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- [00:01]
A
Sarah, how have we never done this topic before? Are we just gonna go right to
- [00:04]
B
it, how obsessed I am with this as a concept?
- [00:08]
A
But you don't have a tattoo yourself.
- [00:10]
B
I don't. And you know why.
- [00:12]
A
No, I don't. So. Okay, tell me everything. All right, everybody, we're gonna tattoo banter.
- [00:16]
B
Getting right into it.
- [00:18]
A
It's the end of season eight. We just gotta.
- [00:20]
B
It's tattoo banter. That's what this is. Yes. It's a little bit like banter, though,
- [00:25]
A
because, like, anyway, that's what tattoos are good for, bantering.
- [00:29]
B
I mean, that's what truly. That's it. Like, when you find out. I also feel like when you're young, when you're, like, in your 20s, like, you know, all your friends have, like, you know what all your friends. Tattoos are, like. Tattoos are a thing you sort of, like, know about each other.
- [00:47]
A
Right.
- [00:47]
B
But when you're, like, older, you don't know whether your friends have tattoos or not. Unless they're, like, tattoo people.
- [00:53]
A
Yeah, right. Like, you can see them, right? Yeah.
- [00:57]
B
Like, so I'm always intrigued when I, you know, find a new friend and, like, you know, you warm up to them or, like, it's like a mom friend. I'm like, moms aren't. You know, moms don't have tattoos. But of course moms do have tattoos.
- [01:11]
A
They do now. Right? Exactly.
- [01:13]
B
Yeah. And so, like, it's. I'm always, like, I always feel like I'm surprised when I find out somebody has a tattoo. Not cause I expect you to be a certain way, but because, like, it's just not a thing we talk about.
- [01:27]
A
So why don't you have one, though, considering how much you love them?
- [01:30]
B
Now that you've just asked that, I feel like this week is going to unravel why I don't have one yet. And I say yet because I really do. Like, I'm not opposed to having one. Like, I would very happily walk into a tattoo shop today and get one. I mean. But the issue is that I think I'm so obsessed with the idea of tattoos having, like, powerful meaning, that, like, I've never really had a moment where I've been like, that's it. That's the meaningful one.
- [02:00]
A
Yeah. You know, it's really funny because I feel like this is the way the tattoos got gentrified, though. I feel like the idea that, like, a tattoo has to have meaning as opposed to just, like, yeah, I thought it would look cool.
- [02:12]
B
I mean, this is the thing, right? Like, sailors have, like, birds and Compasses and, like, you know, like, stick the sea and, like, you know, sirens and octopuses and all these things, like, all over them. Right. And have for millennia. Yeah. A long time since. Since the beginning of time, people have been inking their skin with, like, you know, whatever the things are. But, man, like, maybe it is true that it just feels gen. That that's the gentrifying, but I actually think that it's. I'm not gentrifying tattoos. I'm, like, romancing tattoo, romance noveling tattoos. Like, I've written so many characters who, like, have a.
- [02:49]
A
A meaningful tattoo.
- [02:50]
B
You know, one character has a scar, the other one tattoos the exact same image on their own body. Like, I mean, these are nonsense things. But the other day, when I was prepping for the. Like, I sort of knew we were doing this. I said to Eric. Cause Eric also does not have tattoos. And I'm like. And he's like, what is with you? Like, what is with the tattoos?
- [03:11]
A
Like.
- [03:13]
B
And I was like, I don't know how. I don't know how many times I can tell you in text that I think they're hot. You should get one. He was like, now, listen, everybody. Eric has not read all of my books, but he has read the Hell's Bell series. And so he knows, like, okay, tattoos are a thing here. And he's like. And he's like. I was like, why won't you get one? And he was like, what would I get? And I was like, I don't know. Like, my name. He was like, no. He just walked out of the room.
- [03:47]
A
Amazing. Amazing. Just like, don't be ridiculous. That's so funny. You know, Mr. Reid's romance and I each have a tattoo, and we went together to get them. And, like, the funniest part about this story to me now is I was a person who was kind of like, I don't know. Like, I will for sure admit that. Like, what? I mean, you guys, you also don't understand, like, tattoos have just, like, really come a long way in the culture. In culture. Like in America. American culture, for sure. Like, it used to. And I had friends who, like, when we were in our 20s, like, had tattoos. And I remember thinking, like, well, how are you gonna feel about that when you're 80 or whatever? Dumbass thing. People.
- [04:24]
B
You're gonna remember that time you were cool and got tattoos.
- [04:28]
A
Yeah. Or like, what. What about when you're wrinkly? You know what? Who cares? Like, if you want it, I, like, support you, so.
- [04:34]
B
But I was for a long Time,
- [04:35]
A
it's kind of like, I don't know what I'd want. And then I figured out what I wanted, which is as the last line of James Joyce's Ulysses, which is real fucking nerdy, everybody. And then my husband's is his sign. He's a Leo, and he has this, like, a lion. But the funniest part about this story now is that we had, like, sort of been talking about it, and then on the day, like, we went to go, our son, who is now. So this must have been, like, 10 years ago, I guess, right? Like, because our son was in, like, eighth grade, so that would have made him, like, 13, old enough to just, like, leave at home. And so at one point, we get a text from him. We're at the tattoo studio. Like, we're at the shop or whatever, and he texts us, and he's like, where are you guys? And we're like, we're getting tattoos. And he was just, like, lame. Like, lame. Like, exactly. Like, And I was. Seriously, I said to my husband, I was like, we are just making, like, things that, like, not cool to him. You know what I mean? And then when he was going away to college, I was, like, really pressing hard. I was like, I think the three of us should get matching tattoos. Like, I think we should have, like, a family tattoo. And he was just like, mom, like, you're so not cool. Like, whatever. Oh, mom, what a dumbass idea that is. You know, I would. Here's what I would say to, like, anybody who is kind of like, that on the fence or whatever. Like, I remember thinking, like, oh, it would. Would it bother me or would I notice it or what? I would. Would. I would. Would I regret it? And I. I absolutely never has. It just feels like a part of me, and I think.
- [06:10]
B
But you never did the thing that people do where, like, what they really say is, once you get the first one, then you, like, immediately want a second one.
- [06:18]
A
Like, I definitely mocks. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I have that for sure. I have a big scar on my arm from when I broke it, and I want to get a tattoo over that, I think. But I also was. And tattoos are expensive. That's a recession indicator.
- [06:34]
B
They are expensive.
- [06:35]
A
So I just was like, whatever, I can't do this. But, I mean, so, no, I definitely have thought about getting more. I think, if anything, what I would say is, like, if you were thinking about it, I think a lot of people's first tattoo is somewhere, like, they can't really see it.
- [06:49]
B
It's on, like, the back of their
- [06:50]
A
shoulder or their ankle, and mine's on, like, my forearm, like my, like right here. And I just think, like, if, if it's for you, then I encourage you to put it somewhere where you can see it every time you look at it.
- [07:02]
B
Well, this is a good example. I like that how tattoo culture has, or how culture has embraced the tattoo. Because when we were young, it was like, well, if you're gonna get one, you better get it somewhere where it can be hidden.
- [07:16]
A
What if you have to have a job interview one day?
- [07:18]
B
A lot of people have these stunningly beautiful tattoos on their bodies. I'm very envious of tattoo people because, like, and I, I will also say I am the kind of person who could easily become a tattoo person. Like, yeah, I can absolutely see myself, like getting one and then being like, oh, now I'm gonna get another. Like, now this is what I do.
- [07:39]
A
Yeah.
- [07:40]
B
And I can see myself being the kind of person, like, I remember,
- [07:45]
A
what
- [07:45]
B
was it last year? There was Avon threw like a influencer event and they had like a pop up tattoo studio there. And like a bunch of these, like, young influencers just got little, like, you know, fine line tattoos of bookstores made
- [08:01]
A
slime when a bunch of people pouring out to get tattoos.
- [08:04]
B
You guys, you're amazing. You didn't invite me or I probably. That would have been my first tattoo. They just didn't think to ask if I wanted to go.
- [08:10]
A
I'm sure that's why Sarah.
- [08:13]
B
Well, I mean, nobody asked.
- [08:17]
A
Now they know. Now they know.
- [08:19]
B
I mean, I often, like, I thought, I like, my thing is I really just feel like it's an embarrassment of ideas. Like, I'm like, oh, I have so many things I love. But then for some reason it feels like the first one is like, yeah,
- [08:34]
A
like you're breaking the seal somehow.
- [08:35]
B
Like, it has to be the most important in some way. And then, you know, but what I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Anyway, I love the. But the point is, I love tattoos. I love hearing people talk about their tattoos. I love knowing that people have them. I love thinking, I love how meaningful they are. I love how people just like, you know, write their stories on their bodies. Like, this is amazing. And it's like, it's just a very cool thing. And I love, love, love it in romance novels because there are so many cool ways that like, romance novelists think about tattoos being they are never listen. Like, Jen always says, animals mean something, weather means something. Like, sure, tattoo tattoos mean something in romance novels.
- [09:20]
A
Yeah. So why don't you introduce us and then we can, like, talk about some books.
- [09:24]
B
Welcome, everyone, to Faded mates. I'm Sarah MacLaine. I read romance novels and I write them, and I do not currently have a tattoo.
- [09:34]
A
I'm Jennifer Prokop, a romance reader and editor, and I have a James Joyce tattoo, which is silly, but whatever, I love it.
- [09:40]
B
I mean, I've written a lot of tattoos, so I feel like that counts.
- [09:43]
A
Same energy. Now, one of the things I wanted to say before we get started and talk about some books is you have to understand everybody, that if you are kind of new to romance in the, like, late part of the 2000 and tens, everybody. Tattoo artists was a really big romance job. Yeah.
- [10:02]
B
And I.
- [10:03]
A
And I think, like, actually, I remember thinking about it at the time. I don't know if I ever wrote about it. This is when I was, like, reviewing for the book. Queen is, I think, like, a big part of it. Was that what you really wanted?
- [10:16]
B
If you.
- [10:16]
A
Okay, so it was like the billionaires were happening, and what you needed was, like, a small business owner. But, like, what kind of small businesses were there?
- [10:25]
B
Butcher, bagel baker, candlestick maker? Tattoo artist.
- [10:28]
A
Yeah, tattoo artist. And so basically what every tattoo artist was, like, it was like a shortcut to, like, sort of like someone being a small business owner, but, like, make it sexy. Like, I am not kidding. And there were entire series that were based around, like, artists and tattoo shops. And, you know what I mean? Like, this was a. This was like, a very big thing. And so it's funny. And, you know, these. So for some of these books, and these are not the ones, like, I'm gonna really necessarily talk about it, Tattoo Artist is just, like a romance job, right? And so, like, for example, Carrie Ann Ryan's Montgomery Inc. Series, right? Of which there were a bazillion of them, would be an example of this, right? Where, like, this is just romance job and these are main characters and, like, this is what they do. There is a series I remember liking called, like, Men of Steel by MJ Fields, where it's like a bunch of brothers who had, like, a tattoo shop and piercing studio or something, right? So. So, I mean, this was just really a very common thing. And I think for us today, we are kind of like, well, I was like, okay, I don't wanna. Those are so ubiquitous as to sort of be really easy to find. And listen, they're all good. They're great contemporary romances.
- [11:55]
B
A lot of them are real sexy.
- [11:58]
A
But for me today, and I think for you too. We were like, okay, I'm gonna focus on instead really memorable tattoos. Right. Like, these are books where the tattoo itself or the tattooing process is something that I really remember as being part of it.
- [12:14]
B
Yeah. I mean, I have a number of tattoo artists on my list, but they are all important. Like, the tattoo is important to the story.
- [12:25]
A
Yeah. And I think. Here's the other thing I'm going to say is, like, I didn't reread a lot of these. This is from memory. So I'm going to sort of be talking about, like, a very specific thing as opposed to, like, for me, at least. I don't know if. About you. I don't have, like, full. Like, I know sometimes I'm like, okay, let me give you the whole summary of this book. I'm like, no, I, I. This was 10 years ago, but I super remember this one part of it. So, like, let's just go. Perfect.
- [12:49]
B
Do you want to start?
- [12:51]
A
Yes, I think I would like to start with a couple, you know, I. In. Let me ask you this, Sarah. Do you think in historic, first of all, I guess I was like, oh, yeah, we should talk about sextant. But I was like, maybe. Should we also talk about historical tattoo versus contemporary tattoo?
- [13:09]
B
Yes, I think we should, and I think we should, because I think historical tattoo looks a little different. Traditionally. I actually. Okay. I've never written a tattoo artist, but I have written many tattooed characters, and I don't actually think my ta. I think my. My characters with tattoos are more contemporary. Coded, like, meaning. The tattoos have meaning. They are, like, relevant to the actual romance. Like, they are. It's sort of a thing. In historical, though, tattoos are like. They're coded. They're almost always on men, on heroes. They are coded to the heroes as,
- [13:56]
A
like,
- [13:59]
B
they tag the hero as edgy as possibly bad. People who've had. There are probably two strands of tattooed historical heroes. One is not even the rake, the scoundrel. Somebody who's really been through it, came up through the rookeries and has tattoos because you have.
- [14:25]
A
Okay, you know what? When I think of this, something to say is. No. The Duke with a Dragon Tattoo by Kerrigan Byrne. Remember this book? Well, she basically.
- [14:33]
B
Do you know my story about that book? No, I gave her that title. I was like, a. A. Yeah.
- [14:42]
A
So he has amnesia. He just has a tattoo. No one knows anything about him. I don't even know any. I don't remember anything else about that book except the title. And, like, being like, right.
- [14:53]
B
Because it was the girl. It was the girl with the Dr. And Tattoo Time.
- [14:57]
A
Right, but he was coded as that. Right. Like he was dangerous.
- [15:02]
B
Yeah. This week's episode of Faded Mace is sponsored by Ellie Devine, author of the Survival guide to Alexander McBride.
- [15:11]
A
So I'm gonna say that this is like, if you wanted, like a romance version of Send help with Rachel McAdams plus Widow's Bay, then this is the book for you. So what we have here is marine biologist Willa Jo trapped on a desert island with two men, one she wishes would drop dead and the other who already did, 300 years ago. So Willa and her fellow biologist Alexander McBride were on a research boat when they had been bickering, and then during a midnight argument, Alexander actually literally pushes her overboard. And even though he claims it was an accident, and even if he did dive in to save her, these two still ended up on an uncharted island. And in order to survive, they're gonna have to work, even if it kills them. But as the two learn there may be more to each other than meets the eye, and the sparks begin to fly around more than just the campfire. The island reveals a history that includes a long lost treasure, an even more long lost tale of love, and a not as lost as they would have liked pirate. Willa discovers there's more than one way to be possessed by a man. But she'll have to determine which one is better. The one in possession of her body or the one in possession of her heart.
- [16:30]
B
Oh, my God, this sounds so fun. And if you also think that it sounds fun and you're interested in a forced proximity, possible haunting by ghosts, enemies to lovers book, then you are going to love the survival guide. You can get it right now in print, ebook, or with your monthly subscription to Kindle Unlimited. And if your podcasting app supports it, you can click on the chapter title to be taken to learn more. Thanks so much to Ellie Divine for sponsoring this week's episode. Did you ever read that? To Desire a Devil by Elizabeth Hoyt?
- [17:07]
A
No.
- [17:07]
B
Okay, so, you know Elizabeth Hoyt's fucking crazy. Like, I mean, like in the grave.
- [17:12]
A
Complimentary.
- [17:13]
B
Yeah. Parentheses, Complementary. Right. So this is in her. It's in her Legend of the Four Soldiers series. And the beginning of this book, right, is the. There's like a tea party. It's like a very sort of ordinary, normal tea party in the home of an Earl, where basically this Earl, the official Earl, has been missing for, well, seven years. And you can relinquish. The title's delivered to the next person. So he's probably been missing for six years, 11 months. Right. I can't remember, but he's been missing for a while. And he turns.
- [18:00]
A
Can we rename that the Mitch McConnel air amount of time?
- [18:04]
B
Not sexy.
- [18:05]
A
No, not at all.
- [18:08]
B
So he. So he comes home from this, like, you know, he's been in captivity somewhere, like, somewhere colonial, surely. Right. He, like, arrives home at his, like, Mayfair townhouse to this, like, perfectly perfect little, like, tea party slash garden party. I can't remember. Walks, like, bursts into the room, like, stumbles into the room, like he's just been shot. He's not. I don't think he has been shot, but he's, like, just a kind of, like, wild man. Enters in and, like, demands to see his father, like, who is, of course, dead. And, like, there is. And he is, like. He's, like, violent. He's wild. And then he, like, passes out on the floor in front of the heroine and everyone else who's drinking tea. I was not intending to talk about this book, but it is pretty great. And he has tattoos on his face. And, like, it's a real thing here. I mean, very bad.
- [19:18]
A
Yeah.
- [19:18]
B
And everybody's like, wild man, right? Like, it's like, you can't possibly be a decent person with a tattoo on your face. Now, listen, that is, unfortunately, probably the way a lot of people feel, like in 2026. But, like, so this is the one side of the, like, historical tattoos.
- [19:35]
A
Right? Right.
- [19:36]
B
And then there's the other side, which is this man has traveled.
- [19:42]
A
Right?
- [19:43]
B
And this is where you're sort of like, I don't know how I feel about this. Although I will say, you guys, I probably wrote at least one of these heroes who, like, traveled and had a tattoo. Cause, like, somebody gave him a tattoo and some, like, you know, faraway land. Because, you know, when you know better, you do better. So the. So there's that, too. It's sort of like he was a soldier. He was a. I mean, in this case, he was a soldier. And he sort of wandered off. He, like, went on walkabout and he met a bunch of people. And over the course of this time, like, he was in places where tattoos were common.
- [20:20]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:21]
B
And then they have. You know, that's a different thing. And that's sort of in historical. Like, the clothes come off and she, like, notices, like, oh, you have a bird on you, or whatever.
- [20:35]
A
Well, listen, I wanna say I think the best example of that. I think. I even think maybe the best tattoos in romance. I mean, I know I'm like, starting. I think I said this when we did the Magpy Lord. So I don't know if you remember everybody, right?
- [20:49]
B
That's great.
- [20:50]
A
It is unreal how fucking great this is. Because Crane is the one who has, like, traveled the world, right? He essentially got, like, kind of like his father was, you know, maybe trying to kill him and like, banished him to China. And he spent decades there, right? And he really unlearned everything about sort of like, British life. And then he comes back and there's, like, this. You know, the whole book is about, like, kind of. There's this element of magic in it. And he has these tattoos of these, you know, magpies on him. And what happens is after they fall in love and after they're having sex, at one point the tattoos go, like, essentially fly off of his body and onto Crane, his lover's body. I mean, it is. Let me tell you something.
- [21:39]
B
That's romance tattoo.
- [21:41]
A
That is romance tattoo. And it is awesome, though. It so, like. It's so. I think the other thing about this. This moment in the book, right, I. It's like one of my favorite scenes in romance. Like, I mean, I'm not. I'm really not kidding. Like, I love this scene so much, is, like, the whole book is them trying. Like, essentially a curse has been put on Crane or on Crane, and it's Steven's job. I think I messed up their names earlier.
- [22:08]
B
Sorry.
- [22:09]
A
It's a Crane has the tattoos and a curse has been put on him. And Steven is essentially, like, almost like a magician. He's hired to help him, like, undo the curse, like, figure out who's after him. And at, like, this moment in a book that has been super intense. It's so joyful. Yeah, right? I mean, it's so perfect. And Steven, who has been very kind of buttoned up and serious, is laughing out loud at what it feels like to have essentially the magpies, the tattoos, fly off of his lover's body in perfect, spectacular. It really is. It's great. Yeah.
- [22:47]
B
I love that scene I did, while you were talking, pull up to Desire a devil. Because I had, as I said, not been intending to discuss this. I did remember it, like, almost perfectly. Okay, but here's the best part, right? Wait, you guys, I'm just gonna read you two things. Okay? So first of all, he comes in speaking French. For some reason, that's all he can think to do. So he's speaking French. He reaches for the heroine. He staggers, grasps a table to steady himself. But the table because, of course, he's romance Hero collapses beneath his massive, enormous weight, crashing a vase of flowers to the floor. He won't stop staring at the heroine, who's like, oh, dear, oh, my. He does not say that, but is very much like, oh, dear, oh, my. Someone screams. He passes out. She gets down, pulls his head into her lap because, you know, he's passed out, this poor man. Now listen to this. She catches her breath. Jen. And then the man had been tattooed, italicized. Three stylized birds of prey flew about his right eye, savage and wild. His commanding black eyes were closed, but his brows were heavy and slightly knit, as if he disapproved of her even when unconscious. His beard was untrimmed and at least 2 inches long, but she made out a mouth beneath. Incongruously elegant, the lips firm, the upper one wide and sensuous.
- [24:36]
A
God, romance.
- [24:37]
B
And then I'm like, okay, well, that's. Obviously, we're in then.
- [24:41]
A
Sure, I'm in. I'm in.
- [24:43]
B
I honestly do not remember anything else about this book except for this beginning. And that is proof that it doesn't matter. Like, you just need a really solid beginning, and then fate of mates will.
- [24:55]
A
Talk about your book. 15 years pull us right in. Isn't that amazing?
- [24:59]
B
All right, so imagine that three birds, like, tattooed on someone's face, right?
- [25:04]
A
Well, I think that's the other thing. I always feel like sometimes in romance, the way a tattoo is described, I'm like, okay, someone with modern day tattooing technology could go ahead and pull that off. I think this guy's just gonna look like a big pen exploded on his eye, you know? But fine, like a Rorschach tattoo. What do I know? But okay, you know, what do I know?
- [25:26]
B
We're already. So listen, we're already off the rails
- [25:30]
A
here because I knew that's how this episode was going to be.
- [25:32]
B
I know.
- [25:33]
A
I was like, I'm not going to prepare for.
- [25:34]
B
I'm going to remember 12 million more of them. But that is. But that is. The difference is I don't think I have read a historical tattoo artist.
- [25:47]
A
Yeah, no, because that's not historical romance Job.
- [25:51]
B
No. Also, I just don't think it would be very sexy to watch somebody get tattooed. Although, to be honest, I've written a lot of people get sewn up, so. And that's basically the same.
- [26:00]
A
Same energy. Do you want to talk about the tattoos in the daring and the guilt.
- [26:07]
B
Now, listen, these are matching tattoos, and
- [26:09]
A
that's like a whole separate episode, a whole other.
- [26:15]
B
I mean, there is so daring. And the Duke is like a book about longing. Right? Like, it's a book. It's a book long grovel. Like, it's these two people who've known each other their literal entire lives have been in love with each other for their literal entire lives and have, like, consistently. He has consistently ruined everything. And, I mean, because he's a man, so. And the like. And basically, like, the. The structure of it is that when he was a child, he had a terrible father. This is the series. The whole series is about, like, these three boys who are put through basically, like, Hunger Games by their biological father, because he is looking for one of them to, like, take over the Dukedom when he dies. And when he wins, when Ewan wins, he is branded his father brands.
- [27:05]
A
Yeah.
- [27:05]
B
With the, like, the. The M of the seal of the family. And when finally, finally, finally, he figures his shit out and returns to win the woman he's loved his whole life. Who has loved him his whole life.
- [27:23]
A
Her whole life.
- [27:25]
B
Like, ultimately, when he, like, strips her naked, he realizes that she has inked the M that was branded onto him on her own skin in the same exact place. So they have a match and. Listen, am I proud of it? I sure am.
- [27:47]
A
As you should be.
- [27:50]
B
And I've had other, like. I've had other characters with, like, other kinds of tattoos, but, like, that's, you know.
- [27:56]
A
Yeah, no, that's, like. Right.
- [27:57]
B
That's a big one.
- [27:58]
A
Yeah, that's a really big one. I mean, I think, like, for me, too, Like. So, okay. Do you have anything? That's the only. Those are the only historicals I think I had. I really wanted to talk about Magpie.
- [28:09]
B
I will say Lisa Klepas, the Hathaways, which is not. That is in your. That's a break. That's in the vault for you. In the Hathaways, there are multiple characters who are Romany, and they all have tattoos, like, kind of culturally, like, significant ones. And I think that that's a thing that pops up in a lot of old, especially ones that cover, like, the Roma. And I will say, like, I'm not sure those are, like, culturally thought out. I think we're looking at, like, it's
- [28:47]
A
just a subset of. This is a man who Traveled. This is a stranger.
- [28:51]
B
I mean, I think it's a little more than this is a man who Traveled. I think this is exotic. You guys, I'm doing air quotes.
- [28:58]
A
You can't see me. We don't mean that in a. Yeah, yeah.
- [29:01]
B
So I think, like, you know, I Think there are. I think that if you went back to kind of the 80s, 90s and even early aughts of historicals, you would find a fairly large community of heroes who like.
- [29:18]
A
Yeah.
- [29:18]
B
Had had this kind of air quotes. Exotic experience.
- [29:22]
A
Yeah, well, we'll just leave that.
- [29:26]
B
Yeah, I mean, that's important.
- [29:28]
A
Say that it exists. Right, Exactly.
- [29:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, do that information what you will, everyone.
- [29:33]
A
All right, so now if we're going to switch to contemporary, I want to talk about storms first. Because of Jack and his storms and his sextant.
- [29:46]
B
That Jack and his sextant is. Right.
- [29:49]
A
I mean, really. Okay, moving along. Well, you know what it is too? Like, it's hit. He's got it. He's like sort of the I. It's hidden, it's behind, you know, it's underneath my clothes. You can only see it.
- [30:02]
B
He rolls up,
- [30:05]
A
right?
- [30:05]
B
And she's like, is it a compass? Like what is it? She sees it from a distance and then when she gets to it, she's like, oh, shit. It's a sextant. Which is how you measure distance on the water.
- [30:15]
A
Sure.
- [30:16]
B
So, yeah. I mean, it's hot. Listen, it's hot.
- [30:22]
A
I know.
- [30:23]
B
Is it hot because we like the idea of like men suffering like the pain of a. I don't know, Is it hot because like if you're passionate enough about something, you put it on your body. Is it?
- [30:36]
A
I mean, I think. Well, listen, I think the ones that are memorable, like, right. Like where like the. It's often it is like. Right. Like Jack's a really like buttoned up character. He just seems like the right hand man of her father. He doesn't seem like he would have any edgy edginess to him at all outside of wanting to like make money or whatever. And so, yeah, I mean, I do think in that sense, like, it's no mistake that the way that she like sees it, she like almost like can't believe it. How could this guy. There's something hidden in him that he. This guy has a tattoo, right?
- [31:10]
B
Well, I think there's also a sense
- [31:11]
A
of like
- [31:14]
B
mystery that comes with it. Like if again, romance. Tattoos mean something. Right? Tattoos in text mean something. And so I think, like, if there is something that's on your body that's like, that you've chosen to be on your body forever, it must have meaning in some way. And like, it hints at, like there's a depth here. Right. Like Jack having a sextant tells Alice that Jack knows about the sea. Right. Like he knows about water. Like, and that's all Alice. Like, Alice's, like, whole, like, Alice loves the water even though, like, she refuses to go out on it anymore.
- [31:56]
A
Right, Right, Right.
- [31:57]
B
So, like, there's something about Jack that is, like, coming home in a lot of ways for her. And the tattoo is, like, a hint of it.
- [32:04]
A
A hint of it. Right.
- [32:05]
B
And I think that's true of, like,
- [32:07]
A
it's wayfinding for her, too.
- [32:09]
B
Right, Exactly. And I think that's true of, like, again, like, going back to Daring and the Duke. The. Like, there is all there is. The other piece of it is, like, especially when they have a tattoo that is relevant to, like, the other character in the romance. Like, the magpie Lord of it all is.
- [32:29]
A
It's.
- [32:30]
B
It's beautiful because the birds choose both of them. Right. Like, it's romance. The tattoo is romance.
- [32:38]
A
Yes.
- [32:38]
B
And like, in Daring and the Duke, like, when he strips her bare and, like, discovers she's inked herself with his scars like she was his forever, whether or not he figured it out. Like, he figured out how to fix himself.
- [32:53]
A
Right.
- [32:53]
B
Like, she was. She respected herself enough that she wouldn't accept him, but it doesn't mean that he didn't leave his mark. Right. Yeah.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah.
- [33:06]
B
So I like that. I like it when one leaves the mark on the other. This week's episode of Faded Mates is sponsored by HarperCollins, publishers of Agatha Willow's Spellfire.
- [33:18]
A
Once the summer is over, I'm ready for these witchy fall romances. And this is a perfect Sapphic romance for you. So in this one, we have Bryn and Amelia. They were classmates when they were students back at the Grimoire Academy, and Bryn, then now an adult, swore that she would never go back there. But when her beloved former profess passes away and leaves her prized spellbook collection and library to Brynn, she's forced to return. She isn't planning on staying long, but then she runs into Amelia, the former queen of Rimoire Academy, and now, of course, the headmistress. Amelia begs Brynn to stay and teach the former professor's classes. And Brynn is so flustered by Amelia being, like, sort of hot and beautiful and paying attention to her that she accidentally agrees to stay for the entire semester. Amelia was always too cool for school back when they were students, but now the staff room is too small a place to hide in. As the unlikely pair spend more time together, Brynn and Amelia might just find themselves spellbound by something other than magic.
- [34:25]
B
Well, if you love a Sapphic witchy, second chance found family magical shenanigans story, then Spellfire might just be for you. You can get it right now in print, ebook or audiobook. And if your, you can click on the chapter title and be taken to learn more. Thanks to HarperCollins and to Agatha Willow for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [34:51]
A
Okay, so another one that I was thinking of again, like, it's funny cause a lot of these, I didn't even really realize how many of them dated
- [34:58]
B
back to like, that.
- [34:59]
A
Like the, you know, the golden age of romance tattoos. Talia Hibbert's first book was. Had a tattoo artist, Mary Inkmus. It was originally published in.
- [35:10]
B
I don't think I've read this one.
- [35:12]
A
Yeah, well, it was Originally published in 2017. I think it's been like, sort of re jacketed a bunch of times. It's almost like mostly a novella. And I remember, like, listen, the thing about reading this book for me was, you know, you just like, listen, we're all like that demons in IAD like just attempting books all the time, right? And then I like, like sort of started this one. I was like, who's this? Right? I mean, it was like her first book. It was like nobody even knew anything about her. And I was like, holy shit, this book is great. And what it is is Cash is a tattoo artist. And the part that's really cute about it is it really went against type. I think for me, he's just like this like, really, like, soft kind of guy. And he has a crush on the local barista. Her name's Bailey. I think she's a bit younger than him. And he is like, basically like, I don't know, like, he's like, I. You know, I. I'm a. I'm a tattoo artist. I can't be with this beautiful young thing, right? And I think he had like an abusive father. And, you know, he's just really worried that he will end up like his father. And so, you know, he is essentially like, I can't trust myself with a woman because of the things I learned. And her mom, you know, was the exact opposite. Was one of these people who like, kind of was always falling in and out of love, right? And so she's like, well, I, you know, I'm just gonna be real flighty. And so clearly we can't, you know, we're just never gonna be able to be together. And so they have to really. Like, there's a lot of internal conflict here, right? Like, we have to really battle against, like, sort of like our worst instincts and the things we grew up, you know, kind of. Kind of learning about ourselves. And I think the thing I really remember about this is, like, you know, he's like a real grump. It's like a real grumpy sunshine situation here. And she gets really frustrated by it. And instead of being like, you know, letting him be grumpy, I think I remember her just kind of being like, what's wrong with you? Like, what's going on here? And it just was like a really, really, really sweet. And, like, I said, her first book. And so, you know, it's like if. And I remember, like, sort of reading a couple of her books, like, kind of in quick succession and really kind of like, being thrilled. Like, I don't know, like, really feeling like I got on sort of even at the time, feeling like this is someone who's gonna be someone. Right? So anyway, I loved it. Mary Inkmas. I know it's Christmas, and therefore, probably, you know, whatever, Christmas in August. But, yeah, it was great.
- [37:58]
B
I mean, the.
- [38:01]
A
I like. I like that.
- [38:03]
B
I like the idea that Talia. It doesn't surprise me in some ways that Talia, who started out as such a power, like, really burst onto the scene. Like, right at the time that she started writing those started with tattoos. Like, at the time, it was so everybody was writing tattoos and, like, everybody wanted more. Like, it's just. It's such a weird thing because I actually think the industry has changed or, like, the landscape of romance has changed so much because. And I wonder. I think it's in part because, like, there's just a fire hose of text now that, like, when we're saying we're like, oh, romantasy is so big, right? Like, yes. Or like, I don't know what. Dark romance is so big or Mafia is so big. And it's kind of this, like, big, wide swath of books, right? Like, Mafia. And then there are thousands of Mafia books. And everybody's like, oh, Mafia's a huge. Mafia is huge right now. There was this time frame in romance, and it was right at the beginning of indie publishing, where there were people who were writing really fast, like Talia, and there were people who, like, there was just this sort of perfect storm of timing. The number of authors was manageable, and the books were. You know, there were a number of readers. Like, readers were voracious, and it was like, tattoos were popular, and everybody wrote tattoos. Stepbrothers were popular at one point. And everybody wrote stepbrother.
- [39:32]
A
Everybody wrote stepbrothers. And then, like, now.
- [39:34]
B
So they were these, like, Kind of micro. I mean, I wouldn't even say micro, but, like, really niche ideas. Right. Like, where it was like, everybody could write a tattoo because there weren't. That there were more of us than there used to be, but way less than there are now.
- [39:50]
A
Right, Exactly. I think that's right.
- [39:52]
B
And now. So, like, it felt like the whole industry, like, was moving, like, would pick up one of these, like, small things and run with it and that. So it doesn't surprise me that Talia started.
- [40:03]
A
Yeah. That that was, like, a good place to, like, come on board. Yeah.
- [40:06]
B
Because they're sexy and, like, it's also like, we were all looking for it. Anyway, I want to talk about. What do I want to talk about? Let's talk about Kylie Scott. I want to talk about Repeat, which is. Kylie Scott wrote a book about a woman. She wrote an amnesia romance called Repeat, and it's really. The beginning of it is terrific. So Clementine, the heroine of this book, has amnesia. It begins with her kind of walking into a tattoo parlor and asking, like, looking for a particular person in the tattoo parlor who turns out to be the owner. And everybody in the tattoo parlor recognizes her. And she's like, I'm looking for this guy. And he comes out from behind. From the back. Like, everybody's like, oh, shit. Like, it's Clementine. She's here. And he comes out from, like, you know, the back, and he's clearly just, like, pissed that she's there. And she's like, I. She, like, pulls the collar of her T shirt down and shows him a tattoo on her shoulder of violets. And she says, is this. Did you do this tattoo? And he's like, what the fuck, Clementine? Yes, of course I did the tattoo. And she's like, I'm. Did I not pay you? Like, you're really angry with me. And he's like, what the. Clementine? And she's like, we're. I have amnesia. Yeah. And I don't remember anything except for what my family has told me. And, like, they didn't. And he's like, we were in.
- [42:02]
A
Yeah.
- [42:03]
B
We lived toget. Like, we lived together. We were engaged. Like, we were. You. We were Endgame. Yeah. And she's like, what? Like, they didn't tell me anything about this because they didn't want to hurt her. They didn't want to, like, make it worse. And she's like, I've been trying to figure out. I have so many questions, and my family either can't or won't answer me, and she's like, please. I'm pretty sure you're the only person in the world who knows who I am. Like, who knows about me.
- [42:38]
A
Yeah.
- [42:39]
B
And he's like, fuck. And he. Like, he's so enraged because, like, he's really hurt by whatever it is that happened. Like, we don't know. Cause Clementine. We're in Clementine's pov. We don't know.
- [42:54]
A
Yeah. And she doesn't either, right?
- [42:56]
B
And she doesn't remember anything. And he's like. And she's like, please. And he's like, no. He, like, pushes. He's like. She's like, I just need you to answer some questions. And he's like, no. And then, like, ultimately, she kind of wears him down. And he. They exchange numbers and they start texting. And she's like, why do I have violets on me? Like, what is it about this tattoo? And there are some things he will tell her and some things he won't tell her. Cause they're too painful. And he's like, answering, like, your favorite restaurant. She's like, sometimes it's like, what's my favorite restaurant? And he's like, oh, you like the Mexican place. Wherever. And the violets are. At first, he's like, you like them. You like violets. You just like the color of violets.
- [43:45]
A
You just like them, right?
- [43:46]
B
And then it becomes clear that that's not really everything. And then as they kind of grow, she. They start to fall. I mean, this is why amnesia books are so great, because they have to fall in love again, right? Like, with and invariably an amnesia book, the whole conceit is that, like, on the second go round, the person is more authentic, right, Than they were in the first round. Like, they're more themselves than they ever have been. And in this particular case, right, like, there's. Later, she's like, I don't remember you tattooing me. And clearly, like, this is a bad memory for you. And she's like, would you do it again? Would you text? Would you give me another one? And of course, at this point, he's like, head over heels for her again.
- [44:33]
A
Of course.
- [44:33]
B
And she's like, I would like another flower. There's a dogwood tree, like, outside of our apartment.
- [44:38]
A
Our old apartment.
- [44:40]
B
And she's like, would you do the dogwood on me? And he's like, well, I would, but are you sure? Because when you remember things, you're not going. You're gonna remember the bad stuff in that apartment, too.
- [44:53]
A
Yeah.
- [44:54]
B
And she's like, no, I want the dogwood. And so he does. He tattoos the dogwood on her. And then, of course, the dogwood becomes, you know, relevant later in the book. I don't wanna spoil it. There's, like, this book edges into romantic suspense. It doesn't, like, quite get there, but there's a suspenseful thread that I don't wanna ruin. So. But there's just something so beautiful about this book because, I mean, a perfect example of what I was saying about why tattoos are meaningful. Like, in this particular case, right? Like, she. Clementine is like, I know that I would not have put something on my body that wasn't meaningful. And you did it.
- [45:37]
A
You put it there.
- [45:39]
B
I need you to explain to me all of this. Like, what is the. What is my meaning? What do I mean? Like, who am I? And, like, how did you help build me? How did you help make me? And it just. It's beautiful. I mean, we love Kylie here, and it's just a very, very powerful way of using tattoos as a structure.
- [46:05]
A
Yeah, right. Exactly. No, it's great. It's great. Okay, I am going to talk about. Written on his skin by Simone Stark. A deep cut. A deep cut. This is a epistolary romance, essentially. The way it starts out is Abby is, you know, stateside, and she. I don't know. I can't remember exactly how it worked again, didn't reread it for this episode. Just pure vibes. Everybody ends up writing a letter that gets, like, sort of like letters to soldiers type thing. And the man who receives that letter is, you know, somewhere in the world. And he is, I don't know, four or five. Yeah. Traveling man. He's, you know, like, essentially near the end of a. You know, he's lonely, doesn't have family, and he gets this letter and essentially, like, falls in love with her via letter. And I'm not mad about it at all.
- [47:08]
B
A favorite.
- [47:08]
A
His name is Rue. He's Cajun, right? And he essentially. And, like, listen, this part's great. This is, like, really not that long. It's a novella. She sends him a picture of her sister instead of her because she's like, it's not gonna matter. And I. You know, my sister's more, like, kind of classically pretty than me, and this man can, like, tell that this is not her. But, like, he basically. I think, like, it's like a picture of her and her sister, and she's like, yeah, like, the skinny, beautiful one is me. And he's like, well, that can't be right, because why am I so wildly attracted to you, you know.
- [47:45]
B
Cause I have a giant hard on
- [47:47]
A
for the other one. It's great. Now you might be wondering like where the tattoo comes in. So he leaves army and shows up at her home. And of course there's a point where she's like, we can't write anymore. And he's like, you know, figures out how to call her from Germany or something. Listen, everything you want a romance to be, this book is. And then when she. He shows up at her house and she immediately is like, I know who you are, right? I can just recognize you. I like feel like it's a spoiler, but whatever. Like we're talking about tattoos, so, you know, there's gotta be one. He's tattooed, of course, all over. Cause he's been in the military forever, long. And one of the tattoos that he has is sort of like meaningful to like their letter writing. I'll just say that. And it's fucking great. And it's 120 pages and you can just like read it and be done with it. But I think it like really leans into, I don't know, like again, like that idea that there's something that he always wanted to remember and that he also was like super committed to them in a way. Like from the very beginning, he instantly recognized insta love through the mail. It's great.
- [49:06]
B
Post service.
- [49:07]
A
Insta love. Correct. When he shows up at her house and she sees these tattoos, the payoff is so good. This week's episode of Fated Mates is brought to you by E. Kennedy, author of the YA thriller Thornbird.
- [49:26]
B
This one is for true crime fans and particularly young ones. It's about the daughter of a notorious serial killer who is racing to solve the crimes of her family's twisted past before it's too late. Ten years after her father, the infamous serial killer Gabriel Thorne, was caught, Ryan Shipley is back in Tennessee trying to lay low. No one can know who she really is, and no one can know the truth about her family and its. But as fresh eyes dig deeper into her father's case, old secrets refuse to stay buried. There are cryptic texts, There are eerie coincidences. And a chilling note that leaves everyone wondering, does Ryan know more than she is letting on about all of this? As the truth unravels, one thing becomes very clear. In a town full of secrets, Ryan might be the biggest mystery of them all. The world is hunting for answers about her father. And now this thriller is gonna be packed with twists that you won't see coming.
- [50:28]
A
All right, so if you want to check out Thornbird for yourself or a young reader in your life. It is available right now in print, ebook, or audio. If your podcast stamp supports it, you can click on the chapter title right now to be taken to buy the book. Thanks to E. Kennedy for sponsoring this week's episode.
- [50:49]
B
All right, I have two that are about covering.
- [50:58]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [50:59]
B
Things that I'm gonna start. I'm gonna do a fast one, and then I'll, like, linger on the next one. So I. And I'm gonna go fast through this because I talked about this exact book last week when we did Photographers. Photographers.
- [51:16]
A
So.
- [51:17]
B
So Nikki Sloan wrote Three Dirty Secrets, and this is an erotic novel. Last week, I talked about the photography piece of this book, but this week, I want to talk about the tattoo piece. So when I talk. So Silas, the hero of this book, is a tattoo artist, and he takes pictures of his tattoos on bodies and present does gallery shows of the photographs. So in the context of this book, like, Regan is the heroine of this book, and she works for this blindfold club, which is the sex club that all of these books are connected to. Reagan is also an undercover. We discover over the course of this book that she is undercover as an FBI agent in the club, though, like, kind of enjoys the job. So, like, it's. She's sort of like. She has two careers, and she is undercover because, like, she's trying to understand what's going on with, like, I don't know, some romance undercover nonsense. So she meets Silas, the hero here because one of the owners, the owner of the club, Joseph, who's the hero of one of the earlier books, is. Recommends her that she meet him because he does this, like, remarkable tattoo. She, like, has noticed his tattoos on Joseph, and she goes to him to meet him, and she's like, I am looking for a tattoo. And he's like, okay, well, do you have a tattoo already? And she doesn't. She's never had one before. And he's like, it's kind of weird that you are like that. Like, you've, like, sort of turned up to me. And she. Cause she's like, it doesn't matter what it is. And he's like, what? Like, again, what we were just talking about, right? Like, your first tattoo feels like it needs to be important in some way or at least, like, have meaning to you. And she's like, it doesn't matter at all. I just have a spot that I want you to put a tattoo. And she takes off her shirt for him. He's like, these two are hot for Each other, like, instantly, right? She takes off her shirt to show him the spot, and it is, you know, on her chest. And it's a gun. It's a gunshot wound. It's a bullet. A bullet wound, or, like, a scar from a bullet wound. And he instantly clocks that that's what it is.
- [53:48]
A
That that's what it is.
- [53:49]
B
And he's like, what the fuck happened? And she's like, I don't want to talk about it. Like, I just want a tattoo to cover it up. And so they, like, work together to come up with the right stylized. Because he doesn't take order. Like, she can't give him something. Like, he's an artiste.
- [54:08]
A
Yeah, right, of course.
- [54:09]
B
So, like, they work together, and he designs this, like, beautiful, kind of, like, artistic, like, sunflower to go over the scar. And he's like. And as he's, like. They're talking about it, he's like, is this the entrance or the exit? Like, he's, like, trying really hard to understand what's happening with this scar. And then he does the actual tattooing, and it is so hot. Every touch of his. Every moment of touch is, like, electric. And then he takes pictures of her, which is what I talked about last week, and it's this very beautiful. And they don't know each other, right? And so, like, he's touching her, and she's thinking to herself, like, I hope he's single, because, like, I'm, like, hot for this man. And, like, I can't stop thinking about, like, the places that he's touching me, the way he, like, looks when he's, like, focused on what he's doing, like, the whole. All of it, right? And it. He can't. And she's like. But also, like, I don't want. I don't know this man. Like, this is a stranger to me. And it's really interesting because what Nikki is doing in this scene is, like, explain. She's using the tattoo to, like, pull these two, like, together and, like, shove them into a phone booth. So you're, like, in there with these two as their, like, breath is like. You can hear their breathing. You're so close to them, and it's so intimate, and it's so sexy. And then when he takes pictures of it, it's even like, it's. This book is. It's just so hot, and it just drips with it, and it is really great. So, again, another sort of way to deploy a tattoo in such a way that you're baring yourself to another person. Especially for a character like Reagan, who is a secret. She is living a double life. She's an undercover agent. She's all these things, but he knows the depth of her, and it's great.
- [56:34]
A
Yeah. So do you want to talk about the Adrianna Anderson next, I assume. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think we probably. This was.
- [56:40]
B
Yeah, we don't have to go back
- [56:41]
A
and forth on both of our lists.
- [56:41]
B
Yeah, I'll talk about. So then Adriana Anders, who we've talked about a lot on the podcast because she writes a lot like she wrote Whiteout, which we both agree is one of the best romantic suspenses ever. She started with a series called Blank Canvas. And I remember when this book came out, it felt. I mean, it felt like nobody had ever done anything like this before.
- [57:12]
A
Yeah, that's how I would say that, too. It was a really devastatingly. Like a devastatingly emotional book. Like, just really about a really wounded woman.
- [57:25]
B
Right. I mean, really, really intense.
- [57:29]
A
Wounded and traumatized. This is an intense.
- [57:32]
B
And I would say this. This book came out. It predates content warnings, but this book is about abuse. It is about survivors in a very powerful way. You really just need to be in the right head space to get into this book.
- [57:51]
A
Yes, I would agree.
- [57:52]
B
But if you are like me and have no. Whatever book turns up, you'll read it, then you are gonna have a great time with this book because she is doing something very, very different. So the premise here is that Uma, the heroine of this book. Oh. Who is also a photographer, by the way.
- [58:13]
A
Oh, I'd forgotten that.
- [58:15]
B
I mean, I forgot that.
- [58:16]
A
Listen, I'd only read this. I've only read this book once. This book is so devastating that I, like, it was hard to read, and I read it once. I'm glad I read it, but it's not a book I've ever gone back to.
- [58:27]
B
Yeah. Well, I have read this book multiple times. So the premise.
- [58:31]
A
So the.
- [58:32]
B
Here's the deal. So it's set in a small town where there is a doctor, a woman who is able. She is a. Like, she is a. I guess she's like a form of dermatologist. I don't know. But she is a person who can remove tattoos. She, like, removes laser. She lasers tattoos. And she's a doctor. And she basically. I forget the exact structure of it, but she removes tattoos from people who have traumatic experiences with tattooing. So the heroine of this book, Uma, is on the run from one of the most sadistic husbands in romance, I would say, who abused her in like, this horrible way where anytime she did anything, quote, wrong, he would tattoo the, like, wrongdoing onto her body.
- [59:35]
A
Yeah.
- [59:35]
B
And, like, against her will.
- [59:37]
A
Everybody. I heard.
- [59:38]
B
Yeah. In tattoos that are like, a chronicle of her shame and her past.
- [59:44]
A
Yeah.
- [59:45]
B
She gets to this. So she is on the run. He is chased. Like, she is in hiding, terrified that he is going to find her. And she gets to this small town to this doctor who is like, yes, I will help you. I will help laser all of these tattoos off your body. But this is not an easy process. Sure. And she has to basically, like, move into this town for some number of months, and she does. And when she does her, she moves into, like, a. Like a kind of a house. Like, she gets a room in a home with an older woman. And they. The neighbor Ivan, is the gentlest giant ever. Like, he is. He grew up in a really tough situation. He has a lot of family trauma. He was in prison, I think, but he is, like. He's back. He has this sister who he, like, cares a ton about. There's. I mean, there's a lot of trauma in this. This book from his perspective, too. But he is this, like, big, beautiful, gentle giant who, like, is exactly what Uma needs. And, like, she is terrified of him because, of course, she is.
- [61:01]
A
Sure. Like, there is size alone. Right. He's a man. A dangerous man. Yeah.
- [61:06]
B
So it is so intense. It is so emotional. The sex is, like. She's obviously, like, very, very traumatized by sex. He cedes all control to her during these moments. He's willing. He's so patient. He's so gentle. He's perfect. And this book is such a slow creep toward romance because Adrianna knows that she has to.
- [61:42]
A
Yeah. You have to respect your. You have to respect the trauma you put on page and created for this character. Right.
- [61:50]
B
Every page of this book is, like, a half step toward these two being able to make it work. And it is really, really beautiful. It's really beautiful. And you can see in it, like, the threads of what Adrianna will eventually become as a romantic suspense writer. Like, there's so much in here to love, but it is really a book that you have to, like, take a deep breath and, like, be ready for.
- [62:18]
A
Right.
- [62:18]
B
And then it's the beginning of a series. And the. Each book in the series is again, more. It's like tattoo removal.
- [62:25]
A
Is the. Is the thread right? Yeah.
- [62:28]
B
Yeah.
- [62:30]
A
Okay. I have. I have, like, got two more books that I want to mention. How many more do you have? Which is your. What do we.
- [62:38]
B
I Think I have. Well, I just did two. Okay, so I have one more.
- [62:43]
A
Okay, so I have two more books I want to mention. And one is a book that I actually, I just went back and looked because I'm sure I've talked about it on the podcast before, but I haven't talked about it actually in years. So I'm going to go ahead and mention it. This is a book called Permanent Ink by Avon, Gayle and Piper Vaughn. And when Sarah said, like tattoos, this book, I always immediately think about it. I think to me it's like one of the. Right, remember I said, of the tattoo artist era. This book to me is one of the best of them. It's very memorable. And what it is is it's an age gap romance between two men. And so it's like a gay romance and it's real. But again, to me, the age gap of it isn't. There's kink in the book a little bit, but it also takes the fact that there's a big difference between their ages really seriously as a relationship barrier. So in this book, Poe is young, he's like 23, and he is just kind of a fuck up, to be honest with you everybody. He's a graffiti artist, so he is drawn to art. He's always been really interested in art, but it's also the kind of thing that like gets him in trouble. And so he, at this point when the book opens, he's like sort of living with his father in the, in his basement, you know, he's like, terrible. He's been, I think, arrested for graffiti, you know, so this is someone who is like, just really having a hard time, like transitioning to figuring out, like, what his adult life is gonna look like. And so after this happens, his dad goes to his. The dad is like, think Landon goes to his best friend Jericho and is basically like, I need you to give Poe a job. Right? He's been arrested. Like he has to sort of show that he can figure this out. And Jericho's like, you gotta be fucking kidding me, man. Now Jericho is again, like in his, I think 40, in his early 40s. And he has a permanent. Ink is the name of his tattoo shop. And so what happens is, you know, Poe starts working for him and there is incredible, like incredible sexual tension between the two of them. And Jericho was like, man, this is my best friend's kid. Like, I cannot, like, I cannot get involved with this, with this young man. And yet all those late nights at the tattoo shop, right? It becomes really hard for him to resist. Right. And so I think, like, the thing about the book that, like, ends up really working for me is I think, like, the relationship between, like, Jericho and Landon as friends and then, like, Landon and Poe as father and son is, like, really, like, respected as something real in the book. Right. Po is really an interesting character. I think it's really hard when you're. I think sometimes when you write, like, an age gap romance or you read one, the younger person is sort of, like, preternaturally, like, mature. And that's kind of how we, like, get around what's working. But, like, Poe's a shithead.
- [66:20]
B
Yeah.
- [66:21]
A
And we really have to, like, sort of, you know, figure out, like, how is this kid who's kind of a, you know, young adult, right, like, really gonna, like, figure this out. And what happens is when he first starts working for Jericho, it's literally just like, as, like, the receptionist, he's answering phones and, like, taking appointments. But what we understand is that, of course he's an artist, and so that Jericho is gonna help him figure out how to harness his artistic. His artistic kind of know how as a graffiti artist and transition into being a tattoo artist. And so the age gap of it, too, is like, essentially, like, how can you make a life for yourself as an artist that isn't, you know, where you don't have to, like, kind of blow up your whole life over and over again? Right. It's super hot. There is definitely a touch of daddy Kink, you know, Jericho's this amazing silver fox, you know, and it just feels really, like there's a lot of drama, but it feels really. I don't know, like, I just feel like this is a book where I really felt like everything is so perfectly. I don't know, it just, like, everything works out so perfectly. And it really is a book that, like, leans into, like, a lot of really tough, like, kind of relationship struggles in a way that felt, I don't know, like, really real. Like. So even though there's, like, I said, like, a touch of, like, daddy kink to it, this is a book that takes the romance of it also very seriously. So, anyway, I really loved it. It's Permanent Ink by Avon Gale and Piper Vaughn.
- [68:04]
B
So I feel like you gotta talk about sin and ink. You're gonna talk about tattoos. You gotta talk about Sin and Ink by Naima Simone. Listen, I am a devout Naima Simone fan, like, president of the Naima Simone fan club. And this book. Oh, it's so good.
- [68:25]
A
It's really good.
- [68:25]
B
It's a widow and her dead husband. And her dead husband's brother book, too, which is, like, so taboo and so sexy and so perfect in, like, a million trillion ways. So the premise is.
- [68:38]
A
And, like, this is the tattoo artist for both of these. Right. Like, he just owned a bakery. Like. Right. Like, the fact that it's like, tattoo artists, tattoo shops, lends itself to, like, the taboo nature of these relationships.
- [68:50]
B
Exactly. So in this book, the heroine is a widow. Very sad. She's young. She's, like, 24. She's very, very young. And she has. Was. She was. This is another example of, like, we did a book about. We did an episode about widows, I think.
- [69:09]
A
I think.
- [69:10]
B
And I must have talked about this book because first of all, her name is Eden. As though, like, come on now. Come on now. Name is Destiny.
- [69:18]
A
So
- [69:22]
B
in this book, she loved her husband. Like, they had great sex. She was wild about him. Everything was great. Right. The hero of this book
- [69:38]
A
has had
- [69:39]
B
a thing for her forever, really. And even when she was married to his brother, it was bad. He basically didn't really spend a ton of time around her because she was pretty great. And he knew that it was bad news. Right. So this is. So now he's former MMA champion because there was also. During this time, there was also an mma. A flood of MMA readers, or not readers. Heroes.
- [70:13]
A
Yeah.
- [70:14]
B
So the. So basically, Eden is. Eden's husband dies, which is. The whole family is, like, in mourning, and she needs a job. So she goes to the tattoo shop, and she basically gets a job from Nox, who is who. Like, kind of. Like, he's not into it, obviously, because he's into her, and he knows that it is only a matter of time. Like, if he. If she is in his orbit, like. Like, he is not gonna be able to keep his hands off her forever. And if he does touch her, like, he's fucked. Like, his family is gonna be like, what on earth? This is a abuse of the memory of your brother. Problem is, like, Eden is hot for it. Like, she wants to get it done to her. And, like, it has been long enough since the death that, like, she's sort of. And she's young. Like, she's like, I can't just be a single. Like, I can't just be a widow forever. Like, there is a future for me, and I know what love is, and I want it.
- [71:22]
A
Yeah.
- [71:24]
B
So. But she works in the tattoo shop, and so there's a lot of, like, tattoo discussion. There are a bunch of, like, other characters who are also tattoo artists. In here, everybody in the shop has a different, like, skill set related to tattoos. And Eden wants a tattoo, and she wants it for a lot of reasons. Like, I think one of the things that tattoos kind of represent in romance and I think in real life is a sort of, like, turning over of a new leaf. Like, I'm gonna get a tattoo. I'm coming into this tattoo shop. This is, like, a pretty standard structure. Like, I'm coming into this tattoo shop for my first tattoo, and it is because I have, like, made a decision to be someone new, to change my life in some way, right? And Eden obviously, like, wants something that is a different experience. So she goes to. She works there. She goes to Knox, and she's basically, like, I would like to have a tattoo. And there is this scene, Jen. And she's sort of been doing a lot of other things. Like, this is a piercing shop too. She got her belly button pierced, like, a month earlier. Like, she's like. She's, like, living on the edge. And so she goes to him, and she's like, I want a tattoo. And she's, like, flipping through the, like, tattoo books, and she finds this floral design that she really likes. And she's like, is this yours? And it's beautiful. It's like, you know, Naeem describes it as like, something Monet would, you know,
- [72:49]
A
put on the body.
- [72:51]
B
And he's like, that's mine. And he's like, but if you want that, like, you really should. He's like. He tries to, like, pass it off to someone else. Like, he's like. He's like, somebody else. Like, this woman in the shop, she's also good at watercolor. You should do her. You should use her. And she's like, no, I want you. And he's like, where to?
- [73:11]
A
I want you too.
- [73:12]
B
I want you, right? And he's. And this scene is so hot. Like, it's the two of them in his office, and they're, like, vibrating with sex. And she is like, I want you. And he's like, yeah, me too. And then he's like, well, show me where. And of course, she's like, I want it, like. Like, right under my boob, so I have to take my clothes off to show you. So she takes off her clothes to show him, and he sees this piercing, and he's like, when did you get your belly button pierced? She's like, oh, like, a month ago. And he's like, does it still hurt? Is it still tender? And she's like, a little bit. And then he starts to, like, play with her belly button ring, which I have never felt. I've never been. Like, this would be hot.
- [73:52]
A
Yes. Right.
- [73:53]
B
But this whole scene, I'm like. Like, it's like you're incinerating reading this.
- [73:58]
A
Yeah. It's really hard.
- [73:59]
B
And then she's like, do it again. Do it again. And then he leans down, he, like, kisses her belly button ring, and I'm like, I'm on fire. This is so hot. And then the two of them, of course, like, they start to make out. And then he's like, no, I can't. Like, it's so taboo. And it's. And then he's like, I can't even put my hands on you to give you a tattoo. Cause I want you so bad. And it is, like, the most intense, like, electric interaction in this space. Because the reality is that, like, there is nothing more intimate than somebody. It almost feels like in this book and in the others, in some of the others, too, like, the act of tattooing her is more intimate in some way than, like, just fucking her out of his system.
- [74:53]
A
Yeah. Yes. Right. Well, sure.
- [74:56]
B
Because he's leaving his mark on her.
- [74:58]
A
Correct.
- [74:58]
B
Okay, so. And speaking of that, I know you have somebody to talk about who's leaving his mark on her.
- [75:05]
A
I know. I don't know if you're. So. I do. This is the last book I want to talk about. And I. Again, I have mentioned this before, and I feel bad because it's kind of a spoiler. I just looked at, like, where this reveal is.
- [75:14]
B
It doesn't matter.
- [75:15]
A
It's a little under the bottom. It's so great. It's so hot.
- [75:17]
B
You guys, if you care about spoilers, just skip to the next chapter.
- [75:20]
A
But this is. Well, skip to the end. This is probably our last book, I think. Yeah. So, okay, so this is Reaper's Legacy by Joanna Wilde.
- [75:28]
B
You love a motorcycle club.
- [75:30]
A
You do. I love a motorcycle club. I really do. And this is a book that has, like, a really long timeline. Cause she starts off as, like, a teenager. Like, she's 17 or 18, dating this guy, Zach. And Zach has an older brother named Ruger. And she has sex with Zach, and she gets pregnant, and she's gonna be, like, a teenage mom. And the story. And, like, essentially, like, when the book starts, her little boy is, I don't know, like six or seven or eight. Right. So, you know, it's 10 years later, and what happens is, like, Zack is, like, this deadbeat dad, and he doesn't pay child support. And Ruger figures out that Sophie is struggling and, like, helps her and through, like, sort of their romance, like, you get the story of the night that she gave birth. And I think it's essentially, like, told in flashback. I don't think the book is dual timeline. Cause I typically find that really annoying. But maybe I'm wrong again. Did not reread any part of this book, but I. And what happens is she essentially is. Zack was supposed to die. I don't, like, take her to the hospital. She ends up, like, giving birth on the side of the road with Ruger. And she is, like, literally, like, squatting on the side of the road, and he is holding her, and she is, like, grabbing his shoulders, and he catches the baby, right? So the way that we sort of understand his need to take care of her through kind of the stories that get told about their past is that he has been doing this for a really long time. And she didn't even really know or realize how. And was it.
- [77:11]
B
And it's. It's.
- [77:13]
A
It's not, like, creepy. It's nice. You know, maybe he had the hots for her, but this was his brother's girlfriend, and she was too young for him anyway. And, you know, all these things, it doesn't matter. But so by the time they, like, figure it out, right?
- [77:25]
B
Like, they.
- [77:26]
A
And you know, this is a tattoo. He's a tattooed M. Motorcycle club. He's got tattoos all over. And near the very end of the book, like, literally in the last. I just looked 96%, she is, like, laying in bed, and she's kind of like, you know, what are these, like, tattoos on your shoulder? They look like. And she describes them as, like. It's actually, like, a pretty amazing description. She describes them as, like, looking like circles, like little comets, you know? And she's like, what are these? You know? And he, like, kind of laughs. He's like, okay, like, get on my lap. And they're, like, naked. They've, like, just had sex. It's, like, really sexy, right? And he's like, okay, so, you know, like, sit on my lap and, like, face me. And then what she tells him or what he tells her to do is, put your hands there. And she's like. She gets so pissed. She's like, what? You're disgusting. What kind of asshole puts, like, fingerprints on their shoulders? Like, like what? Like, women need a guide. Like what? You know what I mean? And he, like, starts, like, really cracking up. He's, like, laughing. And this is like, a really great moment between them, too, because he's of course. And, like, intense biker dude, and now he can, like, laugh with her when they're in bed together. And he's like, they're your fingerprints. Like, they're your fingerprints. Like, don't you remember the night you had Noah? And you were holding onto my shoulders when you pushed him out? And she, like, then, like, puts her hands on him and realizes, like, right. Like, it's the exact match. And he tells her this, like, sort of beautiful story about how, like, seeing her give birth, like, changed everything he knew about how the world worked and how strong people could be and that he, like, didn't want to forget. And so one. But when her, like, basically, she was holding him so tight that she, like, bruised him, and he's like. And I didn't want to forget. And so when the bruises started to fade, like, I went and had them inked so I couldn't. I couldn't forget. And I was like, it's. Honestly, it is. It's amazing. You know, it's.
- [79:29]
B
Less work, everybody.
- [79:29]
A
Oh, God. It's terrific. And like I said, I feel bad because I spoiled it. It's like, you know, but it's like, this is not a mystery in the book. It's not like she's been thinking the whole time about these fucking fingerprint, you know, tattoos. It's just something where, like, you realize, like, how long he has been in love with her, how long their story has been, and then at this moment, we get like, oh, yeah, this. He really. You changed his life, right? Oh, it's amazing. Yeah, it's great. I know. It's a great one.
- [80:00]
B
This is all I want. I just want heroes who are obsessed.
- [80:03]
A
Yes.
- [80:05]
B
So, I mean, but, like, in, like, a hot way.
- [80:08]
A
Yeah. Right. Reaper's Legacy by Joanna Wilde, everybody. So, yeah.
- [80:15]
B
What a time.
- [80:16]
A
There's so many more. We could probably do this all day, but we.
- [80:19]
B
We really could. The more. The more we're talking about it, the more I'm like, oh, wait. We could have talked about Laura Kay, and we could have talked about. Lor K has a whole tattoo shop.
- [80:27]
A
Shop, y'. All.
- [80:28]
B
Laura K's tattoo shop is like, soldiers who have been, like, fallen. Fallen soldiers. Sure. Who, like, are no longer in the military and have, like, issues, but now are tattoo tattooers, tattoo artists, and, like, hot, young, like, general's daughters who, like, like, stumble in to.
- [80:57]
A
Who need their help. Like, it's amazing.
- [81:01]
B
And then there's, like, those are those books. All those Laura K. Books are romantic suspense. Like, there's always, like, someone stalking her or somebody's like kidnapped her dad or, you know, whatever.
- [81:13]
A
Sure love it. You know what you need? A tattoo artist, ex military man to help you.
- [81:17]
B
That's exactly what you need. Thank God for them. That's the Hard Ink series, everyone. But listen, like, tattoos are great. Everybody should get them, including me. I just don't know what.
- [81:32]
A
Well, you could get Jen. I guess that'll show Eric.
- [81:38]
B
That will show Eric. Listen, I should get a firebird for you magnificent firebirds out there, Everybody. I'm Sarah McLean. I'm here with my friend Jen Pro Cup. We are fated mates and we are available to you every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. We're coming up on the very end of season eight of this thing.
- [82:04]
A
One more episode.
- [82:05]
B
Amazing that you guys still listen to us.
- [82:07]
A
No, two more episodes. Sorry, yeah, two more episodes.
- [82:11]
B
Am I prepared for. Oh, I do.
- [82:13]
A
Yes.
- [82:13]
B
Two more episodes. It's like, what are we doing? We're doing. Next week's episode is debut Historic. No, not debut. Historical.
- [82:23]
A
Historicals.
- [82:23]
B
Right. We have never talked about recent historical. So that's fun.
- [82:27]
A
And then the final episode of the
- [82:28]
B
season is a read along of my first casino book, which is called A Rogue by any other name. We're just doing the Sarah MacLaine.
- [82:38]
A
The Sarah McLean. That's how we like to end a season this summer.
- [82:43]
B
Sorry, everybody. I didn't want him. So we're going to talk about the Casino series. That's what's coming next. But listen, if you really love talking about romance novels, if you want to talk more about tattoos and romance novels, if you think we got something wrong or something, right, you can join the Patreon, where you can head over to the Discord where about, you know, a couple thousand other magnificent firebirds are hanging out talking about romance all the time. You can do that by heading over to patreon.com fatedmates where you'll sign up and you'll get access to Discord. It's super fun. We are all there hanging out. It's. You're gonna, you're gonna like it. You're gonna like it if the Discord isn't for you. Also, if you join the Patreon, you get an extra episode of the podcast. Podcast every month. Every. And it's just Jenny bantering. But some people like to hear us banter. I don't know. That's your taste. We don't judge. And then if you. But if you prefer not to do any of that, that's okay. You can find us online at Instagram and threads@thetamates pod or@blueskytamates.net you can also head over to Show Notes where every single one of the books we reference in this episode will be listed. So you know, if you missed something or you didn't have a chance to write it down, you can head over there and check those out. Also in Show Notes is, you know, any links to anything else that we sort of mention in passing tend to go there. And also on the website there's all sorts of other fun stuff that you can find. And we have collections written by the collections of romance novels based on microtropes like submitted by listeners and other people in the romance world. There's a romance reading recommends romance like a recommender for romance novels that air.
- [84:36]
A
You just click the button and it serves something up to you.
- [84:38]
B
You just grind on that button until you find a book that looks good. And it and it has every single romance novel we have ever talked about on fated mates in there. So I mean, you could be reading for the rest of time at this point, to be honest. Lucky for you, we intend to be reading for the rest of time. And we will see you next week to talk about historicals, New historicals. Can't wait. And then the week after is the last episode of the season. I can't even get over that. But here we are. And then season nine.
- [85:15]
A
Season nine.
- [85:16]
B
Anyway, we love you. We hope you're having a great summer and we'll see you next week.