S08.29: Jen & Sarah Answer Your Burning Questions

Summary

Fated Mates S08.29: Jen & Sarah Answer Your Burning Questions
Release Date: April 8, 2026

Episode Overview
In this lively "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) episode, Fated Mates co-hosts Sarah MacLean (bestselling romance author) and Jen Prokop (romance critic and editor) get together in Brooklyn to answer listener questions pulled from their Discord and social media. The conversation flows with their trademark warmth, humor, and deep knowledge of the romance genre, covering everything from book recommendations and publishing history to favorite tropes, industry anecdotes, and personal insights. The episode is peppered with memorable quotes and reveals, including a foray into quirky author recipes, reflections on place and setting in romance, and advice for both librarians and readers.

Jump to a section of interest:

• Recapping Romance Publishing History & Katherine Falk
• AMA: Personal & Fun Question Highlights
• Deep-Dive Romance Book Recommendations
• Industry Questions: Formats, Signings, and Editing
• Setting, Place, and Author Favorites
• Sex Lessons Trope Rec List & Meta

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Recapping Romance Publishing History & Katherine Falk (00:00–15:19)

• Jen and Sarah open with lighthearted banter about travel mishaps and being "busy and important" (00:34), leading into a deep dive into romance history.

• Sarah introduces Katherine Falk—iconic figure and publisher of the Romantic Times magazine, comparing its influence to "the Rolling Stone of romance" (04:23).

• Jen reveals she still owns 20+ years of Romantic Times and is considering cataloging them (03:20).

• Discussion of Love's Leading Ladies (1982), Falk's book profiling romance novelists, famous for including author astrological signs and favorite recipes (07:27–08:39):

  "Every person is asked to give a recipe, their favorite recipe. And I think this is the sort of... how do you do it all and keep the house kind of completely." – Sarah (08:52)
  

Standout Moments & Quotes

• Jude Devereaux on writing heroines with agency:

  "I wanted a heroine with a mind of her own and one who had decided a purpose in life other than being raped... personally, I wouldn’t want a kidnapper and rapist in my house. I’m the old-fashioned type." – Jude Devereaux via Sarah (09:13, 09:28)

• Fern Michaels origin story: revealed to have begun as the pen name for two women, inspired by a plastic plant (11:01).
• Hilarity over the “Liberated Stud”–an unpublished “graphic” manuscript by the Fern Michaels duo, used as their sex scene guide (12:12–13:13).
• Rosemary Rogers’ legendary lifestyle:

  "She bought an apartment in New York City and she basically started going to Studio 54 every night... Brown rice is one of Rosemary’s favorite dishes. She swears by its nutritional benefits." – Sarah (13:38–14:14)

• Sarah teases an Instagram series making author recipes (“Maybe I want to do a little...like, make every single recipe in this book,” 10:31).

---

AMA: Personal & Fun Question Highlights (15:19–26:30)

Questions for Eric:

• Eric’s response to “What song do you want to hear played on the organ?” prompts laughter:

  "Be Aggressive, by Faith no More, which everybody is a song about blowjobs." – Sarah (16:25)

If They Were Regency Spinsters (22:31):

• Jennifer: the nosy local gossip (“I’d be really good at the, you know, chatting up the locals,” 24:12).
• Sarah: the rabble-rouser, rallying the parade (“I’d be in the parade,” 24:25).
• Sarah on “tying up” tools in historical romance:

  “I said, a ship’s rope. And it was like, answer number four. Number one was a cravat, everyone. And I mean, fine. But in the Sarah MacLean universe, that is not accurate.” (25:28)

• Book ref: Brazen and the Beast, notable for “ship’s rope” scene (“there’s a very famous line...related to the ship’s rope—enjoy yourself,” 26:00).

---

Deep-Dive Romance Book Recommendations (26:30–50:39)

For Librarians—Advice on Romance Advisory (26:10+)

1. Understand Romance = HEA (“happily ever after”)—it means more than marriage-and-babies (26:45).
2. There’s a “deep bench” in romance—something for everyone; find cornerstone resources (28:00).
3. Know current romance entry points for new readers (Heated Rivalry, Bridgerton) and anticipate those requests (29:21).

Motorcycle Club & Mafia Romance (19:27+)

• Great MC/mafia “vibes” authors:
  • Mila Finelli (Joanna Shupe’s pen name)—New York State of Mafia series
  • Amelia Shea—Ghost Town series & variants (“heroines really different and interesting” – Jen, 21:06)

Mystery/Suspense “X Files” Vibes (45:13):

• Julie James—FBI/US Attorney series.
  • “Something About You” as classic enemies-to-lovers, forced-partners mystery (“work partners who hate each other and then fall in love,” 46:34)
• Jen will add gay FBI agent recs in show notes; mentions “liquor” in titles.
• Other recs: Sherry Thomas for historical mystery (“writing what I would consider, like, mystery—which some have romance elements,” 48:21).

Romance with Joy & Sadness (“The Gunk” but Romantic, 51:57):

• Kennedy Ryan—Before I Let Go (“draws sadness perfectly,” 52:47)
• Kate Claiborne—The Paris Match (“goodness of letting go of failure, finding new joy,” 54:16)
• Mariam Pereira—The Beast Prince (“romance as healing—very heavy, complex emotion,” 55:26)

Toronto Settings (63:12):

• Farah Heron
• Jenny Holiday—Bridesmaids Behaving Badly series set in Toronto (“One and Only” a favorite)
• Mila Finelli (again): New York State of Mafia #2, part set in Toronto
• Advice: check out Toronto Romance Writers group

Ohio-based Romance (71:27):

• Janet Dailey (caveat: not truly about Ohio)—Jen notes “in name only” (72:59)
• Jenny Crusie—Welcome to Temptation (“This lady really knows Ohio,” 73:16)
• Emily Henry lives in Cincinnati but isn’t “about” Ohio

Sex Lessons Trope (77:22):

• Sarah: The Pleasure Principle by Jane O’Reilly (“her boss throws sex parties...teaches her everything,” 79:21)
• The Kiss Quotient by Helen Hoang (sex lessons, neurodiverse heroine, “modern classic,” 80:11)
• Sarah’s own: One Good Earl Deserves a Lover
• They promise a full episode on this trope (“we will, because we keep saying we should, and you love it,” 78:17).

---

Industry Questions: Formats, Signings, and Editing (36:38–63:57)

Paperback Formats—Mass Market vs. Trade vs. Hardcover (36:38):

• Trade paperbacks began supplanting mass market in early 2010s (Julie James and Kate Noble among first, 37:47); reason = higher price point, changing reader habits (YA crossover).
• The shift accelerated pre- and post-pandemic due to printer closures and profitability pressures (“used books are going to become really valuable...the only versions of a lot of those books in print”—Sarah, 42:13).
• Note: Most historicals remained mass market much longer; only recently have some gone trade (Harper St. George, India Holton, Evie Dunmore—but often positioned as “historical fiction”).

Book Signings—“How Not to Make it Awkward” (33:42):

> “It’s not awkward for the author, is my answer...there is no...awkardness.” – Sarah  
> “Ask genuine questions—meet the author where they want to be met, about the books they have written.” – Jen

• PSA: Do NOT print out negative Goodreads reviews for signings—“that’s just being mean” (34:49).

Editing Life—Has Editing Changed How Jen Reads? (60:12)

> “Unless you are paying me, I’m not going to read like a developmental editor. Can you turn it off? I sure as fuck [can]...I would honestly stop editing if that...was ruining me as a reader.” – Jen  

• If she cannot “turn it off,” it’s “usually a book I’m disappointed in” (62:24).
• She values intentionality and sees “broken promises to the reader” as a key sign a book isn’t working.

Writing Contemporaries vs. Historicals (64:48)

• Sarah: “I think there is a certain kind of writer who cares a lot about setting. I think I care a lot about setting.”
• Writing contemporary (A Duke Worth Falling For) during the pandemic was her way to “bring me out of this crazy world” (65:11).
• Contemporary novels allow her to “expand the world of characters,” unlike her “two dummies falling in love” focus in historicals (66:24–67:26).

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Setting, Place, and Author Favorites (63:57–75:50)

• Both discuss the importance of setting and how it shapes identity—Jen: “Place does matter. Place matters deeply. I really believe that, like, where you are, you are who you are because of where you are...” (76:19)
• Nostalgia and author DNA:
  • Jen: Julie Garwood “is in my DNA,” also Beverly Jenkins, Jude Devereaux (69:03). • Sarah: Judith McNaught for emotional comfort (“get a quick hit of Kingdom of Dreams,” 70:01); Lorraine Heath as her “favorite, fearless, modern” historical author (“all gas, no brakes”—Sarah, 70:27).

---

Sex Lessons Trope Rec List & Meta (77:22–81:54)

• They brainstorm the challenge of identifying “sex lessons” books since it’s rarely highlighted in blurbs—Sarah is building a list.
• Recap of favorites (see above).

  “Sometimes the best romances are the ones where it’s just a clear, straight shot of concept.” – Sarah (79:21)

• Sarah promises more on this trope in future episodes.

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Notable Quotes

• “It seems wild that somebody loved romance enough that they would invest so much of their time, energy, and frankly, money into building a magazine that was essentially a romance review.” – Sarah, on Katherine Falk (04:00)
• “Sometimes the best romances are the ones where, like, it’s just a clear, straight shot of concept.” – Sarah, on “The Pleasure Principle” (79:21)
• “Place does matter. Place matters deeply. I really believe that where you are, you are who you are because of where you are in a lot of ways. And you can, like, fight a place...but you cannot be happy everywhere.” – Jen (76:19)
• “If only I could be as fearless as this woman is.” – Sarah, on Lorraine Heath (71:03)
• “We are fated mates.” – Sarah, closing

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[Timestamps Referenced Throughout; Ad Sections Omitted]

Find all the books and resources mentioned at fatedmates.net under Episodes.

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This episode is a goldmine for romance fans seeking recommendations, publishing context, and community—and a treat for anyone curious about the lived experience of two “novel people.”

Transcript

[Sarah MacLean]

We don't even have to count Sarah. We don't. Because we are together at last.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Once again, reporting in from Sarah's couch

[Sarah MacLean]

in Brooklyn, which is where we do most of our. Ask me anything.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Right. Because we're together for whatever reason. Now, the reason we're together today. This is many weeks ago that we are recording, but I was traveling and then Sarah was traveling, and then there was a snowstorm. There's a snowstorm supposed to be together. Then it was Easter, or it's going to be Easter. And so we're recording this episode on. I think it's airing April 8, many, you know, in the past. Because otherwise I wouldn't get that.

[Sarah MacLean]

We're very busy and important.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

We're not really. I just am headed to England to see my aunt. Oh, that's nice. I know. Well, I haven't seen her since before the pandemic. I haven't actually been to England since before the pandemic, so. Oh, that's right. You were supposed to go. Actually, this is a. You are going to be like, of course. This is a very Sarah story.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Kate Claiborne is actually gonna be like, of course. This is a very Sarah story. So I was supposed to go to England in April of 2020. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It would've been 2020.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I made plans with Louisa Darling, and we were going to go together, and because we were both turning 40, and we were like, all right, we're gonna do this thing. And we made this big plan. And then In March of 2020, everything just collapsed. Sure. Around us. And so we said, okay, no problem. We're gonna. We're gonna, you know, cancel our trip. We'll go in May. We'll go in June. And I went, for some reason, to look for my passport. For some reason. And my passport had expired, like, so I wouldn't have been able to go to London anyway. That's insane, because the day I pulled it out of the. The safe, I would have been like, oh, shit, my passport is expired.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Wow.

[Sarah MacLean]

And that would have been sad, because Louisa would have been stuck in London. But, I mean, not sad for Louisa, but sad for me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sad if you're planning a trip with a person who isn't there. I mean, you know.

[Sarah MacLean]

Anyway, my passport is now renewed and I'm heading to England to see my aunt, who is an aging English woman, and. Yeah, that's nice. I'm taking my daughter to see her and. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Has she ever been to England before?

[Sarah MacLean]

Yes, she has. She. But she was little. She was so little. We went. We actually went the summer of 2019. Oh, I think I do remember that. Right before everything went chaos.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then. So, yeah, so. But now she's a pro. Cause she came to Australia with me and New Zealand, and now she just thinks that this is what people do. They just take international trips all the time. Some people do do that, which apparently is true for her. So. But speaking of older women, I have something I'd like to bring to the class. So I had on my shelf in my office a copy of Katherine Falk, everybody. I think that Katherine. We've talked about Katherine Falk on the podcast before, at least a little bit. She was the owner and publisher of Romantic Times magazine, Jen's favorite magazine. And it's like the New Yorker and Romantic Times together. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I actually have like 20 years of. 25 years of it, and I haven't really done much with it, but maybe I'll have a reason to soon. But, you know, maybe I need to put them in order and start scanning, essentially. Cause I'm like, what am I supposed to do with all this stuff? This is crazy.

[Sarah MacLean]

So we're not indexed, everyone.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's just.

[Sarah MacLean]

You bought it from ebay, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I bought it from a woman on ebay who basically was like, I have all these. And I. You know, I mean, like, clearly this is someone who was like, really taking good care of them. And then I realized, like, you know what I mean? Like, in order for them to be useful, you have to sort of index them. And I just have never done that. So, you know, maybe a summer project

[Sarah MacLean]

for me, I mean, the Romantic Times was this remarkable thing, though. It seems wild that somebody loved romance enough and that they would invest so much of their time, energy, and frankly, money into building a magazine that was essentially a romance review.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I guess the closest thing I would compare it to is something like Rolling Stone, because there were like, little articles at the front. I mean, it was never. It was never Rolling Stone the way Rolling Stone was like, where the articles were, like, remarkable, you know, unpacking the politics of the United States. And then here's a review of. Of the latest Police album.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

But, you know, it was. There were. There was always somebody on the COVID although I assumed that was an ad. Like, publishers probably paid for that space. And then there were like interviews inside or like little stories about romancy stuff inside. And then. But probably two thirds or even three quarters of that magazine was just interviews, straight up reviews. And it was like star. A star system. And they had Professional reviewers. I remember Kathy Robin was the historical reviewer and she reviewed. If you got a five star review from Kathy Robin. Actually, there were no five stars. It was the highest was four and a half stars and maybe you could get a five. But I remember there was like four and a half and. And then there was like four and a half gold. And that was the. It was like. It was like my immigrant father was in charge of raiding.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, nothing's really good enough.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, it's never perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. Right. So now you can be a doctor, too. Exactly.

[Sarah MacLean]

So anyway, Catherine was always everywhere, too. And I. I don't mean to speak of her in the past. I think. I believe she's still alive and. But she was always everywhere, anytime there was a romance, anything. And then there was the RT conference, which was wild times, which was both for. So where RWA was for romance authors, kind of exclusively. RT was really for readers. And readers would come and they could meet authors. And there was the Mr. Romance conference or contest. So Katherine knew everybody. And it's sort of like legendarily, if you were new to the genre, you might get like a text, like a message from her, an email, or at the time on, you know, when. When I started, I was on Facebook and she messaged me on Facebook and was like, please send your phone number. I'd like to call you. And you just sort of felt like, oh, no, that's gonna happen now.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then this, like, lady would call you and she would sort of tell you her lore.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And you felt very much like you had been. You had been blessed by this woman who had a ton of both power and influence and also real love for the genre. Anyway, at some point in the world, Catherine wrote a book, and maybe she wrote more than one, but she's written

[Jennifer Prokop]

a couple books about how to write a romance that I have one of. And there's like, there's I. Everybody. I have a small collection of books. I collect books where people talk about how to write romance because I'm fascinated by them.

[Sarah MacLean]

So this is copyright 1982, and it's called Love's Leading Ladies. So to sort of paint you a picture, this is 10 years into the modern romance novel.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And it is significant. It is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

There we go.

[Sarah MacLean]

You know, there is. I don't even know now. I'm sort of distracted by it. But it's, you know, 300 or so pages and every. And it's maybe, I don't know, a hundred, probably less, like 85 famous romance novelists. And each romance novelist has, like, a little biographical text written by Catherine. Catherine. And as part of it, they are asked a number of things. There are astrological signs.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, it's like that Happily Ever after society book, but, you know, a lot crazier.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then, like, you know, how they got into it, how they think about their books. And then every person is asked to give a recipe, their favorite recipe. And I think this is the sort of.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, this is really interesting.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's a real, like, how do you do it all and keep the house kind of completely. Right, like, question.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right, the. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

So I just want to share Jen, a few of the gems from this book, because I think, you know, since we're together and we're doing an ama, this is the kind of episode where this would be well received.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Appropriate. Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

So I have to say the first one that I have is Jude Devereaux, who we all know we love here at Fated Mates. And she talks about writing romance, and she did not. We've had Judeau on the podcast.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And now I sort of wish, like, we'd read this first because I would have liked to have had follow up say it here, but. So she talks about writing the Enchanted Land, her first romance novel. And she says, I wrote the Enchanted Land because I couldn't find a book that I wanted to read. I wanted a heroine with a mind of her own and one who. Who had decided a purpose in life other than being raped. And then she says, personally, I wouldn't want a kidnapper and rapist in my house. I'm the old fashioned type.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, if that's the old fashioned type, then me too.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I was like, what's happening here, Jude Devereaux. So you know Jude, if you listen to our conversation with her, she's a real straight shooter.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

So this actually doesn't super surprise me, but she is a Virgo and, you know, and her recipe that is included in this book and everybody. I did tell Jen that, like, now I think I want to do, like,

[Jennifer Prokop]

a little, like, she's gonna make these recipes. I've always been like, oh, I don't do videos.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, I'm not interested in doing videos, but, like, part of me wants to make every single recipe in this book. Her recipe is for sausage cake, which sounds disgusting, but sausage cake, Maybe Eric would like to eat it. Then I want to talk about Fern Michaels.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. This is wild. Right?

[Sarah MacLean]

We didn't know Jen and I didn't know Fern Michaels started out as two people.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then what did you discover?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, so Then I went to Wikipedia and was like, what happened there?

[Sarah MacLean]

And Mary Cuts and Roberta Anderson.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. So Mary and Roberta rode together as Fern Michaels, named after, according to this, a plastic fern in one of their offices. It was a wild time, everybody.

[Sarah MacLean]

I don't just say, as I said to Jen, it's actually incredibly difficult to kill a fern. So I don't know why it was plastic.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so then according to Wikipedia, in 1989, Mary took over, and Roberta just, like, wrote Fern Michaels on her own then for. I mean, she died recently. So, like, this is. We're talking then for however many decades, just like the one of them wrote as Fern Michaels.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay, so let me tell you the story of Mary Ann, Roberta's first book. First, we had to get rid of our sexual inhibitions. We were two women who couldn't write the word thigh or breast without being horrified. I'm glad we decided to write I make chicken.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That'd be funny if that was our recipe. Sorry. Sorry, everyone. Okay, I'm not sorry.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm glad we decided to write a real pornographic type book the first time out.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, my goodness.

[Sarah MacLean]

We needed to learn to free ourselves. And the first book, which has never actually been published, did the trick. We called it the Liberated Stud, actually. Although it's graphic, it's quite pretty in its sexual passages. The story is about five housewives of varied backgrounds who are sexually frustrated. And they place an advertisement in a local newspaper for a Playboy, and they get an answer naturally. He's the Liberated Stud. That does actually sound very. Before it's time I would read this book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would read the hell out of it. Although you've got to imagine, like, they called it pornography. And it's probably like two sentences.

[Sarah MacLean]

Listen to this. No. He's the world's greatest and sexiest and tenderest lover. He liberates all F5 housewives. Yeah, sure, of course. And we use this book as a guide to future love scenes. In all our other books. Will the Liberated Stud ever be published? Only at a price we couldn't refuse. So challenge accepted.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Publishing. Somebody go to. Where'd Fern leave her papers? I know, right? My goodness.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then. I just want to share, and then we'll be done with this. But I want to talk about Rosemary Rogers. Who? I mean, sure, Rosemary Rogers, notoriously, everybody. When she got real famous and was making a ton of money on her books, which were making a ton of money.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

She bought an apartment in New York City and she basically started going to Studio 54 every night.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, good for her.

[Sarah MacLean]

She was just like, this is the life I have been aiming for. Okay? So she says. So she. Everybody's been asked for their recipes. I didn't even tell you what Fern Michaels is. Oh, Fern Michaels recipe is fried crab, everybody. But. So Rosemary's asked for her recipes. Please remember, this lady goes to Studio 54 every night. Brown rice is one of Rosemary's favorite dishes. She swears by its nutritional benefits.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

She is frequently seen dining with a handsome escort at Maxims or Regines in Paris, where she indulges in a dinner fit for one of her heroines. No recipes available for all that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Wait, are you gonna do the mushroom one?

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, I don't know where. What happened to that one?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, good. It was disgusting. Everybody, but everybody.

[Sarah MacLean]

Just so that you know, Sandra Brown's recipe includes is. Is guacamole. But she does say that she likes vanilla ice cream with Kahlua on top. And she drinks sangria almost every day.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, bless. Good job.

[Sarah MacLean]

Exactly. So that is Love's Leading Ladies by Katherine Falk. And if you're interested in more of those recipes, maybe follow me on Instagram.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah. This could get me to like, to actually, like, go down that road. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Video status.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, that does sound fascinating.

[Sarah MacLean]

Anyways, welcome, everyone, to Fated Mates. I'm Sarah Maclean. I read romance novels and I write them. And I am fascinated by old romance authors cooking.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And today we're here, and what we're going to be doing is on our discord, we put a kind of a call for, like, ama questions. And so some are, like, for recommendation. Some are, do you have a question for us together? Some questions just for Sarah, some questions just for Jed. And then we said, does anyone have questions just for Eric? And we're going to start with this because it's really, really funny. And a lot of them were just kind of like, you know, thank you, and you're awesome. But there's one. And you know what, everybody? I'm sorry. I didn't even say, like, what's your name? Or anything. So probably we would have forgotten that. Tell that. Anyway, so there was what somebody said, for Eric, what song do you want to hear played on the organ? So we called him down here and we were like. We asked him the question and he actually. Everyone chortled. I would say, like.

[Sarah MacLean]

I would say, which is rare, everyone,

[Jennifer Prokop]

the sound that came out. That's why I was like, we gotta ask him this one. It was really funny. And then he sort of was like none. And then he kept thinking, because of course that's a really provocative question.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then he said, be Aggressive by Faith no More, which everybody is a song about blowjobs.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So he's like.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I don't know why, but that's

[Jennifer Prokop]

the first thing that popped in my head. So.

[Sarah MacLean]

And what I would say is, if you know anything about Faith no More, I feel like Mike Patton just got a chill and was like, I need to write re. Reform Be aggressive on the organ for some strange reason.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So you know, my friend Son, he. His husband is like an organist. He really had play the organ.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, maybe you could ask him. I'm.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I might have to do that. I might be like, laird, can you please fire up your organ and record Be Aggressive by Faith no More? I'm sure. Is there sheet music for such a thing? I don't know. I'm gonna find out.

[Sarah MacLean]

Every organ, an organ rendition, sheet music? Probably not. But he's like a real organized.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure, he'd probably figure it out, make me make do. I mean, it's pretty funny. So anyway, that's a great, A great question. And honestly, what an answer. What an answer.

[Sarah MacLean]

What an answer. This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by MA Wardell, author of Meetings with the Minotaur, the first in his new Love at Labyrinth Solutions series. An office mon. Com meaning monster rom com.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Listen, if you have never read an MA Wardell book, I have always had a good time with every single one I read. And he writes just like every single different kind of book. So I'm really looking forward to this. So what we have here are Magnus, our Minotaur CEO. He is very in control in the boardroom, in his life, and over the beast that lives inside his suit.

[Sarah MacLean]

Is he though?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Until Jamie Torres walks into his world. Now Jamie, Magnus thinks, is his new junior strategist. Right? But on. What he doesn't know is that Jamie is essentially impersonating this high level executive to impress Magnus. In fact, he is straight out of the mailroom. So the truth is Jamie is trying to keep his professional smile in place while staring at Magnus's very amazing horns. His thighs, his everything. So. But you know, when push comes to shove, Jamie really maybe might be the guy to help land like a huge new account. Or will his lies be discovered and will he be sent back to the basement? Oh boy.

[Sarah MacLean]

I can bet that horns will be involved.

[Jennifer Prokop]

They better, right?

[Sarah MacLean]

If you are also interested in how the horns get involved, then you can get this book, Meetings with the Minotaur right now in print, ebook, audiobook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it. You can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Ma Wardell for sponsoring this week's episode. Oh, here's one for you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Because we're never going to do a motorcycle club episode, because I don't. I don't read motorcycle clubs. Not for some reason other than just. It's just not my thing.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

All right, so I've just finished Joanna Wilde's Reaper series, and I loved it. The characters, the angst, the. The sexiness, the plot, all of it is perfect. Would love another wreck like this. It can be motorcycle club or not.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I would say so. I would. I have a couple of answers. Okay, so Joanna Shoop and I did a, like, a thing once on, like, sort of Motorcycle Club versus Mafia. And I think that, like, Joanna's Mafia series, which is under her pen name, Mila Finelli, actually, I think would, like, sort of hit a lot of those same kind of beats, right? Like, kind of the sexiness and the, like, edge of violence and, you know, that kind of thing. And she also writes, like, a real strong heroine, but often ones that are, you know, kind of like, trapped by circumstances. And I think that's what a lot of the. To me, like, the appeal of those books can be the sort of, like, I'm really down on my luck for whatever reason, or like, sort of this world is the only world that. That I have. And so I would say Joanna's like any of Joanna's Mafia books in particular, maybe her. There's this, like, New York State of Mafia series because it's sort of like in the, you know, like, sort of small town girl kind of like falling into this world, which I think a lot of the Reapers books kind of fall, kind of have that vibe. And then in terms of like, a straight up motorcycle series, I really like the Ghost Town east series by Amelia Shay. And she actually has a lot of different series. She has a first series called Ghost Town, then Ghost Town east, then there is a series called the Reign of the Underground. And I've read all of them. She just started a new one. I can't remember what it is, but I read it. And I think the thing that I like actually about Amelia's books is that a lot. One of the things I kind of struggle with in is like, in the sub genre is, like, I think it's really hard. Like, you're in when you have such a. The world is so small, right? It's the motorcycle club or the mafia or whatever. I think it's really hard to figure out how to make the books feel really different or interesting. And the answer is, you do that by making the heroines really different and interesting. I think Joanna figured that out. I think Joanna Wilde figured it out, and I think that Amelia Shea has figured it out. So when you read these books, it's like, you know, the men are just like, you know, I'm the president or whatever. I'm the road capped, whatever their dumb titles are. Sorry if those are real. But in the books themselves, like, all these women who kind of like, get involved in this world are really different. So I would say those are two authors that you should check out would be Mila Finelli and Amelia Shea. Do we want to do a question for us? Wait, this is a really funny question. Okay. All right, ready?

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The question is, what would our lives look like if we were two spinsters living together in Regency time? What tomfoolery would you get up to? Well, Sarah would be making weirdo fucking recipes. I guess I'd be doing laundry and laying on the couch reading. That's funny.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, I think that we are certainly. I mean, there is a sort of a chaos to me that you do not have.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I'm real nosy, though. You'd be, like, stirring shit up in the Village. But I'd be the one, like, knowing all the what's what that's going on.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, you'd be a gossip, a real Lady Whistledown character.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I think it's the Midwesterner in me. Like, I really do love to, you know, chat with a local. I mean, even like, this morning, I'm staying at hotel in Brooklyn, and the co. The guy making my coffee, and I'm sort of chatting him up, you know, in the. In the hotel. I'm like, yeah, it's pretty quiet around here. And he's like, well, you know, it's. It's March 17th. He's like, well, you know, if. If I think a lot of people are going down for the. You know, the crowd. And I'm like, oh. Or it's the parade. And I was like, oh, sure. And then I'm like, oh, I'm from Chicago. Chicago. And I'm telling him about dying the river green. And then he's like, you know, I don't really like a crowd. And he tells me a whole story about, like, this girlfriend he had once where she did, like, a Crowd and she wanted to go see the fireworks. And he's like, you know, he's like.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I thought, you know, I'm new.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I like this girl. We're gonna go down there together. That's okay. And then he, like, kind of got. As the crowds got thicker and thicker, he just said, she's not worth it. And, like,

[Sarah MacLean]

she's not, you know, like, just brutal.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. She's like. He's like, my fear of crowds is bigger than whatever I feel for this lady. And so he just peeled off and that was that.

[Sarah MacLean]

You gotta respect it, I guess.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I. But I did. I found myself thinking, like, I'd be really good at the, you know, chatting up the locals. Like, listen, if a stranger came to town, I would know what's up.

[Sarah MacLean]

No.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Immediately, I would know. Yeah. I'd be the person finding that.

[Sarah MacLean]

No. And I would be sort of the local rabble rouser. I'd be in the parade.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. You wouldn't be. I'd be like, oh, the parade's happening. Happening. God damn it. I'm gonna stay home and read my book. Sarah, put your lace cap on like a lady.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, here. This person also has a very quick one for me, which is, I need to know which of your books used shimp wrote for sexy reasons. And now. Okay. The reason why this came up is because when I was in Rhode island for the event about historical romance with Adriana and Joanna and Caroline Linden and Ginny B. Moore, there was a question that came up about. We played a family feud, but make it romance. And so we broke into teams where, like, there were authors and then people from the audience were part of the team. And one of the questions was, you know, we asked 100 people. Yeah. What you would tie someone up with in a historical novel. Sure.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I hit my button first, obviously.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. You're like, bam.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I said, a shit ship's rope. And it was like, answer number four. Number one was a cravat, everyone. And I mean, fine. But in the Sarah MacLaine universe, that is not accurate.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure. Fifty Shades of Cravat and everybody.

[Sarah MacLean]

That book is called or to this person. Because a lot of people already know this. That book is called Brazen and the Beast, and it is the second in my Bare Knuckle Bastard series. But you can read it out of order, I would think.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I think so. I knew the answer to that question.

[Sarah MacLean]

Anyone? Everyone, enjoy yourselves. There's a very famous line that the hero says to the heroine in that book, and it's related to the ship's rope and enjoy yourself.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Nice. Nice. Okay, let's do for one for the both of us. Okay. I'm doing a presentation to Maryland and Delaware librarians, mostly public and academic libraries, in May on romance. What are three things you would like them to know? That's a great question. So for the purposes of reader advisory, it is, I think, really important for, I think, for librarians to know about the happily ever after, essentially, like, what makes a romance a romance. Because, you know, someone comes up to you, a librarian, and says, like, you know, I want to read a romance,

[Sarah MacLean]

and then you tell them about, you

[Jennifer Prokop]

know, the Fault in Our Stars or something like that. Right. So knowing the difference between a happily ever after romance, whatever that looks like, versus a, you know, there is a relationship in this book, I think a lot about how, you know, outsiders think that that feels limiting. But, you know, we know that the happily ever after can look a million different ways. That doesn't just mean marriage and a baby. That could mean a lot of different things. But really all it means is like, whatever it is that these two or three or however many people want together, they are committed to doing it together, right? To being together.

[Sarah MacLean]

The other thing I always feel is important to say to people who don't know a lot about romance is, I guess it's twofold. One is that romance is a deep. Like, there's a deep bench to romance. And because there is such a deep bench for romance, there is really something for everyone in this world. I think one of the challenges for one of the barriers to entry for librarians and booksellers in romance is, and I hear it all the time from booksellers about romance, especially in independent bookstores that don't carry a lot of romance is this sort of sense of it's so big, I don't know where. I don't know what to carry. Like, I don't know where to begin with somebody. And I think that one of the valuable things for librarians to know is that basically, if you're interested in literally anything, there is a romance out there for you. And so discoverability, obviously, knowing that that is a big hurdle for a lot of people who do book recommendations and discovery. I would say I would want them to understand and know that there are cornerstone places where they can go to learn more about the genre, but also to, like, find those books. Like, what are the books that should be on your shelf? Where can I get best books of the year up? You know, lists. Where can I get respected lists of books about you know, whatever, a certain type of person, a certain identity, a certain place, a certain time period. And I think obviously this is not a plug for faded mates, but like, we exist, Smart bitches exist. Like, there are, there are a number of places where people can go to get those lists and to explore.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would say the third thing is, okay, someone coming in the door who is new to romance is probably going to be driven by like right now in time, either Bridgerton or Heated Rivalry. Right. Like we, we're seeing new pathways opening in front of readers, right, that are going to like kind of bring them into the genre. And so, you know, if I was a librarian who knew nothing about romance, I would sort of trust my die hard romance readers to already know how to maybe discover new books. But what I would be doing is trying to be able to answer that question of, okay, I really loved Heated Rivalry the show. What can I read now? I really love Bridgerton, the show. It feels like what I would want to do is really think strategically about

[Sarah MacLean]

who is going to be coming into

[Jennifer Prokop]

me as a librarian. Right. And then.

[Sarah MacLean]

And for your academic librarians, I mean,

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think there's some people doing academic research in romance, but I think a lot of what, a lot of the stuff that's interesting that's happening in romance is like really being driven by TikTok and Instagram and podcasts and things like that. And, and so academic romance, it exists and is out there. And they, you know, obviously these are people who are also deeply invested in the genre if they're bothering to write about it. But people coming in who are like, I didn't think I would like romance, but I sure did like Heated Rivalry. You should be prepared for that. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

I feel like I have heard that from so many people who are like, have you watched Heated Rivalry? Do you know about Heated Rivalry? And when I'm like, yes, it's a book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

They're like, wait, what? Like they really are shocked to learn that there are books that feel like this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by K. Lynn, author of Lights Camera. Not that is K N O T. Not everybody.

[Sarah MacLean]

So K. Lynn is someone we actually all know. This is the Omegaverse pen name and this is the debut from the Omega Verse pen name of Kayla Gross, who you all know, if you've listened to Faded Mates, we think Kayla's great. She always writes these like high heat, very sexy contemporaries that are that feature plus sized heroines. So I'm a big fan and I'm super excited for this one, which is Heat Mm F M Omegaverse Romance starring Iris Walker, who is an actress and she's landed a lead role in a romantic comedy called Notting Hill with a K A plus complete with an all star cast and crew. And finally, finally the chance to prove just how good of an actress she really is beyond the roles that she's always been pigeonholed into except set. Iris's heat suppressants have just worn off and she is going into heat hard. And the director, cinematographer, writer and leading man are all her scent matches, which means that they may have come to make movie magic, but they're going to be making a lot of magic in other ways too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Teamwork makes the dream work.

[Sarah MacLean]

Listen, if the COVID is any suggest is any indication, this is going to be a blazing hot Omega verse romance for anybody who is excited excited about that, I certainly am.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So if you would like to check out Lights Camera, not the first in the Angel City Omega series, it is available in print, audio and with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it. You can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Kay Lynn for sponsoring this week's episode. Okay, this is a great question. It says for Sarah only, but I think we can both talk about it, which is okay. Someone said I find it very awkward talking to my favorite authors at book signings. What is the best way for a fan to not make that experience awkward for the author?

[Sarah MacLean]

It's not awkward for the author, is my answer. I think we are so grateful to meet you at book signings and to spend a little time with you and we appreciate that you've made time in your day for us. I mean it. There is no, I mean, I would say the old, the, the awkward experiences that I have had with, with people at book signings are often with other authors. Like it's the, the reader author experience is not awkward at all for us. We are so happy to meet you and you shouldn't. I. I'm not going to tell you you shouldn't feel awkward, but I hope that I can allay and assuage some of your feelings about it by telling you that, like, we are not feeling that awkwardness.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Part of the reason I picked this one is I've been seeing something like fairly horrifying on threads, which is authors reporting that what people are doing is printing out like bad reviews from Goodreads and then like, yeah, I saw this too.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I. What I know.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so I guess I would say, but that's why we. That's just being mean. And I think that's like more than anything else, like, this is a person who, if they're, if you're meeting them in a public venue, right, like they're, you know, giving a talk or they're, you know, at a bookstore with a book coming out or they're at a bookcon, you know, these are authors who have said, like, I want to do this, I want to meet fans. So I will say this. I really love going to Book Cons. And what I really like to do is, you know, you're going to see huge long lines for some authors, right? Because of course, you know, you're there to see your favorites. But one of my favorite things in a way that I have really found, like interesting good books is by going up to people with like a shorter line or, you know, with no line because there's so many people. And just what I often ask authors is I say, you know, like, they have several books for sale often. And I say, like, well, which one is your favorite? Tell me about it. I feel like the way for me to make that a. Because I have that same awkward thing. Like Sarah's always, like, I don't even often tell people, like, I'm from Fated Mates. Like, what if they don't know and then I have to explain and then it's awkward. I'm feeling awkward too.

[Sarah MacLean]

But if, you know, if it's an

[Jennifer Prokop]

author and someone is asking, like, with genuine curiosity, right, like, tell me about your books and which one is your favorite? That to me is, I would imagine an author would love to answer that question or talk about, you know, the writing experience. Experience. So one of the ways I do that is really by like meeting the author where they want to be met, which is about the books that they have, you know, written. Okay, this is an interesting question. And I think we're going to do this because we care about it. Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

That's a big one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Okay, so it says, can we talk about the history of the paperback formats for romance? So essentially it's like kind of the trade paperback versus the mass market paperback. You know, were other historicals ever in trade, right? Like, or did they stay in mass market? And I would say, like, one of the things you should know, everybody is that, you know, when it comes to like mass market, like the size of the book is about the price point

[Sarah MacLean]

on your end, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, a mass market paperback was a lot cheaper than a trade size paperback, which is cheaper than A card back book. But that also means that the margins are different for booksellers. So, you know, when it comes to a trade paperback, you can sell it for a lot more, but it's actual printing costs is not a whole lot more.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right. So the, I mean, trades existed obviously before the pandemic and the goal of moving the books from mass market to trade. Berkeley started it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, no, wasn't it who. Who did the Hating Game?

[Sarah MacLean]

No, it happened before that. So Berkeley moved contemporary romance from mass market to paperback in the early tens. And it was Julie James, actually, weirdly, who I'm going to talk about later in this episode. But it was Julie James. And it was sort of this like moment where we all kind of like lifted our head and we're like, oh, Julie who had been published in mass market.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yep.

[Sarah MacLean]

Was being moved over into trade. And we all sort of knew, like, oh, something is happening. Kate Noble was moved right around then too. And it was like it was a big talk and sort of, I would think it was sort of right when my first book came out. So I would say like it was like 2009, 2010 when this all happened.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What I remember about that is it was the first time my local indie bookstore actually had a romance because it

[Sarah MacLean]

was worth putting on the shelf. So Jen is right that it was about Price Point. And then right before the pandemic, there was a panel discussion about romance novels at Penguin Random House. I went to it, it was maybe February of 2019, and Berkeley kind of said it was a bunch of different editors. And Cindy Huang, who was an editor at Berkeley, was on the panel and she said, we are moving ro. We moved romance into trade because. Contemporary romance into trade because we saw that YA readers were growing up and they were willing to spend more money on books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Than. Than adult readers were. And so we sort of thought, well, what we'll do is we'll follow that trend and move them in this direction. Now you're right that the Hating Game, when it came out, which was an Avon book, came out in trade. And it was a sort of. It was a big deal that, that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, and it had that like really distinctive cartoon character.

[Sarah MacLean]

It was the first of its kind. And then Berkeley quickly followed with Helen Hoing and Jasmine Guillory, you know, behind. And so, you know, those three really sort of made a big. A big splash. This question includes a question, a sort of sub question about nine rules to break when Romancing Rake, which was my first romance novel and came out in mass market in 2010. But then was re released in trade at some point.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I don't remember when.

[Sarah MacLean]

2020, maybe 2019, maybe. I can't remember. It was maybe the 10th anniversary of it. And that was because there was a kind of question of, well, could we move historical into trade? And it was a test balloon more than anything else. And that, you know, the problem is, is that with a test balloon, you really need a new book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And that book was, you know, a decade old and people had already bought it in mass and read it in mass. And so there wasn't really. It wasn't a good example. But nobody else was getting trade at the time in historical. And we've only just recently seen historical move toward trade. Harper St. George was moved into trade.

[Jennifer Prokop]

India Holton.

[Sarah MacLean]

India Holton, Evie Dunmore. But I would argue Evie Dunmore was really pushed not as romance, but as historical fiction. Like historical romantic fiction. And so now the mass is. The mass is gone for lots of reasons, not the least of which is the printers. Over the course, a bunch of printers closed during the pandemic. And the printers, not every printer prints in mass. And so it was getting more expensive to print the mass markets and also be able to sell them at the same price that, you know, readers wanted them in. And so now this is why I just recently posted on. On threads like, if you care about your old historical books, like books that you love on, in E or in print, but you don't have them on your shelf yet.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

If you are the kind of person who ultimately will want them on your shelf, you need to go look in on ebay and at library sales and at tag sales in your neighborhood and book sales. Because the used versions of those mass markets are going to be the only versions of a lot of those books in print.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Which is unfortunate. But until the publishers start figuring out how they're going to reissue all of those books in print, those are also going to be the best versions of them. Because right now, for example, if you look at 11 scandals to start to Win a Duke's Heart, which is one of my books, the current printing of that, it looks terrible. The quality of the paper is bad. The color isn't bright. There's a ton about that. It's just not a good printing of it. And it's because it's being printed, you know, off market. It's not being printed by the kind of printer that it used to be printed by. So used books are going to become really valuable, I think, to the reader, I don't know if they'll become valuable, like financially, but.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure. Right. But to you, right? If you want one. Yeah. Fascinating. And bad.

[Sarah MacLean]

I want to talk about that X Files question. This week's episode of Fademates is sponsored by Blue Box Press, publishers of Jennifer Lynn Armentrouts the Summer King. A beautiful new print bind up of the three novellas in the Summer King saga, originally the Prince, the King and the Queen. So Caden is the Prince.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He is cold, heartless and deadly. And whispers of his name alone bring fear to Fae and mortals alike. He is the most dangerous being in the mortal world. Haunted by a past he couldn't control and driven by a singular desire. What's it gonna be, Sarah? That would be revenge. Yeah. There's only one person who can help him. Her name is Brighton, and she was raised in something called the Order. So she is really fully aware of what Kaden is capable of. And so even though he claims to be reformed, she wants nothing to do with him until he leaves her no choice. So, forced into an uneasy alliance, she

[Sarah MacLean]

is starting to glimpse the man beneath the ice.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, she just feels like she can't trust him. So when a enemy, right, comes back into town, a nightmare hell bent on destroying the world, this is. Brighton and Kaden have no choice but to continue to work together. But this, of course, makes it harder to deny the hunger between them.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, I'm sure they'll get over denying that hunger and we'll all be very happy for it. If you would like to read the Summer King and the Summer King saga, you can do that right now in print in this beautiful new bind up, or an ebook or audiobook if your podcasting app supports it. You can click on the chapter title to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Blue Box Press and to Jennifer Lynn Armentrout for sponsoring this week's episode. I'm dying to find a book like the first episode of X Files. And I don't remember the first episode of Text Files, but the second part of this question is any recs that involve reluctant partners while solving a mystery. Which makes sense.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And while I don't have a sci fi answer, I do want to talk about Julie James. Julie's FBI U.S. attorney series has a terrific book in it. It's the first one. It's called Something about yout. Did we read this?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think so.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's the one where she. It starts with her in the closet and he's murdered.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

So we have a deep dive episode for this one, but it's A great wreck if you haven't read it. It's about a U.S. attorney and an FBI agent who have worked together in the past. FBI agent put, like, two years of undercover and, like, intense work into a case, and then it was dropped by the U.S. attorneys for, you know, reasons. And he has resented her and blamed her for the fact that the case was dropped for, you know, years. And now they're back at it. She was in a hotel room, and there's a murder of a very important person in the room next door. And the two of them have to work together to solve the murder. And, you know, there's a lot of danger, but they don't like each other. And they. You know, Julie James does Enemies to Lovers in Work kind of every book. Like, she's really interested in work partners who hate each other and then fall in love. But this is a. It's really. She's a great writer, and this is a great book. And once you've read it, you can go listen to our Deep Dive episode. There is an.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, I think I'm gonna have a hard time coming up with this title off the top of my head. I'm not gonna find the name, but I Right now, but I will find it and put it in Show Notes. But there was a series of gay romances with an FBI agent, and they were really fun, and I think that they would sort of strike that, like, kind of vibe of, you know, like, sort of were, like, partners in crime. But. So I'm sorry. The title of that will be In Show Notes. I Will Find It. It's a whole series. And all I remember is that, like, the names of the titles have, like, liquor in them, like, ones about whiskey or something. But it is really interesting that we've talked about, like, kind of what's happening with romantic suspense. But there are a lot of romance mysteries happening right now, and. And it's interesting to figure out, like, kind of what is different, because to me, romantic suspense is like a thriller, right? Like, we're on the run. Whereas a romantic mystery is, like, we're really trying to, like, solve this crime. And often I think they've drifted away from, like, cops or FBI agents or whatever being, like, the. You know, the kind of main characters. But it is interesting to think about kind of those books. And, like, one I read was by. There's an author named Jenny Elder Moak, I think. And there was a book called, like, she Hasn't Got a Clue. And it's like, I don't think it quite has like the creepiness of the X Files, but, like, they go to, you know, an island together of, like, a wealthy. You know, it's like a wedding at, like, a billionaire's island in the, you know, Pacific Northwest, and there's, like, a dead body, and the two, like, their guests of the wedding essentially, you know, go and. And solve the crime. So I think Sherry Thomas now is writing what I would consider, like, mystery. And some of them have, like, romance elements. So that's what I would say is maybe looking for those. Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

Jen, have you ever thought of writing a romance novel?

[Jennifer Prokop]

No. You know, and I don't mean that. Here's what I would say.

[Sarah MacLean]

I can't imagine why that doesn't seem appealing to you. Well, I'll tell.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'll tell you why, Sarah. It is not that I. I don't. I don't have people running around in my head. I don't think that way. And I used to say something I think really kind of mean about myself, which is, like, that I was like, I don't think I have an imagination. This is clearly not true. I think I have lots of interesting and good ideas, but not about fictional people. And I think that, like, good writers or, you know, fiction writers are sort of constantly filtering things through the brain of, like, oh, like, this snippet of dialogue. What would the character. Who is this? You know what I mean? Like, and I just don't think I have that in me. And I think to be a good novelist, you probably have to have that going on up there. And I do not. And so, no, it's. I've never wanted to write a book, but, you know, I would not have said before I started editing that I think editing is creative work. But it is. And I think that's because, like, I'm. Look. I mean, other kind of editing I do is developmental editing. So I'm. You know, people give me their manuscripts, and what I'm doing is really looking at it and saying, okay, like, what is the. What is the best version of this book that could possibly exist? And, you know, obviously, when an author sends it to me, they're like, here's what I have. And, you know, it's like, my job to say, right, here are all the things that are working, and then, like, here are the things that aren't. And here's some ways that you might address that. Not for you as, like, prescriptive. Like, do it this way. But if I give you some ideas, you're gonna then take those ideas and, you know, run with Them. And. But often my job is also to sort of be the person to be like, this isn't working. You know, and often authors know that. But have someone. Have someone come along and kind of be like, you know, and then sort of offer again some suggestions and.

[Sarah MacLean]

And is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Is it cutting it? Is it putting it in a different order? So I. I don't have that in me, but I have this other thing in me. And I think that's a good thing too. But no, I've never in my life. And sometimes I think, like, maybe it'll come to me. I'll have a flash of it, maybe. And then I'm like, no.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, no.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Maybe. No. Really? No. Everybody. Okay.

[Sarah MacLean]

This person also asked about Duchess's book, so let's get that out of the way. Duchess's book is finished.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Woo hoo.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's finished. I don't know when it's coming out. That is a. That is above my pay grade. It was supposed to come out. Obviously. A lot of people have seen it listed for at number at a. At different times. Yeah. I think it is probably coming out early 2027. I'm sorry, everybody. It actually took a long time for me to write it because I wanted it to feel right. And so. But it is finished. It is coming. You will get it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

At least if you don't get it, it's not because of me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You've done your part of the joke.

[Sarah MacLean]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, that's funny.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay. I think this is interesting. I'm recovering from a year of breast cancer treatments and we are grateful to still have you here, whoever you are. And I'm happy that it's. You're in recovery and I'm having trouble getting back into romance. I would love a recommendation for someone for something where the main character finds joy but also has to contend with sadness. Not angst, but sadness. And something that reads like the gunk. The gunk, but with romance. Any suggestions? I think this is really interesting because I think there are a few authors who actually really nail sadness. I think Kennedy Ryan is an author who really nails sadness.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I think before I let go, which is the first in her current series, the name of which I cannot remember the name of the series. Skyland. Skyland. Yes. The Skyland series is a book where now the sadness here comes from divorce. There is mental health rep in this book. And these are characters who really have to contend with grief in the text. And it's not. I don't think it's. I don't think it's grief. I think it's. You know, it's grief, yes. But it's also just sort of sadness about, like, their. Where their lives have been, where their marriage has been. I mean, this is, of course, like a Marriage and trouble book, or it's actually. They're divorced at the beginning of the page. It's sort of a return to marriage for a divorced couple. But, you know, Kennedy, she writes a really perfectly drawn character in Sadness. I think it's not just about this series. I think she does this in a lot of her books. And so I would recommend Kennedy. If you haven't done Kennedy before, she is a good place for you to start, I was gonna say, especially now that it is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's April 8th or whatever. So Kate's book the Paris Match came out yesterday. And so this is Kate Claiborne. And in this book.

[Sarah MacLean]

That's a fun one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, Griffin is. It's really interesting because what you have are Griffin and Laila, and they're in Paris together for a wedding, and through sort of, like, the kind of setup is that the bride gets cold feet, and these two kind of feel in some ways, almost compelled to, like, trying to, like, kind of figure out what's going on because of their various relationships to the bride and groom. And both of them, I think, are really dealing with, like, both the sadness of, like, kind of the life they wanted and that they're in. Both in their, like, well into their 30s and sort of. Right. Like, these are people who had things go wrong and then kind of how you continue to deal with that because of the ways in which those failures almost continue to resonate and then kind of the. The. The goodness of being able to sort of maybe finally, like, let go of that in some way. So I think a Paris Match would be really a good one as well. And, like, it literally just came out yesterday.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm gonna switch it up and also recommend something a little Weir Is the Beast Prince by Mariam Pereira? I've talked about this book before. It's a paranormal. It's sort of a fantasy world where the whole world is run by these brothers who can command the elements. And the premise of this book is that there is a town, a kind of village that lives below the high castle in which the prince who can manipulate Earth lives. And every year, and by manipulating Earth, like, the theory in the village is that he causes mudslides and he causes earthquakes, like, he causes natural disasters. And so every year or every number of years, they send a virgin up to him to Sacrifice and basically as like tribute with the idea that like this virgin will be able to keep them, this gift will be able to keep the village safe. And in this book they send. They send up a woman who is

[Jennifer Prokop]

also the leader of the guard of

[Sarah MacLean]

this town with the idea that like, she might actually be able to vanquish him and save the village for a longer period of time. And she gets up there and she discovers him. And what we know as readers, but she. She hasn't figured out as character is that he's lost his powers. And what I would say about this book, I love this book. I think it is so interesting. I think it is a great example of what, how complex emotion can be in romance, which is, I know a little, you know, silly when we're talking about paranormal or fantasy or this kind of like, structure. But what I would say is this book is very heavy. Like he is contending with sadness over the loss of his powers. She is contending with like, responsibility, the heavy weight of responsibility. And it is a book that feels weight heavy. It feels. It's not. It does not tell the story of romance as joy. It tells the story as like romance as healing. And I think if you're. Obviously this is nothing like the gunkle, but if you're. If you're looking for something that will sort of shake loose, maybe your romance reading this could be it because it's so different than anything that you've probably read.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Lumi Gummies. Consistent, mellow and super delicious, Lumi Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of day de stressor, a midday mood boost or help getting the best sleep ever, Lumi Gummies has a strain that's right for you.

[Sarah MacLean]

So I gummed up my knee when I was in London. I went to London for like a week and I walked a bunch and I carried a really heavy purse the whole time, which was really stuck.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Stupid.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, you know when you're doing something, you're thinking to yourself, like, oh my God, this is really dumb. I shouldn't be doing this. That's exactly how I felt like for five of the eight days that we were on the island of Britain. The whole time I was like, I'm going to really like, I could feel my. My knee sort of like groaning. And when I got home, it gave out. It was sort of like, okay, we're done with this now. And I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And Eric said to me, why don't you take a gummy? And I was like, oh, that's a good idea. So I was, this is. I'm not a doctor, but I did the, like, ice elevation, you know, knee brace and a gummy. And it was like a perfect combo to just make me feel, like, really nice. And like, it took the. It took the edge off the old. The old joint there. And now I think things are getting better. But I did do that for a few days and I don't regret it, I'm gonna be honest. So thanks, Lumigamis.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So perfect. If you are interested, Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. Go to lumigummies.com, that's L U M I gummies.com and use the code faded mates for 30 off of your order. Again, that's L u m I gummies.com code faded mates lumigummies.com code faded mates. Thanks to Lumigummies for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Sarah MacLean]

All right, Jen? Yeah. How has your work as a developmental editor changed you as a reader?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Particularly when I'm trying to read on my own. Okay, so everybody, that's a great question. I listen, unless you are paying me, I'm not going to read like a developmental editor. People are like, can you turn it off? I sure as fuck. Like, I don't. That would be horrible. I would honestly stop editing if that. If it was ruining me as a reader. Right? But I would say, like, I put on my editor's hat. Like, I really decide, you know, like, okay, now I am reading this book in a very different way, and it just feels like, more purposeful. You know, it's like the difference between, I don't know, like, you can be in the kitchen and you can be, like, cooking the best meal of your life. And there's an intentionality to that that is different than when you're like, you know, eating, making a sandwich or whatever, Right? So it is the rare book that, like, breaks through that way. And honestly, and this is kind of a bad thing to say, but it's true. I won't name names, but often if it. If I'm reading a book and I can't stop thinking about it in terms of, like, through the developmental editing lens, it often is a book that is a failure to me, but where I can see, I can see the way the book could have worked. Right. Or that I feel like the author is sort of, you opened the book an XYZ way And then you, you didn't like follow your own path, you

[Sarah MacLean]

know what I mean?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, I think there's ways in which fiction sort of works and it's like a promise to the reader. And so like in a book, right? Like in kind of pure, a pure plot, right? Like plotting. The inciting incident introduces a conflict to characters. This is a problem that they have to solve. And the impediments are each other, their own, you know, whatever. And by the end of the book then that problem should be solved, right? Like the inciting incident says, I've introduced some work to these characters, now they have to do it. And if you introduce that conflict and then don't follow through on that, that

[Sarah MacLean]

to me is a book where I'm

[Jennifer Prokop]

like, well, what are you doing then? If I can't turn off that voice, it's like usually a book I'm disappointed in. Here's a book that could have been so good and instead it drove off into a different direction and I'm kind of like, and why. And in a romance especially. So I guess I would say I don't typically let it, you know, I don't know if that's a good answer

[Sarah MacLean]

or not, but yeah, I think that's a good answer. Okay, super niche question, but what are some good romances set in Toronto besides those written by Jackie Lau, Uzma Jaladin and Rachel Reed, all of whom are great? Actually we confirm all of those are great. But I want more, please and thank you

[Jennifer Prokop]

is one of the obvious answer there. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

Farrah Heron lives in Toronto and writes about Toronto.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Jenny Holiday, does she write about Toronto? She does. Well, she writes about sort of the upper Midwest, but her bridesmaids Behaving badly. Series One and Only is a favorite romance of mine for a long time. That whole series is set in Toronto. You know, it's funny because I was talking about Mila Fenelli and this, the second book in her New York State of Mafia series is the one where Vito, it goes down into Maggie's winery, but he is a Toronto based mobster and there is actually a really great scene where he like takes her back to Toronto and they have this incredible kind of time and she is away from her like sort of little small town. And so that's also a really good one.

[Sarah MacLean]

There are a lot of Vancouvers, but yeah, I can't think of a ton more Toronto's. Although when we stop recording I will remember all of them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

There's a pretty active Toronto romance writers group and so maybe check them out. They have a. A really good website. They have an Instagram. And that doesn't mean that they're all set in Toronto, but I think it's probably a pretty good place to start. I also love Toronto. Clean Chicago. Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

What a city.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is an interesting question for you, Sarah. Is there an itch that writing contemporary scratches that historical does not market reasons aside, you've written Storms and then the one about the Duke with the sheep. Okay. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's like the one about the Duke with the sheep. I mean, sure. Well, so I think. So those are two very different books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I actually don't think that they scratch the same itch at all. The Duke with the sheep one, which is called A Duke Worth Falling For, I wrote during the first summer of the Pandemic, and I wrote it without ever intending. Like, I knew I would probably put it up as an indie, but, like, I was never gonna sell it. It wasn't on contract. It was literally just like, what if I sat down and I wrote something that would bring me out of this crazy world that I am in? And for me. Whereas a lot of people would go, well, isn't that what historical is like? No, that's my job. So I think about historical romance all day, every day, because that's what I write. Yeah. So A Duke Worth Falling for was really about, like, what if I tried something totally different, but, like, that I would love. Storms is not a romance novel. Right. So, I mean, it is a romance in the sense that there is a happily ever after, but, like, the itch that that scratched was really being able to expand the world of characters. I'm very, very rigid when it comes to my romances. About It's. This is the story of these two particular dummies.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Falling in love.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And while I hope that you're drawn to all of the secondary and tertiary characters in my books, like, I don't want you distracted by them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

The way that I want you focused deeply on the main characters. And in Storms, I wrote a family, and it was great to write. Yeah. You know, six different characters who all had, like, real real estate on page and all had important work to be done. And the romance. Actually, there's no point of view of the hero in Storms on the romance side, because when I actually wrote that point of view, I felt that it took away from the story that I was actually trying to tell. So the itch that Stormscrash was that sort of what happens when I can tell the story of all these characters at one time? But I still much prefer writing Two dummies falling in Love.

[Jennifer Prokop]

My favorite thing to read.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yep.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Three dummies falling in love. However, Dummies. Yeah. Telling me he's falling in love. Yeah, right.

[Sarah MacLean]

I've never written three, but never say never. All right, Jen, what's your favorite dinosaur?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't think I have one.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, do you mean you're disappointing the audience here.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, I will say. Okay, I will admit. Okay, maybe I'll say T. Rex. But, like, not me, because it's a dinosaur. Kelly used to say this thing that was like. Okay, like, think in your head about how, like, a T. Rex has, like. Like, you know, those little arms. Yeah. And so she would say this thing that always really made me laugh, which is like, you know when someone is, like, learned helplessness. Right. Like, you know, it's like a man. You tell them to go find something in the fridge, and they're like, I can't find it. You know? And it's like, T. Rex arms, you know, just like. And I do this to the kids at work all the time. Right. Like, you know, I'll be like, go find this thing in your locker. And they'll be like. And I'll be like, T. Rex arms. Like, come on. Like, do it. But I. I guess I don't know if that's a real answer, but I do think the velociraptors in those drastic park movies seem very terrifying.

[Sarah MacLean]

Terrifying, but also like Queens. Sure.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

For sure. Getting done.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I. I do like those movies. Who is my favorite historical romance author of all time?

[Sarah MacLean]

Time. I mean, in person, it's me.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, obviously in books, too. I mean, you know. No, that's hard. That's hard to answer. I guess I will say this.

[Sarah MacLean]

I don't know the answer to this question.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I don't either.

[Sarah MacLean]

Is it Julie Garwood?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I guess I'd say Garwood. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

I mean, in ter.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But that's. Is that just, like, longevity? You know, I've been reading Julie Garwood for so long, and I do feel like there's something in, like, my DNA that was Julie Garwood put there. But, you know, God, I love. Obviously Clayus. I love Beverly Jenkins. There are Beverly Jenkins books that really stick with me.

[Sarah MacLean]

Jude.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, Jude Devereau. The old heads, you know. What about you?

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, I mean, my classic. My old. My old head.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Is McNod. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But I do feel like everything about us really probably boils down to. You're a McNaught person a little bit more. And I'm a Garwood person a little bit.

[Sarah MacLean]

I think that's probably true.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Like, if you are really, like, explaining the nature of your differences, you're writing

[Sarah MacLean]

an essay about us.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, but one likes Garwood, unlikes McNaught. And if, you know, you know. Right.

[Sarah MacLean]

And like, this morning I had a minor panic attack and I literally was just like, I'm just gonna get a quick hit of a Kingdom of Dreams, you know, like, just to take the edge off.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure, of course.

[Sarah MacLean]

But actually, I would say, and this is. I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear this, but my favorite romance, historical romance novelist is Lorraine Heath.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I think it's because she is modern in a lot of ways. Like, she tells a really modern story, but she is fearless about the things that she chooses to write. And I think all gas, no breaks. All gas, no breaks. I've never read Heath that I couldn't get through in six hours. Yeah. And I feel like she is somebody who I admire. I admire her as a person, I admire her as a writer. I admire her. Her attention to craft. And also, I feel like every time I read one of her books, I think, like, if only I could be as fearless as this woman is. So I think as a writer, she is a favorite.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. For me, this is a really funny question someone asked for my favorite Ohio based romance.

[Sarah MacLean]

Do you have an answer for this?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I do. Okay. When I was a young romance reader, Janet Daly did this thing which I was really fascinated, which is she was writing a book in every state. And I remember really being like, no one would ever write a book set in Ohio because is this the most boring place in God's creation? You know, then I found out Toni Morrison was from Ohio and was like, okay, well, fine. I guess if Ohio is good enough for Toni Morrison, it's good enough for me. Yeah. I mean, if you were Ohio, I

[Sarah MacLean]

would put Toni Morrison on every billboard.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right. No, Ohio.

[Sarah MacLean]

Birthplace of Marty Morrison.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Okay. I'm talking about Ohio books now. And Beloved then is right. When she has crossed the Ohio river, she's crossed from Kentucky to Ohio. And, you know, I was always fascinated with the idea that. And I mean, the book is as well. Right. Like, there's such a thin line between memory and present in Beloved, and there's such a thin line between, like, being free and being not in Beloved. And it's, you know, that river that defines those places. But so for me, though, the Janet D. Okay, that was like a weird digression, but it's Ohio.

[Sarah MacLean]

I.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sorry, I have to talk about Toni Morrison. The Ohio book for Janet Daly was very disappointing to me. I don't remember what it was.

[Sarah MacLean]

Well, so what it's worth. Janet Daly is very disappointing. We do not really recommend her. Sure. But she.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The thing.

[Sarah MacLean]

Plagiarism is bad.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right. Plagiarism is bad.

[Sarah MacLean]

Okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And this is like, I think says something about me too, which is I read the book and realized that this book was set in Ohio, like, in name only. It was a businessman in Cleveland or whatever. And so it just gave a nod. She didn't care. But she didn't care about Ohio. It wasn't really about Ohio.

[Sarah MacLean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So the first romance, though, that I ever read that was really set in Ohio was Jenny Cruze. It was welcome to Temptation. It opens with these two sisters who are sort of con artists. And they're driving into this, like, really small Ohio town, kind of run by this mayor who is holding off, like, a bunch of bigots who have cheaped out and they were too cheap to buy the right kind of paint for the water tower. And so now it looks like a huge giant cock in the middle of town. And I found myself really feeling like this is a woman who understands Ohio and Ohioans, right. And, you know, bet me and all of, like, most of her books were set in Ohio. But I remember welcome to Temptation feeling like I recognize these people. Like, I recognize these characters in some very specific and meaningful way as being the kind of people, not like the main characters, but like the cast of characters, you know, as being like the kind of people that I knew that were, like, my mom's friends and. And whatever. So I. I still would say that, like, welcome to Temptation probably is. Is. Oh, and bet me. But, like, welcome to Temptation is like, the answer of my heart because it was the first time I read a book and really thought, like, this lady really knows Ohio. Emily Henry famously lives in Cincinnati. Um, you know, you know, there are obviously other Ohioans writing romance, but like Johnny Cruze.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. But I don't think Emily is thinking about Ohio. I think there is a certain kind of writer. And I'm not putting judgment on this, like, value judgment on it, but I think there's a certain kind of writer who cares a lot about setting. Yes, I think I care a lot about setting. And I can recognize it in a lot of writers. I do think there. There's a difference between, like, for example, Emily and Beach read, like that lake, that house. I can see it all in my head, right? And like, she clearly cares about setting there. But then I think there are people who, like, start with the setting and say, like, what is this place? What does it look like? How does it work? What is its magic?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah MacLean]

And I mean that even outside of fantasy, like, what is this place's magic? And I think that me, or welcome to Temptation, what you're describing is. Yeah, that is the magic of Ohio.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, what is the magic of Rhode Island? Is a question that, like, I try to answer in these contemporaries that are set there.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Well. And I think, like. Like when I read Indigo for the first time.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. What is the. Right. Like, of Hester's World. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of Michigan. I really also key into setting a lot. I've lived in six different states, and I think that I really. People who move around pay attention to the differences between places and the way you feel there.

[Sarah MacLean]

And also because it feels like in each place, you have to learn how to exist in that world. You know, what are the ways? What are the rules of this universe?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think the thing, too, for me is, like, some of the places I've lived, I've been really happy, and some of the places I've lived, I've been really miserable. And the idea that place doesn't matter is not something I would. Place does matter. Place matters deeply. I really believe that, like, where you. You are who you are because of where you are in a lot of ways. And you can, like, fight a place. Right. You can make room for yourself any place. And there are cool people everywhere. Right. There's no reason to think that, like, you know, I. As a child, I thought, only cool people only live in New York. No one ever cool lives in Ohio. Like, I now know that's bullshit. There are cool people everywhere, but you cannot be happy everywhere. I think that's why I'm fascinated by, like, the idea, like, you know, you go to a small town or you

[Sarah MacLean]

come back or you leave.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, these should be hugely transformative life events. Because they are. Right. Because they are. Any last one we want to do before we go.

[Sarah MacLean]

Sex lessons. I love a sex lessons book. Me too. And I need more recommendations. Or maybe just a whole episode. Have we not done an episode on sex lessons? We have it. It's on our list because I love it so much.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, I'm going to answer this, and then maybe you have some off the top of your head. I feel like one of the things I've learned about myself all these years into the podcast is there are some books where you're like, okay, this is a time travel book. I'm going to know that in the blurb. But Sex Lessons is not often something that is like, sort of like part of the inciting incident necessarily of the book. Like, it's not going to be on the back cover copy. And so sometimes I forget that a book has that. Right. Unless it's like, a really big part of it. And so what I need to do is sort of have like, a list of things I'm sort of looking for.

[Sarah MacLean]

I've started this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. And then you're like, oh, this book has sex lessons.

[Sarah MacLean]

I'm going to put this on this list.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then when we finally do the episode, which we will, because we keep saying we should, and you love it, you know, then I'll have books like that. I won't have to go hunting for those books. I will already have been sort of making that list.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yep.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

So, okay. My favorite, like, pinnacle of pinnacle Sex Lessons book is a category called the Pleasure principle by Jane O'Reilly. It's London set. It's an erotic novella. And the heroine is like, it's such a classic sometimes. Okay. I'm a real basic bitch. And part of the reason why I know I am a basic bitch is because I don't need it to be complicated. Like, sometimes the best romances are the ones where, like, it's just a clear, straight shot of concept. Right. So this is a straight up. A heroine has a very sexy boss who throws sex parties at his house. Because this is what hot bosses do in London.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

And she is broken up with on, like, page one by her boyfriend, who is like, you're not good in bed. And so she decides she is going to go to one of her boss's hot sex parties and just like, check it out.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

Like, and she'll go, and he won't even notice she's there because he doesn't care about her. He's never looked at her twice. Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

And then of course, she gets there and he's like, what the fuck are you doing here? And she tells him. And then he's like, I'm gonna teach you everything. And of course, she's great in bed. The boyfriend was the problem. And it's great and so fun. And that's the Pleasure principle by Jane O'Reilly. Also, like, if you want something a little more cerebral, Helen Hoang's the Kiss Quotient is also Sex Lessons. We recently. We talked about that on the podcast recently. For some reason. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't remember why, but we Did.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah. And that's like a bigger book. It has a more complicated setup, but it's also delicious. She hires. The heroine is on the autism spectrum and is, like, in a place where she hires an escort to be her, like, fake boyfriend and also at the same time teach her sex lessons. And he has this sort of very complicated. This is another one for the person who asked earlier about, like, a book that grapples with sadness. Like he has a kind of family issue, but, like, these two are beau. It's a beautiful romance. It really. I mean, there is a reason why people talk about it like a modern classic.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, agree.

[Sarah MacLean]

And those are my two sort of right off the head. Off the head, sure. But I mean, I wrote One Good Earl. One Good Earl Deserves a Lover is a sex lessons book. I mean, I've probably written more than one, honestly, because I love them so much.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I, like I said this. This is a thing I love when I see it, but it doesn't, like, stick with me as being, like, a primary because I feel like sex lessons is often. Like I said, it's not like a.

[Sarah MacLean]

It.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The plot doesn't turn on it when. I like it best when it's the answer to something. Right. I don't know how to. How to say that. Right. You know what I mean? Like, a character has decided they have a problem and then. Or problem has, like, you know, risen up, like. Right. Like my boyfriend treats me this way or whatever. And I think often in my brain that turns into like. Well, this is a person who's struggling with, you know, like, they're feeling good about themselves or whatever. And that plays out so many ways, not just because of how you are in bed with somebody. So.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, I just like it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, of course.

[Sarah MacLean]

Period. It's fun and we should do it. There's also another request for a possible episode in this list, and I love it so much that we will definitely do it, but I'm not even going to talk about it because we'll just tee it up for another future episode, which we're always looking for.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah MacLean]

Anyway, I think we did the job. I did.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We did the job.

[Sarah MacLean]

Everyone. We love talking to you. We wish that we spent more time with you, but if you ever have questions for us, you can always ask them on Face. No, we're not on Facebook. We really aren't. But I don't know why I said that. You could ask. You can always ask them on Instagram or Threads or Blue Sky. I'm gonna on Instagram. And threads. We are faded mates Pod and on blue sky, we're faded mates. You can also join our [e-mail] faded mates. And that gives you access to the Discord, where there is an Ask Jen and Sarah channel. Channel. There's also an Ask Eric channel in there and.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Or Oregon Classics coming your way.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, I mean, who knows what you'll get in that channel, but. So you can always head over there and do that or shoot us, you

[Jennifer Prokop]

know, I don't know.

[Sarah MacLean]

Messages, Smoke signals, Semaphore. Semaphore.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't even know what that means.

[Sarah MacLean]

It's the flag one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, sure.

[Sarah MacLean]

Did you ever watch Monty Python as a kid?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Apparently not enough.

[Sarah MacLean]

Yeah, there was like, it's a whole joke on Monty Python. Semaphore. Anyway, I'm Sarah McLean. I am am here quite literally with my friend Jen Prokop, and we are fated mates. Like I said, you can find us wherever you get your. Your podcast every Wednesday and all the books that we talked about today and anything else that we sort of generally talked about that has links or more information will be available to you on our [e-mail] and you can just click on episodes and you'll find.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Find this.

[Sarah MacLean]

This episode, a list of all the books and other links in show notes, and that's it. Happy April. Happy April, everyone. I hope you're off, you know, getting a quick hit of Judith McNaught, if that is what will give you joy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And if it's raining flowers coming soon.

[Sarah MacLean]

Oh, yeah, May flower.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sa.