S08.46: Photographers in Romance

Summary

Fated Mates S08.46 – Photographers in Romance
August 5, 2026
Co-hosts: Sarah MacLean and Jennifer (Jen) Prokop

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Episode Overview

Sarah and Jen take a deep dive into the world of photographers in romance novels, exploring why the profession is such a compelling and sexy choice for romance heroes and heroines. They analyze the different types of photographer characters (from photojournalists to wedding photographers), what makes photography such fertile ground for character development and romantic tension, and share a lively list of recommended novels across subgenres. The conversation is peppered with both personal stories and sharp insights about the gaze, artistry, and transformative power of seeing and being seen in love stories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lure of Photography as a Romance Profession

• Accessibility and Familiarity: Everyone has used a camera, which bridges the artist/subject gap and adds relatability.
• The “Gaze” and Sexiness: Photographers are observers – capable of truly “seeing” their subject, which translates into intimacy and heat in romance (24:22).
  • Sarah: "Here's a person who notices, who sees every single part of you and still finds you, like, perfect, beautiful, wonderful, worthy of love." (23:38)
• Artistry and Truth: Using a camera is about both artistry and truth-telling; the photograph as a moment of truth can be intensely romantic (24:39).
• Versatility: A photographer can be adventurous (journalist/nature photographer) or anchored in the community (wedding/crime scene photographer), allowing for a wide range of stories and conflicts.

2. Types of Photographers in Romance

• Adventure/Journalist Photographers: Risk-takers, often carrying trauma, are “tortured souls” whose job requires them to bear witness to pain and beauty (20:13).
• Personal/Event Photographers: Tied to small business or the personal milestones of others (e.g., weddings).
• Crime Scene/Forensic Photographers: Bring romantic suspense elements and the tension of confronting harsh truths.
• Art Photographers: Allow for heightened sensuality and are often vehicles for themes of the artistic gaze and mutual vulnerability.

3. The Romance Function of Photography

• Observation and Transformation: The ability to observe and reveal the subject’s true self forms a parallel with the arc of romance: self-consciousness turning into confidence, self-love sparked by being intimately seen by another (25:02).
• Chekhov’s Camera: If a camera is introduced, it should contribute to the plot/romantic tension, whether through a revealing photoshoot or a pivotal image (22:41).
• Voyeurism and Intimacy: The act of photographing becomes a stand-in for desire and a safe site for exploring vulnerability and sometimes kink, but isn't always explicitly voyeuristic (23:23).

4. Standout “Photographer in Romance” Novels & Scenes

Below are discussed books, notable moments, and selected quotes from the hosts, with key timestamps.

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Book Recs & Notable Insights

(Titles linked to notable discussions; timestamps in MM:SS)

A Duke Worth Falling For by Sarah MacLean

• Sarah’s pandemic novella: Lila, a disgraced portrait photographer, finds love and healing at a British estate with a 'shepherd' who's secretly a duke.
• Art as healing and sensuality: Includes romantic scenes where photographing the hero becomes foreplay.
• Sarah: “I think there’s something to the fact that… the job I chose [for my first contemporary] was photographer. I just think it’s hot.” (29:58)

Best of Luck by Kate Claiborne

(32:20–38:12)

• Hero as war photographer; heroine learning photography.
• Standout scene: Greer (heroine) learns to photograph a ladybug, guided physically and emotionally by Alex.
• Jen: “Putting this instrument in her hands… the eye is the first photographer. It’s really sexy.” (36:19)

Chase Me If You Can by Heather Francis

(39:33–45:52)

• Storm chasers rivals-to-lovers: Heroine is a wedding photographer who storms chases; hero is her legendary rival.
• Notable for slow-burn heat, photography as shared obsession, and competitive intimacy.
• Sarah: “I had a great time reading this. It’s very sexy… If you like the cover, you’re gonna like the book.” (45:10)

Lay It Down by Cara McKenna

(47:47–57:35)

• Construction site/landscape photographer + ex-con hero.
• Scene: Hero takes heroine on his motorcycle at dawn to the perfect sunlit spot, respecting her art and awe.
• Jen: “The well-mannered men in her lives do not respect her art… this local yokel is the one who… shows her the beauty of this place.” (54:06)

My Dirty Duke by Joanna Shupe

(57:35–63:12)

• Victorian novella; heroine obsessed with photographing her father’s best friend, the Duke.
• Classic age-gap, forbidden love; uses photography as an instrument of both seduction and observation.
• Sarah: "Photography allows writers to slow down the observation — linger on all the little sexy bits and not make it feel self-indulgent.” (62:16)

To the Ends of the Earth (The Danvers Touch) by Elizabeth Lowell

(63:17–74:27)
Warning: problematic alpha hero, vintage old-school vibes – read at your own peril

• Photographer heroine, misjudged by hero, suffers and eventually transforms him.
• Iconic scene: Hero tries to buy heroine off with a check; she burns it. (68:01)
• Jen: “He has to really become the man she sees.” (70:20)

Taming Teddy by Lucy Lennox

(75:03–80:44)

• MM romance: Wildlife biologist in Alaska and persistent travel photographer fall in love amidst bears and blizzards.
• Uses photographing the hero in his element as slow-burn courtship.
• “Teddy’s last name is Kodiak.” [laughter] (79:31)

Flight by Laura Griffin

(80:51–88:05)

• Romantic suspense: Burned-out crime scene photographer heroine helps solve a murder on a Texas island.
• Combines romantic suspense with art as catharsis.
• Jen: “Photography… an instrument to discover the truth… but also something dangerous or harmful… she's seeing the horror.” (85:35)

Three Dirty Secrets by Nikki Sloane

(88:10–94:24)

• Erotic romance: Undercover FBI agent heroine is drawn into intimate, charged photography sessions with a tattoo artist.
• Standout: The photo shoot scene brims with sexual tension and agency.
• Sarah: “Using the camera to create intimacy… instill a barrier… you are vibrating with them through the scene.” (91:49)

Managed by Kristen Callihan

(94:33–98:13; “Scotty”)

• Hero is a band manager; heroine is a photographer who unearths his vulnerabilities.
• Famous for the “can only sleep when together” trope, and a climactic scene where she photographs him as a form of both seeing and seduction.
• Jen: “If that’s the vibe you’re looking for, she sees right through him. He has no defenses.” (94:33)
• Sarah: “A way of both distancing herself and, at the same time, an I SEE YOU moment.” (98:12)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the essential romance of photography:
  Sarah: “If there’s a camera on page, it should get sexy. That’s Chekhov’s camera.” (22:41)
• On the power dynamic of the lens:
  Jen: “It's the watchfulness... that’s why the books are sexy. Not actually about the sex.” (24:53)
• On writing old-school alpha heroes:
  Sarah: “I question Elizabeth’s life. Are you okay? ...I would be hard pressed to come up with men worse than the ones [Elizabeth Lowell] writes.” (71:35)
• On transformation in romance:
  Sarah: “For me, it feels like both characters should have to transform. If only one character is transforming, then why the fuck is it the woman? Like, we’re fine. It’s them who have to be different.” (74:20)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 12:29 — Introduction to episode theme and why photographers?
• 18:12–25:56 — What makes photography “a good romance job”? Types and narrative function
• 26:02–45:52 — Book discussion: Sarah’s novella, Kate Claiborne, Heather Francis (storm chasers)
• 47:47–63:12 — Romantic suspense, vintage romance (Cara McKenna, Joanna Shupe, Elizabeth Lowell)
• 75:03–94:24 — MM romance, more suspense, and erotic romance (Lucy Lennox, Laura Griffin, Nikki Sloane)
• 94:33–98:13 — Managed by Kristen Callihan (“Scotty” the classic photographer romance hero)
• 98:38–end — Final thoughts; encouragement for listeners to share their fave photographer romances

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Episode Tone & Takeaway

Lively, witty, and just a bit indulgent in escapist fantasy – as always, Sarah and Jen weave critical analysis and book recs with a warm, confessional style. They celebrate the romance genre’s flexibility and its ability to use professions like photography to escalate both internal and external stakes, build sexual and emotional tension, and explore the truth of seeing—and being seen—in love.

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For further information and show notes (including the full book list), visit fatedmates.net.

Join the conversation: Listeners are invited to share their favorite photographer-in-romance novels with the hosts on Patreon, Instagram, Threads (@fatedmatespod), or fatedmates.net.

Transcript

[Jennifer Prokop]

90%. Sarah, you're a right angle.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm a. Oh, I am a right. Nobody wants to hear about my stupid leg. I'm so bored by my leg, everybody. I went to the surgeon. I have my three week checkup.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm allowed.

[Sarah McLean]

Have you tried bending your legs with 90 degrees? That's pretty great. Everyone, like just what a feeling. Just enjoy the fact that if your leg bends to 90 degrees, have a great time doing that today because it really is a tremendous thing. Anyway, I'm still off this leg for three more weeks, which.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That this feels punishing. Sure.

[Sarah McLean]

For everyone in my life. It's kind of punishing because it's sort of like yesterday my daughter was in my was. I was like writing. I can only basically move. I move from my office to my bedroom. Like, this is basically my whole life your path. And she was in my bedroom yesterday and I said something and she said, you know, I do so much for you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I was like, I only have one leg. And it was all very emotional.

[Sarah McLean]

And I could hear Eric's eyes rolling in the other room.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like these good for drama. For not being like, I gave birth to you. I mean that would have been.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, I spent a lot of time feeling like, do you know how many things I've picked up off the floor of your.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, God, yes. How many times did I wipe that ass? Come on.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, luckily she doesn't have to do

[Jennifer Prokop]

that for me, but no.

[Sarah McLean]

Anyway, so that's, you know, the update on Sarah's leg. But other than that, it's August, which seems.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't really want to talk about it.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm really disgusted by it, to be honest.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, the thing about teaching everybody is that like, well, at least you know, in Chicago, it really is like we have time off in, you know, all three months or whatever, Right. June, July and August, the way it runs. And so like June is always like the best. And then like July 1st comes and you're like, oh, first part is over, you know, but it always seems to like last long. Like, I don't know, like, it's like, remember when you were young or maybe you were still young and you're out at the club and like the first hour's so great. Everyone's just vibing and having a great time. And then like July is sort of like the crash out time. It's coming, you know, like it's all going way too fast and you can tell a fight's brewing. And then it's like August 1st comes and I just am like, Sunday scaries all day. Where did it all go? I mean, literally one of. We have a group text with some of my friends and one of. And Amy just texted everybody and she was like, everybody, I've been waking up past seven all this summer. How am I gonna do it now? We don't have to start getting up at 7 for weeks.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, but no, but it's. Everybody has to.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sunday scaries. Yeah. It's time to start mourning. So anyway, I'm in the morning.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, it's interesting because so we have obviously school. I just think it's interesting because I think there are two kinds of people in the world. I think there are people who think of January as the beginning and there are people who think of September as the beginning.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And for me, I don't think I'll ever not think of September as like, that's the start.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, and yeah, I mean, and I think, like, for me, obviously. Right. But I mean, I think. I think for people that have like day jobs where it's like the fiscal year or whatever, you know what I mean? But I think if you're like, I have.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, I don't have a job.

[Sarah McLean]

That's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But I think that's why. That's my point.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I'm allowed to have that. Like, we. I have had a job. Of course you have had a job. I just mean. So your, like, kids schedule and I mean.

[Sarah McLean]

But it also just feels that like F. Scott Fitzgerald, like, everything is new and crisp in the fall and you're

[Jennifer Prokop]

like, I believe it. I agree.

[Sarah McLean]

It just feels like time to put on that, like, you know, all your,

[Jennifer Prokop]

like, when Harem and sari, bouquet of newly sharpened pencils.

[Sarah McLean]

Sarah. There you go. I was gonna say you're. You're.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You're.

[Sarah McLean]

When Harry Met Sally clothes, but I'll take that too. Anyway, so that's what's happening here. We're just living the dream.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And.

[Sarah McLean]

And. Yeah. What else going on?

[Jennifer Prokop]

What?

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, wait, I did something. What did I do?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't know. You bent your leg to 890 degrees. That's all I knew about.

[Sarah McLean]

Jen, have you seen the preview for Wicker?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sarah, listen, I. All I need to tell you is that, like, I put on both Instagram, not Instagram, on, like, Threads and Blue sky, like our, like, sentient object thing and was basically like, if, you know, you know, everybody would tell us.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, I don't know, you would have to be living under a rock at this point because I feel like the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The Internet exploded with it.

[Sarah McLean]

Because it is going to be. Here's the thing. Hollywood thinks that they have created a very, like, sort of niche movie. What they don't understand is they've created, like, move aside, Black Panther. Wicker is about to be the biggest movie that has ever.

[Jennifer Prokop]

The opening weekend of all time.

[Sarah McLean]

So the premise here is, it is the past. Olivia Colman asks Peter Dinklage to make her a husband, and he makes her Alexander Skarsgard out of Wicker. And then they break a bed twice. And now if you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And he fixes it, he probably just weaves it all back together.

[Sarah McLean]

Listen, here's the crazy thing. There is. I had no idea that there was a movie that was so perfectly made for me as this one.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. I will tell you, this is not going to be a movie for me.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, no. I'm going to see this movie probably more than once.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I did. I would have to have, like, 23 people I trust a lot be like, yes, you would really like this. These tend to be movies for me that I just am like, I will read this in a book all day long, but I don't. I don't need to see it. Speaking of our, like, our topic today, I don't need to see that. Yeah, I'm just gonna let that happen.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm 100% going to see it, everybody. And I can't wait. I literally put it on the calendar. I secured my dates for it. I texted the three people I knew would want to go see it with me, and that's that. But I honestly, like, first of all, what a logline. Olivia Colman asks Peter Dinklage to make her a husband, and it's Alexander Skarsgard in Wicker.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, I support everybody.

[Sarah McLean]

Listen, if I wanted a husband made for me, Alexander Skarsgard in Wicker would not be too far afield. Anyway, everybody, I hope you're all as delighted and excited as I am. I'll see you on opening weekend.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Mr. Reid's romance and I went to the NBA WNBA All Star game, which was.

[Sarah McLean]

I know. You were famous.

[Jennifer Prokop]

We were famous because we were. Okay, I'm gonna tell this story. We were. We had, like, good seats kind of, like down in the lower bowl, but, like, kind of pretty far down from like, where, like, where we'd kind of normally sit and which is like, more like in the. You know, like, mid court. And it turned out that we were, like, in this amazing section one is there was, like, a huge stage where they, like, come out on the stage, and we were, like, right there in front of it, basically, because we were at the end. But then also, like, the. A singer named Tyla was the mid. You know, the halftime act. And kind of in the first quarter, like, all the people from the wnba, all these people wearing, like, you know, badges, were like, okay, Tyler's gonna be coming through here. So, like, when. So essentially it was like, if you are going to go get something at halftime, you have to do it before halftime because then she's gonna be coming down, like, this aisle to get to the court and, like, be singing. And so, like, you have to be in your seat. And then if you're not, we're gonna have everybody else, like, moving down so there doesn't look like they're empty seats. And I mean, it was honestly over the top. It was like every five minutes, people were like, stay in your seat. And we were like, yes, we fucking know we're gonna stay in. I mean, it was just like, super funny. And then when she was coming down and of course, meanwhile, like, listen, I'm going to really date myself. We did not know who she was, right? So he was like, what's her name? Nyla. And I was like, I don't know, Kyla. Like, we were being ridiculous. So anyway, she comes down and she's like, singing and.

[Sarah McLean]

And she's very young.

[Jennifer Prokop]

She's very young. Like, barely even beautiful. I think she's. She's a newborn foal, everybody. And she. Yeah, I mean, she literally is like 20, I think. And anyway, it was so funny because Mr. Reid's romance was right on the aisle. Cause, you know, he was right there and so he had his phone out to sort of, like, sort of be capturing her. But he had it, like, sort of turned around so he could, like, put himself in it.

[Sarah McLean]

You could see his face.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, right. And she's, like, coming down the aisle and, like, sees his phone. Everyone had their phone out, but she, like, stops and, like, gets right into his phone and was singing. And then the thing that was really funny is both of our phones were sort of, like, blowing up with, like, people who were watching, who were like, I just saw you on tv. My friend Earl Lynn was like, jennifer, I just saw you on TV having a moment with Tyla. And I was like, was I the one having a moment? I think that was Mr. Reid's romance. So anyway, and then he got a text from someone he works with. Who? Actually, this woman. I don't. Never met her. Her name's Ann, but she's my arch neme in his. In his he holds like a NCAA brackets and this woman is the one who's beating me. And I'm always like, oh, Anne. So I was like, of course Anne

[Sarah McLean]

was watching, but very funny.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So we never saw the. Her version. You know, we never saw, like, the broadcast version. I have no idea what it looked like to anybody watching at home.

[Sarah McLean]

But we saw Tyla singing into someone's phone.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That was.

[Sarah McLean]

That was Mr. Reed's romance. Everyone. You can get a little glimpse into the Reed's romance universe.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, funny. I did put my version on in or his version on. I know my Instagram.

[Sarah McLean]

And there is a great photograph of the two of you also where there's. You're being creeped on.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah. Some guy behind us is just like, what are you doing? Like, shut up.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm married.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's not going to be All Star Game.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm always really, like, impressed by people who, like, unabashedly stare at the camera when other people are taking selfies. I'm always like, don't perceive me. Like, I'm like, contorting myself to get out of the way. But, like, if you're just right there behind and you stare into the camera, like, listen, I have to. I have to appreciate it. Like the. I have to appreciate the whole vibe there.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. The other really funny thing is, like, because we were so close, there was a woman behind us. There were two women in the row behind us who were, like, beautiful in ways that normal people are not. I mean, I'm just gonna say that just like, not. You're not normal. Beautiful.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And one woman was actually some, like, a broadcaster. Like, Daryl's like, I know this woman. She's been on a lot of things. Like, he was like, I'm not sure if it's ESPN or. Or like a more local kind of broadcast, but he recognized her. And then, like, kind of down like a little bit again. This insanely beautiful woman. And it turns out it's Sidney Taylor, who is like one of our rookies this year on the Sky. And of course she's like, every time I see her, she's like, in, like, basketball gear, right? So her hair's really pulled back. And I mean, she's really obviously a pretty woman, but, you know, I was like, oh, you're just like, how unfair. I'm sorry. You are that beautiful and good at basketball. Where's the justice?

[Sarah McLean]

Where's your flaw, huh?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Where's your.

[Sarah McLean]

Why don't you get one?

[Jennifer Prokop]

I got all of yours. Fine. So anyway, and it was funny because

[Sarah McLean]

I Mean, she probably doesn't know a thing about romance novels.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Sydney, they're the best. I'll send you anyway. It was really fun.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, everybody, welcome to Faded mates. I'm Sarah McLean. I read romance novels and I write them.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor. And Sarah, we have a fun topic today suggested by you.

[Sarah McLean]

Hi. Because I was reading a book, I thought to myself, see everybody, we're coming up on the end of season eight. And usually what happens at the end of season eight is of a season is we like have a last couple of episodes and then we do a read along of one of my books. But I don't have a book out this year. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So we're gonna do a Rogue by another name.

[Sarah McLean]

So we're gonna do a Rogue by any other name. And then we. We sort of like take a few weeks off. Yeah, you. You don't get. I. I don't know if you get an episode. You might get an episode or not get an episode, but we try to take a few weeks off. And so. But usually when we get to the end here, we're like, what are we going to do? Also because I'm writing. I have a book due in September and so. And that's always tricky. And then it's the beginning of school. So, like, we try to keep the next couple of like weeks, months, two months, like kind of free.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Kind of easy. Like an easy for us means you suggest a topic and we can instantly both come up with a bunch of books and make. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like I'm reading for it.

[Sarah McLean]

It's an off the top of your head kind of idea. This is because we actually do have a couple of episodes that we try to do right. At the end of the. Or one episode specifically that we try to do every end of the year. And that is new historicals. And so that does require a ton of reading. Um, so we try to do. So that becomes like the thing that we've done a ton of reading on. And so we sort of throw out a bunch of. We're gonna actually do two episodes this week and next week that will be episodes that I picked because they are. They were easy to come. Come off.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

The dome, so to speak. So as you all know, like this Jen says she. She didn't get any of Sidney's talents. But like I said, you know, Sydney, probably can't name five books featuring photographers, like, in under two minutes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And if you can, Sydney, I don't want to hear about it.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, then, I mean, then she's obviously like, that's. She's just blessed in every way by the gods. And so. So that's really. Where we are is like. I was reading a book. It is about a photographer. One of the characters is a photo. Actually, both of the characters in that book, which I will talk about, are photographers. And. And then I was like, wait a second. Photography is a really hot. It's a very sexy profession.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's a good romance job. It's an. I always talk about what makes something a good romance job.

[Sarah McLean]

Like, yeah. And it feels like it is a. It's a profession that, like, I have a lot of feelings about this because I actually think that there are. I think there are a couple of things that are, like, hardwired, like, into me about photographers. One, and then I think there is this sort of, like, the gaze of it all that makes it very hot. And so. And like, literally, I was reading this book and I was thinking to myself, like, this is really entertaining. Like, yeah, I really enjoy this. I've written a photographer, too, so maybe I'm, like, predisposed to, like, be interested in this. But it like. And then I was like, you know what? There are a lot of great sexy romance novels that feature cameras, photographers, etc. So I texted you, and you were like, yeah, okay. And then, like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, because I did the thing where I was like, yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, sure.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. Well, we did the thing where you were like, do I have. I read books with photographers. And then I was like, you have. And then I listed, like, a bunch. You were like, oh, yeah, okay.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And. Oh, yeah, I got all those. Most importantly, Jen is going to talk about one of her favorite romance novels of all time. Because anytime we get a chance to talk about Scotty, we talk about Scotty.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode of Fate Inmates is brought to you by Harper Collins, publishers of Sophie Irwin's how to Lose a Lord in 10 days.

[Sarah McLean]

So this is an adorable concept. Rich, handsome, entitled Lord Ashford has every woman in England looking to secure his hand in marriage. Everyone, that is, except for Lydia Hanworth, who is the only young woman that Ashford wishes to marry. Unfortunately, you can't just toss a lord out the window or anything. You could. And Lydia ends up being pressured into accepting Ashford's proposal by her family, with the understanding that the announcement must be kept secret for 10 days, giving her 10 days in order to free herself from the obligations of this marriage before the engagement is publicly announced. Now, she needs to do this very carefully because she could ruin her reputation pretty, like, squarely if she does this. But she believes in herself and she is ready to do everything she can to kick this man directly out of her life. I don't think it's gonna go the way Lydia expects, though.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I think you're right. But I can't wait to find out what is going to happen to Lydia. So if you would like to to check it out, it is available in print, audio, and with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. If your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to HarperCollins and Sophie Irwin for sponsoring this week's episode. People interact with it in a, like, all the time, but don't need to know anything about how the actual work goes.

[Sarah McLean]

Right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right. So it's like we've all been moved by beautiful photography. Well, like, you know, before the age of AI ruined everything. And, you know, and so, like, we've all had that experience of just like, sort of wondering, like, how does someone, you know, how does someone do this or capture this or. Right. So, I mean, I think, like, in that sense, like, if I just said to you, like, oh, you know, I mean, like, the whole joke and Rio or Die is like, the movie is that Hannah Monaghan is really an assassin and she tells everyone she's a forensic accountant. Because as soon as she says that, people are just like, you know, like, you don't want to know anymore. It's so boring. But I think photography is like, the opposite. Right. Instead, you're like, oh, that's so interesting.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, it does, because it feels. It feels like you're an artist, but also it's not an art that's, like, difficult to. It's not an art that's difficult to kind of feel like you can understand. Because we all walk around with. We've all engaged with cameras before.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right? Right. And, you know, I mean, none, you know, we all know that means we're not photographers, but we all at least get, like, the very human urge to, like, capture something. Right. So I think, like, that, in that sense, I think it just is, like, that's what makes it a good romance job also, you know, then this person is, like, not tied to an office. And you know what I mean? It's a good romance job, too, because whatever the work is, it's just like what the book needs it to be. It is not like, taking up a lot of space or airtime. You there's not a lot of fossils in photography, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

[Sarah McLean]

Did you ever. I. I just need to bring up. Up close and personal. Did you ever watch that? Now listen, this is not. He is not a photographer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

They.

[Sarah McLean]

He is a. Like a wartime journalist.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Yeah. Well that's. Yeah, I'm gonna talk about that.

[Sarah McLean]

And like. And this is where I'm like okay, obviously photographer. So there are a couple of different types of photographers in romance. There are lots of different photographers in the world.

[Jennifer Prokop]

In romance. In romance.

[Sarah McLean]

There are like only there are very specific groups of photographers.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

So there are like. Like adventure photographers, like nature photographers, like journalists.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

Like people who travel the globe and take pictures and their pictures end up on national.

[Jennifer Prokop]

National or whatever. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

And those photographers are obviously sexy for a very particular reason and that is because of the button that was installed in me by the Robert Redford Michelle Pfeiffer film Up Close and Personal where she's a telephone television journalist. And he is like a wartime correspondent.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's a tortured soul. Sarah.

[Sarah McLean]

I know. And he's. And he's also just like he's a risk taker. He will do anything for the.

[Jennifer Prokop]

For the. Whatever the right shot. Of course the right shot and.

[Sarah McLean]

Or the. You know, the story and.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, that's true. Love it. And like that like the torture soul part of it. Right. Like you've seen some things.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

If you're that one. I think there's. Then there's like the sort of more like bridal photographer. Right. The of sort is essentially like the. You know like their subject is. Is. Is more personal and it's also then like a small business owner. Right. Like that person often. And then I think like the other one is at least I have one. Is like I think or maybe it's not as big but I just happen to come across it like I have someone that's like a romantic suspense. Like she's a one. She does it for the cops. She's a crime scene investigator photographer.

[Sarah McLean]

Actually I just looked at the Wikipedia description of up close and personal and it's not exactly what I remember in

[Jennifer Prokop]

my head but he.

[Sarah McLean]

There is war correspondencing in here and it is Robert Redford who goes to this war torn place. So. But you know, if you were yelling at your. At your. Your headphones then I apologize. But you know what? I rewrite as romance novels in my head and so you just have to forgive me for that. And anyway, so then there is. And then there are like. Like people who Are like, there are artists.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, Right. This is their medium. Yeah. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

And. And they are. That's, like, where it really tends to get pretty sexy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, it's. Listen, if there's a camera on page, there's like, it should get sexy. That's like Chekhov's camera.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You would think so. But, you know, one of the funny things, at least in the ones I was reading this time around is I did not. I felt like I read a lot where it was just straight up, like, no, I'm, you know, I'm just a photographer and I was kind of like, you think there'd be more voyeurism in this one? Just like, you know, like. But I do think that, like, that is like a kink and photography is a job, and so they don't always,

[Sarah McLean]

like, go that way, even if it's not like that. Like, I mean, and I do have two. Where it is like that, but even if it's not like that, what I want there to be is I want there to be a moment where a photograph is taken and it, like, tells the truth.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes.

[Sarah McLean]

And I think that's the, like, money in. In putting a photographer in a romance novel is like, two things. One, it's observation, right. It's like, here's a person who notices, who sees, who can, like, who can see, like, every single part of you and still find you, like, every flaw that you have and still find you, like, perfect, beautiful, wonderful, worthy of love. And two, it's about, like. It's about the actual sort of sense of like, artistry of the body. Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Like, the.

[Sarah McLean]

The awareness of, like, how it, like, photography and romance has to feel. Like these people understand beauty in like, a really. In a way the rest of us normies don't.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

And also it has to feel like truth. Like, you know, you get one shot at like, the most true piece of a person and like, a photographer is able to. To do that for you.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. No, so I would agree. And I think that's why the books are sexy. It's not actually about, like, the sex. It's. It's that the. The watchfulness. Right?

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. And I mean, there's like. And the ones where they actually do pose for the photographer, like, he. He or she takes photo. They take photographs, photos of the other person. There's always a kind of like, the self consciousness that turns into confidence, is a really, like, clear track of like, romance itself. Right. Like moving you to a place where you are confident and love yourself by virtue of having found Love, like, in other ways.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I actually read a couple or started a couple where it was just, like, romance job. And I, like, immediately stopped those. I was like, I have to do ones where, like, the ones I want to talk about are the ones where, like, the work of. The work of the photographer is, like, the work they're doing as a person. The work of falling in love. The work of the book. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It has to be just, like, tied together in some really clear way.

[Sarah McLean]

I agree. I did that, too. So you start, because I think you have one more than I do.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, before we. Let's talk about your book. Since you mentioned it, let's talk about a duke worth falling for.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, yes. So this was my first contemporary, and I wrote it during.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it's like a novella, right?

[Sarah McLean]

It's a novella. I wrote it during the summer of. The first summer of the pandemic, because I was in chaos. And I was like, what am I gonna do? And then I wrote this, like, for fun. And the main character, Lila, I think her name is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It is.

[Sarah McLean]

It is a photographer. And she's been through, like. I think this is the closest thing I probably will ever get to, like, a category. Like, she's been through, like, kind of like Harvey Weinstein MeToo situation where she was, like, at the top of her game. Like, the biggest portrait photographer in the world had, like, taken pictures of the most famous or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And she gets, like, asked to do. To take pictures of this, like, terrible man, and it turns out that he, like, tries to sexually assault her, and she takes off and he ruins her career. And basically, like, she can't sell another cover. Like, she can't get a job. So she decides she's gonna go around the world and, like, take pictures of people doing, like, remarkable things in their communities. And she ends up just on this, like, kind of licking her wounds on a British estate where she meets a farmer, a shepherd,

[Jennifer Prokop]

which she thinks is a shepherd.

[Sarah McLean]

Sarah, she thinks, because he's a secret duke, everyone.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And they, like, Sarah's, like, secret baby.

[Sarah McLean]

They fall hard for each other. And I just gave you sort of, like, all the backstory that doesn't actually start the book. So I don't even know how to talk about this thing. I don't think I ever talked about it ever, because I just put it out and that was that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, it was a strange time.

[Sarah McLean]

And so anyway. But it begins. The book begins with her taking pictures on his estate, and he thinks that she is the press because he's a secret Duke. And she's like, why the fuck would I want to take pictures of you?

[Jennifer Prokop]

You farmer. You're hot. But, yeah, well. And I think, like, the other thing is, like, of course he's out in the country. And, like, what I remember is, like, then she. There's like a. Of course, right? When it's. You're an artist, it's like, you know, she has a show, like, right. The opportunity to do a show, and then it's kind of like, well, then what? You know, do I leave him here? You know, I'm gonna be about to be pulled back into the world that he's turned away from. What shall I do?

[Sarah McLean]

And he, like, he's divorced because he was married. His first wife, like, who is very decent person, but, like, his first wife was like, I want London. I want, like. I want the life, like the paparazzi. I want the noise. And he was like, I hate that. I just want, like, my farm in the. You know, my estate in the. In the country. And. But they bang a lot, and they, like, you know, she takes pictures of him at the top of a folly, and then they. You know, as I said to Jen earlier, it really writes itself, so. And then there is, like, the climactic bit of it is, like, there's a. You know, her photographs are being used for a, you know, big event, and then there's, you know, a justifiable face punching and a reveal of a secret duke. And you never told me who you really were and all that good stuff.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

Anyway, so that's a duke worth falling for. And I liked. And here's the thing. Like, I. I think it was my first contemporary. I think there's something to the fact that, like, it was my first contemporary and the job I chose was photographer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, Was photographer. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

I don't know anything about photography, though, and me neither. I just. I just think it's hot. I think it's.

[Jennifer Prokop]

You know, I think.

[Sarah McLean]

You know what I like. And this will be a good segue, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay.

[Sarah McLean]

You know what I like? I like a man who has, like, an old bag that's full of, like, it's been around the world and is full of his stuff. And also his, like, Nikon. That's what I like. I like him to, like, listen, he definitely has back problems as he gets older from the weight of this bag, but I don't care. Maybe it's, like, rucksack, but maybe it's, like, just really weathered leather. Like, I don't know what it's made of, but like when he walks into a room, his jeans are like, you know, threadbare in all the right places. And he's just like, so seen. Seen some stuff. Sure.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Seen the world.

[Sarah McLean]

And then Kate Claiborne wrote that exact bag. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by E. Kennedy, author of a YA small town thriller. And E. Kennedy is L. Kennedy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Well, exactly. You might not need to know anything more than that. So in this thriller, we have Ryan Shipley. She's our main character. And it has been 10 years since her father, the infamous serial killer Gabriel Thorne, was caught. And now she is back in her hometown of Starling, Tennessee. But she's trying to lay low, like no one can know who she is or kind of the truth about her past. But once she's there, she's like, there's like sort of fresh eyes digging deeper into this case, into his history. And old secrets are refusing to stay buried. We've got cryptic texts, eerie coincidences, and a chilling note leaving everyone wondering, does Ryan know more than she's letting on? As the truth unravels, travels, one thing becomes clear. In a town full of secrets, Ryan might be the biggest mystery of them all.

[Sarah McLean]

Well, if you love a YA small town thriller, this one just might be for you. You can get Thornbird right now in print, ebook or audiobook. And if your podcast app supports it, you can click on the chapter title to be taken for more information. Thanks so much to eat Kennedy for sponsoring this week's episode.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Kate's third book in her lottery series. This is called Best of Luck. And this actually it was like the first book of Kate's I ever read, and I was like, oh, God, this is amazing. And so in this book, what happens is like the sort of setup of the series is that these three friends have won the lottery and it's like enough to change their lives in a small way, like an important way, but not like gazillions of dollars. And so they each do something different with it. And Greer, who it's like she's the third, has used it to essentially go back to college, even though she's in her, like, kind of like mid to late 20s and sort of feels like, you know, she'd like, missed it, but now she has the money and she can, like, go back to school and she's just gonna, like, speed run it, right? Like, essentially the whole goal is just do it as fast as possible. She's not looking to have like the college experience. She's looking to, like, get the degree, to get the job she wants. And so at the beginning of the book, she finds out that she is like kind of essentially like one credit short, kind of. She had accidentally taken like sort of art history classes, but one needed to be studio art. And it turns out that Kit, one of her friends brother Alex, is a world class, world famous photographer. And she like. And he is, he comes back like. The book essentially begins with Kit's wedding and Greer wants to be a social worker. And she sees that Alex is essentially having panic attacks. I mean he. Because he is a war photographer, right? He is out there photographing things that most people just. There's this great line, it's like turn like won't even watch on the evening news, right? So he's not just like sort of like noticing things, he's witnessing things, right? And it's very much like something he's carrying with him. And he doesn't want Kit to know how this is impacting him, but his boss has sort of figured it out and is kind of like, you know, where I'm gonna not give you some jobs for a while. And Greer essentially is like, well, maybe you can stick around and like, in order to kind of get in good with the guy who is gonna have to like, let me take this class, I'm gonna like bring you to him and you're gonna help me learn to be a photographer. And you know, I think the thing about it's really funny because I reread the beginning. You know, I think obviously Kate's so good and at the job and there's this whole part about how like Greer is a person who knows how to watch, right? She's watchful.

[Sarah McLean]

She's already a photographer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, right. And then it's like putting this instrument in her hands and one of like my, like in terms of like one of the things I also wanted to think is like what is like the kind of really memorable like scene of photography in the book, right? Where it really comes in. And in this case it's like for me, I really remembered it and I reread it today before we recorded is they're out walking in the woods and Greer is like has the idea of like taking photographs of a ladybug. And Alex is sort of like, okay, well it's small, you know, and they're like walking through and he's sort of like talking to her about like kind of like, what are these plants? And what do you want it to look like? And you know, she has this moment of realizing like, oh, your cameras, whatever your Equipment is. Is just duplicating what your eye is looking at. Right? The eye is the best first photographer. Right. And it's this great scene where she's sort of sitting and he's like, you know, make yourself a tripod. And he's, like, behind her, and then he kind of pushes her closer. And it's just. Honestly, a really. It is really sexy. Right?

[Sarah McLean]

Because he is.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And then he sort of helps her kind of steady herself, like. Right. He's helping her be the tripod. And, you know, and it's this great moment, too, I think, for Greer, like, you really get how in, like, right, she's calling the ladybug her. Right. She's really connecting to it. And, you know, and I think. And then, like, he pushes her, and then it, like, flies away, and she's, like, kind of upset about it. Like, she's gone now, you know? And I think for me, the thing about this, like, this scene in particular, like, kind of why it was so memorable, is it takes, like, the art of photography really seriously. Yes. But I also think it's, like, teaching her something about how to do the work. Right. In a way that isn't about. There is, like, one kind of, like, where he's like, what's your shutter speed? Or whatever? You know? But, like, that's not. It's not, like, about the equipment. Right. It's about you seeing.

[Sarah McLean]

And I.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's. You know, I think the other thing that's really great about this book is, you know, they both have, like, the same, like, therapist. And, you know, he's really working through, like, what he has seen. And I think, like, the whole idea that, like, if you are bearing witness, that can be incredibly traumatizing. Like, that's a weight that you have to carry. Yeah. And it's not enough to just share your photographs. Like, you saw it with your real eye. Everyone else is seeing it through the pages of, like, a magazine or the news or whatever. And so I think, like, what that costs. Alix is also really fascinating. And then just sort of this question of, like, how's this gonna change? Like, the friendship group? And, you know, Greer is really grounded where they are, and Alix is, like, traveling the world, and would he be happy staying? And, I mean, it has a lot of really good, like, interpersonal conflict without it being, like, dramatic, you know, sort of conflict. It's a great book.

[Sarah McLean]

So one of the things I really like about that exact part of the book, of that book is, like, in the next scene, they're in a Coffee shop. And he's looking through the photograph. Like, they're looking through the photographs on her iPad or, like they're going through them or whatever. And they realize, like, you know, she goes through the picture and she sees, like, how good she is, like, how good the photographs came out, how great they are. And she sort of likes the ones where the ladybug is, like, sitting. And then as they keep flipping, she sees, you know, the blur of when he touches her. And then she sees the one where the ladybug is flying away. And it's so beautiful. And also it's like, you know, it's like, foreshadowing. There's, like, all sorts of Kate Claiborne stuff going on here, too. But one of the things that I think is interesting about that is, like, there is always this kind of. I think in a lot of these books that include photography, there is this kind of sense of, like, it's worth the wait. Like, the shot is worth the wait.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Right.

[Sarah McLean]

And I think that that made me think all of this is to say that, like, my book, the book that I want to talk about is called Chase Me if youf can by Heather Francis. And it just came out in June, and probably we should have talked about it, or I could have talked about it on the storm episode, but I hadn't read it yet. So here we are, and I have read it now. And this one is about storm chasers. And the heroine of this book, Sloane, she is a wedding photographer for Cash, and she spends all her year shooting weddings to be able to take one month off every summer to storm chase and take pictures out in the wilds of America of storms. And the tea up here is really great. She. The conceit is that there. There are. And I don't think this is a conceit. I think, like, you know, it's the community of storm chasers who all kind of take the summers to chase storms and take pictures. There's a magazine that every year has a competition for, like, the best storm photograph, and it becomes the COVID of one of the magazines. And you also get, like. Like other stuff, too, I think, from the magazine or when you win the competition. And it's never. A woman has never been the COVID photograph on this magazine. And so, like, Sloane is like, this is my year. Like, I want very much for this to be my year. Now she's up against all these other people. These, like, kind of love these characters and Wild West, a who is. Listen, who is a legend and who they've always had Like, a kind of contentious. Like, you know, this is very rivals to lovers, this book. And so, you know, he always works alone, she always works alone. But, like, they decide. He's, like, he's very charming. He's, like, very, very disarming and, like, super hot, covered in tattoos, and has never met a storm he isn't willing to, like, sure, of course, drive right into. Like, what a fucking dummy. But he's like, he takes some of the best storm pictures ever. And, like, she can't stand him because he's just reckless and, you know, whatever.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But of course, fearless and perfect, but also silly little fool.

[Sarah McLean]

Every time he talks to her, she's a little bit like, oh, why do I like him so much? And it's very clear from the beginning that, like, Wes is into her. Like, has been into her for a long time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of course, that's how they are in romance these days.

[Sarah McLean]

And. And. But, like, he. But he holds off, right? And so. And then, like, because of romance reasons, like, I don't know, his windshield blows out or something. And, like, she. They have to share her truck. Like, they have to chase together. And what I like about this book is, first of all, it is a slow burn in the best possible way. Like, it's not a slow burn where, like, they kiss at 90%. It's a slow burn in that they are, like, they kiss a lot in this book. But, like, they are both aware that once they get together, like, once they actually sleep together, like, it is gonna be stormy in its own way, the two of them. And so they do a lot of, like, kissing at the door to their hotel room or, like, kissing at the gas station. Like, a plus. Like, and the kisses are great. Like, listen, romance could stand to have more kissing. Like, and, yes, very. It's very, very lingering, this romance. And, like, it's hot. Like, and they're very honest with each other. Like, there's a lot of joking that, like, they'll, you know, they'll kiss and then they'll be like, I'll think about you tonight when I, like, you know, get in bed. And, like, it's. And it's just. It's so, like, humid, and it feels like you're just waiting for, like, the, like, lightning to come and what I like about it. And then, of course, they're all. There's so much photography in this. Like, they're taking pictures of the storms. There's discussion of, like, how you have to wait for that sort of, like, exact moment to know when, like, you're Gonna get the lightning strike when you're gonna get the. You know, whatever. The thing is. And I think. And I really, really loved, like, how she tightened. Like she wound the spring with these two characters. Ultimately, this becomes about the two of them having to figure out how to make space for each other, how to trust each other as rivals and as people. There's a lot that I really loved about this book, but I think that the real, the joy of this book is the slow burn of these two. And when they finally do get together and listen, slow burn lovers are probably gonna be like, Sarah, they fuck at like 60%. Like, I don't. I don't care. So, like, I mean, but it. I don't. My point is that it still feels

[Jennifer Prokop]

slow burn Sarah, but it still feels

[Sarah McLean]

slow burn y in, like, a really beautiful way because she. She really pulls this thread. Anyway, I had a great time reading this. It's very sexy. The COVID It actually. The COVID is really beautiful. It's them kissing in the rain and her hair is gravity defying. It's one of, I think, the prettiest covers of the year. And it's also just like a very. If you like the COVID you're gonna like the book. The COVID Really? You can just buy the COVID Yeah. And that's Chase Me if youf can by Heather Francis.

[Jennifer Prokop]

This week's episode, Fated Mates, is brought to you by Sophie Jordan, author of spellcast.

[Sarah McLean]

So we know Sophie Jordan can basically write anything. And this is her third romantasy, set in the same world as her prior romanticies, where dragons exist and witches exist. And this one is about arden, who for 10 years has been cursed to be invisible. She is trapped in her village by a spell she cannot break. And she can hear and see and spend time alongside her friends and family, but they think she's dead. They can't hear her or feel her or see her. And so she is living like a ghost in this town among the people who have forgotten her. And it's really devastating. Until one fateful day, the village is attacked. And these dragons arrive, or these humans arrive who can transform into dragons. Now, here's the thing. Dragons can't be seen or do not wish to be seen by humans. And while the rest of the village has fled, Ardyn has stayed. And when she discovers that these men have turned into dragons, she can see them. And tag one of the dragons can see her. Amazing. It's the first time she's ever. She's been seen in 10 years. It's super intense. She is invisible to everyone but him. And so she's like, holy shit, he saw me. And he's like, holy shit, she saw me. And then he kidnaps her away and then they're on, like a big adventure where the witch is gonna be vanquished, the spell is going to be broken, the war is going to be stopped, the world is going to be saved. This is a big, big, bold, romantic Romantasy. And that is spellcast.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That sounds amazing. So if you are interested in checking out this extra spicy Roman with magic dragons and witches, then spellcast just might be for you, me and everyone you know. It is available. It is available in print, ebook and audio. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chap right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to Sophie Jordan for sponsoring this week's episode. I'm gonna talk about a book I read for the first time for this episode, but it is an older book by Kara McKenna. And if you have not read Kara McKenna, what are you doing? Yeah, I mean, I just think, like, this is a rich text, right? So this book is called Lay It Down. It's the first of a series set in a, like, nowhere northern Nevada town called Fortuity. And the story, like, sort of of the. And it's like a series, right, that starts here with where it's almost like a little romantic suspense vibes to it, which I think is another, like, really, like, a place, like photography kind of thrives for, like, plot reasons. And in this book we have Vince, who, like, lives in this town. And, you know, it's this really small town, but a casino is about to be built. And what happens at the beginning of the book is that Alex, who is, like, one of Vince's friends, has, like, been killed drunk driving. But Vince thinks that, like, something else has been going on because right before, like, he went out drunk driving, right, like, he had called Vince and was like, he was a deputy and was basically like, you know, something about bones that they found at one of the, like, construction sites for the casino. Cause of course it's gonna be like, a complex. And Vince is sort of like, what if it wasn't drunk driving? What if someone killed Vince cause he saw something he wasn't supposed to see, right? And so he is, like, sort of, like, convinced that maybe, like, something else has really happened. And he ends up teaming up with Kim, who is the photographer, and she is, I think, like, the way photography is used here is really interest because she is someone who has been hired essentially by, like, and it's like there's a lot of different entities building this thing. There's the casino group and then there's like the group of the people who are like essentially the builders and the contractors, like sort of, you know, doing the construction. And she's been hired by one of these to like, sort of take like site photographs. It's like a pretty matter of fact job. But you know, if the casino, it's going to cost like a whole town is gonna be built in this. Like the whole town is gonna turn into like a tourist destination. And so, you know, it's like we're gonna be selling other lots. We really wanna show people the natural beauty of the place or whatever. And the thing that was really interesting to me about Kim is she starts off the book like sort of in a previous in a relationship with this guy named Ryan. And she grew up kind of in a wealthy neighborhood in Portland. And her parents was really controlling, didn't approve of her being a photographer, you know, wanted her to have like a real job. And then, you know, even with Ryan, like, you know, he had been sort of controlling in another way. Like she had like planned a big trip to like Patagonia because she wanted to like, do take photography for her portfolio and like really like lean into it. And he'd sort of like talked her out of it. And something about how like rough and tumble Vince is convinces Kim or like, helps her realize that she has kind of, without even really noticing, gotten away from her father. Only to tie herself to a man just like him. And Vince, of course, is nothing like either of them, right? Vince is just this like, you know, he's an ex con. He's, you know, just this like really rough and like, like I said, like rough and tumble in your face, like definitely, you know, down and you know, and he like sort of is like hitting her on her at this bar the first night. It's great. Like, it's really sexy between them. And then it's so funny because he go like, you know, she's like, he's like, I'll drive you back to your hotel or whatever, take you back to your hotel. Or like they walk, I think, and you know, he gets to the door and he's like, so are you going to invite me in? And she's like, yeah, sure, what's my name? And he's like, shit, you know what I mean? And I think he is so caught up in, oh my God, I think my friend was murdered and no one believes me. And she is sort of caught up in this is my opportunity to sort of like get my head straight and figure out what I want. And obviously the two of us could never be right together. And I think it's like one of these few books that really does sell the idea that these two people have nothing in common but can be right for each other. And there's this great scene, like sort of the like really memorable photography scene. I think I will like remember is he sort of says to her, like, listen, I promise you haven't gotten the best photos you could from around here because you don't know the best places, you know, you're not a local. And so she agrees to like have him pick her up at like the crack of dawn one morning to like sunrise photography. And you know, he arrives on his motorcycle and she's like, oh my God, are you kidding me? Am I gonna get on this motorcycle with his jackass, right? Like, and he takes her out like really far, like into the desert, a place no car could go. And then like they're sort of like talking and he's kind of like, okay, here it comes. And the sun rises over this like one place in the mountain. And it's just colors she's never seen before, right? Like there's like all this red dust in the desert and it's just like super saturated everything and she just cannot get enough of it. And it's this moment where you as the reader are like, oh, okay, he's like rough and tumble. Like, you know, she thinks he's, you know, but like the well mannered men in her lives do not respect her art or like show her the very thing she needed to see. Yeah, right. But this guy who she thinks is kind of just like a local yokel is the one who like immediately clocked that like, no, she really, her art is really serious to her. And I can be the one who like shows her the beauty of this place, right? And it's like this great moment where, you know, you really get him even though that he takes her more seriously, right? And allows her to sort of like be like an artist in this place. So anyway, it's great. The other thing that really like is awesome about this book, by the way, is you're kind of like, it's sort of evolving. It feels like pretty much your regular sort of 2014 contemporary romance, right? I mean it's, it's got a lot of plot, it's terrific. And then it turns out that there's a scene then maybe like a third of the way through the book where Vince's mom, who is, like, struggling essentially with, like, kind of memory loss and, you know, dementia or whatever, has apparently also is a bit of a medium and will, like, just say things. And then Vince realizes that she is essentially, like, kind of foretelling the future almost, right? So there's this scene where he's like, I didn't really think it was real, but she talked about my brother disappearing on a blue horse. And we were all like, whatever, Mom. And then he arrives on a blue Mustang and took off, and nobody saw him for 10 years. And so then there have been these other incidents where his mother has kind of said these crazy things, and they have actually had truth in them. So the thing that's then great is she sees and is, like, has, like, one of these moments and says that Kim will be the eyes and the ears and that, like, it's. And you're kind of like, whoa. So it has, like. It's kind of this, like, straight contemporary romance. And then all of a sudden, it's like, no. Kim's gift for vision is both, like, mystical and also real. And then it turns out that, like, Kim is, like, sort of just, like, witnesses. It's kind of in the right place at the right time to, like, witness things that, like, help them uncover the truth about, like, what really happened to his friend. Anyway, I was like, of course, super into this book. But it just was. Really did take me by surprise, too. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm enjoying this book. And then I was like, wait, what just happened? So that is. And like I said, if you've never read a book by Karen McKenna, my God, are they hot?

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, they are.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Like, she really is. Talk about someone who knows the job. And it was just really. There's a lot going on. It's like a richly layered. There's a lot of really interesting things with his friend groups. It turns out it's a book of four books in the series, and it's really complicated and complex, and you get some information at the end about what's going on with the bad guys. But there's clearly still more plot to be had. And I really enjoyed it and downloaded the rest of the books in the series. So that first one, though, it's called Lay It Down.

[Sarah McLean]

All right, well, since you started moving, you moved to Kara McKenna. I'm gonna move to something hot, too. I wanna talk about Joanna Shoup's novella My Dirty Duke.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I mean, there you go.

[Sarah McLean]

Listen, everybody loves Regency, but there's a reason why Victorian is great. And Victorian is great because you've got technology. And in this book, the photographic camera is a new thing. And the heroine, Violet is like obsessed with her father. A couple of years ago gave her a camera and she has been obsessed with this thing ever since. She, she is constantly taking photographs, you know, wherever, of anything that she can get her hands on to take photographs of. The thing is that she has only ever really wanted to take photographs of one specific thing and that is her father's best friend, the Duke of Ravensthorpe. This is a age gap. Dad's best friend. Book everybody. And it is very hot. And Violet basically has been lying in wood for the Duke of Ravensthorpe until she felt old enough to win him or at least seduce him. And this begins, you know, like a

[Jennifer Prokop]

shot from a gun, let me tell ya.

[Sarah McLean]

Cause it's a novella. So you know, Joanna knows that we don't want to linger here. And she, Violet sees Ravensthorpe. She has decided that like tonight is the night. And she goes, she like follows him. They're at a ball, she follows him. She discovers him like kind of being like about to have an affair, about to have like a, like a one night stand with some countess. And she's like watching, cause she's like, well, this might be the most I ever get to see here. And he sends the Countess away and then he's like, you can come out of your hidey hole. And Violet is like, oh my God, what's happening? And she's like panicky. But then she, you know, comes out and she basically tells him, she's like, I, I fancy you. And he's like, he like is into it. And then he remembers that he is her father's best friend.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

20 years older than her. And his, I mean, he doesn't remember this. He knows that he is never going to marry again because of course not his first. No. Well, I mean he can love, but his first wife died in childbirth and he is never going to put another woman through that. And so he is never going to marry, he is never going to have another child. His current child is basically Violet's age. And so like everything is. And it's a boy, so that's fine. The dukedom is secure and like, that's all that. But Violet, once she gets a taste of what it's like to be like privately with this man is like, oh no, like you're doomed. You're mine forever now. And she pursues him and he like cannot say no. He keeps reminding himself, like you can't fuck her, but you can do a lot of other things to her.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And, you know, maybe it's best if it's you and not somebody else who does. Yeah, that's my favorite when it's like,

[Jennifer Prokop]

well, oh yeah, of course.

[Sarah McLean]

I'm really doing everyone a favor here if it's me and not somebody else. And then there's this great moment where Violet, they are together. And Violet is like, I want to take pictures of you. And he's like, I'm a fucking duke. Like, you can't just take pictures of me. And she's like, what? It's totally fine. There are tons of shops like, like that sell. And he's like, you shouldn't even know those shops exist. And she's like, everyone knows those shops exist. And then they get to. So she takes a bunch of. And like. And again, like, it's just beautiful. Like, you know, Violet instructs him how to turn his body. She like, lingers on the planes of his, like, you know, whatever, torso, legs, everything. And it's just so, so sexy.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's really sexy.

[Sarah McLean]

And then, you know, and then they

[Jennifer Prokop]

fall in love and so they do.

[Sarah McLean]

But what I love about this, and I think this is the other reason why it kind of goes back to what I was saying about, you know, Kate's book and the Heather Francis is like. And I think this is probably true of all artists in romance, like writing about any artist. But like, again, that sort of like the way photography allows writers to like, slow down the observation. Right? Like really linger on all the little like sexy bits and not make it feel like self indulgent.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, right. That's their art, Sarah.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So it's their art, Sarah.

[Sarah McLean]

I think it's like, it's a way to really like make the book super horny.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yes, 100%.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Okay, I'm going to go. Okay, listen, I'm gonna go in the Wayback machine, everybody, and talk about a book which is. I'm like gonna talk about and also tell you you probably should not read it. I know, that's terrible. This is a book I for sure have grandfathered in. Not cause of like, because the hero is like a total jackass. Right? Like this is to me a real old school type hero. It's an Elizabeth Wool category romance that was originally called the Danvers Touch and now has been like, sort of retitled and re jacketed and is now called to the Ends of the Earth. And you guys, I like loved this book. Now we've talked at Length about how like, Elizabeth Lowell was really, like, for, like, really, like, this was the crucible that made me. Because, like, in these old books, like, you know, he's just, ugh. He's been hurt by love, and therefore he'll never love again. But it's like a cruel. Like, it is all. It's not like I hate myself cause I was dumb enough to fall in love with this woman who played me. It's like, all women are terrible, right? This is a very specific kind of 80s romance hero. And, you know, I. I was fine with it because I'm an idiot, but I also loved it. Okay, so anyway, in this book, the photographer is Kat Cochran. And she is essentially, like, really pressed at this moment for. For money, right? She has younger siblings who are in medical school. And her. Her mother is sort of like, just like, flits around and is like a socialite. But like, Kat is sort of on the hook for like, paying for this. And you know, and. But she like, kind of sees that the. And I mean, you guys, when I tell you this, I did not read this book. I just have read this book so many times. It's like, all in me. And Kat is essentially, like, waiting. She has like a. You know, has done photography for a company that is sort of like, potentially is like, not paying her bills, like, not paying her invoices. And so, like, she's just like under a tremendous amount of pressure at this point, including that she is in poor physical health, right? Like, her. She's like sort of underweight. Her. She hasn't had a period in a while because she's essentially, you know, this is like, you know, 1980s doctoring where like, you would just go see the doctor and the doctor would be like, you're just in terrible health, my dear. You know, like, you're just not taking care of yourself, you know, Whereas, like, now you would just be like, well, I guess I'll just popping Advil and hope for the best. Because, you know, like, who has insurance? So anyway, she is really kind of struggling, and she lives in Southern California. And she's like, it's not clear. I think I kind of remember that. Like, basically the setup is she's either renting this house from her agent or her agent has found her this house to live in. And it is like, right on the ocean. And so there's these like, cliffs down to the ocean. This has become as important later. And like, the family next door has a little boy who likes to hang out with her, and she's like. And she just like, photography for her is like her lifeblood, right? Like she just loves to sort of capture the world around her. And so this is one of the reasons she loves this house, right? Because even, you know, just like sort of the sea and the sky and like, you know, like we really get the, that she has like an artistic temperament, but she's not very smart about people. And I think this is like the interesting thing about her being a photographer, right? Like she assumes that the things she can see must be true. So she meets then like the hot man on the other side of her, Travis Danvers, right. And he is just this like beautiful man. And they sort of, you know, he's of course, you know, kind of mean to her, but whatever, she doesn't really pay attention. And then like they have like kind of drift into this affair and have sex and she doesn't realize that he is like, you know, famous boat maker Travis Danvers. And what happens is she gets pregnant and she is like really happy about it, even though her doctor is like, you are not in good enough shape. I need you to prepare yourself right now for the fact that you are not gonna be able to keep this baby. Sure, right. Like of course, romance science, you are not like this. Just prepare yourself. Like, I don't know how you got pregnant, but like it, you body doesn't want this to happen.

[Sarah McLean]

Uh huh.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So she tells Travis because she's so excited, like, oh my God, Travis. And Travis of course is like, you just want my money. And this is like a really banger of a scene, right? You just want my money now meanwhile. Oh yeah, listen you guys, you have to understand, this is the 80s. He, it's the 80s.

[Sarah McLean]

So he has to listen. The rule in the 80s and romance is men have to say the meanest,

[Jennifer Prokop]

stupidest shit, meanest things, right?

[Sarah McLean]

So that ultimately when they get their ass handed to them, they just have to crawl through broken glass.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And that's the part I liked. I'm getting to the, this is the

[Sarah McLean]

part I like get to the broken glass, Jen.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But it's very dramatic. So he like pulls out his checkbook. Cause it's the 80s, he just carries it around with him, right? And he's like writing her a check from his purse. Exactly. And she is like so pissed that she basically turns on the fucking gas stove and like burns the check. I mean it is like 80s drama to the max. It's terrific. So anyway, she of course has a miscarriage, right. It's really, she. But like it's really tragic how it happens. Jason, the little boy next door, is coming down the stairs. He doesn't realize the waves are coming in. She runs down to save him. I mean, it's a TV show, everybody. So anyway, Kat then is basically like, my life is terrible. She is devastated. And she's just, like, lays in bed, right? Watching the sun rise and set. That's all she can do. She's lost this man. She has lost this child. She doesn't have any money. Like, she's got nothing. And so then Travis, this, like, fucking dickhead is, like, realizes that he was wrong about her once this happens, obviously, right? He's like, oh, she lost our baby to save this child. And I'm a jackass. And she won't even talk to him. She's just like, leave me alone.

[Sarah McLean]

No.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And there's this great part where he's, like, holding her in the hospital and she still has a photograph in his arm. Sarah. That's from memory.

[Sarah McLean]

Perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

So then he. She just, like, right. She's like, I'm. You know. And so he basically kidnaps her and takes her to one of his boats, which he is specially treated with, like, a dark room.

[Sarah McLean]

A dark room on a boat.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Everything is cleverly designed so that it will just stay stationary even if the boat is rocking. And she's basically like, you're gonna. I'm gonna bring you back to life no matter what. I'm gonna make you take pictures and I'm gonna put. Put a camera in your hand, and you're going to. I'm going to fix you.

[Sarah McLean]

Unreal.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And he is tortured by how tortured she is. And then they finally, you know, convince, you know, are like, sure. But, yeah, listen, I ate this shit up because I am an idiot. And like I said, I cannot even really in good conscious recommend that you read it. But I did think it was really because. But like. Like I said, things. Things sneak past your psyche when you're, you know, reading these books when you're 14. The thing that I would say, though, too, for me is I was really fascinated, though, by the idea that she can't see the truth in Travis, right? And even though she's a photographer, there's a way in which she can't see who he really is. And then once he has revealed himself to her in the most terrible way, he has to really become the man she sees, right?

[Sarah McLean]

Elizabeth Lowell. She knows the job, man. She knows the job. I mean, I will say. I would say that Elizabeth Lowell probably, if not number one, easily in the top three of Romance writers who write heroes who are monstrous to the heroine.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Monstrous. Yeah. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

I question Elizabeth's life. Are you okay? Because even in. And like, there are obviously plenty of monstrous heroes in old romance, but, like, I would be hard pressed to come

[Jennifer Prokop]

up with, yeah, the worst guys are

[Sarah McLean]

men than the ones that she writes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

But they always.

[Sarah McLean]

They always have to suffer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, completely, completely. They do, yeah. And I mean, it's like the suffering of, like always, the suffering is rooted in. I completely misjudged this woman. Yeah. I up. Right. I up.

[Sarah McLean]

You can't write that anymore. No, no. Anyway, I mean, even, like, mean to her, dark romance thinks they're doing a thing. Please go read every Elizabeth Lowell book and then come back to me and tell me about your serial killer.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Because.

[Sarah McLean]

Because nobody's writing what these men are.

[Jennifer Prokop]

What.

[Sarah McLean]

What Elizabeth writing at the time, the

[Jennifer Prokop]

sort of, like, emotional truth behind that at the time, to me felt very rooted in, like, the fact that, like, women had to be smart about men's feelings and like, kind of navigating them in a way that men didn't have to be sure. Right. Until they realized what they were going to lose.

[Sarah McLean]

Right, exactly.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. And, you know, like I said, I like this. This is a book that I think it's also, you know, sometimes I think I just want to say, like, one other thing, which is like, I think it's really easy to go back and sort of look at these old books and like, I had like, went through a phase of kind of being like, embarrassed by how much I love these books. Right. Like, I should be better or, like, more whatever. And I think, like, now I'm just like, no, ma'.

[Sarah McLean]

Am, that shit.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Slaps.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, Listen, and here's what I would say is, like, we are not in those books. We are not talking about. Nobody is dragging the heroine into darkness in these books. These are all morality chain in the sense of, like, every one of them, the hero is having to go through a massive transformation. And it's interesting because I think we've talked so much recently about how, like, contemporary romance now in 2026, is really the heroine's story largely in MF. Right. Like, it is, you know, the characters who need transformation are the heroines in these books. Like, the heroes kind of come, like, fully formed and perfectly fine. And I just think fundamentally that's antithetical in a lot of ways to the way that I understand romance and the purpose of it. Right. For me, it feels like both characters should have to transform.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Sarah McLean]

If only one character is transforming Then why the fuck is it the woman? Like, we're fine. It's them who have to be different, right?

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

I mean, I think. But I think that in. In these cases, in the Elizabeth Lowells, these heroines don't do very much transformation. No, they're fucking fully made and perfectly fine. Yeah. It's the men who have to figure their shit out to be worthy. Yeah, exactly. Do you want men to have to work their shit out to be worthy? Right. Anyway, same. Let's talk about Taming Teddy by Lucy Lennox, which is my favorite of Lucy Lennox's books.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, there you go.

[Sarah McLean]

So Lucy Lennox writes. Mm, romance. And this is a big series that she wrote called Maid Marian. And this is the second book in the series. You don't have to read them in order. Teddy, who Theodore, is a photographer. A wildlife photographer or. He's not a wildlife photographer. He's like a. Travel around the world, take pictures of cool, stuffed photographer. But he has gotten wind of this, like, kind of, like, excellent wildlife biologist. I don't know, like, guy out in the Alaskan wilderness who is, like, a animal whisperer. And his name is James Marion, and he lives out in the Alaskan wilderness. And he, you know, is famous for, like, I don't know, taming grizzlies. Doesn't matter. Point is, he doesn't tame them. He doesn't. That. He would never. But he, like, is comfortable around grizzlies. So, anyway, Teddy gets this idea. There's this, like, competition again, a kind of photography competition. He's like, I'm gonna take pictures of this, like, elusive Dr. Marian. And he. And the beginning of this book is really charming because basically, like, he, like, sends an email out to him and says, like, you know, I want to take pictures of you. And the response. And they're like, kind of. And the response is basically like, no, I did. I will never. Like, I'm not doing media exposure. Like, he's been. James has been burned. We learned pretty quickly by, like, there was a photographer who took a picture of him with a bear. Like, a bear cub. And then, like, it was on the COVID of a magazine or whatever. And then, like, later, a year later, a little boy, like, you know, saw a bear cub in the wild and, like, thought he could touch it and was mauled by the mother. Like, it. You know, whatever. So James has been burned, Jamie has been burned. And so he's basically like, no. And then Teddy's, like, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing. No response. Like, absolutely no. And then finally, he's like, help. I'm in wherever, and there's a wounded falcon here, and I don't know what to do. Could you help me? And this, like, brings on, like, brings Jamie online. And Jaime's like, yes, I can help you. I'm texting you, like a. I'm texting you or emailing you the contact for, like, a local vet. And then Teddi's like, ah, I now have your telephone number. So now I'm gonna nag you by this way. And then they start, like, a cute little, like, texty relationship. Finally, finally, Jamie gives in. Teddy goes up to Alaska. They, you know, start working together. They start taking pictures together. They start, start. And then. But, like, Teddy is, like, a one and done kind of guy. Like, he's like, photographer. Like, the kind of central casting, like, photographer, like, poor. A port in every call. That's not. That's not right. That's not right. Like, someone in every port for him.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I don't. Yeah, no, I'm like, listen, I don't know. There is a phrase.

[Sarah McLean]

But now I'm. Anyway.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And so he just, like, kind of is an in and out kind of guy. And then. And Jamie has his own problem, which is that, like, he was left at the altar by this man that he really loved that he thought was, you know, going to be the one. And now he's like. Doesn't believe in love. And so they get out there and they do, like, they're instantly attracted to each other. They spend a lot of time, like, out in the woods. Like, Teddy takes a lot of pictures of him out in the woods, like, you know, with animals. And, like, like, is kind of. There's a lot. Again, a lot of, like, slowing down. Time to, like, gaze at, you know, the person who you are falling for. And it's really beautiful. And then they start, like, it's hot. They start, you know, banging. And then a blizzard hits and they're, like, snowed in together. And, like, when Teddy should have gotten out, he's now, like, in deeper and, like, falling for Jamie. And now here's the thing. Like, Teddy's kind of like a wild animal, too. Jen. Teddy's last name is Kodiak.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I could not be more pleased with that information. I, like, need a cigarette.

[Sarah McLean]

And so. And Jamie. And they, like, really start to fall for each other. But then it's really interesting because then suddenly Teddy's, like, in. He's like, I think maybe I'm in. Like, I think maybe this could be it. And Jamie is Like, no, because, you know, love is pain.

[Jennifer Prokop]

He's like, I've read Elizabeth Full. I know the story.

[Sarah McLean]

And so anyway, so it goes on. And like. And then, of course, like, it's. It's a really. But here's the thing. These two are really. Talk about two people who, like, love each other. They like each other, though. And that's the fun part of this book is, like, watching two people who really like each other fall for each other. Despite the fact that it is very, like, grumpy sunshiny in its own way. I wouldn't say it's actually grumpy sunshiny. It's like grumpy rake, if that. I don't know if that's a thing.

[Jennifer Prokop]

That sounds delightful.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah. Like, one of them is just grumpy and the other one is, like, has never ever met anybody who's ever said no to him.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And it's quite delightful. So that's Taming Teddy by Lucy Lennox. All right, I'm gonna talk about a

[Jennifer Prokop]

romantic suspense book that I really enjoyed called Flight by Laura Griffin. This is the second book in the Texas Murder Files series. I did not read book number one and was fine. You will also be fine. And so what this is. And in this one, Miranda is our photographer. Now, it's really interesting. So it starts off with her. She's out on the water in a kayak. She is photographing birds. And so we think that, like, she's a nature photographer. And then what happens is she, like, sees, I don't know, like, some fishing line or. I don't know, like something like, catches her attention over, like, in. Near the banks of the water she's on. I don't know where she is because I don't. What. You know what. So the. The island she's on is. It's like Lost beach island. And it's kind of like near Corpus Christi. So there are some, like, kind of like, essentially like small islands, like right off the coast of Texas there.

[Sarah McLean]

And that.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's like this. It's one of these. And so anyway, she is in, like, the estuary or whatever, and what she comes across is a. A dead couple in a canoe. And they have clearly been sort of arranged there. And she is like, has this kind of. Oh, fuck moment, you know, because it turns out that she is a. And what's really interesting, I think about, like, the way this, like, the setup happens is essentially like, she is. Then we sort of switch to Joel's point of view, and he is. Joel Breida is like One of the cops in this town, and he's, like, arrived on the scene, and, you know, one of his people is like, well, you know, she's the one who found them. And he goes over to talk to her, and she's clearly, like, you know, like, kind of in. He's, like, kind of fascinated by her affect, right? Cause he's like, why is she so kind of normal about it? Like, most people are really freaked out, and, you know, like, she's. And she's, like, sort of rushing off to get somewhere. And then, like, later in the day, he's kind of like, wow, these crime scene photographs are amazing. And they were like, yeah, that lady took them. And it turns out that she was a CSI in San Antonio.

[Sarah McLean]

I like this. Yeah.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. Right. And so. And what happened is that she has essentially was, like, really experienced a lot of trauma on her job, including. And it takes a while for this to sort of, like, kind of, unlike you, get hints that there was, like, a specific case that sort of, like, broke her.

[Sarah McLean]

Right.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And it turns out that it, like, wasn't her fault, but, like, through the fault of her team, some evidence was mishandled. And it meant that, like, a murderer, a child murderer went free. And so she, like, really internalized this as sort of, like, I've seen too many things. I'm too traumatized by this. I. I can't be responsible for this anymore. So she rents this house on this island for six months and is gonna, like, be. She is. She's always been a birder. Like, that's not new, but she's gonna, like, kind of take photographs of birds for this calendar. And, like. Right. Like, she's just kind of like, I can't do this anymore. And Joel is basically like, well, listen, we could use your help, because we every summer, get a huge influx of, like, sort of people, like, tourists and people, and there's an uptick in crime. And, you know, we really could use your help in the department. Like, would you consider coming on board? And it's like, this real tension between, like, what feels almost like a calling. Like, she is, in fact, incredibly good at her job, and yet she doesn't really want to be tied up in this. But this murdered couple essentially might be, like, a serial killer, right? Like, there's this very strange feather, you know, essentially at the scene. And, you know, they sort of figure out that there's been a couple of other murders with feathers. And so the work of the book is them, like, trying to essentially, like, figure out what's going On. I really, like. It's been a long. I feel dumb saying this everybody, but, like, I really sometimes forget how much I like romantic suspense. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I think, like, one of the things about good romantic suspense is that you are. I mean, I would say for me, it's like a really good romantic suspense book is like, 51% romance, 49% the mystery. You know, it's like it has to be just a little bit more romance and suspense to me, but it has to be enough suspense that it feels like a really good, like, kind of twisty, turny plot. And you're wondering what's happening.

[Sarah McLean]

Yes.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And I think that this book, like, really sort of like, nails that perfectly. And then I think, like, you know, Joel is like, a really interesting character, right? Like, he has, you know, kind of been working for this town, and he is, you know, as sort of like romance cops are. Right? Like, if they're good guys or whatever, right? Like, sort of like, you know, he's grown up in this town, and he is not just, like, sort of someone who is, like, kind of landed there for the job. He's, like, committed to this place as a place. And I think, like, that also sort of makes it really interesting. And then I think the other thing is, like, you know, he has, like, a younger deputy who he's been training, and she's a point of view character. And you realize that later on she'll be a character in her own book. Like, you know, it does sort of a lot of those things really well. But I think, like, the whole idea of, like, Miranda's tension around photography as both, like, an instrument to, like, discover the truth about these crimes, but also something that is dangerous or harmful in that, you know, she's now on the front line, of course, right in the crosshairs of this murder investigation. You know, there's, you know, hints that someone has been, like, snooping around her house and, you know, are they after her now? And, you know, like, she's gonna be in danger because of, like, the fact that she has essentially become part of this investigation. But, yeah, I tore through this book. I had a really fun time reading it, you know, and like I said, I think it, like, really hit. It's a good romance. But I think, like, the photography of it all is, like, sort of Alex, right? Like, that Miranda, this is not easy work, right? You're really seeing the truth of how people are, but in the worst way, right? You're not seeing the beauty of people. You're seeing sort of like the horror in people. And so then her, like, sort of Miranda's nature photography is, like, sort of a corrective to that, right? Like, it's a way for her to sort of, like, I don't know, remember that there's beauty in the world and, like, how she's gonna, like, sort of keep those things in balance. So, anyway, I really enjoyed this book. I thought it was really fun to read, and I'm definitely planning to read the rest of this series. So that's Flight by Laura Griffin.

[Sarah McLean]

How many more do you have?

[Jennifer Prokop]

One managed.

[Sarah McLean]

Oh, yeah, Scotty. Okay. I have one that sort of dances around romantic suspense. It's not romantic suspense, and I wouldn't pitch it as such, but there is a little bit of suspensiness in it, and that is Nikki Sloan also. Everybody, just get ready because it's Nikki Sloan's Three Dirty Secrets, which is one of her Blindfold club books. We talked about Three Little Mistakes on the podcast. We did a deep dive of it, and we are sort of avowed Nikki Sloan fans here. Nikki knows how to write an erotic. She's also been a guest, so she knows how to write an erotic romance. And this is one so you don't have to have read the rest of the series. The series sort of centers around, you know, Sex, A Kink Club, which, you know, it was 2016. That's what we were doing then. And so. And Regan, the heroine, has been in this series, you know, for all. I don't know what book this is, maybe four. She's been around in the series, and she. All you really know is, like, she's not one of the women who works in the club. She works in the club, but she's like a sales associate, like, and that's really all, you know, what comes to be discovered sort of very early in her own book is that she is actually an undercover FBI agent. And she is in this club, you know, playing the part of Dom D o M M E and kind of sales associate at the Kink Club and, like, partner to Dom D O M, the hero from an earlier book, in order to, like, get. Have a. Have a lay of the land of, like, a very particular. She's like, there's, like, a, you know, romance mystery that's going on through here. Regan has. Is in need of a tattoo for romance reasons. Like, she has a. She has a scar from something that, you know, traumatizing that's happened in her past. And she is recommended by one of the guys in the club to go to this tattoo Artist named Stylus, who is going to give her a tattoo. And he basically is like, here's the way this works. I'm actually an artist also, and. Or an artist period. And I will give you the tattoo. And then I'd like to take photographs of you, like, for my gallery. And she's like, I'm undercover. Like, I can't do this. But he's like, he. I mean, she didn't tell him. He's. She's undercover, but she's like, I'm undercover. I can't do this. And he's like, I can do it without showing her face. Like.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

And so they. And these two, like, they have this very. Like, it's very clear that neither of them are in for anything emotional because, you know, Reagan. Yes, for her job, but also because, like, it's just not in the cards for her. And Silas, like, is a really decent person, but, like, it's just clear that, like, he. He is. He's just not in a place, emotionally, where a relationship can happen. And this is where Nikki Sloan does, like, kind of her best work, I think. She very rarely gives you a two characters or even one character who is, like, ready. Her books are really about sex, making people, like, breaking people open.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah.

[Sarah McLean]

To make them ready for love. And this book really does that. There is, like, again, this kind of, like, very intense sense of, like, intimacy that comes with the photography. She uses the camera to bring these two closer together. There's, like, a breathlessness in the scenes where he's taking pictures of her. He's kissed her once before. They kiss before. He takes pictures of her one time. And he. He is holding himself back. Like, he's basically, like, telling. There's a moment where he's like, I really want to kiss you. And she's like, you should. And he's like, no, we have to do this first. We have to take these pictures first. Like, we have to, like, we have to stay focused in this. And it feels like he's leashed in a lot of ways, like, in this scene. And it's just so hot, and it's so well done. And it feels like she is simultaneously, like I said, using the camera to both create intimacy, but also instill this kind of barrier between them. And you, as the reader, are just, like, vibrating with them through the whole scene. You know, there's also, like, in classic Nikki Sloan fashion, this book has a threesome in it. All of these books have threesomes in it. Yeah. In them, this is an.

[Jennifer Prokop]

It's a promise of the premise. It's right there in the title three. Right.

[Sarah McLean]

And. And she has. And it's ffm. And it's extremely, extremely sexy. And ultimately, like, this is a. This is a book where, like. And of course, like, things come to a pass. Like, she. Her cover is blown. Like, things are. Things happen in this book that really, like, push them kind of into fear, push them toward each other, make them sort of rethink what life is worth and what life is with each other. Like, what sacrifices we are willing to make for love. And I think it's great. It's also. If anybody likes, listen, if you like, this is too dominant. So there's. It's. The sex is very sort of, like, intense in the way that they sort of push, pull against each other. Like, Nikki is very, very good at writing these erotic novels.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Oh, yeah. That whole series.

[Sarah McLean]

And if you've never read this series, like, good, you know, you're welcome.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Have a nice time.

[Sarah McLean]

You're gonna have a great time.

[Jennifer Prokop]

I just thought I would saved manage till the end because obviously we've talked about it so much, you know. So basically, the plot of this book is that Scotty is the manager of this band, and Sophie is a photographer who in the past, photographed one of the most painful, like, vulnerable moments of the band. And he kind of holds her responsible for this. And yet the band essentially has overridden him and hired her to be their kind of new tour photographer. So there's a lot going on at sort of the, like, plot level there kind of that I don't want to necessarily spoil if you've never read this book, because the thing about, like, her as a photographer is that, like, she sees right through him. Like, if that's the vibe you're looking for, she sees, like, right through him. And there is a way in which, like, he has no defenses around her, right? Like, it's. She just disarms him entirely. And that, of course, drives him crazy. And there's like a whole, like, listen, if you are like, oh, my God, I love it when people have insomnia and they can only sleep with each other. This book has it right. The really memorable photography scene for me in this book is she. And it's really interesting because she is. She photographs. She was like a. She was a paparazzi. She has this really keen sense of, like, when a crowd is gonna turn. And there's this really amazing scene where she gets out and she's like, sort of like, oh, I see. I'm gonna photograph the band coming out of, like, in. You know, I'm gonna position myself here in the crowd because that will be the view I want when the band is, like, coming out of the car or whatever, and she can feel that the crowd is turning and, like, sort of is, like, almost even on her way to, like, try and get out of the. Get out of there. But it turns too fast, and she ends up essentially, like, getting knocked around. And Scotty sees this. She has been injured when he was supposed to be taking care of her.

[Sarah McLean]

So perfect.

[Jennifer Prokop]

And this man, like, loses his mind. And then because he cannot deal with his feelings, he has to go off and do, like, Fight Club things for a few days, for a little while, you know? And this made perfect sense to me as a reader because I grew up on the Danverse Touch and was like, obviously you hate yourself. She was hurt on your watch, and so now you have to go bite, you know, punch things. But I think the other. So that, like, is a really, like. Of her, like, doing the work. I mean, like, so her work as a photographer is really laced throughout the entire. But then, like, the part that is also, like, the sexy part, like, this book, I think, does both of these things, right? Like, her work is important, but also, like, the sexy stuff is there's this part where they finally are, like, gonna get together, right? Like, they finally both have admitted that, like, this is way more than just, you know, we're friends or whatever who just sleep in the same bed and can only sleep with each other. And she's like. So. So there's this great scene where she's, like, picks up her camera to essentially photograph him. And it's a way of her both distancing herself, right? She's in his lap, essentially. But also this I see you moment, and it's really, really special.

[Sarah McLean]

It's really great.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah. God, this book is so good. I haven't read it in a long time.

[Sarah McLean]

We did a deep dive of.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Of.

[Sarah McLean]

Yeah, of them. Yeah, the whole series, I think, back in the day, we'll put links in show notes so everybody can go read those books and then go listen to the deep dive. I. I think that we've done the job here.

[Jennifer Prokop]

Yeah, me too.

[Sarah McLean]

I had no idea we'd go this long talking about photographers, but here we are. I guess we're unlocked. Our own little kink here at a fate of mates. Anyway, if you love a photographer book, you should tell us all about them, because obviously we're always looking for them. Also, if you love a romance novel about photographers, you can also join our Patreon and tell us about it there. You can go to patreon.com fatedmates you get access to our discord where a few thousand people are talking about about romance novels literally 24 7. And also you get access to more than 40 extra episodes of the podcast. If you just like us, you know, talking about romance novels and movies about Alexander Skarsgrd, we do that sometimes. And you can also tell us about books that you love on Instagram and Threadsated Mates pod or on blueskytamates.net and as always, if you're interested in any of the books that we talked about today or any of the things we talked about today, show notes exist. And you can go to fatedmates.net and click on episodes to see a full list of all the books we talked about and everything else. And and yeah, this is Fated Mates. You can listen to us every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Prokop and we hope that you have a wonderful week.