S07.35: On the Shelf with Spinsters and Wallflowers

Summary

Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People Episode S07.35: On the Shelf with Spinsters and Wallflowers Release Date: May 14, 2025

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Introduction: Welcoming May and Book Tour Excitement

Timestamp: [00:00 - 01:02]

The episode kicks off with co-hosts Sarah MacLean and Jen Prokop delving into the excitement and anxieties that come with May. Sarah exclaims, “It's May, which is freaking me out. Jen.” Jen reassures her, highlighting the communal spirit of Teacher Appreciation Week. They share delightful anecdotes about thoughtful gifts, emphasizing a collective love for simple yet meaningful items. As Jen quips, “Who doesn't love a notebook? Nerd. Ner. Love a notebook,” the conversation naturally segues into Sarah's upcoming book tour.

Book Tour and Special Editions

Timestamp: [01:02 - 06:34]

Sarah reveals her excitement about her new book set to release in less than two months. She shares details about a unique ribbed bodice cover edition that ties into their podcast collections. Sarah enthusiastically states, “If you order the book, if you pre-order the book from the Rip Bodice in Brooklyn, I will sign it for you and it will come with this second dust jacket because it's a hardcover.” She explains the interactive element where listeners can decide which cover best fits the book, fostering a deeper connection with her audience.

Jen adds her support, saying, “I think that's such a fun, like, bonus extra for the rip bodice edition. I love it.” The hosts further promote live events, particularly the upcoming “Faded Maids Live” in St. Louis on July 8th, encouraging listeners to join them for an engaging and interactive experience. Sarah highlights, “We'll get to hang out and take photos. We're going to hire a photographer like we did last time, so that we have lots of pictures of all of you laughing in the audience.”

Main Topic: Spinsters vs. Wallflowers in Romance Novels

Timestamp: [10:10 - 22:00]

The core of the episode revolves around the nuanced differences between spinsters and wallflowers within historical romance literature. Jen introduces the topic, noting, “does like, the difference between a wallflower and a spinster.” Sarah elaborates, drawing parallels to color differences: “It's like, you know, Gatorade red and Gatorade blue.”

They delve into the historical implications of these terms, discussing how “spinster” traditionally refers to an unmarried woman and its evolution in contemporary settings. Sarah shares a poignant moment from her book, recounting how her heroine grapples with societal expectations: “she hears her brother, her future brother-in-law say that she'll be a great aunt, and that'll be that. She hears her brother... She's like, I'm 27 and if I'm going to be a great aunt, like, if I were a man, no one would be saying that to me.”

Jen further explores the internal conflicts faced by characters deemed "on the shelf," emphasizing themes of regret and missed opportunities. “These are women who often are, like, why did I say no? Or why did it take me so long to get over being so shy or whatever it is,” Jen reflects.

Book Recommendations: Exploring the On the Shelf Theme

Timestamp: [35:42 - 77:54]

The hosts enthusiastically recommend a selection of historical romance novels that embody the "on the shelf" archetype:

1. Tessa Dare’s "A Night to Surrender" (Spindle Cove Series)

   • Synopsis: Set in the idyllic Spindle Cove, the story follows Susanna Finch, an apothecary and self-proclaimed spinster, who becomes the target of Colonel Bram Silverthorn's unexpected affection.
   • Jen's Insight: “This is a Tessa Dare. If you love a hero who falls first and hard, Tessa dares for you.”
   • Sarah's Highlight: “They kiss in chapter two, Jen. And then they stop kissing back... It’s a perfect Tessa Dare coded moment.”

2. Caroline Linden’s "An Earl Like You"

   • Synopsis: Eliza Turner navigates the complexities of an arranged marriage with the charming yet secretive Earl of Hastings, all while striving to safeguard her family's legacy.
   • Jen's Take: “This would be a great starter romance because it really introduces... the aristocracy and the rules of society.”

3. Amanda Collins’s "One for the Rogue"

   • Synopsis: Gemma, a geologist, teams up with Lord Cameron Lyle to solve a mystery involving fossil smuggling and a related murder, leading to unexpected romantic developments.
   • Sarah's Commentary: “It's a really charming romance... with the twist and addition of the murder mystery.”

4. Stephanie Rose’s "A Whole New Ball Game"

   • Synopsis: Rachel, a PR professional and romance novelist, finds herself torn between her demanding career and the alluring yet complicated Silas Jones, a retired baseball star.
   • Jen's Enthusiasm: “Balls are flying everywhere, and you wanna check them out in a whole new ball game.”

5. Lenora Bell’s Wallflowers vs. Rogues Series

   • Synopsis: The series features heroines who form a secret society to pursue their own goals beyond marriage, confronting societal norms and personal challenges.
   • Sarah's Appreciation: “The dialogue is really snappy. The plots really move.”

6. Michelle Styles’s "Taming His Viking Woman"

   • Synopsis: Sarah, a shield maiden, faces the challenge of an unwanted arranged marriage while defending her autonomy and identity within Viking society.
   • Jen's Excitement: “All right, what can happen? What will happen?”

Tribute to Madeline Hunter

Timestamp: [60:23 - 73:47]

Sarah takes a heartfelt moment to honor the late Madeline Hunter, a pivotal figure in the romance literature community. “Madeline was the Chair of the RWA Academic committee... she was vital in ensuring that romance literature received the academic attention it deserved.” Sarah reminisces about Madeline's kindness and influence, mentioning, “She was incredibly kind and really welcoming.”

She highlights Madeline's work, particularly her novel "His Wicked Reputation," praising the strong, planned heroine who navigates societal pressures while managing her own ambitions. Sarah states, “Eva, the heroine, is a... perfectly, like, precise heroine who has a plan for her life that does not involve marriage.”

Additional Book Recommendations: Expanding the Shelf Archetype

Timestamp: [73:47 - 79:43]

1. Elizabeth Boyle’s "Along Came a Duke" (Rhymes With Love Series)

   • Synopsis: Tabitha, living under a familial curse that prevents her from marrying, encounters Preston, a reclusive duke, leading to a complex romance intertwined with village mysteries.
   • Sarah's Synopsis: “Tabitha ... lives in Kempton, a cursed village where marriage leads to tragedy... she meets this rogue man at the forge, leading to a captivating romance.”

2. Lenora Bell’s "Love is a Rogue" (Wallflowers vs Rogues Series)

   • Synopsis: Beatrice Bentley, a determined woman with a physical imperfection, forms an unexpected bond with Ford, a rugged navy man, defying class differences and societal expectations.
   • Jen's Insight: “She is a total book. She just doesn't have to show herself to the world.”

Conclusion: Engaging with the Fated Mates Community

Timestamp: [79:20 - End]

Sarah and Jen wrap up the episode by inviting listeners to join them at upcoming live events, particularly highlighting their St. Louis meetup on July 8th. They encourage fans to share their favorite "Spinsters" in historical romances and to explore their website for more resources and show notes. Sarah concludes with a warm invitation, “We are Fated Mates. Come and see us live in person in St. Louis on July 8th.”

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Notable Quotes:

• Sarah MacLean [00:00]: "It's May, which is freaking me out. Jen."
• Jen Prokop [00:15]: "Who doesn't love a notebook? Nerd. Ner. Love a notebook."
• Sarah MacLean [05:13]: "But in this case, you don't have to. You just buy the one copy and you get both, which is how it should be."
• Sarah MacLean [14:04]: "Varietals that you experience when essentially you have a heroine that... feels like marriage is no longer an option for her."
• Jen Prokop [22:00]: "I will say so. I found myself thinking like, right on the Shelf is about being Put there."
• Sarah MacLean [73:50]: "What will happen?"

This episode masterfully blends lively discussions about the evolving archetypes of spinsters and wallflowers in romance novels with enthusiastic book recommendations and heartfelt tributes, making it a comprehensive and engaging listen for both longtime fans and newcomers to the Fated Mates community.

Transcript

[Sarah McLean]

It's May, which is freaking me out. Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

May is a good time for a school teacher.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, you're, like, in the home stretch.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm in the final throes of a school year.

[Sarah McLean]

Teacher Appreciation week this week. Did you get something nice?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, we, like. Our Parents association does, like, little gifts, like, you know, and some of them are cute. Like, one day it was like, like a cookie for everybody. And today they had, like, little notebooks, and everybody was really excited because everybody loves a little notebook.

[Sarah McLean]

Who doesn't love a notebook? Nerd. Ner. Love a notebook.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, and those are my people.

[Sarah McLean]

And look, teachers are nerds, and we love them for it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So are we going to talk about your book tour, Sarah?

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, God, yeah. My book is out in less than two months, which feels impossible because it feels like I wrote this book 12 million years ago. These summer storms, you guys, I'm going to be the worst. I, like, have to talk about it all the time now, and it's so annoying. I know. But I have a book coming out, and there's some cool stuff, though. I announced a bunch of cool stuff this week.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Exactly. Well, I want you to talk about the ribbed bodice cover edition. Okay.

[Sarah McLean]

So this is really cute. And it actually ties into collections, so there's that, too. So, first and foremost, podcast. Some podcast. Welcome to fate of mates, everyone. This is our podcast. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor.

[Sarah McLean]

And we are revamping our website. Everybody knows this rethinking. Just like how we can best be your DiscoverAbilla buddy, which is a name that Kim only reads romance gave us. She's out there listening. Kim, thanks for listening. And thanks for calling us Discover Bilibuddies, because that is the greatest, the best. Yes, I want. Put it on my tombstone. And so basically, the premise, the idea that Eric actually had was, what if we made a place on our website where real people who are not AI and not not beholden to an algorithm can recommend books based on a microtrope? So we've done some cool. We've talked about some of them in the past. You can go to fademates.net and just click on collections. You go see all the ones that have been created already. Although we have a backlog already of, like, people who filled out who've sent us collections, and we're trying to get them all up online. But some of them are authors, Some of them are friends of, you know, listeners. Some are friends of us in real life. The Kim only reads romance because she named us discoverability buddies. We asked her if she'd like to do a collection and she chose secret tattoos.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's amazing.

[Sarah McLean]

One of my. Anybody who's read a Sarah Maclean novel knows this. I love a secret tattoo that has like a secret meaning. Yes, only between like the two people. So this collection has a number. Some book, a bunch of books I haven't read too. Yeah, I mean, I know you love that Joanna Wild Reaper's Legacy book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, I told you about that book. That's the one with the, the fingerprints.

[Sarah McLean]

Incredible. Incredible.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Just it is everybody, you know, there's.

[Sarah McLean]

We made a lot of people angry last week with third act breakups. But like fingerprint tattoos go right up there on that shelf, that third act breakup shelf. But there are books from Serena Ayd I haven't read this one, Steel. I haven't read Victoria Wilder's Hide and Peek. There's a Penny Reid on here. We all love her so. And there is a Tara DeWitt on here called Funny Feelings. And the art on Funny Feelings is done by a place called Ink and Laurel, an artist named Ink and Laurel. And she has done a special edition romance cover for these summer storms, which is so fun. It's really and like so pretty and romantic. And it's Jen's. It's like the scene following Jen's favorite scene in the book, which you'll hear all about when we do our storms episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

But it's so great because she took a scene right out of these summer storms and like made it real and romancy. And there's like gravity defying hair and you know, a handsome man who also has a tattoo. Though it is not a secret tattoo. It does not have a special meaning to them both. And like there you can see the sort of big gothic house on the hill and the private island and it just feels really stormy and lovely. And one of the cool things about storms that I have been sort of saying to everybody is while I personally, Sarah McLean, who reads romance novels and writes romance novels, would not put this into genre romance. There is a big fat romance that runs right through the center of this book. It's just not the a plot. And you all know, fademates listeners know, like I am a purist and it's important to me to not take you down a road.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

That is that you as romance readers would not.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Would consider. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Would feel that you had been taken down a road on. And so. But I think you'll be satisfied by this romance that runs right through the center of the book. And if you order the book, if you pre order the book from the Rip Bodice in Brooklyn, I will sign it for you and it will come with this second dust jacket because it's a hardcover. So you'll get the original dust jacket and then you'll get the romancy one. And you pick your vibe, read the book and decide which cover it should have. And then tell me, send me a picture, take a picture, put it on the Internet, tag me, let me know which cover you think it should have had from the jump. But it's very cool.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think that's such a fun, like, bonus extra for the rip bodice edition. I love it.

[Sarah McLean]

Listen, I'm on the record on this podcast for saying, like, don't buy multiple editions of a book just to get the, like, different sprayed edges. But in this case, you don't have to. You just buy the one copy and you get both, which is how it should be. So that's happening. You can do that at the Ripped Bodice. There are links in show notes right now that you can go to. It's also on all of my, you know, social media and on the website, my website@Sarah McLean.net but also, and more.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Importantly, Fated Mates Live, Dated Mates Live.

[Sarah McLean]

The Summer Storms edition, which, you know, just means that you're gonna get a copy of Storms with your ticket to Faded Mains Live, a gift with purchase, if you will.

[Jennifer Prokop]

There you go.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm. We. Obviously, we are the gift you get with purchase.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, and Kate.

[Sarah McLean]

And Kate. And we're doing it with Kate Claiborne, who everybody knows we love, love, love. We're going to St. Louis to novel Neighbor, which is like a legendary store. I cannot wait.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I can't wait to go there.

[Sarah McLean]

Listen, Novel Neighbor has said that they would like to do a meetup for everybody before the before Faded Maids Live. So everybody will go to the store and, like, hang and, like, shop and talk about books together. And then, like, every Uber in St.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Louis will come to the store and take you to the other place.

[Sarah McLean]

A marauding band of fated maids. Listeners just taking over the streets in St. Louis.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Magnificent firebirds on the move.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. To come to Faded Maids Live, which is my release night. It's July.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I know. It's so fun.

[Sarah McLean]

It's so exciting. And we'll get to hang out and take photos. We're going to hire a photographer like we did last time, so that we have lots of pictures of all of you laughing in the audience. We're going to do our best to make it as fun as possible. So if you are in the Midwest, and I say this because as a New Englander, this blows my mind, but Midwesterners travel. And so if you are in the Midwest and free on July 8, come hang out with us. Tickets. There are still tickets available, though they are selling quite quickly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, they are.

[Sarah McLean]

So head to faded mates.net live and it'll take you to all the information on the live event and then my full book tour, which is in eight cities around the country. Come see me. Jen is going to be with me for at least two, maybe three of the events. You'll be able to meet Jen. I'll have fademate stickers. We'll have a great time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's gonna be so fun. One of my favorite really funny things in the discord is people are talking about, like, maybe bringing, like, you know, their moms and their aunts and their sisters and all this fun stuff. And someone was like, should I bring their baby? And someone else said, magnificent fire baby.

[Sarah McLean]

I know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I was like, I'm so delighted by this.

[Sarah McLean]

I love it. Somebody said, I don't know if it was the same person or a different person, but she was like, I can't make it to fate. It makes live because I'm giving birth. Like, okay, that's allowed. And then she was like, but I'm definitely gonna drag my postpartum ass to Dec for your. And I was like, wait, you were what? You live in Georgia. What? And then I was like, bring that baby. I will hold that baby. I'm good at holding babies and talking.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm not good at holding babies, but I do like all of you. So if you needed me, if you were in a jam and you're like, somebody's gotta hold this baby, I would be like, I guess I can do.

[Sarah McLean]

Bring your babies. I will hold your baby. One time I did an event when I. When my daughter was incredibly, incredibly young, and Susan Elizabeth Phillips held her the entire time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, that's so nice.

[Sarah McLean]

Just like injecting her with third act breakup magic.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right? Absolutely. I was like, right, like dipping her in the. Like the river sticks. But it's the river romance.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly. So I'm paying it forward. Bring your baby to me. And I will hold her and talk about, you know, all things inappropriate. But she'll be. But they'll be little so they won't know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It'll be perfect.

[Sarah McLean]

It'll be perfect anyway. But you're coming up on the end of school. So we decided to do what we. What we refer to as an easy one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. That just means. Well, usually it means the following, depending on who is more in a jam. The one person is, like, kind of, like, takes point and does a lot of research, and the other person just rolls in. As I said earlier in a text.

[Sarah McLean]

Message, Just pure vibes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Like, I've got pure vibes blowing through my sales. And so we'll just see what I say. And this week's topic, though, is one that a couple of weeks ago, we are just, like, chatting, and Sarah said on the shelf, and. And then was like, that would be a really good topic. And I was like, it would be a really good topic.

[Sarah McLean]

It's so weird to me that we've never done it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it is. So on the shelf is essentially. I mean, so this is gonna be like a historical heavy episode because it really specifically means, like, someone who is off of the dance floor of the marriage mart and. Right. Just, like, sort of has aged out of, like, the sort of process of looking for a husband. And, you know, back in the day, that was meant you were, like, 22 and a half, but fine. But I think the thing that I was also thinking about that would be really fun for us to talk about is, like, you know, like, the difference between a wallflower and a spinster. And. Right. Like, it was really interesting when I was doing a little bit of light research. Vibes research. I sort of Googled, like, I think, like, wallflower romance books or whatever. And the A list that came up was, like, shy heroines. And I was like, oh, I don't necessarily think that that's what that means. And then I was like, maybe we should talk about what it means varietals that you experience when essentially you have a heroine that, for whatever reason, feels like marriage is no longer an option for her. And I think even a question is. Does, like, regardless of whether or not she wants it to be right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, I think they're. They're two different flavors. Right. It's like, you know, Gatorade red and Gatorade blue.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well done, Sarah. I don't know. What an illuminating comparison.

[Sarah McLean]

Shut up, Jen. I did the research this week.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's true. She did. I'm just here to talk, apparently, and, you know, be like.

[Sarah McLean]

I will say that I did pause it. To Louisa Darling, author of where have all the Scoundrels Gone? Our current favorite historical.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

What does spinster look like in contemporary.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I have some thoughts about this. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

She. Well, her Response was so perfect that I have to share it here, which is she. There was like, kind of a lot. This was obviously over text because nobody talks to anybody by. Why would you do that by phone or anything anymore?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And.

[Sarah McLean]

And she sent me the TikTok of the French guy who recently. That was recently passed around. And it. And the title of it is Dating a Girl who Used to be Alone can be very Hard.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah. That is the most brilliant TikTok I will ever seen.

[Sarah McLean]

Immediately you guys pause, go to show notes and watch this and just have a delightful moment. But, like. And what Louisa described this as is, like, determinedly single. Like, and this TikTok is hilarious because basically it's like, you think you're better than her, like, laying on the couch, drinking wine and watching Gilmore Girl.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right? Like, good luck to you, sir. Right. Like, he's like, you got to know your place with these ones. They're rough. Right?

[Sarah McLean]

And then I was like, can you think of an example? And she was like, from my real life? Yes, but I can't think of an example in text. And so I think it's interesting because I actually think that, that I. I actually think there probably are a handful of.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of.

[Sarah McLean]

Of heroines in romance right now who are that. Yeah, but I actually don't think there are. And then I think in presents, say, or in, like, a very particular kind of contemporary where there is a sort of demand for marriage, like, you're too, like, you're too old, but now you have to. Or, you know, you've never been able to, but now you have to. But, like, on the shelf is a particularly historical concept.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Susan Elizabeth Phillips in Heaven, Texas, Gracie is like, on the shelf. But part of that is because of, like, her job, right? She works at a. Right. She, like, works with senior citizens. And she just feels like she can't figure out how to, like, you know, she wears, like, clothes she hates and, you know, and so she just really feels like, because of, like, the people who raised her and her job, she doesn't know how to meet young people her age. And so she takes this, like, really dramatic, like, you know, I'm gonna go work for a movie, because certainly that will, you know, kind of put me in a different, like, atmosphere. Right. But I mean, so. And she. So she does feel that, like, very strongly. But, you know, it is, I would say, like. And I think the other thing you see, but it's not on the shelf is like. And it's the same in historical, like, the 30 year old I'm I'm reaching a milestone.

[Sarah McLean]

Pesky virginity.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I've got a milestone birthday. Right, Exactly. I've got a milestone birthday. And what am I gonna do? Yeah. This week's episode, faded Mates is brought to you by Susan Lee, author of the Romance Rivalry.

[Sarah McLean]

Jen, this is so cute. Um, listen, I love a ya.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Romanian.

[Sarah McLean]

It's the perfect YA romance for anybody looking for something for the young romance lover in your life. Irene park loves romance novels, which makes us love Irene Park. So much so that she has made a career of them as an online book reviewer, and she has a massive following. But the reality is, is that, like, in high school, Irene's love life has been kind of a mess, but she is about to have a fresh start. She's starting freshman year of college, and she has set her sights on finding true love using primary source material, romance novels.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So smart Irene is.

[Sarah McLean]

So she's decided she's going to take all the tropes from romance novels and she is going to use them methodically, scientifically, to find herself the perfect romance. Enter Aiden. Irene's online book review rival her biggest nemesis. And when Aiden kind of clocks what Irene is up to, he challenges her to a little competition. They're both going to take tropes and try to find love. And whoever gets their first wins. Except the competition is all shenanigans. And that's gonna be the best part about this book. And then ultimately, it takes an unexpected turn into, you guessed it, fake dating. And these two who, our rivals, they hate each other, right? I don't think they do.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't think they do.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't think they do. I think they are going to fall hard for each other, and it's gonna be a great ride.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm about to bunch of buy. Buy a bunch of these for the romance girlies in my class.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm gonna drop one in the bookshelf two doors down from my office right now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

All right, everybody, if you would like to check out the romance rivalry for the young romance reader in your life, it is available in print, ebook and audio. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chap right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Susan Lee for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah McLean]

We're in a trio of episodes. We're like, somewhere they're not going to be back to back. Obviously, a couple episodes ago, we did Ruination, and now we're doing on the shelf, which is different than Ruination. And there is a third episode that obviously that then like will be the kind of holy trinity of what happens to heroines in historicals. And that is pesky virginity. And so I think like, interestingly, like I separated out the virginity ones. The like what and what. I mean, we'll talk about what that means. But like I separated out the ones that were like, I'm 30 years old and I want to like have an adventure.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Because I was like, that's a different vibe than I have been. I feel like for on the Shelf you have to have been set there by society.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right. I mean, that's the thing. It's like on the Shelf is like I want to climb down and I can't or don't know how. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, yeah, like I'm wearing a lace cap. I'm sitting next to the old, the old ladies against the wall and like that's just where I am.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, right, exactly. The lace cap. Sorry, I don't. Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean it's interesting because it does feel like, you know, again, I think nine Rules comes up a lot, a lot, a lot. When you come, when you talk about spinsters because she is such a spinster and she sort of falls into multiple categories here. But I do think like she has been set upon the shelf. She has a moment early in the book where she overhears her brother like basically saying like, she'll be a great aunt, like, and that'll be that. She hears her brother, her future brother.

[Jennifer Prokop]

In law say that, well, and it's like, she can live with us. Don't worry about it.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, she'll be fine. We have plenty of money. She can live with us, be a great aunt. And she's like, hang on a second. I'm 27 and if I'm going to be a great, like, and if I were a man, no one would be saying that to me. Correct. And so like I obviously listen, that was my first romance. I wrote it. Like, I packed that book full of things that I loved. And so I love a spinster. I love them. And like there's a reason why for me, like there. Lisa Klepus is, is like there is Lisa Clippers supremacy. And the Lisa Clippers supremacy that I endorse is old school Lisa Claypus because like that's where all the spinsters live.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right? Right. I mean the Wallflowers is a series. Right. I mean like it was built into the literal system of it. So. Yeah, well. And that's it, I guess I, I will say so. I, I found myself thinking like, right on the Shelf is about being Put there. Whereas, like, wallflower, I guess I could see as being more like, I'm shy and I just fade into the background. Right. And spinster, I think, in some ways felt a little like. I've definitely read historical romances where, like, she's reclaiming that. Right. Like, in a way, like. Right. Like, I might not want anything to do with this. I have my great life being this spinster or whatever. Right. So on the shelf, though, is like, this isn't what I wanted. It's not the life I thought I would have and.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I. I don't know that I would say I'm not. I can't promise I'm not going to talk about wallflowers or spinsters, but I.

[Sarah McLean]

Do think, no, there is a sort of.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

But it does feel it overlaps. Yeah. I mean, I do think spinster is Spencer's. This interesting word, Right. Because, like, it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

It caught. Means anybody who is on any unmarried woman. Right, right, right. My mother is. My mother's marriage certificate says her name, and then underneath it says spinster.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Shut up.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. And the like. And that's wild to me, right? Like, my mother married my father when she was, like, I don't know, 26.

[Jennifer Prokop]

How dare. Wow.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, granted, my parent. My parents, you know, everybody. My parents were married in Bristol, England. So, like, spinster is. Is the word that is an. It's a very English word. But I also think, like. So to your point, though, it feels like in historicals, spinster, like, it starts to edge into wallflower. Interestingly, when we were young. Not wallflower into. On the shelf. When we were young, it was like 24, 25. On the shelf.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Now we are all, like. I have written a couple of. Of. Of characters who are on the shelf, and they're all in their upper 20s.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Older, edging, 30. And that be. That's because we write the book for the time we live in. And if I wrote, like, 24 is a Tessa Bailey heroine. Come on now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, exactly. Exactly.

[Sarah McLean]

But I will say, like, I'm not gonna talk too much about her, but I also think, like, it's kind of impossible to have this conversation without talking about Mary Ballug. And that's because Mary wrote. I mean, I would think of the 40 or however many books Mary wrote, has written, over half of them are spinster. Books are, like, on the shelf. Older heroines. Heroines who have lived a life. And I think that this is also a piece of on the shelf, like, this kind of the dichotomy or the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The.

[Sarah McLean]

The conflict between having been around long enough that you have seen the way the world works. Right. These are not ingenues on the shelf. And also often, like, innocent. And I like, quote innocent. Like, I mean, like, sexually inexperienced. Like, inexperienced. And so that sort of push pull between, like, knowing what's behind the door and not ever having been able to open the door is the challenge, I think, in on the Shelf because you're also, like, prized in a way. Like, there's always, like, a older character, like, some character in these books who's like, well, if you come down off the shelf and take the world by its horns, then you could be ruined. And it's like, well, what.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think that, to me, does feel like one of the key parts of on the Shelf is, like, that this heroine is, like, height, like, almost like perseverates on what they feel were, like, the missed opportunities. Right. Like, there they are on the shelf, and what else are you gonna do there but think? You know what I mean?

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so, like, these are women who often are, like, why did I say no? Or why I could have, you know, I don't know, like, look back on some of the choices potentially that they did have as younger women or in their seasons or, like, why did it take me so long to get over being so shy or whatever it is. Right. And I. And so I do think that that tends to be kind of interesting to me because I don't think that. Because I think regret is a really interesting character trait. I think it's interesting to see what people regret in their lives.

[Sarah McLean]

I also think there's something going on here with, like, generationally. In romance. Like, I think on this Shelf is becoming. I think obviously it's used as a touchstone in historicals a lot. Like, there's this sort of sense of, like, well, if you don't get married before, whenever you'll be on the shelf, right? Like, you're climbing up onto the shelf or whatever the thing is. Right. But I do think, like, in 2025, we are seeing fewer of these books because the story doesn't resonate in a contemporary world in the same way. And that's. That's good, right? Like, there is. There is a real sense that I think readers are more. Are tending to be more interested in characters who are expansive. And so I do think, like, these are the. This is the realm, a very particular kind of historical.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, I feel like back in the day, every book was this, better.

[Sarah McLean]

Get married before you get old.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

So, and it's interesting because when I was going through. When I was thinking about the books, and I really am everybody, I'm gonna try really hard to talk about books that we have not spoken about. And although there are some. Certainly some names on. On this list that we have spoken about. But, you know, when you think about we're not going to get deep into it because we did a deep dive. But, like, the proposition is a perfect example.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Right. Of Win is on the shelf and forced there by circumstance, wealth, like, the lack of wealth, the fact that she had to take a job, the fact that she lost access to the aristocracy, the fact that she is not attractive.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, all these things kind of layer in and make her a blue stocking on the shelf, despite the fact that she has a very rich. And she's a perfect example of, like, what I was trying to get at with which is she lives alone. She doesn't have a. Oh, the other thing about this is, like, putting a character on the shelf really loosens up the responsibility of having a chaperone.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, that's true.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, I will say, and I think I've said this on an earlier episode, God knows when, but, you know, when you write characters who are. Who are like virgins or young women of means in historicals, an editor, any decent editor is going to say to you, like, like, hey, why is she running around alone? Like, doesn't she have a spot? Doesn't she have a chaperone? Right? But, like, if she's older, you can.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sort of wave that away, right?

[Sarah McLean]

Nobody. She's dusty, nobody wants her. Right? And so I think, like, Win from the Proposition is a good example of, like, somebody who can. Who has, like, access to the world, if only she would take it. But, like, is keenly. Is, like, really buttoned up because she's been raised in a society that tells her that, like, women don't do, you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Know, the other kind of on the shelf that I think, like, the Bridgertons really traffic in, and in particular, I would say Anthony's book and then Penelope's book, right. Is like. And it's like they're. They're different, but it's like on the shelf because your family moved on to a. Like, more like, like your sibling was a better prospect. And there was only so much energy to, like, get like, to. You know what I mean? To, like, move someone forward onto the. To the marriage mart. Now, that's not really true of Penelope because she's, you know, just like her mom, where, you know, Picks these horrible dresses. And you know what I mean? Like, she just is like, you know, it's always, like, the wrong thing. Her mom's too thirsty for it, and Penelope is really shy, and it's just like, a horrible mismatch between, like, who she is as a person and then her mother's pressure. But in the second book, which is. Is it the viscount who loved me, I'm like, I know words. You know, I always really loved the fact that Kate was like, essentially, you know, her father had remarried and she has a younger sister who is just like a diamond of the first water, right? And therefore, Kate is just like, well, of course we're all gonna get behind. I can't remember her name, right? Getting her married. And it's very freeing in some ways for Kate, right? But she doesn't even really think that she's. She just sort of is like, why would anybody even look at me if my sister Edwina is around, right? She does this really, truly without, like, jealousy or rancor. And I think that it really, to me, felt like it played against type. Because sometimes the, like, beautiful older sibling or, you know, the beautiful sister or whatever is terrible, is mean and, you know, is treats the, you know, the other one, I mean, I think that Callie is also has a kind sibling, right? The one who, you know, her sister is totally great and wonderful and loves Callie and had no problem catching herself a man. And I think that I really like the idea that, like, for some of these women and these characters, I mean, for Kate, it was kind of like, well, I just. It's somehow not my turn. I've decided that Edwina. Everyone has decided that Edwina is. This is her year, it's not mine, right? And I, I, I think that there's something interesting about the ones who sort of, like, put themselves on the shelf maybe a little bit or agree to get up on the shelf out of a sense of self sacrifice.

[Sarah McLean]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by 1001 Dark Knights, publishers of the Sparks and Surrender Enemies to Lovers romance collection.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sparks and Surrender is the perfect title for an Enemies to Lovers collection because that is what a good Enemies to Lovers story should deliver to you, right? So sparks fly. These people are enemies or bitter rivals. They can't stand each other. It's like being in the middle of a burning house, right? How could anyone ever think that this is love? Well, because that burning house is not paid to everyone, right? And so what we've got are these really fiery romances where people start off as enemies and then, of course, become lovers. So we have novellas in this collection by Laura Wright and Alexandra Ivy, Elizabeth Naughton, Jill Chalvis and Rachel Van Dyken, heavy hitters who are going to deliver the perfect Enemies to Lovers Romance to you.

[Sarah McLean]

If you love Enemies to Lovers romances and you want to read this collection, which I'm sure you do, you can do that right now in print, ebook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now and be taken to buy the book. Thanks so much to 1001 Dark Knights and all the authors for sponsoring this week's episode. The other thing that we have to talk about is this blue stocking piece, right. Which is. We've done a blue stocking episode. We did it long a while back. But like, the way there is something that these books are saying, bluestocking books are saying something very particular about, like, intellectual pursuit in the mind of a woman. And again, I think this is. I mean, like, we don't have to get into it because you all understand what I'm about to say intuitively, but there is. The books are saying some like saying something about the world. Right. Like women. Women who think are dangerous and unwanted in these books. And. And so because they think they are then shelved.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And then they find somebody who sees them and their brain.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And their brilliance for all that it is worth. And so I think there is. So I think like, she. The blue stocking also lives in this world. So it sounds to me like we've got like blue stockings on the shelf. We've got Elle, like older. Older characters who get up there. We've got characters who choose it. Right. Then there's like feminists.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, Right, right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like second wave feminists.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I feel like that's like Jessica Trent. It's kind of like.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, Jessica Trent's like a real deal feminist. But like, I'm talking about, like, women shouldn't have to marry Irene Wollstonecraft. Right. Like that kind of feminist. So it's like spinster by. Or spinster slash, you know, on the shelf by choice because of society or because of society slash age. And then because of society slash.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

Smart.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, right. Like you got. Listen, can't do both, you know, can't be smart and be married. Sorry.

[Sarah McLean]

So, all right, let's get into it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah McLean]

Do you. So I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start with the lowest hanging fruit, the one that everybody is going. These two idiots better talk About Spindle Cove.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, even this idiot was like, there's. There's the vibes behind my wind, my sails.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, sure, Obviously.

[Sarah McLean]

This is Tessa Dare, arguably at her very finest.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Absolutely.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, there is so much. I. I reread the first half of a Night to Surrender this morning.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You fell right into it, man.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, I'm sad. I can't go back to it. Right. Like, that book slaps it is Tessa Dare at. I mean, she is. She is really, honestly at her finest there. And I know, you know, people are going to fight me about this, but you're wrong. Like, it is so pure Tessa. It begins. I mean. Okay, Spindle Cove, for those of you who don't know, is charmingly, like, referred to in this book, in this series as Spinster Cove because it is a town in the. At the sea in the south of England where, like, families send their single, like, unmarried daughters to, like, take the air.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would like to go there. It seems so nice.

[Sarah McLean]

You're not allowed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Why not?

[Sarah McLean]

You have Mr. Reads Romance.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Fine. He would send me, though. He'd be like, go take in some air. You're too much.

[Sarah McLean]

He needs a passport, A special kind of passport.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, remember how I said, like, Eric wouldn't be let into the. Right. Like, the. The bar that was. You know, if you don't believe in Sephora, it won't let you in.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly. Exactly. Okay, so, but here's the deal. So in A Night to Surrender, this is the first in the Spindle Cove series. And listen, I love a first in a series because it just, like, it tees it all up. It's a freaking delight. You learn. You can see all the future books all lined up. There is. This is textbook historical. Like, there is nothing about this book that doesn't, like, hit exactly as you expect it to hit. This is. It's like it was designed in a lab to, like, make Regency readers salivate. So the. The beginning. But then it has so much Tessa laid into it. Like, so the beginning of this book, there are a bunch of, like. Like, soldiers returned from war or, like, I don't actually know why all these soldiers are standing around on, like, a road in England. It doesn't matter. They're all there and they're trying to get through to see, actually, do you know, they're trying to get to a castle nearby or, like, a house nearby to have a conversation with somebody, and they are being stopped by a herd of sheep. Sheep who. This is here tested air. Right. There's an animal Boom.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Animal.

[Sarah McLean]

Right at the very beginning, right? Like, these sheep are cantankerous and do not. Are not interested in the fact that these are, like, warriors who are, like, noble and returned home from war. And so they. And Bram, our hero, is like, he has vanquished the French. He has vanquished Napoleon, and he will not be flummoxed by this herd of sheep, but instead. So he decides, like, all right, load up the cannons. Like, we've got a bunch of black powder. We don't have to shoot a cannon at these things, but let's explode the cannon and, like, not. Not hurt them, not shoot a cannonball, but, like, the sound will startle them into running off the road. And so they're like, okay, there's, like. So it's. It begins with, like, a bunch of dingbat men, like, trying to figure out how to get sheep out of a road. And they're like, I know weaponry. So then it cuts to Spindle Cove, which is quiet and idyllic and perfect because no men live there. And Susanna Finch, our heroine, is, like, the, like, mayor of the town. Like, I don't think. I don't think that's her actual, like, title. But she's, like, basically like myself. Everybody's sort of appointed her. She's very competent. She's an apothecary. So, like, where we meet her with, like, a woman being, like, delivered by a young woman being delivered by her family to Spindle Cove, who's like. And her mother is like, where's the closest surgeon? Because she needs to be bloodlet whenever she has an episode, and Susanna's like, the next. The surgeon's in the nearest town. Your daughter's going to be safe. But, like, in her head, she's like, you get out. I'm gonna take care of your daughter, right? She's, like, Dr. Protector. She's a great marksman. Like, but she's an avowed spinster because Spindle Cove, like, she runs this town. This town is. She is lead spinster.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She's the chief spinster.

[Sarah McLean]

Now also, chapter two. And then, like, as she's talking about this, she's like. It's so idyllic, so quiet. She. Her nerves will be very calm here. And then kaboom. Like, the land is shaking because Bram and his idiots are trying to blow a bunch of sheep, right? And it's very delightful. It's written in that, like, rat attack way that Tessa writes. It's. It's really just a delight to read. Now, the men show up in chapter two. Like, of course. I mean, like this book moves at a clip. And in classic Tessa form, Bram sets eyes on Susanna, who is like a tall, red headed, like bigger, bigger woman. And he's like, I love her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, yeah. Boom.

[Sarah McLean]

Gone. This is, I mean, this is a Tessa Dare. If you love a hero who falls first and hard Tessa dares for you. And so they kiss in chapter two, Jen. And then they stop kissing back in.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The good old days. Gosh.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh my God. He just like lays. Like she has helps him. He. He's like bleeding. She helps like she heals his like, shoulder or whatever. And then he's like, it's nothing. It's nothing a little kiss won't fix. And then he just lays one on her. And it's great for both of them. And she's like, no, but I'm a spinster. Like he's a man. Yuck. But also like, yum. And then in there's this great moment and it's so perfectly Tessa Dare coded where she's the heroine, looks at the hero and says, this poor soldier was addled by war. Like it's the only answer because no sane man had ever looked at her like that. Like, cuz he wants her so bad.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Perfect.

[Sarah McLean]

And it's great. You are going to. This is your summer series, you guys. You're going to get these summer storms and you're going to get spindle combined and you're gonna have a great time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. If you haven't read those, they really are. I mean it's. They are terrific.

[Sarah McLean]

They really are really a very fun series. And then you have a full, you know, you have whatever, four or five books in the series.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I am going to talk about an Earl like youe by Caroline Linden. This is a book I really loved and I think there's like a lot of reasons for it. And one of the reasons is everybody knows that like one of my favorite things is like Heroin against the Wall. But in this one it's Hero against the Wall. And what it is is Hugh Devereaux essentially inherits the earldom. Right. And I think the thing that's like really great about this is he really had no idea just what a like, idiot his father was when it came to money stuff. So it's like one of those things where sometimes these men inherit the earldom and they know that it just like. Right. Like us like an albatross around their neck. They know that it's going to be terrible because there's no money. But Hugh, I think, really did not Know, and so he. You know, this is the part I also love. He's like, well, I guess I got to raise a bunch of money to fix this. And so he does what any gentleman would do, which is basically just, like, gambles, like, as a job. Because you can't have a job. You're right. Your job is Earl. Your job is not to do Earl.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. Your job is title.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Your job is your title. And so he spends. I mean, and I like, my memory is that it's like a couple of years, essentially just like gambling every night to basically do everything he can to get the earldom back to being at least a little bit solvent. And what happens is at this point, and this. I also really love this. A wealthy merchant buys up the remaining debt. And I think, like, if I remember correctly, too, it's like, you know, just when he kind of felt like there was a light at the end of the tunnel and I was going to get out of this, whatever. Buys up the remaining debt and says, if you can convince my daughter to marry you. Right. We will consider it. Will consider it even, you know, I'm not gonna force her to marry you. I'm not buying you. I'm not buying.

[Sarah McLean]

Wait, so does she know?

[Jennifer Prokop]

She doesn't know. And the deal is that's the money.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, the deal is the money.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You. You can never tell her.

[Sarah McLean]

She can never know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She can never know. So Eliza is the heroine, right? And basically what she thinks is, this is my father's handsome new business partner, the Earl of Hastings. And, you know, he's such a gentleman. And he. You. He is so, like, look at his nice manners. Look at the cut of his suit and, like, all that stuff, right? And so. And he seems to really be into her. And so, of course, she, you know, falls in love and agrees to marry him. The whole time, he is not telling her the truth. Now, part of the other shocking reason I think that this book really. I love this book so much, is I typically really do not enjoy books like this where, like, the setup is lying, right? Like, he's lying to her. But I think the reason it works is he has been. They're both in the trap, right? Her father is the one who, like, laid the trap. And so he really has no choice but to sort of, like, right. Like to court her. And, of course, what does he do but fall in love with her, right? And so I think it was just like, a really great read for me. You know, I went back for this one, and I looked at my Goodreads Review which a lot of them are not still up. But one of the other things about this book is this would be a great like if you are a person who's like, I've never really read historical. It seems too overwhelming. There's all this, you know, what the hell is a reticule or whatever. Right. Then this is a really good like starter romance because it really introduces. There's a lot of talk about like, well, what is what properties are entailed and her dowry and the aristocracy and you know, whatever the rules are of society that he knows that she doesn't because she's just a merchant's daughter and. Right. And so I also, if you're a person who's like, I am not sure I would like, you know, a historical roommates, where do I begin? It feels a little overwhelming. This would be a really great, great romance for you. So I really loved this book a lot. It's an earl like you by Caroline Linden.

[Sarah McLean]

Caroline is great. Another one who like, listen, basically we're, we're giving you a lot of people who like if you've never read them, you're gonna have a great time this summer. This is where we are now. Jen is coming up at the end of her her thing I'm writing. We're just gonna fill your summer reading lists. This week's episode of Fated Maids is sponsored by Avon Books publishers of Ava Ronnie's the Charmer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sarah. Is there anything better than people trying to outwit an inheritance scheme in a romance novel?

[Sarah McLean]

No, there is not because that's just destiny.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So we've got Penelope Chen Astor. She grew up in a very wealthy family in Singapore, but she did not want to live with the kind of stifling expectations that they put on her. So she took off and became a high powered Manhattan lawyer. But when her grandfather dies, familial duty comes crashing down on her life in a big bad way. And the deal is that she's supposed to marry to claim her inheritance. But she doesn't care about that. She is a high powered Manhattan lawyer. She doesn't need his money. But grandfather did something terrible and clever, which is he tied up her mother's assets into it too. And so the only way Penelope can protect her mother is by finding someone to marry. Luckily for her, there's a billionaire hanging around. This is Xander Sutton. He is co founder of an investment group and super charming. But Penelope's always been immune to his charms. But when she's backed into a corner, he sees the opportunity to masquerade as her husband and win her over.

[Sarah McLean]

All right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What's gonna happen when that year comes to an end?

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, I bet I can tell you. If you wanna read this Billionaire who Needs a Fake Marriage, then you can read the Charmer right now in print, ebook, or audiobook. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Ava, Ronnie, and Avon Books for sponsoring this week's episode. Okay, so here's the deal. Spindle Cove happened, but. But before Spindle Cove, there was Elizabeth Boyle's Rhymes With Love series. And I don't think we've talked about Elizabeth on. On the podcast before, but this series is, like, six or seven books, and they're all interconnected, and they're all related to, like. They're all, like, kind of loose retellings of like. Like. Like nursery rhymes. Like, you know. So this one is called Along Came a Duke. And the premise here is that Tabitha has elected to sit on the shelf, okay? And she lives in a small town that is called, I think, Kempton. But the. The idea behind Kempton is that is not that the women there choose to be spinster. It is that they are cursed to be spinsters. Like, no one from this tiny. It's not a town even. It's like a tiny little village. No one in this village, like, survives the Kempton curse. Like, even if somebody does marry, they die. Like, the. The something, like, either, like, the husband disappears or, like, dies or something happens. Like, they definitely do not marry for love. And so this is, you know, fully cursed. So here's the thing. So Tabitha lives with her aunt and uncle in Kempton, and she is very happy to be up on the shelf. They are. She knows that there is sort of, like, there's family money. There's no sort of urgency to marry in this case, but there isn't. Like, she's still a woman, and she doesn't have, like, her fan. Her parents are dead. And at the beginning of the book. Book, she is, like, in town, or she, like, heads to the village and she goes to the blacksmith for some reason. Like, she has a reason to go to the blacksmith, and she gets in there, and there is this, like, absolute rogue of a man holding. I'm interested, like, working the forge, if you will. This is an app. This is not hype. This is. Is. This is an actual forge. He works a different forge later, but he's working the forge, and he's, like, not wearing a shirt. Like, his shirt is open and she can see his, like, dirty pecs. And she's like, no man would ever. No reasonable, respectable man would ever. And he's basically like, honey, do you like what you see? And he's like, very. Look, long story short, extremely high hot. She gives him a kind of real piece of her mind. She's like, how dare. And then. And as she's kind of, like, reading him the riot act for the way that he is, like, being inappropriately, like, leering inappropriately at her, you know, her friends or, like, the people who are around are kind of trying to, like, get her attention and, like, calm her down. And she's like, no, I will not be calmed down by this. Like, you know, look at this brood of a man. Then she goes home and to just. Only to discover that her an uncle, a distant uncle, has died and left her a massive estate. Like, she is wealthy beyond reason now, except in order. We know how this goes, right? This is romance law. Except she has to marry before she turns 25 in order to collect it. And she's like, I'm turning 25 in less than a month. Like, where am I gonna find a man? I live in Kempton. Like, the town is cursed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah McLean]

And her. And, you know, she gets told, oh, like, don't worry about it. Your uncle has actually, like, provided you with a husband. He selected a husband for you. And what's interesting about this is, so he selected a husband for her, and she's like, I guess, okay, fine. But the problem is that husband is like, a very square, very proper husband that's in town named. I think his name is Reginald. Like, you know, her name is Destiny. And the duke. Or no, I'm sorry. And. And she's met this, like, like, rapscallion scoundrel. Ne do well at the forge, who. Jen just happens to be a duke.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, of course, obviously.

[Sarah McLean]

So here we go. So now we have Preston, who also is now, like, oh, who's that hottie? Who, like, I love getting a woman enraged. You know, all these heroes also just love it. They love it when you're pissed at them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, of course.

[Sarah McLean]

They think it's adorable. And so, like, basically, this story is Tabitha and Preston. Like, Tabitha kind of like coming to terms with the fact that, like, Preston is so that, you know, it goes on a little bit longer. Like, nobody tells her that he's a duke. And then, like. And then, like, that she figures it out, but she can't stand him. And, like. And then there's the curse of the town. And Then there's Reginald looming in town. And is she gonna. You know, is she. What's gonna happen?

[Jennifer Prokop]

What's gonna happen?

[Sarah McLean]

What will happen?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Amazing. Okay, listen.

[Sarah McLean]

I love any man who knows his way around a blacksmith shop.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, obviously. Okay, so I'm gonna talk about One for the Rogue by Amanda Collins. Amanda writes a really great historical romance. And these are also really fun. I think some of her more recent ones are even more, like, mystery heavy. But this is an older one that also has, like, a mystery at the heart of it. And One for the Rogue is the last book in the studies and scandal novel. And the scandal of this is I'm about to talk about fossils, but I'm gonna keep it brief. Don't worry. In this book, the setup of the series is that there was a woman named Lady Celeste who. Who died, and then in her will, essentially left money for, like, four. Like, essentially creates almost like a artist in residence, but it's like blue stockings in residence. And so each book has one of these young ladies who essentially gets to spend a year, like, pursuing her scientific interests without worrying about. Right. Like family, which could so easily cut women off from these pursuits. Right. And so I think one is, you know, a mathematician and one's an artist. And in this one, Gemma is a geologist and hero. The hero's name is Cam. And so, you know, as a blue stocking, you're basically on the shelf. But, like, kind of by choice, right? Like, but she's just like, look, no man could compare to. Right. My fossils. No bone compared to these bones. Sorry, I had to do it, okay? I've been saying that joke for 500 years. All right? Anyway, so this. So what happens is she is, I don't know, just, like, out on a walkabout. And this felt very much like a throwback to me to, like, old Amanda Quickbooks because she sees, like, essentially some. I think it's like a lantern or maybe it's like someone pulling a boat up onto the shore or whatever. And she realizes that there is, like, something afoot on the estate. Like. Right. Like something is happening. And so she goes out to, like, sort of see, you know, like, what it is that's happening, and runs into Lord Cameron Lyle. And Cameron is also, I believe, a geologist. And if he is essentially. And listen, I hope this man never. I hope he suffers forever, which is. He is like, a fossil hunter. And she has tried very hard to get him to publish, like, one of her papers in his, you know, little, like, in, you know, with his organization or whatever. Like, Boring fossil hunters in England. Tm. And so he is just like, you know, just doesn't take her seriously because she's a woman. And so what happens is on this, like, hunt for, like, kind of, like, what is going on on with the, you know, are there smugglers or whatever was the strange light. They find essentially a really, you know, amazing fossil. I didn't pay attention to this.

[Sarah McLean]

I have no idea if it was fossils.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I didn't pay attention to the fossils part of it. But they essentially now are in danger together. So, like, the mystery is kind of like trying to figure it out, right? Like, who was in these cliffs and, like, what's going on? And then there's also, like, a dead body, like a murder. So they have to, like, solve the murder, and they're gonna fall in love. And the other part about this is there is like, the kind of on the shelf part is, you know, she's happy to be on the shelf. Like, again, she cares more about fossils than those bones, right? And so. So they get caught. I believe, like, somebody sees them kissing.

[Sarah McLean]

Nice, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And now it's like, now they're right. What are we gonna do? Like, and of course, he's like, you know, there is real enemies to lovers. Like, I would never have anything to do with her. And yet they have found, you know, this. They're in a compromising position, so they're gonna pretend to get married and go and try and essentially solve the murder and figure out what's going on. And I really think that this. It's just a really charming romance. I think, again, it feels like a real classic kind of romance, but, like, with the twist and addition of. Of the murder mystery. And also, just like, I. I really love when they are, like, truly at odds. Like, this man has refused to publish her work because he's a man and she isn't. And her sort of proving to him what a great scientist she is is great. So that's One for the Rogue by Amanda Collins.

[Sarah McLean]

I love it. So I want to talk about Madeline Hunter, because I've been thinking a lot about Madeline Hunter for the last couple of weeks, because she passed away in April. And I'm sorry if this is the first you're hearing of it and you. Like, I thought Madeline was really great. I want to just say I'm going to eulogize her for just a moment because I think she is really vital. She. She had a really vital role at a very particular time in romance, where art. Nobody was funding or researching romance. And Madeline was the Chair of the RWA Academic committee. That was one of the only places where researchers and academics could get funding for their research around romance. And so Madeleine really, like, spearheaded that committee. She was really vital to making sure that at a time when nobody was thinking about romance, like, academics were, who were interested in it, were had a little bit of funding order to do their research. She was also a great writer. She wrote, you know, she had written for many, many years when I met her. She was incredibly kind and really welcoming. I was, you know, 12 and a half years old. I had written my first romance novel. And, like, I had read all of hers. And she was always.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She just.

[Sarah McLean]

She was great. She was a professor and a writer. And I am. I'm sorry that I. I didn't keep in touch with her as. As she aged, as, you know, we aged. But I heard a couple of weeks ago that she passed away. And I'm just. This is me saying I'm really sorry to her friends, her family and her devoted readers, of which some of you probably are, that said, she wrote a book called His Wicked Reputation that I immediately thought of today when I was like, oh, we've never talked about Matt Madeline. And here is a perfect example of, like, an absolute, like, perfectly, like, precise heroine who has a plan for her life that does not involve marriage. She is older. She is. She doesn't have much money. She has, like, it is. It actually sort of has that sort of vibe of the proposition in terms of, like, Wynn being able to, like, somehow retain an amount of reputation by virtue of, like, being descended from, like, a good family line. But Eva, the heroine, is a. She copies paintings. That's. And this is, like, perfect example. Madeline was a historian and, like, her books are really full of these, like, really unique things that, like, of course, like, there are famous paintings at this time, but you can't print them. There's no, like, of course print. And so talented artists would copy, like, you know, it wasn't the Mona Lisa, because that wasn't famous then. But, like, you know, they would see a da Vinci and then they would copy the da Vinci so you could hang a copy of it in your house. So her sort of goal is to, like, amass enough money in order to marry her sister off, like, in a decent marriage. And then, like, kind of like cross your fingers, maybe then I'll be okay too. Right, so in comes Gareth Fitzallen, who is, like, pure again, unadulterated rake. But he is headed to. He is a, like, sort of a risk. He's like, connected to the aristocracy. He's extremely handsome. Sort of. All of Madeline's heroes are sort of legendary pleasure givers, which is terrific everyone. But of course, like, he would never touch a virgin. But he's sort of turned up because there has been been an enormous art theft. And like, he's trying to get to the bottom of like, what's going on with this art theft. And he decides that he's going to seduce Eva and in order to like, gain access to her, like, skill and her. And her, her talents. The issue at this point is that the whole, whole. The whole town is like, oh, Eva, you better watch out. Because he'll like, he'll seduce your sister and then she'll be ruined. Right? Except he doesn't want the sister at all. He's like aiming hard for Eva. And she. This is a great example of one of those heroines who like, knows the score. But like the moment a handsome man gets his hands on her, she is like, adult. Like, she just goes like she's confused. She's like, I feel feelings all of a sudden. And like I. This man in. As Tessa Dare's heroine said, no sane man has ever looked at me this way. Right, Right. And so it's like really, really charming. It's. Madeline loves a plot like this is fast moving. There is, is this like kind of art mystery right through the middle of it. It's all twisty and turny. Gareth is a bastard who's like a bastard son who is. And they're like a bunch of half brothers who then pop up in other. Like, again, Meline knew the job. She knew that like, you were going to come into a book and then want to know, like, the whole world that was in here. And basically you've got these characters, like, you've got these characters kind of like really trying to understand like, who they are in the. You know, I think the, the thing that we didn't talk about at the beginning of this was the other kind of value of this, like, on the shelf piece is being able to kind of unpack the rake. Because often it is this character, right? Like, rarely is somebody on the shelf, except for in Mary Balag's books. Like, rarely is someone on the shelf matched with like, somebody who's like a, like pure, has like a lovely, decent reputation. Like, often it's like, here's a scoundrel arrive to have his entire world upended by this like, mysteriously magical woman on the shelf. And that's what goes on here. Like, Gareth has this like, what he shows the world and then what Eva brings out of him. And it's really beautiful.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Stephanie Rose, author of A Whole New Ball Game.

[Sarah McLean]

Our heroine, Rachel, has her hands full. She is working a pretty demanding job at a PR firm. She is responsible for raising her teenage sister, and the only time she has for romance in any form is the hours she cars out in the evenings writing steamy rock romance novels. And then because of, you know, romance reasons, she ends up in a meet cute with Silas Jones, a recently retired baseball legend who's now a manager. And he's gorgeous, all right, and he's obviously very famous and well put together. But the reality is Silas has a lot of regret and a lot of baggage that he's gonna have to un. Unpack. Of course. We love that, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I love it.

[Sarah McLean]

One magical night between the two of them gives Rachel, you know, the chance to forget everything that she's going on in her real life. It fills the well for the romance novels, and then, boom, fate throws her a curveball and brings them together again through work. And Silas is sort of in it to win it at this point. Except there is a strict no fraternization clause in Rachel's contract. But we all know that if you put a baseball player and a PR person on page, there's gonna be fraternization. Come on, now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, it's inevitable. I do, too. So listen, balls are flying everywhere, and you wanna check them out in a whole new ball game. It is available in print and with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it. You can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Stephanie Rose for sponsoring this week's epis. Okay, I'm gonna talk really quickly about the Wallflowers vs Rogue series by Lenora Bell. And if you. Again, Lenora Bell is, to me, just, I don't know, like, yeah, they're great.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, they are just really fun.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Like a good time. Right. Like, this is, you know, just, like, they're really, like, the dialogue's really snappy. The plots really move. Right. Like, these are really often really fun characters. And in the three heroines of the books essentially decide to, like, form a secret society, and they're all wallflowers, and they're like, it's not for us to get married. I'm just like, we're over it, right? We have our own goals, whatever they are. And in the first one, Beatrice Bentley is the heroine and she has, like, a palsy. Like, when she was born, there was some. Something went wrong, and so she has, like, a little bit of. Of paralysis in her face. And, you know, it just means that, like, you know, her mother or. Right. Like, she's just, like, a little on the outs. Like, she's not perfect. She's not perfect and beautiful and everything else. And so she, meanwhile, is, like, great. Good for me, because I have my own plans, which is. She's working on, like, writing her own dictionary.

[Sarah McLean]

Amazing. Yeah. This is blue stocking.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, right, right.

[Sarah McLean]

Stocking circle.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, exactly. And so. So she is out in. At her, like, brother's mansion, and she's gonna, like, stay there and work on her, you know, her. Her dictionary, because she doesn't have to deal with, you know, being in the ballroom. She's on the shelf, and she likes it there. That's where the books are. Right. She is a total book.

[Sarah McLean]

Well. And she doesn't have to show herself to the world. Right. Like, she reveal anything about herself, not physically. The shelf is really.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, exactly. I think that that's why this is, like, such a good one for this. I mean, the whole series, obviously, is Wallflowers versus Rogues, but, you know, this one is.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, it's Lenora.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's Lenora. Right. But in this one, the hero is. It's a real, like, class difference book. His name is Ford, and he, I think, is. You know, he's in the Navy, but he is essentially at her brother's mansion, like, essentially doing renovations. And so they are constantly, like, sort of running into each other, and she's like. There's a whole, like, shtick in this book where she's always, like, calling him names because. Right. Like, from her, like, dictionary or whatever, like, just, like, really going over the top. And, you know, she just wants to, like, kind of be left alone. And yet here is this, like, kind of beautiful man banging a hammer around, and they seem to just, like, be drawn to each other like magnets. And so I think this is, like, a really great one for just how she has, like, bought into the idea that there is, like, something shameful about her because of this. Of this imperfection and that she has. And she just. You know, Fjord just sees her for who she really is, and she can see beyond the class differences between them and see that he is. Is, like, a great person and that they're a great match. So that's Love is a Rogue by Lenora Bell.

[Sarah McLean]

I forgot to say, when I was talking about Meline, that I found a piece that she wrote for USA Today about spinsters, which we will link in show notes, everybody. But as part of it, she interviewed a bunch of other writers who also wrote books about Spencers. Like, right around that time, you know, do you remember when USA Today was doing that? Like, sort of.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Those are good old days. I.

[Sarah McLean]

It was all awesome. And in it, she references a different book, which I read last night and had a great time with. So she will also recommend it in this. In this article, But I'm going to talk about it now. And that is Michelle Styles's Taming His Viking Woman.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Ooh, I like it.

[Sarah McLean]

This is a different kind of on the shelf. And I was looking. Like I said, I was like, what does it look like in contemporary? Like, how does it look in other ways? And this one kind of like. Like, lives outside of the Venn diagram that I described, because the heroine of this book, Sarod, is a shield maiden. Sure. A Viking shield maiden. And the. The rule with Viking shield maidens is that they are devoted to the Valkyrie. They are like Valkyries devoted to a goddess. Right? The goddess of war. War. And they cannot be married unless a warrior. I'm so delighted by this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

A.

[Sarah McLean]

A Viking warrior defeats them in battle.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, I love it.

[Sarah McLean]

You should just download it and read it right now. You're gonna have a great time. So, okay, here's the deal. So we begin, like, we meet Sarah. Like, she's fishing for trout. Like, she. She's, like, staring down a trout. Tessa Dare style, right? Like. Like, she reaches into the water. She's, like, trying to fish this trout with her bare hands because she's a shield maiden, and she can. And her idiot brother, like, comes running to the lake, is basically like, I got a problem. We need somebody to help. You're the only one who's competent in this family. And he's like, I was supposed to marry this other woman, and she is getting married to somebody else. And Sarah's very practical, and it's basically like, well, who cares? Because the money. The dowry was, like, guaranteed back, like, months ago, so we still get the money, so whatever. Go find another lady. And he's like, no, no, no. But I love her. And she's like, love? I'm a shield maiden. I don't have time for that. And he's like, no, no, no. But, like, I really do love her. And also, I'm pretty sure she's like, she loves me, and she doesn't want to marry this guy, this, like, Viking warrior, King Rolf, with. With An H, everybody. Betty Ralph with an H. So. And. And she's like. And because, like, all of a sudden, now if, like, she's being forced to marry this woman, then Sarah has to get involved, right? Like sisterhood. So off she goes to the longhouse. I'm making this up. I don't even know if it's a longhouse. But you know what? I'm. Everybody's with me. You all know men and fur off she goes to longhouse, where I, Ralph, has been, like, welcomed by, like, the, you know, the family of this woman who her brother is supposed to marry. And he. We cut to his pov, and he's, like, looking at. He's looking at the place, and. And he's like, well, why has nobody introduced me to this woman? To, like, this woman? I'm this bride I'm supposed to take, like. And they're like, oh, she's busy. She's like, in the barn. She's in the whatever. And he's like, what the is wrong with this woman? Like, why won't anybody introduce me to it? And it's obviously because, like, this woman is, like, just a blubbering mess. She doesn't want to marry Ralph. Listen, everybody should want to marry Ralph. I'm just, like, telling everybody. So anyway, in comes Sarah, and she's basically like, hey, fuck wit, you can't just come and marry people who don't want to marry you. And he's like, well, I was told she did want to marry me. And she's like, well, guess what? She doesn't. And I don't want to marry you either. Who would want to marry you?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Me?

[Sarah McLean]

Men. And he's like, oh, my God, I love her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Perfect.

[Sarah McLean]

So basically, he's like, how do I get her? And everybody's like, you can't just. He called. He starts to call her Valkyrie, which, I mean, my beating heart there.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Boom. Right?

[Sarah McLean]

He's like, how do I get her? His, like, second in command is, like, holy. She's tall. Like, it's a whole thing. He's like, I want her. Like, she's the one I want to marry. And everybody's like, you can't marry her. She's a shield maiden. Like. And he's like, so? And they're like, you have to defeat her in battle. And he's like, are you telling me, like, no man has ever tried because he can't fathom the idea that she might not that she might win, right? And they're like, literally no one has ever tried because they all know she'll kick the. Out of them. And he's like, not me. And it's the greatest. That is amazing. I had the best time, like, because obviously he does, like. Then all of a sudden, he does get her. He wins her land, her body, her, like, mind, her everything. But not her heart. Not her heart. Jen. And then it's like, well, what is gonna happen? Because he's, like, taking her whole identity. It's great. It's a really fun read. Harlequin Historical is a bop a bop a bop. It's 200 pages of, like, pure.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Just joy. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Men in fur.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Men in fur. All right, I feel. Sarah, I know you say it, but I feel we've done the job.

[Sarah McLean]

We have. I think we have. I think we have. I have others on my list, but, like, I think we're good. I'll. I'll save them for next time. Okay, Everybody, I'm Sarah McClain Plane. I'm here with my friend Jen Procop, and we are Fated Mates. Come and see us live in person in St. Louis on July 8th. Go to fatedmates.netlive to get tickets. And if you can't see us in St. Louis, but you can see me and sometimes us in other places, head over there. That will also take you to all the information on my book tour, which is in July. I would love to see you. I will have Faded Mates gear with me. I will have stickers and other things, maybe. We are so excited to see you there. Tell us about your favorite Spinsters in historicals. Anybody on the shelf. We want to hear about it. And in the meantime, head to faded mates.net where you can find show notes. Check everything in show notes. Be sure to read that piece from Madeline Hunter and all the other stuff about Madeleine that we put in show notes. And then what else? You can find us on Blue sky, on threads, on Instagram, @fademates.net you can find all the collections that we're building with our friends or that our friends are building for us. Exactly. And that's it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, be right back. Moving to Spinster Cove. Spindle Cove.

[Sarah McLean]

Hope you don't get get cursed in that small town full of ladies.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, it's all going to work out.

[Sarah McLean]

For what kind of curse could it really be? Cursed to never marry. What's that?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Come on. Miss me with that. It's no kind of threat. All right, everybody, have a great week. We love you.

[Sarah McLean]

Bye, Sam.