S07:08 I Read Dead People: Ghosts, Morticians, and the Dead in Romance

Summary

Fated Mates - A Romance Novel Podcast Episode: S07:08 I Read Dead People: Ghosts, Morticians, and the Dead in Romance
Release Date: October 27, 2024
Hosts: Sarah MacLean & Jen Prokop

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Introduction

In this poignant and introspective episode of Fated Mates, hosts Sarah MacLean and Jen Prokop delve into the themes of death, dying, grief, and their portrayal in contemporary romance novels. Set against the backdrop of the recent pandemic, the discussion explores how romance literature has evolved to incorporate elements like ghosts, morticians, and the funeral industry, providing a mirror to societal experiences with loss and mourning.

Exploring Death and Grief in Romance Novels

The episode opens with Sarah and Jen acknowledging the somber themes they intend to explore. Sarah (00:00) sets the stage by mentioning, "This week's episode of Fated Mates will include a conversation on death, dying, grief, and the pandemic." Despite the heavy subject matter, Sarah notes the surprising humor found in many of these stories, hinting at a unique blend of emotions within the genre.

Key Trends: Ghosts, Funeral Homes, and Mortuary Settings

Rise of Paranormal and Mortuary Romances

Both hosts observe a noticeable trend in romance novels where the settings and characters are intertwined with death-related professions and supernatural elements. Sarah (09:54) mentions, "Since the pandemic, there's been a growing number of romances set in and around funeral parlors, morgues, and funeral homes." This shift introduces a complex dynamic where love stories unfold amidst the contexts of mortality and the supernatural.

Impact of the Pandemic

Jen (12:11) adds, "I believe almost all of them [...] the pandemic happened. Covid happened in real life, but in these books, it's like the specter of the pandemic is there." The pandemic's pervasive influence is subtly woven into these narratives, reflecting the collective experiences of grief and loss experienced globally.

Book Reviews and Highlights

1. Undertaking of Heart and Mercy

Sarah and Jen discuss Undertaking of Heart and Mercy, highlighting its unique blend of romance and dark humor within the funeral industry. Sarah (14:03) states, "It's a workplace romance in a lot of ways," emphasizing the balance between professional settings and personal relationships.

2. Pumpkin Spice and Poltergeist by Ali Mumford and Elle Morrison

Jen (20:43) reviews this paranormal romantic comedy where ghosts play matchmaker. She explains, "Lou essentially plays ghostly matchmaker to Jordan and Harlow," showcasing how supernatural elements can drive character development and romantic plotlines.

3. Rules for Ghosting by Shelly J. Shore

Sarah (29:07) praises Rules for Ghosting for its rich community depiction and nuanced handling of ghostly interactions. Jen (47:15) adds, "There's a clear point of view," recognizing the book's thoughtful approach to death care within the narrative.

4. A Ghost in Shining Armor by Therese Behari

Jen (71:06) explores this title, detailing how it intertwines family secrets with ghostly romance. She notes, "The romance with him and Jonathan is complicated by this fact that Ben is there," highlighting the complexities ghosts introduce into love stories.

5. Undertaking Love by Megan Montgomery

Sarah (84:54) lauds Undertaking Love for its compelling characters and engaging plot set in the mortuary business. Jen (91:34) emphasizes the book's exploration of patriarchy and respect for death care professionals, stating, "It's a classic contemporary romance journey."

6. Big Witch Energy by Molly Harper

Sarah (78:01) discusses this historical retelling of the Persephone myth, applauding its integration of historical elements with romantic and supernatural themes. Jen (90:47) reflects on the book's portrayal of generational loss and family curses, noting its depth and emotional resonance.

7. Haunted Ever After by Jen DeLuca

Jen (105:13) reviews this title, focusing on its blend of humor and heartfelt romance amidst a haunted setting. Both hosts appreciate how the book balances light-hearted moments with the heavier themes of loss and moving on.

8. Morning Wood by [Author Not Specified]

Sarah (97:43) shares her enthusiasm for Morning Wood, highlighting its unique approach to romance within the funeral home environment. Jen (96:15) compliments the book's quirky and authentic portrayal of characters dealing with personal loss.

Reflections on the Pandemic's Influence on Romance

Sarah (107:08) and Jen (107:11) reflect on the collective mourning experienced during the pandemic and how romance novels have provided a space for readers to navigate their grief. Sarah observes, "Death is hard and weird and complicated and stupid and also weirdly funny," encapsulating the multifaceted emotions that these novels portray.

Jen (107:37) adds, "I found myself feeling a really deep sense of, like, gratefulness that, like, this genre that we love so much is so expansive and has found ways to provide a way for us collectively to think about what it would mean to say goodbye to over a million people."

Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Sarah (107:51) and Jen (107:58) express their appreciation for how romance novels have evolved to address profound societal issues like death and grief. They emphasize the importance of storytelling in helping individuals process loss and find solace through relatable narratives. Sarah poignantly states, "If you did lose somebody during the pandemic, we are sorry, and we see you," underscoring the podcast's empathetic connection with its listeners.

As they conclude, the hosts express hope for future episodes to continue exploring meaningful and reflective themes within the romance genre, inviting listeners to engage with the community and discover new literary gems.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sarah McLean (03:04): “Remember, remember the 5th of November. The gunpowder, Treason and plot.”

• Jen Prokop (11:44): “I feel this is probably doing the same work, but on an emotional, different emotional register.”

• Sarah McLean (22:19): “There is something very comfortable probably to that. The people who are gone are still with us is the most comforting idea there is.”

• Jen Prokop (27:34): “...the characters in order to help the ghosts move on had to reckon with the way they themselves shared qualities that the ghosts had.”

• Sarah McLean (29:09): “There is something more.”

• Jen Prokop (95:25): “I think the whole idea of, like, the weight of knowing that you can see the dead and you feel this responsibility towards all these ghosts...”

These quotes encapsulate the hosts' exploration of how romance novels are uniquely addressing themes of death and grief, providing both comfort and reflection for readers navigating similar emotions.

Transcript

[Sarah McLean]

This week's episode of Faded Mates will include a conversation on death, dying, grief, and the pandemic. So take that as it comes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Hard to banter after that, I suppose.

[Sarah McLean]

But, you know, it's fine. You know, here's the thing that I was. I was talking to Eric about today is like, these books are genuinely funny, a lot of them. And I mean, I think that we'll get into why that is. But I, like, I had a number of experiences where I was like, oh, no, this is a genuinely funny situation that these people are in. But before we get into that, let's just quickly get Fated States out of the way, okay? Because I want to do some housekeeping. Typically, we talk about Fade Estates at the end of the episode, but I want to talk about at the beginning of the episode this year. This year.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week.

[Sarah McLean]

This week, which feels like a year, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, because next week is a big week.

[Sarah McLean]

There's an election coming in the United States, everyone. I don't know if you've heard, if you haven't, bless. I hope you're having the greatest life. It sounds amazing. We have one more week of phone banking, and we're calling Michigan this week on Saturday from 1 to 3pm Eastern Time. Join us. And join us for lots of reasons. Join us because we no longer hold the indivisible phone banking record. And I'm very upset about that and I would like to. So we need more people in the phone bank. Join us to save democracy. Note that I possess. Second, like, first things first.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We are who we are in times of crisis. We really show our true selves.

[Sarah McLean]

Join us to bring Michigan home for Harris Walsh and Democrats up and down the ticket. Sadly, Eminem will not be joining us, though he is doing a lot of work around Michigan.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What a guy.

[Sarah McLean]

Maybe we should ask him.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He definitely.

[Sarah McLean]

Jen, you only get one shot.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So I've heard. You know, join us for the feeling of community that you will. You will have in the phone bank. Right? And that is, I think, the biggest part. And along with it, that feeling of a community working together towards a common goal.

[Sarah McLean]

And the fleeting moment of, like, okay, I did a thing. I did something like I moved a needle. Yeah, a tiny little movement in the needle you pulled on a thread along with lots of other people. So to do that, go to fatedmates.net fadedstates and sign up for the Michigan Phone bank, which is the only one left. We're gonna leave it all on the field. All gas, no breaks, right through the 5th of November. Remember, remember the 5th of November. Do you know this?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I remember, Remember the. It's not the 5th of November, right? Is that what you say it is.

[Sarah McLean]

The 5th of November. Remember, remember the 5th of November. The gunpowder, Treason and plot.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, is this about.

[Sarah McLean]

You know it from V from For Vendetta?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I was like, I think I know this from a movie. You do?

[Sarah McLean]

You know this from V for Vendetta, which features that, like, strangely attractive guy who is in the Matrix. Mr. Smith. That guy. Hugo Weaving. Hugo Weaving and Natalie Portman.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I believe so. Yes. That is correct.

[Sarah McLean]

That's a great movie. V for Vendetta. Everybody should go watch that. It's very fun. But in actual fact, that comes from Guy Fawkes Day.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I was gonna say it's Guy Fawkes Day, right? Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, you know about Guy Fawkes. You read romance novels?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I read romance novels. Come on, Sarah.

[Sarah McLean]

But I really, today was like, oh, my God.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, we.

[Sarah McLean]

And I posted to Threads today. I was like, Remember, remember, the 5th of November is really. It's coming back, like, a different kind of vibe this year.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure, sure.

[Sarah McLean]

The Gunpowder, Treason and plot. So, anyway, here's what we're going to do, everybody. We're all going to take a deep breath, try to mitigate some anxiety. We're gonna phone bank together, we're gonna talk to our friends who haven't early voted, and we're gonna bring this home. I feel. Yeah. Nauseatingly optimistic. That's what I. I found a tweet that I posted to my Instagram feed the other day that said that, and it felt right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know what? I feel like the electorate is the one that keeps bringing us home and saying, we don't want this, we don't want this, we don't want this. And so that's all I can do. I think it's also getting the point where we're seeing, you know, huge lines of people early voting in places. And, you know, and so I'm typically not an early voter. I really like to vote the day of, but my anxiety is so high that I might early vote early vote.

[Sarah McLean]

And then just go lay down on the sticky floor of a Chicago tavern and just wait. Sure.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, I am with my people. I mean. And you know what? I will say I. I think a lot about how lucky I am to work in my office with people who feel like me. And so there's a lot of solidarity. It's just really important. So that's why we phone bank, and that's why we find each other.

[Sarah McLean]

We have A big guess coming this weekend too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, we do. I thought Sue Brockman saying that if you really phone banking to voters feels too stressful, you could sign up to do ballot curing. Phone banking, A lot of people find that to be far less stressful because you're only calling voters whose b. Whose mail in ballots have. Have a. A mistake, and you're essentially calling them to get them to fix it. So it's like you're. You're talking to a voter with. You know what I mean? So I.

[Sarah McLean]

You already know they have voted. It's already done.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And you know that you're literally like every person I talk to. I am literally moving the needle because this ballot that was on was incorrect. Right. Or had something missing now can be processed so correct. We can put some links in there. I thought that was, like, really good advice.

[Sarah McLean]

Sue's the fairy godmother of foam banks. It's amazing. She should run Faded States. Welcome, everyone, to Faded mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor.

[Sarah McLean]

And as part of the writing part of my job, I had a meeting this week at Ballantine Books, which is my publish. The publisher for my contemporary novel, which is coming out in the summer. And I had lunch with my editor, Shawna Summers, after the meeting, and she told me that she edited all those Troubleshooters books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Amazing.

[Sarah McLean]

And I was like, a dream editor.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And she's the one who edited those Molly O'Keeffe books.

[Sarah McLean]

Everything I left unsaid. So listen. And she listens to the podcast. So. Hi, Shawna. And also, thanks for all those great books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I'm like, hi, Shauna. AI won't make. AI is gonna make. Quit my job teaching. Do you want to hire me? I live in Chicago. I'm a nice person.

[Sarah McLean]

No, it's a romance novel.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know romance novel.

[Sarah McLean]

So, anyway, I'm sorry, we won't talk about AI though. I can't talk about the election and.

[Jennifer Prokop]

AI no too much.

[Sarah McLean]

Only one end of days situation at a time. But I do just want to give a shout out to two people. I want to shout out Tim Walls, who called Elon Musk dipshit at a rally this week. Amazing. Which, like, somebody on Threads was like, this is the, like, peak Midwest. Oh, yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The way he's like, like dip. I like. I mean, I completely like and channel that. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And then I want to shout out Eminem, who has done. He did speak at a rally, but this Morning. Elon Musk came for him on Twitter. And now I. I await the diss track.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, I cannot wait for how he is going to just destroy that dipshit. I also appreciated someone on Threads the other day was like, did Eminem get.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Hot facial hair.

[Sarah McLean]

Things?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know. I said the same thing. And I was like, I have to turn this off. I'm so confused by my feelings right now. Anyway, it's a strange time. 2024.

[Sarah McLean]

Anyway, it is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It is strange.

[Sarah McLean]

Here we go. So what do we do? Should I talk about what we're doing today, or do you want to talk about it? You talk about it. You have something to say.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We have been for the past year and a half talking about the question of how the pandemic has. Is presenting in romance and how we on the podcast could talk about grief. The pandemic. Right. All those things. And so this has been, like, sort of an ongoing question. I would say. Wouldn't you say that's true. And would. Then. And. And we just kept not wanting to do it. And. And I think then a couple of things happened, like, simultaneously. One is you. I think, as you always notice, we're big pattern watchers here, right? Like, a pattern emerges, and we're like, well, what does it mean? So Sarah noticed a pattern, and then I was the one who's like, we should talk about this on, like, the Day of the Dead, essentially, which is. It's not. This episode is airing on October 30th. But I was like, let's wait to do it around this time.

[Sarah McLean]

You wanted a thin veil.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I did. I didn't. I did. So I was like, listen, we're just.

[Sarah McLean]

Gonna be as close to the other side as we could get.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I did. I did.

[Sarah McLean]

So, I mean, I've talked about it on the podcast a little bit. Like, I've sort of mentioned it now and then, because I started to notice that there was a growing number of romances set in and around funeral parlors, like mortuaries, morgues, funeral homes, casket makers. Like, a bunch of things that just felt like, this is not a world that I have ever seen in a romance. In romance before, there's, like, one Tessa Bailey book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It came out two weeks after the. After the shutdown, right?

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, but, I mean, she didn't write it in the. I mean, she writes fast, so. But I don't think she wrote it that fast. But, like, since, like, I couldn't think. I mean, all those years of categories where, like, all those weird jobs existed and I couldn't think of any. And. And please, if you are out there and, like, you can think of a category from the 80s or 90s that touched on this, like, I would be really interested in it. I just couldn't find any evidence that we had ever been in funeral homes. And it makes sense in a lot of ways, right? Like, because grief, not grief, death is sort of the antithesis of love in a lot of ways. Like love the happily ever after. How do you have a happily ever after if you're like, surrounded death? And certainly I could think of romances where the hero was death or the like, paranormal romances where we sort of, like, cut into that world. But the actual contemporary and in some cases historical romance that was in and around, like, the business of death was really interesting to me. And it was so obvious to me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

That it was pandemic related, though. I looked in. I want to say almost. Almost all. I want to say all, but I think it was just almost all. I searched for both Covid and Pandemic when I went back for, you know, to put this together for the podcast. And nobody mentions it. So it's like the pandemic happened. Covid happened in real life, but in these books, it's like the specter of the pandemic is there.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sarah has been noticing this or. Or like, kind of keeping this list.

[Sarah McLean]

It's also such a weird thing, I should say. I mean, like, anybody who listens to podcast knows this. I am. I'm really interested in weird in romance. Like, when people do weird stuff. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Let alone where, like, all of a sudden everybody's doing the same weird thing all together.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Three years after the pandemic, I have.

[Sarah McLean]

Another one that I have another. Another thing that now I'm, like, collecting works. I'm collecting books on too, that I'm gonna keep a secret from everyone. But I'll tell you later.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So Sarah and I have been clocking this, like, keeping track of it. I would be like, look at this one. Or sending them to her. And the reason it has taken us so long to get here is because I don't want to read these books.

[Sarah McLean]

Right. We knew. Well, because I will. I'll also talk about this when we talk about the books. But, like, what's super weird about these books is almost all of them have embalming or some sort of, like, death.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Like the apparatus. Actual working dead bodies.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. Function of death business on the page.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And I am just, like, not interested in these books and not just, like, not interested Like, I don't want to read them.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, specifically. Not interested.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Specifically, like. And. And look, I don't feel really bad admitting that because.

[Sarah McLean]

Not for Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, not for Jen. And it's funny because I spent a lot of time thinking, like, it's not like I'm any stranger to, like, violence or dead bodies in books. I read Reacher, for God's sakes. But I think there is a big difference between dead bodies and corpses is where it broke down for me.

[Sarah McLean]

Let's dig into this, because I've also said recently that I've, you know, you and I have talked about Butcher and Blackbird, which I read, and like, oh.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I quit on. I quit on the first paragraph. Body horror is not for me.

[Sarah McLean]

But what's interesting about these books is it's not horror. It's just like, now we're embalming this body.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That is body horror to me.

[Sarah McLean]

I want to just underscore that for listeners. Like, it's not the same as Butcher and Blackbird. It's like a much more. It's a workplace romance in a lot of ways. Like, this is. We could be, I don't know, making espresso, but instead we're embalming this body. It's a curious. I'm not. I'm not like, saying that to, like, win you over. What? I'm just putting it out there that, like, when we talk about these books, it's a weird. It's weird. This is gonna be weird for you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So everybody knows, like, in my day job, I'm a. I'm a teacher, right? And one of the things that I have really come to believe over the course of my teaching career is that there's a lot of things we do to teach people to, like, read, like, read past their own, right? Like, I don't. Their feelings of, like, this is not for me, not for Jen. And part of me is like, sure, that's fine and appropriate, right? Like, you have to try things and, you know, that's how it works. But I do think that I also feel really strongly like if you know something is not for you, it's not just for you. Especially in genre fiction, right? It's not going to speak to you. And I think the difference to me is, like, I would never say these books should not exist. I would never say they're not romance. I would never say that. It's. You know what I mean? I just know. I'm like, I don't want to read about it. I don't want to. I don't want to read about embalming, full stop. I did not watch Nip Tuck or no, not Nip Tuck.

[Sarah McLean]

Six Feet Under.

[Jennifer Prokop]

There's a movie about Six Feet Under.

[Sarah McLean]

See, that was like my favorite show when it was on. I'm really fascinated by this as, like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

A thing for a long time. For months and months, it has been kind of a like, is Sarah gonna have to do this episode with somebody? El but we do want to talk.

[Sarah McLean]

If you hadn't figured out a way, I would have eventually figured out a way to, like, give this list to somebody. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Brianna Bancroft, author of a Dash of Desire series. Book one, the Businesswoman and the Bartender, Book two, the Librarian and the Mechanic, and book three, the Maestro and the Roofer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So as you can already tell, each of these features a couple where they have essentially, like, there's a little bit of clothes, class differences, like, built into the system where the woman is always the one who's like, a bit of higher class. And those can be really interesting and fun reads. And each of these is also a novella where the couple, the people in the couple have gotten out of recent relationships. They're in their 30s. They're just, like, looking for love with someone new. So in the Businesswoman and the Bartender, New Yorker April Markham has gone to Seattle for a business trip and hits it off and hits it with handsome bartender Nick in the Librarian and the Mechanic, Malorie has just gotten out of an emotionally abusive marriage when her car breaks down and along comes Joel Foster to fix it and fix her right up. And in the Maestro and the Roofer, Mia has had a legendary fall from grace. So she books herself into a seaside cottage in order to, like, kind of get her groove back when a storm blows in. Handsome roofer Trav Flynn shows up to cover her and cover that roof. So these flings are gonna grow into something deeper. And because each of these books is only about 80 pages and priced at 99 cents, you can just, like, dive in, have the full romance just, like, unfold right in front of you, and then, like, move on to the next great book.

[Sarah McLean]

If this sounds like exactly what you need this week, just short bites of delicious romance, you can find these three no is on sale right now in ebook or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. In podcasting apps that support it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Brianna Bancroft for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Earlier this summer, I started noticing a Pattern in paranormal and paranormal snot, like ghosts, ghost paranormals, I guess, which is first of all an uptick of them. And don't get me wrong, there's. This is a difference. There have always been romances with ghosts that I can go back a long way. But the difference to me, it seemed, was that a lot of the ghostly books of the past were that, like, the place was haunted and the people, you know, like. I don't know, the ghost was sort of like this, like, presence that they were either afraid of. Of or they had to learn not to be afraid of or whatever. But what I was started to notice this year was that a recurring plot that I saw happening in three or four books that I read in a span of like six or eight weeks, maybe not that they all came out together, but that just, like I started when I read them or like I was reading early copies of some or whatever, was a very specific plot where the ghosts were on page. And it was the job of the human main characters to show these ghosts were, like, trapped in our reality. And it was the job of the people on page to help the ghosts move on to the afterlife, their own afterlife. That something about. And I. And I was like, I think this is probably doing the same work, but on an emotional. Like a different. At a different emotional register. And so we then started calling this episode, which we agreed we would do around Day of the Dead. Right. As, like, I see dead people. Yeah, right. And because it's just kind of like a similar. Like a very similar vibe. So it was just like a way for both of us, I think, to approach maybe, like, work romance is doing around the pandemic and, like, the different ways that that is presenting itself. Now. I. Before we do that, I want to say I think that there are other ways the pandemic is presenting itself in romance.

[Sarah McLean]

Okay, let's talk about those things.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I just think, like, the uptick of cancer is a plot or as people dealing with a sick or dying relative. Right. Like, I think, you know, just grief in general kind of appear more often as, like, something characters can explicitly say that they are dealing with. Right. So I think, like, those things are also probably part of the pandemic and romance piece. But I just think it's also not as interesting maybe, as, like, what these books might be doing to us in person. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And I think this is a place to talk about humor because I think that a lot of these books call themselves rom coms. And I want to, you know, caveat. Caveat. Faded mates. Caveat about rom coms, right? Like, invariably, like, they're not that funny, right? But I think. I think what it is, is they're not funny in a way that. That I would refer to them as comedy, right? Like, people, I think, like, I think sometimes my books can be funny, but, like, they're not. They're not calm, right? Like, they're just. There's like, a funny banter, a funny turn of phrase. Like, there's a difference, right, between comedy and not. I do think. And this is also related to the fact that I have literally just, like, my next book is a book about death, right? Like, a father dies and a family comes together for one week after he dies. And part of what's in that book is a lot. I hope that book. There are moments of, like, very extreme levity because the depths of emotion that come with dealing with death, Right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Somehow do kind of unlock this level of humor that this, like, you're sort of unable to. It's like you laugh when you're uncomfortable. And there is something very uncomfortable about death. And so what I found is when reading these books, I found that the characters themselves were very funny. Like, and I think I'm not going to talk about the undertaking of Heart and Mercy, because we've talked about it a lot on the podcast, but I think that's a good example of a book that, like, really, like, tackles the pandemic, right? With, like, the zombies outside Heart is a zombie killer, and then Mercy runs an undertaking business, right? And she is an undertaker. And that is a funny book. The banter between them is very funny. And so I think, like, there is something going on here where I think anybody who has been through, like, the process of dealing with the death of a loved one understands, like, how fucking crazy Those, like, weeks and months after. Not months, those, like, really intense days and weeks after death can, like, be weirdly funny. And, like, all these books sort of did that for me in an interesting way. So again, like, because I think we're dealing with some of, like, the most base of human stuff, right? Like, right. Death makes us all uncomfortable, but we are surrounded by it. And we were all. No, let me clarify. We all experience. And we are all experience it at some point or another in our lives. But during the pandemic, we were all so close to it. Even if we didn't lose somebody who we really knew, there was that specter of it. Like, death felt close in a way. And so I think these books are really doing something interesting emotionally around, like, what is what actually is physically happening to us when we are that close to mortality? Like, does every book that I read for this episode work? No, I'm not going to talk about every book I read for this episode. I'm going to talk about however many I talk about. And there are many more, is what I'm saying.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think my subset is a lot smaller. I tried to cast a, Like, a wider net and, like, see if I could find more. And I think in some ways it was just really tricky because there are so many. Like I said, ghosts are like. No, there are ghosts in romance. There always have been. Right. Like, I can think of ghost books back to, you know, whenever. So it was trying to really then, like, sort through ones that had a very specific plot. And so what I found myself doing was really, like, just, like, focusing on the ones that essentially, like, well, if they were traditionally published, that came out in the past, essentially 18 months, and if they were indie published, then I was really just trying. I was like, actually just, like, kind of read and tried a lot of samples and then, like, rejected some right where it sounded good, but then it ended up just being, you know, kind of not what I was looking for. Although I will let you know, Sarah, one of the things I did discover is there are a huge, more than you would think number of books where the heroine is a ghost and she essentially, like, falls in with, like, a bunch of other ghosts and they have, like, ghost orgies.

[Sarah McLean]

And I was, like, fascinating.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Like, yeah. And I was like, oh, okay.

[Sarah McLean]

Weird, but okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, sure. Right. In my brain was calling these the ghostly banging books.

[Sarah McLean]

Ghost orgy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, but so I think I probably have less books to talk about, and that's okay. But I did not think any of them were particularly funny. But I almost never think romance is funny. So, like, that comedy question, maybe I'm just, like, the wrong person to gauge that. I think for me, the interesting vector of discussion is the books I found most effective were the ones where the characters, in order to, like, help the ghosts move on, had to reckon with the way that they themselves shared qualities that the ghosts had. Right. So it's like, it was almost to me, like, I found it. And I guess I can say more about it, like, as I talk about the books. But, like, the ones where it was like, they. It was almost like they were, like, admitting something about, like, who they were in order to, like, help the ghost move on. It was, like, about seeing something of their own mortality in themselves by letting this ghost go. Yeah, Right. So I found that in. And that it wasn't always that they were like helping a ghost. That was like someone they knew personally.

[Sarah McLean]

Often it was not right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But there still was. To me, it's like the strongest ones were the ones where there was like some sort of like, connection. Like, I see myself in the way that this ghost is. And I think that's again, like. I think that's about feelings. Yeah, of course. The feelings of the living. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

And I think. And again, underscoring that sort of. I am as. I am not that far away from this. Like, this is close and it is. It is not what's interesting. And I don't know if you feel this way about your reads, but, like, at no point in mine was there a sense of threat. Like, death was not scary. Is not scary to these characters. Right. It is not a threat. And I think that's the other thing. Like, there is a sense of real power in characters who work in death. Like in these books. There's no. It's sort of.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It.

[Sarah McLean]

It almost. I hadn't thought about this until this exact moment, but it's almost. Almost like in a paranormal. When somebody's immortal. Like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

There's sort of like no fear because they are there all the time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And I would say for my books, it was not that. I think that's maybe true. I'll have to think about it. But for me instead, it was more an acceptance that there is an afterlife and that ghosts exist.

[Sarah McLean]

There is something more.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Or like some of the characters know, one of the characters know and then the other one essentially has to learn that. But like, that, like what they are then like walking into or like realizing is that there is like a whole world of people in this town or whatever for whom the idea of like, ghosts and an afterlife is something that is a matter of fact rather than right. And I again, I think there's comfort probably to that. Like these. The people who are gone are still with us is the most comforting idea there is. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. I have a lot to say. I mean, I will have a lot to say as we move forward. So I will say one thing. I just want to name. So I already said, the undertaking of heart and Mercy. We've talked about it before and we have. We mutually love that book. And then I want to just name Ashley Poston's the Dead Romantics, which came out right around the same time and is set in a funeral home. The heroine, she's a ghostwriter for a romance novelist. She goes home for her father's death in a funeral and the family owns a funeral home. And then a ghost turns up at the door, and he is the dead. The ghost of her dead editor. And like, we've talked about the dead Romantics on the podcast before, it feels like that's a book a lot of people read and know about, so I'm not gonna dwell on it, but it existed. It came out right around the same time as Undertaking of Art and Mercy in 2022. All the other books I'm going to talk about came out after 2022. So in the last two years. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by M. Jacqueline Murray, author of out of Time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So, Sarah, life has a limit, but love doesn't. And in this book, we have Maddie Cole, who is 78. She has done a lot of things the wrong way, but by throwing out society's rulebook, she managed to have a lot of career highs. And now she is retired, she's gonna travel and, like, see the world and do all these things. She's in Bar harbor when she meets octogenarian Nate Jacobs, who, on the other hand, has always done things the right way. He's built a successful legal practice, followed all the rules, and is now running a type ship over at the Hope Point Lighthouse. Now, here is the cool thing about this series. Maddie and Nate meet each other, but at different times in their lives. So it's soulmates, but like in a multiverse. So essentially really cool. I know. I am obsessed with this idea. So in this book, right, they meet when they are retired and near the end of their lives. But in the next book called Next Time, they're instead gonna meet midlife. So you get to see how Soulmates as an idea play for the same characters depending on when and how they meet each other. Yeah, I love it.

[Sarah McLean]

Big swing. I'm for it. All right, well, if you are also for it, you can read out of Time in print or ebook. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to M. Jacqueline Murray for the cool idea and the ad. All right, I'm going to talk about Morbidly yours, which is pro, I think the first one that I noticed, like, I mean, post 2022 and when I was because for me, three is a trend. And I was like, all right, well, Megan Bannon did it and Ashley Poston did it. And now there's Ivy the third Ivy Fairbanks has done more belief. Yours, morbidly yours was a KU book that Sort of took off. Lark is our heroine. She is a. An American widow. And in sort of a fit of real grief after the death of her husband, she decides she's gonna just, like, pack up her and move to a small town in Ireland. And she moves into an apartment that is across the street from a mortuary. And she gets an accidental package right on page one of body bags. And she's like, huh, this feels like it's not for me. And then she meets the man next door who is Callum, who runs Ivy Fairbanks, calls it a death dynasty. Like, basically, it's a family business. I mean, this is the other thing. This is. These are sort of the most classic family businesses in a lot of ways. Like funeral parlors are family businesses. Like, that's part of the thing, in large part, because, like, this is not a business that you feel necessarily comfortable with if you didn't grow up in it. Right, right. So this is an inheritance book. Callum has to marry before he turns 35 in order to inherit the funeral home. And it's this, like, actually quite charming story where she is a, you know, Lark is a widow, and she doesn't. She has sworn off love. Like, she is not prepared to love again. But she is, like, very sunshiny compared to his grumpy funeral. He is a classic kind of lurchy style funeral director. And she has this kind of sense with him that she's like, we can get you married. And so they take on what's called, what they call the dating project. And she, you know, ends up, like, trying to hook him up with everybody in town. And of course that doesn't work because it's a romance novel and they fall in love and there's this really powerful moment in it where they, like, he has to go. He, like, gets to tell they're like, together, and it's very sort of intense. And he has to go. He gets a telephone call in the middle of the night that he has to, like, go pick up a body somewhere. And she says, like, well, she kind of makes this joke, a joke that, like, any of us would make, which is like, why, why do you have to rush? Like, it's not like it's going anywhere, right? And he says, well, death doesn't keep polite hours. And, like, there's this great moment there where, like, she has a kind of moment of realization that, like, this job that she thought, she thinks, like, is isolating him from the world. Like, that he has, because he, like, can't. He doesn't want to, like, be alive. And Live out in the World is actually like, this very important work. And it's really interesting because all of the books that I read for this episode really speak about, like, this kind of work as being like, some of the most important work in the world. And it was fascinating, Jen, because it felt like. Like, it felt like romance again. Like sort of finding a place to do a really interesting kind of work.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And a kind of work that I don't think we've done before.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The way that we, like, honor the dead, right.

[Sarah McLean]

And like, like move them on and like strangers, right. Like, we rely on this, like, world of strangers to, like, treat our loved ones deaths with care and consideration. And it is really interesting because some of the other books, as we move forward, most of the books that we talk, that I'm talking about actually really, like, come to sometimes, like, really overtly in the text as plot. This kind of like, death care as a term quote.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Death care. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

And it's. It's just interesting. It's like, like these books are doing a thing. There's. They have a clear point of view, which is welcome.

[Jennifer Prokop]

1.2 million Americans died. And that's like the sort of official numbers. Right? And so when we think about. About that work, about those people and what happened to them. Right. And. And we, very early in the pandemic did an episode about, like, healthcare workers. Yeah, right.

[Sarah McLean]

People on the front lines. And we didn't. And I will say, like, death care workers did not. They were not people who we. Who anybody was like, pointing to as, like, they're the ones doing this work.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Because I think at least, you know, like, this is a dumb thing to say is like, I guess I assumed, like, well, they. They know this already. Like, they're not surprised by this work. Right. But I am sure that they were, and I'm sure that it was different. And you know, when you think about people who, you know, couldn't be with someone in the hospital when they were. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's, like, really hard to revisit that. And so the idea that we were able to turn that work over to people who took it seriously and who felt profoundly like that it was almost like a calling.

[Sarah McLean]

Right. Yeah. Important work.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Important work. It doesn't surprise me.

[Sarah McLean]

Right. Yeah. I mean, I think now that you bring. When you. You bring it up, like we were both in cities. You know, I was in New York City when. When the pandemic started. And I mean, through the pandemic, and I can remember being really horrified by the articles where, like, it was like noble morgues, like, just like outside of hospitals. Like big 18 wheelers.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And thinking to myself, like, that's not how it should be. It should be more respectful in some way. And like. But this is so. I think. Yeah, I think, like, this is the fantasy of these books is like. It is, right? It's okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. That someone on the other end was there to care for people that we couldn't care for. Okay. So I think my. I don't know if this is gonna make sense. Cause I feel like we're just gonna be like, kind of bouncing back and forth. But my books ended up kind of like sectioning off into like a very specific kind of like I kind of did it by plot. Right. And so the biggest group were like, humans helping ghosts move on. But then there were like a couple where I had like, like a one off where it was different. And in the book Pumpkin Spice and Poltergeist by Ali Mumford and Elle Morrison, instead, what it had, what I found was a ghost helping a human move on. And so in this book, Jordan is a witch. She's one of the heroines. And what she does is she on the conjures essentially, like. Or like, you know, kind of has like a seance or something to talk to her ex girlfriend who died a year earlier. And basically they had broken up. And then pretty quickly after Jordan. Lou is the name of the girlfriend. Lou died. And so Jordan is like, kind of sad and. And you know, like, it does this spell because she just wants to, like, have a chance to say goodbye to Lou. And it's pretty funny. Lou. Lou, like, returns, right? And it's kind of like. And, you know, can't remember anything about how she was killed, really. And so these are details Jordan has, but Lou doesn't. And Lou says. And it was funny. Like, I guess I did think it was funny because I wrote this down. This is the gayest thing we've ever done, by the way she said, summoning me from the afterlife to have one more long talk about our feelings. And in fact, Jordan has been really stuck, right? And I think the part of it that really struck me was her feeling that. And it turns out that Lou's death, in fact, was like a mystery, right? So, like, Lou was kind of on a road that would have headed towards like, I can't remember if it was Jordan's work or home or whatever. And so I think Jordan was kind of like, I was hoping that you would have answers about why you were where you were. It was like a car accident or something. And Lou was like, yeah, I don't really remember. I don't remember what happened to me. And so, of course, at that moment, you know that, like, this is gonna be a mystery that gets solved. But what happens is it turns out that Jordan, when she cast the spell to summon Lou, did it incorrectly. And so Lou cannot go back.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, no.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Lou is stuck. And so, like, the terms of the, like, whatever spell she used leads Lou to believe that the only way she's gonna get out of there is by essentially playing ghostly matchmaker to Jordan. Like, I'm gonna help you move on. And you will. You will be able to get over me and the grief you feel for me and this mystery about why I died so suddenly and you didn't see it coming. And I'm gonna find you this, like, a new woman. And so, you know, there's, like, a small town, and conveniently, Harlow has just moved into town. She has taken a job with her sister to work at her sister's cafe. And, you know, Harlow's in, like, a bit of a pickle. Like, she's. When we first meet her, she's almost seems, like, real desperate. Like, she's, like, washing up a little bit on her sister's doorstep. And so Lou essentially plays ghostly matchmaker to these two.

[Sarah McLean]

Perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But I found the whole. And, you know, and it's cute. Like, it's a cute, like, kind of witchy rom com mostly. But I did find myself really thinking a lot about that whole beginning. Right. Like, and I think what it really represented to me is how, like, how desperately we just want to see the people that have moved on one more time. Right. And say, like, almost like, Jordan, like, you know, were you thinking about me, too? Right. What's it like for you? And that wish, that, like, idealized wish of being able to, like, talk to someone who's in the afterlife in here. Not just like that they're okay, but that you're gonna be okay, too. Yeah. Pumpkin Spice and Poltergeist.

[Sarah McLean]

All right. I do have one that has a ghost in it, so I'm gonna do that one next. Okay. So I want to talk about Rules for Ghosting, which is a debut by Shelly J. Shore. And I was sort of, like, predisposed to, like, this book from the jump. Like, it's set in Rhode island, in Providence, where I grew up. It's also a book about a funeral home. And so Ezra, who is a trans man, is the middle child. I think middle Child of a family, a Jewish family that owns a funeral home. Like, a Jewish funeral home. And this book kind of begins. It's really interesting. It begins with a flashback to Ezra's childhood when he and his. So his grandfather owned this funeral home, and he, you know, grew up inside this funeral home. His mother and father both worked there. And his grandfather dies. And the morning that his grandfather dies, like, Ezra gets up and he, like, sees his grandfather, and they have a whole conversation. And then, like, his mother walks into the room, and his grandfather disappears. And it's. And his grandfather has died. And it's clear to the reader immediately that, like, Ezra has, like, some kind of special ability, right? So it comes to pass. Like. So then, you know, the books. The book begins, and we're in this kind of world where Ezra is, like. He's a doula, and he's, like, around life all the time, and he has this, like, rich group of friends, and his family lives on the other side of town. And you get this kind of vibe from him that, like, the funeral parlor is fine, but, like, that sort of death business is not for him. Like, he's in the business of life, right? He's a doula. So, you know, he meets. He meets this guy Jonathan, and they have, like. They have a little thing, and then he heads over. It's Passover. He goes to his family's Passover Seder with his siblings and his family and the rabbi who. From the. From the temple that they go to, and her husband, and they have this kind of chaotic family Seder. And the kids play this very funny drinking game where, like, anytime there's, like, a discussion of, like, the true meaning of the text, like, they drink. Or like, anytime anybody gets asked when they're gonna get married, they drink. Like, so. Because these are all adult kids who just, like, you know, we've all been adult kids at a family dinner at, like, a holiday where, like, it's literally the same thing over and over and over again. And so you have to do something to make fun, to have fun. Jonathan is there. And it turns out that Jonathan has been his kind of his parents. He volunteers in the funeral work there. And so as part of, you know, his. I assume it's like a mitzvah of some kind. And so he's like. Ezra, of course, is, like, shocked to see Jonathan there. There's, like, whole thing. And turns out Jonathan's partner died, and his parents, like, did the funeral. Now at this Seder, chaos ensues. And it comes out at the seder that his mother and the rabbi, Rabbi Judith, are having an affair.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, boy.

[Sarah McLean]

And so they both are interested in leaving their husbands. They announce this at the seder like it's a shock to everyone, including the husband. It's messy, and then, like, it just kind of unravels from there. There's. So the mother, then is, like, she leaves. And, like, all her work at the. At the. In the funeral home has to be done. And so Jonathan jumps in, and Ezra's asked to stay. And so he decides, like, okay, he's gonna take a month and work at the funeral at the family funeral home. And it's this. It's such a. It's a truly, truly fun book, as you can probably tell from this. Like, there's so much going on. Like, a huge cast of characters. The family is all, like, chaotic. There's there and there is this. There is a ghost who kind of is constantly around. And in Ezra's experience, he has only ever really, like, see, like. Like, his theory is that ghosts are connected to the place that they die, right? But he sees this ghost kind of all over town. And it turns out that the ghost he is seeing is Jonathan's husband. Dead husband. Oh. And so, like, that whole piece is complicated. The romance with him and Jonathan is complicated by this fact that, like, Ben is there. And Ezra's never been able to talk to ghost, but he can talk to Ben. And so, like, there's this really interesting kind of. Again, what you were saying, this, like, sense of, like, having to figure out, negotiate why a ghost is still here, why it hasn't moved on, like, that kind of thing. And then this, like, layered. I think it's so brilliant that Shelly J. Shore made Ezra a doula.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. It's a really interesting.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, there is a moment in the book where there is a Jewish tradition, I think. I don't. I apologize to everybody if I mispronounce this, but it's called tahara, I think. And it's like, the cleansing of the body. And so. And it's very, you know, it's a ritual that is, you know, really important. And Jonathan comes to Ezra and basically says, like, you need four men to cleanse. Like, we have a male body, and, like, we need four men to cleanse it, and we only have three. Can you come help? And he's like, sure. So they go and they're sort of. They have this, like, moment. And it's so impactful for him because it's not like he didn't know this is. This was the work. Like, he's. He grew up in this place, but, like, his work is life. And, like, what is this? Like, how does he reconcile that calling with this? And it's just a really beautiful, big, ambitious book. Like, in a way that, again, like, a debut that I wish more people had found this year, I think. And I hope everybody, you know, will. Will go forward with this because I think it's like this. Really? Yeah, it's ambitious. There's so much I kept thinking, like, oh, my gosh, they're.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Here's another layer. Shelly J.

[Sarah McLean]

Shore is. Is really, like, holding all of these threads very well. Yeah, it was. It was great. I mean, it was great. And then also, I mean, I haven't even talked about, like, all of Ezra's friends who are all, like, delightful, you know, like, you know, there. There are all these characters. It really felt like. And this is the other thing I wanted to say in general is like, like, these books really feel community laden.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, again, I agree with that. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Because of the situation. Like, when someone dies, people come out, they crawl out of every corner, like they're just everywhere. And it feels that way in these books, like, they're such a rich community, which, again, like, during the pandemic, was not accessible to us anyway. So that is Rules for ghosting by Shelley J. Shore.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Robin Peterman, author of Fashionably Dead.

[Sarah McLean]

So Astrid has a problem, and she's, you know, we are all flawed in one way or another. And Astrid smokes, which is something we don't see a lot in romance anymore. And Astrid seems to know we don't see a lot in romance anymore because. Because she is trying to quit. But, like, many of us is having a real difficult time learning how to quit and so. Or getting to quit. So she takes herself to a hypnotist and she says, I need to not be a smoker anymore. And the hypnosis says, cool, cool, no problem. And then Astrid wakes up in her bed with no memory of what happened after that. What she does know is that she no longer is a smoker, but she is now a vampire. And that is unsettling and a surprise because she did not. No vampires exist.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Are there any benefits to this change there?

[Sarah McLean]

Listen. She has a banging hot bod. She's super strong. She has a guardian angel who is, like, potty mouthed and maybe more trouble than they're worth, but who can tell? And she's met a vampire prince named Ethan who is very happy to help her out with that vampire libido, which is off the charts now that she is newly turned. So all of this seems, like, fine at the start, but, like, Astrid would really prefer not to stay a vampire if that's a possibility. Except Ithan has some bad news for her, which is she actually isn't just a vampire, she's actually the chosen vampire, and it's going to be on her to save an entire race of vampire people.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Amazing.

[Sarah McLean]

This is very funny.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think this hilarious Halloween treat is a paranormal romantic comedy, an urban fantasy, and part the first book in a long series called the Hot Damned Series. This is the first of 18 books, so you can dive right in and stick around and, like, get all this hilarious goodness. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Robin Peterman for sponsoring this week's episode. Like, the books I'm going to end up talking about, right, are the ones where it's like, humans help, ghost moves on. But here is one that's like, a bit of a hybrid because. And I'm gonna talk about. It's A Ghost in Shining Armor by Therese Behari. And this is the second book, and you talked about the first book where the woman is a writer who can, like, write her dreams. Like, she wakes up in her. Right? And in this book, this is her twin sister's book. And the deal, and this is in A Ghost in Shining Armor, it's Gemma. And Gemma essentially did not know her entire life she had a twin sister. So this book has also dealing with adoption and, like, foster care and things like that. So it's set in Cape Town, and essentially the book opens with, like, kind of Gemma disclosing and talking about her own life, like, kind of paranormal ability, which is she has the ability as soon as she turned 18, she developed or, like, could see ghosts all of a sudden. And so essentially her high school history teacher just, like, shows up in her room one night and is like. She's like, what are you doing here, Mr. So and so, right? And it turns out that in this kind of world, the world building of this book, that ghosts essentially can be assigned tasks with humans in order to help them, like, kind of, you know, and then that helps them, like, like, go to their afterlife faster or whatever. And in this case, like, her high school teacher had just died, and he essentially, like, takes on this job because he knows her of, like, essentially telling her, like, she has this special ability where she's gonna be a Person who can see ghosts, and it's gonna be her job to help them move on. Right? But it's like, essentially she's like, this is her, you know, now that she's 18, this is going to be something she can do. And so then fast forward, whatever, like, you know, 10 years. She's in her 20s and she's just found out she has this twin sister. And she is. Doesn't understand why she was adopted, but her sister was not. She doesn't know how to talk to her parents or her family about this, Right? So she is really, like, kind of struggling. And she does. And at this point, she has not even, like, met her sister yet. She's just, like, become aware of her. So she's like, really in crisis. Like an emotional big maelstrom at the beginning of this book. And what happens is she sees this hot guy at a bar, his name's Levi, and she, like, approaches him, and on, like, a dare from her friends, like, it's kind of like they're out drinking. It's like a bachelorette party or something. She kisses him and he kisses her back, and it's like this really hot kiss. And then it turns out, like later that night, he, like, kind of poofs into her room and she's like. And she's like, wait, you're a ghost? What in the hell is wrong with you? I kissed you in front of everybody. I made you real. And he was like, wait, excuse me. So it turns out in the world building of this book, if she interacts with the ghosts in front of other people, she essentially, like, makes them corporeal. And so she has done this to him, but in order. And this is like some, I think, some clever world building on Theresa's part in order to make it so that he's not, like, running around Cape Town being seen by people he knows. He is essentially from, like, an almost like an alternate universe. Like, this is like, there's like a multiverse effect, so he can kind of be in her universe. And what, What? And what he. What she is, like, really shocked to find out is that he has been assigned to her, essentially, to help her deal with, like, all of her feelings about her sister. And if he can do this, then he actually is going to get a chance to, like, go back to his other life. Right? So, like, the stakes are super high for them because if he helps her, he can have his old life back, but of course he's gonna fall in love with her. Right?

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think the other. So then what ends up happening. And it's cute. It's. This is a good reason for fake dating, essentially, is all of her friends are like, who's this hot guy you're with? And he. Like, she basically has to pretend, you know, that, like, they're dating because he has no home, right?

[Sarah McLean]

There's nothing like, he. Where's he gonna go? He has to live with her. That's so, you know, he, like a.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Fairy godmother type character who always appears to him in a different form because, like, they're almost like, you know, kind of jumping themselves through, like, this kind of multiverse. And I think, again, the thing that I found myself really thinking about here in this book was this idea that, like, grief is again, like. Like, grief goes both ways, right? Like, so when you are going through something yourself, how much we wish for, like, the wisdom of somebody who could, like, see how it was all going to turn out or. Right. And so I found myself thinking, like, a lot of the. The whole idea, too, of, like, her being, like, I'm the person who helps ghosts, and now one is helping me. That's not how it's supposed to go. I thought was really, like, a clever twist. Because what it again, I found myself thinking like, you know, the people who were like, I thought I knew what death was, but here I have been surprised, right? It's more than I thought. It's different than I thought. There's new layers to it that I can uncover or discover. And that, like, this whole idea of, you know, how. I don't know, like, just really powerful. It felt like it's like a cute. Again, it's like a cute story, right? Like, Therese is writes a really, like, warm, like, charming. Right. Like, kind of fun, you know, kind of vibe in her books. Like, and yet I found myself really feeling like, again, she was tackling lots of really heavy ideas. I mean, and essentially she was kind of like, what do you mean, you're here to help me? And he is like, well, aren't you? Don't you want to know about your sister and why your parents didn't tell you? You wanted a sister your entire life. You wanted a sibling, and they kept that from you, Right? Like, so there's this conversation where he is able to say, like, there's things you didn't know and you wish you knew, and it's my job to help you with that. And I felt like that to me, really spoke to again, like that, like, the desperate wishing that we just, I don't know, wanting our lives to Be different and then like knowing instead, like, this has come to an end. Can I go back to it? Right? I mean, can I go back to it? So I thought it was. I thought it was great. So that's a ghost in shining armor.

[Sarah McLean]

I want to talk about Undertaking Love by Megan Montgomery, which is the. In the Last Responders series, which you talked about. I think book one in this series. At some point, though right now it's about an emergency, like an er. I can't remember why. I think I can't remember. All right, whatever. You talked about book one in this series at some point. But this is book two in the series. You don't have to read them. You know, we don't have to read them in order. Anyway. Bethany, our heroine was a very successful model and. But always had it reminds me of. Did you know that. That Mick Jagger was like a brilliant economist? Like he went to the London School of Economics.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I did not know that.

[Sarah McLean]

And like Rockstar was like, really his plan B. This is that kind of thing. Bethany is a like, like extremely, extremely successful model, has a ton of money and she decides that she is going to like walk away from it and because she has a dream and that dream is to be a mortician. So her dream job is that. So she goes and she like invests in a failing funeral home in kind of Victorian era, like old school house. And she has this like completely revolutionary way of considering how to like how to just reinvigorate the mortuary business. It's like extremely death positive. Funerals should be eco friendly, burials should be eco friendly. Like it's. This is all like real stuff that's happening in the like death business world in real life. And Megan Montgomery sort of packs it all in here and pits her against a man named George Smyth, which honestly, like, could there be more of like a stuck in the olden ways funeral director name? And he is like, absolutely. He is very happy to take Bethany's money and he is suffering her just existence in his life. But he does not want to like, try anything new, do anything new. Like, death is the same as it ever was. And you know, we shouldn't have to change it. Of course. She's like, look, we should have to change it because you were losing money. This was a failing business until I gave you an injection of capital and now we have to do it my way. So they do this kind of. They. They have this very like kind of grumpy, sunshiny dance. This one is definitely for grumpy sunshine friends Sunshine, grumpy sunshine people. And they end up on like a classic contemporary romance journey. They have to. They are business partners who are at each other's throats and they have to travel to New Orleans for a death conference. Like, basically like something. And in that death, at that death conference, it comes out that like, Bethany is like, like a celebrity in the like mortuary world. She has. Because she's like a former model who now does this, right? She has a Twitter handle that is at Bethany the mortician, which is adorable. And everybody thinks she's like fabulous. And of course this makes George more and more and more and more insane. Fell like, like she has like, she's just like horned her way into his world and is like slowly ruining everything while they're in New Orleans. They like it. It becomes more and more clear that these two are just like kind of obsessed with each other. And Bethany makes a pass at him and it's basically like, I want to you like, like straight up. And he. Jen, just like, basically he dies in that moment. He's like, I. I can't. Like, he can't speak. He goes like, he just. McCreeve brain just like full static through his whole brain. He cannot deal with it. And it becomes clear that like he's. He's divorced, he had a wife. And like, it. It's clear that like he has really been burned by this. And what he realized like in the next moment she's. She like comes, she. She makes a pass at him. He fully loses it. And then like he can't speak and she like is embarrassed. Like he literally is just like staring at her and she like takes off, thank God to like save her face. And he's like, like, I had this wife and I was a terrible husband. Like, she was a terrible wife, but I was a really bad husband. And I don't deserve. Here's where Sarah came online. I don't deserve this like, woman who is like bright and light and full of life in a way that like my life never has been. And the way that Meghan Montgomery sort of like juxtaposes the like sexy life affirming romance piece because that's a huge piece of this. Like, sex makes you feel alive, love makes you feel alive. The feelings make you feel like everything is like heightened and bright and beautiful. And the way she does that is really amazing. And. And it starts. I meant to say this at the beginning, but you know, whatever. We'll come back around the very first scene of this book. So like I said all of these books have at some point or another some sort of like death care scene, like where they're engaging with the body. And this book begins in like a morgue van. And we are in Bethany's POV and there's like a dead body there and she's like stressing about it and she can like feel herself just like sweating and like feeling uncomfortable. And she looks up and George is across from her. There's a dead body between them in the van. And she looks across this body, like shrouded body at him. And she's like. It's like the van is like closed up and like doesn't smell nice. And she's like. And all she could, like, she was. She's pissed off because he smells like sandalwood and citrus. And she can like, even in this, he's like, perfect romance is un Sarah not a bead of sweat. Like, no, he's so cool and he smells like sandalwood and citrus even in that van. And I was like, this is perfect. This is exactly what I want from a morgue romance. Like, I want them to just be like hot for each other. The sex is great in this book. It's incredibly like sexy. And you just feel like these two are gonna. They are, they are just burning. They are, they. They are headed for something and it is either really great or like world ending. And it's really a fun book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's great. I also. These got re jacketed and they are.

[Sarah McLean]

They're so cool.

[Jennifer Prokop]

They look like old like pulp novels. And they are terrific, terrific covers.

[Sarah McLean]

Honestly, these covers are so great and I wish they would do this to like more romances. They are so cool. So that is Megan Montgomery's undertaking. Love.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Katherine Grant, host of the Historical Romance Sampler podcast.

[Sarah McLean]

This is such a cool idea, especially at a time when we talk so much about discoverability being difficult and people wanting more historical writers and historical romance. So what Catherine has done is she's put together a podcast where she invites every week a historical romance author to come on the podcast and read a 10 minute excerpt of their current book. And then after that they talk about craft and research and inspiration and they just sort of hang out and talk about historicals. So this is perfect if you're interested into any kind of historical. She covers medievals and regencies and American set and historicals that sort of defy labels. And you'll definitely head over and you'll find a new book to obsess over on the Historical Romance Sampler podcast to give you a sense. Past guests have included Erica Ridley and Liana de la Rosa and Celeste Barclay and Lisa Rain, Tabitha Waite. Tons of names that you'll recognize, people who you'll hear who you recognize from our podcast, like Isabella Kamal, who we talk about on this week's episode. So you can head over to like and subscribe there. And at the end of today's podcast, you'll hear a three minute sample of the Historical Romance Sampler podcast so you can get a sense of what Katherine and others are doing over there.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So if you click on the chapter title right now, you'll be taken to a link tree which will tell you about places where you can check out the podcast. It is also available on YouTube, which I think think is really fun. So Apple podcasts, Spotify, all that stuff. So thank you to Katherine Grant and the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast for sponsoring this week's episode. All right, so the last ones I have are these. We're humans and our job is to move, move ghosts that we encounter along their journey. And I wasn't, I first saw it in or like, really, you know, paid attention to it in a book called Inheritance by Nora Roberts. And this is the first book of the lost bride trilogy. These came out? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

New one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This came out in November of 2023. And the second book is called the Mirror. And that one came out probably earlier this year. And like, if you've read Nora's kind of paranormals lately, there's always like three books. And so this is like the same characters kind of moving through the three books. There is a romance plot. It's like if you've read kind of newer Nora Roberts, there's always a romance plot, but it's not like kind of the main plot. So in this case, and I believe I have talked about this book, but I don't think I talked about it in this way. A woman inherits a home in Maine that she didn't know. Her name's Sonia. And she essentially like walks in on her boyfriend with another woman. And he, they work together at this like, architecture firm, graphic design, something like that. And he, you know, she ends up having to like, leave this job because he just like forces her out. I think it's like something I think Nora Roberts does really well is like, women are wronged over and over and over again by like the same man. And so then like one night, like, essentially she gets this like, knock on her apartment door. She's just finally decided to, like, start her own firm and kind of get herself back up and running. And this lawyer essentially is like, you have inherited this mansion and, you know, on the coast in Maine. And you have to, of course, romance reasons, right, Live there for a couple years in order to really inherit it. And she's like, what do you mean? Like, I don't have any family. And it turns out that her father, who was adopted when he was a newborn, had a twin brother that he never knew about. And it's that man who died and left this to her, like, kind of knew that, like, had figured out, like, kind of knew the family history. Her father was unaware of it, but her uncle knew. So she shows up at this house and what she discovers is that there are not one, but I think, think seven ghosts who live there. And six of them essentially were killed by the other one, right? And so what happens is like, the one is like this evil witch ghost who essentially has haunted this house and this mansion for, you know, a decade or something. Not a decade, like a century, sorry, way longer than a decade. And so she, the. That first witch, like, cursed the house. And the, the. The curse of the lost brides is that every generation the first woman to marry is going to die if she marries inside the house. And so at some point, like, there's an aunt who sort of figures out what the curse is and like, gets married somewhere else so she survives. And like, so there's like all this really interesting stuff happening in the family that like, Sonia, of course, is like, like, what the hell? These are like, this is my family now and I'm related to people in this town and I didn't know anything about them, right? So it's like, I got that real fish out of water vibe. But it is also really clear to her that, like, she is going to suffer the same fate essentially unless she kind of cleans house, gets rid of this evil ghost. So it's like a really powerful ghost story, but it's also like, like, clear that like, this is her job. And it turns out that she has a cousin who kind of is like, oh, I think I know what's going on here. And she's like learning the history. And like, the ghosts are like, essentially the good ghosts are showing her like, kind of the story of her family and the story of everything that is like, in the past. And then of course, the evil ghost just. Or like the, you know, of this witch who cursed everything is trying to prevent her from getting the information that she needs. So there's like, you know, haunted mirrors and paintings and. You know what I mean? And, like, listen, this is when you're like, nobody has. Nora Roberts has a boundless imagination. Right. Is, like, kind of how I feel, like, just, like, really able to, like, you know, kind of sell the story. So then in the second book, which is called the Mirror, essentially, there's, like, you know, kind of more information about, like, the ghost ghosts and whatever and how they're gonna do it. And of course, it's probably not gonna be until the third book that, like, they finally vanquish this, like, evil witch or whatever and, like, sort of save all these other ghosts. The thing that I find that I found myself thinking about in terms of, like, the pandemic, like, right. Is there's all of these ways in which the good ghosts, like, communicate with Sonia about how happy they are that she is there. So there is, like, one woman who was, like, actually a maid who not all of the, like, you know, who, like, essentially, like, will clean the kitchen up for her. There's another one who has figured out that, like, she can essentially communicate with Sonia using song titles from her, like, Spotify account. So it's like, she'll play a song, and, like, that is, like, no.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, that's unmatched.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Terrific. Other thing, too, is it's all about, like, I don't know, like, generational loss, I think, right? Like, really exploring the idea. And I think I. I think a lot about. When we hear stories in the pandemic about, like, people who lost multiple people in the family, right? Like, who is preserving those stories? How do we uncover those stories when they are, you know, those people are gone? How do we remember them? Why is it that, like, the items that were owned by the people that have moved on or have such power over us, Right? Like, there's a haunted mirror that she and her cousin can essentially, like, travel through, you know, and just, like, the. The weight of being inside. I mean, I kept thinking, too, about, like, the whole idea of, like, she's not really trapped in the house, obviously, but this house is where it all takes place. And it's not claustrophobic at all, but, like, the power of, like, you're just inside the house, and all the weight of all of the memories that have been contained in that house that are kind of fighting for dominance. Like, I thought that was, like, a really powerful subtext to the entire series that I've read so far. And I really, you know, I'm still. I don't read every Nora book, but I have been really glad I've read these two and I really cannot wait for the third one, which I assume comes out next year. So that's Inheritance was the first one and the Mirror is the second one.

[Sarah McLean]

I want to talk about the Temple of Persephone, which is a historical by Isabel Kamal. It's a debut and it's a Hades and Persephone retelling. And I know lots and lots of people love that. And so here's the deal. Persephone is, is on the shelf. It's Regency. So she's in her late 20s and she is, she sneaks into, she as she understands there is like an estate high on the hill and there is like a magnificent library in that estate. And so she sneaks into the estate and she. To access, she sneaks into the house to access the library essentially. While she's up on that, on the ladder in the library, she falls, she rips her dress. And would you believe Jen, right at that exact moment in comes like the biggest gossip in England.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would never have believed it. Who could have guessed?

[Sarah McLean]

Listen, there is only one thing to do and that is Persephone needs to marriage of convenience. The lord who lives in this house, who is Aiden, who is referred to by all of London as Lord of the Dead because he runs a funeral home, a Regency era funeral furnisher. That's what he's called in the Regency. I didn't know that term. And basically what ends up happening is like he's like, well she's pretty hot, so okay, we'll do this. But he's like up in this castle, like it's not a castle, it's a manor house. But like he keeps, keeps to himself and he's kind of a scandal in his own right because this is what he does. Like people don't want to get. This is a time when like, like he's bad luck, like being around. I remember when I was growing up, my father used to like, he came with this sort of like very old school Catholic, Italian, like sense of like being around like funeral directors was. Being around funeral directors was bad luck. Like that was it. And like this is what's in this, like this sort of sense that this man, Lord of the dead is like not for all markets. Like he's not for the Regency or for the aristocracy. So. But she's sort of like, okay, well I'm kind of into him and he's like, I'm kind of into her. And they have this like very sexy, intense marriage where like all Of a sudden, they're just, like, deeply, deeply into each other. The sex in this book is very, very hot. There is Face sitting in this book, which was a surprise to me. And I was like, oh, hello. It's happening. It's happening. And this is. But really, this is a book about, like, again, a man who. Who in his work, part of the reason why they call him Lord of the Dead is because he does a fair amount of, like, secret work where basically, like, if. If a family or if a child dies and the child was born out of wedlock tradition, like, there is a problem with that because the. They technically can't be buried in a. Oh, sure, they haven't been. They can't be buried in a.

[Jennifer Prokop]

In a Christian cemetery or whatever.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, a Christian cemetery. Thank you. And more importantly, they can't be buried. So, like, if they haven't been baptized, they can't be buried in a Christian cemetery. And more importantly, they can't be buried in a family plot. Right? So he does this really interesting work where, like, if. If. Where, like, he will take care of either burying them respectfully in a place, like a private place where the family can, like, visit, or he will secretly bury these children, like, where they deserve to be, right? And so he's, like, breaking a fair number of laws and rules, and he is, like, really taking money for a kind of burial that is scandalous in such a way that, like, it makes him somewhat. Not to us villainous, but, like, to the rest of, like, to society. He's really an outcast, right? Despite the fact that all these motherfuckers, like, these rich men, like, need him, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Always.

[Sarah McLean]

There's Isabel Kamal is doing a really interesting thing here with gender. Like, when she sort of does the reveal on, like, what he actually does and, like, the work that he actually does. She talks about how, like, when women come to him, they come to him for, like, us. Of, like, final resting place that will protect their children. And when men come to him often, it's like, please just help us, like, get rid of this problem. And it's. I mean, like, there's some really interesting discussion, like, classic historical right in here where, like, there's, like, some really just. There's a real discussion of patriarchy and, like, what patriarchy does in these moments and how it really disrespects women in these moments and, like, families in these moments. And it's just this very, like, she ties it all up in this really, like, lovely bow at the end. It also sorts itself out. He gets to be the Lord of the dead, like out in the world and like standing in the sunlight. And again, I think what this book. Really, what struck me about this book was like, here are. Here is the story of like, what it is the death work that comes around people who are secret, like forgotten people who are alone, people who don't have community. And at the same time, like, he doesn't have. He really does not have community at the beginning of this book. Like, she becomes his whole world. He falls so hard for her. If you love a he falls first book, this is for you. And it's just sexy and emotional and it is not like a complex. Is not a complex plot, but it is a plot that like, really feels authentically.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I love that.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, again, because of. Of what we've all been through and like you said earlier, like, all those people who died alone.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, well. And I love that it's a historical I've never seen.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, like, how many historicals have I read? I've never seen?

[Jennifer Prokop]

There's grave robbers and historicals. There are not people. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

A lot of them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Not people carefully putting them there.

[Sarah McLean]

But we don't, like, this is the thing, it feels like we never see. You just so rarely see even a funeral on page. I mean, you're more likely to see funerals. But like, again, I feel like the. The books that I've read where you see funerals on page are post pandemic. Unless it's like something crazy, Jackie Collins style, like something crazy happens in at the funeral.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, so I'm going to Talk about Jen DeLuca's Haunted Ever after is the name of it. And this is like a. Again, very. I think this is like a. It has like a very similar plot in a lot of ways to the Nora Roberts book on the face of it, which is Cassie is our main character. She moves to Boneyard Key, Florida, and she buys essentially house that's been flipped. So it's about like moving into a new house and everybody in the. And it turns out that Boneyard Key, like, really, like, leans into its name. So it's like a little bit of a tourist trap kind of town. And everything's like Halloween all year long and skeletons and you can take like the cemetery tour and. Right. Like, so they really lean into the like, touristy vibe of having like a scary, you know, a scary haunted town. So she buys this house and everyone's like, oh, you have that house. And it turns out that everyone in town actually believes in ghosts. And the reason for that is because in. It's because there really are ghosts. And the ghosts that are there, or like, the way it started, the ghost started is that there was a hurricane. I don't know, like, again, like, 100 years ago or whatever. And there were people that were killed in the storm. And the people that then, like, stayed or lived could somehow, like, commune with the ghosts of the people who were killed. And so what happens then is, like, it almost seemed like it was like other ghosts then, like, sort of can, like, sense it's, like, energy. And so, like, are, like, attracted there. And Cassie's house is one of the most haunted houses in town. A flipper came in and flipped it and sold it. And so. And her love interest is this guy named Nick. He works at a coffee shop called, of course, like, Hallowed Grounds. And what happens is, like, Nick's like, oh, yeah, like, for generations, kids around here remember, like, you would go near that house and this ghost would come out and, like, scare you off. And everybody. It's like the ghost of Sarah Hawkins. And so Cassie, like, meets this ghost who's, like, kind of chill and, like, watches TV with her. You know what I mean? Like, and she's kind of like, I don't think this is a bad ghost. Like, I. I see that there really are ghosts. I don't think this is a bad one, right? And. But everyone in town's like, oh, no, she's terrible. She's worst ghost in town. Well, Nick comes into her house one night and then just, like, all of a sudden starts acting really aggressive. And it, like, we as the reader understand, like, oh, there's a second ghost, right? Like, we immediately, as readers are like, oh, there's another ghost. And it turns out that, like, Sarah herself has essentially been haunted by the ghost of her abusive husband. She's been trapped in her ghostly house with her ghostly husband for, you know, almost 100 years now or worse. And so Cassie feels like it is her job to essentially, like, move the mean ghost out so that Sarah, the ghost of Sarah, can decide, like, what she's gonna do. In some ways, I found this, like, a really interesting book because, like I said, it, like, really traffics in a lot of the, like, us, you know, I think this is where I started to, like, see the, like, the pattern coming together. I think the part that is different is that, like, Cassie and Nick never really engage with the idea that, like, the ghosts are in particular, are drawn to the two of them for something in their own. You know what I mean? In their own way of Being. And you know, Nick is like someone who has lived in the town his entire life and kind of has been bitter about a girlfriend who left and you know, didn't want him, you know, didn't want to, you know, he didn't want to leave the town. And she was really angry about that. And I think that there's a way in which this book, it's interesting to me that like, the evil husband kind of has like a real controlling, kind of terrible tendencies. But, you know, Nick as a good guy, like, never really engages with like, do I have anything in common with this ghost? But I think in terms of like the whole idea of like, we have to like, let. We have to help these ghosts, like, move on. And that like some ghosts or some memories are more malevolent than others. And we, we, you know, there's power in like the, the perception because it turns out that like all those school kids who thought Sarah Hawkins was so scary, like she was trying to protect them from the scary her, from the.

[Sarah McLean]

Ghost, from the bad ghost.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So that is, you know, and again, like a really like sweet like romance between Nick and Cassie. And then like this, you know, the intro and then like the anti romance almost between Sarah and her husband. And you know, I think Jen does a good job of showing that part of that is because it was like literally just like a different time, you know, so that was haunted ever after.

[Sarah McLean]

Okay, I want to talk about morning wood.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Amazing. I love you.

[Sarah McLean]

Morning with a you, Jen. Morning with a U. So we meet Whitney in the first chapter. Again, all of these books, with the exception all of the books were like, somebody is working at a funeral home when you first meet them happen. Like the first view of them is like enacting, interacting with the dead body. We see her putting makeup on a body for viewing and she's like, she is the fan again, family business, funeral home, just like all the others. And she. It is like falling apart. This funeral home, like, it needs a lot of work. And so they have hired Whitney's mother and the family has hired a very incredibly handsome construction guy, like, contractor to come and do repairs on the chapel in the funeral home. And so this is like a home repair romance where the, the home just happens.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think the whole idea of the like, home, right, like, is so powerful because again, we're all stuck inside. I think that's so clear. Right, right.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, and I, I think there's that. And I think also, like, don't forget the appeal of the funeral home is like, you send your loved One there and they are with who care for them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

They are not alone, right? Like, they are not alone all night long. They are never. They are never left. So Wyatt. So his name is Wyatt, he's super hot. He's like your classic like central casting romance novel content contractor, right? Like he comes in, he's ripped, perfect in every way, right? Very handsome. And. But what's really interesting is like very quickly it becomes clear that Wyatt is uncomfortable with this job. Like he is uncomfortable in the funeral home. He is uncomfortable around death. There is. And like, as Whitney describes it, she's like. And not in like the normal way people are uncomfortable around death.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Death.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, he's really flipped out about it. And it becomes clear that there was. When he was four years old, he was in a terrible car accident and his entire family died. And Wyatt survived. So he's like a lot. He. He was. He's alone, right? And when this is articulated to Whitney, it's articulated to her in this really interesting way where the person says a thing that we have all said at some point or another in relation to death, which is his family. Wyatt survived, but his family wasn't so lucky. And Whitney has a moment of like, lucky is an ironic way to describe the people who are left behind. And I got to that line and I highlighted it in my Kindle and I thought to myself, like, this, this book is going to be about it's. Or that she has that moment. Like early in the book she hears this and I was like, oh no, this book is going to be about like Wyatt finding a new path. Like finding Wyatt finding love. And like seeing that there he can rebuild, right? And like what a powerful thing. Like romance is always about this, right? Like all heroes find love and all heroes are messed up when they start or many of them, right? And I think like, it's such a classic, but when you deliver it in such a way that it's like set against this backdrop of, you know, a funeral, a funeral home, like a com. A place where death is ubiquitous, it becomes really powerful. This statement of like, like the ones who are left behind and how we survive that and how love becomes so vital to us and how love becomes how like friendship, love, companionship, happiness, joy, all these things. Like Whitney has a six year old daughter, prissy. And like, like he's abs. He lo. He's so great with her. Like everything about this guy, like, it's just. He just yearns for people, you know, community, family, love. And it's really, really sweet. It's Such a sweet romance. And then there are, like, some really goofy things that happen in it that I think are our. I. I had this moment where I was like, I, I. That's. It's not implausible. Like, for example, there's a moment where a woman comes in and her partner has been cremated. And she says, I have my own cuss. They're, like, discussing urns. And she says, I have a custom vessel. And she pulls out a dildo and is like, I want. It's a cast of his penis.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Amazing. And I want you to fill it.

[Sarah McLean]

And I was like, that's crazy. And then I was like, guaranteed that has.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Absolutely. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Guaranteed that has happened. And because I think there. I think the other thing that happens here. And again, like, it's this kind of, like, this is a very charming, charming book and very sexy. But I think, like, within the context of this book and others, I sort of wonder, like, do a lot of these writers have a personal relationship with this. This work? Because all the, like, weird. Related to this work seems very plausible in their hands. Like, even this kind of, like, I made a custom cast of this. Of my, like, dead partner's penis for his ashes, which felt like a lot, but also.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But also, sure, someone has.

[Sarah McLean]

And Whitney. Yeah. And Whitney's like, okay. I mean. And I think that's the other thing, again, going back to this sense of, like, these characters are there to help. Like, they are doing this real helper work.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Anyway, I was very charmed by Morning Wood.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, listen.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, of course.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Morning Wood.

[Sarah McLean]

Listen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, right there in the title. Yeah. Okay, so I.

[Sarah McLean]

My last book I want to talk.

[Jennifer Prokop]

About is Big Witch Energy by Molly Harper. This is part of the Starfall Point series. Wait, is that right? Starfall? Anyway, I'm sure that's what it is, everybody. Starfall Point it is. And there is a third book that just came out that is an Audible original. And I'm now realizing probably they all started as Audible originals and then got put into print. I've talked about the first book in this series before, but this one, I think, really does almost like, everything we've talked about, but, like, to a T. Right. So in this book, Caroline Wilton lives on Starfall Point, which is a tiny little island off of. I assumed it was Lake Michigan, but maybe it's Lake Huron. It's in the state of Michigan, and it's in one of the Great Lakes. And what happens, though, is her again, there is a. You're gonna see, like, the same blueprint. There's a curse. If anyone from her family goes off the island for more than, like, a day or two, they will drop dead in a freak accident. Like, they'll. They'll get killed, right? Like a car accident or like a anvil falls on them.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, it's like Final Destination island.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She and everyone else in her family just stays on the island. Like, there's no. There's. There's literally no other choice, right? Like, big pandemic energy. You're trapped on the island. And the thing that has been really. And so, you know, she has. Works at her family's, like, kind of rundown restaurant, bar, and she really wanted to go to college and, you know, couldn't. Couldn't do it. Obviously. Her high school sweetheart left and did go to college, and she didn't really tell him why she couldn't go with him.

[Sarah McLean]

It's only her family who dies, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Only her family. Okay, so he was. He didn't die. And so at the beginning of the book, so in the first book, she and two, the one woman who's new to the town and another woman as essentially, like, some magic happens, and, like, zing. They formed a coven, and they didn't realize they were witches. And so they're, like, learning it. And listen, if you have never read a Molly Harper book, they didn't realize they were witches. Like, seriously, if you have. Molly Harper is so funny. And Molly Harper audiobooks in particular are really good. I. I actually didn't realize until literally right now.

[Sarah McLean]

See, funny.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I was like, I want to end here. So Ben Holt is this high school boyfriend, and his parents die, and he inherits their home. And he has had gone to medical school, got married, has kids. His marriage is over, so he moves his teenage kids back to this house. And so all of a sudden, the high school boyfriend who left is back home. And I found myself thinking about how many people, like, moved back home with family during the pandemic, right? Like, I moved with my mom, or I liked, went. You know, I. It was just easier. I let my lease go and I moved. And I found myself really, like, thinking a lot about this as this happened. And so he is gonna essentially take over for, like, the doctor who's retiring, and he's gonna just like. And he is kind of like, he had never really believed. Actually. I'm kind of remembering. I think Carolyn had told him about the curse, but he didn't really believe in it. And so now what happens is his own kids also realize that they are potentially, like, have magic. And so all of a sudden, he's like, oh, shit. Like, all of this is real. I didn't think it was. And what happens is in this one, I thought it was really powerful. Like, essentially, they realize that they might now that there's so many witches in town. Like, Caroline has her coven and with the two teenagers and men, right? And then, like, you know, in the first book, there was, like, a whole mansion full of ghosts that had been, like, trapped on Starfall Point and that they'd been trying to, like, let, you know, like, move on. They realized that, like, they might be able to figure out where the curse came from and, like, again, like, dispel it. And it's through Caroline facing, like, her own past and her connection to this curse and her fam. Like, the things that have happened in her family that they finally are able to, like, you know, kind of, like, move it all along. And, you know, the. The romance here is, you know, I think, almost secondary. Like, you know, she and Ben are like, okay, great. We should get back together. Like, they do, and it's, you know, like. But I thought that in terms of, like, the. The whole idea of, like, the weight of knowing that you can see the dead and you feel this responsibility towards all these ghosts, whether they are, like, malevolent or helpful or they want to stay or they don't, right? Like, there's all different kinds of ghosts, but, like, in the end, you have to face your own family and what your family's history is before you can let all that go. And so I thought it just, like, tied up. I don't know. I just really loved it. And, like, I said, you'll have a great time. And realizing that, like, literally just a few weeks ago, the third book came out on Audible. And now I'm like, oh, my God. I'm gonna download and start listening to it tomorrow morning on my drive to work. Yeah. So that's Boost Energy by Mala Harper.

[Sarah McLean]

I love it. Well done.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We see dead people, Sarah.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. I mean, I'm sorry, everybody, that this wasn't as fun as some of our Halloween episodes have been in the past, but we really did think that this was an important thing to, like, tackle. It's very clearly something that's on people's minds. And I'm always just, like, on a personal level, I'm always. I always feel, like, really redeemed when we discover something like this, and we're like, oh, look. We've said for years that romance reflects society. It's a mirror. And it's always nice Thing we can say, like, see how it reflects.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I also think it's funny because I think sometimes it's. There's, like, a longer window. But, I mean, as soon as the pandemic started, I bet if we went back and listened to those episodes, you and I were like, who knows how this is going to turn out in romance, Right? But we knew it would. We knew that it would, right? There was never any doubt it would.

[Sarah McLean]

And I mean, of course, there's. I will say this. Like, I expect that a lot of these authors, like, kind of knew what they were doing, but I also think, like, it's entirely possible that they didn't know what they were doing doing. It was just, like, they became fascinated by this idea because this is the way the world is. Like, sometimes we give, sometimes we look. When we look at books, we think, like. And I think the Trailblazer episodes have really shown that to me. Like, when you're deep in it, you're so close to the. You can't see the forest for the trees, right? Like, and so you just don't know you're part of this, like, big, big, big thing that people are doing well.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think there are more mortuary books, right? I think there are, like, lots more.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, there are. There are a bunch more that. Some of which I haven't read, some of which I have read. And I'm like, I remain keeping a giant list, because I think this is really. First of all, I actually do enjoy them. Surprising no one. I love a grief book, and I love. I love it when romance gets weird. Like I said, there's nothing weirder than.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Embalming fluid to me in a romance. And so there you go. Go.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, it's not like they're. Eric was looking at the COVID of Morbidly Yours today, and he goes, I don't know about this hipster funeral director, because he does really look hipstery. And then he goes, does he make his own embalming fluid?

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's terrible. But also funny.

[Sarah McLean]

And I was like. And I was like, yeah, it's organic. Like, it's not you guys. It's not organic, but it could be, and that's what's important. Anyway, I think he's pretty hot on the COVID so whatever. I've always had a little thing for Lurch, so it works out great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I support you.

[Sarah McLean]

Fine. It's fine. Anything else? No, just final days. Six days before the election, everybody go out and do the thing, and, yeah, we love you. We have faith.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Do we do one of the things I would just say, like, for me, that's been really hard is I remember during the early days of the pandemic, like, we'd all, like, the, like, the numbers, like, right? I was, like, really aware of, like, those numbers, right? And, like, what happened when it was like, that one cover of the New York Times. And for me, I remember when it, like, reached the number of, like, dead of, like, Vietnam, because that was, like, obviously such a, like, big thing for.

[Sarah McLean]

Me, a looming thing.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think there's a way in which I am. I. I am shocked still that we collectively have not said, have not mourned.

[Sarah McLean]

No, we haven't reckoned it with it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I have. I found myself feeling, like, a sense of, like, a really deep sense of, like, gratefulness that, like, this genre that we love so much is so expansive and has found ways to provide a way for. For.

[Sarah McLean]

For.

[Jennifer Prokop]

For me collectively to think about what it would mean to say goodbye to over a million people.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, if you did lose somebody during the pandemic, we are sorry, and we see you. I don't know what else to say. Death is hard and weird and complicated and stupid and also weirdly funny. Me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And don't go holding a seance to, you know, bring your dead girlfriend back for a goodbye conversation.

[Sarah McLean]

But all these books are really interesting, and I. I found, as somebody who has recently lost somebody very close to me, I found that they were really great reads. I had a really great time reading them. So. All right, that said, next week, we're back with something that is not the best. We have a very fun episode for next week. We have a guest joining us next week, so don't forget to come back on Wednesday. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are Fated Mates. You can find us every Wednesday on your favorite podcasting app [e-mail] where you can always find a full stunt. Stunningly beautiful in our redesigned website array of the books that we have talked about. You can find information that we've talked about in show notes, and you can find basically everything else that we ever discuss on the podcast over [e-mail]. you can also find us online at Fated Mates or Fated Mates Pod on all of the social media apps. This is our last week on Twitter. We're closing the doors after the election and moving on, but you can find us everywhere else. And if you really love talking about romance or listening to us talk about romance, you can always join our Patreon, where you get an extra episode of the podcast every month. A bantery fun episode. In fact, I just put two things on the banter list that I wanted to discuss on the on the November Banter list and you get access to the Fated Mates Discord, which is a super fun packed thousand person discussion room where people talk about romance all the time and you'll meet new friends and you'll learn stuff and you'll find great books and it's a really good time. That is it. And just as a reminder, if you stick around, you'll hear a sample of the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast from Katherine Grant. Thanks so much.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Get ready for your next historical romance obsession.

[Sarah McLean]

Meet a new Historical romance author weekly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

On the Historical Romance Sampler podcast.

[Sarah McLean]

Each episode you will hear an author.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Read an excerpt of their work, followed by a conversation on craft research and inspiration with me, your host, Katherine Grant. Hear from authors like Caroline Lee on subtle differences between historical settings. A Western will end happily ever after if the characters are committed to one another and are agreeing to work hard together to make a life. They could be dirt poor, they could have been, you know, they could still be on the Oregon Trail, but they're going to be together and that's going to be their happily ever after. Our regencies and our Victorians are happily ever after if the two characters are committed to one another and have a way to support themselves in the manner in which they've been accustomed. So two very different happily ever afters. Or Lysa Raine. So we've got some battle scenes, we've got some escapes, we've got, you know, some drama. But within that we still have to figure out how do these two people who are at odds fall in love with each other? And I need people to see. So when we get to that point where they know they're in love with each other, the reader believes it, right? Like you see the shift in power, you see the compromise, you see whatever. But now you go, now I know how she went from thinking he was an annoying, overbearing cad to being in love with this guy or Hibbe Helmi on her favorite part of a book. I love, love prologues.

[Sarah McLean]

Love them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I find that the prologue just sets things up. And usually in my writing, the prologue is a very different voice than actually the character. So I find that I use them as a framing kind of thing and in a voice that is fun for me. So I like writing them, I like reading them, or join Matilda Madison in fangirling over Lisa Kleyphas. And then you pick up something like a Lisa Clay pass and you're like, this is her imagery is fantastic, her atmosphere, writing, it's always the greatest romance of all time, but her surroundings story is so important and so informative that you feel like you learn something when you read her. Plus, every episode, get a sample of.

[Sarah McLean]

Each author's work, like this scene from Charlie Lane.

[Jennifer Prokop]

His stubble jaw and a straight, strong nose seemed carved from marble in the nose, a little bump on it up high must have been broken once. His eyes were the pale blue of a hot summer sky. And he was not the marquess she knew, but she knew she did know him. Tune in to the Historical Romance Sampler wherever you catch podcasts, including Apple podcasts, Spotify and YouTube.