Noah Hawley (Fargo / Alien: Earth / Legion) • #395

Summary

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Films To Be Buried With #395: Noah Hawley (Fargo / Alien: Earth / Legion)

Release Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Brett Goldstein
Guest: Noah Hawley (Writer, Director, Showrunner – Fargo, Alien: Earth, Legion)

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Episode Overview

This episode features acclaimed showrunner and writer Noah Hawley, known for his genre-bending work on series like Fargo, Legion, and Alien: Earth. Brett and Noah dive into the films that shaped Noah’s life and art, death and creativity, adaptation versus originality, and the visceral power of cinema. Their conversation unfolds with Hawley’s trademark blend of humor, depth, and practical wisdom about storytelling on both page and screen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Noah’s Entry and Recent Experiences

• Opening Anecdote about Health:
  No small talk: Noah opens by recounting a recent minor surgery on his ear ("They cut a small hole in my eardrum and sucked out a lot of fluid"), setting the tone with dry wit about aging and resilience.
  • “In case you're wondering what your 50s are gonna be like, Brett.” (03:33)
  • Describes the experience as "one of the most stressful things I encountered," likening it to "pulling your brain out of your head." (03:58)

Career Philosophy: Adaptation vs. Originality

• Making Classics His Own:
  Brett highlights that Noah consistently adapts existing iconic works—Fargo, Alien, Legion—and asks why. Noah explains it’s partly market-driven, but he sees no difference between his adaptations and originals.
  • “I started as a novelist. I have no problem as an original storyteller. For me, I don't differentiate between the adaptations.” (06:13)
• Approach to Adaptation:
  Noah digs into his process with Fargo:
  • “They said, we're thinking about doing Fargo as a show, but... can you do it without Marge?” (06:34)
  • “You're literally just asking, can you make me a Coen Brothers movie?...what is Fargo? What is a Coen Brothers movie?...really kind of a state of mind.” (06:51–07:43)
  • Highlights the necessity of capturing authenticity before introducing new elements in a franchise.

Upcoming Projects & Working Method

• Far Cry Adaptation:
  Noah’s next directing project is a Far Cry anthology series for FX, to shoot in London and the Canary Islands, focused on people becoming “uncivilized” to survive (05:14–05:45).
• Simultaneous Shows:
  Alien: Earth Season 2 begins production in June, Far Cry in September, with some production overlap and logistical piggybacking (11:59–12:23).
• Delegation as a Showrunner:
  Noah emphasizes collaboration, trusting his team, and the “fun of the team sport” versus solo writing (13:10–13:39).

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The Films That Shaped Noah Hawley

Films & Life

First Movie Memory

• 2001: A Space Odyssey (19:02–21:48)
  • Saw it in theaters at seven, profoundly affected by the visuals and enigmatic storytelling.
  • “Kubrick often talked about how people don't respond to a story because of the think of it, they respond because of the feel of it…you're having an emotional experience. Clearly, there's a lot of feeling attached to this. I'm not sure what it means.” (19:13–20:00)

Most Scared

• The Exorcist (TV at age 9), Paranormal Activity (with his daughter)
  • The Exorcist “really got me...the supernatural stuff is the horror for me.” (22:53)
  • His daughter finally got scared by Paranormal Activity’s realism, not by stylized efforts (22:54–23:30).
  • Brett notes, “The genius of that film is...it says, just keep looking at this. It's very smart.” (23:50)

Saddest/Cry Movie

• Dead Man’s Curve (teen melodrama), Hail Mary
  • “That was like a four cry movie...loyalty and friendship...all the boy cry spots.” (27:46)
  • “I just remember like, what could I have been like 12? And I just remember like, you know, sobbing over this movie.” (28:20)

Comfort/Favorite Watches

• Grand Budapest Hotel
  • “Kind of a perfect film in the...sheer joy of it...it's giving me that emotional experience over again.” (39:20)
• Zodiac
  • Rewatches annually: “There's a moment in Zodiac every time I watch it where I think they're going to solve it...it's a testament to the filmmaking.” (40:24)

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Thoughtful Riffs on Filmmaking

Authenticity and Restraint

• With Alien: Earth, Noah discusses the delicate balancing act of working with TV budgets to achieve cinematic quality:
  • “The show that you're asking for and the show that you say you can afford, those are not the same show...The constraints that are put on us as storytellers are not a negative. You have to innovate within those.” (26:05–27:15)
  • Comparisons with Robert Downey Jr.'s Avengers budget: “He was like, get out of my face.” (27:41)

Working with Actors

• Anecdote on Juno Temple adopting (and maintaining) the Minnesota accent for Fargo:
  • “She had to come and stay in the Minnesota accent, like five days a week. If she called me on a Sunday and she was British again, it would be confusing.” (10:38)

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Reflections on Death & Legacy

Death and Heaven

• How Would You Die?:
  • “I died like Pete Seeger, laying in a bed with my family around me, singing, at home.” (14:20)
• Fear of Death:
  • Grew up with a “find the cloud in every silver lining” mindset, but moved past the fear: “I don't worry about it too much...I feel like I'm happy with who I am and how I've lived.” (14:54)
• Afterlife Belief:
  • Not optimistic about consciousness surviving death, but aspires for one’s work and influence to outlive them.
    • “On a good day, I think if you've done it right, then the work that you've done outlives you...that doesn't necessarily last for a thousand years, but you know, you might get a couple hundred if you made a real impact.” (16:58–17:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Storytelling:

  • “I'm just literally making it up as I go along to try to get a feeling out of the audience. And if it works, don't ask questions.” (05:10)

• On Adaptation/Authenticity:

  • “Once you establish the credibility of the authenticity, then you can start to do new things and different things, and you already have their buy in.” (08:17)

• On Work Ethic and Mortality:

  • “Colossal productivity is...some sense of time, some sense that this is a finite window.” (15:58)

• On What’s Timeless:

  • “It's getting harder and harder to make stuff that's timeless. And what I love is when people come and they're like, you know, every year I watch a Fargo or all the Fargos...that’s the joy for me.” (46:10)

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Rapid-Fire Movie Questions

| Question | Answer | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------|--------------------| | First movie memory | 2001: A Space Odyssey | 19:02 | | Scariest film | The Exorcist, Paranormal Activity | 22:19–23:30 | | Film that made him cry | Dead Man's Curve, Hail Mary | 27:46–28:20 | | Unheralded favorite | Killing Them Softly, Battleship | 28:51–29:56 | | Once-loved, now disappointing | The Exorcist (rewatched as an adult) | 30:36–31:28 | | Most meaningful viewing experience | The Matrix | 31:39–33:49 | | Film to show “what is cinema” | There Will Be Blood | 36:55–38:27 | | Film watched most | Grand Budapest Hotel, Zodiac, Ice Age (for kids)| 39:04–40:42 | | Funniest film | The In-Laws, The Death of Stalin | 41:46–43:22 | | Sexiest film | Mulholland Drive | 35:32–36:33 |

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Closing—The Ultimate Film to Take to the Afterlife

• Noah declines to choose a film, instead requesting:
  • The original radio recording of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
  • “I want to make that movie in my head every night.” (44:57)
  • Brett: “You wanted to make stuff in heaven. This is a perfect answer.” (46:01)

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Final Thoughts & What’s Next

• Upcoming Work:
  • Noah working on Alien: Earth Season 2, Far Cry anthology for FX, and possibly more Fargo. No dates yet due to extensive post-production.
• On Rewatches and Timelessness:
  • Noah’s greatest satisfaction is when people rewatch his work and discover new things each time.

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Standout Quotes with Timestamps

• On Authenticity and Sandbox Storytelling:
  • “You literally just asking, can you make me a Coen Brothers movie? ...what is Fargo?...it's a state of mind...” — Noah Hawley (06:51–07:43)
• On Fear in Film:
  • “And now my imagination is fully engaged with it...it's really the only medium that…engages our imagination to that extent while we're watching.” — Noah Hawley (24:22)
• On the Power of Cinema:
  • “The constraints that are put on us as storytellers are not a negative, right? You have to innovate within those.” — Noah Hawley (27:15)

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Summary prepared by Films To Be Buried With – Engaging film lovers, storytellers, and the merely mortal, one episode at a time.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

It's only Films to be Buried with. Hello and welcome to Films to Be Buried With. My name is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian, an actor, a writer, a director, an ultimate Frisbee, and I love films. As Richard Feynman once said, I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers can't be questioned. Watch any David Lynch? Every week I invite a special guest over. I tell them they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life through the films that meant the most to them. Previous guests include Barry Jenkins, Kevin Smith, Sharon Stone, and even Klebstambles. But this week we have the writer, director, producer and showrunner. It's Mr. Noah Hawley. My new film, Office Romance that I made with Jennifer Lopez, written by myself and Joe Kelly, will be streaming on Netflix June 5th. You don't want to miss this one. All of Shrinking Season Free 1, 2, 3 is available to watch on Apple TV. And you can still watch my film all of you, which are made with Will Bridges and Imogen poots on Apple TV. Head over to the [e-mail] BrettGoldstein where you get extra time with Noah. We talk beginnings. We talk secrets. You get the whole episode uncut ad free and as a video. Check it out [e-mail] BrettGoldstein Noah Hawley. You might know him as the creator of Fargo, Alien Earth and Legion, and for his work as a novelist and filmmaker. Alien Earth Season two is coming soon. You'll be able to find it on Hulu. And this is my first time meeting Noah. We recorded this over zoom the other week. He's a fascinating man. We had a really great time. I really think you're going to love this one. So that's it for now. I very much hope you enjoy episode 395 of Films to be Buried With. Hello and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It is I, Brett Goldstein, and I'm joined today by by a writer, a producer, a creator, a director, an award winner, a Fargoer, a legionnaire, a Lucy in the Skyer, a novelist, an alibi, an alien Earther, and one of the great showrunner creators in the history of television. I can't believe he's here. Is he here? He really is. He's right in front of me. Please welcome to the show. It's the brilliant. It's Mr. Noah Hawley.

[C]

Present. I am accounted for.

[B]

How are you, Noah?

[C]

I'm good. I'm good. I did a thing yesterday morning where I went in and they cut a small hole in my eardrum.

[B]

What?

[C]

And they sucked out a lot of fluid. So. In case you're wondering what your 50s are gonna be like, Brett, that's what I can promise you. But I'm good. I'm good. Now I can actually hear you out of both ears.

[B]

You feel great.

[C]

I do. It was a relief. I don't know why it wanted to be in there, but it didn't wanna leave. And so I had to take aggressive measures.

[B]

That actually sounds quite nice.

[C]

It's nice on the backside. The actual activity of it was one of the most stressful things I encountered.

[B]

Oh no.

[C]

It just feels like they're pulling your brain out of your head.

[B]

But.

[C]

And I need my brain for. Yeah, your brain is obvious reasons.

[B]

Many things I want to talk to you about. I suppose you're most famous for your TV work, but you've also made a film that fits into one of my favorite genres of film. One of my favorite genres is Astronauts Coming Home Being Weird.

[C]

Interesting. Yeah.

[B]

And you've made one of the all time great Astronauts Coming home films.

[C]

Well, I appreciate that my magic realism astronaut movie.

[B]

I love it.

[C]

That the world was clamoring for was.

[B]

And I was very happy with it.

[C]

I appreciate that. It was. It was very fun. I was watching, you know, because I'm prepping to. To direct again. And I was looking with the. I'm going to use the same dp and we were looking back at some shots and we, you know, we did the stuff which had some really crazy lens focus stuff of really trying to center the focus. It's like remind Me. How. How we did that again. And she's like, well, you had us put Vaseline on the lens. I was like, oh, right, I did. I did. I had us put Vaseline on the lens. So that was the fun of making things for me, is I didn't go to film school for any of it. I don't know how to do any of it. I'm just literally making it up as I go along to try to get a feeling out of the audience. And if it works, don't ask questions.

[B]

What are you gearing up to direct?

[C]

Well, so we're doing an adaptation of this game called Far Cry.

[B]

Oh, great.

[C]

It's for fx. It's a limited. Well, it's an anthology, because the game is an anthology. So this will be a standalone story of the game is basically, you put people in a situation in which they have to become uncivilized in order to. In order to succeed. And so we have this. This great sort of like, you know, it's an adventure action kind of show. And so I'll shoot that in London and the Canary Islands in the. In the fall.

[B]

So I'm sure you've been asked this a lot, so forgive me, but most of the stuff you've done is taking something that is a fucking classic that most people shouldn't touch, and then you go and you take the concept of it or the feel of it, and then you turn it into some other masterpiece. And I wonder, because that's what they all have in common, I suppose. So what is the thing in your head that makes you go, I want to do that? Like, why Fargo? Why Alien Earth? Why Legion?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. It's interesting on some level that that's. I mean, just on a basic level, what the market wants. Right. You know, and. And, you know, I started as a novelist. I've written six books. I have no problem as an original storyteller. For me, I don't differentiate between the adaptations.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so, I mean, what was really interesting about Fargo and how it kind of started me on that journey is that that FX came to me and they said, we're thinking about doing Fargo as a show, but we wonder if you can do it without Marge, because, of course, you're not going to top Frances McDormand.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I thought, well, that's a really weird thing to ask because everyone else is dead. Jerry's in jail. We're not remaking it. So what are we doing? You're literally just asking, can you make me a Coen Brothers movie. And I thought, well, that's a. No one's ever asked anyone to do that before, really. And it's such an interesting idea. And so, you know, I had to really figure out, well, what is Fargo? What is a Coen Brothers movie? And so much of it is on the page, but it's also in the execution, right? It's Javier Bardem's haircut, right? No one else would have given him that haircut. And, you know, it's that tension between comedy and horror and all of it. So part of it is. I mean, you know, there's a word that seems crass, which is brand, but really what brand is, is. Is the identity of a thing, right? So. So when I went in to talk to them about Fargo, I said, why is the movie called Fargo? It takes place in Minnesota, and Fargo is in North Dakota. Except that the word Fargo is evocative of this kind of Siberia, you know, Northern sib, Like, you know, salad bars and. And the like. And. But now it's also a type of story, right? A type of sort of true crime that isn't true story. And I thought, well, so then it's really kind of a state of mind. And then how do we. How do we capture that state of mind for an audience so that they understand the authenticity? Like, we got it right. And it's why, like, on Alien Earth, we start in the first hour on a ship that looks very much like the ship from the first episode.

[B]

It's really impressive.

[C]

They woke up, they're having breakfast, they're talking over each other. You know, it's to show the audience, oh, he gets it. He knows what this is, what this tone of voice is and what this flavor is. And then once you establish the credibility of the authenticity, then you can start to do new things and different things, and you already have their buy in.

[B]

So that's fucking smart. So it is like you get to play in the sandbox, as they say, because that beginning of Alien Earth is so good. And it is like, ah, we're in Alien. Like, it feels. You feel kind of safe. Like, great.

[C]

Yeah. And we had to. I mean, you know, for me, it's like the stakes of these scenes, you know, I try never to focus on the stakes. So, all right, we're introducing everyone, and we got to get all this exposition in. I mean, what matters more, I think, is the feel of it. And, you know, so getting the cast together, going in on a Saturday, and rehearsing the logistics of these things, but also just getting Them comfortable, you know, just bullshitting and being in that space and smoking while they're eating and, you know, all the stuff that feels authentic to the movie. And just then in the edit, you got to let it breathe in a way that feels like a 1979 movie.

[B]

You know, it's great. When you first did Fargo, was it always in your head that it would be an anthology in different time. Time zones?

[C]

And it was. You know, I said, you can't really do it as a TV show because the movie ends with the case is over. It's the weirdest thing she'll ever see. Three months, she's gonna have the baby. Husband got the 3 cent stamp. You know, tomorrow's a normal day. And that's what makes the movie so profound. If she wakes up tomorrow and it's another crazy Coen Brothers case, you can't say it's a true story anymore. Right. And it kind of loses that. And, you know, to FX's credit, they never said to me, after the success of the first year, maybe we could do a second season with that cast. Right. Which most people would have done just given that. You know, they don't usually say, hey, let's reinvent it after we've had a huge success. But that's why it's been great to work over there all this time.

[B]

That's very cool. And you worked with Juno Temple.

[C]

I did.

[B]

I've heard of her.

[C]

You've heard of her?

[B]

She is wonderful. You did her proud. Well, she did you proud. You did each other proud.

[C]

You know, we had a little bit of a nail biter there at the end, you know, right when we were starting, because, of course, you guys were rapping that third season.

[B]

And I remember going up to it,

[C]

but, you know, she had to come and stay in the Minnesota accent, like five days a week. And then if she called me on a Sunday and she was British again, it would be confusing. But no, she felt a lot of responsibility stepping into that role and the scale of it. And, you know, she gave it her all. She was great.

[B]

Yeah. I remember her practicing the accent when we were doing Letter, and I was like, fucking hell. Oh, how'd you do this?

[C]

I know, I know.

[B]

Yeah. So is there going to be more Fargo, or is that. Or you haven't seen it?

[C]

Yeah, I'm looking at doing one. You know, I'm a little scheduled out for the next couple of years, but I do have a thought. And, you know, I went into the fifth season thinking that would be it. And then I got about halfway through, and I thought, who am I kidding? It's if I can do more. Like, if I have an idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, what other show can you do that is both crime and violence and comedy and mystical and, you know, it's about decency versus cynicism, and, you know, we haven't mastered that yet. Decency's not winning yet. So, you know, it feels like as long as there's a story to tell and they'll let me tell it. Yeah, I'll come back. So. But I don't have anything official yet.

[B]

It's just a thought, but there'll be more Alien Earth.

[C]

Yes. That's the thing about my year that I buried the lead, which is, you know, in June, we start shooting alien Earth Season 2, and in September, I start shooting Far Cry. So they're going to overlap. Yeah. I decided that I wasn't working hard enough.

[B]

Yeah. So I know that feeling.

[C]

Did you?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are they filming on the same lot? Can you walk between the two or you have to go to different countries?

[C]

No, I will be able to. I mean, we're sort of. As I said, it's London and the Canary Islands, and we're kind of going back and forth between on the shows. So. Yeah, you know, I'm trying to build it out in such a way that, you know, I'm getting some cost savings from piggybacking them and, you know, but at the end of the. You know, at the end of the day, it's. It's just two big swings. You know, it's like facing two different pitchers at the same time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So.

[B]

And are you. I don't know how to ask this question. Are you good at delegating or do you have to see everything? And so.

[C]

No, I am. I am. You know, my job is as a showrunner is already six jobs. Right. And, you know, and what I say to people as I bring them in is like, I don't want to do your job. I don't want to be the production designer. I don't want to be the costume designer. You know, I want to have a collaboration in which we build the world out, and then you decide what they wear from day to day, or you. You know, it only works best that. That way. And it's the fun of the team sport. I mean, I could be a novelist and sit in a room if I wanted to be a loner, but if I want to be on a team, you got to share. Right. That's the fun of it, is you're Great at your job, and I'm good at my job. And I love watching people, you know, I love seeing them realize that you want their most creative thoughts.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When did you last write a novel? Was that before or the TV and film?

[C]

I had one that came out in 22 called Anthem.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So that was the last one that I did. And, you know, it's not the last one that I will write, but I ran out of hands to type, so I got to take a break.

[B]

No, I've forgotten to tell you something. Yeah. And I should have said it earlier. Actually, I'll say it, but I don't know how you'll feel about it. You're dead. You've died. Okay. You're dead. Dead.

[C]

Yeah, Dead. Okay.

[B]

How did you die?

[C]

I died like Pete Seeger, laying in a bed with my family around me, singing, at home.

[B]

You were singing. They were singing.

[C]

No, they were singing. You know, you're at home and you're surrounded by your family, and they. And they're singing you out the door. They're wishing you out the door. You know, that, to me, feels like the best version.

[B]

What song were they singing?

[C]

I don't know. Will the Circle Be Unbroken? Something like that.

[B]

Nice. I know that's not a bad way to die. Sung to death.

[C]

Yeah, I think so. Sung to death. Yes, that's it.

[B]

Do you worry about death?

[C]

I used to. When I was younger, my mom was sort of a find the cloud in every silver lining kind of person. And so I would have things happen. Like, I got the call they were gonna publish my first book. And I would have this thought, like, too bad I won't live long enough to see that. It was a weird instinc. My mom also used to say, when something good happens, hide under the bed. Cause she figured the other shoe was gonna drop, so. But I pushed through that pretty quickly. Yeah, I don't worry about it. I don't worry about it too much. Because I feel like I'm happy with who I am and how I've lived and certainly accomplished a lot. I don't know. It doesn't seem productive to worry about it. You think about it sometimes in the long hours of the night. Right. And what that would be like and non existence, you know? But it doesn't seem to be anywhere to go with the thought. So I tend to move on.

[B]

Is this why you keep yourself so busy? So that you never have to think about death?

[C]

It could be. You know, I do have a sense of, like, I got a lot to do yeah, clearly I'm not slowing down. And I don't know, there is that clearly some. It's at the root of this sort of colossal productivity is. Is some sense of time, you know, some sense that this is a finite window. And, you know, you never know when you go into a career right where the peak is going to be, you know, and some people, they peak early. I felt like I was sort of a 20 year overnight success, but I feel like I'm still on the ascent, right. Which in my 50s is a great place to be, right. Of going into feeling like I could. I feel like I could really stretch this. I don't know if I can. I don't know if I want to be Ridley Scott at 86 or whatever, shooting two movies a year, but, you know, a movie every couple of years, you know, you just want to be able to be able to choose when you stop or if you stop, you know, I do.

[B]

I cannot imagine stopping. What do you think happens after you die?

[C]

I mean, I'm not really optimistic that there's some other life or some continuation of consciousness or, you know, some sense of looking down from above on the others. I mean, but the universe is a weird and wonderful place. So I don't know, I'd like to think that you're. That you're added to some collective energy of. I mean, it's sort of hard to describe what it is, you know, on a good day, I think if you've done it right, then the work that you've done outlives you. And that includes the children you've raised and all of that. And, you know, that doesn't necessarily last for a thousand years, but you know, you might get a couple hundred if you made a real impact.

[B]

I like that. Well, I got news for you, Noah. There's a heaven and you're going, yeah. And it's filled with your favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?

[C]

It's my favorite thing. I mean, my family is my favorite thing. But I don't want them to get there until they're ready, so.

[B]

Right. So it's sort of empty.

[C]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

You get there, it's empty while you wait.

[C]

I think, you know, so much of what drives me is a instinct for play, to play creatively, to play, you know, problem solving, to, you know, it's all so fun to me. Right. So, you know, on some level, it's not like I can't wait to get to heaven and put my feet up, right. It's like that I'd Love to mix it up with, you know, I mean, if there was a heaven and, you know, you get there and, you know, you can meet people you've always wanted to meet and, you know, and just. And just kind of like, I don't know, the life of the mind is really exciting to me. And so that would be a version of heaven.

[B]

In your heaven, there's a big Foley room, and you get to go in and put sounds to images with people you want to hang out with. It'll be really fun. And everyone's very excited to see you. They're all big fans and they want to talk to you about your life, but they want to talk about it through film. And the first thing they ask is very odd. The first thing they ask you is, what is the very first film you remember seeing? Noah hawley.

[C]

I saw 2001 A Space Odyssey in the theater when I was seven years old.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. I think it explains a lot.

[B]

Yeah. What did you make of it?

[C]

You know, it's. It's obviously. I mean, that movie has so many iconic images, but. But if it's the. If your first experience, you know, and when I grew up, right. I mean, I think we had a black and white television in the house. You know, it was probably about this big. Right. So to go to a movie theater at that age and to see that movie, to see a movie in which, you know, Kubrick often talked about how people don't respond to a story because of the think of it, they respond because of the feel of it. Right. And he often kind of detached image from information on some levels. You were always a little disoriented. You know, your brain was working to figure out what you were looking at.

[B]

And can you give me an example of that? What do you mean, image without information?

[C]

Well, so, you know, when you think about what happens at the end of 2001, he goes through that portal or whatever, and then he's in this space, right. And he's an old man. He's a young man. And there's a monolith and there's a. You know, and your brain is going, I'm having an emotional experience. Clearly, there's a lot of feeling attached to this. I'm not sure what it means. Yeah, but because. Because our brains are pattern seeking and looking for information, we're now. Our brains are now trying. Imposing meaning on things. You know, we're trying to figure out what this is. It's, you know, it's the David lynch thing where you're like, I don't know. My, my brain is trying to tell me what's going on right now, you know, and I don't know, there's something, there's something about starting that movie in, in the sort of prehistoric era, right? Think about a six year old and you're watching it as caveman and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Monkeys and the bone, the monolith, right? And you're like, what is happening right now? And the bone goes up, it turns into a space station. I mean, you know, it's interesting because you know, I was transfixed the whole movie, right? You know, and my, my son is, you know, he's 13 now, but when he was, he's got ADD. He's always had a hard time like sitting through something. But I remember we sat and we watched Spirited Away, you know, that, that amazing. And he didn't move the whole movie because you did not know what was going to happen next. It was so. It wasn't just an information delivery device. You know, so much of the modern storytelling is exposition information and because, because people are so quick, we're often ahead of the story and so then you start to check out. But the moment, it's a little surreal or you know, or unexpected, you know, it really pulls people forward. So, you know, so that was my first movie experience.

[B]

That's a great one.

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[B]

What is the film that scared you most? Do you like being scared? You like Alien?

[C]

I do, I do. I watch a lot of horror.

[B]

Oh great.

[C]

My daughter started wanting to watch horror movies, you know, and 12 or 13. So, so I, that's our thing. We'll watch horror movies together. And, and so I watch a lot of, a lot of horror movies. You know, like a lot of people. I saw The Exorcist at 9 or whatever because they had it on TV or something. You know, you can't imagine. Like why would they? It's like an X rated movie. How did it ever end up on television? And I saw Too Young and it really, you know, the supernatural stuff is. That's the horror for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, I'm not a slasher guy and you know, all that. But that movie really got me the Exorcist, you know, But. But it was interesting because I've been trying to scare my daughter now for a long time, and I couldn't really do it. And then I showed her Paranormal Activity and that freaked. That one freaked her out. And it was the realism of it. Right. It was the mudanity that was so scary, that film. Yeah. And I thought, oh, that's really interesting. Like, the more stylized, the more. The stuff that's working the hardest to scare you. She was sort of a nerd to. But the thing that. Not working hard at all, it was just presenting it objectively that really freaked her out.

[B]

I. I got really. I love the Paranormal Activity films. I like all of them. And I like. I find it really interesting, just the sort of. Whatever this pattern thing is, you're saying that the human brain is that what that the sort of genius of that film is. It goes, here's an image which is going to keep showing you the same image. At some point, something in this image is going to change.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But it might not be for a while. And so it's so instantly scary. It's so simple. It's just a square and it says, just keep looking at this. It's very smart.

[C]

Yeah. On some level, it's the most cinematic medium because the dialogue doesn't really matter in so much of the cases, like. And it produces the biggest feeling, which is fear, for the least amount of money. Because really what you're scared of is like, why. I'm looking at this guy and I can see that doorway open behind him. And I don't like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I don't know what's going to come through that. And now my imagination is fully engaged with it. Right. And, yeah. You know, it's really the only medium that. That engages our imagination to that extent while we're watching. Right. Because usually cinema is a more passive experience. They're doing all the work and you're taking it in. And so I like that about it. I like that while I'm watching, I'm also writing the movie. Also, like, well, what would I have back there? Everything.

[B]

I just saw the film Undertone. Did you see that?

[C]

I did. I saw it. Yeah.

[B]

I liked that so much. I found it so scary. But I also was like, it's all sound. It was just. You're watching someone's face and hearing.

[C]

Right? Yeah. Scary shit to it. Yeah. I thought it was very, very effective in terms of that, you know, which, you know, people Talk about horror being recession proof. But part of why it is is because you can do a single location and you can. You can make it all your imagination and, you know, make the audience do the work. And you've just got, you know, a woman sitting at a desk with headphones on like we are now. But. But it's scary because the ideas that sense, you know, once the human mind, that fear gets triggered, you know, it's. It's pretty profound.

[B]

Can I ask you a question about Alien Earth? Just because it's a TV show, it looks and feels like a really, really expensive film. And I know how hard it is to make TV and budgets and everything. Did you. Maybe you can't answer this. Did you get what you want? Do you feel like, were you given the resources you wanted, or did you achieve that in a really difficult way where you had to do a lot of magic and cutting corners or whatever? Because it doesn't look like it. The point is it looks amazing.

[C]

And I wonder if, well, thank you.

[B]

You got everything you asked for kind of thing.

[C]

Well, look, I pride myself on making things for a price, right? And definitely, definitely, there were a lot of convers conversations about, you know, the show that you're asking for and the show that you say you can afford. Those are not the same show, right? So. So we either need to change what the scripts are or you need to say you want to make those scripts, et cetera. And, you know, what ended up happening is, you know, so we ended up, for example, shooting in Thailand, right? Because the price point of shooting in Thailand makes you're able to get more things on the screen, you're spending less on labor and all of those things. And there are costs to that consequences in terms of the skill level of the art departments and all of that. I guess what I would say is the constraints that are put on us as storytellers are not a negative, right? You have to innovate within those. And so there's things that I had to compromise on that going into season two. I'm like, look, we built one ship for people to fly in. I need that level of world building. I need more of that. You know, I had to fake a couple of things, you know, and.

[B]

But.

[C]

But on a fundamental level, you know, when I look back at the show I made the show that I, I wanted to, and. And I think it was hugely effective. But I do, I pride myself. You know, I was talking to Robert Downey about, you know, this Avengers movie he's making and the price tag on that, which is ridiculous. And I told him what I had to make Alien Earth. He was like, get out of my face. There's no way that you made it for that money. And it's like, well, yeah, that's a point of pride, right?

[B]

Yeah. Respect. What is the film that made you cry the most? Are you a crier? Do you cry?

[C]

I will cry. You know, I, I watched Hail Mary last weekend. That was like a four cry movie for me. Right? Like it, it hit, it hits all the boy cry spots, right? It's like loyalty and friendship. He's going back for him and you know, all of those things. It's funny because when I was a kid I watched this movie called Dead Man's Curve and it was about Jan and Dean, the singers, like the old singer. It was like on TV again on tv and one of them is in a car crash and he has to learn how to speak again. And like it's this friendship and they had this career and they were about to get there, you know, and now he's had this debilitating illness. I just remember like, what could I have been like 12? And I just remember like, you know, sobbing over this movie. I don't know, I don't know why, but it kind of has always stuck with me as a, you know, as a. I mean, it's funny because probably the worst movie, I've never gone back to look at it, but there was something in that moment for me that was really emotional. I don't know.

[B]

That's great. What is the film that you love? It is not critically acclaimed, but you love it so much you don't care what people say.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about that because again, critically acclaimed, like do people love the movie? Was it critically successful? Was it panned? I mean, I remember a movie that I, that I really loved. Andrew Dominick made this movie, Killing Them Softly with Brad Pitt.

[B]

Yeah, I like that film.

[C]

Yeah, I love that movie. But I feel like it didn't really land and people. But I've watched that movie so many times.

[B]

Great last line.

[C]

There's something, you know, Scoot McNairy's in it and you know, and it has this like this working class, you know, even these like you know, day to day street hoodlums, they're part of a bureaucracy just like everybody else. And I don't know, I thought that was a pretty great movie. But I did, I will, I will admit that I did rewatch Battleship recently and I do like that movie. You know, I don't Know why? It's fun. There's a lot of fun things in it. And, you know, I mean, yeah, it's. Look, it's. It's an adaptation of Battleship. What do you want? You know, But. But Jesse Plemons and Rihanna's in it. And I thought the. Some of the gags and the conceits. And he built a good movie out of that.

[B]

I thought, yeah, I think you're right.

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[B]

On the other end of the scale, what's a film you used to love, but you've watched it recently and you thought, I don't like this anymore because you've changed now.

[C]

Well, it's funny. Cause, you know, before I went to do Alien, I wanted to go back to the stuff that scared me as a kid. So, like, I reread the Amityville horror book and I went back and rewatched the Exorcist for the first time since. Cause it was too scary. I could never watch it again. And I rewatched and I was like, oh, yeah, it's not. I mean, you know, it's a classic. You know, it's a great movie, but. But it's. It's dated and it's a little bloated. It's a little silly. And. And I thought, oh, yeah, this doesn't. You know, it lives in my imagination in a much stronger way than it lives. Yeah, that's in reality for me. It's.

[B]

It's a very long build in it in that film. Very, very long.

[C]

It is, it is. And then it goes so far, you know, and it's so over the top. And. And, yeah, I don't know. It just didn't. It didn't click with me. Which was interesting, right? Because of course, what scares me really is my memory of it. And not necessarily the movie itself, you know.

[B]

What is the film that means the most to you? Not necessarily the film itself is good, but the experience you had seeing the film will always make it meaningful to you. Noah Hawley.

[C]

So when I was in my 30s, I went through a phase where my parents got sick when I, you know, young, like they were Mad Men generation, you know, smoking, drinking, et cetera. And so you know, my dad went through this sort of seven year odyssey of heart issues and kidney and lung, you know, all this sort of stuff. And then they were in New York, and then my mom got breast cancer. And then. So then I was. There was a couple of weeks where I was in the city and I was, like, seeing him at his nursing home and then taking her to Columbia Presbyterian for her procedure. And I would go back to their apartment and I would kind of vibrate, right. Because it's like, it's so heavy. And I went to see the Matrix, and I went in and I watched the Matrix, and I think I'd seen the trailer, but I had no idea what that movie was gonna be. Right. And that movie is so profoundly expansive. Right. You know, you hit that moment where it's like, no, it's really the year, whatever. And now we're in this digital world and. And of course it is. I mean, you know, I defy anyone to say that's not one of the great movies of all time, you know, And I walked out of that theater and I just. It was such a profoundly cathartic experience to have, you know, in this moment in my life where everything was so, you know, kind of claustrophobic to have experienced, you know, an artwork that changed. I mean, you know, on some level, that movie changed movies, right? It changed.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It did both how you make them and also the sort of ambition for the philosophical underpinnings of a genre that people, you know, tend to dismiss a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. It also has the kind of fight club thing of inspiring the wrong things as well.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

A lot of bad people take it as a. Take the wrong messages from it.

[C]

But, you know, the degree of commitment, what was, obviously the training that had gone into it for all of them and the soundtrack and the fact that it was both style and substance, you know, to that height, you know, it's hard to pull off, for sure.

[B]

I also don't think that bullet time, the visual effect of bullet time has been topped.

[C]

No.

[B]

I think that was like the last great sort of innovation in terms of, like, camera tricks. And I don't think there's been anything because since then, I guess it's mostly computer stuff. And.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of impossible shots that people have figured out how to. How to get. But part of it, you know, I think it's just. It was used. It was the exact right tool for the gag. Right. You know, and, I mean, Danny Boyle does really fun stuff with, you know, this sort of Multi camera, iPhone setups and everything, you know, that are used very effectively. He's not trying to do bullet time, but he's always experimenting and playing around with camera technique and, you know, and obviously in a retu with the Oners and Revenant and, you know, there's certainly a lot of impressive cinema, but, yeah, it felt revolutionary in that moment, you know, and that hasn't necessarily been topped yet.

[B]

Yeah. What is the film you most relate to?

[C]

You know? You mean in terms of my life or.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it's up to you how you interpret it, but yeah, you're like, oh, that's what my childhood was like. Or this character is how I feel, or this world is how I see the world.

[C]

Yeah, it's interesting. I don't. It's not an easy one to bring to mind. You know, I haven't watched a lot of things where I'm like, oh, that's just like my mom or whatever, you know, So I either need more time to think about it or we can come back to it or whatever. But. But, yeah, I don't have an easy answer for that. Yeah.

[B]

What is the sexiest film you've ever seen?

[C]

You know, it's. I mean, obviously it's. It's. It depends on your. Your definition of. Of that word. You know, when I thought about it, I thought of Mulholland Drive.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And not just because of the sexuality in it, but it's a sexy film

[B]

all the way through.

[C]

It had this. Yeah. This haunting quality to it. This seduction to the. Of the film itself pulling you through it. The arousal of it is not just sexual. Right. It's, you know, it's. It's. You know, what I talked about earlier, that surreal that the feel of a thing, the cowboy out in the thing, you know, under the light and the. And then there is this sexuality to it. This sort of, you know, lesbian fantasy of, you know, these two women and this love story and this mystery and all of it. And then the reveal that that's either not real or, you know, it's. I don't know, it just really has a sensualness to the whole movie that. Yeah, that's what comes to mind.

[B]

It's a perfect answer. I can't argue a bit. You want. You want to skip over troubling bonus.

[C]

Yes. I'm not going to choose that category for 400.

[B]

Okay. What is objectively the greatest film of all time? Objectively, it might not be your favorite, but if people said, what is cinema? You would show them this film.

[C]

I'd show them there will be blood.

[B]

Fucking great answer.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can have that. I mean, on every level. Right. And, you know, both in its sort of sophistication of storytelling, not letting you off the hook in an. In an easy way, you know, the. The depth of character. You know, I. I had a lunch with Paul Dano. He was talking me through his. You know, because he came onto that movie in. In such a. He was hired to play the one brother. And then they. And then they.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah. He wasn't supposed to be both brothers. He was just supposed to be the one who showed up to get him to come to the ranch. And then he ended up playing. And so, like, one of the. His first days of shooting was the church scene, was the. Get out of here, Satan. And you're just like, how did you go there? You know, day two or whatever. But no, there's something to the. You know, I'm a sucker for the great American novel. I'm a sucker for the big swing. Conceptually, thematically, the idea that I'm going to walk out of it and, you know, and I'm going to feel like I know more about America. I'm going to feel I know more about greed. I'm going to feel I know more about the human psyche. And, you know, it's not an easy movie. The fact that he abandons his child, the fact that he's forced to admit he abandons his child. You know, that whole push pull with Dano and. I don't know. It's a perfect film.

[B]

Yeah. And one of the best beginnings and one of the best endings.

[C]

Yes, agreed.

[B]

And one of the best middles.

[C]

Yeah. So basically a perfect film.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. The road to the NBA Finals ends here with star guard setting the tone. The Cavs eye another upset while the Knicks carry the dreams of all of New York.

[B]

The Eastern Conference Finals.

[C]

Consistent Continue on ESPN and abc.

[B]

What is the film you could or have watched the most over and over again?

[C]

Well, it's funny because the reason that I put Ice Age into Alien Earth is because I've seen that movie more than any other movie. But that's just because I have kids. Right. When you have kids, like, you're like, okay, zootopia again. All right, let's do it. Let's do it. Because they learn through repetition and they like, you know, that sort of thing. So. But let's see the movie that I've seen. You know, I've probably watched Grand Budapest Hotel. Like. Yeah, for me, that's kind of A, also a perfect film in the, in the, just the sheer joy of it, you know, Ralph Fiennes's performance and the level of detail and, you know, it's kind of a perfect comic yarn. But that also is, is rooted, you know, unlike some of his films, you know, it's really rooted in this place, this kind of moment in Europe where the old is being replaced and fascism is there and, you know, this guy who's, who had outlived his era and all of that. So I just feel like when I watch it, I'm both having a really great time. But, but it's, I'm. It's giving me that emotional experience over again. I mean, the other movie that is worth mentioning is, you know, I'll rewatch Zodiac like every year. And I said this to David Fincher, I said, there's a moment in Zodiac every time I watch it where I think they're going to solve it. Yeah, right. When he's at the house and the guy's like, in the basement and you're like, oh, shit, this is the guy. Right. But, you know, they didn't solve it. They never solved it. And yet it's a testament to the filmmaking that every time I think, oh, they're going to solve it. Right? Like, yeah, but that, that movie is, is also, you know, it's so great.

[B]

I've used that movie as a reference when talking about other things, about when people are sort of true stories that have unresolved endings. And I think what's very clever about Zodiac is it kind of gives you both. It sort of goes, they didn't solve it.

[C]

But we all know. Yeah, yeah, the guy with the Zodiac watch. Yeah, yeah, I know.

[B]

What's the worst film you've ever seen?

[C]

Well, I've been a judge on some, some. I mean, the worst movie I've ever seen, no one has ever seen, Right. If you're a judge at film festivals and stuff, you're. Yes, you know, you know, do people answer this question? I mean, it's such a, it's such a sort of like mean spirited thing to, to feel like, to say, you

[B]

can absolutely pass on it.

[C]

I can absolutely pass on it. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I'm trying to think of a movie that I hated. Yeah, I don't, I don't have a. I don't have a good answer for that.

[B]

I respect that. I respect that. You're right not to answer it. It was a test. Well done. You passed it.

[C]

Okay, good.

[B]

What's the funny. What's the film that made you laugh the most?

[C]

There are so many. I mean, you know, kind of have to go by decade in some ways, right? Because you. When you're younger. And what was funny then and what's funny now? I mean, my story, when people ask me about the first time I saw Alien, is to say, well, I was supposed to go see Alien at like, a 9th birthday party or a 10th birthday party or something. And my parents, in their one act of going, maybe that's not a good idea, said, maybe y' all should see a different movie.

[B]

Stay home and watch the Exorcist.

[C]

No. And so we went to see the In Laws instead, which is Alan Arkin and Peter Falk. And, you know, Alan's a dentist and his son's getting married to this woman, and her father's actually in the CIA, Peter Falk. And he's like, sheldon, I need you to come with me and do this thing. And they go on this, like, South American adventure. And Alan Arkin is just a dentist. He doesn't understand what's going on. And I remember that movie. It was. That's a really great. That's a really funny, funny movie, you know. But I'll tell you, you know, now, in my. I mean, I would say one of the great comedies I. I've seen in the last 10 years is the Death of Stalin. You know, it's the. Ichi.

[B]

Yeah, it's fucking great.

[C]

And it's. Every time. Every time. And. And, you know, but it's funny in a much different. In more kind of profoundly disturbing way. And yet, you know, when you find yourself, you know, you're with Barry in the secret police headquarters, and they're walking out and there's a gag where they've just thrown a guy down the stairs, right? And you can't help but laugh because it's a sight gag. It's torture, but it's a sight gag, right? Like, it's really complicated. And so, you know, that movie sticks with me, too.

[B]

Now, Holly, you have been a delight.

[C]

Oh, I appreciate that. However. Yes. When you.

[B]

How old were you when you died? I never asked you that.

[C]

Oh, when I died, I was 91.

[B]

When you were 91 years old and you were lying in your bed and your family were around you, and they sang you, Will the circle be unbroken? And you had recently had your other ear drilled into so you could hear so clearly that them were singing, would a circle be unbroken? The louder they sang, it actually made your brain explode. And your brain exploded. In your head, Came out your ears.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Came onto your chin, and you started hiccuping. You were dead.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Everyone starts screaming. I'm walking past with a coffin. You know what? I'm like. I go, what's all the screaming? I come upstairs, I say, what's going on? They go, oh, we accidentally sang Noah to death. We just thought we were having a nice time, but we made his brain explode because we were too loud. And I go, well, it happens. And I say, help me out here. And we get your body into the coffin, but it's not the right size. There's more of you than I was expecting. So I'm getting all your family members. I'm like, come get some knives. We're chopping you up. We have to chop you up into little bits. Get you in the coffin. We stuff you in the coffin. Absolutely. Just rammed in that coffin. There's no room in this coffin. There is only enough room for me to slide one DVD into the side for you to take across to the other side. And on the other side, it's movie night in heaven. Every single night. What film are you taking to show in the foley room in heaven when it is your movie night, Mr. Noah Hawley?

[C]

Well, I'm gonna change it a little bit for you, because when you asked me that, my thought was this. You would put in a CD that had the original recording of the radio play, the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, and we would sit and we would listen to it in heaven. Because that experience, for me, of, you know, I mean, when it came on in the states, you know, and they would play an episode a week on npr, and, I mean, a huge part of my creative imagination is rooted in radio, in that, you know, my dad had studied acting in the UK he brought home all these goon show records, you know, this sort of radio theater. Right. I'm the filmmaker that I am, because I closed my eyes and I made the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy in my brain. Right? So I don't know. That's when you say that, it's like, well, I don't want to watch something. I want to go. I want to live in that imagination. I want to make that movie in my head every night.

[B]

You know, you wanted to make stuff in heaven. This is a perfect answer.

[C]

Let's mix it up.

[B]

Noah Hawley, what would you like to tell people to look out for, to watch, to read of your upcoming work?

[C]

Yeah, well, you know, we'll be shooting those two things. Alien Earth and far cry and you know, hopefully get another Fargo in there. You know, unfortunately the post on these things takes a little bit of time, but you know, we're coming back as quickly as we can. But you know, the other thing I would say nothing makes me happier than when people come up to me, which they do a lot and they, they talk about the rewatch. You know, I love, it's getting harder and harder to make stuff that's timeless. And what I love is when people come and they're like, you know, every year I watch a Fargo or all the Fargos or, you know, they want to go back to them. They know that there's stuff in there that will feel different when they watch it this time or, you know, and so that's the joy for me is like to go back and relive and discover new things.

[B]

That's great. Noah, you have been a delight. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Have a wonderful day. Good day to you, sir.

[C]

You too.

[B]

That was episode 395. Head over to the patreon at patreon.com forward slash. Brett Goldstein. For the extra chat secrets and video with Mr. Noah, go to Apple podcast. Give us a five star rating. Write about the film that means the most to you and why it's lovely. Things read really helps me numbers. We really appreciate it. Thank you very much. I hope you're all well. Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to watch all of you on Apple tv. Shrinking on Apple tv, Ted Lasso on Apple TV and Office Romance on Netflix. You can see me live if you want to see me do stand up. I don't know where you'd find that information. Probably on the Internet somewhere. Thank you so much to Noah for doing this. Thanks to Scrubus Pip and the Distraction Pieces network. Thanks to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks Adam Richardson for the graphics, Lisa Lydon for the photography. Come join me next week for a really incredible guest. That is it for now. In the meantime, I hope you're all well. Thank you for listening. Have a lovely week and please be excellent to each other.

[C]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[A]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].