Matt Forde • The Resurrection (Spitting Image / Have I Got News For You / Defying Calamity) • #384

Summary

Films To Be Buried With: The Resurrection – Matt Forde (#384)

Release Date: January 21, 2026
Host: Brett Goldstein
Guest: Matt Forde (Comedian, writer, satirist – Spitting Image, Have I Got News For You, The Political Party Podcast)

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Episode Overview

This special “Resurrection” episode features the return of Matt Forde, who was forced to cancel his previous appearance due to a cancer diagnosis and subsequent major surgery. Brett and Matt dive deep into Forde’s experience confronting mortality, the impact on his life and comedy, and then, in classic “Films To Be Buried With” style, traverse through the movies that shaped his worldview, career, and recovery.

The episode glows with warmth, candor, and self-effacing humor as both comedian friends reflect on life, resilience, and, of course, the enduring joy (and sometimes horror) of films.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reunion and Career Reflections

• [03:13] Welcoming Matt back, Brett and Matt reminisce about beginning their careers at the Edinburgh Fringe, performing in "Big Value Comedy," and surviving the dump-like venues:

  "Five new comedians in a cave... people would come and watch. Long, wasn't it? ... The value was good."
  – Matt Forde

• [04:46] Matt’s carefree early energy as observed by Brett:

  "You have always been someone who appeared to me as sort of born to do it... You never seemed nervous."

2. 'Doing What You Love' and Public Perception

• [08:24] Brett recounts an early harrowing gig and the outsider’s view of stand-up:

  "She looked at me with such pity, like, I don't want to be in this Christmas party. This looks horrible. ... I'm so much happier doing this."

• [09:17] Matt shares the awkwardness of explaining the comedy career:

  "They say, 'I've never heard of you.' I'm totally fine with the fact you’ve never heard of me. Why are you so pissed off?"

3. Matt Forde’s Cancer Journey

Diagnosis & Impact:

• [12:17–30:49] Brett asks Matt to share his story openly. Matt is candid, generous, and darkly funny:
  • Diagnosis: Chordoma (rare cancer at the base of the spine) during the 2023 Edinburgh Fringe – nerve pain led to the discovery.
  • Treatment: 10 weeks in hospital, radical surgery, “carving out” of the sacrum, adapting to a stoma bag, self-catheterization, and incontinence management, including an internal device with a button in his scrotum.
  • Resilience:

    "I get scanned every six months. It’s a cancer with a high recurrence rate, but I think I’ve been clear for two years now." [13:36]

  • Six-week scan anxiety:

    "The only bit is when you’re in the waiting room..." [14:46]

• Profound Humor: Matt finds comedy even in describing procedures:

  "There's a button that is now in my balls that I press and that opens the valve... as I look down, it's just off the driver's side." [22:09]

• Outlook on Mortality:

  "I basically made my peace with it. ... Apart from missing my wife, I was like, I’m fine, I’ve had a go at it. I followed all my passions." [26:05]

Adjusting to a New Normal:

• Daily adaptation: The practicalities of managing a stoma, the psychological journey of confronting mortality, and the comfort in hospital friendships.
• Perspective on hardship:

  "The changes to my body are relatively small. People lose limbs and eyes and power of speech." [23:37]

• Cherishing Life:

  "Being alive is incredible... Don’t waste good years worrying about what's going to happen when things go wrong—because they are going to go wrong. ... when things are good, really cherish them and enjoy them." [30:29]

4. On Positivity and Upbringing

• [32:50] Matt reflects on his temperament:

  "I think I was just born that way... I think it’s biochemical. My mum had been a nun before she had me, so we grew up in a Christian house... working-class optimism and belief.”
  — Matt Forde

5. The Film Questions – Matt’s Life in Cinema

The Last Film He Saw

• [36:22] “Goodbye June”—a moving drama about mortality, which resonated deeply post-surgery:

  "I couldn't watch anything bleak for a while…Now I can watch bleak stuff again."

Actor to Play Matt Forde

• [39:09] Alan Ford (Bricktop in Snatch). Matt shares a hilarious story about befriending him:

  "He led this fascinating life... I'm vegetarian because I took LSD in the '60s, I went to a chip shop and all the fish looked like fucking carcasses."

Most Romantic Film

• [42:32] Final choice: Ghost

  "Especially when you've thought about, is there something else going on... Ghost made me absolutely break down. That's a great soundtrack."

Best "One Watch Only" Film

• [45:13] The Lord of the Rings Trilogy

  "They're so long... I get that they're big epics and it's a big deal... I did not need to see all that."

Best Action Film

• [47:39] Terminator 2

  "The special effects still look amazing now... It’s such a better film than The Terminator... it's a luxury film."

Film He Could Have Made

• [49:12] The Full Monty

  "Five working-class blokes are just like, we're skint, runemployed, we've got to do something—let's show our willies off in a working men's club."

Film He Pretended to Like

• [52:02] Citizen Kane

  "I was like, 'Here we go, about to watch the greatest film ever made.' I was like, oh God. ... This is crap."

Film He Hasn’t Seen (and is “mad” about it)

• [53:43] Apocalypse Now

"Guilty Pleasure" Film

• [53:51] Hallmark Christmas movies:

  "I absolutely, unironically love Hallmark Christmas films... they're inevitably gonna get together, I love them."

Film He Shows as a Relationship Test

• [56:00] The Snowman

  "The music is—oh, man. ... If people didn't like The Snowman, we actually went to see the play..."

Most Uncomfortable Film(s)

• [57:24] Hostel and Requiem for a Dream

  "Hostel... I was traumatized for ages... I watched Requiem for a Dream alone in John Richardson's home, and I was harrowed."

Film to Show a Child

• [60:29] Mary Poppins

  "Such a magical film... The songs are great... the whole, like, you know, the suffragette element to it... the magical thinking element is nice."

DVD He’d Leave in His Will

• [63:08] Buried (Ryan Reynolds)

  "Because then people would think, fuck, did we bury him alive? Oh God..."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Recovering from Cancer with Humor:

  “I was terrified by that [stoma and catheterization]...within a day, I was like, this is the easiest thing. Painless. Totally fine.” – [18:52]

• Characterizing Comedy as Escape:

  “It’s a job in which you get disrespected a lot...but the thrill of when it goes well is the greatest feeling on earth.” — Matt Forde [08:47]

• On Facing Death and Living Fully:

  “I need to make my peace with however long I’ve got left...a year would be great, I get all four seasons all over again.” — [26:05]

• On The Full Monty:

  “It actually becomes like an act of economic, rational behavior...You need money and you’re going to make money just showing your willy off…” [49:34]

• On Seeing Oasis Five Times:

  "All five. And, you know, even on the fifth one, I thought, my love of this is completely undiminished." [27:44]

• On Past Life vs. Resurrection:

  “I’d come back now, I think. Yeah, 40s is good... you’ve got a bit sussed out, and you’re still mobile enough to enjoy stuff. My knees haven’t gone yet.” [35:59]

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• 03:13 – Reunion; Big Value Comedy reminiscence
• 12:17 – Discussing Matt’s cancer diagnosis
• 14:46 – Scan anxiety and hospital experience
• 18:45 – The realities of post-surgery life (bag, catheter)
• 23:37 – Perspective on bodily changes and resilience
• 30:29 – Philosophy on life, anxiety, and living in the moment
• 36:22 – Last film watched (“Goodbye June”) and emotional recovery
• 39:09 – Who would play Matt in a movie (Alan Ford/Bricktop)
• 42:32 – Most romantic film; why “Ghost” broke Matt
• 45:13 – “One-watch-only” movies—Lord of the Rings trilogy
• 47:39 – Best action film—Terminator 2
• 49:12 – Film he could have made—The Full Monty
• 52:02 – Movie pretended to like—Citizen Kane
• 53:51 – Guilty pleasure—Hallmark Christmas movies
• 56:00 – Relationship test film—The Snowman
• 57:24 – Most uncomfortable films—Hostel and Requiem for a Dream
• 60:29 – Film to show a child—Mary Poppins
• 63:08 – DVD left in the will—Buried (Ryan Reynolds)
• 64:13 – Matt’s tour plug: “Defying Calamity” through June 2026

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Tone & Language

Candid, irreverent, humorous, and frequently moving—both Brett and Matt balance grim realities with the sheer absurdity of life, career, and cinema. Matt’s ability to laugh at his own misfortune and find joy in small things makes his account all the more inspiring.

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Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

• This episode is not just about films but about how close brushes with death can clarify and energize your life and art.
• Matt Forde’s deeply honest, hilarious, and hopeful story—told in his own words—shows how humor can live alongside pain.
• Filled with practical, often funny takes on films both critically lauded and derided, it’s a crash course in idiosyncratic taste and resilience.
• The “Resurrection” theme finds moving literalization—Matt really did come back from the edge, and the films that anchor his story illuminate a unique blend of nostalgia, working-class optimism, and comic timing.
• The episode is a reminder to pursue your own passions, accept setbacks with grace, and hold onto the things and the people you love—on and off the screen.

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To see Matt Forde live:
Catch “Defying Calamity” on tour through June 2026. Tickets at mattford.com.

For extra 20 minutes of this conversation and bonus video:
Join Brett Goldstein’s Patreon at patreon.com/brettgoldstein

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Not sure where to start?
If you want the funniest, rawest stories:

• Tune in around [13:27–30:00] for Matt’s cancer journey
• [49:12] for why “The Full Monty” is the most Matt Forde movie
• [52:02] for why Citizen Kane is “crap”
• [56:00] for the touching love of "The Snowman"
• [64:13] for a taste of Matt’s tour and uncanny Trump impression

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Be ready to laugh, reflect, and maybe see your own cinema rituals in a new (and lighter) light.

Transcript

[A]

Look how it's only Films to be Buried with the Resurrection. Hello and welcome to Films to be Buried with the Resurrection. My name is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian, an actor, a writer, a director, a poltergeist and I love filming. As Robert Frost once said, the best way out is always through the emergency exit door that's just to the side of the screen at the front. Every week I invite a special guest over. I tell them they died. Then I get them to discuss their life through the films that meant the most to them. But not this week. This week I use my magical shamanic powers to bring back the brilliant comedian, presenter, podcaster, writer and all round legend, Mr. Matt Ford. You can still watch my film all of you, which I made with Will Bridges and Imogen Poots on Apple tv. Thank you to everyone who's watched it, said nice things about it. We're grateful, very proud of this film. We hope that you will watch it again. Shrinking Season 3 will premiere this month on Wednesday, January 28th on Apple TV. It's so soon. Oh my goodness. You're gonna love it. Head over to the Patreon at patreon.com forward/ Brett Goldstein, where you get an extra 20 minutes with Matt Ford. We talk beginnings and endings. He tells me a secret. You get the whole episode uncut ad free and you also get it as a video. Check it out over at patreon.com forward/brettgoldstein also at the Patreon. Every other week you get a rewind classic episode. So Matt Ford, I love Matt Ford, he's one of the best. You might know him as a comedian, a writer, a political satirist. You know him from the last leg, from Spitting Image and from his own podcast, Political Party. Matt is about to go on tour with his new stand up show, Defying Calamity which starts from 28th of January and goes to 10th June 2026. You can get tickets for [e-mail] I've known Matt for years. I think he's wonderful. I was very excited to resurrect him. This is one of the all time greats. I really think you're going to love it. So that is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy episode 384 of Films to be Buried with the Resurrect. Hello and welcome to Films to Be Buried with the Resurrection. It is I, Brett Goldstein, and I am joined again today by an actor, a writer, a podcaster, a radio personality, a TV personality, a human personality, an in life personality. A award winning comedian, a journalist, a philosopher, a spitting imager, a puppeteer, a book writer, a essayist, a. Wow, this

[B]

is getting too far.

[A]

A poet and a hero. He's here. Can you believe he's come back from the dead? Welcome to the world. Here he is. It's the wonderful. It's Matt Ford.

[B]

Oh, thank you so much. That's the best introduction I've ever been given.

[A]

Welcome back. Lovely to see you. Matt Ford. I ain't seen you in fucking ages.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

And I'm very happy to see you.

[B]

It's great to be back. I've seen a lot of you on telly and on the screen, which has been wonderful.

[A]

Well, that's nice.

[B]

It's great. It's so cool.

[A]

It is, it is. Listen, it is cool and I don't ever think it's normal.

[B]

No, but it's cool for people who want. Obviously it's cool for the people who get to watch the great stuff that you create. But it is also, you are a complete inspiration. So many people, and I'm not sure if you realize that is that to see someone that you've worked with and liked go on and climb Everest is so inspiring. You're like, he's done it. Because obviously in comedy people become successful. You've done it on a scale that is phenomenal and that is fully deserved. And you're a really good man. And that I think, you know, that makes people feel. It just makes you. It's just marvelous. Completely inspirational. And I don't know if people tell you that.

[A]

And that's all we've got time for. Thank you. Thank you for coming on. This is what I wanted, you back. Just Matt Ford. That is too lovely to say. It makes me very uncomfortable and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. What a lovely thing to say. Speaking of inspirational, here we are. Here we are with the great Matt Ford, a man I've known 15 years, maybe used to. We had it. I did a big value comedy at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Sean Walsh, George Rygard and McCaffrey. Danny McLoughlin.

[B]

Oh, McLaughlin.

[A]

Yeah. Was it Paul McCraffrey as well? Yeah, no, it was him as well.

[B]

Imagine trying to explain big value comedy to Hollywood people. Five of us. Five of us in a cave.

[A]

I have tried

[B]

five new comedians in a cave and people would come, come and watch.

[A]

Long, wasn't it? It was. It was long. It was a long big valley. I mean, that that value was good.

[B]

Oh, yeah, the valley was big, but the venue was disgusting. I Mean, it was like they had like those moldy bogeys dripping from the wall. Like people will have got respiratory diseases.

[A]

Yeah, you. You definitely left. You. You came for the laughs and you stayed for the spores. The thing was, you. We went after us. Anyway. We saw you. Yes, we saw you a lot. And you were always so funny and always. You have always been someone who appeared to me as sort of born to do it, is how I describe it. Like, you never seemed nervous. Like, I, like big value. I was still pretty new and I think I was always slightly nervous before a show and all of that. And you would just show up like it was all a party. Very happy to be there. Very. I just was like, God, he knows what he's doing, this one.

[B]

Just a idiot. I didn't realize what was at stake. You didn't realize.

[A]

You should have been scared.

[B]

Yeah, I should have been taking it more seriously. Do you know what I think is, I think if. And obviously your sort of upbringing was the basis of, you know, your sort of famous Edinburgh show, but I think if you've come from another world and then you end up in comedy, you're like, it's a treat.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my God, yeah.

[B]

Like, we're the luckiest men alive to be able to do this and get paid to perform in a cave and, you know, an asbestos drenched den. It's either this or.

[A]

Or a dinner party.

[B]

Really crap alternatives.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think I always just thought, wow, this. This world is amazing.

[A]

I haven't told this story in years, but I did once. It was like a Christmas fucking. It was at where Dirty Dirty Dicks is.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And it was a sort of trick gig where really it was a corporate gig, but you know what I mean? But then they just paid you like 15 quid to be there. And it was this like office Christmas party in this underground sort of venue. And I was still new. I don't know how long I've been doing it, maybe five years. And I was on in the middle and I turn up and it is this fucking hammered office. Like, awful scary that. So drunk. They've been drinking all day. They're really Larry and the emcee's dying and the first act goes on and just gets heckled and. And I watch it and I'm like, okay, okay. And I'm thinking, how the fuck do you. And I'm like, what? Okay, you can't do material. They're not listening. You have to deal with them. This is the only way this is gonna work. Right. So I Go on. And I talk to the boss. Whatever I do, I somehow do okay. I survived this. And I remember just thinking, feeling like you're just there, just fucking surviving, right? And so I do. I do pretty, pretty well. And I come off, and the thing continues to be kind of a terrible gig. And there's nowhere to. There's no backstage or anything. I'm just sort of standing by side, and this really drunk, posh woman comes over to me, and she's like, entitled, horrible vibe. And she sort of goes, you did. You did well. And I go, thank you. And she says something like, so, what happens now? As if to say, obviously, this is nothing. What are you really doing with your life?

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

And I remember I sort of said. I think I actually said just more of this. It's more of this. And she looked at me with such pity, like, I don't want to be in this Christmas party. This looks horrible. And, yes, this is. This has also been horrible. But I'm so much happier doing this. You know what I mean?

[B]

Oh, absolutely. Because even. I mean, it's. It's a job in which you get disrespected a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People heckle and they talk over you, and then I always hate it. I hate talking about what I do for a living to people. You know, someone says what you do, you think, well, now I've got to have a terrible conversation where obviously people are aware of what you do. It's easy because they go, I saw you on that thing. If they don't, they're annoyed. I say, I'm a comedian. They go, have you done telly? You go, yeah. And then you have to list what you've done.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they go, well, I've never seen you. And then they get annoyed with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I've never heard of you. I'm like, I'm totally fine with the fact you've never heard of me. Why are you so pissed off?

[A]

Why do they get so annoyed?

[B]

Well, I've never heard of you. What have you been on? I watched that all the time. I don't remember you being like, this is horrible. Well, I was. I'm so. I'm not gonna, like, get it up on YouTube. I obviously wasn't very memorable, and I'm fine with that. It's horrible. Or say something funny. Then you're like, oh, God. God, it's horrible, those parts of it. But then obviously, the rewards in terms of being able to just say what you want and go out there and you feel like you've kind of not like often think about this about like young footballers who go and sign for an academy when they're like 11 and it's on the other side of the country. Think this mad that they've got like the sort of fortitude to back themselves at that age and take themselves away from their family. And in a way, comedy is a little bit like that. Like you are just out there on your own and you're traveling around dying on your ass for years for no money. Yeah, but it's so character forming. But it is. The thrill of when it goes well is the greatest feeling on earth.

[A]

Someone texted me and asked me for recommendations for like they said, where's the good places to go? Out in London. And I thought, I have no idea. I just do gigs. I don't know. I don't have a life. I don't know.

[B]

Pizza Express.

[A]

I don't know where you'd always be. Comedy. I don't know.

[B]

Leicester Square. Watching film Wembley, I guess, for summer. Got no idea.

[A]

No idea. Hi there. It's your neighbor Maureen here. I used to spend an embarrassing amount of time every month trying to understand where my money was actually going. Checking accounts, squinting at statements, promising myself that I'd be better next month. Eventually, I realized I needed help. And that's when I started using Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. What I love most is seeing everything in one place. It tracks my subscriptions and lets me cancel the ones I don't want anymore with just a few taps, which saves me time and stops my bank account from gasping every month. It also automatically categorizes my spending so I can spot patterns without doing any math. I am a new woman. I set budgets, get helpful alerts, and even set savings goals that Rocket Money quietly works towards in the background. No spreadsheets, no stress. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] Films. That's RocketMoney.com Films. Thank you so much.

[B]

Protein is now at Starbucks and it's

[A]

never tasted so good.

[B]

You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or Matcha. I'm wide awake.

[A]

Try it today at Starbucks. Now, Matt Ford, can we talk about something very, very, very big and very well? Wonderful ending, which is that the last time that you were scheduled to do this, you scheduled to do this a few years ago and you had to cancel because you had cancer. You had cancer. I don't know another word for it.

[B]

I did. I'm sorry about that, and I'm sorry to have messed you around.

[A]

Well, this is why I brought you

[B]

here, because for a bollocking of all

[A]

the excuses, you thought I was gonna let that guy. You thought he'll understand. No, we had a session booked in. No, you had. You had, and I believe it was very, very, very serious. And I am beyond delighted that you are out the other side. And I wonder, you know, if we can talk about it a bit, because this is a podcast. We talk about death and we talk. And this is the resurrection episode. So he's genuinely so excited to have you back. And I have asked if we can talk about this or if any listeners are like, jesus, I think you're okay to talk about this, but I'm fascinated in a. You seem better than ever, which is wonderful, but it must have been absolutely terrifying. And I wonder how your brain, how your mind got through it, and if now, on the other side of it, do you have. Do you live in fear of it? Or you sort of have you let it go? Like, where are you with all of that, if I may ask?

[B]

You can. You can ask, and you can ask me anything about it, and I'm happy to talk about it. And in a way, it was.

[A]

So.

[B]

It's a couple of years ago now. It was 20, 23. And I don't live in fear of it. To cut to that question, I get scanned every. I get scanned every six months.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it's a cancer with a high recurrence rate, but I think I've been clear for two months now. For two years, rather. So statistically, that's good. You know, the first two years are the most dangerous.

[A]

When you go for the scan, how long do you have to wait for the result? Or is it instant?

[B]

It's a few months. It's like maybe six weeks. So you go for the scan, go into an mri. Fuck. Have you ever had an mri?

[A]

I have had an mri. Yeah. It's.

[B]

Did you enjoy it?

[A]

No. Did you?

[B]

I love them. It's probably the most still. I am every six. I just lie there. They pop some music on and you just lie there in this tube. I fall asleep in there. I get so peaceful with the damn racket. Yeah, Pops and die straight, son. Calms me down.

[A]

This is wonderful. The only thing that can get you to sleep, darling, pop the MRI on

[B]

like a YouTube video, not a whale. Music of MRI machines to get Me off. That's a really good idea, actually.

[A]

So that six weeks that I would imagine. Hard not to feel slightly anxious, those six weeks. Or not.

[B]

The only bit is when you're in the waiting room and they say, matthew Ford. And at that point, that's when I think, oh, man. But the oncologist who looks after me at UCLH in London is an amazing guy. And literally, me and my wife go. And he doesn't do any kind of, like, reality telly. He doesn't go, we've got the scans and I can now reveal there's none of that. Before my ass can hit the seat, he goes, it's clear you're fine. He literally says. And that is word for word, he goes, it's clear you're fine. And then we sit down and talk about football for half an hour. He's brilliant.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Oh, this. I love the way you deliver this information. But then, obviously, you have to then walk out through a waiting room where other people are waiting to get news that isn't going to be good. So you can't kind of celebrate there and then kind of have to have a poker face and then you get out into the street. Yes, I can get it. So that's. That's the only time I worry about it. So it was in my spine. It was on the base of my spine called a chordoma, which only one in a million people gets, a really rare form of sarcoma. And I'd. I mean, I didn't feel it. I had. I was performing at Edinburgh and I had really bad nerve pain on my left bum cheek, right, that I initially thought I'd pulled a hamstring or something, but the pain was getting so bad that I couldn't move it. And then I saw a doctor in Edinburgh and they said, oh, you probably slipped a disc, so have an mri because we need to know which one you've done and you just need physio. And then I went back and the guy. Oh, man. So I got a scan over in Glasgow. The amazing doctor called Rajan at the Glasgow Royal Infant was really funny and he was Scottish, Asian, and he would. I hate back then, I hated needles and was like, I can't. He was like, well, we're gonna have to take bloods. I was like, oh, man. And he go, oh, stop being so English. How did you not conquer the world? How did you enslave so many people with that attitude? You're weak. Nurse, we've got another weak Englishman over here. And I was Just like. I was like, this guy's brilliant. I was having such a. My wife came along and obviously I didn't realize what the result of this thing was going to be, and I don't think he did. So all month I was saying to myself, you're going to love this guy. He is so funny. His bangs are so much. We turn off and he's like ashen faced. He's like, please come through. I was like. I was like, man, turn it on a bit.

[A]

How bad is my hamstring exactly?

[B]

And then we go into this room. My wife is a psychologist who worked in oncology at the time. So he's using these words. He's like, oh, there's a lesion. I was like, okay. He's like, yeah, it's a bit unusual. The penny was not dropping. And she had to say, is it cancer? And he went, yeah. I thought, oh my God. And then you're just like, I don't know what is gonna happen to me now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he sort of sufficiently reassured me. I mean, at first he was like, oh, you can have this sort of radiation called proton beam where they. It sounds kind of terrifying, but it was like it basically just releases the dose when it hits the tumor. It doesn't damage the tissue on the way through in the same way. So I was like, well, this is. I'm just going to get magic laser and I'll be all good. So I was like, I'm the luckiest cancer victim on the planet. They're going to go in there, zap me all good. It quickly became apparent that that was not going to be the way and that I needed quite radical surgery. So at the base of my spine, carved out and removed, which is when I was meant to come on the show. And I was in Hospital for 10 weeks in North London, basically recovering from that because I just had this, the sacrum basically carved out and I can't believe I can still walk. I just think that's.

[A]

Yeah, that is incredible.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

I don't say this as a joke. Are you shorter?

[B]

No, I'm not. No, I'm not. No, no. And I have actually do Pilates.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right. My physio put me onto it. It's really helped me because I basically had to learn to walk again because I was in a hospital, Bedford. The final bit of the surgery, basically to cover the gap where that huge bit of bone was, they pulled the muscles up from my buttocks and stitched them together to create a muscle flap. So like my, my bum is Gone.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So the muscles in my legs will be moved and because they cut loads of nerves. So I've got like a colostomy bag now and that's for that. I've got stoma, but that's. I was terrified by that. And it's nothing. It's the smallest change and I have to. The thing that I was really worried about is I have to self catheterize to piss.

[A]

So what is that? I've never quite pleased. If you don't mind. Does that mean you have to stick something into your.

[B]

I have to stick a tube down there six or seven times a day, which obviously. Exactly. I was just like, what, man? The doctor said to me, you know, we've got patients here that do it. They never even bring it up. I was like, they're sticking a rod down their penis and they never bring it. I was like, don't lie to me, man. Like, tell me that I'll get used to it. Honestly, within a day. I was like, this is the easiest thing. Painless. Totally fine, it's painless. Totally painless. But part of the. Is painless because basically because of the nerves they cut to get that bone out of the bladder and bowel ones. So that's why I lost like bladder and bowel function, so. Oh, man. Well, I'm thinking of other things to tell you, but basically it also leads. It also leads to erectile dysfunction. So I've been having treatment for that. Pills, pumps, injections. I mean, the injections are miraculous. But when you're there and you're having to like, do it with a nurse and they're like, now you inject your penis. I mean, I've never sweated so much in my, like instant, immediate sweat. They like just stick it through the. You know, it has to go right in.

[A]

You're sticking it in the. In the. In the. In the hoe.

[B]

In the side, the sort of the shaft.

[A]

Right. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. Not down the. You're like, man, I can't. A hand physically will not do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can't get a man to stab himself in the car in front of you. What? Yeah. What? And then it's immediately they leave the room.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, we'll give you 10 minutes. And then I have to sit there and basically rub it. And it's miraculous. But you. You have to get the dose right, otherwise you end up with a prior pism, which is a boner that never dies. Basically.

[A]

Yeah. When does it go away? Do you have to stick another injection in to get rid of it.

[B]

You have to. They start on a low dose and I go back every few weeks we just like inject it with more and see to get like the optimum boner without going too far. But I had surgery the other. A couple of months ago because part of the problem is this. Do you wish. Are you regretting asking now?

[A]

No, I'm. I'm very grateful you're sharing all this and. And the. The more you tell me, the more amazing it is. I mean, you're amazing. Continue, please.

[B]

Thank you very much.

[A]

I mean, it. It does make me go thinking of sticking things into your dick, but. Oh, man, what a legend. It's just.

[B]

It's such a hard thing to do. But then because. So I have to catheterize to pee because all the nerves have been cut, so.

[A]

Sorry, does that mean you don't know when you need a wee?

[B]

That is. You're the first person that's ever like clocks onto that. Yeah. I never know. So I just got used to basically

[A]

every two hours you go. I just check.

[B]

You're so astute. So every four hours minimum. And then after 500 mils, give it half an hour. And. And I love beer and I'm sadly one of those people that has the capacity to be able to drink a lot of it. So if I go to the pub and have like 10 pints. Well, yeah, anyway, so I was leaking as well because I didn't have any control. So wearing nappies all the time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you're having 10 pints, I'm taking a rucksack full of tenor pants on a popcorn. Like I'm going for a hike. Oh, no, just going to the pot to piss my pants. And so they put this thing in me that I had recently. It's called an artificial urinary sphincter. It's like a little lasso that goes around the pee pipe that inflates with water to tighten it so that in between peeing, I'm not leaking.

[A]

Okay, so it's like a. Like a cock ring?

[B]

Well, yeah, but internal. But obviously I need to open that valve to be able to get a catheter down there. So there is a button that is now in my balls that I press and that opens the valve so that can get catheter. There is a me and it is in my scrotum and I press it four times like that. I have to pin it down, obviously.

[A]

Where is it? It's inside.

[B]

Just. Yeah, it's under the flesh. As I look down at my balls, it's it's just off the driver's side. It's just off the. The right nut.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I'll show you next time I see you pin it with my left hand. And then. But it is at first trying to

[A]

like it on the zoom for the Patriots.

[B]

It's. It's a miraculous bit of kit.

[A]

And you, if I may, you've lost feelings down there or you've just got used to this or doing all of this, that. It doesn't hurt.

[B]

Yeah, it's basically numb. There's a little bit of sensation there, but it's basically numb, which is why when I'm injecting it, I can't feel anything. So actually, that, in a way, is a blessing, because then it's not too. Obviously, at first, you're like, I've got to pinch my balls, what, 10 times a day. I also Trying to pin something down in that part of the body.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not trying to find a peanut in a box. The mozzarella bag. Do you know? I mean, it's like, oh, my God. It's just the squishiest in the burrat. Yeah, It works. It's amazing. Wow. So I feel really good about it all. I feel like I'm cancer free, which is the main thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like the changes to my body are relatively small, really. I mean, people lose limbs and eyes and power of speech and stuff like that. The surgery was brutal. Like, the recovery from it was painful and that was what I was worried about. And I. A lot of nerve pain, which kind of drove me mad while I was in there. But then I met the people that I met in that hospital from, like, the cleaners who came into my room every morning, the nurses. I'm still friends with some of the nurses. We go out for dinner together and I'm still in touch with my surgeon. And, like, people became lifelong friends, people who were there for you in your hour of need that you've never met before. And I loved the food. The food. Oh, my God. If you ever end up at the Royal National Orthopedic Hospital in Stanmore, go there to dinner. Food, man. It was. People start calling it the hotel instead of the hospital. People just catch themselves. I'm coming up to the hotel. Sorry, hospital. Because I had my own room and this was all nhs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was incredible. It was, man. It's such a cool place.

[A]

That's amazing, man. Yeah. And so now you have monthly. Six monthly checkups. You have a. But a button in your. Button in. And injection. Everything Works. Yeah. And I. And you're used to all of the stuff, the bag and the. And so I assume the bag you just have to empty. That all happens naturally or you need to do something for this.

[B]

Yeah. So the bag, the stoma is like the hole. So I've got like a new bum hole.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Basically on my abdomen. And then you just put a new bag on every day. You just got like some removal spray. You peel the bag off, the bag fills up and just empty it.

[A]

And you have that like sort of strapped to your body.

[B]

It's like. It's sticky, it's like an adhesive. It's like a really sticky thing. And you just like. And then it's got like a little funnel on it. You can empty it. I mean, at first I was just like, oh, man, how am I going to go to football matches again or holiday or. Then you just get used to it. And my wife was really good. She was like, just deal with whatever. Because of shit, really, if you have to get off a bus and empty it. So I've been out, sometimes I've had to empty in the street. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, obviously I'm not stood in the middle of the street as like an act of rebellion. Like, what's your problem? As discreet as I possibly can be. But you think, actually these things are quite small in the grand scheme of things. I feel like I had a very lucky escape. And it does make you feel, you know, certainly the time, you know, at one point I didn't know what they were going to tell me next because I didn't know what sort of cancer it was. And they're like, well, obviously depending on what it is. So it depends on how long you've got. And you stop. Fuck.

[A]

Oh, Jesus.

[B]

And you just kind of. I remember, just remember thinking, I need to make my peace with however long I've got left. And I was like. I was going, you know, what, five years, It's a lifetime to a five year old. So, I mean, it's a long amount of time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A year be great. I get all four seasons all over again. And then I basically got myself down to a fortnight and I basically made my peace with it. So then when. And obviously I would have been gutted, you know, I didn't want to die, but I kind of. I actually thought, apart from missing my wife, I was like, I'm fine, I've had a go at it. I followed all my passions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've had a really Good time. So what more would I be doing?

[A]

When you had it down to two weeks in your head, what would you have done in those two weeks? Did you have, like, well, I'm not going to work. I'm going to do this. Then, like, what was your. Obviously, I'm going to cancel Brett's podcast.

[B]

I've got to do Brett's podcast before I die. Otherwise you'll never forget free.

[A]

Did you. In that two weeks, in the two weeks in your head, did you have, like a list or a plan? Like, this is what I'm gonna. I'm gonna want to do. If it's down to two weeks, I

[B]

think I basically just wanted to go to the pub and not in a way not to, like, get obliterated. I was like, I just want to sit with my mates in my favorite pubs, have some nice beer, a few bowls of chips, and just, you know, say good night. I don't know. I mean, maybe if. I don't think. I didn't have any grand plans to travel anywhere or do anything like skydive or anything like that.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Just gone to as many football matches as I could have, I think, and just maybe just chilled out

[A]

a couple more times.

[B]

Oh, man. Thank God. Exactly. Then I got to live to see that.

[A]

Yeah. I've not known anyone happier than you.

[B]

Oh, man. I was. It was just the greatest thing. It was the. I went to five of them, including two in la. I went to the Rose bowl and it was just. I couldn't. Which is one of the greatest experiences of my life. They are so much fun.

[A]

And it was every time.

[B]

All five. All five.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And, you know, even on the fifth one, I thought, my love of this is completely undiminished.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

At no point do I think I've seen it. Now, everyone else, I need more of this identical set list. I need it over and over and over again. Yeah.

[A]

It never changed. Right. It wasn't different in the five. No.

[B]

Nor should it have.

[A]

No. And the banter, the same. Was there any bad?

[B]

He would mix it up a little bit. Certainly by the time they got to the American gigs, they were a bit looser on the chat. And Liam would tell a different story. Guy was out in Santa Monica this morning, down on a beach, and his Sharp popped its head out the water. He went, Mr. Gallagher said, It's Liam to you. Good luck getting on them potheads up in LA to do the Poznan. So you're gonna show that shark who's Boston or what? He said, I'll get him doing it, mate. And then the next night, it was a crab. Some crab pops its head out the sea. I don't know what they made of it. I was like, man, he's so eccentric.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

I loved it all. So there you go, you see, I got to live. I got to see Oasis. I got to come back on here.

[A]

You're fucking incredible. Matt Ford. What a fucking guy. What a guy. Talk about an inspiration. Jesus Christ. You're wonderful. It's so wonderful. It's obviously a story with a lot of horrors, horrible bits in it, but you're really. It's really inspiring how you dealt with it. So I get one last question, I suppose. So how long was the period from hearing it, hearing the news to all clear? How long was this?

[B]

So that was pretty. I was diagnosed at the end of August, and then I was operated on mid October. So I was only aware I had cancer for about six weeks.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then they carved me open. They physically removed it. So I just gone. Yes. It was pretty sharpish, really. It was just. The thing was just physically recovering from surgery of that scale.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Was then within, like, the painful and longer process.

[A]

And while you were. So while you were in recovery, the news was, you're all clear.

[B]

Yeah. They just said, you know, your last scan's clear. And then I go back every six months, get a scan, and they've all been clear, so.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I just operate on the basis that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Probably won't come back.

[A]

You need to sort of start a religion or something. Because this is all really. Yeah, it's really. It's so I, I, it's obviously. And it just seems unusual to me the way your brain works, how positive and how you handled all of that seems so. I don't know, at least, it's. At least give us a TED Talk, mate.

[B]

Are they still going?

[A]

Well, they'll bring them back. I think they are.

[B]

Something like that.

[A]

Something like that.

[B]

I always worry about, like, you can sort of see how tempting it would be. I don't want to go into the wellness space. Do you know what I mean? But I sort of feel like I should. If you feel positive about stuff, I think you should tell people because then it helps them if they're going through something.

[A]

But it is. But in all seriousness, listening to you guys gotta. I know everyone I know is so anxious and so filled with worry and, and, you know, you went through something that is genuinely very. You'd be mad not to feel anxious and worried. And you. The, the way you have talked about it and dealt with it is incredible. Truly inspiring.

[B]

Well, that's very kind. I mean, obviously I was worried in the lead up. I knew that I was going to, like, have traumatic surgery that was going to hurt. And I was scared and I would cry a lot in the run up to the surgery, but I always just thought, you have to do you know what it did, actually, it sort of reaffirmed my general view of life, which is being alive is incredible. And I realize that's a relatively privileged position. You know, I grew up as working class in Nottingham, but I still realize that growing up in England affords you privileges that you don't have if you're currently on the eastern border of Ukraine. Just in general, life is amazing. And that I remember even as a kid thinking, I've got no idea what's going to happen today. Anything could happen. And I liked that. I liked that feat. I didn't find that scary. I was like, literally anything could happen. Who knows what's going to happen when I get on that bus? You know, fuck all happens in places like that. But sometimes stuff does happen. And I just like it reaffirmed that view that, like, being alive is amazing. It's like to be cherished. And also don't waste good years worrying about what's going to happen when things go wrong, because they are going to go wrong. We all die. We all get it. Like, bad stuff happens. And often it's terribly unfair and there's often no reason for it, and surrendering yourself to that is quite difficult. But when things are good, really cherish them and enjoy them, because stuff does go wrong. And even when it goes wrong, there was still amazing moments. I had a really genuinely wonderful time in that hospital, even when I was in pain. So even in the. Even in the darkest moments, there was still such a really, such a good laugh in there. At my lowest point in my life, there were still moments that were really magical. This episode is brought to you by Fandango. People say fans are too distracted these days, but the truth is, when a great movie hits the screen, you show up. You stay glued, invested, part of the story. And without fans like you, there'd be no cinema magic, no shared moments. So head to fandango.com to get tickets, stream or rent or buy top movies and series. Fandango loves fans.

[A]

Were you born this way, do you think? Were you raised this way?

[B]

I thought about this so often because

[A]

you have always been like that. When I say. When I say about when I first met you, like In Edinburgh and stuff. It's like you were like that then. This is what I mean. You weren't worried. You didn't appear to be, like, stressed about the fringe. You were like just having the time of your life.

[B]

It's always, what a lark like this. We could be working on a coal mine.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And it.

[B]

And, well, I think we were actually one of those venues.

[A]

That's funny.

[B]

You just think that.

[A]

Scissors.

[B]

This is a treat. You know what I mean? You think this is. This isn't real life or obviously if you want to get somewhere, you have to put the hours in. So it's hard work in that sense and applying yourself to make the most of your talent. But it's not graft, it's not. It's not the sort of treadmill of life that so many people are beaten down by. So I think I was born that way. I think I just got lucky. I think it's biochemical. I think my mum had been a nun before she had me. So we grew up in like a Christian house. So it was like we have given strong values and I think a sense of like, working class optimism and belief. I guess if you grow up Christian, then you think it'll all be worth it someday. So I think that kind of helps.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even though I. I'm not sure what I think anymore because definitely going through that made me think, oh, maybe there is something else. Maybe there's something else going on out there. Sort of definitely just nudged me a bit back towards, like, more likelihood to believe in something. But, yes, I think I was just born that way. I think I just got lucky and was born basically dopey. I think you have to be a little bit simple. I think it helps. Basically got the mind of a dog. And I think that, yeah, it's like food. I'll eat anything but sin. Yeah. And it's great.

[A]

Matthew Ford, you have been brought back to life because I like you. You get a second chance. But what point in your life will you come back? What will you change? What will you keep the same? The choice is your.

[B]

Do I answer those questions now?

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

I think I come back at this exact point.

[A]

God bless you.

[B]

Because I think if I come back, younger one, I'm going to have to just relive all the stuff I've already done. I've done this already.

[A]

Yes. You wouldn't change anything.

[B]

I don't. I don't think. I don't have a burning desire to. There's nothing. I think I really wish could go back and rectify that. I just think you get things right and wrong in life. That's part of the human experience. You kind of have to get over your mistakes and not dwell on them and wish you could turn back to me because you can't. Even though I accept that in this universe I'm being given that opportunity, I'm not taking it. I think you. I mean, I don't know. I think 40s is a pretty good age.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I always felt 40 and I think I always dressed 40.

[A]

That's funny.

[B]

I imagine when we were knocking about, I was wearing Sweet jacket.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What the fuck was I doing? I was 20. I was dressing like Jeremy Clarkson.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

What was wrong with me?

[A]

You were always 40. That makes sense.

[B]

I was just always. I was into, like, politics and stuff. I just always felt old. Whereas now I'm like, finally, I'm the age that I've always dressed.

[A]

Meant to be. Yeah.

[B]

So I'd come back now, I think. Yeah, 40s is good because you've got a bit of. You got a bit sussed out, haven't you? And you're still mobile enough to enjoy stuff. Yeah, my knees haven't gone yet.

[A]

Well, the living are very excited to see you again. They want to discuss films. The films should represent your life and your taste. So let's discuss. What was the last film you saw, Matthew Ford?

[B]

The last film I saw, Brett Goldstein, was Goodbye June.

[A]

Oh, wow. Shit. How was it? I have not seen it yet because I am scared I'm going to cry all the time. How was it?

[B]

I think you will cry. It's very, very good. And actually, for a period of time after my surgery, I couldn't watch anything bleak. I actually couldn't consume anything bleak. I was just like, man. I couldn't watch anything violent or sad or I was just enough. Whereas actually, now I can sufficient times past that I can now watch bleak stuff again. And it's a very sweet film. So it's Helen Mirren in hospital with, I think he has cancer, Timothy Spore, her husband. And Kate Winslet directed it.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

It's brilliant and she's phenomenal in it. And it's. It's very sad. An old woman dying, surrounded by her family and whether they're getting on or not. But it's great. It's a really good film. But it is the sort of film I've only just been able to start watching again.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Had you recorded this another day, what would the other answer have been? A load of Christmas films.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I've just had to stop watching those

[A]

because of the rules. You have to.

[B]

Yeah, you can't. Too sad. You can't. You're like, it's coming around again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just got to wait it out until November and then I can get stuck in again.

[A]

It's interesting, the goodbye June, and you're not wanting to watch bleak stuff. I watched Hamnet yesterday, which I have been putting off because. Because it is hard to. Sometimes I find film and art and entertainment such a strange thing where you think, okay, I'm gonna go out, spend some money on a film about a dead kid. What am I. What. Why am I doing this? I know it's gonna be good for me. Why the hell. What. This is our Saturday night. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. Anyway, it was beautiful, and I. And I did love it, and I'm glad I went. But it is strange. You sort of think, why do we do this to ourselves? But it is good for you.

[B]

I think it is. And also, it's. I think sometimes with any sort of entertainment, it is. There's something just about watching something that someone else has created that even if you don't like it, there's stuff from it you can take. There's still. It's still enough in there that you go, well, I liked that bit. Or their performance or whatever it was. There's still a great joy, I think, in watching something that someone else has made.

[A]

Whatever it is, for sure.

[B]

Just seeing someone's talent, you go, that's cool.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it was. It was just a very beautiful thing. I really liked it. I liked everything in it, actually. Really. It was very beautifully done, and I liked the world of it. And it was. It's good. It is good for you because it's all empathy and catharsis and all that shit. Anyway, who do you think should play you in the film of your life? Matt Ford.

[B]

I'm gonna go for another Ford. I'm gonna go for Alan Ford, who is also known as Bricktop Tony from Snatch.

[A]

Okay. Oh, him. Okay. Oh, great. Yeah.

[B]

He has been in so many films. So he's. His big role is Bricktop in Snatch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He also narrates Lock Stock. He's in An American Werewolf in London. He's in the Long Good Friday. He's in so many classic films.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But his big gig is playing Bricktok. And so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is not meant to be like a crowbar in. I. I think his voice is amazing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I love the way he talks like that. That sort of menace. Now, what's going on here, Brit, for your podcast? You're trying to mag me off. You know, just like, I got to know him, you know Lloyd Langford, the phenomenal Welsh comedian.

[A]

Brilliant.

[B]

Years ago. It's like 10 years ago, we were drinking in a pub. We're talking about Alan Ford. I was just like, I just found him such an amazing performer, just, like, so terrifying. And Lloyd was like, you know, you can just email actors and take him out for dinner. No one does that. We eat, we're drunk. We email his agent and say, we're two comedians, massive fan of him. Can we take him out for dinner? They get back while we're in the pub and say, he's a big fan of comedy, he'd love for you to take him out. And then they say, and I would like you to know he's a vegetarian. And when he says vegetarian, he means vegetarian and not a cunt. So, like, oh, my God, this is gonna be. Took him out for dinner to, like, a really nice vegetarian restaurant in London. And he obviously looks and sounds like Bricktop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he led this fascinating life as I'm vegetarian because I took LLSD in the 60s, I went to a chip shop and all the fish look like fucking carcasses now. Who the fuck wants to eat a carcass? Yep. That's why. So I periodically meet up with him. We'll go for lunch. And he's just such a. He's a very, very sweet man, but he is Bricktop. And he looks. And, you know, he's got that. Now you're gonna drink a what? That was the last time I saw him. I'm taking out for lunch, boy. Now, are you going to drink today? I said, I'm not drinking today. Went very wise, because that's where the fucking calories live, boy. And he pointed to the top of the wine bike, went, they fucking live in there. That's where the fucking calories live. And he's, like, well into his 80s, wears, like, these immaculate suits. Obviously, he's lived a phenomenal life. He's just done a run in EastEnders. He's phenomenal. But I just. I find him such a captivating performer. We've got the same surname.

[A]

Yeah. That's all you need, really.

[B]

So that feels like fate. And I just think having him play you to be portrayed in that way would be great. Oh, I'm going to do some fucking comedy now. Who wants it? Where the fuck are you going by?

[A]

I'm also like, that is a really tough a really tough, brave man. The bravest man. Because if I got an email saying, two comedians want to take you out for lunch, I'd be like, absolutely not. What's going on?

[B]

Yeah, you'd think it was hidden camera stuff. When you think.

[A]

I think something was up.

[B]

They're going to be two Oxbridge fops who are going to patronize me. It's going to end up all over Instagram. But no, he took a chance on two. Two young men and we've been friends ever since.

[A]

I love that. What is the most romantic film you've ever seen? You're a very romantic man, Matt Ford. You're steeped in romantic. If you ask me, I think I

[B]

was a bit of a softie. I mean, there's a number of options. I almost went for Beauty and the Beast.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

I think that's really romantic. And also, I just think, and I always agreed with my mum, he's better looking as the beast.

[A]

100%. Very disappointing.

[B]

the end, when he turns into the Prince, you're like, ugh, you look a knob. You're the sort of bloke I hate. You're like, oh, I bet he's into rugby.

[A]

He looks like he plays rugby.

[B]

It's that army man, these balls. Whereas the Beast, you're like, he's got a few hard edges. He's complex.

[A]

He's a footballer. He's a footballer. The Beast. You're right, he's a footballer. And the Prince plays rugby.

[B]

Even though, I mean, the Beast would be great at rugby. He's got, like, that, the big back for it.

[A]

But he's delicate.

[B]

And I love the line in Beauty and the Beast where he's trying to, like, apologize. And he's talking to Luminier and Cogsworth and Cogsworth says to him, oh, there's the usual things. Flowers, chocolates, promises you don't intend to keep. Even as a kid, I thought, that's such a funny line. But it's not that obviously tempted to say all of you, which is a phenomenal, beautiful, romantic film.

[A]

Thank you, Matt Ford.

[B]

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. I mean, such a great. Such a great story.

[A]

Thanks very much.

[B]

And I felt so proud watching that. I was like, that's great because it's brilliant. It's so good.

[A]

Thank you, man. I'm really grateful you watched it and

[B]

you just want them to get together. You're like, fucking get together. Like, it's just such a. So there has to be a sequel.

[A]

I'd like to do a sequel to

[B]

a sequel, but I'm gonna go for Ghost.

[A]

Oh, great. Wonderful.

[B]

I mean that. I've only seen it in the last couple of years and maybe because of what I've been through, you'd never seen it before. Never seen it before.

[A]

Oh, wow, okay. That's interesting.

[B]

God, I sobbed, sobbed, sobbed, sobbed. You just think, oh, man. You know, especially when you thought about, is there something else going on? And all that. Oh, God, the thought of not being around, you know, so that, that really. Ghost made me absolutely break down. That's a great soundtrack.

[A]

I haven't seen it in years. I loved it. I'm glad it holds up. How long have you been married?

[B]

I should know this. Oh, we got married not long before I got diagnosed, so. Since 2023. So it'll be three years. Three years this May.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We've been together since 2014.

[A]

Since 2014. What, 12 years? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

26 minus 14. So I carry the seven. Yeah, 12, yeah.

[A]

What is the best film you ever saw that you never want to see again?

[B]

Any of the Lord of the Rings films. They are like one watch films and that is it. I was like, yes. I sort of accept that they're good. I never ever, ever want or need to see them again. I cannot. They're so long. And you're like, I'm not really into fantasy. But I was like, I get that they're big epics and it's a big deal and everyone says, oh, the book's great. Never read it. I mean, I bought them on video once. I was like, I'm not even gonna watch him. What am I doing? It's wasting my pocket money on this. I was just. I remember thinking at the end of the third one, was that really worth it? All that? It was. I guess it was because there was. They were visually stunning and some amazing individual performances in them.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I'm like, man, I didn't need to see all that. I did not need to see all that.

[A]

I love you so much. That's all I could say in response to the answer. I. I feel very similarly. And I've watched them.

[B]

I cannot emotionally connect with fictional names. People need to be called David or Michael or Muhammad or whatever. Real names that you would actually use. Not Dardek and Zurdon. You know, I don't give a fuck about Zurdon or the Thark Nebula. I do. And I actually quite like space stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm just, oh, I can't. You know, when they're like, oh, the Ziplons were slaughtered. I give a fuck about the Zip I can't emotionally connect with that. And if I thought about it, it probably is an analogy for prefer some war that actually happened. But I'm like, oh, I can't be.

[A]

Just say, you with the Ziplons.

[B]

It means nothing to me. And the silly hair and all the thing, you know, I quite like. I'm a hypocrite because I love the X Files. But I would say that was like cool sci fi. That was like sexy sci fi.

[A]

You know what it is with Lord of the Rings and all of that, why? It's not for me. And I know it's. It's for other people. It's very. It's just sort of. Maybe it's like the same as rugby. It's just a load of muddy men. It's very. Just a load of muddy men hanging out for fucking hours.

[B]

Oh, man. That's exactly what it is. Imagine that on the. On the poster. Muddy men in that for fucking hours. The Daily Mail.

[A]

What is the best action film you've ever seen?

[B]

Terminator 2.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

It's such a good film. And the special effects still look amazing now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It's such a better film than the Terminator. It's mad, the difference in those two films, and I love them both, but Terminator 2 is a luxury film. It's so good. So it's a high concept anyway, and it's brilliantly delivered. He is so cool. And the poster was cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the soundtrack's cool. And like all the. All the sass in it, you know, Dick wad and like, Asta la Vista, baby. And all that. You're calling. What a dipshit. All that. All of it. It's just brilliant. And the. The liquid metal one is like the scariest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nemesis.

[A]

And there's a. There's a whole thing about how the T1000 is feminine, how Arnold Schwarzenegger is masculine and the T1000 is feminine because he's sort of brute force and the T1000 is his. It's masculine energy versus feminine energy or something like that. It's a nice thing to say about.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So would you. Would you have it off?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you.

[A]

Well, because could be anything.

[B]

Could morph into.

[A]

Could become. It could be a lovely. Could be a lovely lady and then could morph into, you know, an even lovelier lady. Yeah.

[B]

The Beast from Beauty and the Beast. Just like all your fantasies in one Terminator.

[A]

Of all the films in the world, if you had to. Which film do you think you could have made and why?

[B]

Obviously I'm not claiming that I could have made any of these films. I sort of know that I couldn't have.

[A]

But it's more like, what. What film do you think would like represent you, I guess, where you're like, yeah, this is the sort of thing that I would choose to make. Were I able to.

[B]

The Full Monty.

[A]

Yes. Matt Ford. Yes, that is correct.

[B]

Such a good film.

[A]

That's the correct answer for you. It's a wonderful film.

[B]

It's really funny. I love the setting of it. Sheffield, you know, post industrialization and all that. Five working class blokes are just like, we skin runemployed. We've got to do something. Let's show our willies off in a working men's club. It's just like the rationale. What's amazing about it is it actually becomes like an act of like economic, rational behavior. You're like, well, if you need money and you're going to make money just showing your willy off, you're going to have to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You are forced. Society is forcing you to do this. And it's so funny. Robert Carlisle was brilliant. So many good lines in it. There's so many bits of it. I remember the Tom Wilkinson character is like the foreman who's like earning a little bit more than them and that makes him like obviously really posh and pretentious to them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's the bit where the pressure is getting to me because his wife doesn't know he's lost his job. That's thing he's still putting his suit on and going to work. The first time you see that in a film, obviously other places have done that. Be like, oh my God, as a kid, oh, that's so sad because she's out there now on his credit card spending. It's the way he says the word spending. Oh, man, this is so bleak. And it's a really funny film. Really good set pieces in it and the soundtrack is phenomenal.

[A]

I was sort of analyzing it recently because we were working on something and it kept coming up as like a reference and sort of looking at the storytelling of it. And it is amazing because you really, really care and love these characters. And then Hugo, his character is just guy with big dick and it totally works. You're as invested in him as. You know what I mean? Like, it's very simply done that you care about all these people and his storyline is he has a big dick.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

The lunchbox has Landed. And then there's that weird homoerotic subplot that doesn't really kind of go anywhere between him and the ginger guy. Yeah, Just sort of there a little bit. Kind of suggested that. And then it doesn't really go anywhere. But I just think it's like the perfect British comedy film. The Full Monty. It's like, warm without being too. Without compromising on, like, the laughs and the set pieces.

[A]

Hopeful without being unrealistic.

[B]

And it's great, powerful economic message. You know, in the sort of post Thatcherite economic landscape. You've got to get your knob out.

[A]

You've got to. What is the film you have pretended to like to impress people? Matt Ford, what have you pretended to like?

[B]

Do you know what I would say on the whole? I'm someone who will just say if I don't like something, and I've got some opinions on film that people think I'm the affectations because they're so counter to other people's opinion that it's basically sacrilege that people say, are you saying that for attention? I truly believe it. But the closest film that I've come to pretending that I liked is Citizen Kane. Citizen Kane. I remember, like, buying it on video. That was like, this great film ever made. But it was like, 17. I was like, here we go. About to watch the greatest film ever made. I was like, oh, God. Oh, God. I don't understand why this is the greatest film ever made. Obviously later on I'm like, it must have been pioneered in, you know, some way. And it's like, awesome Wells, you know, okay. But I just thought, this is crap. So at least I can say I've watched it. So I kind of. I say, oh, yeah, I've seen it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But I don't ever really dare say I actually thought it was rubbish.

[A]

Bore ring.

[B]

I do not get it.

[A]

Because people will go, you've never watched it again since?

[B]

No. And that's pretty long from memory.

[A]

It's good. It is good. But I hear you.

[B]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I realized, and you're like, the films are your passion. So this is sacrilege.

[A]

It's not sacrilege. It's not. I promise you. There's. There's lots of classic films that I think are so boring.

[B]

And they were just like. I mean, I didn't think he Ledger was good as the Joker. I just didn't. And. And people. Yeah, people. That's the one. That's when people say, you're making it up. I'm like, I really didn't think it was good. I just didn't. This is. I can't. I hate it when it comes up in the pub because I'm like, I'm gonna get into trouble here. But people go, he thought Heath Ledger was rubbish. I'm like, no, I liked him in A Knight's Tale. I just buy him as the Joker.

[A]

I'm sorry, what is the film you've never seen that? You think it's mad. You've never seen it.

[B]

Apocalypse Now.

[A]

That is mad. What is the film you love that you don't expect anyone else to like?

[B]

I sort of alluded to this earlier. I absolutely, unironically love Hallmark Christmas films. I absolutely love them.

[A]

Great.

[B]

So I make a real effort with Christmas because it goes by so quick, and I hate taking the decorations down. And I'm still in a sort of post Christmas funk, really. I just think, oh, the party's over. It's so sad taking it all down. And so I listen to the music every day. I get the tree up mid November, and I'm just. I listen to Christmas music every day. I try and watch a Christmas film every day. I'm like, you need to, because it would just pass you by.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the risk is, obviously you just watch the same films every year. I always watch them up at Christmas carol. Miracle on 34th Street, Scrooged, Home Alone and Home Alone 2. Christmas of the Crank. I said, I need to actually start watching new Christmas films. And obviously the last few years, actually quite a lot of new ones been really good. Tinseltown this year was great with Kiefer Sutherland and Danny Dyer, but I really loved Mary Little Xmas with Alicia Silverstone this year and ironically loved it. I love those Netflix Y Hall marquee, A Christmas Wish, A Christmas Prince, A Castle for Christmas, all that kind of schmaltzy. Yeah. But there's no real jeopardy involved. They're inevitably gonna get together. At no point do you think that the. You know, the will. They won't. They Is not gonna pay off. I love them. And Alicia Silverston was brilliant in it.

[A]

She's great.

[B]

But then when you tell people this, that. Oh, no, you just. These films are. You don't understand, man. You don't understand how good these films are. I think you can be too cynical sometimes.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

Still, like, still good storytelling.

[A]

I completely agree.

[B]

That makes you feel nice. And it's like, it's all part of the ambience of Christmas. I don't want Jeopardy at Christmas. I Want security?

[A]

You should write songs.

[B]

Do you think?

[A]

I do, actually.

[B]

What genre?

[A]

Drill Love. Love. Love. Drill.

[B]

Drill.

[A]

Love songs. What is the film you would show a lover as a test to see if you should be together. What film had you shown your wife? And she had gone, I don't get it. That you'd be like, well, this is going nowhere.

[B]

Then the Snowman, I think it. Oh, man, I cry every time. I cry every time. The ending piano. The nature of the animation, that sort of, like, sketchy stuff that moves. I think the Snowman is. Is it the best film ever made. And the fact that you would make a Christmas film for kids. There's a cartoon where the snowman dies at the end and then that's it. I think it's a phenomenal way to, like, teach people about stuff. And the music is. Oh, man. The party scene and then the. Just the haunting piano at the end. And then, you know, it's obviously like a version of Britain that, you know, the rolling hills and the snow and the. Oh, man. Pure atmosphere. So if people didn't like the Snowman, we actually went to see the play of the Snowman. I mean, it's cracks, it's for the music, really, but it's just a guy in a fluffy suit and it's really hard to recreate.

[A]

How'd they do flying? Did they fly?

[B]

Yeah, they're on, like, I guess, trapeze, whatever. They're on some sort of. How long?

[A]

They make it like the short film. How long? The play.

[B]

Yeah, they stretch it out a little bit. There's a bit of filler in there. It doesn't really work as a play. It's a nice thing to go and see, but just good to hear the music live.

[A]

That's pretty great. Great answer. I'm glad your wife likes it. What is the film that made you the most uncomfortable Hostel?

[B]

Yeah, that film.

[A]

Horrid.

[B]

I had tr. It still affects me now. And it come out, what, about 20 years ago, we were going to see it at the cinema. I think it was up in Warrington, in the northwest of England. Went to see it with a colleague. We came out, we're like, what have we done that for? That was horrendous. And I was traumatized for ages. I can't get this. The other one was Requiem for a Dream. I watched Requiem for a Dream.

[A]

Love that.

[B]

New Year's Eve. What, sorry, no, New Year's Day.

[A]

Oh, worse.

[B]

I was around at John Richardson's house when he lived in Swindon. We've gone to his local Pub. And I was rifling through his DVDs because I've never seen this. He was like, we are not watching that. I said, come on. He's like, you pop that on. I'm going in the other room. And I watched it alone in his home. He let me put it on. He just went and sat in the spare room for two hours while I watched it. The film ended. I was like, that's the most appalling film in terms of, like, its emotional impact on me. Harrowed. So that and Hostel just. You just worry about why you would make a film like that. Like, what purpose does it serve? I get that. The problem is I went through a phase. Maybe everyone goes through this phase in their 20s, where if someone said, this is the scariest film ever made, I had to see it and I would get a sense that I'd overcome something I'd endured. The hottest curry ever cooked.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I watched the Human Centipede. I thought, why on earth have you made that film? Why on earth have I sought it out as, like, a test of my character that I can enjoy this? Oh, man. I just avoid films like that now. I don't need to prove myself to myself by doing that.

[A]

I think we know you're a tough guy. Yeah. Hostel is a horror. It's hard. I love Wrecking For A Dream, but Hostel is horrid. It is horrid. I don't know what it's for.

[B]

Oh, just thinking of Reckoning For A Dream, it literally made me shiver. I wasn't right for weeks. Yeah, well, I'm going to a birthday party and I was like, I saw Rec Room For A Dream last week. I'm still not right.

[A]

And were they like, I'm sorry, man. We get it. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Someone told a brother was like, I did exactly the same thing. Talking about a month ago for it. And that. That made me feel a lot better.

[A]

I think the happy ending is. My hot take on Reckon For A Dream is that it's actually. Everything's going to be all right, because this is. What we're seeing is rock bottom. He's going to get out of prison. He's going to go cold turkey in prison. He's going to be all right. He's going to start his new life.

[B]

Excellent.

[A]

Geezer has lost his arm. Big spoilers. He's going to go and rescue Jennifer Connelly and he's going to be like, enough's enough. I've lost an arm. Let's. Let's get ourselves together. And the mum is In a dream state. In a coma where she's quite happy. So really, it's a shotgun.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I'm gonna watch it again. Get the family around.

[A]

If you could show a child one film, what would it be? Requiem for a Dream or Hostel. No, what would your. What would it be?

[B]

Mary Poppins.

[A]

Fuck, yeah.

[B]

So good.

[A]

It's so good.

[B]

Such a magical film.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

And the songs are great. I actually don't think Dick Van Dyke's accent's that bad. For years, that has plagued him. He's pretty decent.

[A]

Well, he's very charming. It doesn't. I don't think. I sort of think. I sort of think accents don't matter. Like, he's so charming.

[B]

Yeah. Why people hung up on that. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love all the. At the time. Didn't realize that the whole, like, you know, the suffragette element to it. I think there's some really funny parts of it. The laughing guy bouncing off the ceiling, just. There's something about those sorts of films where obviously, like, Mary. The Mary Poppins thing is mad, you know, what sort of nanny who lives in the sky. There's a kind of Santa element to it, I guess, isn't there, that this nice person's going to come and give you the things that you need. You write them a letter and it somehow works its way up to them. There's like, the magical thinking element of it, which is nice. Going on, adventures. Being able to draw a picture on the street and jump into it through the pavement. I love it. I love it. And I love Feed the Birds.

[A]

I also love the fact that Mary and Bert clearly used to have sex and he's still got a thing for her. And she's like, you know, the wind changed, I left. Cheeky, Bert. Yeah.

[B]

But you're like, they're so good for each other.

[A]

You're, like, so good for each other.

[B]

Obviously, like Poppins. Bert's never going to do better than Poppins. Like, you can't.

[A]

She's just someone can. She's the best one.

[B]

No, she is. Yeah. But also, I think you're not going to find someone like Bert.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You find other guys. But this guy is really cool. He's really good at street art.

[A]

He's great with kids.

[B]

Great with kids. Can sing. He can tap dance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On the rooftops of London, no less.

[A]

He's also very emotionally intuitive. He has a lovely chat with Mr. Banks by the fireplace. He really gets it. Yeah.

[B]

And he's. He's got a trade, you know. He's a grafter. You put food on the table. You've got work ethic, you know, slouch.

[A]

He's got a lot of friends. He's a popular guy.

[B]

He knows everyone everywhere.

[A]

And he's a musician, man.

[B]

And not in a pretentious way. No, you're not a drip. He's a man's man. He's an alpha dog. But he can also tap dance.

[A]

He can tap? Yeah. Okay. Matt Ford, I don't want this to end.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

This has been really so wonderful. But first, having heard your answers, I've decided one thing. I'm gonna let you live for now. But while you're here again, what DVD would you leave in your will were you to ever die again, to your loved ones? Probably your wife?

[B]

Buried, starring Ryan Reynolds. Because then people would think, fuck, do we bury him alive? Oh, God. And the thought of them being exhumed or it would be too late. I'll be quite cool to be exhumed, you know, to be inspected in the future.

[A]

Yeah, I. I feel like that's really traumatic for your wife, but it's a lovely idea.

[B]

But then she'd go, oh, him. That's what he was like. What a laugh. I assumed him. And we'll laugh about this one day.

[A]

Well, say, Matt Ford, I'm so happy you are. Well, thank you for sharing your story with us. Quite incredible. I think you're bloody brilliant. I think you're an amazing comedian and a writer, amazing at everything you do. And I love you and I love hanging out with you and I Wish I had 25 more film questions, but I've run out of them. Is there anything you would like to tell people to watch or listen to? Are you on tour? What do they need to do to see more Matt Ford or hear more Matt Ford?

[B]

Oh, yeah, I'm on tour. I'm on tour across the UK until the end of June. You can go to mattford.com tickets to my show.

[A]

What's it called, your show?

[B]

Defying Calamity. The poster's like the wicked poster.

[A]

Great.

[B]

So it's lots of impressions and a bit of personal stuff about, you know, being a brave survivor.

[A]

What's your current favorite impression of your own that you love doing?

[B]

I love doing Trump. I mean, the thing is, everyone does them now. It's sort of become like Elvis, where people are doing impressions of the impressions. Yeah, but he's so satisfying and he's aged, so it's all this stuff that he's got deeper now and it's the insecurity. You can see it. And there's a wistfulness that's. He will do this thing now where when he came to the state visit to the uk, he was sort of. He's got like a wistful element. He has whimsical little branches that goes to go. It's a great country. They got Shakespeare and Dickens. Probably the greatest writers. The greatest writers that have ever lived, probably ever will. Probably ever will. Probably ever will. And it's almost like he's going. Makes you think, when you think about it, never be as good as Shakespeare. There's some weird little moments where he catches himself. It's obviously so much of it is stream of consciousness, that for comedy, taking the politics out of it. He's just such a funny person to do.

[A]

I remember reading you, maybe it's an interview with you or an essay you wrote, but it was a while ago, but it was sort of. I would like to ask you an updated version of it, which is that when you're writing kind of political stuff and state of the world stuff, given how insane everything is every day, are you essentially doing new material every night based on a lot? Yeah, right, yeah.

[B]

And that obviously, as comedians, a bit of a nightmare.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the show's never finished. But then I think, oh, well, you know, it's not the worst thing. And there is something about. I think if you do a joke about something that's happened that day, people like, oh, my God. Yeah, this is like mad. This is like sorcery. And then it makes the whole show feel really fresh.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the danger with it is it dates quite quick. But then I just think, oh, man, again, I'm not working on a coal mine. It's not the biggest burden. Oh, I must update my topical material. Oh, what a hard life. Get on with it. Moan, you know, And I just think it's fun. It's really fun that people would come and watch you and think, I wonder what he's going to say about Keir Starmer or Nigel Farage or Trump or what's going on. I hope he's got a joke about that. You think that's a really nice thing to imagine. And I hope they come with that.

[A]

Yeah, I would be.

[B]

I think that's a really nice thing to think about. But, you know, I've thought about this a lot, actually, with. With you, is that I think the risk in life is that you go, I am a comedian and therefore I exist within these parameters and I must only do 20 minutes of comedy and do an Edinburgh show, and that is the only way in which I will get somewhere. And you never believed that you were making films, you were coming up with stories. You were like, it's not just about doing Edinburgh. Like, there are other ways to be. And no one's ever gonna say, oh, you know that guy that's doing 20 minutes in Stoke on a Friday, maybe we should put him in a film. Like, you've got to do this. And then people go, oh, you're the film guy. You have to be so resourceful as a comedian and as any sort of creative. When you have to sort of create your own world, that's just people then go, oh, you're a comedian also makes films.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or shows or whatever. Because you think, well, how else are you going to make this happen? How else are you going to kind of. It's such an inspiration, what you've done, because it just makes you think, actually, if I want to do a particular thing with my life and career, I am going to have to make some moves. It's not just going to happen.

[A]

Yeah, you have to make the things you want to make. Yeah, I realized that. Well, I realized early because. Because it took me a while. Well, I realized that as an actor, before I had done much, all I was getting auditions for were terrorists. Do you know that? So people would see my headshot and go, terrorists. So I was constantly being offered terrorists. And.

[B]

Because you look Irish.

[A]

Yeah. And I thought, I don't want to. I don't want to play terror. And. And I found it, Matt. And I kept being sort of frustrated, like, why do I keep getting. And then I thought, well, they don't know anything about. Why would they. They're just basing it off my face. Fair enough. They don't know me. They don't know all the things inside that I want to express all this shit.

[B]

It's like, oh, he's a handsome terrorist. You have to make your own terrorist rom com.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good idea. But, yeah, I think that. I think people have this idea of, like, they'll discover me and they'll. And they'll find what I'm capable of. No one's thinking, looking at a person's face and going, I think that they're capable of this many things. It's like, you just got to make everything yourself.

[B]

Yeah. And that's not unfair either. Like, people. The world is chaos. Everyone's just trying to sort of keep their head above water in whatever industry they're working in. They've got all different pressures on them. There's not like a group of really powerful people that are like, let's deliberately thwart the ambitions of these comedians. Just like, you've got to go to them, you've got to show them what you can do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not just going to happen in life. You do need to be bold and you need to take risks and be prepared to fail. But obviously all that stuff is true and you know, talent and that's what's so amazing about you, is you so talented and you've, you, you have, you've achieved the things that your talent demands. And it's true, but it's true.

[A]

It is.

[B]

You go, you are.

[A]

I've been very lucky. I've been very lucky and I've worked with really amazing people that, that, that make it all better.

[B]

But you are also talented and hard working, resourceful and creative. All those things of. And you look like a really fit terrorist. I think everything you, I think when you're watching the officer image and poops, you're like, is he going to blow her up at some point? Like, where's this going?

[A]

God bless you, Matt Ford. It's very hard to pay your compliment because you keep turning on me. So we're going to have to wrap this up. God bless you and all who sail in you. Cheers, Brett, I think you're wonderful. Happy Christmas and welcome back. Good day to you, sir.

[B]

Cheers, mate.

[A]

So that was episode 384. Head over to the patreon at patreon.com forward slash. Brett Goldstein. For the extra minutes of chat secrets and video with Mr. Matt Ford, go to Apple podcast, give us a five star rating. But right about the film that means the most to you and wise. Love it. To reading really helps numbers. We really appreciate it. Watch all of you on Apple TV and also watch shrinking on Apple tv. Thank you so much to Matt for his time. Thanks to Scrubbers Pip and Distraction Pieces Network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics and Lisa Lydon for the photography. Come join me in a couple of weeks for another amazing episode with a brilliant, incredible guest. Thank you very much for listening. I hope you're all well. That is it for now. In the meantime, have a lovely week and please now more than ever be excellent to each other.

[B]

Quick interruption, worth hearing. If you love sports, TikTok is for you. Game highlights, expert breakdowns and fan reactions. Just the moments that matter. Download TikTok now.