Jeremiah Watkins - Episode 1095

Summary

Fitzdog Radio – Episode 1095: Jeremiah Watkins with Frank Jackson

Release Date: April 30, 2025

In Episode 1095 of Fitzdog Radio, host Greg Fitzsimmons welcomes comedian Jeremiah Watkins to engage in a dynamic and humorous conversation with his longtime friend, Frank Jackson. The episode delves deep into a variety of topics ranging from hypothetical scenarios and personal anecdotes to insights on decision-making and the intricacies of the comedy world. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing all the key points, discussions, insights, and memorable moments from this engaging episode.

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode kicks off with Jeremiah introducing Frank Jackson, highlighting their long-standing friendship since childhood and Frank’s recent endeavors in the comedy and production scene. Frank shares his excitement about launching his coffee line, Sleepy Hollow Coffee Roasters, drawing parallels to the legendary Sleepy Hollow of North Tarrytown fame.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [14:03]: “It's like jazz. It's literally. It's his own thing. It's not stand up, but, like, it's stand up on the spot.”

2. Hypothetical Debate: 100 Men vs. a Gorilla

Early in the conversation, Jeremiah brings up a quirky and unexpected topic: whether 100 men could take on a gorilla. Frank delves into this thought experiment, analyzing the physical prowess of a silverback gorilla and the likelihood of humans prevailing.

Discussion Points:

• Gorilla's Strength: Frank notes that a silverback gorilla is about 400 pounds, ten times stronger than a human, capable of bending iron bars and running up to 25 mph.
• Human Coordination: The effectiveness of the group depends on the training and strategy of the human participants. While Navy SEALs might pose a significant challenge, typical internet trolls or untrained individuals would likely fall short.
• Environment Factors: The setting—open plane vs. wooded area—plays a crucial role, with wooded areas potentially favoring the gorilla due to its climbing abilities.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [03:33]: “Silverback gorillas are about 400 pounds. They're about 10 times stronger than a human.”

3. Personal Life and the Importance of Community

Frank reminisces about reviving his Sunday brunch tradition, which he started upon moving to LA 25 years ago. This tradition underscores the significance of maintaining close-knit friendships and community, especially as life evolves with aging and raising children.

Discussion Points:

• Reviving Brunches: Frank shares how his brunches have transformed from large gatherings of old friends to intimate meetings with neighbors, highlighting the enduring value of community.
• Positive Aging: He reflects on aging gracefully alongside friends, emphasizing that their stability—none have divorced or succumbed to drug issues—contributes to a supportive community.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [11:03]: “I think community is so important. People talk about marriage or, you know, but like community of friends is, is every. It's not everything, but it's. It's a big. It's a big part of what makes life complete for me, anyway.”

4. Frank Jackson’s Ventures in Comedy and Production

The conversation shifts to Frank's professional life, where he discusses his involvement in various comedy projects, including Kill Tony, Comedy on the Spot, and his aspirations in directing and production. Frank highlights the challenges and rewards of transitioning from being part of established shows to creating his own content.

Discussion Points:

• Transition from Kill Tony: Frank explains how Joe Rogan’s move to Austin forced him to focus on his own project, Stand Up on the Spot, which has garnered nearly 150,000 subscribers.
• Directing Specials: He recounts directing specials for comedians like Josh Wolf and Jack Jr., emphasizing the creative process behind capturing a unique atmosphere for each performer.
• Production Company: Frank talks about launching his production company and securing gigs like Einstein Bros. Bagels campaigns, showcasing his growth beyond performing.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [69:16]: “I've been fortunate to be a part of a lot of cool shows over the years in LA.”

5. Decision-Making and Personal Growth

Jeremiah and Frank delve into the complexities of decision-making, both big and small, and how these choices shape one's life journey. They explore the balance between subconscious decisions and deliberate planning, drawing on personal experiences and observations of others.

Discussion Points:

• Micro vs. Macro Decisions: Frank and Jeremiah discuss how everyday choices, from what to wear to strategic decisions during performances, cumulatively impact one’s life.
• Learning from Mistakes: They emphasize the importance of learning from past decisions without becoming paralyzed by regret.
• Confidence in Choices: Frank shares insights on developing confidence through support systems and personal learning, while Jeremiah reflects on observing the decision-making patterns of successful individuals like billionaires.

Notable Quote:

• Jeremiah Watkins [62:19]: “The confidence to make that decision based on who you are and honoring that, that's a hard decision to make. For some people.”

6. Anecdotes from the Comedy World

The duo shares a series of humorous and sometimes harrowing anecdotes from their careers in comedy. These stories highlight the unpredictable nature of performing, interactions with audiences, and the resilience required to thrive in the entertainment industry.

Anecdotes:

• Car Wash Experiences: Frank narrates his time working at an outdoor car wash in Kansas City, recalling bizarre and unsavory items he encountered, such as a van spilled with nacho cheese.
• On-Stage Altercations: Frank describes encounters where audience members reacted violently or negatively during his sets, emphasizing the importance of maintaining professionalism and adaptability.
• Podcast Dynamics: They humorously discuss the challenges of featuring comedians with personal quirks and the importance of mutual respect among peers.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [22:05]: “I had to carpet shampoo it, so I had to suck it up... I was coughing up and blowing cheese out of my nose. Disgusting.”

7. The Evolution of Comedy and Media

Frank and Jeremiah examine how the comedy landscape has evolved with the advent of shows like Kill Tony, social media platforms, and the shift from character-driven acts to more authentic performances. They ponder the impact of media on a comedian's ability to connect with audiences and the necessity of adapting to changing formats.

Discussion Points:

• Character vs. Authenticity: They discuss the trend of comedians adopting and maintaining characters versus presenting their true selves, weighing the pros and cons of each approach.
• Media Influence: The role of social media in building a comedian’s brand and the pressures it introduces, such as the temptation to compare oneself with others.
• Standalone Acts: The importance of establishing one's identity separate from larger platforms or collaborative projects to ensure personal growth and recognition.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [55:57]: “It’s a win-win. It's a display of like, them being funny, like, you know, just like a podcast, like, but on stage.”

8. Insights on Handling Challenges in Comedy

The conversation moves towards strategies for handling setbacks in comedy, such as bombing on stage, dealing with difficult audiences, and maintaining one's composure. They emphasize resilience, adaptability, and the ability to connect genuinely with the audience as key factors for long-term success.

Discussion Points:

• Bombing and Recovery: Frank shares his method of using negative experiences on stage as learning opportunities to elevate future performances.
• Engaging with the Audience: The importance of reading the room, adjusting one’s act in real-time, and building a rapport with the audience to foster a positive atmosphere.
• Mental Health: They touch upon the mental challenges comedians face, such as depression and anxiety, and the role of performances as a therapeutic outlet.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [46:17]: “The goal always is to hopefully not let the audience know. Like, I don't know.”

9. Closing Remarks and Future Plans

As the episode winds down, Frank and Jeremiah discuss upcoming shows, projects, and the continuous journey of personal and professional development. They highlight the importance of staying true to oneself, embracing change, and fostering supportive relationships within the comedy community.

Upcoming Projects:

• Stand Up on the Spot: Frank previews his ongoing project, aiming to expand its reach and impact within the comedy scene.
• Specials and Productions: Plans for future specials, including collaborations with other comedians and expanding his production endeavors.

Notable Quote:

• Frank Jackson [70:06]: “I've tried to be selective of when to know when it's time to know when it's time to wrap up... to be a vehicle for myself.”

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Key Takeaways and Insights

1. Resilience in Comedy: The ability to recover from on-stage setbacks and use them as catalysts for improvement is crucial for a comedian's growth.

2. Community Matters: Maintaining close-knit relationships and a supportive community can significantly enhance personal well-being and professional success.

3. Adaptability and Authenticity: Balancing character-driven performances with genuine self-expression allows comedians to resonate more deeply with their audiences.

4. Decision-Making: Both micro and macro decisions shape one's life trajectory. Learning from past choices and developing confidence in decision-making are essential for personal development.

5. Evolution of Media: Embracing new media platforms while maintaining authenticity can help comedians navigate the changing landscape of entertainment.

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Memorable Quotes

• Frank Jackson [03:33]: “Silverback gorillas are about 400 pounds. They're about 10 times stronger than a human.”

• Frank Jackson [11:03]: “I think community is so important. People talk about marriage or, you know, but like community of friends is, is every. It's not everything, but it's. It's a big. It's a big part of what makes life complete for me, anyway.”

• Frank Jackson [14:03]: “It's like jazz. It's literally. It's his own thing. It's not stand up, but, like, it's stand up on the spot.”

• Jeremiah Watkins [62:19]: “The confidence to make that decision based on who you are and honoring that, that's a hard decision to make. For some people.”

• Frank Jackson [70:06]: “I've tried to be selective of when to know when it's time to know when it's time to wrap up... to be a vehicle for myself.”

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This episode of Fitzdog Radio offers a rich tapestry of humor, personal reflection, and professional insights, making it a valuable listen for both comedy enthusiasts and those interested in the nuanced journey of decision-making and community building.

Transcript

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

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[Jeremiah Watkins]

Welcome.

[Guest]

To Fitz Dog Radio. It's another I record these on Monday.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They come out on Wednesday.

[Guest]

I don't know what's going on in your life right now, but I've been on Twitter a little bit today, which I'm not. I don't go on it a lot, to be honest. I feel like I've outgrown it. But there was a discussion today about whether or not a hundred men could take on a gorilla, which captivated my attention way more than it should have. It should have been a glancing thought exercise for just a few seconds. And it turned into maybe an hour, maybe an hour of debating it online. And I don't, I don't know. In, in the end, I think what it comes down to is, all right, a gorilla, take, take a silverback gorilla, those big fast motherfuckers that you see in the zoo, and you're so glad that there's a giant Plexiglas wall between you or whatever and a hundred guys, and you think, all right, well, maybe if it was the right. A hundred guys, like, okay, if you got Navy SEALs that are first of all gonna work in unison and are gonna have a strategy and are going to be willing to get injured if not killed, I mean, there's a very good chance that the first two guys in are cannon fodder. They're guerrilla fodder. You will get ripped apart. Can you, as a soldier absorb? Now? Normally they would because they're fighting for liberty, they're fighting for democracy. But in this case, you're fighting over an Internet dare. So I guess you're not going to get Navy seals. So you're going to have to ratchet it down to the next level down and the next level down and many, many levels down. I think it would really just be a hundred Internet trolls, shitty people, People that don't care that the silverback gorilla is an endangered species and are willing to kill one to settle a bet. Is it a bet or is it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Just a, it's just a question.

[Guest]

So I don't know. So here's some of the research that I did. Silverback gorillas are about 400 pounds. They're about 10 times stronger than a human. They can bend iron bars. They have longer arms. They can run like 25 miles an hour. They can fucking climb, which we can't. They've got super thick skin. They got really hard muscles. So you're not, you're not going to hurt them. The only thing you're going to try to do is wear them down by getting as many guys or women, maybe.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Women want to do this.

[Guest]

I don't want to. Gender shame. Get as many on each limb as you can, I would guess. But, you know, they, we don't, we scatter. I think humans might run in together, but when they see the first guy's head get literally ripped off, it would become very unorganized. It would be, it would be easy pickings because then the gorilla can take people on two or three at a time, which is no problem at all. Is it a wide open plane that might favor the humans because then they can surround. They can do what the CRO Magnon man used to do with, with elk. But if you're in a wooded area where the gorilla can jump up into a tree, et cetera, that's to his advantage. What else? Yeah, so I think it'd just be about weighing, weighing the gorilla down and hopefully not killing him. Let's just, let's just make him tap out. You would need to, you would need to grab and hold and I, I, I just don't know. Like, I was thinking about what about other things. Like, like, like, I, I would think that a bear might be even more ferocious than a gorilla because a gorilla can grab you and definitely hit you, but a bear can fucking destroy you with his claws and his mouth. And if you get a big one, I don't know what are the biggest ones?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Grizzlies.

[Guest]

If you get a grizzly, I Mean, you can't even go eye to eye with that guy. The gorilla you're going eye to eye with. The bear has, oh my God, he's got layers of fat. Or what about a hippo? Hippos kill more humans than. I shouldn't say any animal because we always go like mosquito. Well, I don't know, is a mosquito an animal? But I think as far as actual animals, I think hippos kill more people. They are crazy. So hippo might be a better one. Or.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

What if you flip it?

[Guest]

What if you flip it and you make a one human versus a hundred, maybe 100 hungry rats. Like starved rats in like a squared off ring. Who would win that? I think, I think the rats would, to be perfectly honest, I think they would.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They know what to go.

[Guest]

They go for your asshole in your eyes. And once you don't have an asshole or eyes, you can't fight. What about one human baby versus a thousand baby chicks? Because the baby, not a newborn, but like say a six month old. They, they have very strong hands. I've seen videos where they can hang off of bars. Like they can hold their body weight and I think they might crush maybe a hundred. A hundred chicks. Or what about one, one Israeli soldier versus 50 pro Palestinian sorority girls. And, but, but they each, but they've each drank like six white claws, which I don't know if that helps them or hurts them. I think for some of them it's. For some of them it's spinach, Popeye spinach. And for some of them they get groggy and maybe not so tough. So let's say that. Or what about. What about one Pope, one human Pope versus a thousand cancer cells? Who wins that? Oh, I guess we, I guess we just saw who wins that. And the, and the Pope had God behind him. Here's the thing. The Pope fought cancer. Was it can't. I don't even know how the Pope died. I'm assuming it was cancer. He was old, probably had cancer, right? Which means that God had cancer kill his Pope, cuz God made cancer, right? Anyway, enough, enough. Had a great guest today who's gonna be on in a minute. I was jamming out to Courtney Barnett all day. Do you know her music? Oh, she's fantastic.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's why I like having kids.

[Guest]

They turn me on to some music I wouldn't have heard before. Courtney Barnett, very talented. And then I want to talk about. I had a good time with my kids this weekend. Hung out, we had brunch. We've had brunch. At our house. A couple times in the last few weeks, we do a Sunday brunch. It's something that when we first moved to LA 25 years ago, we used to have brunch every Sunday. And all my friends would come over. It was like all my New York. Everybody I knew from New York moved to LA at the same time. So it was Mike Gibbons and Mary Fitzgerald and Tom O'Neill, then Zach Galifianakis and Nick Swartzen and Zoe Friedman. And it was comedians and other people. And we used to hang out all day at my house. And for some reason we just. We had kids and we just stopped doing it. So I kind of started it again. And I realized, like my neighbors, it's just my neighbors come over and I've got a very close group of friends in the neighborhood and we've. We've grown. Can I say we've grown old? We kind of have. I'm 59. I've grown old. Do you grow old or do you fade old? Do you. Do you degenerate old? Growing sounds like it's going in a positive direction. So we've gotten old together and we've raised kids together, and they all come.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Over and they're all different kinds of people.

[Guest]

A lot of my writers, many of my friends are writers. They write for DLA Times, they write for. They write screenplays, they write books, they write on sitcoms. A lot of writers. An architect was here, an actor, couple actors, a musician. And what's crazy is we've all lived in this same little like three block radius. It's like, it's probably about 10 couples that, that we're very close to. You know, we play poker a lot. We just went to somebody else's house for dinner this past week, and then we. We just do stuff. And I think it's really good for you. You know, Like, I was thinking about it. Of the 10 couples, nobody's gotten divorced. And everybody raised kids. Everybody's kids. Look, I'm not saying they're all rocket scientists, but none of them are like fucked up on drugs. And they've pretty much all moved out at this point. You know, once they've gotten to a certain age, at a reasonable age, they've moved out. I think community is so important. People talk about marriage or, you know, but like community of friends is, is, is every. It's not everything, but it's. It's a big. It's a big part of what makes life complete for me, anyway. I don't know, but whatever all right, so I have more funny stuff to.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Say, but I feel like I just.

[Guest]

Want to get to the guest. Today. We have my friend Frank Jackson, who's a buddy of mine. I've known this kid since I was probably 12 years old, 11. And we grew up together. We're still good friends. He lives in Atlanta now. He has launched a line of. A line of coffee, I guess a line of coffee. It's called Sleepy Hollow Coffee Roasters, because that was. That's what North Tarrytown is now called. Sleepy Hollow. And that's the name of the high school in town. So he's got this. These amazing car. He sent me home with a whole bunch of them. And they're all different. They all really rich. And I mean, he walked me through all the steps of roasting and what he does. It's incredible coffee. There's one called Ichabod because Ibad Crane, who's the legend of Sleepy Hollow. Washington Irving. Anyway, the Ichabod one, I think, is my favorite. It's got like. It's like an espresso. It's like sweet and dark, chocolatey tasting. And I like my coffee to have a little chocolate to it. That's a guilty pleasure. But this is just really good quality stuff. I really want you guys to check it out. He's just launching this.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

He just launched the website.

[Guest]

It's called sleepyhollowcoffeeroasters.com and he's putting out a special promotion for my listeners. Get 15% off your first entire order. And if it's over 50 bucks, it ships for free. Use promo code FITZDogg F I, T, Z D O, G. I don't profit from this, but this guy is a quality dude who has made a great product that I think you'll really enjoy. And I hope you'll check it out and see what you think. If you do like it, you can sign up for a membership. And again, it's Sleepy Hollow coffeeroasters dot com. Write to me at fitzdogradiomail dot com. Let me know what you think of it. We can read the reviews online, good and bad. Sorry, Frank. I'll read the bad ones too. I don't think there will be any, but I'm gonna be straightforward on this. It's. Yeah, there's a. There's a mocha Java one that I really like that's got kind of a little nutty thing to it. I think it's called Old Dutch. Old Dutch? Yeah. Uh, so try. Here's the two I'd recommend Old Dutch and Ichabod. Those are the two I really like. Um, he's gonna send me some more so I can review the others anyway. Also, what else? I want to give a shout out. I'll do that later. My tour dates, I'm gonna be in Huntington, California, this month. This Sunday night, May 4th, at the Mamba Escondido Grand Comedy Club. May 9th and 10th, I'll be in Cincinnati at the Commonwealth something. May 16th and 17th. It's actually in Dayton, Kentucky, Tampa, side splitters. June 5th through the 7th. Naples, Florida. Off the hook, June 8th. Then I'll be in Torrance, Austin, Point Pleasant, New Jersey, La Jolla, Vegas, Chicago, New Orleans. Go to fitzdog.com, get some tickets, come out and support some live comedy. Don't forget also the merchandise. If you go to fitzdog.com, the Sunday papers, hats and mugs, tote bags, all kinds of stuff for the fifth anniversary. Pick one up, show it off to your friends. All right, so let's get to it. My guest. Okay, what do we got for my guest? Let's pull up his credits. I want to make sure I get them. All right. Jeremiah Watkins. Jeremiah is a guy that I've known. He kind of started out doing the Kill Tony. Well, no, I think first it was the roast battle, and he was there was like this Create the Wave and the roast battle that he did. This physical crazy comedy comes out of Chicago, I think, Second City. I know he did professional improv, and you see it in his stand up. He's very loose and back and forth with the crowd in a really good way. And then he's been. He was in the band on Kill Tony for a long time, and he's since split off and started his own thing. And I just did his podcast, I think it's called Comedy on the Spot that's out this week that I just did with Jeff Ross and a couple other funny people. So check that out. But here is my conversation I had with him just a couple weeks ago. Here is the great Jeremiah Watkins.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I'm here with Jeremiah Watkins. Jeremiah, I got to tell you right out of the gate. I mean, I always thought he was a stylish guy. You're tall, you're lean, you can wear almost anything. And you came in here today with this fedora.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I mean, where do you. Where do you even buy something like that?

[Frank Jackson]

You know, there's a pawn shop down on Melrose that not many people know about.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

What did you pawn to get it?

[Frank Jackson]

My car.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. This is a really expensive. Yeah. I asked for if I could get the guy's hat from Jurassic Park. The old guy.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

And they said that they couldn't include the amber cane.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

But just to exchange. Just for the car, straight up. And I was like, you know, this is a fair trade.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, but. But then you're in a position where you've got the hat. It's worth tens of thousands of dollars. Now, how do you get home? Because, I mean, you can't take the bus.

[Frank Jackson]

I'm Ubering in style. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Uber.

[Frank Jackson]

Blacks only with this hat.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And then. And do you talk about the hat with the driver? You don't want to draw any attention to it.

[Frank Jackson]

Don't want to draw any attention. No.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Well, it's an honor to have you and the hat.

[Frank Jackson]

Thank you. This is my plus one that I was asking about.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, that's what you meant. It's the hat. Oh, I see.

[Frank Jackson]

Because it takes up some real estate on screen.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Right next to me.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

All right. Actually, Jeremiah got here with a green hat on. And you can't tell. I don't know if people can tell when they look at this beautiful set that Paul Roman has designed and Amber has helped put together. This is green screen.

[Frank Jackson]

It fooled me. Obviously, I didn't think to not wear a green hat.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Well, I. I should have told you not to wear a green hat.

[Frank Jackson]

I mean, but how many people wear green hats?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Very rarely. Right.

[Frank Jackson]

It's a rare thing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. I'm trying to think off the top of my head, I guess, you know, some of the Oakland A's. Is that a green team? Green.

[Frank Jackson]

Green and yellow.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Green and yellow.

[Frank Jackson]

The jets, huh? The Eagles sometimes.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

The Eagles sometimes. Yeah. I don't know. I. I like to wear green because I'm Irish. And my eyes. You can't tell that my eyes are green because I have recessed kind of a chromagne brow, which. So you can't. You. You don't look at my eyes up close. They're kind of beautiful.

[Frank Jackson]

Wow. They're very nice.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But nobody knows.

[Frank Jackson]

They're like shamrock shaped green.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They're shamrock shape green. And you can only get them for like three months of the year. But I call them the closers because if I meet a girl, it's gonna be. And you know. Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. That's. What. That's.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Maybe you like my wrap, maybe you like my shirt, but you're not sure. And then I bring in the closers.

[Frank Jackson]

When I get in close, I'M moist.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

I just went moist.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. The thing is, with a guy, if he goes moist, he's done. Like, if you're flirting and you go, I'm moist.

[Frank Jackson]

Well, it already happened.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. With a woman. I mean, she's getting ready. Right?

[Frank Jackson]

Right. We're done. Don't pull those around me whenever we're shaking hands at the store. When you're bringing me up or I'm bringing you up. Don't. Don't. Give me one of these. I don't want to start my salad.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, right.

[Frank Jackson]

That's embarrassing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Do that to the other comics.

[Frank Jackson]

Do it. That's a power move.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That is a power move.

[Frank Jackson]

They can't even do anything about it. They can't resist those eyes.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And then everybody's like, wow, nobody can follow Greg Fitzsimmons.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. They. They get not funny, and there's come in their pants at the beginning of their set.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. And they get lethargic.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. They just want to take a nap.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I'm useless after an orgasm. I plan them judiciously. I have a rule, and I say it out loud. Never jerk off on Monday. Because Monday is the day you got to get going. You got to get your list out.

[Frank Jackson]

I think I own a Muhammad Ali poster with that saying on it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Cash's Clay.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, he said that, I think.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Damn.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, it has, like. I have another version where there's, like, a jet airplane with it on it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Never jerk off on Monday.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You ever jerked off on a plane?

[Frank Jackson]

No.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You're a little tall for that.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh. I mean, I'm lucky just to make it to the bathroom. I'm all hunched and, you know. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You ever dropped a deuce on a plane?

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, yeah. Of course. You have to sometimes. Emergency.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I can't imagine you. What are you, six foot three? Six, three?

[Frank Jackson]

I'm a praying mantis in there. Just legs up on my freaking. Just trying to my own homemade squatty potty in there.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And you can't wipe because you get the little praying mantis.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Just the little T. Rex hand. I don't know how to get down there. I just try to. It's a mess. So then once again, I'm moist.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

On a flight, you're always moisture.

[Frank Jackson]

That's what they tell me. Always moist and looking. With this hat, it makes sense.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, my God. I can't. If I wore that hat with my eyes, I think the whole audience would get moist.

[Frank Jackson]

I think it would. They'd have to shut the club down.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yep. Shut it down.

[Frank Jackson]

Shut it down.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Bring on Don Barris.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, the show's over.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, you. Yeah, right. That's when, you know, the shows are. People don't realize Don Barris comes on stage. It's every night, right?

[Frank Jackson]

Every night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

If you ever come out to Los Angeles, because there's like comedy tour, sex tourists go to Thailand, comedy tourists come to LA and they go to the store.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They really got three stages and sometimes you'll see shows in two rooms that night. And obviously the lineups are crazy. You're there at least three nights a week.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And you know, Don Barris is this guy who. He does audience warm up for the Jimmy Kimmel show for 15 years. He sleeps all day. He emerges from, you know, the earth, the crust of the Earth, at like 4pm and he gets riled up and he comes in and he goes on last.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But he gets there 9:00 and just kind of watches.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Hangs out, goes through the halls.

[Frank Jackson]

Does Instagram Lives.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yep.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, he's always like streaming.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

He's got. Sometimes if it's Monday, he has his Ding Dong show, which is. If you haven't seen that, if you're a comedy fan, you got to check it out. It's late on Monday nights. He has. The only way to describe it, it's. It's a cast of misfit toys that he's found all over la and he just does this bizarre show with them.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Are they homeless? Some of them.

[Frank Jackson]

I think they've. Some of them have been at some point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Maybe they're the kind of people that they're not homeless. They're just, they're. They're home. Sporadic.

[Frank Jackson]

They're in between homes at the moment.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're. They're not homeless, but it's not their home when they're sleeping somewhere.

[Frank Jackson]

Right. Yeah, it's a favor.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, yeah. A favor that's got about an hour day, shelf life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know a couple guys like that.

[Frank Jackson]

But yeah, it's. It's a, it's a chaotic show that you gotta see and any.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And it's funny because, like, because he does warm up. You know, I don't know what you make to do warm up, but I think it's actually pretty lucrative. I bet you he makes four or five grand a week.

[Frank Jackson]

Hey, that's good for, for warm up.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It's great, it's great. And then he does his spots every night. So I don't know what you make, you know, if he's in the O. I don't know what they pay him. They probably give him 100 bucks a night. That's another different bucks than the other.

[Frank Jackson]

Comics, I would imagine. I would imagine more like a hosting kind of a fee kind of a thing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I'm going to call Emily right now and find out. I bet. I bet you. I bet you he gets. He's got to get a little bit extra for that. If he's not, I think we can.

[Frank Jackson]

Plead our case for Don to get more money. If he's making the same. I mean, he should make a little bit. He on stage longer than everybody else.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yes. And it's also the pressure of closing it out.

[Frank Jackson]

Right.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Are you really calling her?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I'm trying. It's so funny. Like somebody young like you, if you were to try to call somebody on the phone, it would take you three seconds to pull it up. And I don't have her number in my phone. She books me every week at the club. I have it, but I can't find it.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Jesus. Do you think of me as an old guy?

[Frank Jackson]

No.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No. Good.

[Frank Jackson]

No, I think of you as seasoned nice.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I like that.

[Frank Jackson]

You know what I mean?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, you're.

[Frank Jackson]

You've been around. But no, I don't. Because the only. The guys who I think of as old guys are guys who. And this may sound weird, is like guys who I don't like, riff with. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Like if you're not like in passing and like kind of like in the mix, then like, they're kind of just doing their own thing. And like, I respect that. But like, they're not like in the cut. Like, they're not down to hang in the hall or the back seats or whatever and cut it up.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

That's why I consider like old comics where they're like, no, I'm done with that.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, I'm locked in. I'm locked in.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, they're just doing their set. They're kind of like. They talk to their people, but they. They're kind of closed off.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They. Sometimes they come in with a friend who's non comic and they're all too cancer.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Never. And never bring a non comic. Don't even bring a comic. Come alone to the fucking club.

[Frank Jackson]

I know. Because they're just a special occasion. That's gotta be.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It's my cousin from New Jersey and he just ins. And you, big smile. But inside you're going like, oh, God, this guy's gonna be. He's Gonna be the riff killer. You know, you're gonna all be riffing. And then he's gonna interject something that.

[Frank Jackson]

Ever been left with the cousin from New Jersey.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And you're just standing there, and you're.

[Frank Jackson]

Like, I don't even know what to do with this. Why am I babysitting your New Jersey?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Jeff Ross comes swinging in here with his cousin, and then he goes off to do a spot. And now I'm trying to talk about financial planning. I don't have any finances to plan.

[Frank Jackson]

That's what I forget sometimes when I go back to Kansas City to visit family, I'll talk with family members, friends who I like. It's after a show or I'm just home visiting. Yeah. And then, like, after a couple minutes, I'm like, what do you want to. What do you want to talk about? Because I, you know, like, I don't know what the. I don't know where to take this.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It's also tough when they know what you do. Maybe they've listened to your podcast. They have, like, a lot more information on you than you do on them.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And then they sort of ask you questions, especially if it's somebody brand new. Like, when did you know you want to be a commander?

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, those questions. I've started to. On podcasts. When somebody asked me that, I go, we're not doing this.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

They go, what?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

You can literally ask me anything. I literally, like, I'm a. I'm a comic. I'm an improviser. You can do whatever you want with me, but let's not do this. How did. And when did you know?

[Guest]

And, like.

[Frank Jackson]

And how did you get your start? I'm like, there's just enough online where you can just find that.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Are you on the circuit?

[Frank Jackson]

And also, like, if we're buddies, like, figure it out.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Right, right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Are you on the circus? What? I was left the circuit.

[Frank Jackson]

Like.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Like, we're black guys in the 1930s.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And you just do the chitlin circuit. You just take it. You're hitchhiking from Memphis.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

To, you know, Louisville.

[Frank Jackson]

I heard they cover your bus ticket if you do that gig. Oh, all right, cool.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know what I found out is, like, those old. Those old guys, when the rooms were all run by the Mafia, they were like Playboy clubs and, like, little, you know, jazz clubs, and they bring in comedians, and, you know, they all wore those diamond pinky rings.

[Frank Jackson]

Why?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Because back then, there was no credit cards, and so if they got stiffed On a gig from a mob guy they used the ring to buy. They'd hock it like you do with your hat.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And then they would have enough money to take the train back home again.

[Frank Jackson]

So the hat is my diamond ring.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's it.

[Frank Jackson]

That's pretty cool.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

We should get diamond rings, me and you.

[Frank Jackson]

Matching pink diamond rings.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, and then. And then when we pass off the mic to each other, we do one of these. We clank them, we clink them.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, yeah, right?

[Frank Jackson]

And people will be like, what is. What does that mean?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Don't worry about it. Hey, you don't ask questions. We're not gonna do that.

[Frank Jackson]

Don't ask questions. You want to hear the answers to.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

We should get every comic to wear pinky rings.

[Frank Jackson]

And then people will be like, is this a weird cult? Like, what is this? Everybody has a diamond pinky ring.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right. It's got cyanide in it for the Friday night late show. That doesn't go right. You just pop it open. Yeah, the. Those old Borschtbaugh comics. I got to know them because I was a member of the Friars Club in New York.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Which was really cool. Jeff Ross was there a lot. And Susie Essman from Curb. Judy Gold. Elon Gold. You know, Elon Gold. And it was just a good hanging. Like, you know, we were all comics banging around the city at night. We had our days free, and we would go there.

[Frank Jackson]

That's a great club to be a part of.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It was great. They had a pool table. The two pool tables. You'd shoot pool. They had a card room upstairs. I want to play pool sometime. Oh, are you a player?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Okay. I'd love that.

[Frank Jackson]

I'd love it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, the west side doesn't have any pool other than bar tables. There's no pool hall anymore.

[Frank Jackson]

There's one. There's one. The Brickyard Tavern and in Hollywood has a couple tables that are pretty good.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They're decent tables.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Full size and. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. There's nothing worse than. You go into a bar and people have their beers on the table and some chick is sitting on the table.

[Frank Jackson]

I hate that. Just seeing that, like, you know, just out of you, like, respect for the. The. Just for the equipment and stuff. I'm just like. When somebody sets a beer on the felt, it drives me insane.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, because you're from Kansas City.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. I mean, respect the table.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Kansas City is a pool town. That's like. Everyone's got a pinky ring. Yeah, Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Everyone's at Least got a. A lot of people have tables in their basements. Or do they?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, I grew up with a table in my basement. Just full disclosure, just so you know what you're getting into.

[Frank Jackson]

Okay.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Did you have a table in your basement?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, I did. Oh, it's going.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh. What's your game? Eight ball. Nine ball, Straight pool.

[Frank Jackson]

I'm not. I never got into nine ball. Two Too much.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Fun. But, yeah, nine ball's fun because it's like life. There's a time to be on offense and there's a time to be on defense.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. I think I would like it if I tried playing consistently, but it's, you know, there's. I. I very. You have to be very strategic with nine ball where I've, like, I've ran most of them. Then I get down to, you know, last ball or two and then game's over.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Other guy grabs it on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's. It's really about having a vision for the table and being able to set up your shots. But I won a nine ball tournament at the Friars Club.

[Frank Jackson]

Whoa.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

That's cool.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. And I was. I was brand new. I was only like. I was like, maybe 25 years old. And the guy I played in the finals was Paul Sorvino from Goodfellas. Paul Sorvino? Yeah, Paulie.

[Frank Jackson]

Paulie.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And he definitely had a pinky ring.

[Frank Jackson]

I'm sure he did.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

He was.

[Frank Jackson]

He put it on the table at any point.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

He said, fitz dog. He used to call me Fitz dog. And he said, you know, he was very sweet. Like, we won. And then they started a team. There was a league in New York, and it was like the different clubs would play each other. The Harvard club, the Players Club, which was like. It's like an old Broadway Equity Club, but, you know, fancy. And then you had the. There was one that was all union. Union officers. The. The union club.

[Frank Jackson]

Okay.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And the union club was like old Mayflower white people. And the servants. Is so fucking weird. Were not only all black, they were dark black and they wore white gloves. Weird. Yeah. So actually, I don't know that they were black even because they had the gloves on. It could have been white guys and blackface.

[Frank Jackson]

Sounds like a pretty cool club to be a part of. Are they accepting members, Greg? Because I'm looking for a new home.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I mean, it's funny because you see that and you go, this is wrong. And then you think, all right, we need. That means we need less diversity.

[Frank Jackson]

Right, Right. Or diversity in the right places. I got to be selective with my diversity.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, we got to reverse diverse. This one.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. White guys with black gloves.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Have you ever worked a job where you're mostly with black people or Latino people other than yourself?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, I've worked. Worked the car wash that I worked at a car wash in Kansas City for a while, and it was a pretty good mix of everybody.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

There. And then some of the. Just some of the restaurant jobs that I worked, it was a mixture of, like. I mean, it's mostly Mexicans in the kitchen. Like.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Like, at this Italian restaurant that I worked at.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

And there was one guy named Arturo that we called Arturini. The dishwashing machine spoke no English. Happiest guy you've ever met in your entire life. He was the fastest freaking dude.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Those guys are amazing. They always make you feel like, holy, if this guy can be happy, how is it? I'm working an hour a night, and, you know, you're at the. You're at the St. Louis Improv, and, like, you know, numbers are low on the Thursday night show, whatever. And then you see this dude whipping out glasses and smiling and laughing. You know, it's. It's amazing.

[Frank Jackson]

It's a good reminder when you do gigs like that, and then you go to somewhere, like, you know, Starbucks or something where somebody is clearly hating their life.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, you're.

[Frank Jackson]

That's a good reminder. You're like, we have a pretty good.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

We're chasing the dream. Hey, Sometimes the dream, there's bumps along the way.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Sure.

[Frank Jackson]

I mean.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Come on.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I know.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I know. I'm. I go back and forth. I. I think social media is. Is the place where I get the least happy, because on one hand, there's. There's. There's the joy of seeing somebody doing. Well, like, Tony Hinchcliffe just put out a video about. Did you see that video he just put out? He just posted.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And. And I was like, good for him. Here's this guy celebrating something that's helping other comics, and I'm happy for his success. And then sometimes I see somebody who's playing a big theater, and they're kind of being douchey about walking out with the fucking arms up and the crowd standing o. And the. And it. And you go like, you know.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Not that I want to be that guy. I just don't want you to be that guy sometimes.

[Frank Jackson]

I mean, my buddy, Stevie Weeby. Do you ever met Bobby Lee's brother, Steve Lee?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I did.

[Frank Jackson]

So I did A podcast with him for a while. And I always said, don't compare and despair. Don't compare. Like, because you know that. That classic. And I really don't comparison is the Joy of Thief. That. That.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Quote that we've all heard. But like. Yeah, it's that. Dude, social media, that's the easiest place.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

To do it if you're gonna place. I feel it. I never feel it in, like, when I'm at the store, it's like, this is. I don't resent anybody and I'm. I'm happy for everybody.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

In general, I'm happy for everybody.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And then. But then I get on social media and it's just one. Especially when I, like, I just had a bad weekend and you're just watching one after the other.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Tony Hinchcliffe and the guys.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Streaming on Netflix Now Kill Tony.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Streaming.

[Frank Jackson]

You hear about it. Now his Kill Tony is on Netflix.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

How often?

[Frank Jackson]

It just releases a special and there they have a couple more that are in the works that are going to be put out, like, in the next few months.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, so they'll put one out every few months.

[Frank Jackson]

I think that's how it goes.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really.

[Frank Jackson]

But I'm just a guy in this hat, so you can't.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Have you been on any of them that are going on Netflix?

[Frank Jackson]

Not on the Netflix ones.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Okay.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But you've done a ton of Kill Tony's.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, I mean, I was the original. One of the original band leadership. Yeah. Did a couple hundred episodes, like five years of the show.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Damn. Yeah. Yeah. It's a phenomenon.

[Frank Jackson]

It truly is. It's pretty cool.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's kind of like how the. The Gong show is so big, and that was before your time, but the Gong show was probably in the 70s and. And it did create a lot of stars, you know, that came off the show that were goofballs, but there wasn't the outlets for those people. Like, now you just got comedy clubs, you know, if you get big on that show, they just plug into Contour. Yep.

[Frank Jackson]

Do clubs and then theaters.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Social media.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Back then it was just more like everybody knew the unknown comic or, you.

[Frank Jackson]

Know, is that where he originally came from?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Gong Show.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Really?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

I was curious. I need to do some research on that guy because I literally see his headshot at every comedy club I go to.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, really?

[Frank Jackson]

Like in just the random clubs, you'll find the unknown comic.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Like at Zany's, at the Store like, just random spots, like, all over the country. Like, I've seen the unknown comic, but I just didn't know, like, what if.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

People don't know who the uno comic is? Because maybe this is inside baseball, but there's a comic out on stage in a tacky suit, and he had a brown bag over his head, and he did very kind of corny, goofy animated comedy, and it was hilarious. Just such a funny idea. Because, you know, comedy was just kind of starting at that point, like, that style of comedy.

[Frank Jackson]

Sure.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

He was this. He was kind of making fun of that. That guy. Yeah, it was very meta.

[Frank Jackson]

I mean, early old comedy. It sounds like a little bit.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess Andy Kaufman was probably doing it around then. And, you know, a lot of the comics in the 80s also, you don't see people doing characters. Like, in the 80s, you had, you know, Bobcat Goldthwaite and Judy Tenuta and Ema Phillips, and even Kinison was obviously playing a character, you know, and now it's like, yeah, you get Joey Diaz, but then you meet Joey and you go, oh, that's not a character. You know, like, I mean, I think.

[Frank Jackson]

That'S part of the attraction to Adam Ray's Dr. Phil.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

You know.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Is like, there's not a lot of people doing that thing out there where they're playing a character. I mean, my friend Chelsea Lynn has a great character. Trailer trash Tammy. She tours with that. Like, in character.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

She. Oh, yeah, of course. Right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

But there's. There's like a fahim. Does Lance can stopless at the start.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But does he go out and he doesn't with it?

[Frank Jackson]

Which I would love to see him.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

I mean, he's so. I mean, just.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You think he could maintain that for an hour?

[Frank Jackson]

I don't know. It might have to be part of a variety show or. You have to build towards that because, you know, to headline as just ourselves is hard enough. Like, to headline as a character.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, that's tough.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Because if they're not buying it, you're stuck in that character for an hour. And we have nights where they're not buying it. And then you pivot, you know, you change your energy, you do a little more crowd work. You. You know, there's so many adjustments you can make, but when you're in a character, that's it.

[Frank Jackson]

I know, I know. Nothing worse than jumping ship on a. Like, staying committed as a character. Actually, guys, sorry. This isn't the real me. I. I apologize that you guys don't like that character. Let me. Let me figure something else out. Like, you're like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I mean, in some ways, you can do. Like, my own Persona can change depending on the crowd sometimes.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, dude, absolutely. You know, sometimes I'm way angrier than others.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Sometimes I'm coming in hot or just, like, depending on the audience. Like, they set me off in a way where I'm like, okay, let me channel this into the jokes.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

And that's. The tone is gonna be a little bit more. Oh, he's a little bit more.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Ready to be.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Well, it's also where you're coming from. Like, I really think that to be a good comic, you have to. You have to walk on stage. Like, I've had. I have depression and I've had nights. Like, I had a night this year at the San Francisco Punchline, and I'm sitting in the hotel, and it's like, probably my favorite club in the country, but somehow I fly in on Thursday, and I get in at 3:00, and I sat in my room in the dark for, like, two hours, like, just looking straight ahead. I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, wow.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And I kind of just dragged myself over there. And normally I'm like, you know, I know the manager. There's a hug. I. Whoever's serving me in the green room, I get to know them.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Other comics, you know, you're busting their ball. I just came in flat. I didn't say hi to anybody. I just walked in the green room and I just sat in the corner. And then they brought me on stage and I just said. I said, I'm in a dark place right now, and I really don't know how I'm gonna do this. And then somebody yelled something out like, you know, you can do it, man, or something. And then I just shit on him. And then I just, like, spun into comedy mode.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Like, it. Not right away. It took me a few minutes, but after I got a couple laughs, it was like. It was like I had just been injected with. What's the drug that makes you happy?

[Frank Jackson]

Adrenaline.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Endorphins. It was like I got an endorphin flood.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And when I walked off stage, that mood was. I couldn't even remember that.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And I was in a good mood for the rest of the weekend. But I speak. But if I had gone on stage and pretended I was in a good.

[Frank Jackson]

Place, then you might have bombed or felt bad. Not bomb. But, you know, I wouldn't we know. We know when we don't. Like, at this point, like, we know when we don't like sets. The goal is, even. The goal always is to hopefully not let the audience know. Like, I don't know.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Well, I think it's about connecting to them in an honest way.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, and. Which means I feel like if I can meet them where they are and where. And where I am and we have a relationship at the end of the show, even if there weren't a ton of laughs, people walk out and they go, hey, that was great. Like, they, they. They react to it. They feel it.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, as opposed to just giving him the same, like, I don't know, like, Kevin Meaney is probably my favorite comedian of all time. And he would go on stage and he was, I mean, another character. Like, he just was wacky and high energy and silly, and he wore a bow tie and a jacket. He used to sweat. He would bring an extra shirt between shows. You know, he gave the audience a thousand percent, but if they weren't buying it, like, he didn't change gears. He just kept on going. Right. Which made the comedians, like, that's when he'd get in the back of the room and watch, because then he'd sweat even more and he'd start, like, he'd start saying just little things between jokes, and it was. It was amazing. So some of the.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Some of the biggest laughs I've ever gotten from comics is when I'm just deep.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

In a act out that's not working. Yeah. Just deep. Committing to a physical bit where the audience is not into it at all. There's just comics howling in the back because I'm like. And then not this. Okay, let me try this over here.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. And you hear that laugh and you know whose it is?

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, it's a dark.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

You.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

When you hear Eric Griffin. Dark laughing. Yeah. It's like, wow. And that can save you. That can. You know.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

A good. A bad set can be really nice sometimes. You know, it can be so grounding when you just go up there and. And it's not happening. And you just. And you let it not happen. Not that you. To give up.

[Frank Jackson]

Right.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But you. You're still trying, but you're not, like, you're not freaking out anymore. And then the next set you have is always, like, one of the best sets you've ever had because you just, like, you have to recover.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. When you. That reset factor, when you're like, okay, yeah, now I'm Owed a good one right after what I just.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Went through and what I put that crowd through.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. What. Tell me more about the car wash. Yeah, I meant to go back to that.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Like working in a car wash. I worked there for.

[Frank Jackson]

This was like back in Kansas City and it was a. It was an outdoor year round car wash. So.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Are there indoor car washes?

[Frank Jackson]

Not. Well, I mean, when you put it that way, not really. Many more like covered like kind of things.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But most of them are covered well.

[Frank Jackson]

Like. So the outside, like once it went through the automated part.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

We would wipe it down outside with all the elements there was.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Year round.

[Frank Jackson]

Year round.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No shit.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. That's why I say outdoor because it's like, you know, you're exposed to everything. So, like you would look out and there was a bank, a big bank clock across the street, and it would be over 100 degrees in the summer. And then it would be. I remember looking at it down to 17 degrees in the winter. And there's people who are members who if they had a card, anytime they filled up with gas, they get a free wash.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I was part of a gas station. Were you pumping gas as well? It just not.

[Frank Jackson]

No, there was. There's basically like a. There'd be like a sales attendant who'd come out and they're like, hey, you want to wash your car today? Like that kind of a thing. But.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

They wouldn't like pump it for you.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

So then you were out there with the rag, just buffing it down. Getting inside the car with the spray.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, dude. Detailing the inside. Like if they paid for that. And then like getting the wheels, dressing the tires, the whole thing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Never like when they do the tires because I feel like the shine. I feel like they put that armor all on and it looks too shiny. And then I feel like over time it actually dries out the rubber.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, I don't know.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You never stuck around for that. No, I did your little armor all thing.

[Frank Jackson]

I did the armor on, then I let it out. I think the idea is, is that, you know, you get your car washed so much that there's always that shine on it. That's.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I do think that.

[Frank Jackson]

I think it is. Yes, yes. Because you get used to. Oh, that looks pretty nice. Yeah, it's kind of fading. Maybe I should go get a.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It's like a fade in your hair.

[Frank Jackson]

Right, right.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You got to keep that fade tight.

[Frank Jackson]

Tight.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And did you ever find anything in a car that was unusual?

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, I mean, just some of the worst stuff.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really yeah, yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Used like, like very soiled panties. Like, I think there was a, like, an actual mouse in one car that was so filled up with stuff. Yeah. Sometimes, like, somebody tried to keep their cats in the car, and we're like, you got to get your cats out before we, like, vacuum it and stuff. Like, we can't have live animals in here. Well, it's okay. Just they're in the back. Like. No, a lot of. Yeah, a lot of just gross stuff. The one of the worst things that I ever cleaned up was somebody spilled a gallon of nacho cheese on the back of a van.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No.

[Frank Jackson]

And they came in to detail it, and we. I had to carpet shampoo it, so I had to suck it up.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

And I don't know if you've just working outside and stuff in the elements, like, if you work out, like, mowing lawns or stuff, when later in the day you are coughing up dirt and stuff like that.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Later in that night, after I did the carpet shampooing of the cheese, I was coughing up and blowing cheese out of my nose.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No way.

[Frank Jackson]

Disgusting.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

I should have been wearing a mask, but I never done cheese before. I'm like, this is fine.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

And it was. Dude, it was so gross.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You live and learn. If you're gonna do cheese, wear the mask. Yeah. Now you know.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

So just sucking up, just tons of cheese and just, like, ringing out the mats and like, it was so gross.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And all the time, and all the while, you're thinking about the lifestyle of this person that has a van and each eats cheese nachos.

[Frank Jackson]

I think it was a weird catering thing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh.

[Frank Jackson]

You know, like one of those, like, they dispensaries, like, at like a gas station or something that has, like, the nozzle that you, like, put it under. I think it was one of those big boxes that had to have spilled because it was too much for, like, jars of, you know, that would have been like 10 jars of queso that somebody would have.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, when I think of the top 10 worst things for you that you could eat. Nacho cheese, movie butter.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Relish. At, like, a convenience store for a hot dog. Like, anything in that condiment section of the bad 7. 11.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

But I, I, I eat pretty bad on the road because that's.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You have no choice.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. And. And I love it too. So when I get back home, I try to, like, kind of cleanse out my system before I go back out on.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, right.

[Frank Jackson]

I think I had pizza, no joke. Probably six times. This last week on the road, where were you? I was in Nashville.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, yeah? Did you get any hot chicken?

[Frank Jackson]

I did Hattie Bees, baby.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really?

[Frank Jackson]

Is that the place? Oh, that's one of the spots. I love it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No, yeah, yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Ralphie May told me forever ago, like, he's like, you got. You got to try Hattie Bees. You got to get that. Whenever he's like. He's a staple here. You got to get it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And there's different levels, right, that you can. Order of hotness.

[Frank Jackson]

And I usually get hot.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You do?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, I usually get hot.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Damn.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I gotta try that. We had Zany's.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, Yeah. I. I directed Josh. Josh Wolf's special on. On Wednesday.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, amazing.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Guest]

Wow.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. So we did a couple shows and just.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Two shows.

[Frank Jackson]

Two shows. Yeah, yeah. And hoping to get it out in these next few months. But he did, like, a comedy music special there and killed. It was awesome.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I don't know. He did music.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, he does. I think he does it more like, on the road, like, with guitar and stuff like that. And then he's also been touring with his son, Jacob. Oh, that's a fun. It's a really cool, unique dynamic to see father and son do, like, jokes together and stuff on stage. So it's cool.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Weren't they just in Australia?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, they did a tour over there.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right. Wow, that's pretty cool. How many cameras did you have?

[Frank Jackson]

I think seven.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Nice.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that was cool. Yeah, it was a big business.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Something you want to do. You want to direct?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, I have been. I have been directing, and it's something that I want to do and continue to do. I just launched a production company.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Thousand percent.

[Frank Jackson]

A thousand percent. Avery Pearson.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Me and my buddy. Yeah, we did a. We had a cool ride up in LA Times recently that I saw that.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Congratulations.

[Frank Jackson]

Thanks, man.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, it was cool, huh?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, they. They just kind of, like, laid out some of the stuff that we're doing. Yeah, we just did this. We got hired to do an Einstein Bros. Bagels campaign that I directed.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. So we shot a. A comedy music video for them and made an ad out of it. And then, yeah, they chopped it up for their socials, and there's a couple spots that are airing, like, I think on Netflix and, like, around the Internet right now.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Nice.

[Frank Jackson]

So, yeah, we're hoping to do more of that. So Josh Wolf special, and then we have a Jack Jr special that we're shooting next month at the Alex Theater in Glendale. Jack Jr. Who's that comedian has. I mean, he's open like for. For Fluffies. Like he was on Arsenio's Netflix like introducing show. He's been around for a long time.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

His parents own the HAHA in North Hollywood.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

So what is your. When you direct a special, what do you like, what are you focused on in terms of taking the comedian and trying to capture them on the special?

[Frank Jackson]

So what we did with Josh Wolf was the concept was it's his. He's gonna call it the campfire special. So one of the things that we did with him was we brainstormed and we tried to think of what's the best way to capture a campfire vibe, like with the special and with the comedy and everything. And we thought of this idea for like the set design just to make it a little bit different. We bought these curtains and we put these little lights through. Like we poked holes through this curtain to make it look like a starry night behind him. So he's. We've got these great like tracking shots where he's like on a stool with his guitar and the audience is in lawn chairs. Like camping chairs.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Like the whole audience or just the front?

[Frank Jackson]

The front is like wrapped around him. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So just something a little bit different like where. Just to get him in space. And he had like some, some special guests that are on the show that. I don't know if he wants me to say or not yet, but he's got some fun special guests on this. Jack Jr. Josh Wolf.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No, no, you're just trying to shoehorn all.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, just all of them. Like in one spot. Yeah. But, yeah, so we're working on. We're doing a walkthrough of the Alex theater with Jack Jr. Later this week and we're trying to figure out like what's going to be kind of his, you know, kind of angle to bring that all together. And then as far as like directing, it's just like what makes the comic look good and just in, in a way where it's like in a not distracting way.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

You know.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right. Yeah, yeah. That's the thing is I just watched Louis CK Special. Hilarious. And you know, and he's obviously directing it himself. He's a director.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And he, he wanted this sort of like very cinema verite thing where he had a cameraman on stage that was getting within like 10ft of him, you know, and getting these moving shots. And. And at one point Louie just stops and he kept it in the special. He stops him and he goes, hey, man, you're too close. He goes, I can literally hear the director in your ear, in your headphones. And then the crowd laughed and Louis on the guy, and. And I love that he kept it in. It was so funny because, you know, you want it. You want it intimate, you want to get that really good shot. But at what cost?

[Frank Jackson]

At the same.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Well, it depends on, you know, some people are easily distracted. Like, I am. I can't. I'm not good at, like, I hyper notice everything that's happening in the room.

[Frank Jackson]

Very aware. I'm. I'm very. I mean, it's pros and cons. I'm very present always. But sometimes I'm like, oh, man, I'm like, I. I seeing and hearing everything in the room.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right. And it's almost like the. The Andy Kindler disease. I don't know if you ever see Andy Kendler work, but, like, he can't even get through a set because he has to. Like, if a person drops a drink, if somebody orders a drink, if somebody fucking yawns, like, he'll stop mid joke and deconstruct everything that's happening. And, you know, and that's kind of the point. But I find myself having to, like, really regulate how much I notice.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, I. It's. It's something I've had to work on hard over the years of choosing when I want to go off the rails, like, off of little things in the crowd. Because if I did it, I mean, I could easily do it the whole time if I wanted to. Just keep nitpicking little things. Especially, like in clubs that, like, it's a Friday night with, like, a late show or something. I mean, that could be the whole show if you want it to be. Because people get so rowdy and sloppy. And that's.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

To me, what a Friday night late show is, is I just walk on stage, knowing I'm usually. I'm looking at my set list. I got some new jokes. I'm kind of going through it. Friday night late show, I just walk on. Like, I just roll up my sleeves, like. All right, what do we. What are we doing here? Yeah, let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I wanted to ask you a couple things about, like, male friend. Well, actually, I want to. I want to talk. You just talked about, like, making decisions on stage. And I had. I was thinking driving over here, because yesterday I played in a golf tournament, and I played in a foursome with three billionaires. Like, literal billionaires.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Like, they Live in Cabo. They flew up on a private jet. They're staying at the Four Seasons, and they all are. You know, they're still working, but they don't need to be. You know, they're like. They're like maybe 60.

[Frank Jackson]

Do you feel out of place?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No, I don't care. I. I look down on them. I really do. I look down on them because I just realized, like, they probably gave their whole lives to get this successful, right? They've got everybody. They've got a power dynamic with everybody in their life where they're better than them. They have control, they have power, and that's the life they chose. And then. And then they'll even say to me, like, do you belong to a country club out here? I'm like, yeah, Penmar. The municipal place in Venice. It's nine holes, you know, like. Like, I don't care. Like, I. I never. When they.

[Frank Jackson]

Probably refreshing for them, honestly.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Well, that's. That's why I think it works because I play in these charity tournaments all the time, and they always pair me up with like three or four billionaires, and I. And I just make them laugh and. But I start. I started thinking about. None of them ever strikes me as super smart. And so I say to myself, like. Like, you know, like, they don't. They don't tell good jokes. Like, even a joke joke, they can't tell it right. Which I always find a sign of intelligence. If you can be funny. Sure. And they're not funny. So there's that. The outfits are bad, the golf game's not good. And I said, what makes these guys billionaires? And I. And I thought it's. It's consistency and focus. And I thought about. They just have always made good decisions. They've had the. The sort of like. Like, I think about how many decisions everybody makes in their life. And there's the big ones, like, should I buy a house? Should I refinance my mortgage? Should I, you know, go with this agent or this agent, like, whatever the big decisions are. But then you making how many other decision. Like, you decided to wear that hat today. You know, like, that was a decision you made, and you got to live with that.

[Frank Jackson]

I got to live with this for the rest of my life.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

People are going to watch this podcast.

[Frank Jackson]

Forever, and they're going to be like, why did he wear that hat?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Why did he trade a car? What kind of car? Was.

[Frank Jackson]

Was a Honda?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, all right. Well, then I. I guess.

[Frank Jackson]

It wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't as nice of A car as what you thought it was.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

So you got a pretty good deal actually.

[Frank Jackson]

I actually feel like I lost money on this.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But like the micro decisions that we constantly make, and I think about it with Stand up because in a one hour set, you probably make a thousand decisions.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Should I move to the right side of the stage? Should I honor this moment that's happening and break out of my set? Should I speak louder? Should I take the mic further away? You know, there's just so many little things that you say slow down. And, and I thought about, like, how much of our decision making is subconscious and how much of it do we sit down with a piece of paper and do pros and cons. And you know, it's, it's interesting because you, your life is the sum total of your micro and macro decisions that you make. And what is it that makes you good at making those?

[Frank Jackson]

Me or just us in general?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Well, let's talk about you. Like, do you think you were raised in a way that made you a confident, informed decision maker or did you have to kind of like retrain yourself?

[Frank Jackson]

I think it's a mixture of both. I was raised fortunately with like a family with a lot of love around. Right. Iowa, A lot of support in Kansas.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Kansas.

[Frank Jackson]

But financially, I think I have tried to learn on the sides of what to do and what not to do based on family stuff. You know, just something like what I've seen worked with parents and family over the years of like going in and out of debt and all that stuff. So I think it's a mixture of, of like support, but also like knowing what to learn from.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right. What they did right and what they did wrong.

[Frank Jackson]

Sure. And so I try to apply that to not only just financial stuff, but just like life stuff in general.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Like what I want, you know, the sum of decisions, what you're talking about. You're right. It's heavy when you look at it like that. It's like, well, you know, if you're at this point, at what age, then you're like, oh, well, I put myself here.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yes.

[Frank Jackson]

It's a series of decisions that have led me to this place right here, right now.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

So if you're in a good spot, then you feel pretty good about yourself. But if you're, if you're not feeling great at the moment, then. And you're like, oh man, what, what could I have done differently? And all that stuff so you regret. Right.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And that's the other thing I think that you could probably say about these Billionaires is that old axiom of, like, you know, mistakes are fine as long as you're learning from them. You know, like, don't look back unless you're looking back to learn.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, don't look back to beat yourself up. But if you can say to yourself, I'm on my third marriage, like, what. What's my part in this?

[Frank Jackson]

Sure. I saw. I mean, this is, like, adjacent to what we're talking about. But 50 Cent and Eminem, like, peak of their fame, like, putting out. I mean, they're still obviously, both huge in different ways. But 50 Cent was supposed to go on tour with Eminem when his daughter. Eminem's daughter Haley was very young, and they were gonna make so much money doing an Eminem and 50 Cent tour. And Eminem said he wouldn't do it. And he's like, why? He's like, I don't want to see my daughter, like, just grow up without me.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

And 50 Cent said it did not hit him until he could never understand. For years and years, it didn't hit him until he went to Eminem's daughter's wedding. And then he's like, oh, it's already here.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right?

[Frank Jackson]

Like, that's. You know, people make their choices of, like, you know, the sum of decisions, like, could have made millions and millions here, but, like, no, he decided to make millions in a different way so he could still be, like, in his daughter's life.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. I look at Joey Diaz because he had. You know, he was in a bad place when his. When his first daughter was born, and he has regrets about not being in her life, and I think they don't have a good relationship. Then he had another daughter about, what, is she, about eight now?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And that guy doesn't tour. He moved to New Jersey. He's friends with his neighbors. He goes to her practices, and.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, and it's like, you know, there's the conventional decision making where, yeah, I can play percentages on every decision that I make, you know, or I can sort of like, you know, you look at people that make it in a different. Like a weird Al Yankovic who came up when, you know, musical comedy was looked down on and people. He was a nerd, and. And he just went, no Hawaiian shirt, big glasses.

[Frank Jackson]

This.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

This is me.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And then it all works out. I mean, there's so many different people that find their own way, but the confidence to make that decision based on who you are and honoring that, that's a hard decision to make. For some people. And I think failure is often, when I look at some people that are failing, I go, because you're doing everything that just worked. You're looking at, you know, oh, viral videos where I do this. Okay. Yeah. But that was. That was last year.

[Frank Jackson]

That worked for that person.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right? Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And. And they're constantly beating themselves up because, well, I'm doing it and they're doing it, but it works, you know? Well, you got to figure out what your thing is. But how do you. How do you know that? And then how do you have the confidence to make that decision? And you're kind of doing that. You do your own thing.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. I've been fortunate to be a part of a lot of cool shows over the years in la.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

And one of the things that I feel good about is me knowing when I need to move on from something.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

You know, I've been a part of a lot. You walk off shows.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Podcast right now.

[Frank Jackson]

The best closer to a podcast. And I know when to be done with something. And you're like, hey, that's our producers.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You got six minutes left, man.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. Wait, wait.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. So you walked away from what?

[Frank Jackson]

I mean, just over the years. So, like, I used to be a part of Roast Battle, and we had an amazing run with that with, like, the Wave. We did three seasons on Comedy Central with that.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

And we all kind of, like me, Jamar, Neighbors, and Willie Hunter, we knew when it was like, we were. It was our time to, like, for the show to evolve without us. The most recent one being when Kill Tony moved to Austin, that ended up being, for me, a great way for me to really reinvent, like, people focusing on what I do, not just being associated with the band. And I love being associated with Kill Tony and, like, all the years that I had with it. But to be seen as just a saxophone player and something. There's people who still like you do comedy because they only see you through a certain lens that is being presented to them. So with my show, Stand up on the Spot, Joe was. Rogan was a big fan of doing the show and did it a lot in la, but where he and I were saw it differently. He didn't think that the show should be filmed at all where I saw it as its own art form. I'm like, it's not. It's like jazz. It's like. It's literally. It's his own thing. It's not stand up, but, like, it's stand up on the spot. You're riffing Like, I think it should be filmed because true comedy fans love to see how the brains work of comedians, stuff like that. So I also.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Comedians aren't burning the material.

[Frank Jackson]

Exactly.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Not from their act.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, it's like a win win.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

It's a display of like, them being funny, like, you know, just like a podcast, like, but on stage. That's how I look at it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

So when Joe moved to Austin and Tony moved to Austin, I was like, okay, I'm not doing Kill Tony more. I can focus really on filming Stand up on the Spot more. And that's been awesome. And that's been growing, like, over, over time. We're at like, like almost150,000 subscribers on stand up.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's amazing. Wow.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, that's in the course of like the last few years of like honing in on that and really doing that. And if Joe wouldn't have moved to Austin, I probably just, I, I'm, I'm a fan of Joe. I would have kept having him on the show. I'm like, yeah, we don't need to film it, you know, but it forced me to be like, okay, like, let's do the thing. And it was a weird blessing in disguise when I started, like, really putting it all in on that. So. And then with like the Comedy Jam with Josh admires, I was honored to be a part of that for like four or five years as well. And I was, I kept being seen as, you know, a saxophonist and like this, this hype man character that was on the show and people were not focusing on my stand up and stuff like that. And I eventually I was like, all love, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna. And we talked about it and I was like, I think it's time. I was like, you don't need a, a sidekick anymore.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, Right.

[Frank Jackson]

You're doing this like you are. Josh Adamires is the Comedy Jam.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

So I've tried to be selective of when to know when it's time to wrap up.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. I mean, it really is hard. Like, I have a social media person that helps me out and she's like, you know, people know you as a podcaster because I've always put up clips on social media from my podcast. I'm rarely from my stand up.

[Frank Jackson]

Right.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And she's like, there's a lot of people that. She's like, it's going to take time. We're going to have to introduce and which is funny because I've been doing stand up for 35 years, so there are obviously people that know me from that, but, like, not on social media as much as just, like, word of mouth. People know me. And so. So I've been, like, really trying to push that out. And I think it's even true with guys that open for big acts. Oh, they don't break out of that. You would think. Okay, so this person's going in front of 5,000 people four night. Four or five nights a week, year round, they're going to be able to come back to Denver and draw a crowd. Does not translate.

[Frank Jackson]

I know. I heard. I forget who coined the term of satellite comic. And it's the comics that are always surrounding the big comic, but they never do their own thing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

And that's. That's. That's a scary place to get pigeonholed into.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

It's, like, it's cool to do that stuff. Obviously, we all. We all want to open for bigger comics at these bigger venues and stuff, but, like, how do you parlay that into your own thing?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Frank Jackson]

And that's, you know, that's always the goal with, like, these different, like, shows I've been a part of over time. Like, when it's, oh, I feel like I've. I've done my service of the show and, like, vice versa. I'm like, okay, what's the next thing that I can, you know.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yes.

[Frank Jackson]

Kind of do myself that, like, is. Is my vehicle and not just putting bricks on somebody else's house.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Because that person can also turn on you. You know, that happens all the time. You know, I've. I've been part of different. I was. I was never a Satellite comic, but, I mean, I did Stern like, 50 times. And then we had a falling out, and it just went away. And, like, I didn't. I never put all my eggs in that basket. I never, like, toured with the other Stern comics or anything like that, you know, and so when it went away, I just, you know, moved on to whatever Chelsea lately or whatever the next thing was. And then me and Chelsea had to find a. I started, like, burning every.

[Frank Jackson]

Bridge, but my hat slowly starts going lower over my face.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Right, right. And then also with. With the transition from Kill Tony, you came out of the closet, which was weird because you're married with a child.

[Frank Jackson]

I know. That was the biggest shock to people.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. And the hat was a big part of it.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. I said, I'm gay and I wear hats now.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

When did you tell your wife she's.

[Frank Jackson]

Going to see this episode?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, this is it. This is the moment.

[Frank Jackson]

Label this episode. Jeremiah comes out gay and in a hat.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Do you want it?

[Frank Jackson]

I think it'll get some clicks.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Do you want to talk to camera to wife?

[Frank Jackson]

Hey, I know you knew that I was gay, but I also like hats, too.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I think one definitely leads to the other.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. This is a gateway. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

All right, it's time for fastballs with fits.

[Frank Jackson]

Okay.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Who's your best male friendship?

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, man.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It's funny when you're young, you have. You could say it like that. And then you get older and you're married and.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. My buddy. One of the buddies that comes to mind is my buddy Chris McMillan, who I work very closely with. He's my DP on stand up on the Spot and. And. And this. With this production company, stuff like that. We talk all the time and are very close and then. But there's. I mean, there's.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

There's that. You don't tell anybody else.

[Frank Jackson]

I'm pretty guarded. Yeah. With that stuff.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I keep very Midwestern.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. I keep a lot of stuff close to the chest.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Like, I got upset with a buddy the other day when I was venting about something and his wife was in the background. I was like, dude, you got to tell me this before.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I'm like, oh, no.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. I'm not a fan of that.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's not cool at all, dude.

[Frank Jackson]

Right. I'm like, bro. Like, he's like. I said. I was, like, trying to be polite. I was like, this and this and this. And then he's like, well, you can tell her. She's right here. I'm like, what, though?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, my God.

[Frank Jackson]

I was like, I'll talk to you later, dude.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No, you start the call with, I'm here with my wife.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Or, hey, you're on speaker in the exact. With. So.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right, right away. Yes.

[Frank Jackson]

So I got heated about that. Like, that kind of stuff.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

And he's a close buddy.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

All right.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I don't like that.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Who's the worst opener that you ever ended up with on the road?

[Frank Jackson]

I mean, I'm not. I definitely. I'm not going to remember their name, but I had a show that was the first show back during COVID that there were. It was at Raleigh's Charlie Good Nights, huh? Where we had legitimately seven people in the crowd.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Huh.

[Frank Jackson]

People are walking by being like, is this open? We don't. Literally nobody knows that there's a show going on. Like, it's so brand new to the, like, outside of COVID I flew from LA To Raleigh, North Carolina, while my wife is pregnant with our firstborn. And I'm just like. Like, you know, trying to get some work, that kind of a thing. This opener makes the crowd feel bad about how there's only seven of them.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, never do that.

[Frank Jackson]

I said, hey, man, I don't give notes to comics.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

But I said, I'm gonna tell you something that you should never, ever do again. And it's what you just did on my show. I said, why are you making the seven people that are here feel weird or bad about them being the only ones here? They're the ones who got the tickets.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They showed up.

[Frank Jackson]

They showed up for us. Why are you making them feel bad? I said, don't ever do that again.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

I never. You know, I'm always. I. I try to be very easy going with the. The comics I always work with, but I'm like, yo, dude, never again.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, never ever do that again. And don't even tell them they're bad. If you're. If you're the opener, you never say, well, you guys suck. Oh, well, now they've identified as sucking.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. Then now they've lost faith in the show.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yep.

[Frank Jackson]

And now I'm in a giant hole for the hour that I got to do.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right. Say I suck. I'm sucking today. Not. You're sucking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, okay. You're not feeling this. Whatever. You're not feeling me. Figure it out.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

What's the closest you ever got to a fist fight on stage?

[Frank Jackson]

I have been hit a couple different times in different ways. Hit or pushed.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been nut tapped. I've been pushed. I've been.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

The nut tap was on video, wasn't it?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got. Yeah. I've had weird altercations with people where there was one guy who started sweating who I thought was going to deck me when I got too close to him. I could tell that he was about to clock me. And I was like, okay, you know. Yeah, because I. You know, I. I riff a lot. I get silly. I sometimes would go into the crowd, and some people just are not with being a part of the show, right. And this dude, like, I was doing this dumb, like, character thing where I was, like, getting really close in his face. He said into the mic, he goes, you have no idea how bad I.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Want to hit you right now.

[Frank Jackson]

And I was like, okay. And everybody heard it in the mic, and I was like, okay, it's on to the next person. Like, I, I was like this dude. Like, about like, even the security was like, dude, you almost got decked. You got to be careful. Like, I know that one was on me.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. And you kind of. You'd have video of the assault and the judge would go, that was your fault.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

He provoked you.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right, right.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah. The other, the other ones where I've been hit on stage, I wasn't, you know, I feel like they kind of came after me, but.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Uhhuh.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right. Well, something about you.

[Frank Jackson]

Some. Something about this face and this hat.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Have you ever not finished a set on stage?

[Frank Jackson]

No. Saw through.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Gotta do it.

[Frank Jackson]

Gotta do it. Even if I absolutely despise the crowd. Yeah. I will finish.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yep.

[Frank Jackson]

Sometimes I will make that crowd pay.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Sure.

[Frank Jackson]

Sometimes I'll be like, oh, you didn't like that? Get ready for this four minute act out. I'm gonna do.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

You don't like my, my sense of humor? Guess what? You're at least gonna remember how much you hate me by the end of the night.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's right. Yeah.

[Frank Jackson]

Better to be memorable than bland.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I have four abortion jokes, and if the crowd's good, I'll only do two of them.

[Frank Jackson]

You'll abort the other ones. You will see them go to term.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

In some states you're not allowed to. You have to do all four.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And then finally I'll ask you, what's the hackiest bit that you've ever done?

[Frank Jackson]

I had a bit that I love.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You went right into it. You know how many comics sit there and go, I don't know. I never really.

[Guest]

I don't think I ever had a hacking.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, fuck off.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, no. I'll. I'll him and ha around who I'm close with. But I, I, but I will. I know exactly what is considered super hacking that I used to do. Or I'm like, that I still close with. I just bit. And I would do this bit where it was like, I had a couple different bits where I would hump the stool and it would freaking destroy.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yep.

[Frank Jackson]

And I had this bit where I would take a stool down to the ground and just different positions just. And it would like. People loved it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yep.

[Frank Jackson]

You know?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. I think in the 80s, the MC used to have to come up with a rag and wipe the stool down between comedians because everybody was humping this.

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

All right, listen, man. What a blast, dude.

[Frank Jackson]

Thank you so much for having.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Looking forward to having you on. It's always great.

[Frank Jackson]

You're the best and you're you're coming up on a. A stand up on shooting.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I can't wait to do it. I'm coming in with my brother who I was just saying, like, don't ever bring somebody to a show. But my brother said to me, he's come, I'm bringing. I'm flying him out for his 60th birthday and he's gonna spend like a week. And he goes, you know what I really love is coming to the clubs with you and just hanging out with the comics and all that. He goes, I know you hate that. I know you don't do that, but it's my birthday. And so I said, oh, God. And then you asked me to do your show and I said, you know what? That one will be fun because it's like a party. That for sure. Yeah. So, yeah, he's gonna come down.

[Frank Jackson]

Well, he's gonna have fun. Yeah, Bring him back to the green room.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I don't know about that.

[Frank Jackson]

I'll give him the royal treatment.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Really?

[Frank Jackson]

Of course, dude. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a birthday and that's what he asked for. He's getting it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

All right, good.

[Frank Jackson]

I love it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

The special. The newest special is called Daddy on YouTube. There's also one called Family Reunion on Amazon Prime. The podcast is called what Trailer Tales.

[Frank Jackson]

And Stand up on the Spot. I do. I do a weekly podcast with Chelsea Lynn and Libby Higgins. That's super fun.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Great Tour dates coming up in April 18th and 19th at the Blue Note in Hawaii. Honolulu. April 25th at the Grand Theater in Tracy, California. Is that right?

[Frank Jackson]

These are not.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, no, no. This is Caroline Ray's dates if she gets sick. All right, if Caroline Ray dies in the next week, then.

[Frank Jackson]

Then I guess I'm filling in for those dates.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's so hilarious. I'll be in Tacoma, Washington, June 27th and 28th. Tyler, Texas, July 18th and 19th, Kansas City, Springfield, Missouri.

[Frank Jackson]

Austin, Texas. And then, yeah, some more dates.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Can I suggest you put those dates on your website?

[Frank Jackson]

They should be on there. Maybe not. Okay, well. And you know, that's who I can blame for the tickets not moving. Me. Not putting the dates on the site.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Well, they're out there now. You heard it, America. He's going to be there in the hat.

[Frank Jackson]

Oh, wait a second.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's my hat. That's my hat. They made me wear this hat.

[Frank Jackson]

They made me.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

They put this hat on me.

[Frank Jackson]

That's the real reason.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

His hat.

[Guest]

He walked in here with it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I walked in with a green hat.

[Guest]

And. Is that the Almond Brothers in your shirt?

[Frank Jackson]

Beatles.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh Jesus. Really?

[Frank Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh yeah. Now I see in that era.

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