S08.32: Paris Romance with Kate Clayborn

Summary

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Fated Mates S08.32: Paris Romance with Kate Clayborn

April 29, 2026

Episode Overview

Spring is in the air, and the Fated Mates team—romance author Sarah MacLean, romance critic Jennifer Prokop, and special guest author Kate Clayborn—meet to revel in the allure of Paris as a setting for romance. Centered around Kate Clayborn's new novel, The Paris Match, the episode explores Parisian mystique, the power of place in romance, literary and pop culture nods, feminist undertones, and a whirlwind of Paris-set and inspired romance recs. It's a lively blend of craft talk, literary history, cheeky camaraderie, and evocative reflections on art, place, memory, and love.

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Main Topics and Discussion Points

1. Kate Clayborn’s Return & Punctuation in Romance Writing

• [00:00–04:00] The trio reminisce about Kate’s legendary "Sexclamation Points" episode, a deep and humorous dive into punctuation (especially exclamation points and interrobangs) in romance writing.
• Quote — Jennifer: “No one loves an exclamation point like a 13-year-old girl. No one.” [05:03]
• They discuss editorial taboos about interrobangs—a “Random House policy” that Sarah hilariously circumvented for her latest book.
• Feminist spin: Is the exclamation point a subversive, even feminist, punctuation? (Tongue-in-cheek.)

2. Thematic Deep-Dive: Amicable Divorce as a Patriarchal Pressure

• [08:33] Kate explains how her fascination with the phrase "amicable divorce"—and the social expectation for women to be nice during personal upheaval—inspired The Paris Match.
• Quote — Kate: “I suppose I’ve started to think of this phrase as a tool of the patriarchy… a new standard women have to meet.” [09:28]
• The team discuss how these societal pressures translate into romance narratives, and how gender norms and expectations shape relationships and interiority in the genre.

3. Paris as Myth, Reality, and Character

• [11:25–16:00] They explore the enduring image of Paris in romantic mythology versus the lived, layered, often gritty reality of the city.
• Quote — Sarah: “It feels like a city that is made for a romance novel in some way in our heads. Is that fair?” [11:25]
• Notable story: Gwyneth Paltrow’s father taking her to Paris so her “first Paris” wouldn’t be colored by heartbreak.
• Kate reflects on how returning to Paris revealed new layers of the city, and how our personal transformation is tied to our evolving relationship with places.

4. Crafting Authentic Setting: “No Green Screen”

• [19:30–22:30] Kate shares her commitment to making setting an immersive, sensory-rich experience—a living part of the story, not just backdrops. She takes detailed notes of tangible details (smells, textures, sounds) during her travels.
• Quote — Kate: “The set is not a green screen. I try to think about all my senses all the time.” [21:13]
• The symbolism of choosing less-touristy sites (e.g., Rodin Museum over the Louvre, skipping the Eiffel Tower) to echo the characters’ emotional journeys.

5. Place as Portal: Love, Pain, and Empathy for Setting

• [24:08–26:18] Discussion on how Paris embodies both beauty and painful memories for Layla (the heroine), while for Griffin (the hero), it’s literally a step out of his comfort zone.
• Place enables characters to collaboratively “remake” the city, reflecting how transformative travel (and love) can be.
• Quote — Jennifer: “Watching them remake Paris together... it’s one of the few books I’ve ever read where I thought, this makes me want to go to a place, really, truly.” [24:43]
• Kate: “The best romance has such a strong core of empathy. I like the idea of extending empathy to place.” [25:38]

6. Parisian Stereotypes & Personal Experiences

• [27:40–30:11] The hosts compare “Parisian unfriendliness” narratives and affirm the universal urban experience—Paris is as warm/aloof as any big city.
• Kate embraces her role as a tourist, “leaning into being the Midwesterner in Paris.” [29:59]

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Book Recommendations & Paris in Romance

Curated Recs Segment (with timestamps for major recs):

Curio and the Vignettes by Cara McKenna

• [45:14–49:23]
• An American woman in Paris hires an agoraphobic Parisian escort for her sexual awakening. Deeply explores sex work, gender norms, and unconventional romance.
• Kate: “It’s sort of graduate-level romance reading... really challenges your ideas about sex and love.” [46:26–48:45]

Puppets by Jenna Ryan

• [50:20–58:01]
• A fever-dream Harlequin Intrigue (1992): puppet theater, murders, Parisian catacombs, a Phantom of the Opera homage, and magical puppets. Hilarious recap and wild plot summary by Jennifer.
• Jen: “Basically one of the puppets has come alive and is... the bad, evil puppet master.” [56:58]

French Kissing Series by Harper Bliss

• [61:18–67:56]
• Five-book, ensemble-cast, sapphic romance series set in Paris, with a PR firm, politicians, hospitals, and high-level Parisian intrigue.
• Sarah: “It’s really soapy... all these lesbians in Paris... the sex is top, top tier.” [64:47–65:00]

The Chocolate Kiss by Laura Florand

• [68:04–72:43]
• Set in Paris, featuring an American heroine and French pastry chef hero; deep immersion in French culture, deliberate pacing, and lush prose.
• Kate: “You can feel the way she loves it... her prose is really beautiful.” [69:33]

Part-Time Lover by Lauren Blakely

• [72:43–77:16]
• Meet-cute on a boat in Copenhagen, missed connections, marriage-of-convenience for inheritance reasons, and a passionate Parisian affair.
• Jen: “What are you going to do, let your evil sister-in-law take off with the company?” [77:09]

Love Me in the Dark by Mia Asher

• [77:24–82:50]
• A married woman’s Parisian sojourn turns transformative when she meets a magnetic French artist; emotional, fraught, and passionate.
• Sarah: “It is a great book. It is really, really a fun read. I mean, it's very emotional but very fun read...” [81:55]

Other Notable Mentions

• Grape Juice by Eliza Dumay — romance about American in the French wine country; “luscious” writing. [82:55]
• A Caribbean Heiress in Paris by Adriana Herrera [84:28]
• We'll Always Have Paris by Adriana Anders [84:52]
• Parisian-set historicals, e.g. Lord of Scoundrels, The Madness of Lord Ian Mackenzie, Wallflower series [85:11–88:04]
• Georgette Heyer’s Regency novels with French émigré characters [88:34]

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Literary Allusions & Subtext

• Homages to classic Parisian romances (e.g., Hunchback of Notre Dame, Beauty and the Beast, Kresley Cole’s Immortals After Dark series).
• The symbolism of Paris as not just a setting, but a crucible for transformation, reinvention, and sometimes escape or healing for characters.
• Occasional, tongue-in-cheek references to literary tradition, from Edna St. Vincent Millay poems about haunted places to the mystique of French cigarette smoking in romance.

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Notable Quotes

• Kate (on “amicable divorce”):
  “This phrase becomes a pressure point... you have to go through something traumatic and you have to be nice about it. And I don’t think it’s men who are socialized to be ‘amicable’...” [09:53]
• Sarah (on setting):
  “I try to think about all my senses all the time... the set is not a green screen.” [21:13]
• Jennifer (on reading Curio):
  “That echo, right? The place is there, but not there, somehow.” [49:23]
• Sarah (on Parisian myth):
  “There is a space for you in Paris, wherever, whoever you are.” [27:41]

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Memorable Moments

• A wild, laugh-filled foray into Puppets, a Harlequin Intrigue featuring French puppet theater, murder, and possibly magic—“I must have this,” Jen says, ordering the book mid-segment. [52:00]
• “The best romance has a strong core of empathy... I like the idea of extending empathy to place.” — Kate [25:38]
• Kate drops impromptu knowledge on the history of puppet theater in Renaissance Paris. [57:51–58:22]
• “French characters can get away with smoking in romance.” — Sarah [89:47]

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Paris in Historical Romance (Quick Observations)

• Paris as a site of freedom, transformation, or historical trauma in English historical novels.
• French modistes and exiled aristocrats as fixtures of the English Regency.
• The guillotine, for those who want it on-page, is apparently available in J. Winifred Butterworth’s A Bloomy Head. [90:17]

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Where to Find the Books

• Full rec list and links are available at fatedmates.net in the show notes for this episode.
• The Paris Match by Kate Clayborn is out now in print, ebook, and audio.

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Final Thoughts

The episode underscores the enduring appeal of Paris as more than just backdrop—it’s a living, breathing character, the site of personal revelation, reimagination, and, sometimes, release. Through insightful craft talk, recs spanning the spectrum of romance fiction, and trademark Fated Mates humor, listeners are treated to a rich literary journey through Paris—no passport required.

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Listen on Wednesdays wherever you get podcasts, or visit fatedmates.net for more.

Transcript

[Sarah McLean]

Well, it's springtime, and so it feels like it's time to talk about Paris. Also, because our friend is here. Everyone, welcome. Kate Claiborne. My favorite place to be. People are always like. People are always like, how do you get to be a guest on Fated Mates? We're like. Well, there are like four. They're in rotation. And also that's.

[Kate Claiborne]

I came in at the ground floor, folks.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Exactly.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly. I was trying to remember this morning which book you came for sexclamation points.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, it was before that. Remember when you did the Brother's best friend or whatever?

[Kate Claiborne]

Best friend.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, you didn't come for an ID book.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No.

[Kate Claiborne]

And then I came for exclamation points, which is legendary. Legendary episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm honestly surprised that this book was not the Paris Match exclamation point. I mean, what a missed opportunity that was.

[Sarah McLean]

Everybody. Sex clamation points is a very particular kind of sex writing where it's so good that it ends up in all caps with exclamation points.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. So, yeah, we really.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We really did.

[Kate Claiborne]

That was a deep grammatical dive in that episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I don't think people appreciate academic work going on.

[Kate Claiborne]

I don't think people appreciate the work we did.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Everybody can go back and listen to it.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. Wait, what was it that it was. It was the player.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Our favorite. We still have a group chat, everyone. It's the only group chat that we. That I have that hasn't been renamed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I think I tried to rename it once and Kate was like, it felt wrong.

[Sarah McLean]

I can't. And now my.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's been that way now for 8 years or whatever.

[Sarah McLean]

My 12 year old is always like, what. What does it mean? Like, someday you'll understand.

[Kate Claiborne]

You're not ready for the deep lore.

[Sarah McLean]

Anyway. Welcome, everyone, to Faded mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and

[Sarah McLean]

editor, and we are here with our friend Kate Claiborne, author of many amazing books, but most recently the Paris Match. No exclamation point.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No exclamation point.

[Sarah McLean]

Exclamation point implied.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah, exclamation point. In my heart.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would actually venture to guess that in all of your. However many books, you have probably never included an exclamation point.

[Kate Claiborne]

I think I have.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Ever.

[Sarah McLean]

In your whole writing?

[Kate Claiborne]

No, I think I have, but very rarely and normally to express like, shock or frustrated. I've never used it in a sex scene.

[Sarah McLean]

There's always time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, there's next. Next book, next Time.

[Sarah McLean]

I. But there's sort of a rule about exclamation points that, like, you don't overuse them.

[Kate Claiborne]

You shouldn't over.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, I mean, at least in some. Some circles.

[Kate Claiborne]

But, you know, the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The.

[Kate Claiborne]

This exclamation points episode was. It was almost like. It was so. So it was almost subversive. The exclamation point. It was sort of like these exclamation points. They. I don't know.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

They might be a feminist statement. It's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Who knows?

[Sarah McLean]

It's hard to say.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

But also more work to be done.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like the anti. Who's Cormac McCarthy, if you will.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes. Cormac McCarthy would never put an exclamation point in his sex scene.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Cormac McCarthy doesn't believe in writing women. Cormac McCarthy doesn't believe In a lot of stuff.

[Kate Claiborne]

So, I mean, I'm not a exclamatory person generally. So maybe that's the. Maybe. Maybe, like next year, my word of the year will be, like, exclamation. And I'll just try to try to live my life that way.

[Sarah McLean]

Out loud.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

When I turned in. When I got copy edits or I think copy edits on these summer storms. There is a moment in these summer storms where I use an interrobang, which is for anybody not listening or not. Well, no, for anybody listening who doesn't know is when you. When you put a question mark and an exclamation point next to each other.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And I don't think I've ever used it in Tara Bang before. But it was, I don't know, for some reason relevant. And I felt it is important in this moment to use it in Tarobang. The storms are sort of that kind of family. And so. And I got a note from the copy editor that said it is Random House does not. It is like, policy at Random House that we don't use in Tarabangs.

[Kate Claiborne]

Okay.

[Sarah McLean]

And I was like, wait, what? I've never met a like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But it's required.

[Sarah McLean]

I never met a punctuation policy. This is my 21st book now, I

[Kate Claiborne]

think a good use of the interrobang in romance history. I'm pretty sure an indigo.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, I bet it.

[Kate Claiborne]

Beverly Jenkins uses in terabang often when, like, Hester is, like, responding to something like, she'll be like, Galen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it's like a.

[Sarah McLean]

There.

[Jennifer Prokop]

See?

[Kate Claiborne]

I really.

[Sarah McLean]

So there's a curious punctuation. And I did. I had to text my editor and I was like, is this for real? And she was like, well, I've never heard of this policy. And I was like, can I stat the interrobang? And she was like, yeah, of course you can. So there is an in bang and storms. And everybody please know that I did intend it more than once. Like, I. Yeah, yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You're like, I mean it. I mean I should really.

[Sarah McLean]

I really like looked at the text and felt it was there.

[Kate Claiborne]

But I do think, I mean, in terabang is probably the. It is probably the punctuation mark of the current time we're living in. Yeah, it's sort of every day.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's the.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah, really. It really captures something that's true.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, as a middle school teacher, I have a very, very fraught relationship with exclamation points because. Oh, I bet. Obviously, like no one loves. Listen to me when I tell you this. There's nothing I've ever said as true as what I'm about to say, which is no one loves an exclamation point like a 13 year old girl. No one.

[Kate Claiborne]

Well, that's an exclamatory time in life,

[Sarah McLean]

writing and in life, all the correct.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And the thing I like, you know, I used to sort of say all the time was kind of like the, you know, your punctuation cannot actually do the work of writing for you. You know what I mean? Like the words. The words are what matters. Like you, you can't. 17 isolation points is not going to actually make this a better.

[Sarah McLean]

You know, is that when they then move into adverbs.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That is, that's when they move into adverbs.

[Sarah McLean]

When you're like, no more in exclamation points. So adverbs just to explode.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And you know what? Listen, I find myself when I'm writing emails to people. I am often like, okay, I need to take half these exclamation points out. Like, great. Excited to work with you. You'll get this back for me in a month. You know what I mean? And then I'm like, wait, what am I? What?

[Sarah McLean]

Well, this is why I feel like we do actually need immediate. A middle. Yeah, A middle punctuation. Like between the period which feels sometimes like two terse.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And the exclamation point which is just over the top. Like, I'm not, I'm not exclaiming that I'm happy to work with you, but

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm not like on like happy to work with you.

[Kate Claiborne]

I am like j. I don't mean it sarcastically.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know who would never use an exclamation point? Griffin Testa.

[Kate Claiborne]

Oh, I'll tell you what. No, no, he wouldn't.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, they probably, like, burn off the page when he looks at them.

[Sarah McLean]

Does he have access to the emoji keyboard? Does he even know emojis are there?

[Kate Claiborne]

Boy, when I really think about it, I've never written a hero that seems like an emoji type. I don't really have to think about that in therapy or something. But, yes, Griffin Testa, the hero of the Paris Match, likely does not use the emoji keyboard, nor does he exclaim, no, I think that is just. It's just not the. That is not the move for Griffin.

[Sarah McLean]

No.

[Kate Claiborne]

And he has other ones, and we

[Sarah McLean]

love him for it. So let's talk about Griffin's book, the Paris Match, which is out right now. Everybody go get it. You can go get it. Tell us, Kate, a little bit about how the Paris Match came to be.

[Kate Claiborne]

Well, the pairs match, I think, came to be, like, a lot of my books do, where I was, like, thinking about sort of something thematically or something I was interested in, in the culture. And that kind of collided with, like, a character idea that I had and a setting that I had in mind. But I was really. I'd been kind of interested for several years in the phrase amicable divorce, which is, like, I think, a really nice idea in theory. It's like, a really beautiful idea when you hear about, like, couples who have been married and they split and they are, like. And we stayed friends, and, like, we still get together at holidays. And I think that, like, sounds so nice, but I just feel like I had been hearing the term more and more and more. And I suppose I'm at the point where I've, like, started to think of this phrase as, like, a tool of the patriarchy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, this happened.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Be agreeable about it.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes. I mean, I think if it. When it becomes like, a new standard that you have to meet.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Kate Claiborne]

That, like, you have to go through something traumatic and you have to be nice about it. And really, like, as I've kind of said, I think that there's one group in our society that is, like, more socialized to be truly amicable. And I don't think it's men. So I just think this phrase amicable divorce becomes this, like, pressure point. Right. Like, this is now the way you have to do divorce.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Our mother's generation would never.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

These women are like, I'm still fucking faint. I'm still angry.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. So that. That is kind of, like, the impetus for the book. I mean, that Might seem like a strange thing to be thinking about for a romance novel. But like, I think in my books, I'm always sort of interested in those kinds of, like, gender norms or expectations and how they play into, like, the way we move in the world and the way we love. And so that is where the initial idea came from. And I also have always wanted to write about Paris. It's like a place I think we have a really interesting relationship to generally. But I didn't quite know how I would do it. And then when I was thinking about this thing related to divorce, I thought, this is it. This is the idea.

[Sarah McLean]

So let's talk about Paris. I mean, it feels like a city that is made for a romance novel in some way in our heads. Is that fair?

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of why.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, I think it's made for like, romance. I think, like, the, like the idea of just like, you know, walking down, you know, holding hands next to the sun and like the street.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, you know what I mean?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think, like, there's a. And I don't think it's just romance novels. Don't you think that's just like far broader?

[Sarah McLean]

Like, that's the mythology.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, like a story I was thinking about. And I don't remember if it was like an actual like, interview with Gwyneth Paltrow or something I read. Like, I don't remember, like, if it was like a video or whatever. I mean, is her saying when she was like a teenager, her father took her to Paris and said to her, this way, this way. You will always have seen Paris for the first time with a man who will never stop loving you. You know what I mean? Like, you're like, it won't be a man who will break your heart later and then will ruin Paris for you. No one will ever be able to ruin Paris for you that way. And I always thought about that as being like. I thought about that a lot.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, with.

[Jennifer Prokop]

With this book, right? Like, not necessarily like, but Laila going back to the place where she and Jamie had, you know, themselves had this experience of Paris. And then like, now Jamie's sister is

[Sarah McLean]

getting married there, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And so like the fan, all those things. So I did think about that story a lot. This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Claire Wilder, author of Nailed.

[Sarah McLean]

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[Jennifer Prokop]

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[Kate Claiborne]

I don't know about you guys, but like when I was younger, I think, and I think this was like informed by the fact that I did not have the means or the opportunity to travel when I was younger. So like I would see pictures of Paris or I would see it on TV or in movies. And so the idea I had of it was that very romantic idea, right, that I would be like in a cafe and like there'd be like music playing and the light would be like pink and gorgeous, right? Like that is how it lived in my head. And I just think like one of the most fascinating things about travel generally is like when you go to a place and it either lives up to what you've seen in your head or it's better or it's different or whatever. And I was like sort of fascinated by that. I think like the first time I went to Paris I was really starry eyed about it. And the when I went back it was like I could see the city differently. I just, it was like easier for me to experience it differently. And I like, I love that about the human experience I love how we. How we change in relation to places. I think that's very fascinating. And it is just, like, it's a beautiful place. Like, it is a beautiful place.

[Sarah McLean]

Paris really shows.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. But it's also, like, complicated, and it's. It can be, like, gritty and interesting and. Yeah, I love it there. It was, like. It was a really amazing place to write about, even though I was constantly afraid I was getting it wrong.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, this balance that Layla has of, like, showing Griff how. What. What Paris.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, she.

[Sarah McLean]

And she shows Griff Paris in a lot of ways, but she's also relearning it, like you talked about. And that is. And I think cities, especially cities that we don't entirely know or that, like you said, we sort of know in our heads but don't know with our feet, can really be revelatory for us as people. Like, they show us the things that we do care about in a lot of ways. Like the. And I think what's interesting is, you know, Jen's in Chicago, I'm in New York. You have a, like, Parisian. You love Paris. And I wonder, like, what. What have you learned from Paris? What has Paris taught you about writing? About love? About you?

[Kate Claiborne]

Um, you know, I think, like, one of the things I write about in the book is. I mean, I tried to do it with a somewhat light touch, but, like, you know, there's a lot of art in Paris, like, not just in the museums, which are, of course, incredible, but Paris is artistic in terms of, like, the clothing. Right. Like, obviously, there's, like, you know, beautiful designers there, but, like, people on the street in Paris, their clothing is beautiful in some way. You know, the. If you walk into, like, a patisserie, like, there's beauty in those glass cases. Like, everything in Paris to me is. Feels like art. And I guess the times I've been there have reminded me, like, how personal our relationship to art and beauty is. And I. I tried to write a little bit about that in the book that, like, when Griff and Layla encounter pieces of art or encounter sort of, like, moments of beauty in this place, that it makes them think about their own experiences, think about the experiences of people around them. It, like, alters their humanity. And for me, like, that is something Paris has meant to me. I think it is, like, a place that altered my humanity.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I really. I was rereading the scene this morning where they go to the Rodin Museum, and, you know, like, the day before in the book, like, they go to Versailles. I mean, so there is, like, There also is.

[Kate Claiborne]

And.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But then there's also these scenes where they're just, like. Just literally, like, walking down streets. Right. Her favorite kind of. You know, I like the street, and I like. You know, there's one day where they just take, like, this epic, like, walk through Paris. So one of the things. I've never been to Paris, but I did really feel, like, your love for Paris in this place. And also that you. It didn't feel like. I mean, okay, so sometimes you read a book that's set in a place, but you can tell that that's just, like, sort of in name only. And so, like, how did you go about.

[Sarah McLean]

Why.

[Jennifer Prokop]

How did you go about capturing the setting in such a different way? Like, such a profound way? And then, like, why, you know, like, would it have. When you choose the Rodin Museum, for example, over the Louvre. Right. Is obviously the gates of hell are there, which is, like, this one specific piece of art, that it becomes meaningful. But why, like, were you trying to essentially say to the reader, like, there's more to this place, or just show, like, how deep Laila's, like, love and devotion to this place really was?

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah, I think there's definitely a way in which I was trying to. I mean, like, you know, they don't go to the Eiffel Tower, for example. Right, right. And, you know, like, that's intentional, I think, throughout the book. And, I mean, I've tried. I try to do this with my other books, and, like, I hope I'm successful. It was obviously, like, very important with a book. Like, love lettering, too. Like, something I try to think about all the time when I'm writing is, like, the set is not a green screen. Which, like. I mean, like, green screen technology is, like, really amazing now. So, like, a lot of times you can watch a show and there's, like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. You know, like, famously, in Heated Rivalry, there's a scene when they're on, like, on top of a building looking over Las Vegas, and it's not. They're standing in front of a screen. Right.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes. And, I mean, that technology now is so amazing.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Kate Claiborne]

But I feel like once you. Once you know about that or you're attuned to it, the setting looks a specific way to you. Right. And so, like, as, like, as I'm trying to make a book that is about setting as, like, a character sort of part of the love story, I'm, like, trying to think a lot about, like, all of my senses all the time. So, like, the most recent time I went to Paris like, my notes are just, like, full of how it felt to, like, touch something or what this street smelled like or whatever. And, like, most of it is not in the book, but that's like, I have to stay engaged that way, or else I feel like what happens is, like, that green screen effect. Like, oh, it's just like the Eiffel

[Jennifer Prokop]

Towers in the back or whatever. But this could have been anywhere, right?

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

And I mean, I will say there's real pleasure in, like. And I have found great pleasure in, like, books where Paris is, like, the Eiffelden. Of course.

[Sarah McLean]

Of course.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. Yeah. But because I was writing a character who was coming back to Paris with this, like, very. She was. You know, like, her memories of Paris from her honeymoon are so difficult for her. Like, I think I had to do something different.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because what this reminds. We were talking on the Discord, the fade of Maze Discord, about, like, setting, right? And someone had said, like, you should do a whole episode about setting. And I was like, we're gonna probably be doing it in this episode. And then someone brought up Project Hail Mary, which I think all three of us have seen as be.

[Kate Claiborne]

I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, well, I'm not gonna give it away, but they had sort of said, like, you know, something really interesting about, like, the setting of it. And I was like, you know what's interesting about Project Hail Mary, Right? Like, you know, the plot, right? They're up in space trying to save. You know, they're two different. Trying to save the world, trying to save their worlds. Right. And I was like, the thing that's really interesting is, like, the setting is like, an echo because it's what they're trying to save that is the setting that becomes so meaningful. But then, like, the echo of that, like, the footprint of it is in, like, the way their ships are and the way they interact with each other.

[Sarah McLean]

And.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it's really interesting because it's a really good example of how, like, you can. You know, like, there's. You know, you take the girl out of New York, but you can't, you know what I mean? Take New York out of the.

[Sarah McLean]

And that is kind of how I

[Jennifer Prokop]

think for Laila, Paris is this really beautiful memory and also this really painful one.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think that a lot of us do have a relationship to certain places that is weighed by both, like, love and pain.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. And I think that part is really interesting. And then you get Griffin who basically is more or less like a housebound. Right. Like, you know, and so you have this really interesting kind of. You're putting two people in a place where one person just has never been there and never wants to go anywhere. Right. Because of his literal physical pain. You know that like something you uncover through the book. And then for Laila, you have. This is a place that I had that is full of painful memories.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think, like, watching them remake Paris together, right. As they fall in love is really, like. I thought it's. I'm not a person who has ever traveled. Right. But it's like one of the few books I've ever read where I was like, this makes me want to go to a place really, like, truly, like, I'm just. I don't think I have that really in me. And like, you, I think it was because I didn't have money when I was younger and, you know, like, various other reasons now. And I just really was like, this makes me really understand, I don't know, something about, like, being in a place with people you love and. And seeing. Making a world together in a place. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Which is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That means a lot. I mean, which is what romance is. I think. You're making a world together with your new lover. Right?

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. I mean, romance is so much like. You know, for me, like, the best romance is like. Has such a, like, strong core of, like, empathy. But I like. I like the idea of extending empathy to place. Like. I know, I know, like, place is not alive. Right. But, like, to.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't necessarily. Yeah. I mean, it is alive.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, in the hand. Listen, it's alive for those of anybody who's ever walked into a place and, like, felt the weight of it or like Jen said, like, there are places, you know, there's. That. There's this. There's a great Edna St. Vincent Millay poem, right? Where she says. Like. She says, there are a hundred places where I fear to go. So with your. Your memory, they brim. But then when entering a quiet place where I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna recite it, but she says, you know, when you enter place and there we were not here together. Yeah, I am. You know, there is no memory of him is the first thought that she has.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

So I do think, like, places, people.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, you know, Griff, like, to your point, Jen, like, he. He has so intentionally not gone to any places in, like, a decade. Right. Like, he. And so like, writing a moment where Griff is, like, looking at Notre Dame, right. And, like, he's thinking about fire. He's thinking about, like, smoke damage. He's, you know, like, that place is so connected to his humanity.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Kate Claiborne]

I think it's, like, it's beautiful to have an experience like that. That's kind of part of what I mean about, like, the. Paris is about art to me. And, like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

It's also a city that, you know,

[Jennifer Prokop]

for all of its.

[Sarah McLean]

For all the ways that people talk about Parisians, it's also a city that does sort of deeply. Like, many big cities, like, it really accepts all kinds, you know, I mean, there is a. There is a space for you in Paris, wherever, whoever you are.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

And I think now, no, I have to say, no one has ever been unfriendly to me in Paris. Like, I know people have, like, great

[Sarah McLean]

stories, love to talk about Parisians, but, like, not.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

Or it could be. And I'll be really honest here, it could be that, like, maybe a Parisian person has been unfriendly to me, but I am so Midwestern that I.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You don't even know.

[Kate Claiborne]

It's like. Yeah, I was.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I was probably just having a rough

[Kate Claiborne]

day, trying to help, you know?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't feel like I've been to Paris several times, and I don't feel like Parisians are ever any. I think they're just, like, New Yorkers. Like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. They're just busy living their own life.

[Sarah McLean]

What do you, like, is there something you need right now?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, have we cut the.

[Kate Claiborne]

But as with, when I come to New York and I'm, like, walking down the street saying hi to people.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, somebody. I read it.

[Kate Claiborne]

It's such a nice day, isn't it?

[Sarah McLean]

I read an article yesterday. Or, like, it was maybe on threads, but somebody was like, I was eight and a half months pregnant. Pregnant in New York City. And I fell on the sidewalk, like, and it was a bad fall. And two people walked out of the, like, store that I fell in front of, picked me up. One woman hailed a cab, got her into the cab, and then, like, paid the cab driver cash to take her to the hospital. And she's like, I have no idea who any of these people were. Then they all, like, yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Then went back to their lives.

[Kate Claiborne]

And, like, is the difference that, like, I would get in the cab?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, no, that lady was not going with me.

[Kate Claiborne]

Get, like. Get the whole life story of the person. Stay in the hospital for the rest of the day.

[Sarah McLean]

That's. But that feels Parisian, too.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, what?

[Kate Claiborne]

I mean, I think, Sarah, when we did an event together about this book, which was, like, so amazing and just such a thrill, I think one of the things I said was, like, when I've gone to Paris, I've never even attempted to blend in.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It isn't like, it's fast.

[Kate Claiborne]

It's fast. Yeah. It's just like, nobody is gonna buy, like, me with my, like, beautiful day out, or like, oh, my God, look at that. Like, nobody's gonna buy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So just.

[Kate Claiborne]

I just really leaned in.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Leaned into Ohio.

[Sarah McLean]

My. My daughter and I were in London, you know, a few weeks ago, and somebody stopped her on the street and asked her for directions. And she. And she's, you know, 12, and she

[Kate Claiborne]

was an amazing experience. She'll remember that forever.

[Sarah McLean]

Mom, they thought I was from here.

[Kate Claiborne]

Nobody would ever ask me that. I'm too busy with my mouth open, looking at everything.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Faded Mates is brought to you by Elle Kennedy, author of Love Song.

[Sarah McLean]

After a brutal breakup, college junior Blake Logan has escaped to her family's lake house in Tahoe.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, I don't know, lick her wounds

[Sarah McLean]

and shut out the world. She has a plan for no men and no drama for the summer. Problem is Wyatt Graham shows up, and he is both a man and a lot of drama, largely because he drags up some pretty embarrassing memories for Blake. When she was 16 years old, she confessed a massive crush to him, and he just shot. Shattered her dreams and her pride and, like, took off and became a musician. With his music career stalled, however, Wyatt is back in Tahoe looking for inspiration. And the last thing he expects to find is Blake. And though he spent years kind of keeping his distance appreciating that, like he had embarrassed her when she was 16, he is now here they are in a couple close proximity, and he is discovering that she is not that innocent girl anymore. He is not all wrong for her. He doesn't think she is captivating and impossible to ignore. And these two, first they're smooching, and then they're doing other stuff. And soon they are kind of into each other. Except a tragedy tears them apart and leaves their hearts in pieces. Are they going to be able to forget this one perfect summer? It certainly doesn't seem so. And when fate brings them back together, they have to decide if they're going to put everything on the line for a second chance.

[Kate Claiborne]

Ooh.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So if you would like to check out Lovesong, it is available in print, audio or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited if your podcast stamp supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to by the book. Thanks to L. Kennedy for sponsoring this week's episode. Even though I have not traveled widely, I have lived a lot of different places, and I do think that there is a. I mean, every place is different, and I think there are places that have, like, this mystique. But I think the other thing that I. I really loved about this book is the sense that, like. Okay, so you're talking about, like, an amical divorce, right? So this is like, Leila, who has convinced herself that, like, it was an amicable divorce with Jamie. That's how she has, like, act. And even though it's really clear from the beginning that that is, like. That there is, like, a deep well of, like, kind of sadness and anger there. And then, like, being around Jamie's family is going to really bring this to the surface. But the thing that's sort of fascinating about it is that Griff is the only one who can see it. Right. And there's this part where, you know, he, like, you know, he's in a lot of pain. He's like, stuff's her in a cab. It's like he really. And he's really angry at himself. And sort of the next morning, Michael, who's like the groom at this wedding they're going to, is sort of being like, oh, yeah, Layla said you guys had a great day yesterday. And like, it's sort of like, you know, and he's like a. Like if a man was a golden retriever, but not in a sexy romance way. Like, just in kind of like a dumb, like, you know, everything's gonna turn out great because a nice guy, you know, okay. And even though, you know, bad things have happened to him and, you know, it's still. He's a really interesting character in that way. And Griff is, like, so fucking furious at the fact that, like, none of these people can tell how. How she's lying to their faces. Yeah, right. Like, lying to their faces about what happened between them, about her pain, about the way being here makes her feel, about the imposition. This is about, you know what I mean? All of that. And I think that there's a way in which, like, I'm. I was really interested in the way that, like, almost like, going back to Paris allows her to, like, reset her relationship. Right. To not just to Jamie, who's, like, just a shithead, but to. To this family that was. That was her family. Yeah. And to herself. Right. And, like, the story she gets to tell. And I, And I. I was really interested in. In that, too. In the way that place has such a. I don't know. It's somehow. It's like a door you can walk through. Yes.

[Kate Claiborne]

And like, that, that is like a sort of a theme in the book. Like, gates of, you know, gates of hell. Doors to, you know, sort of like, thresholds is sort of a. I mean, I really think that in terms of, like, a core story that I'm interested in telling in romance. Like, Like, I'm so interested in, like, recognition as, like, one of the most romantic. Yeah. Things. Yeah. And I think that when I wrote Paris Mash, I knew, like, I sort of. I delayed giving Griffin's point of view until the fourth chapter, I think. Fourth chapter. And it was really, like, a challenge in a lot of ways, because for, like, three chapters, I had to make him so mean. Like, it's so. It's really like, I intend it to be uncomfortable, you know? Like, I intend for you to think there's no way I could forgive somebody who is this, like, clipped, this short, this surly, selfish seeming or whatever.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Someone on someone. Goodreads did point out that Griffin Testa, which is his name, is, like, gruff and testy. And I was like, I don't think that's why Kate didn't. But I like it.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. Sarah will say Testa. I did. I chose Testa for some other reason. You can say it, Sarah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Because it's.

[Sarah McLean]

He's so good at the head.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I was like, he has big balls.

[Sarah McLean]

More delicately. Is. He enjoys a meal.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, exactly. He.

[Kate Claiborne]

So I don't know. I think, like, it's intentional that, like, the reader cannot see him.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

At the beginning. But, like, when Layla gets on that elevator with him, like, she is capable of seeing something the same way he is capable of seeing something in her. So, you know, to me, I don't know. There's something so romantic about that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. Yeah, absolutely.

[Kate Claiborne]

So my favorite romances do that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I also feel like there are a lot of, like, nods to other Parisian set romances, which is, like, where we're going to transition to. Right. Like, so I was really pleased on the COVID to see them, like, kissing near a lamppost.

[Kate Claiborne]

Huh. From one of my favorite romances of all time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean.

[Kate Claiborne]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

You won't hear any rules.

[Kate Claiborne]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I am very convinced that Leila's best friend is named Cara because of Kara McKenna.

[Kate Claiborne]

I'll be talking about it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. I mean, so I, I, I also felt like there was A lot of ways in which this was like a. I mean, I think that's true of all people who love romance. The romances we love kind of filter. Must filter into it at some level. But it felt very like the back of the book has the lamppost is more important than the Eiffel Tower on this cover. Right.

[Kate Claiborne]

I'll just say yes, it's a literary tribute. I mean, I sort of said that our sort of psychic relationship to Paris is so complicated, but, like, some of that is because of literature. And, like, part of what is going on in the book is like, you know, the references to Hunchback of Notre Dame or the references to Beauty and the Beast, which is sort of a classic, you know, French. I mean, I was thinking about things like that sort of like French literature that has shaped some of our ideas. Right. But also just. Yeah, I mean, like, I definitely was thinking about that lamppost. I was thinking about Dane and Jessica's first kiss. Griffin and. Griffin and Layla kiss in a doorway, but there's like a light above them and. Yeah, so I was thinking about things like that.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, it is sort of a long tradition of writing Paris.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, both. And.

[Sarah McLean]

And I would say less romance novels in a lot of ways like this. We're gonna recommend. We're gonna recommend, but books that are set in and around Paris. But. But there aren't. You know, it's funny how France doesn't get the treatment that other countries get. But even, like travel, like, you know, American, you know, romance is sort of is willing to send you places.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, there's so many, like, destination wedding in the Caribbean or, like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

You know, two weeks in, you know, Tuscany or, you know, there are these. Like, you're more likely to see that than you are in Paris. And I wonder if it is in part because it's sort of a. It's. There is such a literary tradition. It's nerve wracking. Was it nerve wracking?

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. I mean. Yes. It's also like my. I'll say that, like, my personal understanding of Paris is, like, it is kind of intellectual in nature. Like, some. Some thinkers that I really admire are, like, shaped by Paris. And so. Yeah. Like, you know, like, how much do you want to be thinking about, like, existentialism when you're writing a romance novel or Fantastic. Probably a lot.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

But I don't know, it's a place with. With so many textures. Like, there's a scene where Laila is, like, reading about cafe culture. Like, she's thinking about when she Went on her honeymoon, how she was like reading about cafe culture and it made her kind of like long to be sophisticated. Right? Like, and that, I think that is like an experience of being in a place like that where you're like, wow, this place is, you know, like, I wish I could embody some things about this place. Even though, you know, you kind of know in your core you never can.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You just gotta lean into being the midwesterner in Paris.

[Kate Claiborne]

That's right.

[Sarah McLean]

So let's talk about some books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, I think we should start with Carol.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, I was gonna say we didn't talk about. I think we just need to lay the groundwork of the Champs Elysees. The one thing that is not that sort of reference in this book is a one footed werewolf chasing down his Valkyrie.

[Kate Claiborne]

That is correct.

[Sarah McLean]

Lover.

[Kate Claiborne]

How could I forget?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't honestly know.

[Kate Claiborne]

How could I forget? Also, isn't it like, aren't they in Paris when he destroys the hotel room around her?

[Sarah McLean]

Yes.

[Kate Claiborne]

That's like she's in the bed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What a time.

[Kate Claiborne]

We're talking about the first book in IAD Like a hunger like no other.

[Sarah McLean]

Hunger like no other.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's just like buried under the Champs Elysees.

[Sarah McLean]

Catacombs of Paris.

[Kate Claiborne]

But also we talked about the. The Game Maker series and Paris is in there too. Because there's like a sex. There's always sex clubs in Paris.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's all there is.

[Kate Claiborne]

I have never.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's my understanding.

[Sarah McLean]

I've never experienced one on every corner.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That's what Paris and Las Vegas have in common. Well, and there is Paris in Las Vegas. I mean, I've seen that Paris. I've been there.

[Sarah McLean]

Right, You've been to that Eiffel Tower.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I have.

[Sarah McLean]

It's basically the same. Okay, so leaving that aside, let's start with Kara. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Blue Box Press, publishers of Donna Grant's the Dragon Chronicles, a new collection of Dragon Kings novellas.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So if you. I love a dragon Shifter and who

[Sarah McLean]

doesn't, frankly, who doesn't love a dragon shifter?

[Jennifer Prokop]

And you have not read Donna Grant. You're really missing out because I just think that she just really like loves Dragon Shifter. She has a bunch of these really fun novellas and. Right. The first one we're going to talk about today that is being re released today is called Dragon King. It's part of this Dragon Chronicles and in this one we have Arian. He's a dragon king. He's been listening, sleeping for centuries in his cave, unbothered why? Why not? He's a dragon. He's gonna have, you know, his brethren have woken him up, you know, we got a war, we gotta go fight. There's. And there's this sort of feeling that he gets where someone has crossed into his realm or territory and, you know, and he's ready to, like, go and, you know, burn some shit up instead. Perfect. Is it a lady? It is if her name is Grace.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, no, she doesn't sound like a dragon.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, she has never even stepped a foot out of outside the law. And so she has a book due, she's a writer, and she's found a perfect spot to, like, break up her writer's block until suddenly a dragon shifter who is a king appears and it's just basically like, gonna whisk her away to his mountain, you know. All of a sudden she stumbled into war and, like, basically this is all just like, perfect.

[Sarah McLean]

She's mortal, she's breakable. I bet he's pissed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, she loves to, like, be up and out doing things. He just wants to sleep at all. Sleep away all the day.

[Sarah McLean]

If you love a dragon shitcher. And this sounds like fun. Which it does. The Dragon Chronicles are a print bind up of seven novellas. Dragon King, Dragon Fever, Dragon Burn, Dragon Knight, Dragon Claimed and Dragon Lost. And you can get all of them right now in print or ebook if your podcasting app supports it. You can click on the chapter title to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Donna Grant and the Blue Box Press for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah, so one of my recommendations is. So it's by an author. Her name is Kara McKenna. She has not been writing in some time, but I will say that while she was writing, I think she was such.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

A standout in the genre. She just wrote such interesting stories in a way that, like, if you go and read the blurbs, you're sort of like, like, how is this gonna work? She really sets up some interesting narratives. But the specific one that I'm gonna talk about is called Curio. But, like, the full thing you should look for is like, Curio and the vignettes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Kate Claiborne]

Because Curio was kind of like a novella, and then there were sort of subsequent novellas after it.

[Sarah McLean]

You said that this book, you put this book in a roundup at some point about Paris, and that made me reread it. And my version of it is all of them together.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah, mine is too.

[Sarah McLean]

So, yeah, it can be done in one shot.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, we'll put it in. Shownotes everybody.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes. So it's about an American woman in Paris. She has, like, been in Paris, I think when the book starts, she's been in Paris for a couple of years. She's had a job there. But she has really struck out throughout her life on the romantic front. She has never had a serious romantic relationship, and she has also never had sex. And she kind of hears through the grapevine about this Parisian escort, but that is not. That's sort of the name they use as sort of like code. And she reaches out and finds this man named Didier, who is like the most handsome man she's ever seen in her life. And he lives in a beautiful Paris apartment that he never leaves. And he just does his work, his sex work from this apartment. And it's honestly, like, I think the way I referred to it in this roundup that I did was that, like, I think it's sort of graduate level romance reading. Like, it is a very. It's like a very raw text. It really challenges some of your ideas about like. Like gender norms, but also sex work and what it means to like, fall in love and think about sex and love in, like, new ways that you. That you haven't understood before. I think that's very true for the heroine, Carolee. And I think what you, like, what you find out over the course of the book is that he has not left his apartment because he is like, he has developed deep agoraphobia over time. And so. So it's like her awakening, but it is also his awakening. It's really beautiful. Like, the Curio, as sort of a standalone novella was really beautiful. But then these vignettes add all these extra layers and I still think about it like it just was such an interesting test.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. I think there are Kara McKenna books that really, like, live in my head for sure. Yes.

[Kate Claiborne]

I mean, she was doing things I think that we now kind of take for granted, but, you know, as like exploring something. But like, Willing Victim is a good example of that. Like, when Willing Victim came out, it was really. Yeah, it was very sort of striking, very different. So anyways, that's one of my recs. I think it's fantastic and it's interesting to read about Paris. Like a Parisian man who has not gone out to Paris for many years. It's like. It's fascinating.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. That echo. Right? The place is there, but not there somehow.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Is it true that her best friend's named Kara after Kara McKenna, or is that just me projecting? You tell me the truth.

[Kate Claiborne]

You Know what? I think it might be true in my heart.

[Jennifer Prokop]

All right, I'll take it.

[Kate Claiborne]

You know what I mean? Like, I think. Think. Yeah. Does author intention really matter anymore? No.

[Sarah McLean]

Or. Or ever before?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, I mean, I do think, like, I think there's, like, a powerful thing about our subconscious. Right. Like, the things that's. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, you might have not have ever thought of it, but I hope that you're kind of like, oh, you know what? There is maybe something to that. Yeah, it was funny because I. Like I said on the reread, I was like, kara, whoa. Okay. Just put it out there, Kate.

[Kate Claiborne]

Okay. Even spelled the same. Geez. I mean, I better think about myself. Kara McKenna, if you're listening, we love you. Love you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, I am going to go with a far more wacky thing. All right, so everybody, if you know me, you know that I am very much, like, not an Instagram person. But I do try every week to go and check and see if there's something I need to attend to on Instagram. Like, for certain, if you send me a DM on Instagram, I might never see it, or I'm going to see it. Like, Kate will sometimes be like, why are you liking things that are three weeks old? I'm like, well, because I just found this list. I don't know. So, anyway, I do, however, feel that this whole story I'm about to tell you is an example of fate. So I was looking at Instagram, and someone named Wendy reads. And I'll put this link in. Show notes. What? Tag me in a post where she was at, like, a library sale or a tag sale or something, and she was looking through essentially, like, old category romances. And as you know, we love an old category romance here at Faded Mates, because you could just do the wackiest you could think of. And so she tagged me in this post with a book where she was like, what is this? And the book is called Puppets by Jenna Wright.

[Kate Claiborne]

I'm already. I'm already in it, and it is already obsessed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And, I mean, there's so many things about this. So this is a harlequin intrigue from 1992. And the other thing I was looking

[Sarah McLean]

at is the COVID of this book, by the way, everybody.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah, you'll see it. I'm gonna take a picture.

[Sarah McLean]

It's unhinged.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah. It's crazy. And that's why I was like. And I was like, you know what? It was, like, maybe two weeks before we were recording. I was like, I'm gonna Order this. This is somewhere.

[Sarah McLean]

I must have this.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I must have this. And I'm gonna order it from Better World Books. And I am going to just, like, expedite the shipping here so that I can get it in time for us to record this episode. And I've got to tell you, everything about this is Wild. First of all, it has one of those, like, introductory copy things on the front. So this was also, like, a one that they were giving away to people to, like, lure them into the gorgeous world. Harlequin Intrigue puppets.

[Kate Claiborne]

And why not?

[Jennifer Prokop]

The plot of this book is that a woman named Katerina Lacroix who is from New Orleans. And it actually starts when she's nine in New Orleans. And she is. She's like, you know, a young girl and she's, you know, taken care of her by her aunt and uncle, but her next door neighbor is a puppeteer and she finds his puppets amazing. And she's like, the world is terrible. And he's like, don't worry, there's magic. Just

[Kate Claiborne]

don't worry, there's magic in my puppets.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This is so.

[Sarah McLean]

Pretty much the puppets are magical.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's like, no, just like there's.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm confused. It's like whimsy.

[Kate Claiborne]

It's winsy.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like. Like the world is hard, but don't. There's magic in things.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes, puppets are magical.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I'm gonna be honest with you, everybody. No one is ever gonna read this book. It is not an ebook. This is an older black man. And I was like, oh, that's what we're doing. Okay. Okay. So anyway, she. Then there's a very weird thing where it's like. Then it's like 15 years later. So now she's 24 and her husband has died. David. And she's like, been married for four years. And I was like, yeah, but what? And then he's just dead. And then we pick up in Paris and it's three years later.

[Sarah McLean]

I love these old books because at the end of every chapter, the. It should just say, don't worry about it. This movie. Three years.

[Kate Claiborne]

Wait, he's been dead for three years? And now she's in Paris?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes. So now she's. She's 27. Oh, she was 24.

[Sarah McLean]

No. Okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The husband died, barely hanging on. Go on, everybody. I am in the first chapter, by the way. Okay.

[Kate Claiborne]

These books. These books?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Like, just. No. To get. Meanwhile, at the beginning, in the author's description, it does say that this is an homage and about her love of Phantom of the Opera. So I was like, is there anything more in 1992 than that statement? Probably not. So. Oh, my God.

[Sarah McLean]

The main character's name, Christine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's Katarina.

[Kate Claiborne]

Katerina. Close.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Katarina. All right, then we pick up, and it's three years later. Now, this is this woman's job. During the day, she gives tours at this theater that is renowned through Paris, and it's called the Puppet Theater. And she has tourists to people. There's, like, catacombs underneath the building, but they're secret. Nobody knows about them. And then at night, all of the people who give tours during the day get on stage and, like, dance. Like. But they're dressed like puppets.

[Kate Claiborne]

I. At no point did I anticipate I was gonna.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't know what word is coming next. Next ever.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, you might be like, wait. But it's a harlequin intrigue. So what's going on?

[Sarah McLean]

Where's the hero?

[Jennifer Prokop]

So, okay, I'm about to tell you.

[Sarah McLean]

Girls, who's gonna get this?

[Kate Claiborne]

Girls, girls, calm down.

[Sarah McLean]

Miss. But, Miss. Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, okay, so listen. The hero's name is Raul.

[Sarah McLean]

He.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Everybody thinks, like, Phantom of the Opera. Okay, I'm sorry. I don't even know what to tell you. It's so crazy. So, anyway, there's been a murder. One of the puppet girls has been murdered.

[Sarah McLean]

One of the murdered has been killed.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And everybody thinks she had her strings cut.

[Sarah McLean]

It was a big deal.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Correct. And everybody thinks that Raul did it because they.

[Sarah McLean]

Wait, why? Who's Raul?

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's the hero. No, I know, but.

[Kate Claiborne]

What?

[Jennifer Prokop]

They find him standing over the body with a knife.

[Sarah McLean]

How's he involved with the Puppet theater?

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's an architect or something. He's like.

[Sarah McLean]

He's an architect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's rebuilding the theater because it's like an old theater. Okay, Anyway, listen, don't worry about it. Long story short. Too late. She hears Katarina's in her room. She hears this music. It's from underneath the theater. She goes down underneath the theater. Everybody's been looking for Raul. They think he's the murderer. She finds him down there, and he's like, I'm not the murderer. They have, like, a sexy interlude playing

[Sarah McLean]

piano in the catacombs.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, something like that. It's all very confusing, I will admit to you. I really did. Then there was, like, a bunch of intrigues. Some of the other dancers have been the rich people who come to the theater. They're stealing from them. And then there's, like, a bad woman named Babette who's, like, one of the other Dancers. And there's, like, a lot going on. And then I honestly just skipped to the end because I was like, what is happening here? And basically, one of the puppets has come alive and is like.

[Sarah McLean]

One of the puppets has come alive?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, he's the puppet master.

[Sarah McLean]

So there are magic puppets? Yes, they are. The old man from the beginning is the puppet master?

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, just. There's a new guy.

[Kate Claiborne]

He was just a neighbor.

[Sarah McLean]

He just a neighbor.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He just.

[Kate Claiborne]

He just introduced her to the world of puppets. Oh, forget about that.

[Sarah McLean]

We don't know, you guys.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I. Here's what I'm going to tell you. There was a murder. There's people stealing these. Raul and Katarina figure out who's a murderer is. And fall in love and. And bring down the bad, evil puppet master who is a real puppet. Yeah, that's it.

[Sarah McLean]

Of course.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And that's the end.

[Sarah McLean]

Wait, so what do they do with all these puppets? Do they burn them? What happened? All the puppets left over.

[Kate Claiborne]

You guys want to talk to you. I could really. I don't want to be like this, but I actually know a lot about puppet theater.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Wait, what?

[Kate Claiborne]

In.

[Jennifer Prokop]

In Paris? My God.

[Sarah McLean]

Okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Amazing.

[Sarah McLean]

All right, do it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Tee it up. I'm excited.

[Kate Claiborne]

I'm not going to do too much,

[Jennifer Prokop]

but, like, hurting your fur.

[Sarah McLean]

Period.

[Kate Claiborne]

Like in the early modern period in the Renaissance.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Breaking news that.

[Kate Claiborne]

So, you know, England is always, like, a little bit behind what's happening on the continent, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

And when the theater shut down in England because of the Puritans and, like, the revolution and Cromwell and all this stuff, there's like, this surge of puppet theater. And a lot of it came from, like.

[Sarah McLean]

Like Punch and Judy stuff.

[Kate Claiborne]

Like, the Parisians were, like, doing stuff with those puppets.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, no, that is. I mean, clearly, it was kind. I was like, I think this is based on real thing. Like, in the catacombs, he's found all these old puppets, and they're all like, yeah, yeah. And, like, here's the part, though. I did mark this one amazing line, and that's when I was like, I can't read this anymore. She is looking at all of these, like, old puppets that he founds. It says, old feelings of magic and make believe stirred inside her. She heard Luther's gentle voice again as she stared at the puppets. Haunting portraiture. Haunting portraitures of the human condition. And I was like, okay, not portraits. Portraitures. Anyway, that was puppets by Jenna Ryan. It's level. Yeah. I was like, whoa, is intense. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

That's incredible.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It really, honestly was something else.

[Sarah McLean]

Talk about setting as character.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The Phantom of the Opera for my next novel had a chokehold on people in the 90s. It really did.

[Sarah McLean]

But also imagine, like, right now, people are always like, oh, New York. The editors, they're all. They're turning everything down.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, they were like puppet theater in Paris. Yeah. Harlequin was like, let's make this the one we give away to people. This is the one people are going to want.

[Sarah McLean]

This would be like.

[Kate Claiborne]

This would be like an amazing, like, coordinated April Fool's joke that romance authors could do for their editors. Like, they could all, like, on April 1, email their editors and be like, okay, I've been thinking about puppets. Just like all of us do it

[Jennifer Prokop]

on same day anyway. Raul and Katarina get together, figure out who the puppet master is, and that's that.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. All right. I love the 90s. Well, Thera, go ahead.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, I can't compete with puppet with puppets. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Lumi Gummies. Consistent, mellow, and super delicious, Lumi Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of day distressor a midday mood boost or help getting the best sleep ever, Lumi Gummies has a strain that's right for you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I would like to talk about the midday mood boost train that I'm on.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, dude, I've never tried that before. Well, I feel like it has been.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The weather has been quite strange here in the spring and some days are just cloudy and it's like, not nice. And all I want to do is like, sort of like, I don't know, like, do nothing in the middle of the day. And so it has been like a really, like, sometimes I'm just like, you know what? I want to, like, keep going. I want to feel a little pep in my step. And so I think taking like a midday gummy come sometimes maybe makes me feel really happy. And then like, I watch some TV

[Sarah McLean]

and have a nice time. Very nice. That sounds great. Definitely not during a work week when

[Jennifer Prokop]

you're recording that it's a weekend activity.

[Sarah McLean]

Weekend activity. Well, if you would like to try out a midday mood boost with Lumi Gummies, you can do that right now because Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. Go to lumigummies.com that's lumigummies.com l u m I gummies.com and use the code faded mates for 30 off your order code faded [e-mail]. thanks so much To Lumi Gummies for sponsoring this week's episode. But I'm gonna talk about Harper Bliss's French Kissing, which is a very cool, interesting series of books that is billed as the L Word meets Emily in Paris in the text, although I think that's a new. These came out in 2018 and 2019, so. And Emily. Paris did not exist. Did not exist. But here's the deal. So this is a Sapphic collection of books. There are five books in the series, and they are written like. It's written like a television series in that there is. It is multiple characters having multiple romances over the course of five books. So it's. And the way that they're structured is this like French kissing, season one, season two, like, all the way up to season five. And then it's like episodic within. So anyway, there's the. The whole show centers around a PR firm in Paris owned by Claire and Juliet, who have been best friends since they were teenagers or since they were like, in college. And they do PR for like, basically, like crisis. PR for like, personalities or like PR for personalities. And Juliet's partner, Nadia, they've been together for a decade and they're really having, like, Nadia is a surgeon or Nadia. I'm sorry, Nadia runs a hospital in Paris. And they are. Juliet and Nadia are having like a difficult time sort of trying to connect 10 years into their relationship. Like, life is hard, right? Then they have an employee named Stephanie. And Steph is, you know, just. She's in her early 30s. She's very excited because she's just landed this like, high profile politician client, Dominique, and all these characters. And then there's not. Then there's like another. There's like a surgeon from the hospital who's also involved in these books. And we meet them all kind of at a dinner party and it's just like all these lesbians. Like, it's like a world of lesbians in Paris. And some of them. And it. I was, as you were talking, Kate, I was thinking about, like, setting and this, this series is really set in Paris about Parisians. So, like, the Eiffel Tower is on the COVID But, like, like, I don't think I. I did not see the Eiffel Tower.

[Kate Claiborne]

Like, I think if you write a book about Paris, they are not going to let you. Not put the Eiffel Tower on.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, exactly. And what's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Cool.

[Sarah McLean]

So a couple things. One, I'm like, riveted by this. It is really soapy. Dominique, the new politician, who is now working for the who is now has hired the PR firm, ultimately, over the course of these five books, becomes elected president of France. And she's married and has children, but she falls in love with Steph. And then, like, there's like, a whole, like, it's revealed to the public, and then it's sort of like. I mean, it's very dramatic. There's a lot of, like, very soapy.

[Kate Claiborne]

This sounds, like, delicious. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

The marriage is, like, complicated. They think about going out and finding a third. Like, there's all kinds of, like, exciting, intriguey stuff in here. It feels very like a community, you know? Like, I think one of the. One of the challenges, like, with Sapphic text, with Sapphic romance often is, like, if you have hung out with, like, groups of lesbians, like, there is a lot of, like, dramatic, soapy stuff that happens, like, in these likes. And this is not a soft series. There's lots going on in this book. And it feels very authentic in a lot of ways. Like, in all different ways. I don't know if Harper Bliss is French, though. I say suspect she is. At least she's like. Or at least she's comfortable in France and knows Paris. But anyway, over the course of these five books, lots of, you know, interesting things happens. It's so sexy. The sex is, like, top, top tier, like, erotic writing. If you look at the audiobook version of this, the covers of the audiobook books are blazing hot. And then they have these, like, cartoon books in the ebook. These cartoon covers for the ebooks. And I just had a great time. I'm only. I'm like, three books in. There's like, tons of stuff happening. It's very dramatic. So I would say, like, it's not a traditional romance in that, like, we're not at the end of every book getting an hea. But over the course of the whole series, you are like, these are very sort of big romantic stories.

[Kate Claiborne]

And you think it's building to the hea.

[Sarah McLean]

I do. I think for.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think.

[Sarah McLean]

I think the. I think the president and the PR person are for sure gonna end up together. And, like, I think that's like a really big dramatic thing. Cause it's all happening on, like, the national stage.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And I think. Yeah, I think these, like, Juliet and Nadia are gonna figure it out. Juliet now wants to have a baby with her. Like, so there's, you know, there's lots happening. I'm really into it. Like I said, it's really sexy. It's really romantic. It's very. It's Like, Paris is the setting for this book in the sense that, like, here are a bunch of people who are, like, going, like, going around to neighborhoods in Paris that, like, I don't. I don't know, you know? So I'm into it. And that is. So it's the French Kissing series,

[Jennifer Prokop]

and

[Sarah McLean]

I'm gonna read the whole thing.

[Kate Claiborne]

Nice.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Perfect. All right. Kay, what else you got?

[Kate Claiborne]

So I want to talk generally just about, like, an author, but I'll mention a specific book, too. But if you are out there and you have not read Laura Florin's romances, they're so good, I would highly recommend. This is an author who really loves, like, France generally. Like, some of her books are about Provence. Some of her. You know, it's like, she's written about France kind of extensively in her romances, but she has several that are set in Paris. And I think when you're reading her work, you can just tell you're in the hands of a writer who knows Paris like a native.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. I mean, to the point where I. The first time I read the chocolate books flatly was like, oh, she must be French. Like, it just. Everything about it just reads as someone who, like, lives there or is a native. Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes. She's very, like, immersed in French culture. And so you know her often. Like, I think in the chocolate series, all the heroine. At least in the first three, all the heroines are American, but the heroes are French. And so, like, if you want to read like, a French hero, oh, man, she's.

[Sarah McLean]

You're speaking French, and it's just great.

[Kate Claiborne]

They're making pastries and chocolates. Anyway. Like, she's, like, you know, she's a really beautiful writer. Like, her prose is really beautiful as well. And so when she writes about Paris, it's, you know, it's, like, moving. She writes about it in a way that, like, you can feel the way she loves it. So really, like, wonderful, descriptive writing. And she's also, I think, incredibly talented at writing emotion. She. I don't know, she really lets her characters. I guess this is a French feeling I have about her books, is like, she really lets her characters, like, linger on how they are feeling in any given moment. So, like, I think that extends to, like, when her characters are eating something, typically that the hero has cooked for them, but also, like, in the sex scenes. Like, she just has a really beautiful way of writing, Like, giving herself the time to let her characters feel an emotion. And I think, for me, that's one of the most magnificent things about Paris is How many people there give themselves the time to experience things, whether that's a cigarette or a cup of coffee or whatever. So I really love. I mean, so many of her books I really love. But a favorite of mine, which is like, you guys have this great way that you talk about books, like books that blooded you. One of mine is the Chocolate Kiss, which is between Philippe and Magaly. Magalie has, like, her aunts are in Paris. She grew up part of the time in the US and part of the time in France. He is a world renowned pastry chef, part of the French elite. Right. And she runs this little cafe and he is moving one of his pastry shops to the same little, little island she lives on in Paris. And so it's like a very classic setup for a romance. This sort of like enemies to lovers. But it, you know, the setting makes the book feel so different in so many ways. Also picks up on like, various fairy tale themes. And it has a scene in it where, like, Paris has a snow day. And it's like. It's one of the most memorable things I've ever read in a romance. It's so, like, intimate. It's so. It's such a beautiful picture of, like, human community. Yeah, I love that book. It's really. If you haven't read it, it's worth picking up. That's the Chocolate Kiss by Laura Florent. Nice.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, I'm going to talk about. Lauren Blakely has a series called From Paris with Love. And there are two books in the series. And a lot of people, like, when you sort of like, look for, like, you know, books that in Paris, romance books set in Paris, mention Wanderlust, which is the first book. But I'm actually going to talk about the second book, which is called Part Time Lover. And in this book we have Elise, and it starts off with her and a friend in Copenhagen and they're on like a tour boat or something. And I mean, it's just like, was, I don't know, like one of those beginnings where like. Okay. And it all just felt very European to me. Everybody. So she's on a tour boat with her friend and they go going past, like, private residences and homes. And there is a man, a gorgeous, perfect man, doing yoga, naked on his patio as they go by.

[Sarah McLean]

Perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And he is like, basically, like. He just does it for like, the kicks. Like, basically knows. Yeah. You know, knows that the tourists are gonna come by and wants to have them have a nice time. But, wow. He is. His name is Christian and he and Elise like, Sort of. He catches her eye because she yells out like something like bravo or whatever. And he's like, meet me, you know, meet me at 7pm at. the Jane. And she and her friend. And her. And her friend's like, are you actually gonna do this? And she's like, I don't know, maybe like, you know, I'm in another country. Like, why not just have a. A good time? So she goes to. It doesn't work out because she goes to a bistro called Jane, and he is at a club called the Jane. So it's just like one of these, like, missed connections. And then when in Europe.

[Kate Claiborne]

Exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like when. So then it kind of picks up essentially a year later. And what happens is Christian is like, this is when you're like, only in romance. Fight. He was kind of a jerk when he was a. You know, in college. His brother, like, Eric, talked some shit. You know, talk some. And he got his life together.

[Sarah McLean]

Together.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then he spent, like, the next 10 years in finance. And he, like, essentially has so much money that he has. He retired at 28 and now he's 30. And he, though, does take, like, these contracting jobs all over Europe because he is a polyglot. He speaks, like, five or six languages. So he will go and help with translation.

[Sarah McLean]

Fine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, where do you think he ends up? In Paris. And guess who works in Paris. Elise.

[Kate Claiborne]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I can't believe. What are the chances.

[Kate Claiborne]

What are the chances she has seen his.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Naked body.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Still has pictures on her phone. Every once in a while, she likes to look at them. Okay. So anyway, the thing that was really interesting to me, though, about this book, though, is, like, how quickly it turns into. So she's kind of. I thought was really fascinating. And it does. It takes a while to, like, uncover this. Well, it's. I don't think it's a big spoiler. She is only looking for a casual affair because she was married before and her husband was killed in a motorcycle accident. And you're like, God, that's terrible. Well, then at. She shows up at her husband's funeral, and his other wife shows up.

[Kate Claiborne]

Oh, my God. His other wife.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He had a whole other wife. And so she was. And they had only been married for six months. They. It was like this whirlwind affair. They got married, and it turns out this man was like, like. And so she's, like, really burned by marriage. She's like, I'm not going to do this pig. Right. Exactly. Eduardo. Why. Why would you. Okay. And so then what happens is, okay, so then you go back to Christian, and Eric is his brother. And Eric's wife leaves him, but she is trying to essentially, like, engineer essentially a takeover of the company. So she's like, eric, I'm leaving you. And also I'm going to steal your company from you. And of course, the only way to save the company because of a grandfather's will is for Christian and Elise to get married. That's the only way.

[Kate Claiborne]

Incredible. Incredible, incredible.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And you know what I like? I just think, like, Lauren Blakely is like one of those people that really knows how to just like keep a book moving, right? Like a real pro. And I was just like one of these books I'd read a while ago and then just kind of fell right back into rereading and was like, what a nice time I had. So anyway, that's love.

[Kate Claiborne]

A will that forces a mayor. Love it.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, listen, you. What are you going to do? Let your evil sister in law take

[Sarah McLean]

off with the company?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of course not. No.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Can't be done. So that's Part Time Lover.

[Kate Claiborne]

People are like, that's not legal.

[Sarah McLean]

Who cares?

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's France. Everything's legal. Okay, that's Part Time Lover by Lauren Blakely.

[Sarah McLean]

I want to talk about Mia Asher's Love Me in the Dark, which is again, you know, you said earlier, Kate, that Kara was doing some really, like, interesting things before. Like they became things we sometimes expect. And I think Mia Asher, I think this book is a good example of Mia Asher doing that exact thing. So Love Me in the Dark is about Valentine Tina, who is married to

[Jennifer Prokop]

a man named William.

[Sarah McLean]

And their marriage is a mess. Like, he is really distant. She wants to have children. He's sort of not that interested in that as a concept. They live in Greenwich, Connecticut. They're like, you know, it's very sort of. They have a very particular kind of like poised, presentable life together. And it is not good. And they've sort of come to a place where they feel like they have to, you know, it's a mess. She's told him a number of times and he says, all right, well, why don't we go to Paris and try to fix it? Like, we'll take ourselves away and we'll go to Paris. And she's like, okay. She sort of puts together this whole trip, trip to Paris where they're gonna stay in an apartment and like, you know, like, find themselves in each other again. And William is an asshole and doesn't show. Like, he's like, actually work, actually this, like, why don't you just go without me?

[Kate Claiborne]

So there's a Frenchman on the other side.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So she goes without him.

[Sarah McLean]

And she's, like, living in this apartment, and she's sort of like a wreck about just everything. And there is an artist who lives upstairs. An artist, like, tattooed and, like, French and beautiful and, like, probably does yoga naked on the balcony. I mean, the type. The type. And he's like, why don't we, like, go out? Why don't. You know, there's a nightclub downstairs. Why don't we. We go dancing? Why don't we, like. And they have this, like, kind of wild kiss. And then she's like, I'm married. And he's like, okay, well, then I'll just. We'll be neighbors. And they fall so hard for each other. But of course, like, this looming thing, like, she is married. She's married. She's going. Ultimately, when her lease is up, she's going to. That. Or least, like, when her time is up, she's going back to her, like, life in Connecticut as a Stepford wife, right? And she, like. But these two are like soulmates. They are so drawn to each other, and it is so romantic. And they don't. They don't sleep together because they're. He's like, if I.

[Kate Claiborne]

If.

[Sarah McLean]

If we do this, like, I'll never be able to let you go. And there are these moments where. Oh, there's just, like, one moment where he's just like. All I want is a different.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, a.

[Sarah McLean]

For there to have been a different life here, like, for literally anything where we could be together. Like, he's very honest about. They're kind of, like, really honest about their feelings. But, like, there's this thing between them, marriage. And then the husband shows up and is like, I'm here. I love you. Let me take you home. And they, like, leave without her saying goodbye to Sebastian. Like, she goes to his apartment and he's not there. And it's very dramatic. And this is like three quarter, like, two thirds of the way through the book, this happens. And you're like, what the fuck is happening? Because there's still. You know when you're reading and there's, like, Runway in the book, and you're like, I don't understand. Like, we're about to take a turn. Is William gonna be a decent man? No, William is not going to be a decent man. Like, they get back, it's worse than it was before. Like, her marriage is like a shambles. But, like, she's now Left Sebastian. Right, like, and left him in this kind of, like, horrible way. Like, he doesn't. Neither of them, like, have had the closure that they needed. He's a wreck. I mean, like, oh, it's so emotional. It's so dramatic. And ultimately he's like, I'm going to America to find her. And then you're like, wait, is this a good idea? And it just. It's so. I'm not gonna tell you, like, how it all ends because it is so, like, twisty turny in the end. But it is. I mean, it is a great book. It is really, really a fun read. I mean, it's very emotional, but very fun read. I mean, it's that sort of like, artist, Frenchman, he's your upstairs neighbor in Paris. And. But also, like, it is. Jen's been reading a lot of cheating books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like. Yeah, right. That's interesting. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

You know, Mia sort of threads this needle where she's like, they don't fuck, right? But, like, yeah, these two fully cheat. Like, they are. They are in it with each other while she is in Paris. And it is very emotional.

[Kate Claiborne]

Okay, I'm gonna have to get it.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, it's very emotional. So that's Mia Asher. Love Me in the Dark.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm sure we all have, like, a. There is, like, one more. I just wanted to, like, name drop. Right. Which is. I mean. I mean, I'm sure there's lots that we could. A book that I thought was actually more about the wine making regions of France is called Grape Juice by Eliza Dumay. This is a book I worked on for 831 stories. And I just think if you are at all interested in, like. Like, really in setting, like, the description of these vineyards and, like, the work of making wine is really. It's really extraordinary. I thought this book, like, the writing is just spectacular. And so what happens is Alice is a New Yorker and she worked for a wine distributor. And her boss essentially sends her to France for the summer to sort of, like, learn more about winemaking so that she can, like, be, you know, just like, sort of like her knowledge about this can expand. And she meets all of these, like, people kind of from all over Europe who are working there for their own reasons. And then she falls in love with Henri, who is, I think, like, kind of like coming out of a bad, like, relationship himself. And it's just like a really interesting book about self discovery, but it's really a book about. About wine. And it's. If you're. It's just luscious. I don't know. Like, the writing of this was really something else. I thought so. That's Grape Juice by Eliza Germain.

[Sarah McLean]

Love that word, luscious.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it is.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, there's also. If you're interested in watching, like, two hot people do finger banging on the top of the Eiffel Tower.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, sure, we gotta mention.

[Sarah McLean]

Cannot Miss A Caribbean Heiress in Paris by our other friend, Adriana Herrera. Yeah. Another Adriana. Adriana Anderson, lives in France and has written a couple of books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Including one that I put on the Best of the Year list about. What's that?

[Jennifer Prokop]

We'll always have Paris. Right?

[Sarah McLean]

We'll always have Paris, which is also

[Jennifer Prokop]

like a hot, surly artist or whatever in the building.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. Roommate or not roommate. A neighbor in Paris on the, like, sort of final Christmas Eve before a woman returns back to America to. To face her sad, boring existence.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think, you know, we didn't mention a lot of historicals, but I think there are a lot of historicals where Paris is seen. I mean, like. Right. Like Lord of scoundrels, like Ian McKenzie. You know what I mean? Like, where Paris is almost like the. The escape from the rigidity of the aristocracy in England, and therefore you can just, like, go there and be, like, wild and free and do whatever, but, like, you're gonna. You know, if you're gonna be, like. Then for real, you gotta go back tangling and keep it tight.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. You know that in the one Wallflowers book, I think it's. I think it's. Is it Scandal in Spring where Annabelle and Simon. That's where they go.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

For their honeymoon, I think. And it's like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, it's scandalous.

[Kate Claiborne]

Everything's different there.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And I think, like, those can be really fun as a way of just, like, kind of saying, like, here's someone who. It's like a way to physically mana. Like. Like physically represented. Someone is, like, outside of society in some kind of way.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. You're out there. You're going to the puppet theater. You're seeing things.

[Sarah McLean]

Right. I mean, it should I. It bears saying that as much as I. Oh, we always talk about a Caribbean heiress in Paris. All of that series is set in Paris because as Adriana said when she came here to faded mates, and as she says often, like, when she decided she wanted to write about. She wanted to write a historical, she was looking for places where Dominicans existed and the World's Fair, a very cool

[Jennifer Prokop]

world of Latin America, kind of arrived

[Sarah McLean]

at that World's Fair. So yeah, it's interesting. Paris. Historical Paris is interesting. Yeah, it is always like. Like, I got my dresses from Paris. Yes, Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, Paris is like a very.

[Sarah McLean]

The wigs came from Paris.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, Right. It's.

[Sarah McLean]

It's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's. Yeah. It's like the way Paris exists in historical is often it's like a different kind of, like, romantic, aspirational, you know, kind of kind of thing. But we're going to be doing Lordy and Mackenzie soon, so I did not.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, yeah, well. And you often do a. With a. French characters really hold a lot of interesting weight in historicals.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Like.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

Your French modiste.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, the modi. The modiste on Bond street is always French. She's never like, just some.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Some lady from, you know, Somerset or whatever.

[Sarah McLean]

Exactly. And then there's like, the arrogant Frenchman who sort of wanders through a book, but it. Yeah. French France has a. A real mystique.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Or like, it's something you survived. I mean, like, famously. Right. Like, everybody in the Regency that went off to fight. You know what I mean?

[Sarah McLean]

Think about, like, you know, there's that enemy. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So, I mean, I was thinking about, like, the spy master's lady. I mean, like, so there's a lot of, like, really interesting ways that, like, in historical France exists, and often there's like.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, they're in those old historicals, like the kind of. Kind of country set historicals in the vein of. What's her name?

[Kate Claiborne]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah McLean]

The famous Regency. Why am I drawing a whole blank?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Are you talking about Georgette Heyer?

[Sarah McLean]

That's who I'm talking.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I was like. I was gonna be like, are you talking about Georgette Hair?

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, in the vein of hair. Like. Like, she sort of birthed a group of, like, you know, this wealthy English. Like, they're sort of like, down on their luck. Frenchmen who survived the revolution, and then now he. Like, they escaped the guillotine, and now they're, like, here. So interesting.

[Kate Claiborne]

Speaking of the guillotine. No, I'm just kidding.

[Sarah McLean]

No, I know. We love the guillotine here, and we're

[Kate Claiborne]

out of time for Kate to talk about the guillotine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Next time on Faded Mates.

[Kate Claiborne]

Next time on Faded Mates, we'll do

[Sarah McLean]

a whole episode about the guillotine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This podcast is free. And also, we want to stay out of jail, though, so we're gonna continue on anyway.

[Sarah McLean]

So that is France.

[Kate Claiborne]

That is. That is France in a nutshell.

[Sarah McLean]

You don't need to know anything more than what you learned here today.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

We've Nailed it.

[Sarah McLean]

One thing I do want to say about France, about French characters, is on the COVID that Mia Asher book, he is smoking a cigarette. And I do think French.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And I do think French characters can get away with smoking in romance.

[Kate Claiborne]

I think that's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think that's true.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Kate Claiborne]

I talk about.

[Sarah McLean]

I talk about, like, if you put an American, like, American smoking, forget it.

[Kate Claiborne]

In the Paris Match, there's, like, a lot of smoking. And Laila is a physician.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She's always like, what is going on here?

[Kate Claiborne]

But I have to say, like, the first time my husband and I went to Paris together, I remember he, like, he talked about the cigarettes all the time. He's like. I mean, I really want to ask somebody about their.

[Sarah McLean]

Please don't. Please don't.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Let's just let that go, you know? Okay. I'm sorry. I have to return to the guillotine for a minute. In a Bloomy Head by J. Winifred Butterworth. The mother essentially lived through the French Revolution. And the whole entire prologue is, like, the mother's escape from France, essentially, like the things she saw out the window. And I honestly thought it was, like. It's such a banger of a, like, opening in terms of, like, setting.

[Sarah McLean]

That's great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Setting the stage for a kind of, like, historical trauma that a character like, like, has. And then it filters down through, like, the family. And they don't. They don't know that story. Like, we, the readers do. And I. So anyway, if there's some guillotine action. I'm just saying, if you're looking for guillotine. If you're looking for a guillotine, that's it. A bloomy head. So I. I mean, I just felt compelled to say it. I'm sorry. It wasn't. It's important. It wasn't a plan. The rest of the book takes place in England, where the guillotine is not. But there is. I can give you a guillotine on page. And romance, I can. Romance is really, truly unmatched.

[Kate Claiborne]

Yeah. It's got everything.

[Sarah McLean]

All right, well, thank you for having me. We love you so much. We're always so happy to have you on. You know, you can come anytime. Tell us where reader listeners can find you. Kate Claiborne.

[Kate Claiborne]

Well, right now you can find an echo of me in the Paris Match, which is out right now in ebook and print and audio. You can find me at my website, Kate clayborne.com or on Instagram or Threads at. Kate Claiborne, author. Yay.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, we love you. We think if we have have faded mates live ever again, Kate will probably be there too.

[Kate Claiborne]

Because my maker comes and I'm this. I. I always have to play the straight man to YouTube.

[Sarah McLean]

Everybody loves it. Not for Kate. Everybody know. No, I think people may have forgotten that when we say not for Jen or not for Sarah, it's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It really started out it's not for Kate.

[Kate Claiborne]

It's not for Kate.

[Sarah McLean]

It's not for Kate.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Puppets.

[Sarah McLean]

But I don't think we talked about puppets probably are not for Kate. That book's so weird that. Oh, yeah, I don't know. It's for Kate in a sense of

[Jennifer Prokop]

like, it's an artifact of something.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't think we talked about anything today. That's not for Kate, though.

[Kate Claiborne]

I mean, the naked yoga is really. That's not for Kate.

[Sarah McLean]

That's not a person you'd be interested in.

[Kate Claiborne]

No, I would.

[Jennifer Prokop]

No, you would stay far away from that man.

[Sarah McLean]

I would say.

[Kate Claiborne]

Who does he think he is?

[Sarah McLean]

What kind of.

[Kate Claiborne]

Doesn't he have a sense of decor?

[Sarah McLean]

Pants on. Okay, well, that is that, Everybody. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friends, Jen, Prof. And Kate Claiborne. We are Fated Mates. You can listen to us every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find us [e-mail] where you'll find a full list of all of the books that we talked about today and other cool stuff that Jen decides you need to know about. In show notes. You can click on episodes and find all the shows the show notes there. Also, you can find us online at threads and Instagram, at Fated Mates Pod and on blueskyated Mates. If you want to spend more time talking about Paris or anything else about romance, you can join the discord which you access by becoming a member of our Patreon. Learn more about [e-mail] Patreon and we love you all. We hope you're flying to Paris. At least in your dreams,

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sam.