Podcast Summary

Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee

Episode: BITESIZE | What Hunter-Gatherers Can Teach Us About Movement, Exercise and Ageing Well
Guest: Professor Daniel Lieberman
Host: Dr Rangan Chatterjee
Date: February 13, 2026

Episode Overview

This Bite Size episode explores the evolutionary roots of human movement and why modern notions of “exercise” often feel unnatural and difficult to sustain. Professor Daniel Lieberman, evolutionary biologist and author of Exercised: Why Something We Never Evolved to Do Is Healthy and Rewarding, shares deep insights from anthropology and health sciences, challenging common beliefs about exercise, ageing, and how we can create sustainable habits by looking to our hunter-gatherer ancestry.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Paradox of Exercise: Why We Don’t Naturally Want to Do It

• Modern Guilt About Inactivity: Despite widespread knowledge about the benefits of exercise, most people struggle to exercise regularly and often blame themselves, leading to unnecessary guilt.

  “So we've all got the knowledge that we probably should be moving more. Yet so many of us are simply unable to put that into action regularly and they start to blame themselves. They start to feel guilty, which is a huge problem...” – Dr Rangan Chatterjee (02:25)

• Exercise is a Modern Concept:
  Lieberman recounts an anecdote from fieldwork among the Tarahumara:

  “This guy just looked at me, and... it's like, why would anybody run if they didn't have to?... our concept of exercise is alien to most people.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (03:26)

• Evolutionary Instincts: We evolved to avoid unnecessary exertion, unless it was necessary (work, survival) or rewarding (play, ritual). Most daily physical activity among hunter-gatherers is out of necessity, not purpose-built exercise.

2. Energy Conservation: Why We Take the Escalator

• Instinct to Conserve Energy:

  “Of course, it's an instinct to take the escalator. There are no escalators in the Stone Age...when there's a staircase next to an escalator, only less than 5% of people take the staircase... Because it's an instinct to, if you can save energy, why wouldn't you?” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (06:38)

• Lieberman notes this is not unique to modern humans; our ancestors would have done the same.

3. Overcoming Shame and Medicalization of Exercise

• Exercise as a ‘Magic Pill’: Lieberman notes that exercise has become overly medicalized, prescribed like a medicine or “pill,” which misses the point and isn't motivating for most people.

  “We've medicalized exercise. We consider it a pill...nobody likes to… it doesn't solve that particular problem of overcoming that barrier.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (07:38)

• Cultural Narratives: The need to change the framing around exercise. You don't have to run marathons or do extreme sports – some movement is always better than none.

4. Movement in Context: What Our Ancestors Actually Did

• Purpose and Side Effects:

  “The movements that...our ancestors used to do regularly… they're not doing those things for the purpose of health and wellbeing, like that's a byproduct of doing what they need to do in order to survive.” – Dr Rangan Chatterjee (09:11)

• Not Just Survival: Evolutionary Benefits of Movement:

  “There was special selection in human evolution for exercise to be unusually potent for enabling us to live long and healthy lives... we've undergone selection for that physical activity to turn on all kinds of repair and maintenance mechanisms that keep us healthy.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (11:15)

• The Human Grandparent Phenomenon: Unlike most animals, human grandparents remain physically active and play crucial roles in their societies – an evolutionary adaptation that supports both family survival and individual health late in life.

5. Ageing and Physical Activity

• The Retirement Mismatch:

  “That's quite alien to the common belief, I would say, certainly in Western cultures, that you can kind of slow down a bit as you get older. And we have this modern phenomena. That's retirement, Right?” – Dr Rangan Chatterjee (13:45)

• In traditional societies, older adults remain active; this keeps their repair and maintenance functions running, explaining why inactivity is linked to so many chronic diseases.

6. The Step Count Myth

• 10,000 Steps Origin:

  “That 10,000 steps a day came from...an accelerometer...in Japan... 10,000 is an auspicious number in Japanese...and turns out it's actually not that bad...But we've again, we've kind of medicalized it.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (15:35)

• Dose-Response Relationship:
  “3,000 steps is better than 1,000, and 5,000 is better than 3,000... it kind of evens out starting around 7,000 steps.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (15:57, 17:09)
• No One-Size-Fits-All: Benefits vary greatly between individuals; more is generally better, but optimal numbers are misleading.

7. What Can We Learn From Hunter-Gatherers?

• Normal Range of Human Movement: Hunter-gatherers average 15-20,000 steps a day, but this is not a prescription.
• Mismatch Diseases: Chronic illnesses emerge when there’s a mismatch between our evolved behaviors and modern environments (“mismatch disease”).
• Incremental Change:

  “If you're completely sedentary, just taking a few steps, more steps a day, climbing the stairs, parking your car further away…anything is better than nothing. More is better. At a certain point, the benefits seem to tail off.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (18:13)

8. Purposeful Movement and Enjoyment

• Making Movement Meaningful: Instead of treating exercise as a chore or “pill,” embed it in daily life as play, walking, or social activity.

  “We now have created this weird thing called exercise...there's no purpose for it other than for the sake of exercise. And that is a kind of weird thing. And because it's not fun, we try to divert ourselves while we're doing it... That's why people enjoy sports, right? Because... you now have a purpose.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (21:50, 22:43)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Guilt and Normalcy:

  “People feel bad about themselves...they're actually normal. Right. They're completely normal human beings.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (07:20)

• On Energy Conservation:

  “It's an instinct to take the escalator... if you can save energy, why wouldn't you?” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (06:38)

• On Physical Activity as Essential, Not Optional:

  “Instead of thinking of exercise as medicine, I would think of inactivity as being like poison or like not having air.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (12:50)

• On Step Counts:

  “There is no one number of steps to take per day...trying to come up with a number, yeah, an optimum is not only impossible, I think it actually sends an incorrect message...” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (18:13)

• On Why the Evolutionary Perspective Matters:

  “Nothing makes sense in biology except in the light of evolution.” – Prof. Daniel Lieberman (21:29)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – 02:25: Dr Chatterjee introduces the paradox of exercise motivation.
• 03:12 – 05:49: Lieberman shares his Tarahumara field anecdote; problems with the concept of "exercise."
• 05:49 – 07:05: Why most people instinctively take the escalator; cross-cultural consistency.
• 07:17 – 08:42: Shame and blame around inactivity; medicalization of exercise.
• 08:56 – 09:36: No need for excessive or extreme exercise.
• 09:36 – 12:50: Evolutionary adaptations for movement; longevity through activity, not retirement.
• 13:18 – 15:22: Healthspan vs. lifespan; why health declines with inactivity.
• 15:22 – 17:30: The 10,000 steps myth, dose-response and individual variation.
• 18:04 – 21:49: Hunter-gatherer activity levels, mismatch diseases, incremental gains; problems of prescribed movement.
• 21:50 – 23:13: Purposeful movement, embedding activity into life, the pleasure of meaningful movement.

Takeaway Messages

• You are not lazy or abnormal if you struggle to exercise—modern environments conflict with deep-seated evolutionary instincts.
• Any amount of movement is better than none; pursue enjoyable, purposeful activity rather than prescribed exercise doses.
• Leveraging our evolutionary history can help us design movement-friendly environments and habits for healthier, longer lives.
• Let go of guilt, give “exercise” a purpose, and prioritize regular movement for both physical and mental wellbeing.