← Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee
Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee
How to Build Inner Strength, Stay Grounded and Keep Going Through Life’s Challenges with Sifan Hassan #584
01:23:33
It’s easy to be inspired by success, but the real lessons often lie in what it took to get there. After all, true strength isn’t just physical; it’s found in how we face change, challenge and the unknown.
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- [00:01]
A
I say actually you greater because of failure. The more you try. The more you fail, the more you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only 12 times, you may win 12 times. But if I try 10 times, I fail 5 times, I win 5 times. Who is the winner? I'm winner. I win more than you. So it's like this.
- [00:23]
B
Hey guys, how you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee and this is my podcast Feel Better Live More it's so easy to be inspired by success, but the real lessons often lie in what it took to get there. After all, true strength is not just physical. It's found in how we deal with change, manage adversity and embrace the unknown. This week I sit down with one of the most extraordinary athletes of our time, Safan Hassan. Born in Ethiopia and raised in the Netherlands as a refugee, she has gone on to become a two time world champion, an Olympic medalist and the holder of multiple European championship titles. Her journey from refugee to Olympic and world champion has captivated the world, and I would say that Stefan is celebrated not only for her versatility and achievements, but also for her spirit and the inspiring way in which she approaches life. In our conversation, we explore how growing up in Ethiopia and later seeking asylum in the Netherlands shaped her inner strength and outlook, the role that running has played in navigating life in a new country, and how it offered her focus, purpose and belonging why failure, fear and self doubt have been central to her journey and how she she's learned to embrace them as essential parts of growth and performance how she continues to find joy in running despite the pressures of elite sports why staying curious matters more to her than winning why she sees rest, sleep and routine as forms of discipline that keep her grounded, and how she has managed to let go of perfection and find peace with who she is. You simply do not need to be an athlete to connect with Stefan's story. It's a story of courage, faith and relentless curiosity, and her outlook on life is a beautiful example of what it means to stay rooted in who we are, even when life takes us far from where we began. You're someone who has taken the running world by storm over the past few years and you must have experienced that there is a real outpouring of love for you all over the world. Why do you think that is?
- [03:04]
A
I think because everybody have seen people do just the same things for me when I'm running a kind of mix. I go up and down sometimes around 50100 meter marathon. And people think, they always thought, oh, when athletes move to the marathon, it is hard to back to the track they have never done. But I'm just very curious. I was like, okay, what if I did this? What if I do? So I think maybe because I run marathon and go back to track and then I go run marathon and go back to the track. The first times I think when the people shocked In London Marathon, 20, 23, 23, when I stopped, right. And I went the race. Then I did, after two months I did some track ra and they were like, oh, that's possible. Then I did world championship after three months. And then I get silver, I think silver, 1500 meter or something. And then after six weeks I did Chicago marathon. And then I get ran the fastest second time ever. And maybe that's why people think it's like, this is something crazy.
- [04:13]
B
Yeah, I think there's a couple of things people really like about you. Certainly speaking from my own experience, you run with a real carefree joy, right? You smile a lot and it's just a beautiful smile from the inside of you that I think people are not used to seeing when athletes compete. So I think that's one reason. This curiosity, this joy. I think also this idea that you constantly move out of your comfort zone. You're not afraid to fail at something. You're not afraid to say, yeah, you know what? I know most athletes don't do this, but I'm going to go from the 5k to the marathon. I think that's also something that people really admire and respect about you. Where do you think that comes from?
- [05:05]
A
It could be experience, you know. So I think this could be something also inside. Just because I come as a young lady to Netherland and that's also just kind of out of comfort as well. And then I was like, I think around age 20 something I have to take step my life for big, big picture. I was taught 2016, the years of Rio. I get injured before the race. Like I thought, I'm not even going to go Rio. And after that I was really depressed. I was so angry. And I even had it running. I used to lock the door and not talk to anyone. I thought, you know, this is not healthy. And you know, I'm also Muslim. And according to us, like when something happened to you, you should be grateful. You should say, oh, I'm healthy, I have health. This, this. You always look the people down to you. You can't complain too much about life. So I thought, oh, this is also against My religion, that's not good. I say to myself, oh, I'm going to stop running. I think I was like, I don't know, I was like, I decide to go holiday by myself. Like for a month, I go Morocco, I go somewhere else. And after that, oh, I want to run. But when I want to run, I really want to change myself whether what is happening. I just have fun, I just want to see. And then I decide to also go to America already build friendship in Netherlands. I have good friend. I have already home, family, everything. And I decided, oh, I'm going to go to America. So I talk to everybody. Many people say, actually, look, Sifa, you are already in Diamond Link. Top number one or number two. Every race, even 800, 1500 meters, 5 kilometer, wherever you race, you are top three. If you go move from this coach, what if you don't succeed? So I have to decide, I have to think, oh, if this thing, this is success, I'm going to have filler. So I look at myself, okay, when I go, like later, when I'm 55 years, do I go back look it and this thing is not good to do or I should done this. I say, I look at it like, okay, what if I don't get success? But still my brain want to try that, you know, when I don't want to regret it later. Still it doesn't matter. I did everything. So the hardest moment when I'm already, you are success, you think, oh, this is the way I'm always number three, number two, sometimes winning. But I just thought, okay, even if I don't win, I will take some step to go to us.
- [07:38]
B
Yeah. This is so interesting because many people play it safe in life, don't they? They get, let's say, a degree of success. I'm not talking about athletics and running now, but anything, they get to a degree of success and then they stay locked where they are. They don't want to push themselves beyond that. What if they lose what they've got?
- [07:58]
A
Yeah, you get it my hunting.
- [08:00]
B
Yeah. And that's the thing. I, you know, when I listen to you talk and hear your words, it very much comes across that you're someone who, as you said, you don't want regrets. You'd rather take a risk and fail than not having taken the risk at all.
- [08:20]
A
Right, exactly. Yeah, you get my point. So that is, I think even I was thinking some half of my brain thought I'm going to lose and no, never win or never number three or don't even make to Olympia but it's still my brain. No, just tried it. And you, when you get older, you say, oh, I did everything, you know, to be the best runner, to improve myself. So when I make that decision, I can't tell you I become totally different. Because that's the most hardest. You already have something. You have good contract to the shoe company. I could provide for myself. I would run world championships. I already in safe place. But I have to move out of this comfort zone, push myself even. No one was helping me. Many people were like, no, that's not a good idea. How is possible you're going to do that?
- [09:11]
B
Yeah. People say this a lot, don't they? They unintentionally put us down and keep us where we are. Right. Oh, it's not a good idea. It's really interesting. There's a lot of non runners who listen to this podcast. Okay. And just to put it in context for people who are not familiar with running, in 2023, you ran the London Marathon, one of the premier marathon races on the planet. That was your very first marathon and you ended up winning it. Okay. So I don't know if that has ever been done before, someone in their first race. What was also incredible is during that race, you were written off by the experts on many occasions. I don't know if you've seen a rerun and heard what the commentators were saying because you stopped at various times, right, to stretch. And I've watched a rerun and some of these very, very experienced commentators actually said, somebody should take her off the course. She's going to damage herself. Yet you came from nowhere to not only catch up with the lead pack, you then went and won the race. Right. So talk us through that race. Did you think about pulling out when you were pulling up at the side and stretching your hamstring and the leaders are getting further ahead? What went through your minds?
- [10:38]
A
So as a pro athlete, when you want to run marathon, you don't go to major marathon, big marathon like London. You don't even think it.
- [10:46]
B
Oh, you warm up in other races first.
- [10:48]
A
Yeah, other races. You always do the safe part. You go somewhere, just a small marathon, and you just see how good you are. Then you're good. But to me, as medically, when I say I'm gonna run marathon, I was like, I'm gonna do London. They was like, oh, London is too, too risky because they're going a lot of big people, like, it's better you run something small. I say, no, I want to do London. Then a car after when you go home, you're like, is that a smart idea? No. Your brain is like, I think that's stupid. So I had really, for three months, just. Even the night, that's not good idea. It's better listen, you know, listen to the people around you. You're like, again, no, I want to do it. So when the race happened and I just say, see? Oh, my God, Everybody telling me, I didn't listen, this is going to happen. I was like even asking, God, I just want to go something like 25k, 28k. So I just say, oh, I have experience.
- [11:45]
B
Hold on. So when you were stretching and it looked to everyone that you were injured in you were saying, I knew this would happen. Everyone told me not to race. So how did you go from that to winning?
- [11:58]
A
I kind of stretched. I was like, just let me run, just 2k, 3k more. And I was like, the pain, it didn't increase.
- [12:05]
B
It did not increase.
- [12:06]
A
It didn't increase. Then I start running. It was shock. Then I was like, the pain was like, staying there. I thought, okay. I was like, actually, okay, I'm going to do. When I was 38, like around 30, 28 or something, I was already grateful. I say, I don't care what happened, even if I stop. Also, I have experience. I was like, I have experience.
- [12:24]
B
So when you were at 28k and the race for people who don't know is 42k, you're just going, okay, this is good. I've got the experience. I run 28k at a major marathon. Doesn't matter what happens. I'm still learning about this new discipline. Okay, then what happens?
- [12:40]
A
Then I was like, I was really already happy. Like, this is the spirit experience. Next time gonna be better. I was running then. I think I was. I didn't know how to drink because I have Ramadan almost. I didn't drink. I don't. I didn't practice. I almost get hit by bus when I grabbed the drink. When I saw the athletes taking the drink, I read it and I was like, okay, how much I have to drink?
- [13:03]
B
I was like, so you're watching the other top athletes. Ah, okay. They're taking it, Taking two steps.
- [13:08]
A
Exactly. And I was. And I started feeling. I don't know. For some reason, I cut the group. I was already celebrating. People say, oh, she gonna win. I didn't care. I was celebrating. I was like, I'm so happy. I was with this elite athlete who's the greatest marathon runner ever. I was so grateful. I think one thing in Our life also being grateful is actually what make you lead to success. I was so grateful and I was cheering and my energy actually increased by just, you know, somebody. When you win, you already have for a couple hours high energy. I was already celebrating, you know, I was celebrating.
- [13:44]
B
So that was at 38K. So you're feeling grateful. The gratitude is giving you more energy. You're with some of the top runners of all time. So there's 4k left. What goes on between 38 and 42, that means you end up getting the gold.
- [13:59]
A
So I was running with the dam. I was just happy with our number four. Number three. I didn't fail. I didn't fail. I was like, in the end, I was like, I know I have kick, but the kick become really. I was so powerful. I was sprinting like crazy. I was like, couldn't believe I like, how is I never imagine I will go to London Marathon as my first marathon and I'm gonna win. I was like, I was like, I won London Marathon. The marathon I watch on the tv. I was like, really? I couldn't believe I was a sprint. I was like, I went, I'm winning London Marathon.
- [14:32]
B
But you know, it's funny, when you were sprinting and I think this goes back to what people love about you. There was a playfulness with your sprint. Okay, Certainly to me, and I'm not a running coach, it wasn't an intense focus. Right. I practiced this. Now I've got to run. I've got 100 meters to go. It was almost this disbelief, this kind of happiness, this. I don't know, there was a real freedom I felt watching you. And I don't know, it keeps going back to the same point, which is how many of us listen to the voices around us that maybe our parents, maybe our work colleagues, maybe our boss, maybe our friends. They're not trying to keep us down. They're trying to help us. Yeah, people were trying to help. You say, hey, don't go to the London Marathon. It's risky. But Sivan, even that word, risky is interesting to me. I don't know what your takers, but it's only risky, I guess, if the goal is winning.
- [15:36]
A
Yeah.
- [15:36]
B
If the goal is just to get experience, well, it's not risky, right?
- [15:40]
A
Yeah.
- [15:41]
B
So it depends what your definition of success is.
- [15:44]
A
So what do you say is right? So 2019, I become the best 1500 meter, 5k and 10,000 meter runner. So you people around you or you coach always choose the same. I was in three events, so I have to cancel one because 50100 meter, 5,000 meters, just 13 minutes apart. So the 5,000 meter and the 10,000 meter runner, the same athlete. So if you win 10,000 meter because you want to compete at the same athlete, you're going to. You don't know what will happen, but you're going to guarantee by almost 99% you're going to want win 5000 METI also. So I told my coaches like, okay, I'm so grateful. You win 10,000 meters, so you going to do 5,000 meters. Because the people you go race it the same people, you already easy win that one. You're going to win. You're going to become like Mo Farah. I told him, no, I want to do fifty hundred meters. He's like, I argue with him almost today. Suddenly I was like, this is risky. 50, 100 meters, a fresh athlete. You already run 10,000 meters. Your leg style in 1500 meter also tactic. You could end it up becoming number five. It's tactic. I told him, is life all about gold? He's like, no. I say to him, let me do that. And what I love, I just wanna do experience.
- [17:10]
B
When you said is life just about gold? My whole body lit up. That went straight to my heart. I promise you. Because this is something I think about all the time. You know, how are we defining success? Right? You know, the people around you. Yeah. We want you to win. So the best chance of winning is to do 10,000 and 5,000. If you do 1500, you may not win. But what if winning isn't the goal?
- [17:36]
A
Exactly.
- [17:37]
B
What if experience is the goal? You know, life is not just about gold.
- [17:42]
A
Yeah, I remember he couldn't answer that he let me do. And luckily I get awaited. I won. But that thing really helped me because that's the first thing. Then I come to Tokyo years. I was the best shape of my life. Inevitably. So I choose the 2, 3 event. And then in like that's like crazy thing. And then like from 2019, I was thinking, I'm gonna do three event. I'm training with myself. But in my brain, that's crazy. What if you lose everything? So then Covid come cancel. Imagine I have to care that thing training for 2021. When 2021 come. 20, 2021 come. I told I'm gonna do three event. I. I can't tell you how many people told me you're gonna go empty hand. Even the. The people who's like really close to me. No, she's not gonna this. She's not gonna Win this. She's not gonna win this, but she's gonna win this. Even the parts I tell as a secret, like, I don't think so, she's gonna get mtv. I don't think so, she gonna get this. She got. And even they won't call me now. You're going to go empty hand. That's crazy. That's stupid. This, whatever.
- [18:56]
B
Do you feel any pressure? What I mean by that is you're a professional athlete, okay, so maybe your sponsors, right, presumably they're wanting you to be getting medals and being photographed with the gold medal or the silver or the bronze, whatever. When everyone around you is saying no, does that make you even more determined to follow your heart? Or like, is that there anyway? Or when the people are saying no around you, are you quite stubborn where you go, right, you're saying no, I'm going to show you by saying yes.
- [19:33]
A
It's what my heart want. Even if you tell me it's this or that. But still, I can be also flexible. I can say, oh, that's maybe not smart. But it's like always something inside me like, no, do, do, do. I want to experience. I want to see what is possible. Does it actually take a power over me? What's inside me? I want. I'm very determined when I want it, when I want it, not when the people tell me you can't do it. Sometimes I say, okay, whatever you say, I don't care. And I just walk away. But if I believe it, I don't care. How many voice shout.
- [20:08]
B
Were you always like that? Even as a little girl growing up.
- [20:11]
A
In Ethiopia, I was very curious. I was very hard for my mom. And luckily I think it is good. I was growing up in Ethiopia because in Ethiopia the different I see in Ethiopia and in Netherlands the children different. In Ethiopia you have baby, the baby's two, three years. The baby do her own things, you know. But in Netherlands they do every time for children in Ethiopia, you already more independent as a child. You do your own things. But it's also come because I have have in my life as a young girl. I have a lot of experience around the world. I have lived in Africa. As a younger, I lived in Netherlands and I go to America. So I become more open minded. Before I was scared, my curiosity had to keep it to myself. I let my curiosity go outside.
- [21:02]
B
Yeah. You mentioned the word gratitude a lot in this conversation. You mentioned in the 2023 London Marathon, your first marathon that you ended up winning when you were back on the track after stretching Your legs. You just felt grateful that you were able to continue and still be in this incredible race. You also said before that though that I think in 2016 you were feeling quite angry and frustrated with performances. Right. And you had to remind yourself that your religion teaches you that it's important to be grateful. So I'm interested what happened because it sounds like there's been quite a profound shift in your psychology with how you approach these things in 2016. Anger and frustration. 2023, 2024, 2025. A lot more relaxed and grateful for what you get to do. Tell me about that change.
- [21:59]
A
So when I want to. I grew up as a totally when I was a child. My family is Muslim, but they really don't know that much about religion. So when I was decided to go to America, I was like, actually why I'm Muslim, I have to learn about it. You know, I started deep reading it and I learned a lot and that. That when I was like actually to me the Islam become the way of life. Not only. Not only just a religion the way of life. Because I come as a younger girl even Netherlands. I don't know how to. How to handle when I'm happy. I don't know how to live life when I'm sa. I was coming to Netherlands by myself. So I have to learn from something so that teach me. Okay, this is the way you live. This is the way you handle when you're angry. This is. That's. I learned a lot from the religion of Muslim. I was. I'm also. You know how I'm curious. I'm like in Netherlands free you can do drug. And I had a lot of also bad friends. So I could ended up doing bad things but luckily because of the their religion and ended up actually with good.
- [23:08]
B
So. So for you it sounds like your religion gave you a framework for how to live.
- [23:14]
A
Thank you. Yes, exactly.
- [23:16]
B
Yeah. Be grateful, right? Be appreciative for what you have. You know, do this, don't do that or whatever it might be. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Can you. I mean I don't know how much you're prepared to share, but you grew. You were born in Ethiopia, right?
- [23:30]
A
Yeah.
- [23:30]
B
You know. How was your early childhood in Ethiopia?
- [23:33]
A
It was really beautiful. So you grow up, you don't have car, you just work for yourself and you run to the school. It's just like playing around. To me it is just one. As a child, that's one of your dreams. When you child, you don't care about gold house, gold car, gold thing. It's like, oh, you free, you play, you do barefoot. I grow up running barefoot. To that and to here. It is just a beautiful. As a child, I really enjoy my life. But I see you, you grow up some of Africa country. It is very. A lot of problem. Like just my nature. I'm very. Why this, why that? In Africa, sometimes you can't say why this, why that? You have to keep going.
- [24:16]
B
As a girl or as a human being.
- [24:18]
A
As human being. It's very hard actually, like, especially with politics back then you have to like just ask to live the way it is. But it's. That's. As a human being, even as a kid, I ask everything. And actually Dutch fit me because in Netherlands they ask everything. They ask everything and they're very direct also.
- [24:37]
B
Okay, so you had a happy childhood running around barefoot, running, asking questions until you weren't able to. You went to school there. And when you left Ethiopia for the Netherlands at the age of 15, was it just you by yourself?
- [24:53]
A
I left with somebody, but it's like I don't really have. You know, as a young, you really need your mom, your dad, who guide you to how to live life. I didn't have that one, but I was actually. I have a lot of mentor in Netherlands. But it is just the culture, the life is totally different. It's totally opposite.
- [25:14]
B
Did you choose the Netherlands or was that just one of the options?
- [25:17]
A
No, it just happened really.
- [25:20]
B
For many of us who have grown up and live in the west, we possibly can't even fathom what it is like at the age of 14 or 15 to have to leave our family and our country, to go thousands of miles away and live in a different country with a different culture. Are you happy sharing why you left in the end? Just taking a quick break to give a shout out to the brand new formulation of AG1, one of the sponsors of today's show. Yes, you heard correctly. I am delighted to announce that AG1, the daily health drink that has been in my own life for well over six years, has now updated and improved its formulation based upon the latest science. And to celebrate, they are giving my audience a very special September offer. Some of the upgrades in the new formula include more magnesium, which supports muscle function and the ability of our nervous system to relax. And it now contains five instead of two strains of bacteria to reflect the latest advancements in microbiome science. It also contains key nutrients like vitamin C, biotin, niacin, vitamin B6, riboflavin, thiamine, zinc and folate. In bioavailable forms the body can easily and readily utilize, maximizing their potential benefits. Now I get it. Nutrition can often seem really complicated. We get confused about what exact diet we should be following and which supplements we might benefit from taking. And that's one of the many reasons that I love AG1. They make it really simple to be the best version of you over 70 ingredients, one scoop once a day for less than a cup of coffee and each batch is independently tested for quality and safety markers including microbial contaminants, heavy metals, allergens and banned substances. So if you want to Support your health seven mornings a week, start with AG1. And right now I have a very special limited time offer until the end of September worth 58 pounds which is around $80. Subscribe now and get 10 free travel packs and not just the usual five and an awesome welcome kit containing your AG1 Shaker Scoop and canister with your first subscription. To take advantage, go to drink ag1.comlivemore this episode is brought to you by Boncharge, a wellness brand who have a fantastic range of products to help you sleep better, feel better and live better. From blue light glasses to red light therapy and beyond, Bon Charge makes it easy to prioritize wellness at home and I myself have been using many of their products for well over five years now. Now without question, one of my favorite products from them is their Demi Red Light Therapy device. I closely follow the research on red light therapy and I'm really interested in potential benefits including enhanced recovery, improved skin, better eye health and improved sleep. And ever since I got this panel I spend about 10 minutes in front of it each morning whilst reading and about 10 minutes in front of it every night. It helps me wind down, feel more relaxed and I'm finding I fall asleep a lot easier. I'm also a big fan of their Infrared PEMF grounding mat. PEMF stands for Pulsed electromagnetic field which sends magnetic energy into the body which can help enhance sleep, improve focus and increase energy. Bon Charge ship worldwide in rapid time. They offer easy returns and exchanges and as an exclusive offer for my podcast audience they are giving you 20% off everything on their website. All you have to do is go to bondcharge.com forward/livemore and use coupon codes live more to save 20%.
- [30:00]
A
It is just all the politics like I can't go forever I think it take a look but it's just like so back then in Ethiopia you like many people with I think it's almost could like from one president to other president. Some president ruled for 30 years, some people 45 years. So it's almost gone. Gone. Starts from my grandpa, my grandfather, my father, and just always the politics. I think now it's getting better. But still I think some area they have also three years ago and they have war, they have to leave. So every time just go around, one group leave the other group leave the other. This is just freaking politics in Africa.
- [30:46]
B
And so when you left, you arrive in the Netherlands. What were those first few days like in Ethiopia?
- [30:54]
A
Every door is open. Every door is open, every people. Like there's a lot of community, the children play together. And so the door is closed. Like why the door is closed here?
- [31:04]
B
Right.
- [31:05]
A
Like for me also this is the hardest things. Like that's the hardest thing. And I'm also very outdoor person. So most of the time you stay inside and watching movie or whatever. I was like, why that's the hardest thing? I really, I think for two years I really don't want to stay in Netherlands. I just. No, don't. It's not my things. But luckily I become independent. I have to think about my life. I was becoming a student, I have to focus. I was like, I'm fine. And I think I adapted the culture also after that, very fast because they are very direct and very open minded. That's what I am very fitted in.
- [31:42]
B
Yeah. I've read that you call yourself a very proud Dutch citizen.
- [31:48]
A
Yes.
- [31:50]
B
How do you think about nationality? You grew up in Ethiopia, your family are Ethiopian, yet you now reside in the Netherlands and Holland. It's interesting to me and the reason I ask also is because I'm, you know, not in the same way as you at all. But you know, my parents were immigrants from India to the UK in the 1960s and 1970s. So, you know, growing up I have an Indian background at home and then in the day I'm at school. So there's kind of Indian values at home, Western values at school. So I've thought a lot about, you know, who am I, Am I British, Am I Indian? You know, why does it even matter? Which is what I think these days. But how do you think about nationality?
- [32:37]
A
I think to me also I'm young enough to say I'm Netherland. I know about Ethiopia also. So I was also very confused because when I go back to home a couple, couple years ago, when they talk about Netherlands, I get invisible, I get angry. When somebody also say about Ethiopia, I get whatever. So suddenly I become like, okay, I'm just both even because Now I feel even so I go to America. So I even feel, oh, I know American people. I lived seven years, almost, no, 16 years. So I think if people go, can you change us? Like, back then to 10 years? I said, 10 years ago, I was like, I don't want that. But now if I go back, that's the amazing thing happened to me. So these good things that people know about one place and then come to that place and come to that place. So now it is, for me, it's like, why matter why I have to be Ethiopia? Why matter why I have to be Netherlands? Kind of both. I'm very proud to be Africa. I'm very proud to be European. Like, it's just deep inside, like, I think you know that.
- [33:41]
B
Yeah, I love hearing that perspective because I think nationality is a thing that people get so attached to. And I mean, the more I think about these things, I think the more attachments we have, the more trapped we become.
- [33:57]
A
Exactly.
- [33:57]
B
Right. You know, we're all part of the human race.
- [34:00]
A
Yes.
- [34:01]
B
Right. We're all trying to get on in the world, you know, achieve our goals, lift people up around us. And I think these labels sometimes become really quite limiting for us. And, you know, it's interesting, The London Marathon 2025 was probably just over 24 hours ago when it finished. And the London Marathon Instagram page and your page posted a beautiful video of you having finished. And I think one of your Dutch counterparts was still coming in. And you were so excited and you were smiling and you were cheering and it was really nice to see that sort of camaraderie.
- [34:42]
A
Yeah. Like, I will tell you the secret. I never tell anyone yet. I had some breathing problem. I just figured out because yesterday, the highest polar. I have a polar allergy, so I couldn't catch up my brain.
- [34:55]
B
You were feeding the pollen yesterday?
- [34:57]
A
Yeah, yesterday. So I didn't know that. I just hear it was high pollen, but I couldn't breathe. So the secret I want to tell you, I was already number three. I know I don't catch, but in my brain, oh, you're not going to catch. I said, at least you're going to enjoy what is going to happen to the man. Like, immediately I finish, I'm like, oh, I have to watch the man. So.
- [35:15]
B
So what's the ending of the men's race?
- [35:17]
A
Well, I'm racing like couple five or six kilometers left. I know I couldn't cut them. The number one, the leaders. So I was telling my brothers, okay, at least you're gonna enjoy. Who gonna Win at the man, you know, the man they have this year, the strongest field ever. I was even curious about how Abdin Nagaya gonna race. I know he's training, he's really good hip. Also I was curious about Elliot. I was curious about Kipleimo. So I was like I was even telling a day before I wish I don't race. I just sit down and watch my race.
- [35:49]
B
Yeah, it's fascinating hearing that. I mean, I've got so many questions about that race. But one of the things you said before about your first marathon in 2023, when you didn't, because it was Ramadan beforehand, you hadn't trained to know how much fluid should I take at which distance should I take it. Things that most marathon runners are practicing and they're getting dialed in completely. And then you weren't taking a drink, Right. And then yesterday in the men's race, of course, at that I think that 35 kilometer drink station, that's when the whole race changed. When the winner didn't take a drink, everyone else takes a drink and he stretches this big gap.
- [36:32]
A
Ah, yeah, they did the lady.
- [36:33]
B
That's what happened.
- [36:34]
A
The lady did to me that too. The daddy attacked the rain. They didn't take the stretch me out.
- [36:41]
B
Yeah. Isn't that interesting?
- [36:42]
A
It's very interesting, yeah. You need the fuel. Actually that how we believe scientifically they say you have to have drink at.
- [36:49]
B
The time, but again it's these. Again, I'm not saying we don't need the fuel, but it's interesting that the guy who won the men's race estate didn't take the fuel, but instead he took the opportunity to create a psychological advantage. And then I think, well, maybe in 2023, one of the reasons you ran is because maybe you didn't drink.
- [37:08]
A
Yeah, maybe that's a good thing. That's true. But also I think the biggest wherever you brain believe if you are society, you will do it. I think the guys just take, okay, I take this opportunity, I'm going to destroy them. That's what I did. I think.
- [37:24]
B
Can you explain to me, because I'm not an elite athlete like you, the importance of that psychology, Right. So at a drink station, let's say you're all running together in a group, right? And let's say someone does make a break and they get ahead, what is that like for an athlete? Like if suddenly someone you were running with suddenly you find is quite far ahead of you in just a few moments, what does it do to you psychologically? Because the commentators Kept mentioning you because you won London. You were the Olympic gold medalist from last year's marathon. And when they started to break away, your name kept coming up. The commentators kept saying they're worried about Safan's kick. So they're gonna keep checking to make sure they've got clearer Sifan. They don't wanna risk being with her at the end. Now, again, that's the commentators. I don't know if that's true from the athletes, but obviously because of your amazing kick in 2023 and at the Olympics last year, where there was all kinds of stuff going on at the end. Right. How much does that psychology play into when you're actually racing?
- [38:46]
A
It's really play bigger.
- [38:48]
B
It's a big role.
- [38:49]
A
Big one. So because of what I did in London, I was in Paris and I was feeling so good at 20k.
- [38:57]
B
20K?
- [38:58]
A
Yeah, 20k.
- [38:59]
B
So halfway through.
- [39:00]
A
Yeah, halfway. I was feeling good and I was like, I saw they are struggling going downhill. I said, can I break them here? And I tried to pass them. And they speak the language Ethiopian. And I hear the language. I understand. They said, what she's doing? The other guy said, I think she's gonna go. And I like, no, I'm not gonna go. I come by.
- [39:22]
B
Oh, so you heard them talking about you?
- [39:24]
A
They were talking about me. I was like, oh, okay. These people are just focused on me. So I saw all of them look at me like they are only rescued me. So I told myself, no, go back. I just go back. Let me just be safe. Let me play a safe card.
- [39:39]
B
That's interesting. So do you think that's because you came from nowhere in 2020? Not from nowhere, to be clear. Obviously you're an elite athlete, but in terms of the marathon, because you hadn't done that before and you win your first race, like, everyone's thinking, oh, my God, we have to watch her.
- [39:56]
A
I have seen a lot of amazing athletes who did amazing on the track. And then the marathon, it's total because the energy system is totally different. So I come from nowhere. It's not only the way I win in London was unusual also. So you can't say a person straight, stop, walk and miss, almost drink and then go win. So that give you all this. Even somebody come to me, they was like, oh, they want to beat you. They're like, in Tokyo I raised before Paris, they say, oh, they want to beat you. But the coach said, we are mostly, we are not focused on Tokyo. We are going to beat her in Paris. So even the London one marathon. Because the way I win is totally different. It make like I was the greatest marathon runner for many athletes in the head.
- [40:44]
B
So when you heard them talking about you. So this is, I didn't know any of this. This is interesting. So you're in the 2024 Olympic marathon. And again just for the non runners, you did something remarkable in that Olympics. You competed in the 5k, the 10k and then the marathon. Right. And I remember, because I remember this so well, I had just gone on a family holiday with my wife and children to Kenya for four weeks and we had just come back and we were watching the Olympics on television. And me, my son and my daughter watch your marathon race. And we were talking about, we just round the TV thinking she must be knackered today, she must be exhausted because she's just on the 5k and the 10k. Who's gonna do a marathon after already being tired? And what was the time span between the 5k, the 10k and the marathon?
- [41:34]
A
So the time as well was like the 5K was two days and then at the 10K, then between then 5K is two times times I raised two times the heat. Oh, the heat, yeah.
- [41:47]
B
Two 5K.
- [41:48]
A
Yeah, two 5K. And then I raised the 10,000. And then I have 36.
- [41:52]
B
But 36 hours before the marathon. A day and a half.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah, but for me wasn't really 36 hours because it's less because I have doping control that after the, the mix zone interview it take like two hours.
- [42:04]
B
All the interviews afterwards.
- [42:05]
A
Yeah, and then I have doping control. I have like 2am to my hotel.
- [42:11]
B
Oh, so you get to your hotel at 2am so you're already late. You're not gonna get enough sleep.
- [42:16]
A
No way. And I was like lying down. And you have also when you race as elite athlete, we have really high adrenaline.
- [42:26]
B
Adrenaline, yeah. You've just been racing.
- [42:28]
A
Yeah, exactly. You can't sleep. So the things I had just a night before the marathon and I go early on 9pm to go sleep, but my body doesn't want to sleep because I always come later for medallion ceremony. Like I couldn't sleep until 1am or something and by 4am I have to wake up.
- [42:49]
B
I mean it just makes it even more remarkable that you got Olympic gold after all of this. But again, going back to one of the themes earlier on, I think sofan this is one of the things people love about you. There's this like impossible doesn't seem to exist for you. It's like, yeah, okay, I'm gonna Do it doesn't matter. You know, I think many of us in life, we allow excuses to get in our way. We go, oh, you know what? That's happened. Of course I can't do this. And for me, one of the most inspiring things about you is that it seems that you don't really allow excuses in. Like, as you said, there's more to life than winning gold. Okay, A great life lesson for all of us. And it seems to be this can do attitude. It's like, yeah, okay, well, you know what? The race finished. I had interviews for two hours. I had to do my doping control tests. I'm knackered. But, hey, ho. Why don't I do the marathon and see what happens? Is that literally how you approach it?
- [43:47]
A
Yeah. To me, I think many people, especially number one, how we destroy ourselves to have an excuse. Like for London marathon for yesterday. If I make excuse, they're like, oh, she's great because she have this problem. But I'm also distressed myself. The good thing is actually because we scared, you know, why we don't do many things. Why we don't because we scared to fulfill. If we feel. And then people gonna judge us. For example, if. If everybody's like, oh, she's great. I want to be always. They call me greater because when they say it's greater, I'm already in comfort zone because everybody think I'm great. But if I try to out of that great comfort zone, I will be maybe challenge feeler. People gonna talk about me. I'm not good. So we scared of actually judging people judge us. I think the great thing is just try it and don't care what I say. You tried, you know, don't think also to be like greatest. Just be. Do your best. There is nobody great in everything that is also. Nobody's have bad in anything. Everybody have something. Just. Just try, you know, to. So what I see is people just. Just scared of trying, you know, because people somebody gonna judge them.
- [45:00]
B
This is, I mean, such an important bit of wisdom you just shared there for people. It's really interesting that you race marathons, but that's really a metaphor for life, isn't it? Life is a marathon.
- [45:14]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [45:15]
B
In life, we have to endure. Things are gonna happen. It's gonna feel tough at times, and somehow we have to find a way to get through. And actually, I was watching a video of yours this morning, Sophan, and it was. It was really inspiring because you were saying, and to be clear for everyone, you are one of the world's Best athletes, you've got six Olympic medals. I believe you're the current Olympic marathon gold medalist. Yet you still say that you have both parts of your mind. Sometimes you're really scared before you do something. You have fear, you have nerves. You're scared that you're not good enough, that you are not enough, yet you do it anyway. And I thought, wow, if someone with six Olympic medals is saying that, that should be inspiring for all of us. For those of us who let fear get in the way of us living our best lives.
- [46:05]
A
I think I'm gonna look. For example, after I won Paris Olympic, everybody think I'm great. So I took after Olympic four or five months off, and I'm already gaining also weight. And especially six weeks ago, I was ready to run London Marathon. So in, because I did already out of comfort zone. I wasn't scared. But I know if another athlete, if they are not sure they're gonna win, they don't come. But to me, I already used to because 21, I won gold, gold and won silver. 22, I had bad years. I didn't win any race. So they were like, she's done. Her life is over. Believe me, we all scared. I'm scared. I'm terrified sometimes, but I just do it. I just win over my fear. So I'm gonna tell everybody, wherever you look, tried, who cares? Okay, done, Done. As long it's not dangerous. As long it doesn't kill you. Just try it.
- [47:00]
B
So this is interesting. Okay, so having won gold at the London Marathon in 2023, having won gold at the Olympic Marathon In Paris in 2024, you came third in the London Marathon yesterday. Okay, Some people might look at that as a failure. Yeah, right.
- [47:19]
A
Yeah.
- [47:20]
B
If someone's listening right now, and I think, yeah, well, you won two golds, and then you came third. Well, that's not good. That's not what you would be expecting of yourself or whatever story they have about you. What would you say to them?
- [47:34]
A
I say, actually, you greater because of failure. The more you try. The more you fail, the more you succeed because you try. Imagine if you try only 12 times, you may win 12 times. But if I try 10 times, times I fail 5 times, I win 5 times. Who is the winner? I'm winner. I win more than you. So it's like this. You could have a lot of error, but you also have the chance to win. Look, I tried six distance at the two Olympic. I have three brooms. I have three gold. So. And I also tried so many marathon and I already have.
- [48:11]
B
But yeah, it's not even for me when I hear that. It's not even just how many golds you've got. Right. You could have played it safe and just stuck to your distances. Then you never would have learned about anything. The marathon and that it's a different event, different energy systems. How do you maintain that concentration for 42km, not just 5k or 10k? And then going beyond the gold medals, it's also about life. And what do we want our experience of life to be? Because how many new life experiences have you. Have you experienced through challenging yourself? So whether you got gold or not, forget about it. Yeah, of course it's important. Great. I'm not diminishing it. It's great that you've got the gold medals. But even if you hadn't, you would have learned so much about yourself, which you wouldn't have learned had you played it safe.
- [49:03]
A
Exactly. That's also for me, people think it is all about running. Running. No, it's not about running. It is also where after I go out of my running career, I can't jump into any business or anything. I will still figure out, I will still weigh out to make to solve the problem. I will still have the solution for the problem.
- [49:25]
B
But that's where the confidence comes from, doesn't it? Right. The confidence that you now have even beyond your running career to solve problems. And problems are going to come up in life. The confidence comes from taking risks, from going outside your comfort zone. I mean, some people, these things sound like cliches, but they're cliches because they're true. Right. This is literally how you learn.
- [49:49]
A
Exactly. It's normal to have up and down. It's like if we have perfect life, we don't even do. I think we don't even do life. I think.
- [49:58]
B
Going Back to the 2024 Olympic Marathon, you were telling me how halfway through you were feeling good despite having done the 5k and the 10k and not much sleep leading up to it. You're feeling good halfway through, and you were thinking about making a run, making a break. Right. And you heard some of your competitors talking in Ethiopian. You could hear the language that they were worried or they were thinking about what you're gonna do. Right. So you decided, okay, I'm not gonna go. Why did you. Hearing them focusing on you, why did that lead you to change your decision? Instead of going, why did you hang back then? This episode is brought to you by. Whoop. Now, you may have heard me talk about whoop on previous episodes of this podcast. But if not, WHOOP is a screen free wearable health and Fitness coach Now, I've been wearing a whoop band for over 12 months now and it really has had a transformative effect on my health and well being. I've gained so many insights how different types of exercise and life stress affect my recovery, how different evening routines affect my sleep quality, and overall I would say that wearing it has helped me understand my body much better. The all new WHOOP has many fantastic features including hormonal insights and on demand ECG readings. But I would say my favourite is healthspan, a clever feature that tracks how your daily behaviours affect your health using two metrics. WHOOP age, a measure of your physiological age and pace of aging, which shows if you're aging faster or slower over time. For me, seeing this health span score regularly helps to keep me motivated and on track with my desired habits. Now, I've been a doctor for over 20 years and honestly I don't think that health wearables are necessarily for everyone, but for many people like myself, they can be absolutely game changing. I think it's really important to use your WHOOP data as a tool to help guide you, not something to dictate your life. And it's also important to correlate what the data says with your own subjective feeling and what else is going on in your life. If you join WHOOP today, they are giving my listeners the all new Whoop 5.0 device. Plus they are giving you the first month completely free. And if you're still not sold yet, there's also a 30 day money back guarantee so you can try WHOOP out for free. To get your free Whoop 5.0 plus your free 30 day trial head to join.whoop.comlivemore that's join.whoop.com live more.
- [53:11]
A
Because when I look at them and I go, oh, they worry about me and I look at the Kenyan, they also look at me, I know they are hunting me. They wasn't focused on the race, they're hunting me. I was like, why you have to be. Just stay there and do the best. And I also tell myself before the race, I will do the best of my race, just try to compete with myself so that I go back and say just, you know, just stay behind race, just don't make any mistake, come back. That really saved me.
- [53:39]
B
So it almost gave you an increased confidence.
- [53:41]
A
Exactly.
- [53:42]
B
Oh, they're talking about I'm the hunted one now. So fine, I've Got a bit more autonomy here. I can make decisions here. I don't need to push now. Let me save it in case I need it at the end. And you did need it at the end, of course. It was quite a, how can I put it? Quite a robust finish. Right. Do you remember that finish? Do you remember what happened when it seemed as though you guys almost touched at one point?
- [54:06]
A
Yeah, exactly. I was like. So I, I think like around 1k. I want to go to run next to her.
- [54:12]
B
1K left. So you nearly finished the race.
- [54:14]
A
And I was like trying to go next to her. I didn't know that. She's blocking me actually. So I was like, I was like, I see her again in front of me until I hear, I see. I thought, oh, she's so fast I can't match her cadence.
- [54:27]
B
You can't match her?
- [54:28]
A
I thought, yeah, I can't match her cadence. I thought. I didn't know that she tried to block me. So I just stayed behind her. And at the time, the time passed with my shit. I feel like, I can't tell. I feel like somebody gave me like wake up call, like some crazy alarm or something. I was like bomb. My head was like bomb.
- [54:49]
B
Because you just exploded.
- [54:51]
A
Yeah, just become like I shocked actually.
- [54:55]
B
Were you shocked by how quick you were able to run at the end?
- [54:57]
A
No, I was shocked when like she smashing. When we smash each other. I to would like like really wake up and I was like try to sprint as hard.
- [55:05]
B
Oh, so you think that knock actually helped you?
- [55:08]
A
Yeah, helped me a lot.
- [55:09]
B
Wow.
- [55:10]
A
It's really hard for me.
- [55:11]
B
And a question I think a lot of us who are non elite athletes think about is, you know, you guys of course at the top level are competing with each other. Right. You know, because only one person can get gold, Right. Does that affect your relationship with these fellow athletes off the track? Is it hard to be friends with people off the track when part of your job is to try and beat them on the track?
- [55:39]
A
To me it's most of the time actually I don't really have on the track like we talk and you know, because most of the time I think as an athlete it's better you focus on yourself because you can only do only. You can only control about yourself. But it's good also having competitive, you know, that make actually the sport beautiful.
- [56:00]
B
You know, when you make a record and then someone beats that record, how do you feel?
- [56:06]
A
I don't really care. It actually motivates me like when fates break my mile record and everybody so Sorry. I was like, no, it's good because I know I can go harder.
- [56:16]
B
What was your mile record?
- [56:18]
A
It was fourth one.
- [56:19]
B
4:12. 4:12.
- [56:21]
A
Yes. She broke I think like 4, 7 and now I believe I tried. Actually I was. When I tried before, like before I jump into the marathon, I was like, oh, I can break that record now. Actually fate make it easy. It's like I know that's possible. Like the record I break was 20 something years old record.
- [56:39]
B
So you broke a 20 year old record and after you broke it two.
- [56:43]
A
Years or three, he broke it.
- [56:44]
B
But we see this, don't we? We saw this with Roger Bannister in the four minute mile. He breaks it after. Well, well, he becomes the first human being to run under four minutes. And I think eight people break it in the next two years.
- [56:55]
A
Eight minutes later. Yeah, exactly.
- [56:56]
B
Because the mentality has changed. And I think she has just announced that she wants to try and break the four minute mile barrier later this year. I think. Did you hear that?
- [57:06]
A
Yeah, I hear that it is very good. Like it's actually I'm very starting proud of many athletes because they always stuck in one place. Now they try to they are taking challenge. You know, that's what I want like especially for to me or actually when they broke this, when they broke that. I really wanted the break now. So I know it is possible. It's that I'm sure when athlete now they want to do trade event and go to track and go back to marathon. It is easy because I have done. But if you never see somebody done it is very hard because you are taking risk. But they know that I have done. It is easy for them. But I'm so happy. Like athlete now starting taking challenge. You know, they don't have to why we have to wait somebody challenge. We don't tell ourselves.
- [57:49]
B
I know it's very important to you to inspire women, isn't it? In fact, I read a quote from you which was. Females will always have challenges. But the challenge is like practicing. It helps you get stronger to become a warrior.
- [58:09]
A
You know why it's this important? I want to actually inspire everybody. To me it is because female are generation. If the female is strong, if strong mother. If your wife or your mother somebody stronger. The child she produce, the child she feed is going to be stronger. That is a matter of like when female is strong, the man is also strong. It's not I was focused only the female is strong as man. No, we're different. I'm different. Even every man is different. So I don't have to be strong as man. I'm strong in a different way. He's strong in a different way. He's born different. They are born differently. But I'm equal as human being. I believe in that. I believe in equality, but I don't believe really that I'm strong as this. No, I'm not strong. But to me, I want to motivate women because I want to motivate all human beings because female are really generation. If the mother is weak, the child will be weak, whether a boy or a girl that will like. If the mother is exercise, the child will exercise. If the mother is good in her head, the child will be good in his head.
- [59:16]
B
Yeah, I love that message. I think my wife would love it even more. That message.
- [59:20]
A
Exactly.
- [59:21]
B
I think she would very much be agreeing, going, yes, you're absolutely right. Yeah, it's interesting. Again, I can't speak for Ethiopia or for the Netherlands, but one thing that we see in the UK and I think in many other western countries, certainly the U.S. i know is the same, I don't know in the Netherlands that once girls get to their teenage years, their physical activity starts to decline. Okay, so we know that we have a generation of young girls, teenagers, women, who are not moving their bodies as much as would be good from a health perspective. Okay. Now there's many reasons for that. One thing that I know some women feel and men for that reason, but let's just keep this on women for a minute, is that they often feel self conscious about their bodies. They don't like the way that they look and therefore that sort of shame or embarrassment stops them from, let's say, going for a run or going to the gym. If there is a lady or even a teenage girl listening to us talk right now who feels a bit embarrassed to go out there and go for a run, she's worried that people are looking at her, she doesn't like the shape of her body or whatever it might be. What would you say to her?
- [60:45]
A
So I say to her that, you know that the confidence that she does have is because she's not exercised. When people not exercise, they become the physical body become weak. When you are weaker, it doesn't matter how beautiful you are, you can't have confidence. Just start exercising. When she becomes strong, her confidence build. Even just being healthy strong, it's actually what build confidence and look at yourself and you say I'm strong. If your body is strong, you don't even. You don't see that you're not beautiful. You're not looking good. You think you are looking good. You are better because something connects you, you know, you noodle, your brain is connected. Oh, you're strong. That's why female and male are so different. Like, male is because they're born nowhere. They think, oh, I think that's what I'm going to say. They have to exercise. I will especially, like, just don't sit behind the computer. They have to exercise. They have to move to have their confidence.
- [61:41]
B
Back in the 2024 medal ceremony, you wore your headscarf to the ceremony, and it seemed to cause quite a lot of noise on the Internet. Was she making a statement? Was she trying to say something and send a message to the world? From your perspective, what actually happened to.
- [62:07]
A
Me, to me, it's like, look, okay, I'm no hijabika, to be honest, like a Muslim. According to religion, you have to cover all bodies. But I do the hijab to also send the message. Because I have learned from childhood in the Muslim people who wear hijab, they don't have confidence. They think the man is telling them to wear. They think they don't have. They are not smart and they are so weak. So I just wanted the world. No, they have. They are very smart people. They are very independent. They are very strong. I just want to say you could be Muslim and be strong. Say whatever you want to be. Be like, in the good manner. Be just. With a good morality. You could be Muslim, female and have great education, have. Be sport, be stronger. So that I want to see. Also Muslim is actually, they choose to be Muslim. I choose to be Muslim. Nobody forced me.
- [63:06]
B
It sounds like you wanted to almost, you know, break down barriers and judgment and go, hey, look, I'm a gold medalist. I just kicked ass in the Olympic marathon and won an incredible sprint out. And I'm also someone who wears a headscarf.
- [63:23]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [63:23]
B
To sort of break down that judgment, which, of course, there's a lot of judgment and discrimination in the world. Very empowering message you were trying to put out there.
- [63:31]
A
Yes, Yes. I wanna understand.
- [63:33]
B
Did you get much, much pushback and much negativity or do you not even take. Take any attention of that kind of stuff?
- [63:39]
A
I didn't really get any attention because to me, both of them, I don't take attention. Because if you also search for positive, one day they're gonna crush you. If you also search for negative, both of them, it's. It's not necessary. It's good that people say it's Great, but it's good if you want to be greatest. Don't. Don't insert for any attention. Don't search for the bad. Don't search for good. Also. You will be greater because you just feel. You just do what is right, what is good for you. Other way there's like the one in your head. People will decide for your life. It's good to also talk to people, you know, choose what is good and talk. Be open minded, also flexible. But it just, it's. It's not necessary to, to search for both attention. Do not like I'm gonna say especially the children. Don't search for anything to be great.
- [64:26]
B
I completely agree. If you let the good go to your head.
- [64:28]
A
Exactly.
- [64:29]
B
The negativity is going to bring you down.
- [64:30]
A
The one who put you up, gonna put you also down.
- [64:33]
B
Like you said before, without sad, there's no happiness. Right. It's the balance of life.
- [64:40]
A
There is no success also.
- [64:41]
B
Yeah.
- [64:42]
A
So that is what I say and then. Yeah, exactly. This is what I just want to show in the world. Like they deserve.
- [64:52]
B
You seem to have a lot of mature life wisdom. Right. That often we don't associate with people until they get. Get quite a bit older. And I'm interested to know, do you think that comes largely from your upbringing, the fact that you've had to move countries and get used to different cultures and different ways of living or do you think it's come through your athletic journey and running or is it everything?
- [65:23]
A
No, I think to me it's like, believe me, you will be intelligent if you. I wasn't born that way. I cannot tell you genetically I'm this now it comes. I don't also tell you from athletic background because I know in many athletes, yesterday somebody asked me, you try everything to be good where it come from. Because I didn't see many Ethiopian do that in running. I say because I travel around see just as a young move to this country, move to the tent. It just open up your mind where you get actually free school school. Like we have to go to school as child. This is also great school actually. It's just, I think just great school. Great university you can call great university.
- [66:04]
B
Yeah, I think travel is amazing. It's amazing because shakes you out of your belief system.
- [66:11]
A
Yeah.
- [66:12]
B
You think the world is a certain way and you travel, you're like, oh, oh, there's another way to operate in the world. There's another belief system.
- [66:20]
A
Exactly.
- [66:21]
B
There's other ways that people live in harmony with completely different beliefs. To me, and I really do believe that of course not everyone can travel. But more travel, I think would really make the world a lot happier. And there'd be less discrimination.
- [66:37]
A
Exactly. Because you see, like now when I talk to people, I know when I talk to Ethiopian people, Netherlands or America, I have totally different opinion. And because I see differently, because I live in Nederland, I live in Ethiopia this time, you know, I went to Kenya for three months. It made me actually, I want to learn in Kenya. I want to learn about Kenya culture in university or something. It look like I feel actually part of like, oh, they're Africa. They're like my home. They think this way. This is the way they did it.
- [67:10]
B
It's that curiosity that sort of seems to permeate everything you do.
- [67:14]
A
Exactly right.
- [67:15]
B
That curiosity. What's possible? What can I learn here? What's the language you grew up speaking in Ethiopia?
- [67:23]
A
I speak. They call Oromo language that one of I think maybe half done people speak. 15% of people, they speak the language in Kenya also because in the border, many, many people are even they are Kenya, they speak the Oromo language.
- [67:37]
B
Did you also grow up speaking English?
- [67:39]
A
No, I just learned.
- [67:42]
B
Okay, that's interesting. So you so sorry, the language called Oromo.
- [67:45]
A
Yes.
- [67:45]
B
So. So you grew up speaking that language. Then you are a refugee to the Netherlands.
- [67:51]
A
Yes.
- [67:52]
B
And you didn't speak Dutch at the time, so you had to learn Dutch.
- [67:56]
A
I have to learn Dutch. I really don't speak that much English. I just know from school. Because you just have one language. One. One subject. So when I come to Netherlands, I immediately like in three weeks outside in the Netherlands, everybody speak English. I learned. Learn cook English than Netherlands.
- [68:11]
B
Because you learn English in English in Netherlands.
- [68:13]
A
Yeah, because Netherland language is very tough. So I was. What I did actually did help me. I was become lazy to learn the Dutch because I was already uncomfortable. So I'm like, I have to suffer with this language when I'm speaking so.
- [68:28]
B
But then you did learn Dutch.
- [68:29]
A
I did learn. And they sadly, after a couple. I think after three years I moved to Dutch coach. I started start learning Netherlands. I was also telling myself, no, this is really bad. When I stick speaking the TV and what I like also about Dutch, they like when you speak that language. We try. So I said, okay, I have to become better.
- [68:53]
B
Just before we came in to record, I had the pleasure of meeting your coach, Tim.
- [68:57]
A
Yeah.
- [68:58]
B
And I've been reading quite a lot about your coach recently. And one of the things I came across was on your way to the 2023 London Marathon again. This marathon that you'd never done before. He basically shared in an interview that I think you said it as well that quite soon before the marathon, you were thinking of even pulling out. But I think your team had said, look, London have just announced it. It won't be good for their marketing. So you didn't want to let down the. The marketing of the event. So you go, oh, I'm gonna do it. Even in the coach, I think on the way to the start line, you were thinking about pulling out. Should I really be doing this? And he mentioned that you guys made a bet that I think he proposed to you, that if you win, I'll give up sugar until the end of the year. But you came back with a higher bet, didn't you?
- [69:52]
A
Yeah, exactly. I thought we were joking because he's. I was very addicted to sugar before. And now it's like as a joke, okay, if I win, you're not gonna eat until Paris Olympic. That was one year, couple months. I think he's like, okay, okay, deal. And we just make us a joke. And suddenly I thought, you know, I never thought I'm gonna win. I ended up winning. Timos really struggling. He really gave up.
- [70:14]
B
He gave it sugar for 14 months.
- [70:16]
A
He really, really gave up.
- [70:19]
B
Very few of us in life can succeed by ourselves. How important is your relationship with your coach, Tim?
- [70:28]
A
It is very good. Tim is actually. He's also very curious. I used to. Tim is actually when I say when I come up with something, he never say it's impossible. He's very curious also. He's like, he's also risk taker. You think, yeah, it's possible. Everything you say, yeah, why not? You know, is that make really easy for me? That is also. So when I come out with three event, he's actually the one of I announced like a month before I'm gonna do three event. He's the one of really supportive that I think you need as an athlete, you coach have to be one of the greatest support like you're gonna be as a coach. Like you are actually coaching athlete. It's a big team. Like it's one, two brain work as one. It feel like your coaches doesn't really support you. Whatever your decision make, you are down. So I say when athletes being curious, they have to choose that their coach is the one who supported them.
- [71:26]
B
I heard an interview with your coach, Tim, with a friend of mine, Floris, from the extra Milest podcast. And I think Floris asked him about advice for coaches. And he said many things. But one of the things he said I really, really loved. He said, never ever joke negatively with your athletes. And I really like that. I thought it is yes, it's important for athletes, but even in a marriage, in a relationship with your children, like never joke about something negative. And I thought that was a really insightful piece of advice.
- [72:06]
A
Yeah, I think it's a. He's very smart, by the way. Because is true. Because athlete and coach are so close as even our brain have a lot of to myself. I have a lot of negative things in coming to when I make decision then that come to the athlete also make. Yeah, maybe true. Maybe she's or he better maybe I can't do you know that you know this value. It is very important also to know.
- [72:29]
B
Yeah. I think it also resonated with me because I was chatting to my kids recently about this. This is before I heard that interview with Tim. And one of them made a joke, just a stupid joke. But I said, hey, listen, even if your sibling believes 1% of that right. Even though you meant it as a joke, that can have implications for that person later on.
- [72:50]
A
It's true, right?
- [72:51]
B
Do not joke negatively. It's true, you know, find something else to joke about, but not about someone's weakness or what you perceive as a weakness. And just hearing that made me think, God, he really must be a wonderful coach.
- [73:03]
A
No, he's great. It's really true also because like. Like especially with the children, the parents are role model. If you joke about it, they really take serious. They say they may say they are laughing but in their head when they come like maybe that true. You know, when the time. The difficulty time. They don't search for solution. They say maybe, maybe I'm stupid. Like if you have child like girl child. If you talk about how strong female is how they success it. They will want to become like that success. If you always tell about ad story how wow amazing she did amazing thing. Because I know as a child I hear like my mom was stoked when some female did amazing thing. She always wow, this what amazing thing she does. I was like, oh, I want to become. I want to be like that person. So people cancel. So that's what as a child you just want to. You don't know anything. You just take it.
- [74:00]
B
So, Van, you've experienced many different challenges in your life up to this point. What would you say is the hardest thing you've ever done?
- [74:13]
A
The hardest thing is I have. That is. It was the hard when I moved from Netherlands to US like when I Was like, I already know, oh, I'm safe, I have success, I've get to survive enough money, but I may lose everything and I have to go back to school, educate and have again a job. So that's the hardest thing. What like, you know, right now I'm in good position. If I keep this going, keep for five, six years, I could own something, I could survive and. But I say, oh, I'm going to choose to go to that. And it could be ended up things go different way. And I was like, okay. I just, I choose okay. If things doesn't work, I do try three, four years I go to go to school and go back to school, have my diploma or degree and then I go to work. That's the hardest thing. The other hardest things is when I decide Tokyo Olympic to do three event when I was have any Olympic medal.
- [75:21]
B
Yeah. Wow. And each of those hard things that you did or put yourself forward for, for you has paid dividends. But for some people, they don't always. Sometimes they try and do something hard and it doesn't pay off.
- [75:40]
A
Yeah, it doesn't pay off. I had also really hard years in 2022, it didn't pay off. This is. I was really struggling, but it's not always. But keep working, never give up.
- [75:51]
B
Yeah. Many people who listen to this show Sifan really enjoy something called Parkrun, which is a weekly 5k run every Saturday morning that people do in community and in groups. Okay. You are an elite athlete, one of the world's best female runners. I've got two running questions for you. Okay. For someone who is not a runner but wants to build up to running 5k, what is your advice for them? And for someone who already runs a 5k regularly but wants to get a PB, a personal best in 2025, what advice would you have for them?
- [76:39]
A
So the farest advice what they give it not only 5k every runner, many runners, they run, they don't do gym, they have to. Gym is one of important for your life. You have, they have to lift, they have to do heavy lift. Even the people who's older, when they become 60, 50, 65, whatever they have to do lift. That's very important. Don't only run because number one, you're going to avoid the injury. Number two, you're born destined, you're going to be strong. Number three, what I say for the young girl, you're going to become stronger and confident. If you're going to improve your pb, you're going to look after yourself. If you feel strong and you're going to run also the fastest. So then don't forget your core, don't forget the gym, heavy lift, everything. I do a lot of lifts. They think why you don't be bigger? Because you cannot get bigger. You, you, your body adapt to what you more do. If you at the gym every day, five hours, yes, you're going to be. If you do two times gym, one hour heavy lift, you're not gonna be. You just become stronger and you also become have more growth hormone. That means you are actually more fitter. Number two, also don't avoid speed. When you do speed, you make your right, right and left ventricles and your heart, you make one strong. When you do long distance, I think you make your right, your left vertex stronger. So it is good for your heart also to do longer, also to do sprint. And also when you did like, that's the way if you do like longer run, I don't know, some people do 20 minute long run, some people do 45, some people do 90 minutes and do that. The other also don't only run, do sometimes biking, go to pool. That's how you're gonna run pb. Because our brain love to play.
- [78:27]
B
Yeah.
- [78:28]
A
They don't like to do one thing, they get bored. Maybe they're gonna go good at it, but you're not gonna improve. But if you they do something, number one, they're gonna enjoy, right? They enjoy. The other also. They just will improve also. So whatever. If you run, but also addicting. If you have pool and you pull also either way, I don't know, do core or gym and then you get a pb.
- [78:48]
B
Love it. You're someone who smiles a lot. Even when you're taking on a really difficult challenge. What does the word happiness mean to you?
- [79:00]
A
Number one, Why I smiley? I learn. I learn after this sadness gonna be something great coming. Like what I learned like it's not gonna stay dark. The depress yesterday I was like, okay, I made sad I didn't win. You know, but I know the day will come when I win actually gonna have more happiness. So that I'm thinking like, okay, actually you know, my most of goal had made it when I lost. Not when I win. When I lost. I made actually great goal. A crazy goal. I don't know why.
- [79:32]
B
Wow.
- [79:32]
A
I know I'm not gonna be always happy. Sometimes depressed, sometimes angry, sometimes sad.
- [79:38]
B
Yeah. The full breadth of experience like long slow runs and short fast runs. Happiness, sadness, anger, calm. You know, it's good to experience everything right yeah, it's. It's incredible. You know, talking to you is just so inspiring. I can see why so many people around the world truly love you, right. And feel connected to you and feel that when they watch you run or speak, that they feel that they can do better things in their own life. Right? And I'm pretty sure after today's conversation, a lot of people will also feel inspired by your curiosity, your playfulness, your, I guess, your directness as well. You know, you don't sort of hide your words. You tell it as you see it, which I find, and I think many people find really, really inspiring. There's a lot of people around the world who feel as though they're in a dark place. Okay. They can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. You're someone who has also been in those dark places before.
- [80:47]
A
Exactly.
- [80:48]
B
To finish off this conversation, for that person who's watching right now, who does feel that their life is not going in the way that they want it to go and that they cannot see light at the end of the tunnel, what would your final words for them be?
- [81:05]
A
If you look at me, the people who. Even if the person who watch, who knows Stephen, or maybe he never said, now he's googling, look at it. He said, oh, wow, what she done is great. Believe me, whatever you feel inside you, I feel the same. Even now, I think the things is not going the way I want. I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm happy. So even the girl you think, the woman you think is success, feeling the same as you feel. Maybe the people, the success people, they don't say they're actually the one who fare more. Because when it's success, also you want more success. More success that they think doesn't go the way they want. Maybe, maybe. Couple things they try, they try, they try. Maybe three, four things go the way they want. Maybe 20 things doesn't go the way they want. You only see the one success thing. So think it wherever you think about it, whatever you have in it, I have it. I experience. Even now, I want to win. Yesterday I didn't win because I already have great names that say, she's winner, she's here, or she's that I want to do that one. Did it happen? You think, are they angry? I get angry. I was like angry at myself when I go to sleep. But that's human being, that's all. We are the same. Believe me, we are. Nobody is special. It's just matter of experience, matter of the trying just keep going. So believe in that. That's what I say.
- [82:34]
B
Sophan, you're an incredible human being. You're inspiring millions of people around the world. Thank you for making some time to come on my show.
- [82:42]
A
Thank you so much. Thank you.
- [82:49]
B
Really hope you enjoyed that conversation. Do think about one thing that you can take away and apply into your own life and also have a think about one thing from this conversation that you can teach to somebody else. Remember, when you teach someone in only three helps them. It also helps you learn and retain the information. Now before you go, just wanted to let you know about Friday 5. It's my free weekly email containing five simple ideas to improve your health and happiness. In that email I share exclusive insights that I do not share anywhere else, including health advice, how to manage your time better, interesting articles or videos that I've been consuming, and quotes that have caused me to stop and reflect. And I have to say, in a world of endless emails, it really is delightful that many of you tell me it is one of the only weekly emails that you actively look forward to receiving. So if that sounds like something you would like to receive each and every Friday, you can sign up for free@drchatterjeet.com Friday 5 Now if you are new to my podcast, you may be interested to know that I have written five books that have been bestsellers all over the world covering all kinds of different topics. Happiness, food, stress, sleep, behavior change and movement, weight loss and so much more. So please do take a moment to check them out. They are all available as paperbacks, ebooks and as audiobooks which I am narrating. If you enjoyed today's episode, it is always appreciate it if you can take a moment to share the podcast with your friends and family or leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful week. And please note that if you want to listen to this show without any adverts at all, that option is now available for a small monthly fee on Apple and on Android. All you have to do is click the link in the episode notes in your podcast and always remember you are the architect of your own health. Making lifestyle change is always worth it because when you feel better, you live more.