S08:43: Romance with Magical Elements

Summary

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Fated Mates S08:43 – Romance with Magical Elements

Date: July 22, 2026
Hosts: Sarah MacLean & Jen Prokop

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Episode Overview

This week, Sarah and Jen dive into the vibrant world of romance novels with magical elements—stories that blend the real and surreal, using a touch of the speculative to push characters and readers into new emotional and imaginative spaces. Framing their discussion around the “what if…” question that powers speculative fiction, they highlight recent trends, thematic approaches, and standout titles that use magic, curses, and the supernatural as vehicles for personal transformation, romance, and societal reflection. The conversation ranges from laugh-out-loud premises (sentient sweatpants!) to contemplative, character-driven tales of grief and healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Speculative Romance: Framing and Boundaries (12:34–24:16)

• Defining Speculative Fiction
  Jen: “The way to know if you’re in a speculative fiction type of scenario is, is the text or the story playing around a question of, like, ‘what if’... as opposed to trying to accurately portray, like, now or then?” (17:08)
• Key Subgenres in Speculative: Sci-fi, fantasy, horror—each with a distinct "what if" (e.g., magic, monsters, technology).
• Narrowing the Scope:
  • No deep-dives on time travel (to be covered in a future episode).
  • Paranormal creatures (vampires, werewolves) are mostly out; magical elements in otherwise realistic stories are the focus.
  • Romantic fantasy (“romantasy”) is set aside for this discussion.

2. Magical Realism vs. Speculative Romance (22:15–24:16)

• Jen and Sarah caution against the casual use of “magical realism” outside its specific Latin American literary context.
• Sarah: “Realistic romance with a magical element... that's what I mean here.” (23:17)
• The stories highlighted typically change one variable in an otherwise real-world setting.

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Featured Books & Thematic Explorations

3. A Love Song for Ricky Wilde by Tia Williams (24:21–31:52)

• Premise: A Harlem-set romance where a magical leap year night bridges times past and present—Ricky, adrift from her powerful Southern family, finds connection and purpose amid speculative mysteries.
• Notable Elements: Lush sense of place, ambiguous time magic, rooted realism with a touch of the fantastic.
• Sarah: “One of the things I want from speculative romance… is I want it to feel like I don’t know what’s around the corner.” (28:08)
• Jen shares a memorable moment (31:01): At a Tia Williams event, an audience member asks, “‘How do you decide if your characters need to heal themselves in order to be worthy of love, or if falling in love is what heals them?’” Tia replies, “Everyone deserves love.”

4. My Date with a Pair of Gray Sweatpants by Dakota Kakaday & Cassie Opiah (33:55–38:37)

• Premise: A delightfully silly, sentient object romance—Caitlyn’s thrifted sweatpants house the soul of cursed, very sexy Matthew.
• Sarah (chuckling): “The sweatpants!” (35:57)
• Themes: Magical curses, punny humor, and body-swapping hijinks; the ‘what if’ as a playground for levity.

5. The House of Now and Then by Edward Underhill (38:37–44:07)

• Premise: Harlow, a trans man in crisis, retreats to a Cape Cod house haunted—not by the dead, but by his regrets and relationships.
• Unique take: The haunting as metaphor for unresolved trauma and personal growth.
• Sarah: “This house is haunted—though not in a traditional sense. Not like in a Widow’s Bay sense.” (40:09)
• Structural Insight: Many speculative romances focus on a single character’s journey, with magic catalyzing self-knowledge and healing.

6. Do Your Worst by Rosie Danan (45:53–52:31)

• Setup: In the Scottish Highlands, a rational archaeologist and a professional curse breaker butt heads (and lips) investigating a legendary castle curse.
• Jen: “One of them is a believer, and one isn’t. It’s like that X-Files kind of vibe.” (46:32)
• Speculative Twist: The romantic tension is driven by their differing beliefs and the reality (or not) of the curse.

7. Every Version of You by Nathalie Mesnier (52:31–58:59)

• Premise: After dying in a car crash, Joey gets a literal do-over—sent back to any point in her life to correct regrets.
• Sarah (on the bold inciting incident): “Wow, this is a heroine who has made a terrible mistake and paid for it, everybody.” (55:54)
• Depth: The book grapples with redemption, agency, and the complexity of “what if you could start over?”

8. The Night Island (Lost Night Files #2) by Jayne Ann Krentz (58:59–63:57)

• Highlights: Psychic experimentation, secret islands, “Lotus Eaters” vibes, and atmospheric creepiness; strong metaphors for trust, danger, and self-exploration.
• Jen: “Sometimes I think good speculative is often kind of creepy.” (60:49)

9. Ashley Poston’s Body of Work (69:25–76:52)

• Titles: The Dead Romantics, The Seven Year Slip, The Someday Garden.
• Trendsetting: Poston is credited with bringing magical realism (in the broad/umbrella sense) into contemporary romance post-pandemic, with whimsical, grief-tinged, and often funny stories where magic serves as a metaphor for transformation.
• Sarah: “Her books really belong to one character... the door is unlocking things for her.” (75:29)

10. Losing Sight & Struck Speechless by Tati Richardson (76:52–80:21)

• Sensory Magic: Heroines grappling with loss of sight or voice, forcing them to open up in new ways.
• Jen: “What if the sense you rely on most was taken from you?”

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Recurring Themes & Notable Quotes

• Personal Transformation as Central Arc:
  “These books… are really the journey of one character… experiencing whatever this magical element is because they’re the ones who need it to grow, to be loved.” — Sarah (43:38)
• Speculative Metaphors for Falling in Love:
  “Really good speculative fiction… is like a metaphor for falling in love. One person doesn’t want to do it… and the other challenges them: ‘But what if?’” — Jen (51:40)
• Magical Trends and Pandemic Parallels:
  Post-pandemic, there's a noticeable uptick in romances featuring magic or death (e.g., funerary settings, ghosts), reflecting deeper processing of society’s collective grief and uncertainty.

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Side Conversations & Memorable Moments

• Opening Banter: Sarah and Jen commiserate about oppressive summer heat and escapist trips to IKEA, segueing into World Cup mishaps and sports fandoms in New York and Chicago.
  • “I'm in full mourning for normal weather here in Brooklyn.” — Sarah (00:21)
  • “She said, ‘Mom, it’s art.’ ‘No, it’s capitalism. I’m sorry to tell you.’” — Sarah recounting a trip to IKEA with her daughter (04:12)
• Widow’s Bay TV Chat: A lengthy, spoiler-light discussion of the fictional horror show’s use of classic Stephen King-esque tropes and character-driven storytelling.
  • “He knows this island is fucked. But he is desperate to prove it is not.” — Sarah on protagonist-POV horror (65:28)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Speculative Romance Scope & Definitions: 12:34–24:16
• Featured Book: A Love Song for Ricky Wilde: 24:21–31:52
• Q&A with Tia Williams (quote): 31:01
• Sentient Sweatpants Romance: 33:55–38:37
• Haunted House/Speculative Grief: 38:37–44:07
• Discussion of Widow’s Bay TV tropes: 63:57–69:25
• Ashley Poston’s Influence: 69:25–76:52
• Sensory Speculative by Tati Richardson: 76:52–80:21

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Further Reading & Listener Engagement

• Books with magical elements can range from the silly (sentient sweatpants) to the profound (regret-fueled second chances, haunted pasts, and journeys through grief).
• If you love seeing romance push the boundaries of reality, check out recommended authors—Ashley Poston, Tia Williams, Jayne Ann Krentz, Tati Richardson, and others featured.
• Join the Fated Mates Discord or Patreon to discuss more hidden gems and future speculative romance episodes.

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Closing

Sarah and Jen sign off inviting listeners to share their own favorite magical romances and tease a future deep-dive into time travel.
Sarah: “That’s where we are with speculative and with, you know, magic and magical romance.” (80:56)

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(End of summary.)

Transcript

[A]

Jen, it is hot as the balls. I do not write my books well.

[B]

And you know what? It was. Okay, so we're recording much earlier in July.

[A]

I'm sitting in the darkness, everyone.

[B]

You laugh like two episodes ago. Remember when I was like, I haven't been opening the windows. I'm like a Victorian maiden. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no, we're in mourning, full mourning for normal weather here in Brooklyn.

[B]

And I remember as a kid just kind of being like, I mean, even when I lived in Houston, which is. It's so fucking hot. Right where my mother in law would always have like all the blinds closed and everything. And I was kinda like, come on, this is excessive. No, she was right, everyone. I was wrong. That's all you need to know about that. It's so hot now. Then we finally got like massive thunderstorms and I was like, oh, it's gonna be cooler today. And it is, it's 85 instead of 100, but it is still hot. But thunderstorms and humid and terrible.

[A]

The worst.

[B]

Oh, so I feel you.

[A]

Well, we went out and we. Because I. So everybody, part of the reason why, you know, we're recording so early in July is because I'm having some knee surgery in early July. And so I have sort of been very rigidly attempting to leave the house every day and like experience my leg. I've literally been saying to people, like, look at my leg, look at how it bends. Look, gaze upon me standing upon it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, so I was like, okay, we're gonna go out, we're gonna go to ikea. Cause I was like, I'm gonna get a little cart to like wheel that can wheel around with me if I need to wheel it around. Sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And also Ikea, Listen, when it's 102 degrees outside, you know where you should go? IKEA. Do you have an IKEA in Chicago? I'm sure you.

[B]

Yeah, sure. They're not close. I mean, I really have to.

[A]

You have to choose to go there.

[B]

Yeah. Yes. That's not somewhere I would casually trip

[A]

into for most people in New York. That is true. But we just happen to live like a straight shot to ikea. And honestly, when we were. When my daughter was very small, we used to go like every weekend. Because here's a trick, everybody. If you have a small child, and I would say she's 12 now and like still loves it, but if you have a small child, like, there's actually kind of nothing better for them than ikea, because IKEA puts together all these like rooms and so. And she was a big pretender. So we would go and she could do three or four hours just, like,

[B]

pretending to be like, this is my apartment.

[A]

And now I'm cooking in this kitchen. And, like. And it really, you know, that was under everybody. Oh, was it? I didn't hear it, but. And now I'm cooking in this kitchen. And, like, now we're gonna, you know, look in all these cupboards. And I mean, like, it's actually. If you're ever just like, I'm gonna, like, if there's a giant. If it's raining or, like, super hot. This is a real.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

A good hack.

[B]

Listen. For parents, capitalism is garbage, but in this one way.

[A]

Well, it's funny because. So now she's 12. And so when she was little, we couldn't get out of IKEA without, like, buying a new stuffed animal or, like, a new whatever. Like, it was fine because she had a great time. We'd, like, eat a meatball, and then she'd get a stuffed animal, and it would kill two and a half hours. It was. It's also a great place if you have an only child. It's a great place to, like, bring a friend because then they can totally entertain each other. And you just, like, sure, stand in the air conditioning.

[B]

I'll be at the meatballs. Yeah.

[A]

So we're going through here. Like, I, you know, I bought my. I bought a. Like, a bed tray. Like, a tray to put my laptop on so I could work. And she, like, peers at my shoulder and she's like, mom, can I get this? And I look. And she said, it's a painting of a Polaroid camera. And I was like, no, no, you may. You may not get that. And she was like, mom, it's art. No. And I was like, no, it's capitalism. I'm so sorry to tell you, my friend. Amazing. And she was like, well, all of this is capitalism. And I was like, yes, exactly.

[B]

But this.

[A]

I do need this bed tray.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[A]

So anyway, so that's what. And then we left and we went and we watched. We went and we had lunch outside in the shade, like, in a, like, covered space, and watched the World cup match.

[B]

Oh, fun.

[A]

Which was Australia and Egypt. And for those of you who are, like, big World cup fans, you will know that at, like, 7, it was. It was 10 Egypt for most of the match. And then at, like, 70 minutes, in Egypt, own gold themselves. Themselves.

[B]

Oh, no. In the World Cup.

[A]

Jennifer. Oh.

[B]

Oh, no. Sarah. And here's the thing. It literally happened.

[A]

And the whole place was like, what the. Because,

[B]

listen, that poor person. I just.

[A]

You better go into hiding.

[B]

Like, you better. That's like, shame upon your. From your whole. No, that's terrible. Oh, that poor person.

[A]

I mean, just right,

[B]

so.

[A]

Well, what happened was, like, so in Australia, evidently has been. Has not scored. The, like, audio is like, Australia has played 260, 60 minutes of soccer without scoring a goal.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so. Cause they've just tied and tied and tied. But right now, we're in. I mean, for those of you who aren't paying attention to the World Cup, I'm so sorry, but right now, we're in the round of 32, which is like, you have. There are no ties allowed. Like, somebody has to win. In fact, I don't even know who won this match because we're recording and they're all. They're in penalties now.

[B]

I just looked it up.

[A]

Oh, did it happen? Yeah, yeah, it just happened then, like, minutes ago. Just a minute.

[B]

Egypt won based on penalty kicks.

[A]

Oh, my go. Thank. Thankfully. Because I really was worried about this man.

[B]

No, that's terrible.

[A]

Like, so. Because they, you know, it was one of those situations where the kid. The ball was coming, and, like, they were all huddled together and all the Australians were jumping to, like, headbutt.

[B]

It's true.

[A]

And, like, for some reason, this guy just, like, jumped up and.

[B]

No, I can't even.

[A]

And I just. Everybody was like, oh, I can't.

[B]

I'm surprised I didn't hear, like, a disturbance in the force just from my house.

[A]

Nightmare scenario.

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's funny because we, of course, had a rerun of our, like, sports episodes, and, you know, my friend Gina was on to talk about, like, soccer and the World Cup. And the great part is I listened to the beginning, and it was Eric did the intro where he was basically like, here's what's about to happen. And, like, Eric talking about sports is never not gonna be funny to me. Eric being like, I don't know. These sports just are taking over.

[A]

Oh, did he say that?

[B]

I pretty much do it. It's hilarious.

[A]

He's, like, spending a lot of time watching sports recently, and I'm not sure

[B]

I. Yeah, no, see, and this is, like, my permanent state. I mean, my husband loves to watch sports, so, yeah, it was really funny. So anyway. What a time.

[A]

Well, if we had. So anyway, and then we left. But we left before the end of the match because I was like, I. We just couldn't do it anymore. We couldn't set Aside anymore. So here we are. And then came home to my neighborhood, where there is. It is a very, very high. My neighborhood is an extremely high Middle Eastern population in New York City. And I was like, oh, I have to go into the pharmacy because, like, I had to pick up medication for, you know, my surgeon had called in. And I walked in and there were like, 15 men just standing, huddled in the pharmacy, looking at the TV on the wall.

[B]

I was like this. I love it. I wish I could be more interested in the World Cup. I will. That I.

[A]

You know what I would say, Jen? I don't know that I'm interested in the World cup when I'm not like, in a room, in a crowd, a tv.

[B]

Well. And we went to a, like, a Chicago Fire, which is like the men's soccer team here game. And it was very compelling live. I just think on tv, it sort of feels.

[A]

It's long and slow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I would say, which isn't always a bad thing.

[B]

Meanwhile, people watching the World cup are like, no, it's fucking not. You too.

[A]

I know. Well, I mean, I'm always amazed by the best.

[B]

I truly believe, like, listen, in that wnba, they're scoring every minute. Everybody.

[A]

Here's what I would say.

[B]

Athletically.

[A]

Is that a word? I guess so, yes.

[B]

Athletically.

[A]

Why does it sound like not a word to me? Well, because we are not. It's not a word.

[B]

I'm either. Why would I use this word athletically?

[A]

I actually, Eric and I have been talking about this, and every time we sit and we watch soccer, I think to myself, like, these people, like, athletes are athletes.

[B]

Like, they run like, six miles a game or something. Yeah.

[A]

Straight minutes. And he's like, basketball players are also running, like, the whole time. And I appreciate that. And so we've been talking a lot about how, like, granted, it doesn't. It sort of obviously is different kinds of athleticism, but they are both moving at a clip in a way most other sports do not move at a clip.

[B]

Like, there's like a. In football and baseball, there's like a stopping point. Yeah. And in hockey, they're, like, sliding around on the skates. I'm sure that's real. I'm sure that it is obviously still a huge workout, but I feel like there's, you know, running with.

[A]

You think skates makes it easier?

[B]

Well, I just think.

[A]

I think, like, blades having, like, lethal blades on your feet.

[B]

Just think every sport has its own great things about it.

[A]

I will say. And this is another. I'm so you guys it's not an episode about sports, but whatever. I guess we're just in it. England. Did you see? England was in Atlanta this week and they decided that they were going to go to a Braves game, and they picked the center fielder of the Atlanta Braves and decided to create like a bunch of like, soccer style chants and songs about him. And he had no idea. Nobody had any idea they were doing it. And so England arrived, like, all of England. All of England arrived prepared with, like, chants and songs. Anytime he touched the ball.

[B]

That's honestly great.

[A]

The video is actually a delight because he's like, what's going on? Yeah, he's like. It takes a second for him to realize, like, oh, no, it's me, right?

[B]

They're talking about me.

[A]

They picked me. And then apparently he, like, gave a bunch of. He threw a bunch of balls into the. Into the crowd and, like, gave his hat away.

[B]

Like, that's great.

[A]

And then I guess I don't know anything about baseball, everybody, but apparently the Braves have not been doing so great. And so, like, and they won. And so a bunch of Braves fans were like, hey, can England just come.

[B]

Can England just beat here with us? You know, I like that. I like a nice. I like a nice sports story because sometimes there are. I'm not going to talk about. There's a very, you know, I'm not going to talk about it. I'll tell you after we record a real shitty. A real shitty sports base.

[A]

I don't want to hear it right now. I'm having a lot of joy about sports.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And I don't want to.

[B]

Yeah, you don't want to hear about another bad pitcher, Fine.

[A]

I don't. So. All right, everybody. Welcome to Faded Mates. We are not a sports podcast, but you wouldn't know it from the episode we dropped this past or a few weeks ago.

[B]

Listen, Sarah, we just are responsive to the world as a society.

[A]

We are about it. We are holding Mira to society, everyone.

[B]

Also, I do think, like, it's always really funny when someone goes back and is like, yeah, I was listening to XYZ thing, right? Like when people re listen to the pandemic episodes. Somebody was talking about this on the discord, being like, yeah, I was listening to Sarah being like, yeah, we've been inside for 15 days. Feels like a long time. Whoa,

[A]

what a time. I am Sarah MacLaine. I read romance novels and I write them.

[B]

And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And Sarah, tell us about our topic today.

[A]

We're gonna Talk about speculative romance. And I should say, actually to all of you, and also because Eric might be losing his mind right now listening to this recording, but it's not my fault. It is July 3, and New York City has, like, lost its loving mind over the 250th birthday situation.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And there is. It is a constant. I don't know if you can hear them, but there are constant. It is broad daylight, everyone. And there are fireworks outside my house. Like, I can't stop it. It's hot. It's a city. It's. These people are just. They're gonna burn something down for sure. Hopefully it's just, you know, a few

[B]

blocks from here, so hopefully it's not my house. Yeah, totally. I feel you. I feel you.

[A]

So if you just hear in the background, like, I don't know, bursts, that's what you're hearing. You're hearing a celebratory. I think nobody. Nobody's excited about it. They're just excited they get to use.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, gunpowder. Anyway, we are talking about speculative romance today, and I am very excited because here. But here's the thing. We have some limitations or. So we're putting some. Some guardrails on this week's episode because there are so many different ways that you can talk about speculative fiction and romance, and we are isolating a few things out of this. So also, this is a good time for us to sort of just say to everybody, if for any reason, you were like, last week's episode, like, we just. If you skipped it because you were like, I don't know who this guy is. Why are they talking to a man?

[B]

Listen. It was so good.

[A]

What is it about?

[B]

You should go back and listen. Yeah.

[A]

Anders de lamotte was our guest last week. We talked about mystery and thriller, procedural thrillers and psychological thrillers and how they differ and how they exist in genre and the covenant that they have with readers and the promise of their premise and how they are siblings and cousins to romance. And it was great.

[B]

It was great. Well, and I think. I don't know that we necessarily said why, but we love genre, and I think we've just been really interested in exploring other genres, sort of what do they do? And so that was a great episode. And then I think that it will be helpful to illuminate future topics when we talk about them.

[A]

This week's episode of Fated Mates is sponsored by Lucy Score, author of the Dead Guy Next Door, the first in her Riley Thorne series.

[B]

Listen, Riley Thorne just wants a nice, normal life. Is that too much to ask? Well, I guess so, because she's divorced, broke, and living with a pack of elderly roommates. She's been having hallucinations, which her tarot card dealing mom has convinced are clairvoyant visions. And just when she thinks things can't get any worse, a so hot it should be illegal PI shows up on her doorstep looking for a neighbor who turns up murdered. He is Nick Santiago. He doesn't play well with others. I mean, sure, he loves the ladies, but in terms of his work, he's a rebel and a black sheep and someone who is just going to be,

[A]

like, on his own.

[B]

So when pretty possibly psychic, Riley lands at the top of the list of suspects, Nick volunteers to find out who done it. He likes solving a mystery, and it really has nothing to do with the fact that he thinks Riley is so beautiful and he loves a damsel in distress. So they need to figure out who pulled the trigger, keep the by the book detectives with a grudge at bay and deal with a stranger that claims he was sent to help Riley hone her psychic gifts. What's gonna happen? Perfect.

[A]

Listen, Lucy Squorr writes a very, very funny book. And so this is a contemporary romantic mystery with a little bit of comedy and a little bit of paranormal. Because it does turn out that Riley has in fact, got clairvoyant skills. And you can read this book and the others in the series right now in print, ebook, audiobook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. There are four books out right now in the Riley Thorne series and a fifth to come in the fall. So you can get yourself absolutely up to speed and ready to go. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title to learn more about the whole series. And thanks to Lucy Score for sponsoring this week's episode.

[B]

Speculative fiction, right? So let me just, like, do a little run on this. Cause I teach this, right? So this is like a really fun thing to teach to kids. And it's like something we're all aware of. But, like, you know, this is a big umbrella genre. And the way to know if you're like, in a speculative fiction type of scenario is, is the text or the story playing around a question of, like, what if, what if, right? As opposed to trying to accurately portray, like, sort of now or then historical fiction, realistic fiction, right? So like, what if, what if, blah, blah, blah. And I think, like, then there's like, different sub genres. And it's really interesting because as a kid, I feel like the what if Genre. It was like sci fi and fantasy, but, like, now horror is almost always lumped in with. Lumped in with it, right. So these are sort of the big three, like, sort of tentpoles of the speculative fiction umbrella. And it's really interesting to think about sort of how they're different. And we are gonna have, like, some future episodes where we talk about these, because even though they all fall under the like, what if. Right. And when I teach this, I sort of have, like, come up with this handout and I worked with my librarian on it, and it sort of like, you know, horror is like, what if monsters were real? Right. Fantasy is like, what if magic was real? And then, like, sci fi is almost like, what if, like, technology or could do that almost. Right. And so these are like, sort of the big, like, ways of thinking about speculative fiction that are. That make. I just think for. And I think it goes in waves. I'll be really interested for our future episodes where we talk about, like, we are really clear about, like, when romance is ascendant. Right. And I wonder. I always wonder, like, oh, do, like, the sci fi and fantasy and horror people, I mean, Right. Also feel like their genres are, like, tuning forks for certain kinds of societal disruption. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I think.

[A]

And I think that was really interesting last week. And I think one of the things that Anders said last week that, you know, we didn't do our, like, we didn't do a pregame or a post game with him because, you know, it wasn't a trailblazer episode. It was, you know, really about talking about genre. But one of the things he said last week, he really spoke to the difference between thrillers in the United States and thrillers in Scandinavia. And I keep thinking. I keep going back to it because it really does feel like, you know, it's proof what his. His point was essentially that, like thrillers in the U.S. the heroes are. Or heroines are lone wolves, right? Like, they are outside the system, kind of disillusioned. But in Scandinavia, the heroes and heroines of those books are working in teams. They're working with partners, and then also inside the system, because the system sort of is structurally designed to work for them. And so, I mean, I think that was really powerful. I think it really spoke to something interesting. And I think it speaks to why those Scandinavian thrillers are so popular globally, because there is sort of hope that in itself, it's not just, oh, we're gonna find out who did the thing. We're gonna vanquish the villain. It's you know, what if the system did work. Anyway, all of this is to say. So, as Jen said, we're sort of leaving some things out. We're not going to talk very much about time travel today.

[B]

Right. Because we want to do a time travel episode. I feel like that's maybe its own thing. Or there's enough of it that we can isolate it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So. And then we are

[B]

so.

[A]

But we are going to talk about just like books that have. And also we're not talking about paranormal here. I don't think I have any paranormals.

[B]

I don't either.

[A]

Yeah, I might, like, I do actually have some. Well, I don't have paranormals. I have things that have paranormal elements in them.

[B]

And we'll get there when we get there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like straight paranormal to me would be defined by like the presence of like, vampires or werewolves or whatever. Right. Like, it's like those creatures. And I don't really have an. I think like speculative and romance to me means like, like I said, but like, what if of it all. One last. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

But I do. I just want to say before we get into like, creature. I don't like, I guess we don't have creatures.

[B]

Right. I don't have any monsters or anything.

[A]

All the characters in my books are at some point human. How about that?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Never a creature. And so I think. I think there's that. I think we sort of isolated that. And then fantasy. We don't. I don't have fantasy. Like, we're not talking about romantasy here.

[B]

No.

[A]

So we're talking really about like almost magical realism.

[B]

So I typically. Everybody really try to avoid the term magical realism. Unless I'm talking about like Latin American literature just because it is. And you know, this is not the time or the place for us to go into like, kind of why or how magical realism as a genre existed. But magical realism in Latin America is a genre that really is addressing a kind of like, societal issue that happen under. Yeah. You know, so I feel like, to me, speculative just feels like kind of broader. Right. Like it. Again, it's like, it's what if. But it's not necessarily like trying to make. To talk about like a society where people were disappeared. Right? Yes.

[A]

And that's why I feel weird about. I also feel weird about magical realism. But I also know that like, when we have Zoraida, when we had Zoraida on, she was like, it's all speculative. Like, if you just have like the big. The big umbrella.

[B]

Umbrella.

[A]

And so I'm trying. I guess the reason why I said that again, I totally agree with you. I think what I'm. What I mean to say is, like, realistic romance with a magical element.

[B]

Correct. I think that's how I feel too. Like. Right.

[A]

Like, these.

[B]

These. I think books, at least the ones I picked, it's like everything they're playing, everything is played really straight except for this one element. You're changing. Right. Almost like a. It's like, almost to me, like, okay, like, remember when you were a kid and you were learning about the scientific method and it was like, you're going to change this one variable?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what I think, like, these books are doing. It's, like, changing one variable and then, like, sort of seeing, like, what can happen. And you know what? I think the other thing I will say is these can be, like, serious or silly. Like, I tried to pick a couple of books that were, like. You know what I mean? Like, kind of have, like, a variety of different books because some of them are just, like, groovy and silly, and I like those a lot, so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. You wanna start?

[A]

I do wanna start. I'm gonna start with one that won't surprise people because I have talked about it before as being, like, a book that I really. I think about a lot. And that is Tia Williams, A Love Song for Ricky Wilde.

[B]

That was on my list, too. Yeah.

[A]

Which I think is, like. It's my favorite Tia book. And that's saying a lot because I actually really do love Tia's writing. But this book is. It's so special. It's so special. So, okay. Ricky, our heroine, is the middle child of a extraordinarily wealthy Southern family. And she's sort of the. She's sort of. I wouldn't say she's exiled, but she's just, like, not. She's not appropriate for this family. Like, they don't. They don't think of her with, like, very much, like, of anything. Like, she's not. She's just. She's just the odd one out, right? And she has this kind of, like, fantasy that she wants to move, she wants to open a flower shop. She wants to, like, be different than them. And this is a family that has, like, a lot of money. It has power. It has, like. The idea is that these girls, all girls, all sisters of this family will, like, all become, you know, powerhouses in business or law or, you know, something with gravitas. And Ricky's like, not really for me. And so she is. She heads to New York City. And she ends up in Harlem where this. She takes a, like, ground floor garden apartment in Harlem. And her landlord is this elderly woman who is, you know, really immediately sees Ricky for the magic within her. And, like, at first, you're just sort of like, she sees Ricky is magical because Ricky kind of is magical in, like, a pure way. Like in a. In a. You know, as a. As a. I don't know, a metaphor. And then it's February, and it's the end of February, and it's a leap year. And there is something about February 29th where, like, the veil goes thin and there is this sort of, like, magical, like, literally magical moment on the block. And there's this. There's, like, an abandoned block that's, like an abandoned lot on this block that's a community garden that's been turned into a community garden. And it's February, it's fricking cold in New York. Nothing is growing. And Ricky is like, I smell jasmine in this, like, in this community garden. And inside this garden, she discovers, like, this mysterious man. And Ezra. And Ezra becomes like, Ricky and Ezra just are electric together. They, like, they are connected in a million different ways. They are, like, they seem right for each other. I actually. One of the hallmarks, I think, of Tia's writing, if you read oh, my God, Seven Days in June with us earlier this summer, you know, Tia's very, like, her writing, her characters are very grounded in real life. Like, there's another guy that, you know, that's sort of lurking around with Ricky, and he's great. Like, he's just sort of like a casual fling. And the moment she meets Ezra, she's just like, ah, there's something, like, sparkling here. And of course, like, we start to see as readers that Ezra has this, like, mysterious connection to the past. Like, there is during the Harlem renaissance in the 20s, you know, he was a piano player in Harlem in this neighborhood, in this place, and he had a rich life then. Then. And so there's this kind of lurking question of, like, is Ezra time traveling? Is this. Like, is this. Are they both Ezra? Is it one Ezra? How is it all connected? And it is. This book, I think, is so beautifully done. Because one of the things I want from speculative romance, I think, and from, like, this kind of romance is I want it to feel like I don't know what's around the corner. Like, I don't understand how it's going to end. I want it to feel. I want it to be the journey, right? In a way That I am annoyed by it being the journey when it's in mystery. Like, I want all the questions to be kind of open ended until they all tie up really beautifully. And God, this book, I just think it's magnificent. I think it's. When I read it the first time, I just. It was amazing. It is one of the few books that I read in print and then immediately listened to in audio.

[B]

Yeah. That's always such a great feeling, right?

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, I know you really read in audio a lot. I don't read audio very much at all. But this book, I went to the audio and I loved it. And I just think, like, it's so romantic and it's so humid. The two of them are so. They're so rich and, like, drawn to each other and sexy. And there's. Every character in this book is really thought out. And I mean, it's just. It's a blueprint for like a great read.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And it is also, I would say, a book that I would put into the hands of any person who said to me, I don't read romance novels.

[B]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[A]

I would be like, yeah, try this one. Because it's just mad. It is magical.

[B]

Literally. Yeah.

[A]

You know, there are moments where there are books that you read where you feel like this is magical. And this is one of them. I mean, man, I. Every time I am walking down a street in Manhattan and I stumble upon a lot that it is a community garden. There's one, actually, this is not in Manhattan, but there's one on the corner next to the ripped bodice. And literally every time I walk to the ripped bodice and past that community garden, I think about a love song for Ricky Wilde.

[B]

You know, I saw Tia Williams was in my neighborhood, which was amazing, at a local bookstore called Call and Response. And during the Q and A, this woman, she was like the first one up, she was. I'm gonna refer to this as like the pink dress question forever. Because this woman was wearing a really great pink dress. And I didn't, you know, obviously I didn't know her. And she was like, like really effusively like, you know, you got me back into reading. And it was just really great. And then she's like, okay, I have this question. And she's like, I wrote it on my phone because I didn't wanna forget. And she read this question and the whole room was like, it was this great question. And she said, and I don't. I didn't write it down exactly, but it was something like, to Tia, like, how do you decide if your characters need to, like, heal themselves in order to be worthy of love or if falling in love is going to be what heals them? And it was just such a great question about.

[A]

What a good question.

[B]

Oh, it was amazing. It was great. So, and Tia, of course, was like, everyone deserves love. It was a great answer. But it was still, like, I just a really thoughtful question, I think, about, like, kind of like the way we, you know, a writer might approach a character. Right. So anyway, it was great. This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by HarperCollins, publishers of Sleuths by Samantha Moody.

[A]

Okay, so Melody, the heroine of this book, she is a fan girl. She is so much of a fan girl that she runs a fan account online for television's hottest Regency romance actor, Griff Beckett. But when one of the photos she posts shows Griff in a romantic position with an unknown woman, angry fans turn on Melody and accuse her of the ultimate, ultimate betrayal. Posting a fake photograph. Except it's a real photograph. Melody is sure of it. And so hurt and angry, she sets out to prove that the photo is real and that their favorite actor is simply no longer single. Except instead of a girlfriend, she finds a missing persons report and she's pretty sure then that Griff has kidnapped someone.

[B]

Uh oh.

[A]

So this should be a job for the authorities, obviously, but nobody will take Melody seriously. I can't imagine why she'll have to team up with her Internet friends, a distractingly sexy journalist named Levi, and some others to save the day. Nobody asked any of these people to solve this case, but they're gonna do it anyway. And big question is, can Melody solve it, save the girl, and get her dream man in the process? I believe in her.

[B]

We're gonna see what happens. So if you are interested in Sleuth, it's available in print, ebook and audio. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to HarperCollins and Samantha Moody for

[A]

sponsoring this week's episode.

[B]

Okay, my first one, I'm actually gonna start with a silly one, I'm afraid. It is called My Date with a Pair of Gray Sweatpants by Nice. These are clearly everybody pen names Dakota Kakaday and Cassie Opiah. Oh boy.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

Oh boy. This is a sentient object romance, which I do feel is like a.

[A]

We also have a full episode on

[B]

this too, but I did read this one and was sort of delighted by It. Because I felt like it was. I mean, the question of, like, what. What happened? Right. So basically, Caitlyn is our heroine, and she and her friend are at a thrift store. They are thrifting. And she has. She loves to sew. And, you know, but, like, fabric is expensive. And so she is a person who really, like, will essentially buy, like, the grab bags at the thrift store as a way of, like, getting her hands on a lot of fabric at one time. And, like, yeah, sometimes the fabric is, you know, you know, whatever something's going on with it. There's holes or, you know, tears or whatever. But, like, she just can use it for her projects. And so she just really, like, loves, like, kind of thrifting and recycling, you know, fabric this way. So she gets this grab bag, and the reason she originally pulls it is because it has, like, a really beautiful, like, sort of pink sequin kind of dress inside. And she's like, yeah, this will be great. I can definitely do something with it. And then inside, there's also this pair of, like, gray sweatpants which she takes home. And they're in, like, perfect shape, like, to the point where she's like, why was this in a grab bag? Like, these are in great shape. And so she is kind of suffering from some stomach issues. The pizza shade isn't, like, really, you know, like, feeling good. So she puts on these sweatpants. She just wants to be cozy. And she, like, wakes up in the middle of this, like, super intense sex dream, right? Like, so she.

[A]

And the sweatpants.

[B]

Okay, of course it was the sweatpants, Sarah. And this. This Matthew is the name of this, like, guy. And she's like, God, this is, like, so vivid. This is, like, crazy. I can't believe it. And she's like, but go with it. It's been a while. This is, like a fun fantasy. Whatever. And so then the next morning, it's like she puts on the sweatpants and. And. Oh, and the other thing about this dream is that she's, like, dreaming that she's, like, in, like, a. Like, someone else's room. It's not just that this guy is here. It's in, like, someone else's room, right? And so then, like, the next time it happens, it's like, the same sort of thing. And he, like, you know, her name's Caitlyn and he's calling her Caitlyn. And he's like, you're a different Caitlyn. Because he feels. I remember this part. He feels like her earrings. And he's like, what's going on here? And she's like, wait.

[A]

Who?

[B]

Wait? What's going on?

[A]

Right?

[B]

And, like, they then start, like, talking to each other. And eventually what she figures out is that he has been cursed. And Matthew is not just, like, you know, a guy. He is literally, like, bound together with the sweatpants. So that's why every time she puts them on, she's having a sex dream. And you know what? Honestly, you guys can't hate it. No, it was super silly. There was, like a timeline jump, essentially, like, this curse happened. It actually. I felt 100 million years old because it was like, there's a whole, like, sort of running. The way that she figures out a little bit what's going on is he makes a joke. He says something like, as you wish. And she's like, oh, yeah, that was like, my family's favorite, you know, like, holiday movie. We watched it every Christmas Eve. And this guy's like, what do you mean, it just came out? And she's like, wait. And then it's like, say. They say that that's 40 years ago. And I was like, well, I need to fucking sit down now. So fine. So anyway, it is like. So she figures out that this is must. Must be what's going on. And she's really determined to, like, free him from the sweatpants and, you know, get him into her life for real, not just bound to the sweatpants. So it's super silly. I do think that these sentient object romances. This one, I think the reason it sort of, like, worked for me is starts off as a person and then she realizes, like, the sweatpants. Does that make sense? Sometimes when it's like, you know, he's a door, I'm like, I. I just don't believe that he's a guy. You know what I mean? So, anyway, that is very silly, very fun. My date with a pair of race sweatpants.

[A]

Amazing. You gotta talk about a magic house if you're gonna talk about these books. So let's talk about Edward Underhill's the House of now and Then, which is new out this. This out last month, I think, and a really great summer read. If you're headed to the beach anytime before Labor Day, grab this book and take it with you. It is set on Cape Cod, and it is the story of Harlow, who is a trans man who has been through the ringer. Right now he's just broken up with his boyfriend. He has a terrible relationship with his father. He sort of. He's just, like, in a bad place. And he needs to get himself out of town. And he is very, very lucky in that he has sort of had a country house or like, a beach house in. On the Cape fall into his lap. And as we all know, like, this is certainly not how beach houses on the Cape happen in summer, but they have. And he gets to this house, and it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly that the house is haunted. Though not in a kind of traditional sense of haunting. Not like in a Widow's Bay sense.

[B]

Jen.

[A]

Jen's now watching Widow's Bay, everybody.

[B]

You know, we'll talk about that in a second. Yeah,

[A]

so, yeah, let's do this, and then let's talk about Widow's Bay. So. And essentially, like, it's haunted by Harlow's ghosts. So, like, not everybody is dead. Not every. Like, it's. It's just that, like, this place is haunted by his, like, would we say regrets, maybe? We would definitely say, like, the people who. The people and experiences that have haunted.

[B]

That have haunted them. Right, exactly.

[A]

His father is there. His ex boyfriend is there. These are all at different times, but, like. And then his, you know, his professor, who is, you know, has. Has kind of shat on his research is there, and he is the only one who can see any of them, but he can also see a guy there. And this man is not. He's not anybody that Harlow knows. He's like a handyman, and he lives in. He's in this house. And Harlow's like, okay, I can understand. I mean, Harlow has to kind of go through it with these haunts, right? And at first he doesn't, because this is a challenge, right? Like, this is. He's, at first, like, he's not really able to understand, like, why all these people in this place, what's going on? And then it's sort of complicated by the fact that he has this other. This handyman is there. And the handyman, it turns out, is not a mystery at all. It's a mystery why he's in the house, but he's also in the town. And so Harlow gets this opportunity to kind of, like, do romance over. And it's really. This book is Harlow's story, but it has this big, rich cast of characters, not just the haunts in the house, but also, like, all the characters that are in this town. It's very funny. The very beginning of this book begins with them sort of discussing Jaws, which Harlow has never seen. And he's there with his group of his friends, and they have a whole discussion about how they're all academics and they have a whole one of them gets on like J store and is like, sorry, there's all sorts of research about about Jaws, but like shockingly, no one is talking about the obvious queer reading of Jaws. And then there's like a long discussion about how sharks get have big bisexual energy. And Jaws is actually way more fun if you think of all the men as being queer and Hooper as a trans man. And I'm like, this is actually really fun. Like what a fun. You know, full disclosure, I know Edward. Edward is also on the board of Authors Against Book Bans. I know that this book actually is very similar to Edward's personality and I just had a really great time. But it's also like this is a book. And I think there's something to this with all these speculative texts. Maybe not the sexy sweatpants, but I really wonder if these books kind of live in a unique place in romance because they are really the journey of one character.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[A]

I mean I do think in Ricky Wilde, like obviously Ezra is evolving. Ezra's going through it for sure. But it's really Ricky's story and this is Harlow's story. And I think in speculative often that's how it feels like it's one person is experiencing whatever this magical element is because they're the ones who need it to grow, to be loved.

[B]

Right. I want to talk about. So okay, we'll have to just talk about Widow's Bay at the end. Are you done talking about this one?

[A]

So that's the House of Now and Then by Edward Underhill. It. It's really a delight. And yeah, I can't wait to see what Edward writes next. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by Lume Gummies. Consistent, mellow and super delicious, Lume Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of day de stressor, a midday mood boost or help getting the best sleep ever. Lume Gummies has a strain that is really right for you.

[B]

So everyone love, everyone knows I struggle with my sleep issues. And it turns out that my mother in law who is visiting also does. So I gave her some Lumi gummies.

[A]

I'm very excited about this story already.

[B]

And listen, she loves a gummy and she does say that she has to take half of one but that she agrees that she gets the best sleep ever and so do I. And I just think that that is like a really nice thing. Especially in the summer of the Chicago thunderstorm. It just nothing keeps Me awake. Boom.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

It's great.

[A]

Well, if you also have trouble with Chicago thunderstorms or with mother in laws, then you. You can find Lumi Gummies nationwide. Go to lumigummies.com that's lumigummies.com and use the code faded mates for 30 off your order. Again, that that's L U M I gummies.com code faded mates lumigummies.com code faded mates and they ship nationwide. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to learn more. And thanks to Lumi Gummies for sponsoring this week's episode.

[B]

I'm going to talk about Rosie Dannon's do your worst. Now this we talked about that has

[A]

a creature in it.

[B]

Jen, not. No, you're thinking of fan service.

[A]

Oh, I am thinking of fan service. Right.

[B]

But now what's interesting is I would say that these like three books, and she has one coming out in December called Villain Edit about a vampire who goes on a reality TV show, which is funny. But in these three, I do think like all of them are like sort of speculative to one some extent or another. And even in do youo Worst.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

And even in fan service, it's kind of like what if you were magically a guy that was turned into a werewolf and you didn't know how it happened?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, I do think that it sort of is still in that umbrella. I didn't talk about it though, because it is about a creature. But do your worst instead is about a curse. And I was thinking like one of the things that speculative does, speculative romance does do really well is like one of them is a believer and one of them isn't. It's like that X Files kind of vibe to it. Right. And so in do youo Wor, we have Riley and Clark and they are. He does not believe in any of this and she does. And the reason that they come into contact with each other is they are both called to like, the Highlands, the Scottish Highlands. There's a castle there where they have basically been. She has been hired to break a curse that is like plaguing the castle. And he is an archaeologist who has essentially been like, he's been hired by like Scotland, I guess, right. To make sure that there is. You know, because essentially the people who bought the castle want to like turn it into like a tourist destination and a hotel and. Right. Like, you know, they want to do this to it. And Scotland's like, well, we can't have this ancient Castle be messed with if there are artifacts or whatever. And so they are essentially coming at it from, like, two. Coming at, like, the problem in two different cases. And so the thing that's, like, really smart about this book is the first time they meet is, like, in a pub the night before, right? Like, the night before they both start work. And so, like, they flirt, and it's, like, really sexy. I think they even kiss. And then, you know. And neither of them really, like, talk about their jobs that much because he has actually, you know, sort of experience. He, I think, had identified some fake artifacts or been tainted with, like, sort of something like that. He's really looking to, like, regain his reputation. And Riley is like, I. She comes from a long family of cursebreakers, and I think that she is essentially on her first, like, real job. So neither of them really talk about this element of their, like, you know, their jobs. They just have this great night together. And then the next morning, they both arrive at the castle and find out, okay, wait, you believe in curses? And she's like, you don't. And so the whole sort of plot is really tied up in this question not only of, like, is the curse real? Right. Riley totally believes it is. Clark. He's like, there is no way. But also, like, this whole sense of, like, you know, if it is real, then what's that gonna mean for, you know, the future of this town or this village? Right? Like, is it a good idea to turn a cursed castle into a hotel and, you know, sort of, like, tourist destination so there's, like, some enemies to lovers to it? But there's a lot of the plot itself is this discussion. And I think part of the reason it works really well is Clark really is kind of a jackass, right? I mean, he really is very dismissive of the idea that curses can be real. And yet she is so sure that they do that she almost looks way with pity upon him for his, like, lack of imagination.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? And so the ev. And. And I think, like, very quickly, of course, like, readers are like, oh, yeah, this curse is real. Right? So then as he starts to experience things that he can really not explain away, you know, what is it that's going to happen? And then it's like, how does, like, you know, how do the two of them and people kind of play into breaking the curse or whatever in that way? It reminds me of. Remember that one Buffy episode where they're like, she and angel are. They're like, haunted by two people and a woman. It takes Like Angel's point of view, a woman ghost. And Buffy is like, this young boy, and they keep, like, replaying the same scene over and over again. Um, anyway, it's great, I think. And I. But I. Like I said, I think that this is less about a creature. Right. Like, there's not a werewolf or a vampire like there is in this upcoming one. It's just about this idea of, like, what if the two of us believe diametrically different things about the things we're experiencing? And I feel like that's, like, a pretty good metaphor for falling in love.

[A]

Yeah, I think so, too. So do you feel like this is. I feel like in Rosie's. In this case, like, they both do have growth. Like it's not one story over the other.

[B]

I think there's a way in which. Like, what? Really good speculative fiction, and certainly speculative romance. Like I said, it's like a metaphor for falling in love. Like, one person doesn't want to do it, and they're afraid and there's something that scares them. And then instead we get this idea of, like, no, but what if? And so, to me, it does feel like Clark is the one who has, like, the most to lose if he does admit that the curse, the curses can be real. Like, it would change him the most. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas I think, you know, for Riley, there's nothing that would ever convince her that curses aren't real because she grew up with her grandmother. You know, she has seen this. And so for her, it's like a professional thing. Can I break the curse in this place? Can I do the thing I said I could do?

[A]

All right, I'm gonna talk about a debut romance here, which I will probably talk about another time during the year, because I loved it. But it's also a debut, and I just think it's great. I also think it's very possible that everybody's going to have heard of this book by now, by this episode, but. But I want to talk about every version of you by Nathalie Messier, which is so. Natalie Messier is a TV writer. She's written for a number of. A few television shows, and this is her first novel. And it shows. There's something very cinematic about this book. The premise here is really interesting, and one. I think I'm just trying to think of how I want to talk about it because, well, I'm going to talk about it. And I think what's interesting about this book is that she takes the finger in this book very early, and I think she does it in a way that makes me think, like, this is a hallmark of a debut more than. I don't think that you would find many authors deep in their career who would make the choice that she makes. That is the inciting incident of this book. And I was fascinated by it. Anyway, so the premise here is that Joey Vasquez is our heroine. She is in her 30s. She has her early 30s. I think she has been in love since freshman year of college with the same man with her best friend from college who fell for and married another woman in their friend group. And the book begins. And Joey is at a dinner party at their house. And it's the two of them and Joey and this guy Alex, who is like her nemesis. He's a billionaire, he's like a tech guy. They've known each other. He's also been part of this friend group since the beginning of college. He's awful. She can't stand him. And at this dinner, her best friend and his wife announce that they are having a child. And she thinks to herself, like, well, that's that then, like, is somewhere, like, deep in her heart. She was like, maybe there's still a chance. Like, maybe it might have happened, but now they're having a baby. Like, this is like the final nail, right? She drinks too much. She walks outside to get some air. Alex, her nemesis, follows her out into the, you know, air beyond. And she says, and Alex says, are you gonna get over him now? And she's like, fuck you. Like, fuck you for bringing this up. Fuck you for noticing. Like, everything is terrible. She gets into her car, Jen, and he's like, you can't drive. You've had too much to drink. And she's like, no, I'm fine. Leave me alone. Don't tell me what to do. She gets in her car, she drives two minutes from the house, crashes into a tree and dies. And now listen, this is where Sarah came online because drunk driving in 2026 with a heroine. Like, wow, this is a mis. This is a heroine who has made a terrible mistake and paid for it, everybody. She crashed into a tree and died.

[B]

So.

[A]

And luckily, you know, she didn't harm anybody, whatever. She wakes up in a waiting room in like a place, a will. Oh, a wood paneled waiting room. And there is a person there. And the person says, you died with so much regret. And like, what we do with people who die with that much regret is we give them a do over. So you may choose any time in your life and return to it and then start Fresh. And you will have all your prior memories. And the only. There are some rules. Like, you can. Like, no one can know if they find. If anybody. If you tell anybody, you disappear. Like, whatever the things are, Right? Like, Natalie's sort of like. She, like, ties up a few little loose ends, and then there we are, and she says. She doesn't even hesitate. She's like, I choose the first day of college. Because she's like, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna make my best friend fall in love with me. And of course, she gets back to the first day of college, and there is. She had never realized that that is also the first day she met Alex, the, like, jerk. And so it sort of progresses from there. I think there's some really interesting things here. I think, you know, it becomes very. Like, there's this, obviously, the negotiation of. She is a grown woman, and now she's at college with these, like, college students, and she suddenly is like, ugh.

[B]

Like, this is terrible.

[A]

Which is very funny, but also, like, kind of heartbreaking because, like, how do you restart how. Like, there are so many ways that this book made me. I was just. I was really drawn to this book. There is. She uses tense, really, in a really interesting way. And I don't want to talk too much about the ending because I actually don't want to talk too much about the ending of any of the books that I. That I'm talking about today, because I think they all actually really do ends very well, too.

[B]

Yeah, right. You have to. Right, Exactly.

[A]

It's speculative.

[B]

You kind of can really spoil things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Although I did tell you that he was the sweatpants, but fine.

[A]

I mean, that's different. But I think, like, the whole Ezra mystery in Tia Williams book, I think the. I think, like, the house piece in Edward's book, but I think in this case, like, how Natalie Messier, like. Like, threads the needle of, like, this character who really fucks up. Like, she is not. She is a character who has made terrible mistakes and, like, finds a path to being loved and loving, is very powerful. And I mean, I blurbed this book, and I said in the. I mean, I think I texted you when I read it. Like, you. It's the most romantic book I've read in a really long time. And so that's every version of you. And as I understand it, it's probably everywhere right now, so yay. Fun, but worth the hype as far as I'm concerned.

[B]

All right, I am going to talk about Jane Ann Krentz. Who, I think, of course, we have had her on, and you've heard her talk about speculative. I think, for me, that she's, like, really dabbles in speculative because of how much of her thing is about kind of, like, what can your. Like, what if your mind could do stuff? You know, like, that's the big, like, what if? And a recent series. And I'm gonna talk mostly about the second book, but I. The Night Island. But I think you probably do have to read all three of these books. And the books are called the Lost Night Files. And what happens is in book one, which is called Sleep no More, we're introduced to these three women, Pallas, Talia and Amelia, who were strangers until these, like, very weird, strange events at this, like, hotel. And, you know, over the course of the series, you kind of understand, like, how and why they were, like, sort of taken to that place. All of them essentially have. There was, like, a fire that destroyed the hotel, but it also destroyed evidence that essentially they had potentially been experimented on. And afterwards, they form a podcast together. And the whole goal of the podcast, essentially, is to figure out, like, what happened to them. Right? Essentially. And so. And by doing this, they, like, are also investigating other people's, like, sort of, like, strange, like, encounters and. And unknown things and all that sort of stuff. So the reason I picked the Night island, though, is because to me, it had, like, a very. Sometimes I think good speculative is often kind of creepy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's a very evocative, deeply memorable part of this book to me, which is. So basically, in this book, in the second one, we have Talia, and again, like. Right. Like, something happened to them. They can't really remember. They're trying to figure out what it was, but. But they each have these, like, new psychic abilities. And, you know, they were like, we must have been test subjects. They did something to us. What?

[A]

You know, like, what is it?

[B]

So Talia, in this book ends up running into this guy named Luke, who essentially, like, thinks that he has also been experimented on. And their investigation leads them to this very strange island in the Pacific Northwest called the Night Island. And basically, they're investigating some shrink there, but he seems like a Charlton. And this guy essentially promises. It's called the Unplugged experience, that when they get there, you're gonna unplug from all your devices and you're gonna be rejuvenated. And they're like, okay, we're gonna go undercover and as a couple and, like, figure out what, you know, like, is there a Clue here. Like, what happened to us?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Now, one of the things. Okay, so here's the part that I really vividly remember. They, of course, they find, like, a secret lab, you know what I mean? And in this lab, there are, like, these, like, flowers and plants and these, like, gardens that, like, no one has, like, neither of them has ever seen before. And it really reminds me of, like, the Lotus Eaters or something in the Odyssey, right? Like, everything is just, like, lush and dripping and strange, right? So, like, it's like they're walking through, and it's like these plants are just, like, alive in a way that is, like, really freaking them out. And so, you know, and then what they discover is that, like, there are people that have, like, disappeared into these gardens. And so the two of them now have to, like, fight their way out of the evil, like, plant garden and, like, sort of figure out how to get out, how to get off this island, right? Like, it's literally like this, like, black box. They're trapped. No one can get to them. Their devices have been taken, or the devices, like, don't even work there. And I just remember really, like, reading it and just really being like, this shit is creepy. And it takes until the third book, I think, for them to all kind of exactly figure out what's going on. But if you've read any of these Jane Ann Krentz books, like, her later series are really all sort of tied together in this way. And so the series that she's working on now, I think has, like, you know, is related somehow. They're, like, finding out information about, like, who might have done all the. You know, who's essentially experimenting on people. So I think, like, that is so the Night island, like I said, I think, really captures to me the. The, like, creepy Widow's Bay type vibe of the place.

[A]

Well, so tell me, because I said last week, everybody, that I. We are watching Widow's Bay here in Brooklyn and having a great time, because it's actually. I feel like it's very character driven, this show. Like, I'm really compelled. I'm really drawn to Matthew Rhys. I mean, I'm drawn to.

[B]

I'm gonna tell you something really funny. I'm gonna. Really funny. Funny, yes. You kept saying you. How much you like Matthew Reese and Sarah. We started watching the show because I was like, every. Okay, every day I barely watch tv, but I do like to watch TV with my husband, and he loves horror. And so I was like, oh, people say this is good if you watched it. He said, no, I was like, okay, we can watch it. So we start watching it, and I literally was like, fade. This guy's Darcy. I thought you meant Matthew McFadden. I thought they're. They're totally different people, by the way.

[A]

People.

[B]

Those are different people. I had to look. I had to look him up. I was like, wait, really?

[A]

No, no, he's not different person. He's in the Americans, which I assume you didn't watch, but it was another great show. And he's Welsh in real life, but you'd never know it because he has a great American accent. But anyway, he's. And you. And I'll just repeat this in case you didn't listen last week, but I'm gonna go quick in case you did. One of the things that. The thing that I think really is compelling to me about this show is that he is the protagonist. Like, we. We see through his eyes, at least in the first half of the season. And he knows this island is fucked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. But he is desperate to prove it is not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, I love that character, that idea that, like, you could be simultaneously terrified of the horror show that is this island and also, like, willing to sleep in the haunted.

[B]

Yeah. Right.

[A]

To, like, support.

[B]

Support the town. The new. The next Martha's Vineyard.

[A]

Even though the town, like, does not. They're like, you're crazy. We don't wear that. It's up here.

[B]

I. So the thing is, is, like, everybody, I think I've mentioned, like, mystery's romance, loves horror. And he was watching, and he's like, these are all Stephen King things. And I was like, are they are. I thought they were just, like, horror in general. And he's like, no, Jennifer, these are all like. It is a Steve. Like, he's like. It is full of, like, references specifically to Stephen King. Yeah.

[A]

The mist.

[B]

The clown.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean. And I was like, oh. I just. I mean, because I don't. I really only experienced horror, like, through his eyes. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that these were, like, Stephen King specific, you know? And I was like, oh, is that why he kept mentioning Maine? Like, we want to be the next Bar Harbor? Oh, probably.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know? And I was like, oh, okay, I get it. So anyway, that part I. I had did not quite understand. He immediately understood it. But I was like, yeah, you're a horror guy.

[A]

But I think that's the whole thing. Right. That we were talking about last week. Like, these, like, tropes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're not a horror person. He Is so trope. He recognized all the tropes.

[B]

He recognized it immediately.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean. And so I was like, oh, I had no idea. And he was like, why are you so dumb? I mean, he didn't say that, obviously.

[A]

Apparently, there are some Blair. There's a lot of Blair Witch in there, too.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we watched the first two episodes, I would say, you know, for me, I was like, it's funny. Like, this guy Barry. And I think that is probably what's gonna keep me going. Because even though there's.

[A]

Is the second one the hotel one, or is it the sea witch one?

[B]

Yes. No, this is the hotel. And I was. And, you know, it's funny. Cause, of course, I did read some Stephen King books when I was a kid. Like, I read the Stand and Carrie and Cujo or whatever. But he's like, stephen King is not really heavily in my rotation, but I have have seen some of the movies. So the whole hotel. I was like, yeah, those hallways did remind me of Shining. Right? And so. Yes.

[A]

But I mean, I'm really enjoying it. And I. And, like, not. And I. That is just not a show that I would have thought that I would enjoy. So, you know, I feel like it's like a.

[B]

It's like a concession. Like, we both can find something we can enjoy. You know what I mean? And I was really like, meanwhile, though, today I made the mistake of being like, it's not too scary so far. And he's like, well, that's just Stephen King for you. He's like, it seems kind of just fine at the beginning. And then all of a sudden, it's terrifying. And I was like, oh, well, maybe I'm gonna need to do some more investigation.

[A]

I did have to hold Eric's hand

[B]

at the very end of that.

[A]

At, like, one moment in that hotel episode. You know, Eric, who is not afraid, like, does not believe in anything paranormal. Everybody, like, I bring out a crystal, and he's like, ugh, this is the stupidest.

[B]

How. How. Playing against type as a Californian.

[A]

Yeah, exactly right? And then he was. But there was a moment in that hotel one with the crawl space, and he was like, oh, no.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

I mean, same thing. Absolutely not.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[A]

I mean, that's just good sense. Don't. Don't go into a crawl space in a house that no one else is in.

[B]

No, of course.

[A]

In the night. Wait for broad daylight. And Steven Root.

[B]

I just say, stay out of the crawl space entirely. That's just simply not your business.

[A]

Whatever's crawling around in there is not. Should not be you is what we're saying.

[B]

So funny.

[A]

Anyway, I do just want. Here's. Here's one more thing I want to say. I have.

[B]

You have more speculative.

[A]

I could keep going.

[B]

I have. I have one more that I can.

[A]

Okay, well, then this is where I will start.

[B]

We got distracted.

[A]

I want. Well, you know, this podcast guest is free. I want to talk about Ashley Poston because I actually think.

[B]

I think like Jane and K. I was going to say she seems to really like, this is her. Her place. Right?

[A]

And it really feels like Ashley Poston wrote. Now I have to look it up. I'm sorry, everybody. I wasn't going to talk about that first book, but the Dead Romantics. Ashley Postman wrote the Dead Romantics when, you know, it was like, right around it's like sort of mid pandemic 2022. And it was the first of her books. And that one is the one where, like, it's set in a. I think I might have talked. I should have talked about it if I didn't during our like, funeral homes episode. Like, the Dead and dying in the

[B]

world, I think one of them for sure, you talked about maybe.

[A]

Yeah. So the Dead Romantics is set in a funeral home and the heroine can see ghosts and she sees the ghost of the hero. Like, she, like there's sort of a. I think it's like, connected to like, the hero's dead and she can see the hero and then maybe he's not dead at the end. I forget how it ends. I mean, he's clearly not dead at the end. They get together. So anyway, point is, I'm sorry for spoiling the Dead Romantics for you, but everybody read that book. I mean, it has 280,000 ratings on Goodreads. So it's. If that's not one of you is. I'm not spoiling anything anyway. And I feel like she wrote that and then it was like, oh my God, so many people are. It like exploded right after that. And I do think this kind of magic in standard contemporary romance was birthed on the backs of the pandemic. I think it also comes from the same place that like, all the that trend that I was tracking. And then we finally did an episode on relating to, like, morgues and mortuaries and dead bodies in romance. Like, I think this is the other path that romance sort of innovated in a lot of ways. Post Pandemic. This is not to say that there wasn't magic in romance prior to this, but, like, this really does feel like often. I think the other piece of it is in the more current speculative books or books with magic in them. They're also very funny. They're like rom coms, but they have a little, like, magical twist. And so I think. And I really think it would be impossible to talk about this kind of trend in any way without at least acknowledging Ashley really led the way on this. The Seven Year Slip is about an apartment where two people are living in the apartment, and they each think they live in the apartment, but. But it turns out they're living in the apartment seven years apart. And then she wrote one where, like, a musician gets, I don't know, writer's block. And then it turns out, like, she can only hear the. I'm so sorry, everybody. I don't remember exactly. I didn't look this up before we started talking. But she can only hear the music and he can only hear the lyrics or something like that. And they have to find each other. But her more recent. Her most recent book, which is just out like, a couple weeks ago, is called the Someday Garden. And this is another book where I think, you know, Ashley's books are. You know, she's grow. She's changing and evolving as a writer. And I would say that this book kind of, again, like, edges. It sort of really pushes the boundary of, like. I'm not sure I would call this a romance, because I think while there is a very beautiful romance in it, I think it's happening, like, really on the edge of what is really going on in this book. And it goes back to what I was talking about, that, like, these books really belong to one character. And the character, obviously, this is the heroine who owns this book, but this is really a book about grief. And the premise is the heroine of this book has a best friend who. The heroine is a horticulturist. She works at, like, the New York Botanical Gardens or something. And she had a best friend who was, like, her soulmate. And she dies of cancer before, you know, before the book begins. And this. The heroine is, like, going through it, like, grieving her friend in, like, a really emotional, very compelling way. Sophie is the heroine's name, and she gets offered. She's sort of like, I can't. Like, she can't focus at work.

[B]

She.

[A]

She doesn't know what to do. And she gets offered a job at a, like, famous house in Maine. Speaking of Maine. And she's offered, like, a summer sabbatical there where she can go and she can, like, essentially, like, tend to the gardens at this home in Maine. And she immediately. It's another one of those kind of, like, romance, like, magical romance moments where, like, she's off. It feels faded. And of course it is in these texts. And the reason why it feels faded is because long ago, she and her best friend had been to this house together, and they had said they wanted to go back 10 years later, and now here we are, and. And she gets this opportunity to go back. So she goes back and, like, she meets the owner of the house who's this, like, kind of, like, quirky woman. And like, this, again, very sort of classically, Ashley. Listen, if you don't like quirky characters, Ashley is not for you, right? Like, a whole cast of quirky characters. And she ends up basically, like, going off to tend to this garden that is errant, that does not respond to any. Like, this is a woman with a green thumb. And, like, nothing about these gardens, like, really responds to her. And then she finds a door that wasn't there before.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

Oh. And she opens it, and inside is a secret garden and a man. And, like, then it's sort of like, there's some, like, time stuff going on. Time passes differently inside the garden than outside the garden. The door to the garden changes location all the time. But, like, fundamentally, this is a character who has put up walls and is keeping her emotions locked inside, and this door is unlocking things for her. And it is like. Is it difficult to understand the theme here? No. But is it? Well, I just think it's like, as somebody who, like, I'm really, as you all know, very fascinated by grief and romance. And I think this is a book that is really thinking about. I think Ashley is here now noodling these kind of, like, big questions about grief. And I think she was before, too. But I mean, like, this is what happens. Your debut has all the, like, it has everything you're gonna explore for the rest of your career in it. And now we see, like, this book is really. Is really pulling that thread through. So that's the Someday Garden by Ashley Poston. And that's out right now.

[B]

Okay, I'm just gonna mention, because I've talked about these books a lot. Losing Sight and Struck Speechless by Tati Richardson. I really, I think, again, like, okay, first of all, clearly, these are books that are, like, the heroine is the one on the journey, right? And the what if is sort of essentially like, what if. The, like, the sense that you, like, essentially, like, rely on the most or over Rely on the most was. Was taken from you. Right? And so in losing sight we have a woman who is essentially, she is a sports reporter. So Nikki is a sports reporter and

[A]

she

[B]

is, you know, she's essentially like 40 now and she is getting a lot of pressure from the network to like, you know, there's a. They're clearly ready to move her out for a younger, like beautiful, more skinny model or whatever, right. Of her. And she has. Her pride is so overwhelming because of this that she essentially, even though she needs glasses, she like refuses to get them them. And so one of the things that I think is really is. And she like you were talking about the earlier book, like, she actually like gets into like a car accident because she won't wear. She won't get glasses. And it's like herself. But I mean she really is like, just like cannot see a way forward. So she finally goes to get glasses and it turns out that they have like some sort of like magical element where she can like see people's aura. And she's gonna end up with the optometrist, which is great. And then instruct Speechless, which is the second book. It is her friend, this one just came out I think a couple months ago maybe. And her friend Jackie, who is a sports agent who basically is like, I'm not gonna fucking listen to people. I know how things go and I know all the ways that things should work and I don't need to listen to people because they often are gonna steer me wrong. But it means that she is really close minded, right. Like there are times she just needs listen and so she loses her voice essentially and she has no choice but to listen because all of a sudden the thing that she was, you know, she could argue anyone into submission and now she can't do that anymore. And so these are like, I think the series and I hope that there will be a third one just because I enjoy them so much. These. And I also really like that these are older characters. Right. Like, I think what I'm saying to this is like, I don't know, there's a sense in these that it's just like you're not too big at your old age to like have somebody come along and like shock you into a new way of seeing the world, right. And so I just, I love both of these books so much and I think they're really fun and really sexy and I think also like, just like I said, doing that work of like, what if, right? What if, you know, what if you're so what if your glasses actually help you. You help you sell the world better instead of it making your life worse? What if you couldn't just argue people down in. You know what I mean? That you couldn't win every argument because of how smart and fast you are at talking. So I think that's a really great way that we see, like, a thematic exploration. Right. Of like, the senses as being about your kind of personality too. Yeah. So, yeah, both of those are really good.

[A]

Well, I mean, I have a bunch of other names that I could drop, but I think that we are. I think this is good. And I think we're gonna come back around to time travel. Stay. Stay tuned because we are gonna get to time travel. But I do think that that's a little bit of a different.

[B]

A lot of Nora Roberts books. I know I put that one. How do you pick one?

[A]

It's funny though, because. Right. I mean, and we'll get there and I don't wanna. I don't wanna jump the gun here, but, like, it does feel like time travel is not what's going on right now. Like, time travel is something that. That happened in romance before and now.

[B]

And that's why I was like, let's talk about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It just feels like a different. A different order. Anyway, everybody. So that is. That's where we are with speculative and with, you know, magic and magical romance. I'm trying to think. I feel like it hasn't quite hit the ma. The magic of it all hasn't quite hit hit TV either,

[B]

or.

[A]

Or film.

[B]

I just don't know what to say about that.

[A]

I know that's not your. Well, I. I mean, I don't.

[B]

That's an interesting question. I mean, I think there's always been so much fan, like pure fantasy and horror that. I don't know, maybe these sort of light speculative elements are. Are something that aren't quite there. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So, anyway, I'm Sarah Maclean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop. We are fated mates. You can listen to us every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. So if you want to spend some time with us and talk about speculative romance and talk about what it's doing or recommend other books that you think are doing it really well, please let us know and join our Patreon, which you can [e-mail] faded mates. That gets you out access to one extra episode of the podcast every month. And also to our faded mates, Discord, where people are talking about romance all the time. If you want to follow us on Instagram or on Threads, you can do that at Faded Maids Pod or on [e-mail] I am doing nothing for the rest of the summer. But Jen, do you have anything going on?

[B]

No.

[A]

August? No. We're both doing nothing for the rest.

[B]

That's my whole plan.

[A]

I don't know. Invite Jen to do something, I guess. Maybe she'll say yes. Anyway, that's that. We hope that, you know you enjoyed by now. The World Cup's over, so we hope you enjoyed however that netted itself out. And yeah, Nixon 5. I guess

[B]

that already happened.

[A]

All right. Farewell, my friends. Take care of yourselves.