Fire Escape Cast #137

Summary

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Fire Escape Cast #137 — Detailed Summary

Date: July 20, 2026
Hosts: Dan Ryckert, Mary Kish, Mike Mahardy
Theme: A cross-country catch-up on movies (primarily Nolan’s "The Odyssey") and a parade of summer video game discoveries, indie highlights, and community gaming tools, all underpinned by the group’s trademark banter and pop culture digressions.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on the crew's anticipation and discussion of Christopher Nolan's ambitious new film adaptation of The Odyssey. Along the way, they unpack perceptions of mythology vs. history, the impact of stories on other media (including video games), and the cyclical nature of narrative. The second half shifts into enthusiastic video game recommendations: newly discovered indies, community-driven retro initiatives, and the perennial challenge of returning to old games. The group also fields listener questions about DLC anxiety and fondness for simple pleasures over "best-in-class" experiences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Banter About City Demonyms (00:37–06:14)

• The crew riffs on what you call citizens of various global cities (e.g., "Shanghainese," "Liverpudlians," "Mancunian," "Winnipegger").
• Mary highlights the inside-joke quality of some nicknames.
• Quote:
  "These are not...this is not what I meant. A lot of these sound like slurs."
  — Dan (04:01)
• Amused chatter about "Frisco"/"San Fran" faux pas for San Francisco.

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2. The "Odyssey" Anticipation & Myth-vs-History Chat (06:27–23:47)

a. Dan’s Movie Background and Confusion (06:27–15:25)

• Dan discusses going to see "The Odyssey" film with little prior knowledge.
• "Castles and swords" times all blend together; he confuses historical and mythological figures (like Joan of Arc vs. Helen of Troy).
• Quote:
  "Once you get to castles and swords times, I don’t really know what’s from mythology, what’s from Shakespeare, what’s fantasy—it’s all just castles and swords."
  — Dan (09:16)
• The influence of The Odyssey on modern media (Zelda, God of War, O Brother Where Art Thou) comes up.

b. Historical Inaccuracies & Storytelling (13:46–23:47)

• Mary elaborates on how oral storytelling turns fact into myth—"over generations, it gets more whimsical… it just starts exaggerating" (14:17).
• Discussions on the real/fake aspects of the Trojan War and other ancient myths.
• Mixed feelings about mythologizing history; confusion over what parts of films like "Troy" (the movie) are real.
• Quote:
  "There was a city called Troy… but there wasn’t like a 10-year siege over Helen of Troy."
  — Mike (20:52)
• The hosts segue into the technical feats of shooting "The Odyssey" in IMAX, challenges for actors and directors, and Nolan's love of analog filmmaking.

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3. "The Odyssey" — Spoiler-Free Film Reactions (23:47–35:52)

• Mary describes the film as "mythical yet human," noting grounded portrayals of gods and monsters.
• Notable scenes: Odysseus disguising himself, modern versus ancient costuming, and 3D-printed armor controversies.
• Great ensemble cast: Matt Damon as Odysseus, Zendaya, Lupita Nyong’o, Robert Pattinson, Anne Hathaway, John Bernthal.
• Some pushback from "incels" over diverse casting (Athena played by a Black actress).
  • Quote:
    "Athena—who was birthed out of a fucking swan’s egg—they were pissed this was not a realistic white character."
    — Mike (24:33)
• Script updates merge old language with the modern, sometimes jarring.
• Not so much a "fun" movie ("You will not laugh in this film" — Mary 20:13), but visually stunning and intense.

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4. Shared DNA of Epic Stories (15:25, 35:52–48:40)

• Dialogue on the "Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey" monomyth:
  "There's only like, four original stories… everything's a variation." — Mike (15:25)
• Connections between ancient tropes (journey, return, suffering) and their echo throughout film, literature, and video games.
• Mary shares her surprising reliance on Wishbone the dog’s version of The Odyssey to track the plot (!)
• Recommendation to see it in any format available, not just IMAX; length (3 hours) and food/drink strategies, plus best movie snacking practices.

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5. Quick Movie Tangents (Barbenheimer, Hot Takes) (34:02–35:52)

• Brief takes on "Oppenheimer" and "Barbie"—which did each outlandish thing better?
  • "Barbie was like, 'We're going to the magical gumdrop kingdom!'" — Mary (34:45).

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6. Video Games: Summer Discoveries & Recommendations (48:40–83:58)

a. Teratech Legion (49:00–52:44)

• Mike praises this "build-your-own-vehicle" auto-shooter as balancing momentum and strategic fiddling.
• "It's not that that's taking away from the momentum… it's like you are putting more thought into it. It's very Resident Evil 4 attache case." — Mike (49:30)
• Endorsement for both PC and Steam Deck play.

b. Dent Attack! (52:53–61:57)

• Recent release; described as "Thumper meets Tony Hawk meets Dreamcast weirdness."
• Mary thinks it's more whimsical and childlike than Thumper; forgiving, filled with secret tricks and silly, surreal setpieces.
• Good portable game, generous price point ($18).

c. Thronefall (62:28–70:56)

• Mike’s indie find—a mash-up of base-building, light tower defense, and Vampire Survivors-style horde management.
• Accessible yet grows in challenge; beautiful minimalist art reminiscent of Dorfromantic/Settlers of Catan.
• "It starts off chill and cozy, and then suddenly you’re coordinating siege defenses." — Mike (62:41)

d. Heave Ho 2 (71:12–74:43)

• New multiplayer-focused chaos platformer, perfect for gatherings (minimum two players).
• Added features: competitive multiplayer modes, drones for helping stragglers.
• Memorable moment: Mary tries to play single-player:
  "It's pretty sad, you guys… I was trying to fling my own lonely ass around and I just quit."
  — Mary (73:20)

e. Mary’s Indie Bargain Bin: Rapid-Fire Picks (74:58–84:17)

Scale the Depths

• Cozy fishing-cooking-feeding sim; purely chill, beautifully simple.
  "This one will cure what ails you… for people looking for a chill game." — Mary (77:56)

Cat Mail Company

• First-person cat post office manager; sort, sticker, Tetris mail for feline clients.
  "This is for people who like organizing mail and having a cozy job." — Mary (80:52)

Tilted Golf

• Steam Deck/mobile-focused, gyro-controlled golf ball puzzle game.
  "It is Breath of the Wild's mini-game, and great for quick sessions." — Mary (82:51)

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7. RetroAchievements & Clone Hero: Community-Powered Retro Gaming (84:17–92:44)

• Dan explains how RetroAchievements breathes new life into replaying favorites:
  • Adds fan-made challenges/achievements to thousands of old games.
  • "It's giving me different ways to play... fun new challenges." — Dan (85:37)
• Clone Hero lets players bring Guitar Hero/Rock Band play back—community charts, leaderboards, tons of custom songs.
  • Legal gray areas; flourishing underground following.

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8. Listener Q&A (96:14–109:36)

Q1: Returning to a Game After a Long Break — How Do You Get Back In? (96:14–103:49)

• Most find it hard or prefer to start from scratch, especially with complicated mechanics (e.g. Soulslikes, Metroidvanias).
• "Developers don’t design for six months away, just the first two weeks after release." — Mike (102:16)
• Consensus: You’re NOT overthinking it—enjoy the game, move on if the moment is past.

Q2: "Best-of" vs. Cheap Comforts — What Do You Still Prefer Low-Brow? (104:12–109:36)

• Dan: Lyon’s Tap basic burger beats upscale truffle-laden ones every time.
• Mary: American cheese & basic loaded fries > any gourmet take.
• Mike: Gas station coffee and Wonderbread with BBQ are essential for certain experiences.
• Stories: San Francisco’s chicken wing strip club deal, lunch at the Gold Club for cheap eats.

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Notable Quotes

• On myth vs. reality:
  "I don't know the difference between Dracula times, Medieval or Renaissance, or like even Da Vinci, it all just kind of is swords and castles time." — Dan (10:23)

• On storytelling exaggeration:
  "It gets more whimsical, more obtuse, more exciting… Her face launched a thousand ships." — Mary (14:17)

• On gaming nostalgia:
  "RetroAchievements is breathing new life into old games… It’s just making it all feel fresh." — Dan (87:13)

• Movie-watching rituals:
  "Boneless wings and the Odyssey was where it was at… Not that it's boring, but three hours is a long time." — Mary (32:30)

• On Nolan’s male-centered work:
  "Nolan makes films about the terrible feelings of a man and that is what he is known for… how hard it is for dudes." — Mary (41:55)

• On cheap food joys:
  "I want jet fuel coffee at a gas station on a road trip… If I’m at a diner, I want the lowest common denominator." — Mike (107:01)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• City Demonym Banter: 00:37–06:14
• Odyssey & Myth/History: 06:27–23:47
• Odyssey Film Discourse: 23:47–35:52
• Epic Stories & Tropes: 15:25, 35:52–48:40
• Video Game Discoveries: 48:40–83:58
• RetroAchievements & Clone Hero: 84:17–92:44
• Listener Q&A: 96:14–109:36
• Wrap-up & Sign-off: 109:42–end

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Notable/Memorable Moments

• Mary realizing the full plot of The Odyssey thanks to a Wishbone episode (27:03).
• Mary’s heartfelt case for fries and wings being best as affordable bar food, not “gourmet.”
• Lively defense over favorite city and state nicknames.
• Dan’s incredulity at the expectation to know myth from reality.
• Group’s consistent camaraderie, self-deprecating movie hot takes, and appreciative shoutouts to community-driven projects and games.

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For New Listeners

If you're catching up, this episode is a great blend of movie geekery, approachable but deep games chat, and the hosts’ personalities in full color. It’s a showcase of why the Fire Escape Cast resonates: honest confusion, hearty recommendations, and the joy of finding meaning (and fun) everywhere from movie bars to Steam Deck oddities.

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Transcript

[Mary]

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[Mike]

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Fire escape cast. It is episode 137, I think it is, 9:13pm in Shanghai. Hello to all our listeners there. We're millions. Yeah, millions.

[Mary]

Well big in Shanghai.

[Mike]

I think it's only in the hundreds of thousands in Shanghai.

[Dan]

That's our main demo.

[Mike]

No, sorry. Thousand in China. About 20k of them are in Shanghai. Spread around the country, which is nice.

[Mary]

We love Shanghai and Shanghai loves us.

[Mike]

Yes. Well, that's me.

[Dan]

Hi.

[Mike]

And that's Mary.

[Mary]

Hello. It's called Shanghai ins. How do you.

[Mike]

I don't know.

[Dan]

It can't be Shanghai Ins is how you say it.

[Mike]

Let me look it up. Some. Some city citizens have cool names like Liverpool's. They're a Liverpudlian.

[Dan]

That's fun. That sounds like a. That sounds like. What's the thing with the little people?

[Mike]

The giant Lilliputian.

[Dan]

Is that it?

[Mike]

You're Jonathan Swift.

[Dan]

Whatever. There's the monster guy and then he lives in like a bunch. Like a kingdom for Keplings type thing.

[Mike]

Yeah, Like, I think it's Lilliputians.

[Dan]

Yeah, it's like a fun name.

[Mike]

They are as a Shanghai Shanghainese.

[Dan]

No, it's not Shanghainese.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Amazing.

[Mike]

In Mandarin Chinese they're referred to as Shanghai.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mary]

Love them even more.

[Mike]

Yeah. Shanghainese people. Ethnic subgroup of Han Chinese who have ancestral roots from Shanghai.

[Dan]

Okay. You learn something every day.

[Mike]

Yeah. Cool. There's Liverpuddling. Like what are Fun city. I don't even know how to say that. Fun nicknames of your people.

[Dan]

They do it for cities and countries.

[Mike]

Oh, here we go.

[Dan]

Canadians isn't funny. Mexicans isn't funny. Americans isn't funny.

[Mike]

Is not Boston mess holes. Just Massachusetts.

[Dan]

Right? Yeah.

[Mike]

Hartlepool are called Monk. Oh, okay. These are not actual. Yeah, These are like Mary said, nicknames.

[Mary]

Yeah. And they're probably given by the locals. And you're not even supposed to know them because you're not from there. You know what I mean? It's like we don't belong here. We shouldn't. If you go into some of these places and call them these things. They'll punch you in the face.

[Dan]

It's like the San Francisco thing. Like the people that say Frisco and stuff like that, you know?

[Mary]

Like, I remember when I first moved there and said San Fran, and they were like, don't say that.

[Dan]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Mary]

I didn't know.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I Google, what can you not say to San Francisco?

[Dan]

You know what I mean?

[Mary]

I think. What. What's so annoying about it?

[Mike]

I'm married, but I called it Frisco.

[Mary]

I called it Sand Fran.

[Dan]

I'm so West Coast. I'm from Australia.

[Mary]

Short it. Shortening it is fair.

[Mike]

Sf, I know, is also accepted, but it's San Francisco sf or just the city. If you're not. Yeah. If you're in there but you in Michigan and then Upper Peninsula. Upper Peninsula.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah, I heard that last year. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that thing.

[Mike]

And I don't. I've never heard this other one. If you. There's a bridge that connects the peninsulas. If you live below the bridge, you're a troll. According to Reddit. Like, you live below a bridge.

[Dan]

Okay. It's a.

[Mike]

Under a bridge.

[Mary]

I would not say that to the locals.

[Mike]

Yeah, I know.

[Mary]

I just ran out of gas. Troll. Do you think you could help me out?

[Mike]

My brother. My brother's a troll. Hey, Troll, can you give me a ride to the airport? Troll.

[Dan]

Answering riddles even when you're not asked one.

[Mary]

Mike Marty was last seen below the bridge.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Somewhere in Mackinac cheese heads. That's.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

These are. These are not. This is not what I meant.

[Dan]

A lot of these sound like slurs.

[Mike]

Yep.

[Mary]

They're dangerously close. Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Again, I think you have to. You have to be there.

[Mike]

Well, here we go. That's what we wanted. Liverpool is Liverpudlian. Manchester is a Mancunian. Monaco is Monegas.

[Mary]

I don't know about that one.

[Mike]

Glasgow. Glasgow is Glaswegian. I've heard that.

[Dan]

That's fun.

[Mary]

That's fun.

[Mike]

Halifax is Caledonian, Dan.

[Mary]

I have the same reaction based on how silly they sound.

[Dan]

If it just doesn't end with an ns, it's fine.

[Mike]

Oh, this one's good. Winnipeg is a Winnipegger.

[Mary]

I would definitely not use that in the local area. What's up, Peggers?

[Mike]

I thought Kea was all of Quebec. Apparently.

[Dan]

That's fun.

[Mike]

Yeah. Aberdonian, Hobart. I'm trying to find, like, a fun one. Oh, this is good. There's a place in France called Condom.

[Dan]

There's a Condom Waklah is okie.

[Mike]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan]

Okie from Muskoki. Yeah.

[Mike]

What's. Like, what's.

[Mary]

That's nice. I like a good rhyme or an alliteration. I can get behind all those. And if it has some kind of silliness to it.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mary]

But other than that, interesting.

[Mike]

Okay. Well, yeah, that's. That's cool. I'm. I'm a Liverpool, and I'm from Liverpool, New York.

[Dan]

Do people say that there?

[Mike]

I have no idea. I just always said, oh, he's from Liverpool.

[Mary]

Anyone who said no, they called me a troll, too. Around New York City is a troll. You're a troll.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was not related to my geographical location. They just called me a troll, coincidentally, because I don't.

[Mary]

It was a nickname and it stuck and I've kind of gotten accustomed to it now. When someone says troll, I. I resp. I assume that's me.

[Mike]

What is Minneapolis? You just say Minnesotan.

[Dan]

Like, Minnesotans. Yeah, like, yeah, there's. From the Twin Cities.

[Mary]

Minnesotan.

[Dan]

I don't.

[Mike]

Do you call people from Minneapolis, Twin Cities, Denizen. Mini Minneapolitans.

[Dan]

No one says that.

[Mary]

No one says that sounds exactly.

[Dan]

No one's ever said that. No.

[Mary]

I don't like that.

[Dan]

No.

[Mike]

You should try a Juicy Lucy if you're in Minnesota. Thanks. Gemini off. You don't know any. You don't know shit about Juicy Lucy's AI is so stupid.

[Dan]

Wow. Getting political.

[Mike]

Dan, what's new with you?

[Dan]

I. I watched a movie this morning.

[Mike]

Yeah. You've mentioned this, and you did not say what it was, so.

[Dan]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mike]

Killing me.

[Dan]

So I'm seeing the Odyssey tomorrow and I want to touch on that with Mary here because I've got some thoughts going into it because it's like, I don't know anything about the Odyssey I like. And it's funny because, like, I've been talking on giant bomb stuff this week about the Odyssey, and people are getting mad at me as they are. Want to do.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Mary]

It's a pretty iconic story, right?

[Mike]

Yeah. Like, I know broad strokes, but I also don't. I, like, have never read the Odyssey.

[Dan]

There we go. And you've read, like, every goddamn book in the world.

[Mike]

I know the broad strokes of the Iliad, the Odyssey, like Homer's. I understand, like, off, like, certain story

[Mary]

trips to you, but I do know it.

[Mike]

No, I know what they are, but it's not like I could tell you every plot point from every version. The Odyssey.

[Mary]

That is not what reading is.

[Dan]

Well, it's not just that.

[Mike]

Okay, well, okay.

[Dan]

People were complaining that, like, I was saying, like, well, you know, I'm from Kansas. They didn't teach us this stuff. And like, somebody in the comments said, like, I'm went to your school district. Like, they was definitely part of the curriculum.

[Mike]

I was your classics teacher.

[Dan]

I taught you this. And then I do kind of remember we had an 8th grade project called the Odyssey where we were supposed to put together as the end of the year thing, where it's like my Odyssey, and we put together, like, a timeline of our life and essays about things that happened to us. And I did kind of remember that we were supposed to also read the Odyssey as part of it. So I do think they did try to teach it to me.

[Mary]

I think maybe you have remnants of it in there. Like, when you watch it, maybe you'll be like, oh, my God. Yeah, I do think I know this part of the story. There's like, eight parts.

[Dan]

I think I will. There will be, like, creatures and stuff. And like, oh, I remember this thing, or whatever, and I'll get to how that ties in the movie I watched this morning. But the thing I think you. Right. Yeah. Well, I know I don't know that I'm thinking of American Gladiators.

[Mike]

The, like, Zelda, like most of Zelda Miyamoto has said, like, the idea of a temple that you're descending into to fight a boss is what Odysseus did in the maze.

[Dan]

Oh, okay.

[Mike]

So if you don't know it, you have. You understand.

[Dan]

I'm sure I've seen a billion things that were inspired by it or directly reference it and just didn't, like, God of War, you know, like, all of those creatures and stuff.

[Mary]

Well, I also know stuff that are vague, like, oh, brother, we're out there is. Is very directly connected to the Iliad. And, like, people might not directly recognize it, but now, after tomorrow, once you've seen it, if you rewatch oh, Brother, we're out thou, you'll be like, oh, my God, I get it. So it's all connected.

[Dan]

That's the thing. I read about all the, like, movies I see and everything, and I do. It does like, oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? It came up with that. So I knew watching oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? That it was based on the Odyssey and everything, but, like, I just don't know the actual story, so. But the thing that got me. Okay, I think the main thing I said that made people upset was I was talking about how, like, I don't know a lot of, like, Once you get to like castles and swords times, I don't really know what's from mythology, what's from Shakespeare, what's from. It's all just castles and swords. Real.

[Mary]

And what's fantasy.

[Dan]

That's a key one. They. That didn't make people as mad as when I said I didn't know if Joan of Arc or Helen of Troy were real. And apparently one of them is very real and one of them's.

[Mike]

Joan of Arc is a real person.

[Mary]

She really, she was really burned really badly.

[Mike]

Really tragic figure in history.

[Dan]

That's the thing. I didn't know if that was from a Shakespeare thing or something.

[Mike]

I. Dan, I'll be the first to tell you if you're being stupid for something I don't think you. That's crazy.

[Mary]

I can't believe, I can't believe Watergate was.

[Mike]

Let me say, let me say what probably pissed people off is that's like maybe they thought that's disrespectful to Joan of Arc, who's a new, a very real person and like. But I don't think that's indefensible. Or wait, I. Yeah, I don't think that's the end of the world.

[Dan]

I mean, it's just like this is not an era or anything I know anything about. So like that kind of goes into what I was thinking today watching this movie is cuz like, you know, again, castles, swords, I don't know the difference between medieval or Renaissance or like even like Dracula. I was going to say Dracula times not. I know Dracula's not real.

[Mike]

Dracula's real, but you know what I

[Dan]

mean, like, like Nosferatu, like you know, the 1800s or whatever. Probably. You know, it's like that's all just kind of like melts.

[Mary]

He's here. He's in our senate.

[Mike]

Dan, I just lowered you a ladder into the hole and instead of climbing up my ladder, you start furiously digging deeper. I get what you mean. I don't think the Joan of Arc, Helen of Troy thing is the end of the world.

[Dan]

Right. And for the record, I'm not saying at any point I even entertain the idea of Dracula being real. I'm just saying that time period in medieval times and Da Vinci and all this, it all just kind of is swords and castles time.

[Mike]

To me, anything pre, like revolutionary, pre 1900s, basically.

[Dan]

I'm like, it's all just kind of,

[Mike]

you know, the difference between like revolutionary war and like, like medieval kings.

[Dan]

Yeah. Like knight suits of armor and revolutionary or. Yes.

[Mike]

I can like Hundreds and years of years. But, like, there's a difference between muskets and, like.

[Dan]

Yeah, so once there's. Once there's guns. Yeah, totally. Once there's guns and America. Like, I know that's different than, like, knights and torture and stuff like that, but this morning, I. So I had to run 12 miles today as part of the marathon training. I mean, for part of the marathon training. Yeah. It's like. It's a schedule, you know, so it's like. And I did the. The math, and I'm like, I need a long movie to watch for this. And I'm like. I'm just kind of, like, looking through what's on Netflix and stuff. And I'd never seen the Northman. Have you guys seen this?

[Mike]

Yeah. What's his name?

[Dan]

David Eggers and one of the 40s Skarsgard kids.

[Mary]

Yeah, it's very gray.

[Mike]

Bill or Stellan or one of those. Bill is Pennywise. Stellan is the dad.

[Dan]

It's the guy from Succession.

[Mike]

Succession.

[Dan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

Alex.

[Dan]

And so, okay, I guess I'll lightly spoil some Northman here, so skip ahead a little bit if you're worried about that. But it's like. So I go into this, and anytime I see, like, a year. And so, again, swords and castles. I think my default brain state is assuming, like, well, this is probably loosely based on reality. And I think it's like. Like, in that Braveheart way where, you know, like, Braveheart is like. My understanding is that, like, okay, this is based on an actual war. William Wallace was an actual guy. They probably took a lot of creative liberties. But this is loosely kind of stuff that happened, you know, and, like, fiction, I guess. Yeah. And so, like, I went into this. Yeah, I literally knew nothing about the Northman going in other than, like, a funny movie.

[Mike]

To think that the end. The final duel.

[Dan]

Well, that's what I'm thinking. I'm on this treadmill today, and I'm like, all right, well, this thing, it says, like, AD 1700 something, and it's like, Iceland. And I'm like, oh, okay. I wonder if this is, like, a real. Maybe this is how Iceland got founded or something.

[Mary]

It's like.

[Dan]

And then for, like, an hour. It's not totally supernatural. There's like. There's a part where he talks to Bjork, and she's like a raven. And it's like that. I'm like, okay, maybe this is, like, a dream or, like a drug trip or something or a vision he had. And, like, maybe this is still, like. Like, Iceland's origin or something. And then like, an hour in. I'm an hour into this movie, and it's like a talking skull is telling him he has to go fight a Stalfos knight to get a magic sword that, like, only has magic at night. And I'm like, okay, I don't think this happened.

[Mike]

Yeah, inside a volcano.

[Dan]

That's the thing. They're in a volcano. But it's so confusing because they're also talking about, like, Christians and stuff and, like, things that, like, in Iceland, they say Iceland and Christians and. And, like, terms that are in the real world. And I was like, let's pick a lane here. I don't know if this is supposed to be, like, super duper supernatural or if this is like, yeah, this is the Iceland War, you know?

[Mary]

But think about any time you have history that's really, really old, and it's passed down from generation to generation, often over like, a fire. And, like, kids that are listening over generations, it gets more whimsical, it gets more obtuse, it gets more exciting because these are stories that are being passed down. And so a lot of times, and this is kind of similar to Homer's journey as well. Like, there are elements where people are like, yeah, I mean, these places are real. Troy was real. These battles did happen. And then it's the details where people will say, well, she wasn't. You know, it wasn't just a battle over, like, a lady. It was the most beautiful woman in the world, and her face launched a, you know, thousand ships. And it's like, it just starts exaggerating. So there is a possibility to some degree that even, like, these happened. And then somewhere between the eighth and the ninth generation, they were like. They were in a volcano when they fought each other, and all the kids are eating this shit up. And I think it's genuinely how culture tells stories over time.

[Dan]

Yeah, but it gets so twisted where it's like. Because I did look it up afterwards to be like, all right, is this based on a myth or an actual figure of some sort? And, like, I looked it up, and it's like the guy's name was, like, amulet or something, or Amulet or something is his name. And then I click the link of, like, okay, it's from this guy, Sage of Britannica or whatever, and the 1200s. And turns out this guy's also the character that Hamlet was based on, which I don't know shit all about Hamlet, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a guy killing his uncle in a Volcano. What the fuck is this? Like, how does this happen?

[Mike]

It's like, what do you want to call it? Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey? Like, Star wars is basically taking that one for one. George Lucas just read that. I was like, I'm going to do this, but it's going to be a space opera. There's only, like. I don't. I'm exaggerating here, but there's only, like, four original stor. There's Gilgamesh, there's Beowulf, and then. I'm forgetting, like, one or two. But then every single hero story from you, it's like, this is very, very stupid. There's really only six cocktails, but every single cocktail you've ever tried is like a variation of those. It's similar. It's like, no, a. Like a last word or a last word is not the same as a Negroni. But they basically have their roots in the same thing. Like, similar, like, stories. It's like there's the same tropes that are repeated throughout thousands of years, but, like, okay, the original one itself.

[Mary]

Same thing with music, too. I mean, there's like, not as many chords as you think a lot of times.

[Dan]

Yeah, you got guitar, you got bleep loops, you got.

[Mike]

You know. But that's like. There's the scene in the. What was that movie? I think it was Greg Kinnear.

[Dan]

It was good as it gets.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Dan]

Wow.

[Mike]

No, that's actually not it. Oh, there's a.

[Mary]

He's a lawyer, also based off of the Iliad.

[Mike]

And basically they are trying, like, the. He's a. I think he's a defense lawyer for someone who invented something like some sort of windshield wiper. I'm butchering the fucking details. People can email me and tell me what it really is, but the gist of it. He's a defendant saying, like, okay, did Shakespeare invent this word? And they're like, no. He's like, did Shakespeare invent this word? No. He's like, okay, but did Shakespeare write this sentence? And they're like, like, I'm to be or not to be? And they're like, yeah. He's like, like, okay. So just because he used the constituent parts to form the sentence does not mean that the person who originally made those words are, like, has, like, patent rights over. He's trying to show how, like, you can combine things. But, like, at the end of the day, Shakespeare is still using the English language, but it doesn't mean that his stories are the same as anybody else writing the English language, even though they come from the same source. It's very. I don't know, I got. I forget what the movie. I think it was windshield wipers. I don't know why that stuck in my head. But yeah, similarly, it's like if you really look at any story, like Annihilation is kind of like the Odyssey because it's four people. Like. I don't know. The gist of the Odyssey is that Odysseus is getting back, trying to go home after a 10 year war. That's the basic premise.

[Mary]

Yeah. Iliad is like the journey and Odyssey is the journey home.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah. And that's where the. The word Odyssey comes from. But.

[Dan]

And is the war supposed to be the war of like Troy?

[Mary]

Battle of Troy is within the war. Kind of at the crux of it.

[Dan]

Then this is what's me up. Because I saw Troy, the Brad Pitt one.

[Mary]

Yeah, that's a good one. And it's like he's Achilles, isn't he?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Dan]

I think, I assume that was like a Saving Private Ryan type. Like, here's what the war was like, you know, like, that's.

[Mike]

That's all. Yeah, that's. That's.

[Mary]

Dude. When he like slowly lowers the knife into his heel and he's like, no, no. And he's like. And then slowly puts the knife into his.

[Dan]

I don't see what we're doing here.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's good.

[Mary]

Thank you.

[Mike]

No, but like that.

[Dan]

Wait, before we move on, is that. Was the Trojan War real?

[Mike]

The Trojan.

[Mary]

So the movie itself, There was a war in Troy.

[Dan]

There was the horse thing happen?

[Mike]

No, that, that was.

[Mary]

That is a myth.

[Mike]

No.

[Dan]

Do you see why this is confusing?

[Mike]

Right? Yes.

[Dan]

Okay. Okay.

[Mike]

Mentioned in the. I believe it was mentioned in the Odyssey. But it's like. What the hell is the word? It's not the Iliad. It's not the Odyssey. The A need Aeneid. That's another Homer story. And I believe that deeper into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mary]

And so does this movie. And so that's kind of important context for people who are. I mean, everyone's hearing about this movie because it's like the first movie that was ever made completely on imax, which is a huge obstacle in cinema. This machine is like extremely heavy and loud and it creates all these problems, which I never make movies with it.

[Dan]

I also heard the camera only the magazine is only three minutes of film. So you had to shoot like three minutes at a time, which is insane.

[Mike]

I think it was so Much memory that it.

[Mary]

It was a huge slog to get it done. And they. They had to invent stuff for it too, which is fascinating. Just really quickly, the actors. Because the machine is so goddamn big, it's in between them while they're shooting so that the actors can't see each other. So they had to invent a series of mirrors so that the actors could look at each other while they're filming. Because the camera was so big. It's in the way, it's in the scene. So they had to invent all these things to make sure they could see each other. And then when a. Yeah. Like if a actor was supposed to like, look down the barrel of the gun or like, you know, look, you know, directly into the camera, they had to like, be like, here is where you should look because it's. You're just like looking into this giant.

[Dan]

Doing it a lot. Doing a lot of Ferris Bueller monologues to the lens.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

It's constantly.

[Dan]

The wacky Odyssey I'm on.

[Mary]

You're gonna be amazed with how much you will not laugh in this film.

[Dan]

Oh, really?

[Mary]

Not funny at all.

[Mike]

They're trying to be funny in certain parts and it's not. Or it's just.

[Mary]

It's never funny. No, it's just not a. It's not a joke. It's never funny. It's like a very intense. And it's three hours.

[Mike]

Oh, yeah, that's what I wanted. I have a bunch of questions for you. And we're not, to be clear, we're not spoiling anything.

[Mary]

And like, I will not spoil.

[Mike]

Like if you are someone who is really into the Odyssey or the Iliad and want to know, like. Like we were talking like the Trojan War, as it's described in the story pretty much did not happen. But there was a city called Troy, stuff like that. Like if.

[Mary]

And there was a war. Yeah, like there were there, but there

[Mike]

wasn't like a 10 year siege they. Over Helen of Troy, etc.

[Dan]

But like it was Helena Troy, a real person.

[Mike]

I don't think so.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

I think she was an invention in myth. She was like Zeus's. One of Zeus's daughters, I think.

[Mary]

And then. And this is very much based on. On gods. So in this movie there's gods everywhere. But I think in this version of it, the vision for this film feels mythical yet human because the gods don't look like gods.

[Dan]

It's not like God of war, is it? It's.

[Mary]

It's. Well, they have like people who look like People who are gods. Does that make sense? Yes.

[Dan]

I mean, our dudes are dudes, like throwing lightning bolts and stuff.

[Mary]

No, it's not like that. It's more like ethereal. But there are, there are mystical. There are several mystical creatures or like things where you're like, that ain't human. That's not normal. And that's.

[Mike]

It's spectacular to look, my, My friend said it's as good as. It's the most grounded version of a story with actual cyclopses that he's seen.

[Mary]

Okay, yeah, like there's a couple of monsters or things that aren't human. But then there's also things that I suspect in the, in the, in the books are meant to be much more wild looking. And in this movie they feel grounded. Maybe the person is bigger than they should be, but they still look like people. Does that make sense? Or maybe like, I think in the end. And again, I won't spoil it, but there's like a. There's like a scene where I think Homer is supposed to be. Or. Sorry, Odysseus. I don't know why I keep calling him Homer, which is Matt Damon. Odysseus is meant to disguise himself. And I think in more of like the books and stuff, it's like he's using magic. Like gods are disguising him and so it probably looks so cool. And in this one, it's like I probably. He has like a cloak on him. He's like wearing like glasses. He's like wearing a robe and you can't see his face. And I was like, I don't think it's interesting, right? Like it's, it's weirdly grounded to be like, he's disguised. You can't see him, can you? But I don't think that was like the original interpretation of it. But nevertheless, that makes you feel very grounded when you watch it. Because when something not normal happens, it's a spectacle. It's shocking because I like the idea

[Dan]

of the cloak guy being just like. And we're gonna cut corners on some costs here. It'd be kind of exciting.

[Mary]

I know I've, I. There's been some people that have ragged on the set. Not the set, the outfits. And it just kind of looks like some of them are 3D printed, which I'm sure is true. I'm. I'm sure that's helped a lot with like the way that they've made certain shields and helmets. Like they're. The design of the warriors. Looks awesome, I think. And I think some People have been like, these look ridiculously 3D printed. But I just think it's. They wanted a new version and they wanted a new vision, and so they took some. They took some risks.

[Mike]

I saw the shot of Menelaus hunting Jon Bernthal's character with like a bow and arrow, but his armor looks like. Someone said it looks like Lululemon made hunting armor. And I was like, I have. Okay. There's a lot of, like, controversy surrounding this movie. That's bullshit. And people need to get off the Internet. But for that screenshot, I was like, yeah, that's kind of on the nose, actually.

[Mary]

I'm fully in agreement with you, Mike. Like, they're. They're. There were like, casting things that people were like, I can't believe you'd cast these people.

[Mike]

And I was like, this is getting pissed.

[Mary]

This movie is perfectly cast.

[Dan]

Wait, Incels are mad about the Odyssey?

[Mike]

Oh, I mean, we don't have to get too far into it.

[Mary]

I don't even want to touch on it.

[Dan]

Give me a one sentence. What is like too woke or whatever about the Odyssey?

[Mike]

Athena is played by a black actor.

[Dan]

I see. Okay, that's. Say no more. Say no more.

[Mike]

Athena who was birthed out of a fucking swan's egg. They were pissed that this was not a realistic white character. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, Mary.

[Mary]

And also, this character is supposed to be, like, stunningly beautiful. She's written stunningly beautiful and she's played by the most stunningly beautiful actress. Like, it's unbelievable. And so, like, I think it's unnecessary to even go down that route. The point is, the casting is extremely good. The acting is very good. But you also have to recognize all of this dialogue was written in yesteryear. It was written so long ago that half of it wouldn't make sense. So they had to rewrite it in modern day speak because wouldn't translate well. If you literally tried to make Hamlet today, the way they talk, you'd be like, I don't get it. What's going on? Like, who's. Who's. Who's with who? Because of that, I think sometimes the writing will suck you. It sucked me out of the film where I was like, well, I wouldn't say that. It's just like, that's how they talk. They tried to merge old ass language with the way we talk today. And sometimes that means, you know, six, seven, or. Yeah, they're saying, like, you know, I'm not going to take this. L. They're running around with a. With a mix of dialogue, but I think it's a really nice mix of the worlds and it's a feast for the eyes in terms of how many times I went. Ooh. Like that is a lot of times you're like leaning back in your chair because the action sequences or the. These poor dudes. The general plot here is, is this is after the war, they are ready to go home. This is a bunch of really strong men. They're all warriors. They're all extremely good at what they did because they just did a war and won because they're so good. But they keep coming into shit on their way home. And it is, it is like dire. Like it just keeps getting like, damn it. Just like hit after hit after hit to these like really strong dudes. So every time it happens, it's really shocking to watch these like really strong, very sure faced, muscular warriors face absurd situations. Not just in terms of like maybe a giant or like some kind of being, but also sneaky stuff like witches and sirens. And sirens are like an ethereal, you know. You know, there's like that lore that if you hear their song, you'll.

[Mike]

That's. That's.

[Mary]

The sirens call.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Honestly, I hate to say, but most of these things I'm probably gonna recognize from God of War.

[Mary]

Yeah. You know, I think you're absolutely right.

[Mike]

The games are cool. Like their interpretation. Yeah.

[Mary]

Luckily for me, because I also haven't. I haven't read these books, but I have seen the Wishbone episode. Wishbone was the dog that would play different characters in books and try and explain the books. And it is unbelievable to me how much my understanding of this Wishbone episode came in to serve me during this movie. I knew exactly what was. I knew it was gonna happen the whole time. You guys, if you've seen the Wishbone episode, you've seen this film and like, maybe the design is a little nicer, but like it's so funny. Even like the major plot, like the ending. It's Wishbone's episode, you guys. Like, I was, I was laughing. Yeah, he makes like a real quick appearance. So hilarious. Yeah, there. There is a pup in. There is a pup in the Odyssey, which is really good. And he's really cute and plays like a pretty vital role as he should. I. I was laughing at myself, like how much I mentioned something that I won't bring up now because I think it's too much of a spoiler. And my friends were like, that didn't happen in the books. And I closed my mouth because I was like, ooh That's a wishbone reference. They must have been wrong. It was in the movie. He was right the whole time. My friends must have, like, missed a piece of the book. But wishbone got it right and Mary got it right because I had washed wishbone. So, like, that episode, and maybe wishbone in general has saved me from embarrassing myself in terms of, like, not knowing what books were about.

[Dan]

Well, is it even, like, an applicable question to ask? Like, what year or time period does this take place in? Or is it just like, the past?

[Mary]

You know, I'm not sure if. Because it's so based in Greek mythology, if it has a year. Mike, you might be better to answer that. But generally when we talk about when

[Dan]

was the Trojan War.

[Mike]

Let me. Let me. I really don't know. The Trojan War, again, didn't really happen. It, like, in the way we know it.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

They don't even know.

[Mary]

Again, this is Greek mythology.

[Mike]

I'm gonna. I want to say Homer. Like, the Odyssey, the epic poem was like, oh, fuck, I'm gonna sound stupid. 400 BC. Okay, fact check that. That's not even fact checking it. See how close I was or just see, like, when was the Odyssey written?

[Dan]

Let's see. The Odyssey was.

[Mike]

It's absolutely bc. It's. It's. It's. It's a while ago.

[Dan]

Boy, it's. You'd think it's usually books. They just have a thing there. Okay. First composed around the 8th or 7th century BC. Jesus Christ.

[Mike]

8th or. Oh, damn it. I was gonna say 600. So, like. Okay. Or 800 BC. Yeah.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

I was not nearly far enough.

[Mary]

Yeah, it's. It's good. I will say, like, I didn't see it in imax, and I wish I had.

[Dan]

I'm doing imax.

[Mary]

Yeah, Yeah. I think you kind of cut out some of the. There were action scenes where I felt like it was really zoomed in because I'm losing. I was losing, like, probably a third of the screen.

[Dan]

You know, what I'm confused by is because, like, I know the IMAX thing is a huge deal with this, and so I want to make sure I'm, like, seeing it in the best possible way. And so I looked it up, and, like, the theater I'm seeing it at has, like, okay, IMAX with laser, which is what we're seeing, which sounds like

[Mary]

that's like, one of the lasers right into your eyes.

[Dan]

Yeah. But then there's IMAX. Like, there's a 70 millimeter one. And, like, I looked it up and I saw a Chart that shows the difference and it's like the polar opposite. Like IMAX is like a square. It almost looks like four by three. Yeah, yeah. And then 70 millimeter is just the most. Just like the super duper crazy. You got like four monitors strung together. Like, how can you shoot a movie for both? Like, I don't really understand how that works. Works.

[Mary]

I think. Yeah, they have. They have visuals guides when they're making this. Just like, Just like you do when you shoot anything, you recognize that there's a safety center that you could do it. But the way it was intended was on Imax in that 4x3 version.

[Mike]

So the laser, the one dancing.

[Mary]

Yeah, the laser is how I would see it. No, I saw it in a. I saw it on a broke boy theater. I saw it in a regular theater for regular people. I thought it was fantastic and I still enjoyed myself fully and I would. I think my lasting point is. Is like. Yes. I think I probably. There were some action scenes where I didn't see all of it. Right. I don't think I saw all of the detail that the director had in mind. It's a fuck. Movies are expensive. This movie was expensive to see as it was. My popcorn was like $20. See it however you want to see it. Like I saw it on a regular ass screen and I had a great time. And I. I don't know. I. I can't possibly. I don't feel like in good conscience I could say if you don't see it on imax, you're not seeing. It's like, shut the up, watch the movie. However you can afford to watch the movie and enjoy it. I thought it was great on a regular screen.

[Dan]

Is this a good. Because I love. I'm standing at an AMC and they got that McGuffins bar and I love getting drinks during movies.

[Mary]

I love getting a drink.

[Dan]

The gimmick drinks like they have. Like. So I'm looking at the. The hero's journey is the cocktail for this. And we're also seeing like a 10am damn show. Would this be a good drinking movie?

[Mary]

I think it's a good drinking movie because it's three hours.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mary]

And so I.

[Mike]

Do you think I can go three hours without a drink?

[Mary]

I know that's crazy.

[Mike]

I'll have the shakes by the final button on.

[Mary]

He's got a problem. I saw it at the place where they bring you like dinner and I got. I got boneless wings and it was awesome because I had coursed it out. So I did fried pickles as my apple with a drink. Boneless wings with loaded fries for my main. And then I got like, popcorn, salt and vinegar.

[Dan]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Mary]

My dessert. Yeah. Because I'm not much of a dessert person.

[Mike]

It's a bold person who gets bone in wings in a dark room.

[Dan]

Yeah. That's rough. Yeah. All over your hands.

[Mike]

Just say fuck it, and everybody hears you crunching and yelping. It's gonna be a nice poop.

[Dan]

I have a rack of ribs with. Yeah. No fork.

[Mary]

Oh, I could not imagine sidewalks with chopsticks. I have been to theaters that have, like, like full on nice meals, you know, like, like lamb chops and stuff like that. And I'm always like, it feels wrong to watch a movie with such a fine meal. I don't. The juxtaposition doesn't make sense to me. But. But Boneless Wings and the Odyssey was where it was at. Cause I was constant. I constantly had something to do. Right. You're constantly drinking and, like watching this and. Not that it's boring, but three hours is a long time. There are stretches where they're just like. Like on the water and they're like, I don't know, maybe we're lost. And it's like, all right, like another double, sir. Like, there are times I've. I've said this before. I think it's a controversial.

[Mike]

I don't think any movie truly needs

[Mary]

to be three hours. I don't. I do not believe so. Not in my heart of hearts. Except for Lord of the Rings extended edition that gets like one pass. Everything else, most of the time. I feel like you could have. You could have cut a couple of pieces from this.

[Mike]

Including his previous movie, which I thought Oppenheimer was wrong.

[Dan]

It's pretty.

[Mike]

Oppenheimer is long dob and Liheimer.

[Dan]

But I.

[Mike]

It was. There were some stretches were like, all right. I don't. I don't need this part of this courtroom hearing.

[Mary]

I heard that people who like that movie are called Oppenheimes.

[Dan]

Oh, nice.

[Mike]

Oh, nice, Nice.

[Dan]

That's a good one.

[Mike]

And Oppenheimer.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mary]

Yeah, I made that up.

[Mike]

It sounds right.

[Mary]

They don't have any fans. That movie is universally disliked.

[Dan]

It's fine. It's pretty good. I like it.

[Mary]

Yeah, I thought I made that up too.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Mary]

This is my.

[Mike]

That's my bit.

[Dan]

Saying things that aren't true.

[Mary]

Oppenheimer and I remember vividly.

[Dan]

Again, I did both.

[Mary]

I loved Barbenheimer and I. I remember walking out of Oppenheimer. I did Barbie second. I can't Remember? I actually remember I walked out of Oppenheimer saying, that's a film. And walking out of Barbie and being like, what the was that about?

[Dan]

Oh, I loved Barbie.

[Mary]

I'm not saying I didn't love it. I was like, it's just nonsensical. Barbie was like, we're to going. Going to the magical gumdrop kingdom. Get on the bike. I was like, I don't know what's going on. I knew exactly what was going on in Oppenheimer. They just talked a lot.

[Dan]

Oh, God.

[Mike]

Amanda and I both left bar. We saw Oppenheimer first with a few friends, then we saw Barbie and we're like, I think I liked Barbie more than Oppenheimer. I did too.

[Mary]

I liked Oppenheimer more. But I think they were both fun when actually Oppenheimer isn't fun at all. I think they were doing different things. They were doing.

[Mike]

They were trying to do very different things. Journey. What is it?

[Mary]

It?

[Dan]

Yeah, that's the thing. It's just a yellow drink with lemons in it. That's the maker's mark.

[Mike]

So it's with like, like a be.

[Dan]

Okay. It says tart honey spice cocktail with a legendary finish. Okay. Okay.

[Mike]

Am I thinking of a. Yeah, I think it's a bees knees honey lemon bourbon. I might be getting something. I might be confused.

[Mary]

There's only five cocktails.

[Mike]

There's only six of them.

[Mary]

Whiskey Source.

[Dan]

I love going to the bar at RMC because it's always the same bartender lady. She's great. She seems like, she's like, like this 50 year old. Probably worked a bunch of like dive bars her entire life. But then it's obvious she loves movies. And so every time I go in, she's like, all right, what are you seeing? They're like, oh, I'm see Odyssey. Oh, yeah, I saw you yesterday. It's awesome. It's like. And I always come out two or three times during the movie and get another drink or whatever. It's like, how's it going? What's going on? Did you get to this part? And it's like just chatting movies with this bartender getting gimmick drinks. Like, I love this.

[Mary]

Trying not to spoil that.

[Mike]

Would be awesome to have. Have to like to be a regular and have a usual at a movie theater bar. Yeah, she's got it ready for you at certain times. Be like, I'll be out at intermission, dude.

[Dan]

And there are times too where it's like, she gave me. I think the Dead Reckoning was the name of the cocktail for Mission Impossible. And it was, like, blue and had all this stuff in it. And she gave it to me. It's this giant, expensive drink. And then I came out to piss at one point during the movie, and she, like, ran across the, like, the thing to me, and she's like, get in here. Like, pulled me at McGuffins. And she's like, I forgot to put the pineapple juice in it. Here you go. Have another one. I was like, yes.

[Mike]

That's awesome.

[Mary]

Oh, that's a good bartender.

[Dan]

She's awesome. Yeah.

[Mary]

A good bartender is like, I messed up this drink, and I don't know. I mean, I can't drink it. Do you want to drink it? And it's like, we all know that I'm gonna drink this drink. I had the opposite experience. I went to. When I went to the bar, I got a. I got a whiskey sour, which they make with egg white and shaken. And I was like, great. That's how I like it. And then when I was in the theater, you order via QR code. And so I tried to order another whiskey sour via QR code, but in this theater, they don't have cocktails by list. You order the liquor and then the additives and then how you want it. And so I said, okay, it's a whiskey sour. So I want a double of bourbon. And then I said, I want sour mix, because that's what you need. And I want it served up. And so I. I ordered it, and I was like, I'm sure they know what to do. And I got a whiskey and. And sour mix neat on a. In a glass, and it was awful. And I. I drank it. But I was like, this is not what I wanted.

[Mike]

No, I wouldn't sour. Take some. A bit of prep. Yeah, but there's a weird approach. Egg whites listed on that list, I'm assuming.

[Mary]

No, they didn't have add egg to my content.

[Mike]

I get that in a. Like, in a. In a movie theater setting. But, like.

[Mary]

Like, I was hoping they'd put it together. I thought they would put it together. They did not put it together.

[Dan]

Well, that's weird to me because, like, this. This particular context sounds terrible for ordering a drink that way because, like, even if I went to a normal bar, like, I don't want it to be like a Chipotle or like, I go to a soft serve place and I pointed three toppings. I was like, I want to just like, if you're in a movie, you want to scan the QR code, press a button, and then Like, I don't like the idea of, like, putting together a drink while you're sitting in a seat at a movie. Like, it sounds.

[Mike]

You have to know the cocktail mix ingredients, which not everybody does at all. Like. Like. Yeah, that's. That's annoying. I. I think they're assuming you'll either want beer, wine, or, like, a mixed drink or something.

[Mary]

Yeah, the guy was like, I don't know. I got all this back here. What does she want from me? She wants. She wants a. She wants no ice. She wants it served up with. All right, whatever, lady. Here's your Google.

[Mike]

What does up mean?

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah. Who's your juice? Here's your juice and whiskey. And I was like, God damn it. That was my odyssey. Was Not. Was dealing with, like, alcohol. Anyway, I. I think people will like it. I. It's got great. It's got so much attention. I'm sure there's going to be the occasional hater, but my suspicion is that both of you will walk out of that and say, what a ride. Because that's truly what it is. You're watching, like, a group of burly men attempt to go home, and it's really fucking difficult.

[Mike]

I've seen every Nolan movie. I still have not seen Tenet.

[Dan]

That is sucks shit. That's the only one.

[Mike]

And I will say, every single movie by Christopher Nolan, even I would say maybe his weakest movie is the Dark Knight Rises.

[Dan]

No, it's Tenet.

[Mike]

I haven't seen Tenet. From what I've seen. Okay, I'll take your word for it. And I've heard that from some people. Yeah, I have. I know one person who defends it vehemently. And I'll tell you when we're.

[Dan]

They're an idiot.

[Mike]

I'll tell you when we're not recording.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

It's someone we like, to be fair. Put them on blast. Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

Not anymore. Wait. I'll look at my letterbox and see what people I know scored it.

[Mike]

His. His movies, I. They're always so easy to pick apart and say, this is so stupid. Like, oh, like Talia Al Ghul's death. Why didn't you do use a different take in Dark Knight Rise? But, like.

[Mary]

Oh, right.

[Mike]

That being said, they always stick with me in a way that I like going back to them. Interstellar. When I first saw it, I was like, that was messy as. But now that I go back, I'm like, that movie is actually, like, maybe top 25 for me, even though I could pick it apart.

[Dan]

Sure, sure. Most of his stuff is like, I think I like to love to like all Timer, like all of his movies, you know, except for Tenant, which I am looking right now. And I need to talk to Casey Malone. I need to talk to Leo Vader. Kleppit gave it three stars out of five. That's.

[Mike]

I guess I could tell you. I guess I could tell you who it is. If that many people. It's Simon from Rockstar is like trying, like pushing me to watch it. He's wrong and it's not okay. Yeah, it's okay. I like, I just haven't.

[Dan]

I'm looking at Grub's review on letterbox. He gave it three stars, which sure finds it's two stars too high box four or five. Five. And he says it's bullshit, but at least it's my kind of bullshit. All right, I can accept that. I can accept that.

[Mike]

All right, because like, I, I still mean, I think maybe Oppenheimer could challenge us. I still think Dunkirk is Nolan's quote unquote, like best movie because he's actually restraining himself. And I like that movie a lot of. But it's not the movie that I always want to go back and watch. I love rewatching the Batman movies. Even Dark Knight Rises, which every single time I watch him, like, this is so stupid in some parts. Fun though this is a terrible take, but it's still like the dude understands momentum and there's always gorgeous shit going on. And I love that he tries his absolute best. Like I. The fact that Odyssey was shot with such like, space age technology, but he's also trying to do as much of it analog as possible is pretty awesome, but those movies always stick with me. And I, I, I, He's. I'm not gonna say he's like one of my favorite directors, but like movies,

[Mary]

that's because they're made for you. Nolan makes films about the terrible feelings of a man and that is what he is known for. All of his films are like, ugh, it is so hard being a dude. And, and that's why they appeal to you guys.

[Dan]

I am like Batman.

[Mike]

The closest he got, the closest he got to like a fleshed out woman character was Jessica Chastain and Interstellar and even that. That movie became more about his experience though, than hers. She became, she became the elderly woman.

[Mary]

That's right. It's about the experience of a man emotionally dealing with the subject matter. That's Rachel.

[Mike]

Rachel gets blown up in Dark kn.

[Mary]

And didn't that make Batman feel things? Wasn't that hard.

[Dan]

Don't you feel bad for Batman?

[Mary]

I think about that every time I watch the next Nolan film. I go, I. I know a man is going to go through some real tough stuff and it's going to make him feel bad. And we're going to. We're going to really empathize with this man.

[Mike]

No, In Dunkirk, they saved a lot of women back in London.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

With everything.

[Dan]

And it was. Those guys got shot with bullets and everything. Heard. Think about the boys.

[Mary]

I think about them.

[Mike]

Boys movie.

[Mary]

I always think about the boys. I. Every time I go to the theater, I go, man, I really hope they tell a story about how a man feels.

[Mike]

Yeah. God. Oppenheimer and Barbie in that context are really.

[Dan]

Oh, wow.

[Mary]

I know.

[Dan]

Holy shit.

[Mike]

No, you're not wrong whatsoever. There's. There's a lot of Fridge wives in Nolan's movies.

[Mary]

Like, they're background characters for sure. And this movie is no exception. I think that it has some pretty sick lady moments. And I'm happy to say that some of them are, like, so memorable. I think there's like a. A scene she's not. I don't think she's like one of the famous actor scenes. She's like a. You know, they're hungry and there's a lady who needs to feed them. And that scene will stick with me for a while. There's some really good sequences. Who's to say? But I think. I think they. It's an iconic film. I think it's a very memorable film. And I think that every man who watches it is gonna be like, man, I really was wor about those men. And I'm so. I'm so glad that I saw that because I. I see myself in them, you know, how strong they were.

[Dan]

Sure.

[Mary]

How important they were.

[Dan]

Of course.

[Mike]

How hard their pecs were.

[Mary]

Oh, dude.

[Mike]

How big their sweaty hogs.

[Mary]

The. The musles in this film is crazy. Everybody's got an eight pack. It's.

[Mike]

It's Tom Holland hang Dong.

[Mary]

There's no dong. It is boobless. It's not.

[Mike]

Two stars is maximum.

[Mary]

I know.

[Dan]

Outside of Matt Damon, I don't even know who's in this.

[Mike]

A lot of Tom Holland, Robert Pattinson, Lupita Nango, Anne Hathaway. Is his wife back home? Zendaya, John Bernthal. Zendaya. Zendaya. Is she. Who is she?

[Mary]

She's a God.

[Mike]

Is she Athena? Did I butcher it? Or is Lupita is Lupita's Athena?

[Mary]

I get them mixed up, but Zendaya is A God. And Lupita is the one who. The face that launches a thousand chips.

[Mike]

She's like, oh, really?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Mike]

Okay, okay. Joan of Archaea is Athena.

[Mary]

Yes, that's right. Because Athena is the one that, like, dresses him up as a disguise and it's a fucking rag. There's more. There's, like, other famous people in it, I feel like.

[Mike]

But, sorry, Zendaya and then Lupita.

[Mary]

It's got a crazy cast and it's. And it is really well casted. I think anyone who criticizes the cast is crazy. It's very brilliantly casted. And everyone. Even, like, the ones where people were like, I don't know about this, they do a great job. Robert Pattinson is a fantastic, fantastic actor. And it's so fun to see him in this role because he's usually like. I don't know, he's just usually such a beloved character. So it's really fun watching him not being the main guy.

[Dan]

It's funny because I feel like my feelings on Pattinson are similar to how I felt about DiCaprio, where it's like when they first start him with Twilight and DiCaprio kind of like, I know he did stuff before Titanic, but that was his big thing. I just kind of assumed that, like, oh, okay, these are these, like, heartthrob types or whatever that are just, like, not great actors. And then it's afterwards and it's like, oh, wait, okay, the Cap Bros. One of my favorite actors. And then I haven't seen any Twilight thing, but I've. Every single thing I've seen Robert Pattinson in. I'm like, oh, this guy's awesome.

[Mary]

You've seen the Lighthouse, right? He's so.

[Dan]

No. Probably next. That's coming up. Yeah.

[Mary]

Because I should watch the Lighthouse.

[Dan]

Right? I was thinking about that today because it's like, man, I'm really liking the Northman a lot. So why I should check out the Lighthouse.

[Mary]

I think the Lighthouse was the one that put Robert Pattinson on the map for me, where I was like, oh, this guy is not a heartthrob. This guy is an actor.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

He does some stuff in that movie that I was like, this is bold.

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mike]

It's good. It's fun. I'm. I'm looking forward to seeing that. Daniel.

[Mary]

I'm excited to hear what you guys think.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Am I excited. We'd hear what everybody thinks with the world things. It's like, probably like one of the biggest releases of all time. I think it's opening box office was like, 120 million. Like, this is going to be one of those movies that everybody's. It's Nolan. It appeals to all men. This is going to be a big one. And it's true. They love it. They want to make it for the men, and they did.

[Dan]

Finally, we have movies for us.

[Mary]

Finally.

[Dan]

Boys are tired of all these lady movies.

[Mike]

I'm sick of all these women.

[Mary]

When will they make one about war?

[Mike]

They need to make one about war and men returning home after war and having a hard time to now. Like, it's funny because the King Arthur, the Clive Owen one. Did you ever see that with Keira Knightley, Clive Owens? I watched that movie a weird amount when growing up. Like, I just like that movie. That's about, like, certain versions of the King Arthur Camelot story are. The Odyssey. He's trying to get home after war.

[Mary]

It's so much of this.

[Mike]

Russell Crowe is trying to get home, and then he gets basically killed.

[Mary]

It's all the same. Dan, once you see this, what I think would be neat is maybe you could keep like, a little notes document or just like an audio tab of any time you're like. Like, oh, is that Odyssey or Iliad related? Because there's gonna be so many pieces in this movie where you'll be like, that's familiar. And I think they stole this. And that's because every movie we've ever seen has stolen from Iliad and Odyssey. Like, they've. They're all. They're all so borrowed.

[Dan]

Games, I bet, too.

[Mary]

Oh, 100%. This. This is a very familiar subject matter. But you're seeing. I mean, I don't know if these even the original, but you're seeing, like, the original, as far as back as we know, interpretation of. Of some of these stories. Story elements. And like, yeah, the general consensus is get home, good luck.

[Dan]

And.

[Mary]

And it's great. It's. It's a great journey. I think you guys will like it.

[Mike]

Enough about movies, though. Do you want to talk about video games?

[Dan]

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

[Mary]

I hope they're about men.

[Dan]

They don't make games about men.

[Mike]

There's no games about men. And being a father and how it

[Dan]

impacts God, my son.

[Mike]

All right, Mary. I finally played Teratech Legion.

[Mary]

Yay.

[Mike]

I was DMing you guys a bit about it.

[Dan]

You're.

[Mike]

You're both right. Mary, you were right initially. And Dan, and your support for it. That game's rad. I don't have too much new stuff to say. I will say, Dan, I think you had a concern where it's like, all right, well, if I'm stopping every X seconds to, like, add to my car, I feel like that'll hurt. No, the momentum you gain during something like Mega Bonk or Vampire Survivors or Deep Rock Survivors. But the game is structured as such where it's like they make building the car so involved.

[Dan]

It's half the game as it is.

[Mike]

That, like, it's not. It's not that that's taking away from the momentum of the game. It's like you are putting more thought into it. And it's not like you're not like engineering rockets. You're just stacking stuff in a way that's very Resident Evil 4 attache case. Kind of like making sure things fit. Thinking about the firing arc of different things. Like, okay, I want to give this as much360 room as possible so I'm not blocking it. So, like, I still don't even have the fourth character. I've just been playing. Like, I think I played three hours total and I'm like, already really hooked on it. I DM'd. You guys was like, I started, like, putting all the spikes on the side of my car so I could drift into crowds, and you asked me if I had. Apparently the fourth character is based around drifting.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Mike]

So I'm looking forward to getting them. But yeah, the game's awesome. I also just love the different, like, biomes you get into.

[Mary]

Like, it's mixes it up.

[Mike]

Crunchy. Uh, there's a lot of side stuff to pursue, but at first the steering felt a bit too floaty. But then I started, like, that's kind of on purpose because you get the grip stat, which you can improve, which from my understanding, makes your steering tighter.

[Dan]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

Um, but then when I'm trying to drift, I don't like that stat. So balancing all those different stats and learning how they work is super fun. It's also funny. It just remember, like, every time I make like a monstrosity of a car car, I hear cousin Eddie in Christmas vacation saying, like, ain't she a Butte Clark? Looking at this beat up rv.

[Mary]

Disgusting.

[Dan]

Super up. Asymmetric.

[Mary]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, you want it to be symmetrical, but you don't. Your. Your luck isn't there, so you keep getting the wrong things. And so your. Your back end is like, all awkward. I also love. I think it's a contender for most Dewey, because there's like, oh, yeah, no story. Like, it's not like, we gotta kill these aliens. They're coming after us. Like, you don't know like you could be a real piece of in this game. They don't explain why you're killing everyone. It doesn't.

[Dan]

Are these robots people we don't know animals.

[Mary]

Who gives a.

[Dan]

Kill them.

[Mike]

You know less story than Hell 2,

[Mary]

which is saying you're good. Yeah, it's.

[Dan]

It is.

[Mary]

The story is non existent.

[Dan]

I'm a truck driver and I'm going to put spikes on it.

[Mike]

He really is just a trucker. And it is. It's. I love that. That. I love that dude.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

That game's awesome. I played quite a bit. Bit on just my PC but I also played on Steam Deck. It's great on both.

[Dan]

It's tremendous. Like the way it does all the like putting the. The car together stuff with just a controller and it feels great. Like that could have been. If that felt. That would have ruined the experience. But like. And that question I had when Mary was describing it before, I played it about like, oh, does it break up the. The flow? No, no, no. Every single time I go to that screen I'm like, hell yeah. Okay, what am I going to do now? Like, I'm excited.

[Mary]

You can completely rebuild it doesn't punish you to say take everything off and put it back together again. Like it's just a. It's. It's strategy.

[Dan]

Yeah. Mary, I think you started like a whole domino effect thing when like. Because this game came out in like April or something and I hadn't heard anyone talk about it. You mentioned it. I started playing it. I go to Giant Bomb starting and we've got some Giant Bomb folks playing it. Then we got 50 codes from the developer that we gave out to fans and like it's like people are playing. I'm seeing other people in the industry start to pick up on this and stuff like that. So like I think you personally, like you telling us about it on this show has probably led to thousands of people playing this game that had not heard about it before for finally. Yes. Strong influence.

[Mike]

I like that game quite a bit. That's like my main game I'm playing now even though I only played three hours so far.

[Mary]

That's great.

[Mike]

Speaking of a newer, I believe a new game, Dent Attack.

[Mary]

You both driving? Yeah.

[Mike]

Is there an exclamation point on Dent Attack or not?

[Mary]

It is. There is. There is an exclamation point.

[Mike]

Dan had a typo. I'm gonna.

[Dan]

What?

[Mike]

Oh, I added it. This is the longest typo.

[Dan]

Oh my God. It's an exclamation point. I don't I don't type infamous. The style G attack. This was the longest embargo ever. I played this game, like, over a month ago. It feels like. So it's like I'm kind of like, good for.

[Mike]

Good for the devs getting out.

[Dan]

It's a good thing. But it's like. Yeah. When you got to, like, think back, like, oh, right. Okay.

[Mary]

That was like, did I like that? Yeah, I played it yesterday, so it's very fresh. But I'm curious.

[Mike]

Did.

[Dan]

Did you play Thumper? Mary Yes.

[Mary]

Yeah. Music game yeah.

[Dan]

To me, this was like, kind of like, like Thumper meets Tony Hawk meets, like, a Dreamcast game, you know, it's got all the style of Dreamcast game. It's kind of on that rail, like Thumper. There's a certain amount of kind of rhythm to everything and certainly timing. And then the Tony Hawk kind of like you're landing stuff into manuals like you're. You're a bus that's like grinding on a rail. You jump up in the air, you do a flip, you slam down, and you hold in up to, like, do a manual into, like. So you're, you know, putting combos together and stuff like that.

[Mary]

Tricks. Tricks is a huge part of it. You get bonuses for finding things in the world that you're meant to interact with. So. Oh, God. They're called something. There's usually like seven of them in a round, and you get bonus points for getting them.

[Dan]

One might be hands or.

[Mary]

Totally. One of them might be, like, there's an air balloon, and if you jump on the air balloon, that counts as, like, one of these, like, elite tricks. I think it's. I appreciate your general consensus. I would be nervous comparing it to Thumper only in the sense that I think. Think Thumper is, like, melodic and something that you would zen out to. And it's. It. It is just so extraordinary of the style, whereas this one, it feels cartoony and whimsical and silly. It's a completely different vibe aesthetically. Audio, even wise. They're kind of just like, that's crazy. Do it again.

[Mike]

I don't ssx. Tricky.

[Mary]

Yeah, I. I felt kind of like this is more youth kid style for me. When I was playing it, I was like, I feel like kids will really like having someone be like, try that trick again. You know? But I. I don't. Thumper was more like, I'm in the zone. This one was more silly and childlike to me.

[Dan]

Yeah. Thumper is demanding in a way that this is like, you can Kind of float through a level and die like 20 times on the side, same weird spot. And then like maybe you don't get a super ranking and get every objective or anything like that, but like you can beat most these levels fairly easily.

[Mary]

It's forgiving. It's also, it almost has a. There's just like such a weird whimsy to it where all of a sudden you'll be on. You'll be riding your bus and you'll land on a boat and now you're surfing on a boat and you're a Ferris wheel.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Or a Ferris wheel and you're. You're knocking over machines to get to the end of this Ferris wheel ride. It feels ridiculous and otherworldly and animated in this like childlike sense of wonder. It feels like a dream when you're playing it. Which I really liked. I liked when they broke out of the mold of you're a bus doing kick flips. And I liked when they were like, now you're surfing a sick wave. That was when I felt like I was actually alive in the game.

[Dan]

That, that's a good point because it's like, I do think it is stuck between like, okay, kind of wacky. Like, like I think of this game incredible crisis for PS1 where it is almost like a Warioware esque.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Very humorous game. One silly thing into another. And it's kind of stuck between that and like trying to be a demanding like trick based game game. It gives you almost too much where it's like there are times where it's like, like the whole first island is constant. Like okay, now here's how you wall ride and here's how you do this.

[Mary]

Here's 20 different things you need to learn. Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah. And then here's like they. You get. Here's how like you have to split off and do three different objectives here. And here's the. We do manuals and here's you jump and then here's how you slam down and like it is just throwing a lot at you. So it does feel like it's stuck between, like are we doing gimmick fun time, cartoony game. Yeah. Bus skating game or are we doing, you know, Tony Hawk Thumper, like trying to be like a more demanding skill based game and it's a bit stuck.

[Mary]

Stuck.

[Dan]

It is. I mean, but that's not to say it's not like I enjoyed it a lot. Like I, I think it's a really good game. But yeah. I don't, I don't know if it's going to be a thing where it's like, like a neon white or something where it's like I'm playing these levels over and over again trying to you know, get a better score or better time or something like that.

[Mary]

Do can you compare your scores to your friends online? Because I didn't see that when I was playing it.

[Dan]

I don't remember because I was playing pre release so I don't remember a leaderboard.

[Mary]

I didn't see your guys's scores. Like we're friends on Steam.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

So I never saw your guys scores when I was doing it. But it compares your time. Cuz these are time based levels plus your sick flips. Every time you do a kick flip or whatever that adds to your score plus those seven bonuses that I told you about. So it's like if you see the hot air balloon and you pop it or you like figure out this like secret. And there's secrets in every level which I think are really fun. If you do those, that all adds to your total score, you also get like a rating. I can't remember what they are, but you get a rating based on like whether they think you did. Okay, good, great. And then you get a final score that you can, I think stars. Yeah, it's 1, 2, 3 stars and then you, you get a score. But I, it's like who am I, who am I replaying this level for so that I can get the better score is my question.

[Dan]

It's one of those things where it's like, yeah, if you're like a game zone, quick person or something, I'm sure you could do some incredibly impressive stuff where you chain a combo the entire level and get every objective in one run. But like I think most people are going to be like, okay, that was fun. And then move on to the next level and like. And that's fine too, you know.

[Mary]

Do you, did you. How much did you play of it? I only. I started playing it yesterday on a plane and I will say it was a great plane game on my flight because for this two hour flight I was just doing kick flips and I was completely locked in and I really liked my two hours with it. This is a portable game game. How long is it? Did you, how far did you get?

[Dan]

I got into like I'm probably halfway or a little beyond that on the second island. It's like surprisingly like just looking at the map it looks like there's, you know, I don't know if there's four or five islands or Something and like each level like a, it's like a Mario World type thing where there's, you know, there's seven, eight levels here, you know, like some side things and like, oh, this one's like a race. This one is a score battle thing. This is an objective based thing. So there's a lot of variety here. There's just more, more game here than I think I expected from what I thought might have been more of a gimmick game.

[Mary]

You know, you can upgrade your bus. There's things you can do to alter your bus to make it like, I don't know, more reliable or faster, have more acceleration. There's things that you can do to aesthetically change your bus. I changed all my stickers to look like like octopus and it's. I have like this like underwater looking bus. I find it fun. If it's not obvious to listeners yet, this is, is, this is just like another worldly game where buses don't work like regular buses. This is, this is far beyond crazy. Taxi. This bus doesn't work on any level the way a bus should really work. And I don't know exactly why they have had it within the world of a bus because it's not operating like a bus. You are, you're not even hitting a to accelerate except for to literally start your bus. You hit go. Other than that, there's no acceleration. You're just, just, you're just grinding and kick. Flipping and moving your bus around. Jumping.

[Dan]

Yeah. Holding an R. And then. Yeah, like the mechanic that feels the best to me is like when you do the turn and you hold in lt.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Dan]

And then there's like a little meter that pops up and if you let go in the green, you get a boost coming out of the turn which like. Oh, that. It's almost like that feeling of like Mario Drift. Yep, that's it.

[Mary]

So 100. 100. And I think that is when the game is the best is like when it gives you little rewards for doing the turns properly. Sometimes you'll see be an element in the sky and I'll be like, oh, if I jump at the right time, I can grab that item that feels really good in order to do that. I think this game is going to be very addictive for a lot of people, especially people who want to collect them. All the got the people who like getting all the different items. I think this is going to be something that a lot of people enjoy and I also think it's accessible to kids because like we said, if you die, you they don't even restart the level. They go back 10 seconds and a little person goes, that's not gonna stop me.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And like, it's kind of like an anime character. And they just generously let you. I did know you probably noticed this, but the time does not go backwards. So if you get hurt.

[Dan]

Sure, sure.

[Mary]

You eat that time.

[Dan]

Yep.

[Mary]

That's your punishment. Is. Your time is not gonna be as good.

[Dan]

Yeah. But, yeah, overall fun. I'm enjoying it. I mean, it's not one. Like, I don't know if it's gonna be top 10 of the year for me, but it's. I'm having a good time. Time with it. If you. I don't know how much it is, but if you've seen on sale, you know, grab it. How much is it? I'm curious now.

[Mary]

I know. I want to check too. I.

[Dan]

This is, oh, 17.99. You know, that's. That's a good price for this. There's a lot of game here. Yeah, there's. There's a lot of game here. That's a.

[Mary]

Under. Under 20 bucks is like my new vibe. And all the games that I've played this. This round have all been light hitters for me. They've all been like, hey, this game, 4.99. That's a steal. Let's go snag that bad boy. So, yeah, for bargain games, this is a heck of a deal.

[Mike]

I have a game. Speaking of bargain games, this game is $13. It came out, I will say, in 2024. Did either of you play Throne Fall?

[Dan]

No.

[Mary]

I don't even know.

[Mike]

I found it. It's been in my wish list forever, and I finally pulled the trigger because it's the same publisher as Terror Attack Legion. So the best way I can describe it, say it's. It's one of those games that starts very chill and you think it's going to be very relaxing. And then it gets to be really intense, like, oh, there's way more game here than I thought it would be. So generally speaking, it is late. Base building meets light. Tower defense meets Vampire Survivors. If you look up the store page, I think it's gorgeous.

[Dan]

Yeah, I'm looking the looks fantastic.

[Mike]

Did you guys play Dorfromantic? That tile game? It looks romantic.

[Dan]

It looks like it.

[Mary]

It's like, simple in a beautiful way. Right. Like minimalist.

[Mike]

So it starts off and the tutorial and you go through a bunch of different biomes, but basically you're controlling this person. This. The king of a town. On a horse in this like kind of isometric, not top down, like isometric view in this like look it up. It looks like dwarf mantis kind of watercolored, cel shaded combination world. And there are waves wave defense. I should also mention tower defense. So there are enemies that are attacking your town as you're building it up. And you're just protecting the cast castle. You start off just building. Bless you. Building towers on specific plots, building walls around specific lines. And you're upgrading your barracks, your archers range, your farms, your. You know, you're managing your economy similar to real time strategy games. And your character is auto shooting most of the time. And it gets to the point where there's hordes similar to Vampire survivors or megabunk etc. But you're also managing different troops in a very simple way. It works well on controller, I will say it works.

[Mary]

Are you like an elite attacker? So you personally attack, but you also yell at people if you die. Is it over your king man?

[Mike]

Yeah. You start over at the beginning. I think it's 20. It goes up. I think it starts at your like 20 rounds. You're defending the castle as you're also improving it and building up the economy. But it starts off at just like enemy archers and swordsmen and spearmen are attacking you. But like by the biome I'm in Dan, you'll appreciate there are like wooden Kirov airship blimps attacking me.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

And your base is no longer just like a few farmhouses and mills and fields. And the castle, it's like six layers of walls with turrets and towers strewn throughout it. The be it starts off very meditative and kind of cozy game. And it now is at the point where it's actually an intense tower defense real time strategy game. It's gorgeous. It's an amazing Steam deck game. I will say the most frustration I've had with controls is you before you activate around you literally you hold a to say okay, send the enemy troops. Before that you could do some base building. You can arrange your troops and put them at diff because like at a certain point the enemy will be coming from like eight different spawns. So you could put okay, I. It shows you where what enemies are going to spawn there as well. So you could say okay, okay, knights are going to be spawned up here. So I'm going to put my spearman there to counter them. So you can just. You can snap them to you hold your character near you, do like a click and drag near them. And then you could just Tap a button, and they'll warp to the spot you want as long as the wave has not started. Once the wave starts, different units will move in real time at different speeds. Selecting all of them in certain units is not the most intuitive. It's intuitive. Doesn't always work, I would say, because I. Oh, I just accidentally painted a knight as well, in addition to these spearmen. That's the extent of my frustrations outside of this. Like, I was. We were just talking about, like, a good bargain. Like, it's 13. It's not new. It came out two years ago. But, like, extremely simple idea that they build upon in really fun ways. You go to really gorgeous different kinds of biomes. Like, not just artistically, but also, like, oh, this one has layers of cliffs, like. Like, terraces that I'm defending, like, Minus Turret and Lord of the Rings. Or this one has a lot of different winding pathways through the woods to

[Mary]

my village, which makes their biomes look like settlers of Catan. The menu.

[Mike]

Yeah, that's another good comparison. It's like, they play with the art in a cool way throughout each biome, but they also play with the actual mechanics of the defense in fun ways where it's like, all right, this one, the castle is very central and safe, but. But your mills and fields and farms are way out on the outskirts, which means they're the enemy. All they have to do is, like, hit the. The. The field once, and they've quote, unquote, burned it. So there's like, you're. You're. The fields don't cost a lot to establish, but they can also destroy them really quickly. And it's at that point. So, like, oh, maybe I stationed my troops to protect the mills, and then I'm kind of roving around and just going where I'm needed based on the. The mini map's great. It'll show. Okay. Okay. I'm losing a lot of people up here against this group, so I'm gonna go help out. And you do get some active abilities as well. You start off with a simple sword swing, and you're automatically shooting arrows the whole time. And later on, you get new weapons. Oh, I should also mention tons and tons of modifiers. Like, dizzying amount of modifiers where, oh, your. Your mills take you. They're more expensive to upgrade, but each time you upgrade them, they get all three on the tree instead of just one, which would be cheaper and faster, et cetera, stuff like that. But also, like, oh, this weapon will now do. Do AoE damage in a way. That makes it less like an arrow, more like a lightning bolt kind of thing. There are a ton of those and it's similar to Teratech Legion or Vampire Survivors. They have a really good UI showing you what you haven't unlocked yet. So like, I know what the carrots on a stick I'm chasing are at all times for the most part. But you get active abilities that keep you from getting too complacent. Like, I love Mega Bonk, but. But there are times when I'm on a flight and I'm playing magma. I'm kind of, I'm almost falling asleep because it's so passive.

[Dan]

It's running and jumping. Yeah.

[Mike]

And, and this game's great about like, oh, okay. So I get a sword attack that the, the less health that an enemy has when I attack it, the quicker the recharge my active thing will be. So you're kind of using it as this assassination like dagger in their back so you can do it quickly again as opposed to hitting someone. Full health health. Waiting for a much slower radial reload and then doing it. But you get a lot of stuff like that where they're like. It's like Gears. Active reload is just enough to keep you like engaged when it can be just a lot of third person shooting and cover shooting. Etc.

[Mary]

Would you compare it to Kingdom at all? Kingdom Two Crowns. You know how like you're a king in that and you set up your little thingies for waves attacks? No, it's on PC too.

[Mike]

Kingdom. I don't, I don't know it.

[Mary]

Let me see if I, I'll send it to you. But I think like that you're also like a king that's defending and. But if you die, it's over.

[Mike]

Yeah, I'd say so. That was side scrolling.

[Mary]

I loved that game.

[Mike]

Yeah. I mean, check this game again. It's 13. I think it's money well spent even if it's not like your favorite game ever. And also I, I. It's been a part of a bunch of sales this summer. That's also why I came across it. Um, like as of this recording. I think it's part of the secret sauce sale that ends Open sauce is

[Mary]

going on right now. So it'll be around when this, when this episode goes out. You'll have a couple days.

[Mike]

So it's 13 right now. But it might be, it might be less. It's just telling me I already own it. Oh yeah. Mary, there's a bundle with Throne falling. Kingdom Two Crowns. So apparently they're similar.

[Mary]

Well, well, well.

[Mike]

Yeah, it's great. Like, it's not new. It's not the most exciting thing. It's not going to be talked about in game of the year, but it could be. It maybe comes up in the best year that didn't come out this year for me. But outside of that, just like I think if anybody's looking for an affordable, super simple game that they then make very engagingly complex throughout the course of the game on Steam Deck. I think this is right up your alley.

[Dan]

I mean, just looking at the Steam page here, it's reminding me of when I said Teratek and it's like, ooh, I love the look of this. This looks really fun. Like, okay. I just. I missed it when it came out. I should check this out.

[Mike]

Yeah, I like it a lot. I It's. It's probably my playing game for the foreseeable future alongside Teratech Legion. Not as involved as Teratek, I will say. But again, by the. You'll get to biomes. You're like, oh my God. It's like blimps and siege towers and you gotta like use different troops and who do I upgrade? How do I spend my money? It's. It's. It's a rad game. Extremely well made. I I Mythrite's the publisher.

[Dan]

Really quick.

[Mike]

I just want to give a shout. Grizzly Games, they made a good game. They've done some other stuff. They did Islanders in 2019. I remember playing that again, just simple games done really well. And they expound upon the idea. Initial idea, really cool ways.

[Dan]

Nice.

[Mike]

Dan, you played Heave Ho 2 as well?

[Dan]

Yes.

[Mary]

Multiplayer without multiplayer.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

You.

[Dan]

Oh my. Cut out for a second there. What was that?

[Mary]

I said tell us more.

[Dan]

Wait a minute. It flagged out for like three seconds. My Internet went down and then I came back and Mike was laughing. And now it seems like Mary's lying.

[Mike]

She said tell us more. But she also told this really blue joke about someone you don't know.

[Dan]

I got it in quick. Okay. I'll have to listen to the.

[Mary]

I wouldn't get it.

[Dan]

Okay.

[Mike]

It was like a normal evo.

[Dan]

It's very fun. It's. If you play the first one, it is just. The concept is you're a little dude, dude. You got hands and arms. Left trigger grabs with your left hand, right trigger grabs with your right hand. It's a lot of swinging around and creating ropes with your friends and flinging each other and it's a lot of just laughing and farting. And there's a fart button and just getting from point A to point B for the most part, and then trying to figure out, like, how the. Are we getting around these spikes? How are we. Okay, this whole area is ice, so it's like. It is not that different. I mean, to be fair, we only played the first area, which is like the ice area area. We did go forward and try, like, a later level. And it seems like they do introduce some crazy mechanics later on that we haven't gotten to yet. But I would say the biggest changes or upgrades we've seen from the first one was there is a mechanic where it's like. Let's say the three of us were playing with Jake, and the three of us get to the end, and instead of, like, you know, some of these levels, it's like, how the. Would Jake ever get over here? One of us can pilot a drone and, like, so we can have like a little drone with our head on it, like, go over and we can, like, direct him, like, okay, grab onto the drone. And it's like a fun way to. To get a straggler to the. To the finish, basically. But then also, this, like, competitive multiplayer mode is fucking hilarious. We put a quick look up on Giant Bomb. Just a lot of just, you know, here's a survival mode, here's a race mode, Here's a mode where you get lightsaber.

[Mary]

Minimum amount of people you can play this with.

[Dan]

You know, we played with four online. I bet you could have fun with two. I don't even know if you can with one. I don't know what the fuck that

[Mary]

looks like, but I can confirm you cannot play it with one.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Dan]

That would be fucked up.

[Mary]

Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty sad, you guys.

[Mike]

Oh, she tr.

[Dan]

Oh, no.

[Mary]

I was trying to fling my own lonely ass around and I just quit.

[Dan]

Wait, it lets you get into a level?

[Mary]

I. I played like, I started playing. Yeah.

[Dan]

Oh, so maybe technically you could. Wait. Are you just bad at it? Are you bad and have no friends? Is that what we're. How do you throw.

[Mary]

How do you throw your own ass?

[Dan]

Why would it. Why would it let you go into the level if you can't do it?

[Mary]

Because it's probably like, get some friends. Like, you know,

[Mike]

that's really.

[Mary]

I think it's up that you played without me, because I was dying alone

[Dan]

on an island, people.

[Mary]

Oh, I saw you.

[Dan]

So many friends. We asked you to be on Mecca Chameleon on Friday, and you couldn't do that.

[Mary]

I'm booked and busy.

[Dan]

Oh, okay, well then pick a side here.

[Mary]

I'm both. I'm conflicted. Watch Barbie. My friends want to see me, but no one plays Heave Ho with yeah. Oh, yeah, because we moved this recording specifically for your schedule.

[Mike]

Christopher Nolan. Sexist.

[Mary]

I said we have to. We have to record at 10 in the morning.

[Mike]

I know, I know, I know. I appreciate it.

[Mary]

Shut the fuck up. You should be on my side. You are not an ally.

[Dan]

Yeah, they only serve wine at night.

[Mike]

Evo too. Sounds exactly like a cherry.

[Mary]

Where are we? Fighting. Fighting.

[Mike]

No.

[Mary]

You not today.

[Mike]

Are bad. I apply the Bechdel test to my everyday life. Okay?

[Mary]

That means leaving the room. Women can talk. Not about you.

[Mike]

Mary, you played Scale the Depths.

[Mary]

Yeah, I'm probably gonna burn through several smaller indie games that I played that came out. These are all on sale.

[Mike]

Jake, put the Mary's Indie Hour sting in.

[Mary]

That's right.

[Dan]

Play the music.

[Mary]

Mary's Bargain Bin Hole.

[Mike]

Cozy games and indie stuff. So many friends. Except for when they wanna pick you.

[Mary]

Deal with your trauma for a deal. This is Scale the Depths is a fishing game that creatures will come up to your boat and say, I'm hungry. You need to. You fish and it's just creature kitchen

[Mike]

on a boat, you gotta branch out,

[Mary]

treat the fish and then you feed the mythical creature. Some of them are mythical, some of them are real like eagles. And then they give you money and that upgrades your fishing equipment. The fishing in this game is hard to describe, but it's very simple. It's a string that has a. You have a certain amount of string with a lure on it that has a certain amount of strength. Strength. And all you have to do is dink the fish. If you dink the fish, you've injured it. If you dink it again, you'll probably kill it. The lower you go into the water, the stronger the fish. You will find meaning. You'll need to dink it a lot. When you run out of line, you immediately go back up to your boat and you have to cast again and bring your line back down there. That's why the upgrades are really important. Because at the beginning, your line isn't long enough for you to attack any creatures in the depth which are worth the most points and. And kind of the most fun to kill. So you. You want to upgrade your line almost immediately, plus your lure. You can upgrade your knife. Because the second half of the game is once you've. Once you've filled your bucket with fish, you have to descale them. You have to de worm them. Sometimes it's kind of gross. Some of the barnacles. And you have to smack the barnacles off. And you get scores for how good you are at cleaning up your fish and chopping them up. A perfect score gives you a star on your fish. That's worth more points. And then you feed it to the creatures. Thus, that is the game loop, I think, for people who like fishing games and like, I'm going to call this kind of mindless gaming where you turn off your brain and you're just like, I'm a fisherman and I love feeding eagles. And you just really slow your brain down. This one will cure what ails you. It is for people who are looking for a challenge or they're looking for strategy. This will bore you to tears. This is a chill game about feeding fish to animals and making them happy. And I think role playing as a fisherman, that's. That's kind of the scale. There's some fun things down there. Sometimes you find messages in a bottle with some lore. I didn't read it. Sometimes you find treasure boxes with stickers and stuff that you get to put on your boat. I think it's fun, but it's. This is a simple game done well that allows you to feel like you can enjoy being a fisherman in the sea. And I think it's also pretty cheap right now. This is a under $10 game.

[Dan]

You say lore and lure the same.

[Mary]

Damn it. Your lore. And then there are animals from law you're going for. Damn it.

[Mike]

Laura lure. Laura lure. Lure.

[Mary]

I will burn through the other two if that's cool, because these are. These are short.

[Mike]

Go, go, cat. Oh, you. That's your typo.

[Mary]

No, it's not. You can't read. Read it again. Don't you start with me. Co. Thank you, Dan.

[Mike]

Yeah, but you got the period at the end.

[Mary]

You're an ally.

[Dan]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Mike]

All right.

[Dan]

What's cat.

[Mike]

What's catmail company?

[Mary]

Cat mail is a cozy cat post office. You are yourself a cat, although it's first person, so you never really see yourself as a cat. So I don't know why they do. But all your. No, there's no whiskers. It's through your eyes.

[Mike]

Is it black and white?

[Mary]

And when you. No, it's color. It's in color.

[Dan]

How do you know your cat?

[Mary]

Cat? Because all of the creatures in this game are cats. So all of your.

[Mike]

All the.

[Mary]

The patrons, the people who come in to either collect their mail or drop off their mail, they're all cats. And they all have real fun names like. Like Whiskers Mix Snuggle Muffins or, like, you know, Rumple Tail Feather. That wouldn't make sense, but they have ones that are, like furry MC Scratchums, and they're really cute. And they'll always say they'll come to your office, the post office. You get a ton of mail. You have to organize it. It's your job to organize your own mail and put it in the right spots. Mail can come in and mail can come out. It'll make you go a little crazy. I was thinking of that episode it's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, where I was like, I keep getting this mail from Pepe Sylvia.

[Mike]

I don't know.

[Mary]

I don't know where Pepe Sylvia is. I. I kept getting mail, and I was like, I don't know where this goes. I don't know where it's supposed to be. But the important thing and the reason I think they can call this a cozy game is that there's no time limit limit. So you don't need to be stressed when someone goes, I'm here to pick up a piece of mail from Tatum Kristofsky. And it's heavy. And so you go back into all of your packages, and you look for mail that says Tatum K. And it needs to have the heavy symbol on it. And if you do that, you're returning. You're giving that person the mail. Then they'll drop off mail that has. There's all these different, like, little toys that you get to play play with. One is a scanner. You scan it. It lets you know if the mail is heavy, that needs a heavy sticker or if it's fragile, which means it needs a fragile sticker. Some. You open up new areas of your mail. I opened up one that's. It's a fridge. And so they'll be like, hey, this contains stuff that goes bad that needs to go in the fridge. So all these different stickers, you need to weigh it. You need to put the right amount of postage on it. And then you need to put the thing on it of the island that it goes to. It gets complicated.

[Mike]

Did.

[Mary]

I actually was not super relaxed playing this because I was going through all this mail because I was trying to find mail of some cat, and I couldn't figure it out. And I stumbled across a package that I had had for three days that was meant to go in the fridge, and it was not in the fridge, y'. All. And so I put it in the fridge. But that fish had gone bad. That did not feel good. This game is for organizers. This is for people who like going sorting through mail and junk and. And having like role playing as if you have a job. At night, a captain of a ship comes to collect the mail that's meant to go to different islands. And that's a Tetris game. That's my favorite part. There's a very finite amount of space on this boat. You have to get as many packages on it as you humanly can. And to do it perfectly, you need to Tetris the packages in a very particular way so that you can min max the space. That feels fucking good. And I like that. I don't know if I love being inundated with packages that literally don't have a home. I'm running out of space. Space. My post office is out of this mind. People need to stop shipping things.

[Dan]

I'm looking at this right now and I think next time my dad comes here, I do want to make him play this. As someone who worked at the post office and half of his day, every day was organizing mail. And I guarantee his reaction playing is going to be like, this isn't what it's like at all.

[Mike]

You're not. You're not a cat.

[Dan]

Yeah. There's not any cats there. There's no boat.

[Mary]

It's fun. I actually played this for hours and got really into it. Oh, it's also multiplayer. I didn't play it as multiplayer, but if I played it again, what I'd really like is for you guys to also be cats in cat mail co and for us to play it together.

[Mike]

That way we can check if you actually are a cat.

[Mary]

Yeah. And if I have friends.

[Dan]

That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike]

There's like a thought experiment about this somewhere that I remind.

[Dan]

No. Sounds like to me,

[Mike]

Mary. What? Tilted Golf.

[Mary]

Tilted Golf is the last one. Tilted Golf is a also smaller game that I suspect is.

[Dan]

Oh, my God. It's the Breath of the wild minigame.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

It is the breath of the wild mini game. It's used. I. You have to play this on a steam deck. This is a. I would not recommend playing this on anything else. It is a gyroscopic where you don't hit the ball. You tilt your. Yes, sorry. Mobile hand. Thank you. Oh, my God. Mobile device. Handheld device where you use the gyroscopic to move the ball into the hole. It is time based, which I like because instinctively you'll try and get the ball in the hole really fast and they get Pretty complicated. But some of the levels don't have edges, so the ball will fall off the edge of the world if you're not careful. It's very simple. This is not a complicated game. This is a game that makes you feel fun and competitive and makes you want to try and get the lowest possible times to get Ball in the hole. Ball in the hole. This game should have been called Ball in the Hole. And you just tilt. Tilt the device to get it there. That's it. It's a very simple pitch. This game is probably not a lot of money. It's 490.

[Dan]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Mary]

This is a simple game that if you like the gyroscopic golf, this will burn two hours of your life. No problem.

[Mike]

Sorry. There's DLC coming out soonish.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Mike]

All right.

[Mary]

Tilted Golf.

[Mike]

That's the end of Mary's Indy happy hour. Dan, you mentioned Retro achievements. You asked if we knew what that was. We said no. So in.

[Dan]

Okay. This is. I mean, you know, I play a lot of old games all the time and you know, you run out of. I like playing old games a lot. Yeah.

[Mary]

You are spicy today, Mike.

[Dan]

What? He's drunk.

[Mary]

Yeah, you said it so authentically.

[Mike]

Good for you. Tell us about these old games.

[Dan]

So, you know, I played these old games a million times, even just the normal way. And then I've always known of the existence of Retro achievements, which is exactly what it sounds like. It is a thing that you can attach to your emulators, retroarch, whatever you use to play your old games. And it adds like, there's a huge robust community that adds like all these old games, obscure old games, games, the whole, you know, kind of a point system. And you have an overall point like on the website and your account you have like, it's just like a Xbox Gamer score basically. And it's just really fun for me because like, this is all part of my, like I've just been going nuts with the Steam machine for like a month now. And it's just my all purpose retro box as well as new stuff. But all the retro stuff, like I'm now playing old games again, like I always do, but I'm playing it in ways that I haven't played them before. And it's really like giving new life to a lot of old games for me. Like for instance, Puzzle Fighter.

[Mary]

Fighter.

[Dan]

That is a game that Bonk and I have played a billion. I've played hundreds of hours of Puzzle Fighter. Did not know that the PlayStation version had these like, kind of like These puzzle stars that you could earn. Each character has, like, six different challenges you can do to unlock stuff in the PlayStation version. And I learned that by opening up this game that I love and then looking at the achievements and being like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing. And so it's like. It's giving me these different ways to, like, okay, beat a level, beat an opponent without ever rotating a block. It's like, oh, that's fun. Fun. Like, these games that I know all the mechanics very deeply, and it's okay. Here's a fun new way to play it. Mario 3. You know, it's like I beat world one one without ever letting go of the right button on the D pads. That's cool. Okay. I beat this level 500 times. I've never done it that way. Mario 1, do a pacifist run of World 1 where you don't hurt any Goombas and you don't get a fire flower. You know, it's like that type of thing.

[Mary]

Who makes these. The community.

[Dan]

The community.

[Mary]

Just like another nerd.

[Dan]

Yeah. I mean, it's. The whole retro community is insane. Like, they are. They go so deep on all this stuff. And I. I love tinkering with all these devices and st. And like, the Steam Machine is like, I'm just spending so much time trying to make it, like, my ultimate retro box, that I am, like, this is the first time I am, like, I'm actually going to do retro achievements. I've really been like, every night before I go to bed, it's like, I'll try to get a couple. I'll open up, you know, to pick an old game I like twist the metal 2. And it's like, okay, here's a. Here's a thing. Here's a fun way I can try to beat the Los Angeles level or something and get a quick retro achievement. So it's. It's breathing a lot of new life into a thing I already was doing and loving. It's just making it feel fresh. It's great.

[Mary]

Now you have a goal.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah. And it's like, one that, like, there's never gonna be an end to this. There's a million retro games. I love playing old favorites. I love trying new ones. And now there's, like, a fun extra layer to it, you know?

[Mike]

That sounds rad. I. Looking back at the 360 error, I was initially resistant to achievements. I was like, oh, I see what they're doing. And then I was like, I'm thinking way too much. About this and less about just enjoying the game. However, as time went on between trophies and achievements, I do appreciate how you kind of have it a journal of what you've done in a game throughout its runtime, which is. Which is nice because. And it's also just that second layer of, like, all right, I have 100% of this. According to, like, yes, the game, but the publisher or the developer, there's still something else I could be doing that I like to say. I really completed this and that's how

[Dan]

I've done, like, PlayStation trophies and stuff for the last few years. Is like Astrobot. I wait for a game that I really love and I don't, and I'm not done playing it yet. And it's like, I beat every level. I've done everything I can do, like you said, Mike, but then it's like, oh, but then there's this thing and this thing, these fun little bonuses I can get. So it's just a way of extending the life of games you already love.

[Mary]

So are you going to give a challenge to someone else, considering you know these games really well? Can you upload your own and, like, can you do it this way?

[Mike]

Tyson?

[Dan]

It's not really like that. It's like they're. They're baked in. So if you get. It's like retrochrivens.org and it's like, I don't know who makes the sets. Like, I'm sure if I wanted to, I could.

[Mary]

Like, I think it'd be fun for you to add one. One that you think is challenging for you.

[Dan]

But most games already have it. Like, most games already have a full set. So it's like. And it's retro, so it's not like there's a bunch of new retro games coming out. So there's the occasional, like, really deep cut game. Like the game I just beat for Blight Club, that doesn't have a set. So.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Why am I blanking on the. The fighting game we play on your cabinet?

[Dan]

Oh, the Al Foxes. I bet you anything. Oh, I bet it does. I'm sure. The Outpost.

[Mike]

Kill someone. Kill someone with the cannon, which you did to me when I was playing with you.

[Dan]

Now I'm going to have to get some retro chims. Yep. There are 21 retro achievements worth 250 points. They. They do have them open.

[Mike]

Is there one about the cannon that you can see at a glance?

[Dan]

There's one. There's one called He's Got a Gun and it's clear as dweeb only.

[Mike]

Yeah. As a dweeb main. I love that.

[Dan]

Yeah. Kill Betty do in 90 seconds. Get a timeout. Throw dweeb off the plane. Is one.

[Mike]

I've been. I've been meaning to add, quote, unquote, dweeb main to my Instagram bio. I might.

[Mary]

Our Christmas festivities are sorted. It looks like we're going to have to get through all of these during our game of the year deliberations this year.

[Dan]

It's so funny too. Like, I'm looking at recent players of the out foxies and it's like, oh, yeah. Evil Murray 2 hours ago. Got a Bernard White versus Dweeb achievement.

[Mike]

I think I'm starting to like this guy.

[Dan]

Yeah, that's awesome. It's very cool. It's very. For me. It really works for me. And then another quick thing just with the Steam Machine is Clone Hero. Are you familiar with that? It is just another community thing where it's like. It's a way to play Guitar Hero on modern stuff, like modern computer.

[Mary]

So basically, I saw you posting about this on Instagram because you're playing Guitar Hero again, and I was like, why are you back there?

[Dan]

Well, because it's, you know, they got the PDP Rift Master. Well, I mean, it's like everyone has very fond memories of that, and it just kind of went away for the most part. And so now with the Steam Machine, just kind of like tinkering around with all this stuff that you can do with it, it's like, all right, I do so much retro stuff and like, Guitar Hero is one that you don't hear about as much because it's like, not as successful. You need a guitar. But the. The Riffmaster, enough people bought that and people love those games. So there's a thriving community of people, people charting songs. So it's like you can get a program where you type in like, oh, here's every Led Zeppelin song. You know, stuff that was never in. And they have. The community has charted them.

[Mary]

But you can also download all under Underground because they don't have the rights to these songs. I assume.

[Dan]

I own the album, so I'm probably good.

[Mike]

No, they got. They got in touch with. With Mick Jagger.

[Dan]

Yeah. Yeah. Robert Plant's been charting these in Clone Hero. Yeah. But yeah, I do.

[Mary]

With so much music licensing, I like stuff like this and I'm like, how do they do it unless they just stole it?

[Dan]

Absolutely underground. Yeah. So. But it's thriving. Like, there's these like, zip files and stuff where it's like, here's all of the actual charts and everything from every Guitar Hero and every rock band. And so you can get all those on one. I load up Clone Hero and here's the set list with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of songs of the official ones from Guitar Hero. And then there's like oh, the entire Nirvana discography over here that I've gotten. People have charted out meticulously and done different, you know, difficulty levels and stuff like that. So just, I mean my brother in law's been. Thank you, scientist. Like that is. They have like tons of tracks on there. So it's just insane that like that wrestling promo I was playing on Instagram, there's like gimmick ones like that. There's video game music, Castlevania tracks you can play.

[Mary]

You know you get a score.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Can you compare your score to your friends?

[Dan]

I don't know. I think you can. I think there is a leaderboard aspect. Yeah. I've just been kind of tinkering around.

[Mary]

I feel like I'm a broken record with this. But usually if I'm like playing a game where there's a score, I want to be like, well, did I beat Grob?

[Dan]

Leaderboard stuff.

[Mike]

I, I When you beat dan@miss pac man all the time.

[Mary]

I think about it all the time. I don't think there's any think about hitting him.

[Dan]

There's no record there.

[Mary]

I took a photo of him.

[Dan]

Lost the time. Yeah. It looks like there's some semblance of leaderboards here. Yeah. CH. Leaderboards. Yeah. Yep.

[Mary]

I think that's neat. I think that makes it really fun to be able to play like a, a childhood beloved song or just like a song that you love so much now. Now and try and master it and then compare your score to others. That's great.

[Dan]

And it's just one more step towards what I'm going with. The Steam machine where it's like this is the ultimate box one HDMI in with every old game I've ever wanted to play and way more. All new games and then also like Guitar Hero and stuff. Like weird stuff you can do with peripheral time learning like Linux shit and stuff. Thanks to this. It's a really fucking cool machine.

[Mike]

Cool. Both sound like cool community. What's the word I'm looking for? Community fueled projects.

[Dan]

Yeah, totally.

[Mike]

Last thing I'll say, I did play David Divers DLC a bit. I've not played a ton to go fully into it. I do appreciate Mary. I will say they do. The wording is confusing. You do not need to finish the first game before you play the dlc. What I thought he did. Unless they changed it since you talked about it. You do not. It just heavily recommends like maybe there's a pop up that sounded like you said you had to but I played it with without finishing the base game.

[Mary]

Oh, interesting. I wonder if they changed it because when I looked it up it said yes, you need to roll credits.

[Mike]

Oh, you need to roll credits. I do like that. Like the Stardew Valley elements.

[Mary]

It's not just that's great jumping from

[Mike]

location to location like diving to the sushi to the gun thing. You're actually they've got the glue of like trying to impress the different townspeople a la Stardew Valley. I've only played like two hours of it or three hours. I don't know how long I played. I'm going to play way more. I'll talk about it more in the next one because I do introduce to keep playing this as well outside of Teratech Legion Throne Fall this is a really good I'm kind of just going between these three for Steam Deck which has been really fun.

[Mary]

Interesting. That's. I'm glad you're playing it. I'm very confused by this. I feel like when you do a quick search everybody says you have to play the game main game.

[Mike]

Unless I rolled credits without knowing about it or without remembering that I did.

[Mary]

You don't know if you finished the main game.

[Mike]

I played a lot of the main game. I didn't think I did. Maybe it's just because I thought there was more to do, but it's, I don't know. I let me.

[Mary]

Maybe I'm wrong. That's great.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Either way it's freaking great because I I was thinking about it and I didn't love the end of Dave the Diver and so being able to play

[Mike]

this negative memories about my later hours in that game. So maybe I did play more than I thought. But either way, if you, if you can play the jungle DLC right now, go play it. It's. It's rad. They added that.

[Dan]

Dude.

[Mary]

If I spent eight hours finishing day of the diver and I didn't have to that pisses me off.

[Mike]

I I, I remember seeing the way they worded. I was like I don't think Mary needed to do that but it's possible. I oh Mary, you do need to

[Dan]

pay for it twice. Don't for I hope you did that.

[Mary]

Like that's worse than kishing it. Spending eight hours playing a game that I don't Want to finish to get

[Mike]

to DLC is worse now because the. The search results are inconsistent. I need people listeners to.

[Mary]

To.

[Mike]

If you've beaten the game, go check it out or if you haven't beaten the game, go see if you could play it because that. Now I want to know if Mary did quote, unquote, waste eight hours, I'll

[Mary]

be so I'll be frustrated. I did not love the end of that game and I. And I was like ready to move the fuck on. But I. I do think the DLC is fun and worth playing and that was my main feedback was I think the DLC is great, but it's not worth beating the game over. Like that's generally how I felt. So damn it, I'll play.

[Mike]

I'll talk more about that next episode because I. I haven't played enough to get a firm grasp of everything. But that's the nature of that game. You start getting crazier and crazier with the activities which. Yeah, that, that is still shaking those

[Mary]

trees, getting the coconuts, getting the little. It's like more dry land stuff. Yeah.

[Mike]

Jungle diving reminds me of the. The action RPG aspect of Cult of the Lamb. Not mechanically. The fact that you're like delving into this maze of pathways, etc. All right.

[Mary]

Believable. If that's the case, this counts as my blight club.

[Mike]

All right. You guys want to talk about emails?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Okay. As always, you can write into firescapecastmail.com get those coffers overflowing. Get our inbox full of questions. We got a few here. Today we're going to read one from

[Mary]

Melbourne, one from People don't say coffers enough.

[Mike]

I know one from Toledo. But yeah, get some questions in or comments, corrections, concerns. They're all welcome. Mary, do you want to read this first one from Wasi? Sure.

[Mary]

Hey, escapees, love the pod have been a day one listener. Last pod. Mary was talking about Dave the diver and we talked about this time too. And it got me thinking. Every time I play a new game which is generally on release, I min max and play the out of it to trying. Trying to get the platinum. And then by the time a DLC is released, I've already moved on and I've played other games and have never gone back to the old game no matter how much I loved it. I always worry that I'm going to forget the controls and the story and pretty much everything from the game. So probably psych myself out. I probably play one tenth of the amount of games that you Guys do my. My question is, how do you re. Engage with an old game? You're not feeling totally lost after you go back to it after some time. Am I overthinking it? Cheers. Here's Wasi from Melbourne of avid barbecue Shapes eater better than Chicken crimpy. Oi, oi. Any Aussie will tell you that. I. I don't know if I. I think sometimes barbecue is just too sweet for me. And I'm not a sweet snack person. I'm a salty, savory snack person. This might be a personal prep.

[Dan]

I guess I never thought about barbecue being sweet, but you're not safer.

[Mike]

Mesquite definitely has some sweetness to it. Okay stuff.

[Dan]

I mean, whatever it is, I like it.

[Mary]

Maybe I need to sauce definitely like brown sugar. I. I will accept this and because you are truly from the land down on earth, I feel like you get more sway than I do in this. But I'm allowed to decide my own favorite snacks and Chicken Crimpy is my favorite. So, you know, sorry.

[Mike]

As far as the question goes, I have this problem often because there are not percentage wise of games I've actually finished in the last two years that I started is very low. Just because I try so many things on Steam and for my day job. Everything I'm playing I'm finishing for the most part. And obviously we're like, we're talking extensively about Pragmata. I'm finishing it because, like, I mean that game's easy to finish, but there are other games. Like, I still have not done nearly everything I could in Elden Ring or in certain Dark Souls or some side stuff.

[Mary]

I still feel like going back to Dark Souls would be pretty brutal because

[Mike]

like you're building up a muscle memory from the tutorial in those games and trying to, you know, like you're ingraining it starting from. Not from square one, but starting from going back to the game after like a year away and relearning the timing and everything is one thing, but there's also little things you're gaining along the way in your character build that are nuanced and like, oh, this helps against these enemies. Like, I usually just start over because I don't feel like I have the training to get there. Like I did that with Ghost of Yote. I didn't finish it when it first came out. Love that game. Just had to move on to other stuff. And then before game of the year, I'm like, I'm just gonna restart this. That game especially because like to learn each weapon you're literally going through, like several quote unquote, weeks of training to learn it from the master. I was like, I feel like I need to really start over because there's a lot of stances and time gaming and little equipment things that I probably forgot about.

[Dan]

I think it really depends on the game, though. Like, Elden Ring is a great example because, like, that's one, like, when Erdtree came out where it's like. I think a lot of people loaded up their old characters like, God, what was I even. Okay, what am I battle mage here? What are my spells? I don't really know what this guy's deal is. But then there are things where it's like, you know, for instance, I was thinking about how I don't engage with DLC most time, even with games that I love, like Requiem, you know, Resident Evil, Requiem, Easily one of my, like, favorite games of the year. Year. They did some, like, DLC not that long ago that Leon Must Die, Roguelite something or other mode. And like, I adore that game. And with that, it's just like, you know, we have barely enough time to like, just kind of play all the new releases as they come out. So my barrier is not worrying about, like, with games like that, like, oh, am I gonna remember how to play this? Or anything. It's more just like, you know, like, is this something I need to go back to? Is this important enough or anything? Like, Erdtree is something. Something that is a huge addition and you want to go back to. But it's also one practically a new game, basically.

[Mary]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan]

And the mechanics are so complicated, or not complicated, but they're more involved to the point where it's like, that would be harder to go back to with a character in progress. Whereas, like Requiem, I could pick that up, start playing immediately. But that DLC just kind of seemed like maybe a skippable thing, you know, so it's really a case by case basis.

[Mary]

Wasi. It's kind of the consensus generally is that you're not overthinking it. It's really hard to go back to a game that you have, in my opinion, you finish. It reminds me of back to a book that I've. I've read three quarters of. It's like, now I just gotta start over. I find it awkward to go back to a game. I've tried to pick up Hollow Knight Silksong several times in my current play. It's very far in. I'm in a very difficult spot. I'm fucking miserable. I would rather restart that game than start it, like 90% where I'm at right now and just be, like, completely obliterated. I find that kind of brutal. I also tried to go back to blueprints the other day, and it was kind of the same thing where I was like, I've already played. I've. I've discovered so much of the whimsy of this world. I'm at that part where I. I think I'm trying to. There's a certain area where you need to get the tunnels so that the airflow goes a certain way. And I was like, I don't want to deal with all this. I already felt all the vibes that I wanted from blueprints. I don't think you could catch me replaying blueprints from scratch, like, or, sorry, mid game again. I would have to play it from scratch and I'd have to be in the zone to play it from scratch. I actually think your instincts are spot on. You play a game, enjoy it. When you're done with it, if you feel the nostalgic itch, go back to it. But ultimately, like, it's over, it's over, move on.

[Mike]

No, I don't think. I also don't think you're overthinking it because, I mean, for my consulting, we work with a lot of studios and like, like, we, more than anything, we talk with them about onboarding. They think a lot about it. They put a lot of time into easing people into different mechanics and making sure they stack in intuitive ways. Most of the developers are not like, how do we design this if the player lapses for six months and needs to come back in? They're not thinking that. They're like, how do we ease them in if they've already been playing for 12 hours since release? Like, vast majority of games these days are played in the first two weeks after release. So they're not thinking about this unique situation. Situation. Not that they're not thinking about it, but it's not a priority. So. And I don't think that's like saying too much. I'm not like, putting any of the people I work with on blast. Like, that's just not how they think. But, like, Day of the Diver was easy enough just because that game has already got that warioware structure of, like, doing a bunch of different things where it's like, I'm still learning those mechanics and they're simple mechanics. But also, like, a lot of design developers design their games to be a certain amount, level of difficulty Here based on what you've been doing the previous few hours. So like, I just feel like most games are not designed to be able to jump back in. Even Balatro, which is simple mechanically. Like, there's a lot of cards I need to really ingrain, like what these jokers do. Metroidvanias, I think is the worst genre to try to jump back into because you have the mini map, but you don't have that mental map that you've been building and knowing exactly what all these dead ends are and where you need to go. So those are tough. Thank you, Wasi. Dan, do you want to do this one from David from your neck of the woods?

[Dan]

What? Toledo.

[Mike]

Your original neck of the woods. Toledo isn't Toledo is Toledo not Kansas.

[Dan]

Are you thinking Topeka?

[Mike]

I'm thinking of Topeka. Toledo's Ohio.

[Mary]

Yeah, that's where I'm from.

[Mike]

I've been to Topeka.

[Mary]

Not even. But

[Dan]

you fucked that right up.

[Mary]

Classic Dan from Toledo.

[Mike]

Classic Dan from Ohio. Do you want to read this one from David?

[Dan]

Howdy, escapees. I'm finishing up a two week stay in Italy as part of an archaeological dig my now fiance took me on. After Mike's frequent wine talks, I was excited to try the different types this area is famous for. Okay, I know David, I'm not mocking you. I'm going to do this in a mic voice. After tasting at least 15 different local wines, including two separate tastings of Montalcino Brunello's, I can firmly say that while I respect the complexities, my sweet tooth still prefers the alcoholic grape juice of a good reggae red. My question is.

[Mary]

Sounds just like Mike.

[Dan]

My question is, what is something you've had the best best of but still prefer the cheap version of. Thanks for all you do, David.

[Mike]

Toledo, like separate from all of this, like that is actually a really good Cartman once.

[Dan]

I've never tried to do a Cartman voice. Including now the intonation at the end,

[Mike]

the curl at the end of the sentence. I thought I did a good Cartman. Yours way better.

[Dan]

Well, I was not. I'm not kidding.

[Mike]

That was.

[Dan]

I was trying to do you.

[Mike]

I know, but I'm saying you could do a kick ass car if you

[Dan]

want to on purpose. Learning stuff.

[Mike]

What is something you had the best of but still prefer the cheap version of? That's a good question.

[Dan]

I. I got one. Because ye. Around here we try to. Like I'm always talking about the burgers around here and like not just like the juicy Lucy, like there's just great burgers everywhere. And there's this new place that just opened up. It's called Lay Burger 4304 and had great reviews and stuff. I saw it in the paper and it's like, we went there and it's like, you know, all the burgers. I'm looking at the ingredients for this, the La Royale, and it's One Ear Crew, Bouf Fograv, Cooper's Fromage, American black truffle aioli and pickles. And it's like, it's all like kind of overthinking thought stuff, you know, and

[Mary]

it's like, you don't need that in a burger.

[Mike]

Venting the wheel.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Dan]

And it's like it has good reviews. I know it's. It's good, it's well made stuff. But like Bonk and I both had that and like, man, I would just really prefer Lion's Tap. That place that we go to when, when you guys come in, it's like. And that is just like a basic ass burger on a paper plate at, you know, on the side of the road in Minnesota is a million times better than this like, kind of fancy burger place.

[Mary]

The people's meal of a burger is better affordable. It's better with like whatever you can scrounge up. American cheese is great on a fucking burger. You don't need it. Like, I have preferred American cheese over cheddar on burgers for years because it's meltier. It's give you. Gives you more of that like goo that you are looking for. Smash burgers are amazing. And they're so you can make them at home for like next to. I make my own smash burgers. They're so cheap. They're so good. 100%. You just don't need it. I would not go to a fancy place and buy a $30 burger that feels like a waste of. Of time and energy.

[Mike]

This is not the exact same thing. This is sort of different. I love coffee. I love good coffee. I care a lot about how my coffee tastes. But similar to how I'm not averse to like shotgunning a Bud Light. If I'm on a road trip and I'm driving, I don't think it's truly a road trip unless I'm buying like shitty Cumberland Farms gas station coffee. It's not good, but it's still. I don't want like my local cappuccino to. I don't want that before I'm getting in the car to drive. I to want like jet fuel. Way overcooked. I Want it to taste like. Like diners. Same thing. I don't want really, really good coffee at diners. I want, like, the lowest common denominator thing, or else I'm not really having a diner experience. I don't prefer it in the most contexts, but, like, in certain ones, I'm like, I'm taking the shitty thing here because otherwise I feel like I'm being way too bougie.

[Dan]

I think there's.

[Mary]

I think there's, like, a lot of examples of it where the cheap thing is also a party of its. Its benefit. Loaded fries. I want them moderately priced, or they don't taste as good, even if they're delicious. If they're $20, that pisses me off. Loaded fries should be somewhere between, like, seven to $15, like, max. After that, it's like, what are we doing here? It's fries, cheese, some bacon, some green onion, drizzle some sauce on it and be done with it. Like. And some of that is just, like, the bedrock of. There is a price for a good meal that I am willing to pay. There is always a point with, no matter how good the meal is, if it was. If I feel like it was overpriced now, I don't think it tastes as good. It bums me out to eat something that I feel like I paid too much money for. So I'm always looking for a good bar in sf. I will always remember that it was impossible to go out to eat in San Francisco for less than. Than 25, $30. It's so freaking expensive there. I found a place that had a deal on Wednesday, Wednesdays for chicken wings, and you could get 12 wings. This strip club had the best deals on wings, and they were so good.

[Mike]

Gold Club.

[Dan]

It was amazing.

[Mike]

Joking. That's, dude.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I prefer the wings.

[Mary]

And the boobs were so good. And I could get out of there. I could get out of the shift. 20 bucks, I could get out of there. I would have charged, though.

[Dan]

We know.

[Mike]

We know someone who used to go for lunch during a work day.

[Dan]

Because I know who you're talking about.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Dan]

Drew Scanlan. You scan for the.

[Mary]

For the wings. For the wings. He would always say, it's just such a good deal.

[Mike]

Last one. When I'm getting, like, legit barbecue down south, if they give me, like, fucking focaccia bread on the plate, I'm like, I'm leaving immediately. I need white wonder bread, like, shitty white bread to mop it up. If you're giving me dough, I'm like, nope. I'M frisbeeing the bread back into the kitchen and then I'm slap it up. But anyway, good question. Thank you.

[Mary]

Yeah, thank you, guys.

[Mike]

David from Topeka.

[Dan]

All right, Toledo.

[Mike]

Sure.

[Dan]

I know. Oh, I see.

[Mike]

That's our show.

[Mary]

David from Topeka.

[Mike]

David from Topeka. Kwasi from Mossy. It was a good weekend recording Mary. What do you have going on before our next episode?

[Mary]

Just streaming on Mondays as usual. Check it out. I usually do go live on Mondays after work and I've been playing a lot of the games that we talk about, which is fun. And then I'm gonna try not to travel for a while. Cause I'm so tired. I went to open sauce. Well, we'll talk about that some other time. But it was really cool. But I'm like so exhausted. No more traveling for Mary for a little bit. Unlike Dan.

[Dan]

I'm coming to you, Dan.

[Mike]

Yeah, Dan, what do you have going on?

[Mary]

Come to me, Dan.

[Dan]

I've got a road trip coming up here. I'm flying into San Francisco a couple days early, hanging out, staying with some, some friends and then hitting the road with giant bombs, Jeff Grubb, Jan Ochoa and Mike Minati. And we are gonna drive up the coast and wind up in Portland, hang out with Mary. Doing a missed convention apparently. I'm sure. Yeah, sure, that'll be interesting. And then, yeah, hanging out with some fans at. We're gonna put together a little meetup thing. So giant bomb fans, how do people

[Mary]

find it if we're keeping it low key?

[Dan]

So we're gonna keep like kind of a premium thing. So we've got got, you know, discord and stuff. We're, we're going to get it out there, but it's going to be very fun. Looking forward to seeing you. That's going to be great and I'm excited. Yeah, it's going to be awesome.

[Mary]

We got to take the boys to a good brunch spot.

[Dan]

Oh, God, that Pine State Biscuits was the best. That was so good.

[Mike]

Speaking of, speaking of premium members, I should mention if you're already a video patron, you saw we did a Mecca chameleon bonus video co op video with all three of us and Jake, our producer. If you're not already a bonus a video patron, go become one. You'll get that. You'll get all our past bonus episodes. That one was super fun, co op, kind friend, sloppy game. You know, we always want to do those. You can also get ad free episodes. Just go to firescapecast.com to get to our patron page and you can become one. We also just have a tip jar if you appreciate what we do. Again, it's firescapecastmail.com as far as I'm concerned. My day job, it's all behind the scenes stuff with games. However, you can probably easily find out where I work. As a song I should tell people I'm at a French wine bar in New York and I'm now at an Italian restaurant as well which is famous. It wood fires everything. You two need to come like next time we do a fire escape thing in New York or just next time you're in New York you need to come because it's like all wood fired. Like rustic Italian food. It's kick ass. But you can find those places on my Instagram. I won't say them out loud now, but I'm basically doxxing myself on my Instagram so you can come say hi, tell me you're a Firestyle listener and be fun to hang out. All right, we will be back in a couple weeks with episode 138. Thanks for joining today everybody. We'll see you then.

[Mary]

Bye.