Zaheeda Suleman: Reinventing Yourself - From Safaricom Brand Boss to CEO of Be Experience

Summary

Financially Incorrect – Podcast Summary

Episode: Zaheeda Suleman: Reinventing Yourself – From Safaricom Brand Boss to CEO of Be Experience
Host: Barrack Bukusi
Guest: Zaheeda Suleiman Orin
Date: November 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deeply candid and practical conversation between host Barrack Bukusi and Zaheeda Suleiman Orin—the founder and CEO of The Be Experience Company, and former Head of Brand Experience at Safaricom. Together, they explore Zaheeda's remarkable journey of personal and professional reinvention: from her formative years navigating family financial turbulence, to scaling Safaricom’s brand experience to new heights, and ultimately making the leap into entrepreneurship. The episode dives into money memories, hard-won financial philosophies, gender dynamics in corporate Kenya, and the emotional and psychological realities of building something new from scratch.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family Background and Early Money Awareness

• Roots and Parental Influence
  • Zaheeda's father was a third/fourth generation Kenyan of Indian descent, her mother Russian. Her parents defied gender norms, with her mother playing an active role in the family trucking business.
  • Her first awareness of money was tied to the family being among the first to own a TV in Narok, symbolizing ‘wealth’ (13:16).
• Childhood Lessons & Observations
  • Money was rarely discussed openly; she learned by observation: “Kids always know when things aren’t right.” (14:21)
  • Witnessed seasons of prosperity and hardship—car ownership, good schools, but also struggles with unpaid school fees and business debts.
• Financial Trauma & Aversion to Debt
  • Her father’s passing at 26 left her thrust into responsibility—salvaging the family home from foreclosure after business loans went unpaid.
  • “Loans. I have a fear for loans. I have seen loans destroy people.” (19:02)
  • Credit to I&M Bank for compassion in restructuring their mortgage (24:10).

2. Education and Early Adulthood

• Rebellious ‘Party Animal’ Years
  • Open about her wild teens and twenties, studying in the US, funding her lifestyle through student jobs.
  • Draws a distinction between “maturing” (learning to earn for luxury) and “growing up” (becoming responsible for others) (38:14).
• Return to Kenya and First Jobs
  • Back with a kinesiology degree but few local prospects. Entered the events/PR world via Ginadin Corporate Communications and, subsequently, Safaricom.

3. Safaricom: Career Growth, Financial Milestones & Leadership Lessons

• Entry and Ascent
  • Started at Safaricom in 2004 as Events Coordinator; salary more than doubled in the move (43:56).
  • Over nearly 20 years, rose to Head of Brand Experience—unusually spending her entire corporate career across two organizations: “I did things in 20 years you’d need 4–5 job changes to do elsewhere.” (53:27)
• Money Habits & Saving Philosophy
  • Credits friend Christine for “dragging her” to open a proper savings account, which transformed her financial future (50:51).
  • Turned rudimentary savings into a discipline, emphasizing: “Every month, there must be a certain amount put aside. Non-negotiable.” (52:41)
• Corporate Achievements
  • Responsible for initiatives such as Nikona Safaricom Live (live music tour, 200m KES budget), Chapadimba (youth football league), and Safaricom Jazz (democratizing access to international music).
  • Measured brand investment not just in ROI, but in brand equity and national impact (59:15).

Notable Quotes:

• "Build the brand, the business will follow." – Michael Joseph, quoted by Zaheeda (59:15)
• “No one teaches you about preparing yourself emotionally [for leaving corporate life].” (120:19)

4. Personal Finance, Partnership, and Family Structure

• Financial Dynamics with Spouse
  • Met her husband in 2005, built a marriage based on financial transparency and equality: “We’ve always been an equal household.” (79:38)
  • Detailed break-down of household responsibilities: her husband covers school fees/rent/groceries, she covers entertainment, holidays, and utilities (95:11)
• Investment and Wealth Building
  • Initial investments mostly savings; first foray into shares was via a loan to buy Safaricom IPO stock (84:35).
• Bonuses and Major Purchases
  • Last Safaricom bonus: 8 million KES, used directly to buy land near Nanyuki without consulting husband—reflecting independence (92:37).

Notable Quotes:

• “I didn’t even tell my husband. I just went and gave it to my lawyer and said, those acres we saw, here’s the money.” (91:32)
• “Equal contributor in the home... what’s really important is financial independence.” (95:16)

5. Leaving Corporate and Starting Be Experience

• Rationale and Planning for Exit
  • Decision to leave Safaricom built over two years; did not initially see herself as an entrepreneur.
  • Planned meticulously for health, mortgage, insurance; sold Safaricom shares and drew investments to eliminate debt before leap (112:24, 114:10).
• Initial Struggles and Emotional Toll
  • First months difficult: “I called my husband… can you call me to see if my phone is working?” (133:05)
  • Network that came through were not always who she expected—suppliers more than former colleagues (127:47).
  • Experienced radical income drop: from million-plus salary to first gig of 50,000 KES (143:02)
• Business Philosophy
  • Relentless focus on brand: “Build the brand, the business will follow.”
  • Avoided early overheads—no flashy office, minimal staff—to ensure sustainability (155:54).
  • Careful about the associations and types of gigs, preferring to pass on opportunities that don’t align with brand or won’t be profitable (159:49).

Notable Quotes:

• “The same people who didn’t pick my calls, I’d still pick theirs. Your position is a gift.” (136:22)
• “Prepare yourself emotionally, not just financially.” (147:22)

6. Soul Fest & Building The Be Experience Brand

• Breakthrough Gig
  • Ran the last “Soul Fest” for Sauti Sol as a full-service project, proving the new business’s creative and management capacity (105:53).
  • Delivered complex projects with a freelance “consortium” model.
  • Stressed the importance of paying suppliers and partners fairly and on time (139:32).
• Brand Experience Strategy
  • Brand experience begins with understanding the customer, delivering what they want (and don’t know they want)—“Give the consumer what they don’t know they want yet.” (122:09)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:26: Zaheeda’s reckoning with responsibility after her father’s death
• 10:28: Family entrepreneurial journey
• 19:01: Trauma and lessons about loans/debt
• 23:29: Saving the family home — I&M Bank story
• 38:14: Distinguishing between “maturing” and “growing up”
• 43:56: Salary leap to Safaricom
• 50:51: The intervention that made Zaheeda a saver
• 53:27: “What I did in Ginadin and Safaricom for 20 years…”
• 56:32: Nikona Safaricom Live—project origin & impact
• 68:12: Career mistake stories & handling crisis
• 77:18: Equal partnership in marriage and money
• 91:32: Using 8 million KES bonus to buy land
• 112:24: The psychological and practical preparation for leaving a secure job
• 120:19: Emotional readiness vs financial readiness for entrepreneurship
• 127:58: Who came through after leaving Safaricom
• 143:02: From million-plus salary to 50,000 KES gig
• 155:54: Office space and structure—lean early years

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Notable Quotes (with Attribution & Timestamps)

• "Loans. I have a fear for loans. I have seen loans destroy people."
  Zaheeda, 19:02

• "Build the brand, the business will follow."
  Zaheeda, quoting Michael Joseph, 59:15

• "Every month, there must be a certain amount of money that you're putting that I have to put aside. That is a habit I’ve had since 2004."
  Zaheeda, 52:41

• "No one teaches you about preparing yourself emotionally."
  Zaheeda, 120:19

• "We’ve always been an equal household. He wanted that from me and I wanted that for myself."
  Zaheeda, 79:38

• "I didn't even tell my husband. I just gave it to my lawyer and said, those acres we saw, here’s the money."
  Zaheeda, 91:32

• "Prepare yourself emotionally, not just financially. That will hit you."
  Zaheeda, 147:22

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Concepts and Takeaways

• Financial Literacy Evolves from Crisis:
  The most vivid money lessons come not from inheritance or advice, but from exposure to adversity—family illness, business collapse, and the raw aftermath of death.

• Financial Independence for Women:
  Zaheeda urges women never to compromise on financial independence, shaped by witnessing her mother’s vulnerability after her father’s passing (95:41).

• Navigating the Corporate Ladder:
  Career ascent is not always linear—Zaheeda’s loyalty and sustained innovation at one company belie the myth that ‘jumping’ is required for success.

• Entrepreneurial Reality:
  Social safety nets and professional relationships often look different after leaving a corporate title. True support sometimes arrives from unexpected quarters.

• Values-driven Brand Building:
  Building a company is not a race to match previous salaries, but a longer journey towards legacy, sustainability, and brand equity.

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Conclusion

Zaheeda Suleiman Orin’s story, told with warmth, humor, and heartfelt honesty, is testament to the enduring importance of resilience, financial discipline, and self-awareness. Her journey spotlights the necessity—and challenge—of emotional readiness for reinvention, the reality of entrepreneurial solitude, and the rewards of building anew from experience and values. It’s a masterclass in navigating both the hard numbers and soft skills of financial and personal growth.

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To see what Zaheeda and The Be Experience are up to, find them on Instagram: @be_experience.

Transcript

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

You know, they tell you, prepare yourself financially. No one teaches you about preparing yourself emotionally.

[Barack]

Are you emotionally prepared to leave your job if you are looking to leave employment? On this week's episode of Financially Incorrect, I speak to Zaheeda Suleiman Orin, the founder and CEO of the Bee Experience Company and former head of brand experience at Safaricom.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I always tell people what I did in Dinadin and Safaricom for 20 years is what it would take 4, 5 job changes in my industry. In Safaricom, the bonuses were pegged on your performance level and where you are in the company. So.

[Barack]

Okay, would you tell us what your Last bonus was?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

8 million.

[Barack]

8 million.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. I took that bonus as it is. I didn't even tell my husband. I just went and I gave it to my lawyer and I said, those acres we sold, here's the money. I didn't even ask him, contribute. Remember, we are doing 50, 50 everything. I just, I came back home and I said, you'll pay me back whenever you're ready or you'll contribute to my building.

[Barack]

She breaks down to us how they handle finances in her household between her and her husband.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And we have a very good balance. We're very clear on what he's paying for and what I pay for. So he pays for school fees, rent, groceries. He does all of that. I pay for entertainment, holidays, Internet, tv, water, electricity, etc. But if he was here, he'd tell you he's doing more, which we take.

[Barack]

She talks about the financial responsibilities she had to take on very early on after the unfortunate passing on of her father.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I was 26 when my dad died, and there was a lot of things I had to. I always say I was a child until my father died, even as an adult.

[Barack]

And the role that clients like Soulfest have played in building up her newcomer.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So I met Bien for coffee at Art Cafe, and he said to me, we need your help. Would you please come help us do Soulfest?

[Barack]

She talks about handling crisis in her career and at some point, a crisis that even got her to think that she would be fired.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Hey. As much as Michael Joseph was trying to be a forgiving boss, even he was under a lot of pressure. So I took myself to his office on Monday morning, thinking, I'm going to be fired.

Every cent really counts. You don't do this personally because it's not a competition. But then the flip side to it is when you look at it, you're.

[Barack]

Like, if it was serious, how much.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Further could I drag out a shilling?

[Barack]

Hey, everybody, this is Barack I'm the host of the Financially Incorrect podcast. It has been two and a half years. We have had 150 episodes, over 150 guests. This is across Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda. And now we've turned everything we've learned into a game. A game that puts you at the center of your money moments where your choices, your upbringing and your personality and maybe a little bit of luck determine how your story unfolds. So now, at this point in time, your boyfriend or girlfriend comes up to you and they want this really cool gift. And it costs exactly what you have saved. What do you guys do? Oh, you have an answer.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Us, in this economy, we decided to keep our money and not buy the gift. Maybe next time we'll get them something.

[Barack]

So you got no gift?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, just words of information.

[Barack]

Roll the.

This is a Financially Incorrect game designed to challenge how we think, talk, and act with money.

And we're launching it the only way we know how, with bold conversations and great whiskey. On November 15th, join us for the Financially Incorrect mixer in partnership with Singleton. It's not just the game. It's the stories we've lived and the lessons we've learned. Brought to life the possibility of how to use free will. Because at any point, anyone can make like you can choose to make any decision you want. So us deciding to take a loan at the very end just to increase that. So people are making moves that you're not aware. You're all in the same market, sticking in your lane.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Because when, as you said, we went from 130, something like we 19,000 percentage, but then it feels like a loss because of comparing to other people. So we did really well. If you're not comparing to other people who have 5 million. So I think that that's a lesson that stuck with me.

[Barack]

So here's to good food, great company, and financial literacy served. Neat.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Financially Incorrect. I am your host, Barack. I have forgotten if this is a Friday or Tuesday episode. It's a Friday episode, so it's a Friday. Happy Friday. I have a personal money story for you. I'm going to get through my announcements really quickly. If you'd like to submit a story, please check the link in the description box. Submit a story. The second announcement is if you'd like to help us with Financially Incorrect and growing this podcast, please check out the link in the description box and just fill in that. Go through that survey. It'll help us build a bit of a better product. Today I have a personal money story coming to you from Zaheeda Suleiman Reign. I think I have gotten Suleiman, Suleiman, Suleiman. I have got. I've corrected it. Suleiman, who is the founder and CEO of the Be Experience. I've gotten that right as well.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

The Be Experience company.

[Barack]

Yes. So, anyway, welcome to Financially Incorrect.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Thank you. Awesome to be here.

[Barack]

Yeah. Looking forward to this. We've been planning this for, like a month now.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

I think.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

But everything in this time.

[Barack]

Yeah. As it happens. So my first question is. Has nothing to do with money or, you know, it's just life. And I was in an elevator the other day and someone had their phone up. Right. And so I wanted to find out from you, what's your phone decorum for people who may be within your proximity and have, you know, we all have, like, really big screens and, you know, the light flashes and, like, the text that comes up. Are you a person who would read the message on the phone or someone else's? Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Hell, yeah.

Yes.

Natural.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

We're the same people. If somebody go Ghana, we're, like, slowing down. We're looking. It's. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I would. Because it's. I don't say it's natural, but I'm an inquisitive person. That doesn't mean, like, I'm standing in the lift, like, looking here, but if it happens to happen, I'll be like. Won't be like this. But if I'm really honest. Yeah.

[Barack]

Would you. Do you acknowledge it? So let's say, like, we're in an elevator. I get a. I get a message. Let's say I was dating someone and, like, they're breaking up with me or something. And like, you can very clearly see based off. So if I'm like, in the element and I can. I can see that you've seen it. Like, do you acknowledge it?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I have, yes. I will say I'm so sorry or I don't think she was worth you. Yeah. But yes, in the right time. I mean, obviously you can tell by somebody's body language if I'm going to come out sounding like a I'm so shameless and PP type. But no point is that has happened where I've sat next to somebody and their letters are so big, as with age, your letters on your phone will get big. And so they were writing something.

And I don't know what I said, or rather, I think my body language the way it was. The person who's sitting next to me in the conference looked and said.

He said something. And I Said, don't worry, all of us are going through the same thing. So it depends. But no, I wouldn't sit in a meeting with you and be like, what are you doing? Yeah, but if it happened to cross my path, I wouldn't be like.

[Barack]

Like I did.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I'm sorry.

[Barack]

I'd be like, yeah, yeah, fair enough.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Human nature.

[Barack]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought about it and. And I was just trying to figure out, like, what's the decorum for, you know, like, phone etiquette and other people's messages and stuff. If actually in the comment section, I'd be curious to hear what your.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Thoughts. And I'm also the same person if I find. If we are in a shop and you're picking something, or if you're. The other day there was a lady who was buying something and I'd already bought the same product, actually was in NUQ over the weekend. There's a certain product that I really like. And I had gone in to buy that shower gel, and the lady was looking at. And she asked the shop attendant, is this a nice one? I said, I really like it. I think you should get it. I've actually come back to replenish my stock, so I see it the same way. Yeah. I don't think it's invasive. It's just, hey, I use it, I like it. So I see it the same way. Like, we're all going through the same kind of stuff.

[Barack]

Okay. Yeah, fair enough. All right. So into your story.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

What you need to cut or you need to want to change the setting to fun?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

You want to start again?

[Barack]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I could give you a different version.

[Barack]

You know, this is going to be the episode.

Anyway, so getting into your getting to your money story.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Right.

[Barack]

I said I did a bit of research, try and get as much information that I could about you. I got a little. So let me see if I. If I got enough. And if I'm accurate, your mom is of Russian descent.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

I'm trying to remember at the time, the ussr.

[Barack]

At the time, the ussr, yeah. And.

What I remember about your father, I think, was that he was an entrepreneur.

And it didn't go as planned at some point.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

Right. And there's a trucking business.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

And. And your parents both sort of are working towards. Your mom comes in, comes into the business and to help. To help your father, if I'm not mistaken.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. So you went into my engaged story.

[Barack]

I have your engaged story. And then I have.

There's a, like, really brief interview. You've done. You did on. On Safaricom.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes, I did. Yes. Yes.

[Barack]

And then I think there's like an article or two that I also found anyway. Yes. So maybe you could tell us. Yeah. The origin of your story.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Story. My father was born in Narok. Third, fourth generation Indian, brought. His great grandfather was brought here by the British, actually. They were supposed to go to South Africa, but their da broke down. They were asked to wait in Mombasa. His great grandfather, obviously being curious, Manga Mangad ended up in kab, opened a shop there. Then in Kabi, was told, go to Narok. That's where the real money is. There's a lot of people who have cash. So he went and opened a shop in Narok. And that's where my father was born. We still have that home. It's still in the family. My father then got the opportunity in the mid-60s to get a scholarship and then go to Moscow to university, which is where he met my mom. My father actually left wanting to do a law degree, met my mom, who convinced him to join him as a. Join him in learning journalism, which is what they both did. And then they came back here to Kenya in the late 60s.

And at the time my father wasn't. My mom couldn't work because of paperwork, obviously, but my dad was working as a sports journalist for Kenny, I believe. But the salary was not enough. So his brother Narok said, stop working. Come help me run the trucking business. He had a truck and they built an empire from that. So that's how it was. And my mom just naturally was not a. What I've always said this and it's. It's something I love about my mom was. My mom was never a homemaker. She just was a go getter in her time was probably ahead. Both my parents were ahead of the thinking and what they wanted for their daughters and their son. You know, my dad's side of the family was very much the girls, you know, at the time brought up to get married, to have children and to be homemakers. And my dad and mom said that was not our story, that wasn't going to be us. So they wanted a lot more for themselves and for their children, which they did beautifully. But yes, my mom went in to help my dad with the trucking business. Interestingly, she was the one who was more on the road and he was at home running the basin. And when I say based, the trucking business was in the compound. We never had an office where my parents got in the car and went to the office. Even Today all our offices are at home. Funny enough, I think one or two of my cousins have an office outside, but land in Narok. We've got the garage there, everything there. So that's how it is. So yes, you got the story right?

[Barack]

A couple of things, but. Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

It's okay. All right.

[Barack]

Yeah. So, so what's, what, what's your first consciousness of money, I guess, as you're growing up. Do you remember?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Because when we're growing up in Narok, money, I would say was the time we got a tv. There was a tv. So we're living in Narok. I don't think I was more than 7 years old and one time my dad came back from Nairobi and he had brought home a small 14 inch TV. And I think we're one of the first people to have a tv and that meant we had money. And I remember in every Sunday air all the relatives would get at my grandmom's house to watch, watch an Indian movie, the latest one. But I think for me the TV just meant that. And even when we were talking to other relatives and stuff, they'd be like, my goodness, you guys have a tv? Your dad must be rich or. But that TV I remember was probably the first thing I thought, oh, we have money. Okay. Far back then, black and white thing like this.

[Barack]

Yeah, I mean it's, it sounds like your, your parents were, like you said, you know, forward thinking and a bit ahead of the time, quote, unquote. Did they ever speak to you about money directly or did they ever teach you about money directly?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Unfortunately, no. My larger answer is actually a no money was very much thing. Culturally then whether. It doesn't matter when I say culturally, if, if you speak to somebody, I turn 50 in two months time. And if you ask any other 50 year old what was a money conversation in any household as we're growing up, rarely did your parents tell you that they had financial issues or that they couldn't make school fees. You know, and we went through all of that. I went through a time where, I remember I went. My primary school was Kilimani Junior Academy, the one in Langatan. One time the headmistress came to the door and she pulled me out of class and my siblings and my cousins and said our school fees wasn't paid. So. And then in your money, we never knew we were having issues, right? So no, largely, unfortunately, no money became something from a family perspective. We watched you watch and you know, we always think kids don't know what's going on, but they do. And so we watch. But were we ever sat down to say, okay, we have. We have lots of money. We're going on holiday, or we have no money. We can't meet your school fees. But you saw it. You saw it happen. And so they may not have verbalized it, but we picked up on it. I did, for sure.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And I think a lot of parents do that to protect their kids, to hide. Men do it because they don't want to bring the pressure home. Women do it because they're covering up. You know, she'd rather go hungry. A mother would rather go hungry than tell her kids there's not enough money. But I think today that's changing, at least the way we speak, my husband and I, to our kids about money. The conscious effort to understand that the value of money looks like this. So my big answer is no.

[Barack]

Okay. I'm curious. Was there a struggle with. With the contrast of, we have a tv, we have money to. I'm being pulled out of class because they're saying we haven't paid fees.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes, because.

You know, and then money is perception. Money. You know, even today, somebody looks at you and thinks, hey, this one's not struggling because we've put up this perception of money. Right. You're driving a big car, but you're not. I had a neighbor in. In the apartment block I lived in a couple of years ago who was driving the latest Range Rover, had an apartment, beautiful penthouse in the compound, always had parties, but was never meeting rent, never paid his rent, and then never paid service charge. And so there's what we're seeing, and assuming he's got all the money in the world, but on this other hand, actually, he doesn't have money. He's living. He's living off this. So, yeah, just to answer your question from that perspective, the perception was, as we were growing up, that we were well to do. And we were. And, you know, being able to come to Nairobi and buy a house and stuff for somebody from a town like Narok was a big deal. That was success in itself. And again, if you remember, success in those days was you owned a home, your kids went to good schools, you drove a nice car, and we had all of that. But then there came points. And I always say.

It'S not been a smooth ride when it comes to my parents and their money, but they did everything they could do in order to provide. So there were times we had the brand new car because things were great, but we've also hit rock bottom. So the conflict was never dad. You're saying we have no money but you're driving the latest Range Rover. That wasn't the kind of conflict the conflict was. And the not having school fees that didn't tie where there was a brand new car in the garage. It was the seasons we found ourselves in. So my parents never put up a facade of we have all this but we can't make ends meet. It was more of we've done great, but there's some hard times that we have experienced.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Does that make sense?

[Barack]

Yes, it does.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So there was no curtain. There were no. There was no curtain on. On. On anything. It was the seasons of. Of what I saw money in our house look like.

[Barack]

I have an interesting question that may seem convoluted, but to me it makes sense. So I'll ask it.

So what.

What did you learn about money from your childhood and your. I mean your exposure to your parents, so to speak, that you have had to unlearn.

As an adult?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Loans. I have a fear for loans. I have seen loans destroy people.

At the point my dad had taken a mortgage.

So my dad was a transporter, but he also supplied. We had gas stations, but he was also a distributor of fuel for what was Esso and then became, at the time. By the time he was passing, became.

I would say oil. Libya. I can't. Mobile.

[Barack]

Mobile. Mobile, right. And which became Ola. Which is.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Which became Ola. So mobile at the time, about five years before he died, he had to take in a certain investment in order to have the kind of trucks they needed to transport fuel across the country. And so he took a mortgage on our house, as does everybody else. Right. You're trying to finance a business. You've got this asset that can help you get more money to grow your business and pay that loan off. Which he did. We. He took a substantial amount of money against the house and other things to fund these nine trucks that needed to be manufactured and not manufactured, but the body needed to be built in a certain way order to deliver the contract.

Did all of that stuff. And then he passed away.

And everything kind of just from there we couldn't meet the lone. Etc.

And then the man comes for your home. And that's what I saw. That was what I said I never wanted to do again. I pray to God that I never have to take a loan. And that's something I've been. Both my husband and I have been burnt by watching.

Someone, a family member or a parent take a loan. And for whatever reason you're not Able to meet it or the interest rate is way worse than you can actually sustain or whatever it is that happens. But we've seen that. And so for me, I think the biggest, the biggest takeout I've had is may never have to take a loan. And it's something I consciously do. If I can't afford it, we'd wait for the right time to have that money or. And if I have to take a loan, let it be from somebody that I can pay back in good time and return it when I'm supposed to. Yeah, yeah, but the loan, if you ask me, loans, no, yeah, that was the big takeout. I saw what that it destroyed us. Yeah, yeah.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

It did the right thing for the business. The timing was wrong and took us rock bottom.

[Barack]

What's the, I'm wondering like, if so even in, in that process of, of trying to meet those obligations, does it then create extra. Well, not extra, but.

Additional strife almost of. Now you're trying to figure out, okay, who has extra money to put in, you know, to try and meet these obligations. Are those the kind of conversations that begin to make it a bit more difficult or is it now getting to the point of, okay, we have to give up the home, the family home or the assets or what's the most difficult thing about it?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

We were lucky in the sense that the bank that I spoke to and let me give them a shout out was actually INM bank who my father taken the mortgage from. And I went and I saw.

I was 26 when my dad died and there was a lot of things I had to. I always say I was a child until my father died. Even as an adult because I, you know, still living in my parents house, I was enjoying life. The last five years of his life, I could see the financial struggles because the health was taking a toll. There were a lot more hospital bills and stuff, but I was still behaving like a party animal. And then he died one night and I realized I have to grow up. And growing up came with responsibility. As the only child here, the rest of my siblings were out of the country, either settled or working. So I was literally the only person around. And so I'll always say I grew up at Nairobi Hospital the night they pronounced him deceased. And with that then came the responsibility of all the things you need to do now to ensure your mother is fine. Because she was not a breadwinner anymore. She was unfortunately financially reliant completely on my dad. As much as my mother did.

Was in the business with my dad. Worked as much. She never gave herself financial independence. And I think the other money thing for me as a woman, that financially independent, even when I left my job three years ago and my husband said, you know, you can take a year off and just be. I was like.

No way. Financial independence. But going back to that story of having to grow up, you know, so back to I and M and just giving them the kudos was I walked into them and I into the bank. Luckily, got a meeting with Mr. Shah was very, very kind, extremely kind. I think most of any other bank would have said, we're coming for your money. We're coming for your house. It belongs to us. We've not made payments for six months. He was gracious enough, I explained to him. I showed him my pay slip. I said, you know, my, my, my. My mother owes you or our estate owes you 3.3 million shillings in 2002. There's a mortgage of 3.3 million shillings on our house. And he said to me, we won't come for your home.

Just tell me how you can pay the loan. We'll figure it out together. And I walked out, having saved the house.

And being heard by a man who understood that the decision he would take would either break or make my family. And he chose to allow us to go and fix things. And so we sold some land, paid them the money, and it was painful to sell part of the land we were on. It still pains me to this day, but it meant saving a larger portion. So those are some of the money decisions I had to take that kind of shaped my thinking around that. They're extremely kind people in this world. There are people who, if they hear your story, they'll give you a chance. At the same time, I know people who are monsters and will come the day my dad died, there were people who were at the door and they're like, pay up. I don't care how you gotta pay up. So I've seen all of that.

[Barack]

So.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, the loan thing, that thing just. I think it scarred me. And, and like I said, you know, blessed are those who don't have to look for it for a loan or have to rely or, you know, call somebody and say, hey, I can't. I need 25k. I can't pay rent this month. I. I get. I get these people who have been through that also. So I, I just wouldn't wish that on, on anyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That loon loan for me is.

[Barack]

Hey, it's a tough one.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

It's. It scarred me. Yeah. Let me say that.

[Barack]

Okay. So I want. I want to hear maybe a little bit about. Because I know you said your father's passing on at. When you're 26 and, you know, five years on, you can see things are. Are starting to deteriorate, so to speak. But I'm curious about your.

Your sort of late teenage into early 20s. What was life like at that point? What are you pursuing? You've talked about. Is that where most of your money is going?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. Yeah. So.

Finished here. I went to school. I didn't do A levels. I went one term of A level and I told my mom and dad, I don't. I was a bit of a trouble maker at home. I was. And when I tell this story, even to my team, they're like, hey, you can't even finish a glass of wine. What do you mean? You are a party animal. They can't, you know, know. It's a running joke. Even with my sisters the other day, they were saying, if we meet, the next time we meet up, we're bringing wine. They're like, zai, it's okay. We have your one glass waiting. Because I'll push that glass the whole night and never finish it. But in those days, my, my. So again, finished. And then I took a gap.

[Barack]

Where were you for your Brook house? I see.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, but not the Brookhouse, you know, today.

[Barack]

What was.

That? What's the difference?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

You know, the other day I went back to Brookhouse after. After many years, and I. I had seen it rebuilt into the castle, all that stuff, and I walked in and I was like.

Because this is not what we got. We had a small car. Dining hall. It was a big field. Our break was given to us in a small, I think the owner's home or something that was converted to the kitchen. But having said that, my Brookhouse days were the best days ever. My high school days.

[Barack]

Where was it in those days? Like, no, I mean, reading it Terms of.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I'd say medium. It wasn't. That's something. It's not like.

[Barack]

It wasn't like.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, it wasn't like helicopters arrived. It was medium tier.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Actually, let me tell you how I ended up in Brookhouse. Remember that thing of we couldn't pay school fees in Kilimani?

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

My mom had had it. So the next time they called and said, you're late with school fees, she said, let me do you a favor. I'm coming for my children myself. So my mom, in all her Russianness.

And if you watch my engage story, you'll see how my mother embarrassed us so many times. But I love it. And I do that to my kids today. So, you know, they say you'll become like your mother. That's me.

[Barack]

That's a really funny story, actually. Sorry. The one that you said. I don't know if you can see it. Yeah. The. The. About being picked up from the club. Yeah. I don't want.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I can tell you. I'll tell you that story. But my mom did many things where I was like, this one's going to ruin if I ever get married. By the grace of God. Not because my mother helped me look like I did. Social capital, but I remember my mom. And she would. In her really thick Russian accent, but also more than that, her just, you know, like, as a mom, you expect that softness. And you walk in and she's like, please come. My mom would stand at the door. So she stood. I will never forget when my mom pulled me out of Kilimani Junior Academy. It stays in my mind. And I'm like, I should do that to my kids just to remind them who's the boss. But she came to the door and she was standing like this, and she said, let's go. And I'm thinking, what has happened? And you don't think. Is everyone at home okay? I don't. I was in 1988. How old was I? I 75. Kid. Anyway, 1988. So I was 13. Yeah, 13.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So I'm thinking, wait, there's nothing wrong with me physically. Why are they pulling me? But my mom's like, let's go. She pulled me out of school. And then because they didn't want to drive around, we're told, find a school around here because we live near Bomas of Kenya. So the options were that Banda school. Sorry, yeah. Kilimani Banda. We've been pulled out of Kilimani. So it was Brookhouse, Banda, Hillcrest were the only schools we visited. I walked into Brookhouse. I said, this. My school is what I want to go. So that's how I ended up in Brookhouse. And I loved it. Brookhouse were the best years of my life. So I was there from 88 until I graduated in the early 90s. And then I left to take a gap year.

I really traumatized my parents because.

I won't go into details, but I was. I was that problem child.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Like, I live on a Friday, come.

[Barack]

Back the next morning, leave the house on a black Friday. Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

There are no mobile phones or anything. My weakness was dancing, so I'd Go to carnival was the place we used to call Saturday night Bombay night. So if you couldn't find me, you just know I'm at Carney. You'd find me there. But money. Funny enough, I didn't have money to party because now my parents are not going to find. I'm on a gap year. No one gives you a job, you know. So I would get my 300 bob. I think tiny entrance was 200. And I had enough for two drinks for the night, whatever it was. And that was my relationship with going out and money.

If I wanted more drinks like alcohol, they were bought for me.

By guys.

Yeah. But I didn't look for money to now go and drink my money.

[Barack]

Right?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I never drank my money. No. No. Not even today. Why? No. Nowadays my poisonous plants. The amount of money I spend on my garden. Yeah. I always tell my husband. So every time I walk in with a new plant, he looks at me on Sundays. By the way, if. If I live on my own, everyone knows this one is going to buy plants. So I tell my husband, pick a problem. Do you want me to come home with new bags and shoes or plants?

[Barack]

You decide.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, that's my. That's my new weakness. Plans.

[Barack]

Okay. So that's sort of what that period was like for you.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Really like that. And then one day my dad was just. He was fed up. So I rocked into the house at five in the morning and I found him waiting for me. He was a 5Amer. And I found him waiting. Most of the time he wasn't there. My. My dad lived in Kibwezi and then came. So let me tell you why. My life was really good. My mom was very liberal, so was my dad. But my dad was the discipline.

[Barack]

Disciplinarian.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

That word. Yes. But I knew my dad would leave on a Thursday, come back on Monday. So my wildness would happen on that Thursday to Monday. Because mother said nothing.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I never expected to come home on a Saturday morning or Sunday morning early at 5 and find my mother waiting for me. That had never happened. So my mom opened the door and went straight to the room. Like even her, she was in big trouble.

[Barack]

Because like what are you looking at?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

These are things that have not. I mean he knew, he just thought it was being managed. But I walk in and I find my father in the living room. I'm like okay. And my dad and mom never got upset. We were never yelled at. I've never heard my parents yell ever. We were not a shouting house. My. I've never. But if My dad got angry. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We. You knew that.

[Barack]

So you. How would you feel? It is just the presence.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

The presence. My mom was a little. My mom was vocal. One time she wanted to discipline my brother, but because I always told her, you love him more than me. Instead of going getting him with the frying pan, she knocked me. She was so frustrated with him, but decided those are stories for another day. But yeah. And he sat me down and he said, this life, this wildness. Kantwa, you know you've been out of school? We're now in August. I've been out of of school since April. It can't work. So you're gonna go. You're gonna go and go to the US with your sister. I was violently opposed. I refused. I even went to the American embassy and tried to talk nonsense like, if you don't want to give me the visa, don't give me the visa. I was being told you need to. I was really. I really tortured my parents for that. But then I went to the U.S. i went to community college for about a year. And then I was very clear that I wanted to be in ever since I was little. They had one PE teacher in Brookhouse that I really liked. I don't remember her name, but I remember how she smelled so good. And I just thought, can't be like her and be a PE teacher. So that's what I went to the US to do, was to learn. And so I did kinesiology. And that was my degree. Yeah. And then I came back home after five years of doing my degree. I specialized in geriatric and post surgery care, which was very exciting for my father because now at least this rogue human has a degree, right? Is stable. I grew up. I grew up. Even when I went to the U.S. i grew up. Let me say that also. So I stopped that alcohol nonsense. Etc, I went to the US My father only paid school fees. If my sister and I wanted anything more, makeup, la la, holidays, all that stuff. He said, you work. I got a job. I matured. So when I left the U.S. i matured a lot. Up until that. I was just childish.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

As you are. I'm 16. I left home at 17.

So then. Yeah, so I'd come back home for holidays. I had my money that I'd made from working party with my friends in the. Going to Costa was a must do. We'd go, but I was paying for it for myself. I was a little bit broke. My dad would help me. So that's how School life looked like. And then I came back with this beautiful degree in hand. But there's no job market for me other than working in a gym. Yeah, because kinesiology, which is sports science wasn't nobody was. Every if I went to the hospital I applied in Nairobi Hospital, they said to me, other than physiotherapy, which you don't have qualifications for, we can't see what you can do here. Etc. So one Sunday I was driving around in Riverside and I dropped my CV off at a gym that was being run by a gentleman down the road from here. And on Monday he called me in for an interview and then gave me a job as a gym manager which I did for about seven months. But then I burnt out.

Because my shift started at 5 in the morning and I knew I'm supposed to finish at two but he would keep me there hours, hours. So I just started hating the job and in turn hating what I had done. And then I came home and I told my dad, I don't want to do this anymore. I said you're gonna stick it out because that's how you're gonna learn about the value of money and work. And so I was earning. What was I earning? I was earning 17000 at that time of which my employer would take out 9k for fuel.

[Barack]

He would take it out.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So I'd get, I'd be left with less than God. I think I was left with maybe 8K. Yeah, yeah, that was that. Money was, money was funding my lifestyle. I didn't have, you know, I didn't have real responsibilities of I have rent, I want to move out of my parents house from that perspective I didn't have the roof over the head kind of situation where I had to worry about. So really the money I was bringing home every month was to enjoy life.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So that's how it was.

[Barack]

Okay, there's something I want to ask you around. The distinction of, of the two ways you've used to describe effectively growing up is you said when you went to the States, because of what you need to do, you know, to fund certain elements of your lifestyle, you matured. Whereas at 26, you said when you're, when your father unfortunately passed on, you grew up overnight.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

What, what's the distinction between maturing and growing up for you?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So you know what makes the difference? Yeah, there was a seasons my life in the US I was funding it for the things I wanted. It wasn't. I wasn't gonna be hungry or I wasn't Obviously my dad, you know, parents, they sent you to university. They're not going to be like kind of thing. That wasn't it. I was funding the life I wanted. And so I knew if I wanted a new perfume, I better put in the hours at work so that I can buy that perfume. If I wanted to go on a spring break holiday with my friends, it was going to cost $300. We put in extra hours in the cafeteria where I worked. Then I know I'm funding. So from that I matured from a money perspective. The growing up was. I became responsible in a way that was not money alone. It was almost like I knew I was taking over from my father, having been the only child here, knowing. Knowing the kind of space my mom was in. So one was maturity around money, and the other thing was becoming an adult from a responsibility factor.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Makes sense.

[Barack]

Makes sense. Yes, it does. Okay, so what's the next thing that happens for your money journey after. At 26, after the I and M situation, what's the next thing that happens for your money journey? What are you doing to pursue money?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So I worked at Ginodin, which is where I left after I quit the gym. Gym job. And I loved it. I was at the PR firm. PR firm. Ginoden Corporate Communications.

Beautiful setting, family. Gina was a fantastic boss. It's. Imagine doing work with a family you've chosen.

[Barack]

What was a crossover difficult or was it because of the connection? And I mean, moving from not having any PR experience or qualifications and getting into a PR firm, you know, I.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Walked in.

Completely green. I'd never done this in a day in my life. I've not even studied. I've not done marketing. I've not done PR anything. My. My story with ginadine was very interesting, but when I was still working for the gym, I had taken leave to kind of. I had a month's leave. So I was taken a leave, month off to just kind of figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And. And when you're on leave at that age, you don't sit idle. I wasn't spending money. Remember, my father was unwell. I wasn't. Now money was a. Was no longer funding a lifestyle, was making ends meet. So. But I. I remember saying to Gina Din, who I met, I said to her, you know, I'm off for a month. Can I come and do something with you guys? I don't want to stay at home. I really have nothing to do. All my friends were either in university, back or back, wherever they were or in school or working, working. So I was always at home alone. So she said, yeah, sure. We are working on a big project, the relaunch of Safaricom. Do you want to be part of the team that works on that? And I said, I'd love to. So my first gig actually was 25 years ago on the night of 23rd of October, where Safaricom launched at Carnivore. So that was like the first kind of.

Exposure to this industry that I never even thought existed. I never heard of events, I just thought they happen, right? And so I was given gate duty. I was at the gate, I remember I dressed up and I'll never forget, I doddled up, wore high heels. Somebody should have told me. And by them wearing trainers, even today, this life of us is not for high heels. But I remember standing at the gate and. And it excited me. I loved it. I was just watching this ecosystem and so I stuck around. We did that, we did projects in Madari, you know, Kibera, all the stuff Safaricom did in say the first month of relaunching. And I really liked it. So when we finished that launch, I went to Ginadin and I said to her, as you would please, can you help me get a job at Safaricom? I'll even go and do customer care. And she said, no, why don't you stay and work at Junadin? And I said, oh, I'd love that. So I got offered a job and I kind of learned on the job. I started off quite.

Almost, you want to set an intern kind of space. But then I got employed and then kind of over the past 25 years have been learning on the job. Obviously there's. I then went and did master classes in pr, kind of self taught, but never went back to formal school per se to say that I need a marketing degree in order to say I know how to do this job. So that's how that transition happened.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Then about three years later, I got offered a position as events coordinator at Safaricom. Okay. And took up that offer. And that's my transition into something called space.

[Barack]

Okay. Do you remember what you were making at Jenadin and what your offer was as? Well, when you're getting into yes, do.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

You want the numbers?

[Barack]

Yes, I do. Well, they do.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

They do, yes. At the time.

If I remember correctly, 27000 was my take home, take home.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And then I did my interview in Safari coming in December and I didn't get my offer until about a few days later. But when the offer came, my base salary was 65000 shillings.

And then I got a fuel allowance of 55000 shillings.

[Barack]

Of 55.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. That then took me to almost three, four times over.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I remember looking at this and thinking and I didn't want to move by the way I loved my job at Ginna Din. It was a real struggle. I cried. I cried quite a bit before move and actually one of the big deciding factors for me to moving aside from moving to Safaricom which was such a. So I lucked out big time. I lucked out with Gina Din and I lucked out with Safaricom that I was working in two of the most beautiful spaces that somebody in my industry would want to work. Imagine saying you've got to start with Ginodine and then you've gone to do this for Safaricom.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And Safaricom, the most beautiful thing was we were never given limits about what you can do. Not money wise but innovation, creative. I would come back and say I want to do Chapadimbe. No one would say don't do it, just deliver it, but do it. We were so that was beautiful. But yeah. So the transition, the moving had the biggest decision there was financial because by the time I moved to Safaricom in 2004, my father had passed on in 2002. So now the financial burden was me on me and my siblings, two of them who are still in school, one had just moved into another country. So we were not as cash ready as we needed to be to my mom's medicines for example, all those kind of things. So moving to Safaricom a big driver of it was financial obviously the job opportunity, even if it was not financial. I wasn't gonna say no.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

But the financial definitely helped and actually changed my position from being able to just get that lift I needed in order to ensure that we were able to make ends meet.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Okay. Remember I've got banks, I've got all these people who are now after my father passing.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Not like we were awfully in debt or anything but when your house is up for a mortgage and now your whole business is on a standstill. So interestingly, another interesting thing is when I was still at Ginodine when my father died, everybody else in my family, not my direct family, not me and my siblings, we all worked. But everybody else in our ecosystem was self employed in the family business. You're in the trucking business that has different branches to it. So there was Dalian company K Crook those roots does all family owned businesses. Everybody was in that and so when my dad passed, I remember my cousin who was the administrator of my father's will came and said to me, do you want to continue working or do you want to come and run your dad's business?

I remember earlier I told you I never thought I was born to be a business owner. Me, I thought you're going to work, to work. And I chose work. I loved what I did. I couldn't imagine waking up and having to be called at 3 in the morning that a truck has broken down in Masai Mara. Where am I gonna start fixing those problems? OCG fueling Kibwezi has run out. Come and replenish or Samburu. The Serena in Samburu needs more fuel as like that's not the lifestyle for me. So I chose to continue working which is another I guess financial per se decision I took that I thought suited me and no regrets, I think. Yeah, for me, I think the decisions I've taken have worked extremely well. Okay. Yeah.

[Barack]

So you end up working at Safaricom for. Let me see if I can do the math.

So you left. You left.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I joined Safaricom 2004.

[Barack]

2004.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Okay.

[Barack]

But okay, now I know because I know you said your business is three years old. So it's just, just at what, 20.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Just about 20.

[Barack]

Just about 20 years.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Okay, 23 in the whole ecosystem. So three years. Right. Finishing just about 20 years when I was leaving.

[Barack]

Okay, yeah. So I want to talk about what this 20, 20, 20 years, 20 odd years are like from growing yourself in the corporate structure, both from a career perspective and a money perspective. If you were to like trace back and try and be like try and find for me what key, whether you want to call the markers or key milestones that you hit in these 20 years because by the time you, you were leaving, you end up, you end up with the title of. I remember what it was. But it's a very senior head of brand. Right. Which is, which is not a.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

It's a senior position.

[Barack]

Yeah, very senior position at Safaricom. So if you are to map out that journey with like the key milestones that you hit that allow you to be able to grow to get into this position and to the level that you can share, what are the financial rewards as well that you know?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Sure. First, let me say the biggest money lesson.

And probably the biggest, the, the one thing I'm most grateful for from a money perspective was a friend of mine, my bestie Christine, who I worked with at Ginodine while I was still at Ginodin by the I'm a shopaholic. I really am. Yeah. Even at that time, when I'd get my money, I'd go to the next catalog.

Captain Karaoke. Gina's husband used to fly to London a lot. So me, I was always like, buy me this, bring me this, buy me that. So one day Christine called me. She was Gina's P and she sat me down and she said, you know, with your dad being unwell and you having to look after mom.

You need to be a little bit more savvy with your money. It's great you've got this money, you're doing well with it, you have your responsibilities that I do what I needed to do and then what was left, I was always looking for things to do with. Saving was never an option. Right. Because me, I was still enjoying life, whereas I've had to grow up and have a mature relationship with money. I'm still, remember, 24, 25. I still want nice things. Right. Everybody does. So she sat me down and she said, you really need to open a savings. Do you have a savings account? And I was like, no, I just have my current checking account at Stanchat. And she said, no, no, no, get in the car. And she put me in the car, took me to the bank. We went to Stanbic and she, I think was done. No, not standby at the time, I can't remember. And she said, go and open a savings account. And she said, in the savings account, every month you're going to to put a certain amount of money non negotiable. And if you're not disciplined, I will take your money and I'll do it. So I, to this day, and I spoke to the other day and I said with that one moment in life is what my relationship with money changed from.

Securing my money versus seeing it as just something else I'm doing. And so that was probably the biggest thing that changed my relationship with money, which was, remember, other things with money have been things that have happened to me.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Right up until this point, my dad has died or.

All those things. But the conscious decision of what I'm doing with my money came at that moment right where Christine said, get in the car, open. And it was a nice to put away 5k a month. It's not a lot of money, but it made a really big difference a little later on in life when I had to find money for a certain emergency I had. And had I not done that, I don't know where I was gonna. I'd have to take a loan, borrow money, etc, so from that perspective to this day, what is non negotiable is that there's certain things that must happen every month before something else can happen with money. And that's where my discipline with money came about was that there's certain foundations that must never be messed around with. So every month.

There must be a certain amount of money that you're putting that I have to put aside. That is a habit I've had since 2004. I will continue it even as I'm an old lady with my cats somewhere I will put away. Yeah, yeah. I think that for me was the one lesson of soup. It seems like a small one, but it was. It has helped me a lot in the sense that even today.

Being able to even walk out and say I want to buy a new phone has come from the discipline of there's certain things that must happen every month in order for you to be financially free.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

In the long term.

[Barack]

Yeah. Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

[Barack]

So you start working at Safaricom.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

How exciting was that for you at the time?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Safaricom, I don't think I stopped being excited because at Ginodine I was assigned to Safaricom almost in a full time position. So what changed was literally my paycheck.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

But every other day for that one year prior I was actually reporting to Ginodine on Monday mornings there. But then the rest of the week the contract with Safaricom was that I would be working from there.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

The reason I got, or rather the my position at Safaricom that I transitioned into was created because the Safaricom foundation was, was being launched and therefore they wanted an events coordinator to look after the sponsorship marketing side as the foundation took off. So that's the role I went into. So dream job till today. Like I always tell people what I did in Ginadine and Safaricom for 20 years. 25 years or 25. Let's say the 20 years is what it would take four or five job changes in my industry. I did things I think are just amazing from a, from a brand experience perspective. Somebody once said to me that I lacked ambition because I worked for Safaricom for so long that why didn't I change jobs and people who are stagnant in one job are not thinkers, etc. But had I left Safaricom to even go and try and do this for another brand, I probably would never have done the kind of things or grown the way I did working in Safaricom doing the kind of things we did.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Especially, or rather actually in my field in brand experience, where you're looking after you're doing this event today you're doing that event, tomorrow, you're doing this kind of media. Today you're doing that media. It was just, it was. It's a dream.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Even today.

[Barack]

What are the three. Three projects or three. Yeah, let me call projects that you're most proud of that you did within those 20 years at Safaricom.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

There are many.

[Barack]

Yeah. Top three. Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Like asking a woman which is their favorite handbag.

[Barack]

I'm sure this is one.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Hey. There are many. Ah.

[Barack]

Or okay, if not favorite, most pivotal. Like the ones where after this event, something changes in your career. Whether it's a promotion, whether it's, I don't know, money, whether it's.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

There were many, but I think the first one that kind of.

Was big, had never been done before was Nikona Safaricom Live where we were doing this countrywide tour. But what was very exciting was obviously the investment in the creative industry, etc, which I was very passionate about. Remain it so today working on projects like Soulfest, etc. It's just stuff that I love doing. So talking about Nikona Safaricom Live was countrywide tour with all these artists. But more importantly, producing a show on stage that was live. We were not doing Playback. Remember, a lot of our artists in those days were dj, Run, etc, Playback. This was. We were rehearsing every single day, six, seven months, dancers, all those kind of things. Just being able to step back and look at the impact it had in the industry.

Working with, you know, some of the best artists in the country. And we did, I, we, we did amazing stuff. So for me, as an individual who had put this on paper.

And kind of.

[Barack]

Yeah, actually. How did it come about? How did it come about?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So it actually started as Kenya Live, which I didn't manage. A colleague of mine managed Kenya Live and I think it came from again, investing in the creative industry. The world was, you know, a lot of tours and stuff in the world were really based around live music. Etc. Why couldn't Safari come then invest in that creative where a lot of artists wanted to have bands and stuff, but just couldn't afford to do it. You know, you're barely. You tell a client your costs are 200k, people are like, I'm not paying you 200k, you're only worth 50k. But you're trying to explain you have a band, you've got to pay your band, rehearsals, backlight, all those things. No one's buying into it. But here's a brand telling you, we will put you on stage, got up your band, rehearsals, backlight, all those things. No one's buying into it, but here's a brand telling you we will put you on stage. Obviously we were also benefiting from a brand perspective, but, but that's where it came from. I think the desire to do something different and to invest in the creative industry was probably the biggest thing. But also music, two things. Kenyans love two things, sport and music. Those are the two. If you ask Whether it's an 18 year old or whether it's a 50 or 65 year old, the two biggest passion points in Kenya research proven is music and sports. And so taking that those two properties and creating a brand asset out of them was my job and the larger marketing team. So under music we had Nikona, Safaricom Live, we had Classical Fusion. In sports, we had the Safaricom aesthetic series, Safari Sevens, many different things. So taking Kenyan passion points, things we love, and kind of packaging them into a brand asset that can deliver both return on, objective return on investment. So really putting what you've put on PowerPoint and seeing it come to life was a big.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Achievement at that time. That was the first one.

[Barack]

I have a question on the return of investment. Right. How. Because when I will ask you how much did it cost to execute this project? And then secondly, because there's a lot of questions around return of investment in the creative industry and whether it is possible to actually get a significant return. So for you, who's sitting at the intersection of both sort of the creative industry and dabbling on the corporate side and the money side of things as well, how were you able to justify whatever figure it is that you, you know, you guys were spending to execute this project?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Interestingly, with projects like Safaricom, Nikona, Safaricom or Chapadimba, they were not about bringing the money back to Safaricom. It was growing brand equity, brand love, brand consideration, all those things. And that delivered it because again, you're, you're doing things that communities love, the creative industries also at one point Safaricom was the biggest investor in the country in sport and music. And so that helped people love the brand. You know, somebody Michael Joseph once told me, build the brand, the business will follow. And so our focus was around giving back to Kenyans in the biggest way possible, no matter how big and small and people will love you and buy your product. And it happened. The revenue came up, came in anyway. So it was never that. We spent 200 million shillings on Nikona Safari Come live. Where is it? We knew it was going to come back over a period of time. But interestingly, a KPI that we were not necessarily chasing but came about as a result was there's something called arpu average revenue per user that we were. We were measuring through things like sale of airtime and stuff. If we're going to Kisumu over the two week period, you as you as a consumer who's been buying 100 chilling airtime up until then, the two weeks we were there, because of your interaction with the brand, you were coming to the shop to meet Saudi Soul, you'd buy more airtime or you'd come to the concert and as a result you're topping up. Because we found that the user started buying in that period instead of 100 Bob moved to using 525 shillings worth of airtime. So somehow the money was coming back. And you know where else it came back and actually made the business a lot of money was skisatunes.

Because when Kina Jaguar and size 8 get on stage, they were also pushing. You can get this song on skizza, Download it today. Star811/ hash I think. And then Skisa revenue started growing and so Nikona made back its money without ever being a. Not that somebody wasn't tracking it, but I was not being held to. You not return the money. Actually your KPIs are. Is brand love growing? Is consideration growing? And then somebody in finance was like, hey, bring this property back a second year. Cause.

[Barack]

So do you think, and this is more like from your expertise and.

Sort of professional capacity that I'm asking this, do you think that sometimes it's that corporate brands don't know what to measure to track their investment for brand.

Consideration or brand spending. So because I don't know what to measure, it's difficult for me to justify spending 200 million or 100 million or even 1 million shillings on a creative asset. Even though I know I will get it back somehow. But I don't know what to look at and so I won't spend it at all.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

There is that factor, but the more dangerous factor is you want your returns immediately.

You think by doing a one month tour by next month my brand KPIs better be more love is. Nobody falls in love overnight. Even the ones who say love.

Is blind. But I struggle when. I struggle when brands even in my job today are like, okay, so when are we going to see results? Actually these things take time. So if you come back and in one month you're expecting these KPIs to be knocking it out of the park then, you know, I always tell brands, just give yourself a little bit of time because it's an investment. But I see a mixture of both. I've seen brands that are forgetting to look at brand equity as a really strong measure to where your brand is and the fact that it can dry can be a revenue driver. I've seen guys track only revenue. I forget brand equity or track only brand equity. And then there's this side that could be driving revenue. We did an event for a client last year. It was a cocktail where they invited all the banks and distributors and all the people that they've been trying to. They were kind of relaunching their brand. And the nicest thing they said to us after the event about three months later is that that night they invited people with a hope that they would buy into their brand. And so as a result of that evening, three banks signed with them. And so for me, when somebody comes back and says, hey, it was a, you know, it is a KPI that we hope that this bank is going to use us as a payment platform or will sign up with us. But it's great that as a result of the brand activity or the brand experience we've invested in that we've been able to sign up and see revenue as a way, you know, revenue is a focus for them. But the brands that I think are winning today are saying, okay, how are you bringing brand moments, brand equity as a key deliverable or an enabler to, to revenue?

I'm a big believer of invest in your brand, spend on your brand and people will buy into it. And buying into it isn't necessarily, it's not a cold relationship of some brands. Yeah. I mean, I'll walk in and I, I will buy it because it's a necessity. But a lot of the, a lot of the consumers today are emotional buying. We have choice. What network I choose is firstly driven by will you do what you're supposed to do for me? Secondly is what else are you doing that helps me love you more? And if I love you, then it's very difficult for me to go and pick another brand over you. So it's really that brands that are balancing the two and saying, I'm investing with an understanding that if I spend here, I may not see the immediate returns, but they will come as a result of Those brand equity KPIs, I think. Win, win.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

[Barack]

All right. That's the first event or the first or the first one. Yeah.

And so was it 200 million?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

[Barack]

It was, it was the. Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Which in 2012.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

A lot of money.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Even for someone like me to have that kind of money on a budget.

[Barack]

Line at that actually. How, how, how much experience did you have in the industry when you were budget, when you were in control of a 200 million shilling budget?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Experience in terms of money or.

[Barack]

No, I mean in terms of like career.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

No, I was solid.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Nobody gives you money if you're lucky, even corporate. It's not gonna give me money.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, I was solid. I was good for the money. Yeah, we were delivering. My team and I were delivering over and over again. And when we made mistakes, we put up our hands and said the thing I love most about Safaricom and especially working under people like Michael Joseph and Bob Colimo was that they forgave you for the mistakes. And actually you were encouraged to make mistakes in order to grow.

[Barack]

But yeah, tell me about a mistake you made before we go to the second thing.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Hey, wait.

[Barack]

The one that you can share. Not one that's catastrophic, but one that you can share.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. It was in Lewa for the Safarico Marathon and we picked a supplier for the camp, for the campus. I ferry come and invited our guests that.

We had used them before. They'd never let us down. But in this incident, I think they took on the work and just was stretched and therefore couldn't deliver to us. So on Friday night, dinner was a mess. The whole weekend was just a mess. It was really bad.

And I just, I knew that's it, I'm going home.

[Barack]

Like in New York.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I was like, I'm going home. But it wasn't, I didn't make a mistake. Like you've made a drastic mistake. It was.

But the responsibility is mine. And I couldn't stand there and start saying that the suppliers let me down. I don't, I don't do that. I think we die, we die together because I chose you. Yeah, right. I chose you. I should be able to stand for you. And I think that's really important is.

I think the biggest quality is it's great when everything's nice, but how are you when things are failing? So I, I, I even went to the kitchen and started peeling potatoes with them. That's how bad it was. Not that day, that weekend. Oh, like, have you ever. I was smelling of moshi because I was preparing them. Like, cook the food, do something. I need to survive. Yeah, there's the ministers here, the CEOs of companies are here.

[Barack]

They probably didn't describe bad for Me? Yeah, like it was bad.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

It was bad in the sense that imagine.

Imagine you hire a wedding plan and nothing goes right on your wedding day. She'll swallow that wedding plan. So me, I. I can't even describe it because it was happening. And my. I think my, my, my, my soul was standing watching this thing happened. And I was like, I'm dumb, but it was bad. It was just the wrong weekend. It's not. If it was in Nairobi, you pause and you say change location or call in a caterer. We're in the bush. There's no. I've had an event by the man. It's make you guys laugh at the Safaricom HQ2. So not HQ1. Sorry. So there's the SEC, which is the building where Safaricom first was. Then we built a new building, HQ1. And we had the launch of HQ1 with 150 guests. And at the time we had the President etc come and launch it. And while the event was going on, Serena had set out the food.

But all the security guys went and finished the food, which was for the guests.

So Nairobi is a great thing. I thank God we're in Nairobi because somebody texts and says, can you please come quickly to the cafeteria? It's an emergency. And I'm like, I can't. The event is going on. I cannot leave where the president is seated there. Like, like, we have a crisis. Come now. So I sneak out and I go and the event person in my team and the Serena team are like, the food's finished. I'm like, what do you mean the food's finished? We hadn't catered for the other. And it's a great lesson, but we hadn't quite anticipated that we would have a whole entourage of security and drivers and stuff who also needed to be fed all that stuff. But good learning. But sounds like, so what are we going to do? And Serena said, well, we'll get you more food. You just need to approve the budget. And I was like, yeah, you just go get the food. So, yeah, we rest. No one knew because Serena went and within the next hour, I said, we have an hour of. By the time the president cuts the ribbon and goes upstairs and meets. Does his tour. We have an hour. Yeah, so you have time. They said, don't worry, we'll bring it. But Lewa, who you're calling. I'm not calling anybody in Lewa. It was just you, your potatoes and your jiko. So that's how that was. That was. Yeah. You know, and, and hey, as much as Michael Joseph was trying to be a forgiving boss. Even he was under a lot of pressure. So I took myself to his office on Monday morning thinking I'm going to be fired. And he said, why would I fire you? It's a mistake. We learned from it.

[Barack]

Did you actually tell him, are you, did you ask him, are you going to fire.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I walked in just by his face. I was like, like, I know I've really messed up. Are you going to fire me?

He's a really good boss. And he said, he did. He, he, he gave me some good words about things and really good learnings. And then funny enough, we continued using the same company after that and we wouldn't change them ever again. Best guys ever. It was just a bad year. Yeah, it was a bad one moment that no one was punished for. But good lessons. But if you ask me, that weekend still plays in my head. So what it taught me is backup plan, backup plan, backup plan. 100 like, I can't tell you the wild weekend that was and not the world. That's nice. The world. Like yeah, yeah, that was crazy. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[Barack]

So what's, what's another event? You can tell us. Well, another thing that's happening in your, in, in this 20 year career at Safaricom, what's the next big event or big, big thing that you do? Because now we've talked about the Safaricom Live. Yeah, yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

There's so many. I mean like I said, there was the, just the.

The ones that I personally felt very connected to because of whether it was children that we got to interact with that never would have had those kind of opportunities. So for example, Chapadimba, which is a football.

League that we started that still goes on to this day. Just being able to go across Kenya and see 33, 000 children take plus take part in this league and then bring these guys to Nairobi and they win. And then you're with them in London and they get to meet Victor when Yama in Tottenham and you're thinking, which job in the world lets you do this? Which, where do you bring a, you know, a refugee child in Pocot is now coming to Nairobi to play football and is being picked up by teams. A lot of the kids from Chapadimba went on to play for Tusca fc. I think eight of our girls went on to play for Harambe Stars. Two of them scored goals that won Uganda versus Kenya. So just seeing that for me was really, for me it was really playing back to what we signed up to do in Safaricom. Which was to transform lives.

[Barack]

Yeah. And so as all of these things.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Another one.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

My third one.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

They tie in was the impact a music property like jazz had. You know, jazz was seen as something Bob Coldimo liked and therefore we're doing it. And that's what the perception even internally was like. Oh, okay. By the. Every CEO has a thing they like don't let any. Whether it's me in my current position as a CEO and the things I like asking do they'll tell you za we have to do sometimes go and eat this because that's that's favorite. Every CEO in every company has, whether it's golf or music or sijui, what rally that happens. Your job as the brand person is to turn that into either a profit maker or a brand equity driver for the company. And that's what we did. If Michael Joseph or whoever liked classical music, how do we turn that into a positive thing for the brand? And I think that's what's important is.

What are those things we can do in order to they exist? How do you turn it as a benefit to the brand? So that was jazz for me where I heard very early on the onset, oh, you guys are just doing this because Bob likes jazz. Yeah. Actually.

Where'S the problem? Yeah, you know.

[Barack]

So how did you turn it into. Into a.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So the first thing was democratizing the ticket price to be something Kenyans can afford. We brought the tickets down to remember jazz was very niche. The assumption was that only 2000 people in Nairobi could would come to jazz. Remember, jazz was played in intercontinent and the tickets were seen a little bit higher than usual. And not because the person's trying to make money, but there are costs that you're not seeing if you're not being sponsored by a corporate even today for you to run a jazz festival, unless you have really good partners who are willing to cut not cut costs, but give you discounts and spots and stuff, you're not going to run that thing well. But anyway, that's a story for another day. But I think the first thing was bring bringing world class acts in. So people we brought in David Sanborn, Marcus Miller, we brought in Branford Marcellus, people that I was seeing on TV that I never imagined we were ever going to bring across.

So one bringing that genre of music and making it a genre that's affordable, that people love but don't have access to was a big turning point in jazz. And then bringing a Grammy winning artist and a ticket is 1500. Bob, that was what was the game changer in Jazz? And so in the first one, I remember we held it at the racecourse in February. Bob said to me, how many people do you think will come? I said, we'll be lucky if we get 1500.

We had 11,000 people.

[Barack]

11,000 the first one.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, 11,000. And grew from. We were consistently at that. And again, using the power of what Kenyans love and turning it into something positive for the brand and. And also making sure that people understood that this is for you. You know, Safaricom never made back its money from Jazz. If you were to look at this.

[Barack]

If you look at purely the numbers.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Purely this spend.

[Barack]

No, it lost.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

But brand equity.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Creative industry growth, all those things. Those are the numbers we were tracking. Yeah, those are. Those are the game changers.

[Barack]

Okay. All right. So we've gotten quite a bit about the corporate side and how, you know, things are going.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So much about my previous life, I'm almost like.

[Barack]

What'S. What's happening on the personal life? How is your personal finances growing? How is that happening? What's the earning structure that you're getting into now? What does that look like?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I meet the love of my life in 2020.

[Barack]

The love of your life?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Barack]

What defines. What's the definition of the love of your life?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

For me right now, yes.

No, I'm joking.

I've been with my husband 20 years, but I met him in 2005 and we were on the same wavelength. Very much the same kind of.

This Seasons of finance. He had also gone through it. So when we met each other, we were broke as heck.

[Barack]

It wasn't trauma bonding. I hear about trauma bonding.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

No, no, no, no. Trauma bonding. Actually, we. And we still have a lot of fun in that way. I said that I love lucked out as he did with each other, but no, we were. Luckily for us when we met, financial wasn't a driver of why we were together. And I say this really carefully because he was a bread winner in his home, responsible for his mom and sister, and was working to make ends meet. And on this other hand, I have siblings as well. They're not around and I'm holding a more responsibility than they are, though they were. I have fantastic siblings have gone through this journey because I have sisters and a brother who didn't allow none of us allowed the other to fail. Whoever could come through with whatever they could did so.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And there's no regrets there. So I think we both.

Met each other on a wavelength where we both understood where we were in Each other's lives. And so from a financial perspective, we always laugh. I think he had this amount in his. And actually our first date was in Pizza Inn. Was it in Pizza Inn? Was here in Epic Center. And it was a pizza that cost 700 bob. And I can still taste it because it was really horrible.

And I remember when I got home, first date, I removed my thousand shillings and I left it in his car.

Because I was like, ain't no man paying my bills.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So the next day he called me and he said, why did you leave money in the car? And I said to him, I. I'm paying for my dinner. And he said, no, I took you out on a date. But money has always been for me. And. And when you talk about turning pointers.

We'Ve always been an equal household. He wanted that from me and I wanted that for myself. And so that. That's from a money perspective. That's something. And even when I chose to leave Safaricom, my own business, my commitment to. As much as we made some adjustments at home to be able to remember me, I've been salary. Remember that thing off camera when I was telling you.

[Barack]

You'll say it now.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I'll say it.

But yeah, no, just, you know, from a financial perspective, having a partner that is as committed as you are to making sure that finance is not a. A bad word in the house, is not a punishment, is an equal factor. Whether it's the decisions around. At some point I was also even earning more than my husband. But that never bothered him. What it was was that he still punched at the level of equal contributing the house. He did. He does what he needs to do, I do what I need to do. And I think that has kept our marriage solid. It's kept our finances solid. So that's one of the probably, I'd say when you talk about, I mean, Safaricom, I'm working. What does money at home look like? Remember now there's this human, this external human I've allowed into my life, into me and my mom's life that yes. Has now come in. And now we're gonna. We've chosen to be together, whereas it doesn't sound like financially does. But if you don't pick a partner that is on the financial wavelength that you and you want to spend the rest of their life. Like, imagine marrying somebody who's just spending all the money you're making. Yeah. Something's gonna break. What will break first is the money, then your relationship. So that's been a. I wouldn't Say a turning point, but a grounding factor, right? I would say. But look, let's. Let's talk about then. What did money look like? Remember Christine and that discipline she installed in me? That's. The.

Money is no longer a worry. It's. I now have money to do those basic things I must do. Luckily we still had a home, so I didn't have rent to worry about.

But I had a car. Let me talk about this car. Oh my goodness. I kept my dad's Isuzu Trooper. And I need to tell you guys this story. My dad had an Isuzu Trooper that he loved and took him across Kenya from the Mara to Samburu to Kibwezi to Mombasa where he worked 8. Took my dad everywhere. The night my dad died. Suzuki that Isuzu died with him next morning. Just won't start. It just didn't start that damn thing. And that's the only car we have. And now me and this is this Isuzu. I don't have a car. My dad's carbonating with this thing.

Remember I'm a ginodine.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I live in Langata near Bomas.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And my workstation is here at Safaricom near Sarit.

[Barack]

Right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Ask me how much fuel was one trip in that Isuzu? There's no boat. And at that time, and at that.

[Barack]

Time in 2000, that I feel was still.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. You know, not even fuel, you know, now today if I wanted to come here for this, I would pay an uber guy maybe 540. That didn't exist a taxi from Bomas in those days. Somebody wants a G. Hey, am I gonna eat? Am I gonna pay a taxi fee? Yeah. Anyway, so my fuel just to. To get to Safaricom is 500 bob one way.

[Barack]

So you're doing a thousand a day trying to get there for 20 days. That's 20.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

No, no, full time. Part of my recovery from my dad was I worked. I found everything. Every my escape from reality was work. The amount of hours I put into work.

[Barack]

So you'd work seven days a week.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

If there was a gig. If somebody needed to go to Mombasa to set up a Mombasa show, it was you. We're going to Kamal Derby for Maral New York. And why again? One, to keep myself busy. Number two, to call a per diem. Yeah, money.

So that's what I did. So that was the other thing. So yes, now you're working for Safaricom. You've got more money coming in obviously. So there were some non negotiables but remember now I've got a mom. I've got to pay certain things at home, etc, so.

[Barack]

And are you investing in anything at this point beyond other than. Other than the savings?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Zero investment. Happy? No. First of all, there was no. Unfortunately I didn't have the. The education around investment. My dad did buy shares and stuff. But.

Investment, child policies, all those things came along in 2007 when my daughter was born. Actually, no, let me rewind. My first shares that I ever bought. Safaricom shares. During the ipo.

Everyone was buying shares.

[Barack]

Yes. I took a look to buy the shares. Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I'm whispering. Remember that thing I told you about? Yes, but you would be a fool not to. So Equity bank came to us as Safaricom staff. And we were given a certain amount of loan based on your salary per month it was deducted. So for me I felt safe. I took my shares. I took as many shares as was allowed at the time. As an employee, I took a loan from Equity and then serviced that loan over the next few years. Which was comfortable because I had a job and I knew risky, but I was okay. I still have those shares. I'm a die hard. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for them to get to like 50.

[Barack]

How much are they. How much are they worth? How much have they x'd now?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I bought them at, I think it was five shillings when the bell rang. At the time, they're currently at 27 if I checked yesterday. So yeah, it's not bad. But the other day they fell to 14 bob. Wait, forget the 14 bob. They fell to 250 Kenya shillings. I drove to my cousin's house in Kil. Panicked. A couple of years ago they fell to 200.

[Barack]

250 or 2 shillings and 50 cents. Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And I bought them at 5 bob, remember?

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Deducting my salary.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

May have gone for a mental breakdown at my cousin's house. Who's my.

[Barack]

I have to ask how, how much much loan are you taking from Equity to. To buy these shares at the time was.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

3.3 meter. I think I can go check. I have the people so that you.

[Barack]

Like, like you took a big thing.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

But no, not me. All of us. No one was not buying Safaricom shares. My mother, who had no clue came and said, buy me Safaricom shares. I'm like, you've never bought chairs in your life. Mother, what are you saying? She said, I've had all my friends. Even the Kinoanjiro and Kalunda at home were like.

They did not Buy Safari. Com.

[Barack]

No, I. I know my brother did. I didn't.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

All of us bought Safari. Com shares. No one not. So when it was Beyonce coming and you don't have a ticket. No, you buy those shares.

[Barack]

So when it was hitting 250, you were looking at I have lost.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And actually some of my friends sold.

[Barack]

Cold at that point.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. But I went to my cousin, who I would go to at every point in my crisis world.

I talked to my husband, but he didn't give me enough. I was like, who is this? This one's not helping my life. Let me go back to. So I dropped my cousin who lives in Kalelesha. I was like. He's like, no, no, no. You want Safaricom for long term. Stop panicking. This is what shares is about. And thank God I listened to him because two of my friends sold. Regrettably. Even now they still tell me how they regret they sold the shares. So. But yeah, even the other day it went down to 14, Bob. And I'm like, hey, yo, I should have sold them when they were 39, Bob, a couple of years ago. Yeah, I'd be balling. But you know, that's what finances. Right. Those are risks.

[Barack]

That's what. So now what are you waiting for?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Currently with my shares?

[Barack]

No, no, with your shares.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, right now.

[Barack]

Yeah. Because you said you're still waiting.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

It's for the land University. Then I use that money to go on cruises. This I don't know. No, not yet. Long term, I was very clear. And my colleague had once said to me, said, buy the shares and leave them there. Don't think about them, don't whatever, collect your dividends every year. And then one day those things will hit a number and you will sell them and you'll be better for it. So.

I'm tracking 20 years with my shares. Soon. Yeah, I think soon enough. But yeah, no, there's money that is what we call passive active. So I've also compartmentalized my money like that.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

My shares are. You're in it for the long run. I have SACCO money, I have savings. I've kind of diversified the portfolio just from that perspective where I have things that are high risk and if they collapse, it's okay because it's not a lot like you allow yourself some high risk risk. But the base, that base I told you about, that base must never be touched. It's a base that if I don't work for a year, we're okay.

[Barack]

Yeah. Okay.

So what, What, what's the next sort of in your personal life again in. Through sort of this. What's the next big thing that sort of happens for your monetary leaf or for you guys?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Job promotions.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And funny enough, they happened every time I had a kid. There's a joke in Safaricom that there was a time I was always is pregnant. I had my kids.

[Barack]

And you have four kids.

You have four kids, right?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I have four kids, yes.

So my daughter was born in 2007. My son 2009. My third born, my son 2010 and the other in 2013. So yes, I was always pregnant for like. Like a running joke. Right. Like eight years for some reason. You know, there's that. That saty soul song that says when God gives your child, they give you a plate with it. I'm a big believer of that because I've seen it in my life. My daughter was born, my first promotion came. My son was born. My second. My biggest promotion came with my third born. From a financial perspective. Financial perspective. My biggest pivot was then. I then became an HOD with my last born. I was on maternity leave. I was told we are now looking for HOD position. Loans apply. I came out of maternity, I did my interview at Sankara and I came back into Safaricom as an hod. So those were the four big moments of my life in terms of money. Because promotions came with money.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And money is the salary. But in Safaricom and other corporates, there's also the bonus paya.

S up, which is the shares program, etc, and those have been, you know, very stable moments financially for me. My last. My last bonus in Safaricom, I didn't even. My husband and I, so we did whatever did in Covid. We decided we're leaving Nairobi. We must leave up country.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

My dream was to do that in the Mara. But we never, we never got the. We never landed on a piece of land that we really wanted. So we said next is Nanuki. So we went to Nanuki for about a year and a half. I looked for the right piece of land. Never found what I was looking for. And then I eventually did. So the last bonus I collected from Safaricom in 2002 is currently a piece of land in the new key. I took that bonus as it is. I didn't even tell my husband. Oh yeah, I just went and I gave it to my lawyer and I said, those acres we saw, yeah, here's the money. I didn't even ask him contribute. Remember we are doing 50, 50 everything. I just, just. I came back home and I said, you pay me back whenever you're ready or you'll contribute when my building. But that, that was like the, Yeah.

[Barack]

I, I, again, I, I, I have to ask. The, I think the, the.

The bonus structures that we've had here that we've had on financially correct. I think have largely been from centam, I think, and at Cent. I guess at the very, the very, very beginning, we've had people tell us bonus structures of up to a year of, of, of salaries. What they're getting in as, as bonuses, is that similar to what you guys.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Were so in, in Safaricom, the bonuses were pegged on your performance level and where you are in the company. So levels, there's a percentage, there's a matrix. So there's not like your boss likes you. Hallelujah. You, you are going to get more. No, there's actually a calculator data. Even today, you can still calculate based on your performance. Company performance, you plug it in, you know, that's a bonus you're going to get. So you'd get a bonus as a solid performer. Exceptional. Three levels. I can't remember. I've been out for three years and yeah, we don't collect the bonus anymore. So I no longer calculate, you know.

[Barack]

What your last bonus is? Would you tell us what your Last bonus was?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

8 million.

[Barack]

8 million?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

[Barack]

Okay, that's a million. That's a decent, That's a substantial.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I was pegged at exceptional performance.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

And So I got 8 million.

[Barack]

Okay. And that's this, this your dream home?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

This land.

[Barack]

Land that's. They're waiting for you. Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

So I've also had a very shitty bonus.

[Barack]

Oh, yeah, what's, what's the, what's the smallest bonus you've ever got?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I say shitty because I didn't agree with my rating that year. And so it wasn't about the money. It was about the fact that I didn't agree with the rating. But it wasn't, I was more fixated on, I didn't agree with how you've rated me this year on performance versus what money I was getting for it. I didn't care about the money and I told them, don't even give me the money. My problem is you've rated me where I don't think I belong. And so, yeah, that was, for me was more about the principle of the.

[Barack]

Matter than the actual.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I'm a big believer if somebody takes money that belongs to you, it'll come back. But most more importantly.

I don't play games with money. Even Today in, in, in the company, I always tell my team, the money that is not ours, the money that belongs to suppliers paid on time. There's no supplier today, even under B who will tell you we owe the money soon as client pays, finance pays everybody. Don't use somebody else's money to finance your things. Yeah, I, I'm not a believer on that. So from that perspective I as a like money I think comes with good and also comes with bad. It how you manage it.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

[Barack]

I'm curious and this again I ask out of curiosity. Not, not, not to pry but you, you mentioned when you're buying this land, you're saying you know, things are 5050 you'll pay you back when time comes. So I'm really curious about how your, your family structure works with a 5050 input. So even if so when he does pay you back, what would you do with the money? Is it then yours to then figure out what you do?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

He won't give me back. Like here's your 1 million back.

[Barack]

Yeah, yeah, I borrowed it.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

No, it'll go back in. If we're gonna build on that land, you know, he'll say hey, you bought the land for 8 million, let me contribute the first 8 million towards the bill. Right. That's the way it would work. But not articulation.

There's a balance and we have a very good balance. We're very clear on what he's paying for and what I pay for. So he pays for school fees, rent, groceries, he does all of that. I pay for entertainment, holidays.

Internet, tv, water, electricity, etc.

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah, but if he was here, he'd tell you he's doing more.

But what I'm saying is really that I am an equal contributor in the home.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Keeping our home running.

[Barack]

Yes. Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

But there are months I pay more for some stuff because you might go on a holiday that's costing and there's no school fees that period. Etc. So. But I think what's really important is remember that thing that I feel like didn't do justice for my mother was the financially independent.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

That for me is a big driver today. Even now. Even like I told you when I walked out of Safaricom, my husband said to me, you know, why don't you take. I was like. Like to do what? No, I'm mandly desk. Got your gigs?

[Barack]

Okay.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

[Barack]

This again I want to ask for I guess a potential corporate individuals who. Who watch financially incorrect beyond and this I say inhuman beyond in humor, rather beyond the pregnancies. Like what are the things that are allowing you to progress in your career because you be. You get to a position of one of one. I mean, ahead of brand. It's one of one. What are the things. And I'm wondering because, you know, you also mentioned at the beginning of the career, of your career because of your dad's passing, you're working seven days a week.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

[Barack]

So I'm wondering what are the brand demanded it. Yes. But out of your choice. So what are the things that you have done throughout these 20 years that have allowed you to truly stand out, to allow you to get into the promotions, to get to the positions that you got on the corporate space?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

I think. Let's talk from an individual perspective. Drive. I really made sure that I wasn't stopping. I was interested in what happened next. I was driven constantly. That thing for me was I didn't want. I never let my foot off the accelerator. I've always told people I've worked from the time I was 17, and I've never slowed down. The drive to grow. The drive to do something better than the last time. The drive to do something. Something. An event. I always tell my team was good as our last event. And that's also what I would say in Safaricom. So we did a fantastic Nikona in ld. Kisumu has to be even better. That kind of a thing. Drive was the number one factor and just wanting to grow. And.

I think that was the biggest thing for me. Drive. That was the internal enabler. The internal. What I was doing for myself. Right.

Learning, looking at what everybody else is doing. Those are all the things that help deliver that drive. Because you can be driven. And then you're sitting at home watching opera.

[Barack]

Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

There's a drive of, okay, I'm exhausted, but I'm still gonna get in my car and go see how something is being done and being bold. There's a lot of things I did honestly, that.

Sometimes I'd be like, I. I was pushing boundaries in a man's world, even in my industry.

[Barack]

Can you give me a practical example? If you can think of one.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Rugby. Rugby. The decision. The decision to take rugby out of RFUA grounds, take it to Nyah Stadium.

[Barack]

Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Wasn't taken well, but we knew what it was gonna do. Yes. It.

[Barack]

What was the challenge that as. As an avid rugby fan at the time, I know that there was.

With the.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Venue, but it was so small. It didn't allow. It wasn't driving revenue for r. It was beautiful in terms of that camaraderie. The community and but then if you move to a bigger space and you fill the stadium, the amount of revenue.

[Barack]

You'Re collecting, what was the fear with moving to a bigger stadium for the.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Move to new, that loss of you've left your home?

[Barack]

That was the only concern. It was from.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

From the stakeholder perspective for us, we were very clear you can do so much more. And remember at the time there was a bid to bring in. What's the Rugby World cup thing called, to make it as that status that hopefully Kenya can host it one day. That can't happen in one space. So just being able to take that decision or take or own a decision like that and. And then have to almost work through it with an ecosystem that maybe doesn't even want you there in the first place. Most people want you to give them their sponsorship money and bugger off.

[Barack]

Yeah. So are you holding. So are you holding your breath when you, you force, quote, unquote, force the decision to move to Nyayo Stadium? Are you holding your breath that it pans out or are you confident that it was going to pan out? Both.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Both. If anybody tells you that they're so like, yeah, it's gonna happen. Those are when you go. When you put your head on the pillow at night and you're you and God.

You are your real. The real side of you comes to. There are nights you're like, hey, if this thing doesn't work.

There'S a whole ecosystem. So it was a mix of both, you know, and, and always tell people, go through the motion of uncertainty, go through the motion of questioning because only then are you able to answer that correctly. Don't hide under. Don't hide. Your drive doesn't have to be a constant accelerator moment of you're bullish and it's my way or the highway actually have some moments of doubt because it'll help you answer what is driving that doubt and how to overcome that doubt.

[Barack]

You know what's. What's particularly interesting for me about The Nyayo Stadium movies, one, as a. @ the time I'd be playing rugby fan. I remember when the move was.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Announced.

[Barack]

Yes. I probably was among the people who are throwing stones about it. Yeah. But then also I ended up working at the Secretariat for, you know, the Safari Sevens tournament that year. So I also like saw that. Saw the other side come to life. So I don't know if you remember but like, what was the difference? Because the difference was huge. I mean in attendance. In attendance.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Energy, most sponsors just. Everything grew, everything exploded. And even the people who Fought us at Karu, came back and said, thank you because you've helped us get revenue that runs the space for another.

[Barack]

Year.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. So everything exploded the way we wanted it to explode. And it worked. It did. But there's those moments in my current life. I took on Solfest in the first year of.

[Barack]

Operations.

And it was in a Covid.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Year. No, we didn't do the first.

[Barack]

Or you didn't do the.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

First. So let me tell you the soul first.

[Barack]

Story.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Okay? I've known Saudi Soul and Kina Moriasi for years because of my previous life. I worked with them to book them in gigs, etc. We did Nikona with them. I negotiated the Nikona contract with Moriasi, who at that time, I remember Morias, he came into my office and I had always dealt with Bien before then. And this time they're out of the country. So Maurias had just taken over. They sent me Moriasi and he really pushed. He bugged. Hey, that man really pushed me. And I thought I bargained hard. I thought I was a killer. But Moriasi really put me in my place that day. And I remember calling Bien when he came back to the country and I was like, please, can you stop sending me Moriasi? I'm not gonna deal with him. But today, Morias is the best thing that has happened in terms of when you sit with somebody like him and you just think he's marketing genius mind and the way he thinks. Yeah, that's. That's another podcast. But invite.

[Barack]

Him. No, he actually has sat there and he's talked about. Yeah, and he's talking.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

About. Yeah, cut that part.

[Barack]

Out. No, it's.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Fine.

So. So 2020 is when they do the first soul.

[Barack]

First.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. Carnival. Second one is.

[Barack]

Kicc.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. The third one in August is the year I'm leaving. Safaricom is the year. Anyway, that's the year we've announced I'm leaving.

I didn't leave that year. I left as an employee, but I stayed on for another nine months as a contractor under my company contract. But.

They did a beautiful farewell for me and two other colleagues who are leaving at the same time. Really nice. Like, if I was to say it was done, I. I was really happy. They invited my family. They surprised us with. With all the people we love. Everybody came for it. You know, Kadi, Owen, Elliot, Kipchoge did a video. All those things tough. You, you know, 20 years of your life has been in one night honored in a most beautiful way. But comes Bien and Savara and I'm thinking, wow, My friends have come sing for me. Lazizi. I love Lazizi. Instead my.

[Barack]

Ringtone.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. And Bien sings and then finishes. And then he says, I need to talk to you. I said, okay, fine, be on WhatsApp. And this was a Thursday night, I think. And he said, Ah, Mr. Kuja, I'm saying bye to you at. You know, Biento, I'm not here for your farewell. I need you. I need to meet you urgently. Now that you're out of this place, I can engage you. So I met Bien for coffee at Art Cafe and he said to me, we need your help. Would you please come help us do Soul Fest? And so we spoke for about two, three hours. He said. I said, yeah, of course. It would be an honor to do this for you guys. And remember, I'm passionate about these guys. I've seen Saudi soul grow, right. Their number one fan, according to me. I gave birth listening to Lazizi, by the way, to all four kids. That was a song in my ear.

And even when my last born was born, they came and they sang. True story. I asked them to come. They came to visit the baby. Polycup came with the guitar. They started singing Lazizi Aga can't hospital chase them out because they were making so much.

[Barack]

Noise.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

But. But anyway, yeah, so I met Bien and then after that we met everybody. I brought my business partner along and we. We tried to take over that one that happened at KICC that year. But unfortunately we were very late. We're now in September, October, it's happening in December. We couldn't execute it, so we picked up the one in 2023, which was the boys now taking a hiatus. That last dance.

[Barack]

Show. Yes.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

We. We did that for them. We did last year and we're currently working on this year. So Soul Fest was probably in this new life of mine as be experience was that make or make or break moment for me because he has a monster that I've said yes to.

And I'm the only employee in the company.

[Barack]

Right? Well, at the time you're saying, yes, it's you, it's me.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. And we've got but friend. So the way we work our business model, in our ecosystem, we're about 30 of us, all of us are freelancers. We all have our own companies. If you win a pitch, I'll come support you. Executed. What is beautiful about this ecosystem is we've got a team of experts that will come in at the right time. And so there's 29 of us actively working on Solfest just under BE. There's a tech engineer, there's a sound engineer, there's a marketing expert, all that.

But I looked at soulfest. I've taken on this baby. I'm now working on this project day to day with Moriasi Kavuda, the boys chairman, Mr. Courier, etc, and you're working on this for seven months. And you know how you want it to look on paper. But the responsibility of sending the boys off on their break in a beautiful moment is sitting with this, with us, driving it into a profitable venture, looking for sponsorship, looking for the right ticket price, giving the consumer a fantastic product that they want to come back and pay for again next year. All those things. And so Solfest was a big make and break for me as well. And it worked extremely well.

I remember.

So we did new things. We introduced a VIP night on Thursday. We did a behind the scenes ticket on Friday. We did the main show on Saturday. What people don't know is on Tuesday it rained so much. It brought a lot of our sound and structures down. The rain was so bad we had to stop. It didn't break stuff, just everything flooded. The show is on Thursday. We imagine you've built a house that then move.

[Barack]

Into.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

And I got home at. After sending the team praying, you know, praying with everybody. Because now you have almost 150 people also on ground that are completely demotivated. We've been working on this project for months. We've been. And it rains so bad, so bad. The wind was so bad that you know that rain that bad, right. And I got home and I remember I walked into my room and I turned on the shower and I just started crying. It's the week of the gig. I've had emotions of months of the responsibility of honoring these guys who have trusted my brand to deliver this for them. Right. And. And.

My husband's like, okay, why are you crying? And I'm like, I need to cry. I must cry because I think I'm going to collapse. And anyway, we wake up in the morning and everybody just. And we deliver this fantastic show on Thursday and on Friday and Saturday and delivered profit and all of those things that you pray and hope that in all your planning is going to work out and then it does. And so for me, Solfest was forget just financial because obviously it was financially benefit to everybody. The suppliers were paid. Nobody will tell you anything outside of. No one from Solfest can tell you their own money. And I think that's such an important thing, is that you are able to do something and do it extremely well and give everybody their dues, whether it's their flowers for the delivery of what they envision or financial benefit. But we just being able to see that from a financial investment, giving sponsors back what they deserve and more than what they thought they were going to get, all of that stuff was probably one of the other moments of doing things right and spending your money. Well, that was really important because you as my client are trusting us with your hard earned brand. Right. You've got this baby called Soul Fest that is doing this amazing festival and now you're trusted to deliver it at, at a better.

[Barack]

Elevated.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Level.

[Barack]

Yeah. Okay. As you're leaving Safaricom, what financial considerations do you have to make now that you're going to business for.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yourself?

[Barack]

Yeah. Because are you still. And what percentage are you now earning per month of what you were making.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Before? Why? Hey, less than even.

[Barack]

One. I took less than even.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

1%. Yeah. Okay, so remember offline, I told you about how having a permanent gig is so secure, so beautiful. So let me tell you guys a story. I take the decision that I want to leave Safaricom and I make the decision. But before I go and give that formal, formal, I want to leave. I go back to this cousin, my cousin in Kilileishwa, and I sat down with him. I've been telling my husband I want to leave. He's like, leave, we will work this out. But let me now go tell my cousin who's traditional, who has been by the books that you must earn and who lives a good job. And I remember sitting in his. Remember he's on. Who's been.

[Barack]

Feeding.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. He's one from Safaricom. At night I'd go eat before I go home kind of thing. So I've now said, you, can you please cook food? I need to talk to you. So him and his wife always have time for me. So I sit down and I said to him, so I want to leave Safaricom. And he's like.

You know that dad of yours in Shags, who's asking.

[Barack]

You?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. And he's like, who leaves a secure job? Your position. You have a big car, you have a corner office, you have a driver. You have budgets that people like. He's not understanding. He's like, I don't. I think he even called my husband and said, what's wrong with your wife? What is going on here? Who leaves a good job? He calls my younger sister in Thailand and says, can you please talk to your sister? She wants to leave a job. And I said, I'm not just leaving because I, I've been there 20 years. I need to do what's next for me. And genuinely I thought my next was that I must be employed. I.

[Barack]

Never. You are not leaving to go into.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Entrepreneurship? No, not at the time I had taken my decision. The time I had taken a decision to leave was, was way ahead of when I actually went to Safaricom and Saddam to leave. You don't wake up and leave a job. You plan for it. I did.

The first time I wanted to leave to do whatever I hadn't figured out was in 2020, but I actually resigned in 2022. So two years, it's been a two year journey. It's been a two year journey of am I emotional, am I overthinking this thing? All those things, those two years, if you were to open my brain, you're just fine and all that, you know, just. But the decision to leave wasn't overnight. It wasn't driven by anything drastic. It was actually, it was a well planned out journey in the sense that I knew eventually I wanted to leave when it was. I hadn't set a date.

I had registered BE in 2018. A friend of mine said, I think you need to register your own company. And I hope one day when you leave Safaricom you will start your own events company because I think you're wasting time sitting in corporate. There's so much more you can offer out here. So one loose day on a leave day, I called my lawyer, June. She registered my company. I never did anything with it until actively in 2022. But what does living look like from a financial perspective is when you're alone. You know, you can live and move back to your mother's house or call your dad for money or colarella or sleep on somebody's sofa because it's not working out. When you're married with four kids and you have a mortgage and your, your corporate job is paying for the health insurance and stuff like that. And suffice, Maricom's benefits are solid. It's pension, it's mortgage at a really good percentage. I think I was on 6%. And then I'm leaving to go and pluck 12%.

All those things had to be. So we sat down. The one really good thing my husband and I did when our daughter was born in 2007 is we took out a.

[Barack]

Policy. This is the first.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Daughter. Yes, firstborn I have. Firstborn is a daughter. Next three are.

[Barack]

Boys.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Okay. So in 2007, as all of us do, let me tell you nine out of 10 people, I don't know if it's a stat proven but it's in my head. Take out the first insurance or life policy when their first kid is born. Few of us will do it before then. Have you, any of you got.

[Barack]

Kids? I have. I have two.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Daughters. Have you got.

[Barack]

A. Yes, I.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Do. When did you take it.

[Barack]

Out? Upon the reality realization.

That'S what happened.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. All of us are triggered by. My daughter was born and I looked at her and I said hiya, there's a new human I'm responsible for. So that came with many things including what does her future look like. So we took and life insurance. Not just a policy of, of education. We took out a life policy. I had one in Safaricom. My husband had. Has one where he. But we have our own individual that if ever. Yeah but when we signed the policy and it's a real blessing was that that policy was going to put a certain amount towards the life insurance and a certain amount into investment. So by the time I asked for what, how. What does exit look like? You'll not believe. Whatever mortgage amount I had at Safaricom to clear that market was the amount we had in this investment. So I drew it out and went and paid HFCK the full amount and said I want my mortgage back. And so the first big move we made was okay, health insurance adjustments, lifestyle adjustments.

I was a passenger princess for seven.

[Barack]

Years.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Right. I now drive myself. In fact the first thing I told my husband when I left, I was like where? After drive I must be driven. And he's like so what? The driver drives the kids to school in the morning and then stares at you the whole day. And he said no, you we will adjust and we'll pick our kids and you'll drive yourself. And I've been driving myself for three years and I love it. Yesterday I was told, do you want a driver? I was like no, I'm okay. Same man is like do you want to drive? So lifestyle adjustments, right? And then they've worked. We've not had to.

[Barack]

Compromise. What was it? Was there a car shift and this I'm asking specifically from the Carol Musio episode because she told us she went from I think it was a baby blue to a reg. Yes to.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

I love Fortuners. It's what the car had in Safaricom. So I lucked out. One of my husband's colleagues was leaving the country and he had a Fortuner. So when I was in the car search he, he gave me a really good Deal. So I bought his secondhand car, which is a beast of a car. I loved it. And then about a year ago, I uncle cared a really good deal in a trade in. So now I have a new car.

I've worked really hard for. I didn't wake up to buy a paddle, by the way, eight years ago. Yeah, I told myself, and if you go to Kasoko, there's a very nice gentleman called Jim. A big shout out to Jim. I started in Covid as all of us just did boredom on a Sunday when you need to get out of the car, you've been. When, when the president opened up the country, we were still working from home. We were told, you don't have to come in, it's still covet. I used to go to Kasoko, the one near Village Market and I used to go and look at Prado's and Jim would be like, okay, this is the new one. And he was extremely patient. And I tell him, jim, I'm so sorry, you know, I can't afford this car right now, but one day I'll come. And he said, no problem. Problems are the day you're ready, you come to me and I'll. And that happened a year ago. I was doing a conference at Trademark and I said, hey, let me go sell him your gym.

[Barack]

And. And so you went to the.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Fortuner.

In Trademark? Me, I've taken a walk to go and salimia gym. But you know, I went back to Jim because he was so patient. He never drove like a Cl per se. He never drove that. I must live with a Prado. He, he held me on the journey I was in, which was, you want a Prado? Maybe I could afford it in any of those four years that I really chokos at that man and walked into Kasoko like I was coming to buy a car every weekend. It was just a dream, but I planned for that dream. And so I, I was very actively sure that that's what I wanted one day. I wasn't planning for it last year, but the trade in value and the deal I got for them, even my husband was like sign. So yes, I drove out. So okay, I, I, I, I was very calculated, let me say that. But yeah, and I take it as a. I've worked hard for it. It's, it's, it's, it's a privilege that I have planned for. You know, people say you're lucky or you're, you're privileged. Actually, luck, privilege, all those things are hard work behind the scenes that people Are not.

[Barack]

Seeing.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah.

[Barack]

Yeah. So I mean I have last two questions. So you've told us sort of what the setting up the business was like. You are the only one and you. You take on this really big project and you manage to deliver it. So what's been the last two years like if you had.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

To? I guess so first of all, how do you guys. Yeah alone in the sense that on my first day of operations it's me. Yeah Me, myself and I. Your staff meeting is the three of you kind of thing. But we had an ecosystem of wonderful people. People you know, that are still my family today who came through. You really question yourself by the way that time you've left. You start asking yourself kai, I left employment. There's no SMS of 25th. Here is some. Here's your salute. Checking in. None of that. That, that really. You know, they tell you prepare yourself financially. No one teaches you about preparing yourself emotionally. And sometimes I'm almost like give your financial.

Self as much learning when you're leaving corporate to start business. Give emotional as much weight as you do financial because financial are the ones you see coming for you. Emotional you'll not see coming for you. They are lonely.

[Barack]

Moments. There's nights so you had prepared for not having work. But yes, financially. But emotionally you had emotionally.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Bad. But it still is not enough. It's still not enough. Even if people tell you oh you'll be There were moments of doubt, there have been moments of loneliness. There's been moments of being alone. But then those same moments have been taken over by people. I remember one of my and I'll forever be grateful for to high called her one Monday morning and said, I'm going crazy. She told me, get in the car. A car. We're going to drive around. We'll just do something. We'll find something to do. And you realize there's such a good ecosystem of people out here that want to help you succeed that are as in the people I work with on the Soul first project. You think it's their project as much as it is ours. Sbe they want to see it succeed. This your so yeah, I mean just to answer you, it's not me alone. It's a group of people that want all of us to succeed together. And that's why we're succeeding is because we call ourselves a consortium. Because I got this gig. I need you guys come through. Everybody comes through and does whatever they can.

[Barack]

Do.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Okay.

[Barack]

Yeah. My last question. What does it take to bring a brand to life? And it may Sound like an ignorant question and maybe it is. But like, like what does it take to bring a brand to life? What are the things, things that you're, as an expert, you're taking into account to bring a brand to.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Life. Currently in our work and we, we actually, our payoff line is we bring brands to life. Especially because we're so focused on brand experience.

For me, why I love the brand experience space is that's how a consumer is touching and feeling and, and enjoying your brand. Right? You know, you can say like this water tastes great, but unless you don't give it to the consumer to drink it, you're just telling them it tastes great. They have to. That's the brand experience that you've been able to drink that water. And as a consumer say it yourself that the water is great, right? Otherwise it's just advertising. So for me, brand experience is really important. Bringing the brand to life for me starts first with understanding the customer. I always tell my clients, who are you talking to? What do you want that consumer. Consumer to say about you? That's really important. A lot of us sit in our big offices in the, in the corner looking out and assuming that you know that there's this individual Gen Z that wants you to be talking to them in this way or this is the kind of concert they want you to do this kind of gig. But actually you need to talk to that consumer and find out what space are they in. And then how does your brand become an enabler as a result of your brand, what are you doing in order to. To deliver to that customer and deliver what the customer wants, but also what the customer doesn't know they want yet. And that's why I think for me, I love Steve Jobs was one of the people I really followed through my career to just his thinking was ahead, his boldness, his courage. But he once said the job at Apple was to give the consumer what they don't know they want yet. Thus the entry of the iPhone. No one, I mean he was laughed at when he decided that he was going to do a phone that could be a camera and have music and have all these things and play video. Most of the telco companies threw him out. But that's the job of a brand is to give the customer what they don't know. No one knew M Pesa could exist or that there was such a big need banks had. Banks were not banking the unbankable. Right? So that's how MPESA came about. But that's where it is. It's like how? So I start with that, the consumer for me, even today, if you come with a brief and you say you want to have a cocktail party for your podcast, I'll ask you, who is it for what? What do you want the customer to say about you when they leave? Why are you doing it? Are you doing an event for the sake of doing the event? What are the KPIs, is it brand equity? Is it brand? You know, is it brand? Are you driving revenue? What then we take it from there and then our job then is to understand you're paying us really for our skill set and creative in order to be able to now bring your brand to life. So we then, as the team will go back, we'll go back. We've understood you, we've understood your brand, we've understood the customer, we've understood your why, what's driving you guys. And then we kind of put that onto the paper and say, okay, because you want to do 1, 2, 3, how best do we bring that, your brand to life through that? Because remember, the event is a medium in which the customer is going, going to interact with your.

[Barack]

Brand.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. And you as the brand has many different ways you can spend your money. You could advertise, you could hold an event, you could send out the money to. There's many ways you can make people love you. You've chosen to do it. So that's, that's how we go through the process of it and then basically come back and really focused on our industry. Right. Or what we do as be, which is deliver brand experiences through in form of an event is then we will then put on paper for you how we'd like to do it for you, which is what I say, bringing that PowerPoint to life. And so bringing your brand to life would really be around whether you're a payment platform that wants to engage with distributors and help them understand why this new payment POS system is great. Then we figure out how do we bring that to life for them in a way that helps them understand it, helps them love your brand more, helps them. So you're almost co creating with the consumer rather than just speaking to them about it. So it's an entire ecosystem, but what we owe the customer is to understand your brand and then bring that PowerPoint to life in a way that delivers.

[Barack]

Results. So, so you know, you've talked about, you know, this first year being, you know, relatively difficult. Right. And you've talked about, about getting that first gig and then there were months of no business thereafter. And this again, I'm asking from, I guess, previous interviews we've had here and experiences when someone is really looking to step out, they've had conversations with people about their living and you know, you'll be like, yeah, when you leave. Yeah. And as you leave, you'll get gigs and all those things. So what was that experience like for you? Did, did this ecosystem that you lived in come, come through for.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

You?

Short answer or long answer? Short answer is.

[Barack]

No.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. By and large, no. And let me say this with a lot of.

Grace and humility. My biggest support came from places I never thought it would come from. It was fellow suppliers. I'll talk two fronts, right? They're people, they're the friends you think you have and the friends you didn't know you had. So let me talk the friends you didn't know you had. When I stepped out, my ecosystem is built of sound and tech suppliers, decor, supplies, merchandise, hotels, caterers, etc and when I stepped out.

One of the first places I had gone to to do something and I must call them out. And there's so many people who've done so many amazing things in this, this journey. Remember the friends you never thought you.

[Barack]

Had?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. One of them was actually the Tamarind Group, the family. Martin Danford, Misumi, Lenon Gugi, Millicent, Chef Gabriel, all these guys who said, I walked back into Carnival now as a entrepreneur. And one of the first events we were talking about was, I can't remember what it was, but let me talk closer to now, Soul Fest, which we're doing in the second year of BE operations. But that's not when they said it it what they said to me immediately I left Safaricom was if you ever need anything from us, terms. And remember, nobody offers you terms when you're on your own. They hey, if you're getting terms from a supplier, that supply is a good supply, because everybody wants you to pay up front. Pay up front, then I get services. Carnival Team told me, z, if you've got a gig, we'll supply you. Pay us after 30 days. And they said, anything you need. They gave me space to work, etc. I knew they're good people. I just never walked out and thought that those are the first kind of people I could bank on. And it came with other suppliers. There was a merchandise supplier who told me, zar, come pick whatever you need. You know, you've been so good to us in your previous life, whatever we can help with, decor, partners, sound and tech, everybody who said, come, take what you need. People. Even when we had gigs and we didn't. I remember there was a wedding we did in the Mara, and we really wanted to come through for this couple, but obviously it was not a big budget event. But, you know, I asked one of my suppliers, I need this. She told me that. Just tell me what you want. I don't need your money. Come and pick. And Edu from my team went. Picked everything. We filled a van with her things, and she never asked for money for them. We paid. I mean, you pay because that's the right thing to do. Basically, we paid what the client had paid us to pay. But the value, add the stuff. She gave us more than that. So I might say that I need two chairs. But she says, why don't you take the chair and the table and the flowers and the lights. That's the kind of ecosystem that we found ourselves in, where people that you never thought you could rely on and depend on come through for you and ask for nothing in return. They're just like, hey, we want you to succeed because if you succeed, we. We could benefit. Or just, we were doing this because we are good people.

And then the people you think are your friends and in your ecosystem and, you know, the people that you've come through and you. Or you think you've come through in your corporate life, right, it's people who've called you, sponsor my event, and, you know, I need you to do this gala night. Kutzafari come, and you come through. Right? And you think because they're in similar positions in big companies out here, that when you step out and I'm not asking you to give me a gig, it's not a handout I'm asking for. And I think that's something I will always say. Not once has anybody said, give us a handout. What I'm saying is give us a chance. Introduce me to supply chain. Allow us to at least share our profile. And when there's an RFP going out or when you're looking for new supplies in a category, consider us, those calls were not picked up for a good, Let me just argue, one and a half years first. All those people that I thought I could call, they didn't pick my calls. Zero, not.

[Barack]

One. How difficult is that to come to.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Terms? Do you know where my business came from? It came from other people that I never expected would speak for me in rooms I was not in. Not the people I thought, hey, not that I thought you owed me, but I just thought.

We'Ve done this together. We've walked this journey together. I'm now on my own. You're in a position of decision making. Influencer. Influence. Could you maybe introduce me to your supply chain? Nothing. Zero.

[Barack]

Nothing.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. I can count. I can tell you how many calls I made. And at some point I said, actually, you know what? Let me. Let me stop. Yeah, let me.

[Barack]

Stop. Because.

How painful and how difficult was it to come to terms with that reality of not having your calls picked up? And what does that feel like at the.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Beginning? Hurtful. Painful? Again, it's. People need to be careful that we're not asking you to do us favors. I'm not saying I must do your gig because you know me. I'm just asking to be given a chance to be introduced to the people, to get to know what we can do and then hopefully from there being given a chance. Right. It was very painful at the moment, but it's the most beautiful thing that has happened to us. At the same time, it's the most liberating because now I know you've showed me who you.

[Barack]

Are.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Why am.

[Barack]

I. But does it happen overnight? Does it happen like you're head of brand on 31st. On 1st, you're not head of Brand. Yes and.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Have I said yes enough times? Yes. And let me tell you how bad it.

[Barack]

Is.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Everyone who tells you their phone stops ringing.

[Barack]

Believe.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Does. Let me give you guys an example. So I left on March 31st on a.

[Barack]

Friday.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes. Went on. We went away for the weekend. It was. And on Monday, we came back. So Tuesday, I'd created a home office, threw my last one out of his room, and I said, I need an office. I must look professional. I put a nice picture in the background, did all the things you think you need to do. And now I'm sitting at this desk. My WhatsApp is not ringing. There's no ding on my WhatsApp. There's no phone call, there's no email. You set up a really nice.

Email. No email. So I'm like, is this stuff working? So I write myself an email test. It comes. I call my friend. I'm like, can you write me a message? Can you email me? It comes. So I'm like, obviously, email. See, sh. Phone is not ringing. So I called my husband, who also works in the house, his home office is at home. And he's like, where are you? I said, I'm in the house. He said, why are you calling me from the house? I said, I want to check if my phone's working. So I said, call me. So he said, what? I said, call me. I don't think my phone is working. He calls me and he's like, your phone's working? He said, what's the problem? I said, no one's looking for me. That was hard. I called my friend Kavuda. I'm like, k, my phone's not ringing. And she said, welcome to entrepreneurship. I said, I think I'm going to have a meltdown. She said, I'm coming to pick you up, Kavuda. Thank you.

[Barack]

She. So she's the one who.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Drives? Yeah. She drove me around Nairobi to keep me busy. She's like, don't worry. It happens.

Yeah, but we never looked back. Yeah. That drive, after that drive, we never looked back because I stopped waiting for those phone calls. World. Was it hurtful?

[Barack]

Yes. I mean, three years in, do you still have some of those days today.

Or have they completely washed.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Away?

Not those days of, oh, you're not picking my call, or you're not giving me work? No. I think we found. We found our niche. We found where we belong. We found people who believe in our product. We're no longer. We're no longer chasing that guy that doesn't love you. We're now with people who actually are like, hey, listen, we like what you guys are doing. We may not be able to do it all the time, but you're the guys will choose every time. So we've got that ecosystem. So we're no longer looking for things in places where we know we may not find what we're looking for. Funny enough, fun enough. And I say this with a lot of.

With a lot of.

Gratitude. The same people we were looking for, the same brands we were looking for in the first two years are now calling us to go pitch, which is a good thing. It shows we've grown. It shows they now understand and it's fine. Maybe in the first year now, you imagine Zai sitting on her own desk. You're going to take her way to start saying she can do what. And there's no office to. So I understand that. Let me say that.

[Barack]

With.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

With. I also understand that perhaps you don't want to take a risk on us because you don't owe us anything. And maybe you'll take. You'll take ve to supply chain, and B doesn't even have an office. Maybe those are the fears people have gone through, but those same brands are now invited us to pitch.

And so that's been actually a. A what I would say as A is a comeback in terms of 360 degree. And then. So, yeah, I think it was painful, but also now we don't reflect on it and think, oh, you didn't pick my call. The same people who didn't pick my calls, I'd still pick their calls just because I believe in the circle of.

[Barack]

Life.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Your position is a gift. It's given to you for to make a difference in whatever way you can. When you step out, hopefully I'll still be there for you in a way I can. I. I'm not gonna carry that. You didn't pick my call call. Maybe you didn't pick my call for whatever reason at the time. But I think the most beautiful thing is you've. You've shown us, you know, that thing of believe someone when they show you who they.

[Barack]

Are.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Big believer of that. But it's also been a great growth because we went to places we never thought we'd grow into and brands that have chosen us as we've chosen them, and we're building off of.

[Barack]

That. Yeah. So you've mentioned. I mean, you've talked about Sofist quite a bit.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Right. And that was like the big.

[Barack]

Baby, the first big baby evaluated. So are you able to break down for me just.

In a bit more detail maybe just what doing so first has done for your.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Business? Oh, it's been great.

You know, and again, remember that thing of build your brand, the business will follow. This is part of that, because when you do something as.

Let me say, iconic Soul Fest is, and I know we manage it, we run it, but actually it's a homegrown product by Kenyans, fully for Kenyans. If you look at how many people came through last year, 18,000 people is not a joke in one night. So it's. And. And it's plowing back into the creative industry. It's putting people on stage in a beautiful way. We are a production, you know, we are not just you're getting on stage and performing. We are spending months on the product, rehearsals, costumes, makeup, dancers, all that stuff. It's a properly produced, no shortcuts production. Right. That's coming through for Kenyans. So from that perspective, it's been a real joy to see something that a group of people that sat down and said, we can do this for ourselves as people.

By Kenyans, for Kenyans. So that's been something that we are really proud of. Being a part of it and just being able to add value to it and see it grow, I think is also really Important.

Whether there's the financial aspect and the financial aspect is not cutting corners. It's giving sponsors what they deserve. It's making sure that people are paid what they're worth. We're very upfront. If we can't afford you, we go into a negotiation and you. No one's forcing you. Right. If, if, if you sign me up at a certain price, then I have, have willingly taken you on at that price kind of thing. So. Because we're delivering, and we're delivering a product for a brand that is as Soul Fest is, is a solid brand. So yeah, to answer you, yes.

In a long.

[Barack]

Way. Thank you for that. Thank you for the context you have.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Answered. But also let me, let me, let me add to something around the kind of brands you associate yourself with. With. Yeah, and taking on work for the. Yes, we need to make ends meet. But also there's a value to valuing your brand with brands that actually want you, that value you as well. You know, it's no, there's a relationship of I'm the client and you're the supplier and you're gonna do what I want versus the brands. We're really enjoying doing work with these other brands who've. There's a brand who told us the other day a hey, hello, we've hired you guys to do the stuff for us. Please do it. Just tell us what you want from us. We're not experts in events. And, and he told the rest of his team members, he said please don't start dictating to these people what to do. They're the experts. Our job is to co create and enable them but don't start treating them like supplies. And those, those are the guys who get the best from us because you're then allowing us to do what we are great at doing for you. You're giving us your money for a reason. Let us work for the money. So the brand association also matters. Worked for.

[Barack]

Us. Okay. Okay. So you have, so you meet, so you meet this friend like so you meet your friend and, and you have this first contracting gig of ifc, which is good.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Money. My friend at airport, very nice.

[Barack]

Guy and, and good money. And essentially this is one of the, you know, first things that you get and at this point in time as well, because I think you mentioned it earlier, is your, you're on this nine month.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Contractor.

[Barack]

Yes. As at.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Safaricom. So at safaricom, I've left August 2022 as an employee but checked in September 1st as a contractor for nine months until the end Of.

[Barack]

March.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. So part time contractor work, holding the same position while they get the replacement. Yeah.

[Barack]

Yeah. Okay. So at this time money is.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Good. I'm still.

[Barack]

Learning.

Okay, so, so what happens when this period is over, this nine month period is over, what happens.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Next? So remember in this nine months I've got the contract with Safaricom, but I've also got this contract with IFC which is good money as it is. And then March 31st I walk out and now you have to get gigs also IFC is finished because it was a short term contract etc and I do my first gig, not my paying gig, but supporting somebody and I get paid and, and.

Yeah, you go from this and I'll tell people there's something we're used to in employment which is you're on 25th or whenever your employer pays you money, where you get that ping, ping from, whether it's MPESA or your bank. Right. And you're so used to it, there's that stability and you know, your SALO checks and whether or not you work. But when you come out on your own, you're as good as the work, you look out for your.

[Barack]

Own.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Right. And that isn't as forthcoming. It's, we've just, I've just stepped out, etc and my first gig paid, first paying gig that I supported with was 50,000.

[Barack]

Shillings. You're being paid 50,000.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Shillings?

[Barack]

Yeah. And to give context, what were you walking away from at over a.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Million. Safari.

[Barack]

Salary. Over a.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Million.

[Barack]

Yeah. So that's what you've, you've left. And your first, when the contract is.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Done.

All things considered, all your benefits, remember pension, health, all those things, put everything. And I always tell people when you're looking at your next job, please don't just look at your salary. You need to calculate everything. You're benefiting from the brand.

[Barack]

Right?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. In terms of your benefits profit, you got car loans, housing allowance. That's not what I got it from Safaricom. But just to give you an example. Yeah. Whenever somebody tells me oh I'm changing job, I got 10,000 bob more. Okay, 10,000. And then have you looked at everything else? Are you, is your pension as good, is your mortgage as good, is your health insurance as good as it was? So from a benefits and salary perspective, the packagers walking away was.

[Barack]

Considerable.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. You know, even in today's time it was a very good. Safaricom really did look after and still does look after its.

[Barack]

Employees. And.

Was that a simple thing to accept? I mean the reality of earning fifty thousand and fifty Thousand is money. Fifty thousand. And I'm, you know, not looking down upon it in any way, sort of form, but I'm just curious, what was your reality? Accepting that from what you've walked away.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

From?

It's a humbling moment. It's a come to Jesus moment, honestly, because you're so used to. And remember that thing I talked about earlier about preparing yourself emotionally and not just financially, your emotion kicks in. You're like, hey, 50k.

I left all that money. You, you, you really, you. You can have those demons in your mind. And.

And it's a journey. It's a journey of. You get over it. You have to get over it. Otherwise you go back and look for a job that's paying you because you'll never progress. You'll never progress beyond the money. And if you stop focusing on the money and start focusing on what you need to do to bring in the money you want to, I think then you're better off. But if you fixate on, oh, my God, God, I left that for this, then you're not. Your mind is not shifting. And I've always told people, when you. In this life of ours nowadays, with the digital economy, with AI, with all these things that Covid taught us that we didn't want to teach us, is fix your mind mindset. Your mindset is your biggest asset, your skill set, the things you're doing for yourself and your mindset, skill set and tool set tools. What are the things? You know? In Covid, one of the biggest things we did in brand experience was invest in zoom and teams and running things online. If we had not done that, our industry would have collapsed. Some of us would be jobless. So that shift of. Yes. Can I tell you, I was like, yo, I called my husband. I'm like, yay.

And the man was like, you need to get over it. You knew this was gonna happen. Yeah, I knew it, but I wasn't expecting to feel like this. That's the reality. But, yeah, I mean, I can be a lot more graphic about how I actually felt about it, but let me be ladylike about it. But the truth is.

It was. It.

[Barack]

Was. It.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Wasn'T. Yeah, it wasn't easy. But nowadays it's like, hey, we got money, we made money. And. And. And it's. We look at it like we got work. We're working towards great stuff. Sometimes we make break even and not break even. Where? Oh, yeah. Oh, these ones are just doing work for free. No, it's. The project didn't give us the kind of billings we think we should have had. But again, remember that thing of investing on your brand, knowing that by doing this gig, and maybe it's not going to give you the kind of buildings you want, but the doors it's going to open for you do, will bring that money back in many ways. So, yeah, but it was humbling. And again, I'm gonna say this to anybody who wants to leave their day job to start being an entrepreneur. Yes, fix the financial, but also get ready with emotional. And even as much as you think you'll have fixed your emotional.

Capability around what that shift is gonna look like, it'll still hit you. It'll still hit you, but when you fall, get up quickly and don't let, don't stay fallen, I think is the biggest thing nowadays. Hey, we're like, wow, we got 50k. Yep, that's fuel, that's airtime, that's groceries, that's the kids entertainment this Sunday, if they want to go to the movies. We no longer look at it like.

Before, I.

[Barack]

Think. Yeah, you know, makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. And, and there's one more question I have. It's a statement that you make around.

Looking at the Safaricom life as a past life, so to speak, and not trying to achieve, not necessarily trying to achieve the same thing that you did then. So did you have to change your, did you completely have to change your value system to be able to, to appreciate yourself now financially? Do you get what I mean? As opposed to compared to this previous self that's earning over a million shillings a month? Do you have to change how you value who you are and what you are financially to be able to do what you're doing.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Now? Not so much, no. Because.

I don't think I looked at it and thought, oh my goodness, I'm no longer earning that money, I better be earning it now. I'm very much, much invested in what are the right decisions we'll take that might not always be financially driven, but will see us grow in a way that's sustainable, that we can make sure we can make. We pay all our bills. No supplier says we owe the money. The team get paid on time. No one feels disgruntled. All those things really matter from a business owner perspective. So I don't think I wake up every month and say, okay, I must have over a million because that's what I had in Safaricom previously. No, no. But when you look at it, when you check in at the end of the year, so I'm not blindly in Business like, hallelujah. It's not a Kumbaya, right? I'm not like, oh, whatever comes, comes. No, at the beginning of every year, I will have a plan that I put out with, with, with the team and with our accountant and say this year we must achieve XYZ revenue in order for us to be considered profitable and our books to be good. Right now we may not get month work every month because sometimes work doesn't come. Last year we. In July, we had a big conference we had banked on and Mandamano happened and the client cancelled it and they never came back.

It didn't come back. So if we look at it from a month on month basis, yes, there's monthly target, but there are months that sometimes. And it's in every business, if there's two or three dry months, we'll try and catch up with it over the next few months. So we have KPIs for the whole year that include where is our brand today? What new clients did we bring in over the year? What are the lessons learned? What are the clients who are bold enough to fire because it didn't work for us, Mind you, we've had to. We've had to ask two clients. I say fired because it sounds. But the truth is we had to part ways because. Not financially, but because they didn't treat us well. They disrespected our teams and we, you know, so that growth of how we growing both financially and from a brand perspective, we check into that obviously quarterly and we go through those quarterly motions. Please don't let any entrepreneur cheat you that they don't have that thing of guy, we've had no work or there's no billing for next month. We. We have that motion. And that motion is very important to have with your team as well, because they as invested in your business as you are. But at the end of the year, we say, okay. Someone told me the other day, and she really helped me with this because I was struggling with, you know, the fact that there was no billings. Things have been slow. Three of our clients are restructuring. So they've put all the stuff they do on hold. And she said to me, you know, sometimes God slows you down to speed you up. And now in the next three months, we have so many gigs that was gonna make up for all the months we've not had work. So that's how we look at the business. In the ideal world, you have monthly KPIs, monthly revenue that must come up. But the reality is we're in a world you, you can cancel us. You can say we're not going to do the event. And it's happened to us many times. You're in a world. We're in a world where somebody cheaper is picked. We're in a world where somebody's friend is picked over you. But we're also in a world where people really like us and in their right time they come and look for us. Which is what's happening in this next.

[Barack]

Quarter.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. So June, July, August have been extremely slow for us. But November, December will make up for it. So from that perspective we, we have months where.

You sit down and you say okay, so we don't have work but instead of sitting here and crying and sharing tissue but boxes we sit and say okay, where are we? We are next. And that's, I think that's where the winning comes from is when you understand okay businesses and any entrepreneur is going to tell you whether you, whatever kind of business you're in, there'll be great months and there'll be months where you want.

[Barack]

Critius.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. It's just. What are you doing with both months for your.

[Barack]

Business?

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Okay.

[Barack]

Yeah. Okay. Thank.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

You. That's very fancy way of saying all the things I want you to.

[Barack]

Say but I mean it works. It works. And I've underst exactly what you're saying. I just want to wind up back on the financial part and have you been sort of on a journey to try and make back the amount of money you are making when working at Safaricom? Has that been an objective for.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

You?

Interesting question. I don't, I know. I don't think I ever went and said because I no longer earn this amount of money at Safaricom X that that's what I, what I'm focused on is building my brand first. The be experience company as a brand because I truly believe the revenue will follow.

And it has genuinely it has. We have not delivered any losses in our first three years and I think that's super important.

I think that's what's important is your.

That was my previous life and I think that's the understanding and I always say that's what happened there. I'm not chasing that. I must replace that revenue. And that's what's driving me. What's driving me is that my company gets to be known for what it's worth. Remember that thing I told you I was taught? Build a brand. The business with follow. Yeah, that's happening. Where I would like be to be known as a solid, reliable Trustworthy.

Agency, curator of great experiences that truly brings bands to life. And people will then choose us over anybody else and that money will come with it. So no, it's not a driver, it's an enabler. Not. I don't see it as I wake up every day. Money is important, but it's currently on the journey I'm on. It's building the brand first.

[Barack]

Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. We have had a two hour.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Conversation.

[Barack]

Really? Yeah.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Imagine. Yeah, two hours though I feel like I've. I've barely touched on this new life. I feel like you asked me so much stuff about my previous life. It should be about my. Yeah, it felt very much about.

[Barack]

My. Your old life as opposed to like what you're trying to do right.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Now.

[Barack]

Yeah. I don't.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Know. Which is.

[Barack]

Fine. What would you have wanted to say that you haven't said.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Anything? I think you touched on.

[Barack]

It.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. I think some of the biggest things I've learned over the past three years if I'm to kind of wrap up what entrepreneurship looks like is.

And I think this was a very good thing that I did and a lesson that I would always tell people is unless you're in the equipment industry, like in our industry, whether you're a sound company or a sound and tech or media company where you have to invest, invest in equipment, equipment, etc. One of the best decisions I took as be was not to go out and use my, spend my money.

In looking for an office space and hiring people and paying rent and having all these things because it would have put me out in the first year, it would have finished. Remember that bonus I talked about? I would have gone and sold that land in order to pay rent. And one of the best decisions we took was actually we don't need anything. We can work from wherever we can work. So in the past two years we've been working from wherever. Our partners Carnival have been so gracious. They give me a board they use, they give me space whenever I need. We've worked in clients, offices, we've worked in places like Kofisi, we've never needed. And that's probably the best decision we made or I made as a soul, as a sole investor, a sole proprietor was not to rush to do what is expected of us. And the expectation is that you're going to leave and have a big office and look like every other agency, that you've got 10 staff members and a tea lady who's serving and you've got 10 people sitting and you're looking Busy. But actually you have no.

[Barack]

Work.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yeah. Then you're wondering how am I paying salaries, Am I paying rent? Etc. We just got our office this year. Three months ago we built our office. So that was probably the. The smartest decision I took at the time. Others I can promise you, the first year I would have packed my bags and had to restart again. Yeah, that was the big one. And then the second one is investing in the brand and just making sure that even we've done events where we've broken even, we've taken a lesser agency fee because we've understood that doing work with that brand and they may not have a lot of money, but forget this thing. And I hate this thing. And I wish people would stop saying do this gig because, you know.

Attack. No, it's actually the association with my. For my brand. With your brand, you know, like Soul Fest for example. Even if we didn't make money from it, we did. But if we didn't, what's the kind of door Solfest has opened for us is. Is an investment and people need to see business like that, that I can't come in and charge you. We're worth our money. And when clients tell us we're expensive, we say, okay, where, how, where do we meet you? Where can we meet you? And it comes to a point where we won't negotiate beyond the point because we know we can deliver quality. And it's not so much about doing driving a deal for you, but also the brand impact it has on us. If you come into an event that we're doing that's not done well or doesn't go well, you will walk out and say, be did a horrible.

[Barack]

Job.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Yes.

Must protect our brand at all times. So brand is also a big one for us at the.

[Barack]

Moment. Okay, you said three. Is that.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Third? The third one. Build the brand, the business will follow. Be careful. The grow slow but steady. That's my third one. The other day, one of my team members was like, za, why aren't we pitching for xyz? And I was like, because XYZ will deliver losses. We may look like we're doing work for big, big things, big brands, but actually we might be taking on more than we can actually handle. So in our first three years, we were, we were very careful on how much work we were doing. So if we do your event this week will not pick another one that's competitive or will pull time away from delivering well for you. It's in our plan that we'll grow in the next three years. To be able to do a lot more. But if we're committed to you, we're committed to you, and you get all of us. And that's something that has worked well for us. It's meant sometimes letting go of some billings, but it also means where we are delivering to the client at the level we promised, but we're also doing what the brand promised it would do. So those three build and a pace that you can.

[Barack]

Manage.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Okay.

[Barack]

Yes. Now we're done.

Anyway, thank you so much for honoring our invite and for coming onto Financial Incorrect and telling us all these. Yeah. Telling us your story and as vulnerably as you did. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for watching Financially Incorrect. It's a Friday. I will let you say your last thing that you want to say, if you want to say it, or where people can find you and the business if you want to say that kind of thing. This is your.

[Zaheeda Suleiman Orin]

Camera. Thank you. Where the Be Experience company you can find. Our latest work is actually on Instagram. You can find us under Be Underscore Experience.

Just find us. Boy, my social media person would be like that. You couldn't get right any one moment. But yeah, look, for us, we bring brands to life. We'll be excited, too. We can take on. We've done weddings in the market era. We're doing big things like sulfur. So looking forward to.

[Barack]

This. Okay, awesome. Thank you very much for joining me this Friday, whenever it is you're going to watch this podcast and we will see you next week on the next episode of Financially Incorrect.