Fire Escape Cast #106

Summary

Fire Escape Cast #106 Summary

Release Date: May 5, 2025
Hosts: Mary Kish, Mike Mahardy, and Guest Kyle

---

Guest Introduction and Personal Updates

[00:41]
Mike: "Fire Escape has not been together in, like, three episodes."
The episode kicks off with Mike and Mary addressing the absence of their usual co-host, Dan Ryckert. After a brief humorous exchange about Dan's absence, they warmly welcome Kyle as their temporary replacement. Kyle, a seasoned professional in the games industry and a previous guest, brings fresh energy to the conversation.

[03:11]
Mary: "Yeah, that is important considering you just had your anniversary. Congratulations."
Kyle shares a personal milestone, celebrating 13 years of marriage. This prompts the trio to discuss the dynamics of long-term relationships, offering advice on maintaining a healthy marriage.

[04:10]
Kyle: "Fight a lot. But fight reasonably."
Tip #1: Engage in regular, reasonable conflicts.
Mary: "Fight with love."
Tip #2: Ensure that disagreements are underpinned by mutual respect and love.

They emphasize the importance of honest communication and the inevitability of disagreements in sustaining a strong relationship.

---

Movie Discussions

"Sinners" - A Communal Cinematic Experience

[05:00] - [09:09]
Mary initiates a deep dive into the recently released film Sinners, praising its communal viewing experience. She recounts watching the movie in a packed theater where collective reactions enhanced the emotional impact.

[06:20]
Mary: "But there's a lot of sexual tension throughout the entire film."
The film's pervasive sexual tension and dynamic acting, particularly from characters portrayed with comedic timing, are highlighted as standout elements that captivated both Mary and Kyle.

[10:20] - [12:18]
Mary contrasts Sinners with typical Hollywood blockbusters, expressing appreciation for its unique storytelling and cultural significance outside the Marvel or superhero genre. She advocates for supporting independent films that offer diverse cinematic experiences.

Critique of Musicals and "Mean Girls: The Musical"

[17:07] - [22:25]
Mary shares her disdain for musicals, specifically critiquing Mean Girls: The Musical. She elaborates on her discomfort with on-screen intimacy and the intrusive nature of musical numbers that break the fourth wall to express characters' emotions. Kyle and Mike engage in a humorous banter about appropriate behavior in theaters, underscoring differing preferences in film genres.

Nosferatu and Other Films

[23:05] - [31:18]
The conversation shifts to Nosferatu, where Mary expresses mixed feelings—appreciating the film’s acting and casting but finding certain performances, like Lily Rose Depp's, exhausting. The hosts discuss director Ryan Coogler's impact on cinema and the importance of movies as cultural events that foster communal experiences.

[31:18] - [35:09]
They delve into the evolving landscape of film, contrasting traditional blockbuster acclaim with the rise of independent media. Mary emphasizes the necessity of supporting independent voices to diversify cultural dialogues beyond mainstream offerings.

---

Upcoming Movies and Rumors

"Weapons" and Ryan Coogler's Direction

[25:37] - [35:26]
Mike introduces excitement for the upcoming film Weapons, directed by Ryan Coogler. The hosts discuss compelling trailer imagery and rumors surrounding Jordan Peele's interest in the project, speculating on its potential impact. Mary cautions listeners against spoilers but conveys enthusiasm for the film’s supernatural elements and strong performances.

[35:08] - [35:59]
Mike humorously critiques the trend of promoting actors’ personal anecdotes (e.g., Tom Cruise’s stunt work) as selling points for films, urging listeners to focus on the movie’s substance over marketing gimmicks.

---

Support for Independent Media

[43:39] - [51:01]
Kyle and Mary highlight the importance of supporting independent media outlets like Spawn on Me, Min Max, and other non-mainstream platforms. They argue that independent media fosters more thoughtful and in-depth discussions, which are essential for the evolution of the gaming and film industries. Mary underscores the value of critical analysis in media to drive innovation and prevent stagnation.

---

Video Game Discussions

"Blueprints" and "Expedition 33"

[52:52] - [70:45]
The hosts transition to discussing recent gaming experiences. Mike shares his continued enjoyment of Assassin's Creed: Valhalla and introduces Blueprints, detailing his initial engagement with the game mechanics and storyline.

Mary:
She praises Blueprints for its challenging puzzles and respect for player intelligence, comparing it to acclaimed titles like The Witness. Mary notes her satisfaction in solving intricate puzzles independently, highlighting the game’s balance between guidance and autonomy.

Kyle:
Kyle echoes similar sentiments, emphasizing the game's depth and the rewarding sensation when complex mechanics and storytelling elements come together seamlessly.

"Wild Keepers Rising" and "Drive Beyond Horizons"

[77:07] - [87:07]
Mary introduces Wild Keepers Rising, an indie game inspired by Vampire Survivors. She appreciates its unique deck-building mechanics and humorous elements, making it stand out in a saturated genre. Mike and Kyle express interest, anticipating engaging gameplay and cooperative experiences.

[90:04] - [105:38]
Mary reviews Drive Beyond Horizons, a car-building sim with quirky mechanics and cooperative play features. She applauds its humor and inventive gameplay elements, while Kyle provides insights into the game’s intricate design and community feedback. The discussion highlights the importance of games that offer both entertainment and thoughtful mechanics.

---

Listener Emails: Movies to Never Rewatch

[94:00] - [105:38]
Mary and Mike address listener emails, focusing on films that guests admire but wouldn’t watch again due to their intense emotional impact.

Hillary from Virginia:
"I recently watched Grave of the Fireflies... no intention of ever watching it again. It's just too gut-wrenching."
Mary sympathizes, recommending it only for a single viewing and acknowledging its profound emotional resonance.

Mike:
Shares his own experiences with heavy films like Stalker and Come and See, highlighting their powerful storytelling despite the emotional toll they take. He humorously contrasts these with lighter films, reinforcing the hosts' shared aversion to rewatching emotionally taxing movies.

Kyle:
Confirms his endurance for intense films, though he humorously downplays their impact, showing a different level of desensitization compared to Mary and Mike.

---

Closing Remarks and Future Plans

[106:16] - [108:00]
As the episode winds down, the hosts promote their other projects and upcoming shows:

• Kyle: Announces new content on Spotify and YouTube, including the Positivity Peddler Show.
• Mary: Mentions her weekly Twitch streams focused on the games discussed during the podcast.
• Mike: Teases participation in bi-weekly campaigns for Total War: Warhammer 3 and hints at future collaborations.

The trio wraps up with playful banter about their unique personalities and shared experiences, expressing gratitude for their listeners and anticipation for future episodes.

---

Notable Quotes

• Mary [00:41]: "We've not been together in, like, three episodes."
• Kyle [04:15]: "Fight a lot. But fight reasonably."
• Mary [05:00]: "If you've never fought with your partner, someone isn't being honest."
• Mike [06:35]: "I walked away and I was like, I was entertained."
• Mary [12:18]: "Let us evolve and have other types of experiences that are very good at the movies."
• Kyle [25:31]: "I want to be smarter about and give props and love to the people who are doing this stuff."
• Mary [94:51]: "Wild Keepers Rising is unique. I thought it was very fun and it is an indie game, so it's got some of that indie game charm to it."

---

Conclusion

Fire Escape Cast #106 offers a rich tapestry of discussions ranging from personal milestones and relationship advice to in-depth analyses of recent films and video games. With guest Kyle stepping in for Dan, the hosts maintain their signature blend of humor, insightful critique, and passionate advocacy for independent media. Notably, their exploration of Sinners and various indie games provides listeners with thoughtful perspectives and encourages engagement with diverse media. The episode concludes with interactive segments addressing listener emails, underscoring the community-centric ethos of the Fire Escape Cast.

Transcript

[Mary]

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[Mike]

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Fire Escape cast. I am back. Mary's back. This is Mike. That's mary. It's episode one 105 or something. Dan's not here. Fire Escape has not been together in, like, three episodes.

[Mary]

It's been crazy. Our schedules have been nutso. And also crazy dramas going on. Yeah.

[Mike]

Dan, Dan, Dan. Okay. Dan's like, hey, don't talk about me when I'm not there. Don't talk about this or that. It's like, dan, I wasn't going to.

[Mary]

I don't give a shit about you, Dan.

[Mike]

Not everybody's cruising subreddits wondering what's up with Dan Reichert. Sometimes I just live my life. I don't think about you. And maybe I didn't want to talk about you. Anyways, on the episode, Dan. Anyway, to replace Dan.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Mike]

Forever our new cast member. Because Dan's off saving the world or whatever he's doing. He says he's doing Kylie Fadams of Spawn on me. Your second time on the show.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And screw Dan.

[Mike]

I know he's coming right in.

[Mary]

You're welcome. You're so welcome here. We just love having you. Yeah. We talked to Dan earlier this week. He's in good spirits, but is definitely, definitely so busy right now. It's a really good time for us to bring in a ringer. And caught. You have a lot of experience in the games industry. You've been on this podcast before. We know you. We love you. You literally. I could throw a rock from my house and hit yours. And I do every day.

[Kyle]

Please do, please.

[Mary]

More rocks.

[Kyle]

More rocks. Yeah.

[Mike]

Both Portlanders.

[Kyle]

Just get random hitting my.

[Mary]

House, like, specifically cos rocks. I. I just love that you and I have so much in common and we're both local Portlanders and you've been playing a lot of games. You're perfect to have on. Dude. Thank you for taking the time.

[Kyle]

Always. Anytime you want me to rock, I'm always down. Anytime you have rocks, the rocks that you got, not the one that JLO has, are so much better.

[Mary]

Yeah, my rocks are real rocks.

[Kyle]

Real, real rocks. Not Kubrick Zirconia.

[Mary]

That's what the police Say they. I tried to show them the J. Lo music video and they said you've been hurling real rocks at people again to jail you.

[Kyle]

But I'm so hyped to be with y'all. So it's been a minute and it's been a while.

[Mike]

It was episode 22 was your only appearance. What episode? When was February? Valentine's Day. 2022. So like three years ago.

[Kyle]

Giving up love to come hang out with y'all. That's some good stuff.

[Mary]

Yeah, that is important considering you just had your anniversary. Congratulations.

[Kyle]

13 years in the book, Speed. Wow.

[Mike]

Congrats.

[Mary]

That's so special. I can't believe that's such a long freaking time either. That means that you've just had, like the most magical relationship for so long, you found each other super early. Or we're all old and I would just assume. Damn it, I was. It's so great that you guys found each other at babies. We are young.

[Kyle]

It is. It is wild to be be married for 13 years. Especially again when you find someone later, you know, in your mid-20s, early 30s. It is weird because then you're like, yo, we're middle aged. And I'm like, oh, like, yeah, we are.

[Mike]

Yeah. I met my wife when I was 31. 32.

[Mary]

That's a good age.

[Mike]

20, 21. Yeah, I was, I would know. I was, yeah, 30. About that.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Mike]

But I've only got. I've only got a year and three quarters married so far.

[Mary]

A car. Give Mike some advice for his marriage to be a marriage.

[Kyle]

Fight a lot.

[Mike]

Oh, nice.

[Kyle]

Fight a lot. But fight. But fight reasonably.

[Mary]

Fight with love.

[Kyle]

Fight with love. But fight. Fight in the ways that you have an understanding of the middle ground. You can find middle ground in the beginning and, and, and middle of a fight. You'll. You will last a long time.

[Mike]

Okay, that'll come.

[Kyle]

Always say the thing. Say the thing is.

[Mary]

Say the thing. I think that's realistic. You know, I. I know so many people who are like, I've been dating someone for three or four months. It' we never fight. We love each other so much. And I'm like, bitch, that's not a relationship. A relationship is when you actually have differences and you're expressing them honestly to each other.

[Kyle]

Right.

[Mary]

If you've never fought with your partner, someone isn't being honest.

[Kyle]

That's true. The other thing I would share with you is something we got in couples therapy. It's a sticky note. Is a posted note that we have on our collective desks on each of our Desks in the. And it says, you chose this. It is a phrase that we live by in the Adams household, because whenever we get down, whenever we're mad, whenever we put too much on our plates, we look at that list and we say, you chose this. And then that removes all that ability to be like, I'm gonna cry about the thing I just did. I'm not gonna cry about that thing. And you chose it.

[Mike]

Yeah. You made your bed.

[Kyle]

I chose you. You chose me. Beautiful.

[Mike]

Yeah. Oh, I see what it means. I thought you meant you. This is your fault.

[Kyle]

No, no, no, no, no. It's. It's. It's, like, your perspective way more.

[Mike]

It could be.

[Mary]

In some ways, yes.

[Mike]

I went real dark with it. Well, that's good. When. Wait, was the anniversary, like, a few days ago?

[Kyle]

Yeah, a couple days ago. Right at the end of April, so, yeah.

[Mike]

Nice.

[Mary]

Yeah, that makes me happy. I think that's a really cool win and a victory for love everywhere. And I. I just also love your, like, pragmatic view of everything. It's, um. It's just. I don't know. I think it's very. You're a realist, and that's why it's good. This week, I saw Sinners, which everybody is talking about is quite a hot topic, and I was curious if either of you have seen it.

[Kyle]

I have. I saw it the other day.

[Mike]

Did either of you like it? Was it good? It was decent.

[Kyle]

Decent, Yeah.

[Mary]

I like.

[Mike]

I love Creed. I love when. Well, I liked Black Panther to some extent. I like when Coogler and Michael B. Jordan worked together. So I was excited for this, and I still want to see it.

[Kyle]

The. The thing that pushed me over the edge to go see. I mean, I was gonna go see it anyway, but seeing Mary say this, Mooney, this movie was horny as hell. I was like, yo, I'm gonna go see this.

[Mary]

Is that what turned you over?

[Kyle]

That was the thing. I was like, Mary's like, this one is horny. I was like, yo, I'm going.

[Mary]

I tweet. So I didn't know nothing about it. I haven't seen a trailer. Nothing. I knew nothing. And. But there's all this discourse online about it of people just being like, oh, you gotta see. It's crazy. Like, check out, you know, these actors and, like, how they delivered this line. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, there's so much discourse. It must be interesting. And so I tweeted, gonna see Sinners tonight. And all the responses were like, ooh. Like, let Me know what you think. And so I saw it again, don't know anything about it, and I will not spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. So, like, don't worry about that. But I saw it in a theater full to the brim. I mean, there was maybe two seats free, which is crazy. You just don't see that type of cinematic experience in today's age. But it was filled and these people were hankering for a good experience. When somebody told a joke, the auditorium laughed. When the bad guy did something, the auditorium went, ooh. And like, at the very end, there's this kind of like, very poignant ending that would maybe result in everyone getting. Being happy. And the whole auditorium, I swear to God, applauded. This is not the end when the credits roll. This is like when a very important thing happens and everyone just went, oh. It was a visceral experience to have so many people like, screaming and laughing and, and getting into it. But the, the crazy thing that I remembered from watching it was there's a lot of sexual tension throughout the entire film. Like in almost every scene that I saw, I was like, are these people fucking or are they gonna fuck or did they fuck? And in every scene I was like, oh, they did. And it's, it's just littered throughout the performance. And so when it was done, we were all kind of like discussing what we liked and disliked. I had some things I didn't like about it. So I would say this is like a perfect film. I had some critiques of it, but I walked away and I was like, I was entertained. And that movie was so horny. And that's like literally what I tweet. I said, that movie's like horny as hell. Everybody was in that film. And I thought, I mean, I kind of liked it. I don't go to. I just finished off 40 hour work week. I didn't go to not watch people. I want to see it. And so it was really cool. How much that was a part of the experience of the film was just like, yeah, we're, we're. We're going to be doing it multiple times.

[Mike]

Yeah. Who, Who's. It's Michael B. Jordan. Haley Steinfeld.

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Mike]

She's. That's. I unfortunately know her mainly as Josh, Buffalo Bills quarterbacks girlfriend.

[Mary]

Oh, I don't know actors names very well, but I will say that's like a weakness of mine. I like never can be like, oh, this person was in these other three films. I don't, I don't fucking Know that shit. But the. The casting was well done. The acting is very good. I never really questioned whether or not someone was right for that role. Every time I was like, oh, amazing casting. There's this, like, Irish guy in it. I mean, unbelievably perfect cast for who this person is and how they behave. And. Yeah, I mean, I just. I was really thrilled with the choices that the actors made to make you feel like you could believe them and their stories. And it is a supernatural story, so it takes a bit of believing for you to kind of buy into what's happening to these people. But, man, I walked away and I was very satisfied. I think it. I just thought it was, like, the exposition was a little long. It takes, like, an hour for, like, shit to go down. It's just like. That's a long time.

[Kyle]

Yeah, it does a lot of suspension of disbelief, and you have to really buy into, like you said, the ideas of what it's trying to do. But it's a really solid vampire movie. Like, I think, you know, if you look at it in that sense and. And you, you know, take your brain out of your head for a little bit, it works. It works.

[Mary]

Yeah. There's, like, one.

[Mike]

I was in it. Who's that, like, buddy guy, like, famous, like. Like blues guitarist from that, like, started blues in the Midwest almost.

[Kyle]

That's.

[Mike]

I didn't know he was in movies.

[Mary]

That's interesting.

[Kyle]

Delroy Lindo was in that movie, so that, too, he's a classic actor in so many different ways. He's. And he was fantastic as well. I think, you know, Ryan Coogler does a thing that. When I left, the thing that we. My wife and I were talking about was, you know, do you like Ryan Coogler movies? And I think he does a really fantastic job of learning what a summer blockbuster film is and galvanizing zeitgeist and culture around something. He does that extremely, extremely well. Like, even if his movies are not necessarily amazing and great in all the ways, he does that every time people come out to go see his movies. And that's what matters for. For, you know, cinema matters for. For black art matters for a bunch of things. And he's nailing that part for sure.

[Mary]

And they got people talking. I just don't see people talking about a film like this. And one of the things that it does prompt me to talk about it. The reason I'm bringing it up on this podcast, because I see movies all the time, and I usually don't bring them up, but, like, this isn't a Hollywood traditional blockbuster film. And outside of like Marvel, you just don't see people talking about a film when it comes out like this. Like everybody's talking about it became this like cultural event where everyone, you guys remember when like Barb and Heimer happened and everyone like you got to see Barb and like it was, I don't think it's as big as that, but it was a big moment culturally for everyone to be like, you really should see this film. It's quite interesting and it's doing interesting things and everybody's talking about it. And I'm so grateful that it's not a Marvel or superhero film.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Mary]

All of the advertisements leading up to the film, you know, all the trailers and the teasers. Marvel, Marvel, Fantastic Four, some other fucking guy. I just, I'm just tired. I'm so burnt out on that type of work. A part of me tweeting and talking about it is, I'm doing my part because I, I don't want that to be the only type of movie that we culturally talk about at the cinema anymore. Like let us evolve and have other types of experiences that are very good at the movies.

[Kyle]

It was, it was really interesting to come off of two week, two weekends basically where I was in, you know, big crowded spaces with people. Right. Like went to Wrestlemania the week before and then seeing sinners the week weekend afterwards. And it was really nice to have that communal moment again. Right. Where the thing of like being in a room, hearing people react to things and seeing their real time reaction as opposed to everything that we usually get a chance to see on online. I miss that so much. Like those parts of things that I really think went away for a couple of years and now they're starting to really come back when you have those cultural zeitgeist moments which is again, like you said, super, super dope. I love when those things happen. That's great.

[Mike]

Did these crowds at the theaters, were they like, and it sounds like they were into Sinners Mary, but like were, were they generally kind of. I, I, I asked because the last few times I've gone to the movies, it's so hit or miss as to whether I'm gonna get just a shitty crowd. That's just like talking over the movie and not to the movie or singing.

[Mary]

With it, by God.

[Mike]

Yeah. But like, even, even then, so they're interacting with the movie. So many times people just talk over. I don't know if these were a good. Exactly. Crowds or not.

[Mary]

It's hard to Describe. Because I. I completely agree with you. I actually hate talkers during films. I hate people who are distracting during films. I don't like that. And I. This is also a polarizing opinion. But I often do not like musicals and I don't see musicals in theaters because I don't want to see some fan person who can't rein it in, get excited and sing or even make noise. I find that really irritating. So an individual making noise, very angry, do not like it, very upset about it. Now, if there is a moment in a film that prompts everybody, collectively, you know, the group to go, yeah, that's right. Or to applaud, I am with that. Because now you're just in a giant experience with a bunch of people. I don't know what was in the water this night. I do not know what happened.

[Kyle]

It was. Horniness was in the water.

[Mary]

Yeah, I do think that was a part of it.

[Mike]

I was gonna break out.

[Mary]

It was set in the tone for sure. But there were multiple times. And there's this one character who just happens to have a lot of comedic timing bits. It's kind of their thing. They're. They're like a drinker in the. Their character is a heavy drinker. And so they're kind of notorious for saying funny things with really good timing because they're like slurred and a little behind. And every time this character had one of their funny little lines, the whole audience just erupted in laughter at the same time. And that got me into it. I was along for the wave of these people reacting to this really good characters one liners. And again, this kind of. There is a very finale moment to this film that is very satisfying. And I just couldn't believe that everybody stood up and clapped and we're like, yeah, get him. And it was just so funny, like to watch people collectively have that response. So I liked it for this specifically. But if an individual is like, look behind you. I fucking hate that. I don't like an individual, but I do like the collective consensus of joy, fear and like they're banging. Which happened.

[Mike]

Yeah, the. I think it was Top Gun. Maverick was the first movie in a while that had done that where the crowd was like, during his time, the time trial scene, like the whole crowd was going nuts cheering for it. That's fun when the crowd's like super into it. I'm. I mean, just like I. I sometimes am the person in the group who doesn't mind telling, like a group who's talking over the movie amongst themselves loudly I will squash that quicker. I don't know. I turn around, say, shut the up. Like, I don't. This is. Kai, you've been gone from New York too long. This is.

[Kyle]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, Portland crowds are very, very.

[Mike]

No, I don't shush. I'm not shushing. I'm. I will be as direct with you as I think. No, I feel like shushing just being passive aggressive and making it worse. I want to just go for it.

[Kyle]

Well, that's why I love you. Because. Because New York. New York vibes is opposed to Portland vibes in terms of watching movies like this.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

So different.

[Mike]

Yeah, But I feel like you're also more likely in New York to get people who talk over it. Just, it's just. I don't know, so many more people and like, they don't care. So I don't know.

[Mary]

But everybody is collectively rude. I. I saw. I appreciate that. I think that in general, I'd say.

[Mike]

Like, we're still like a well mannered city, generally speaking. This was like a group of NYU students who.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah. So that's why I was like, Okay, I can tell it's a bunch of like 19 year olds chatting and taking flash photos of the intro screen to Alien Romulus and critiquing it for their.

[Kyle]

Next class and their next B movie that they're basically.

[Mike]

Yeah, so. But anyway. But yeah. Sorry, Mary, you're saying.

[Mary]

No, I was to say I saw. I know better than to do this because as I have mentioned, I'm really not a big musical person because I don't like people bothering me. But I saw. What's it called?

[Mike]

The Wicked.

[Mary]

No, actually, you guys, I'm a hater.

[Mike]

Oh, the mean girls like Wicked.

[Mary]

Everybody loves Wicked. We're gonna lose. I don't know. I don't know if there's any listeners out here that's like obsessed with Wicked.

[Mike]

I did not see it.

[Mary]

I don't give a. About that film. And I don't care that she's popular. I don't care about any of that.

[Kyle]

I love Hater Mary.

[Mary]

I don't like it. I just think her. I think. I think most musicals, like, really exhausting because they're always like, I'm angry about this thing that happened to me. And it's. You're just describing your feelings. Songs are not an excuse for you to break the fourth wall and literally tell the audience how you feel. That is lazy writing. And I, I don't Give a shit if you sang it. It's just not very good. I saw Mean Girls. It's true.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I don't care for it.

[Mike]

And Shakespeare.

[Mary]

I don't care for it. I go out of my way. And I have seen. I was raised with a lot of musicals. My dad took me to musicals, and I'm. I'm great. Sondheim does nothing to experience, but I. I just. I just find them exhausting, especially in a theater. Anyway, I went against my better judgment, and I saw Mean Girls, the musical. I loved Mean Girls. And I, like. I couldn't help myself. And I was like, maybe it'll be good. I did not care for it. And additive to this, like, experience of them constantly singing their feelings, which I hate. The couple in front of me were hardcore making out the whole film.

[Mike]

Thought you liked horny stuff in movies. I.

[Mary]

In the. In the movie.

[Mike]

No, this is right in front of you.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Like, heavy petting. And they were making lip noises, like, during the song. So I was, like, trying watch.

[Mike]

What theater was this? Oh, God. What theater was it? What's the address? What movie are they going to?

[Mary]

I could not. I could not get out. I couldn't avoid it. I was, like, trying to, like, lean around, and there was too many people, so I couldn't get out of the way. And they took a break, like, halfway through. And then three quarters the way through, they, like, went even harder. And I think they were touching each other and stuff, because they were like. There was petting and stuff.

[Mike]

At one point, the guy's like, yeah.

[Mary]

It was getting hot and heavy. And just like you were saying, I had decided whether or not I should glare at them or be like, shh. And I finally just leaned in and I said, guys, I know you guys want to fuck. I just need to finish 10 more minutes of this film. If you could just rein it in and then go home and do this, that would be so awesome. And they both kind of looked at me.

[Kyle]

Don't be a makeup.

[Mike]

What did they say?

[Mary]

It's impacted my experience. Sit in the back where all the people fuck. I understand people who want to bang in a movie theater. I was also 16.

[Mike]

Sit in the back row.

[Mary]

Go to the back.

[Kyle]

Reasonable.

[Mary]

They were, like, four rows in.

[Mike]

Yeah. Wait, what'd they say? They looked at you and then what?

[Mary]

Don't look at me like I'm the horny. Like I'm like, some kind of. Like, I. I have all the respect in the world for people who want to bang, but don't do it. In front of my eyes at the movie. The. That's unfair.

[Mike]

What did they say to you when you said that? They just looked at the movie.

[Mary]

They were shocked that I had done that. And they held hands and they looked at the movie for like the last 10 minutes. It was awkward. I mean, I didn't try to fight them or anything. I wasn't, like, really rude about it. I just said, like, guys, come on. Like, rein it in. Like, go home and bang in like 10 minutes. I just. I just gotta finish this stupid movie.

[Kyle]

Just a random condom just floats into the air.

[Mary]

I would not be surprised. Like, they were. They all probably, like, take this. Kids upset with me that I had, like, ruined their intimacy. But, like, you are in a packed, crowded theater. Like, do a very quiet over the pants hand job like everyone else. Like, there's no reason for you to be that in my face about it.

[Kyle]

It could have been their conjugal visit. Who knows?

[Mary]

I. Yeah, there's. How dare you. Lay that on me. And you go to. And you go to see Mean Girls, the musical. That's their home.

[Kyle]

Maybe that's their kink. Maybe that's their kink. Maybe that's the thing that gets them to where they need to get to.

[Mary]

Back to jail.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 straight to jail.

[Mary]

I don't want to hear it.

[Mike]

Mary tells just like, snitches on them to the parole officer outside, not realizing he's their parole officer.

[Mary]

Guys, we're all over each other. Yeah, I missed the third act. Yeah, I.

[Kyle]

You saw the third act. You just didn't scream.

[Mike]

You just didn't enjoy it.

[Mary]

Yeah, I saw a whole home run. I didn't see anything about the movie anyway.

[Kyle]

Weird, baby.

[Mary]

They are weird. And I liked. I do like a communal experience. So if people are interested in still seeing sinners, I do recommend a theater experience, because I don't know if you will have the same theatrical experience that I did, but I found that the crowd hyped me the fuck up for that event. And I. I left being like, what. What is going on today? Everybody was into, like, all of those scenes and like, all the craziness that happened, everybody was in. It was. It was wild. So, yeah, see it in the theater if you can.

[Mike]

Yeah, I got a. I saw Nosferatu in theaters. That was the last.

[Mary]

That movie's also horny.

[Mike]

Yeah, I. I know you didn't love it, Mary. I liked it a lot.

[Mary]

I. I was also a hater in the fact that I actually did, like, the color correcting. I just.

[Kyle]

Gorgeous.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I didn't care for Lily Rose Depp's performance.

[Mike]

You always hate all women.

[Mary]

Do you agree? Yeah, I do hate women. Do you. Did you like it? I'm just curious. Like, you liked her performance?

[Mike]

Yeah, we talked about this. Because then you're like, she's gonna knock over that bookshelf. And then she knocked over the bookshelf. I like other co hosts on the show. Remember when we talk about stuff and it adds to the show?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I remember when you said you don't like Lily Depp. Rose Rose Depp. Rose Lily Depp. There's two flowers in her name. I just noticed. Stick to one. Lily Rose.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

No, I remember. You don't like her. And that's fair. Her. Her, like, her convulsions could be seen as overacting, but I would argue that character needed to. I don't know. Doesn't matter.

[Mary]

Maybe.

[Mike]

But you liked it.

[Mary]

I did like. For the record, I didn't say I didn't like the film. I liked the film. I just found her exhausting.

[Mike]

That crowd was awesome. Because they were quiet. Alien Romulus was not. And I also just didn't love Alien Romulus, though. We were like ships in the night on both those movies.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Because I think you crazy.

[Mary]

I was obsessed with Romulus. Ka. Did you see either of these films? I'm just curious if we can have a tiebreaker here. Because I was obsessed with Romulus and I was like, mid on Nosferatu.

[Kyle]

I was. I have not. I've not seen Nosferatu. I was okay on Romulus.

[Mike]

Yeah. I said middle of the series, I think. Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle]

It did a couple of things again. It was like suspension of disbelief kind of things of just like, you know, you could have fixed that.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kyle]

You know you could have fixed that.

[Mary]

Like, how dare you? Ten minutes into this movie and you.

[Kyle]

Bastards are like, this thing is telling you not to do this thing. You're still going to do it. Like all humans do in movies like that.

[Mary]

So there was decisions made in Romulus that I cannot condone and I cannot justify. And I cannot be like, no, there's reasons they made that terrible joy. Like, I can't defend it. I was just thoroughly entertained from beginning to end of that film. The whole time, I was like, oh, I can't believe this shit was happening. I felt like it was like pure cinema. Especially the ending, which was just, like, psychotic for me. I just. It was such a good ride. So that's kind of why I Defend it. Even though I do think there are issues with it. Absolutely.

[Kyle]

Is there a movie that you're really excited to see that's coming out very soon?

[Mike]

Yeah. What is that? Clearly I'm not that excited if I.

[Mary]

Don'T remember the Weapons, Baby Mike, I wonder if you know what I'm talking about. But like this.

[Mike]

Yes. Oh, that's the Barbarian director. That's exactly what I was gonna talk about.

[Mary]

Yes. The imagery of this film looks insane.

[Mike]

And it's the director, Barbarian, which is fucking awesome.

[Mary]

Children walking around with their hands at the sides. Terrifying. Terrifying.

[Mike]

The. The woman who. I don't know if either of you watched the show the Americans. The woman who plays the CIA director's daughter, the teenager, she's in it. And I like her acting a lot. But I just saw that first trailer last night. I was like, this looks like. Yeah, it's pretty arresting imagery. Just in the trailer. And then I saw. It's like, from the director, Barbarian. I'm like, say no more. And I like. I was watching basketball and I saw, like, went to the other games. I didn't want to see any more of the trailer because I knew how good Barbarian was.

[Mary]

Yeah, you don't want. In terms of knowing the trailer of Weapons shows too much. In fact, I would recommend anyone who's like, what is this? What is this Weapons everyone's talking about? Don't look at the trailer.

[Kyle]

Don't.

[Mary]

Because I actually think it gives away too much. I don't like what they've done. I think us describing that children are running out of their house with their hands, like, oddly placed at their sides.

[Mike]

In an uncomfortable spongebob runs kind of. Or Patrick. I don't know.

[Kyle]

A little bit. Kind of.

[Mary]

Yeah. There's like something fucked about the way they run that is just not natural. That's all. I think I want you to know about it. I also heard a rumor, and I'm curious if this is true, that Jordan Peele wanted the rights to this film very badly, but he lost them. And I heard this is a rum. That he fired his whole team when they couldn't get the rights to it. And that's, like, indicative of how it's. How good it is. Because Jordan Peele was like, I have to fudgeing produce this film. And he didn't get it.

[Kyle]

Ooh, that's interesting. Yeah, that would be. I mean, he's. He got him. He got that movie.

[Mary]

I know. Not confirmed, though. We don't know if that's true. I just.

[Kyle]

That's true.

[Mary]

I read that on the Internet and said, ooh, that's true. That's so cool. And it did work. So you've hook lined and sinkered me if you made up that misinformation. Is that the movie you were gonna say, too, that you're excited about?

[Kyle]

Weapons and Final Destination? Of course.

[Mike]

Oh, yeah, Bloodlines. Yeah.

[Mary]

Yeah, you sicko. I love that. Did you. Were you, like, a big fan of Final Destination when? Because I think the first one came out when we were, like, teens probably. This was like a classic for our age of high school horror movies.

[Kyle]

That was. That was one of the movies that kept me into the loving of gory movies. Space.

[Mary]

Sure. So good.

[Kyle]

I'm hyped for that.

[Mike]

My favorite. I think my favorite. One of my favorite deaths in the entire franchise is when the dude is like, bench pressing and the two, like, swords, the fall and just slice. I was like, who put real swords on? Like, I think their. Their mascot was like, the Sultans or something. So it's too like. Like, what do you. Those curved, like, sabers. So then they fall into slice. And like, who put those up there? And then I think that was the same movie with the tanning booth. I think that was all three.

[Mary]

Oh, that's brutal.

[Kyle]

Oh, it might have been three.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, I remember seeing. That was the first one. Then I went back.

[Kyle]

So good.

[Mary]

They have really good ideas for their deaths. And I think something that Final Destination does really good is misdirections. Usually in that type of film, you think you know how people are gonna die, and it shifts at the last minute. There's something in the trailer. So I don't think I'm giving this away, but there's something in the trailer where there's like. Like glass gets stuck in the ice. Like, somebody breaks a glass and some. A piece of glass is in the ice. So people are scooping ice into drinks, and everyone's like, someone's gonna drink that glass. And, like, it'll kill them or whatever. But I think it's always a cheat. It always is. Like, actually, that starts a domino effect that causes someone to die. It's never what you think it's going to be. I think that's really special about that.

[Mike]

You think they're gonna drink glass.

[Mary]

Glass.

[Mike]

Then, like, the. The bar just explodes.

[Mary]

Something else happens. It always is the way all of a sudden there's like. I think it was two. I think Two is a really awesome premise, which is all the cars in traffic and there's a huge car accident.

[Kyle]

Oh, so good. It's such a classic scene, too.

[Mary]

It's a really good scene. And there's all these. This is past the statue of limitations, so I'll say this. Death in Final Destination, too. But there's all these logs on a truck in front of someone. And to this day, I have a lot of people who are like, I ain't driving behind that log. Like, I've seen Final Destination. I'm fucking passing this shit.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

But in the film, the logs obviously, like, fall off the truck and they are killing some people. I know that, like, one of the logs goes, like, right through someone's head. But in one of them, as the person skits to a stop, all these sharp sticks go through the windshield and they stop right here. And she's like, oh, my God. Oh, my God, oh, my God. And she's, like, undoing her seatbelt. And as she's, like, getting out, I think, like, the airbag goes off and.

[Mike]

Like, a car rearranges them into the.

[Mary]

Yeah. And she, like, she gets it. And so I think it's really funny how the. How that film toys with your emotions. I totally. I respect that. That's something you want to see. It's. There's so many of them now. There's a reason they called it Bloodlines and Not Final Destination 6 or whatever number we're on now because it's probably not as interesting. But that series is good.

[Kyle]

So we're good. It's so good. So, so good. I love that thing with all my whole heart.

[Mary]

I love it with my whole heart. I can't wait to see how that whole family died.

[Kyle]

You know what?

[Mike]

You know what other movie has good deaths? The Happening by M. Night Shyamalan.

[Mary]

And let me tell you, don't allow this.

[Mike]

This one of the best B movies ever made called the Happening by a visionary of.

[Mary]

Visionary. Yeah.

[Mike]

I think. I think in. In 75 years, we're gonna look back and think, he was good.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I won't be around. Somebody will. This generation's children will be like, oh, he was. It'll be like. He'll be like the Ingmar Bergman of.

[Mary]

I think it's so unfair to say that he's underappreciated in our time because he's so over appreciate. He keeps being able to make stinkers and people keep giving him money. That's how over indexed we are on.

[Kyle]

M. Night Shaman himself, Mary. He's doing.

[Mary]

Because he's so rich, because he sold.

[Mike]

His needs to make the happening. And you're sitting here besmirching his good name.

[Mary]

I could have had those jet skis.

[Mike]

I. I sold his water to make the beach.

[Mary]

I would have preferred the waterbed.

[Kyle]

The beach.

[Mary]

The beach.

[Kyle]

The beach.

[Mary]

No, thank you. I think he, like, lost his way. I mean, sometimes I just think in general, with how much everybody's now watching movies on a streaming services instead of cinema, we're accepting these. Not as satisfying, not as well written, not as well thought through. Movies that were just saying, like, this is. This is fine because you're going to passively watch this while you, like, look at your phone anyway. So ship it, because.

[Kyle]

Go ahead. Go ahead, Mike.

[Mike]

I was gonna say I'm not. Shyamalan's written the best movies ever made.

[Kyle]

But anyway, it's funny because it's now turned on its head where now folks who are really good actors are now doing kind of shitty movies. Yes, Peter. Peter Dinklage is not going to be the Toxic Avenger, which is also like, again, the spectrum of where we've gotten to is all weird now.

[Mary]

Yeah. The pendulum swingeth.

[Kyle]

Yeah, it's wild. I was like, what? He's going to be who? Okay, do it. I want to see what it's going to be like because that's a really weird transition to doing something that was pretty profound in the last movie that he was in. To doing. Yeah, to doing the Toxic Avenger, which is crazy.

[Mary]

I think that's really interesting. And I. I've seen that as well. Trying to think of, like, I think Apple had, like, a couple movies that are. They're fine. They're not great, but they're like, fine. But they have a list actors in them, and they're just. Maybe they're just decent action movies, but they're not exceptionally well done or written or anything. But the acting is good. And so I'm like, hey, at least I'm getting really good acting out of this, like, subpar experience.

[Mike]

Well, then the Marvel verse keeps pulling everybody in. Florence Pugh is in Thunderbolts now. She's better than that. I like what I'm sure is a massive paycheck. I. I saw trailers for Thunderbolts. Not like, I'm not on purpose again. I was watching, like, the Warri Game or something, and it popped up. I immediately. The trailer made me want to see it less than if I like. The trailer actively pushed me away even more because it's just David harbor, like, yelling the whole time about how they're the Thunderbolts. I. I really want nothing to do with that realm.

[Mary]

They can't Hook me. I don't care how many Florence Pughs you have. And I do love her. I think she's a great actress. And I also think she seems like a solid person. It shouldn't be that connected to the character that they play, but I think she's just, like, a rad person. I do support her work.

[Mike]

Good for her.

[Mary]

You can't make me get in there. I'm not going. I'm not going to see this shit anymore. I. I abstain because I want us to make something else collectively, as a society. We have to try other things.

[Mike]

This is the rebels of the Marvel Universe.

[Mary]

They all try this.

[Mike]

I know. It's. It's suicide.

[Mary]

I just like pretending you're the corporate person and I'm not. Keep trying to sell it to me.

[Mike]

These are. It opens with a stunt that Florence performed herself.

[Mary]

Oh, okay. Who gives a. I feel like they try and do this to me all the time with Tom Cruise, and they'll be like, he was really hanging on that plane. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Who? Impossible.

[Mike]

Movies are actually awesome. This is not a bit.

[Mary]

It is a bit. I don't think that's the selling point that you think it is.

[Mike]

Oh, like, go see them. Because he did the stunts, the movies.

[Mary]

That's what I'm saying. The movie is incredible. I'm not denying the movie is not incredible. What I'm saying is that people are always like, he did the sun himself. And I'm like, I don't care if it's him or if it's a guy that kind of looks like him that put on a wig. It's irrelevant to me.

[Kyle]

If he did a Final Destination movie, then that would be smart.

[Mary]

If he ate glass.

[Kyle]

Do the stunts.

[Mary]

Yeah. If he ate glass in the ice, I'd be like, okay, you got me, Tom Cruise. That's for school.

[Kyle]

I'll go see that. That.

[Mary]

I. I don't think that it's important that they do their own stunts or that the sun is real and not. Well, unless you can't.

[Mike]

I don't either, but we were doing a bit about Florence Pugh and Thunderbolts, and you just went off on a tangent.

[Mary]

Oh, all right. Tell me more. Do it. Do your bit again.

[Mike]

David Harbour made waves with his performance in Stranger Things. Three seasons on Netflix. I think now he's bringing his talents to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This is your chance to see him unfiltered. This isn't. Oh, this isn't a children's show.

[Mary]

Huh? This isn't Your mom. Your mom's marvel.

[Mike]

This isn't your mom's Stranger Things. This is the thunderbolts. This is.

[Mary]

They are raw. Dogging it for two and a half hours.

[Mike]

Yeah, I would see that David harbor was just having sex with Florence Pugh for two hours.

[Kyle]

I still. I really wouldn't want to see that.

[Mike]

It would be nice to not have to have AI make that for me for once.

[Kyle]

I don't want that at all.

[Mary]

I don't want that at all.

[Mike]

Okay, okay. David Beckham and Florence Pugh. But AI.

[Kyle]

No.

[Mike]

The real David Beckham.

[Kyle]

No.

[Mike]

No. Really?

[Mary]

No.

[Mike]

Okay. Florence Pugh.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Mike]

What, what, what about David Beckham?

[Kyle]

No.

[Mike]

Okay. David Hassell. David. No. David.

[Mary]

You could not be a Hollywood producer.

[Kyle]

That's instant money.

[Mike]

Name another David who doesn't talk.

[Mary]

Who we don't talk about anymore. David Hasselhoff.

[Kyle]

David Hasselhoff needs his return. He needs to come back into the limelight and get his money.

[Mike]

There's an episode of It's Always Sunny in which they're trying to write an M. Night Shyamalan esque movie. And they talk about how they love when movies bring back, like, actors that have faded into the background. And their idea is Dolph Lundgren. But I think David Hasselhoff works as well.

[Kyle]

Smell, right?

[Mike]

And then the movie becomes about how he can smell crime before it happens. And then. And then it just becomes two hours of porn. We're just actually remaking the movie from that episode. Charlie, back.

[Kyle]

Write a movie that would make a terrible hump film. I'm just saying it's terrible, terrible, terrible.

[Mary]

I think we are like those characters, though, because if we were to make a film, Mike, you would absolutely make sure that there were so many sex scenes and that they were, like, way too gratuitous. It would be like unnecessarily gratuitous. And you'd be like, we gotta have it. This is gonna be the best 14 minute sex scene you've ever seen.

[Mike]

Oh, I've got it. David Bowie and Florence Pugh.

[Kyle]

No.

[Mike]

Oh, he's dead. David Lynch. He's dead too.

[Mary]

Why is it always David?

[Kyle]

No, I told David he's on a.

[Mike]

Celebrity list in the D. David Schwimmer and Florence too.

[Kyle]

Oh, God.

[Mike]

Oh, David Hyde Pierce. That'd be good. Letterman, Batista.

[Kyle]

Dave Bautista didn't influence Pugh. Maybe that would at least be sexy because at least Dave Bautista has. Has had his, like, you know, grown man turn.

[Mike]

Oh, David. David Fincher directing a movie in which Florence Pugh and Dave Chappelle go at it. All right, sorry. You telling me you would not go see that? Talk about blockbusters and capturing the zeitgeist. God, have Ryan Coogler direct it. David Fincher plays himself writing a movie about Dave. Who did I just say? Florence Schwimmer. David Schwimmer. A Love Story. What else is new? With Spawn on me, I saw, I saw Kyle GDC like a month ago at this point. Oh God, I ran into him. That was the first time in a bit. How are things going on on your end?

[Kyle]

Things are good. Things are good. I mean it's always busy, always running around like a madman trying to get things done and trying to figure out what the next steps are going to wind up being. And we're now in year 11 of the show, which is, which is crazy to say out loud, but again, it's like the weirdest parts of doing all of this for this long is like you forget that just being public in this way is a thing that you are again like choosing to do, but also so feels like not only an obligation to yourself to continue to do like the quality parts of it, you know, if you care about the work, but also just like you get a chance to like touch people's lives in some small way. And that, that part to me is I never lose that part of understanding where all of this kind of lives. So you know, for as much as I, I get frustrated by some of the prospects of the way all the media works now and, and you were having the attention spans of dirt and all that kind of stuff, it still feels nice to be able to have a thing that you own, that you have a voice with and you can kind of share your, your thoughts, feelings and ideas with the rest of the world. And you know, people across the world can hear my, my silly voice on, on their phones and weird stuff. So it's great. I love it. It's. It keeps me going in a lot of different ways and, and I just enjoy the process of getting it done and talking about dope stuff with good people. So that's always it.

[Mike]

Do you feel the need to or do you ever like take social media breaks or do you feel like you can't because you're like doing a self run thing?

[Kyle]

Well, the hard part is I usually, my 9 to 5 job is usually a part of that space. So I'm usually either a community management work or social media management work. So I'm constantly trying to poke at things. The thing that I'm learning or the thing that has become the hardest part of doing this work. And that is I used to be able to distill, you know, if you're doing your job well as a community manager or a social media manager, you're trying to always, like, look at the zeitgeist, see what the energy is of the Internet, and then distill the pieces or the nuggets of interesting in it. And the hard part now is finding so much less of the interesting in it. And I think that part has been the most difficult part because that's also a fuel for me in smallmy is like, I'm wanting to be a part of these kind of cultural conversations and be a part of the discussion. But when you're looking at stuff and you're like, nah, that's just stupid. Like, that's dumb. That doesn't, that doesn't mean anything, or that's not news or that's not important, or that's not interesting, it winds up changing the way you kind of think about making content. But. But I'm. I'm perpetually on. I, I need to take breaks, but I don't. And that's. That's not a good thing.

[Mike]

It's tough to step away. I kind of truly have now. I'm still on.

[Mary]

I think you really have. Have. Like, I don't see you on much at all anymore.

[Mike]

I get all of my. I mean, I, I use. I think at a certain point it's almost like a privilege to be able to step away because a lot of young people up and coming have no choice but to get their name out there through social media, which I think all three of us have done. It are still sort of doing in a way, you know, like it's. I just at a certain point didn't have to. And I was like, I'm gonna take advantage of it. But. But yeah, no, for. It's also building up this thing that you run yourself. That's a whole different story. A lot of respect for it. I'm not. I don't know if I could do it, be tough. But, you know, like, to your point, the rewards are. It sounds like the rewards outweigh the, the negatives of the stuff you have to put in.

[Kyle]

I think it keeps me. It keeps me. I'm not going to say young because that feels weird. Like I just got a Social Security check, but it's like, it keeps me in a space of, of trying to understand things. Like, I still have a level of curiosity about all of this and I think the foundational love of the industry and hearing how all of these things that we get a chance to play are made every day or you know, you know, through interviews and things that I get a chance to do and you know, getting a chance to host things and all that kind of stuff. Like that's the part that really is the coolest bit is like, I get a chance to understand things in a way and not just like push them in accordance. Like I know it. You know, like, going to GDC every year is the thing I love. It's one of my favorite conferences to go to because every year I learn something new about the way games are made. And it's the pastime that I continue to take up most of my time. It's the hobby that has given me my job, most of my jobs, most of my work. It's the reason why people know me at all. So it's like to not understand why and how these things are made feels like a disservice to the people who get a chance to do it. And you know, it's taken a decade plus to kind of get into a space where people understand what I'm trying to do. But I think, think in the grand scheme that's the kind of foundation of, of all of it is like I want to be smarter about and give props and, and, and, and love to the people who are doing this stuff because they could be doing anything else on the, on the planet. Like, this is not something that you wake up every morning, you're like, I want to make games and get cussed out. That's not it. Like you get a chance to give people joy. I'm like, that's a rare thing. So yeah, I try, try to poke at that.

[Mary]

I think it's important too, because games haven't been in existence in society as long as film. It's often compared to film. But we have such deep and intricate takes and thoughts based on film. Why they've done the things that they've done. Culturally, how is it relevant? What is the director or writer trying to say? And often when we try to do that about games, everyone's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The important thing is, is it fun? And it's like, yes, of course. That's extreme.

[Mike]

We don't know anybody that does that. It's funny how important with this cast we can talk like that. I wonder what's the difference with this cast that from usual that stops us from talking? I don't know. I'm just curious what that who might be Doing that on our normal cast. Sorry, Mary, continue.

[Mary]

Now you're. I love. Now you are the true hater of this podcast. I hate musicals. Mike hates the other members of this guy.

[Mike]

I mean, Daniel, that's cod swallow. Tell me whether it's fun.

[Mary]

That's how he talks. Like a 1930s.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I think that Dan is, though his opinion is very valued in many ways, though, because he represents so many people who are like, no, but like, literally tell me if I would enjoy playing it. And that. That is a conversation to had in games. We do want to talk about that. And we are literally about to talk about like, like 10 games and whether or not we enjoyed playing them. But to not discuss why this game exists or, you know, foundationally what they were thinking about when they were making it is a disservice to games because you will have trouble evolving the medium if you're not dissecting why something might be good or fun to play. Not having those conversations can often have you in a repetitive state where everyone's just saying, well, everybody liked Overwatch, so we made Overwatch. And it's like, okay, that's. You know, everyone said Overwatch was fun, so we, we made Overwatch too. And it's just like, all right, well, that's. That's not very exciting. And that's exactly what will continue to happen is we'll just like replicate games to make original games. People start really talk about the nuances of what they liked about a game and people pull that out. And that's how we evolve as a as, as an industry. So I think it's extremely important what you do, and I think it's often overlooked or sometimes, sometimes even like chided as. Like something that's not necessary. It's most important of like, whether or not you liked it. But your ability to explain why is extremely valuable to both developers, publishers, the entire industry. So I don't really care if some people are like, I don't need to know that stuff. It's like you do. You just.

[Mike]

I still do it just behind the scenes now.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I think, I think directly to developers a thousand percent. I think a lot of folks who are doing this kind of work, you know, it's the reason why short form work doesn't. Doesn't. Short form content doesn't really work for what I do. It can. You know what I mean? Like, you can chunk out and bite size things and you can't.

[Mary]

Siskel an Ebert two thumbs up a game, right?

[Kyle]

You know, and I'm like, but that doesn't do anything for anybody else who's really thinking about this in. In a much broader way. Like the. One of the best compliments I get from books behind the scenes is that they like, you're really thoughtful in the way that you kind of analyze the way you're, you know, you're playing these games and paying attention to it. And when you. And especially from developers who are like that, you know, when we do interviews, they're like, that was a really good question. That is like the best thing you can say to someone who's doing the work that I do is like, you've just asked me a really good question. Let me think about that. And I think we're in a space where people don't think about anything. Well, yeah, really take that extra step to really like dig into the minutiae of what does it mean and how do you feel and why does that matter? And. And you know, you made the analog to movies and I think, think a question that gets asked in that space is what is the director or what is the writer's intent?

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And we remove that from games in a really weird way. You know what I mean? Like we don't. It's. It goes back to is it fun? But I'm like, no, there are reasons why these systems are in place and why you play a thing in a certain way and why the game is made in a certain, you know, aspect and how the game director and the writers and everybody else have decided to make these specific decisions when they're going to games comes out. And I'm like, why is that not important? It's absolutely important.

[Mike]

Important.

[Kyle]

We should talk about those things. So long. Long answer to a short question. But those are all the things that are in my brain when, when I put out an episode to do this kind of work.

[Mike]

It's also timely in a way because two sites that did focus on whether it's like the, you know, more social, which can be long form kind of content of Giant Bomb and Polygon got. Polygon got sold to a publisher that infamously is like farming clickbait shit with all of their sites. And you know, I guess we'll talk more about Giant Bomb and fandom and whatnot next episode. I don't want to put words in Dan's mouth, but I don't think there. I don't think there are zero parallels with what's going on there. So it's always good when like spawn on me or Min max or kind of funny. Keep that kind of conversation Going, it's heartening.

[Kyle]

Or independent media is the line, right?

[Mike]

Sure.

[Mary]

That is the line. That is literally what Grub said. And while I agree with Mike, like, we can kind of get into the nuances when we have Dan, I think that we all have games media background and we all understand that world very well. I mean, we were so ingrained at gamespot. Mikey fucking have a lot of experience at Polygon. Like, we have the right to say the best way for you to support is to support independent media. Find voices that you like and you enjoy and support them independently. That is the move right now. It's where the industry is going and it's also just the best way to keep these voices around. So find people and support them.

[Kyle]

Can I add one more thing to that really quick?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Kyle]

The thing that I keep going back to that, I think is that's in that, that statement which you beautifully shared. We are subject matter experts, and I think people forget that. And I don't. That's not a highbrow pinky up kind of kind of conversation. Right? That's not. And there is a big difference in, you know, when people ask me all the time, they're like, k, how can I do what you do? I was like, I don't do anything special. I was at my kitchen table in Brooklyn when I started this thing 10 years ago. All you have to do is bust your ass and try to figure out stuff, right? You can, you can do that work. But throughout the 10 years plus of me doing this work, I have learned things about the systems, I've learned things about the industry, I learned things about the business. And all those things, all of us on this podcast and the ones that we just talked about, all those folks have spent the time cutting their teeth on information that they understood because they were told those things from people who are experts in their fields. So, like, there is a gap between the folks who were just jumping on YouTube and throwing up nonsense and the people who have been doing that work for a very long time. So I think, you know, we have to also, you know, in a, in a, in a world where information is kind of looked down upon and misinformation is given a platform that's a part of the understanding of, of independent media as well too. It's like some people have actually spent time trying to understand and being able to distill it in a way that you can understand it so that you can continue to give that to other people. So. So I just think that's important. Like, again, it's not trying to separate people and saying that you can't do this or you're. You're an outsider to the space. Anyone can do this. But you should give props to the people who have been paying attention who have been really doing that work for a long time and know it with the back of their hand. So it makes sense.

[Mike]

I wholeheartedly agree. In that spirit, do you two want to talk about video games?

[Mary]

Yes, I do. Hell yeah.

[Mike]

Okay. Mary. I finally played blueprints. It was a while ago. I will say last four weeks I have not played many video games whatsoever at all in fact. Well, no, that's not true. I've any new video games. I. I took my. The test for the class I was taking last night. So I'm finally have more time for games for a bit. I played more Assassin's Creed. I still really like Shadows. I will say the more I play it it so the world's still impressing me. Different biomes are unfolding. I still think it's at its best when you are hunting down those. Like when it's in the revenge plot. It's like the spaghetti western set in. In. In Japan. I've got Yasuke so I'm enjoying now the dual protagonist thing. Syndicate was one of my favorite games in the series because of that as well. I also still think like it can be pretty repetitive. Like you have to kind of meet the game halfway and making each of these castle assaults fun in your own way as opposed to just like relying on the game to throw various objectives at you. I don't think it's that kind of game unfortunately. But I'm still enjoying it. It's definitely one of my favorite games in the series. I don't know top. I don't know if it's top five but it's. It's up there for me. But I played. I'm glad I know you and Dan were very hot on it. And I will say I'm still early. I would say in game I'm only like day six.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I really have not seen much. I thought it would grab me harder right away than it did. Again, full fully acknowledging six days is nothing in game. But I. I see how it's enough though foundation is laid to do some clever stuff. I. I think I like. I like how managing the currencies and like oh do I want a chapel? If that's going to open this up. But also you have to pay the coin to go in which is a evil chapel. Yeah it's a nod to like tithing which is funny. Or the cloisters is also just like. Like I enjoy. The more I play the game, I'm enjoying how. How I want to build the house. The blueprint with the rooms I'm given is starting to either coalesce nicely or clash in an interesting way with the currencies I have available. What I think my goal is and the game, I think, is already starting to show promise in how it's challenging that goal and saying you might have a plan. It's everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face. Like, everybody has a plan until you get three closets and pantries in a row. All of a sudden you have to alter your approach because you're running out of space on this side of the blueprint. I. The game, I haven't had that moment yet, like, where there's games that are clearly really intelligently made where you have that moment. The. You see through the matrix, like the Eureka. I haven't hit that moment. Like, I hit when I realized Outer Wilds is one of the best games ever made. I haven't hit that moment yet that I hit where, like the Witness, I saw what was sort of going on.

[Mary]

Overall, I'm sure the Witness is such a good comparison.

[Mike]

I just think. I don't know it. I. I know the kind of games you and Dan really get all in on. And I usually those same games hook me right away. And I think I put in 90 minutes, two hours, and I thought it would already happen, but I'm not that that's enough to push me away. I'm going to keep.

[Kyle]

That's.

[Mike]

That's.

[Mary]

I think you need a little bit more time. And I will say also, like, to your point, you know that I like, bought Balatro for my dad and it was like a high point for me that my dad instantly was like, I'm obsessed with this. This is such a good game. I can't believe it. Thank you so much for buying this for me. Well, I visited my father recently and I actually installed blueprints on his machine so that we could play it together. And he fell off. And he was like, I don't get it. I don't really like. What do you mean? I have to choose a blueprint. I was like, oh, my God. This game isn't, like, universally accepted. It was like the first time where I was like, you don't like. Isn't for everybody. And I think d almost have been overselling it as this, like, monolithic. Like, everyone has to Play this game. I don't actually think this is for everyone because it's heavy puzzler. And I do think a lot of the intricate mysteries take a long time to develop, and for you to get that Eureka moment. I do think that for the people that I have shared this with, it is one of those unique games where I had someone. I had Josh Shaw text me and be like, oh, my God, I just found a really cool puzzle. Like, I just. I just found it. And I was like, ooh, tell me more. And he was, like, explaining it to me, and I was like, oh, that sounds so interesting. And I'm like, a little, like. I'm like a little schoolgirl, like, listening to him because it was there the whole time. Fairy witness, right? Where you're like, oh, yeah, I've been in it. And so, like, I don't think you've had that moment yet. And that's okay.

[Mike]

I'm looking forward to that. I think.

[Mary]

I think you probably need, like, five, six more hours before maybe something like that happens to you. But it is worthwhile.

[Mike]

We recommend it. It hard and like I said, two hours might as well be nothing. So, like, I. I'm looking for. I. I also am looking forward to what you were saying. And sometimes you go into a room and it's got a solution to a puzzle from a room you unlock, like, hours later. That's the kind of stuff that I love. So I'm looking forward to that.

[Mary]

And that's cruel, too, if you don't get it now. Ka. I know you're also playing blueprints. Can you tell us a little bit of, like, how far you're into the game?

[Kyle]

I'm probably about the same. The same length in as Mike. I think the. The thing that I'm trying to figure out is I'm big on games that respect your time, but also games that have to kind of cook a bit to get to where it needs to. And I'm not. It's not hitting me yet. It's probably the same thing. It's like, I have to go back and go play more of it and sit with it and do that kind of stuff. But as soon as you also told me, like, you should probably journal to make this thing, I'm like, I'm out. Yeah, I'm like. I'm like, nah, that's okay. That's all right. You had me writing things down to. Nah, it's okay. Okay.

[Mike]

I. I'm. I'm. I'm a sucker for stuff like that. But my wife Texted me when I was in LA a few days ago. She wanted to try it. I was like, it's blueprints. You're building a mansion. She being an architect was like, this sounds rad. I'm going to try it. She texted me. She's like, the first screen was them recommending that I have a notebook handy. I was like, is that a bad thing? And I discovered that she does not like that when a game tells you that. So I was like, I was like, okay, fair enough. Then I will not recommend the return of the Obra Dinn to you because that would be, that would be colossal. But yeah, I'm fine with that. I don't mind doing that. I've usually got one close regardless. But like, yeah, I think I just, I don't know, I was expecting like something way up front, just knowing like the kind of specifically like, Dan, Dan games need to really hook Dan quickly. So I assumed it would hook me quickly. Which is not to say I can like to cosplay, I can let this cook for a bit. And I look forward to seeing some of the cooler stuff because I've already seen glimmers of some really clever stuff happening. I just, I need to really sit down. And again, I have not played much in the last month of anything. So I need to like, now that I have time, you know, like, I, I, I will have coffee one morning and put a few hours in. No, I'm sure I'll like more of it.

[Mary]

Yeah, I hope so. I hope, I'm hope, I hope you're both able to put in maybe five or six hours before you make your final call. I do think that's about the amount of time it took for me to find my first deep puzzle and get like really excited about the fact that I solved actually happened to me quite early in my playthrough. But there's a room with a dart board and I was kind of able to figure that out without any tutorials, without any, you know, no one. I didn't read it in a book or anything. I just was like, this is odd. And played around with it, figured out the rules and solved it. And I remember just saying out loud, like that made me feel really good. Made me feel really good that without any, any dialogue, without any instruction, I figured it out. And that game does that throughout the entire experience. You will just be walking in a hallway and you'll be like, isn't that odd? And it is odd and it's intentional and it's guiding you towards something that you will figure out on your own, because you're smart enough, and you will figure it out. And then maybe later on, you'll come across, like, a notebook or a piece, like a piece of paper from someone, and you'll be like. Like, this is how you solve the thing in the dartboard. And you'll be like, bitch, I don't need that. I already solved that with my brain. And so the game does handhold you if you need it, and it also lets you solve those things completely independently with your own noodle. And so I respect. The game respects you. It respects your intelligence, and it doesn't handhold you and tell you, this is what we want you to do, and this is how we want you to do it. Everything you find, you will decide whether or not you have what you need to solve it or if you'll come back to it later. So I think a game respects the player very much. I did roll credits on it. I can't remember if I missed last episode. I was just saying, like, I forget if I, like, said that I rolled credits, but I did roll credits on blueprints, and I'm really proud of that. I will admit that while there are many mysteries waiting for me, I am just not as eager to continue picking it up because I have other games that are appealing to me right now. And one of the things about rolling credits is that even though that doesn't necessarily mean it's the end of the game, to me, psychologically, it does. Once I saw credits, I was like, I did it. I'm so smart. I'm good. I'm really amazing. Goodbye. And I, I've picked it up once since I rolled credits because I got bigger fish to fry. I'm like, I'm playing other things now.

[Kyle]

Yeah, that's. That's so funny to hear you talk about the, the psychological, like, connection to rolling credits, because I'm the same way. I'm like, oh, I know. Like Assassin's Creed. When I wrote credits on that, I was like, all right, I'm good. But I knew I had stuff left on the board.

[Mary]

Sure, sure.

[Kyle]

Am I gonna go back to that right now? I was like, no, I have too many other things to play right now.

[Mary]

And I rolled credits. I got all the serotonin. It's all in there. I already got it. I squeezed this.

[Mike]

Yeah, I, I, I still know people who really cannot leave a game until it's completed, like, done 100. And I'm so glad I got.

[Mary]

Got Platinum. Platinum.

[Mike]

Very, very, very rarely do I need to do that. But like I. I don't know. Yeah there's so much else to play like Claire Obscura, Expedition 33.

[Mary]

Everybody's talking about this.

[Mike]

I'm so glad I'm gonna play blueprints more first. But yeah, I also want to play this game because it seems very up my alley. I think you're playing it.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I finished it. I did my review. It's already up. Super good. That game is so ridiculously good. Like I said in our. In our review that it's the strongest debut I've seen from a studio in a decade. Like it is.

[Mike]

Yeah. So to lay the. To lay out the premise. Yep. Open world turn based combat. Correct. In a. In a setting in which there is a system like to call the population a like one age group generate. Is it a generation or an age group is just I don't know if it's random. Is selected to just get wiped out.

[Kyle]

The Pinterest. Who is the. The main kind of protagonist in the story or a main baddie in the story? Every year she, she paints a number on this big obelisks in the. In the foreground of the city that you're in. And every year that number goes down and the year now is number 33. So everyone who is now that age just. Just gets ethered and gone.

[Mary]

They're just like gone. Like Thanos snapped or.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Raptured. Basically Basically like that. Like they turn into. Into pretty petals of. Of roses.

[Mary]

Wow.

[Kyle]

They fly away and yeah that's the premise is like your expedition crew is going out to stop her.

[Mike]

Oh, Expedition 33. Okay. Gotcha.

[Kyle]

Yep yep, yep yep. There have been. There have been many before you and none of them have made it through. Cool.

[Mary]

That's a really cool premise. Very gripping. Tell us a little bit about some of the things that you've enjoyed about this game because it is being very well reviewed and everybody is talking about it and you were saying it's one of the best, you know, launches for a studio. Tell us like some of your highlights.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Sandfall Interactive, they just nailed it. Like 30 folks made this game and it's. And it's crazy to see just the breadth and depth of. Of just the visual fidelity is stunning. Every. Every you know, new direction that you look on look at is is gorgeous. The combat. As a person who doesn't like turn based combat, I'm. I'm a big like don't care about JRPGs in turn based combat person. But this yeah had me hooked because of just the Intricacies of the, the characters and how you kind of build your team and you know, all of those and the story is really, is really interesting. I love what they tried to do with that space. Space, you know, with this kind of idea of loss and, and understanding. Like, you know, you have these moments where you're kind of collecting your people and moving on and going to try to do something grand and grandiose. It's, it's really cool. And the music in this game is just stupidly good. It's so good. It is so fantastic. Like it has it running in the back of my brain all the time. So yeah, it's, it was one of my favorite experiences that I've had in at least five years. Years. It is, it is a very, very strong game and it has a ton of stuff to do. Like I think the idea of, you know, talking about rolling credits, I, I played that thing and, and finished it in probably like 30 hours. And there's probably another 30 hours that you can continue to play that game and, and find new things. I'm seeing people online right now who are playing and finding bosses that I didn't even play in my, in my full playthrough. And I was like, what. Where the hell did this come from? I didn't see this. None of these things came. Came. Came past me. Me. It's really good. It's a must play kind of game for sure. Yeah.

[Mike]

You think, you think it like would speak to people who don't. I mean you said you're not usually into JRPGs, but like turn based on.

[Mary]

That is like usually an anti me thing.

[Mike]

Is the turn based combat good enough to like, like it does. Are you just kind of weathering the storm with it because it's okay or is it good enough that you're like this? I don't. This is phenomenal.

[Kyle]

It's. It's phenomenal. I mean I think the, the. If you're not a turn based combat person, I think what it does really well is. And it's hard because I think a lot of people when you hear turn based combat, you don't think of it being intricate and you don't think it being super difficult, but it gives you abilities to, you know, dodge and parry and it winds up feeling almost like a rhythm game. Which is, which is cool because it's not like the usual just like hit a button, attack, defend, heal yourself kind of thing. Heal your crew. You're finding these moments where you're learning and doing pattern recognition and playing with, you know, with headphones is really important, at least it was for me, because there are audible cues that connect to the visual things you're seeing on. On the screen. And that will give you the ability to kind of understand, oh, I need to parry here. Or I understand that pattern. After going through this fight a couple times and dying and being like, oh, how can I do this so that I can get those moves out and understand the next thing that's coming into the pattern. And the patterns change. They don't stay stacked, static. They. For some of the characters and some of the enemies, they do, but they wind up changing sometimes mid fight, or they'll do a little bit like, you know, an attack that happens at 1 will happen at like 1.2, and that changes the way you have to then think about the next attack that's coming your way. It's just really well done. This is really smartly, smartly put together. And I think for people who are having those moments where they're like, I. When it clicks, it clicks in a real way way, you're like, oh, I understand now how to do it in. In so much so that sometimes when you know you're going through a moment and you give yourself a pause to, like, go to the bathroom or whatever, it'll throw off all the momentum and vibe and not vibe, but like, the, The, The. The rhythm that you were kind of getting into, you wind up losing that groove. And that sometimes can cause you to. To. To die. So it's those moments that. That came together for me and I was like, oh, man, I just want more of this. Every time I played, I was like, like waking up excited to go play this thing every day.

[Mary]

Wow, that's such a good experience when you, like, can't escape it. Or like, I've had that where, like that feeling where you're like, I gotta pee, but, like, I'm in the zone, you know, Like a game that makes you not want to go to the bathroom is a good game.

[Kyle]

Yep.

[Mike]

Or makes you shit your pants even better.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah, that's a 10 out of 10. When you really.

[Mike]

That's my metric. Nice. Yeah, I can't wait. I. I love. I. I think I'm the especially on fire escape cast. I'm the biggest JRPG fan by far, so I was already excited for that just because I heard it was a good jrpg. But if it has, you know, like, the layers on top of it are even more exciting for me, and I think play more blueprints, keep putting time in Assassin's Creed when I. When I find it. But I think that'll be my next big like deep dive.

[Mary]

I really want to play it too. I haven't had time because I've been playing. I've been. I've been prioritizing other games, but everybody is talking about Expedition 33 and it's getting like glowing reviews. So it's really cool to see that it is worth the hype. I literally have it installed and I think I'm gonna spend this weekend on it because you're like convincing me that it's worth it.

[Kyle]

I'm dying to hear your thoughts. Both of your thoughts. When you get a chance to start playing it. It's.

[Mary]

Oh, I'm really glad you're on this though, because we wouldn't have had anyone to cover it and everybody's talking about it. So, like, I'm really glad. I think it's. Sometimes I think it's wasted on me. Like Mike said, like, I'm just not the JRPG turn based person on this pod. Mike is. So if anyone's really let us down, it's Mike, not me.

[Mike]

I. I passed up video games for wine. Studying for a month. What kind of nerd.

[Mary]

What do you have to show for it?

[Mike]

I think I'm almost positive. I pass a test, I find out in a month.

[Kyle]

I mean, you can tell me if things have a taste of rubber.

[Mary]

Yeah, I want to know.

[Mike]

I will. Do you like that or no?

[Kyle]

No.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Kyle]

Give me. Give me a bottle of that. That tastes like tires.

[Mike]

Oh, that's Riesling or Barolo sometimes.

[Kyle]

See, that's cool as hell.

[Mike]

I. I'll save this for. Mainly for when Dan's back because I want to hear him like thrash me. I'm actually sure. Official. I've. I find this funny because I think a couple of years ago on this show I said I wouldn't mind being sommelier. I actually like. It's funny to me now I officially am. I'm doing a part time.

[Mary]

Congratulations. I think that's great to save this so that Dan can.

[Mike]

I'm going to. But I. I'm never telling Dan where I work. It'll be. It's easy enough. I. I think I'm gonna come in.

[Mary]

With a monocle and like a mustache.

[Mike]

And the place, place I'm working, he'd be kicked out. It's not like that. Um, it's a pretty down earth place despite the trappings around it. It's a French focused place. But we've got a lot. Um. No it's super fun. I'm. I'm enjoying it. But yeah, I'll. That's why I have not been playing many games the last this whole year.

[Mary]

Really?

[Mike]

Cuz I've been studying for the test. The test and the summary thing are sort of related. Cause they knew I was studying for that. But I'll find out in like a month what my score on the test was. But I'm like, unless I sincerely fucked up like the entry on the test, then I definitely passed.

[Kyle]

Has it made you a snob? When you see other people drink wine, you're like, oh God, yes. You don't smell it. You don't swish and spit.

[Mike]

I pride myself. I would get. I would not. I would be fired from this job immediately if I was a snob. The whole point is like, if you, if it makes you enjoy it more, then do your thing. I can recommend what I think will amplify it the most for you, which is not putting ice in a white wine or a sparkling wine. But if it makes you enjoy it more, then I'm not going to stop you. Especially for if you're paying X for a bottle, it's your bottle. I'm. It's no longer mine. I'm just going to help you pour it and I'll recommend it.

[Kyle]

That's great.

[Mike]

But. But yeah, if you ever have any questions, let me know. I'll do my best to answer.

[Kyle]

I'm going to bug you actually, because I have many, many questions. Not now, but I'll bug you. I'll bug you at some point.

[Mike]

Let's do it now. I've got all the time in the world. Let's go. Mary's going to lie. I'm joking.

[Mary]

Do not have all the time in the world. The game section, not the wine section.

[Mike]

I'm just explaining why I barely played in the game. Stop trying to host. This is my Mary. What is south of Midnight? She does this when I'm like on tangents and I'm like, mary, talk about south at midnight right now. Because I said so.

[Mary]

Okay, now that's a host. I'm playing south of Midnight.

[Mike]

Aren't I inviting. This is the new skills I'm getting from this.

[Mary]

I'm actually very stressed, but I respect it. I like being told what to do sometimes. This is good for me. Joy now. Okay. South of Midnight is kind of like Sinners, the game.

[Mike]

Oh, wait, wait, wait. You talked about this on last or at the two episodes ago? You said you were excited for it.

[Mary]

Yeah, I am. I was Excited for it. I have some pros and some cons to it. I'm gonna give my honest review of it. I do think it's really interesting and I think it's a fantastical setting. Much like Sinners. It is supernatural in the Deep south and because of that, it gives you an awesome atmosphere to play in. The music is so good. It really is like southern music with vocals that there's like lyrics that match kind of what's happening in the environment that makes you feel like you can partake in what's happening. The music is just. I think music is actually the best part. I think it's just really beautiful to listen to. I heard I found myself humming the songs while I was making dinner after playing for a couple hours one night. So it does stick with you. I also think the storytelling is quite good. Again, so supernatural setting. You're a girl in the Deep south and you've lost your mother, and so you're looking for her. But then all of a sudden, as you're looking for her, it kind of feels like Alice in Wonderland. Things start changing around you. There's big. Like, I saw a peach, like the size of a. A house. And I was like, okay, something weird is going on. You start meeting larger than life characters. You meet this like giant catfish. And one of the very first things you're tasked with doing is. Is. Is letting them go and getting them out of their. They're like stuck in a. In a tree. But what I really appreciated about this section of the game is how storytelling is interwoven throughout each part of releasing this catfish. And so you're learning really tough things that have happened that have caused rifts in the area. I'm not going to remember all the terminology. They have a lot of weird terminology that I don't care about. I don't think it's super important that I've had memorized. But essentially, if trauma has occurred in the history of this space, it creates rifts that you have to untangle. And you are a weaver or something that can untangle, entangle these rifts. You are unique in the space to be able to do that. And I have a bottle in my. In my back pocket for some reason. And when I see a trauma, I either have to fight the trauma physically, which is like a combat situation, which I'll get to in a second, or I take out my blue bottle and I kind of suck up this trauma. And in doing that, I have to watch the traumatic thing that occurred. And some of it is really sad.

[Mike]

It is really sad. Is the game about trauma?

[Mary]

I think so in many ways. And. Oh, sorry, no, I think that's like a very funn and I think it's fair. And probably one of the criticisms that some people will have, which is that this game is a bit heavy and for. For someone like me who like plays games to, to, to relax and have fun, I was like, ooh, this is a really sad story. And this is like hard for me to process and listen to, but I do think it's important and I think it's worth playing. And I think there are a lot of people out there that love intricate or valuable characters and storytelling and you often can't have that without sadness. And so in that case, I think this, this game achieves something quite great, which it makes. It makes you care about the people that you're. You're playing and the stories that you come across and the people that you're interacting with. But it can be heavy. And I don't think that all people will enjoy a heavy and sometimes sad story. But I absolutely enjoyed the releasing of the catfish story. And when I finished that area of the game and I had released this catfish, I streamed this game and I remember saying to my chat, like, what an awesome experience that was. I hope the whole game is like this. I've. I've loved climbing this tree and figuring this out. And the music was like 100% right along there with me and carried me along to finishing this section of the game. Unfortunately, that isn't the whole part of the game. There's also combat in this game and I do think, I have to be very honest with you. I just think that is the weakest part of this game is so weak that I actually changed. Changed the difficulty settings for combat to easy so that I can quickly get through them because it is not good. The idea is that you have, I want to say, four specialty moves. There are these, like, I don't know, dark presences. They float, they have sharp talons. Who gives a. And they try and fight you. You have to combat them back. Combat is X or XX or XXX or xxxxx.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Mary]

It really sucks. Okay, yes, there are specialty moves, so I will give them that. Right? Like there, there's like a specialty move where you can grab one of these ethereal beings and bring them closer to you. There's one that makes them like immobile for two seconds or something like that. There's another one that shoots out a wave of air and kind of gets them away from you. So you do have specialty moves that helps mix up combat. It's just not enough for me. Me. And I found it, like, exhausting. And these guys have way too much health for how uninteresting they are. And there's, like, three different enemy types in this game. So, like, at some point I was like, I don't want to spend five minutes beating these bad guys. And so I changed my difficulty setting to easy. I just destroy them like the golden God that I am. And I get back to the good, good, which is actually playing this game. Cot, did you play this game? I feel like you're either agreeing with me or, oh, yeah, I finished it.

[Kyle]

It's fantastic. Everything that you're saying, keep going.

[Mary]

Okay, I'm. I was really curious what you think. I. I really liked this game. My general thought is, like, super glad that I've played it. I don't know how far I am, but I've heard this game is around. 10 hours is not a long experience. And I've played it for two streams now, and I stream for about three, three and a half hours. So I have to be very close to the end. I think at this point, I am enjoying it. My. My intention is to finish this game. I think that the story is well done. Oh, I think the acting is very good. So funny. I keep, like, comparing it to sinners, but, like, just like sinners, the acting in this game is very good. It is the. Whoever they picked to play the lead actress, like, she nailed it. She has the mannerisms on point. She. She makes me laugh out loud with her reactions of whether or not she wants to do something. Sometimes, like, she'll go in a house and it's gross, and she'll be like, I don't want to do all this. They. That they had unique talking for her for, like, lots of situations that she's in. It makes it feel alive. She feels very human. She feels very real to me. And it also has, like, a what remains of Edith Finch thing going on, in which to say, you walk through houses and you can see they've put a lot of energy into, like, picture frames and items that belong to the people that lived there. And you get to experience their lives through the items that they left behind. I appreciate that. I know that they made a design choice to put a lot of humanity into the spaces. And I love looking through old people's houses. So it was really that I like specifically old people. I do. I go. I go estate sailing. I. I love it. I love it. It's like, one of the things I enjoy doing. But much like what remains of Edith Finch finding an item and being like, oh, this person was really into tennis. This. And they actually were like a champion and here's their trophy. And here's, like, that is very fun and enjoyable for me and it helps balance the other aspects of this game, which is just like heavy, heavy storytelling. Whimsical. Oh, and there's also. There's a. This game's doing a lot, to be honest with you, but there's also just jumping and running from, like, bad guys in these, like, long sequences of like, you know, you're being. It's a chase sequence akin to like, maybe like Ori maybe, and you're just trying to get away from it and running fast and learning all of your different moves to get away from them. I've liked all of that stuff. The only thing I really didn't like was the combat. Ka, what were your thoughts?

[Kyle]

Yeah, you. You nailed all the things that I would share. I think the combat is the weakest part. It's also funny to hear that you don't like musicals because I kind of refer. I kind of think about this game as a musical.

[Mary]

Yeah, I think that's true. Maybe this broke me.

[Kyle]

Yeah, it's. It's so funny because I was like. Oh, yeah, like, when I, when I described it to the folks in the review was like, this feels like a musical in a weird way. But I loved. I love the. The connection to what remains of Edith Finch because that was the. The game. I've been trying to find an analog to what I think this game is. And I think those storytelling parts of, like, this is a Grimm's Tale in a lot of different ways. It's not. It's not a very happy go, lucky thing. But I think they nailed all those parts. I think, you know, like you said, the actresses and actors are really fantastic, especially towards the back half of the game, for sure. And. And I'm excited to see what you think about the end because I think that part is going to be really fun to hear how. How you kind of came to it. It. So, yeah, you nailed it. Definitely one of the best games of this year for me.

[Mary]

I think it's very good. I. I hope more people pick it up and play it. I think it's very powerful. And I also will just say, because I saw it online and I never. I. We keep comparing it, but I mean, I just. I have to say, if you saw Sinners and you're like, I like Sinners you'd probably like south of Midnight, and if you played south of Midnight, you'd probably like Sinners because it's. It's shocking how there are similar vibes in each piece and they nail the environment. Like, you feel like you're there, there, and it's re. It's a really fun space to be in. So. Yeah, I love it.

[Kyle]

Yeah, really good.

[Mike]

Kai, I saw that you have played Marathon. Did you go to that event a couple weeks ago?

[Kyle]

No. Bunch of y'all supposed to send me? No, I'm just playing. Let me play it.

[Mary]

Put him on blast.

[Kyle]

Put me on. I want to do fun stuff. Marathon is really good. I like it a lot.

[Mike]

So you have to play it. It just was like a remote thing. Thing.

[Kyle]

The. The Alpha.

[Mike]

Oh, gotcha. Okay, that makes sense.

[Kyle]

Gotcha. I'm probably 30 hours in on that Alpha already, and with. With what? I think a couple more days left of it.

[Mike]

Gotcha.

[Kyle]

I know a lot of people have been talking about the, you know, what's the Extraction shooter space look like? And, you know, is Bungie actually doing something different here? And I think, you know, the biggest conversation has been around the aesthetic and, you know, do you have anything really to do do? And I think from my time with it, the biggest hurdle for them is kind of explaining the Extraction Shooter loop to people. I think people have experience with it with games like Tarkov, but a lot of those folks are, you know, if you're not a console person, you know, you've been playing that game because it's only on PC. And this is the first game that I've seen so far that has really done that work extremely well. The moment to moment fights are good. Bungie's ability to kind of make an assessment aesthetic really pop off the screen is there. And I think they have a. They have some tweaking to do and they have some work to do to explain what this world is going to be. Because I feel like a lot of Destiny fans that the world building for them is what keeps them there. And the gunplay is really just, you know, what Bungie has been known for. But, man, I'm rooting for them. You know, as a person who worked on a game that didn't make it, I'm like, please make it. I really want this game to do well. Well, because I think they have something special. And I've had some fun moments in this game where you just get out right at the last moment and you've gotten some decent loot and you're like, I'm about to die, but I also got out. And that's the kind of gist for it. It's like, it feels really good so far. I'm hoping people dig it.

[Mike]

Not, not that I, I don't mean to like, excuse it if it does, I haven't played it if it does indeed have like a light loop right now. But, like, I don't know if people like Destiny when it first launched was similar. People like, this is kind of bare bones. I also don't fully get what they're going for here. Yeah, to your point, it's like similarly, Destiny had to sort of teach people what a shooter MMO could be. I'm trying to think if there are any ones before that in 2013 or.

[Kyle]

Whenever it would have been, maybe, like, what's the one that Reb Ford works on?

[Mike]

Warframe was a bit different in the sense that like, that was still. Yeah, I guess so, like, warframe started in 2012. I've put a thousand, more than a thousand hours into that game. It's just like, it's still. That was like third person, like just weird enough on its own that I don't know that. Yeah, like, a lot of people, Well, a lot of people had played it, but now a ton of people play it. But yeah, coming off Halo, they had to say like, hey, here's what an MMO shooter is. I feel like they're in a similar situation here where it's like, hey, if you haven't played, you know, Escape From Tarkov or even like the Hunt Showdown to a certain extent, games like that, then you might not fully get what we're going for here. But I would also say in today's market, it's way harder to launch with a bare bones game because launch is so important. Now you see Condor, you see so many. What was that one that Jaeger made that was more about the cheaters, took it over. But oh yeah, launch is just important. Even in like early Access Alpha Beta, it, you really can't screw up launch.

[Kyle]

You're.

[Mike]

Unless you're like no man's sky. And that's such a unicorn that came back. You really don't have the luxury of kind of fixing things the way that they could with Destiny. But yeah, I'm rooting for them as well. I, I, I have not played it yet. I really want to because I think, I think the idea is, is cool of like launching down to a planet from what I understand in the premise. And then the extraction is to come back up. That just that loop alone sounds.

[Mary]

Sounds really fun. Yeah. This is a game I'm rooting for too.

[Mike]

Like hell Divers was like very, very extraction light as well.

[Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

But yeah, they're. They're doing some. Something different with marathon. So. Yeah, like I said, rooting for them. Mary, what else did you play that you are excited about?

[Mary]

I'm gonna really briefly touch on one and I'm gonna spend more time talking about the other one. Real quick. I played Wild Keepers Rising, which is another one of those Vampire survivor style games, but I actually think it's doing something different. Interesting. Yeah. Auto battle.

[Mike]

Yeah, there's. I forget what it's called. Yeah.

[Mary]

The reason I really like it is because you're building a deck. So what's cool about it is, is you're a person who is collecting animals and the animals are the ones that are auto fighting on your behalf. So as you're walking through the world, you'll be like, oh, and the names of these creatures are so, like, they're so weird. Like, they'll call them like, like just something so strange. Like, like Toothy Magoo. And he'll. He'll be like this monster with huge chompers. You'll be like, what the is this character? They look disgusting. They all look. They've given whoever was the art designer of this is a psycho. They made them look so ugly. But the art style is nice. I'm just saying these, these creatures are gross with intention and. And they're the ones that fight on your behalf. So you choose Toothy McGee because he bites and he has a. A faster attack. And so he's really good for like fast attack sequences. And each animal has their own alt. I think that is really fun that you essentially are like, oh, I need an aoe. So I will choose this creature because it shoots bullets all around in a circular direction. And I really want this one that looks like a Kirby because it ships shits life. And that is a true creature that you can get in this game. And it shits little hearts. And so I'm like, if I have a build that's like really weak and I'm constantly gonna die, I always get this Kirby so that I can constantly be eating its and like stay alive. I laughed a lot playing this game. I think it has like a good sense of humor to it. I think it's a funny game. But I also really enjoyed building a deck of animals that could like do aop. We shoot fire. One of them is a spider and it has lots of babies. You're building like a deck of like, maybe they're all weak, but you have like 20 creatures on the board all destroying stuff and it's all auto combat. So it's really fun and loose and like, if you liked vampire survivors, I actually really recommend Wild Keepers Rising. We've seen so many dupes of vampire riving and there's just a little bit too many for you to probably parse and process process. Wild Keepers Rising is unique. I thought it was very fun and it is an indie game, so it's got some of that indie game charm to it. Like I had like a couple glitches through it. But I mean I, I really thought this was a fun take on this genre and I, I laughed out loud multiple times playing this game. So I encourage you to give it a whirl.

[Kyle]

Life. I want that on the back of the life.

[Mike]

Eat bricks.

[Mary]

And I was following it.

[Mike]

Mary, you have four minutes to tell me what you think of Drive Beyond Horizons.

[Mary]

Wow. I like this. Okay. Drive Beyond Horizons is a car building game where you start with a car that is not complete and you have to find the major components of a car and then drive it. And your goal is to drive 50km and then something happens. You're in the desert. So I was like, crap. Okay. I put in my engine, I put in my radiator, I put in my car battery, I turned the engine and yay, it worked. And so I drove. Unfortunately, I didn't put enough water in the radiator, so my car broke down. Every time you drive, you go past maybe a gas station and I would look for things like water or petrol. There's a lot of funny mechanics in this game that really do work. For example, one time I was out of water and so I peed in the radiator and it was 40% water and 60% piss. And my car ran. It ran great. And so you can like, you can like use your own pee as radiator water. I drank petrol and got really sick. Like there's a lot of fun mechanics with it. It's also co op so you can find other people. And I think this is actually the clutch of this game is like the three of us could go and play in this world. We all have hunger and water meters. You have to eat and drink and you need to pee to stay alive. But we also all need to get in this caravan and drive, bab, drive. And so like your car breaks down, you pop tires, you gotta find this. There are zombies in this world. There's a Lot of stuff that I don't want to tell you about because I think it's fun to, to explore and find out. But like one of the funniest things that happened to me was like I was finally in a good spot where like my radiator was working and my car was in good condition and I was driving really fast and I saw a ramp on the edge of the street and I was just like, I gotta do. I did this ramp and I busted the out of my car because I like didn't land it properly and I lost two tires and like my fucking radiator flew out of the car. And I was like, it's worth it.

[Mike]

Like, sounds like more bizarre. Pacific Drive.

[Mary]

Yes. I mean, a lot of people were comparing it to Pacific Drive and I do think that there are value adds to Pacific Pacific Drive, which I think was also very supernatural and allowed you to like role play as this person.

[Mike]

Simon Stalin hog kind of art.

[Mary]

This game is. This game is for dum dums. Like this game is like meant for you to be stupid. It's playful, it's funny. It's like the devs were on something when they did this. There are jokes everywhere. There's phone booths. Sometimes they ring and when you answer them something funny will happen. They have slot machines in this game and if you win, something funny happens. They made this game fun and it's very fun to play with like one or two other people. So if you're looking for like an evening to play with your, with your buds and you just want to like dick around in a world, play. Drive Beyond Horizons is a funny game. I actually do think that this is going to be like up and coming for streamers and stuff like that. Just like random shit happens in this game. I played this game for like three hours by myself. I had a fun time. I played this game for four hours with other people, had a blast. Like that's where the magic is in this game. But I think it's fun either way. But yeah, I don't want to give away all the surprises because like, weird, random stuff happening is what's funny about this game. But you know, you gotta like go to gas stations, find a can of beans, eat it, you know, find it, soda, drink it, you know, try and get on the roof, find all this secrets. You can build a monster car. You can find V8 engines, you can find vans, you can paint them.

[Mike]

That's four minutes sick.

[Mary]

I did it.

[Kyle]

You did it. That was good.

[Mike]

A good job.

[Mary]

Thank you. I rest my case.

[Mike]

It does sound fun. I. I want to check that out. I added the long list of games I have not played yet this year.

[Mary]

All right. I think, yeah, that'd be a game for us to play.

[Mike]

Do you guys want to do some emails or. An email?

[Mary]

Yeah, unless Kyle wants to run any of these. What's your favorite rematch or Tower Born favorite?

[Mike]

I don't see Arc Raiders. Why do I? Oh yeah.

[Kyle]

Oh, three out of the three. Tower Born is the. Is the favorite.

[Mary]

Tell me why.

[Kyle]

Very, very good. From stoic people who made Banner Banner Saga. But it's a four player co op Looter.

[Mike]

Oh, I love Banner Saga. The trilogy was awesome. I replayed Banner Saga last year.

[Kyle]

Yep, very good. Very very good.

[Mary]

Oh, maybe we'll assign this to. To Mike.

[Mike]

I'll play.

[Kyle]

We should all play it.

[Mike]

Mary, send me that. It's not in the run of show. That's why I didn't see it.

[Mary]

It's literally in the run of show. You are out of your mind. Mind.

[Mike]

Oh, I didn't. There's two on the second page. Sorry.

[Mary]

Wow, the host is really not good at looking at second page.

[Mike]

I was doing emails. Okay. Wanna do emails?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Mike]

Okay. As usual, you can Write into firescapecast gmail.com with any questions, comments, concerns. We had a pretty full inbox, but Dan did the thing when Mary and I aren't there to reign him in. He picked like eight emails, so please send in more. He keeps doing that. For whatever reason, he doesn't fully grasp how we tend to run things even though we're on episode 106 now. He'll figure it out at some point. But I have a question here from Hillary in Virginia. Mary, do you want to read this one?

[Mary]

Sure. Hey, Fire Escape Escape Ease. What are your favorite movies that you will never watch again? I recently watched Grave of the Fireflies. Woofs. I saw in the email that was like my reaction to saying that you watched that movie Woof. And I sobbed at the end. It's easily one of the best movies I've ever seen and I can't stop thinking about it. However, I have no intention of ever watching it again. It's just too gut wrenching. Much love, Hillary. Hillary, that is so fair. I would never watch that movie again. And I do recommend people watch it once, but God, I would never watch it. But I watch Ghibli movies. Like watch the same ones like once a year.

[Mike]

Yeah, some of them are less. Not as heavy as the others for sure. Like some of my favorite movies are by Andrei Tarkovsky. I always mix them up with Tchaikovsky. Tarkovsky. He did Stalker, the original Stalker. He did the original Solaris. He did Mirror. Most of his movies, which I love. I. I saw Stalker for the third time. That's the one I can rewatch. His other ones, I cannot ever see rewatching. They're so heavy. They. Some of them are made to like, demand your attention for very long periods of time on one shot. I like when directors do that. His are like. Some of them are specifically designed to test your, like, endurance. And if this sounds extremely high brow and kind of up its own ass, it very much is. But like, some of the most gorgeous movies I've ever seen. I cannot imagine ever seeing Mirror again. I. I think my biggest movie in this vein is Come and See. See. Either of you seen that? I will not. It's like, it. I don't know that I could ever bring myself to watch that again, but it is made to be like a truly and everybody. What's the saying? Francois Truffaut, I think, was saying, like, there's no such thing as an anti war movie. Every movie about war, whether it's trying to or not, will end up glorifying war somehow. Come and See is like one of the movies that I would say it's like, generally accepted to be actually successful in the anti war sense, but yeah, it's like a Soviet movie. Who directed it? Fuck. Elim. Let me look this up really quick because I want to give credit, but just truly horrifying movie about like a child basically seeing terrible shit during World War II and Germans occupied.

[Mary]

Odd. No, thank you.

[Mike]

Belarus. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, it's not. I think it was Belarus. It's really not great. But like, I'd say not objectively, but like, I still would call it an incredible movie. Elim Klimov directed it. Just. I'm not even recommending it. I don't. I. I think if you have the fortitude to watch this, I think it's like wonderfully crafted movie, but it is an anti war movie in every sense. So, like, I. I hesitate to recommend it. It makes Schindler's List seem like the Hangover. Like, it's.

[Kyle]

Wow.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Damn.

[Mike]

It's. It's rough. I'm never gonna watch it again, but I'm glad. I'm glad in a. I'm. In a sense, I'm glad I watched it.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I didn't mean no disrespect to Shimmers. No, no, no.

[Kyle]

That's an incredible good comparison. That's a good visual for, like, what that thing is.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

The experience you're gonna have.

[Mike]

Yeah. Sorry. Anyway, any others?

[Mary]

I mean, if you were to ever, like, very briefly describe a film that is brutal, I would. I mean, unfortunately, you've made me not ever want to watch it.

[Mike]

Oh, yeah. I don't blame you. I. I never want to watch it again. But it's. It's undeniably powerful.

[Mary]

Often important films are movies that you just can't bring yourself to watch again. And that is. That. That is something like. I have respect for that. I just. I just can't. My heart. My baby heart can't take it. Kyle, like, what's.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

What. What is yours?

[Kyle]

I'm a weirdo. I don't have any. Like, I can't think of any movies that I wouldn't.

[Mary]

Weirdo.

[Kyle]

I'm awake. And I also watch really terrible things. Like, I watch stuff that you're not supposed to watch, like the Poughkeepsie tapes or Pie.

[Mike]

Oh.

[Mary]

Oh, I see. You've, like, your base sensitized. Yeah. Is absolute terror and horror. So nothing breaks you anymore.

[Kyle]

Nothing breaks me. Nothing.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah. On, like, a real nice Christmas morning, you're like, let's watch Requiem for a Dream, honey. Yeah.

[Kyle]

That's the movie that everyone's like, one.

[Mike]

I have.

[Kyle]

I've actually never seen it. I need to go watch it. What? No, I've never seen it.

[Mary]

I wonder if it would break you.

[Kyle]

None of. None of these will break. I've watched. I've watched stuff that you should not watch.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

I mean, so, like, my. My floor is very, very just like, what. What. What are you going to show me that I haven't seen before? That is. That is going to do some really wild. Like, I'll go watch the. The. The Human Centipede for fun. Like, freak.

[Mary]

I can't believe he sent. I'm weird.

[Kyle]

I'm weird.

[Mary]

Could you watch that again? Have you seen Human Sent Centipede?

[Kyle]

I've seen everyone. I've seen every. Every part of the series. I love horror. I love gore movies.

[Mary]

I love gore, too. But, like, Human Centipede is disgusting.

[Kyle]

It's gross. It's terrible, but it's. It's so fantastic.

[Mary]

What's that other one that's like, I would. I said. When I left it, I was like, I'll never watch that movie again. I think it's called, like, the Interview or something like that.

[Kyle]

Oh, something like that. Like, I've seen Pie. Pie is a really interesting one. Pie P. Like, the number Pie.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah.

[Kyle]

That's a really weird, weird one. Poughkeepsie Tapes is. Yeah. Like, there's a ton of just, like, terrible, awful, really bad things for your brain that I watch all the time.

[Mary]

I like horror movies, and I even, like, like, gross.

[Mike]

Sorry. I'm just imagining someone taking their. Like back in 2012, taking their kid to see Life of PI, but on accident, they see Pie. They were in the same era. It would just be funny. Okay. Pie was 2000.

[Mary]

Oh.

[Mike]

PI was way before 1990.

[Kyle]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mary]

That's when they could make the real sicko because, like, nobody was really observing it, and they were just. They were just making nasty, dirty ass.

[Kyle]

I don't even had red band trailers back then. I don't even think they had those. Yeah. That kind of stuff.

[Mary]

So.

[Kyle]

Yeah. It isn't a movie that I wouldn't re.

[Mary]

Watch if I. I find that fascinating, and I'd love to have you on again and really test this theory. Like, it's just wild to me that there's no movie where you're like, I ain't watching that again. That is. I've. I've left so many gory horror because I. I am an avid horror person. Again, the one thing that gets to me is usually torture. I just don't like watching someone be tortured for, like, too long. It's just draining on me, like, emotionally watching, like, someone get, like, cut up and stuff. I'm like, get him. Like, I. I can let a lot of stuff go, but there's certain things where I'm just like, oh, God, it's so draining. I don't want to watch it.

[Kyle]

I. I root for the. I root for the people who are doing the bad things.

[Mary]

Absolute sexual sicko.

[Kyle]

I'm a sicko. I'm a sicko.

[Mary]

I will.

[Mike]

Their way of channeling that. Those.

[Kyle]

She's a. She's a social worker. Social worker. She walked in on me playing Mortal Kombat, and that's how we had our first conversation about all of those things.

[Mike]

Were you doing a fatality?

[Kyle]

Yeah. She was like, is this a thing that you like?

[Mike]

And I was like, everything in my training is telling me that this is bad. Yeah, No, I think. I think it's all useful for confronting fear, certain impulses in a healthy way.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I can't believe you're so desensitized. This is, like, the best fun fact is that you would, like.

[Mike]

I never would have thought you were.

[Mary]

Like, watch, like, the movie. Super.

[Kyle]

Well, like, I'm super chill. And not like, you know, like, I know.

[Mary]

It's always the ones you don't expect. Everyone will always say, he's so nice. I've always. I've always liked him. It's like watching people get their bones broken multiple times. And you're like, yeah, the.

[Mike]

The Kipsy tapes was. I remember watching part of that.

[Kyle]

Yeah, that's a. That's a. Like when you're like, oh, these are the movie. Like when they had the. These are the movies. You should watch it in the dark and don't let anybody else see you.

[Mary]

Say, yeah, yeah, stuff.

[Kyle]

I'm like, bring it to me. Give it to me.

[Mary]

All right, I'll keep that in mind. For your next present, we'll do a bonus.

[Mike]

Let's do a bonus series where we watch the most movies imaginable with Ka and people can do a. Watch along.

[Mary]

Yeah, he's just smiling the whole time.

[Mike]

No, it's just me. It's just me and Ka the whole time. Like, not even saying anything, just staring at the screen.

[Kyle]

Just be like, I'm critiquing him. Like, the brain. The bones don't break that way. You have to hit this part.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And then the gushing wasn't really good enough. Here.

[Mike]

This is how I did it. Yeah.

[Mary]

How I did it.

[Kyle]

Look at my basement.

[Mike]

I swear to God, I could be a good serial killer.

[Mary]

We could be serial killers.

[Kyle]

Probably.

[Mike]

We'll team up. Has that happened before? No. I think serial killers are too narcissistic to, like, team up with another one.

[Kyle]

I mean. Well, look at it this way. We can be killers. You're already a psalm. I call the show Psalm. It's easy.

[Mike]

Oh, perfect.

[Kyle]

Wow. Easy.

[Mike]

And then we start. We start on each coast and work our way to the Midwest and meet.

[Mary]

Up in Chicago and have a psychopath in.

[Mike]

We have a contest to see who.

[Mary]

Can enough for me. I don't really want two murderers in the podcast.

[Kyle]

And then you piss in your engine and drive your car.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Now that's just harmless comedy. Yeah, that's where I shine.

[Mike]

Serial killing. Serial killing, I maintain, is a victimless crime. And that's how I justify it.

[Kyle]

Jigsaw never killed anyone.

[Mike]

Yeah, true.

[Mary]

Yeah, you did this crazy hot take.

[Kyle]

It's true. He never killed anyone.

[Mary]

Put them in a contraption that bent their mouth open.

[Kyle]

No.

[Mike]

They gave it to their vices or they weren't able to escape their prison. They created.

[Kyle]

Reason I love Jigsaw as my favorite horror guy is because he doesn't kill anyone. They all kill themselves.

[Mike]

Another movie where people kill themselves. The Head Happening by M. Night Shyamalan.

[Mary]

Stop it.

[Mike]

All right, sorry.

[Kyle]

Movie that makes you want to kill yourself is anything but M. Night Shyamalan.

[Mike]

Very true. His movie is the Happening. His movies are happening.

[Mary]

Watch all of M. Night Shyamalan's films again. K. We will.

[Mike]

Oh, bonus.

[Mary]

We got him.

[Mike]

Bonus series.

[Mary]

He won't do it.

[Kyle]

You know what? You might have found it. You might have found it.

[Mary]

They're so cool. Pa won't watch the Happening again then.

[Kyle]

Damn.

[Mary]

In your face, Mike.

[Kyle]

The beach.

[Mike]

No. Yeah.

[Mary]

Rather watch someone get tortured. Lady in the Water melted a th.

[Kyle]

Percent a to then watch another M. Night movie.

[Mike]

Oh, let's do a bonus video where we watch lady in the Water.

[Kyle]

You can kiss my ass.

[Mike]

That's a. It's one of the best movies.

[Mary]

Oh my God. I don't like so bad.

[Mike]

All right, well, thank you, Hillary, for the email. That's our email. Emails for the week. Sorry, I have a. We're. We're recording. I have a hard out today. Usually we have like hours to kill, but. KA thank you so much for coming on. Plug some Spawn on Me stuff before we plug more Spawn on Me stuff before we leave. Anything fun you got going on?

[Kyle]

Yeah, you can check out more of the show every week on Spotify. All podcast platforms. We're trying to move to doing more videos. So YouTube and Spotify. You can go check out more stuff there. We're debuting a new show with me and Paris Lily very soon.

[Mary]

I love Paris. You guys cooking? What are you doing?

[Kyle]

No cooking. We're calling it the. The Positivity Peddler Show. So we're going to be talking about all the other things that are non gaming that'll be debuting very soon on Patreon. And then, yeah, I'm trying to get the Spawnies together and making that happen for this year. So if you have some money and you want to do a dope award show, come talk to me. Come hang out.

[Mike]

Mary, what about you?

[Mary]

I stream on Twitch every Monday. I usually stream the games that we talk about. So that was pretty fun. So you can catch me there. That's about it.

[Mike]

And then we have the. It's bi weekly for us and also bi weekly for Next Lander. Vinnie and I have been playing Total Warhammer 32 co op campaigns. They're going well. They're very fun. Vinnie definitely did not get fucked up in one of them. That was a bottle episode. It was just a fl. It was like a hallucination. We're categorizing as but you can subscribe here for the one where we play as good people saving the world. You could subscribe to nextlander for the one where we play as evil people destroying it. It's been super fun. That's our show. It's episode 105. Six. It's a bunch six. Good hosting, Mike. We'll be back in a couple weeks, see if all three of the normal cast members are here. If not.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

It's always fun to see who we get to sub in. K. Been super fun hanging out.

[Mary]

Yeah. Thank you for doing this. K. Appreciate it.

[Kyle]

I'm. Well, we got to get rid of Dan. I'm down.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Oh, we me and you know how to get rid of people. So we'll we'll figure that out and and we'll be back in a couple weeks. Thanks for joining everybody. See you then.

[Mary]

Thanks, everybody. Bye.