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[00:00]
A
Well, it's New Year's Eve. We've done it again. Headphones in, headphones in. Headphones in.
[00:08]
B
Your headphones should have been in for several hours already to prepare your ears. Yeah.
[00:13]
C
And like tape over your carplay screen.
[00:16]
A
So, you know.
[00:19]
B
When I sent the calendar invite to Lo and her publicist, I've been calling this New Year's Milk and Eve. Which I thought, I'm sorry, it was.
[00:28]
A
A very funny episode title, let's be honest, obviously.
[00:31]
B
And Kristen was like, I can't put that in the fucking calendar. And I was like, okay, fine, but you better not be listening then. New Year's Milk and Eve is funny.
[00:42]
A
There will be no kink shaming today.
[00:44]
C
I think it just said Faded Nates recording. I was like, okay, that sounds very innocent.
[00:52]
A
Everyone, that is the voice of one of our very favorites, Lauren Billings, one half of the Christina Lauren duo. We are so excited to have you with us again. You are a multi timer here at Faded Mates. And I should just say also you are a multi timer. For episodes where we are like, we want to talk about something slightly dirty. Let's bring low in.
[01:17]
B
It's a sign of our love and respect.
[01:19]
C
Honestly, that is like the biggest compliment for me. And the funniest thing was that I know you would not ask Christina to do that because she would be like, no, thanks. But like, for me, I'm like, let's do it. I'm all in. And so I was talking to her this morning after I dropped off my daughter at school, and I was like, you know, I have that Faded Mates recording today. And she was like, you do? And I was like, oh, I guess I never told you that I've been reading these weren't in books for the last few days. She's like, have fun.
[01:43]
B
Yeah. No, she doesn't want any part of this. She's like, you know, thank you for understanding that. That's just not my ministry.
[01:49]
A
We know our chickens here at Faded Mates. Yes, but I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.
[01:58]
B
I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader. I've never edited this, so I'll just say reader. Pure reader this time around.
[02:05]
A
And I haven't written this.
[02:06]
B
Not yet.
[02:07]
A
Christina Lauren has written this. And we're gonna get to it, everybody. This is fated mates. It is New Year's Eve and our longtime listeners know that on our New Year's Eve episodes, the rules are just out the window.
[02:20]
B
Well, in fact, I was like, I don't know. We're out of good ideas. And Sarah was literally, like, point of order. The best idea of all has. We have yet to do. And I was like. And like a. I didn't.
[02:30]
A
I don't know if I called it the best idea of all.
[02:32]
B
I mean. Well, you were like, no, there's something out there we have not done on New Year's Eve.
[02:36]
A
The truth is, is that it feels weird that we haven't done. What are we calling this? Lactation. Yeah.
[02:44]
B
Yeah. Lactation kink. Right.
[02:45]
A
Because it's. I mean, because it does come up a lot.
[02:49]
B
Now, here's the thing, though. When it comes up, Sarah, I was thinking about this, too. This is on my list, which, by the way, I have a lot of notes I'm planning to burn later in my backyard in a fire.
[02:59]
C
Yeah.
[02:59]
B
And Sarah, when it comes up, I will be burning these later, or I will be burned later. Just smoted. Sarah always. Almost always calls it adult breastfeeding. And I'm like, okay, but it's not nutrition.
[03:14]
A
Like, no. No one's like, sometimes it is. We're not Steinbeck here.
[03:24]
B
Right?
[03:24]
A
Where. This is not. That is not where we are.
[03:27]
B
The milk of wrath. No, not at. Right. And so. So I was always like, I think that's not right. Lactation kink.
[03:34]
A
Does it Is lactation kink. But more accurate, what I discovered is that if you are. And I wonder if the two of you discovered this also in our vast research for this episode. Because everybody, we are professionals here, all three of us. And so we planned this. Should we tell everybody how we invited Lo.
[03:53]
B
Yes, you tell her. Yes, tell them.
[03:57]
A
Okay, so Jen and I were like, all right, we're gonna do this. We're gonna. We're gonna pull the trigger. We're doing it. And then I. And I said, well, we need a guest. And obviously it's. We know. I mean, there was no that. You were top. You were the only. There was no list.
[04:10]
B
It was you. And, yeah, if she says no, we gotta come up with another idea. You don't know what we're doing. Right. So.
[04:17]
A
And so we just. Jen opened a thread between the three of us and dropped into the text thread.
[04:23]
B
Like, hey, Lo, would you like to.
[04:26]
A
Join us for our New Year's Eve episode?
[04:28]
B
We have an idea.
[04:30]
A
And I just dropped a text that had two capital O's next to each other. And now that's the name of that text. We've changed the name, and it's just capital O. Capital O for a book.
[04:44]
C
I think my answer was just a very clear fuck yes. Yeah, I needed no more information.
[04:49]
A
Yeah, you were like, I'm ready. I feel prepared to do the research.
[04:52]
C
Got my list already? I have professionally researched this. Professionally destroyed my Kindle algorithm.
[04:59]
A
Sacrificed.
[05:01]
B
I. Actually, you guys, there was a book I remember reading on KU that is now off of ku, and I had to go to Smash Words to retrieve it. I was willing to go to the end.
[05:11]
A
Oh, you went to the deep dark of the earth.
[05:13]
B
It was. Was it Alexa Riley? No. That. Not even. And then I also had to literally even, like, check and uncheck. Like, no. I was like, show me the erotic content. Look. And then it's like. Then there's like another checkbox where you're like, no, I really mean it. I Show me the dirtiest shit you've got in here. And then all of a sudden, it popped up. And so that's, you know, why you need your headphones in. Maybe, like double headphones even.
[05:34]
A
Yeah. Like two condoms. Sure. All right, so here's the deal. We are gonna. So, but my problem is that when you actually search this stuff, some stuff, like, the algorithm doesn't allow you to do a lot of searching around here necessarily. And the. So the reason why I think I do call it adult breastfeeding is because that's what you have to put into Amazon to get, like, the full scope of the books. You have to put in abf.
[06:04]
C
Yeah.
[06:04]
A
Which is like a porn slash, probably fic thing. I don't know. But it's.
[06:10]
C
Well also. So just as a little aside, so when I had younger kids, one of my good friends had a baby, and this was when I was already writing with Christina. So my kids were like, you know, three, four, five, whatever. So I was not breastfeeding them anymore. And my friend had a baby and she. This is again, headphones in. Everybody knows this. She was making a ton of milk, and she's a loving person, so she pumped and would save it. And she basically gave her milk. She donated her milk to women who couldn't breastfeed. And there's, like, sites that you can go to where. Where you can, like, list, you know, here I have this, like, I don't drink, don't smoke, whatever, blah, blah, blah. So she was supplying this mother with breast milk, and she got so many messages from dudes who were like, they. There was like, certain terminology. I guess it's like, from the source and all this stuff, and there's people who want to use it to make chocolate. And it's just like. It's a whole thing that I genre does not allow you to see Jen's reaction to that right now.
[07:13]
B
It's probably for the best. I'd get fired for sure.
[07:16]
A
But I mean, of course it is. Right? Like, of course there's a whole. And this is one of the things I do want to talk about is the Venn diagram of, like, these books. Because I feel like there are two very distinct schools of this. Yes. I think the gaze is different on them.
[07:35]
B
Yes.
[07:36]
C
So I think there might be more than two.
[07:38]
A
Oh, I'm excited to get into it, but there is a gaze issue going on here.
[07:44]
C
Oh, for sure, for sure. Okay. I'm so excited.
[07:48]
B
I don't even. Okay. You know what? Here's what I was thinking. Would be so much to cover. So much to cover a fun place. Now, listen, we're all women of a certain age. We've all been reading romance for decades. Yes. Before the advent of the Kindle and everything that it can bring into your reading life. So I thought it would be really interesting for us to also talk about, like, do you remember the first time you read this in like, a Traditionally, like. Right. Traditionally published self publishing didn't really exist. So, like, when's the first time you remember reading this? Because I remember. I remember. I will start. Okay, you want to go? You go. No, you.
[08:24]
A
No, you have a. You have a plan. You go.
[08:26]
C
You.
[08:26]
A
You came up with the question.
[08:28]
B
Okay, sure. All right. So for me, you guys. And this is wild. It was in Sandra Brown category romances. Those Love Swept. And there were two. Dirty Bird. Oh, yeah, right. And they were. Listen, everybody, I'm going to say this with, like, a little. One of them is actually I downloaded from the library. Cause it has been, like, translated into, like, an ebook format, which is Sunny Chandler's Return. And in this one, it's just like, they have this. And I like, went back and reread this. And this probably would have been the first time I read. Although I don't necessarily have as vivid a memory as this. This was 1987. And in this, they have this really interesting conversation where he, like, sort of talks about how he was like, a cop. And he would do, like, you know, he'd be like, I often fantasized about, like, women's breasts, but not in a. And he have. They have this really interesting conversation where he's, like, kind of in a nurturing way. Right. And she sort of says, like, I guess I can kind of understand that. Like, sometimes when I'm really stressed out, I imagine, like, putting my hand, like, my head on a man's shoulder, like, right, like sort of being enveloped and held in that way. And like, maybe it's just like comfort. And I was like, okay. So I was rereading this and I was like, okay, sounds good, but it's not what I remember. And then like later on, like the first time they're having sex, he basically says to her as he is like thrusting into her, like, one day, I'll drink your milk. And I was like, oh, okay.
[09:50]
A
Sandra Brown knew the job. And he as here's my disappointment.
[09:57]
B
Love swept everybody. A love swept romance.
[09:59]
A
Yes.
[10:02]
B
This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Michelle Dayton, author of Every Other New Year's Eve.
[10:09]
A
Oh, this is such a cute premise. Paige Larson is riding high on the future and possibilities at New Year's Eve 2019. Like so many of us, Paige what a time. And she ducks into a neighborhood bar for a celebratory drink where she meets Will Weber, who is having the same kind of vibes, very excited about what's to come. Like, 2020 is going to be a great year. They have a little bit of a clashing personality, but they have a very, very good physical attraction. And the two of them dance the night away, grooving to 1970s music in this very unique bar that neither of them have ever been to. But when Paige and Will try to find the bar and each other the following day because they had such a great time, they realized that the night was even more magical than they believed. This bar appears for only a handful of hours every two years in an abandoned city lot on December 31st. And it turns out the two of them are living in different timelines, two years apart. So this book travels a span of eight years and all the life changes between Paige and Will as they search for a way to to find each other through space and time. This is a perfect happily ever after for a happy New Year's Eve. And what a great book to be on this week's podcast.
[11:35]
B
Yeah. So if you are interested in finding out more about this book, it is available in print and in ebook and if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Michelle Dayton for sponsoring this week's episode.
[11:54]
A
My it was not, not my first, but one of my early experiences with this was Sandra Brown's Another dawn, which is a historical and that's also. Listen there this there's a lot of kink that goes on in this book. She this is A book between a young woman, like 18 or 19, like very young, and she's jilted on her wedding day and then ends up like, seeking solace in the arms of her parents best friend who was. Has been in love with her mother for like his whole life. And now he's like, why not? Yeah, very similar, actually. I wonder if it's. I mean, you will never know if Stephanie Meyer was a Sandra Brown fan, but it actually is very closely aligned because, like, he did like hold her as a baby and yeah, it's super dirty. And then she gets pregnant and he's, you know, ter classic Sandra Brown hero. Like absolutely terrible to her, but also very happy to like get on the.
[12:59]
B
T. Sorry I just said it. I mean, somebody was going to. We had to break the seal on that. Yeah.
[13:08]
A
But my first. And like, I can remember being. I remember I've never reread this book. It is Bertrace Smalls all the Sweet Tomorrows, which is the second in the Sky o' Malley series. And now listen, this part of the reason why I've never gone back to this book is because this whole series is just, aside from being fully banana pants, is also.
[13:33]
B
You don't want to know. Right.
[13:34]
A
Like deeply racist, super problematic, carries with it all the things that the 70s and 80s carried with it. But this is number two in the series. And like, the plot of this book involves sky selling herself in white into white slavery to a harem, to a sheik in the Middle east who has a lactation kink. And so he gets her pregnant along with the rest of his wives and just milks them all. And I little baby Sarah at like no more than 12. Yeah, sure was like, is this real?
[14:15]
B
Is this. Do we real?
[14:18]
A
They do that? I mean, like, we do. We sort of think to ourselves, like, what are these kids finding on Reddit? Well, I was in all the Sweet Tomorrows. So, yeah, I mean, and I remember just being. It's the first book I ever. The first romance novel I read. And like, I had by this point had read a bunch of like, I was just reading whatever I could get.
[14:43]
B
My hands on more Normie shit, right?
[14:45]
A
I mean, Normie shit. I was reading Judvariau, which, like, you know, and then I. But I can remember getting to this book and being like, oh, I could get in trouble if my mom knew I was reading this, you know?
[14:57]
B
Yeah.
[14:58]
A
Like, it sort of. I even then understood, like, this is kink in a way that like, none of the other. All the other stuff is very like, you Know, white bread and mayonnaise. Yes, white bread and mayonnaise. That's a terrible. I know. Like, it's like what we're doing, like he could span her waist with his hands. Is like Beverly Cleary. And then there was whatever this was, which I was.
[15:26]
B
Right.
[15:26]
A
I just knew, like, if my mom got her hands on this, like, that was gonna be a problem. And so I remember, like keeping that book hidden.
[15:33]
C
Oh yeah.
[15:34]
A
It felt taboo.
[15:35]
C
Yeah.
[15:38]
B
After the Sunny Chandler's return, like a year later because I actually looked up the dates. There was one. Again, everyone, this has not been converted to an ebook because real racist. It was called Hako Tools Hostage. Right. And in this one he is, you know, of course, I'm sure half Native American and he kidnaps her for whatever reason. And what I remember, I don't remember anything about the plot, which is probably for the best, but I. What I remember, and I think this was the shocking one I really remember reading the first time was at the end of it, it like in like the epilogue, like, she, like he literally is at her breast. And I was like, oh, like, same thing. Like, I could tell even back then that like somehow this was different in a. Right. I'd been reading a lot of stuff my mom would not approve of and frankly, probably still does not approve of. But, you know, I'm a grown up now and she can't stop me. But I remember that book feeling salacious, like really like it was doing something like, whoa. That was way different.
[16:39]
C
I love that it's in the epilogue because it is such a key part of their happily ever after.
[16:44]
A
Right?
[16:45]
C
Yeah.
[16:46]
A
It's important to know.
[16:47]
C
No, like, literally, I don't think I hadn't read anything like this. And that's why when I, you know, I had the friend who was giving away her breast milk, like, I was like, wait, there's a whole world of this out there. And so, I mean, I didn't start reading any of that or like looking into it until we wrote it into Beautiful Beloved. And I wanted to kind of see, like, is this something people write in books? And so the answer is a very resounding yes. I was shocked how many books there were when I was searching for this episode. I was just like, whoa.
[17:19]
A
But I do think that there's like, even in this, right. There's a spectrum of what's happened, how it's written into the books, like what. How it's relevant to the books. And the reason why I sort of like the epilogue idea is in. So in Dreaming of you. Right. Like, Derek, that's an epilogue moment where he is on the tit. And so. And, like, there's nothing about. I think even. I think Sandra and I think Bertrice was just, like, into kink. Like, all of her books are just, like, slightly.
[17:52]
C
Ah.
[17:53]
A
But then the Sandra. The Sandra of it all, like, it's just, like, part of it for her. Like, she just clearly, like, this is a sexy thing for her as a writer. It's a sexy thing. So it's written into the books. And then I think Lisa, too, like, that. That sort of Derek Craven of it all. Like, it's just, like, a thing Derek does. Right.
[18:14]
C
Because I also think it makes sense, though. I mean, and certainly not for every woman, because every person. Every person who's had a baby, you have a different relationship with your body. Right. Like, not everybody feels this way, but I certainly felt when I was pregnant and then after I'd had my baby that I just was this sort of, like, voluptuous. I loved it, you know, and so I think for people who feel that way when they're writing, they are going to write it into their.
[18:39]
B
Yeah.
[18:40]
C
Because part of the happily ever after is finding a partner who also sees two mirrors that. Who sees that in you and wants that. And so I think, you know, it's. I'm not gonna say I found a lot that were, like, done in a way that I was like. I. I relate to this.
[18:53]
A
Right.
[18:53]
C
You know, I think. But I also think that, like, you know, when you're talking about those books that you read early on, where they. That's just part of the book they write. It's probably because that's part of how they see, like, a positive sexual relationship that includes a family, you know?
[19:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[19:09]
B
That's a really good point. Yeah. And see, I. Everybody, I'm like, you know, I hated. I'd nurse for three weeks and was like, this is not for me. I hated it. I hated pumping. I like all that stuff. So it's funny to me in some ways that I find it sexy or interesting because. And maybe it's just like, the opposite, right? Like, I didn't really have that experience. You know, I remember being in a Target and, like, someone else's baby cried and my milk let down, and I was like, okay, I'm done with this. Like, I was literally, like, enough of this. Like, and that's enough of this. But I also think that, you know, I don't know if this is, like, the Scorpio in me. I was like, you're not gonna tell me what to fucking do. And the sort of, like, narrative around, like, you know, like, this is what it means to be a good mother was really hard for me. I was like, you can't convince me that that's true. I was miserable and I hated it. And being able to give someone else my baby and a bottle and anyone could feed him was very freeing for me in a way that I just was like, I can't. And I remember saying to my husband, like, I can't do this and be the food too. Like, I. I don't like. So maybe that is why it's sort of, like, sexy to me, because, like, it wasn't an experience I had. I didn't, like, feel that way right.
[20:24]
A
At all.
[20:24]
C
But I do think, like, as we were talking about it just before we started, the one thing that I thought was really, like, important to state is that, like, my relationship to my body as a mother was very different than my relationship to my body as a wife. Right. And so, you know, to be able to read these where, like, the child is not a part of it as it should not be.
[20:45]
B
Right, right, exactly.
[20:47]
C
And, like, the reason why women are lactating in these books is so varied. Like, some of them. I read one book where there was, like. They didn't even explain it. She was a virgin. It was like, her stepdad doesn't matter. Stepdad, like, takes her to a motel and they have sex and she's lactating.
[21:01]
A
That's romance boob. Right, Right.
[21:05]
C
So it's like. Or it's like, you know, it's induced by something or it's a, you know, procedure they have, you know, it's fasc.
[21:12]
A
She's taking a lot of. What's Fenugreek?
[21:15]
B
Or whatever.
[21:16]
A
Just loaded up on Fenugreek.
[21:18]
B
When you start reading a bunch of these, you're like, what is the story behind it? And, like, kind of, how is. How is this character at this point?
[21:28]
A
This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by the steamy Bookworms monster Romance Box, A book box that will bring you two special edition paperback monster romances, including art prints, stickers, and a curated extra inspired by the theme every other month.
[21:44]
B
Yeah. So these book boxes released January, March, May, July, September, November. Right. And so that means that the new January titles just dropped. And it is. Which I think is going to be really fun and you're all going to love it. A dark monster romance box with two books by Sapphira that feature curvy Heroines and the monsters who love them. And the thing that's really fun, I think also about this subscription box is there's different levels. So you can kind of get like the full box that has the art prints, the books, themed extras, a candle, signed book plates. But you can also, you know, step it down and just get the books and the art or the books alone. So there's lots of different options for everybody in your monster romance loving little hearts.
[22:32]
A
I like the fact that this is a categorically no AI ever heart box, which is something that I've started looking for.
[22:41]
B
Everything made by humans except the monsters.
[22:44]
C
Except.
[22:44]
A
Well, exactly. But the, the monsters like humans. I. I feel confident. So you can learn more about Steaming Bookworms or go head over there. Today on December 31st, any purchase that's made actually today in the month of December enters you to win a 40 gift gifts certificate to your next book box at Steaming bookworms. Head to steamingbookworms.com for more information or to explore the available boxes. And thanks to Steaming Bookworms for sponsoring this week's episode. Well, this is, this is the actual thing because I, I mean, there are so many different versions of it, but also there are very specific versions of it.
[23:30]
C
Yes.
[23:30]
A
Right. So I think, I mean, what's interesting to me is so I, I talked about gays and I think that that's like, for me, there's sort of this, like, there's a lot of it that's just like clearly for the kink of it. And like it doesn't super matter why.
[23:50]
B
Right.
[23:50]
A
Like, it. None of the, like lead up. And I would say a sort of defining characteristic of those reads is that lady is uncomfortable because her breasts are full. The first paragraph of the book. Yeah. It doesn't matter. And it's like I'm in a. I'm in a department store, I'm in a conference room, I'm in a hotel bathroom. Like, I'm wherever I am and my boobs hurt. And oh, look, there's this grumpy man outside and he's just like waiting to be.
[24:19]
C
Get on the tip.
[24:20]
A
Get on the tip.
[24:21]
B
Get on the tent. You know, and it's also those authors tend to have names that are really going to identify them in advance. Right. Yeah. Thank you, Sarah. I think I had another one.
[24:35]
A
I did. Now I'm going to pull it up. Hang on.
[24:38]
C
Oh, my God, they were so funny.
[24:40]
B
Yeah.
[24:43]
A
Yeah. Like Lucy Swells. Like, listen, Lucy Swells is not a real. That is not her given name. No.
[24:51]
C
And I mean, and if it is, then she's calling, right? Name is Destiny.
[24:57]
B
Yeah, I think one. I. There's what I kept finding.
[25:01]
A
You have Jade Swallow.
[25:02]
B
Yes, Jade Swallow. You know what you're getting.
[25:07]
A
But also, listen, I'll say it like, these books did not do it for me. Like, I needed a little bit more, like, of a story. And listen, everybody, I need, like, you know, the, you know, vermouth waved over the top of the martini. I don't need a ton of story, but I just need, like, a slight entry.
[25:29]
C
I got one that I really liked.
[25:31]
A
Okay.
[25:32]
C
I found one that I actually really liked. It was very short. You can pick it up and read it in, like, literally 10 minutes. And it's called Fresh Cream by Ex Callisto.
[25:41]
A
I've read that one, and it's a. Basically, it's a.
[25:44]
C
Why choose Minotaur? Hugh Cow Romance.
[25:47]
B
Right?
[25:48]
C
So there's these. This woman, Sarah, she goes to this farm. She thinks it's like a wellness retreat. She arrives and immediately starts lactating at the sight of this minotaur. And turns out she is, like the dream woman to come and feed these three minotaur and breed their baby minotaur babies. I mean, I actually liked it because I felt like, I get why she's doing this.
[26:12]
A
And I thought of it as a soft entry and then a very hard book.
[26:19]
C
Yeah. So I don't know. That one worked for me. And I think maybe it's because it was the Minotaurs. It's like, we can be sort of have this, like, the monster. There's something that induces this state, you know?
[26:31]
B
Yeah. Yeah. You guys, I'm, like, so dumb. I was actually, like. I, like, kept looking at something. Okay, so there's an author called Luna Stark, and she has written a 21 book series called the Dairy Diaries. And I was like, the diary dairy. Like, I just, like, in my brain, I was like. And then I was like, oh, that's the Dairy Diaries. Okay. And I read the one because I. Again, dirty. Fine. There was one about, like, essentially voyeurism. So it was called the Milky View, a show for my grumpy neighbor. And I was like, oh, this is absolutely what I want to read. And these two are super into, like, the voyeurism of it all. Like, right. Like, she's in her window, and he. She's, like, watching him masturbate. And he's watching her, like, lactate again. Why? I don't even actually have any memory. And then they realize that, like, they're so Noisy. That there's some, like, creeper in the neighborhood who's also sort of getting off on listening to them. And so then at the end of the book, like, the ultimate scene in this book is that they go to this guy's backyard and have, like, sex in his backyard so that he can watch them, and they both have a great time. And I was like, you know what? These two lost souls have found each other. But I was like, 21 books, and they're all, you know, like. You know, my motorcycle friends, like, whatever. Right. Like, you can. You can pick. Choose your poison. Because they're all essentially, you know, it's not. But I will say, I do remember the writing is just terrible. Right. And so I. I'm sorry. They are like. Right. Like, the. These types of books in. In this class are not. Are gonna be what they are.
[28:11]
C
That's not what you go for, though.
[28:13]
B
Yeah, Right. That's not why you're there.
[28:16]
C
Yeah.
[28:16]
B
And so I will say in this, Luna Stark, I was kind of like, oh, these are sentences.
[28:24]
A
You guys. The bar is on the floor again. It is. It is.
[28:27]
B
There's some, like, scene work, like, you know, And I. And so I.
[28:31]
C
You appreciated that as well?
[28:33]
B
I. I did, yeah.
[28:34]
C
I mean, when you're talking about this now, I feel like I'm remembering actually, the first thing I ever read, and it was fan fiction. It was Twilight fan fiction, and it was called Volturi Dairy. And it was basically, Edward is a farmer who, like. Basically, his cows are women. And Bella comes and. To her. To the farm, and he, like, has a stall for her, and he, like, hooks her up to machines. And she is like, the Hugh Cow thing. But it's to the point where it's like cow play as well. So it isn't just about the laptop. It's like she has, like, a plug that is a tail. And they, like, you know, all that whole thing. And so I feel like there's. There's these. You know, there's overlaps with, like, furry situations happening and, like.
[29:19]
A
Yeah.
[29:20]
C
I guess what I'm saying is I didn't realize how vast the world of lactation kink was until I started doing some work for this episode was just like, wow, the world is large. I mean.
[29:31]
A
Yeah, there is also. I'm just trying to find God. I mean, I read a lot of those jade swallows.
[29:39]
B
Oh, yeah, sure. Me too. And you know what? They're all like. They are what they are. Right? Like, if. If. If you're like, whatever, I just need a hit of this, then that's gonna be what you're gonna look up. Yep.
[29:49]
A
And then Elena Don's like, Mountain Daddies.
[29:54]
B
That's like, an actual book. We're gonna have to return to that one, are we?
[29:57]
A
We're not there yet. And then I would say also another person who is in this mix that sort of just very clearly is doing, like, just. Is Violet Dare. So I want to just. I want to find the book that I read that made me just laugh out loud.
[30:17]
B
While you're looking for that, can I, like, take a minute to talk about something else that really made me laugh, which is so everybody knows. I really love the book Heaven Texas by Susan Elizabeth Phillips. This is 1995, right? So, like, again, these Sandra Browns were almost a decade earlier in, like, Love Swepts. But a really funny part of, like, of this. Of the book is that Bobby Tom is like a action hero in this film he's making. And his co worker, who is not the heroine, she's not. The main character, is a mother, and she's still nursing her baby Elvis. And at one point, she, like, her milk lets down in the middle of the scene. And Bobby Tom is horrified. Like, horrified. He's like, I can't. Like, he's just like, I can't. Like, that's a nursing mother. I can't make love to a nursing mother. Something he says. It's a really funny thing. But the part that is really entirely hilarious about it is I went back and looked at that. I was looking at it, and I think I knew this, but I, like, wanted to double check. Is that the dedication of this book is Susan Elizabeth Phillips thinking her buddies in the Leleche League.
[31:27]
A
Perfect. Who?
[31:28]
B
And I really. It was like, one of those things where I thought, I wonder if this was just like. I almost feel like I could see it happen, right? Like, she's the La Leleche mom now. She's got kids, and they're all sitting around talking about how their husbands act about this whole business.
[31:43]
C
And she's like, I'm putting that in a book, ladies.
[31:45]
B
I'm gonna put it in a book.
[31:45]
C
And they're like, y.
[31:49]
B
Exactly. And I just thought, it's so funny, because if it was now, would he be grossed out by it? You know what I mean? Like, he is so, like, literally, like, frozen. And I think, of course, part of it is it's not the love interest, right Then it's just like, another women, you know, it's another woman, and that's for a baby. And Bobby Tom wants Nothing to do with it. And it's just real. It's just like a really funny. Like the. The anti. Right.
[32:15]
C
Yeah. I do think there would be a.
[32:17]
A
Still be.
[32:17]
C
I still think there would be a lot of guys that would be really freaked out by it, but I. Hopefully less so.
[32:22]
A
Yeah, but like, I think intellectually freaked out. But then, like, in the. Like, if they actually let themselves go.
[32:27]
C
Yeah, like if the ID is invited into the party.
[32:30]
A
Exactly. But I mean, that's the problem, right? That's why romance is so important. Everyone. So wait, I was talking about Violet Dare and that. So she's written 12. I mean, at least 12. But the series is called Real Men Suck.
[32:46]
C
My God, I am obsessed.
[32:50]
A
Wait, let me just read some of the titles and then I will get to the one that I think is most important, which will tie us into the next thing that I want to talk about, which. So, for example, there are the obviouss, right? Like milking the rock star. Milked by the dad's best friend. Milk by the quarterback. Milked by the cowboy. Milking the rabbi was really, I mean, I found really, like, progressive in a lot of ways because she is the rabbi and he is not Jewish. So it's like a little like, if nobody wants. This was your thing last year. Maybe this will be for you. And this is what's interesting about these. This book particularly.
[33:34]
B
Was.
[33:34]
A
It had this thing that, like, they all see that there is this sort of big group of these, like, romance. These. These lactating romances where the beginning is, like, a mom who has either been divorced or, like, left or, you know, widowed. And she is. She's, like, got a. Like, she's got a kid who is, like, just old enough to, like, be present in the text. Like, you know, she's eight months old or they're, you know, a year and a half old. Like, kind of taught a little less than a toddler. They're still nursing. And, like, this mother is, like, really, like, broken up. Like, has had a, like, deep heartache, heartbreak that has, like, thrust her into this, you know, story and then, like, finds a man who, you know, sees her for who she is, loves her body for all its, like, flaws post birth. Like, there's something very ID about, like, something very, like, emotionally compelling about these books and what they're actually saying about, like, your body post birth, like, now that you're a mother and, like, kind of reckoning. It's also always like, first child. So, like, she's really. It feels very much like what we're Actually doing here is reckoning with like, who we are, like, who we've become, what our bodies are doing, how our bodies look, all this. And you find a person who is like, so hot for you because these books are just pure kink.
[35:18]
C
Oh, yeah.
[35:19]
A
And all he wants to do is like, get on the tit.
[35:23]
C
Yeah.
[35:24]
A
And like, oh, yeah. And like, great for you. Real men do suck, Violet.
[35:31]
C
But you, you gotta wonder, like, what. Where some of these authors are coming from. Like, I read one where it was a single mom. She had like, young, like a couple young kids, and she was doing sex work to support her family because her husband had left her. And it was like very kind of straightforward about that. And then she gets picked up by this guy, a cowboy in a pickup truck, who basically is like, do you want a long term thing? And she's like, what are you talking about? And he like, just to like, cut to the chase, he like, brings her back to his farm, gives her and her family a cottage, and all she has to do is like, feed him her breast milk. And I'm like, to the author, I'm a little bit like, are you okay? Like, I just, I'm working through something with this one a little bit. You know what I mean? Like, I think there might have been some. Like, this is what I. I have milk to give. That's the only thing I have to give. And like, this man is going to take me back to his farm and like, support me and my kids. Like, yeah, that's a real mood, you know?
[36:27]
B
Yeah, that. I mean, I do think that's like, those are the ones that to me are like the sad lactation kink a little.
[36:37]
C
Exactly. That's exactly right.
[36:40]
B
It's like about. I mean, it just so sad because she's sad.
[36:44]
A
Or is it sad because this poor cowboy, like, just can't find himself a lady?
[36:49]
C
I think it just feels clear that it comes from a place of like, the author's working through something for me, you know?
[36:56]
B
Right. No, that's what I think. I mean. Yeah, right. So the sadness is like, about our complicated feelings, about like, what it means to actually like, care for a family and like the pressures of that and like. Right. Like all that sort of stuff. I mean, it just seems like a big metaphor for like the current state of modern parenting in some ways. Right. Or modern mother motherhood, like, if only. Right. But I think, like sometimes I think the corollary to that is. And like, Sarah and I have talked about this, though I'm not sure you saw it this is like not really that funny that one TikTok of that. Like single mom. No, like a woman, a stay at home mom at 37 who was like, my husband told me he's done, he's getting divorced and I have nothing. Right. Why didn't anybody tell me that I would have nothing? And so I think sometimes like what the fantasy is is the like, no, like what I am doing right now is actually valuable endeavor. Yeah.
[37:53]
A
This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by 831 stories.
[37:57]
B
831 publishes really fun sexy romance novellas that have people talking and binging their entire back catalog. So you might have noticed they're really fun, bright, two tone like color block covers. They're really evocative to me of like those old Penguin classic covers. And the deal is is that these are like read it in one sitting. Contemporary romances featuring women that feel really grounded, adult and fun. So for example, in Alexandra Romanoff's Big Fan, we meet Maya, who is a political strategist who ends up working with her teenage boy band crush. Now that they're adults, Alice gets sent off by her boss to work at a wine harvest in France. Um, and I'm very much looking forward to in January, a WNBA romance rooting interest by Kat DiSabato. A queer love story where a journalist is assigned a profile like essentially the WNBA star player.
[38:57]
A
Perfect for Jen.
[38:58]
B
So very perfect for Jen.
[39:00]
A
Listen, this is now December is over and we're entering gift yourself season. And so you can sign up for a membership to the ones and get every new 831 stories release shipped directly to your door, which I sort of love the idea of because it harkens back to those old harlequin boxes from when we were young. You'll also get lots of perks like a spoonie welcome gift discounts across the site, including their iconic trope hats and early RSVP access to events like their legendary book swaps. So if you're not ready for membership though, that's okay. You can find all of the 831 titles wherever books are sold or go straight to the Source and Prusa. Use all of their books, merch and membership at 831stories.com, where you can use code faded mates to get 10 off your first order. That's 831stories.com code faded mates for 10 off your first order on eligible products. Thanks to 831stories.com and 831stories for sponsoring this week's episode.
[40:04]
C
Because I had been reading Some like banana, like honestly, some of the craziest shit. And then I read this and you know, a lot of these are very short.
[40:12]
A
They're like, yes, so short. Because how much could they. Sure, right?
[40:16]
C
I mean it's. Yeah, but that one, I was a little like, oh, sad. So then I had to go find another. And I mean, I think there's a lot of metaphor in all of these. Honestly. There's another one that I think there's this one called Bigger and it's by these titles by Casey Kane. And so the heroine is this woman, Polly. And she's this like super powerful attorney, but she's like super high powered attorney. Multimillion dollar settlements for her clients. And she is tall and skinny and flat as a board. And she's tired of being powerful and she's tired of being skinny. And so she basically finds this doctor in Spain who can help her grow curves. So she goes to Spain and like all the women that work in the office are just like busty and curvy and they like open their shirts and are just like milk is just pouring out everywhere. And she's like, that, I want that. And so then she goes in and the doctor gives her like three vials and he's like, take this one when you get back to your hotel. Take the next one two hours later and then the other before bed. And she's like, of course, like, you know, five minutes from her hotel. And the she's like, oh, I'm close enough, I might as well just take this first vial now. And of course she like wakes up in the cab and she's like undressed and she's trying to hump the cab driver and she's super hypersexualized. And you know, over the process of all this, like she basically, she does develop curves. And they take her into round two, phase two, which is where she starts lactating. But it's sort of like, it's this very like, I want to become curvy, hypersexual. And it's all like doing everything the man says. It's sort of like being this sort of drone. Like he tells her, get on your knees. She gets on her knees. And like, I mean, obviously that is a kink that we can totally like meld in any of this, right? But there was something so fascinating to me about like basically becoming just like the men I male ideal of like a sex bot. And that's when I was like, who is this for? Like, who is this specific book for?
[42:13]
A
You know, that's one of the good examples of, like, for me, I think those books feel very male gazy.
[42:22]
B
Like, these books are, like, taking gender essentialism and turning them into a milkshake. Right? I mean, it is, right? I mean, literally, like, that's what they are doing. And it's. It is, right. Like, obviously, it's like, is it, like, male gaze or is it just, like, us reckoning with it or both and. Right.
[42:46]
C
Or is this, like, women who. That is, like, what they want is to be the most, like, curvy, desirable. Like, that is a priority? Or is it just, like, fun to read about big boobs that are leaky and dudes that want it? I don't know.
[43:01]
B
Yeah, right. I know. Well, I think it's probably all of them. And I think for any particular reader, it's gonna determine. I mean. Right. I mean, the other thing is, is, like, I'll read some of these, you know, Like, I'll sometimes be like, all right, I'm gonna read this bonkers thing. And, like, I can't tell you what will make me keep going and what will, like, make me be like, oh, no. Right. And. And I think that some of it is. It does feel so, like, hyper local to, like, not just, like, who I am as a woman in the world, but, like, who I am in touch with, like, my body on any given day. And it's like, that is a daily fluctuation.
[43:41]
C
Right? Right.
[43:42]
B
And so I do think, like, part of it is. Is. Is, like, really impossible to predict. Right?
[43:48]
A
Yes. It's interesting because this kind of, like, milkmaid concept, right. Is. Is. So this one I didn't reread for this, but I. I remember. I. I maybe have talked about it on the podcast before because I was so sort of surprised by it. But your low.
[44:07]
B
The.
[44:07]
A
The book that you talked about with the Minotaurs was not by Astro Rose, right?
[44:12]
C
No, it was not. It was by Ash.
[44:14]
B
The one I had to go get off Smashwords, Sarah. Because I remember reading this one, too.
[44:18]
A
The Splash of Cream at the Alabaster Cafe.
[44:20]
C
Oh, my God, that's a great title.
[44:23]
A
Listen.
[44:23]
B
Yeah, I gotta get it off Smashworth now, everybody.
[44:26]
A
I've literally been searching for it today because I was like, I know. I read it and I know it was like a cafe, and I know.
[44:32]
B
So let me tell you, because this one's actually really interesting and it's 45 pages, and I reread it today after I found it on Smash Words.
[44:40]
A
Wait, you didn't already discuss this?
[44:42]
B
Did I know. Okay, no, no, no, no, no, I haven't. But, like, this was one, like. But I mentioned earlier, like, when I had to go find. Cuz I think, you know, I think.
[44:53]
A
And it has a story.
[44:54]
B
I think there are authors for whom, like, they dabbled in some of this stuff. But, like, I think that the. The KU store now is, like, really cracking down on some of it. And so I think you have people who are potentially keeping some of their catalog that's, like, kind of more romance or, like, more acceptable kinks online and then pulling other ones off. I have no idea. But it's just really interesting to see which of this author's books are still on KU and which of them are now. Okay, so here's the other thing, though, that's really interesting before I tell you the plot, because I reread it so you're remembering it correctly, but this book came out In September of 2021, about a month after Morning Glory Milking Farm. Wow. Okay. But so. And I think my point here is. Okay, so for those of you. We're not going to really talk Morning Glory Milking Farm.
[45:47]
A
That's something else that's different.
[45:49]
C
A different kind of another one I greatly enjoy.
[45:53]
A
Same. Me too.
[45:54]
B
Same. Right. Okay, so here's what happens in this book. Summer is our main character. She is desperate for a job, and she lives in New York, and she is like, a job.
[46:05]
C
Just like Violet in Morning Glory Milking Farm. Yeah.
[46:08]
B
Correct. Right. And that's why I was like. No, I really think this is like an inverse conversation. Yes. In conversation with. So she goes to. She ends up. She's like a. She gets turned down for a job as a barista or something. I kind of skimmed over the beginning. I was, you know, wanting to get skimmed over it.
[46:25]
A
46 pages.
[46:26]
B
Couldn't.
[46:27]
A
Well, couldn't do the beginning.
[46:29]
B
Okay. I started at 140, everybody. I found it fine.
[46:32]
A
Okay.
[46:34]
B
So she ends up getting a job at this coffee shop that pays 25 an hour, like, way more than anybody else. And so she's like, great, I need this job. She gets hired. But one of the things that she starts to realize is that, like, there's all these guys coming in and saying, like, I'm a member of the coffee club and one of the other baristas, and they are all stacked. And she actually says this at some point. It's like Hooters, if it was a coffee shop, will take these, like, men into the back. And then, like, she sees them, like, tipping the. Whoever took them back in cash. And she's basically like, okay, I want in on this. What's going on? So she starts to like, sort of investigate. And. And in the meantime, a young man comes in and tries to pretend he's a member of the coffee club. And they like, all the other baristas milk. The milkmaids. Jack can tell that he doesn't actually know what's going on and they like, show him the door. Okay. So in the meantime, Summer figures out that, like, what the other coffee baristas are doing. They're the. The milk maids. Is they are essentially milking men straight from the source in the background rooms. Just like, you can suck on my tits. Okay. And so then it's like kind of like a. There's like a unionizing aspect to it, I would say.
[47:44]
A
Well, they do.
[47:45]
B
They like. Right?
[47:46]
A
She like, gets them all together. Well, because their boss is an asshole.
[47:50]
B
It's not really that. It's that they essentially, they realized that there was a, like a market for this and they approached him kind of like, we need you to be the front for our milking story. Right. Or whatever. So she starts doing this and like, she's getting off on it and it's not intercourse, it's just literally she's having orgasms from being milked. So then Jack comes back. Okay, now this is the part where.
[48:15]
A
Really she's taking a drug, right?
[48:18]
B
Yes, it's a drug. Yes.
[48:20]
A
Actually, it's like an aphrodisiac plus.
[48:23]
B
Correct. It's called Cassandra. And the thing with the drug is that if. And like, it was on the market as a birth control pill, but this was a side effect, so they took it off the market. But then these women, along with like, their. The head woman, actually Kimmy had been pregnant and sort of like realized that like, her. Her man was into it and then she was pregnant again and he left her. So she, you know, like, she was like essentially a businesswoman.
[48:48]
C
All of this in 45 pages.
[48:50]
A
I know. So fast. I know.
[48:52]
B
It really was.
[48:53]
A
Which sometimes I read one of these and I think to myself, this is not a first timer. Like, no, this is somebody who knows how to plot a book and just like had a. Had an idea, like kinky story.
[49:05]
B
Correct. So then.
[49:06]
A
And heard that know who. If you're out there, Astro, I'll keep your secrets forever. Yeah, I'll probably tell Jen. Honestly. But other than that.
[49:15]
B
And Filthy daddy came between us, it'll.
[49:19]
A
Just be four of us.
[49:21]
B
Yeah. So anyway, here's the part then that's really funny. Jack returns and is sort of like, well, what are they doing in the back building? And. And she's like, what back building? And then the, the funniest part about it, and this is as far as I got before we had to start recording, is instead of being like upset to know that there essentially is like also a part of it, she's like, what are these bitches keeping from me now? Like, she basically had to fight her way into being like a milkmaid at the coffee club. And so.
[49:48]
A
But yeah, I was totally like, it.
[49:50]
B
Is a very short 45 pages. But then she goes out back and it's basically like milking orgy and lots of people.
[49:59]
C
Oh my God.
[49:59]
A
So wait, is the second book fun? It's fun.
[50:03]
B
It is super fun. Yeah.
[50:04]
C
Is there more? I mean, it's the second one, like A Splash of Jesus at the Alabaster cafe.
[50:09]
A
Oh. It's like. It's like this person just had this.
[50:11]
B
One book in them. I mean, there's all their other books. They've written a lot of books that are like kind of daddy. Right? And then they actually have a recent series that is more like a.
[50:22]
A
Almost.
[50:22]
B
It's a dark romance that I. It's. It looks a little too dark romance for me. So, like, I think. But yeah, you're right. I'm convinced that this is a person.
[50:32]
A
It's a person for sure.
[50:33]
B
Yeah.
[50:34]
A
Writing too strong.
[50:35]
B
Yeah. This is a. This is a pen name for, you know, someone who's just like, okay, now here's where I'm putting the real dirty shit.
[50:44]
C
I'm so into that. Like, I am so into the idea of having a banana pants idea and just like writing a 45 page story and putting it out there. Like, come on, brain.
[50:54]
A
Yeah, exactly. I know. If only I could make my brain do it. I know the, you know, I also just feel like this is the place for us to talk about the Ar Taboo name, which is so Alexa Riley, who was sort of like back in the day, like they started.
[51:13]
B
They.
[51:13]
A
It's a. It's a dual. It's a. It's a writing team. And they were writing like Jessica and before Jessica, like really short, sexy, hot, very.
[51:25]
C
A lot of taboo. Yeah, super dirty.
[51:28]
A
Like a lot of daddy. A lot of age gap. A lot of like, I'm with my teacher, I'm with my coach. Like that kind of stuff. Like kinky, like taboo romance. And then they launched on their website, their private website, AR Taboo, which is not always like, it is like more kinky, more taboo, more intense. Like some of this stuff is like incesty. Like there's. It's very taboo, but they have obviously a lactation kink, like fan. Fan base because a ton of those taboo books include lactation kink. So if you are unbothered by like going into the sort of dark world of taboo romance that you're welcome. You're gonna have a great time this holiday season.
[52:25]
B
Yeah. And a lot of these books you have to like, listen, you have to buy direct. You have to go to their website.
[52:31]
A
Amazon, because it's.
[52:32]
B
Yeah.
[52:34]
A
This week's episode of Fate of Maze is sponsored by Avon Books, publishers of Stasia Starks. We who will die.
[52:43]
B
Okay, so this is a slow burn romantasy set in a Roman inspired world with vampires. Our heroine is Arvel. She and her younger brothers live in the perilous Thorn district. She's faced with a really impossible choice. She basically has made a magically binding vow to do the impossible, which is kill the Emperor. Only the Emperor is an ancient vampire created by a God. So in order to like sort of get herself in the position where she can actually even carry this out, she has to first enter the Sundering, which is an arena where only the fastest, strongest and deadliest survive long enough to be selected to be part of the Emperor's elite guard.
[53:23]
A
Okay.
[53:25]
B
But then what happens is essentially her brother's lives are in the balance and so she has no choice but to ally herself with the man who once shattered her heart and with the Emperor's sadistic son, Roerich. Both of these guys are vampires. Their motives are impossible to pin down. But Rorik seems to have the key to understanding the powers. Arvella is developing these abilities that would both put a price on her head if they were discovered by the Emperor, but also allow her to actually kill him. So to survive the arena and complete her mission, Arvel must get to the bottom of a concealer conspiracy that will change everything she thought she knew about herself and these two vampires who are deeply entwined with her destiny.
[54:06]
A
Well, if you are looking for a romantasy set against ancient Rome with vampires and second chances and a love triangle between two brothers, this book is for you. You can read we who Will Die right now in print, ebook, audiobook or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Stassia Stark and Avon Books for sponsoring this week's episode. So I read a couple. I read two romances that I would like fully like unabashedly recommend and that, I mean that's not true. I, I obviously recommend like a lot of these, but I'm talking about like.
[54:51]
B
Full length in a different way.
[54:52]
A
Yeah, full length romances where I would be like, I mean I wouldn't necessarily recommend them to like the mom at my kids school, like just right.
[55:00]
C
But like a faded mate.
[55:02]
A
Close friends. That's a nice personal faded mate.
[55:05]
B
People who are put double headphones in and are ready 50 minutes in.
[55:09]
A
They're like the ladies who are still here and gentlemen who are still here.
[55:15]
B
Okay.
[55:16]
A
And the first one is one that I had seen recommended a bunch and I actually clearly I bought it like two or three years ago and just never read it. And that is the Wild One by Daisy Jane. And I have that.
[55:30]
C
I don't know if I've read that. Okay, go ahead, go ahead.
[55:33]
A
So the, the premise here is it's reverse age gap. I mean at least that's, that's how it's billed. But that means you know, she's older. She's a woman who is, has been left by her husband who divorced her. Like like asked her for a divorce. The day she realized that she was pregnant, he left. Now she's a single mom, she's really strapped for cash. Like again this kind of mythology of like the women who do that, who do this in the books like often there is this kind of like I'm really down on my luck. I'm. She's an Uber driver and in this small town because she can like keep her kid with like the kid can, the car seat can go with her everywhere. And she, she like falls for the guy who owns the local automotive shop which actually it turns out like is not just a local one. He's like, he owns like 2000 automobile. He's the CEO of like a major corporation. Sure. Because he inherited this corporate. It doesn't matter, not important. But of course like he's a king. So he's in his late 20s. Jen, you'll love this.
[56:41]
C
He has late 20s king.
[56:44]
A
Yeah. Jen, you'll. He has a tattoo of Marlon Brando on his chest, which made me laugh because I thought of you instantly. But like listen, I'm sorry.
[56:51]
B
The Christian gray of it all.
[56:52]
A
Her book is called the Wild One. And, and that's. And like it's refer like it's a Marlon Brando movie. The Wild One. So anyway, point is she is you know, super. She has like enormous, she had enormous breasts to begin with and now she is you know, lactating She's. She's breastfeeding. And he is so wildly turned on by, like, the shape of her, by, like, just everything about her. And she is like, you're 10, 15, 10 years younger than me. And, like, this. 10 years younger than me. And, like, this can't be. Like, you don't want any part of this. You're a young, strapping man with a Marlon Brando tattoo. I'm a mom who, like, is. Is just trying to hold it together. And finally, she. And he's like, no, but I really.
[57:47]
B
I really do.
[57:48]
A
Like, I really want to take you out. And it's very cute. He, like. He, like, uses the Uber app to call her every day to, like, get. Get her to come and pick him up and take him to work every day so he can have the, like, 10 minutes in the car with her every day. And he asks her out in. On every car ride. And, like, finally she gives in, and, like, they go out, and he is, like, so into the fact that she's breast. That she's breastfeeding. Like, she's producing milk. And, like, all he can think about is, like, he just wants to touch her. He wants to hold her, he wants to, like, fuck her, he wants to get on the tit. He wants to do it all.
[58:21]
B
She's.
[58:21]
A
Her body is a wonderland. And. And it's like, there's also, like, a ton of, like, you know, will they, won't they? He's sort of reckoning with the death of his father. She's reckoning with, like, the loss of her husband. She feels very sad. She feels very unlovable. Like, this is not the kind of life she can have. It's like, she's not the kind of person who gets this ending, this happy, happy, happy ending. And it was really compelling. And also, like, the breastfeeding was, like, the sex kink. Like, there was. It was just very clear that these two just wanted it the whole time. And I really enjoyed this one. Like, I would recommend it to anybody.
[59:04]
C
I feel like that is. That is the book that we were all, like, looking for. Right? That was, like, the golden goose that I went into this experiment looking for. And, like, it's hard to find, but I'm like, I'm totally gonna read that.
[59:17]
A
Yeah. And it's not like, listen, it does not. It's halfway through before there's, like, sex on the page, and it's. It's really entertaining. I had a great time with it.
[59:28]
C
That's awesome.
[59:29]
A
Halfway. But it's not right away.
[59:31]
B
This author I've read other books by them. I think that they. I think, overall, tend to write really interesting kink of all kinds.
[59:44]
A
What else have you read?
[59:47]
B
Please. I'm gonna try to.
[59:48]
A
Yeah, I wanna know.
[59:49]
B
Well, I think my point, though, is, like, in most of these books, it's like regular people who kind of can't. Don't even know how to name what they're looking for until they, like, kind of find it. Right. So I have also read. And, like, some of these I, like, started. And then some I didn't. There's, like, a bunch of daddy ones that have, like, all the names are, like, real daddy shit. Right? Like, where it's like, all the names are, like, about sweets. One is called Cherry Piece. Use your magic. Oh, okay. Right. But I also read, and you guys listen. Not for everyone. I am not saying this is for everyone, but I will read. Weird. So, fine. I shouldn't. No kink shaming. But this.
[60:34]
A
I think most people be like, we're.
[60:36]
C
Talking about lactation kink in this episode. So I think that sort of goes without saying.
[60:40]
A
Apologizing.
[60:41]
B
I don't know.
[60:42]
A
It was even.
[60:42]
B
I was like, oh, but these people are still here.
[60:45]
A
Right.
[60:46]
B
I would say, though, for me, it was. Was like. I think this author. It's, like, really genuinely is like, okay. Like, okay. One of the things I'm always saying is, like, people aren't as curious about their characters as they should be anymore. And so when you read something where you're like, this isn't really my thing, but, like, this author is, like, deeply interested in how characters could get to this place.
[61:05]
A
Yes.
[61:06]
C
Right.
[61:06]
B
Right.
[61:07]
A
And so I would agree with that. There was character work in this book.
[61:10]
B
Yeah. And I. So the one I read recently, I think it came out this year, is called Father Knows Best. But. But, like, here's what happens. It is her wedding night, and she's had. They've had. I think they've had sex, if I remember. But he seems to have, like, a lower sex drive than her, and she gives him, like, a. A wedding night present that's like a sex toy for her that she wants him to use. And he is actually. And I want to say it's like a butt plug. I don't even think it's, like, that intense, but he kind of freaks out about it. And she, like, runs out of the room and runs into his father, who is like, a really, like, sexy, hot guy who's kind of like, what's going on? What. What did my son do? And essentially, like, ends up Kind of essentially offering to, like, almost, like, be their sex surrogate. And I was like, okay, this is really fucking over the top. But you know what? It felt like I said, deeply interested.
[62:14]
A
I'm gonna read the shit out of that book. That sounds.
[62:16]
C
I was gonna say, I know. I'm gonna read that one, too. When. When I heard the title, I was thinking it was gonna be, like, her daddy. And I was, like, not into it, but.
[62:24]
B
No, but, like, literally. And, like, it's, like, half. I mean, like you said, too, like, halfway through the book where this happens, and you're kind of like, wait, what's going on here? And so. So it's like, there's this. And, like, the father and son are not very close. And so it's also this, like, really weird part about, like, how do you repair this relationship with your, like, grown adult son? And it is. Is it fucking his wife? And so I don't. I mean. And again, I'm not saying that this book would work for everybody, but I think this is a book where this author really was like, what? Under what circumstances could. Could something like this happen? Who are the people who could get into this situation? And I feel like that's where a lot of kink becomes just, like, kind of porny, if we're being honest.
[63:13]
C
Right.
[63:14]
B
If it's just, like, we're getting off. But here is someone who's like. And I'm not saying, by the way, I don't believe that, like, you have to have a reason for being kinky. Right? But this. These books in general, I was really like, oh, okay. And I. I read the whole thing. I just. And I wouldn't say I thought it was, like, the sexiest book I've ever read, but I was really interested in it. And I think the author was interested in it, too.
[63:38]
A
So that was the interesting thing about this. The Wild One book by her also is, like, I didn't. Was a. It was a contemporary romance novel.
[63:49]
B
Yeah.
[63:49]
A
Like, where she was interested in the negotiation of these two people as people falling for each other and reckoning with themselves and evolving as, you know, through whatever challenges they were evolving through, and then also deeper into the tit.
[64:04]
C
But I think that's when we also get back to the idea of, like, the gaze and who the book is for, because obviously, those books are for us, for the three of us and other readers like us, where we want to see character work. We want. We're curious about why they are the way they are, what drives them, what turns them on, like, how they relate to each other, how they find that, how they compliment each other. Like, we're interested in that. Whereas I think, like, a lot of these stories that we've read, they serve a different audience. An audience that just wants to, like, open a Kindle and have, like, just dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty smut. And like, there is nothing wrong with that.
[64:38]
A
No. You know, we enjoy that on more days than New Year's Eve.
[64:45]
B
So for me, I would say, like, Elena dawn is probably like the hybrid of that. Right. So it's like really dirty. It's mostly kink. But, like, it's more than just like, oh, here's a person who can write a few sentences. Like they're, you know. And the one. There are kind of two that I read. There's one is called now this is the one that's like, you guys, gender essentialism is a milkshake. Right? Which is mountain Daddy's milk and honey.
[65:12]
A
Oh, I love that you just said gender essentialism. We're talking about breast cancer. Breastfeeding. Like, this is. Yeah, but I know every book it feels.
[65:19]
B
Yes. And sometimes it's even like, more intense. And I think the reason for this is. And you guys, listen, this is like, this is not going to work for a lot of people. Fine. But she. It was her stepfather, right. When she was younger. And so it was. This was her mom's husband. And then, like, she hasn't seen him in, I don't know, 10 or 15 years. And now she's like in her early 20s and she, like, comes back home and is basically like. But she's, you know, again, like, flat chested and. Right. Like kind of what Lo was talking about earlier with, like, the bigger. Right where. And like, basically it's like what she really wants is like, I'm going to be a woman and I'm going to please you when I have these huge, massive tips. You know what I mean? I get it. And so I think that's the part for me that felt different is a really explicit, like, I'll be womanly enough for daddy. Yeah. You know what I mean? As opposed to just like, Like, I have a body that makes milk. Yeah.
[66:15]
C
Right.
[66:15]
B
Yeah. You know what?
[66:16]
C
I'm actually wondering now when you said gender essentialism, I did not dig into this and we'll have to ask Adriana, but, like, I wonder if there's any abo stuff where there's like, male lactation.
[66:27]
A
Oh, I'm sure there isn't.
[66:29]
C
I'm sure there is because, like, embryg and all of that, you know, while.
[66:33]
A
I was searching and I was like, well, I don't know anything. Like, I. I know, but. Yeah, I'm sorry, I still don't understand the Omega verse.
[66:40]
C
I know, but I also feel like I'm sort of like, letting the audience down here by not bringing at least one. Like an mprague male lactation thing.
[66:48]
A
Well, we ask Adriana and if there is something, we'll put it into show notes.
[66:53]
B
Everything okay. I can tell you all right now already for sure. There's like heated rivalry and Prague, where Shane is the one, because.
[67:02]
A
Oh, well, I don't know.
[67:04]
B
Right. So it's on there. Right. But yeah, I would say, like, for me, I'm not. That's not. Mpreg is really not for me. Yeah. So I did not read any of that. Yeah. I la.
[67:15]
A
What, Two New Year's Eves ago, we did Omega verse with Adriana and Ali Hazelwood, and I still don't. I did two hours on it and.
[67:24]
B
I'm like, so they're werewolves?
[67:25]
A
I need like a full course. It's two hours. It's not enough.
[67:30]
B
Yeah, they're.
[67:31]
A
I still think they're werewolves. I know they're not.
[67:33]
B
I don't understand.
[67:33]
C
Understand.
[67:34]
B
Yeah. So this. This series, the. The. The one. It's, like, called Spice in the Mountains. In the first book, it's just the two of them, and then, like, his friends show up and are kind of into her tits too. And then in the second book, she wants to get pregnant, but he can't have kids. And so they invite the friends in to essentially have like a gang bang with her. And then who knows?
[67:58]
A
Who's the dad? Daddy.
[68:00]
B
It's just lots of. Could be anyone. But I will say that also leads. Yeah, it was. But it was a book. It felt like a book.
[68:08]
A
It didn't.
[68:09]
B
A very, very dirty, filthy book.
[68:10]
C
But still.
[68:11]
B
Yes.
[68:12]
A
Well, we have done a Breeding episode. Did we do that on New Year's? Maybe.
[68:17]
B
I'm sure we must have.
[68:18]
A
It must have been New Year's. Of course. I think that was with Joanna Shoop. Faded mates.
[68:26]
B
Yes. Searching it up. Really was.
[68:28]
C
Yeah.
[68:29]
B
Because we did. Oh.
[68:29]
A
When she did that reading Kink with Millifanelli.
[68:32]
B
Yep.
[68:32]
A
That was last year.
[68:34]
B
Two years ago.
[68:34]
A
The 23rd, 2023. So you can head over there, because I do think the. The Lactation King and the Breeding King, kind of. They. They can be knit together in an interesting way. And so, yeah, like, if you like one, I think you'll be predisposed to, like, the Other, I agree, tend toward both.
[69:01]
C
Yeah, I do love the mashup of the tropes, though. Like, I know I already mentioned, like, the Minotaur. Why choose adaptation? Like, I love that this is one that, like, pairs very nicely with a range of tropes. So I'm just, like, for any, like, aspiring writers out there, like, don't be afraid to just, like, drop a little dribble of a lactation.
[69:24]
A
Oh, lo.
[69:28]
B
There it is. This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Lumi Gummies. Consistent, mellow, and super delicious, Lume Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of the day de stressor, a midday mood boost, or help getting the best sleep ever. Lumi Gummies, have a strain that's right for you.
[69:51]
A
So today I was. I'm so excited that we're recording Lumiad right now, because today I was reading a romance novel, and the heroine was, like, spinning out. It was the third act. Like, some stuff had gone down, and she was with her best friend, like, explaining what had gone down, and she was definitely spinning. And the best friend in the middle of the whole thing was, like, you need a gummy. Reaches into her purse, pulls out, like, a vial, dumps the gummy into the heroine's hand. She immediately takes it and continues with her conversation, like, just spinning out until, like, she starts to just, like, chill out. And all I could think was, that's a Lumi Gummy. That's product placement. That's a romance gummy, which is a Lumi Gummy.
[70:29]
B
The only gummies in romance are Lumi Gummies. We're gonna talk to them about making some little gummy tins maybe.
[70:34]
A
Oh, my God, that would be so cute. Lumi, listen up. That would be so fun. Anyway, if you are a romance heroine or have one in your life, yes.
[70:44]
B
Then Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. Go to loominggummies.com, that's L U M I gummies dot com, and use the code faded mates for 30 off your order. Again, that's L U M I Gummies dot com, code, faded mates, lumigummies code, Faded Mates. And thank you, as always, to Lumi Gummies for sponsoring this week's episode and 2026. I also read another Elena dawn book called Daisy Unchained that I thought was more interesting for, like, how is she pregnant? Or how she. How is she nurse? Like, how is she lactating? What is this? I can't even make words. What's the science behind this. It's not the magic. You know, the magic thing or whatever.
[71:29]
C
Magic vials.
[71:30]
B
Yeah. Listen to this one. Okay, again, you guys, this is full on the wildest thing I've ever read. And again, I did. I read it all. Yes, I did.
[71:37]
A
Fine.
[71:37]
C
I don't care.
[71:39]
B
In this one. It's a stepbrother romance, right? And the part that's, like, really interesting is. So there's, like, an age gap, right? He's. She's. I don't know, like, young. She's, like, 20, and he's 37 or something. And her. And I can't even really remember, but, like, she's essentially, like, babysitting for her. Like, her stepfather. She has a stepfather and a stepmother. Her stepfather is his real father. And there's, like, a baby in the house. And she has been essentially, like, treated like the help. She's, like, just being expected to take care of this baby, whose name is, by the way, is Titus. Titus is the baby's name. Fine. I was like, sure, why not? And I don't know why that made me laugh. Why do these babies have wild names?
[72:23]
A
I have one where the baby's name. That one I was just talking about. The baby's name is Jets. J, E, T, T. Sure. Okay.
[72:30]
C
Okay.
[72:31]
B
And here's the thing. That's real. And she almost is, like, trapped in the house. Like, she can't.
[72:37]
A
She.
[72:37]
B
And she has been, like. She's been treated like the help, but also, like, kind of daddy's little girl. And there's, like, a lot of Cinderella with lactation. Yes, exactly. And she is very unhappy and can tell that, like, something is wrong and not right. But the only person who likes to hang out with her is the baby. And apparently. And part of me is like, this, to me, feels like urban legend, which is like, you can induce lactation if you let a baby nurse you, even if there's nothing there. Right? Like, so. Even if. You know what I mean. And I was like, is that real? Anyway, that's what happens.
[73:16]
A
Well, we have a scientist with us. Did you do any research on these?
[73:20]
C
I'm everything above the neck. Like, I am not below the neck.
[73:23]
B
Like, I'm a neurologist.
[73:25]
C
Yeah.
[73:25]
A
So close.
[73:26]
B
So close. So she would, like, let Titus do this for comfort. And then her milk came in, and now she's like, well, I guess I'm doing this. And then her brother, her stepbrother, Cyrus. I can't remember again, these names. Walks in, and it's basically like, what the. The Is Happening.
[73:47]
A
And where did this baby come from? Her.
[73:51]
B
The stepfather. I don't know. This is not my business.
[73:56]
C
Half brother.
[73:57]
B
Yes. Cyrus's half brother. Right, right. And her stepbrother. Yes. Something like that.
[74:04]
A
Look at you.
[74:05]
B
That's so impressive. I was like, I don't know. And there's no. They're not related. No, no, no, no. And the thing that's like, Then really fascinating is, like, they have incredibly dirty sex. Like, and I mean, like, he is basically like that. You can pump and give that baby bottles, but those are mine now. And then it's just like. And like, it's anal. He's like, you could do anything. I'm all into it. And, like. And she loves it because she feels like there's this really interesting thing about, like, motherhood for her. I've been forced in the position of caring for the. This baby, but, like, not actually getting any of the, like, fun benefits of it, namely, and therefore, this is great for me as well. And it's just honestly, super over the top.
[74:49]
A
But.
[74:50]
B
So, yeah, I think Elena Dawn's really leaning hard into this in lots of ways.
[74:54]
C
But I like that, you know, it's. There's this. There's a backstory there of why she might have parental attachment issues. And, like, there's, you know, I mean, there's at least an attempt there to create character depth.
[75:05]
B
Yes.
[75:05]
A
And it does feel like a. Like a fairy tale, which a lot of these do feel like. You know, we've been talking so much on the podcast recently about how, like, contemporary romance is. Like, they don't feel. They, like they have magic in them anymore and, like. Or many of them, like, seem to not have, like, that magical spark.
[75:25]
B
Yeah.
[75:26]
A
And these books all have, like. Like, a real element of, like, none of this would ever happen.
[75:32]
B
Everybody.
[75:33]
C
Right.
[75:33]
A
Like, this really is a full magical experience. But we like that.
[75:37]
C
And we don't need to be grounded in reality. I think it's okay to even in contemporary fiction, to, like, in contemporary romance, to start putting elements of the, like, unbelievable in there. Because that's why we go to romance, you know, like, we don't all have to have, like, a business that, you know, everybody, like.
[75:55]
A
Yeah.
[75:55]
C
Has done, like, your starter job.
[75:57]
A
Doesn't to feel like, you know, like you're something an itch is being scratched that is, like, really magnificent. And I think, like, I mean, we're here with you, one half of, like, somebody. A team that does it perfectly. But I think that there is.
[76:17]
B
Yeah.
[76:17]
A
I think these books all part of why they are so delightful is because you're like, this is insane.
[76:23]
C
I know. And they were just reading for fun. I think that's one of the, that's what's one of the best parts of doing this episode is like, I did not. I had so much fun looking for books. And there was no. And there was the one that I sent you guys, but I couldn't find it. It was like the, like milking my sister or something. And I was like, who's gonna do this one? And I guess it's too low. And I was like, oh, I couldn't find it. And I was very sad.
[76:45]
B
No, I think that's it though. I bet if you went to that author's. I think like some of it, like I said, when it's like this level, you gotta really be like on, on their websites. And I, I do think like again, like you have to really know what you can deal with or not. Like step brother, fine. But like some of these, you're like, whoa, is that real? Bye.
[77:05]
A
So I have another one that I really enjoyed and it is the sort of furthest away. I feel like we've been like getting tamer as we've. We've gone.
[77:15]
B
I think so.
[77:16]
A
And I want to talk about Julia Wolf. P.S. you're intolerable. Which is a straight up boss secretary, like boss assistant romance.
[77:27]
C
Listen, I. Sign me up.
[77:29]
A
I know we're gonna come to you. Christina, Lauren, in just a moment. I'm teeing you up to talk about yours. But it. What I found really. So this, the tee up here is that, you know, again, a girl on her, you know, down on her luck, she's pregnant after a one night stand with like a really good friend who she bought a house with. And her friend was like, I am, I'm in. Like I'm into co parent. Like we're not right for each other, but I'm into co parent. If you're into co parent. And she's like, yeah, okay, I guess we'll do this. Like he sort of convinces her that she wants to have this baby. I sort of liked the. At least nod to, you know, we. I did think about whether I wanted to have this baby or not. Right, right. And so, and then of course, like, you know, two months before the baby's due, he's in the wind. Right? And literally in the wind. He's like in Australia in the wind. And so she is stuck with this. And he's taken all her money with him. Like she's stuck. She has no money. She's got a house. She's underwater on the house, like, they were going to flip it and sell it for more money. And, like, that obviously is not happening. She has gotten a job with this, like, absolutely, like, the grumpiest, billionairiest real estate developer east man you can find. Just beautifully hot, extremely tall, all 27 years old. Sure. Exactly.
[79:02]
B
Christian Grey. God damn you.
[79:05]
A
And she and he, like, it's just they. They have a very, like, professional relationship. He never. He's just like. He never smiles. He never interacts with her. He, like, you know, whatever.
[79:16]
C
Why do we love that so much?
[79:18]
A
Me too.
[79:18]
B
I do. I'm garbage. We all love it.
[79:20]
A
It's trash.
[79:21]
B
Yes.
[79:22]
A
And every. And he's, like, very precise. And he wants her to write his daily schedule out on a particular kind of paper every day in handwritten notes, like, as a handwritten, like, document. And at the end of every document, she writes, like, P.S. and she tells them off, like, in a different, unique way, and then, like, carefully cuts it off and then, like, delivers what, you know, awesome little, like, all the little. You know, I love anything like this, like a epistle or anything. And she saves all the little slips in an envelope in her desk drawer under a box of tampons because no one will look under there, right? And then she has this baby, and she, you know, goes off to, like, have the baby, and he is. And, like, he kind of shows up at her house at one point because he's like, absolutely. He's going out of his mind because her replacement has been doing these schedules, and they're in. The paper's an inch longer than the paper, and he's like, it's making me insane. What happened? And he goes to her desk and to, like, find. And. And then the new assistant is like, I don't understand. I'm just using the notebook that Here, like, it's the notebook. And he goes to the desk to, like, and he discovers. Why would she need tampons? She's been pregnant this whole time. He finds the envelope, finds all the little slips. Like, he's. And so he goes to her house, discovers that she's living in this, like, house that's, like, you know, the contractor who was flipping it took all the. Took all the stuff out of the way. And so, like, here we are, right? Like, this is the book, right? Like, you're just. I'm, like, tearing through it. It is really fun. He's Flummox. He's an. He's an exasperated, like, confused man, which is my favorite flavor when they're like.
[81:04]
B
You'Re not living somewhere safe.
[81:06]
A
Yeah.
[81:06]
B
Yeah.
[81:06]
A
He literally walks into the house.
[81:08]
B
Put it in my veins.
[81:09]
A
She's like, I can't.
[81:11]
B
You.
[81:11]
A
Jen, you would love this. He walks into the house.
[81:13]
B
I'm gonna read this. She.
[81:14]
A
She doesn't even have a floor, right? Like, the contractor wasn't paid, so took everything out. And, like, then he, like, leaves. He gives her a Target card or something as, like a congratulations on your baby. And then he leaves. And then, like, two minutes later, he walks back in and he's like, you have to move into my house. Like, you can't live here with a baby. And then she's moved into her boss's house, and he's, like, obsessing, obsessed with her. But, like, thus, they're not fucking. Like, it's just. And now she's, like, nursing, and he's, like, kind of, like, obsessed with her. And then there is this great. And then they kind of like, discover, like, they're both into each other and so they start a relationship. And it's really a lovely kind of slow roll toward their relationship again. Like, halfway through the book, they kiss for the first time. And it's like, you've been waiting for it.
[82:09]
C
Yeah.
[82:09]
A
Desperate for it. And then they have sex. And, like, the breastfeeding is in there, the lactation is in there, but it's just, like, part of it. Like, it's not. It's not kink. It's just like, this is what I love. I love your body.
[82:27]
B
Yeah.
[82:28]
A
I love everything about you. I love. And he, of course, has also fallen in love with her daughter. Like, he's. It's a. Listen, this is a straight up, like, Harlequin presents in a lot of ways. Like, it just sort of. He's P. S. You're intolerable.
[82:42]
C
Oh, that's right. I'm into.
[82:45]
A
It's really. I had a great time. It has been a while since I have had a book where, like, I put it down and then, like, went through my day and was like, oh, I can't wait to go to bed tonight. So.
[82:56]
C
I know. I love that feeling so much. And I really opened my Amazon to get it and look at what was.
[83:03]
A
I downloaded that one, too.
[83:05]
C
I'm showing this picture. It's thirsty, and it's basically just tea boobs, everybody.
[83:10]
B
I just want to. No, hold that up again. I'm going to take a screenshot of you doing it so I could just be, like, amazing. Get your approval for that in a minute.
[83:21]
A
You will. I think you Will, both of you will really enjoy this one. It is really lovely. And it's one of four. It's a four. There are four books in the series, and they're all his friends. And so I'm gonna go read the other one.
[83:34]
C
Oh, my God. This sounds great, but what I.
[83:36]
A
But. So this is where I want to talk about you, Christina, because I feel like you guys, when you wrote Beautiful, The. The Beautiful, Beautiful Beloved, I think I feel like you were aiming for this kind of thing. This kind of like, I love your body.
[83:54]
C
Yeah.
[83:55]
A
Not like, hey, let's get kinky and on the tit.
[83:58]
C
Yeah. I think a lot of it was, you know, we were trying to do something different with this couple versus, like, Chloe and Bennett. And at the time, we were really trying to, like, you know, for the Beautiful series, we wanted every couple to kind of have their own thing that they did. Right. And so we were more successful, I think, with the first three books with Beautiful Bastard, Beautiful Stranger, and Beautiful Player, where there was sort of like the, you know, boss and assistant, the strangers, the voyeurism. And then for Will and Hannah, it was the sort of teacher, student, like, let me show teach you how to date kind of thing. But for Max and Sarah from Beautiful Stranger, we had the novellas.
[84:36]
B
One of my favorites, by the way. My favorites.
[84:39]
A
Yay.
[84:40]
B
Have I read all of these more than once?
[84:42]
A
Multiple times? Of course.
[84:44]
C
We have, you know, novellas for each of the couples. And so Max and Sarah, well, they had a couple for them, but one of their novellas is Beautiful Beloved. And so when in Beautiful Player, which is Will and Hannah's book, Max and Sarah find out that Sarah's pregnant. And so we wanted to do something because their thing was going to the second club and having, like, sex with, like, you know, one way or two way mirror. I don't know. I'm not a detective. But anyway, people could watch them, but they couldn't see out.
[85:16]
B
Right.
[85:17]
C
And. And so they're, you know, in this room, they're having sex, and people can watch them, but they don't know who's there. And it's. That's, like, really, that was Sarah's thing. So when she has the baby, she's very much like, I don't feel like myself. Like, I haven't gone out.
[85:33]
B
I.
[85:33]
C
You know, just like this milk factory, I just am changing diapers. Like, I. And I don't know how. I wouldn't even know how to integrate, like, what our life is now into what was our life before. And, like, the Fact that they, you know, they. Things did move really fast. She got pregnant really fast. Like they hadn't been together that long. And so, you know, in, in that book, that novella, Max is trying to figure out, like, how can I help her feel like herself again? And so, you know, he basically just wants her to know that, you know, the way her body is different is, you know, like totally. He's hot for it. And you know, they go to the club again and I think it was just, it was fun to like explore that because at that point Christina and I had both had kids and so we sort of could remember that feeling of just like, how do I get back to being a woman and not just a mother? But the funniest thing was so our publisher at the time, it wasn't Jen Bergstrom at the time, the publisher wanted to do this cover. And it's because the COVID is Sarah. It's like the profile of this very woman and it's beautiful. Like her body is just like very voluptuous. But in the. The publisher wanted to do a woman. It's like tight skinny jeans. And, and, and we were like, but she's had a baby. Like, the whole point is like, this is her like post baby body. She's like, yeah, but like everybody just wants to get back into their skinny jeans. And I was like, I am like, I have a 4 year old as my youngest and I am in my skinny jeans. Like, that is not my priority. So it was just funny to sort of think about the different approaches to it. But yeah, like, it was really fun to think about. Like, how does this specific couple that we met before we even knew that they were going to become pregnant get back to this place that we wrote them in a book a year ago?
[87:12]
A
Yeah, I mean, I loved, I loved that because I think it was one of the first. I mean, short of Sandra Brown. Like, it really harkened back to like the. This isn't kink. This is like just them loving each other and this is like part of what they do. And I do think that that is rare with this particular thing in romance. Like, I think often it is. I mean, and that's part of why we're doing this on New Year's Eve because like, it is kinky. But yeah, so I, I'm glad that you were able to talk about that because I loved, I loved that. I love that epilogue. And I also loved this. This P.S. you're intolerable book.
[87:52]
C
Yeah, I just got it. But honestly, it's so great that there's a range, like we've been saying this whole time. Like, you know, you can go from, like, drop you into the craziest scenario all the way to this thing where they don't even. You don't even see the lactation king show up until, like, the last third of the book, you know?
[88:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think, like, that's the part. I mean, I always. I always love beautiful Beloved, too, because, like, there's this part where, like, it is about, like, it just felt. I don't know. I mean, listen, I. One of the things that's always really interesting is, like, when people sort of are interrogating the idea of the hea, right? And it's kind of like this, to me, is like, the perfect example of, like, what an HEA really should look like, which is like, we're evolving together, right? Like, there. This is a way that we are, like, we are still the people we are, even though our lives are different. And, like, what we're trying to do is, like, like always just, like, reconnect in the way that's going to, like, be good for you or me or both of us. And, you know, and I think, like, that's the part about this I remember, like, I think at the end, like, there's a scene where they actually get to the club and, like. Like, they're kind of a known quantity. Like, people like to watch them and they haven't been around in a while. And it's kind of. It's like, really sexy. But it's also really clear that, like, what they needed from that has changed. Like, now that. And I just thought it was really terrific. Right. And that's why sometimes think, like, you know, if you're a person who's like, I don't. I mean, you know, I don't want to read epilogues or I'm not interested. I think that there are times I am very deeply interested in kind of. And I feel like this type of thing where it's a novella is, like, sort of perfect, right? Like, you're not trying to re litigate the hea. What you're trying to do is say, like, here's what this might look like a year from now, two years, years from now, however many. And I always really love this one.
[89:43]
C
So thank you. I mean, it's actually interesting that you make that point about the book that Christina and I wrote, because I totally did not really put together until now that everything that I've read and most of what we've talked about today is heroes that come into the book when the woman is already with a child lactating, or he induces it like he doesn't know her before. And so that the whole thing is sort of about him becoming obsessed with her because of this thing that her body's doing versus, like an established relationship where this is a change that's happening and he embraces it too. And I think that, that it would be. I want more of those. So I would love to see if there's like, when you post this.
[90:22]
B
Yeah.
[90:23]
C
People in the comments can share other books where they explore sort of like, well, okay, let's. Let's change together. You know, this is not.
[90:30]
B
Yeah, right.
[90:32]
A
Well, maybe that is a little bit where the line is between like, erotic romance and like straight up just romance.
[90:42]
C
Romance with. Right.
[90:43]
B
Yeah.
[90:44]
A
Lactation kink.
[90:46]
C
Yeah.
[90:47]
A
Straight up romance on the tit.
[90:50]
B
So before we wrap up, I know that this is. We probably maybe should have done this at the beginning, but, like, low. You also had some really exciting news this week.
[91:03]
A
And I wonder if Rob Lowe is into lactation game. Maybe you could just ask that.
[91:09]
B
I want you to tell the story about, like. Like, I want you to tell us about it and then I'm going to talk about, like, my inappropriate response in the group text to, like, you dropping this news.
[91:19]
C
Amazing. So about a year ago, we auctioned. A little over a year ago, we auctioned in Holidays to Netflix and Alloy. And Alloy is known for, like, Vampire Diaries and Pretty Little Liars and Gossip Girl. It's like, you know, kind of that ilk. And then obviously we all know Netflix. And so we were really excited. We had dinner with the whole team. It was amazing. We the creative director of the sort of holiday pod at Netflix. She's amazing. And then the executives from Eloy and the screenwriter, Tiffany Paulson, she did holidate a couple of years ago, which was like an adorable, fun holiday movie. And Tiffany Paulson is the writer, but she's also directing it. And so we had announced, I don't know, like, several months ago that it was happening. And then yesterday on deadline, it was dropped that the casting was done. And actually filming starts January 29th. I think it's like January 29th to March something. And they're shooting in Vancouver and so they announced the cast. So Maddie Ziegler is playing Mei Lin, Graham Phillips is playing Andrew. And then Rob Lowe is going to be Uncle Benny. And so I put that in the group chat. And I mean, it's like every time.
[92:31]
B
It was like, Rob Low, woman of A certain age. Rob Lowe. I'm sorry. The sexiest man alive for my entire childhood. And honestly, still hot. Like, still super still hot. I know, right?
[92:47]
A
Has had all the best work. I know.
[92:51]
C
And also, I don't know if you follow his son, but his son drags him so perfectly on Instagram. His son's account. Johnny Lowe is so funny. He just, like, drags Rob Lowe all the time. And I.
[93:01]
B
So funny.
[93:02]
C
I love him. Yes.
[93:03]
B
Yeah. So I literally was like, instead of saying congratulations, or I'm so excited, or, you know, any of the nice things you say when good things happen to your friends. Instead I was like, rob low. We were all like, literally, a few minutes later, was like, oh, yeah, congrats.
[93:19]
C
Congratulations.
[93:20]
B
Great news.
[93:20]
A
Great news.
[93:21]
B
Do you think you'll meet him?
[93:24]
C
Right? I was like, so.
[93:27]
B
That's so exciting. I know.
[93:28]
C
I'm really excited. And it's funny, you know, Christine and I have been around for a long time, and we've had a lot of things optioned. And, like, we've had kind of every level of experience with Hollywood where it's like, you know, things get optioned and fall through. We like, written scripts, and then the company goes bankrupt. We've, like, had things almost get greenlit and then a new executive comes in and they want a whole new slate. That's just their stuff.
[93:48]
B
Like.
[93:48]
C
Like, Sarah, I'm sure you've had the same experience where it's just like, you can get so close to the million things and you just never know if something's going to happen. So for this to have been, like, greenlit cast and they have the set shooting.
[94:00]
B
Yeah, it's such a fun book.
[94:03]
A
It's a perfect holiday story. I cannot wait.
[94:08]
C
I'm excited. Thank you. Yeah, we're super excited.
[94:11]
B
That's amazing. Well, I just think that you should have all of your romance friends at the premiere. That's all I'm saying. I'm just gonna, like, shoot my shot right now.
[94:19]
C
I love it. I mean, it's on Netflix, so I think the premiere is at my house on my couch. And we can all, like, sure, fair enough.
[94:27]
A
We're gonna have them simultaneous la.
[94:30]
B
Yeah.
[94:31]
A
New York. I. Listen, we should just, you heard it here first. Zoom the group in.
[94:37]
C
Well, you know how you can do the, like, watching together on Netflix and.
[94:41]
A
We'Ll just get a bunch of people in everybody's house.
[94:44]
C
Done. Done.
[94:45]
B
You know, I just think it's exciting because I feel like there for so long, there was just, like, such a dearth of, like, romance remakes and then I think, right. With Bridgerton and red, Red, white and royal blue. Heated rivalry now, right. People say people we meet on vacation is terrific.
[95:02]
C
It's so good.
[95:04]
B
Yeah, it's so good that I think that. That hopefully we're gonna just, you know, see way more of these. And I think, you know, I mean, the heated rivalry experience has been really awesome because it just feels like this is how romance. This is how reading romance feels. It's not often how watching romance feels. And so it's. I'm really excited to have, you know, in a holidays be one of those. Because I love that book. I love a time slip. I love like a. We're gonna do a trime. Yeah, it really is exciting.
[95:36]
A
It's so exciting.
[95:37]
B
Bring back around with time as a, like, unifying theme. Because I love those books.
[95:45]
A
Well, so we have. So that's exciting. Filming is starting in the new year that's happening. What else is happening next year? Lauren of Christina Lauren.
[95:55]
C
So we have an. A short story coming up with Amazon. Amazon. It's called Accidentally Yours. And it's just a little Valentine's. Neat, cute, that's coming out January 20th. I don't know, sometime check our Instagram. And then we have a book coming out in July. We didn't have a book out, a new book out. Last year we did the special edition of Love In Other Words because we'd written a book and we were like, it's crap. We cannot do this. So we took a year off, in a way, and we just toured for Love In Other Words. And that was super fun. But this July, it's called the Romance Revival. And Jen has read it and given us an incredible feedback, per usual. And it's basically the story of a scientist named Emery Finch who marries this guy Luca after she met him very briefly. And they are deeply, deeply in love. But a few years after they're married, she is back to her old tricks of being obsessed with her job and never home and works just being a workaholic. And she, on their anniversary, is late to their dinner and he gets hit by a car and dies. And so Emory must use her super secret job to figure out how to fix the problem.
[97:03]
A
So fun.
[97:05]
B
It is really fun.
[97:07]
A
Read it. But I'm waiting.
[97:09]
C
Okay, well, I can send you. I have pass pages I'm sure you're gonna get. I'm. I know that a print. I will.
[97:14]
A
I will get a copy in my house. This is so exciting. Christina Lauren is back this year and it sounds like next year is going to be world domination for you and we could not be happier about it.
[97:27]
B
From your lips.
[97:29]
C
Let's do it.
[97:31]
B
Love it.
[97:32]
A
Lo thank you so much for joining us for this silly, silly night. New Year's Eve episodes always.
[97:39]
B
They always are.
[97:40]
A
A very specific audience loves them and waits all day for them to drop.
[97:46]
C
Happy New Year early.
[97:47]
A
They usually drop early. So everyone, Happy New Year. It is another year with you and it is unreal that you all still stay with us and and spend time with us every week. We are very very grateful to have you. If you have a book that we have missed that you think we would love related to Lactation Kink, you can drop it anywhere on our social media. You can drop it on Instagram and Threads at Faded Mates Pod or on Blue sky at Fated Mates or head over to the Discord where I am certain a lot of people are already discussing today's episode. You can join the discord@betamates.net Patreon I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friends Jen Prop and Lauren Billings, one half of Christina. Lauren we are Faded Makes and Happy new year everyone. May 2026 bring all good things.
[98:42]
B
Or at least some good ones. I. I mean again, bar is low. Sorry, sorry it's been a tough year everybody.
[98:49]
A
Grumpy sunshine here as usual. We love you. Please take care of yourselves and each other and we will see you in the New Year.

Summary8 min read

Fated Mates, S08.15: "Jen & Sarah's New Year's Milkin' Eve!"

Release Date: December 31, 2025
Host(s): Sarah MacLean & Jennifer Prokop
Guest: Lauren Billings (“Lo”), one half of the author duo Christina Lauren

Episode Overview

The Fated Mates’ annual New Year’s Eve episode goes off-the-rails in the best way, as Sarah and Jen are joined by the irrepressible Lauren Billings (Christina Lauren) for a deeply fun, raucous—and surprisingly thoughtful—romp through the world of lactation kink in romance novels. The trio share personal histories, peer into the genre’s wildest corners, and explore how lactation, breastfeeding, and kink appear in romance across publishing eras. Amid genuine analysis of gender, bodies, and relationships, they sample stories ranging from the straight-up bonkers to deeply moving explorations of postpartum intimacy.

"On our New Year’s Eve episodes, the rules are just out the window." —Sarah [02:07]

Headphones in (double-up!), because this episode runs the gamut from scholarly meta to riotous smut recs, with no kink shaming and all the merriment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Lactation Kink? Setting Up the New Year's Milkin' Eve

The episode is pitched as "New Year’s Milkin’ Eve"—the hosts’ most taboo, no-rules topic yet.
Jen and Sarah explain that the topic comes up surprisingly often in romance fiction, but hasn’t been explored at length on the pod.
Lauren ("Lo") is their dedicated “slightly dirty” guest, handpicked for her openness and humor on such topics.
The logistics and difficulties of searching for these books online—algorithms, keyword challenges, the term “adult breastfeeding” versus “lactation kink.” [05:34]

2. The Spectrum of Lactation Kink in Romance

The trio identifies a spectrum:
- Taboo/Erotica: High-concept, often porny books designed for immediate gratification.
- Emotional/Healing: Stories where lactation/breastfeeding becomes a metaphor for acceptance, motherhood, and new post-partum identities.
- Monster/Paranormal/Sci-Fi: Lactation melds with fantasy and monster romance tropes—e.g. Minotaurs, MPreg, Omegaverse.
Multiple “gazes” are identified, ranging from the male gaze to a more woman-centered, healing, or emotionally validating depiction.

“There’s a spectrum of what’s happened, how it’s written into the books... how it’s relevant to the books.” —Sarah [17:19]

3. Their Early Encounters with the Trope [07:48+]

Jen recalls Sandra Brown novels from the late 1980s—“Love Swept” and “Sunny Chandler’s Return”—as her earliest encounter (“One day, I’ll drink your milk”). [09:50]
Sarah recalls Bertrice Small’s All The Sweet Tomorrows at age 12—deeply problematic by today’s standards, but memorable for featuring a sheik with a lactation kink. [13:08]
Lauren didn’t notice the trope in books until researching for her own writing, particularly for Beautiful Beloved. [16:45]

4. Motherhood, Kink, and Emotional Resonance

They discuss the reality of postpartum bodies, feelings of desirability, and the friction (or synergy!) between the roles of “mother” and “sexual partner.”
Jen admits to a difficult breastfeeding experience and finds kink appealing partly because her own reality was so different.
Lauren: “My relationship to my body as a mother was very different than my relationship to my body as a wife... to read these where the child is not a part of it—as it should not be... that appeals to me." [20:24, 20:44]

5. Types, Tropes, and Notorious Titles [23:49+]

Many quickies and full-lengths:
- Pure Kink/Quickies: Jade Swallow, Lucy Swells, Violet Dare (Real Men Suck series), Luna Stark (The Dairy Diaries).
- Monster/Lab Lit: e.g., Fresh Cream by Ex Callisto, a “Why Choose Minotaur Hugh Cow Romance.” [25:31]
- Voyeurism: e.g., Milky View: A Show for My Grumpy Neighbor (Luna Stark)—characters discover community via kink. [27:00]
- Parody/Hyperbole: Alexa Riley’s AR Taboo, often crossing into incest/taboo as reader beware.
Fanfiction Origins: Lo recalls reading “Volturi Dairy,” a Twilight fic with cow-play. [28:33]
Sad/Emotional: Recurring scenario of single moms, heartbreak, and the man who loves her “flawed” postpartum body. [33:34]

6. Male Gaze, Gender Essentialism, and Metaphor

Some books make lactation a means of achieving perfect “womanliness” or serving as sexbot, clearly written with a male gaze.
Others use it to reclaim desirability, agency, or as a metaphor for acceptance and adult sexuality.

"These books are like taking gender essentialism and turning it into a milkshake." —Jen, [42:22]

7. Authors and Standout Books

Elena Dawn produces a “hybrid”—kinky but still containing character work (Mountain Daddies: “gender essentialism as a milkshake”).
Daisy Jane – The Wild One: Sarah highly recommends this contemporary, reverse-age-gap, single-mother romance with a lactation kink that is truly part of their full-length love story, not just an erotic moment. [55:15–59:16]

“I would recommend it to anybody… the breastfeeding was the sex kink, it was just very clear these two wanted it the whole time.” —Sarah [59:04]
Julia Wolf – P.S. You’re Intolerable: Boss-assistant romance, where lactation kink is seamlessly folded into a larger emotional narrative—“more Harlequin Presents than porn.” [77:14–82:42]
Christina Lauren – Beautiful Beloved (novella): Explored the challenges and beauty of postpartum sexual reconnection in an established relationship (see “Notable Moments” for expansion).

8. Discussion of Realistic Versus Fantastical Narratives

Many “bonkers” stories use drugs, magic, or monster biology to justify lactation.
A recurring metaphor: lactation kink books as contemporary fairy-tales—“these books all have a real element of, like, none of this would ever happen... we like that.” —Sarah [75:26]

9. Expanding the Amazon Algorithm: Finding These Books

Discussion about self-published taboo and kink, including how books get excluded from Amazon and migrate to direct buy or Smashwords. [51:12+]
Warnings to listeners: Pay attention to content warnings, author websites, and personal comfort with taboo material.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On book searches and naming the kink:

“My problem is that when you actually search this stuff, the algorithm doesn’t allow you to do a lot… The reason why I think I do call it adult breastfeeding is because that’s what you have to put into Amazon to get the full scope.” —Sarah [05:34]

Lauren on research dedication:

“I have professionally researched this. Professionally destroyed my Kindle algorithm.” —Lo [04:52]

Sarah on childhood taboos:

“I could get in trouble if my mom knew I was reading this… even then I understood, like, this is kink in a way that none of the other—white bread and mayonnaise! ...And then there was whatever this was.” [14:44]

On voyeurism & “The Milky View”:

“At the end of the book, the ultimate scene is they go to [the neighbor’s] backyard and have sex so he can watch them, and they both have a great time. These two lost souls have found each other… but the writing is just terrible.” —Jen [27:00]

On what makes a book work:

“If I’m reading, it doesn’t matter what the kink is, as long as I believe those characters would get there together.” —Lo (paraphrased)

On the emotional side of kink:

“There’s something very emotionally compelling about these books and what they’re actually saying about your body post-birth… you find a person who is so hot for you.” —Sarah [34:18]

On the difference gaze makes:

“That’s one of the good examples—those books feel very male gaze-y… is it male gaze or is it us reckoning with it, or both?” —Sarah & Jen [42:13–42:46]

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:41: Special Guest Lauren Billings introduced; banter about episode setup
05:34: Difficulty searching for lactation books; “adult breastfeeding” as a keyword
07:48–17:00: Early reading memories of the trope in traditional romance
20:24 & 20:44: Discussion of motherhood, self-image, and sexuality
23:49: Mapping the spectrum of the trope in romance—kink to healing
25:31: Monster romance and Fresh Cream (Ex Callisto) [Minotaurs]
27:00: “Milky View: A Show for My Grumpy Neighbor” (Luna Stark) [Voyeurism, quick review]
28:33: Fanfiction roots—“Volturi Dairy,” Twilight cow-play
33:34: “Sad lactation kink” trope—single moms, healing, and vulnerability
42:13–42:46: Gender essentialism and the “milkshake” of kink
55:15–59:16: Sarah’s full-throated recommendation: The Wild One by Daisy Jane
77:14–82:42: P.S. You’re Intolerable by Julia Wolf—boss-assistant slow burn
83:53–87:11: Behind the scenes of Christina Lauren’s Beautiful Beloved (postpartum epilogue novella)
91:02: Lauren shares news of the In a Holidaze Netflix adaptation starring Rob Lowe

Series Standouts & Recommendations

If you want ultra-smutty, single-serving kink:
- Jade Swallow, Lucy Swells, Luna Stark (esp. Dairy Diaries), Violet Dare’s Real Men Suck series
For monster romance & smutty fun:
- Fresh Cream by Ex Callisto (Why Choose Minotaur Romance)
For complex, contemporary narrative with character depth:
- The Wild One by Daisy Jane
- P.S. You’re Intolerable by Julia Wolf
- Beautiful Beloved (novella) by Christina Lauren
For hybrid, character-driven filth:
- Elena Dawn’s Mountain Daddies, Daisy Unchained
For fanfiction and boundary-pushing:
- “Volturi Dairy” (Twilight ff)
- Alexa Riley’s AR Taboo website (heavy content warnings!)

Reflections & Listener Engagement

The hosts encourage listeners to share further recommendations, especially stories that explore established couples navigating new parenthood and bodies (“...books where they explore, let’s change together”). [90:22]
The conversation ends with a celebration of Christina Lauren’s upcoming Netflix adaptation (In a Holidaze) and book news for 2026.

Final Thoughts

With affection, hilarity, and an unflinching eye, the Fated Mates crew delivered an episode that covered much more than just “getting on the tit.” They wove together romance history, pop culture, fanfic, and contemporary writing, always returning to what makes kink work for readers—authenticity, character, and the joy of finding yourself seen, even in the weirdest corners of genre fiction.

“If you have a book that we have missed that you think we would love related to lactation kink, you can drop it anywhere on our social media…” —Sarah [97:47]

Happy New Year from Fated Mates—may 2026 bring you great reading, joy, and just the right amount of chaos.

[Connect with Fated Mates: Discord, Instagram/Threads @FatedMatesPod, BlueSky @FatedMates, www.betamat.es]

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Transcript521 lines

[00:00]
A
Well, it's New Year's Eve. We've done it again. Headphones in, headphones in. Headphones in.
[00:08]
B
Your headphones should have been in for several hours already to prepare your ears. Yeah.
[00:13]
C
And like tape over your carplay screen.
[00:16]
A
So, you know.
[00:19]
B
When I sent the calendar invite to Lo and her publicist, I've been calling this New Year's Milk and Eve. Which I thought, I'm sorry, it was.
[00:28]
A
A very funny episode title, let's be honest, obviously.
[00:31]
B
And Kristen was like, I can't put that in the fucking calendar. And I was like, okay, fine, but you better not be listening then. New Year's Milk and Eve is funny.
[00:42]
A
There will be no kink shaming today.
[00:44]
C
I think it just said Faded Nates recording. I was like, okay, that sounds very innocent.
[00:52]
A
Everyone, that is the voice of one of our very favorites, Lauren Billings, one half of the Christina Lauren duo. We are so excited to have you with us again. You are a multi timer here at Faded Mates. And I should just say also you are a multi timer. For episodes where we are like, we want to talk about something slightly dirty. Let's bring low in.
[01:17]
B
It's a sign of our love and respect.
[01:19]
C
Honestly, that is like the biggest compliment for me. And the funniest thing was that I know you would not ask Christina to do that because she would be like, no, thanks. But like, for me, I'm like, let's do it. I'm all in. And so I was talking to her this morning after I dropped off my daughter at school, and I was like, you know, I have that Faded Mates recording today. And she was like, you do? And I was like, oh, I guess I never told you that I've been reading these weren't in books for the last few days. She's like, have fun.
[01:43]
B
Yeah. No, she doesn't want any part of this. She's like, you know, thank you for understanding that. That's just not my ministry.
[01:49]
A
We know our chickens here at Faded Mates. Yes, but I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.
[01:58]
B
I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader. I've never edited this, so I'll just say reader. Pure reader this time around.
[02:05]
A
And I haven't written this.
[02:06]
B
Not yet.
[02:07]
A
Christina Lauren has written this. And we're gonna get to it, everybody. This is fated mates. It is New Year's Eve and our longtime listeners know that on our New Year's Eve episodes, the rules are just out the window.
[02:20]
B
Well, in fact, I was like, I don't know. We're out of good ideas. And Sarah was literally, like, point of order. The best idea of all has. We have yet to do. And I was like. And like a. I didn't.
[02:30]
A
I don't know if I called it the best idea of all.
[02:32]
B
I mean. Well, you were like, no, there's something out there we have not done on New Year's Eve.
[02:36]
A
The truth is, is that it feels weird that we haven't done. What are we calling this? Lactation. Yeah.
[02:44]
B
Yeah. Lactation kink. Right.
[02:45]
A
Because it's. I mean, because it does come up a lot.
[02:49]
B
Now, here's the thing, though. When it comes up, Sarah, I was thinking about this, too. This is on my list, which, by the way, I have a lot of notes I'm planning to burn later in my backyard in a fire.
[02:59]
C
Yeah.
[02:59]
B
And Sarah, when it comes up, I will be burning these later, or I will be burned later. Just smoted. Sarah always. Almost always calls it adult breastfeeding. And I'm like, okay, but it's not nutrition.
[03:14]
A
Like, no. No one's like, sometimes it is. We're not Steinbeck here.
[03:24]
B
Right?
[03:24]
A
Where. This is not. That is not where we are.
[03:27]
B
The milk of wrath. No, not at. Right. And so. So I was always like, I think that's not right. Lactation kink.
[03:34]
A
Does it Is lactation kink. But more accurate, what I discovered is that if you are. And I wonder if the two of you discovered this also in our vast research for this episode. Because everybody, we are professionals here, all three of us. And so we planned this. Should we tell everybody how we invited Lo.
[03:53]
B
Yes, you tell her. Yes, tell them.
[03:57]
A
Okay, so Jen and I were like, all right, we're gonna do this. We're gonna. We're gonna pull the trigger. We're doing it. And then I. And I said, well, we need a guest. And obviously it's. We know. I mean, there was no that. You were top. You were the only. There was no list.
[04:10]
B
It was you. And, yeah, if she says no, we gotta come up with another idea. You don't know what we're doing. Right. So.
[04:17]
A
And so we just. Jen opened a thread between the three of us and dropped into the text thread.
[04:23]
B
Like, hey, Lo, would you like to.
[04:26]
A
Join us for our New Year's Eve episode?
[04:28]
B
We have an idea.
[04:30]
A
And I just dropped a text that had two capital O's next to each other. And now that's the name of that text. We've changed the name, and it's just capital O. Capital O for a book.
[04:44]
C
I think my answer was just a very clear fuck yes. Yeah, I needed no more information.
[04:49]
A
Yeah, you were like, I'm ready. I feel prepared to do the research.
[04:52]
C
Got my list already? I have professionally researched this. Professionally destroyed my Kindle algorithm.
[04:59]
A
Sacrificed.
[05:01]
B
I. Actually, you guys, there was a book I remember reading on KU that is now off of ku, and I had to go to Smash Words to retrieve it. I was willing to go to the end.
[05:11]
A
Oh, you went to the deep dark of the earth.
[05:13]
B
It was. Was it Alexa Riley? No. That. Not even. And then I also had to literally even, like, check and uncheck. Like, no. I was like, show me the erotic content. Look. And then it's like. Then there's like another checkbox where you're like, no, I really mean it. I Show me the dirtiest shit you've got in here. And then all of a sudden, it popped up. And so that's, you know, why you need your headphones in. Maybe, like double headphones even.
[05:34]
A
Yeah. Like two condoms. Sure. All right, so here's the deal. We are gonna. So, but my problem is that when you actually search this stuff, some stuff, like, the algorithm doesn't allow you to do a lot of searching around here necessarily. And the. So the reason why I think I do call it adult breastfeeding is because that's what you have to put into Amazon to get, like, the full scope of the books. You have to put in abf.
[06:04]
C
Yeah.
[06:04]
A
Which is like a porn slash, probably fic thing. I don't know. But it's.
[06:10]
C
Well also. So just as a little aside, so when I had younger kids, one of my good friends had a baby, and this was when I was already writing with Christina. So my kids were like, you know, three, four, five, whatever. So I was not breastfeeding them anymore. And my friend had a baby and she. This is again, headphones in. Everybody knows this. She was making a ton of milk, and she's a loving person, so she pumped and would save it. And she basically gave her milk. She donated her milk to women who couldn't breastfeed. And there's, like, sites that you can go to where. Where you can, like, list, you know, here I have this, like, I don't drink, don't smoke, whatever, blah, blah, blah. So she was supplying this mother with breast milk, and she got so many messages from dudes who were like, they. There was like, certain terminology. I guess it's like, from the source and all this stuff, and there's people who want to use it to make chocolate. And it's just like. It's a whole thing that I genre does not allow you to see Jen's reaction to that right now.
[07:13]
B
It's probably for the best. I'd get fired for sure.
[07:16]
A
But I mean, of course it is. Right? Like, of course there's a whole. And this is one of the things I do want to talk about is the Venn diagram of, like, these books. Because I feel like there are two very distinct schools of this. Yes. I think the gaze is different on them.
[07:35]
B
Yes.
[07:36]
C
So I think there might be more than two.
[07:38]
A
Oh, I'm excited to get into it, but there is a gaze issue going on here.
[07:44]
C
Oh, for sure, for sure. Okay. I'm so excited.
[07:48]
B
I don't even. Okay. You know what? Here's what I was thinking. Would be so much to cover. So much to cover a fun place. Now, listen, we're all women of a certain age. We've all been reading romance for decades. Yes. Before the advent of the Kindle and everything that it can bring into your reading life. So I thought it would be really interesting for us to also talk about, like, do you remember the first time you read this in like, a Traditionally, like. Right. Traditionally published self publishing didn't really exist. So, like, when's the first time you remember reading this? Because I remember. I remember. I will start. Okay, you want to go? You go. No, you.
[08:24]
A
No, you have a. You have a plan. You go.
[08:26]
C
You.
[08:26]
A
You came up with the question.
[08:28]
B
Okay, sure. All right. So for me, you guys. And this is wild. It was in Sandra Brown category romances. Those Love Swept. And there were two. Dirty Bird. Oh, yeah, right. And they were. Listen, everybody, I'm going to say this with, like, a little. One of them is actually I downloaded from the library. Cause it has been, like, translated into, like, an ebook format, which is Sunny Chandler's Return. And in this one, it's just like, they have this. And I like, went back and reread this. And this probably would have been the first time I read. Although I don't necessarily have as vivid a memory as this. This was 1987. And in this, they have this really interesting conversation where he, like, sort of talks about how he was like, a cop. And he would do, like, you know, he'd be like, I often fantasized about, like, women's breasts, but not in a. And he have. They have this really interesting conversation where he's, like, kind of in a nurturing way. Right. And she sort of says, like, I guess I can kind of understand that. Like, sometimes when I'm really stressed out, I imagine, like, putting my hand, like, my head on a man's shoulder, like, right, like sort of being enveloped and held in that way. And like, maybe it's just like comfort. And I was like, okay. So I was rereading this and I was like, okay, sounds good, but it's not what I remember. And then like later on, like the first time they're having sex, he basically says to her as he is like thrusting into her, like, one day, I'll drink your milk. And I was like, oh, okay.
[09:50]
A
Sandra Brown knew the job. And he as here's my disappointment.
[09:57]
B
Love swept everybody. A love swept romance.
[09:59]
A
Yes.
[10:02]
B
This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by Michelle Dayton, author of Every Other New Year's Eve.
[10:09]
A
Oh, this is such a cute premise. Paige Larson is riding high on the future and possibilities at New Year's Eve 2019. Like so many of us, Paige what a time. And she ducks into a neighborhood bar for a celebratory drink where she meets Will Weber, who is having the same kind of vibes, very excited about what's to come. Like, 2020 is going to be a great year. They have a little bit of a clashing personality, but they have a very, very good physical attraction. And the two of them dance the night away, grooving to 1970s music in this very unique bar that neither of them have ever been to. But when Paige and Will try to find the bar and each other the following day because they had such a great time, they realized that the night was even more magical than they believed. This bar appears for only a handful of hours every two years in an abandoned city lot on December 31st. And it turns out the two of them are living in different timelines, two years apart. So this book travels a span of eight years and all the life changes between Paige and Will as they search for a way to to find each other through space and time. This is a perfect happily ever after for a happy New Year's Eve. And what a great book to be on this week's podcast.
[11:35]
B
Yeah. So if you are interested in finding out more about this book, it is available in print and in ebook and if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Michelle Dayton for sponsoring this week's episode.
[11:54]
A
My it was not, not my first, but one of my early experiences with this was Sandra Brown's Another dawn, which is a historical and that's also. Listen there this there's a lot of kink that goes on in this book. She this is A book between a young woman, like 18 or 19, like very young, and she's jilted on her wedding day and then ends up like, seeking solace in the arms of her parents best friend who was. Has been in love with her mother for like his whole life. And now he's like, why not? Yeah, very similar, actually. I wonder if it's. I mean, you will never know if Stephanie Meyer was a Sandra Brown fan, but it actually is very closely aligned because, like, he did like hold her as a baby and yeah, it's super dirty. And then she gets pregnant and he's, you know, ter classic Sandra Brown hero. Like absolutely terrible to her, but also very happy to like get on the.
[12:59]
B
T. Sorry I just said it. I mean, somebody was going to. We had to break the seal on that. Yeah.
[13:08]
A
But my first. And like, I can remember being. I remember I've never reread this book. It is Bertrace Smalls all the Sweet Tomorrows, which is the second in the Sky o' Malley series. And now listen, this part of the reason why I've never gone back to this book is because this whole series is just, aside from being fully banana pants, is also.
[13:33]
B
You don't want to know. Right.
[13:34]
A
Like deeply racist, super problematic, carries with it all the things that the 70s and 80s carried with it. But this is number two in the series. And like, the plot of this book involves sky selling herself in white into white slavery to a harem, to a sheik in the Middle east who has a lactation kink. And so he gets her pregnant along with the rest of his wives and just milks them all. And I little baby Sarah at like no more than 12. Yeah, sure was like, is this real?
[14:15]
B
Is this. Do we real?
[14:18]
A
They do that? I mean, like, we do. We sort of think to ourselves, like, what are these kids finding on Reddit? Well, I was in all the Sweet Tomorrows. So, yeah, I mean, and I remember just being. It's the first book I ever. The first romance novel I read. And like, I had by this point had read a bunch of like, I was just reading whatever I could get.
[14:43]
B
My hands on more Normie shit, right?
[14:45]
A
I mean, Normie shit. I was reading Judvariau, which, like, you know, and then I. But I can remember getting to this book and being like, oh, I could get in trouble if my mom knew I was reading this, you know?
[14:57]
B
Yeah.
[14:58]
A
Like, it sort of. I even then understood, like, this is kink in a way that like, none of the other. All the other stuff is very like, you Know, white bread and mayonnaise. Yes, white bread and mayonnaise. That's a terrible. I know. Like, it's like what we're doing, like he could span her waist with his hands. Is like Beverly Cleary. And then there was whatever this was, which I was.
[15:26]
B
Right.
[15:26]
A
I just knew, like, if my mom got her hands on this, like, that was gonna be a problem. And so I remember, like keeping that book hidden.
[15:33]
C
Oh yeah.
[15:34]
A
It felt taboo.
[15:35]
C
Yeah.
[15:38]
B
After the Sunny Chandler's return, like a year later because I actually looked up the dates. There was one. Again, everyone, this has not been converted to an ebook because real racist. It was called Hako Tools Hostage. Right. And in this one he is, you know, of course, I'm sure half Native American and he kidnaps her for whatever reason. And what I remember, I don't remember anything about the plot, which is probably for the best, but I. What I remember, and I think this was the shocking one I really remember reading the first time was at the end of it, it like in like the epilogue, like, she, like he literally is at her breast. And I was like, oh, like, same thing. Like, I could tell even back then that like somehow this was different in a. Right. I'd been reading a lot of stuff my mom would not approve of and frankly, probably still does not approve of. But, you know, I'm a grown up now and she can't stop me. But I remember that book feeling salacious, like really like it was doing something like, whoa. That was way different.
[16:39]
C
I love that it's in the epilogue because it is such a key part of their happily ever after.
[16:44]
A
Right?
[16:45]
C
Yeah.
[16:46]
A
It's important to know.
[16:47]
C
No, like, literally, I don't think I hadn't read anything like this. And that's why when I, you know, I had the friend who was giving away her breast milk, like, I was like, wait, there's a whole world of this out there. And so, I mean, I didn't start reading any of that or like looking into it until we wrote it into Beautiful Beloved. And I wanted to kind of see, like, is this something people write in books? And so the answer is a very resounding yes. I was shocked how many books there were when I was searching for this episode. I was just like, whoa.
[17:19]
A
But I do think that there's like, even in this, right. There's a spectrum of what's happened, how it's written into the books, like what. How it's relevant to the books. And the reason why I sort of like the epilogue idea is in. So in Dreaming of you. Right. Like, Derek, that's an epilogue moment where he is on the tit. And so. And, like, there's nothing about. I think even. I think Sandra and I think Bertrice was just, like, into kink. Like, all of her books are just, like, slightly.
[17:52]
C
Ah.
[17:53]
A
But then the Sandra. The Sandra of it all, like, it's just, like, part of it for her. Like, she just clearly, like, this is a sexy thing for her as a writer. It's a sexy thing. So it's written into the books. And then I think Lisa, too, like, that. That sort of Derek Craven of it all. Like, it's just, like, a thing Derek does. Right.
[18:14]
C
Because I also think it makes sense, though. I mean, and certainly not for every woman, because every person. Every person who's had a baby, you have a different relationship with your body. Right. Like, not everybody feels this way, but I certainly felt when I was pregnant and then after I'd had my baby that I just was this sort of, like, voluptuous. I loved it, you know, and so I think for people who feel that way when they're writing, they are going to write it into their.
[18:39]
B
Yeah.
[18:40]
C
Because part of the happily ever after is finding a partner who also sees two mirrors that. Who sees that in you and wants that. And so I think, you know, it's. I'm not gonna say I found a lot that were, like, done in a way that I was like. I. I relate to this.
[18:53]
A
Right.
[18:53]
C
You know, I think. But I also think that, like, you know, when you're talking about those books that you read early on, where they. That's just part of the book they write. It's probably because that's part of how they see, like, a positive sexual relationship that includes a family, you know?
[19:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[19:09]
B
That's a really good point. Yeah. And see, I. Everybody, I'm like, you know, I hated. I'd nurse for three weeks and was like, this is not for me. I hated it. I hated pumping. I like all that stuff. So it's funny to me in some ways that I find it sexy or interesting because. And maybe it's just like, the opposite, right? Like, I didn't really have that experience. You know, I remember being in a Target and, like, someone else's baby cried and my milk let down, and I was like, okay, I'm done with this. Like, I was literally, like, enough of this. Like, and that's enough of this. But I also think that, you know, I don't know if this is, like, the Scorpio in me. I was like, you're not gonna tell me what to fucking do. And the sort of, like, narrative around, like, you know, like, this is what it means to be a good mother was really hard for me. I was like, you can't convince me that that's true. I was miserable and I hated it. And being able to give someone else my baby and a bottle and anyone could feed him was very freeing for me in a way that I just was like, I can't. And I remember saying to my husband, like, I can't do this and be the food too. Like, I. I don't like. So maybe that is why it's sort of, like, sexy to me, because, like, it wasn't an experience I had. I didn't, like, feel that way right.
[20:24]
A
At all.
[20:24]
C
But I do think, like, as we were talking about it just before we started, the one thing that I thought was really, like, important to state is that, like, my relationship to my body as a mother was very different than my relationship to my body as a wife. Right. And so, you know, to be able to read these where, like, the child is not a part of it as it should not be.
[20:45]
B
Right, right, exactly.
[20:47]
C
And, like, the reason why women are lactating in these books is so varied. Like, some of them. I read one book where there was, like. They didn't even explain it. She was a virgin. It was like, her stepdad doesn't matter. Stepdad, like, takes her to a motel and they have sex and she's lactating.
[21:01]
A
That's romance boob. Right, Right.
[21:05]
C
So it's like. Or it's like, you know, it's induced by something or it's a, you know, procedure they have, you know, it's fasc.
[21:12]
A
She's taking a lot of. What's Fenugreek?
[21:15]
B
Or whatever.
[21:16]
A
Just loaded up on Fenugreek.
[21:18]
B
When you start reading a bunch of these, you're like, what is the story behind it? And, like, kind of, how is. How is this character at this point?
[21:28]
A
This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by the steamy Bookworms monster Romance Box, A book box that will bring you two special edition paperback monster romances, including art prints, stickers, and a curated extra inspired by the theme every other month.
[21:44]
B
Yeah. So these book boxes released January, March, May, July, September, November. Right. And so that means that the new January titles just dropped. And it is. Which I think is going to be really fun and you're all going to love it. A dark monster romance box with two books by Sapphira that feature curvy Heroines and the monsters who love them. And the thing that's really fun, I think also about this subscription box is there's different levels. So you can kind of get like the full box that has the art prints, the books, themed extras, a candle, signed book plates. But you can also, you know, step it down and just get the books and the art or the books alone. So there's lots of different options for everybody in your monster romance loving little hearts.
[22:32]
A
I like the fact that this is a categorically no AI ever heart box, which is something that I've started looking for.
[22:41]
B
Everything made by humans except the monsters.
[22:44]
C
Except.
[22:44]
A
Well, exactly. But the, the monsters like humans. I. I feel confident. So you can learn more about Steaming Bookworms or go head over there. Today on December 31st, any purchase that's made actually today in the month of December enters you to win a 40 gift gifts certificate to your next book box at Steaming bookworms. Head to steamingbookworms.com for more information or to explore the available boxes. And thanks to Steaming Bookworms for sponsoring this week's episode. Well, this is, this is the actual thing because I, I mean, there are so many different versions of it, but also there are very specific versions of it.
[23:30]
C
Yes.
[23:30]
A
Right. So I think, I mean, what's interesting to me is so I, I talked about gays and I think that that's like, for me, there's sort of this, like, there's a lot of it that's just like clearly for the kink of it. And like it doesn't super matter why.
[23:50]
B
Right.
[23:50]
A
Like, it. None of the, like lead up. And I would say a sort of defining characteristic of those reads is that lady is uncomfortable because her breasts are full. The first paragraph of the book. Yeah. It doesn't matter. And it's like I'm in a. I'm in a department store, I'm in a conference room, I'm in a hotel bathroom. Like, I'm wherever I am and my boobs hurt. And oh, look, there's this grumpy man outside and he's just like waiting to be.
[24:19]
C
Get on the tip.
[24:20]
A
Get on the tip.
[24:21]
B
Get on the tent. You know, and it's also those authors tend to have names that are really going to identify them in advance. Right. Yeah. Thank you, Sarah. I think I had another one.
[24:35]
A
I did. Now I'm going to pull it up. Hang on.
[24:38]
C
Oh, my God, they were so funny.
[24:40]
B
Yeah.
[24:43]
A
Yeah. Like Lucy Swells. Like, listen, Lucy Swells is not a real. That is not her given name. No.
[24:51]
C
And I mean, and if it is, then she's calling, right? Name is Destiny.
[24:57]
B
Yeah, I think one. I. There's what I kept finding.
[25:01]
A
You have Jade Swallow.
[25:02]
B
Yes, Jade Swallow. You know what you're getting.
[25:07]
A
But also, listen, I'll say it like, these books did not do it for me. Like, I needed a little bit more, like, of a story. And listen, everybody, I need, like, you know, the, you know, vermouth waved over the top of the martini. I don't need a ton of story, but I just need, like, a slight entry.
[25:29]
C
I got one that I really liked.
[25:31]
A
Okay.
[25:32]
C
I found one that I actually really liked. It was very short. You can pick it up and read it in, like, literally 10 minutes. And it's called Fresh Cream by Ex Callisto.
[25:41]
A
I've read that one, and it's a. Basically, it's a.
[25:44]
C
Why choose Minotaur? Hugh Cow Romance.
[25:47]
B
Right?
[25:48]
C
So there's these. This woman, Sarah, she goes to this farm. She thinks it's like a wellness retreat. She arrives and immediately starts lactating at the sight of this minotaur. And turns out she is, like the dream woman to come and feed these three minotaur and breed their baby minotaur babies. I mean, I actually liked it because I felt like, I get why she's doing this.
[26:12]
A
And I thought of it as a soft entry and then a very hard book.
[26:19]
C
Yeah. So I don't know. That one worked for me. And I think maybe it's because it was the Minotaurs. It's like, we can be sort of have this, like, the monster. There's something that induces this state, you know?
[26:31]
B
Yeah. Yeah. You guys, I'm, like, so dumb. I was actually, like. I, like, kept looking at something. Okay, so there's an author called Luna Stark, and she has written a 21 book series called the Dairy Diaries. And I was like, the diary dairy. Like, I just, like, in my brain, I was like. And then I was like, oh, that's the Dairy Diaries. Okay. And I read the one because I. Again, dirty. Fine. There was one about, like, essentially voyeurism. So it was called the Milky View, a show for my grumpy neighbor. And I was like, oh, this is absolutely what I want to read. And these two are super into, like, the voyeurism of it all. Like, right. Like, she's in her window, and he. She's, like, watching him masturbate. And he's watching her, like, lactate again. Why? I don't even actually have any memory. And then they realize that, like, they're so Noisy. That there's some, like, creeper in the neighborhood who's also sort of getting off on listening to them. And so then at the end of the book, like, the ultimate scene in this book is that they go to this guy's backyard and have, like, sex in his backyard so that he can watch them, and they both have a great time. And I was like, you know what? These two lost souls have found each other. But I was like, 21 books, and they're all, you know, like. You know, my motorcycle friends, like, whatever. Right. Like, you can. You can pick. Choose your poison. Because they're all essentially, you know, it's not. But I will say, I do remember the writing is just terrible. Right. And so I. I'm sorry. They are like. Right. Like, the. These types of books in. In this class are not. Are gonna be what they are.
[28:11]
C
That's not what you go for, though.
[28:13]
B
Yeah, Right. That's not why you're there.
[28:16]
C
Yeah.
[28:16]
B
And so I will say in this, Luna Stark, I was kind of like, oh, these are sentences.
[28:24]
A
You guys. The bar is on the floor again. It is. It is.
[28:27]
B
There's some, like, scene work, like, you know, And I. And so I.
[28:31]
C
You appreciated that as well?
[28:33]
B
I. I did, yeah.
[28:34]
C
I mean, when you're talking about this now, I feel like I'm remembering actually, the first thing I ever read, and it was fan fiction. It was Twilight fan fiction, and it was called Volturi Dairy. And it was basically, Edward is a farmer who, like. Basically, his cows are women. And Bella comes and. To her. To the farm, and he, like, has a stall for her, and he, like, hooks her up to machines. And she is like, the Hugh Cow thing. But it's to the point where it's like cow play as well. So it isn't just about the laptop. It's like she has, like, a plug that is a tail. And they, like, you know, all that whole thing. And so I feel like there's. There's these. You know, there's overlaps with, like, furry situations happening and, like.
[29:19]
A
Yeah.
[29:20]
C
I guess what I'm saying is I didn't realize how vast the world of lactation kink was until I started doing some work for this episode was just like, wow, the world is large. I mean.
[29:31]
A
Yeah, there is also. I'm just trying to find God. I mean, I read a lot of those jade swallows.
[29:39]
B
Oh, yeah, sure. Me too. And you know what? They're all like. They are what they are. Right? Like, if. If. If you're like, whatever, I just need a hit of this, then that's gonna be what you're gonna look up. Yep.
[29:49]
A
And then Elena Don's like, Mountain Daddies.
[29:54]
B
That's like, an actual book. We're gonna have to return to that one, are we?
[29:57]
A
We're not there yet. And then I would say also another person who is in this mix that sort of just very clearly is doing, like, just. Is Violet Dare. So I want to just. I want to find the book that I read that made me just laugh out loud.
[30:17]
B
While you're looking for that, can I, like, take a minute to talk about something else that really made me laugh, which is so everybody knows. I really love the book Heaven Texas by Susan Elizabeth Phillips. This is 1995, right? So, like, again, these Sandra Browns were almost a decade earlier in, like, Love Swepts. But a really funny part of, like, of this. Of the book is that Bobby Tom is like a action hero in this film he's making. And his co worker, who is not the heroine, she's not. The main character, is a mother, and she's still nursing her baby Elvis. And at one point, she, like, her milk lets down in the middle of the scene. And Bobby Tom is horrified. Like, horrified. He's like, I can't. Like, he's just like, I can't. Like, that's a nursing mother. I can't make love to a nursing mother. Something he says. It's a really funny thing. But the part that is really entirely hilarious about it is I went back and looked at that. I was looking at it, and I think I knew this, but I, like, wanted to double check. Is that the dedication of this book is Susan Elizabeth Phillips thinking her buddies in the Leleche League.
[31:27]
A
Perfect. Who?
[31:28]
B
And I really. It was like, one of those things where I thought, I wonder if this was just like. I almost feel like I could see it happen, right? Like, she's the La Leleche mom now. She's got kids, and they're all sitting around talking about how their husbands act about this whole business.
[31:43]
C
And she's like, I'm putting that in a book, ladies.
[31:45]
B
I'm gonna put it in a book.
[31:45]
C
And they're like, y.
[31:49]
B
Exactly. And I just thought, it's so funny, because if it was now, would he be grossed out by it? You know what I mean? Like, he is so, like, literally, like, frozen. And I think, of course, part of it is it's not the love interest, right Then it's just like, another women, you know, it's another woman, and that's for a baby. And Bobby Tom wants Nothing to do with it. And it's just real. It's just like a really funny. Like the. The anti. Right.
[32:15]
C
Yeah. I do think there would be a.
[32:17]
A
Still be.
[32:17]
C
I still think there would be a lot of guys that would be really freaked out by it, but I. Hopefully less so.
[32:22]
A
Yeah, but like, I think intellectually freaked out. But then, like, in the. Like, if they actually let themselves go.
[32:27]
C
Yeah, like if the ID is invited into the party.
[32:30]
A
Exactly. But I mean, that's the problem, right? That's why romance is so important. Everyone. So wait, I was talking about Violet Dare and that. So she's written 12. I mean, at least 12. But the series is called Real Men Suck.
[32:46]
C
My God, I am obsessed.
[32:50]
A
Wait, let me just read some of the titles and then I will get to the one that I think is most important, which will tie us into the next thing that I want to talk about, which. So, for example, there are the obviouss, right? Like milking the rock star. Milked by the dad's best friend. Milk by the quarterback. Milked by the cowboy. Milking the rabbi was really, I mean, I found really, like, progressive in a lot of ways because she is the rabbi and he is not Jewish. So it's like a little like, if nobody wants. This was your thing last year. Maybe this will be for you. And this is what's interesting about these. This book particularly.
[33:34]
B
Was.
[33:34]
A
It had this thing that, like, they all see that there is this sort of big group of these, like, romance. These. These lactating romances where the beginning is, like, a mom who has either been divorced or, like, left or, you know, widowed. And she is. She's, like, got a. Like, she's got a kid who is, like, just old enough to, like, be present in the text. Like, you know, she's eight months old or they're, you know, a year and a half old. Like, kind of taught a little less than a toddler. They're still nursing. And, like, this mother is, like, really, like, broken up. Like, has had a, like, deep heartache, heartbreak that has, like, thrust her into this, you know, story and then, like, finds a man who, you know, sees her for who she is, loves her body for all its, like, flaws post birth. Like, there's something very ID about, like, something very, like, emotionally compelling about these books and what they're actually saying about, like, your body post birth, like, now that you're a mother and, like, kind of reckoning. It's also always like, first child. So, like, she's really. It feels very much like what we're Actually doing here is reckoning with like, who we are, like, who we've become, what our bodies are doing, how our bodies look, all this. And you find a person who is like, so hot for you because these books are just pure kink.
[35:18]
C
Oh, yeah.
[35:19]
A
And all he wants to do is like, get on the tit.
[35:23]
C
Yeah.
[35:24]
A
And like, oh, yeah. And like, great for you. Real men do suck, Violet.
[35:31]
C
But you, you gotta wonder, like, what. Where some of these authors are coming from. Like, I read one where it was a single mom. She had like, young, like a couple young kids, and she was doing sex work to support her family because her husband had left her. And it was like very kind of straightforward about that. And then she gets picked up by this guy, a cowboy in a pickup truck, who basically is like, do you want a long term thing? And she's like, what are you talking about? And he like, just to like, cut to the chase, he like, brings her back to his farm, gives her and her family a cottage, and all she has to do is like, feed him her breast milk. And I'm like, to the author, I'm a little bit like, are you okay? Like, I just, I'm working through something with this one a little bit. You know what I mean? Like, I think there might have been some. Like, this is what I. I have milk to give. That's the only thing I have to give. And like, this man is going to take me back to his farm and like, support me and my kids. Like, yeah, that's a real mood, you know?
[36:27]
B
Yeah, that. I mean, I do think that's like, those are the ones that to me are like the sad lactation kink a little.
[36:37]
C
Exactly. That's exactly right.
[36:40]
B
It's like about. I mean, it just so sad because she's sad.
[36:44]
A
Or is it sad because this poor cowboy, like, just can't find himself a lady?
[36:49]
C
I think it just feels clear that it comes from a place of like, the author's working through something for me, you know?
[36:56]
B
Right. No, that's what I think. I mean. Yeah, right. So the sadness is like, about our complicated feelings, about like, what it means to actually like, care for a family and like the pressures of that and like. Right. Like all that sort of stuff. I mean, it just seems like a big metaphor for like the current state of modern parenting in some ways. Right. Or modern mother motherhood, like, if only. Right. But I think, like sometimes I think the corollary to that is. And like, Sarah and I have talked about this, though I'm not sure you saw it this is like not really that funny that one TikTok of that. Like single mom. No, like a woman, a stay at home mom at 37 who was like, my husband told me he's done, he's getting divorced and I have nothing. Right. Why didn't anybody tell me that I would have nothing? And so I think sometimes like what the fantasy is is the like, no, like what I am doing right now is actually valuable endeavor. Yeah.
[37:53]
A
This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by 831 stories.
[37:57]
B
831 publishes really fun sexy romance novellas that have people talking and binging their entire back catalog. So you might have noticed they're really fun, bright, two tone like color block covers. They're really evocative to me of like those old Penguin classic covers. And the deal is is that these are like read it in one sitting. Contemporary romances featuring women that feel really grounded, adult and fun. So for example, in Alexandra Romanoff's Big Fan, we meet Maya, who is a political strategist who ends up working with her teenage boy band crush. Now that they're adults, Alice gets sent off by her boss to work at a wine harvest in France. Um, and I'm very much looking forward to in January, a WNBA romance rooting interest by Kat DiSabato. A queer love story where a journalist is assigned a profile like essentially the WNBA star player.
[38:57]
A
Perfect for Jen.
[38:58]
B
So very perfect for Jen.
[39:00]
A
Listen, this is now December is over and we're entering gift yourself season. And so you can sign up for a membership to the ones and get every new 831 stories release shipped directly to your door, which I sort of love the idea of because it harkens back to those old harlequin boxes from when we were young. You'll also get lots of perks like a spoonie welcome gift discounts across the site, including their iconic trope hats and early RSVP access to events like their legendary book swaps. So if you're not ready for membership though, that's okay. You can find all of the 831 titles wherever books are sold or go straight to the Source and Prusa. Use all of their books, merch and membership at 831stories.com, where you can use code faded mates to get 10 off your first order. That's 831stories.com code faded mates for 10 off your first order on eligible products. Thanks to 831stories.com and 831stories for sponsoring this week's episode.
[40:04]
C
Because I had been reading Some like banana, like honestly, some of the craziest shit. And then I read this and you know, a lot of these are very short.
[40:12]
A
They're like, yes, so short. Because how much could they. Sure, right?
[40:16]
C
I mean it's. Yeah, but that one, I was a little like, oh, sad. So then I had to go find another. And I mean, I think there's a lot of metaphor in all of these. Honestly. There's another one that I think there's this one called Bigger and it's by these titles by Casey Kane. And so the heroine is this woman, Polly. And she's this like super powerful attorney, but she's like super high powered attorney. Multimillion dollar settlements for her clients. And she is tall and skinny and flat as a board. And she's tired of being powerful and she's tired of being skinny. And so she basically finds this doctor in Spain who can help her grow curves. So she goes to Spain and like all the women that work in the office are just like busty and curvy and they like open their shirts and are just like milk is just pouring out everywhere. And she's like, that, I want that. And so then she goes in and the doctor gives her like three vials and he's like, take this one when you get back to your hotel. Take the next one two hours later and then the other before bed. And she's like, of course, like, you know, five minutes from her hotel. And the she's like, oh, I'm close enough, I might as well just take this first vial now. And of course she like wakes up in the cab and she's like undressed and she's trying to hump the cab driver and she's super hypersexualized. And you know, over the process of all this, like she basically, she does develop curves. And they take her into round two, phase two, which is where she starts lactating. But it's sort of like, it's this very like, I want to become curvy, hypersexual. And it's all like doing everything the man says. It's sort of like being this sort of drone. Like he tells her, get on your knees. She gets on her knees. And like, I mean, obviously that is a kink that we can totally like meld in any of this, right? But there was something so fascinating to me about like basically becoming just like the men I male ideal of like a sex bot. And that's when I was like, who is this for? Like, who is this specific book for?
[42:13]
A
You know, that's one of the good examples of, like, for me, I think those books feel very male gazy.
[42:22]
B
Like, these books are, like, taking gender essentialism and turning them into a milkshake. Right? I mean, it is, right? I mean, literally, like, that's what they are doing. And it's. It is, right. Like, obviously, it's like, is it, like, male gaze or is it just, like, us reckoning with it or both and. Right.
[42:46]
C
Or is this, like, women who. That is, like, what they want is to be the most, like, curvy, desirable. Like, that is a priority? Or is it just, like, fun to read about big boobs that are leaky and dudes that want it? I don't know.
[43:01]
B
Yeah, right. I know. Well, I think it's probably all of them. And I think for any particular reader, it's gonna determine. I mean. Right. I mean, the other thing is, is, like, I'll read some of these, you know, Like, I'll sometimes be like, all right, I'm gonna read this bonkers thing. And, like, I can't tell you what will make me keep going and what will, like, make me be like, oh, no. Right. And. And I think that some of it is. It does feel so, like, hyper local to, like, not just, like, who I am as a woman in the world, but, like, who I am in touch with, like, my body on any given day. And it's like, that is a daily fluctuation.
[43:41]
C
Right? Right.
[43:42]
B
And so I do think, like, part of it is. Is. Is, like, really impossible to predict. Right?
[43:48]
A
Yes. It's interesting because this kind of, like, milkmaid concept, right. Is. Is. So this one I didn't reread for this, but I. I remember. I. I maybe have talked about it on the podcast before because I was so sort of surprised by it. But your low.
[44:07]
B
The.
[44:07]
A
The book that you talked about with the Minotaurs was not by Astro Rose, right?
[44:12]
C
No, it was not. It was by Ash.
[44:14]
B
The one I had to go get off Smashwords, Sarah. Because I remember reading this one, too.
[44:18]
A
The Splash of Cream at the Alabaster Cafe.
[44:20]
C
Oh, my God, that's a great title.
[44:23]
A
Listen.
[44:23]
B
Yeah, I gotta get it off Smashworth now, everybody.
[44:26]
A
I've literally been searching for it today because I was like, I know. I read it and I know it was like a cafe, and I know.
[44:32]
B
So let me tell you, because this one's actually really interesting and it's 45 pages, and I reread it today after I found it on Smash Words.
[44:40]
A
Wait, you didn't already discuss this?
[44:42]
B
Did I know. Okay, no, no, no, no, no, I haven't. But, like, this was one, like. But I mentioned earlier, like, when I had to go find. Cuz I think, you know, I think.
[44:53]
A
And it has a story.
[44:54]
B
I think there are authors for whom, like, they dabbled in some of this stuff. But, like, I think that the. The KU store now is, like, really cracking down on some of it. And so I think you have people who are potentially keeping some of their catalog that's, like, kind of more romance or, like, more acceptable kinks online and then pulling other ones off. I have no idea. But it's just really interesting to see which of this author's books are still on KU and which of them are now. Okay, so here's the other thing, though, that's really interesting before I tell you the plot, because I reread it so you're remembering it correctly, but this book came out In September of 2021, about a month after Morning Glory Milking Farm. Wow. Okay. But so. And I think my point here is. Okay, so for those of you. We're not going to really talk Morning Glory Milking Farm.
[45:47]
A
That's something else that's different.
[45:49]
C
A different kind of another one I greatly enjoy.
[45:53]
A
Same. Me too.
[45:54]
B
Same. Right. Okay, so here's what happens in this book. Summer is our main character. She is desperate for a job, and she lives in New York, and she is like, a job.
[46:05]
C
Just like Violet in Morning Glory Milking Farm. Yeah.
[46:08]
B
Correct. Right. And that's why I was like. No, I really think this is like an inverse conversation. Yes. In conversation with. So she goes to. She ends up. She's like a. She gets turned down for a job as a barista or something. I kind of skimmed over the beginning. I was, you know, wanting to get skimmed over it.
[46:25]
A
46 pages.
[46:26]
B
Couldn't.
[46:27]
A
Well, couldn't do the beginning.
[46:29]
B
Okay. I started at 140, everybody. I found it fine.
[46:32]
A
Okay.
[46:34]
B
So she ends up getting a job at this coffee shop that pays 25 an hour, like, way more than anybody else. And so she's like, great, I need this job. She gets hired. But one of the things that she starts to realize is that, like, there's all these guys coming in and saying, like, I'm a member of the coffee club and one of the other baristas, and they are all stacked. And she actually says this at some point. It's like Hooters, if it was a coffee shop, will take these, like, men into the back. And then, like, she sees them, like, tipping the. Whoever took them back in cash. And she's basically like, okay, I want in on this. What's going on? So she starts to like, sort of investigate. And. And in the meantime, a young man comes in and tries to pretend he's a member of the coffee club. And they like, all the other baristas milk. The milkmaids. Jack can tell that he doesn't actually know what's going on and they like, show him the door. Okay. So in the meantime, Summer figures out that, like, what the other coffee baristas are doing. They're the. The milk maids. Is they are essentially milking men straight from the source in the background rooms. Just like, you can suck on my tits. Okay. And so then it's like kind of like a. There's like a unionizing aspect to it, I would say.
[47:44]
A
Well, they do.
[47:45]
B
They like. Right?
[47:46]
A
She like, gets them all together. Well, because their boss is an asshole.
[47:50]
B
It's not really that. It's that they essentially, they realized that there was a, like a market for this and they approached him kind of like, we need you to be the front for our milking story. Right. Or whatever. So she starts doing this and like, she's getting off on it and it's not intercourse, it's just literally she's having orgasms from being milked. So then Jack comes back. Okay, now this is the part where.
[48:15]
A
Really she's taking a drug, right?
[48:18]
B
Yes, it's a drug. Yes.
[48:20]
A
Actually, it's like an aphrodisiac plus.
[48:23]
B
Correct. It's called Cassandra. And the thing with the drug is that if. And like, it was on the market as a birth control pill, but this was a side effect, so they took it off the market. But then these women, along with like, their. The head woman, actually Kimmy had been pregnant and sort of like realized that like, her. Her man was into it and then she was pregnant again and he left her. So she, you know, like, she was like essentially a businesswoman.
[48:48]
C
All of this in 45 pages.
[48:50]
A
I know. So fast. I know.
[48:52]
B
It really was.
[48:53]
A
Which sometimes I read one of these and I think to myself, this is not a first timer. Like, no, this is somebody who knows how to plot a book and just like had a. Had an idea, like kinky story.
[49:05]
B
Correct. So then.
[49:06]
A
And heard that know who. If you're out there, Astro, I'll keep your secrets forever. Yeah, I'll probably tell Jen. Honestly. But other than that.
[49:15]
B
And Filthy daddy came between us, it'll.
[49:19]
A
Just be four of us.
[49:21]
B
Yeah. So anyway, here's the part then that's really funny. Jack returns and is sort of like, well, what are they doing in the back building? And. And she's like, what back building? And then the, the funniest part about it, and this is as far as I got before we had to start recording, is instead of being like upset to know that there essentially is like also a part of it, she's like, what are these bitches keeping from me now? Like, she basically had to fight her way into being like a milkmaid at the coffee club. And so.
[49:48]
A
But yeah, I was totally like, it.
[49:50]
B
Is a very short 45 pages. But then she goes out back and it's basically like milking orgy and lots of people.
[49:59]
C
Oh my God.
[49:59]
A
So wait, is the second book fun? It's fun.
[50:03]
B
It is super fun. Yeah.
[50:04]
C
Is there more? I mean, it's the second one, like A Splash of Jesus at the Alabaster cafe.
[50:09]
A
Oh. It's like. It's like this person just had this.
[50:11]
B
One book in them. I mean, there's all their other books. They've written a lot of books that are like kind of daddy. Right? And then they actually have a recent series that is more like a.
[50:22]
A
Almost.
[50:22]
B
It's a dark romance that I. It's. It looks a little too dark romance for me. So, like, I think. But yeah, you're right. I'm convinced that this is a person.
[50:32]
A
It's a person for sure.
[50:33]
B
Yeah.
[50:34]
A
Writing too strong.
[50:35]
B
Yeah. This is a. This is a pen name for, you know, someone who's just like, okay, now here's where I'm putting the real dirty shit.
[50:44]
C
I'm so into that. Like, I am so into the idea of having a banana pants idea and just like writing a 45 page story and putting it out there. Like, come on, brain.
[50:54]
A
Yeah, exactly. I know. If only I could make my brain do it. I know the, you know, I also just feel like this is the place for us to talk about the Ar Taboo name, which is so Alexa Riley, who was sort of like back in the day, like they started.
[51:13]
B
They.
[51:13]
A
It's a. It's a dual. It's a. It's a writing team. And they were writing like Jessica and before Jessica, like really short, sexy, hot, very.
[51:25]
C
A lot of taboo. Yeah, super dirty.
[51:28]
A
Like a lot of daddy. A lot of age gap. A lot of like, I'm with my teacher, I'm with my coach. Like that kind of stuff. Like kinky, like taboo romance. And then they launched on their website, their private website, AR Taboo, which is not always like, it is like more kinky, more taboo, more intense. Like some of this stuff is like incesty. Like there's. It's very taboo, but they have obviously a lactation kink, like fan. Fan base because a ton of those taboo books include lactation kink. So if you are unbothered by like going into the sort of dark world of taboo romance that you're welcome. You're gonna have a great time this holiday season.
[52:25]
B
Yeah. And a lot of these books you have to like, listen, you have to buy direct. You have to go to their website.
[52:31]
A
Amazon, because it's.
[52:32]
B
Yeah.
[52:34]
A
This week's episode of Fate of Maze is sponsored by Avon Books, publishers of Stasia Starks. We who will die.
[52:43]
B
Okay, so this is a slow burn romantasy set in a Roman inspired world with vampires. Our heroine is Arvel. She and her younger brothers live in the perilous Thorn district. She's faced with a really impossible choice. She basically has made a magically binding vow to do the impossible, which is kill the Emperor. Only the Emperor is an ancient vampire created by a God. So in order to like sort of get herself in the position where she can actually even carry this out, she has to first enter the Sundering, which is an arena where only the fastest, strongest and deadliest survive long enough to be selected to be part of the Emperor's elite guard.
[53:23]
A
Okay.
[53:25]
B
But then what happens is essentially her brother's lives are in the balance and so she has no choice but to ally herself with the man who once shattered her heart and with the Emperor's sadistic son, Roerich. Both of these guys are vampires. Their motives are impossible to pin down. But Rorik seems to have the key to understanding the powers. Arvella is developing these abilities that would both put a price on her head if they were discovered by the Emperor, but also allow her to actually kill him. So to survive the arena and complete her mission, Arvel must get to the bottom of a concealer conspiracy that will change everything she thought she knew about herself and these two vampires who are deeply entwined with her destiny.
[54:06]
A
Well, if you are looking for a romantasy set against ancient Rome with vampires and second chances and a love triangle between two brothers, this book is for you. You can read we who Will Die right now in print, ebook, audiobook or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Stassia Stark and Avon Books for sponsoring this week's episode. So I read a couple. I read two romances that I would like fully like unabashedly recommend and that, I mean that's not true. I, I obviously recommend like a lot of these, but I'm talking about like.
[54:51]
B
Full length in a different way.
[54:52]
A
Yeah, full length romances where I would be like, I mean I wouldn't necessarily recommend them to like the mom at my kids school, like just right.
[55:00]
C
But like a faded mate.
[55:02]
A
Close friends. That's a nice personal faded mate.
[55:05]
B
People who are put double headphones in and are ready 50 minutes in.
[55:09]
A
They're like the ladies who are still here and gentlemen who are still here.
[55:15]
B
Okay.
[55:16]
A
And the first one is one that I had seen recommended a bunch and I actually clearly I bought it like two or three years ago and just never read it. And that is the Wild One by Daisy Jane. And I have that.
[55:30]
C
I don't know if I've read that. Okay, go ahead, go ahead.
[55:33]
A
So the, the premise here is it's reverse age gap. I mean at least that's, that's how it's billed. But that means you know, she's older. She's a woman who is, has been left by her husband who divorced her. Like like asked her for a divorce. The day she realized that she was pregnant, he left. Now she's a single mom, she's really strapped for cash. Like again this kind of mythology of like the women who do that, who do this in the books like often there is this kind of like I'm really down on my luck. I'm. She's an Uber driver and in this small town because she can like keep her kid with like the kid can, the car seat can go with her everywhere. And she, she like falls for the guy who owns the local automotive shop which actually it turns out like is not just a local one. He's like, he owns like 2000 automobile. He's the CEO of like a major corporation. Sure. Because he inherited this corporate. It doesn't matter, not important. But of course like he's a king. So he's in his late 20s. Jen, you'll love this.
[56:41]
C
He has late 20s king.
[56:44]
A
Yeah. Jen, you'll. He has a tattoo of Marlon Brando on his chest, which made me laugh because I thought of you instantly. But like listen, I'm sorry.
[56:51]
B
The Christian gray of it all.
[56:52]
A
Her book is called the Wild One. And, and that's. And like it's refer like it's a Marlon Brando movie. The Wild One. So anyway, point is she is you know, super. She has like enormous, she had enormous breasts to begin with and now she is you know, lactating She's. She's breastfeeding. And he is so wildly turned on by, like, the shape of her, by, like, just everything about her. And she is like, you're 10, 15, 10 years younger than me. And, like, this. 10 years younger than me. And, like, this can't be. Like, you don't want any part of this. You're a young, strapping man with a Marlon Brando tattoo. I'm a mom who, like, is. Is just trying to hold it together. And finally, she. And he's like, no, but I really.
[57:47]
B
I really do.
[57:48]
A
Like, I really want to take you out. And it's very cute. He, like. He, like, uses the Uber app to call her every day to, like, get. Get her to come and pick him up and take him to work every day so he can have the, like, 10 minutes in the car with her every day. And he asks her out in. On every car ride. And, like, finally she gives in, and, like, they go out, and he is, like, so into the fact that she's breast. That she's breastfeeding. Like, she's producing milk. And, like, all he can think about is, like, he just wants to touch her. He wants to hold her, he wants to, like, fuck her, he wants to get on the tit. He wants to do it all.
[58:21]
B
She's.
[58:21]
A
Her body is a wonderland. And. And it's like, there's also, like, a ton of, like, you know, will they, won't they? He's sort of reckoning with the death of his father. She's reckoning with, like, the loss of her husband. She feels very sad. She feels very unlovable. Like, this is not the kind of life she can have. It's like, she's not the kind of person who gets this ending, this happy, happy, happy ending. And it was really compelling. And also, like, the breastfeeding was, like, the sex kink. Like, there was. It was just very clear that these two just wanted it the whole time. And I really enjoyed this one. Like, I would recommend it to anybody.
[59:04]
C
I feel like that is. That is the book that we were all, like, looking for. Right? That was, like, the golden goose that I went into this experiment looking for. And, like, it's hard to find, but I'm like, I'm totally gonna read that.
[59:17]
A
Yeah. And it's not like, listen, it does not. It's halfway through before there's, like, sex on the page, and it's. It's really entertaining. I had a great time with it.
[59:28]
C
That's awesome.
[59:29]
A
Halfway. But it's not right away.
[59:31]
B
This author I've read other books by them. I think that they. I think, overall, tend to write really interesting kink of all kinds.
[59:44]
A
What else have you read?
[59:47]
B
Please. I'm gonna try to.
[59:48]
A
Yeah, I wanna know.
[59:49]
B
Well, I think my point, though, is, like, in most of these books, it's like regular people who kind of can't. Don't even know how to name what they're looking for until they, like, kind of find it. Right. So I have also read. And, like, some of these I, like, started. And then some I didn't. There's, like, a bunch of daddy ones that have, like, all the names are, like, real daddy shit. Right? Like, where it's like, all the names are, like, about sweets. One is called Cherry Piece. Use your magic. Oh, okay. Right. But I also read, and you guys listen. Not for everyone. I am not saying this is for everyone, but I will read. Weird. So, fine. I shouldn't. No kink shaming. But this.
[60:34]
A
I think most people be like, we're.
[60:36]
C
Talking about lactation kink in this episode. So I think that sort of goes without saying.
[60:40]
A
Apologizing.
[60:41]
B
I don't know.
[60:42]
A
It was even.
[60:42]
B
I was like, oh, but these people are still here.
[60:45]
A
Right.
[60:46]
B
I would say, though, for me, it was. Was like. I think this author. It's, like, really genuinely is like, okay. Like, okay. One of the things I'm always saying is, like, people aren't as curious about their characters as they should be anymore. And so when you read something where you're like, this isn't really my thing, but, like, this author is, like, deeply interested in how characters could get to this place.
[61:05]
A
Yes.
[61:06]
C
Right.
[61:06]
B
Right.
[61:07]
A
And so I would agree with that. There was character work in this book.
[61:10]
B
Yeah. And I. So the one I read recently, I think it came out this year, is called Father Knows Best. But. But, like, here's what happens. It is her wedding night, and she's had. They've had. I think they've had sex, if I remember. But he seems to have, like, a lower sex drive than her, and she gives him, like, a. A wedding night present that's like a sex toy for her that she wants him to use. And he is actually. And I want to say it's like a butt plug. I don't even think it's, like, that intense, but he kind of freaks out about it. And she, like, runs out of the room and runs into his father, who is like, a really, like, sexy, hot guy who's kind of like, what's going on? What. What did my son do? And essentially, like, ends up Kind of essentially offering to, like, almost, like, be their sex surrogate. And I was like, okay, this is really fucking over the top. But you know what? It felt like I said, deeply interested.
[62:14]
A
I'm gonna read the shit out of that book. That sounds.
[62:16]
C
I was gonna say, I know. I'm gonna read that one, too. When. When I heard the title, I was thinking it was gonna be, like, her daddy. And I was, like, not into it, but.
[62:24]
B
No, but, like, literally. And, like, it's, like, half. I mean, like you said, too, like, halfway through the book where this happens, and you're kind of like, wait, what's going on here? And so. So it's like, there's this. And, like, the father and son are not very close. And so it's also this, like, really weird part about, like, how do you repair this relationship with your, like, grown adult son? And it is. Is it fucking his wife? And so I don't. I mean. And again, I'm not saying that this book would work for everybody, but I think this is a book where this author really was like, what? Under what circumstances could. Could something like this happen? Who are the people who could get into this situation? And I feel like that's where a lot of kink becomes just, like, kind of porny, if we're being honest.
[63:13]
C
Right.
[63:14]
B
If it's just, like, we're getting off. But here is someone who's like. And I'm not saying, by the way, I don't believe that, like, you have to have a reason for being kinky. Right? But this. These books in general, I was really like, oh, okay. And I. I read the whole thing. I just. And I wouldn't say I thought it was, like, the sexiest book I've ever read, but I was really interested in it. And I think the author was interested in it, too.
[63:38]
A
So that was the interesting thing about this. The Wild One book by her also is, like, I didn't. Was a. It was a contemporary romance novel.
[63:49]
B
Yeah.
[63:49]
A
Like, where she was interested in the negotiation of these two people as people falling for each other and reckoning with themselves and evolving as, you know, through whatever challenges they were evolving through, and then also deeper into the tit.
[64:04]
C
But I think that's when we also get back to the idea of, like, the gaze and who the book is for, because obviously, those books are for us, for the three of us and other readers like us, where we want to see character work. We want. We're curious about why they are the way they are, what drives them, what turns them on, like, how they relate to each other, how they find that, how they compliment each other. Like, we're interested in that. Whereas I think, like, a lot of these stories that we've read, they serve a different audience. An audience that just wants to, like, open a Kindle and have, like, just dirty, dirty, dirty, dirty smut. And like, there is nothing wrong with that.
[64:38]
A
No. You know, we enjoy that on more days than New Year's Eve.
[64:45]
B
So for me, I would say, like, Elena dawn is probably like the hybrid of that. Right. So it's like really dirty. It's mostly kink. But, like, it's more than just like, oh, here's a person who can write a few sentences. Like they're, you know. And the one. There are kind of two that I read. There's one is called now this is the one that's like, you guys, gender essentialism is a milkshake. Right? Which is mountain Daddy's milk and honey.
[65:12]
A
Oh, I love that you just said gender essentialism. We're talking about breast cancer. Breastfeeding. Like, this is. Yeah, but I know every book it feels.
[65:19]
B
Yes. And sometimes it's even like, more intense. And I think the reason for this is. And you guys, listen, this is like, this is not going to work for a lot of people. Fine. But she. It was her stepfather, right. When she was younger. And so it was. This was her mom's husband. And then, like, she hasn't seen him in, I don't know, 10 or 15 years. And now she's like in her early 20s and she, like, comes back home and is basically like. But she's, you know, again, like, flat chested and. Right. Like kind of what Lo was talking about earlier with, like, the bigger. Right where. And like, basically it's like what she really wants is like, I'm going to be a woman and I'm going to please you when I have these huge, massive tips. You know what I mean? I get it. And so I think that's the part for me that felt different is a really explicit, like, I'll be womanly enough for daddy. Yeah. You know what I mean? As opposed to just like, Like, I have a body that makes milk. Yeah.
[66:15]
C
Right.
[66:15]
B
Yeah. You know what?
[66:16]
C
I'm actually wondering now when you said gender essentialism, I did not dig into this and we'll have to ask Adriana, but, like, I wonder if there's any abo stuff where there's like, male lactation.
[66:27]
A
Oh, I'm sure there isn't.
[66:29]
C
I'm sure there is because, like, embryg and all of that, you know, while.
[66:33]
A
I was searching and I was like, well, I don't know anything. Like, I. I know, but. Yeah, I'm sorry, I still don't understand the Omega verse.
[66:40]
C
I know, but I also feel like I'm sort of like, letting the audience down here by not bringing at least one. Like an mprague male lactation thing.
[66:48]
A
Well, we ask Adriana and if there is something, we'll put it into show notes.
[66:53]
B
Everything okay. I can tell you all right now already for sure. There's like heated rivalry and Prague, where Shane is the one, because.
[67:02]
A
Oh, well, I don't know.
[67:04]
B
Right. So it's on there. Right. But yeah, I would say, like, for me, I'm not. That's not. Mpreg is really not for me. Yeah. So I did not read any of that. Yeah. I la.
[67:15]
A
What, Two New Year's Eves ago, we did Omega verse with Adriana and Ali Hazelwood, and I still don't. I did two hours on it and.
[67:24]
B
I'm like, so they're werewolves?
[67:25]
A
I need like a full course. It's two hours. It's not enough.
[67:30]
B
Yeah, they're.
[67:31]
A
I still think they're werewolves. I know they're not.
[67:33]
B
I don't understand.
[67:33]
C
Understand.
[67:34]
B
Yeah. So this. This series, the. The. The one. It's, like, called Spice in the Mountains. In the first book, it's just the two of them, and then, like, his friends show up and are kind of into her tits too. And then in the second book, she wants to get pregnant, but he can't have kids. And so they invite the friends in to essentially have like a gang bang with her. And then who knows?
[67:58]
A
Who's the dad? Daddy.
[68:00]
B
It's just lots of. Could be anyone. But I will say that also leads. Yeah, it was. But it was a book. It felt like a book.
[68:08]
A
It didn't.
[68:09]
B
A very, very dirty, filthy book.
[68:10]
C
But still.
[68:11]
B
Yes.
[68:12]
A
Well, we have done a Breeding episode. Did we do that on New Year's? Maybe.
[68:17]
B
I'm sure we must have.
[68:18]
A
It must have been New Year's. Of course. I think that was with Joanna Shoop. Faded mates.
[68:26]
B
Yes. Searching it up. Really was.
[68:28]
C
Yeah.
[68:29]
B
Because we did. Oh.
[68:29]
A
When she did that reading Kink with Millifanelli.
[68:32]
B
Yep.
[68:32]
A
That was last year.
[68:34]
B
Two years ago.
[68:34]
A
The 23rd, 2023. So you can head over there, because I do think the. The Lactation King and the Breeding King, kind of. They. They can be knit together in an interesting way. And so, yeah, like, if you like one, I think you'll be predisposed to, like, the Other, I agree, tend toward both.
[69:01]
C
Yeah, I do love the mashup of the tropes, though. Like, I know I already mentioned, like, the Minotaur. Why choose adaptation? Like, I love that this is one that, like, pairs very nicely with a range of tropes. So I'm just, like, for any, like, aspiring writers out there, like, don't be afraid to just, like, drop a little dribble of a lactation.
[69:24]
A
Oh, lo.
[69:28]
B
There it is. This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Lumi Gummies. Consistent, mellow, and super delicious, Lume Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of the day de stressor, a midday mood boost, or help getting the best sleep ever. Lumi Gummies, have a strain that's right for you.
[69:51]
A
So today I was. I'm so excited that we're recording Lumiad right now, because today I was reading a romance novel, and the heroine was, like, spinning out. It was the third act. Like, some stuff had gone down, and she was with her best friend, like, explaining what had gone down, and she was definitely spinning. And the best friend in the middle of the whole thing was, like, you need a gummy. Reaches into her purse, pulls out, like, a vial, dumps the gummy into the heroine's hand. She immediately takes it and continues with her conversation, like, just spinning out until, like, she starts to just, like, chill out. And all I could think was, that's a Lumi Gummy. That's product placement. That's a romance gummy, which is a Lumi Gummy.
[70:29]
B
The only gummies in romance are Lumi Gummies. We're gonna talk to them about making some little gummy tins maybe.
[70:34]
A
Oh, my God, that would be so cute. Lumi, listen up. That would be so fun. Anyway, if you are a romance heroine or have one in your life, yes.
[70:44]
B
Then Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. Go to loominggummies.com, that's L U M I gummies dot com, and use the code faded mates for 30 off your order. Again, that's L U M I Gummies dot com, code, faded mates, lumigummies code, Faded Mates. And thank you, as always, to Lumi Gummies for sponsoring this week's episode and 2026. I also read another Elena dawn book called Daisy Unchained that I thought was more interesting for, like, how is she pregnant? Or how she. How is she nurse? Like, how is she lactating? What is this? I can't even make words. What's the science behind this. It's not the magic. You know, the magic thing or whatever.
[71:29]
C
Magic vials.
[71:30]
B
Yeah. Listen to this one. Okay, again, you guys, this is full on the wildest thing I've ever read. And again, I did. I read it all. Yes, I did.
[71:37]
A
Fine.
[71:37]
C
I don't care.
[71:39]
B
In this one. It's a stepbrother romance, right? And the part that's, like, really interesting is. So there's, like, an age gap, right? He's. She's. I don't know, like, young. She's, like, 20, and he's 37 or something. And her. And I can't even really remember, but, like, she's essentially, like, babysitting for her. Like, her stepfather. She has a stepfather and a stepmother. Her stepfather is his real father. And there's, like, a baby in the house. And she has been essentially, like, treated like the help. She's, like, just being expected to take care of this baby, whose name is, by the way, is Titus. Titus is the baby's name. Fine. I was like, sure, why not? And I don't know why that made me laugh. Why do these babies have wild names?
[72:23]
A
I have one where the baby's name. That one I was just talking about. The baby's name is Jets. J, E, T, T. Sure. Okay.
[72:30]
C
Okay.
[72:31]
B
And here's the thing. That's real. And she almost is, like, trapped in the house. Like, she can't.
[72:37]
A
She.
[72:37]
B
And she has been, like. She's been treated like the help, but also, like, kind of daddy's little girl. And there's, like, a lot of Cinderella with lactation. Yes, exactly. And she is very unhappy and can tell that, like, something is wrong and not right. But the only person who likes to hang out with her is the baby. And apparently. And part of me is like, this, to me, feels like urban legend, which is like, you can induce lactation if you let a baby nurse you, even if there's nothing there. Right? Like, so. Even if. You know what I mean. And I was like, is that real? Anyway, that's what happens.
[73:16]
A
Well, we have a scientist with us. Did you do any research on these?
[73:20]
C
I'm everything above the neck. Like, I am not below the neck.
[73:23]
B
Like, I'm a neurologist.
[73:25]
C
Yeah.
[73:25]
A
So close.
[73:26]
B
So close. So she would, like, let Titus do this for comfort. And then her milk came in, and now she's like, well, I guess I'm doing this. And then her brother, her stepbrother, Cyrus. I can't remember again, these names. Walks in, and it's basically like, what the. The Is Happening.
[73:47]
A
And where did this baby come from? Her.
[73:51]
B
The stepfather. I don't know. This is not my business.
[73:56]
C
Half brother.
[73:57]
B
Yes. Cyrus's half brother. Right, right. And her stepbrother. Yes. Something like that.
[74:04]
A
Look at you.
[74:05]
B
That's so impressive. I was like, I don't know. And there's no. They're not related. No, no, no, no. And the thing that's like, Then really fascinating is, like, they have incredibly dirty sex. Like, and I mean, like, he is basically like that. You can pump and give that baby bottles, but those are mine now. And then it's just like. And like, it's anal. He's like, you could do anything. I'm all into it. And, like. And she loves it because she feels like there's this really interesting thing about, like, motherhood for her. I've been forced in the position of caring for the. This baby, but, like, not actually getting any of the, like, fun benefits of it, namely, and therefore, this is great for me as well. And it's just honestly, super over the top.
[74:49]
A
But.
[74:50]
B
So, yeah, I think Elena Dawn's really leaning hard into this in lots of ways.
[74:54]
C
But I like that, you know, it's. There's this. There's a backstory there of why she might have parental attachment issues. And, like, there's, you know, I mean, there's at least an attempt there to create character depth.
[75:05]
B
Yes.
[75:05]
A
And it does feel like a. Like a fairy tale, which a lot of these do feel like. You know, we've been talking so much on the podcast recently about how, like, contemporary romance is. Like, they don't feel. They, like they have magic in them anymore and, like. Or many of them, like, seem to not have, like, that magical spark.
[75:25]
B
Yeah.
[75:26]
A
And these books all have, like. Like, a real element of, like, none of this would ever happen.
[75:32]
B
Everybody.
[75:33]
C
Right.
[75:33]
A
Like, this really is a full magical experience. But we like that.
[75:37]
C
And we don't need to be grounded in reality. I think it's okay to even in contemporary fiction, to, like, in contemporary romance, to start putting elements of the, like, unbelievable in there. Because that's why we go to romance, you know, like, we don't all have to have, like, a business that, you know, everybody, like.
[75:55]
A
Yeah.
[75:55]
C
Has done, like, your starter job.
[75:57]
A
Doesn't to feel like, you know, like you're something an itch is being scratched that is, like, really magnificent. And I think, like, I mean, we're here with you, one half of, like, somebody. A team that does it perfectly. But I think that there is.
[76:17]
B
Yeah.
[76:17]
A
I think these books all part of why they are so delightful is because you're like, this is insane.
[76:23]
C
I know. And they were just reading for fun. I think that's one of the, that's what's one of the best parts of doing this episode is like, I did not. I had so much fun looking for books. And there was no. And there was the one that I sent you guys, but I couldn't find it. It was like the, like milking my sister or something. And I was like, who's gonna do this one? And I guess it's too low. And I was like, oh, I couldn't find it. And I was very sad.
[76:45]
B
No, I think that's it though. I bet if you went to that author's. I think like some of it, like I said, when it's like this level, you gotta really be like on, on their websites. And I, I do think like again, like you have to really know what you can deal with or not. Like step brother, fine. But like some of these, you're like, whoa, is that real? Bye.
[77:05]
A
So I have another one that I really enjoyed and it is the sort of furthest away. I feel like we've been like getting tamer as we've. We've gone.
[77:15]
B
I think so.
[77:16]
A
And I want to talk about Julia Wolf. P.S. you're intolerable. Which is a straight up boss secretary, like boss assistant romance.
[77:27]
C
Listen, I. Sign me up.
[77:29]
A
I know we're gonna come to you. Christina, Lauren, in just a moment. I'm teeing you up to talk about yours. But it. What I found really. So this, the tee up here is that, you know, again, a girl on her, you know, down on her luck, she's pregnant after a one night stand with like a really good friend who she bought a house with. And her friend was like, I am, I'm in. Like I'm into co parent. Like we're not right for each other, but I'm into co parent. If you're into co parent. And she's like, yeah, okay, I guess we'll do this. Like he sort of convinces her that she wants to have this baby. I sort of liked the. At least nod to, you know, we. I did think about whether I wanted to have this baby or not. Right, right. And so, and then of course, like, you know, two months before the baby's due, he's in the wind. Right? And literally in the wind. He's like in Australia in the wind. And so she is stuck with this. And he's taken all her money with him. Like she's stuck. She has no money. She's got a house. She's underwater on the house, like, they were going to flip it and sell it for more money. And, like, that obviously is not happening. She has gotten a job with this, like, absolutely, like, the grumpiest, billionairiest real estate developer east man you can find. Just beautifully hot, extremely tall, all 27 years old. Sure. Exactly.
[79:02]
B
Christian Grey. God damn you.
[79:05]
A
And she and he, like, it's just they. They have a very, like, professional relationship. He never. He's just like. He never smiles. He never interacts with her. He, like, you know, whatever.
[79:16]
C
Why do we love that so much?
[79:18]
A
Me too.
[79:18]
B
I do. I'm garbage. We all love it.
[79:20]
A
It's trash.
[79:21]
B
Yes.
[79:22]
A
And every. And he's, like, very precise. And he wants her to write his daily schedule out on a particular kind of paper every day in handwritten notes, like, as a handwritten, like, document. And at the end of every document, she writes, like, P.S. and she tells them off, like, in a different, unique way, and then, like, carefully cuts it off and then, like, delivers what, you know, awesome little, like, all the little. You know, I love anything like this, like a epistle or anything. And she saves all the little slips in an envelope in her desk drawer under a box of tampons because no one will look under there, right? And then she has this baby, and she, you know, goes off to, like, have the baby, and he is. And, like, he kind of shows up at her house at one point because he's like, absolutely. He's going out of his mind because her replacement has been doing these schedules, and they're in. The paper's an inch longer than the paper, and he's like, it's making me insane. What happened? And he goes to her desk and to, like, find. And. And then the new assistant is like, I don't understand. I'm just using the notebook that Here, like, it's the notebook. And he goes to the desk to, like, and he discovers. Why would she need tampons? She's been pregnant this whole time. He finds the envelope, finds all the little slips. Like, he's. And so he goes to her house, discovers that she's living in this, like, house that's, like, you know, the contractor who was flipping it took all the. Took all the stuff out of the way. And so, like, here we are, right? Like, this is the book, right? Like, you're just. I'm, like, tearing through it. It is really fun. He's Flummox. He's an. He's an exasperated, like, confused man, which is my favorite flavor when they're like.
[81:04]
B
You'Re not living somewhere safe.
[81:06]
A
Yeah.
[81:06]
B
Yeah.
[81:06]
A
He literally walks into the house.
[81:08]
B
Put it in my veins.
[81:09]
A
She's like, I can't.
[81:11]
B
You.
[81:11]
A
Jen, you would love this. He walks into the house.
[81:13]
B
I'm gonna read this. She.
[81:14]
A
She doesn't even have a floor, right? Like, the contractor wasn't paid, so took everything out. And, like, then he, like, leaves. He gives her a Target card or something as, like a congratulations on your baby. And then he leaves. And then, like, two minutes later, he walks back in and he's like, you have to move into my house. Like, you can't live here with a baby. And then she's moved into her boss's house, and he's, like, obsessing, obsessed with her. But, like, thus, they're not fucking. Like, it's just. And now she's, like, nursing, and he's, like, kind of, like, obsessed with her. And then there is this great. And then they kind of like, discover, like, they're both into each other and so they start a relationship. And it's really a lovely kind of slow roll toward their relationship again. Like, halfway through the book, they kiss for the first time. And it's like, you've been waiting for it.
[82:09]
C
Yeah.
[82:09]
A
Desperate for it. And then they have sex. And, like, the breastfeeding is in there, the lactation is in there, but it's just, like, part of it. Like, it's not. It's not kink. It's just like, this is what I love. I love your body.
[82:27]
B
Yeah.
[82:28]
A
I love everything about you. I love. And he, of course, has also fallen in love with her daughter. Like, he's. It's a. Listen, this is a straight up, like, Harlequin presents in a lot of ways. Like, it just sort of. He's P. S. You're intolerable.
[82:42]
C
Oh, that's right. I'm into.
[82:45]
A
It's really. I had a great time. It has been a while since I have had a book where, like, I put it down and then, like, went through my day and was like, oh, I can't wait to go to bed tonight. So.
[82:56]
C
I know. I love that feeling so much. And I really opened my Amazon to get it and look at what was.
[83:03]
A
I downloaded that one, too.
[83:05]
C
I'm showing this picture. It's thirsty, and it's basically just tea boobs, everybody.
[83:10]
B
I just want to. No, hold that up again. I'm going to take a screenshot of you doing it so I could just be, like, amazing. Get your approval for that in a minute.
[83:21]
A
You will. I think you Will, both of you will really enjoy this one. It is really lovely. And it's one of four. It's a four. There are four books in the series, and they're all his friends. And so I'm gonna go read the other one.
[83:34]
C
Oh, my God. This sounds great, but what I.
[83:36]
A
But. So this is where I want to talk about you, Christina, because I feel like you guys, when you wrote Beautiful, The. The Beautiful, Beautiful Beloved, I think I feel like you were aiming for this kind of thing. This kind of like, I love your body.
[83:54]
C
Yeah.
[83:55]
A
Not like, hey, let's get kinky and on the tit.
[83:58]
C
Yeah. I think a lot of it was, you know, we were trying to do something different with this couple versus, like, Chloe and Bennett. And at the time, we were really trying to, like, you know, for the Beautiful series, we wanted every couple to kind of have their own thing that they did. Right. And so we were more successful, I think, with the first three books with Beautiful Bastard, Beautiful Stranger, and Beautiful Player, where there was sort of like the, you know, boss and assistant, the strangers, the voyeurism. And then for Will and Hannah, it was the sort of teacher, student, like, let me show teach you how to date kind of thing. But for Max and Sarah from Beautiful Stranger, we had the novellas.
[84:36]
B
One of my favorites, by the way. My favorites.
[84:39]
A
Yay.
[84:40]
B
Have I read all of these more than once?
[84:42]
A
Multiple times? Of course.
[84:44]
C
We have, you know, novellas for each of the couples. And so Max and Sarah, well, they had a couple for them, but one of their novellas is Beautiful Beloved. And so when in Beautiful Player, which is Will and Hannah's book, Max and Sarah find out that Sarah's pregnant. And so we wanted to do something because their thing was going to the second club and having, like, sex with, like, you know, one way or two way mirror. I don't know. I'm not a detective. But anyway, people could watch them, but they couldn't see out.
[85:16]
B
Right.
[85:17]
C
And. And so they're, you know, in this room, they're having sex, and people can watch them, but they don't know who's there. And it's. That's, like, really, that was Sarah's thing. So when she has the baby, she's very much like, I don't feel like myself. Like, I haven't gone out.
[85:33]
B
I.
[85:33]
C
You know, just like this milk factory, I just am changing diapers. Like, I. And I don't know how. I wouldn't even know how to integrate, like, what our life is now into what was our life before. And, like, the Fact that they, you know, they. Things did move really fast. She got pregnant really fast. Like they hadn't been together that long. And so, you know, in, in that book, that novella, Max is trying to figure out, like, how can I help her feel like herself again? And so, you know, he basically just wants her to know that, you know, the way her body is different is, you know, like totally. He's hot for it. And you know, they go to the club again and I think it was just, it was fun to like explore that because at that point Christina and I had both had kids and so we sort of could remember that feeling of just like, how do I get back to being a woman and not just a mother? But the funniest thing was so our publisher at the time, it wasn't Jen Bergstrom at the time, the publisher wanted to do this cover. And it's because the COVID is Sarah. It's like the profile of this very woman and it's beautiful. Like her body is just like very voluptuous. But in the. The publisher wanted to do a woman. It's like tight skinny jeans. And, and, and we were like, but she's had a baby. Like, the whole point is like, this is her like post baby body. She's like, yeah, but like everybody just wants to get back into their skinny jeans. And I was like, I am like, I have a 4 year old as my youngest and I am in my skinny jeans. Like, that is not my priority. So it was just funny to sort of think about the different approaches to it. But yeah, like, it was really fun to think about. Like, how does this specific couple that we met before we even knew that they were going to become pregnant get back to this place that we wrote them in a book a year ago?
[87:12]
A
Yeah, I mean, I loved, I loved that because I think it was one of the first. I mean, short of Sandra Brown. Like, it really harkened back to like the. This isn't kink. This is like just them loving each other and this is like part of what they do. And I do think that that is rare with this particular thing in romance. Like, I think often it is. I mean, and that's part of why we're doing this on New Year's Eve because like, it is kinky. But yeah, so I, I'm glad that you were able to talk about that because I loved, I loved that. I love that epilogue. And I also loved this. This P.S. you're intolerable book.
[87:52]
C
Yeah, I just got it. But honestly, it's so great that there's a range, like we've been saying this whole time. Like, you know, you can go from, like, drop you into the craziest scenario all the way to this thing where they don't even. You don't even see the lactation king show up until, like, the last third of the book, you know?
[88:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think, like, that's the part. I mean, I always. I always love beautiful Beloved, too, because, like, there's this part where, like, it is about, like, it just felt. I don't know. I mean, listen, I. One of the things that's always really interesting is, like, when people sort of are interrogating the idea of the hea, right? And it's kind of like this, to me, is like, the perfect example of, like, what an HEA really should look like, which is like, we're evolving together, right? Like, there. This is a way that we are, like, we are still the people we are, even though our lives are different. And, like, what we're trying to do is, like, like always just, like, reconnect in the way that's going to, like, be good for you or me or both of us. And, you know, and I think, like, that's the part about this I remember, like, I think at the end, like, there's a scene where they actually get to the club and, like. Like, they're kind of a known quantity. Like, people like to watch them and they haven't been around in a while. And it's kind of. It's like, really sexy. But it's also really clear that, like, what they needed from that has changed. Like, now that. And I just thought it was really terrific. Right. And that's why sometimes think, like, you know, if you're a person who's like, I don't. I mean, you know, I don't want to read epilogues or I'm not interested. I think that there are times I am very deeply interested in kind of. And I feel like this type of thing where it's a novella is, like, sort of perfect, right? Like, you're not trying to re litigate the hea. What you're trying to do is say, like, here's what this might look like a year from now, two years, years from now, however many. And I always really love this one.
[89:43]
C
So thank you. I mean, it's actually interesting that you make that point about the book that Christina and I wrote, because I totally did not really put together until now that everything that I've read and most of what we've talked about today is heroes that come into the book when the woman is already with a child lactating, or he induces it like he doesn't know her before. And so that the whole thing is sort of about him becoming obsessed with her because of this thing that her body's doing versus, like an established relationship where this is a change that's happening and he embraces it too. And I think that, that it would be. I want more of those. So I would love to see if there's like, when you post this.
[90:22]
B
Yeah.
[90:23]
C
People in the comments can share other books where they explore sort of like, well, okay, let's. Let's change together. You know, this is not.
[90:30]
B
Yeah, right.
[90:32]
A
Well, maybe that is a little bit where the line is between like, erotic romance and like straight up just romance.
[90:42]
C
Romance with. Right.
[90:43]
B
Yeah.
[90:44]
A
Lactation kink.
[90:46]
C
Yeah.
[90:47]
A
Straight up romance on the tit.
[90:50]
B
So before we wrap up, I know that this is. We probably maybe should have done this at the beginning, but, like, low. You also had some really exciting news this week.
[91:03]
A
And I wonder if Rob Lowe is into lactation game. Maybe you could just ask that.
[91:09]
B
I want you to tell the story about, like. Like, I want you to tell us about it and then I'm going to talk about, like, my inappropriate response in the group text to, like, you dropping this news.
[91:19]
C
Amazing. So about a year ago, we auctioned. A little over a year ago, we auctioned in Holidays to Netflix and Alloy. And Alloy is known for, like, Vampire Diaries and Pretty Little Liars and Gossip Girl. It's like, you know, kind of that ilk. And then obviously we all know Netflix. And so we were really excited. We had dinner with the whole team. It was amazing. We the creative director of the sort of holiday pod at Netflix. She's amazing. And then the executives from Eloy and the screenwriter, Tiffany Paulson, she did holidate a couple of years ago, which was like an adorable, fun holiday movie. And Tiffany Paulson is the writer, but she's also directing it. And so we had announced, I don't know, like, several months ago that it was happening. And then yesterday on deadline, it was dropped that the casting was done. And actually filming starts January 29th. I think it's like January 29th to March something. And they're shooting in Vancouver and so they announced the cast. So Maddie Ziegler is playing Mei Lin, Graham Phillips is playing Andrew. And then Rob Lowe is going to be Uncle Benny. And so I put that in the group chat. And I mean, it's like every time.
[92:31]
B
It was like, Rob Low, woman of A certain age. Rob Lowe. I'm sorry. The sexiest man alive for my entire childhood. And honestly, still hot. Like, still super still hot. I know, right?
[92:47]
A
Has had all the best work. I know.
[92:51]
C
And also, I don't know if you follow his son, but his son drags him so perfectly on Instagram. His son's account. Johnny Lowe is so funny. He just, like, drags Rob Lowe all the time. And I.
[93:01]
B
So funny.
[93:02]
C
I love him. Yes.
[93:03]
B
Yeah. So I literally was like, instead of saying congratulations, or I'm so excited, or, you know, any of the nice things you say when good things happen to your friends. Instead I was like, rob low. We were all like, literally, a few minutes later, was like, oh, yeah, congrats.
[93:19]
C
Congratulations.
[93:20]
B
Great news.
[93:20]
A
Great news.
[93:21]
B
Do you think you'll meet him?
[93:24]
C
Right? I was like, so.
[93:27]
B
That's so exciting. I know.
[93:28]
C
I'm really excited. And it's funny, you know, Christine and I have been around for a long time, and we've had a lot of things optioned. And, like, we've had kind of every level of experience with Hollywood where it's like, you know, things get optioned and fall through. We like, written scripts, and then the company goes bankrupt. We've, like, had things almost get greenlit and then a new executive comes in and they want a whole new slate. That's just their stuff.
[93:48]
B
Like.
[93:48]
C
Like, Sarah, I'm sure you've had the same experience where it's just like, you can get so close to the million things and you just never know if something's going to happen. So for this to have been, like, greenlit cast and they have the set shooting.
[94:00]
B
Yeah, it's such a fun book.
[94:03]
A
It's a perfect holiday story. I cannot wait.
[94:08]
C
I'm excited. Thank you. Yeah, we're super excited.
[94:11]
B
That's amazing. Well, I just think that you should have all of your romance friends at the premiere. That's all I'm saying. I'm just gonna, like, shoot my shot right now.
[94:19]
C
I love it. I mean, it's on Netflix, so I think the premiere is at my house on my couch. And we can all, like, sure, fair enough.
[94:27]
A
We're gonna have them simultaneous la.
[94:30]
B
Yeah.
[94:31]
A
New York. I. Listen, we should just, you heard it here first. Zoom the group in.
[94:37]
C
Well, you know how you can do the, like, watching together on Netflix and.
[94:41]
A
We'Ll just get a bunch of people in everybody's house.
[94:44]
C
Done. Done.
[94:45]
B
You know, I just think it's exciting because I feel like there for so long, there was just, like, such a dearth of, like, romance remakes and then I think, right. With Bridgerton and red, Red, white and royal blue. Heated rivalry now, right. People say people we meet on vacation is terrific.
[95:02]
C
It's so good.
[95:04]
B
Yeah, it's so good that I think that. That hopefully we're gonna just, you know, see way more of these. And I think, you know, I mean, the heated rivalry experience has been really awesome because it just feels like this is how romance. This is how reading romance feels. It's not often how watching romance feels. And so it's. I'm really excited to have, you know, in a holidays be one of those. Because I love that book. I love a time slip. I love like a. We're gonna do a trime. Yeah, it really is exciting.
[95:36]
A
It's so exciting.
[95:37]
B
Bring back around with time as a, like, unifying theme. Because I love those books.
[95:45]
A
Well, so we have. So that's exciting. Filming is starting in the new year that's happening. What else is happening next year? Lauren of Christina Lauren.
[95:55]
C
So we have an. A short story coming up with Amazon. Amazon. It's called Accidentally Yours. And it's just a little Valentine's. Neat, cute, that's coming out January 20th. I don't know, sometime check our Instagram. And then we have a book coming out in July. We didn't have a book out, a new book out. Last year we did the special edition of Love In Other Words because we'd written a book and we were like, it's crap. We cannot do this. So we took a year off, in a way, and we just toured for Love In Other Words. And that was super fun. But this July, it's called the Romance Revival. And Jen has read it and given us an incredible feedback, per usual. And it's basically the story of a scientist named Emery Finch who marries this guy Luca after she met him very briefly. And they are deeply, deeply in love. But a few years after they're married, she is back to her old tricks of being obsessed with her job and never home and works just being a workaholic. And she, on their anniversary, is late to their dinner and he gets hit by a car and dies. And so Emory must use her super secret job to figure out how to fix the problem.
[97:03]
A
So fun.
[97:05]
B
It is really fun.
[97:07]
A
Read it. But I'm waiting.
[97:09]
C
Okay, well, I can send you. I have pass pages I'm sure you're gonna get. I'm. I know that a print. I will.
[97:14]
A
I will get a copy in my house. This is so exciting. Christina Lauren is back this year and it sounds like next year is going to be world domination for you and we could not be happier about it.
[97:27]
B
From your lips.
[97:29]
C
Let's do it.
[97:31]
B
Love it.
[97:32]
A
Lo thank you so much for joining us for this silly, silly night. New Year's Eve episodes always.
[97:39]
B
They always are.
[97:40]
A
A very specific audience loves them and waits all day for them to drop.
[97:46]
C
Happy New Year early.
[97:47]
A
They usually drop early. So everyone, Happy New Year. It is another year with you and it is unreal that you all still stay with us and and spend time with us every week. We are very very grateful to have you. If you have a book that we have missed that you think we would love related to Lactation Kink, you can drop it anywhere on our social media. You can drop it on Instagram and Threads at Faded Mates Pod or on Blue sky at Fated Mates or head over to the Discord where I am certain a lot of people are already discussing today's episode. You can join the discord@betamates.net Patreon I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friends Jen Prop and Lauren Billings, one half of Christina. Lauren we are Faded Makes and Happy new year everyone. May 2026 bring all good things.
[98:42]
B
Or at least some good ones. I. I mean again, bar is low. Sorry, sorry it's been a tough year everybody.
[98:49]
A
Grumpy sunshine here as usual. We love you. Please take care of yourselves and each other and we will see you in the New Year.

S08.15: Jen & Sarah's New Year's Milkin' Eve!

S08.15: Jen & Sarah's New Year's Milkin' Eve!

Fated Mates, S08.15: "Jen & Sarah's New Year's Milkin' Eve!"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Lactation Kink? Setting Up the New Year's Milkin' Eve

2. The Spectrum of Lactation Kink in Romance

3. Their Early Encounters with the Trope [07:48+]

4. Motherhood, Kink, and Emotional Resonance

5. Types, Tropes, and Notorious Titles [23:49+]

6. Male Gaze, Gender Essentialism, and Metaphor

7. Authors and Standout Books

8. Discussion of Realistic Versus Fantastical Narratives

9. Expanding the Amazon Algorithm: Finding These Books

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Series Standouts & Recommendations

Reflections & Listener Engagement

Final Thoughts

Fated Mates, S08.15: "Jen & Sarah's New Year's Milkin' Eve!"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Lactation Kink? Setting Up the New Year's Milkin' Eve

2. The Spectrum of Lactation Kink in Romance

3. Their Early Encounters with the Trope [07:48+]

4. Motherhood, Kink, and Emotional Resonance

5. Types, Tropes, and Notorious Titles [23:49+]

6. Male Gaze, Gender Essentialism, and Metaphor

7. Authors and Standout Books

8. Discussion of Realistic Versus Fantastical Narratives

9. Expanding the Amazon Algorithm: Finding These Books

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Series Standouts & Recommendations

Reflections & Listener Engagement

Final Thoughts