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Fated Mates - Romance Books for Novel People
S08.06: Gorilla Twins! The Earl Takes All by Lorraine Heath
01:22:44
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, everyone, it's Sarah, and I'm just going to take a quick minute before we start the Gorilla Twins episode, which is going to be an absolute delight to remind everyone that we are still raising money just in the last week or two of the election cycle for state legislative seats in Virginia. This is the first statewide legislative election since last year. It is our opportunity to send a strong and unwavering message to the world that we will not stand everything that's going on in the United States right now. If you have time and inclination to be a part of this, we would love to have you. Any amount of money helps build the Giving Circle community is how we do democracy. So whatever you can give is welcome. And between now and the end of the month, we are running a little bit of a giveaway, a little bit of a incentive system. If you would like to give to the Giving circle head to fatedmates.net/giving circle and 25 people who've given over the course of October. Even if you've already given in October, you'll be entered to win one of 25 copies of Ladies in Waiting, which is the Austin anthology that I'm a part of with Diana Quincy and Eloisa James and Nikki Payne. I will sign that book for you. We will mail it out in November. If that incentivizes you at all. Just click on the chapter title. If your podcasting app supports it, that'll take you to fatedmates.net givingcircle if not, you can head on over and give what you can. $5, $10, $25. Whatever you can give helps fund door knocking, phone banking from get out the vote in these last crucial weeks. And all eyes on Virginia. We believe in you, everyone. Thank you so much for being with us for Fated Mates and for faded states and on. Yay.
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B
How have we not ever done this before?
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A
You know, I'm so thrilled that this is the choice that we. We sometimes make really nice choices.
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B
We do.
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A
We do.
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B
We love ourselves.
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A
We deserve nice things. Our listeners deserve nice things. Romance deserves nice things. And Gorilla Twins is really nice.
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B
Okay, why don't you just, like, lead us into the podcast and then we'll just, like, hit the ground running. I don't even know. There's no banter.
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A
Sometimes when I'm, like, feeling really low, you know, that never happens these days. But when I'm feeling really low and I need just a straight shot of serotonin, I go back to season one and I play the first, you know, 12 seconds of the the Rune podcast. The what the hell is that book called?
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B
Sweet.
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A
What the hell is that book called? Sweet Ruin.
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B
I was literally like, okay. That long pause was me looking at Sarah like, is that a joke or no. What is that book called?
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A
Sweet Ruin. And it begins with just me just being so excited. Yes. And if you, you know, maybe we. We'll put a little. A little link in it in show notes to that podcast so you can go the, like, delight of the beginning of that podcast. I have the same joy right now. Like, it's Gorilla Twins week.
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B
You know, we had a.
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A
We had a tagline for that because everybody, like, that's my favorite of the. Of the immortals After Dark books. And so I would talk about Ruhn, like, the whole season right on.
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B
It's like, once we're gonna.
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A
Can't wait to get to ruin. Can't wait to get to ruin. And so we had a little, like, slogan from which we took from. From 30 Rock, where Tracy Morgan says, live every week, like, it's Shark Week.
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B
And I feel like.
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A
And so we said live every week, like it's Rune Week. And now I feel live every week, like it's Gorilla Twins week.
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B
Can you talk about. Okay, everyone. Recently, Jane Goodall, who in fact, really.
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A
Was an expert, she actually did know about gorillas.
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B
I didn't know about gorillas. Didn't someone send us, like, a DM on Instagram saying that they, like, really hoped that she.
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A
Yes, somebody did. They were like, my dream. Is that. Is that Jane Goodall? Red gorilla twins. Although I think she would have felt that it was like, like, like gorilla slander.
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B
Oh.
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A
So I. We'll get to it. We love Jane, but also I feel like Jane Goodall. Okay, we were talking before we. Everyone, welcome to Faded mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.
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B
And I'm Jennifer Prokop, romance reader. Just, you know what? Pure reader this week. Pure reader.
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A
Exactly.
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B
To reader. We are just gonna wallow in delight.
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A
All we're just pure reader vibes this week. Anyway, right before we started this talking, we were talking about the fact that there is a kerfuffle happening right now in bird.
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B
Oh, yes.
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A
Bird land. Bird. Bird watching threads. Bird Instagram. Bird, I assume Bird talk. I'm not on tick tock, but because there is a Hallmark movie that has come out and it's a romance. A classic Hallmark movie set against the.
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B
Birding well and based on a romance novel by Sarah dubbed.
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A
Oh, it's based on birding with benefits.
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B
Correct?
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A
It is. I did not know that. So, I mean, this changes everything, but it's like.
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B
No, it's actual romance, everybody.
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A
Okay, well, here's the thing. You know how sometimes we do an episode. You guys, we're gonna be all over the place this week because we're so excited about gorilla joints. We're coming back to it, though. Stick with us. You know how sometimes we do an episode where, like, this is romance law.
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B
Yes.
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A
Like, you know, like, you have to get married or you can't inherit, or, like, romance science, like, you know, the hymen's way up in. There's all sorts of, like, romance. You know, you just sort of go with it. There's just romance reasons in all of this. Well, apparently, there is romance birding, because bird talk is just there. There's a lot of concerns about, like, the representation of bird representation is not, like, not birder representation, but, like, actual bird representation in this show, in this movie. So I have not seen the movie. I'm sure it's lovely and. But why am I here? Oh, gorilla. So it feels like gorilla representation. There's, like, a little bit, like, romance animal going out of this book.
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B
I mean, I want to be clear. As far as I'm concerned, all animals in romance are romance animal.
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A
I mean, like, yeah, romance, dormouse, romance.
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B
I mean, like, a romance dog.
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A
Every test dare book. Like, it's just romance animal.
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B
Romance pig lives in the house. Right. I mean, come on.
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A
Never shits anywhere. Just fine.
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B
Totally fine. You know? I mean, the only accurate romance animals and romance books are romance cats, because they can disappear for the whole book, and then it's like, yeah, they're just.
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A
Under a bed the whole time.
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B
They took care of themselves. It was okay. But wait, can I tell you one more thing that's really funny about a really funny Jane Goodall thing that I always remember? Like, I don't know, you ever have those things that will stick in your head forever? When little romance was a baby, like, a baby in daycare. Baby daycare on, like, an infant room. He was at this wonderful daycare in Oakland, and the one of the women, you know, he was often the first one there because I would drop him off on my way to school, and teachers start so early, so he was, like, always, like, the first baby in the door. And these women loved him. I have, like, really fond memories of, like, Gueramena, like, kind of being like. Like. Like, it's just you and me, right? All these things. But there's one woman, and. And, like, my mom had come, and then, like, she, like, Left. And. And, you know, the. The daycare woman who got. I feel it's been a long time.
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I can't remember her name anymore.
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But she was kind of like, I could tell your mother was here because he was using his pacifier more. So I told my husband this. You know, she was kind of upset because, you know, little romance has made some, you know, slide back with grandmother in house. My husband looked at me, and she was like, she's like the Jane Goodall of babies. I mean, and she was like.
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A
I just was like, she's like a baby whisperer.
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B
Yeah, it's like a baby whisperer. Anyway, well, bless the.
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A
Bless the daycare. The good daycare people, because that.
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B
Oh, yeah, right. God worth its weight in gold. And it literally is.
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A
There's a reason why I only had one, and it's that age. I don't ever want to do that again.
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B
Jane Goodall of babies. Like, I just will never forget the way you said it. So anyway, the Jane Goodall of Gorillaz would probably be pretty upset.
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A
Jane Goodall. Jane Goodall. A real. A great person. Yeah, just like a. Did you see. So I didn't know Netflix had this show. Yeah, Netflix has a show where basically, if you're famous, you can go and, like, essentially reveal your burn book to air after you die. Did you know this? It's called Last Words, I think. I don't know. And everybody. This is probably. I'm telling you, basically, like, I know, like, a thimble full of information about this show, and maybe this is not accurate, but it is called Last Words, I think. And Jane Goodall did an episode, and I don't know if it aired before she died, but in my head, I. I think, like, here's how I want it to be.
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B
Okay?
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A
I want to go on a show, record my full burn book, and then die and have it.
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B
And then have it air. Yeah.
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A
Because that's. That's the drama. In fact, everyone knows that I actually do have a burn book on my phone, and it literally says, burn book. Release it when I'm dead. So it's locked, everyone. You can't even. If you stole my phone, you wouldn't be able to get it. It has password. Anyway, so Jane Goodall went on, and she basically just like, she just roasted Trump good. Well. And I was like, listen, this old lady. Yeah, this gentle old lady who spent her, like, lifetime with, like, chimpanzees and gorillas in the jungle literally had something to say to you. Imagine. Imagine being the person Jane Goodall has something to say to. Yeah. I mean, I.
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B
It would never be me. No. Although she'd be like, you guys, this book, it's real wrong about gorillas.
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A
Well, but you know what? I feel that she'd be like, this is romance gorilla.
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B
We are gonna be extra ridiculous today.
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A
Okay. Romance gorilla.
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B
Anyway, good point. Okay.
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A
Gorilla Twins is not the title of the book we're reading.
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B
No. And I'm gonna say what it is because Sarah never remembers. It's the Earl Takes All.
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A
The Earl Does Take all by the great Lorraine Heath.
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B
And this is a book two in the Hellions of Haversham series.
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A
This is one of the few authors we have now done two deep dives with. We've done it. We've done a claypest twice.
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B
Yeah, that's true.
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A
And here.
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B
And this is why Elizabeth Phillips, too, I guess, recently. Yeah, we did. We did one from. We did one for. In season two. And then we did Natural Born Drama recently.
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A
Oh, we did. Yeah. Well, so, I mean, this is the level we're playing at, truthfully. Like, if you are a historical reader and you have never read Lorraine Heath, you're doing historical wrong. And if you are a romance reader and you have never read Lorraine Heath, you're doing romance wrong. And I said what I said, and I think she's great. I think she is top five of all time.
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B
Yeah.
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A
The other day I read a book that's not coming out until next year, so I'm not going to talk about it because I know that that sucks. Like, when I say, like, I read this book and it was amazing and it's not coming out till next year, so I'm not even going to give you the name of it. But it was so romantic. And I think there's something, like, going on right now where, like, I haven't read a, like, truly deeply romantic book.
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B
In a long time.
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A
Like, I've read books that are sexy and books that, like, are fun and books that have romance in them, but, like, really just, like, achingly romantic. That's. That's a hard order. Yeah. To fill. Lorraine hits it every time.
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B
This week's episode of Fated Mates was brought to you by Sharice Michaels, author of Claiming the Princess.
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Yes, Princess Danielle Allard Dolem grew up believing that she was just a simple village girl.
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B
Jen.
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A
She thought she was raised in Kent by surrogate parents. Instead, her simple life vanishes when she discovers she is actually a princess in hiding. And to make it all worse, parentheses better. Her first order of royal business is to marry a war hero she's never met. Captain Luke Bannack was not trying to become a hero, and even less so a husband. But when he shows selfless courage in a fierce naval battle and the Crown offers him a reward for valor, he chooses the hand in marriage of an obscure princess living in exile because.
- [13:38]
B
It.
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A
Will give him revenge against his sworn enemy. Historical romance remains unmatched. What begins as an arranged marriage between a village girl and a cynical sea captain evolves into a dance of passion and discovery. And Luke has to help Dany reckon with her secret royal blood. And he's gonna fall in love with her, despite the fact that he's supposed to use her for revenge. And then he's gonna be all torn up about which one he wants more. But we know it's gonna be love because he's a dummy and Sheris knows the job.
- [14:14]
B
So if you listen, part of this book is also epistolary. So what that means is what this whole book was like created in a lab for you. So if you are interested in reading about claiming the Princess, it is available for pre order and it is will be available in print, ebook or audio. If your podcast supports it. You can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to pre order the book. Thanks to Share Smart Michaels for sponsoring this week's episode. So let me do the plot summary really quick for those of you who have not had the pleasure. And listen, I would like to say this book was in my vault for a long time. I recently reread it for the first time maybe a year or two ago, I can't remember. And then reread it this week to prepare to do Gorilla Twins. Because it's not like one of those books that's like hardwired into me.
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A
And what a gift.
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B
Oh God, I had a. You know what? I will also say I might have had a better time the second time around. Yes, that's better. Yeah.
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A
Because I felt like you're less stressed.
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B
Well, yes. So somebody actually.
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A
I'm sorry, somebody just posted to Instagram like yesterday. They were like, I finally am reading Gorilla Twins because of Faded mates and I've never been so stressed in my life. And yeah, you are left stressed.
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B
Yeah. You know, also this really sweet Amy in our discord said, okay, for serious as a twin. Gorilla Twins is an existential crisis that everyone else thinks is fun. And I was like, yeah, okay, Amy, sorry. We love you. Okay, so. Okay, so Gorilla Twins, the Earl Takes all starts off with a prologue where Edward, Edward has a twin brother, Albert, and Albert is newly engaged to Julia, and Edward has been attracted to her, too. And he goes out into the garden and he sees her by himself. And he sort of. She turns around, she thinks it's him. He can't resist temptation. And he kisses her. And then he's so, like, swept away in the romance of this kiss. And he's young. I mean, he's like 23, that he. And essentially then she's like, I love you, Albert. And he says, oh, you love him so much, you can't even tell the difference between us.
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A
Right. A brutal burn.
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B
Brutal. And of course, you know, in typical man fashion, he does it because he's like.
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A
He's so. He's.
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B
Yes.
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In love with her.
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B
I'm so in love with her, I have to hurt all of us. Right?
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A
She loves his twin brother.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So terrible.
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B
Right? So we pick up.
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So great.
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B
Yeah, we pick up four years later, and Edward, now, what had happened to is he's also kind of pissed because he and Edward and Albert in the prologue were supposed to go away on a trip together, and Albert has pulled out, kind of being like, I don't want to do it. I want to be with Julia instead. And so this kind of pisses Edward off, and it's confrontational for a lot of reasons.
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A
Right.
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And it's really clear that what he feels is, like, both, like, I'm really attracted to her, but also this woman is going to steal my brother from me, my twin brother. So we pick up four years later when Edward has talked. Had. Had essentially talked Albert in with Julia's this time kind of approval on going on, like, safari with him. And he is now returning home. She is, like, eight months pregnant. So kind of the idea of the trip was go while she's pregnant and then, you know, come back. Listen, there's a lot of romance reasons in this whole business, but whatever, just.
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A
The tee up is a little romance reasoning. It's fine.
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B
Yeah. Come back, you know, and then you'll, you know, you'll come back and you'll have essentially had this, like, trip of a lifetime, and then you'll be able to, like, really recommit to, like, kind of being a dad.
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A
But when they leave, they know that she is pregnant.
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B
Yes, you're right. Exactly. And she.
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A
It's not like, surprise, I'm pregnant.
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B
Right. And she had had a few miscarriages. And so it's really interesting, like, that part of it, too, in, like, previous miscarriages was almost like, I. I don't. You know what why he left when she'd had a bunch of miscarriages. Again, romance reasons, we're just gonna go with it. So anyway, Edward has returned home with the body of Albert in a casket. But because they do not know if she is carrying a boy or a girl on his death forest floor, Albert said to Edward, be me.
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Go home, be me, and pretend to be me. Because we can't have her lose the baby. Because everyone knows guerrilla attack equals miscarriage on another continent. That's just science.
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B
As soon as you heard the story, you just, you know, bam. So anyway, Edward is like, this is a horrible idea, but this is also my brother's dying wish, final wish. And so then, like, what happens is, of course, he engages in this deception.
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A
But I just want to underscore here that the deception requires Edward to be dead. Like, there is a body. There is a body. One of them died and one of them didn't. And so Edward comes home to honor his dying brother's last wish. And, like, there's no getting out of this.
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B
No, this is.
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A
Right, listen, this is why romance is fantastic. And Lorraine Heath does it better than most of us because literally, from this moment, you're like, how the. How does this work?
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B
Are you gonna get out of this? Yeah, exactly.
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A
There's no getting out of it. That is a dead bot. An actual real dead body. Everybody, like, this is not a. Oh, surprise, right? They're alive the whole time. He is dead.
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B
So anyway, like, the whole book is essentially kind of two parts. One is, how are they going to get out of it? And two, when is she gonna find out? Right. So we're gonna get to that part. But I want to point out that there's a lot of things that this setup is allowing her to do. And I wish. And this book is from. I really. It's funny, I thought this book was like, 2000 and the 2000s, 2016.
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A
Yes.
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B
And I really would have loved to go back in time and be a fly on the wall, because she must have spent an inordinate amount of time working out the setup that would allow the plot to unfold the way it does. And I am talking about this at many levels. And. And everybody, I think this is going to be a book where we obviously.
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A
Have a lot of fun and talk.
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B
About how great this book is, but also talk about, like, the. The. The world building of this conflict is so key to having this book work out. Right? So what you have is a couple of different things. One is you have a British law, an English law that says a. A Widow cannot marry her husband's brother. Right?
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A
That's incest by law.
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B
Yes, by law.
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A
That's not the case anymore, everybody. But it was back then, right?
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B
So. So this is by law.
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A
So, I mean, really, what you're articulating at this point is all the ways that these two can't be together, aside from the original way, which is at some point, she's gonna figure this out, and he's not her husband, and he's been pretending to be her dead husband, and she has. Who she has not grieved.
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B
Yes.
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A
Like. Okay, so, like, bar. Like the bar is that holy. This can't work out. But then on top of it, I.
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B
Think the other thing is, right, you.
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A
Can'T marry your dad, your dead husband's brother.
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B
Correct. You. He's been hiding this huge. Not just like a lie from you, but a lie that means you're. Again, you're not grieving your dead husband. The question of who, if she does have a son versus having a daughter. Right?
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A
Because is it like there's an heir situation here? Correct.
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B
Right.
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A
Because if she has a daughter, then it's sort of okay.
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B
Yes. Well, no.
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A
Either way, it's okay. But he's not. He's. There is the issue is that the.
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B
The.
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A
The hero, Edward.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Is now pretending to be an Earl.
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B
Yes.
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A
He is actually also the Earl. Everyone, this is.
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B
Okay.
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A
The people who don't read historicals are like, what the. Okay, there's the inheritance piece of it, all. Right? Which is Albert is Earl. Oh, my God. Her name just, like, flew out of my. Julia.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Albert is Earl. Julia is pregnant. If she has a boy, she is having the Earl. She's a girl. She's not. She is not. Like, Right, fine. However, Edward. Albert is dead now, and Edward is pretending to be Albert the Earl, but Edward is actually Edward the Earl because he has inherited the. He will have inherited the earldom, unless Julia has a boy, in which case he's stolen the earldom by virtue of pretending to be Albert, when in actual fact, Albert's son would be the actual Earl, and he would just be nobody.
- [23:36]
B
Yeah. Now, okay, so there's all that. Then you have the question of this kiss that they shared all these years ago and what it means kind of between them, Right?
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A
It is a great big. A big dramatic kiss. And he's like, you liked it? And she's like, I hated it. And we're all like, excuse me, you liked it.
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B
Right? And she, for the first time in her life, had been alone and really, like, realized like, how much she sort of enjoyed making decisions for herself. So there's sort of this, like, this, like, level of, like, self discovery that she has gone on.
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A
Because she doesn't hate Albert. Like, there's not. It's not a bad marriage. She loved her husband, right.
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B
But she still got. She was 19 when she was married. She was young. She'd never had a chance to have her own money, make her own decisions, do whatever. So, you know, she's been on some sort of, like, journey of self discovery, too. And then the other part that is think incredibly smart. And you don't realize how smart it is until the end is the book opens with a funeral. And so, like, Edward kind of is, like, weird to be at your own fucking funeral. And people are kind of like, yeah, I was kind of got up to no good. But it's also. It was a small funeral, mostly friends and family. His friends know immediately like his. There was a. He and Albert had two other friends. These are like the heroes of the other books in the series. And they're basically like, what the fuck are you doing? You're not Albert. You're Edward. What is going on? So there's a ticking clock in the sense that, like, if somebody has already.
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A
Figured it out, it's not an entire secret.
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B
Right.
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A
Although he doesn't admit it right away, does he?
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B
Well, they pretty quickly. I mean, they're like, you are not even pull. You know, Edward unlike. So Albert is deaf in one ear, and he had like, a kind of physical tick where he would, like, pull his ear.
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A
You're missing my face, everybody, but.
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B
Right.
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A
Albert is. Death in one ear is very important.
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B
It's gonna be a part of the plot later. So they're like, you know, you're not. We can tell by. You lack this mannerism that is so distinctive in Albert. Right. But I think the other part is they are then, once the funeral is over, alone on this estate. And this is an estate that the Edward and Albert essentially didn't grow up in because they also were orphaned at a young age and that. But Albert desperately wanted to raise his children on this estate. And so you're kind of like, okay, it's just the family estate. So they're alone.
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A
Right.
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B
They get to sort of make.
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A
Oh, she's so good at putting them in a phone booth.
- [26:23]
B
Yes. But you don't even almost realize that they. They. You as the reader and they as the characters, don't really realize what the phone booth has allowed them to do. Sort of the lies they've Been able to tell themselves about how this is all going to work out until we, you know, end up at London at the end. So the whole. And I think the reason I'm, like, really belaboring this setup is as an editor, I said I was just gonna be a reader. I guess I lied. I feel like a lot of people come up with, like, a great idea. Hey, like, what if.
- [26:53]
A
How on earth is this gonna work?
- [26:54]
B
Yeah, what if twin. What if one twin died and the other twin said, take my place, and then they just, like, run with it without really doing the work that it sometimes requires to think about? Well, how would you get them there? How would one. How would this be something one twin would even say to the other? Under what circumstances would you have it be believable that the wife doesn't recognize him while they've been apart for five months already and he's been traveling? So, you know, he's more muscular. He's been walking more. He's more sun bronze. He's been, you know, there's. You know, the sun is different.
- [27:31]
A
It's.
- [27:31]
B
So there's all these ways in which, like, you kind of get the plausibility of, you know, he seems different, but she just kind of chalks it up to this. These travels that they've been on. So that, I think, is the thing about this story where you're really, like, okay, this is all completely bonkers. But she does a lot of work, an incredible amount of work to tie that all up before the funeral is even over.
- [28:03]
A
Yeah.
- [28:03]
B
And I think that's what makes, for me at least, the book very successful, is a real commitment to the bit, you know what I mean?
- [28:11]
A
A thousand percent. When we talk about taking the finger on the podcast, right? Like, we talk about, like, the writers who just write with, like, complete fearlessness. I am hard pressed to think of somebody who does that better than Lorraine Heath. And the reason why I say that is because at every turn, and I say this when I teach classes, when I write myself, like, when I talk, when I, like, call my friends, and I'm like, I'm stuck, right? Like, I try really hard to always choose the path that will make it worse, right? Like, because conflict, for me, conflict is essential to a romance novel. You know, the guiding principle of when we. When we look at romance is, you know, why can't they be together? Right? Because that's the whole plot of any romance novel is like, they can't be together. They can't be together. They can't be together. And now and Then they can't. Right. And what Lorraine does is she layers in so many answers to this question from the jump. And then as the book progresses, more layers are added. There is a moment, you know, late in the book where the death of Albert is revealed, like under. Where it. It becomes obvious what. What happened. Like when Edward comes back and he's pretending to be Albert, he sort of tells the story of Albert's sort of Albert's death. And then. And so everybody sort of believes that it happened in one particular way. And then at the very end, there's this kind of additional layer of how it actually really happened and it makes everything harder again. There are insurmountable odds from the jump. And then Lorraine's like, oh, no, you didn't even get to like, Camp two on Everest. We're still going. This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by Sotto Voce Sense, a Canadian handcrafted candle company.
- [30:18]
B
Okay, everybody, these are inspired by romance and that is really all you need to know. So these candles have great names and the, you know, I mean, if you've ever been like, what is sandalwood smell like? This is the candle company for you. So these candles. So for example, there is a candle called Rosemary Me, a grand gesture scent, which is citrus, rosemary, earth and musk. There's scoundrel wood, formerly so many Sebastians, leather, bourbon and sandalwood with a hint of vanilla and tobacco.
- [30:55]
A
That's like a Sarah Maclean here.
- [30:56]
B
I know for all those notorious scoundrels out there in. In romance and then cabin fever. A snowed in scent. Smoke, tea, ginger and woods for a cozy scent you'll be happy to be trapped in with. And on the website, which is sto voce sense.com you can see these have a really pleasing shape. So it has a rounded bottom, like sort of inside of the glass, Right? Like shape.
- [31:20]
A
A pleasant romance heroine.
- [31:24]
B
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- [31:27]
A
Some of these myself. You can visit Sotto Voce Sense right now at Sotto Voce S O T T O V o c e sense.com this is a Canadian candle company and so they have worked up a magic figure and are offering Faded mates listeners a 25 off discount using the code FATED mates 2025 to offset Canadian US tariffs until the end of the year. Hopefully that will be all it takes to offset Canadian tariffs through the end of the year. Again, it's sotto vocents.com and you can use the code faded mates 2025 for 25% off your order if your podcasting app supports it. You can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Soto Voce Sense for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [32:30]
B
For me, reading the. For first time and even the second time, I was kind of like, okay, when's she gonna find out? When's she gonna find out? Right? Like, I just feel like this is, like, so much like a logical question. When is she gonna discover what's the right timing? What is the right timing? The plot wise? Because you would think that this would essentially, like, let all the air out of the balloon, right? Like, once she discovers it, the book is over. Once she discovers it, the book is halfway over, right? It is literally. I think literally. I was paying attention. I think it's literally the fifth. Well, because there's no right.
- [33:08]
A
Yeah.
- [33:09]
B
And I think so, like, so I want to maybe talk about the book in halfs because it is really interesting to think about, like, what is going on. So in the first half, right, like, he comes home and his only concern really is, like, I think my job is to make sure that she is. Doesn't get upset and has the baby safely.
- [33:32]
A
And he intends to tell her after the baby is born.
- [33:35]
B
He really.
- [33:36]
A
He is on the up and up at the beginning of this book, right? He's like, she's gonna hate me, which is gonna break my heart, because I've loved her for years.
- [33:44]
B
Right.
- [33:45]
A
But, like, this is the goal. Healthy baby.
- [33:48]
B
Yes. And everything I'm being asked to do here.
- [33:51]
A
And nobody thinks about what will happen if there's. If it's a boy, like, literally.
- [33:55]
B
No, no. Right, Exactly. Even though she's sort of convinced it's a boy, right? So he says. He's just like, okay, this is literally, you know, my job. And it is torturing him because he's in love with her. Yeah, he's in love with her. And he knows that it's wrong, Right. He knows at some level it's wrong. But he loves his brother, and his brother said, be me. And I think that's another really key part that I was paying attention to this time is, like, the weight of this request on Edward. He's right. Being tortured by the memory of the brother he loved and also by lying to this woman he loved.
- [34:40]
A
Loves a thousand percent.
- [34:42]
B
I liked it. I like that he was tortured, I'm not gonna lie to you.
- [34:45]
A
Oh, tortured from the jump. Well, we're also sort of jumping all around, but, like, this arguably has the best chapter one of all romance novels. Because, I mean, it is arguable. There are a lot of great chapter ones. But the beginning of this. This book begins with Edward. Well, there's a prologue that is, like, right. However many years ago. But, like, he comes back and he's like, I'm at my own funeral. And everybody's just kind of like, hey, thank God it was your brother.
- [35:16]
B
Right?
- [35:16]
A
Like, thank God Edward died. Like, what a jerk. He was like, what a. Really glad that you didn't die, Albert. And he's like, oh, my God. Like, everybody.
- [35:30]
B
Everybody.
- [35:30]
A
Like, I. My life has. Is not. Was not of value. Like, nobody thought I was a good person.
- [35:42]
B
Yeah. And I think the thing is, like, this is important because he sort of also. Right. Like, so it's. What's really interesting is I had a lot of really interesting thoughts about, like, reputation when I was reading this book. And it's like, there's your reputation with the people in the world. Right? Like, nobody thought I was a good person. But I think in this moment, what he really realizes is, like, but I still have to live with myself. And if I have been asked to do this by my brother, who was the good one, right. Then surely I should do it because he wouldn't make a mistake like that. Right? So the setup at every level is really showing Edward trying to essentially, like, to live up to the kind of man his brother was. And yet, as you are reading, there are all of these really subtle ways that, like, yeah, of course Albert was a good person, but there's a lot of really subtle ways that Edward is better at taking care of Julia. Right. And of taking care of people in general. That being. Not being the heir made him more attentive to people in ways that, like, Albert never had to really think about. And so, like, that's the other thing, too, is him, like, sort of being a good person just for. Because he can be. And never having received any credit for it, it's really. I think it's extraordinary, the journey that he goes on.
- [37:17]
A
Yeah, it's a real, like, brave book for a writer to write. Like, there's a lot here that. That feels insurmountable. And I think that that's when I say, like, really when I said at the beginning, like, Lorraine is so good at being romantic. Like, I think in the hands of a lesser writer, and that is most writers, like, it would be virtually impossible to overcome. You lied to me and pretended to be my dead husband. Like, it. It's so heartbreaking in a lot of ways, Right?
- [37:55]
B
Yeah, Because.
- [37:57]
A
And but what she does is she makes it even. She dials up the heartbreak by having made Julia realize that, like, this new husband returned from his journey is really. Like, she loves him even more.
- [38:16]
B
Yeah.
- [38:17]
A
And so you are. It is just. You are broken by it.
- [38:22]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [38:23]
A
Because, you know, the baby comes.
- [38:27]
B
Well, and there's. I will say this. There's escalating. Like, they're kissing. They're sleeping together in the same bed. Right. He's trying really hard to sort of.
- [38:36]
A
Like, he wants to, like.
- [38:37]
B
Yeah, she wants to. Yeah. But he's like, we promised ourselves that we wouldn't do that before the baby was born. Like, of course. Right? These, like, kind of fears that, you know, this is what caused her to lose it and lose the baby in previous times. And so, you know, sort of. He has this, like. Sort of safety of this. But, like, they are making out everywhere all the time.
- [39:01]
A
Oh, yeah. And she is a little dirty talker.
- [39:05]
B
But she always does it. It is a bad ear because she.
- [39:10]
A
Knows he wouldn't approve. He can't hear. It's so good.
- [39:17]
B
I think it's also interesting. Like, she says. What did she say that she read. Was it Lady Chatterley's Lover? No. Is that what. No, no, she said she read something to that. I was like, it's something, you know, she read something sort of salacious. And she, you know. And it's all of Edward's books, right? She was like, I, like, snuck around and read some of the stuff that he was reading. And, you know, Edward's like. You know, Edward at that point, can't help but be himself, but think it's, like, sexy to see her becoming a more interesting person. Right. To be less confined by the strictures of society for women of her time, whatever those were. And that is something that's like, really, you know, she has been taking up watercolors, and she has been painting these kind of, like, woodland creatures as characters. And he is so charmed by them. And you can really tell that, like, she. Although she loved Albert, there was still a lot of, like, rules in their marriage that she was following. And somehow. So she sort of, at least at the time, chalks itself. Chalks up to, like. Well, he was on an adventure, too. He also changed. And now we're just gonna, like, I thought I knew everything about him, and now I'm gonna know we're gonna know each other better and differently, but instead it's really. No, you're knowing Edward better and differently. Oh. And of course, the whole time he's Tortured. And all he wants to do is kiss her.
- [40:50]
A
This is the best. The scene where, God, I mean, because after the baby's born, right, Like. Like he's. Then it's worse, right? Because it's like now he has to make up, like, other reasons why they can't. Because he won't tell her. Like, he won't. Because he's. He knows the moment he tells her, it's over.
- [41:08]
B
Yeah. Now that I will say there's like the scene where she gives birth is. Was really interesting to me in two ways. One is he insists on being in there, right? The doctors and are like, midwives are like, get out. This is your business. He's like, no, I'm gonna be here. You know, because he knows what she's been through before. But then the minute the baby's born and it's a girl, Alberta. And he insists, no, we're gonna. Because she wants to name the baby after Edward. And he's like, no, we're gonna name her after her father. And there's all these times he sort of like, refers to himself, she thinks in third person. They call her Ally.
- [41:40]
A
And he.
- [41:41]
B
It's really heartbreaking. Like, basically like, leaves the house and goes to like the family mausoleum and gets. That's wasted, you know, just. He cannot. It's like he's done now. He's fulfilled his promise to his brother. But it means, like, letting her go. And he just like, he's in love with her and the baby. It's like the angst is really God tier.
- [42:05]
A
The girl part actually, like, unlocks something because it makes it so that Edward has not been faking being the Earl. Right? Like he has not. Because everybody. By the way, that's a pretty serious, serious offense. That can be it. I don't know what the timing of this book is, but, like, it's a hangable offense in. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you to fake. I mean, I would. I don't.
- [42:33]
B
Yeah. So this, the prologue is 1858. So that means these events are 1862. 1863.
- [42:41]
A
Yeah. It's not a hangable offense by then because capital punishment is basically like non existent by then.
- [42:46]
B
But the. Oh, no. 1878. Sorry, sorry.
- [42:48]
A
You know, it's still. It is a crime. Like you. You could go to prison. Like there. There are other ways that you could be punished for basically faking being an Earl, because that is divine.
- [43:01]
B
Right?
- [43:02]
A
And you can't mess with God. So the girl sort of makes it a little bit easier because he's been Earl the whole. The whole time. However, it still is a problem again, aside from all the ways that it's just like a moral problem. It's a problem because they cannot marry like they cannot. There is no law under. There's no version of British law, of English law, UK law, at this point where you can marry, your husband's dead. Your dead husband's brother.
- [43:39]
B
This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Elizabeth Rube, author of the collective fiction, His Duchess's Lovers.
- [43:47]
A
So this is a collection of six historical erotic novelettes, all featuring Julia, Duchess of Aswell, and her very bored, kind of full of malaise, has seen everything husband, Lawrence. Julia is annoyed that she's not getting enough action from Lawrence, and so she. She tells him very casually over breakfast one morning that she plans to take some lovers. And he responds in his sort of very bored, kind of rakish way. Yes, yes, that's fine. Except he realizes that pretty quickly that he has designs on a political career. So he'll make Julia an offer, which is he will help make sure that his wife is being the perfect discreet lover. He's not going to get involved. He won't make relationships, requests for her body. He'll never make demands, but he is going to just like hang around and make sure that she keeps it all under wraps so that she doesn't threaten his future. Well, soon she's the most popular lady in London. And in these six novelettes, she is lavished with attention by Lawrence's best friend, a notorious baron, a masked secret society of men. She's caught between a stud and her own husband in kind of a sharing sense situation. And all the while, Lawrence's lust for her just grows and grows and grows. So this story unfolds over six novelettes, ranging from trained by her husband's best friend to taken by her groveling husband, to shared by the grand bucks to the widower and the wet nurse. And honestly, I'm delighted.
- [45:32]
B
I think we all are delighted. So, everyone, if you would like to check out this collection, His Duchess's Lovers, it is available in print, ebook or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. And if you click on the chapter title right now, you can be taken to buy the book. Thank you to Elizabeth Roubaix for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [45:54]
A
And I, I will say this, I.
- [45:56]
B
Did not feel impatient as I was reading part like the first half. Yeah, I was sort of curious, right? I was like, how is this all gonna turn out? So he had promised himself he would tell her when the baby's. But he cannot bring himself to tell her because he's in love with her, and he's in love with this fucking baby.
- [46:14]
A
And so now he loves the baby.
- [46:16]
B
And now he loves the baby. And so the intensity of this moment, like, they are, like, making out. And she's like, I really want to do it. I should say that she'll say whatever she says, right? And they're, like, down in, like, a parlor or something. And he's like, all right, well, like, let's go to my bed. All right. I mean, I think he sort of surrendered to it at this moment, because.
- [46:35]
A
What he can't, like. Well, they were playing billiards, and she said something. She. I mean, like, Julia is unlocked by Edward's texts. She is like a vicious dirty talker. And also, like, at the billiards table, she is like. She watches the cue, like, in his fingers, and she's like. She's like, that's, you know, very erotic. And he's like, oh, my God. Like, you have to stop. Why are you. And then she, like, lifts her skirts and shows herself to him and is like, I'm healed.
- [47:05]
B
Yeah. Yeah, let's go. The other thing, though, is at this point, poor man.
- [47:09]
A
How could he.
- [47:09]
B
Well, but he has. What he has decided is, I'm just gonna pretend to be Albert for the rest of my life. Like, it's worth it.
- [47:18]
A
By this point, his friends all know, and they're like, what the man?
- [47:22]
B
Right? Because they had just been there for. For Christmas. So, like, the baby is born. They'd been there for Christmas. And what he has decided is, like, this is worth it to me. I will just pretend to be my brother for the rest of my life because it means that I will be able to have her. And so he's gonna take her upstairs because he now is ready to essentially commit hell anyway. Right. Right.
- [47:43]
A
Might as well.
- [47:44]
B
He's like, so listen, if this is what I'm gonna do, then I can't hold her off any longer. She's starting to think I don't want her. And of course, she's all I want. And then, you know, they're in bed together, and, I mean, I guess you've made it this far. Yeah. Little dirty talker whispers something in. In his ear, and he's basically like, you dirty girl. And she immediately, he knows, realizes, because this is. She's been whispering in his bad ear as a pretext for, you know, years at this point. And she. Oh, God, it's devastating. Like, just, like, runs from the room.
- [48:22]
A
She gets it. She's brilliant. I mean, she gets it right away.
- [48:25]
B
Right away. Runs immediately to the mausoleum and is basically like, my husband is dead. Yeah.
- [48:33]
A
I mean, what a. Yeah, what a thing. Like, I mean, when I say brave, like, this book, every page, you're like, how. How is she gonna pull this off?
- [48:46]
B
Yeah, it's.
- [48:48]
A
It's really like a masterpiece in conflict. It is a. If you are out there, and I know a lot of you feel this way. Like, I know if you are a writer, there are so many writers right now who are like, I'm not good at conflict. Like, and, like, nobody's as good as a conflict as Lorraine is. But, like, if you are, like, how. How do I layer it? How do I do it?
- [49:12]
B
This.
- [49:13]
A
This is the book. Like, because nobody's asking you to write Gorilla Twins, and you won't be able to, but you can see the structure of it. The way she takes internal conflict, layers it with external. And, like, any time there's even a ounce of resolution, it makes everything more complicated.
- [49:34]
B
Well, that's the part that I think is so brilliant, because here you are, you're halfway through the book. You're like, okay, well, now she knows. And you think you know what's going to come next, right? You think what's going to happen is, okay, they'll be. She'll be mad at him for a while, she'll forgive him, and then, you know, that'll be that. And instead it's. They are still in this huge pickle of, like, how are they going to tell the truth? Right? So now she knows, and she won't.
- [50:00]
A
Talk to him for a while, which, I mean. Cold storage, Right, Exactly.
- [50:05]
B
Actually, I did highlight this part because I really. I hate to say that I laughed, right? But she says to him, right. I hate you, she said, her scratchy voice filled with the pain of loss and betrayal. And he says, I know. And then it says, but no more than, he hated himself. And I was like, yes, that is, in fact, how you should feel. Right? He hates himself. He did exactly what he was asked to do there. He couldn't think of a way around it, but he knows he still hurt her. And so he goes out, right? Like, and at some point, they, like, sort of. He's like, you have. We have to at least talk through what we're going to do. Because he realizes that if they tell the truth, that she will be looked upon as a pariah. Yeah.
- [50:54]
A
She'll be ruined because they've been living together alone.
- [50:58]
B
Right.
- [50:59]
A
I Mean, every, when I say every fucking moment, Lorraine picks the harder version of this, this book.
- [51:07]
B
Like, yeah, yeah. I think the other thing I really admired at this point in time too was how much time Lorraine gives this story to unfold. The brother, you know, Albert, they were supposed to be gone for three months, they're gone for four. So she's closer to her due date. And then she's like a little early. And so, you know, at the point where he, they finally figure it out, right? Like she's ready to have sex again or whatever. She says to him, it's been six weeks, you know, he's like, I was going to tell you after the baby's born. She's like, it's been six weeks. What the were you waiting for? She doesn't say that, that was me saying that. But, you know, she thought that. And so then, right. He says, well, you know, I guess I was thinking we would, you know, we don't have. She's like, you're gonna have to send a email to the Times of London, whatever. An email. Send a tick tock, right?
- [51:57]
A
That's exactly what happened.
- [51:58]
B
And that's.
- [51:59]
A
And he's like, that's history.
- [52:00]
B
Yeah, romance history. Email existed when you needed it. You know, you're gonna have to send a letter and explain what happened. He's like, well, I think we could probably wait until the season now at this point. I was like, probably for the first time ever was like, oh, the season starts in May. I had no idea.
- [52:19]
A
Yeah, right.
- [52:21]
B
So here it is. It's six weeks after the due date. It's January still, right? Like he's, there's now months and you know where they're gonna have to like. I mean, it's literal cold storage, right? Be in this sort of like face off, this standoff of her, her grief, right? And I did really. I think the other thing I really respected was how much that there is time for her to grieve. It's not like she's like, great, let's smash, right? She's like, no, I'm heartbroken. I loved your brother and now what the fuck are we doing? And the way that she kind of softens towards him is every day he sends her a letter at 2pm that says, I'll be in the nursery till half past. And he goes in and holds the baby and tells her like the story that he's made up about the character she's been painting in her watercolors. And she sneaks up and listens and I gotta tell you I was like, oh, Lorraine made me like a baby in a book. God damn it.
- [53:24]
A
This is.
- [53:24]
B
I know.
- [53:25]
A
This is Jen's nightmares.
- [53:27]
B
Oh, my God. Like a baby.
- [53:33]
A
So then there is the other layer of this, which is where I have to proselytize about historicals, which is Switzerland, right? So whenever anybody's like, oh, historicals, like, they're just wallpaper. Nobody does any research. Listen, from the. At the very beginning of this book, like, when he imagines that. When he, like, sort of flashes back to the death of Albert, right.
- [53:59]
B
Holding.
- [54:00]
A
And he's very. The flashbacks are all very sort of like, careful, they're not long. There's like a line here and there. Like, we don't get the whole story. Like. Like, we don't know what's happening, but we know that Albert's last words to Edward were, take her to Switzerland. And he's like, why? Why. Why would that be? Like, why would that be relevant, like, in this moment? And then when it's all sort of the. Has hit the fan, and his friends, Edward's friends are like, so you marry her so you. Like. So you do this. Like, just do it. And he's like, I can't. Like, the law is very clear. We can't do that. Like, aside from she would be ruined because, like, if I don't marry her, she'll be ruined. But if I do marry her, our children will be bastards and illegitimate, and, you know, we, like, will be pariahs because it's incest. And one of the friends goes, well, why don't you take her to Switzerland? And me, I'm like, what the is happening in Switzerland? And then Edward's a little bit like, what the is happening in Switzerland? Turns out Switzerland doesn't have that law. So if they go to Switzerland, they can marry and it's fine.
- [55:19]
B
Right. And then the marriage will be recognized.
- [55:21]
A
Right.
- [55:22]
B
It happens.
- [55:22]
A
And there's something very beautiful about this because what it actually speaks to is that Albert knew all along.
- [55:28]
B
Yes, right.
- [55:29]
A
Like, that ultimately these two did care for each other.
- [55:34]
B
Right? Yeah. He'd sort of figured it out.
- [55:36]
A
And it's been.
- [55:36]
B
It was really interesting. There's, like, a lot of, like, legal layers that come into play in part two. And, like, one is that, like, at one point he says, I can't find Albert's will. And it's impossible for me to sort of believe that, you know, he was an earl, you know, that he hadn't been thinking about it. But the other thing is that he. Albert had written, like, a travel Diary. And he, Edward gives it to her as a Christmas present. And so she kind of allows herself to read it, like, not all in one big gulp, but like sort of one page every couple of days just like he wrote them. And she starts to realize and understand that like, what Albert needed to know was that like, Edward could take care of her, that Edward would take care of her. And then you. What we, you know, the reader starts to understand is like, Edward had figured out like. Or Albert had figured out like, my brother's in love with her now. I also want to talk about the influenza.
- [56:32]
A
Oh, the influenza. Let's talk about that. Thank goodness for vaccines.
- [56:39]
B
Yeah, yeah. Everybody, this is. I guess so what happens is. So okay, she's been there at a stalemate where, you know, he's like, I, I don't know how to fix this, but we're, we're not going to really fix it till we go to London for the season. I'm reading to the babe every day at 2pm he goes out to the village and there is flu in the village. And a little boy kind of comes into the shop and wants to buy a meat pie for his mother. And you know, he doesn't have any money, of course. And like, you know, and Edward is, takes care of this family, like disappears for a few days, nurses this woman and her child back to health, comes back himself sick and the thing. Right, himself with influenza. And, you know, it turns out that this is how Julia's parents died. And so she like writes this woman in the village, Mrs. Lark, she's like, how did you save him? The doctor's like, nothing you can do. And I, Sarah, I really did find myself thinking, I don't know what, I don't know. Like, like people. Sometimes what I hear people say is like, there's nothing, all the stuff in historical romance has nothing to do with now. Right. It's. It's just old timey, whatever.
- [57:58]
A
Yeah.
- [57:59]
B
And I found myself thinking, imagine you could tell these people, 100 years from now, 150 years from now, there's going to be a miracle medicine that if you give it to everybody every fall, no one will ever die of influenza. They would be like, give it to me now. Give it to me every day. And here we are in a country turning away from this kind of medicine. And I, I did, I found it very poignant to read, to read these stories where people died from illnesses that we, we are, we know how to now prevent. I don't know. I, I know that's like really not Maybe what people were coming here to hear, but I really was like, holy shit, what are we doing?
- [58:45]
A
Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this, right? Because historical, as we all know, like, it's on a downswing. Historical fiction, too widely, is on a downswing. And I've been reading a lot of these articles about, like, how we're not reading enough. We're not like Americans. Americans are. America's sliding into illiteracy. I saw one that seems very startling as a. As a headline. And I think that. I'm not saying, listen, we have had this conversation with Chels a couple seasons ago. I don't think romance needs to be didactic. I don't think we are here to teach people. But I do think that when we read historical fiction or historical romance, historical. When we read stories about history or we are told stories about history or we watch them on television, you know, we watch Ken Burns documentary. Like, the reason why we keep history alive, why we should be teaching it in our schools, is because those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
- [59:44]
B
Right.
- [59:45]
A
And so, like, do I think that Lorraine Heath writing about influenza should inspire us all to get vaccinated? No. Do I think it's important for us to remember that influenza impacted people in a very emotional, real, and, like, domestic way?
- [60:00]
B
Yes. Right.
- [60:01]
A
So if it takes gorilla twins to teach us that, then, like, yeah, we should be like, is there a reason? Is there something more insidious to the way that we are just, like, eliminating all forms of history from culture, like, even these silly little romance novels?
- [60:21]
B
Yeah, it just. It did. It really hit me in a different way. It really did. And I just found myself thinking. And I think I had, like, a similar. You know, I had a similar response when, right, like, you read these romance novels and it's like, I remember as a kid, right, thinking, like, the most ridiculous thing in a fucking romance novel was like, the night before a wedding when the mother sat down with a daughter and was like, okay, here's what's about to happen. And I just remember thinking, like, come on, lie back and think of England. Come on. Like, come on, that can't be real, right? But here we are. And so I think that was the thing. I really found myself very moved in a way I did not expect by the specter of illness sweeping through a community and doctors being like, what could we do? There's nothing we can do. God will take the people he wants to take. And I did. I just found myself very. I don't know. I really Spent a lot of time thinking about, why would we go back. Why would anyone choose to go back there when we don't have to? So everybody's fall. Get your flu shot. That's all I have to say about that. Yeah. So he. After this life or death experience. Right. Julia. And again, talk about bravery as a character.
- [61:44]
A
Yeah.
- [61:44]
B
So she nurses him back to health. And she said. And then they have this. This incredible conversation. And I will say, if you are a person who has thought, like, why can't people just talk to each other.
- [61:55]
A
In the romance novel.
- [61:56]
B
Yeah, right. The conversation where she says to him, I think I knew all along that you weren't Albert. He never would have done XYZ things. He never would have approved of me reading that book. And at some level, I have to admit that. And she. And it's beautiful what she says. Like. Like, yes, I loved him, but there are things between us that are just between us. And I think I love you too. And as I read that, I just thought it takes, like, the best romances to me. And I think Kate had said something about this on social media relatively recently. But, I mean, I think this has always been a part of me. Like, it is scary to love people. Yeah. And to have her be able to say that in those circumstances.
- [62:47]
A
Yeah.
- [62:48]
B
I was really. It was. It was brave. I was really moved by it. I thought it was beautiful.
- [62:53]
A
And also really refreshing in the way that it feels like, you know, romance doesn't always give heroines good first marriages or first marriages where, like, the love is earned and valued and especially. And that is a truth that is something that is particularly true in historical, like, often, like, second husbands or heroes, like, save heroines. Right.
- [63:21]
B
From some bad situation.
- [63:23]
A
Something terrible. Right. And that's not what Lorraine is doing here.
- [63:27]
B
No.
- [63:28]
A
But then there is this other. I mean, there is also the guilt layer, right. Throughout this book. And this is a pretty significant spoiler. I mean, like, we're. We've sort of, like, sent spoilers by the wayside, but everybody, like, if you care about spoilers more than what we've talked about, this is. This is a big one. But throughout this book, there is a layer. There are. There is a massive layer of guilt here, Right. And it's really, like, authentically beautifully written. There is a lot of survivor's guilt here. There is this. The sense of, like, my brother had this beautiful life, right. Like, yes, he had this wife who was waiting for him. He had this daughter who was waiting for him. This is so perfect. Like, when. When Edward goes to the mausoleum after the baby is born and basically tells Albert, like, we're naming her after you. She's beautiful. She's perfect. Like, you should be here for it. It's very emotional. It's very sad. And you sort of, as the reader, think to yourself, like, this is just a beautifully, like, painted portrait of grief.
- [64:27]
B
Right.
- [64:27]
A
Like, this makes. Makes sense. And it does make sense. And then because it's Lorraine, you get sort of deeper into the book, and then it becomes clear that, in actual fact, Albert shouldn't have died. So the story that was told was that Albert, the. A. They stumbled upon a mountain gorilla, a baby gorilla. And they stumbled upon a baby. A baby. A baby baby. And Albert went to pick it up and was holding it, and the baby's mother came out of the woods and was like, what the is going on here? And attacked, and Albert died. What actually happened, we come to discover, is that Edward stumbled upon the baby, picked up the baby, and when the mother gorilla came out, she came for Edward, and Albert saved him.
- [65:29]
B
And Albert had also been like, maybe you should be doing that.
- [65:31]
A
I mean, don't touch the baby gorilla. Which, like, Jane Goodall did not exist. But good sense did.
- [65:38]
B
Yes.
- [65:38]
A
And so now here's a. Here's a piece of information about mountain gorillas that I thought you might be interested in. Tell me. They are, in fact. Tell you. Now we pause for information about mountain gorillas. They are, in fact. So they are. You know, they're indigenous to Central Africa. They are the largest primate, and. Which surprised me. They are the largest primate. They are only. They only get to be, like, about six feet tall, but their arm span is more than eight feet.
- [66:11]
B
Oh, wow.
- [66:13]
A
So if you're scrambling backwards, thinking that you're dealing with human here. No, you're not. That thing has longer arms than you think, so you're. You gotta be worried. And I think that's what's happening here. I think there was an arm situation with this gorilla. Anyway, it's very bad. And so now there's this sort of, like, added thing. Like, he's like, I basically killed him too.
- [66:38]
B
Or even worse, my perfect paragon of a brother saved himself for a dumbass idiot like me.
- [66:47]
A
Yep.
- [66:47]
B
Right. Like, everybody knew he was the good one and I was the bad one. Yep. Now, here's the thing they make up. He said, like, right. She's like, I don't want to lose you. I'm in love with you. It's this incredibly brave moment. She's like. And so you're, you know, he's like, okay, I'm just gonna continue to be Albert and it'll be fine. I'm gonna pretend to be Albert. That's the plan. Remember I said it's really brilliant that they're in the phone booth. Right. They're on this estate. This is fine. Because they are only surrounded by servants who are like, yeah, sure, this is the earl and his wife.
- [67:20]
A
Fine.
- [67:20]
B
Didn't.
- [67:21]
A
The servants don't notice.
- [67:22]
B
Right. The people in the village are like, yeah, this guy's a hero. Great.
- [67:27]
A
Because all aristocrats know how to thatch a roof, as we've established on previous episodes of Paid a Me.
- [67:33]
B
I mean, Thatcher roof, save a whole family from influenza. Fine. Same energy. Mm. So then it's like, we're gonna go to London to have the season and, you know, like, it'll be fine. And they get there, and immediately it is not fine. And the way it is not fine is that everybody is constantly like, oh, sorry to hear about your shitty brother dying. And so, like, kind of facing the non stop talk about Edward. Where, like, you know, and in particular for Julia, because Edward is kind of like, yeah, this is the plan. This is what we're going to do. We're just going to have to.
- [68:14]
A
And he's willing to take it. But she's outraged.
- [68:16]
B
She is. And it's not. And you know what was really beautiful? It's not just that she's outraged for Edward, she's outraged for Albert too. And she says something. And so she like, sort of says to him, like, you know what? This is not going to work. We're not going to be able to do this. This essentially something like, I cannot stand by silently while people think ill of you and give you no credit. Right. For being the decent man you are. I cannot allow Albert's life to be absorbed by yours. I wish I was strong enough to say it doesn't matter, but it does.
- [68:52]
A
And this is a good example of, like, when Jan Krentz was on and talked about how genre drives gives characters to be their best selves. Right. I think in another book, like, in a book that is not a romance novel that ends happily. Right.
- [69:09]
B
Yeah.
- [69:10]
A
I'll just pretend to be Albert would be a fine, like, resolution. But in a romance novel, that's not enough. Like, we need there to be happily ever after for Edward and Julia. Yes. Not Albert. Not Edward as Albert.
- [69:28]
B
Like, Edward is Edward. We.
- [69:31]
A
We often talk about, like, watching a professional. Like, sometimes you read a romance novel and it's really a professional driver on a closed Course, yes. And like in this case, like, what this moment is Lorraine giving us just one last. Hey, no, it's not resolved. Like, don't buy it. It's not finished.
- [69:57]
B
And that's what I mean about like, you think it's over, but it's not over. There's more.
- [70:03]
A
Yep.
- [70:05]
B
So, yeah. So she's like, okay, we can't do this. We'll have to figure it out how to do it. We'll have to figure out how to tell everybody. It'll be fine. Don't worry about it. Next morning she wakes up and like, her lady friends are all like, oh my God, we just heard about what happened. And she's like, wait, what happened?
- [70:22]
A
Yep.
- [70:22]
B
Well, what happened is he went in front of the whole, you know, I don't know, House of Lords, whatever it's called, the whole assembly, if you're mad Rogan, sorry. And it's like basically like, hey, everybody, guess what? I've been impersonating my dead brother. It was him that died, not me. I did it for money. I had all these debts. Now I'm out of debt. Peace out.
- [70:43]
A
Right?
- [70:43]
B
And he basically, now I'm the Earl, by the way. I'm the Earl now. But, you know, haha. And the whole thing, we immediately understand, is designed to protect her. Yet again.
- [70:56]
A
Right?
- [70:56]
B
Yet again. And I think that is the part that she then is like, wait, you idiot.
- [71:03]
A
Now I really save. You made this a problem boy.
- [71:09]
B
So she goes to his house he's rented to be sad in.
- [71:20]
A
Ever does spend much of this book sad?
- [71:22]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [71:23]
A
Horny and sad.
- [71:24]
B
Horny and sad. It's so true. God. And is like, you're an idiot. We gotta fix this.
- [71:34]
A
Right?
- [71:35]
B
And you know what's really interesting is the fixing. It really just essentially is her saying, I don't.
- [71:45]
A
I don't care.
- [71:46]
B
I want to be with you. Right. I mean, it's not really fixed in any other way than her saying, you know, we're gonna be together.
- [71:56]
A
And oh, by the way, oh, by.
- [71:58]
B
The way, I'm pregnant.
- [72:01]
A
So you really have that final moment of light. And now you really can't. Like, now you have a responsibility to somebody new.
- [72:10]
B
Yeah.
- [72:11]
A
And woof.
- [72:13]
B
Time to go to Switzerland, baby. Yeah.
- [72:17]
A
In the epilogue, Lorraine does this thing that she actually. That is actually sort of a hallmark of her work. Like that the. The one with the photograph that you really love. Like the sort of.
- [72:29]
B
Yeah. Years later, right?
- [72:31]
A
Yeah, it's years later. And he's like, he's thinking it's him sort of alone. And he is thinking about the fact that, like, this marriage has been a scandal from the beginning. Like, and that, you know, people sort of came around to it because people come around to, like, this. Like, there's just.
- [72:58]
B
Right, sure.
- [72:58]
A
Like, there's. There's one. It's one thing if you've really done something terrible. But in this particular case, these are two people who, like, deeply love each other. Right. They've had, like, a family. They are.
- [73:09]
B
They are, like, doing good work in the House of Lords.
- [73:12]
A
Like, he knows how to cure influenza. And Thatcher roof, like, it's just all sort of perfect. Right?
- [73:17]
B
Yeah. And.
- [73:20]
A
And there's. There's that.
- [73:22]
B
Yeah.
- [73:22]
A
Right. And.
- [73:26]
B
Yeah. And I think that's the part, like, going back to.
- [73:28]
A
They're writing children's books. Yeah. Right.
- [73:31]
B
And they're like, nobody knows it was us. And then they finally told everybody, you know? But I think back to the point, like, of Amy in the Discord about, like, the existential dread of, like, losing yourself.
- [73:42]
A
Right.
- [73:42]
B
I did find that very moving in the second half of the book, Right. Where he really is torn between, like, well, I love her and I can be with her, or I have to literally lose myself and become someone else. And he feels that that is worthwhile when it's just the two of them, because she knows that he's Edward. But once they are in London and you realize, he realizes, oh, no, this is far. This is way bigger than that, you know? And she realizes the same thing. It really is, I think, like you said, right. Calling people to be their best selves. But, like, that means, like, you have to be who you are.
- [74:23]
A
Yeah.
- [74:24]
B
And she really. After, like, kind of years of, like, warring with him and, like, everybody knowing they were on the outs, like, being able to say, like, you were able to save those people in the village because of your travels, and, like, dealing with people of sickness of all kinds and being persistent. And there's all these ways in which, like, you are.
- [74:42]
A
He.
- [74:43]
B
Albert was a great man, but you are, too, and you deserve to be Edward. Ugh. God, it's so good. I had a great time rereading it. Sarah.
- [74:53]
A
She is really good. Jen.
- [74:55]
B
Yeah.
- [74:56]
A
You know, there. There are moments where you think about a writer whose, like, catalog. Yeah. Just stands. And, I mean, I think. I think Lorraine is one of those people who, like, you could go back to the beginning of her work from the jump and read every book, and she would be. She's just good. She's good. She's good at the job. And I wonder sometimes about. And this is something I think about a lot when I think about our Trailblazer episodes and I think about like the books that really I've been. I was looking at the Rebecca Romney catalog, the, the romance novel in English a couple days ago and I was thinking about just like romance doesn't have a canon. Right?
- [75:35]
B
Right.
- [75:36]
A
So when you look back and you sort of say like, well, who were the sort of people that built the house? We try to do the best we can. Right. Especially here on Faded Mates. Right. We don't have. This is not our full time job. Like we. And like, you know, you try to sort of say the names of so many of the people. But I think Lorraine's name is the name that doesn't get said very much. And I think it's a name that like, I think she is. I think those of us who did cut our teeth on her books or came up reading her books. The deep, deep courage in. Right. In the writing of these books, the love of genre that's in these books. Books, the, the romance of them. The like deep emotional core of these books. Like, these are books that I point to as like, one day I'd like to be able to say I wrote a book like this. Yeah. I just think if you, if you have not been reading Lorraine, you will love it. You will have the best time.
- [76:30]
B
Yeah. It's like the best mix of like everything I love about romance along with like the sheer what the. Of being like, yeah, he's killed by a mountain gorilla and it's got a million.
- [76:41]
A
A million. You can find something that like if you just go scroll and like find the book that speaks to you, she's written every trope. You know, she's somebody who like, if I'm, I'm doing a talk about a trope or if somebody asks me like, oh, do you have a favorite of a specific kind of trope? I always sort of search Lorraine Heath and then the trope because there's usually something, you know, she's just great. And I'm so happy that we get to talk about her when we get.
- [77:08]
B
To talk about her, you know, so it's interesting. So everybody, this series I said at the beginning is called the Hellions of Haverhil. And what happens at the beginning is Albert and Edward were orphaned. They're. I don't remember the story of what happened to their parents. And they end up being raised by this, the mad Marquis of Marsden and. And like, that's Havisham with their two friends. Right. Who are the other Heroes. Well, I did not realize. And so the marquis is mad because his wife died, and he is heartbroken and can't live without her. And it just like this madman because of it. Well, there is a. His book.
- [77:48]
A
Yes, he has a book. And that's true.
- [77:50]
B
And it tells the story essentially, of what h. How he fell in love and then she dies in childbirth. And then. Right. Essentially, like. And I was like, I don't think I have that in me to read. I think it would break my heart. But if you would like to. When the Marquis Falls is what it's called. And it's like a nolla. And I just think. Right. Because it breaks like, the cardinal rule of romance. Right. Which is like, these people are going to live forever. Sorry.
- [78:16]
A
Actually, what's interesting about Lorraine is that she breaks that rule a few times. There's, you know, she.
- [78:21]
B
Often.
- [78:22]
A
Not often, but there are a few.
- [78:24]
B
She.
- [78:24]
A
It's never. Like, they don't die on page. Well, that's a different situation. But they don't die on page. But, like, there are often epilogues where they are on their death. Like, there. There is at least one deathbed epilogue. There is an epilogue, as you know, where it's like, you know, multiple generations later.
- [78:43]
B
Yeah.
- [78:43]
A
I mean, she's just. She's real brave. She takes the finger every time.
- [78:47]
B
It was really fun to read. Again, I just. Again, the dread and again, like, the. How is it. How is it gonna. How are you gonna make this work? How is this gonna work? Is like, one of my favorite things to feel when I'm reading a romance. And, boy, does Gorilla Twins deliver.
- [79:08]
A
It's so good. I love it so much. Anyway, everyone, that is this week's episode, Gorilla Twins is actually called the Earl Takes All. We should say the title again. It's by Lorraine Heath. She's the best. You should go read all of her books. You can find them wherever you get your books. In the meantime. Meantime, if you would like to spend a little more time with us and with Faded Mates, you can find us every Wednesday. I am Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop, and we are available@beta mates.net where you can click on Episodes and get show notes where we list all the books we've referenced in every episode and like other interesting tidbits. There might be something about Jane Goodall this year or this year, this week. There might be something about the mountain gorillas and their arm span. You never know what. You might be in there. You should go. Go suss it out. If you would like to find us on Instagram or threads, you can do that at Fated Mates Pod. You can also find us on Blue sky at Fated Mates. If you just really like talking about romance novels and you want to talk about books that make you go squee the way this book made me go squee, you can do that at our Discord, which you get access to if you join our Patreon available@faded mates.net Patreon we're also raising money this week for the Virginia off year state legislative session. This is the first state wide legislative election in the country since the Trump administration was re elected. If you want to send a strong message to people who are being impacted by the Trump administration and the administration themselves, and you want to say we won't stand for it, we stand with everybody who is being impacted, then a good way for you to do that work is to give to the States Project which is funding down ticket races throughout Virginia in the hopes of just locking down a full blue wave there. You can do that by visiting faded mace.net giving circle and donating to our Virginia Giving Circle. We're trying to raise another $4,000 for candidates on the ground to knock on doors and canvas and phone bank and get out the vote on November 4th. Other than that, it is October. Jen's birthday is tomorrow, everyone.
- [81:49]
B
You told everybody.
- [81:50]
A
Sarah, that's not cool.
- [81:54]
B
Oh yeah, that's true.
- [81:55]
A
Okay, good point. Jen's birthday is tomorrow. Eric's 50th birthday is next week. So I'm surrounded by Scorpios. Please send help. Love you. Take care of yourselves and others.
- [82:29]
B
Sam.