Fire Escape Cast #101

Summary

Fire Escape Cast #101 Summary

Introduction and Milestone Celebration (00:00 - 00:26)

In Episode 101 of Fire Escape Cast, hosts Dan Ryckert, Mary Kish, and Mike Mahardy celebrate reaching the significant milestone of 100 episodes. Contrary to expectations that the trio might crumble under the pressure of their centennial episode, they proudly announce, “We are episode 101” ([00:26]). Mike humorously recounts past criticisms they've faced, including Mike's voice acting, Mary’s incessant discussions about Nixon in the 60s, and Dan’s fascination with Vince McMahon.

Home Fixes and Personal Anecdotes (00:26 - 04:17)

The conversation shifts to personal stories about home maintenance. Dan shares how he resolved a noisy furnace by simply tightening a screw, while Mike humorously describes how he eliminated a rattling vent noise by “just touching the vent” ([02:44]). Mary Kish recounts a memorable moment from Episode 100 when the team nearly broke up, highlighting the episode's intensity and longevity of their friendship.

Mary also opens up about her recent surgery to correct a deviated septum. She details the painful recovery process, including waking up from surgery with “gauze” in her nose and being on painkillers for several days ([06:03] - [09:00]). She expresses immense relief and improved quality of life post-surgery, emphasizing that it was “super worth it” ([09:00]).

Alcohol Discussions and Personal Habits (09:00 - 18:07)

The hosts delve into conversations about alcohol consumption, with Mike planning to get a dental implant. Dan criticizes his own tooth gap humorously, suggesting creative (and absurd) uses for it, while Mary explains her need for a sinus lift due to a long-neglected dental issue ([09:33] - [10:44]).

Mike brings up the topic of "dry January," discussing its benefits and challenges. The group debates the myths surrounding sulfites in red wine, with Mike declaring, “[...] there's more sulfites in the average French fry than there are in a bottle of red wine” ([18:07]). They explore various aspects of alcohol’s effects, including hydration and mixing different types of alcohol, concluding that many common beliefs are misconceptions ([17:00] - [21:10]).

Video Games Deep Dive (21:16 - 67:18)

A substantial portion of the episode is dedicated to an in-depth discussion about various video games:

1. Avowed ([23:29] - [29:04]): Dan shares his enthusiasm for Avowed, describing it as a story-heavy RPG with engaging combat mechanics. He praises the freedom in approach, the crafting system, and the rich world-building. Mary and Mike chime in, expressing admiration for Dan’s dedication and discussing their own limited experiences with the game.

2. Tales of Iron 2 ([48:05] - [67:18]): The conversation transitions to Tales of Iron 2, a Metroidvania-style game. Mary describes its expansive map, boss battles, and companion system, likening some elements to Hollow Knight. Dan and Mike discuss the game's strategic depth, enemy variety, and the importance of exploring side quests to fully appreciate its mechanics.

3. Civilization VII ([72:07] - [123:57]): Mike critiques Civilization VII, highlighting his dissatisfaction with its emergent gameplay mechanics that prevent players from following long-term strategies. He contrasts it with earlier entries in the series, expressing a preference for more intentional and manageable gameplay loops. Dan and Mary offer their perspectives on the game's complexity and Firaxis's design choices.

4. Crab Champions and Other Titles ([78:45] - [103:38]): The hosts briefly touch upon other games like Crab Champions, describing its simple yet addictive mechanics involving digging holes and upgrading equipment. They compare it to more complex titles, acknowledging its appeal as a stress-relief game.

5. Resident Evil 4 Remake ([103:39] - [108:00]): Mike shares his positive experience with the improved performance and features of the Resident Evil 4 Remake, appreciating the enhanced graphics and gameplay smoothness compared to the initial release.

Listener Emails and Movie Discussions (108:00 - 119:02)

The hosts read and respond to listener emails, focusing on movie recommendations and critiques:

1. Jake from Mediapa's Email ([113:03] - [113:54]): A listener, Jake from Media Madea, shares his experience watching Heat and Urban Legend, expressing disappointment with how certain films didn’t hold up over time. The hosts engage in a lively debate about the merits and flaws of these movies, discussing plot inconsistencies and character developments.

2. Jacob from Wichita's Email ([159:16] - [177:02]): Jacob seeks recommendations for food and wine pairings for his upcoming trip to Italy. Mike provides practical advice on pairing acidic wines like Sangiovese with tomato-based dishes and suggests asking sommelieres for personalized recommendations. Mary humorously shifts the conversation to discuss personal hygiene practices, particularly the etiquette of blowing one's nose in the shower, adding a lighthearted twist to the episode.

Promotions and Upcoming Projects (177:02 - End)

In the final segment, Mike and Vinny announce their upcoming shows and projects available to Patreon subscribers, including co-op campaigns for Total Warhammer and exclusive content on Nextlander’s platform. They encourage listeners to subscribe for access to these additional episodes and merchandise available at fireescapemerch.com.

Notable Quotes

• Mike Mahardy on episode 101 resilience: “We are episode 101” ([00:26]).
• Mary Kish on her septum surgery: “It's so much easier. Even doing little things like working out, I swear to God, food has more flavor” ([08:45]).
• Dan Ryckert on Civilization VII: “This game really is going to be pulling you in 18 different directions. And even when you do commit to one direction, I feel as if it's like, wait.” ([22:50]).
• Mike Mahardy on wine pairings: “If you're having something tomato based, get like a high acid wine like a Sangiovese or a Nebbiolo” ([16:45]).

Conclusion

Episode 101 of Fire Escape Cast offers a blend of personal anecdotes, in-depth video game discussions, listener interactions, and lighthearted banter. Celebrating their centennial milestone, the hosts reflect on their journey, share personal updates, critique contemporary games, and engage with their audience through entertaining debates and advice segments. The episode concludes with exciting announcements about upcoming projects and exclusive content for their dedicated Patreon community.

Stay Connected

• Merchandise: fireescapemerch.com
• Patreon: Subscribers gain access to exclusive shows and content.
• Upcoming Show Launch: Mike and Vinnie Save the World launching March 3, 2025.

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Note: This summary captures the essence and key discussions from Fire Escape Cast #101 released on February 24, 2025. For full insights and the dynamic chemistry of the hosts, listening to the episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the fire Escape cast. It is episode 101.

[B]

Whoa. 101.

[C]

What are we gonna take tonight? Couldn't be done. They said that we would crumble on our 100th episode, and that they did.

[A]

Everyone said that Mike was doing voices back in the 40s, and they thought that would bring down. Mary was talking about Nixon way too much in the 60s. Dan had his Vince McMahon fate. Well, he still likes Vince McMahon, but we just don't talk about it as much. So we're here. We are episode 101. I'm Mike Mahari. That's Mary Kish.

[C]

Hello. We almost. We did almost break up on episode 100. I think that was probably one of the most intense conversations, but we did it.

[A]

I think people liked it.

[B]

I had a second wave of being annoyed because I forgot, because I was probably several drinks de by the point this happened. So I forgot it happened. But I saw someone be like, wow, I can't believe Mary was arguing Diablo 2 is more influential than Mario 64. And I saw that comment and I was like, what about a comment about our own podcast I forgot about and got mad about again.

[A]

You made a noise I've never heard you make. When she said that you did like a. Was just being. Yeah, it did. Okay, Mary, like, I. I think someone can easily like Diablo 2 more than Mario, and it can be more important in their life. But, like, yeah, I think Mary was just trying to. She'd been a stage prod you at that point.

[C]

I just didn't have much to work with. But I know that Diablo 2 is really important to me, so I was like, I think it is more influential. And then I think what I said something was like, you know, I made the assumption that how I feel is probably how everyone else feels and that it should win, but I did lose that battle. I think the only thing that was really valuable was when the Witcher 3 won.

[B]

You know, the past episodes. In the past episodes, the important thing is big personal news. Remember my teakettle in the background?

[A]

Oh, the furnace.

[B]

Yeah. Remember the furnace sound? Yeah. And plaguing recordings. Well, I was going to call a furnace guy, which I don't even know where you'd start with that. I don't know if you just Google furnace guy, probably, but the vent is up above my reach. And so I was like, I don't want to go upstairs and get a step stool and just see if there's something clogged in there. And then I was like, wait, I got all these WrestleMania chairs down here. Like, I've got, like, 12 chairs from, like, WrestleManias I've sat in. And so I just brought it in here. I stood up there and I just touched the vent while it was making the noise, and it just stopped making the noise.

[A]

Oh, it's just rattling. You got to tighten the screw.

[B]

It was just rattling. Yeah, just push it in a little bit. And now, no, no longer making that noise. So I sold the rug. I just took the rug to FedEx today. It's like, I don't need this joker anymore. It wouldn't do anything anyway, so.

[A]

But. So, okay, so you prefer the room without the rug by default anyway.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

You prefer the room without the rug, and you wanted to get rid of it because you wanted to see the floor.

[B]

I was. Sometimes I like to do, like, stretches and stuff on the hard floor and being on a slippy little rug thing I didn't like. And so I moved it over closer to that door, and I told Bonk, like, oh, I definitely like it over there better because then I have more of the hardwood floor. And she's like, wait, the thing you like about the rug now is that it's not on the floor where it was. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. I should just get rid of it. And so I got rid of it.

[A]

So you brought it. Where did you just get to FedEx. Oh, you returned it.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

I found that often if there's a noise that's annoying me in the apartment, something's loose, and I just have to tighten it.

[B]

Yeah, I just touched it, and it just stopped.

[A]

Like our. Our, like, combo washer dryer we have makes loud noises, and anytime I just lightly touch my finger to the bottom right corner, the whole plastic, like, facade stops shaking. I was like, oh, it's just loose. Then I taped it.

[B]

Yeah, look at that. They're homeowners.

[C]

We know what we're doing. You are not doing the job. Touching things and hoping that they work and returning carpets is not normal.

[B]

Hey, there was a problem in my house. I got to work on it, and now it's not a problem.

[C]

Not get to work on it.

[B]

I was standing on top of chairs and touching metal stuff.

[A]

He was thinking about stuff. He was defensive.

[C]

Between us, you have stumbled your way through life yet again, but I will not give you any credence. Nor metal paid for it.

[B]

That also counts.

[A]

You know how I imagine Dan looking while he's working at his house? You know those photos where people pretend to be thinking as if there's not a camera there in the garden when they make announcements and they're just like, oh, I just have news. I just. I. I'm very pensive right now. I'm thinking about the future. That's how I imagine Dan being.

[B]

I'm always pensive, and I'm always thinking about things. That's my whole deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, if I'm thinking about stuff, like, all the time, I'm awake.

[A]

I do fix stuff for real here, too. Have I told you about Robespierre? He's the. It's the. The vent on the roof that was screaming once.

[B]

What?

[A]

We had a, like, crazy windstorm. It. You know those, like, circular vents that rotate on city roofs around the, like, smokestack.

[B]

Oh, yeah, the crazy metal things.

[A]

Yeah. We had such a, like, intense windstorm two years ago that it, like, bent the metal so it was just scraping against the rod, the axle at the center. I went up to the roof and I just WD40'd it. And then. But then it made the noise again next year, so I actually had to, like, pry the metal back into place. It's fine now, but I do fix stuff. I don't just tape everything. It's not all band aids. What'd you fix, Mary? Tell us what you do at your house.

[B]

My nest judging us.

[A]

Oh, yeah. You got your deviated septum undeviated.

[B]

Oh, yeah. How was that?

[C]

Good. The reason we recorded so early. Thank you, both of you, for recording early, was because I had surgery the next day. Day. And I was like, oh, crap. I probably won't be able to talk or do anything for several days because I'll be on drugs. So we recorded our 100th episode early, and then I got my surgery that following morning, and they knocked me out for it, and I woke up a couple hours later. I assume this is what happened to you, Dan. And they packed me full of gauze. It was probably one of the most uncomfortable days of my life. I. You did warn me, but it is severely uncomfortable.

[A]

It was a lot of pain and.

[C]

From nose septum surgery. Yeah.

[B]

The thing I'm shocked about is that you said you got the stents out the next day. Like, I had four.

[C]

Four hours.

[B]

I actually had, like, a week of not being able to breathe through my nose. Like.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How long until you could breathe out of your nose?

[C]

Within 24 hours. So, yeah, the first day was miserable. You can't breathe at all. And I'm trying to breathe through my mouth, but it's painful. And I would wake up, like, Every one to two hours because I would need a sip of water because my throat was dry, because I was breathing out of my mouth. So had terrible sleep Monday night. And then Tuesday, I went right back in, and he was like, let's see how you're heal. And he pulled out my stents, the things that he shoved up my nose, and I could breathe. And he was like, sick. You got some stitches in there. Don't get punched in your face. And I was like, you got it, bud. And I went home and I slept like a baby. It was great. And I slept all Tuesday, like, that evening throughout until Wednesday, and then I went back to work on Wednesday, and I was fine. I was on, like, painkillers a little bit for, like, Wednesday through Friday. But, I mean, I felt.

[B]

I felt.

[C]

I know.

[A]

That's why you feel great.

[C]

They were intense, but I feel I was fine. Like, I was breathing and sleeping normally Tuesday on.

[B]

Okay, that. That's good to hear because, yeah, mine was, like, four operations on top of the sinus thing, so that must be the discrepancy in, like, a week for me, a day for you.

[C]

They were really in there, you know? Whereas, like, for mine, he was like, I straightened your tubes out. And I said, thank you very much. And he was a good. You should be good. Just don't let anything. He said, don't fall and hit your nose and don't have anyone punch you in your nose. And I said, I can handle that. And I think we're back. It's been, you know, two weeks now, and I feel totally fine. I breathe amazing. I fully recommend it. I know we've, like, talked about this before, especially for years, but I have to say, if anyone's been thinking about it, I have slept with nose strips on my nose for years. I have just dealt with it and been like, oh, yeah, to go to sleep at night, I must have a strip on my nose because I can't breathe good. I don't need that anymore. I breathe perfectly fine in the evening. It's so much easier. Even doing little things like working out, I swear to God, food has more flavor, and I think it's because I was stuffed up when I was eating and I couldn't smell the food properly. So it really has dramatically increased my quality of life, and I. I'm thrilled that I did. I have no regrets.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it's great when you're, like, over the hump with that stuff. It's awful when it's, like, going on, but then Once it's all settled, it's like, okay, that was worth doing.

[C]

Yeah, that was super worth it. So that was my big fixer upper, was my own face. I did not do my own surgery, but I also didn't pretend that I fixed it by touching it. So I feel like I'm still on the up from you guys.

[A]

I love what you've done with your face.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

It looks great.

[B]

I'm getting put under on Thursday for a little thing today. I got. I'm gonna get a. What do you call it? An implant.

[C]

What are you missing?

[B]

Some stuff. Since I was 18. I was 18 when I lost that.

[C]

Get a gold one in there.

[B]

I could. Oh, no, I'm just gonna get a normal one. But they got to do a sinus lift first. So they gotta lift my sinus up and put some fake bone in there and then put a screw in there and all this stuff. So, yeah, they told me when I was 18, and I was like, just take it out. And they're like, you sure we can save that tooth? I was like, bad. Just take it out. And then it was like 20 plus years of like, oh, wow, I wish I could chew on this side of my face. And then, like, now my sinuses and the bone structure all fucked up. I probably should have listened to the dentist people when I was.

[C]

Do you ever put a straw in that tooth hole?

[B]

No, I never have. I drink here, but I don't have a straw.

[A]

Keep a garnish in there.

[B]

I guess just this. This week was my last chance. Yeah.

[C]

If you were a farmer, is that where you'd put your straw?

[B]

Yeah. Well, if I moved to, like, Los Angeles when I got off the bus and I show. Want to show that I was a hayseed from Kansas, that's where I would put the straw.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Tooth hole.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Or if you're a getaway driver who wears bomber jackets and toothpicks in his mouth, that's where it would go.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

And you'd stare at Carey Mulligan for 10 seconds without saying anything.

[C]

And it'd be awkward as a stack of toothpicks in that, because you could put more than one toothpick in that hole, and then you could, like, give them to other people that need a toothpick.

[B]

That'd be cool. I think people would like that.

[A]

You could put, like, a Roman candle in there.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cigarettes. Or not a Roman candle. I'm gonna cancel the surgery. I'm gonna keep it like this. This seems great. Keep the hole. Keep the hole Keep the hole, keep.

[A]

The hole, keep the hole. There's too much cool stuff you could do with that hole, dude.

[B]

Man, I had 20 years of this hole, and I didn't know what to do with it.

[C]

Now you're running out of time. I've got holes.

[A]

I'm still pretty lost. Yeah. I'm the only one who has not had a surgery during the fire escape. Tenure. I know. We'll figure something out that's wrong with that.

[C]

I broke bones.

[B]

Broke bones. I broke bones.

[A]

I just never got them fixed.

[B]

I think I broke another knuckle, maybe. Mary, you broke this one.

[C]

I'm not liable for that. I wasn't even in the room when it happened.

[B]

Well, that's true. The one right next to it has not been bending right, and it's been hurting, and it's ever since. That's when I smashed the veggie slicer on it. And, like, all the bleeding stuff is long done. That was weeks ago. But I still can't bend it right. And I did close the veggie slicer on the knuckle. I don't.

[A]

I think you're talking about the veggie slicer as if we've talked about it, but I don't think we've talked about it, Mary, unless I'm mistaken.

[B]

Oh, short version. I slammed my hand in a veggie slicer.

[A]

I gathered that.

[B]

Bleeding all over the place.

[A]

Talked. Wait, was the blood from just, like, crushing it, or did the actual blade hit your hand?

[B]

A bunch of the blades, because it was one of those, like, fine, like. Like waffle tic tac toe things.

[A]

And I was like, a horn weapon.

[B]

Yeah, I was cleaning it, and I, like, dropped it. And as I dropped it, I somehow put my right hand into it and slammed it shut with the left hand. I don't know how that happened, but I just looked down, and it hurt real bad for a second, and I just saw blood start pouring out of, like, five different cuts. And so I just, like, wrapped a towel around her real quick, and I was like, she just runs in. She told me, like, she's seen this before where I'll just be yelling, and she's like, I'm gonna walk into the room, and I don't know what I'm about to see. And it's just me, just blood all over a towel. And she cleaned me up and stuff, so. But it still won't bend right.

[C]

Was it your vegetables?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, so you used the vegetable slicer properly, and then upon cleaning, you destroyed your hand.

[B]

That's correct. Okay.

[C]

Just making sure.

[A]

Sure that's how you messed your hand up.

[C]

So I make sure. I understand that it wasn't in the process of, like, slicing cucumbers.

[B]

Yeah, I burnt it on the air fryer, like, an hour ago, too.

[A]

Okay, I take it back. You really should not cook like this is. We've married. I misread the whole situation.

[B]

Pretty good at.

[A]

There's blades involved with that sometimes.

[C]

He almost chopped his finger off. Microwaving a factor meal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Job hazard of being Dan Riker.

[B]

I'm getting used to it. I'm getting a little more used to it now. I still keep getting hurt over and over again, but, yeah, you got to.

[C]

Be careful with your things. You only get so many of those bad boys, and they're pretty valuable. I feel like you need them especially to do your job, you know? Like, I think there's.

[B]

You really, though.

[C]

Finger dexterity.

[B]

I mean, it's not like I'm talking about stuff way more than I'm, like, playing stuff or typing stuff these days. I can.

[C]

Yeah, but if you had eight fingers, do you think that you would be as good at your job?

[B]

I mean, I played a bunch of games with the broken finger, and that was nine.

[C]

I said eight. And the other ones are gone.

[B]

Oh, they're just missing entirely.

[C]

Yeah. You can pick which ones.

[B]

I'll. I'd make it work. There's great strides in accessibility these days.

[C]

It's true. I do think you're making a lot of excuses for you to lose fingers.

[B]

I don't. For the record, I don't want to lose any part of my body.

[C]

You'd like to keep them all.

[B]

I'm gonna. I'm adding to it. I'm putting a fake tooth in there.

[A]

Yeah, but he's reinforcing himself. Soon he'll be unstoppable.

[C]

Yeah. He's gonna have 11 fingers and no holes.

[B]

Gonna get, like, three more shoulders. Yeah.

[A]

It's like deus ex, mankind divided.

[B]

I would do that. I would do, like, seriously, if it was, like, a reputable company and it wasn't some, like, weird neuralink Elon musk thing. I would just. If they were like, yeah, we can chop off your head and give you a good robot body, and it's safe. I would absolutely do it.

[C]

We can rebuild him. We can fill the holes.

[B]

Yeah, fill my holes.

[C]

What I say to the doctor.

[B]

Yeah. Why are they looking at me weird?

[C]

They love it.

[A]

Well, I'm glad the gowns have no back.

[C]

Did you actually.

[B]

I mean, the clitoris Mike. Mike, get out of the discord. Jesus. I'll talk about the clitoris all day.

[C]

Mike.

[B]

Mike, stop talking.

[A]

I jacked off in a Rainforest Cafe.

[B]

We gotta just kick him out of the. Kick him out of the call. Kick him out. Kick him out.

[C]

That poor man.

[A]

That was my best friend.

[C]

He did say those things, though.

[B]

He did say those things. It's true.

[A]

Doesn't know where the clitoris is.

[C]

What else is going on? I feel he does. I'm sure. Leave him alone. I sent him a bunch of salt.

[B]

Mike?

[C]

Yeah? Why'd you say why? We had a nice conversation over Christmas break or somewhere around there games, the Game Awards where we were talking about chicken salt and he had only had like one kind. And so I asked for his address and I sent him three different types of chicken salt so that he could taste them and taste the differences of them.

[A]

Was it that Portland company that you gave us finishing salt from?

[C]

No, but I do really like the finishing. We're big salt people here, but this is more of an Australian thing because Australians like chicken salt on their fries. It's just salt that's flavored like chicken. It usually has msg, but it's like a heavy flavor component there. So you're not just having salted anything. You're having chicken flavored salt. Anyway, we have three different types of chicken salt in this house because it's a big deal. And I sent all three different types to Mike so he could taste the differences of them.

[B]

Has he reported back?

[C]

Yeah, he. He liked the one that had the most msg, which I think is.

[B]

Okay. What's the word on MSG these days? Because I feel like in the 90s, it was like, whoa, whoa, we got to put no MSG on the packaging and stuff. And like now you don't ever hear about it. So are we just cool with MSG now? I don't even know what it is.

[C]

I think it was like a satanic panic type thing where everyone was like the Chinese.

[A]

I think it was a bit racist.

[C]

No one could determine it. Yeah, nobody could actually, like, as monosodium glutamate something, make sure that it actually was anything. And it is just a form of salt. So it's not good for you. It doesn't give you headaches. And I thought MSG was a form of sugar.

[B]

What does Satan have to do with it?

[A]

No, she's just saying it's like a comparing.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I thought it was a point of. I thought it was a kind of sugar that's, like supposed to Be a. I think the narrative was that it's. People put it in food to addict you. That was the narrative in like the early aughts.

[C]

Oh, I thought it was that it gave people headaches.

[B]

It sounds like it's okay now. I'm looking at it now, it seems.

[C]

Sounds like it's okay. Yeah, it's. It's always been okay and now culturally it's being more accepted. And I think Mike is also right in the sense that like there is a little. There's like a tinge of racism in there as well.

[B]

Yeah, I'm seeing that too.

[C]

It's an Asian food thing and like we don't want that in our food. And it's like it's frickin salt. Like let it go.

[A]

Speaking of salt and headaches and mystery ingredient and French fries, I got quite a segue. It's going to connect all four of those things.

[C]

I'm really excited about this.

[A]

Have you ever talked to anybody who says they're the sulfites in red wine give them headaches?

[B]

You know, not really talking to many people about wine, to be honest.

[A]

Sure. But the people who think that they're allergic to sulfites in red wine love to bring it up. It's like being. It's like CrossFit or being vegan. They can't not talk about it.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[A]

There are more sulfites in the average French fry than there are in a bottle of red wine. The amount of sulfur that's added to stabilize a wine after or to stop fermentation or to clarify it. And this is after six weeks of studying. I'm.

[C]

Somebody's been taking night classes and I've.

[B]

Also been screen capping his Instagram stories about wine and sending them to my father and he hates me so much.

[C]

Professor.

[A]

No, I'm just saying anybody who thinks that red wine gives them headaches because of the sulfites, you're wrong. There's more sulfites in French fries than there are in red wine. You're probably getting a headache because you're not drinking water and you're drinking too much red wine. That's probably what's doing it. Or maybe there's some other chemical in red wine that's giving you a headache that white wine doesn't. But. But it's not sulfites, you dumbasses. No, tannins are tannins. I guess you could have a reaction. If you're allergic to grape skin, then you might have a bad reaction.

[C]

Red wine makes me fight what's in the red wine that does that.

[A]

Higher alcohol content.

[B]

Yeah, I don't feel any difference between the people. Oh, if I have tequila, I'm gonna have a crazy night. Or if I have this, it's gonna make me be sad or something. Every alcohol I've ever had has the exact same effect on me. Is that normal?

[A]

I, I, I feel like wine, I'm more mellow if I have a few too many.

[B]

Yeah, you know what? I guess you're right on that.

[A]

There's also, like sparkling wine and bubbly drinks. Carbon dioxide can contribute to getting you a bit woozier. So it might feel like you're getting quote unquote drunk more quickly, but the carbon dioxide is playing into that. Okay, so you're not, you're not imagining it if, like, champagne is getting you drunk more quickly. It's, it's just not just alcohol. But yeah, I don't know. I last I read and this stuff I feel like changes every year and then I end up sounding stupid. So I'm just going to say it as if this is the current science. I don't think mixing drinks ever had a negative effect. It was more that you're drinking liquors with different alcoholic contents. So, like, you're not pacing yourself as if you're drinking one thing. I please the doctors who listen to us tell us. And we've had this conversation before.

[B]

Yeah. I am currently of the mind that like, oh, the, oh, beer before liquor or mixing alcohols and stuff is a bunch of hooey, it seems.

[A]

No, wait, wait, wait, wait. We did get the email about the beer before liquor thing, and there is some truth to it. Oh, let me look. It's gonna take me forever to find something would like, agitate the bubbles would agitate your stomach lining more.

[B]

I don't want to learn something if it takes five more seconds.

[A]

Someone sent it in like two years ago and it was something about if you start with a certain one, I think it was the more bubbly liquids, it would agitate your stomach lining and then allow more.

[C]

You're before liquor, never sicker.

[A]

Yeah. So I guess maybe there is a but mixing drinks in general, I think maybe that's where that comes from.

[C]

I disagree. Every time I mix drinks, I do get a little bit more sick. And it doesn't mean that I've had six drinks. If I have three drinks, which I did last night, I had a rum drink because it was the launch of that new Lotus season. And I always like to have, like a tropical drink because I'm on vacation when I'm watching White Lotus. And then I had a whiskey drink because I felt like it. And then I had a vodka drink because it was getting close to the end of the evening and I didn't feel super great this morning. That's only three drinks. I can drink three drinks. But I think the mixing confused my tummy and it was.

[A]

I can get that.

[C]

Make up your mind, lady. So I think that. I do think mixing alcohol, different types of liquors can get me. But more than anything, red wine just puts up some of my defenses or something like that. And for whatever reason, if I have like a bottle of red wine and someone crosses me, I'm more likely to tell them I. I'm mad.

[A]

You're. Yeah. There's literally more alcohol in the vast majority of red wines because by definition the most of the red wines will need to ripen more on the vine.

[C]

Cool drunk. I don't think it's just the alcohol. I am a very considerate drunk. I think that there's something about red wine that makes me more irritable while I'm drunk. So I am.

[A]

But there could be something. Like it's not.

[C]

So I don't like it. Like there's something going on.

[A]

It could be something I'm not. It's just not sulfites. Unless. Unless you also get pissed off when you eat French fries. Then maybe it is sulfites, but the.

[B]

Opposite of pissed off.

[C]

Fries sedate me.

[A]

Yeah. So maybe there's something in red wine. There could be some sort of allergen that you react poorly too. But also, again, red. A bottle of red wine is anywhere from 13 to 15% alcohol. And there's outliers, but that's the general range. The white wine is going to be. I mean, white wine could be like 11 to 14 or even lower if it's a sweet wine.

[B]

Man, I had a bottle of wine and a bunch of beers last night and all I did was play like 10 hours of a bowed.

[A]

That sounds pretty sedate.

[B]

It was awesome. It was a great day.

[A]

Sounds like a good Sunday. Three day weekend Sunday.

[B]

Very fun.

[A]

Well, speaking of, do you want to talk about video games?

[C]

Let's do it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. We're coming off of an episode of not talking about new games. What was the newest game we talked about in Mario 64? Yeah, that tracks. No, it's Diablo 2. Oh yeah, I think that's it. It might have been Elden Ring. Honestly, I don't think we talked about a newer game than Elden Ring. Last time on the top hundred or top 64 games of all time, probably.

[B]

The newest one 80s we talked about.

[A]

A lot, but that was 20. But anyway, yeah, we didn't talk about new games last episode. And the onslaught of February is also well upon us. Dan, you have been texting me. Full disclosure, I have not started Avowed because I'm playing a lot of other stuff and I want to. It seems like a game I want to just like dive into and not deviate from and stack up other games. Yes, but you seem to really like Avowed.

[B]

Yeah, and good call on that, Mike, because, yeah, I have two other games that I'm sure the embargo will be up by the time this goes up, but no point in really saying what they are. But like other, other games that I want to play. But I was so into a vow that it's like I am not going to touch anything until I'm done with this and then I'll get to this other stuff. But Avowed, right before we recorded tonight, I. I'm on the definite final stretch of the game. It was definitely already I've played 50 hours of it.

[C]

Wow, I can't believe you've burned through that many hours of it. Oh my goodness.

[B]

I've been doing like eight to ten hour days, like early nights, like pretty much since it came out. Like, I love this game and it was not on my radar at all. Like, I like Skyrim, I like Oblivion, Fallout 3, the Bethesda style things, but like, you know, like story heavy RPG's not exactly my genre, but I figured I'd give it a shot. Got a code for it and it's like, all right, well, it's, you know, it's. It seems to be a pretty dewy one of those. And as soon as I started like going through the tutorial and it's like, okay, kill these lizard dudes. It's like, oh shit. That felt really good. Oh, wow. Okay, wow. The dodge is really good here. The parrying and blocking and. Oh shit. Okay, now you get magic. The magic feels really good and it's really easy to switch between all these different, you know, if you want to do a bow, if you want to do a gun, if you want to do magic. Like, there's just a lot of freedom in this game in the way you approach combat, your character exploring the world and like all of it pays off in a major way. Like, I think exploring is so much better than I expected. Like, the moving around is great. The like parkouring around stuff. It's Kind of that thing of, like, I almost like breaking it in a way that, like, okay, I'm probably not supposed to be able to go over this rock cliff here. I'm probably supposed to find, like, an entrance. But you can kind of, like, you know, like, in Skyrim, you could do that, where you just kind of, like, jump diagonally up, like, a thing or whatever. And you kind of felt like you were cheating in a bit, in a way, but it was, like, fun. And there's some of that here.

[C]

But I think it's intentional, though. Like, I think they are trying to get you to play. I think I recognized as well. I'm also playing it, but I'm not nearly as far as you. I'm a couple hours in, and I think in the very beginning, they're like, hey, this building probably has some stuff in it. You can walk by it and not go into it. You can go in through the front door, and you can fight the stuff. Or what I ended up doing was I was, like, looking around, and there's boxes you can climb to get to the roof and then drop in through the ceiling and surprise them, which is what I did. And I thought it was really cool that they gave you lots of options, including, you don't have to freaking go in there. It wasn't a part of the main quest. There's lots of side places that let you play the way you want or just avoid it altogether, which I. I think makes me feel like I have lot of autonomy, but it made me feel like I was cheating a little bit. But it's clearly designed that way. But it felt good.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like there are times where it's like, you'll just approach a house on the side of the road, and it's like, okay, well, you could open this door if you want to burn through four of your lockpicks, or you could find the actual key to this barn, which is somewhere. And anytime I saw that, I'm like, I'm finding the bespoke key. I'm not just burning through my lock picks for this. And, yeah, just, like, searching around. There's lots of little stories, a lot of, like, little, you know, diaries and notepads to read. And it's like, oh, I wonder what happened to this skeleton who looked like it died crying on a cliff or whatever, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah, that stuff is just kind of littered throughout the whole world. But it's not like. I feel like with open world games, there was definitely this period in, like, maybe the 360ish era, where they were obsessed with like square mileage or even going back to like, you know, San Andreas and PS2 open world games where it's like you could fit 20 of that map into this map. We're not that pussy small map. We're a big dick map here. Like, that was the whole thing. It's just like how big the fucking map would be. And this is like in terms of square mileage. It's not like. I'm sure. I. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if like a Skyrim or a Fallout 4 or something's bigger. But I do feel like everything is just kind of crafted and interesting and, and well thought out here. That made me enjoy exploring this world a lot more, which it is. Like, it's numerous different open zones. It's not one big square. So it's like you'll spend, you know, 10, 12 hours in Dawnshore, then you'll move on to Emerald Ser. And there's like four of these different spots here. But yeah, I had a ton of thoughts while I was playing this because I was very surprised when I was playing it. I was thinking like, this is a killer game. I feel like this is in terms of just the game mechanics. This is the standard for the genre now for me. And then the reviews came out and I think largely they were positive. Like when I last looked, it was at like an ADN Metacritic. But there were definitely some like sixes out there. I think IGN and GameSpot both gave it a six. And you know, I was just kind of reading around, I was like, okay, I want to see kind of what the common complaints are here and everything. And I saw some of the more negative reviews or kind of medium reviews were like, okay, yeah, we played 30 hours of this game and I remember when I read that, I was like, I'm over 30 hours in it right now and I feel like I've barely started. I'm like, you know, just finishing up the second area. And it really got me thinking about just that nature of getting games early and trying to rush through them to review them. Right.

[C]

Because you would need to hit embargo and say you're running out of time. And these have this game in particular, in my opinion. I have like eight side quests already and I just started. So if you're not doing those side quests and you're not really exploring that game, you're probably missing a good chunk of what's fun about it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you're not just missing. You are definitely missing some really fun side quests. Like some of those are the best quests in the game. But also I think you're doing yourself a disservice in terms of what you're doing in the main quest. Because I do think that, you know, in a lot of the more negative reviews I saw complaints about like, oh, the crafting system. I feel like I was always overwhelmed and I was dying too much. I never had strong enough gear and I was reading that stuff and I was like, I've never run into that. I've never felt like I've died, but I feel like I've been dying the right amount, you know, like. And so I think like, oh, shit. I guess if you're rushing through this, you're missing fun stuff, gear, you're not prepared, you don't have good gear. So like, I've definitely been telling people, like, do the side stuff. It is good. It is worth it. Like.

[C]

Yeah. And you're leveling up your character, which you need the. I'm curious how you're leveling right now. I have, I think there's three. There's warrior abilities, there's ranger abilities, and then there's is magic. Yeah. I was gonna call it magic man abilities, but wizardry I think is the right one. Yeah. And I went magic man. And so I'm shooting these like balls out and, and doing a lot of damage. Those are all upgradable significantly. And I think you can also upgrade your, the people that you're with. And so if you're not doing this stuff, you're not upgrading yourself and your therapy, your companions, you're gonna be pretty weak sauce for those later bosses.

[B]

Yeah. And like the gear upgrading stuff I thought was great. Like it's not the most like intricate, you know, system. It's just like, okay, well, these type of things require these two items and these require these two leveled up versions of those items. And you can combine things to, you know, it's, it's all very well thought out. But like, you know, you've got your wand, which I'm sure if you're a wizard, you've got the wand which is like infinite. Like there's no finite ammo for anything.

[C]

I'm using right now. Mostly the grimoire.

[B]

Yeah. So that's the thing is like, that's what I love about wizard is I've got the grimoire in my left hand and a wand in my right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like you can just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like kind of range, throw magic at him, but then you can grimoire throw fireballs or rain ice down on them and stuff like that, so.

[C]

And they also let you switch your loadout really fast, which I really like because I'm. I'm mostly a distance combat person. I very rarely have a sword or a mallet. It's usually like a bow. And then my wizard skills. And so it was really neat for me when I ran out of. I forget what they call mana, but when you run out of juice, essence, whatever, and I would switch to my bow, and then I would bow them to death. And it was kind of sick that I like, it's a quick swap button. And so it's really nice to essentially use all my magic. Pop up, hit him with a bunch of balls. I killed a bear this way. And then when I ran out of magic, I switched right to my bow, and I just did mad headshots with my bow until he was down. And it felt great.

[B]

Yeah, it's the Y button on Xbox to switch. And it's just like switching guns in Call of Duty. So it's like switching to a launcher to knock down a UAV or something. But, like, like, there's also rings and accessories and stuff. So if you want to, like, okay. It's very important to me that I'm switching between stuff frequently. Like, oh, put on a necklace. That makes it plus 40%, you know, equip, you know, speed and stuff like that. So. And you can, like, you don't really get too pigeonholed into your skill tree because, like, most of my stuff was in wizard. Like, I'd say 90 plus percent of my upgrades I put into Wizard, But I would look at the Ranger stuff. I would look at it and it's like, oh, shit. This Ranger ability lets me, like, get twice as many, like, crafting materials when I pick up these things. Or, you know, oh, this charge ability would be good from the fighter warrior thing because then I can knock down walls with this charge thing. So it is very easy to just kind of like, you don't have to, like, put a billion points into a tree that you don't care about. You can just cherry pick, like, I want that thing, and then, you know, stay the course of the wizard and stuff like that.

[C]

So can you respec. If I, like, halfway through the game, I'm like, I actually do want to be a warrior. Can I switch? What does it cost me?

[B]

I don't know if it goes up every time. I did it once, and it cost me Like a thousand gold, which is not much at all.

[C]

No, you can. Yeah, okay.

[B]

Yeah. Money comes pretty easily in this, so, yeah, you can respect any time. And it's just like, it's very easy because, like, the weapons are simple to like. Again, you don't have to level up a bunch of different trees. Like, I did not have warrior stuff at all, but if I found this super unique, you know, exquisite battle ax or something, I could pull that out despite not having any, like. Like, points that go into, like, you know, heavy weapon abilities and stuff like that. So. And it's got all the usual rpg, you know, speech check stuff and everything, and, you know, intellect and perception and things like that that, you know, open up.

[C]

Yeah, the dialogue options have been really interesting. What did you go with? I went with. I went with, like, a shady guy. Yes.

[B]

I think me, you, and Bonk all did the exact same.

[C]

I went with a court auger. Yeah. I think I will go ranger. For the record, I'm much more early on than you, but for my first round, I did wizard just because I wanted to see what the magic balls were like. You can't just say, shoot three balls of magic that do damage and have me not be like, well, I know what a sword and a bow do, but, God, if I know what three balls do.

[B]

Yeah, well, Mary, that's awesome because, like, let's say you like having. Let's say you're a warrior and you've got a sword and shield. You could put a point into that, like, missile salvo, magic salvo ability, and just map it to your D pad. So no matter what weapons you have equipped or anything, you could have your sword and shield out. But you see a dude up there that's kind of sniping you, you can just look up there, hit a D pad and magic missile stuff going that way.

[C]

I do need to do that because I found it a little irritating. So I'm not as. Yeah, I keep saying this, but, like, I. I think I still have a couple qualms with this game that I haven't solved yet that it looks like you've had the time to solve. And one of them is, is that, like, I'm hitting right bumper to find my magic abilities. It's also how you can tell your partner what to do, which you need to do, because my partner has an aggro. So when I'm fighting a giant bear, for example, I need my partner to aggro the bear so that I don't freaking die so that I can shoot him. With balls. So I was constantly like, right, left, bumper, find my aggro. Aggro the guy. Left, bumper, find my magic, magic missile. I think a D pad would be so much smoother for me, but I haven't short mapped anything yet. Quick map.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It's super simple. So just when you go into that radial menu, so you hit lb, just highlight anything and just tap a D pad thing. RB is your grenades. But then one up, down, left, right, you can have anything. So if that can be companion stuff too. So if, you know, every time into a fight, you want him to draw a fire, map it to up. And then every time a fight starts, just tap up, you're good to go. And. But they will also do that stuff of their own volition in combat. But there are certain ones where you just want to be like, okay, use the vines and wrap that guy up right now. You know, like, you want some control over that. The vines are cool.

[C]

I want the vines. Those are the ones that they prevent you from walking forward. But I was curious. We were talking about intelligence and things like that. So because I went with a build that was a bit smarter, I had more intelligence options. And I can kind of tell when people are lying or I can kind of. I get, like, I think a bit of a warning in my dialogue options that are like, that's sus. There was a lady who was in a jail cell that had, like, a couple lies that she told me, and so I called her out on them, and she admitted that she was lying. And then later, it was like, you have a key. Do you want to unlock her? And it's interesting because. Because if you didn't have that much of intelligence and you didn't call her out, she didn't come clean about lying to you. You might have not opened up the gate and been like, you're a liar. Like, we don't trust you. But I ended up unlocking the gate, and she was beneficial, and she didn't try and kill me. So it's really. It's. I do like that type of world building. Same thing with Skyrim, where you can essentially be like, this person might be a liar, and I don't know the full story, but you trust people or not based on the dialogue options that you have.

[B]

Yeah, and there are big, like, you know, that was one of the early ones where it's like, you know, oh, I wonder if I should trust or not. Because, like. And it doesn't make it, you know, super duper obvious with some. And some of Them have huge ramifications for, like, basically who you're siding with and things like that and what's going to happen, the fate of certain characters. And so there were a lot of decisions where I was like, man, I can't decide what to do here. And a lot of times before you have to say, like, this or that, you can say, like, let me check with my companions. And depending on. Because there's four companions you can get in the game, and you can have two with you at any given time. And so depending on which two you get, like, one of them, like, you might be like, oh, should I kill this person or let them go? You know, you might have someone in your party that's like, no, they killed my fucking family. Fuck them. Let's throw them into a volcano. And then you might have others that are like, yeah, she sucks. But, like, also, we have to kind of see, like. So it's really interesting. Like, kind of like, huddling with your dudes and just being like, I don't know, should we do something here? Like, actually hearing them out. And I've made this.

[C]

They have their own biases too, right? So they might not be right. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's incredibly well written. I love the companion. Except for the last one. Last one. I do not like that last companion. You'll know when you see it.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yahtzee, I like.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

Is it Yahtzee the mage?

[B]

Yeah, the second I saw her. What the fuck is this?

[A]

I've seen, like, several horny reviewers called her out.

[B]

Wait, like, pro horny?

[A]

There was, like, a poll quote on a review that I saw that says something about, like, the permanently horny mage. Yahtzee is fun to be around or something.

[B]

I thought you were saying people were horny for Yachtley, which would be, oh, I don't know. Weird. Okay. Okay, that's fine. Yeah, she is horny. Her character is.

[C]

First of all, you're allowed to be horny for a maze.

[B]

You haven't seen it. You haven't seen Yahsoe?

[C]

I guess I haven't seen yachts.

[B]

If anyone's horny for yachtly, they need to go to jail. Oh. Oh.

[C]

Based on visual or based on how they act or both. A little bit A, a little bit.

[B]

Of B, just more the. Like, I. I think it would be illegal. Like, it's just. This is just a weird animal. Weird Harley Quinn something or other. Like, I just. Just. Yeah, you should just. Just go to jail.

[C]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Check yourself into a jail if you want to have sex with the Yadsley.

[C]

I really like the guy. I have now. He's Blue Kai.

[B]

Kai's cool. I like.

[C]

I like him. I think that he's really consistent. He's not annoying. He's been very helpful so far and his attacks have been beneficial to me in battle. So I like this Kai guy. I'm going to keep him around.

[B]

That fire, like, blunderbuss thing he's got that can burn like vines.

[C]

Very effective. Burning in general is very effective in this game or at least in the island I'm in now. Because I can't tell you how many times. Times it's like, damn, there's thorns in the way. And it's like, not for me. Not for me and Blue Boy because he can burn right through them. So it's. It's been nice to have him around, but I. I have historically had problems with annoying sidekicks. Like, it's easy for me to just kind of get tired of people who are around trying to help me out, what have you. I you saying it's well written, but I'm just curious just because of the amount of dialogue in this game and as someone who is just such a more dewy person, this might just be me because I don't gravitate towards games like Oblivion. This is not my bad.

[B]

Well, it's the story stuff. Yeah.

[C]

I still find it really talky with. You can talk to them at the fire when you camp for the night, and they'll have a little asterisk over their head if they have something to talk to you about. And so I was like, let's see what they have to say. And it was like a novel of crap that he had to say to me that I did not give a shit about, and I ended up up speeding through it, which I don't think you're supposed to do to really appreciate that game. But I did. And I just. I just want to say, like, from my perspective as like more of a dewy person, I thought it was a lot of text. Like, a lot.

[B]

And, you know, I. I think we're wired the same with that stuff. And just to ease your mind with that, I think each character has that opening salvo of just like, tell me about yourself. Where are you from? What's your deal? You know, like, what do you like? And that's what you did with Kai, and it's like a lot. And I don't know if you got the thing when you do that. Like, it's like, oh, he taught you this thing and you Got like plus two to permanent perception bonus or something like that.

[C]

It did, which is why I was like, I'll do that again. But I did speed through it and didn't actually read or listen or care. And I think that that's a bit of a. That's a bit of a knock on myself for not probably playing the game I'm supposed to. But I'm also just saying it was a lot to read.

[B]

I'll say the story stuff is good. Like all those conversations with the companions I thought were good, but just to ease your mind, when you go back to the party camp in the future, if you have done that opening, you know, oh, what's your deal? What's your backstory? Like there's. Everyone has that first, like here's seven questions and things. You go down and that's it. Going forward, after a big story beat or something, you might go back and there's a little thing over Kai's head and he'll just be like, man, that was up back there. Hopefully things are better. And then that's it. Like you've. You're not gonna have another like thing.

[C]

He's not going to tell me a mountain backstory because he's already told me his ex.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Each one of those has made me feel better.

[B]

Yeah. Each. There's three companions. Each one of them has one. One longer sequence of kind of getting to know him at the camp and then once you do that, it's just like quick check ins.

[C]

But the good news is, is that even though there's a lot of dialogue so far, I have enjoyed the dialogue and my companion was pretty fun. And the characters that I've met so far have also been enjoyable. I haven't been tired or bored by the story in this game, but I don't think I also have the main hook of the plot yet. I think I'm still in that intro area where they're like, like, like I'm killing stuff and I'm learning everything, but I don't. I haven't met a king yet and I feel like in this game you're gonna meet a king or something. Have you met the king? Tell me about. What's he like?

[B]

Well, the king, you. You have you've heard about the emperor? He's the one who sent.

[C]

Yeah, I've heard, I've heard about him, yes.

[B]

Yeah. You're basically going like. I heard someone describe as like fantasy Australia. It's like this like island where it's like Prime Minister.

[C]

Oh, you skinny back there's Dragons here. Oi. What?

[A]

There's dragons. They're with 3 XP.

[B]

I'll say. It's not a lot of, like, fantasy chicken, so.

[C]

Own you fries there.

[A]

He's called chicken. So that's. That's more Cockney.

[C]

Get him. Yeah, I turn into Cockney really easily when I do Australian.

[A]

Oh, he's got chicken.

[C]

So, no.

[A]

I just went into, like, a Hammersmith kind of Newcastle thing there, too.

[C]

Get him.

[A]

Yeah. What is the premise to this? It's set in the Pillars of Eternity universe. I know that.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't know that until a few hours in. And. And it made me kind of interested in it because I. I thought this was a. Interesting world.

[A]

You would hate those games, I'll tell you before.

[B]

Yeah, I know they're CRPGs, and I. I believe I would. But I will say I do find the world. World.

[A]

So much reading in those games.

[B]

This is the right way for me to take in that world.

[A]

Not that the world. I'm just saying I wouldn't recommend you play those games. But I wasn't maybe reading.

[B]

I wasn't at risk of it. I just. I. I can appreciate the world here because, like, yeah, so basically, you are sent. You're like an Adiran, which is basically just like the big conquering. You know, just like, they're like the military basically, of the. The main land here. And you get sent to this island to meet up with this ambassador, and Idyrians are starting to, like, come to the island. I won't give every beat here, but basically you get there and it's like, oh, man, everyone here hates the Darians. What's the deal? And then it's like, oh, why are some of these people fucked up? And they got, like, plants growing out of their face, and they're, you know, having crazy dreams and going crazy. So it's. That's called the dream scourge is this, like, pandemic situation that's going across the island. So it's a lot of, like, investigating that. It's a lot of, like, your character wrestling with, like, man, you know, are we the good guys, like the Idirians? Like, everyone here seems to fucking hate us. Like, I'm just here doing a job, and I'm trying to be baddies. Yeah, it's that. And you could. You could lean into it. You could just be like, I'm here. Like, there's a lot of dialogue options that are like, this is the law of Ediria. This is, you know, this is how we do things. And then there's like, hey, you know, like, I mean, I'll give you one example of a side quest. It's. You go to a brothel called the Mermaid's Den, and this lady's like, hey, we need you to. Can you go pick up the shipment? Like, there's a bunch of, like, assholes that are, like, hoarding this shipment, and I need my shit, and it's like, I need it to keep the business open. And I was like, okay, what the hell is this? Like, is this gonna be a Wire Season 2? Like, I need to go get a bunch of, like, you know, women or something. Yeah, that's kind of what I thought it was gonna be. And it was just, like, a box, and I took it back, and it turns out it's this, like, herb that is a contraceptive. And you can. You can. The dialogue options are. You can be like, like, this is illegal. This is a violation of a Darian law. I'm, you know, sending you in or whatever. But then it's like, I also. I picked the one where it's like, hey, yeah, just. No, don't be, like. She was, like, kind of worried about, like, oh, shit. No, don't worry about it. No, you're good. You're good.

[A]

You know, the charisma check lets you say get to.

[B]

So, no, it's kind of interesting stuff like that. Like, and it's. I think I liked the story. If you would have told me when I saw the, like, SGF reveal of this fantasy RPG from Obsidian and in the Pillars of Eternity universe, I probably would have been like, that ain't for me. But I like it. I like it a lot. Like I said, I'm, like, 50 hours in now. I feel like I'm literally going up to the last thing right now. I have.

[C]

What do you think your completion is? Sounds like you've done a lot of your side quests. Do you think that you've really stretched the boundaries of this game and have done a lot of the.

[B]

Yep. All these areas have, like, these six golden totems you can find. I've gotten every one of those. I've done every bounty. Every place you go to has, like, five bounties you can pick up. I've done every bounty, every side quest I've run into. Yeah, there's no, like, in game percentage count or anything like that, but, like, by the time I've gone on to the next area, every time I don't have a single side quest open up, there are a couple where it's like, oh, you got this like, metal that you won't be able to get forged until three things later. So like a couple of those. But like, I've been doing everything in this game and have not gotten tired of it.

[C]

I mean, I think that that says a lot and I appreciate that you haven't just like, made an effort to complete this game. You are really getting into playing this game and like, discovering all of its secrets. And I think for people who are fans of Oblivion and Skyrim, you kind of want someone who is invested in the world building more than just like ye average playthrough of the game. So I'm more inclined to listen to you. But I. I also find it fascinating considering like. Like how talky this is that this is something that you feel really interested in. Because that's what made me concerned when I was playing it.

[B]

Yeah, it's like even like with like Oblivion and Skyrim, which games I really enjoyed, like, I didn't. It felt very fantasy tropey to me. Like, oh, I'm the dragonborn and here's, you know, the war factions and the dragons and all that. It's like, all right, this is every Lord of the Rings thing I've ever seen. And I was assuming I would be buttoning through a lot more stuff than I was here because, like, I was listening to everything. I was like examining every option. I was really trying to think of what I would want to do in this situation. And it's made it a great experience.

[C]

Oh, that's great, Dan. I think it's great that you're enjoying it. I have also enjoyed my time with it, but I've been really torn because there's another game that I've really wanted to play and it was really difficult to decide each evening if I would play this or another game that I want to talk to Mike about. Unless you thoughts with a VI with a vowed. Is there anything else you want to say, Dan?

[B]

That's. That's the. You know, I just can't imagine, you know, the last hour I probably have left. I can't imagine turning hard on it.

[C]

It seems unlikely.

[B]

Yeah. Massive thumbs up. Did you pay for it?

[C]

No, I. I was gifted a copy. Why?

[B]

Okay. Well, that would have been a classic Kish. Okay. Yeah.

[C]

I did not catch it. I was. I was gifted a copy. Copy. And I will also say my last piece about this. We move to Tales of Iron too, that I got a Xbox code and I have not turned my Xbox on in a hot minute. When I. When I turned it on I was like, it was like updating like a year's worth of updates and it's really gotten me back into having my Xbox on and I really missed having my Xbox. So I think, I think Avowed is cool for doing that too. It's like also revived my love of my Xbox because for the record, when I play Game Pass, I play it on my PC. It was like exclusively, like, oh, I'm playing in my office on my PC and enjoying a computer game, but the Xbox I play on my couch on my tv, which is my jam. So grateful to have another couch game to play. But the reason I was torn and I haven't put as much time into Avowed is because I started getting really into tales of Iron 2, which Mike DMed us and said, you both need to play this because I'm obsessed with this fucking game. Mike, tell us about Tales of Iron two. Whiskers of Winter. This is such a cute little name.

[A]

I played the first one. I want to say it's 2021. The first game I think I talked briefly about back in the day on fire escape. Oddball Studio basically made very, very Metroid Light. More of a 2D side scrolling Soulsborne game.

[C]

Feels like soulsy. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Deliberate combat, slow paced. It's. The aesthetic is you're a bunch of rats. You're like a rat kingdom that gets assaulted. Yeah, there's always rats in my games.

[B]

Wait, why? What's the deal with the rats?

[A]

I think these are the only two. Or no, there's.

[C]

Are you sure they're not mice?

[A]

They might be mice.

[C]

I think they're cute.

[A]

It might be mice.

[C]

Rodents.

[A]

I'm really into rodents.

[C]

I feel like they're mice versus bats. And bats are the bad guys.

[A]

Bats are the bad guys in this. It was frogs last time, the frog kingdom you were fighting against, but now it's very like if you were just to look at the art for the game, you'd be like, oh, that's cute. But like someone gets their head chopped off and you see a spine and.

[C]

There'S blood around it within the face.

[A]

Yeah. But it plays out like a cross between the Witcher 3 because there are monster hunts here where you're following these side quests. Mythical beasts around the map, some Metroidvania light elements. You do unlock like new tools to get around different areas. Soulsborne combat. And that's reductive just by that. I mean it's very deliberate. And once you commit to an attack, the animation is gonna play out for better or worse. But there's also like monster hunter vibes in the sense that the big monsters you kill and the enemies you kill and the biomes you're going to are reflected in your armor. So you're getting a lot more different kinds of armor and weapons in this game. There are a lot of trade offs to each one. There's elemental weaknesses, but generally you're going out into the world, coming back and you're rebuilding the mouse kingdom or rat kingdom and you're building back up your hub, which is very satisfying. There's not really a tree. You're upgrading things along. You're just going out into the world to. To get each of these major buildings restructured at your place. But it really makes the first game feel more like a proof of concept or a demo. Because this is a pretty big game, like deceptively big. The more I play it, the more I don't know how close to the end I am. I'm in like the fifth big biome.

[C]

Do you have all your stuff? Like you've rebuilt your four different. You have your cook, you have your smithy, you have your. I think there's four that you have.

[A]

Yeah, you have to get the armorer and the. No, the smithy, the cook, the grocer. And there's. There's one more. I forget something like that, but I have those finished. But there's several. There's still a decent amount of question marks on my armor because they show you. It's like, oh, here's the hunter tree for your armor. Here's the bone armor tree. It's very monster hunter. So I still have question marks at the bottom of those. So I either haven't found the beast in a side quest or haven't gotten there in the story.

[C]

But so many side quests too, where they're like asking you to do things. I haven't found any of these things yet, but I was just curious your experience. In one of the first areas there was like a guy who lost his glasses. And I'm just like trying to find the glasses. There's another guy who's a fishing pole. So there's lots of different places for you to find things for people, but I haven't found any of that stuff yet.

[A]

I found the fishing pole and once you find the fishing pole, that leads into this whole other part of that side quest. I actually like those the most. Those are also when they lean into the Metroidvania aspects of it, where you really have to look for those. But if you ask townsfolk, they'll kind of point you in the right direction. And like, it's. It reminds me of like Zelda. It's like if. If you get stuck talk to townsfolk, they'll give you hints. But I love the combat. The. The mobs enemy mob variety they throw at you really makes you. It's a pretty typical like, oh, if they flash red, you have to DOD yellow. You can counter it. It's really crunchy. When you hit someone with a power attack, you really hit. It feels great. The counter attacks when you time them perfectly and then you also dodge the next dude and then you. It feels great. The panner recognition and the bosses. The boss spectacle is really impressive as well. Just like the first few major bosses, I was. The scope and scale of them. I was. It made me. The game feels very AA throughout out, but it feels like they really upped the budget from the first game.

[C]

They also put a lot of energy into the Perry system, which I think is really interesting because, like, this is a very difficult game. This is a complicated and tough game to get through. And they don't give you a lot of health. You have potion that you can refill at very few stations or berries. And it. Sometimes I would do. I would finish a boss on like the skin of my teeth and then there would just. They would just throw an enemy at me before I could get my next fill station. And it's like, I have one chance to get this done. And it's usually what they're really encouraging you to do is parry. If you get your perry right, not only do you obviously not take damage, but they fall over and they're prone. And it's like the best time that you can do a lot of damage.

[A]

Basically.

[C]

Yeah, you can fuck them up with the proper parry. But I just have to say, like, for. I. I like, really suffered through Sekiro. Like, I'm not a parry person. I really. I really suffer with parrying. This game is. I think the first time I got parrying, I was like, okay, they have a little. They have a little warning sign. The animation is clear and if you do it, you get a huge reward. And I was grateful for the parry system in this.

[B]

Now, stupid question. I did download this and start this and everything you're saying, you're both saying about this sounds intriguing to me. But like, like, I started it up and it was like. I feel like it was like 10 minutes of just like very serious narration about the lore of a rat kingdom. And I was just like, I. I can't do this. And I just turned it off. So, like, it's like, how. How much of that is there? Like, you're giving me. Take these rats seriously.

[A]

You're giving me PTSD from metaphor. Because it was not 10 minutes of intro in this game.

[B]

I got through the intro. It was through the intro, and then it was like, oh, here's a. Like, systems. Like, let's just start throwing, like, a bunch of, like, oh, that's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Talk at you. And it's like, this is just taking a lot to get into here.

[A]

I. I definitely think they keep introducing, like, oh, you're rebuilding your kingdom. There is a certain point where the gameplay, overall loop will come more into focus. It's like, all right, I'm going out to these different biomes to recruit the.

[C]

Bats, even get attack. Did you even let the bats attack? How far did you get? Yes, I'm talking to you.

[B]

No, I didn't.

[C]

Piss off.

[A]

Did you play?

[B]

I played. Look, is there, like, you know how, like, certain games are, like, arachnophobia mode where it's like spiders will turn into pieces of bread? Is there a way that I can just. They can be dudes instead of rats? Because I just can't take the, like, a rat kingdom seriously with, like, rat kings.

[A]

No, they're. They're. They're rats the whole game.

[B]

That's ridiculous.

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

I am bread. It's just a bread kingdom. That's being.

[B]

Honestly, I'd be fine with that because that's like. But it was, like, very serious Rat lord.

[C]

And it's like, I think you're getting. You're getting the hollow knight treatment because I think Dan is, like, severely judged this game based on one type of visual aesthetic.

[B]

That's why. That's why I said it was a stupid thing. It's like I. I realized it when I was going off of nothing. I was just like, this seems stupid. I need to get out of here.

[C]

You are denying yourself, I think, one of the best games of the year, and I think it will come up, and so you probably should give it another play. I have. Have adored this game, and it is the reason that I've only played a limited amount of Avowed. I think it is phenomenal artistically and for combat reasons. Mike, I agree with you. I think the boss fights are spectacular and they're so well earned. And you get this really fun animation when you kill them. It's sick. It's really cool to, like, chop off a snake or, like, snake's head or, like, kill One of these, like, giant, Giant, giant frog bosses. But what I've really personally enjoyed. I'm curious, your take on is, like, it's the world building for me, and I really do think that it's similar to Hollow Knight. There are stunning backgrounds in this game with mysteries galore of, like, why does this tree have all these, like, pieces of paper? Or, like, why are there tentacles of, like, a boss? Where is it? What is this giant ship in the background? And how is this going to impact me? And most of the time so far it hasn't. But, like, like, mystical world building visually behind me.

[A]

Yeah, Dan, I don't know if this answered your question, but it does. Once you get past, like, your kingdom's attacked, it's destroyed, and you're basically going out on a revenge quest to rebuild your town. You're now the Rat King. And you're. The second biome you go to is a bunch of, like, owl people. Owl people that live in a forest that you're helping out. And then you're recruiting someone from there to come do this in your kingdom. Then you go to, like, the bog marshlands where the frogs are. But, okay, you're the engineer. The smithy you're trying to recruit is like this alcoholic engineer who.

[C]

You can't talk to me.

[B]

I feel like the problem with me, I feel like it's a Lord of the Rings thing or it's like, because I think the hobbits are idiots and I'm just like, why would I root for these little idiots? And it's like, I just. Mice. Like, if there was like a bunch of mice bad guys, I'd be like, yeah, sure, but, like, I don't want to root for a little mice dumbass. That, like, I'm. I want to play as something cool.

[C]

Like, like, I don't know, he's a. He kills. You get pretty full armor, right? But he kills them. You think you're tough looking, Dan? You think anyone wants to play as you?

[B]

No, I want to be a contract man.

[C]

It's very impressive that a little wee mouse can kill a giant snake monster. I don't like the. The like tiny little weapons.

[A]

Literally, it's just Game of Thrones. But they just.

[B]

But Game of Thrones is just like normal people instead of little idiots.

[A]

Yeah, the Night King. Super normal for sure.

[B]

No talking about the people like, you can ruin.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is a me problem. I understand. You guys cannot enjoy Lord of the Rings because all these guys look like little helpless idiots. And I had the same feeling. Like, it's a bunch of mice. What do we. Why.

[A]

Why are they cool those A those little helpless idiots bow to no one. And B the rats cut off people's heads and kill giant snakes. You don't have to. I. If you don't want to play the game, that's fine.

[B]

I feel like I should. I just need to get past this.

[A]

You're not going to. There's.

[C]

You're a rat the whole game go to therapy.

[B]

I would rather be a rat than Elijah Wood.

[A]

Yeah, same. I agree there. Yeah.

[C]

I will say are so buggy.

[A]

I don't love how because you are backtracking a lot in this game. On the one hand, I kind of appreciate that the enemy mob respawns can be randomized. When I was in the forest I went back. I. I also don't think the monster hunts are the side ones are always that great. It's less involved boss fight and more whittle away its health down a third. Then he's gonna go somewhere else in the map go get another. The second third of his health down. Some of those are just not interesting. You're just fast traveling around the world going to do the same fight again. But also going back to what I was saying. The enemy mobs that respawn, I think they vary them. So when you are backtracking, it's not oh, it's three of those giant beetles right now that I need to fight. I know how to fight them. Just dodge them. And then once they. They trip and slide, I can hit their unshielded side. By varying the respawns, I think they make it a bit more unpredictable from area to area. However, when I'm trying to. Not that I'm really grinding in this game, but there's been several times I'm like, oh, I almost have this entire armor set. I want the last. I want like the bone shield. So I have the entire bone armor set. It looks awesome. It works. It's got electrical resistance or something like that. Really helpful. This area I'm going to. I know exactly where there are a few beetles because I need some beetle shells. And it's like well, the spawns have randomized and there's not beetles there. So you're just kind of wandering in certain times. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding how those respawns work, which is possible.

[C]

No, I think I also couldn't find full sets. What I think is interesting about the sets is that like you were saying, they're all elemental damage. So you're ultimately playing Pokemon. Right. Like, if you're gonna fight someone who does heavy ice damage, you want to make sure that you have the right attack. If you are attacking someone with a sword that does ice damage against an ice enemy, it does nothing. You're wasting your fucking time.

[A]

The snake is like fire you need. And when you use the weakness, it really fucks them up.

[C]

Like, also the spells, really. Yeah, it fucking kills them. And so what I think is fun is that by literally by changing my armor set and my weapon to be the right element, I was kind of melting certain enemies. That makes me feel like a golden God going back to those areas. I think what it's trying to get you to do is, hey, remember how hard this area was once upon time? Well, now that you have the right set of armor for it, they kind of. You can just really. I don't think you're cheesing it, but you're kind. You can burn through it a lot faster, which I think makes me feel really smart and. And good at the game also.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, the, like, the balance. Once you start getting more and more tools, it's like the balance between the bow enemies. It's like enemies will start reacting, and they're like. They know you're using the bow. You just killed them. That's their weakness. So they'll start charging you. So then you're dodging, you're countering, you're using. Using your spell. Just recharge. So you're shooting this giant fireball at a giant anaconda. Yeah. One of your four spells just recharged, and you're shooting that at them.

[C]

It's kind of like oblivion.

[A]

Oh, about. Yeah.

[C]

You're just getting these. Yeah, you're just getting these, like, spell. I just realized I also have the same spell systems. Yeah, it's really funny. You just have these spells in addition. Dan, by all means, you should like this. I think I probably will.

[B]

If I give it a shot, I probably will like it.

[C]

I think mechanically, it's your jam.

[A]

The serious storytelling, if this answers your question, really does not stick around. It becomes literally more just like, hey, go get this person who can rebuild this aspect of your castle. Bring them back.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't think it's overly cute, really. Throughout the owl character is a bit. It's not really cute.

[B]

I think it's just the issue that they're mice.

[A]

Do you not like rodents like in real life?

[B]

No, it's really. I mean, when I say it's like the same thing as, like, the Lord of the Rings thing where it's like, I think if Lord of the Rings didn't have hobbits and it was just following, like, Viggo Mor Mortensen trying to kill a big evil guy, I'd probably be into it. But it's just when it's like, who are these dumbasses? Like, I can't get past that.

[C]

He's a strong motherfucker. The main character of this game is a beast. And I think if you play literally 10 minutes of it, you'll kind of discover that because there's people that you're fighting with, and they just. A lot of people get brutally murdered in this game right in front of your main character, and he's like, all right. And he fucks people up. So I think you'll. I think you'll come to appreciate how strong these characters are.

[B]

If I played, I. I guarantee they're.

[C]

Not little weenie boys. They are. These are, like murderous mice men. So it's cool.

[B]

And especially hearing about the, like. You know, I. I love, like, in Rogue Legacy in any game or Hades does this too, where you go back and you're, like, leveling up your hub and stuff like that. Like, I'm a sucker for that type of stuff. So, like, I. I have no doubt that if I just got past my stupid thing, I would enjoy it.

[A]

Yeah, it's still. It's still a bit rough around the edges. Certain mechanical things, like the grappling hook. The, like. I don't know how to even describe it. The Hitbox. Yeah, for it to recognize. Like, to give you the prompt is you have to, like, if you run too far. And I'm at a certain point when you're backtracking, I'm just sprinting around the world, fast traveling and running back to. Oh, I remember there was a chest there. Oh, that. Mine had a lot of these enemies. I'm gonna go back down there. The grappling hook, I wish was a little more freeform, but you really need to be in its circle of influence for it to give you the button prompt LB or whatever it is on controllers.

[C]

I have a nitpick. I. The side quest that you can take, there's like bosses per area, and you can replay the bosses. And I accidentally hit replay boss, and I don't. I didn't want to. So I was like, I'll just undo that quest. You can't. Once you accept this quest, you just have to kill the fucking boss again.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

And I wasn't able to undo it. And that really Pissed me off.

[A]

Wait, what?

[B]

What? Sorry.

[A]

What were you trying to do that it didn't let you do?

[C]

It didn't let me on select replay. A boss. Like, I had a boss that you could redo the quest. You could redo the same boss quest. And I knew it.

[A]

There's also. I had a boss down to. Or no, sorry. I had a particularly tough mob down to like the last enemy. And he was toward the edge of the screen and I went to swing my sword or ax at him, whatever I was using. And it transitioned the screen because I went into the next area. So they all respawned after a pretty difficult, difficult fight that only happened once so far. But like, now I know why they bring up barriers during boss fights. So you can't just accidentally despawn them and respawn them. Yeah, it's. You could. Like I said, you could tell. It's like there's a lot of like, excellent craft on display here, but there's also some oversights that maybe they'll patch them out, but I don't know. It's one of those games I kind of like because of its rough edges in some ways. It's not a perfect game by any means, but I like it a lot.

[C]

I like a lot too.

[A]

Yeah. For them to Odd bug Studio, for them to make that first game. And I played that on Switch and I really liked how deliberate, weighty the combat was, how responsive it was, how the pattern recognition and like responding more quickly could feel like get you in that flow state after a while. But. But this new one blew that up a lot. It's a pretty big game for especially what it seems like at first, but I like it a lot.

[C]

Yeah. Going back to the world building that I've really liked about it. I got a couple hollow knight vibes from this game. Dan. I was in these corridors. There's lots of different ways to get into the same spaces. So maybe it will be like a wishing well or something. And going into the well does it. Or maybe there's like a tunnel. Tunnel system. Or there's bridges. And at one point a boss made the bridge collapse. And now the bridge is an entrance into these like tunnel systems. So that's cool, right? There's like lots of different ways in and out and they change based on the progression in the story. And in one area I. I think I was like, this wall seems weird. Why is there a ladder here when there's nothing here? And I pushed against it and it was like a secret area and it had Two little moles, I want to say. And they were, like, hanging out, and I talked to them, and they're like, hey, are you our, like, delivery guy? We're waiting for our burgers. We're really hungry. And I was like, no, I'm not your burger delivery guy. And they were like, all right, well, if you can you, like, if you find them, like, bring us our burgers. We're really hungry. There's, like, two little mole guys hanging out. And so I'm like, okay, well, I don't have any of this. So I leave, and I. I defeat a boss in the area, and I leave, and I come back later, as Mike was saying probably to get some armor and I kill some shit down there, and I get a bag of food. I get a bag of burgers, and I went, oh, my God, I have these moles, delivery food. And I fucking doordashed this shit right to them in their little bunker. And I delivered them their food, and they put on some music, and we had a meal together. And in this very violent, very intense, I would say, extremely stressful game because it's very soulsy in the sense where you, like, always are nervous that you might die before you get your next health. It was this moment of peace and serenity. We shared a meal together. I brought them their burgers. They were really thankful. I got some, like, fun little bonuses for my character. But I think, more importantly, I think I was just like, what a nice tonal shift that I got to have a meal with these little moles and, like. Like, relax for a minute. I appreciated that the Devs put this kind moment in this game. And to me, that is something that Hollow Knight did a lot where it was like, what a stressful world. And then all of a sudden, you'd be like, oh, you want me to relax and enjoy this moment with you in this beautiful little area? And it was just like, this game kind of gets that too. It just, like, knows when to let you chill.

[B]

Nice. Yeah, And I definitely had that. I did appreciate that, too. It's so just, like, grim. And then it's like, oh, this shopkeeper is being funny and then humming a little, so. And.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that's an ad. Yeah. I think that this. This game has vibes like that. I really do. I think it had its moments where it wants you to relax or. Or enjoy or. Or mourn, which I think is also really interesting. Like, there's a lot of people die in this game, and it's brutal. And I kind of started getting a Little off put. Every time someone was like, I need you to help me find my brother, I'd be like, your brother's dead, bud. We all know that. And we would just constantly, like, find these dead family members and deal with it. But, like, every once in a while, you will actually save someone. More often than not, they're dead. But it feels really good to help someone find their kid or their brother and actually bring them back. And they're extremely grateful. And it's meaningful because in this world, people die. They throw people away very, very quickly in this game. So it's. It's sick to save someone's life, it's sick to deliver burgers, and it's sick to kill a snake.

[A]

Yeah, I gotta go back and finish it. I think I'm like. I've heard it's like 12 hours total. It's really not huge. Huge.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

It makes the first game seem short, but it's still not like a. It. Like double A is even pushing it.

[C]

I think it depends on how difficult you find it as well. Because I've struggled on certain bosses and put like a. Like an hour into a boss, but other places I've kind of been able to breeze through. But I'd like to by the next time we talk as well. My play time is 10 hours. I don't even think I'm. I don't think I'm as far as you, so.

[A]

Yeah, I must be close. I'm about that as well, but.

[C]

Yeah, but I'm stupid, so I feel like I'll have to. I'll have to really burn through. I was struggling with some of those fights. Cool.

[A]

Another new game. I played a lot of Civ 7 at this point. Point. I don't think I love that game.

[C]

Oh, no. I've heard problems with the launch of this game, and I'm curious what you think about it because I've heard a lot of people say that maybe it came out too early. It was like. Or something.

[A]

I don't have any technical problems with it. I know people are, like, not loving the ui. I don't think it's as exhaustive with its tutorialization. In Civ 6, the Civil Pedia, you could just hover over anything and it would kind of explain it this. You need to dig a bit more.

[B]

I.

[A]

For those who don't know the basic. The big thing here is that whereas in past civilization games, you would pick a civilization you pick ancient Egypt with. The leader would be Cleopatra, let's say. Or you'd pick America and the leader would be Teddy Roosevelt. Here you're picking a leader who's going to be your leader throughout the ages. The eras, however, you're changing the civilization each time based on what you were doing in the previous one. So what they're trying to do is lean more into the emergent gameplay. Like, oh, here's how you. In the age of antiquity, you were really obsessed with expansion. So at the beginning of the age of exploration, here are a bunch of civilizations to choose from because you were so obsessed with expansion. You can now go with Mongolia, who's militaristic and expansionist, or you can kind of shift course because you were also going a bit more into trying to like build more banks and your economy. So. So here's the caliphates, et cetera. So like, they're trying to basically, I think, introduce more emergent gameplay into it and how it evolves. So you'll have these cool water cooler, like, well, I'm Ben Franklin, but in the modern age, he's in charge of Russia. It's cool on paper and I like that. Seems right up my alley. And this game is very good. Firaxis has always stressed the one more turn mantra. Like, they want you to stick around for one more turn. Civ 7 is very fucking good at that. More so than you know. The. The joke of each for Civ Game is like, wait for the first expansion. That's when the game really becomes what it's supposed to be with gods and Kings in Civ 5 or Rising Tide, which whatever it was with Civ 6. But I really have a hard time putting this game down. And the more I played it, the more I realized it doesn't leave that much room for intentionality. I think my favorite parts of Civ 5 and 6 were when I had a plan, I was like, okay, I'm gonna take over this island chain, this archipelago, because it has a ton of natural resources. I want. It has like, whales and it has like prime fishing areas. It would be great to build up the rest of my civilization and kind of become like my hub for naval if I need to go to war with my navy. The fun of civilizations is when like that plan goes awry and some other huge new objective comes up. Cause fucking Gandhi is being a dick on your east flank. So now it's like, well, now fucking Gandhi. Now he's become like, I have a vendetta against him. So fuck that whole archipelago gasoline whaling plan. I'm going. I'm going to build up my eastern front. I make plans in Civ 7, and the game just does not give me the room to see them through at all. It's like, like, oh, here's a new narrative thing. You have to choose between letting these immigrants in or turning them away or, oh, this world leader, the city state leader of Sparta, wants you to help them in this minor skirmish. Do you or do you not? Each turn I'm like, okay, okay, I gotta focus. I'm going to war against Confucius. He's been, like, putting pressure on me politically. He's turning a lot of the other leaders against me. His agenda keeps changing for the worse and he's hostile against me. The game is so obsessed with this emerging gameplay and giving me new scenarios at such a breakneck pace that I never feel as if I'm steering toward anything. Any goal I set, the game doesn't give me a chance to reach. I really have to ignore everything the game's doing in order to do that. So I don't think it's just a matter of an expansion coming along. I think they like. It's not a UI thing for me. It's a tuning of the core gameplay loop that I think this game needs for me because I think I've played a decent amount of it. I'm like 15 hours in two play sessions or, sorry, three play sessions. So they were long sessions. They were enjoyable on the surface level, but when I, like, reflected on them or just thought back, I was like, wait, what did I do? What am I doing? When I reload that campaign, it was really just like ADHD more than like actually planning out my civilization. So it kind of feels empty right now. Even though there's a lot going on. It's a very complex game. It's many parts of it are extremely well crafted and they carried over a lot of cool things from Civ 6. From a city building aspect, I love this game already. I think they still need to tune things there, but they just need to, like, get out of my way more often. It's back to, like, the pace of a Civ 5, where I'm actually working toward building up my nuclear supply because Gandhi's doing the same and I need some sort of deterrent so he doesn't just bomb my cities. Like it? Yeah, it's just overload the notifications that pop up every turn. It's. They need to scale back for me to really enjoy this game. But there is a lot of cool stuff there and if Firaxis has proven anything, they can do that. XCOM 2 war chosen, like, every expansion, for the first expansion they release of every game, it's like, oh, this is what the game should have been. I just put 15 hours into it before that expansion came out. So if anybody's on the fence about it, and if you really like seeing a leader and a civilization through and. And setting out a goal for yourself and keeping it in sight, even when other cool stuff pops up, this is probably not your game. This game really is going to, like, be pulling you in 18 different directions. And even when you do commit to one direction, I feel as if it's like, wait. But there's also all this other cool stuff going on. Come see this. I feel more like a tourist than a leader of a civilization, which is a huge problem for me in a game where the fantasy is building up this empire or cultural entity or world economy. So, yeah, I'm hopeful that they'll be fixing it or tweaking it, so to speak. And I appreciate what they're trying to do, and I think there's still a cool idea that they can get closer to. They just need to ease off a bit. What else are you playing, Dan, man?

[B]

Game about digging a hole.

[A]

Yeah. Is that what it's called?

[B]

Yep. You dig a hole in it.

[A]

You know what else?

[C]

Heard a game so perfectly named since Yellow Taxi.

[B]

Go Vroom.

[C]

Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one.

[A]

It's always after I'm talking about.

[B]

I know, strategy, something really deep where it's like, the whole time I'm having flashbacks to in gifted class, it was the one game we would have on the computers where it's like, we play Civ 2. And I remember, like, again, I'm easily the dumbest person in that class because, like, everybody else was really into it, talking about diplomacy and all that stuff. And I would get on there, and it's like, why is this not Command and Conquer? Why? Like, where. How do I build the tanks? How do I build the Kirovs? How do. Like. And it just kept, like, so from Civ 2. I've never understood that series. So the whole time you're describing that, I'm thinking about how it was just way too much. Me. Yeah. You toss to me and it's like, oh, yeah. Game about digging a hole. Yeah, that's.

[A]

That's your. Your speed.

[B]

That's my speed. Yeah.

[A]

What is. So what. Yeah. What is a game about digging a hole?

[B]

How does this work? So you dig a hole, you. I beat it in about probably an hour and a half on Stream yesterday. And you get a house, and you got a backyard, and there's a spot for you to dig a hole. And you got a garage. And when you go to the garage, there's an upgrade terminal. There is a, like, sell computer. So there's like an upgrade bench and like, a computer where you can sell the shit you find. That's pretty much it. And the upgrades you can do are your shovel, your inventory, your battery. Because your shovel is like an auto shovel thing.

[C]

They're like, probably once you upgrade it at first, it's probably no, it starts. Poke it.

[B]

No. Well, so it starts. It is an automated thing with a battery and a tiny battery at first, but it's just like. And I've heard. I heard the next lander guys were saying it's not great on mouse and keyboard because you have to click every time for the shuttle. Whereas controller, you can just hold the trigger. So when you start, you have this tiny, dumbass little shovel, and you go into your backyard. It's like, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And it's just like little tiny bits of dirt coming up. And it's like, ah, fuck, this sucks. And then, like, every once in a while, we see like, oh, there's a rock. Okay. Or a stone. Okay, I got a stone. You take the stone back to your computer, you sell a stone for a dollar, and you can, you know, it costs money to get your upgrades and the upgrades.

[C]

This is a game for silly people.

[B]

Oh, I love it so much unironically. And so it's like, yeah, you start, and there's, like, a lot of stones right at the surface. And I got 5st stones. I'm gonna go sell that for $5. Then I'm gonna upgrade my thing. Then you get a shovel upgrade, and it's, ooh. The radius of the thing you're digging is now much bigger. It's like, oh, I'm actually okay. I'm like, I'm down to my ankles in this hole now. This is great. And then you start getting further, and there's, like, you know, different types of, like, ore, stone, iron. And as you get much, much deeper, it's like gold, silver, platinum, diamond, stuff like that. And as, like, every upgrade you get just feels so good. Like, you get a jetpack. Because, like. Like, I was an idiot because when I was streaming, everybody said that they, like, did a circular pattern as they dug down so they could get out of the hole. And me, I just kept digging straight down. At a certain point, it's like, I'm Having trouble getting out of this hole.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I bought a jetpack and you can just, just, you know, get a bunch of rocks and jetpack out of a hole.

[A]

Wait, what are you. Is it first person or is it third person?

[B]

It's first person person, dude, I guess.

[A]

In his garage.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, you're just going deeper and deeper and you can buy little upgrades. Like you can get like lamps and stuff because it starts getting dark. And you can put lamps on the, on the walls and like at times you'll get like a little radar, like metal detector thing that's like, oh, you need to, you know, go in this direction. You'll find like a secret little. Reminded me of Barbarian. Like a secret like hallway. And it's like, oh, there's like a treasure chest in here.

[C]

Jesus. Damn.

[B]

It's not that scary. It's.

[C]

Well, there's other hole based scenarios that you could come up with besides Barbarian.

[B]

I mean, it was a hallway underground.

[C]

And it made a movie called Holes.

[B]

I have not seen Holes. I've seen Barbarian.

[A]

You got to go. You must go see Madame Zaroni on the mountain.

[B]

What's he doing? It's holes.

[C]

You should, you should see holes.

[B]

But I like holes.

[C]

Yeah, we know, Dan.

[A]

Yeah, but we didn't talk about. You saw Barbarian.

[B]

We haven't talked about.

[C]

I sure did talk about it.

[A]

Yeah, we talked about it tonight.

[C]

No, tonight.

[A]

Oh, it's on episode 100. Okay, gotcha.

[C]

No. Or yeah, you might have been.

[A]

Maybe I wasn't.

[B]

You might have stepped away. It was great.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[C]

Or maybe we discussed it before we.

[A]

Oh no, we did, but you said. No, that was last episode. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Anyway. Anyway, the game about digging a hole sounds pretty straightforward, but there's jetpacks, so maybe it's not.

[B]

You get a jetpack, you get lights, you get dynamites, you'll get to like lava rocks and stuff like that that you can't dig past. And so you can you dynamite. Yeah, there's health and you gotta. You can pay to get your health back.

[C]

It looks like a $5.

[B]

Was it $5? It's worth $5 for sure. So yeah, you just keep digging further and further and just have a good time.

[C]

I can see this as one of my like mental health. Like, listen, I'm putting some. I'm putting Simpsons on tv and I would like to play a game on the steam deck on my couch and not really give a shit. That is what this is. This is.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Wow. You're doing power wash simulator Whole.

[B]

It is that. It is the whole version.

[C]

Whole wash simulator.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

This is very simple, but I do. I do like simple mechanics for a night or two. I think, like, at a $5 price point, this is a reasonable investment for someone who is maybe, like, stressed out and wants, like. I consider this a cozy game. This is a. I can see that this is a cozy game.

[B]

I see it as a, like, dopamine game where it's like, you get, you know, after you're using the shovel for so long, you upgrade to the drift. And then just like, it's like, oh, man, this is an incredible feeling right now. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. If it brings you joy, I mean, I think that's great. And I. And I am an advocate for, like, simple mechanics. Right. Like, I remember, like, when I was doing my. I forget. I was like a. I was like a barmaid, you know, like in an rpg, and I poured beers and I mopped the floor, and I was like, this is a nice existence. You're digging a fucking hole. This isn't rocket science. You go down, and then maybe you. Sometimes. Once you're down there long enough, you go left and right.

[B]

Sometimes. Yeah, Sometimes you will. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. But I think it's probably pretty nice to stumble across, like, a chest with, like, stuff in it, right?

[B]

And they make it rare enough to where it matters. It's like, oh, this had a bunch of money and some dynamite and some lamps in it. It's like, oh, that's great. And then it's like, as you're going deeper, you come back up and you got a big inventory. It's like, I got 20 fucking things of gold and silver and platinum, and you cash in. It's like, I just got $3,000 from that hall haul, where it's like, when you start and you're getting, like, $3 a haul, you know, it's. It's very. Just simple. Just dumb dopamine mechanics. But it's. Yeah, I like that shit a lot.

[C]

I think that's great. I think this is simple and something I would probably play on, like, a stress. Like, to relieve stress after a tough day is probably what. How I would do this. So I. I'm kind of in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, dumb as shit, but, like, effective at bringing joy.

[B]

Yes, 100%. What is this face Mike's had for the last two minutes?

[A]

I don't know. I was just, like, making a face that I. Like a person would make when they're listening about a game about digging a hole.

[C]

It sounds very.

[A]

I'm not knocking it, it looks, I've been watching like the gameplay on Steam. The gifts are mesmerizing.

[B]

Yeah. Now that I know it's $5, that's like, that's a no brainer.

[A]

Yeah. Dan or no Mary, what's spirit swap?

[C]

Yeah. So on the other end of what I would call like cozy, relaxing games is spirit swap. Lo fi beats to match three to a bit of a mouthful. But as you can imagine you it is a match 3 game with lots of story and friend building mechanics. So you're like a new, you're like in a town, you're going over to people's houses. You play a couple match three versus games against them. Matching three is exactly how you remember it on your phones. You match the shapes and the colors. If you do that successfully, it puts, I don't know, immovable blocks on the opposing team's side like kind of like Tetris. Right. Where it's like building. And if it gets too high, that person loses, but they can do the same thing to you. And so you have to use these special mechanics that this game game is constructed to help break down some of those unshakable blocks. It's things like you make a diamond and then that gives you a special move or you can make a square and that gives you a special move. And those special moves can break up those squares and have you defeat. But they're not your enemies. These are your friends. And in other ways I actually think these are like romance situations. I want to be careful comparing it too much because I, I don't think it's like like Dream Daddy but like multiple times I was talking to these people and playing match three against them and I was like, I think they're coming on to me. And then like two seconds later it was like, do you want to be romanced by this character? And in all of these situations I said no because I, I'm not really playing this to romance. So you can say no, but I think it sounds like you can say yes. In romance. These like hot to trot little characters that are playing match three against you. So I'm a little, little. I'm not, I'm not completely understanding exactly that mechanic of it if it is like that type of game. But you obviously can build friendships and relationships with all these different townspeople and then you also get lots of items and then you can build out your cozy space so your apartment you can decorate with your own rugs and lamps and elements. And so you're kind of decorating, you're Discovering people in the town, Maybe you're romancing them, but ultimately you're just, like, playing this match three game. It's very simple. Simple stuff. Like, it's never stressful. I was never overwhelmed. And the music, as you can imagine, is lo fi. So you just kind of chill into lo fi. And matching three.

[B]

What Tetris block would you want to fuck?

[A]

The square?

[C]

The stick?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

The.

[A]

The T block. Not the T. The. No. Like, I don't even know how to describe it.

[B]

Is it a T? Help block. Well, there's the T block. There's the L block.

[A]

Yeah, no, not the T block. The. The one that.

[B]

The L block. Does it look like an L or.

[C]

Is it a Z?

[A]

It's a Z. Oh, the Z. Ooh, the Z.

[C]

You little freak. Yeah, there's always one.

[A]

It's already. It's already. It looks ready to go elaborate. It's a. No, I. I really almost said something vile.

[B]

Please, please, please. What was it, Mike?

[A]

What was it?

[B]

Was it. You can't leave the folks in suspense.

[A]

I'm not a creep. I am not a creep, Dan. What's this? Eternal strands.

[C]

What, you guys don't have anything else to say about spirit swap?

[B]

We talked about puzzle blocks.

[A]

Eat box.

[C]

There's no conversation about this.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Sounds nice.

[A]

I was just trying to move on. Not from your talking about the game. From. Okay, sorry.

[B]

I was holding back all of my, like, does everything have to have fucking in it thoughts. So, like, do we need to know?

[C]

I. I didn't know that this would have romance options. And in. In general, I did not want that from this game, so I didn't partake.

[A]

I don't.

[C]

I don't want that. I said no, but I was able to say no. And it was very comfortable. It wasn't awkward. I was just like, no, thanks, we're friends. Just the coffee and the swap three for me. So, I mean, you can not do that.

[B]

Is a puzzle game by itself. Is it good?

[C]

I think that it is a simple Swap3 game mechanic, so I think it succeeds at doing Swap3 mechanics. Does it get more complicated than that? Not really. Except for the. As I was saying, you get those special moves, which is like you've made an X out of your colors or you've made a T. There's different shapes that you can make that do special moves. But I. I think it is a simple game. I don't think this is like a complicated game. But I think the last thing I just want to say is visually I think it is very beautiful. The art person went off making these character designs. I just think they're really good looking characters. And there's like this fun frog that hangs out with you as well that.

[A]

I think looks really fun. This does look like visually appealing and.

[C]

The animation is so cute.

[A]

This reminds me of Goodbye Volcano High. Like the art style, the character design kind of. Yeah, like Hades meets Goodbye Volcano High.

[C]

And people are hot in it. Like everyone's attractive. But I was like, no, I did. I didn't want them that way.

[A]

Mary, are you just always horny?

[C]

Maybe.

[A]

I feel like you bring up horny games a lot and that's completely help it.

[B]

There are a lot of horny games now for the.

[C]

For in my defense, I was never like playing Hades and was like, like trying to get it on. I was just trying to play this sick game and then I was like everybody's hot. Like why did they make all these people so hot? And I, it was, I was like not off put by it. I was surprised and I was not prepared for how sexy they made all these characters. And then spirit swap, like they just kind of like made these good looking workout characters or whatever. It was like someone is in the gym and he's wearing these like little gym shorts and I was like, I'm just trying to swap three. So you're just throwing those hams in my face. But yeah, I don't. I mean in my defense, what I would say is like I've learned that I don't always want to be horny when I play games because I chose. No, I chose not to be romanced in this game. And in other games I have absolutely been like, oh, I am now into this weird game because they've made it hot. So it does happen to me. I, I didn't mean to goon.

[A]

I wish horniness was merely a choice for me.

[C]

It's a way of life for Michael.

[B]

I love video games and I'm also, you know, a horny as human beings will get. I just. They don't intertwine. I just don't like. I'm not against the concept.

[A]

Have you played? I'm trying to think of the game oh Dark Watch back in the day. No, that was a horny vampire Wild west shooter game.

[C]

I'm trying to think of like a horny game that could break. Break most people.

[A]

You're telling me you've never.

[B]

I mean I didn't even realize Hades was horny until I saw a bunch of people talking about so, okay, look, there was like, maybe, like. Okay, I'm saying, late 90s, maybe there was a sweet spot. A little bit of, you know, some Anna Williams and Tekken. A little bit of looking for the nude code in Tomb Raider. Yes. You know, I was a. I was a nude teenager. I was a teenager like, anyone. But I can't say I been horny while playing a video game since the 90s.

[C]

I think it's been a minute.

[A]

I got to put the controller down every once in a while.

[C]

Yeah. Hades switch in my brain. I wasn't prepared for that one, but it did get me. Hades got me for.

[B]

I didn't even realize that it was supposed to be horny. Like, I beat that game and I started reading all this stuff about it. I was like, oh, what? It's horny? Like, I just had no idea.

[C]

That did something to me. But I. I think generally I'm able to ignore it as well. But I also feel like I'm constantly playing games like, Mike. Like, I'm playing, like, some kind of mouse fighting game or some kind of, like, Ori, where you're like some weird alien forest creature. And it's like, that's not meant to invoke anything inside of me.

[B]

That's how I feel about.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

It's like, this is like a rat lady. You should not be horny about this.

[A]

What is this?

[B]

What's with them in the room looks?

[A]

Playing a game about digging holes. And yet he has a problem with rats.

[C]

Yeah, but you're rats. And he's been, like, digging holes with no boners. You guys are both a little rats.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

She's like a cat bird type. Something like, I don't know. That's. It's. It's weird when people are horny for things that are supposed to look like animals.

[C]

You are allowed to escape our regular earthly planes from time to time. Have you ever played Magic Mass Effect? Like, come on.

[B]

I did play all the mass effects. Are those horny?

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I guess. I know they're romance options, but I didn't consider them horny games.

[C]

Oh, my God. You have no dick. Okay, those games are.

[B]

Should I put that on the soundboard?

[A]

Yes. Dan, what's. Eternal strands.

[B]

Oh, I was way hotter on this. Took over my life.

[A]

I'm going to. Before every furry in the world comes to kill you, I'm going to.

[B]

Hey, I got no problem with furries. They can do whatever the. They want to do.

[A]

A furry, basically.

[B]

But I'm saying stuff's not for me doesn't mean it does not be for everyone. As long as you.

[C]

You don't have to be. I. But there is like an element of like. But if it has fur and ears, you're not supposed to be attracted to that. It's just like.

[B]

Well, I think it's a general rule. You shouldn't want to have sex with animals. I don't think that's not an extreme thing. Right.

[C]

I don't know. I mean, I think just frowned upon.

[B]

Probably illegal.

[C]

It is a spectrum.

[A]

I tried moving on to the next game.

[B]

Look again. Consenting adults go to town not kick shame or anything.

[A]

Is walking around conditioning the air. Walking around screwing each other's brains out. Okay. Yeah. Before I'm going to what is Eternal Strands. I think this is the third time I've asked.

[B]

I was. I was way hotter on the support came out. It's okay. This sounds much bet I'm not meaning to insult this game, but it's like it makes me think of Breath of the Wild meets Shadow of the Colossus meets Dragon's Dogma. But I want to specifically temper that with like. But definitely not on that level. You know, this is definitely a smaller budget, more like an indie title. It is good. I was having a great time with it and I do. I still think it's a really fun game. But yeah, Avowed, It's. It's kind of one of those things where it's like, okay, I can't imagine going back to finish it now because it's a lot of the same stuff. It's a lot of, you know, magic going out, crafting killing things to, you know, pick up things to upgrade your gear and stuff like that. And like, it's good. Like, it's got fun. Like the Shadow of the classic stuff is fun of like hunting these big colossi and hanging on to their wings while they're flying around and hacking at them. And, you know, it's the. The magic feels good. Has a bunch of weird physicsy stuff going on. You know, like force powers and shit like that. It is. It is a good game and I was having a lot of fun with it at a time where there wasn't really a lot else on my plate. But again, now that there is other stuff on my plate and Avowed is just such a bigger experience, I think it'd be hard to go back to like a smaller scale. It's not exactly like an Avowed. Definitely not. But it's. I just don't think I could go back at this point, you know, but it's good. It is a good game.

[A]

Eternal Strands kind of looks like at a glance.

[B]

Phoenix Rising. Immortal gods and monsters.

[A]

Immortals. Phoenix Rising.

[B]

Yeah, it's got that look. And I will say that the story, it's very like that Prince of Persia new crown where it's like I think I'm into everything but the story, the characters, the art style. And I don't even think that's just like a me.

[C]

Dan, did you say you're into everything but the story, the characters and the art style?

[B]

Yeah. No, I mean, yeah.

[C]

Yeah. The mechanics.

[B]

But I'm a gameplay guy. It's. It's a fun game. You know it. But it's like there's not a lot going on there with. With anything else outside of just, you know, pure gameplay loop stuff, which it does well. But. Yeah, it's just hard to get too excited about it. There's just, you know, bigger and better out there. But I'm sure this is cheaper. It's. So if you don't want to. If you don't have game pass or you don't want to spend 50, 60 on a full fledged thing, like it's a fun little title. Middle.

[C]

Cool.

[B]

I would have been way hotter about this if we talked about this before about.

[C]

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. I think that's everything.

[C]

No, yeah. Rude.

[A]

What did I forget?

[C]

Ender Magnolia, Bloom in the Mist.

[A]

That does not sound like a real. You made that name up.

[C]

That's a real game that I'm Ender.

[A]

Magnolia, Bloom in the Mist. Sounds like a game. You would. The name you would have made up for like Mike's Game of the Year.

[B]

Okay, you said that when I was talking about the pre. Not prequel. The one. The predecessor. Ender, Quietus of the Night. Ender something. You said the exact same thing. This is the sequel to that.

[A]

I said that?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, you said this sounds like a fake game. Yeah. Ender Lilies, Quietus of the Night. And now it's Ender Magnolia.

[C]

That's right. So it's a Metroidvania, Dan and I actually think pretty good. It's got some really neat mechanics where you are actually not fighting. There are homunculi. I'm going to try and say that.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And homunculi fight on your behalf. So when you hit attack, a person like comes out of you and slashes. The animation looks pretty sick. And you end up getting I think four different homunculi and they each have different skills. There's one who has like a gun or he's like your ranger. And so when you want to shoot someone from afar, he like kind of comes out of you and shoots them. Them. If you are doing a slash attack, there's one, there's this fun guy who, it's a charge and so you just kind of push forward and, and you can knock people off guard. A guy like shoots out of you and does that. So I think that's pretty neat visually. This is not my bag. You look.

[B]

God.

[C]

I don't know if I can describe this art style, but you look like a little girl. Very flat style drawn. I don't know, it kind of reminds me of like salt and sanctuary. Like it's a very simple, desaturated, sad world. But very quickly, oh, and you get a wolf, which I love. And I'll get to that. But I think what I have enjoyed about it is that very quickly this game ramped up and gave me several homunculi that allow me to play this game in lots of different ways. And you can upgrade your character. Characters with different skills, tree sets, they can be quite different. And so I feel like my build will be different than somebody else's build. I can have my person have a totally different type of gun or my ranger can actually shoot out like these like spiral moves that, that attack in a very different way. You get lots of different mechanics. You can have a double handed hammer type weapon or you can be quick with like slasher swords that are faster but they do less damage. And I was dashing and double jumping faster than I I before. I was like, I'm frustrate. I have another move. This game is constantly giving you your next move, your next upgrade, your next skill set that lets you progress the game. So I liked the speed and the progression of this game. I also like the map. I will say I've had like a couple like oh, like this map is so big. But it, it's cool that the map is taking you all over the place because it is so big. There's lots to discover and in that Metroidvania sense you'll be like, I can't get past this wall. This is so annoying. Within like 30 minutes you'll probably have figured that out and will now get past that part so it doesn't tease you for too long. It lets you get lots of secret doors that open up quick paths and fast, you know, just fast ways of fast travel so that you can, you can move in the area quickly. I am trying to see how, like, far I am in it. I want to say I'm probably. I'm well over six hours, seven hours in, so I am really liking it. My problem is, is, like, I'm really into the mouse game, so I'm probably going to finish that first. But as a Metroidvania enthusiast, I think Ender Magnolia is quite good and worth playing. And, you know, if you're like, I don't know what else to play. I've been playing this game with a hole for like three days. Like, give Ender Magnolia a try. I think it's a fantastic Metroidvania.

[B]

Yeah. I remember being impressed by the last one. Kind of came out of nowhere. And there's so many Metroidvanias nowadays. And I remember thinking that the, like, you know, when you talk about the different summons or however you want to call them, like, it's got an interesting take on combat. Like, I. I should check this one out.

[C]

Yeah, it's got a nice vibe to it as well. It's sorrowful, but it's not like, too depressing. And I also think, respectfully, they've known when to shut up. Like, I've really gotten to avoid talking in a lot of this game. A lot of it is you can just like, zip, zap through, like, you know, all of your humunculi's backstory and get to the fighting. So I also respect that about this game. It knows its place. Let me fight the boss.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Cool. I think that is everything. Pretty sure I don't need to talk about Dragon's Dogma 2. They finally uncapped the frames on console, so I went back.

[B]

Oh, that's big. Okay.

[A]

Okay. I still really like that game a lot. I like it about as much. But now it's not fucking chugging. I played like 20 hours of it over the last few weeks.

[B]

That's one of those where I, yeah, I got code for PlayStation and I played it a little bit and I have the pro and it was like chugging. And I was like, I had to go back and like, ah, can I get it on PC? Like, this is just like, the performance was like, noticeably annoying.

[A]

I love the pawn system. I love making my pawn, upgrading my pawn, trading with other people. Pawn. It's. If you can't tell, I like pawns. It's. It's a good game still.

[C]

We get it. You like pawns.

[B]

I have.

[A]

I'm a pawn addict. All right, you guys want to do emails or. Mary. What.

[C]

What you say I have one more.

[A]

No, you don't. Are you adding stuff?

[C]

No, I thought of another one I played.

[A]

Okay, wait, hold on. Is it.

[B]

I thought another one too. I've been playing Wario Land. Oh, wait, okay. Mary is adding.

[A]

It is fringe.

[B]

Bulldog Assassin.

[C]

I didn't type that. I died. That's not my game.

[A]

What is your game?

[C]

It says here it's called Crab Champions.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

That sounds more like a Mary game than the fake one Mike made.

[A]

Yeah, Crab Champions.

[B]

You more like a parody than Mike.

[C]

It's a real game that I played with some of my co workers for fun. This game is from 2023. It's a. Oh, God. It's a crap third person crab shooter. They drop you off on an island. You have to kill everything. Once you've. Once you've cleared the island, you get three treasure chests. You pick which treasure chest you want which will give you one upgrade. So you can choose if you want to upgrade. Maybe your defense or your gun or how fast you shoot or your reload speed or a million other things. There's actually so many different types of things you can upgrade and then each island gets progressively harder. I think I died on like Island 46 or something like that. So eventually like it gets so hard that it is very difficult to get through. But your first like 10, 20, maybe even 30 islands, like you can kind of of start churning through. But you're building your crab loadout over time. Over time you build like maybe someone who's so fast with one giant bullet gun. Or maybe you have like two shooters and you're like constantly like shooting out lots and lots of bullets consistently. But it's really, it's like a simple concept, but it's very fun and it has co op. You can play up to four people with these islands and I think it'll be fun if we played.

[A]

Cool.

[C]

I feel like you never have anything to say about my games.

[A]

I don't. There's not much to like.

[B]

You guys didn't have anything to say about the whole.

[C]

Yeah, I did.

[A]

I said it was spoke after civilization.

[B]

Well, that's.

[A]

Oh, I'm Mary. I'm the victim here. No one said after civilization you we suck it up.

[C]

You talked enough about it.

[A]

And ditto to you, crab champion.

[B]

I can keep talking about the hole we get to.

[A]

Let's. Okay, on the count of three, let's all talk about the. The I'll talk about civilization. Dan talks. No, I don't want to do that. It's not gonna be fun.

[B]

It's a good experiment.

[C]

I'm Glad you learned before you started that it wasn't a good idea.

[A]

Crab champions.

[C]

Crab champions. There's a boss fight at the end.

[A]

What is the other themes? What's the theme? What's the overarching? Or there. Is there a subtext?

[C]

No, there's no. There's no story. There's no dialogue at all. You start immediately as a crab and you. Killing.

[A]

Let me do. I'm going to do my Waypoint host character. What about the meta text, though?

[C]

There is no meta text. You're a crab.

[B]

Is that a real thing?

[A]

Is there an er text here?

[C]

What's.

[A]

I. You guys don't know what earth. Oh, God, Right, I forgot.

[B]

You're making things up.

[A]

You're not normally on Waypoint.

[B]

Are they still around? Oh, they came back.

[A]

What are. What are like. What are the. What kind of thematic undertow is. There are the characters standin.

[C]

It's definitely like an underdog story because you're like this simple little crab and you end up taking on these giant boss fights at some point. It's about David and Goliath.

[A]

Class disparity.

[B]

Yeah, probably Capitalism. I think it's got some thoughts on capitalism.

[A]

I get it now.

[B]

Colonialism, capitalism. All the isms. Yeah.

[A]

I'm just joking. I loved Waypoint.

[B]

I've heard good things.

[A]

Yeah, that. I don't know. It sounds like a simple game. And you. You didn't. I'm not gonna play it, but.

[C]

Oh, come on. It's your crab.

[A]

Maybe. Maybe I'll play it. What kind of crab? King crab?

[B]

Snow crab?

[A]

Like a normal one.

[C]

The red. They're orange. Red. But you can actually change your color, your characters, your skin. When you play, you get unlockable, so you can look like a green leaf and stuff like that, which I think is neat, but I think you just play it so that you can smash into stuff and kill it. It's hard to get health back, so you have to be really careful taking damage over time, because you don't. You're never guaranteed health.

[B]

That's how life is.

[C]

Yeah. Maybe it's about health care systems or.

[B]

The crabs under capitalism.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's privatizing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I like my games to explore these things.

[A]

Yeah. Digging a hole. It's just. It's. It's about how all of us just are trying to escape reality.

[B]

Capitalism.

[C]

All right, you've done enough. We can go on to emails.

[A]

Are the crabs gay? I just don't like it.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

You want to talk about emails? You want to. I do that all the time. Do you want to read some email?

[B]

Emails, sure. Yeah. Sweet.

[A]

Okay. We're gonna get into emails, but first. And I'll mention this again at the end of the episode, but both Vinnie and I, Vinnie being over at Nexlander, have been talking about a show we've been doing. We have several episodes recorded. We are getting closer to ready to launch. We are looking at March 3, 2025. That is basically next week. It's Fire Escapes off week. We're going to launch the show. I mentioned this a few episodes ago, but basically Vinnie and I are doing two co op total Warhammer, three campaigns. We couldn't come up with a better name. So I think the name is for the Fire Escape series, it's Mike and Vinnie Save the World. And then for Next Lander, it's Mike and Vinny Destroy the World or Vinnie and Mike.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

You know Vinnie, he's an egomaniac. If I say Mike first, he'll freak out.

[B]

Is he like a younger. Is he like a TikTok kid or what's is Vinny's deal?

[A]

He does some stuff on Chive and Snapchat. But yeah, if you're already subscribed to Fire Escape's video tier on Patreon, you will have access to this. It is a top tier exclusive series for us. You will see our whole series. We're basically doing that campaign every other week. We're going to put a new episode up on Fire Escape in our off weeks when there's no new podcast episode. If you want to see the evil campaign that Vinny and I are also playing in parallel, go subscribe to Nexlander's I believe it's their $10 tier. They do a lot of bonus stuff over there that we will be posting the Evil Campaign. So if you just want to stay on Fire Escape, don't want to worry about Nextlander and Vinny, you'll still see Vinnie. You'll also not miss an episode of Mike and Vinny Save the World. But if you want to see both, go subscribe to Nexlander. Basically, we're planning it so the next Lander episodes will go up when in the off weeks from Fire Escapes episodes.

[B]

So it's been fun to have both to follow. Like it's too.

[A]

You're not missing anything if you're only subscribed. You're missing another campaign if you want to see it, but you're not separate show. The. The series itself is not jumping to another channel, correct?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But check out nextlanders tears as well, they do great stuff over there. I'm frequently on a podcast they do called Never Been a better Podcast and that is basically just a Beastcast reunion PODC podcast. So it's me, Abby Bacalar, Alex, Austin, Vinnie, just shooting the shit about whatever. So they got good stuff over there. Check them out. As well as checking out our Patreon.

[C]

That's awesome. I just am such a fan of those guys and they do great work. So it's awesome to see you, Mike, working with them for some Patreon exclusive content. I think that's awesome for everybody. A win. Win.

[A]

We're having fun already. We've got a few episodes banked and. And some funny stuff has already happened that Vinny was not aware was in the game that I was hoping. So it's been fun. But anyway, for emails, as usual, you can write into firescapecastmail.com for questions, comments, concerns, which we take very seriously and don't pass over at all. You want to send in questions to be read on the show that is firescapecastmail.com this first one tonight from Doc Hensla. Dan, I think this makes sense for you to read it, considering the content.

[B]

Okay. Hey guys. So I recently fell down a 90s movie action marathon. This weekend after getting off of shift at the hospital, I watched Con Air, the Rock, Heat and Bad Boys. I've seen all of these movies before, but at the age of 36, it's been 15 to 20 years. Each of them had their flaws. But Heat was a movie I thought, I'm so fond when that when I watched it, I had to turn it off. The plot especially the end, was so awful. What movie have you seen before? Wait, what?

[C]

Heat?

[A]

Yeah, we just watched Heat recently. I absolutely disagree. It's still a good movie. But I think, yeah, it's. It's still a really good movie.

[B]

I didn't even see it back then. It's not a nostalgia thing. I saw it in my 30s, watched it again recently, a couple weeks ago. It's one of me and Bong's favorites. I think it holds up. Like, yeah, it's amazing. Like, as much as I love the perfect film, 90s action movies, I feel like Heat is a different level of like, filmmaking and holding up. There's nothing cheesy about Heat.

[A]

No, it's amazing. We watched it literally two or three weeks ago. It's great. But the question here I think is still interesting that Doc had what movie.

[B]

Have you seen before that you think of so fondly? But when you watch Again, it holds up like Dan's toilet after a Taco Bell night. Listen, Doc, I've said it before. Everyone makes that fucking joke about Taco Bell. He's like, oh, I'm gonna get Taco Bell. Feel bad for your toilet the next day. I haven't gotten diarrhea a single fucking time from Taco Bell. I've had taco bell 500 times, probably more in my life. Never had a single diarrhea incident. I've had more diarrheas after healthy Thanksgiving dinner where I ate vegetables as a child than I ever did at Taco Bell. So between not liking heat and thinking Taco Bell screws up my toilet, I don't know how I feel about this. Doc Henslow.

[A]

Yeah, Doc, you're not scoring points. However, I do have an answer. A movie that I recently watched, Amanda, and I watched, I think two years ago at this point that I decided is not nearly as good as I thought is Drive that movie.

[B]

I've heard that, and I remember thinking it was good.

[A]

I'll tell you what it is. It starts off on a high note. They're doing, like, the Coen brothers. Not much dialogue, but you see the process. You see his escape. You see the bank robbery. It's awesome. As soon as fucking William Vining Refn tries to do anything with characters, it falls apart. And I love Bronson. I'm not saying I dislike all his movies, but it's the stuff with him. Is it Carrie Mulligan or Michelle? I think it's Carey Mulligan. I think the love interest.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Their whole relationship where it's like this. It's just like,'80s pop synth stuff playing while they stare at each other without saying anything.

[B]

It's a good soundtrack.

[A]

Oh, the soundtrack's amazing. And it's still a great looking movie. And, like, the. The. The cinematography, but.

[C]

Oh, my God, my zoom just said. Are you playing music?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. My Shazam picked that up. Mary. Yeah? Are you watching Drive?

[C]

Sorry, guys. Yeah.

[A]

They just stare at each other without saying anything. And, like, college me thought it was really romantic. I was like, that's what I want. I want to. But, like, now that I watch it with someone I'm very deeply in love with, I'm like, this sucks. Like, I hate what who thought? Also, William Vining Refn said, like, Only God Forgives is a masterpiece. And William. Is it William Nicholas Finding Refn. Sorry. William Friedkin is always on my mind when I say Nicholas Finding Refn because William Friedkin interviewed him for, like, a movie Podcast and Nicholas Vining Griffin told him that he thinks Only God Forgives is a masterpiece. And William Friedkin laughed in his face.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like because Drive did very well and was well regarded at the time. And then I feel like everything that Refn's done since then has been, like, not loved outside of death stranding, of course. But.

[A]

I halfway through Drive. Drive, I told him, and I was like, I thought this was better. Like, I remember this being very good. No, it was her first time.

[B]

Isn't that the worst feeling when it's like you remember something as being good? It's like, oh, this one's gonna be awesome. And you can tell it's like, ah, this is.

[C]

Yeah, well, yeah, that doesn't surprise me about Drive. I think that's a bummer. But I remember when I. I remember being like, there's so much atmosphere. But I don't remember anything about. I don't remember one line or, like, one character development where I was like, that's good stuff. Like, I just remember the visual style, how it looks and how it sounded is how I remember it.

[B]

I remember someone gets beat up in an elevator.

[A]

Yeah, he stomps. He's like. He stomps his skull. And then he looks over at Carey Mulligan with his face covered in blood. And it does that. Like, he does a slow back out of frame. It's very artistic. Nicholas Vining Refn is a genius. Yeah, I think that movie has aged very poorly. Or it was always like that and I just grew out of liking it. I think is what really happened.

[C]

Sometimes I. I think it's us, right? Like, it's not. The. The movie hasn't changed. The movie is the same and we are now, like, in a different frame of mind. I think I have a good answer for this, which is almost every movie that was about, like, trying to get some in high school or call, like, those that, like, era where it was like, aft. I'm not gonna include American Pie because I think that was kind of of, like, iconic for its time. And I do actually think it has some timeless qualities, but I'm going to include a lot of the ones after it, including the main one that I think is, like, to me, prolific in this, which is Van Wilder.

[B]

I never saw that.

[A]

Oh, God. Ryan Reynolds annoys me in general these days so bad.

[C]

I think that I went through a phase watching Waiting.

[A]

Oh, I had to.

[C]

And Van Wilder, this was during his. His earlier years of acting. Very different than where he is now. But he's actually kind of the same annoying character in all of his films. But in these. In this earlier genre, he kind of played, like, the cool guy who was funny and had, like, really good facial expressions, who always got the girl in the end or something like that. And there was a time in my life where I was like, oh, good. Another teen sex comedy where, like, funny things will happen and they will. You know, And I thought with this college one, it might be like, I don't know, just other college films of that era where they would road trip. Yeah. They would fight with the rival fraternity or whatever, but in Van Wilder. And I actually, like, stumbled across, like, Van Wilder references somehow on the Internet. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe that I watched this film where they delivered, like, pastries to the rival frat that they didn't like. And after they were eating all these pastries and had finished them, they saw that the bottom of the basket was it. They were, like, empty donuts that they had jacked the dog off with. And they were eating. They were eating dog semen in these pastries. This is a plot point. This is a plot point in the film. Film. They're showing close ups of people, like, eating these pastries all over their face. This kind of is connected to what Dan was talking about earlier. And it's just like, they're saying, like, up stuff while they're doing it. Like, oh, man, I think I've had these before. Like, oh, they're still warm. And like, I just remember. I remember, like, somehow stumbling across this and being like, when did I.

[A]

This waiting. Waiting is really bad.

[C]

And waiting's up, too, because they play the game where they, like, show each other's dicks.

[A]

The goat. Yeah. I had to watch it on the floor of Dan's basement.

[C]

Blown away by this history. But this real stuff.

[B]

I don't think I've ever seen Ryan Reynolds in a movie.

[A]

Dan, why you made me watch Waiting on your base.

[B]

I didn't. I think it was Dr. Ryan did a donation during a charity Stream movie. I. I don't think I've ever seen a Ryan Reynolds movie.

[A]

It's just homophobic.

[B]

I saw that one video game when we covered that when B and I had a podcast. Dead people. No. Free guy.

[A]

Free guy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know about that guy.

[A]

You know, he's never out of character in. In welcome to Wrexham. Him and Rob McElhenny. Like, Ryan Reynolds cannot not be in that character. Oh, it's. It's truly annoying.

[B]

I'm guessing I remember liking Jungle to Jungle in 1997. I'm guessing that it doesn't hold up.

[A]

Well, I never saw it.

[B]

Tim Allen is a high powered executive in New York City and he goes to South America and his ex wife introduces him to a kid that was raised in like a tribal village.

[A]

Oh, jungle. Like concrete. Jungle to jungle.

[B]

Jungle to jungle. And then he takes this kid who was raised with like a blow gun and takes him back to Manhattan. I'm guessing that's not good.

[A]

Probably not similar storyline line. Probably still kicks ass is Encino Man. I actually don't know.

[C]

I think that that holds up, but I don't know.

[A]

I just love Sean Astin and I love Brendan Fraser. What was the movie I was speaking of high school kids trying to have sex? Super bad.

[B]

That's a weird. That's a weird way that's on the soundboard.

[A]

No.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Super bad. Bad is. That's the plot point. They're trying to get beer and then go to a party and hook up with these. With Emma Stone and I don't know the other actor's name, but that was like a defining movie for my high school years.

[B]

I like that movie a lot.

[C]

Still find the American Pie for like the Next Gen. Yeah.

[A]

I haven't watched it in a few years and I wonder if it's.

[B]

I don't remember enough specifics but like I remember it being like a smart like app.

[A]

It was Judd Apatow. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, I remember. I would hope that holds up.

[A]

I'm Bill Hader. Seth Rogen.

[B]

Like, yeah, a lot of talent there. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. He still fucking rules.

[B]

I don't know what the hell they're talking about.

[A]

It's awesome.

[B]

He did fucking incredible.

[A]

None others. None. No others come to mind. Like I still watch Annihilation pretty regularly and that movie, still really fucking good. Actually avowed the. The vine stuff growing out of people reminded me of Annihilation.

[B]

Yep. I've been thinking about Annihilation a lot during that. I'm hoping because tomorrow night Bonk and I are gonna watch 2001 and I haven't seen it since I was high school. Kubrick film, obsessive serious film guy. And I remember loving 2001 and she thinks she's seen some parts of it, but it's been forever and doesn't know if she's seen the whole movie. Movie. And I think I've kind of built it up because like it's Kubrick and it's like. It's like Kojima's favorite movie of all time. It's like, this is like awesome. So get a Little High. Watch 2001. I'm hoping that. I mean, it's like, it's probably gonna be like the second oldest movie we've ever watched together behind like casablanca. It's the 60s. I mean, this is an older one, so.

[A]

No. The Godfather part one. Wouldn't that have been before?

[B]

I think that was 70s. That was 70s.

[C]

God.

[A]

2001 was 60s.

[B]

I think it was late. I want to say it was like 69 or something like that. Yeah, that's.

[C]

I'm amazed that you even got it when you were younger, Dan.

[B]

I don't know if I did. I think I just thought Kubrick was very cool. And like, undeniably, if you like good.

[C]

Cinema, you would know that 2000 Space Odyssey was all about symbolism. Symbolism.

[B]

If you have a minute appreciation of good cinema. Yeah.

[A]

1968. God damn.

[B]

Yeah, it's 1968.

[A]

Yeah, I watched it a few years ago. It's like, it's hard to look at and not be mesmerized visually.

[B]

And the audio, I remember being like, this is incredible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe I'll understand more now as a refined symbolism. Attuned adult.

[A]

The only other movie I would say that I watched recently that did not hold up as well as I thought. And I don't think it's bad by any means still. But I did not like it follows as much when I watched it recently.

[C]

Oh, that's a bummer.

[B]

I liked it.

[C]

I still talk really highly of that movie and I still recommend it for horror fanatics as like a good vibe. I could see that it's maybe slower on your second go, like once you know all the secrets. Cuz what makes it scary is you're like, what is going on?

[A]

Yeah, no, I. I still think it's decent. I think horror movies just get like, go leaps and bounds every time a new one comes out. And then now that like Robert Eggers and Ari Aster are doing their thing, everything they release is just kind of changing the genre in some way. So I don't know, maybe it's just like horror is just evolving so quickly that it just feels a bit dated now.

[B]

But I mean, I've never been a big horror guy and Bonk isn't a big fan either for the most part. But. But barbarian, Seriously, both of us were head over heels for that movie.

[C]

That was fantastic. I mean, it's so well made and it is like extraordinary at its ability to create tension. And I also think as someone who is A horror aficionado and has seen most horror films out there. One of my favorite things is when you can play with the juxtaposition of horror and then have a bit of laugh and then back to horror and that movie kills it. Like there is genuine laugh out loud moments in, in that, in that movie and they will also. It will absolutely make you your pants with how scary it is. But it's funny, it, it's playful. It doesn't.

[B]

There's so much I would say about it, about what's surprising and stuff about it that like, I just don't want to do here because I wouldn't want to rob anyone of. Like you guys told me to like, don't look up anything about it. And I didn't. And that helped. Like, this is just a trust me type thing. Like, yeah, it's.

[C]

I think it's really important for a lot of horror films specifically because I think unlike a rom com or something like that, where when you explain the plot that might intrigue people. The whole point generally of horror is to understand what's happening. Right? Like a lot of tension comes from not knowing what's going on and misdirection. And this movie misdirects the viewer multiple times. So if you look it up, up, you're not going to be misdirected and you won't have the same experience as someone else. That's why I feel really strongly about honestly never looking at a trailer of any movie ever. I just saw Heretic, which is a really cool concept of a horror movie. And they totally misdirected me and I loved it. But it's, it's that like he always plays a, like a, a romance film lead because he's such a cut, cute cutie patootie. I have to look up his name. You guys are going to be like, of course Hugh Grant, he's like such a cutie. But in this movie he's not a good guy. And there are these door too, people talking about religion. And he invites them in and then like up stuff happens and he's like, yeah, tell me about your religion. And then goes down. The trailer misleads and like, kind of like I, I never finish trailers. I usually go like 30 seconds and be like, is this for me? But the trailer makes it. I thought it was gonna be like Saw where he was gonna like put them in like up situations, you know, like where it's like, are you gonna save the three people and move the train? Are you gonna save one person? What's Better for your God. It's not that at all. It's like totally different. But anyway, I actually kind of liked it just because of how stressful they made it. But the point I'm trying to make is I. I find it very important to not find. To not figure out the plot of a horror movie because the best parts of most of the horrors that I have loved have been, what is this movie even about? What are they trying to do? And how do they trick me into figuring out what it's actually about? The substance does that really. Well, if you look too much up, you'll ruin it for yourself. You will. Don't look up horror movies. I'm telling you, just watch them. They're like an hour and a half.

[B]

I will watch a trailer. Like, I'll do that, but I don't read beyond that. Like, I just showed Bonk the trailer for Mickey 7:17.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I'm looking forward to 17.

[C]

Looks dope. I'm very excited about that. That looks good.

[B]

We're gonna see that opening weekend and like, yeah, I'll watch the trailer and that will get me in the door for sure. Like, although if you say it's from the director, Parasite, that also would probably work. But I think the trailer was very good.

[C]

There's lots of ways to. To hook you. I think horror is a specific genre where I like to do it by word of mouth. When someone says, watch this horror movie, I just watch it. I don't really question it. And I find that that yields better results than looking up stuff and then possibly having it get altered. For me, it's just so important to not have that be messed up.

[B]

That's a special tier of friend where I feel that way with you guys about, like, Mary, you gave me the hard sell on Barbarian. And I was like, all right, I trust Mary. Mary wouldn't. I'm just going to go in blind. Mike with games has several times been like, hey, trust me, just try Outer Wilds or something. And led to this. So, like, yeah, you two, like, you know, Ben Hansen, Tim Terry, you know, I've got friends that I'm like, okay, you know my taste enough. I respect your taste enough. Where I'm just going to go off your recommendation purely, you know, I think.

[C]

I have a horror movie that I watched the other day that I was like, this was such my jam in high school. And now I was like, oh, it doesn't hold up anymore. It was this one. Oh, man, you guys are going to laugh as I try to solve this Riddle in real time. As I describe it, a person is being stalked, and they. Everyone around them is dying because of Urban Legends. And the movie is called Final Destination. Urban Legends.

[B]

Wait, is that the name of it?

[C]

Yeah, it's actually okay. It's not good. That's unfortunate. I watched it again the other day. It doesn't hold up, but the movie Urban Legends, when I was growing up, I was like, this movie's fine. So sick. Can I spoil it or is that not cool?

[B]

Spoil 1998's Urban Legend starring Jared Leto. I think that's fair.

[A]

Yeah, please do.

[C]

I forgot he was in this. Okay. Urban Legend starts out with a girl in the car, and she's getting gas on a rainy night. And a guy is like. He has a stutter and he's. He's scaring her, and he's like, I need to talk to you. Got to come in the gas station. And then she's like. Like, you don't need to talk to me. You're trying to kill me or whatever. And he's like, no, no, no, that's not right. But he can't speak very well. And so she runs back into the car and tries to get away. And as she runs away, he goes, there's someone in the back seat. And there's someone in the back seat with an axe. And they chop her up. And that's the opening sequence of Urban Legends, to which I was like, what the. That's so crazy. Fast forward. There's a girl, she's in college. People around her start mysteriously dying. Her roommate, who's a total God and keeps. She comes home and she thinks her roommate's. But she's actually being, like, choked to death by a killer. But because she thinks she's. She doesn't get involved and goes to sleep, and her roommate dies right next to her in the bed. Crazy stuff, right? Then she goes on a date with a guy who I think is also a famous actor. I think it's like Ryan Philippe or something. It's.

[B]

There's a lot of the posters are the most, like, 90s stars I've ever seen.

[C]

Reads in it. I'm telling you, Terry.

[B]

Eva Mendez. Is that Devin Sawa?

[C]

I. Yeah, that's the other guy. No. Okay. Sorry. It's the blonde guy from. I Don't Want to Wait for Our Lives to Be Colder.

[B]

Joshua Jackson. Joshua Jackson's in it.

[C]

Joshua. I'm looking at the cast right now, is in it. So they go on a date, and he's, like, trying to fuck her. And she's like, no, I'm not ready yet, because I'm a prude. And he's like, whatever, you prude. And he gets out of the car, and the killer puts a noose around his neck and strings him up, up. But he's on top of the car. So she's in the car freaking out because she can hear something squeaking on the top of the car. But it's him trying to get her to stay because he needs to keep his feet on the car so that he doesn't get killed. But it's freaking her out, so she drives the car away and kills him. It's sick, right in my brain as a child, when I was like a teen, I was like, this movie's so cool. All these deaths. So sick. Upon revisiting Urban Legends, this movie, it is so obvious who the killer is. It is so obvious what is going on. And a lot of these scenes are just grossly not well put together. There's plot holes galore in it. Tara Reid is, like, in the radio Host, and she's constantly, like, giving sex advice, like, leave him him, honey. Like, you need a. You need a real man. And the killer is in the booth, so she's running to all these different audio booths trying to avoid the killer, and the killer finds her. Even though she locked the door. They just appear in the door and they ax her to death. It's like. There's no. It doesn't make sense how everything happens. The timelines are up. There's plot holes everywhere. People are just constantly dying in it. I just don't think it. It disappears. It just didn't hold up the way that I had remembered this, like, iconic piece of cinema. So unfortunately, Urban Legend does not hold up.

[B]

But I'm guessing they got their stuff together by the time the third movie, Urban Legends, Bloody Mary, came out, starring Kate Mara. Have you seen that one?

[C]

I don't think I ever watched one past the third one. They even have Urban Legends, Final Cut.

[B]

Yep. That was the second one. Yeah.

[C]

4.4 on rotten tongue. That's a shame. I. I really like these teen slashers. I also think they're generational. I know what you did last summer was very iconic for me growing up, like, Scream. Big fan of Jennifer Love Hewitt. The Scream series is iconic. So, yeah, these are important to me. And Urban Legend was a part of that time Valentine I thought I saw in theaters, which is so fucking funny, because there is a new Valentine horror movie coming out for this generation. It just probably came out just Now.

[A]

Valentine or is it not My Bloody Valentine?

[C]

So the new one that just came out that you are talking about is called My Bloody Valentine and it's about a killer that's killing couples in love probably because they're a forlorn lover. Valentine is the one that came out when I was in high school and it was also about a killer that was killing people because they were a forlorn lover. And Denise Richards is in it. Can I just describe this, this scene? It's so sick. Denise Richards is in a hotel tub. I think she.

[A]

Sorry, what's the movie?

[C]

It's Valentine. Denise Richards is in a hot tub. I think she's gonna bang. But it like doesn't work out or something like that. This hot tub has a glass lid or like plastic lid cover. The killer scares her and she falls into the hot tub and they put the glass tub, the lid on so she can't breathe. And then they get a drill and they start drilling through the lid to. To drill. Drill through her body but they miss her. And then she like puts her mouth on the hole to suck oxygen because she can't breathe in this hot tub. But eventually they, I think they saw her. I think. Or they drill her. They get the right drill and they drill right into her body and she dies in there. It's crazy. I hope you like me describing these.

[A]

Because I could do it next to the hot tub.

[B]

I love this Richardson hot tub.

[C]

Dude. Google Valentine, Denise Richards hot tub scene.

[B]

We're probably ahead of you.

[C]

Bike's way ahead of of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Dan is like, I watched that scene, I didn't feel a thing. I didn't even know it was romantic. No, no.

[B]

With movies I got normal horny all the time. With movies I got super horny. Most of my horny was with movies at that age. I understand that fully. Yes.

[C]

Most of my horny is movie based. Okay.

[B]

Wild Things in Golden Eye.

[C]

Yeah, you're still normal. Anyway, I think there's a lot of horror movies that probably don't hold up like I wanted them to, especially from high school era. But I mean I just still have soft spots for a lot of these horror movies. Because when I was growing up I was like, that's fucking crazy. I can't believe you killed Denise Richards like that. But I doubt it holds water anymore.

[A]

Haha. That was a hot tub pun.

[C]

But she like sucks through the hole. So yeah, she probably.

[A]

Okay, well thank you, Doc Henslow. Minus the heat slander. You're wrong.

[B]

I can't abide that. No, I can't.

[A]

To this one from Jake from mediapa or is it Medea? I don't know. Hello escape Artist. I'm a longtime emailer, first time listener. In 2024 I made a New Year's resolution to read more. I started small and set a goal to read six books. I also joined a book club to make sure I hit that goal. I had such a blast reading the assigned books that I crushed my goal and ended up reading 16 books. Excuse me, in the midst of this goal, there's an email that came in asking for book recommendations and Mike gave some titles that I jotted down down with the intent to submit them to the group. I'm happy to say I just finished in the Distance by Erinan Diaz and I'm excited to hear what my group thinks of it when it gets discussed in April. I love that book. Anyway, this 2024 resolution has reshaped my thoughts on reading and now it's a full hobby of mine instead of something I do once in a blue moon. So my question to you all is, was there a resolution you made in the past that ended up being something you stuck to well after the year was made? Thanks for all the laughs. I hope your 2025 is starting out well. Jake from from Media Madea, Pennsylvania that's a great question.

[B]

Yeah, I try not to do too many just like specifically like oh, New Year's resolutions. Because I feel like that's just like, you know, I don't know if you're going to do something, just do it.

[A]

Arbitrary timeline. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But I mean there are definitely those times where it's like, you know, after the holidays, you know, okay, starting in January, I'm going to blah blah blah. And it's almost always like a health or food or exercise related thing. So I feel like not necessarily just a New Year's thing, but just a life long thing of trying to kind of hone in what works for me in terms of eating and exercising and things like that. Like you learn things and you pick things up and you ebb and flow and stuff like that. And it's, you know, you hope that each year you're in, you're out, that a couple of things stick with you. You know, it's like, oh, I found out that I like yoga. So I've been doing yoga for 20 years. You know, stuff like that. Or the running stuff, you know, the things I learned from last year with the half marathons that I'm bringing into this year with the full marathons and Stuff, but it's rarely like specifically a like New Year's resolution thing.

[C]

You know, I'm very similar to you, Dan. I. I almost avoid New Year's resolutions because I, I lose. It can depress me or make me sad when I break them. And so I try and give myself lots of leniency with my resolutions. And so, you know, when we're talking about the reading one of like having six books a year, Jake, like that's what I did. And I did not read 16. That's so cool that you were like able to read that much. I usually like barely hit my goals. So I leave my goals really, really loose and light so that I give myself escapes. If I have something that comes up in my personal life or like something happens to me. A good one that I did years ago was I got a Fitbit through something. I think it was like through like a work, it was like a prize or something like that. And I was like, cool, this is right by New Year's I will walk more. And I am so into walking every day now. And I make a point to walk every day. I've upgraded my Fitbit to the newest version. And it's not like I need to hit a certain amount of miles or that I need to go running three days a week. It's not that. It's my Fitbit buzzes once a day at least to be like, hey, you haven't walked yet today. And I make a point to walk every day. It's important to me. I even got like one of those like walking things that I could put under my desk so I can walk. If I can't, my foot is on.

[B]

An under desk treadmill right now.

[C]

That's so cool. I mean, I like that kind of stuff. And so for me, mine are much more lenient. But walking every day, making sure to read several books a year. I say several because it could be. And it could be too, based on how big they are and like the shit that goes down in my life. And then I'd say the last one that's been really beneficial is. Although I do go on and off of it, I had a New Year's resolution, I think three years ago to fast. And I still to this day use it as an excellent method to stop snacking late at night. But I can go off of it. But I go back on it all the time. It's like a great system for me to be like, you don't need to eat snacks after 10pm every night. You just don't need it. And so that's been good for me.

[B]

Yeah, I like what you said about not going too crazy or you said, be lenient with yourself on it, because I kind of do the mistake where I go way too hard too suddenly all the time. And so I finished that last half marathon in October, and since then, I put on a lot of the weight that I lost over all that stuff. I put on 20, 25 pounds since then. And it's like, all right, well, I need to be ready, you know, once May comes around. I'm training for the marathon. So. January, like, one of the few, like, strict things I told myself, you know, with January was that I want this to be my biggest steps month ever in terms of average steps a day. And so I looked back years and I was like, all right, I gotta be. You know, my best average was when I lived in New York City and I was walking all the time, and I got like over 13,000 steps a day. And so I told myself, well, yeah, and I told myself that, like, okay, January, you know, I'm gonna go for like 15 to 20,000 steps a day, you know, so that way the, the average will be the best ever. And so I got. I have this under desk treadmill, and I was walking, like hours a day. I was walking so much, and it was, you know, it's cold outside, can't go outside. So it's just like on the treadmill hours every day. And I did it. I. I broke my step record. But now it's like the intention was I was going to do that, and then that was going to lead into more like, cardio stuff, like daily, you know, runs and bikes on the peloton and stuff like that. But my feet are. Are up now because I went too hard all of a sudden, like, I put on, you know, 20 plus pounds. Now I'm walking more than I've ever walked in my life. And now my, like, ankles and my. The balls of my feet and all my planet for shida stuff is, like, shitty now. And it's like, God, there's. You got to find that middle ground. You can't just go from 0 to 100 and expect your body to be like, yeah, that's fine.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But that's the thing you gotta learn, you know?

[C]

Yeah. You just. I think that some of it is, like, just the mentality as well, because for me, if I break a New Year's resolution, I'll feel pretty bad about myself and be like, of course you were never gonna do that, right? If I was like, read a book every month and one month I miss my thing, I will quit and I'll be like, I'll just not do it anymore. But if my, if my limit is really reasonable or if I have a lot of flexibility, then all of a sudden it's like, you're allowed to have an off month. And this is for like everyone who needs to hear that right now. You're allowed to have an off month month. You're allowed, you're allowed for work to be too busy or something personal to happen, or for you to just emotionally or physically have an ailment of some kind and be like, now I need three weeks to like, re. Get like get my together. That's allowed. And so what I don't like about New Year's resolutions is it doesn't often give you that ability for you to just pick yourself back up and get there again. So like, give yourself that and like your, your New Year's resolution for a second. The purpose of it was just to push yourself. So take a moment, get, get it back together and then push yourself again. Even if it's a small little push.

[A]

Yeah. I also don't really go hard on New Year's resolutions, but in the sense that like I have had things become full fledged hobbies that I did not really intend on. Like, I do a lot, lot of indoor gardening. Like much of my every single Sunday is pruning plants, repotting them. We have skylights here, which is great because I can make use of that.

[C]

And like you've got lots of natural light in your place.

[A]

Yeah. So like we project we're doing now, I'm just putting hanging plants in every window. But like it. I'm always impressed by people who like, they can play an instrument, they know several languages, they have the, those like they, they just went hard and got really good at a few things. And I'm like, well, what are my hobbies? Like, I read a lot. Like, I'm definitely into wine, but I also like, I'm like, I forget that I'm. I also spend a lot of time like doing some indoor gardening. It's just something that I enjoy so much. I don't even think of it as a hobby that I would put like in my bio, if that makes sense. So like, I definitely kind of like, I, I think I got a couple plants a few years ago and now all of a sudden it's just like, it's. Parts of our apartment are like a jungle. But yeah, in that regard it's Actually, like, I don't. I haven't made a New Year's resolution in a bit. I definitely this year have already been. Or just like, not even this year, like, since last fall, have been running a lot more. Like, I'm. I exercise pretty often.

[B]

But, like, do you do outside in New York or do you do. Yeah. Is that hard with all the streets and crossings?

[A]

My neighborhood, my. Like, if I go like to the south end of my neighborhood back up, the water, the water especially is really running friendly.

[B]

There's a trail there.

[A]

Yeah. But also, like, I know the streets well enough to know which intersections are going to be dead when I'm. And which ones have stop signs as opposed to traffic lights, etc. It's. Yeah, it wasn't really a New Year's resolution. It's just like, I sleep so much better on average when I'm running more. I lift a lot. Like a decent amount. It's just like running adds that extra layer to my exercise schedule where I sleep really well. I get outside more even when the weather's shitty, which I kind of enjoy. So, yeah, that's definitely something that I do as more of a hobby now. But yeah, I don't really put much Stock in the January 1st, let's get after it kind of thing. If that works for you.

[B]

Cool.

[C]

It does work for a lot of people.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And like, there's like a collective thing about it. Like a. It's like, it can be inspirational or like, motivational for. To know that a lot of other people are trying and like, getting to the gym or cooking more or what have you. But, like, you know, it's. For me, I'm just like, I don't know that the month. That the calendar seems arbitrary. Why not Just like. Yeah, sort of. To Mary's point, there's like, do it when it's best for you and just go hard on it, but not too hard.

[B]

I think that there is just something, though, about, like, it's probably not a coincidence that it's, you know, January 1st, because, like, the holidays, like, I was definitely, you know, near the end of the year where it's like, okay, the holidays and travel and drinking and eating like shit and everything. Like, you know, I told myself, like, you know what? I'm. I'll do a strict thing. I'll do the full. I'm going to do the dry January thing. And like, at the time, that sounds so great because it's like, okay, I've been indulging. It's the holidays and I Need just like a reset but thing. And you know, January is where I did get much, much better at, like my diet. And I was just eating a lot more vegetables and just a lot more healthy things, but I was gonna do all these different things. And then also like a dry January. And it was the thing where it was like, you know, January 12th or something, it was some weekend, and Hanson invited us over for like a board game night. And it's like, look, I'm gonna have a good time playing, you know, board games at Ben Hansen's place no matter what. But like, it's like, it was like a Saturday night night. It's like, it is the most prime. Just like, let's have a few beers while, you know, we're doing this. And you know, obviously people that like, there are good reasons to. To stop entirely from drinking. But with me, it's never been a thing that like, ever caused any trouble and just like caused me to get kind of like a beer gut at worst, you know. So it's like with that one, I kind of like threw the towel in on it where it's like, you know what? It's not going to kill me. I know I said I was going to do this, that and all this vegetables and new diet and dry January.

[C]

That's so much, much.

[B]

I know. I'm going to let myself have some beers at the board game night. You know.

[A]

Have we talked about dry January on fire escape before?

[B]

I don't know if we have.

[A]

I'm kind of a snob toward not to people's faces.

[B]

I saw you posting some Instagram memes about a dry wine.

[A]

Well, so here's thing that's funny. And I'm.

[C]

And I'm Dry January. You only drink dry wine. That's funny. I think you sent that to me too. You look little scamp.

[B]

Was it the Pedro Pascal, Nicholas Cage thing where he's like, Riesling is dry. Yeah.

[A]

Dry cabinet truck and Riesling is really dry. I. I just, I don't. I'm. I'm gonna. I get the idea of taking a month off to reset, like as a cleanse. A lot of people do it just to like, show that they can tell. Show themselves that they can and prove to themselves.

[C]

Which is good. Yeah. To give.

[B]

Which.

[A]

Which is good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I just think everybody would be better off if it just practicing moderation throughout the year.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, I think that's way healthier. And like everybody I know who drinks a lot and then hits January and goes dry, they feel like throughout that January. And then afterwards they're like, well, now I'm just back to drinking. I don't know, maybe. Maybe people. Maybe they're.

[C]

Now I'm back to drinking excessively.

[A]

Maybe if there's people who dry, January really helps them. I just think if I don't see that one January correcting 11 months of really bad habits.

[B]

Yeah, I feel that same way. And again, this is a thing where it's like, I know people have had good success with this and everything, and I'm not saying it's stupid across the board or anything, but like, intermittent fasting and things like that. Yeah, yeah, like intermittent fasting. I've known plenty of people who've lost, like, a lot of weight on, like, intermittent, intermittent fasting. But it's a thing where it's like, okay, you do this thing for a month or two or however long you do it, you lose a ton of weight. That's great. But if you're not doing things that are actually, like, changing the way you eat and your relationship to that stuff and lifestyle choices, then it's like it's. It's a band aid and then it's gonna come off at some point.

[A]

Yeah, that the January becomes like. Like a sprint that you get through and you just muscle through. But what about the next 11 months? Like, I think it's just not sustainable. To your point, Dan, that's almost the equivalent of. Of running eight miles one day and then walking like 30,000 steps the next. It's like almost going too hard. I think, again, I think you're just better off if, like, in practice, moderation in a way that it's like, it's adding. Enhancing social situations, but it's never really becoming a detriment. And of course, I'm saying this as someone who, in my past college years and like, I've never. I'm not a stranger to binge drinking in life, but I'm just saying the going cold turkey for one month, to me, I don't. People prop it up as this big health fad, and I might be missing something, but it just strikes me as not super helpful in the long run.

[C]

For some people, it can be also the first step towards sobriety, which is just like, oh, wow, this is a cleanse. And I had a person who did it and was like, I like myself better and I'm not actually going to drink anymore. And they just didn't drink after that. And I was like, well, that's like a really cool relation to have. I think it can work. And I, I understand what you're saying, which is just like, it's not going to solve your binge drinking if that's what you're doing. A month off doesn't solve your binge drinking, but if it helps you come to realizations about yourself, then it is good. So I think own. The reason I like the fastest concept and the reason I think it works for me is because I can still, like, eat fast food and I can still drink. It's just after 8pm, I'm done. And it stops me from getting drunk on a Tuesday. And it stops me from having like, I don't know, taquitos, you know, from my freezer at 11:30 at night. It's just like these things that have given me like a little blocker to be like, you can, it's past 8pm Sorry, those are the rules. And it's given me something in my brain that I work towards. But I end fasting too. I like, go through periods where I fast and then I stop doing it again.

[B]

But are you doing it in the way that, like, when I've had friends that have done the intermittent fasting thing, it's been like I've got this two hour window where I can just go apeshit and I eat everything and then I don't eat for 22 hours.

[C]

Like, that's what mine is. Mine is eight hours on, 16 off. So I eat from noon until 8:00pm p.m. so maybe. But I don't eat as much as I can in eight, eight hours.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like I've heard people be like, they're just shoveling stuff in for like two hours. And then it's like, all right, I'm good until tomorrow.

[C]

I suspect if you're really, really hungry, you probably are like, binging. And I would say, like the first three days when I start my fast, I'm hungry because my stomach is like, but why aren't you eating at 9pm and it's. And once I get adjusted to it myself, stomach leaves me alone and like, it learns. Like, yeah, you eat from noon until 8. So. But I will admit, like, there is an oddness to it, especially when, like, people are like, well, we're all, you know, I started that bowling league. And so my bowling starts at 9pm and everyone's like, having like, lots of beer at 9pm and I'm like, it's past my fast, I can't. And it sucks.

[B]

Brutal.

[C]

I know. I've actually broken my fast a couple times because I gotta have a beer when I Bowl. You guys. Guys. It's so weird. I know it's hard, it's hard to break, but it's been good for me to have limitations and those rules. And so I wonder for a lot of people if like dry January is like, oh well, it's my dry January, so it's my rule. And it, it helps you to be able to say no in social situations or like say no to yourself, for God's sakes. Which is like in December. I don't say know to. If I want to have a chocolate sundae with a shot of whiskey injected into the middle of the molten lava cake at 2 in the morning, I do it. Cuz I'm a real piece of in December. So January is like my way of being like, stop. You're not allowed to do that for at least a little bit.

[B]

That, that's the hard part is like I feel like I'm all the way on or all the way off. Usually it's like the, you know, the crusty doll, the good to evil switch.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Literally like that's your problem right here. You've set it onto Fat Bastard. Yeah, I totally get it.

[B]

So it's either like, okay, well, if I'm in the middle of like training for like a marathon thing, it's like, well, okay, I have to be good about this to some degree. You know, I still allow myself the occasional, you know, I'll drink, I'll have fast food once a week or something. But you know, you got to stay on it versus like when that switch gets flipped off. It's so easy for me to just be like it like, yeah, fuck this weekend. You know, I had dominoes and you know, drank most days. And it's just like it was not a healthy weekend. It's like, well, I'll start training, training in May. It's. Well, no, you can't just. That's a problem. I can't just go from being a. And then go into being a marathon train guy. You know, like it's. You gotta just find that moderation in between the things.

[C]

Yeah. You've got.

[B]

Still working on, you know, you're too.

[C]

Fast, too fast, too fast. And there are people who do that, who are like, I'm gonna do a marathon. And they. Their body up, they like wreck their. You can like get shin splints or like, you know, hurt your ankle, bones, all sorts of stuff. Sounds.

[B]

I remember many years ago they used to this thing where they would bring in these guest hosts for Monday Night Raw. It was terrible. But One of them was this boxer named Ricky Hatton. And I never heard of him. I don't really follow boxing. And I guess I looked him up after that, and, like, he has two. He's Ricky Hatton, but also when he's not training for a fight, he's known as Ricky Fatten because he just, like, gets himself real fat and just eats and drinks, like. And then, like, when he's got a fight, he just gets in super good, like, fighting shape and stuff. And I think, like, owned Ricky Fatten, Ricky Hatton. And I think when I saw that in 09, I was like, oh, cool. I didn't know you could do that. All right. Like, yeah, you could just switch back and forth. That sounds great. That's probably not healthy.

[C]

So bad to learn that. And. And girls have. Everybody has different versions of this. But, like, for me growing up, a lot of that was, like, extreme dieting to lose weight, which is like, something just a lot of girls that I grew up with, dealt with and figured out. And it's just really, really bad to learn. And it's hard to unlearn to have those extreme measures. So maybe that's your aversion to Dry January, which is an extreme. Right. You're going from extreme drinking to extreme not drinking, which ultimately the best thing for you to do is to develop, like, a healthy relationship to vices or learn that you can't have a healthy relationship to vice devices.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's the harder thing. I think if. If I had. If I had a history of getting in fights and getting arrested and missing work and missing flights and like, that, I think that would be so much easier to be like, well, okay, I'm just gonna, like, not drink. But it's like, I don't know. I like drinking a lot, and I've never gotten in trouble for it, and I've never gotten health, you know, like, outside of just, like, weight and stuff and maybe like, a hangover anxiety thing. Like, it's when there's not that, like, need to wear like that. Like, oh, you have to. You got. Got the. Gotta get your. Together. It's easy to be like, well, whatever. It's not gonna be. What's the worst that's gonna happen, you know?

[C]

Yeah. It's a slippery slope, but it's good that you have that in check.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If it's something where someone really needs to take a step back, then, sure, go for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then if they realize, they like. Mary, you said your friend just likes Themselves better when they're sober than they literally were.

[C]

Like, I think I'm happier. And we were like, great.

[A]

January was the, like, the foundation for that. I think my thing is, like, when people I know who are going to get hammered on February 1st, I'm like, there's no point.

[C]

They're looking forward to.

[B]

There's no.

[A]

Yeah. If February 1st is what you're looking forward to the whole time, I think you should re.

[C]

Examine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Maybe have like drinks. Drink better, not harder. Almost like drink stuff you really enjoy in small, in like moderation and. And like. Cause again, like, alcohol can enhance social situations. It can help people develop like just.

[C]

A little bit of crack.

[A]

A little bit of crack never hurt anybody.

[B]

Just a smidge.

[A]

A little. A little cridge. A little cridgey crack. All right, well, thank you, Jake from Madea. I'm gonna call him Madea. Mary, you wanna read this last one? That's kind of directed at me, but I'm gonna. I pick out the email, so I indulge myself with this one. It's about wine.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Jake. Jacob from Wichita.

[A]

Oh, two Jacobs.

[C]

Okay, cool.

[A]

Cheetah.

[C]

Which Cheetah? Hello, escapees. Congratulations on a hundred episodes. All of this talk about not drinking or drinking in moderation made Dan thirsty and make him. Made him go get a beer.

[A]

And me taking an email about wine.

[C]

Congratulations on 100 episodes. I have a question. I'm going to Italy with my family in April and I just want to know if Mike has recommendations about certain food and wine pairings I should try when we get a chance. And more importantly, back in the first year of Fire Escape, Mary mentioned she thought blowing out your nose in the shower was the worst thing ever. And I'd like her to expand on that that because if anything, it sounds like the best time to do that. Thanks for all these laughs. 101 episodes. Here's to a hundred more. Jacob from Wichita, Kansas. Thanks, Jacob. Unfortunately, Mike doesn't have any recommendations. We asked him before this.

[B]

He was offended that we asked and.

[C]

He was like, I just don't really know anything about Italy and I don't want to sound ignorant. So.

[A]

Big book of wine grapes. No, really quick, before I let you do the nose snot and we go lowbrow.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I think I'm gonna. I'm gonna do a teach a man to fish rather than give a man a fit. I forget the phrase Beaujolais thing. To keep in mind, you're probably gonna be having a lot of pasta in Italy, depending on where you're going, there might be a lot of lamb, there might be some truffles if you're in Northwest. But you're probably gonna be having a lot of pasta. And the number one thing to remember is if you're having tomato based sauce that's going to be very acidic. So you need a wine that's more acidic or else you're going to drown the wine out. It's not going to be a successful pairing. So in general rules of thumb, if you're going to be having something tomato based, get like a high acid wine like a Sangiovese or a Nebbiolo. Second rule, if you're going to be having like red meat, definitely go for something more tannic. It can help like smooth out the fat in the wine and the tannins will be softened by the red meat. It's kind of a, it's definitely a complementary relationship. Third rule, do not be afraid to ask the Somme or the server or like whoever's there. Just say like, hey, what would you recommend? Like half the people you ask are going to be excited to recommend something to you. Especially in Italy. They take food very seriously. They take wine very seriously. I wouldn't worry about like specific kinds of wine because Italy has like 550 active grapes. So that's a fairly tall order to remember. But like you can't go wrong with like a Chianti with tomato. You can't go wrong with like a Barbaresco with some red meat. But in general, just ask, ask the people at the restaurant. They'll, they'll be more than happy to, to guide you.

[B]

I won't go to a place with less than 600 active grapes when I travel.

[C]

Yeah, it's a good, I like that you have your limit ever.

[B]

Look, you just don't wait till you get to week 10 of your courses.

[A]

Oh, my courses are going well. I don't, I haven't talked about it much at Fire Escape but. Mary, why does gross you out to snot in the shower?

[C]

I mean I think there's a couple things that I just personally don't think are shower things that I think other people do. So you know, if you are standing sit down for this because I think some people will be like, what? But like I don't think the shower is the place for you to brush your teeth.

[B]

No.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Why, what's the benefit save?

[A]

Because it's all time, I guess.

[C]

But you're really in there and you're cleaning your body so why not clean the teeth Right.

[B]

But I feel like there are certain. Like, I shave. I shave my head in the shower. You know, I. You know, like, the hair goes into the drink.

[C]

There's a.

[B]

There's a use to that. I don't feel like brushing the teeth. Like, you're gonna spit the. In the sink anyway.

[C]

Right? Does it. Does it make it gross for you? Can I just. Can you elaborate? Is it gross?

[B]

I don't think. I've just never even considered it, honestly. Like, I just. I don't think I'd be grossed out. I think I would just be like, why? The. I feel like the. The water would be hitting my face, and it would just be, like, slobbering like, toothpaste all over my chest and.

[C]

Yeah, you're, like, getting toothpaste on your.

[B]

I don't need that.

[A]

I don't. I don't like the thought of brushing my. My teeth with warm water getting into my mouth. That's gross to me. Like, I need cold water.

[C]

Oh. These are both very different reasons, but I. But I'm glad that we all kind of feel this vibe. There's a lot of people who brush their teeth in the shower to save time.

[A]

I don't think they're saving time. I would. I would argue, and I would ask them to prove to me, I'm gonna sit in the bathroom next time they brushes either shower.

[B]

Are they, like, brushing with one hand and soaping with the other? Because otherwise it's gonna take the same.

[A]

Amount of time taking the 30 seconds or 40, 45 seconds it takes to brush your teeth after the shower. And I put it into the shower routine. You're wasting more water, if anything.

[C]

But I don't think it's that rare. I think there's a good chunk of users that probably brush their teeth in the shower. So that's why I, like, preface. Okay, what percent do you think?

[B]

What percent of people do you think?

[C]

Our subscribers have plummeted to 15.

[A]

15.

[B]

You think 15 brush their teeth in the shower?

[A]

I think 15%.

[C]

I think they are a minority, and I think it's probably around 10 to 15. That is my guess.

[A]

Maybe if there's a benefit I miss missing like, that I'm being completely callous.

[C]

Tell me to ignore.

[A]

Please tell me.

[C]

Okay, so here's my problem with blowing your nose in the shower, Jacob. You say you think it sounds like the best time probably because you're cleaning your body, Right? So, like, why not clean this? Because you're blowing snot on your hands and it's going in between Your fingers and stuff. And you're like, yeah, but I'm cleaning those parts. But it's like, yeah, but blow your nose before you get in the shower and then wash. You're.

[B]

You're.

[A]

It's all the steam.

[C]

You're loosened up, loosened all the goop, but like it goes into a tissue and then you can wash your hands. I think there's just something I don't want. Snot all over my hair.

[B]

Oh, that sounds so gross.

[C]

And even if, and even if I rinse them in the shower post blow, I just feel like I'm a little gross.

[A]

I don't know, maybe I'm misremembering something. If that's what they're doing, then, yeah, that's horrendous. I think what he's saying by snot in the shower is like one of these over the drain.

[B]

I've never been, I've never tried doing that. But that's what to do. That.

[A]

That's way less gross than going into your hands for no reason.

[B]

They're both weird and gross.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

I'm just saying in general, are not, Are not acceptable.

[B]

I've never done a snot rock.

[C]

I'm not going to go into the privacy of your shower. So if you, you.

[A]

We're talking about it right now. We're in the.

[C]

If you blow your nose and you're brushing your teeth in the shower, like, live your best life. That's your thing. Me, I just don't think that showers are for like face hole things. I don't clean my ear holes in the shower. I don't blow my nose or do snot rockets in the shower. And I don't brush my teeth in the shower. That's for pre and post shower. The shower is for the crevices of the body. It's for all the nickname snacks. It's for all the innards and the outers get clean. But it's not for face holes. Like, leave your face holes for sink. Yeah, that's just my, that's just my standard, how I was raised.

[B]

I butthole in the sink.

[C]

Oh, my God. What do you mean?

[B]

Kidding. I don't know. I. I was trying to picture what that even looks like.

[C]

That's why I said face holes. I think you can get your holes in the shower. If you need to clean, clean your holes, which I do encourage. Like, you can clean your holes, but again, that's what the shower is for. It's for the body crevices and nooks. If you're like, and not everybody has like loofahs or whatever. So, like, if you're soaping up your hands and you're getting in your armpits and your butt crack and stuff like that, you're brushing your teeth, you know what I mean? Like, and you're, and you're getting in your nose and stuff, like, have some separation. Clean your body in the shower, Clean your face. Holes in the sink.

[A]

I, we've been talking for the past two and a half hours, whatever. And so I know where I am on, like, I could tell when Dan's looking at my panel and I love how when you just said that I butthole in the sink, I could tell you were looking at me, waiting for me to laugh, but I didn't get it. So you're just like, never mind. It's like you were leaning on me to laugh.

[B]

You don't know me.

[A]

I don't get it.

[C]

He knows you like the back of his butt.

[B]

I, I fully, I make sure you save butthole for last in the shower because it's like, I don't want to, like, but even if you like, you know, wash your hands and stuff afterwards, once I'm down there cleaning, like, once I'm in there and doing all this stuff in between the stuff. Get in there.

[A]

Get in there.

[B]

Yes. Once I'm in there, I'm not touching my face, I'm not rubbing my hands on my chest. I'm not doing any of that.

[C]

And you're washing. Right. Like you, your, your hands are clean post shower. But I think it's like more of like the mentality of like, you're in all these crevices and stuff. Like, I'm really not putting my hands all up in my face as I'm cleaning out the body. Like, it's.

[B]

Even though butthole is the last thing before I turn the water off, I'm given a full soapy hand situation. Like, I don't want butt hands going around day to day touching my house and keyboard.

[C]

Get out of the shower. I'm steering clear of you.

[B]

I want my butt to have nothing to do after the shower.

[A]

Yeah, he's got butt all over his beer right now. Are you loofah people?

[B]

No, I, I, I went into the loofah thing like in the last year. Yeah, I'm currently l person. I did just learn that you're supposed to swap them out. Yeah, I didn't know that.

[C]

Such a funny conversation. Yeah. Regularly it's like a sponge in the same, like it's accruing I would say quarterly.

[A]

I'd say use your best judgment, but. Oh, I would. Yeah, they're.

[B]

My thought was like, it took soap.

[A]

I would even say you could go more than quarterly. Quarterly at least. I would say.

[C]

I just.

[B]

Okay, then. I'm probably fine.

[C]

They're accruing stuff. I again, I think a lot of our people are like, listen, I'm not going to change out my loofah every two months. And it's like, that's totally fine. Like, just get a bunch, though.

[A]

When you go to the grocery store, they're what, like $2 or something?

[C]

Get a porch or ye old hand towel, which is what, like, you know, like a little washcloth. You can throw them in in the washing machine.

[A]

You know the reason I like no washcloths, like, little hand.

[B]

I feel like once it's up in there, it's like that needs to go right into the washer afterwards.

[C]

Do you throw away your underwear after every use?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No. But that's not like up in my butthole. The way that like when you're.

[C]

You put a. You put your loofah in your.

[B]

Insert the cloth into my anus. I like. It is very much making direct contact and rubbing back and forth as I'm. When you're sitting down, do with my boxers.

[C]

I bet your boxers touch your asshole.

[B]

They're hanging out down there, but they're not like getting up in there the way that like a woman.

[C]

You're putting your butthole touching boxers in your laundry where it's touching your shirts.

[B]

It is. It is a grazing of the butthole with the underpants. I think with a wash rag you are actively trying to contact the butthole, which would never happen with boxers.

[C]

I think that you can wash something in a washing machine and it is washing the butthole off of the item. And then you can use it again, depending on how badly that experience went. Because yeah, if you like on your loofah, just get a new loofah. Just like if you. Your underpants, don't take those to the dry cleaner, they're done.

[B]

I mean, I've never had skid marks the way my dad says everyone always has them all the time. I don't subscribe to that. I don't think my butthole is a very chaotic environment.

[C]

I'm glad that you have a really nice and neutral natural butthole situation. And I think we're actually on the same page. And I'm not trying to fight you on how dirty the things are that touch your butthole, but what I Am just suggesting is. Is you can wash a washcloth just like you wash your underwear and they're clean. Wash a washcloth here.

[B]

You know what the difference is? I'm not taking my underwear and rubbing it all over the rest of my body. A wash rag, next time it's deployed, is going to be going all over my shoulders and chest and legs and stuff.

[C]

So is your loofah.

[B]

No, we're not talking about that. We're talking about boxers versus boxers versus, like, a boxer. Like, even if it's hanging out by the butthole a lot. Yeah, I'm not rubbing the boxers all over my neck.

[C]

And I understand, but do you use the loofah that you loofah your butthole with on your face?

[B]

No. No, no.

[C]

Oh. Oh.

[B]

Okay. So this is important.

[C]

Do you have a butthole loofah, Dan?

[B]

No, no.

[A]

This is important.

[B]

Here's what I do.

[C]

It's like a tiny loofah. It's like this big and it's on a kid keychain. Just goes in plug. Yeah.

[B]

I do. I do all of my head stuff first. I do beard, I do hair. I do face before butthole is even on the table, top to bottom.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The whole head is just done first. And then I do loofah. And then I. I squirt the body wash on it. And then I do the big areas.

[C]

I do the.

[B]

The chest. I do the arms.

[A]

I do stomach as well.

[B]

Do I do stomach with the loofah?

[C]

You get in the belly but button.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get in there and everything. And then I do thighs and calves and everything.

[C]

What about your armpits?

[B]

That I'm getting there. I squeeze out the loofah. I put it up on the thing. I do the body wash and the hands. And then. Because you want to get up in the armpit. So I do just.

[C]

You do hands on the pits.

[B]

Hand soap on pits.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And then I go down.

[C]

No one needs to know this, but I'm so interested.

[B]

I'm just. We're breaking the. And then I go down to the guy bits there and I do the stuff with the soap with my hands there.

[C]

With your hands.

[B]

That's nice and clean. With my hands. And then last, I get the body wash stuff on my hands. And then you do your butthole work with your hands. With your hands.

[C]

Okay. So the loofah never touches your. Your holes.

[B]

The loofah doesn't even know I have an asshole. It is just that is the hands go in the crevice there and everything Makes sure that's good. And then you do a separate hand clean just to make sure all the butthole stuff is off.

[C]

Right. The last thing you do is clean the hands because those are butt hands. Yeah.

[B]

So nothing. There's not a single loofah or anything that even is been in the neighborhood of my.

[C]

I mean, I don't see a lot of fault with this. It sounds very anal. Like in the sense that it sounds like you're being very particular with what touches what. I don't think about.

[B]

I mean, I don't think.

[C]

I don't even think I.

[B]

That you know.

[C]

But you just started loofah ing.

[B]

I started loofahing in the last like year.

[C]

Okay, so before that, were you all hands? All time.

[B]

Bar of soap goes everywhere.

[C]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, I have no problem with bar of soap or soapy hands getting up in the crevices and holes. I'm for all of this. I like that you're a clean person and I think you're. You're doing great. And so I don't have any notes. I will just state like, you can also get stuff on your hole and wash it and then it's fine. And you can, you can also.

[B]

It's all been fine.

[C]

Yeah, it's all been fine. Maybe when people have a toothbrush in the shower, that's their asshole toothbrush.

[B]

Don't put the toothbrush in your asshole.

[C]

It's the only way to get a clean hole.

[B]

It probably would work, but. Oh, oh, I forgot say too. Part of the reason I don't do the loofah on the guy bits or the butthole is because it has such a naturally coarse thing. And I feel like that's like a rough.

[C]

Rough on that skin.

[B]

You don't want rough loofah, exfoliating towel or something on your bits or your butthole. So I. That's why it's like. It's a nice feather touch on that.

[C]

I have a glove. I bought these like exfoliating gloves.

[B]

It literally like an O glove for your.

[C]

It's an of glove for like dead skin. It's not for your butthole. It like I use it on my arms and it gets all the dead skin. It's an exfoliator. But I, I definitely. You could put it on your butt and stuff and have like a smooth, smooth baby butt if you want. But I wouldn't put rough surface on the tendy stuff. That sounds awful.

[B]

Gotta look into these of glove asshole versions.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, it's a. There's no Of Glove. The I. They are exfoliating gloves for regular parts of the skin.

[B]

And what you do with it is your own business.

[C]

Jacob from Witchita. I don't think that you should listen to any of this advice. In fact, most of you, if you're going to ask us for, like, really specific advice on, like, how to clean your body or, like, take care of yourself, use a pseudonym or, like, fake name, I don't think you'll want us to, like, give you true advice here.

[B]

But.

[C]

But I think ultimately. Clean your holes. Clean the holes. I don't give a shit if you use a washcloth or a loofah or you poke your hole, your hole through a finger, your finger through, like, your toilet paper and just stick it up your butt. But, like, please clean yourselves and then wash your hands. Wash your hands, God damn it.

[A]

And Sangiovese is definitely a good, safe bet with most pasta.

[C]

Thank you, Jacob from Wichita.

[A]

All right.

[C]

Learned so much about Dan. Thank you. Way too much about Dan.

[B]

Don't ask me a question. I'm gonna answer it.

[C]

He didn't ask. Your name wasn't named in this email. You weren't even brought up Dan.

[A]

Mary. You were egging him on every step of the way. Don't play like you had nothing to do with this. I'm reading about moved over here. I had nothing. I was trying to distance myself. But anyway, that's firescapecastmail.com thank you, Jacob. Thank you, Jake. Thank you, Doc Hensla. Terrible taste in movies. Have fun in Italy. And what was Jake, Jake, enjoy reading. Let us know what other books you read. And I'm curious what your book club thinks of in the Distance. Well, that's our episode 101, Fire Escape Cast 100. I think this was actually a pretty good 101 episode because you got the rundown on us. Yeah. We'll be back in a couple weeks. One more reminder, March 3rd, if you're not a Fire Escape cast Patreon subscriber and you want to watch that show with Vinny Caravella and I, Vinny from Nextlander, you can subscribe. That'll be up on March 3rd. You'll also get video versions of these episodes. If you're normally just a listener. And then if you're not a subscriber to Nexlander's $10 tier, on which they put a lot of bonus content and video content, go subscribe there. You could see both campaigns Vinnie and I are doing. If you don't subscribe to both, you're not missing episodes of the show you choose to dive into. So that'll be fun. We also have a merch store fire firescapemerch.com is that it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Firescape cast firescapemerch.com fire escape merch.

[B]

I'm checking.

[A]

Although I think. Nope, nope.

[B]

Deep Dish pussy go to that.

[A]

No deep dish pussy firepushy.com goes to.

[C]

Why do we keep buying these?

[A]

So if you want to be. If you want to ad free episodes or you want to get linked to our merch store, go to deepdishpussy.com you can sign up outside of that. Dan, what do you have going on in the meantime?

[B]

Giant Bomb and Twitch and Blue sky and Instagram. Dan Reichard on everything Mary go.

[C]

Oh your voice. I've been pretty good on trying to keep up in the socials. Mostly Instagram. I've been trying to do better about Blue sky guy and Twitch. Usually on Mondays. Usually.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

I'm mainly here unless you want to follow me on Instagram. I I opened a 2001 Kean Classico. It was really interesting story. It's actually the last vintage but how do you clean your butthole with a wine decanter? I know. So it all connected when you.

[B]

When you were. You posted a thing of you decanting a wine wine thing recently and you said for those asking. It was one of the things I.

[A]

Said were concerned so I didn't realize how I post and like 8, 8 people responded asking why? What was wrong with that bottle? No, I don't do a for those asking unless people are asking. Yeah. If you don't follow me Instagram, Amanda and I we've been opening some like old bottles we have and one photo I showed was me pouring out the last dregs of an old wine which had quote unquote thrown a sediment which is, you know, like things had settled over the years and coalesced and it had just given off stuff so it becomes like a sludge at the bottom. So I posted just a photo of the wine in two glasses next to it. But then I posted also the sludge that came out at the end. So I think people thought the whole bottle was sludge.

[B]

Several people bottom eighth which is usual with that year of grape.

[A]

It's a tannic grape. Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Dan, I don't, I don't need to cater to your low brow sensibilities on my Instagram posts. I don't give a shit what you think.

[B]

No, I want you to keep doing because it's very funny to me because.

[A]

It annoys you bad. Yeah.

[B]

Yes, 100%.

[A]

But, yeah. That wine was really good.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

It was not. It was the second oldest wine I've ever had and it was still delicious. It was 24 years old, which is not crazy old, but it was really good. I'm going to open, like, an old wine for you at some point, Dan. I think you'd like it a lot.

[B]

I'll try it. Yeah, sure. It's great.

[A]

Yeah. But anyway, yeah. I'm Mahardi over on Instagram. That's it. That's our episode. We'll be back 102 in two weeks. In the meantime. Oh, Mary, I'm gonna promise it now, just so we stay accountable. Mary and I are Gonna finish residential 4 remake for Knievel.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Whatever we call it, we have. It's been, I think, six months since we did the penultimate episode.

[C]

I don't want to know. We're gonna finish it.

[A]

We're gonna finish it. That'll be up. If you're not subscribed to our YouTube channel, go subscribe to that. That's where we post those. We will finish it because that. We've got a few other lost chapters of games that we. You haven't played in Resident Evil, but we'll play those at some point. We'll try to do Revelations 2 at some point. But, yeah, we're also gonna Finish Resident Evil 4 Remake. Mary is. I've been telling her every week, hey.

[C]

We got a relationship kill you. All right, let's go.

[A]

All right, see everybody in a couple weeks.

[B]

Bye. It.