Fintech Insider Podcast by 11:FS

Episode 1016
Title: Insights: Is Agentic Commerce the Future of Payments? Live from Paris with J.P. Morgan
Date: November 20, 2025
Host: David Brear (A), CEO, 11:FS
Guests:

• Ludvik Ury (B), Managing Director, Head of Merchant Services, EMEA/APAC/Global Large Accounts, J.P. Morgan
• Lorraine Leconte (C), Director of Global Payments, Risk & Fraud, Back Market
• Lidi Convair (D), Head of Cash Management, BlaBlaCar

Episode Overview

Broadcast live from J.P. Morgan’s event in Paris, this episode dives deep into the emerging concept of "agentic commerce"—a future of commerce where AI-powered agents automate and personalize transactions on behalf of users. The panel unpacks what agentic commerce means for payments, the evolution from “cart to code,” regulatory changes, the persistent complexities in cross-border payments, and how these trends impact everything from fraud management to customer experience and brand affinity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Agentic Commerce? (00:00–09:11)

• Definition & Context:
  Host David Brear opens by describing a shift from traditional commerce at the checkout to a world where transactions and commerce happen seamlessly “often silently and without us really noticing.”
  Ludvik Ury explains agentic commerce as the use of AI agents that act on user intent, automating purchases and decision-making.
• Where Are We Now?
  Ludvik: “What it is not today: it is not the ability of an agent to go and buy for you 100% without you knowing. We are not yet there by far.” (08:40)
• Current AI Usage:
  Lorraine Leconte points out that while “AI is a buzzword today, we have been using AI for years now,” primarily for fraud and risk management.
  Lorraine: “The very big difference is LLMs... GenAI today at Back Market is enhancing productivity, defending chargebacks, but also in fraud management.” (09:33)

2. The Rise of Agents and Shifting Commerce Battlegrounds (11:13–14:13)

• Platforms and Monetization:
  Panelists discuss how search giants like OpenAI and Google are seeking to standardize agentic commerce protocols, challenging merchants and marketplaces to adapt, or risk disintermediation.
• Merchant Readiness:
  Ludvik: “If marketplaces or merchants don’t embrace the way it’s going to be designed, the search engine or the agent will not go to them, will not provide the consumer this opportunity.” (12:07)

3. Evolution & Risks: Fraud in an Agentic World (13:25–14:35)

• Fraud Dynamics:
  Lorraine highlights new challenges: “Fraudsters are going to use agents as well. It will be a machine against machine world in that sense in terms of fraud management.” (14:13) Lorraine: “We have to secure and think about the fraud aspects very much so.” (14:35)

4. Impacts on Treasury and Internal Operations (15:43–21:43)

• Automation vs. Agency:
  Lidi Convair notes that AI’s real impact is providing “a new decision layer," supporting proactive cash management and reconciliation, but emphasizes the critical need for “compliance, traceability, and control.” (15:43)
• Data, Regulation, and Control:
  The group acknowledges that strict regulations (e.g., for data, payments, PSD2) must be solved before full agentic commerce can flourish.
  Lidi: “We need... structured data and unique reference ID to... make every transaction easily traceable in our system.” (20:15)

5. Protocols, Authentication, and Consumer Experience (22:02–24:26)

• Building Trust and Protocols:
  Ludvik predicts a coming wave of pilots in Europe and the U.S. around agent-initiated transactions. Lorraine provides a use case: An agent is tasked by the user to find and buy a MacBook Pro at a certain price—when the criteria is met, the agent executes autonomously (17:32).
• Unclear Liability and Regulation:
  Lorraine: “What will be the case for agent-initiated transactions? We don’t know yet. It’s super blurry.” (24:26)

6. The Human Touch: The Future of Shopping (25:20–30:24)

• Will Humans Miss Shopping?
  The panel debates whether agentic commerce will erode the emotional and experiential parts of shopping.
  Ludvik: “Do we really think that we’re going to be able to do the joy of shopping just like we lost the joy of driving?” (25:20)
  Lorraine suggests physical stores will persist for certain markets and experiences, especially where tactile comparison is needed (26:13).
• Brand Affinity in an Agentic Era:
  The risk of commoditization is raised; brand loyalty may shift from consumer to agent-directed decisions.
  Lorraine: “That’s why a lifestyle brand will be really important... we want people to buy a MacBook from Back Market because it’s refurbished. And be proud of it.” (29:15)
• Physical Stores as Community Hubs:
  Lorraine: “We are also hosting events and conferences in the showroom. It’s also a place where people gather and speak about a specific topic.” (30:04)

7. Cross-Border Payments & Real-Time Treasury (31:28–39:57)

• Local vs. Global Complexities:
  Lidi and Ludvik dissect the fragmentation of payments by country and region, both technologically and regulationally.
  Ludvik: “The infrastructure is made for the consumer, so it’s fully working... But when you are the merchant, the acquirer, the issuer—it’s more expensive, less secure.” (35:00)
• Localization Trends:
  Lorraine: “We actually saw better conversion in some markets if the seller was based in their home country, especially in the UK.” (36:48)
  Lorraine points out significant consumer payment preference variance within Europe: “In the Netherlands, 95% of transactions go through iDEAL; in France, cards; in Germany, PayPal and Klarna.” (40:10)
• Regulatory Patchwork:
  Brexit and other local regulation continue to fragment the landscape, influencing authentication and payment process rules.

8. The Evolving Role of Banks & Fintechs (41:33–45:40)

• Rise of Non-Bank Payments:
  Ludvik: “Today I would say banks are minority players in that space. It’s a business that is very low margin... but high demand for new functionalities, innovation, and regulation.” (41:33)
• Trust, Security & Resilience:
  Despite the fintech boom, banks remain crucial for resilience and compliance.
  Lidi: “Bank is not just a service provider. I need the expertise locally... I need resilience.” (45:40)

9. Looking Forward: What Excites the Panel? (46:32–48:52)

• Agentic Commerce and Fraud Management:
  Lorraine: “How is fraud management going to adapt even more than the payment experience? The question is more where will we put frictions because of fraud management in this experience?” (46:32)
• Consumer Behavior & Reality Check:
  Ludvik: “At the end of the day you’ve got a consumer that is deciding, and whether we like it or not, consumers are extremely conservative about the way they spend money... what excites me is to maintain a kind of reality to all those dreams of evolution and innovation.” (47:04)
• Treasury Transformation:
  Lidi: “For years [Treasury] was seen as back office and boring, but it was always strategic. Now it’s obvious with technology. We have to integrate all this technology and prove our agility... to avoid risk, to take opportunity, and I’m glad to build my part in this future.” (48:14)

Memorable Quotes

• Ludvik Ury (J.P. Morgan)
  • “If marketplaces or merchants don’t embrace the way it’s going to be designed, the search engine or the agent will not go to them.” (12:07)
  • “At the end of the day, you’ve got a consumer that is deciding... consumers are extremely conservative about the way they spend money.” (47:04)
• Lorraine Leconte (Back Market)
  • “Fraudsters are going to use agents as well. It will be a machine against machine world in that sense in terms of fraud management.” (14:13)
  • “We have been using AI for years now... but the very big difference is LLMs.” (09:33)
  • “We want people to buy a MacBook from Back Market because it’s refurbished. And be proud of it.” (29:15)
• Lidi Convair (BlaBlaCar):
  • “AI can just help us to make more proactive decision... But it’s very important to not lose compliance, trustability and all your stuff to control.” (15:43)
  • “Bank is not just a service provider. I need them to, I need to expertise locally. I need resilience.” (45:40)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• What is agentic commerce? (00:00–09:11)
• AI in payments and daily work (09:11–12:01)
• Merchant/marketplace adaptation (12:01–14:13)
• Fraud management in agentic commerce (13:25–14:35)
• Structuring data & regulatory considerations (19:49–24:26)
• Will agentic commerce kill the joy of shopping? (25:20–30:24)
• Cross-border complexity (31:28–39:57)
• Banks vs. fintechs in payments (41:33–45:40)
• Future excitement—agentic commerce, fraud, role of banks, treasury transformation (46:32–48:52)

Tone and Atmosphere

• Friendly, bantering, genuinely insightful—a blend of expert prediction and candid debate. The panelists share both cautious optimism and pointed skepticism, reflecting the complex trade-offs ahead for commerce, payments, and financial services in an agent-driven economy. The discussion is peppered with humor (“Don’t trust management consultants. They always put out big numbers...”—David Brear, 15:43) and relatable asides about holidays, shopping, and even Brexit.

Summary

This episode expertly maps the not-so-distant future in which AI agents could transform the way consumers and businesses interact with commerce and payments. While much of the core infrastructure—such as regulation, protocols, and fraud management—remains to be built and harmonized, the panelists agree that agentic commerce is inevitable, but its path will be defined as much by conservative consumer behavior and robust trust networks as by technological leaps. Brand affinity, fraud management, regulatory harmonization, real-time treasury, and the continued importance of banks are all at play. It’s a “tremendous time to be in payments” (Lorraine, 49:08), but the industry must move both carefully and creatively to thrive.