. Okay, I. And I've. I've always forgotten to tell this story about that transition, but right around the time, I think, when I had written Captives of the Night, Jane Ann Krentz started writing as Amanda Quick. Yep.
- [13:57]
Jennifer Prokop
Yep.
- [13:59]
Loretta Chase
And I think she sort of triggered a sea change in the way we were approaching historical romances, because she came with that contemporary romance sensibility, and she was writing romantic suspense. And when she turned to writing these kind. These historical, sort of Regency Victorian set, they had that feel to them, and they weren't quite the sprawling books that we were working on at that time. And I'm sure that fed into my thinking when I was writing Lord of Scoundrels, because it's quite a different book from Captives of the Night and the Lion's Daughter. And I think that's part of it was that influence of, wow, this is another way to do this. And. And they're things that you absorb by osmosis. And it was only. I mean, actually, really, the other day when I was thinking about that, that I remembered about Janie Krentz and that Amanda Quick thing and how that seemed to have changed things.
- [15:09]
Jennifer Prokop
I Vividly remember as a reader reading Amanda Quick and feeling like this was different. I could tell it was different. Right.
- [15:17]
Loretta Chase
Yeah.
- [15:17]
Jennifer Prokop
And I just was so drawn to those books. And it's not that I didn't love. I of course, loved. Loved it.
- [15:24]
Sarah MacLean
All.
- [15:25]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. But I vividly remember really feeling like everything about those books was different. And so it doesn't surprise me to know that, like, that was apparent to the authors at the time as well. New rules, almost. Right. For what could be done.
- [15:41]
Loretta Chase
Yes.
- [15:42]
Sarah MacLean
It felt like heroines especially were shifting at the time. Like Amanda Quick brought a very different kind of heroine to the Regency.
- [15:52]
Loretta Chase
Yes, absolutely. And it was more clearly feminist and more clearly aware of differences in communication between women and men and addressed some really interesting aspects of male, female relationships that I did not feel as though we had, or I was dealing with anyway, in my earlier books necessarily. And then I. I started reading some other things. One of the books that was very influential was. You just don't understand.
- [16:28]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, yeah, I remember that.
- [16:30]
Sarah MacLean
Sure. I don't. I don't remember that.
- [16:33]
Jennifer Prokop
This was a. It was like a pop culture kind of psychology, women and men and women about women and men in conversation. And it was like the first time I was ever. And this was when I was in college, like, Right. Like I was in College from 1991 to 1995. And it was like this take I remember about, like, like topping people. Like, right. Like when you're talking and someone comes along and just talks over you, which I feel like I'm kind of doing now. Sorry, everybody. And it was really like a. And like a real take at, like, this is how people communicate differently based on how essentially they were raised in their. In their gender identity.
- [17:12]
Loretta Chase
So that was. That was very enlightening. And then that also led to my having conversations with my husband about that, about communication styles. So I think that also influenced the way I dealt with the relationships in my stories.
- [17:28]
Jennifer Prokop
This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by Desiree Nicoli, author of the Haven Cove duology Called to the Deep, book one, and the Song of Lorelei, book two.
- [17:40]
Sarah MacLean
Jen, did you know that in many circles it is not in fact the month of May, it's the month of Mermay.
- [17:47]
Jennifer Prokop
Amazing. I feel better for knowing this.
- [17:50]
Sarah MacLean
Listen, if you're out there and you're enjoying all the drawings of mermaids that are being posted on social media and all the talk about mermaids that's happening, and you're just cannot wait for this new live action Disney movie. We have the series for you this One is pretty delicious. And I use that word intentionally because it features Killian Quinn, the captain of an offshore fishing boat that receives a descript that receives a distress call from a sailing ship in a terrible storm early in the book. In the duology, he and his crew head out, they make a big save. They save the crew and a woman who does not know who she is and has no knowledge of how she got on the boat. Turns out this is Lorelai Roth, who is not just a normal woman, she is actually a mermaid. And in the world building of this series, mermaids eat people.
- [18:49]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm not even mad about it.
- [18:51]
Sarah MacLean
Listen, at one point in the blurb, it says the handsome captain begins to look like a tasty snack in more ways than one.
- [18:59]
Jennifer Prokop
Perfect. No notes.
- [19:01]
Sarah MacLean
Are they gonna get together? What happens when he finds out she's a flesh eating mermaid? Does she eat him? And like, not. I mean, I'm sure, sure we all.
- [19:10]
Jennifer Prokop
Know what you're about to say. Here's the thing. Everybody in. In celebration of Mermaid, you can get both books in the Haven cove duology between May 15 and May 22 for only 99 cents wherever you buy your ebooks. It's also available in print. Thanks to Desiree for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [19:29]
Sarah MacLean
And Happy Mermaid to all who celebrate. So Ellen brings you over to do these kind of single titles for his. For Avon. You write two, and then you write Lord of Scoundrels. And let's get into it, I mean, because, right, we have to tell us about the writing of it, you know, the conception of it. And then because you say, well, they weren't like these big sprawling books from before. But Lord of Scoundrels is a epic story. I mean, it covers a lot of ground. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, you know, how you. How it came to be.
- [20:15]
Loretta Chase
Okay. I had to make myself some notes about this because. Yeah, well, yes, long time ago. And I write intuitively, so I'm not quite sure what I'm doing most of the time. There were some things that fed into that, but the main thing about that book was that it was in me. I did not have to find it. It was there and it was demanding to be written. The characters were in my mind very clearly from the beginning, and that never happens. I'm always struggling, I'm always fumbling. It takes me a while to get to know who they are and what do they want and what's the goal, etc. Etc. In this case, it was all very clear to Me, I saw this. The main thing I saw in the beginning was this child who had had this horrible, horrible, horrible childhood, badly traumatized, that turned him into this person who's sort of monstrous. And I thought, how do you. What do you do for this person? Or what. What's needed here for some kind of a balance? And the heroine was there instantly. It was like she's someone who just gets it. She gets the thinking. She gets the guy thinking. She gets whatever it is. And how is. Why is she that way? Because she grew up with boys all the time, and she's just smart and paying attention. So I needed someone who could see through him. And it. She. Jessica just came to my mind, as you know, so. So they really formed themselves on the stage. And the rest of it, the rest of that book, I know it sounds mystical and it's like, writers shouldn't wait for this to happen because it doesn't usually. But it just wrote itself. It was like a movie, and all I had to do was write it.
- [22:22]
Sarah MacLean
And that's how it feels. I mean, it feels.
- [22:24]
Jennifer Prokop
It is how it feels. Reading.
- [22:25]
Sarah MacLean
When you read it, you just feel like it. It's just perfection.
- [22:29]
Loretta Chase
Thank you. But I consider it a gift. I got a gift from the writing gods. What's that book you were talking about?
- [22:39]
Jennifer Prokop
Like, Dane's, like, trauma. Right, right. So what's interesting to me about that is I think a lot of people kind of, I don't know, like, write about trauma without, like, doing a lot of research on trauma. And at one point I was talking. We have a friend who is, like, an expert on trauma, and she was like, this book does it so perfectly. And so, I mean, was that part also intuitive, or was that something where you really did think, like, how can I write about his trauma? I mean, I don't know. Like, maybe it all was mystical, but it's hard, I think, to write about traumatized characters without feeling like you're taking advantage of traumatized people. I don't know if that makes sense.
- [23:22]
Loretta Chase
It's an empathetic thing. And it's also, if you look back at your own own childhood and the way children treat one another, that wasn't so hard for me. I knew quite a bit. I had done quite a bit of research. So I understood about the bullying at Eton, and it wasn't that hard to imagine a child who's been rejected by his family and has dealt with abandonment. I think it was just. I don't know. This is something that writers do. You put yourself, try to put Yourself in the other person's shoes, or you think back to your own childhood and maybe your friends, what happened to them, or things you saw in the playground. You're drawing on all of that. So it wasn't like. It wasn't as though I studied trauma. I was just imagining, trying to imagine what kind of torturous childhood would make a person just shut everything off.
- [24:32]
Sarah MacLean
So obviously this book struck a chord across romance. I mean, it is a book that was talked about then. It is. It continues to be talked about. It is on every list, every, you know, every. It is a book that is held up by so many of us, including us, as the best of it, the best of the genre. And I wonder if you could speak to the reception at the time. And it sounds like it was electric for you in the writing. But what happened after.
- [25:08]
Loretta Chase
Well, that's so. That's what's so funny. It's like when I wrote it, I felt. And I said this to Ellen, I said, I think this is a pretty strong book.
- [25:19]
Sarah MacLean
Sure, that sounds exactly right. I mean, writers are always like, I think it's okay.
- [25:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [25:25]
Loretta Chase
And they are. Right. The thing about Ellen. Oh, God, I loved her so much. She used to write like 40 page notes on your books, which no one has time to do anymore.
- [25:37]
Sarah MacLean
Whoa.
- [25:37]
Loretta Chase
But they were so wonderful. They were so wonderful. Well, she had like two little notes on this book. That was it for Ellen. That was. That never happened. That never happened. So. So I felt like, okay, this book really holds together. So that was. That was great. But, you know, in terms of reception, it got. They sent it out for blurbs and I got really nice blurbs from various writers. But the book didn't like, take off or anything. It was just, you know, it did okay. And then it did win an RWA reader. But that book took like 12 years to earn out its advance.
- [26:19]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, wow.
- [26:20]
Sarah MacLean
Really?
- [26:21]
Loretta Chase
Yes.
- [26:24]
Sarah MacLean
And it just was the little engine that could. Or did something happen that.
- [26:28]
Loretta Chase
I don't know. It started appearing on that All About Romance list as a top book. And then I think that it might have been really a lot of word of mouth started. So more and more people started reading the book. And then it built up momentum. But initially it was like, it was no big deal.
- [26:51]
Sarah MacLean
Right. It was just a very good book.
- [26:54]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, just great.
- [26:55]
Loretta Chase
Right.
- [26:56]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm not surprised by it because I think one of the fascinating things about romance readers, and we've talked about this before, is there are books I love when I read them, but I never want to revisit them. And Then there are books that I that, like, grow on me over time. Like, I don't. I don't. And I think that maybe there's something special about romance in that way that. And so it doesn't necessarily surprise me because there are books that I, you know, when I first read them, I'm like, it was okay. And then I'm like, wait, why have I read that? Reread that book now seven times, right? So it's. It. It surprises me the way. The way things have a hold, like, I don't know, like a romance. The keeper shelf is no joke. Right. And I think that, like, the cumulative effect of it being on the keeper shelf for so many people. Right. That word of mouth is really powerful. I mean, when I first started talking to people, like, openly about liking romance, I would say to them, they would ask for recommendations, and I'll be like, I have two for you. And one's historical, one's contemporary. And if you don't like either of them, then you don't like romance. Which. You guys. That seems dramatic. But that's what I would tell people. And it was Lord of Scoundrels and Bet Me by Jenny Cruze.
- [28:11]
Loretta Chase
Oh, that book.
- [28:13]
Jennifer Prokop
Yes, yes.
- [28:15]
Sarah MacLean
Terrific.
- [28:16]
Jennifer Prokop
These books are. Are what romance is all about. And if you don't like them, then you don't like romance, and that's okay. More for me.
- [28:26]
Sarah MacLean
But I also think there's something to Jessica. I mean, not to keep going back to the heroines, but I feel like Jessica Trent holds up, you know, however many years later. We don't need to count them. Loretta. But I feel like she has. We just. We read Lord of Scoundrels for one of our deep dive episodes a couple of years ago and, you know, did a kind of big episode on it and Jessica. Continue. If Jessica walked off the page of Lord of Scoundrels right now and walked into a modern historical written this year, she remains as relevant, as amazing, as aspirational as any heroine ever.
- [29:11]
Loretta Chase
Oh, wow.
- [29:12]
Sarah MacLean
And I think that is a hallmark of a book that just will forever be one that we hold up. But I'm always. I'm fascinated to hear that it took 12 years to earn out. Wow.
- [29:31]
Loretta Chase
Yeah.
- [29:32]
Sarah MacLean
So, okay, so you've written what is arguably. I mean, not here arguably, but arguably the greatest romance of all time. But we still have to. It hasn't earned out, so you still have to make a living. And I want to talk a little bit here. I think this is a good place to talk about it because one of the Things that we have loved or that I have loved about your books over the years forever is how much research goes into them, how, how much love and care you give the worlds that you create. You used to have a blog that I loved very much called Two Nerdy History Girls, which you had with your friend whose name is now escaping me, Susan Holloway Scott. Yes. And in that blog, you used to tell these great stories about, you know, how, how dark the ballrooms would actually be in romance novels. Or, you know, one of the legendary scene from Lord of Scoundrels is. That is the glove scene with the button hook and that, you know, there, you know, there's so much discussion over the fan.
- [30:41]
Jennifer Prokop
Right. Or remember the dueling book with the Bird Pistols?
- [30:46]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, the Bird Pistols, right.
- [30:48]
Jennifer Prokop
Which I was like, wait, this is a real thing. This is fascinating.
- [30:51]
Sarah MacLean
And then you know, my other favorite, Mr. Impossible, all the Egypt stuff. And I do want to know if that came from the Mummy or not, because that is a discussion that comes.
- [31:02]
Loretta Chase
No, it did. The Mummy. You heard it here. The Mummy absolutely inspired that book. Yes.
- [31:10]
Sarah MacLean
You just made a lot of people really happy.
- [31:12]
Jennifer Prokop
Exactly. Like this has been speculation for a long time. And now we have confirmation.
- [31:17]
Loretta Chase
Oh, yeah. I was like, oh, wait, I can do this. And I always wanted to write about Egypt. I have been so fascinated by that, particularly what happened in the early 19th century and the discoveries that were made then. But, I mean, there were these intrepid women who were involved in that discovery. So, yeah, I loved doing the research for that. I have way more books than I ever needed to write that book. Something like 50 books on Egypt. And no, having them in the library wasn't enough. I had to own them. So, yeah, support you.
- [31:56]
Jennifer Prokop
Everyone just buy the books they want.
- [31:58]
Sarah MacLean
So talk about the reach, the research, because I do think that that is one thing that often historical romance novelists get. People don't realize quite how much research goes into the books because it does feel so invisible a lot of the time.
- [32:14]
Loretta Chase
Well, that's the goal, is to make it invisible. I mean, you, you read books and books and make tons and tons of notes and look at all these images and you're digging into historical newspapers and two lines appear on the page that have to do with that topic. But as Susan and I have often said, we really have to understand it. We have to be able to visualize. We have to feel like we're there in order to make the reader feel as though she's there. So. And I, I love it. I love reading the old newspapers and it's like it. This has been one of the fascinating and positive aspects of technology from the time when I first started writing, when we had no access to anything and trying to find information on the Regency were so dependent on what Georgette Hare wrote and a limited selection of books and memoirs that were not very accurate. And now we can get primary resources. And I just love that. I love reading the newspaper and finding an event that happens. Say, oh, wait a minute, I'm going to use that in a story. It's like I did that in the last book. 10 Things I Hate about the Duke. I read about this fancy fair that was so crowded with people and every. People were fainting because it was crowded. I said, oh, I have to set a scene there.
- [33:48]
Sarah MacLean
So tell us about the research process. Do you, as you said, you're an intuitive writer. Are you researching as you go? Do you sort of have a sense of what you're going to tackle in the book? Do you have a file? How does it work?
- [34:05]
Loretta Chase
Initially, what I was doing, I was taking. I think it was Stephen King's advice and I was research, or maybe it was Lawrence Box, somebody. I was researching what I needed to know for the scene. But now and over the last maybe 20 years, I have. I feel as though I need to get some sense of where I'm going to be with the story, what's the location. And then I sort of build from there. And I kind of like that method better. I like being. Going through the newspapers and looking at what's happening, say, in May of 1832, and thinking about what can I do with that? Because there's just. There are tons of ideas there for me. So now it's a little more of a little bit some of the work in advance, but then most of the work as I'm writing at some point.
- [35:06]
Sarah MacLean
The Mr. Impossible, that series is not with Avon, that is with Berkeley.
- [35:12]
Loretta Chase
Right, right.
- [35:13]
Sarah MacLean
So what happens at some. To. In that. In that world? Like, how does that. How does the shift happen?
- [35:21]
Loretta Chase
Well, what happened was I finished the Last Hellion and I had writer's block. My father had died and I. I didn't realize that that was what was going on. You know, it was grief and I had very bad writer's block and I couldn't write and I had to. I bought back my contract and I did not think I was going to write another novel. And then. Yeah, and then what I did, I went back to writing video scripts and that sort of thing for a few years. And then things change in our personal Circumstances. And it became necessary for me to actually get a real. And I've got myself a new agent. And she put me in with Berkeley. There had been an editor there who had been courting me all during my mental block period because I was still going to conferences. Gail. Oh, I can't remember her name. Anyway, she had been quoting me. She said, whatever you write, just can I look at it? And so she ended up being the editor. I. So I was at Berkeley for a few years, but then she left Berkeley. And I'm not. My agent wasn't really thrilled with how the books were being sold. And when was that?
- [36:47]
Jennifer Prokop
That.
- [36:48]
Sarah MacLean
That had to have been like, early 2000s.
- [36:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, this.
- [36:52]
Loretta Chase
It was early 2000s, when I went to Berkeley. And then I. Let's see. I wrote. So I wrote Miss Miss Wonderful, Mr. Impossible, and Lord Perfect. Oh, and then I had breast cancer.
- [37:07]
Jennifer Prokop
Oh, it's a small other thing.
- [37:10]
Loretta Chase
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I was finishing that book when I. I was finishing Lord Perfect when I had breast cancer, and I had to take a little time off from writing. And then when. By that time I was getting ready to go back to work, that was when my agent was saying, you know, I think we can do better at Avon. And Avon, you know, welcomed me back. And the last couple of books in that series were through Avon. So a lot. You know, some of these things, it's like your personal life messes things up for you or makes them better or whatever. But that's what happened.
- [37:46]
Sarah MacLean
I want to go back to this intuitive writing piece, too, because it feels like for, you know, we've known each other for a while. Yes. And it feels like one of the magical things about your books is that you write them and you sort of write until you're done, and then the book. Then the book comes out. Right. It feels like you really do honor the text and the story in a. In a way that many of us, because of the way romance works, don't. Don't do. So I wonder if you. When you start, when you sort of come to a new series or to a new book, are you waiting for inspiration to strike before you start?
- [38:32]
Loretta Chase
No, I start writing, and this has to do with my training in art, which my art professor always said, do you wait for your inspiration? You might be waiting forever. Just start doing the work. So I start doing the work, and I find my way in the course of doing the work. So I have been able. Sometimes I've been able to write a nice long outline, and that works beautifully. And that did work beautifully. For me, for a number of books. And other times I just have to do it by the seat of my pants because that's the way the book wants to be written. So I have to do whatever. It's hard to say it again. Intuitive. It's, I'm doing whatever is working at the time. And lately it seems to be, sit down, start writing, see where it goes. Figure out the things as you go along. And then it's like, go back and make it come together. So it's a construction process. It's not linear at all. And it's, and I don't think my mind really is linear. And I don't think even my earlier books were all that linear. But I was able to work out plots in advance in a way that made my life much easier. But I just can't do that lately. No, I mean, I wish I could. I'm the same way, but I can't, so have to. Yeah, some, you know, you have a vague idea of what you want to do. It was like when I did the Dressmaker series, for instance. Okay. I thought, all right, I'd like to have three sisters. I have some idea of what they're trying to accomplish. I know what they want to do. They want to rule the world. And then it would be a matter of like, figuring out, okay, who are they? What are the differences between them? And then the plots start coming together, but they arise very much out of the characters. So if I don't know the characters, I can't get a story. I was, I would love to be able to write a plot and have the story go with it. Never.
- [40:45]
Sarah MacLean
Does that happen for anyone? I don't believe it.
- [40:49]
Jennifer Prokop
I think here I, I think character is really king in romance. Like, I, I, I think that's for me, at least as a reader.
- [40:58]
Loretta Chase
Right.
- [40:58]
Jennifer Prokop
I feel like when people start with a plot, sometimes I'm like, yeah, but why are these characters here? Yeah, right. Like, wait, that, yeah, that's not enough. I need to really believe that. How they got there.
- [41:10]
Loretta Chase
Yeah, they're not puppets.
- [41:13]
Sarah MacLean
This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Avery Maxwell, author of your Last First Kiss.
- [41:20]
Jennifer Prokop
Penny Mulligan is a mess. She has had a disastrous first marriage. She's basically the single mother to three perfect but rowdy boys and an ex husband who is a bunch of trouble. The only thing she has going for her is the perfect eye candy who shows up bringing coffee to her boss every Wednesday. Oh, Dylan Henry. He is just like perfect fantasy material. Handsome, charming, thoughtful, and she. But she's just like, not in a place for this. No.
- [41:51]
Sarah MacLean
She has three yes boys and an ex husband. Nobody has time for new people.
- [41:56]
Jennifer Prokop
So she, she is just like, I'm gonna have fantasies about Mr. Wednesday, but then Dylan freaking Henry shows up at her doorstep and he's totally into her and he is ready to just like, figure out a way to like, take the perfect chaos of her life and turn it into hea.
- [42:16]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, I love it. This is great for anybody who loves a small town romance. For people who are interested in single moms as heroines, friends to lovers, second chance, found family. If you want to read your last first kiss. What a title. You can find it in print or in ebook or with a monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. Thanks as always to Avery Maxwell for sponsoring the episode.
- [42:50]
Jennifer Prokop
We talk a lot. I think we explained, you know, I know Sarah experiences at a deep level that romance readers connect with. Connect with the books in such a way that, you know, almost everyone we've had on talks about letters they've received from readers or. Right. So what do readers tell you about. How about your books?
- [43:13]
Loretta Chase
Oh, my gosh. Particularly during COVID but before. I have had so many messages from people telling me the books helped them get through cancer, the books helped them get through grief, the books helped them get through Covid. And I mean, from the time I started writing romance, I really understood the value. But I think it's had much more of an impact in the last few years of what we do when we write romance. What we're doing for other people when we write romance is we're giving them a place to be where it's. Where things are okay. You know, it's going to come out right in the end. And the more difficult the world around you is, the more important it is to have this place where you can go. And I'm all for escapism. And I'm never going to hesitate to say that my books are escapist, because they are and I feel like they should be. So, yeah, I get. Yeah, I've had. I've had messages that just made me cry. And I think the last couple years have been so hard on people that it makes, in my view, romance more important than ever.
- [44:45]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [44:47]
Loretta Chase
Because we're giving them that safe place to be for the time of reading the book.
- [44:53]
Sarah MacLean
So you have, you know, people who have inspired you over the years and, you know, it sounds like you've had a group of other writers who you've connected with and who love research as much as you and But I wonder if you could talk about who are the, who are the people who you have spent who have really kept you going? Because I know that this isn't always an easy job. Right.
- [45:23]
Loretta Chase
Yeah. Well, you know, Susan Holloway Scott and I have been friends for a million years now, and we talk on the phone a lot. We go to Colonial Williamsburg. We meet up at Colonial Williamsburg almost every year. And, you know, she's really important part. She's just been, well, a really good friend and we can talk about. And that's part of the thing too, because, like, it was one of the great things I discovered when I started writing romance and I started going to conferences. It's like, oh, wow, I found my tribe you can talk to. We're talking to other women mostly who are writers, and we're living in that same environment and we're having the same struggles. And that's not something I'm going to be finding in my everyday life. I love my husband, I love my sisters, and I can talk to them about stuff, but not the way you can talk to other writers. So Susan's important. There have been a lot of people over the years. When I was first starting out, Mary Jo Putney was very, very encouraging to me. She reached out to me, sent me a letter. You know, early, early in my career, like with my first or second book, there was a little cabal of writers, Signet Regency writers with whom I was friends, and we would get together at conferences and, you know, and then over the years I've met more people. It's like now I, you know, chit chat with Caroline Linden. So it's evolving. But yeah, that's one of the great things that, the great discoveries for me when I started writing romance, it was like finding all these women and they were feminists like me, and we had similar goals and the same kinds of fights and the same kinds of people don't understand what I'm doing.
- [47:30]
Sarah MacLean
Do you feel like that's that sort of thing shifting now, or do you feel like we're still getting the same kind of response?
- [47:40]
Loretta Chase
I've, I'll tell you, I missed the conferences.
- [47:43]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, me too.
- [47:47]
Loretta Chase
I missed the one. It's like, yeah, zoom is nice, but it's not like person to person sitting in like the bar or outside a, a meeting place and hanging out with your friends and talking or meeting new people that way. The, the, the personal, direct conversations are something I miss very much. And I, I, I mean, my local writers group, it's like they, they haven't been able to have a conference because, well, once covered, sort of simmered down and it was possible. It's like, well, we need volunteers and people don't have time and people are overworked. So that's something I miss. I miss that community, in other words. And, and with this, the, the crash and burn of rwa, that's. That was. Yeah, that was bad. And, and romantic times, for all the craziness. That was a great way.
- [48:56]
Sarah MacLean
It really was, wasn't. Jen never experienced it. It was a whole ride.
- [49:07]
Loretta Chase
So I only did it once, but it was like it was such a trip. I was exhausted afterwards. But it was really wonderful fun.
- [49:15]
Sarah MacLean
So this is one of the hard questions, I think, but what do you think is the mark that your books have left on the genre or are continuing to leave on the genre?
- [49:34]
Loretta Chase
I don't know.
- [49:36]
Sarah MacLean
Maybe.
- [49:38]
Loretta Chase
I don't know. Someone else would have to tell me what mark they're leaving because, well, maybe.
- [49:45]
Sarah MacLean
We can try it this way. What do you think is the hallmark of a Loretta Chase novel?
- [49:52]
Loretta Chase
Okay. When I first started writing, the one thing that was very, very clear in my mind was that my heroin's going to be strong. They were not going to be victims. So there was that. The second thing was I was never going to write down to my readers. I was always going to assume everyone was smarter than I was. So that's informed what I've done. And then the other thing is. But the other thing has evolved, which is the research. And I feel as though it's possible for historical romance to get closer to that historical novel kind of approach to research and ground people in the world that you're writing about. And. But that doesn't mean that it has to be. But that's what I need to do. So I think that those, the three things is the very strong heroine, the not talking down to people and the world. Trying to create a historical world is as close to accurate as I can, but still without violating the trust my readers have that I'm going to keep them in a safe place where things are going to come out right. So I might touch on some ugly aspects of history, but I'm not going to force my readers to, to. To live in that because there things are crappy enough around them for most people. And that's not what they come to my books for the escape I want. I want them to have a lovely escape, feel like they're time traveling and dig the heroin the most.
- [51:55]
Jennifer Prokop
You know, do you think that we talk? I mean, you know, Sarah and I Have both been readers. She's been writing.
- [52:04]
Sarah MacLean
We don't have to count them.
- [52:05]
Jennifer Prokop
However, 20 years, whatever it is. Okay, sorry. We've been reading for a long time. I'm. One of our questions is sort of about, like, the ebb and flow of the genre. Right? Like, so how do you think you've seen romance change over time? Or do you have thoughts about where you see romance going in the.
- [52:31]
Loretta Chase
There has been ebb and flow for sure. Starting out in a world where traditional Regency romances were a big thing, and there are dozens and dozens of lines, and then they kind of lose their popularity. And then every few years we hear historical romance is dead. So I've heard that a bunch of times. And in fact, I'm hearing it lately.
- [52:54]
Sarah MacLean
Me too. But it doesn't die, right?
- [53:00]
Loretta Chase
Yeah, it doesn't seem to die. And the readers say they like going there. They want to go there, they want to be transported, they want that time travel aspect. They want to be taken farther away from current reality. And that's what historical romance does. I mean, contemporary romance also takes you away from. But there's still that element of, you know, the real world's there and there's some real world things we have to deal with. Whereas, you know, my people are going around in their little carriages and they don't know anything about cell phones and. And YouTube or Facebook or Tick Tock or any of those things. So it's like. It feels like it's a. An escape to a quieter time. And I think that I believe that will continue to be something that people like. People have always read historical books for hundreds of years. They don't always read books that are set in their own time period. So I think that's a continuing interest. But I really am not sure what's going to happen. You know, things are in an uproar right now. There's a lot of upheaval in the publishing industry. So it's a little puzzling in terms of other changes that I have seen. Well, there's definitely been one big change for the better, which is when I started out, almost pretty much like 99% of the books were by white authors and they were about white people. And now we have. We have books that have different cultural slants and we have books that are dealing with different kinds of sexuality. Early in my career, one of my gay friends said to me, are there any gay romances? And I said, I don't know about any. But now that's. But now that's there. So I think those Things are great that we have evolved to that point.
- [55:11]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. So we always like to ask two questions to wrap up. And the first is, which of your books do you hear the most about? Which is the book that readers come to you the most to discuss? And the second is, which is the book that you, as the writer, feel the most connection to, whatever way that means.
- [55:44]
Loretta Chase
Well, obviously. Obviously, the one I hear the most about is Worst Scoundrels.
- [55:49]
Sarah MacLean
That was an easy. That was a softball.
- [55:55]
Loretta Chase
Right, Right. So, like, when I. When I do some kind of a. If we do an in person thing and we have a bookstore there and they want to order books, I always have to have large scoundrels there because people want it, so. Which is. I mean, that's. That's a gift that someone. People still want to read my. My book that I wrote a long time ago, particularly in a genre that seems to have such a short shelf life. And in terms of what books I feel the best about or strongest about or love the most or whatever. Okay. Incredibly proud of Lord of Scoundrels. How can I not be? On the other hand, my favorite book is always the latest book, the one I most recently finished, because I like to feel that I'm getting better as a writer. So I felt very proud of the last two books. I especially felt very proud of 10 Things I Hate about the Duke. And I hope I'm gonna feel even better about this next book if I ever get it finished. Yeah. So much.
- [57:08]
Jennifer Prokop
Would you care to talk about that one at all?
- [57:11]
Loretta Chase
Yeah, I'm happy to talk about. No, no, it's good.
- [57:14]
Sarah MacLean
Jen knows already.
- [57:14]
Loretta Chase
People ask.
- [57:15]
Sarah MacLean
She's been around me long enough. Loretta.
- [57:17]
Jennifer Prokop
I know. I'm like.
- [57:18]
Sarah MacLean
She knows that these are sticky questions.
- [57:20]
Jennifer Prokop
I know. Exactly. I would never have brought it up if you had not mentioned it first. I just want to thank you.
- [57:28]
Loretta Chase
I appreciate that, but I.
- [57:31]
Jennifer Prokop
It's.
- [57:31]
Loretta Chase
I've had to. I've done a couple of blog posts because I just get so many. When's the third book coming out? Is there a third book? What Happened to the Blackwoods? Blah, blah. So I have this block again. And it started. Let's just say there was a political situation going on in the world that just depressed the daylights out of me and made me crazy, and it was just so incomprehensible. So there was that. And. And then in the middle of that comes Covid. Right. And you're thinking, oh, wow, this is such a great opportunity. I'm also isolated. I can't go anywhere. Seems wrong Write a book. Nothing blank. So I'm sitting in front of the computer every day, dutifully, because you don't wait for inspiration. You start writing. And I'm writing every single day. And I'm writing complete garbage, just boring crap day after day after day after day after day. So, yeah, that's what happens. And, you know, I had to tell my publisher and my agent, I said, I'm sorry, I can't deliver. I. The book's way. It's like, over a year overdue, and I'm just now starting to make it get together, but it's still a struggle. I feel like I'm emerging from the writer's block, but it's not coming the way it should be. So, you know, it's. It's been hard. This has been a really tough time. It's not any comfort to know I'm not the only one either. That's no comfort.
- [59:17]
Sarah MacLean
I mean, one of the questions. This is a question we get so often. I mean, we writers, and I'm sure you've gotten it a million times, but this question of writer's block, you know, what do you do? How do you come out from underneath it? And are you now, because you sort of feel like maybe the shroud is being lifted. Is there. Is there some piece of advice that you have for those of us out here who are also feeling weighted down by the world?
- [59:54]
Loretta Chase
I had. I. I've done a couple of approaches, so the first time I had writer's block, I just walked away and did something completely different, which was writing video scripts. It wasn't all that satisfying, but, boy, it pays really well.
- [60:13]
Sarah MacLean
Sure, good.
- [60:15]
Loretta Chase
And. But. But this time I just felt like I had to keep writing because then I felt like if I didn't keep writing, I would succumb to despair. And I didn't want to go there, so I kept writing. A couple of times I. I said, okay, I'm going to just stop for two weeks and see if that refreshes my brain. I'm going to go do this, I'm going to go do that. And we have traveled so, you know, refresh the brain. But this time I've just kept at it. I just keep writing in the hopes that things will start becoming clear, and it's actually working. The hero and the heroine have very gradually and reluctantly started letting me know who they are and what they want. And so that's incredibly encouraging to me. And also it helps if you have someone to talk to that's a trusted professional, and I am Very fortunate in my agent and editor. So I can talk to them about things and bounce ideas off them, show the material and have them come back and make. Give me little bits of inspiration here and there. I think we each have to find our own way out of this. I. I know I've. I've heard of people say, well, I just walk away for a couple of days and it comes back days.
- [61:51]
Jennifer Prokop
Is that writer's block or is that just like a writer's birthday burp? I mean, exactly.
- [61:56]
Loretta Chase
That's a good, good analogy. Yeah. So I think for me right now, what's been working is to just keep writing. Just keep writing. Because I'm a writer. Even if it's crap, it's something and you never know what. What's going to come out of it. And that's happened a few times. It was like, I'm writing crap. I'm writing crap. I'm writing. Sure. Okay. I can work with this. So that's been the approach. I would not wish this on anybody. It sucks. But there is going to be a book.
- [62:28]
Sarah MacLean
Great. We're ready when you are.
- [62:33]
Loretta Chase
No, I. I told my agent, I said, I'm going to write this book. I have to write this book. I need to write this book. I want to write this book. It's going to get rid one way or another.
- [62:44]
Jennifer Prokop
I just want to say this was amazing because I tried to keep my cool the entire time. I just want everyone to appreciate that.
- [62:54]
Sarah MacLean
If you live in New England or feel like coming to New England, Loretta is going to be at the Ashland Public Library in Massachusetts on Saturday, May 20, 2023 for the ROM Con up there. The Ashland Public Library has a great romantic romance novelist event. And it's outdoors and it's a whole day long. And I'll be there, too. And so will Megan Frampton and Caroline Linden, so historical writers. And Sandra Kitt will be there too. So. Who is also a trailblazer. So you can join us there. We'll put ticket information in, show notes for everyone, but you can get your copies of all your favorite Loretta Chase books signed.
- [63:40]
Loretta Chase
Yes, I'm looking forward to that. I did it last fall and it.
- [63:44]
Sarah MacLean
Was so I'm looking forward to it too.
- [63:47]
Loretta Chase
So, Sarah, you're going to have a great time. You're going to have a great time.
- [63:50]
Sarah MacLean
I will hopefully not have Covid this year.
- [63:53]
Loretta Chase
That's.
- [63:53]
Sarah MacLean
I'm going to try my best. Loretta, this was amazing. You are always amazing. I love hearing you talk.
- [64:03]
Loretta Chase
So it's wonderful talking to you both. It really is you have just, like, such a great sensibility and sensitivity about the genre and about the authors. It's really a pleasure. Thank you.
- [64:20]
Sarah MacLean
Listen, it was special. It just came to her fully formed, like Athena or like JR Ward.
- [64:28]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm also fascinated by the dichotomy between the way Lord of Scoundrels came to her. And then I would. She didn't say it, but I would imagine that then struggling with writer's block would be all that more painful if you had that kind of experience. Right?
- [64:46]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, presumably. I mean, I'm really. I was really grateful to hear her talk about writer's block, actually. I mean, a lot of this. For those of you listening, you probably got the sense that this was more about the writing, this conversation, than really, I think any of them have been, which was obviously really wonderful for me, you know, and for probably every writer out there who's listening. But listening to somebody talk about how they struggle with writer's block is really interesting because, as I said in the conversation, we get a lot of. We get a lot of questions as writers about writer's block, and the instinct is always to just sort of wave it away and say, oh, I don't believe in writer's block. Writer's block isn't real. Just keep pushing. Like, it's not a fun job.
- [65:32]
Loretta Chase
You.
- [65:32]
Sarah MacLean
You just. It's. It's not that you're blocked. It's just that, you know, you have to sit your ass in the chair. And so it was really good to hear her say, no, it is real. And for those of us who have gone through serious issues, serious, like grief, you know, anxiety about the world, it can be debilitating.
- [65:54]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah, well. And I was also really fascinated to hear that she's essentially grappled with it twice and that it presented in a different way both times, because I think that's other. What I feel like is sort of a, you know, like that writer's block is just like its own thing. It's a thing, and it's like, no, just like anything, it can manifest itself in lots of different ways. And so, you know, one time it was. She just kind of put everything down and walked away from it and just did something totally different. And then this time, she really is taking the. Put your butt in the chair and kind of move through it. And I think that that is also probably really great tier, because how you have to be able to say to yourself, like, this is what I'm struggling with. It's okay that it looks different than someone else's Writer's block, for example, or it looks different the last time I struggled with this. And I think that's gotta be really powerful.
- [66:50]
Sarah MacLean
Think about the kind of bravery it takes to say, I am experiencing this thing. It is related to my. In. In the original case, grief. And to solve this problem, I'm going to walk away and buy my contract back. I mean, we haven't talked about that. Nobody has talked to us about that. But that does happen. You know, you can't finish. And so to get out from under it, you. You pay the publisher back.
- [67:21]
Loretta Chase
Yeah.
- [67:21]
Jennifer Prokop
Write your advance. Right.
- [67:23]
Sarah MacLean
And take the book away and. But what a. Also just brilliant person she is. I mean, just somebody who thinks, clearly thinks so much about the writing. I was not at all surprised when Ellen Edwards said, go read Kinsale.
- [67:44]
Jennifer Prokop
Of course, we've all, Many of us have experienced the. The way the genre is sort of shamed. Right. And the way that people allow themselves to sort of say, like, oh, I like this. As I have. I have a friend who's a reader who mostly read fantasy and then sort of had, like, when she sort of finally said to me, I like romance too. It came in a very similar way, which was like, I always like those subplots in books, the love story part. So what would it be like to just allow myself to read that part? Right.
- [68:21]
Sarah MacLean
Or write that part, in Loretta's case, to rewrite those stories and provide them with happily ever afters. Yeah. What a cool. Also. What a cool way of coming to it and thinking, like, I want to write a novel, but I know my brain requires limitations and scope and strategy, and therefore I'm going to turn to.
- [68:50]
Jennifer Prokop
Genre because it's going to give me that structure. Yeah, I thought that was fascinating.
- [68:54]
Sarah MacLean
We are releasing this episode much later in time than when we recorded it. But it made me think about what. There was a sort of silly article that, you know, floated by on social media yesterday about a person who decided they were going to write romance because clearly that's where the money was. Right? Spoiler alert. There was no money for this particular person because they weren't very good at the job. But the, the. But what's fascinating is the difference between those two avenues, right? Like, this was Loretta saying, I have creativity in me. I have the chops to write a novel, but I just need guidelines because if I don't, I'll never tell a story. And what a cool way of coming to romance and then dominating it. I mean, also, what was wrong with readers in 1995? The Lord of Scoundrels was amazing.
- [69:57]
Jennifer Prokop
That also was a year where there were not. I mean, now with the rise of self publishing, right, Literally thousands of books being released a year. More than that, thousands a week. It feels like a month, right? I mean, so I'm fascinated to think too, like, what are the books that are coming out now that it's going to take everybody 10 or 12 years to discover? I mean, that's also like, what I think of as being the best part about romance is, you know, things. Don't get me wrong. I think we all know that things can be dated, right? Or you can read an older book that feels dated in a way. But there is something magical about picking up a book from 25 years ago, right, in romance and having it be just as sort of powerfully like, moving as it was what the year was published. And I think that can be true of all of genre fiction. You know, people have heard me talk about Jack Reacher when I've been re. Listening to Jack Reacher when I drive. And the biggest change is about technology, right. And so it's really fascinating to like, sort of think like, well, what are the things that like data book and when it's historical, especially when it's rooted in historical research that doesn't get triggered the same way often.
- [71:18]
Loretta Chase
Hmm.
- [71:19]
Sarah MacLean
You're absolutely right. I loved a lot of this conversation. I love that she. She clocked Jane and Krentz's powerful impact on historicals, which we talked a little bit about in the Jane Ann Krentz Trailblazer episode. But hearing it from the mouth of Loretta Chase, right. Jane Ann Krentz became Amanda Quick and gave us all a blueprint for how to write these books differently. You know, just makes me smile. It makes me really happy that it was. It was all interconnected in such a powerful way.
- [72:00]
Jennifer Prokop
Those first Amanda Quicks were like late 80s, right? 88 or 89 maybe.
- [72:07]
Sarah MacLean
Sounds right.
- [72:09]
Jennifer Prokop
And Dangerous Men and adventurous women was 1990 too.
- [72:15]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah, it.
- [72:16]
Jennifer Prokop
It was both the book, right? Both the books and the explicit naming of what romance was trying to achieve.
- [72:26]
Sarah MacLean
Yes.
- [72:27]
Jennifer Prokop
And I was also really fascinated to hear her talk about that, like, kind of pop culture book. I can't remember the name of it now, but like talking, right? Like the way people talk to each other. Like, I remember reading that book. I remember it wasn't quite like Men Are for Mars, Women are from Venus, like that old dumb thing. But it was just. And it was really fascinating, I think also to think too just about. And we say this all the time, like, romance is so responsive to what is going on in society. And it was really interesting to hear Loretta name some of those things really explicitly.
- [73:01]
Sarah MacLean
She's remarkable. If you have not read a Loretta Chase book, now is your chance. You should read Lord of Scoundrels and then go back and listen to the Deep Dive episode that we did. We'll put links in show notes or go off and read Mr. Impossible set in Egypt. And then do yourself a favor, give yourself a treat and watch Brendan Fraser's the Mummy. And know why? Romance? Twitter.
- [73:28]
Jennifer Prokop
Sarah, can I. Can I confess something?
- [73:31]
Loretta Chase
Yeah.
- [73:31]
Jennifer Prokop
I've never seen that movie.
- [73:33]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, Jennifer.
- [73:36]
Jennifer Prokop
What. What year. Wait, what year did it come out? Could someone.
- [73:38]
Sarah MacLean
1999.
- [73:40]
Jennifer Prokop
Okay.
- [73:41]
Sarah MacLean
And I know you and I have a little thing coming. A little thing that actually might have already been announced, but if it has not already been announced, we have this little thing happening. And maybe a rewatch of the Mummy is a thing that we can do a re.
- [73:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Watch for you. A watch. Watch for me.
- [73:57]
Sarah MacLean
A watch. Watch for you. Maybe we should have Bee and her books join us.
- [74:02]
Jennifer Prokop
I'm writing this down on my. Look. I have a little pad of paper, everybody, and it says bad ideas. Oh. And I write things down that are good ideas.
- [74:10]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, it's ironic.
- [74:11]
Jennifer Prokop
It is. I don't let this. This note paper does not boss me around. The Mummy. That's a great idea.
- [74:19]
Sarah MacLean
You will delight in it because it is part of our mutual favorite genre. Beautiful people blowing things up.
- [74:28]
Jennifer Prokop
I mean.
- [74:29]
Loretta Chase
Yeah.
- [74:29]
Jennifer Prokop
Hello. I really love. I love Brendan old. I mean, I'm sorry, we should be talking about Loretta Chase, but she wouldn't mind. Loretta would understand, I think.
- [74:36]
Sarah MacLean
I mean, she wrote a whole book based on it, so I think she's Okay.
- [74:39]
Jennifer Prokop
I love. God, I love those Brendan Fraser movies. I love the one where he's, like, trapped underground with his, like, fusty parents because they think nuclear war is coming.
- [74:48]
Sarah MacLean
And then that one, it's.
- [74:50]
Jennifer Prokop
And then he pops out onto the surface, like in modern times, and he's. It is hilarious.
- [74:57]
Sarah MacLean
I mean, he was a treat.
- [74:59]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah. And he's like a great swing dancer, but, like. Because that's. You know what I mean? And that was, like, when swing was really popular. It was. Oh, my God, I can't remember the title.
- [75:08]
Sarah MacLean
It's great the way I wept when he won the Oscar this year and, like, gave a speech that was just about, like, being. Still being here. Like, just still being here, along with the guy from everything everywhere, all at once. Who was also in Indiana Jones.
- [75:23]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [75:24]
Loretta Chase
And Goonies.
- [75:24]
Jennifer Prokop
These are. Look, our Childhood.
- [75:27]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah.
- [75:27]
Jennifer Prokop
I think I loved listening to Loretta Chase. I especially really like. One of my favorite questions is kind of, what is the hallmark of your books? And I loved her answer in particular. Right. Like the answer about, I never. I always assume my readers are smarter than me. Right. I always, like, I. I pledge to never write down to them. And I think romance readers know. I think we know when that's the case because we are so fine tuned. Right. Like, so calibrated to hear that those discordant notes of when someone is like, trying, as you said at the beginning.
- [76:06]
Loretta Chase
Right.
- [76:06]
Jennifer Prokop
To write, to market. I can make money here. These people I can make money off of versus these people have a similar interest in the same stories as me. And I want to write books for them.
- [76:17]
Sarah MacLean
Yeah. And it also, when she said that, it made me realize that, I mean, and this is not just a hallmark of historicals, but it is a hallmark of historicals that often historical writer. That is something that happens in historicals where we sort of trust the reader to come along with us on this ride and we're going to show you the world and you're going to know the history and you're going to know the. You know what's happening. And if you don't, it's going to be okay.
- [76:49]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [76:50]
Sarah MacLean
God, she just made me. She. Every time I talk to Loretta, I just feel good about writing historicals.
- [76:55]
Jennifer Prokop
Yeah.
- [76:55]
Sarah MacLean
I feel like it's nice to be sort of even remotely in the room, breathing the air of someone like her.
- [77:01]
Loretta Chase
Yeah.
- [77:02]
Jennifer Prokop
Well, it sounds like you guys are going to have a great time.
- [77:04]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, yeah. So come see us in. Oh, gosh. We have to make sure this goes. This gets out before then.
- [77:10]
Jennifer Prokop
It's on my bad ideas list, don't you worry.
- [77:13]
Sarah MacLean
Oh, all right, good. So this will be out. It will probably be in the next couple of weeks, this event in. In Boston. And we hope that you'll join us.
- [77:24]
Jennifer Prokop
Thanks for having us, everybody. Thanks for having us in your ear holes. And thanks to Loretta Chase for just being. That was a really inspiring conversation. I loved it.
- [77:33]
Sarah MacLean
God, for making me just want to put on a murder dress every day.
- [77:37]
Loretta Chase
Every day.
- [77:38]
Jennifer Prokop
What a gift.
- [77:41]
Sarah MacLean
All right. Goodbye, my friends.