BITESIZE | Do This Every Day to Feel Less Stress, More Joy and Boost Your Physical & Mental Wellbeing | Dr Dacher Keltner #591

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee
Episode: BITESIZE | Do This Every Day to Feel Less Stress, More Joy and Boost Your Physical & Mental Wellbeing | Dr Dacher Keltner (#591)
Date: October 31, 2025
Guest: Dr Dacher Keltner (Professor of Psychology, author of "Awe: The Transformative Power of Everyday Wonder")

---

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores how the experience of awe—defined as the feeling of being in the presence of something vast that transcends our understanding—can significantly improve both mental and physical wellbeing. Dr Dacher Keltner, a renowned psychologist and author, shares the latest research on awe, its benefits, and simple ways to invite more awe into our daily lives. A special focus is given to the concept of "collective effervescence," or experiencing awe in groups, as an antidote to modern stress, loneliness, and self-centeredness.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Science and Benefits of Awe

• Awe is not just a fleeting feeling but has measurable health benefits, including:

  • Strengthening the immune system, reducing inflammation, boosting cardiovascular health.
  • Activating vagal tone and lowering amygdala (threat response) activity.
  • Enhancing creativity, reducing stress, and even lessening the sensation of physical pain in older adults.
  • "Five minutes of awe gives you that suite of benefits I think are comparable to anything you can do. No kidding." – Dr Keltner [02:56]

• Common medical issues (stress, inflammation, hyperactive threat responses) can be buffered by regular experiences of awe [00:45 - 03:30].

Experiencing Awe Beyond Nature

• While many associate awe with nature, Dr Keltner broadens the perspective:

  • Awe is commonly experienced in social and cultural contexts through what’s termed "collective effervescence."
  • Collective effervescence: the shared emotional excitement felt when moving or acting in unison (e.g., concerts, sports games, religious rituals, group exercise, singing in choirs) [03:49 - 06:59].

• "Collective movement makes you have a shared consciousness... And then this electric feeling that moves over you that makes you feel like you’re united." – Dr Keltner [05:01]

The Power of Group Activities

• Dr Chatterjee and Dr Keltner discuss the decline in community and why group experiences matter:

  • Digital and solo practices can’t fully replace the emotional impact of being together physically.
  • Suggestions to overcome loneliness include joining group classes or communal activities—even if most of your practice is at home online [07:25 - 08:54].
  • "Does solitary activity on zoom compare to collective activity of the same thing? We know in the education world it does not." – Dr Keltner [08:54]

• Examples of overlooked collective awe:

  • Game nights, listening to records together, communal yoga classes, sharing awe stories at work [09:15 - 10:54].
  • "These are little three to five minute shifts...be it eating or sharing a nice quote or awe story from work that are easy to do and bring us some of the benefits of awe." – Dr Keltner [11:16]

The “Awe Walk” and Simple Practices

• The concept and impact of an “awe walk”:
  • Participants (particularly elderly) who took weekly awe walks for 8 weeks felt less distress, more awe, and greater connection to their surroundings [11:51 - 13:36].
  • "Go to someplace that's a little mysterious and look at small things... and vast things... That's all they did." – Dr Keltner [12:21]
  • Self-focused selfies became less about themselves, more about the environment.

Awe as the Antidote to Narcissism & Disconnection

• Modern society’s excessive self-focus (fueled by individualism and digital culture) is described as a root cause of mental health struggles.
  • Awe helps shift focus outward, reminding us of our smallness but also our connection to something greater.
  • "Awe seems to be the perfect antidote to everything we're struggling with today, which a lot of it is simply inward focus. Me, me, me." – Dr Chatterjee [13:55]
  • "When you feel awe, just ask yourself, what am I part of here?... I'm part of something really large like fellow humans, an ecosystem, or something about culture. And we need that today." – Dr Keltner [14:36]

The Eight Wonders—Different Pathways to Awe

• Awe isn’t a one-size-fits-all experience; Dr Keltner identifies eight “wonders” or avenues for awe:

  • Moral beauty (acts of kindness & courage)
  • Nature
  • Collective movement (e.g. sports, dance)
  • Music
  • Visual design
  • Spirituality/religion
  • Epiphanies/big ideas
  • Life and death [16:13 - 18:20]

• Dr Keltner notes cultural and personal differences: what moves one person may not move another (some experience awe in crowds, others in solitude or through music) [18:20 - 19:38].

  • "Humans are remarkably varying... And that's one of the mysteries to me of Awe is we find it in such unique ways, but also universal ways." – Dr Keltner [19:29]

• Awe is not rare or elusive—“Just go get it, you know.” [19:51]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Five minutes of awe gives you that suite of benefits I think are comparable to anything you can do. No kidding.” – Dr Keltner [02:56]
• “Collective movement makes you have a shared consciousness… this electric feeling that makes you feel like you’re united.” – Dr Keltner [05:01]
• “One of the powerful qualities of awe is that it takes us outside of ourselves to something much bigger and greater.” – Dr Chatterjee [08:53]
• “The central challenge of the mental health crises of today is too much self focus. And we're not going to find awe with zoom and smartphones.” – Dr Keltner [09:38]
• “You can pray by yourself, but there's something about praying with people who are praying with you together… doing dance together, yoga together, there's no substitute.” – Dr Keltner [10:01]
• “These are little three- to five-minute shifts in how we do things… that are easy to do and bring us some of the benefits of awe.” – Dr Keltner [11:16]
• "[In our awe walk study,] the selfies, the self gets smaller and starts to fade off to the side and they're taking in more of the environment." – Dr Keltner [13:10]
• "Awe helps us connect with life, connect with something bigger, remind us of our insignificance really in this kind of ego focused world." – Dr Chatterjee [13:55]
• “When you feel awe, just ask yourself, what am I part of here?... I'm part of something really large like fellow humans, an ecosystem, or something about culture.” – Dr Keltner [14:36]
• “Awe sounds sublime and ineffable or hard to find. It’s very easy to find. There’s everyday awe and wonder. Just go get it, you know.” – Dr Keltner [19:51]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:45 – 03:30: Science-backed benefits of awe; medical implications
• 03:49 – 06:59: The power and examples of collective effervescence
• 07:25 – 08:54: Community and group experience vs. digital/solo alternatives
• 09:38 – 10:54: The role of self-focus and suggestions to cultivate awe daily
• 11:51 – 13:36: Awe walks—research, instructions, outcomes
• 13:55 – 14:36: Awe as antidote to self-centeredness and mental health struggles
• 16:13 – 18:20: The Eight Wonders—multiple paths to awe
• 18:20 – 19:38: Individual differences in awe experiences

---

Conclusion

Dr Keltner and Dr Chatterjee make a compelling case for seeking out small, daily doses of awe to transform stress, loneliness, and health. Awe can be found not just in grand natural settings, but in music, moral beauty, group rituals, and everyday moments—with profound benefits for body and mind. The key message: it’s easy and essential to find awe, especially with others, in order to live a happier, more connected life.

---

If you found this insightful, explore the full episode or try an “awe walk” or group activity this week to experience these benefits firsthand!

Transcript

[A]

Today's bite sized episode is sponsored by the brand new formulation of AG1, the daily health drink that has been in my own life for over six years now. Some of the upgrades in the new formula include more magnesium which supports muscle function and the ability of our nervous systems to relax. And it also now contains five instead of two strains of bacteria to reflect the latest advancements in microbiome science. It also contains key nutrients in bioavailable forms the body can easily and readily utilize, maximizing their potential benefits. AG1 makes it simple to be the best version of you over 70 ingredients, one scoop once a day for less than a cup of coffee. And right now AG1 are giving my audience a special offer worth 58 pounds which is almost 80 US dollars. You will get 10 free travel packs and an awesome welcome kit with your first subscription. To take advantage go to drinkag1.comlivemore welcome to Feel Better Live More bite size, your weekly dose of positivity and optimism to get you ready for the weekend. Today's clip is from episode 340 of the podcast with Dr. Dakar Keltner, professor of psychology and author of the book Awe the Transformative Power of Everyday Wonder. Now Dakar has spent decades studying the science of happiness and in this clip he shares how experiencing awe can transform our physical and mental well being and why One of the ways we can access this best is is through something called collective effervescence. If I think about the common problems that exist medically, a lot of them are related to inflammation, the immune system, stress, the amygdala, the threat response part of the brain being overactive, right? And you have just beautifully explained that awe can buffer us against those can be an antidote to many of the problems and things that we're suffering from in the modern world. So I agree with you. My awe is critical.

[B]

Every time I teach a large group of people about happiness, I'll have a mom come to me especially post pandemic and they're like, you know, my 17 year old son is in real deep distress and what do I do? And I turn to the science of happiness and I say man, find some social connections, get them outdoors, give them a way to find meaning or reflect on life. And now awe. Awe helps your immune system. Reducing inflammation helps your cardiovascular system, activates vagal tone, reduces activation in the amygdala, a threat related region in the brain, helps you think more clearly and more creatively, makes you feel like you have less stress in life. For 75 years old and older, it Makes you feel less physical pain. Right. I could go on. I mean, these are all studies where five minutes of awe. Five minutes gives you that suite of benefits that I think are comparable to anything you can do. No kidding. And we didn't know that. And now it's starting to spread. Right. Just to be thinking about, where are those five minutes of awe?

[A]

Yeah. You've really broadened out my perception of what awe is, honestly. Like, if someone had said to me before reading your book, when do you experience awe? I probably would have said, in nature.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[A]

But one of my favorite chances was the one on collective effervescence. One of my favorite terms. I discovered it a couple of years ago. There's a New York Times article on collective effervescence. Yeah, cool. I thought, wow, what a cool term. I'd never heard of that before. And. And then when I open up your book, and it's like, oh, you've written a chapter on this. Right. So it's one of those categories of awe. Right. What is it? How can people experience it? And why is it so beneficial?

[B]

Thank you for calling attention to that. It was something that emerged in our studies. Very hard to study scientifically, collective effervescence. But it emerged as just a surprising way to find awe. That is a term that the French sociologist Emile Durkheim coined when he was trying to figure out, like William James did and others, like, what is the core subjective feeling of religion? And he called it collective effervescence. And it's when you start moving in unison or you're synchronizing your movements. Think of a ritual in a church. Clapping, cheering at a football game, dancing together, doing rituals before a basketball game. Collective movement. Then you start to realize collective movement makes you have a shared consciousness. So you're all thinking about the same thing. The religious figure leading the ritual, the football players on the pitch, the movements at a concert, the band singing, and you're all cheering. A political speech. Right. And then emotion starts taking over where people are like, I got this rush of chills. I was crying. I was almost ecstatic. I was feeling like I was one with everybody around me. And that's collective effervescence, which is movement. Attention. Shared attention. And then this electric feeling that moves over you that makes you feel like you're united. One of the amazing things about thinking about these as context of awe, which they are, is this allows us to find the deeper meaning in these wonderful venues. Like, there are studies that suggest, like, you know, your football team is almost on par With a church, it gives you that much meaning and sense of community and sense of history. Right. Following music and going to musical venues. I love the. The work on sort of spontaneous forms of collective effervescence that, you know, people observe, like pedestrians moving through streets and being at festivals or farmer's markets. You know, I was just with my daughter Natalie at a farmer's market, and it felt there was collective effervescence. We were all moving together, getting the street, Indian food, sharing it in a park. Right. That was awesome. And so this framework of awe starts to allow us to see the richness of these common venues of awe that we can enjoy. A couple of examples that have come to me in doing this work. One is singing together. There are all these singing groups out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I give talks on awe, someone always comes up with tears in their eyes. Like, you've got to study choirs because it's all collective effervescence. Right. And a lot of the. It's interesting, a lot of the informal help your body movements like yoga. 20 million people practice yoga in the United States, and a lot of it's collective effervescence. You're doing motions together, your attention is shared and you start to feel this joy.

[A]

Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that. One of the things that I've been, I guess, concerned with a little bit for a while, you know, a lot of people are struggling to find that sense of community.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

And one of the things I said literally a few days ago at one of my talks was, look, what do you like doing?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Someone said yoga. I said, okay, you like yoga. One of the big problems over the last few years is that because of some of the restrictions, a lot of this stuff has gone online.

[B]

I know, right?

[A]

So let's take yoga as an example. For many people, a phenomenal practice that helps them physically, mentally, emotionally. And a lot of people now, in our bid to save time and be more efficient, we go on the zoom class. We do a 10, 15 minute YouTube video. And again, that can have a role. But I say, listen, if that's you sign up for a class as well. Do 10 minutes a day on YouTube. Sure, that's great. But make sure once a week, you sign up and you go to the class because, you know, that's one of the tips I give people that are struggling with loneliness is, you know, what hobby do you have, what passion do you like? Is there a local class? Go there, you'll meet other people like you. Right. So it's a very clear message. Throughout your book that one of the powerful qualities of awe is that it takes us outside of ourselves to something much bigger and greater.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. You've just spoken to a very important empirical question. Does solitary activity on zoom compare to collective activity of the same thing? We know in the education world it does not. And zoom classrooms for most people are a disaster. You need the collective mind and so forth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love your recommendation, Rangan. Jane Goodall, awe, she saw it in chimpanzees. It is the beginning of our sense of spirit because it allows us to be amazed at things outside of ourself. And the central challenge of the mental health crises of today is too much self focus. And we're not going to find awe with zoom and smartphones where we're, you know, we got to get with other people. You know, I was with a minister a couple of weeks ago, Malcolm Clemens, young, remarkable mind. And he said, you know, and I suspect this is true of a lot of the domains that you refer to. You can pray by yourself, but there's something about praying with people who are praying with you together. He said, and there's a lot of spiritual traditions around that, you know, playing ping pong with other groups of people, doing dance together, doing yoga together, there's no substitute. And the answer for that is awe that it makes you realize your collective. Like Jane Goodall said. And you said, I'm amazed at things outside of myself. But what I will take note of, you know, Rangan, is a lot of our 20 year olds and 25 year olds and 30 year olds feel that viscerally right. And a lot of collective things are starting to emerge again. And game nights are really popular where you play with, you know, actual games with people physically present listening to vinyl albums, right? Where you get back to that ritual of listening to music together. So it's too strong to take out of our experience. And I think it's coming back, but critical for us to think about. But one of the really exciting things about awe is it's easy to practice. And it may not sound like it, but it is. So when I teach healthcare providers, which I do, a lot of, one of the things they do is they say, I only have 20 minutes for lunch because as you know, they work very hard and they're busy. But I'll go sit in the garden or I'll go on a walk with my colleagues when I have this next conversation, or we will share awe stories in a huddle. And you can do this anywhere. These are little three to five minute Shifts in how we do things, be it eating or sharing a nice quote or an awe story from work that are easy to do. And bring us some of the benefits of awe.

[A]

You've done some studies, I think on something called an awe walk. Yeah. So tell us about that.

[B]

And there are thousands of people leading awe walks around the world right now, which makes me really grateful. Yeah. You know, that study begins actually with the great British tradition of walking. And the Brits walk in spectacular ways. You know. And then Rebecca Solnit, a brilliant writer, did this book on wandering and just how much we derive meaning from walking. And she called it, she really talked about it in terms of awe. Like when you walk, your body is moving through space, but you feel like you're part of the environment, a path, et cetera and a tradition. And so in our study we, we had people who are 75 years old or older, which is an age in the United States where people start to feel more anxious and depressed because people are dying around them. And so we just once a week they went out and did an awe walk. And I love this because it's really simple. Go to someplace that's a little mysterious and look at small things like this rock on your table and vast things like your whole studio. That's all they did. And they did it once a week for eight weeks. We had a nice control condition, a vigorous walk condition. And our 75 year old participants in the awe walk felt less distress. They felt more awe over time. And we had them take selfies out on the walk and their selfies, the self gets smaller and starts to fade off to the side and they're taking in more of the environment. So they're just aware of what's, they're amazed at things outside of themselves. And so you put that together with a lot of the data on just walking outside to find awe is so good for you. And it's easy to do anywhere.

[A]

Yeah. It again speaks to this kind of through line which is it takes us outside of ourselves. It connects us to something much greater than our individualistic, potentially ego driven existence. Awe seems to be the perfect antidote to everything we're struggling with today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which a lot of it is simply inward focus. Me, me, me. I think it actually really helps us connect with life, connect with something bigger. You know, remind us of our insignificance really in this kind of ego focused world where there appears to be more and more people exhibiting narcissistic traits. This is the power of awe. Wherever you experience it, isn't it that actually it takes you out of yourself.

[B]

You know, thank you for that summary. You know, Rangan, you know, one of the things you can take from this book is there are these eight wonders that hint to us that they're big things to be part of. Music and life and death and moral beauty and just, you know, when you feel awe, just ask yourself, what am I part of here? You know, and it usually points you towards. It makes you realize like I'm just a small thing that actually is okay, that's actually true. But I'm part of something really large like fellow humans, you know, an ecosystem or something about culture. And we need that today. You know, like you said earlier, a lot of the health challenges come out of this internal individual focus that has just blown up today. And awe moves us towards the things that are amazing outside of ourselves. And I think if you look at the broad trends that we've been noting in our largely globalized Western European cultures and now increasingly throughout the world, it's self focused, it's individualistic, it's more materialistic. We forget the systems of people. We're part of the family and the culture. And it's awe inspiring to reflect on that.

[A]

It really is. And of course, nature is a really good way to access that. What is it that the definition you put in the book was or is the feeling of being in the presence of something vast that transcends your current understanding of the world?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I don't know what your experience has been going around the world talking about this, but you show that yes, nature is one way to experience all, but there's eight ways that you've defined. So I came to the conclusion that, oh wow, awe is around me every single day, in possibly every single interaction, if I can train myself to see it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, thank you for bringing into focus, I think the two biggest surprises that blew my mind. You know, we, I too like awe is nature. You know, we're Western European. Then I thought, ah, I know the spiritual traditions. Awe is spirituality and mysticism. And so we gather these stories from 26 countries all over the world. And awe comes to us through eight paths, which I call the eight wonders. And I'll just quickly. The moral beauty of people, their kindness and courage. I teach medical doctors and once they think about this, they think, wow, I just gave a patient a terminal diagnosis and they held my hand and said, thank you for what you do. That's moral courage and beauty, nature, collective movement, you know. And what I love about this is like sports fans, like Arsenal fans, or, you know, they're like, I love sports, are almost spiritual. And that's because of awe. And then you get to the culture ones, which are music, visual design and spirituality. And then the two rangen. That really caught me off guard. Epiphanies, big ideas like, you know, wow, the web of life. That's the central idea in evolution, right. That Darwin was blown off the map by. We're all part of this what he called a tangled bank of life. We're all interacting, different species. And then the final one, life and death. You know, that. You know, Rangan, when I started teaching awe8, 10 years ago, to audiences with people over the age of 55, there would always be a hand that would raise and the person would say, you know, I felt awe holding my sister's hand when she died, you know, and just looking at that mystery, feeling it. And so lo and behold, around the world we really get into a state of awe thinking about life and death. We all have our pathways to awe, and I think the eight wonders are useful. And we can all understand other people's pathways when cast within this broader framework of what humans find in awe.

[A]

One of the questions I had around awe, Dhaka is like, let's say, the Grand Canyon, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could put 10 different people in the Grand Canyon and yes, you would hope that everyone would feel awe, but some people possibly wouldn't. Right. So it's not the environment that is creating the awe, it's our approach to that environment. Right?

[B]

Yeah. That's so important, Rangan, to bring this into our focus here. And I think there are wonderful insights to be gleaned from those eight wonders of life we talked about. You know, we started to find, if you ask people like, where do you tear up and get the goosebumps and cry and feel awe and wonder? And humans are remarkably varying. It's just a fundamental truth about who we are. And for some people, it's busy cities and the stream of pedestrians and other people, it is sitting by trees by themselves in the quiet. And for some people, it's classical music. And for other people, Michael Pollan just, you know, when he interviewed me, he's like, I was just at a Pussy Riot show and I felt awe. You know, punk rock, for some people it's wild art, for other people, it's still life's. Right? We are all varying. And music's a great case study of that. And I think our audience should be asking this question of themselves, which is, think of a time when you last got goosebumps and teared up at a piece of music. And most people have had that kind of experience. And that will bring you benefits. And that's one of the mysteries to me of Awe is we find it in such unique ways, but also universal ways. Right? And I would encourage our listeners. You know, awe sounds sublime and ineffable or hard to find. It's very easy to find. There's everyday awe and wonder. Just go get it, you know.

[A]

Yeah Hope you enjoyed that Bite Sized clip. Do spread the love by sharing this episode with your friends and family. And if you want more, why not go back and listen to the original full conversation with my guest. If you enjoyed this episode, I think you will really enjoy my Bite sized Friday email. It's called the Friday five and each week I share things that I do not share on social media. It contains five short doses of positivity, articles or books that I'm reading, quotes that I'm thinking about, exciting research I've come across, and so much more. I really think you're going to love it. The goal is for it to be a small yet powerful dose of feel. Good. To get you ready for the weekend, you can sign up for it free of charge@doctor check chatterjee.com Friday 5. Hope you have a wonderful weekend. Make sure you have pressed subscribe and I'll be back next week with my long form conversational Wednesday and the latest episode of Bite Science. Next Friday.