Fintech Insider Podcast by 11:FS
Episode 1015 – News: PayPal launches BNPL in Canada, Coinbase expands into current accounts, and financial education hits the classroom
Date: November 17, 2025

Overview

In this episode of Fintech Insider News, host Laura Watkins is joined by an expert panel: Nicola Benady (CEO, Swan), Joshua Labak (Venture Capital, National Bank of Canada), and Mike Saraswat (CEO & Co-founder, Stoa). The show delves into the week’s major fintech stories: the UK’s move to teach financial education in schools; PayPal’s new fee-free BNPL product in Canada; Coinbase’s launch of interest-bearing savings accounts in the UK; Stoa’s alternative rewards-based savings model; new research on SME lending abandonment due to shame and confusion; and a lighthearted round-table on “faithful v. traitorous” fintech behaviors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Financial Education Enters Classrooms in England

Start: 06:42

• Main Story:
  England will introduce compulsory financial education for primary and secondary schools, aiming to instill money management skills—like saving and budgeting—from an early age. The move seeks to address gaps in financial literacy crucial for modern living.

• Expert Comment (Louise Hill, GoHenry) [06:42]:

  “After five years of campaigning...last week’s curriculum and assessment review recommendation to make financial education compulsory...is absolute music to our ears...The hard work starts now.”

• Panel Reactions:

  • Mike Saraswat:

    “Financial literacy in schools is absolutely essential. This is only the beginning...Financial confidence came very late in life for me.” [08:21]

  • Laura Watkins:
    Emphasized that engagement is vital; making lessons rooted in practical realism can boost interest.
  • Josh Labak:

    “We do have some foundations in Canada...It's still insufficient...Early decisions in your life compound tremendously over time.” [11:07]

  • Nicola Benady:

    “In France we don’t have this kind of thing...My kids have a poor understanding of saving, credit...I’d love to see this kind of thing in France.” [12:31]

  • Mike Saraswat on pedagogy:

    “If it’s in maths lessons, that to me is an immediate deterrent...Make it more playful, like case studies...” [16:12]

• Child Perspective (Dylan, 18:24):
  Humor as a young child lists what he'd buy (a puppy, apple tree, bear)—showcasing genuine, early curiosity about money.

2. PayPal Launches Fee-Free Pay-in-Four BNPL in Canada

Start: 19:35

• Details:
  PayPal introduces ‘Pay in 4’ in Canada (C$30–C$1,500, split into four installments over six weeks, interest and fee-free). Launched ahead of holiday season for easier budgeting.

• Key Insights:

  • Josh Labak (Canadian context):

    “Only about 5% of retail sales in Canada are done through e-commerce, of which PayPal represents under 35%...I don’t think too many merchants should expect this to meaningfully change their sales forecast.” [21:11, 22:27]

    • Fee-free BNPL is a slight differentiator, but card deferrals are already ‘free’ if paid on time: “What is really that delta?” [24:15]
  • Mike Saraswat (oppositional stance):

    “Buy now, pay later...gets people, especially young people, to buy things they don’t need with money they don’t have...STOA is trying to do the opposite—to unlock the things they need using the power of their savings.” [25:03]

    • Notes that for the financially savvy or high-ticket purchases, BNPL can be appropriate, but for most it causes negative behaviors.
  • Nicola Benady (embedded finance lens):

    “BNPL is the perfect example of embedded finance...[but] sometimes in financial services it’s good to add friction...10 seconds might be too fast.” [27:05, 28:33]

    • Fee-free is standard in Europe; in most cases, merchants, not customers, pay the fees.

• Regulation Angle:

  • BNPL doesn’t always appear on credit reports in Canada, but this is beginning to change for better underwriting. [32:09]

3. Coinbase Launches Interest-bearing UK Savings Account

Start: 34:53

• Highlights:
  Coinbase, partnering with ClearBank, debuts a UK savings account offering 3.75% AER interest, FSCS protection, instant access, no minimums, and seamless crypto-to-fiat bridging. It’s positioned to compete with fintech super-apps.

• Panel Commentary:

  • Mike Saraswat:

    “This is just a marketing wrapper really...It’s the best marketing tool they could have ever done into the traditional finance world. It’s for the ‘normies’.” [34:53, 36:29]

    • FSCS protection (UK’s deposit guarantee scheme) is the “gold seal” for trust among the general public. [37:02]
  • Nicola Benady (on partnerships and fintech evolution):

    “It’s interesting to rebundle banking services. In the 2010s it was about unbundling...now it’s about cooperating through partnerships for bundling.” [38:20, 40:42]

    • Most end-SME customers aren’t interested in crypto but are keen on savings products.
  • Josh Labak (super app race):

    “It makes a ton of sense...If Coinbase can convince their users to shift fiat banking needs to them, it could be a big shift for banks and fintechs. The banking battlefield is changing.” [42:42, 44:45]

4. Stoa: A Lifestyle-reward, Non-Interest Savings Platform

Start: 46:14

• Concept:
  Stoa offers savings accounts where rewards are tangible (subscriptions, gadgets, travel) instead of traditional interest. The aim: incentivize ‘idle cash’ savers—over £600bn in the UK alone—who are risk-averse or disengaged from investing.

• Mike Saraswat (Vision & Behavioral Insight):

  “Stoa’s vision is to transform your idle cash into new possibilities...get stuff, don’t just get a little interest. It’s fundamentally opposed to buy now, pay later.” [46:14-50:17]

  • Uses behavioral psychology: instant rewards motivate sustained savings.
  • Will work with banks and fintechs as a value-layer (“win-win-win” for partners and savers).
  • Even highly rational business owners have idle cash; Stoa aims for both consumers and SMEs. [53:55]

• International Appeal:

  • Josh Labak: Canadians are “huge on rewards”—this could work well in North America. [51:11]
  • Nicola Benady: “Behavioral psychology is the same everywhere...would work as well in Europe and for SMEs.” [52:47, 53:55]

5. SME Lending Abandonment: Shame & Confusion

Start: 57:41

• Research Summary:
  New Juice Ventures study highlights that 59% of UK SMEs abandon loan applications out of shame, confusion, or fear of rejection—not creditworthiness.

• Key Voice Note (Catherine Chan, Juice CEO):

  “59%...are abandoning loan applications halfway...Over half associate borrowing with failure...But 60% would consider borrowing if better educational resources were available; 82% want plain language terms...There’s a design failure in lending and fintechs are positioned to fix it.” [57:41]

• Host Reflection:
  Shame and financial education are closely linked—improving the emotional experience of money is as important as product design.

6. Faithful v. Traitorous Fintech Behaviors (Inspired by “Traitors” TV Show)

Start: 61:27

• Panelists’ Picks:
  • Mike Saraswat:

    “Traitorous? The stuff we’ll be sold on Black Friday as necessities. Faithful? FCA’s slow approach to crypto is, in my view, a good thing—better for the public in the long run.” [61:27, 62:44]

  • Josh Labak:

    “Traitors? Fintechs that say they’ll never charge fees, but change once they scale. Faithful? Companies that do what’s good for customers long-term, even at short-term cost.” [62:52]

  • Nicola Benady:

    “Traitorous? Banks delaying debit processing to push customers into overdraft for fees. Faithful? Brands that share their ‘opaque’ money—interest from idle funds or card interchange—with customers.” [63:38, 64:40]

  • Pulse Team's Picks:
    Traitor: Savings apps dropping rates after reaching scale.
    Faithful: Trading212’s transparency and cashback; Monzo/Starling’s in-app fraud detector.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Financial confidence came very late in life for me.” – Mike Saraswat [08:21]
• “Early decisions in your life compound tremendously over time.” – Josh Labak [11:07]
• “BNPL...is the perfect example of embedded finance.” – Nicola Benady [27:05]
• “This is just a marketing wrapper...It’s for the ‘normies’.” – Mike Saraswat [34:53]
• “The only reason [Stoa] exists is there is this behavioral psychology—apathy, fear, indifference.” – Mike Saraswat [49:09]
• “There’s a design failure in lending and fintechs are uniquely positioned to fix it.” – Catherine Chan, Juice Ventures [57:41]
• “Traitorous? Fintechs who promise ‘we’ll never charge fees’—until they do.” – Josh Labak [62:52]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 06:42 — Financial education in UK schools (Louise Hill, panel reactions)
• 19:35 — PayPal launches free BNPL in Canada (discussion: scale, inclusion, criticism of BNPL)
• 34:53 — Coinbase UK launches savings account (marketing/regulatory analysis, super-app trend)
• 46:14 — Stoa’s alternative rewards-based savings (founder perspective & panel)
• 57:41 — SME loan abandonment and emotional barriers (Juice research)
• 61:27 — Faithful vs. Traitorous fintech behaviors roundtable

Conclusion

This episode balances industry news with deep contextual analysis, behavioral insights, and healthy skepticism. From the importance of early financial education, to critical takes on BNPL and banking “super apps,” through to the emotional journey of small business lending and the rise of alternative savings models, the panel provides practical, internationally relevant, and sometimes contrarian takes on the week’s big fintech headlines—delivered with clarity, wit, and a distinct focus on the human at the heart of finance.