Jim Norton Episode 1127

Summary

Fitzdog Radio
Episode 1127: Jim Norton
Release Date: February 11, 2026
Host: Greg Fitzsimmons
Guest: Jim Norton

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Greg Fitzsimmons reunites with legendary comedian and friend Jim Norton for a candid, hilarious, and unabashedly honest conversation. The two reflect on their parallel journeys from the New York open mic scene to comedy stardom, exploring comedy’s evolving landscape, cancel culture, political polarization, personal growth, and the fine art of finding your comedic voice. Jim opens up about marriage, sobriety, hell gigs, and encountering celebrity, all served with the duo’s trademark dark wit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedy, Gym Shame, and Beverage Rituals

• Jim and Greg kick things off discussing the compulsions that replace addiction, with Norton noting, “Anything oral. I am addicted to coffee. Shoving food to my face. There’s always got to be a beverage. I don’t like being parched.” (13:59)
• Norton shares his discomfort at the jiujitsu gym:
  “I am by far the biggest lump of shit in the entire building,” he admits. There’s humility, but also a lesson in non-judgmental camaraderie. (14:45)
• Fitzsimmons humorously laments California’s anti-straw culture, and Jim deadpans: “I do [use straws] specifically because I hate turtles.” (16:38)

2. Woke Culture, Comedy Censorship, and Political Polarization

• The conversation shifts to the persistence of “woke” tendencies and identity politics, especially in LA. “The Republicans are all on point...the fucking libs trying to throw a parade,” Greg observes of party messaging. (16:58)
• Jim is critical of both sides:
  “As annoying as conservatives are, and they also stink. But liberals will do this thing...the needling and the harping and the scolding...” (17:47)
• They discuss comics losing gigs over jokes (“They just canceled six sold out shows because they didn’t like his bit because he’s conservative and his jokes are really funny.” – Jim, 19:43), offense culture, and shifting censorship.

Notable Quotes:

• “Finding that line means crossing that line.” – Greg, on the Club Cellar’s no-phone policy (22:44)
• “Or standing there until the line catches up. Sometimes...Because again, this guy...when I watched, he did a bit about a trans… I laughed. Who the fuck cares the point of view it comes from if the jokes are good, just enjoy them.” – Jim, 22:50

3. Origin Stories: Comedy Roots and Finding Your Voice

• Both recall their early days in NYC with contemporaries like Todd Barry, Jeff Ross, Sarah Silverman: “We were doing open mics together...that was exactly our class.” – Greg (39:21)
• Jim’s evolution: “You didn’t have it right away when we were starting out, you didn’t have it.” – Greg.
  “No, high energy, happy to be there. It’s sickening.” – Jim (40:09)
• Norton: “Everyone’s worried about...finding who you are. Just get rid of all the shit you’re not. And whoever you are shows up.” (40:20)  

4. Marriage, Immigration, and Life Offstage

• Jim shares the saga of marrying his Norwegian wife and her prolonged struggle to enter the US due to an old cannabis ticket. The process took five years, giving Jim a unique perspective on immigration bureaucracy:
  “We did it legally, and it was very frustrating. It’s red tape. It’s bureaucracy. It stinks. I get why people want to cut the line.” (36:28)
• On married life:
  “I sometimes miss my old life, which was perverted and isolated. So I forget how lonely I was...after you come, you’re back in the hotel by yourself and you want to blow your brains out.” (37:54)

5. Reflecting on Comedy Legends

• The pair digress into British and Irish comics’ relative obscurity in the US, pondering cultural barriers, and spend time showering praise on George Carlin (“Nick [DiPaolo]’s joke writing—it’s literally completely fat free.” – Jim, 23:28) and Joan Rivers.
• Jim reminisces, “Joan Rivers...she made me nervous. I was never scared of meeting comedians, but she’s the only one who I was afraid of.” (49:41)
• Greg recounts being interviewed by Joan: “I got under the covers of a bed with Joan Rivers and she interviewed me.” (49:32)

6. Celebrity Encounters & Social Awkwardness

• Hilarious confessions about awkwardness with celebrities:
  “I have no traction with famous people.” – Greg (51:10)
  “Whenever I have an emotion I want someone to feel towards me, it puts pressure on how I interact...my goal is not to be myself, it’s to get them to feel a certain way.” – Jim (52:44)
• Jim recalls meeting De Niro, reflects on why some comics move effortlessly among VIPs while others freeze up.
• “We do want something from them. Not material things...but, I want them to respect me or like me as an equal...I don’t feel like I’m admirable.” – Jim (54:01)

7. Politics, Tribalism, and the Illusion of Change

• The discussion broadens to “tribal” polarization and performative political correctness.
  “The whole country is just filled with unreasonable twats.” – Jim, on right and left extremes (60:53)
• Both agree that most people’s politics are shaped by family and environment more than anything else:
  “That’s 97% of how people...that’s what their opinions are.” – Greg (62:57)
• Jim on parents: “They were, like with my life, very accepting. Very. And not in a fake way, but like, yeah, we love you. We don’t care who you...And they’ve never had that type of social...force.” (63:09)

8. US Politics & Political Performance

• The hosts roast political “losing moments” (Jeb Bush’s ‘please clap,’ Dukakis in a tank, etc.), and marvel at how leaders like Clinton, Obama, Trump exude magnetic “alpha” energy.
  “There’s something about a guy who is able to convince 100 million people to vote...who can alpha everybody in the room.” – Jim (57:16)
• Trump’s persona: “He was unscoldable. And I wish more guys were like that.” – Jim (60:11)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Comedy Censorship & PC Culture:
  “I have developed kind of an even newer loathing for [progressives].” – Jim, (22:22)

• On Comedy Legends:
  “Joan Rivers is top five. I think she’s top fucking five and she never gets mentioned in the top ten.” – Jim, (47:51)

• On Personal Growth in Comedy:
  “Get rid of all the shit you’re not, and whoever you are shows up.” – Jim, (40:20) “Talking about personal or embarrassing things made the other comics laugh...so that’s a good direction.” (40:59)

• On Life as an Outsider in Hollywood:
  “I have no traction with famous people.” – Greg, (51:10)
  “I don’t feel like I’m admirable.” – Jim, (54:01)

• On Cancel Culture and Friendship:
  “How could you be friends with that guy? He said that. I immediately lose respect for the person asking that.” – Jim, (71:42) “I’ve known Joe [Rogan] for 35 years...what, do you go to work and find a guy who you disagree with and make a fucking scene at work?” – Greg, (72:06)

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Notable Stories & Segments

The Heckler Incident (Greg in Sacramento)

• Greg shares a classic comedy war story, dealing with a disruptive audience member and the catharsis of ejection:
  “There is a euphoria that comes across a crowd when a heckler has been removed...You used to [have power] when I was 16...but guess what? It’s my comeuppance.” (01:18-10:00)

Getting in the Epstein Files

• Jim jokes about his name being in the Epstein files due to UFC Unfiltered:
  “I was so happy because I really hate being excluded. Didn’t say anything about me, but still...I was there.” (19:12)

Hack Court

• In a nostalgic riff, Jim describes “Hack Court,” where comics would call out each other’s hack material and have to defend it before peers like Keith Robinson, Colin Quinn, Voss, and young Kevin Hart. “Very rarely did you win in hack court. Very high conviction.” (87:15)

The “Fastballs with Fitz” Segment (74:00+)

A rapid-fire, confessional Q&A revealing:

• Jim’s brushes with arrest (the infamous Opie & Anthony voyuer bus, 74:10)
• Uncommonly young oral virginity (“I was about five. A bully who I used to...I used to suck his dick in the hallway.” – Jim, 76:32)
• Adventures at the Porn Awards with Ron Jeremy (“He complimented my penis. He said, ‘You got a nice piece.’”—Jim, 80:27)
• Comedy bombs and walking offstage
• Perspective on apologies and the satisfaction (and conflict) of program amends.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 13:58 — Jim Norton joins, beverage and gym shame banter
• 16:38 — Banter on LA wokeness, straws, and turtles
• 18:50 — Epstein file/Opie & Anthony stories
• 22:44 — Club Cellar, comedy lines, censorship
• 39:21 — NY comedy roots, Norton finds his voice
• 36:08–37:54 — Jim describes his marriage/immigration journey
• 47:51 — Joan Rivers discussion
• 49:27 — Greg’s “In Bed with Joan” story
• 51:10–54:44 — Social awkwardness with celebrities
• 60:53 — Jim’s take on US politics, “unreasonable twats”
• 72:06 — Rogan, Cancel Culture, and DM blowback
• 74:00 — “Fastballs with Fitz” rapid-fire Q&A

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Tone & Language

As expected from these two, the conversation is raw, irreverent, self-deprecating, and honest to a fault, with dark humor and bits of poignant vulnerability.

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Summary

This episode of Fitzdog Radio is a comic masterclass in honesty, nostalgia, and the complex reality of the stand-up life, both on and off stage. Greg Fitzsimmons and Jim Norton dissect contemporary culture, comedy’s shifting boundaries, and the business of being authentic—peppering in plenty of stories from the road and their own evolving lives. Their affectionate banter makes this a must-listen (and must-read!) for fans of real talk and real comedy.

Highly recommended: Jim Norton’s special “Unconceivable,” free on YouTube.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

5:00Am I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius Live Fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail] we heard you.

[Jim Norton]

Nine years of bring back the snack.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wrap and you've won.

[Jim Norton]

But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the hot honey snack wrap. Now you've really won.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Go to McDonald's and get it while.

[Jim Norton]

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[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Hey America, Canada, Ireland. Those are my three biggest you can look on your hosts, people that host your podcast and you can look at the numbers of where people listen to and it's like 85% US and it's like 9 or 10% Canada. So Canada, I gotta come see you more. I'm coming to Vancouver in the fall but love it. I was just in Sacramento this past weekend. It was crazy great. First of all going on the road is rough and there's with some exceptions I do not take connecting flights on my gigs because that means I got to come in a night early so that I don't miss the show. It takes a whole fucking day to travel each direction. You're one of the legs is always going to be delayed anyway so but a lot of cross country trips and it's so nice I flew to Sacramento, one hour flight, nice hotel, great room. Like literally one of these magic rooms where people just laugh a lot for whatever reason. Maybe it's whatever's going on in Sacramento. These people need to laugh and so much fun until the Saturday night, the last show of the weekend and first of all most of the shows sold out. So thanks for coming out. I did Rogan last week and so I think getting and I'm surprised because he doesn't promote your show until the end of the third hour. And I am shocked how many people are still listening at that point. But anyway, so the shows sell out, but there's this woman who just won't shut the fuck up. She is relentless. She's this kind of hot blonde chick, and she's with her boyfriend and just one of those people that cannot see the center of attention to somebody else for an hour and a half. And so I tell her politely to be quiet. I tell her more harshly to be quiet. The door guys come over and tell her to shut the fuck up. And then she keeps going. So now I. I blew her up. I literally. The key is you make sure that the crowd hates her. You make sure that they see that she's disrupting the show. She's making it unpleasant for everybody around her. And you make her the enemy. That's the key. Divide her from the rest of the crowd, put a big red circle around her, and then you. Then I explain to her the way the world sees her, which she's not used to hearing because she's a hot blonde chick. Then I go in for the boyfriend. I make eye contact with the boyfriend. I tell him she's a problem. I get him. He. I get him to the. Where he's leaning away from her and he's shaking his head when I said, is it her? And he shakes. So now she's got nobody. She's all alone, and things are about to get hot. So now I just crawl inside her brain and I start explaining to her why she is the way she is. The psychodynamics of being a hot chick at Sacramento who's not that intelligent. So she snaps and she stands up and she calls me a piece of shit. And then she whips her drink at me, which, thank God it didn't reach the stage, but it got all over the guy in front of her. So now he whips around and he's yelling at her. The bouncer comes over. She's getting pulled out of the club. The crowd is cheering. And then they grab her boyfriend, this poor bastard that probably goes through this shit all the time with her. And they force him to stand at the bar and. And pay the check, which took like a minute. A minute of the crowd yelling at them. And then they took her out. And there is a euphoria that comes around, that comes across a crowd when a problem has been thrown out, when it. When a heckler has been removed. And you. And you just say, God, thank God she's gone. The place erupts. And then the rest of Your show, you just. It's such a nice boost. I mean, I didn't like having a drink thrown at me and it. The whole energy was weird, but, you know, that's what happened there. And it just feels good. And, you know, maybe some of it is some unresolved high school rejection that I got from some hot chicks. And now I'm the guy with the mic. I'm the guy everyone's playing. I'm the alpha, baby. You're not taking that shit from me. You used to. When I was 16 with acne and I weighed 112 pounds and I was pasty white with freckles and my mom bought me bad clothes because she was cheap. Yeah, you had me then. But guess what? It's my comeuppance. Shout out to the Seattle Seahawks. Congratulations. You truly won this year. You were the best team in the league. You deserved it. Congrats to Adam Ray, who I'm sure is dressing up as Dr. Phil and jumping up and down. Or I just did Kill Tony. Oh, God. I did Kill Tony with Adam Ray. It just came out yesterday and Sal Volcano was on the show. And early on I did a joke. Like, literally in the first 10 minutes, I did a joke that tanked. I mean, it bombed. Nothing. And then I kind of went into a shame spiral. First of all, adam Ray as Dr. Phil is a big presence in the room. And then Sal is also a big deal. And so I got into. And I'm not like this. I'm usually like, I love Kill Tony, but I shut down. I didn't say shit. Towards the end of the show, I finally got. I got in like three or four good jokes at the end of the show, but it was a good hour where the Fitz dog was just sitting there. And I don't look at comments, but I do have a Google alert on my name. And one some Reddit thread popped up and was like, what the fuck is going on with Greg Fitzsimmons? I will not read the comments. But was not my finest hour on Kill Tony. So don't watch it unless you love. If you love Adam Ray and Sal, go watch it. But so don't expect a lot from me this week. What Elliot says. Super Bowl. It was a snooze. The game was a snooze. It was awful. Bad Bunny, I thought was very visually entertaining. It was interesting. It was a big news story, so I was glad to see it went off without a hitch. Nobody fucking blew themselves up. And then you had Kid Rock did his show with Three people I've never heard of and he got busted lip syncing. But I guess, I guess about 3 million people tuned into that or 4 million and I think about 10 times that were watching Bad Bunnies, so that's that. But I think it would have been fun to have the two of them on the field together. The Puerto Ricans and the rednecks. And it would be like west side Story with the Sharks and the Jets. That would be the halftime show. Just a battle, just a drunken knife fight that would have got the ratings up. Anyway, let's get to it. I got a great guest today, so I don't want to talk for very long. It's already been nine minutes. How did that happen? I got some cool videos have gotten traction in the last couple weeks. The Jay Moore video has like 4 million views. And then I did a bunch with Matt McCusker that are good. Also, check out Sunday papers. We got a new look. We got a brand new look. Revisit Sunday papers if you're not already watching. Also, I want to bring your attention to Philadelphia this weekend. Helium comedy club, February 13 through 15. Lexington, Kentucky, February 19 through 21. Then I'll be in Houston, Fort Worth, Janesville, Bakersfield, coming to Boston and Maine in the spring. Go to fitzdog.com and get some tickets. Also, I want to talk to you about your bedroom. How are you sleeping? How's your body heat? Some people run hot. I run cold. I need warmth. My wife runs hot. She's always got a leg hanging out of the bed. Well, here's a solution right here. Miracle made bedding makes you stay comfortable all night long. They've got this NASA inspired NASA. Not Nassau in the Bahamas because you don't wear sheets there. NASA, the rocket company. Silver infused fabric. So it adjusts to you, regulates the body temperature. Also it's got because of this silver infused fabric. Normally there's a lot of bacteria in sheets. They say more than a toilet seat. And don't get me wrong, I spent many nights sleeping on my toilet seat in college. But you're in bed, you want to be clean. You want to wash your sheets less, which you can do with them. And you're going to be in your bed a lot. You're in your bed like depending on what medications you're on, six hours to 19 hours a day, you are in there. So stay cleaner. And 99.7% of bacterial growth is prevented. So it also feels amazing. Like sometimes I stay in really good hotels. I stay in the four Seasons when I'M opening for guys that have been more successful than I have been and I feel like I'm in a Four Seasons bed. Trust me, they sent me a set of sheets. I've been wearing them, I've been sleeping on them and I really feel the difference. So upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest. Go to try Miracle.com fitzdog to try Miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40% and when you use promo code fitzdog, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set. That's trymiracle.com fitzdog code fitzdog@ checkout. Thank you to Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. Okay, my guest today, you know him from everything. You know him from tough crowd. You know him from Opie and Anthony. He had his own show on Sirius XM for a bunch of years. He's got his own podcast now. What the hell is it called? Well, there's UFC Unfiltered and then Jim Norton can't save you. Also, I wrote on a show called Lucky Louie on HBO with Louis CK and he was one of the stars of that and he was really fucking good. Anyways, a dear friend. We started together in New York. We have been brothers for many years. So happy to have him on. So sit back, crack a beer and enjoy my chat with the great Jim Norton. My guest, Jim Norton is here. He's very into beverages. You're one of those guys that's been sober for so long that you've got. You're probably like a coffee addict.

[Jim Norton]

Yep.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Anything. Anything oral. I am addicted to coffee. Shoving food to my face. There's always got to be a beverage. I don't like being parched.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes. And I like, I'm, I'm like scientific with my coffee. 8:30, I wake up. 8:30 coffee, noon coffee, 3:00pm coffee.

[Jim Norton]

Wow.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Going early today because you're here and I want to kind of, you know, have a little extra energy.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Um, I, I like to have it. I usually I'll go to the gym first, but the first thing I do is I get up 9:45, go to the gym, and then after that I'll have. I don't allow myself anything beforehand. I like to just kind of go in with no food or anything.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Is it the kind of a gym where you feel comfortable and this is not insulting you?

[Jim Norton]

Sure. I would hope not.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, but it's the kind of gym where you can go and you can feel comfortable with your body?

[Jim Norton]

No, there's no gym where I would feel comfortable with my body. It's a jiu jitsu gym. I feel I'm increasingly humiliated every day. Yeah, it's Enzo Gracie's. I'm always embarrassed by my body. I am by far the biggest lump of shit in the entire building.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Does that motivate you? Does the shame motivate you?

[Jim Norton]

Yes and no. Because, again, I'll never be what any of them are. But none of them care. Like, they really don't care. Like, it's funny when. When the guys are in such good shape and they're all so dangerous. Like me just kind of coming in and taking private lessons. There's no ego with those guys because they know how good they are.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

So you don't feel any sense of.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You'Re not challenging them?

[Jim Norton]

Zero. Like, they're very supportive and nice.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Is that your nickname at the gym?

[Jim Norton]

What's that?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Zero.

[Jim Norton]

Zero. No. Zilch. Zero. Zilch sounded like a little bit cooler. Zero sounded too humiliating and childhood like.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So are you. What do they call it when you grapple with. When you roll, you roll. You roll with me?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, with. With. With the guy who's teaching. He's a black belt, so. So he's. Obviously, he'll do things like he'll choke, but then lighten. So I know he submitted me if he want. Keep going.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Knowing you, you probably try to get choked.

[Jim Norton]

I do, I do. I'm like, just ignore that tent. It happened. It's a blood flow issue.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I've never done that. I feel like I'm too old. You don't get injured rolling around like that. You do.

[Jim Norton]

I mean. I mean, I'm in my 50s. I wasn't. I'm definitely too old to compete. And the. The injuries you'll get is like. You'll fall on your arm. Wrong. I'm always kind of sore. Like, my. My. My rotator cuff is up. Like. But again, so what. I mean, I like doing it and, you know, it is really great. It's the best exercise I've ever done in my life.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, I've heard that.

[Jim Norton]

Love it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, anytime you're. Yeah, please, we have coffees here. Thank you.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you very much. Oh, thank you. Do you have a straw?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, thank you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Jesus. This is la, man. We don't do straws.

[Jim Norton]

I know, but I do them specifically because I hate turtles. Thank you very much. I'm not going to spill coffee on my shirt because some dickhead turtle doesn't know how to avoid it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I want to Get a teacher with a turtle with a straw in his mouth drinking a coffee.

[Jim Norton]

Exactly. They're a part of the problem, too. Fuck them.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No, LA is really. It really is still fucking crazy. You know, like the, the whole woke thing and the DEI thing, like, that's sort of gotten for the most of the country. It's. It's settled down. But here it's still like, the Democrats are never going to organize against the Republicans because the Republicans are all on point. They figure out here's the message in a sentence on any topic. And then you got the fucking libs trying to throw a parade. But there's always, like, the lesbians don't think the black women should call themselves this. And you know, if you're anti abortion, you can't march at the women's march. And. And it splinters and they lose steam and they think a giant march changes anything.

[Jim Norton]

This is why they drive me crazy. Because, like, as annoying as conservatives are, and they also stink. But liberals will do this thing. Like, it's the. The needling and the harping and the scolding and the. There's a comic. He's a funny comic, too. I wish I could remember his name.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Nick DePaolo.

[Jim Norton]

No, I've heard of him.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love.

[Jim Norton]

I love Nick's response in the Epstein file too. He was obvious he was blowing him off. You can tell he was blowing Epstein off. He went to dinner and I had heard about that dinner years ago where they had dinner with Epstein and Woody Allen. He wanted to meet Woody Allen.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Nick Depaolo did. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And it was with him and Jackie Martling.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Jackie the joke man.

[Jim Norton]

Pictures all over. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wow.

[Jim Norton]

But Epstein wrote to Nick and said, hey, I had a great time. We'd love to look you up next time I'm in New York. And Nick wrote. Wrote thing. Hey, it was so great meeting you. And Woody, he goes, let me digest the next part. You are a bit controversial. Like, you could tell Nick just wanted to meet Woody was blowing him off.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He want to hang out with him. Yeah. Was this after his first arrest and conviction?

[Jim Norton]

Probably years later. But I mean, who knows if Nick even knew who he was when he went, like, if Woody Allen. If you're going to a Woody Allen dinner, who the cares? Who else is there? And I found out today, I. My name was in the Epstein file. And I was so happy because I really hate being excluded. It was because I do the UFC's podcast and somebody had sent Epstein a copy of UFC unfiltered.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So it was just listed, the hosts and our guests. I don't know how it got in there, but my ex sent it to me. I was just.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Really? Congratulations.

[Jim Norton]

I was very happy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's great.

[Jim Norton]

Didn't say anything about me, but it was still. I was there.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Have you ever won anything before?

[Jim Norton]

No.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So this was a big deal.

[Jim Norton]

It was a big deal. Yeah. I'm trying to figure out, how can I say, like, humble. Brag about it. That's what I'm doing.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, let other people post and then just like it.

[Jim Norton]

But it's fun. It's this comedian, I can't think of his name. Ben something.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Ben Bailey.

[Jim Norton]

No, I know Ben Bailey. Cash Cab. Sabbath fan.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Sure.

[Jim Norton]

Played in a Sabbath tribute band. No, he's a. He's a guy. I haven't heard. They just canceled six sold out shows because they didn't like his fucking Renee good bit because he's conservative and his jokes are really funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, I think I saw that.

[Jim Norton]

It's a fucking hilarious. It's me.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Like, that was my reaction when I heard that she got.

[Jim Norton]

Yes, but the whole bit was. It was a well written, well thought out bit. Gives a shit what side he's. He's. He's doing what a comedian should do. He's being funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Unbelievable.

[Jim Norton]

And these fucking assholes in Minnesota, they cancel them.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, is in Minnesota.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, but.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, all right.

[Jim Norton]

It's still like, what babies? They just can't handle any dissent. Yep, no dissent. It's also delusional.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I mean, I like when they call you transphobic. Even you're married.

[Jim Norton]

They're right. I am now. I wasn't before I got married, but now I'm like, oh, I get it, guys. You're right, they are annoying.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, my God.

[Jim Norton]

Well, there's no right answer if you don't say it right. Neil Brennan had a funny joke where he was talking about how conservative. You say conservative, they're like, fine, but if you say you're liberal, liberals are like, we'll see. And I thought that was a good point. Like, liberals never just go, yeah, you're here and you don't walk lockstep with us.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So I found it really annoying.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And no, there's an article in the New Yorker this week about, well, now you know I'm a liberal.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, no conservatives ever started the sentence with that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I know. All right, but they have a piece about how the Republicans, starting with the Christian right and then with. What's the group that it gets young people in now?

[Jim Norton]

Epstein.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, what is it turning Point usa.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Turning Point. It's a wide tent. They basically say, here's the agenda. We love Trump. Let's get him in. Now, in your town, that might translate to, I'm gonna talk about it in my teen church group. In this town, it might mean you're gonna. You're at a biker bar and you're gonna fucking hand out pamphlets. Like, they don't say, here's how we do it. Right. Democrats come in and they go, everybody has to have these exact opinions. And then a bunch of tents pop up. It happened with the women's rights movement in the 70s. It was again, it was black, lesbian, straight, white. It was all splintered off. And nobody could just say, we're all after the same thing.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And it's very. I find it very, very annoying to me. It's the language policing and the constant scolding from people who aren't qualified to scold anybody. Like, you're not in a position to scold people for saying it wrong. Go fuck yourself.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So I, you know, I just have. From being in the marriage I'm in and just seeing how progressives respond or don't respond, you know, I've just developed kind of an even newer loathing for them.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Well, what I like about comics like you is that you're always finding the line. And that's why it's great that the seller doesn't allow phones, because.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Finding that line means crossing that line.

[Jim Norton]

Sure.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then maybe pulling back a little bit so you're sitting right on it.

[Jim Norton]

Or standing there until the line catches up. Sometimes. Sometimes. I like that. Yeah. Sometimes you kind of. Because again, this guy. And again. Is it Ben Bastis? I'm sorry, I can't remember his name, but when I watched, he did a bit about a trans.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I don't know, Beetle Bailey.

[Jim Norton]

Not Beetle Bailey, but, my God, if you didn't laugh reading that cartoon, your funny bone was broken. Ben Bankus. Right?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Ben Bankus, Is it?

[Jim Norton]

Bankus.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

All right.

[Jim Norton]

And I don't have to agree with a guy's point of view to think he's funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Like, I fucking love Nick Depolo. He's still one of my favorite comedians in the world.

[Jim Norton]

Brilliant.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But I don't agree with anything he says.

[Jim Norton]

His joke writing, it's. It's literally completely fat free.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And I've said this on another podcast recently, because he came up. It's like a fuck. It's always a fastball. It's always perfectly placed. There's no extra. There's no, it's just. It's right down the middle and it's hilarious.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, and I think, like, it's you. It's very specific. Your wording on jokes is. It shows that you actually sat down with a pen and paper and said, let me explore this idea and put some language to it.

[Jim Norton]

It should feel like there's a very famous Orson Welles commercial where he's talking about in June, the fjords. You ever see that? Where he.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Gallo wine.

[Jim Norton]

No, it's not Gallo wine. It's someone's peas, frozen peas. And he's doing the read and he doesn't like how they're telling him to do it. And he said something about it's not satisfying to say it doesn't feel good. So jokes have to feel good and they have to be satisfying flying out of your mouth. Yes, the wording has to feel good. Nick is a master at that. And. And this other guy, even though I didn't like. I mean, you know, he wasn't pro trans is bit, but I watched it, I laughed. I'm like, who the fuck cares the point of view it comes from if the jokes are good, just enjoy them. I used to love watching Paul Mooney. I didn't give a shit what his beliefs were. Funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, I mean, you look at George Carlin did all his albums at college campuses and they. They did not. Oh, you know, colleges didn't used to be like all liberal bastards. A lot of them were pretty conservative, actually.

[Jim Norton]

I interviewed Carlin on. It was Opie and Anthony, it was around 2007, and he. We were talking about censorship. And I remember him saying that he goes, I hate to say it, but it's all coming from the left now. All the censorship is coming from the left and the colleges. So even he saw that. Like, obviously he saw that. I mean, if I saw it, he certainly saw it. It's just, it's. I don't know what shifted, but now somehow conservatives have claimed Carlin. Like, they're the ones putting out. And it's like, don't you guys know? He didn't like you either. He liked you even less. And he doesn't like liberals, but he liked you guys even.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, they're also. They're also claiming Jesus Christ, who forgave everybody who helped the poor.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Who said rich men can't get to heaven through the. It's like a camel getting through an ivy needle. Like, accepted, you know, he was a. He was an immigrant. He was born in a major in a foreign country.

[Jim Norton]

That's Right. Yeah. And he was a hippie. I mean, like, he really had a hippie. It is funny to watch overly religious people and. And there's no way to say, like, if Christ was alive, he'd think you were a. Because probably Christ didn't think of those terms. But I. He probably wouldn't have thought that it's.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

A good T shirt to sell after.

[Jim Norton]

The price for a life. He'd think you're okay.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

But he probably wouldn't have liked or whatever feelings if he was the guy they say he was. He probably wouldn't if he was the guy. Yeah. Like, I don't know how.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I mean, he might have just been a nice guy.

[Jim Norton]

He might have just been a good guy. But if he was like, I don't know what it's like to be all forgiving. So I can't say he wouldn't have liked people.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But whatever negative was for him, he probably would have felt about most of these people who claim to know his work. He probably would have thought, like, wow, they're very delusional. Very wrong.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. It's hard to think about what Christianity. I grew up Catholic. You grew up Catholic, Right.

[Jim Norton]

Catechism and confirmation did it all.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Confirmation. And I fucking loved it when I was a kid, man. I talked to God, I thought about Jesus like, he was my friend. And I got a lot of my. Like, I do a lot of charity work that comes from me. Like, Catholics, fucking walk the walk.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But then you get the shame that comes with it.

[Jim Norton]

Sure.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But I like to think that the people that were in the community of the church that I grew up in were nothing like this, you know, right wing. What do they call that kind of Christianity?

[Jim Norton]

I don't know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But the evangelical.

[Jim Norton]

Evangelical. Oh, yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay. I think they really are a political group at this point.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. It's. And it becomes like a thing of. Of power. And if you don't kind of give in to their. They are as bad as the people who are scolding you for language. They're the same. You're not good enough. You know, you're not wholesome enough or. No matter how much I want punitive damage done to you and I want to inflict punishment, I still consider myself like a person of God. Like, they're just. They're just as big a frauds. But yeah, I mean, I want to. I think I want a go to Afghanistan. I really think bachabazi should catch on. Oh, you don't know about. It's the dancing boys of Afghanistan. It's so funny. These, these homophobes, these people are no gays. And they have a bunch of boys dressed as girls dancing around because women are all in the hijabs and the. Yeah, it's terrible. Bachabazi. I'm surprised you don't know about it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, look at that.

[Jim Norton]

It's a great name for a band too. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Bachabazi.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, look. Look it up. You'll never stop looking.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Think when you think about Sacha Baron Cohen going into Israel dressed as. He was dressed as like a gay.

[Jim Norton]

Bruno. Is this when he did Bruno.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

When he did Bruno and they chased him through the streets.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, I don't remember that part.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, my God, that was dangerous.

[Jim Norton]

I think I. I can't think of a funnier person than him because, I mean, Borat, like, I didn't love the movie just because some of it was scripted. I liked the show and all of it was.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But I mean, the laughs that the guy has given me are crazy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And it's. It continues to give. It's one of those movies like Tropic Thunder. Yeah, I'll watch it again. And I was still belly laugh every goddamn time.

[Jim Norton]

And, and, and Bruno was so good because. Do you remember. Do you ever see the one with Ron Paul when he gets. He's interviewing him. He takes him into a. Into a bedroom and tries to sit next to him. He's like, he's as queer. It's a three dollar bill. Yeah. Y. He's just. Yeah, he's. He's. I can't think of a funnier person. And I never knew how camera guys didn't break.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Watching him say the things. I. I watched Borat with feminists, you know, these feminists. And he was saying something about the brain of squirrel.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes. And he says, why is this man telling me Dyke Woman just one of.

[Jim Norton]

The funniest guys on earth?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No, just the level of commitment. I mean, the thing is about British comics is they don't always get traction in this country. Jimmy Carr does. Well.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But when you think about, you know, this great Irish comics that Tim. Timmy. What? I'm so bad with names lately. Jimmy.

[Jim Norton]

I don't know Timmy. I mean, there's Eddie Izzard. Did pretty well.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Did pretty well. Tommy Tiernan.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, Tommy. I know Tommy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Great.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, he is very funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Like they come over here and they play little theaters, they play small theaters, but then they go back to the UK and they're playing fucking arenas.

[Jim Norton]

They do. We had an Irish comedian in. And again, I don't Remember his name. It wasn't Tommy. We had interviewed him too, but it was another guy who I think is even bigger than Tommy in Ireland. Here in the states, they'll do St. Patrick's gigs and people know them. But you're right, it just. It's not the same.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And I don't know why. Maybe because US Culture is everywhere. More than British or Irish. I don't really know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I think Stand up is so specific to cultural references. Yeah. Just references. But meter tone. Yeah. It's almost like they're too smart. Like they come out and it feels, for a lot of them, it feels like they work too hard on it. And I think people want to see a comedian who we were talking about, like the wording, it wants. You want to feel like the words are in their rhythm and it's. And it's coming to them now. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And it's also different. Like they're such great joke writers and there's some really funny guys in Britain, but a lot you don't hear as many of them talking about personal stuff. Like, it's just not as much like the way it's. The US comics do maybe. And that's just maybe culturally they're a little different so that it's not a thing for them. But I don't see as many British comics like talking about their childhood sexual experiences.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

I'm sure they've had them, but.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right. But when they do, it's like, it's like in a one man show.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

At Edinburgh where they do it for 30 days and then they shoot a special and then they always do the same. Like Eddie Izzard, like, learned German with two other comics and they, they made a bet. They said in one year we're going to do a show in Germany. We have to do it. Can you take the video down?

[Jim Norton]

Oh, wow. I did. It's funny. I learned that too. But just to understand some of my favorite speeches. But it's interesting to hear.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Mine is my. I never knew that.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. He's a weird genius, Eddie Izzard, because for him to be able to do that, it's a, it's a staggering. Like, I have no other language comprehension. Believe if I could learn anything would have been Portug. Because I've been to Brazil a couple of times.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

For what?

[Jim Norton]

Come on.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Is that a thing?

[Jim Norton]

It was back in, in 2003. Yeah. We just, we got. Got hookers the whole time.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Who'd you go with?

[Jim Norton]

Patrice? Three times. Keith Robinson, Bobby Kelly, Jason Steinberg. Yeah. We had a Great time. And you do a lot of eating while you're there. And I wound up, like, meeting someone that I didn't even have sex with because she spoke English, so I really liked her.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, I did.

[Jim Norton]

I did. It was. But it was a. It was a fun trip. And, you know, you got to be careful when you're there because certain parts are dangerous. But I had always wished I spoke Portuguese, but that's where I would. That's where I'd want to.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I think it's called Brazilian Portuguese. Oh, I'm thinking just the opposite. Yeah, it's Portuguese. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

In Brazil.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Can we cut that out? I'm just kidding. Such a idiot.

[Jim Norton]

No, you're not. You run a tight ship. I like that. You rule with an iron fist.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I just. You ever just say something and you just go, like, are you dumb? Like, yes.

[Jim Norton]

Will you marry me?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Like you got caught up in some emotion. You said, will you marry me? That seemed like such a good idea. Yeah. And it's a funny idea because we all have it. Before you get married, you have anywhere from 2 to 6 serious I love you relationships where you see a future.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then something. They say the N word one day and just go, oh, I guess this isn't happening.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, no. That's what I say. Will you marry me? I'm like, I want that in the vows, baby.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then one day you meet somebody and you go, all right, I'm going to ignore all of those warnings.

[Jim Norton]

That's right.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And I'm going to sign up for something that there's no other thing you sign up for for life. A house, 30 years, mortgage is paid off. You rented a car for how many days this week?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, but. Seven days.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Seven days, right. And then done. And this is the only thing you go, till I die.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And by the way, this is not the only car I'm ever gonna have. This is not the only gear shift I'm gonna stick in my mouth.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

This isn't the only hood I'm gonna stick my head under.

[Jim Norton]

Exactly. The only exhaust pipe I'm going to clean out before I put my dick in. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

See your Rent a car.

[Jim Norton]

But, yeah, it is one of those things where. And I. Here's why I got married, because there was other women I've loved in my life. Because she couldn't get into the us she was having a hard time getting in Norway. She's from Norway, but she had the most. The tiniest cannabis charge. It was for a ticket she got. There was never even possession. Long story. But it was. Luckily it was such a small thing that you're waiver eligible.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So we had to go through Homeland Security and it took five years. Like, it was a long fucking process.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Was she living here?

[Jim Norton]

No, they wouldn't let her in to visit. So then I'm like, I'm going to do a fiance visa. It probably. The fiance visa itself took like two, two and a half years. It was during a pandemic, so. But they're very strict about that shit. So when I see people coming in illegally, even, I get it, because I. There's many times I would, like. I would love to put her in the trunk and sneak her in. Because I moved her to Montreal.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But I'm like, we did it legally. Like, you have to dot every fucking. I cross every t. It's strings. No, my. My attorney was amazing.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And he said the days, like, he's like, there is no one that you can just call. Like, it doesn't work that way. People think, like, you could just call your senator and he can make a call. The guy who is the lead counsel from the place was a former, I think the. One of the former attorneys for us cis.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And he. So he knew everything. And he goes, there's no one I can call because everything has to, like, be under. If it's scrutinized, it has to stand up.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

There's no Connor cutting corners, none of that shit. So we had to wait like everybody else. Wow. Very frustrating.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's amazing.

[Jim Norton]

Could Trump call someone and help? I'm sure he could.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He did with two women. I can think of.

[Jim Norton]

But even that has to stand up, like, because no one under him would go, yeah, that's fine. Because then if somebody complains, that guy's job is on the line.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

It's a really weird every. Could they cross check each other? I mean, they really check.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So we did it legally, and it was very frustrating. It's red tape. It's bureaucracy. It stinks. I get why people want to cut the line.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Also, you, at that point, you can't get cold feet. You spend five years getting somebody in. You gotta marry them.

[Jim Norton]

You have to. Well, you only have three months. You have 90 days. It was a K1 visa. You have 90 days.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And by the way, that's what that TV show is, 90 Day Fiance.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And so she came in and the advantage is this, like, so many of those marriages don't work. Because I understand that you start, you become goal oriented. Like, the goal was just to have Nikki in the States and have her in New York. And then like, all of these guys get that goal. But then when the person comes in and they get married, the goal has been achieved. There's nothing after the air comes out of the balloon. But with her, we had lived together a long time, so it was kind of like a real life. We had two and a half years of, you know, at a year and a half of living together. So, yeah, you kind of by that point, know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

And now I'm married, and it's annoying, like every other fucking married guy. But I do love her. And what am I going to do? Go back to being single?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I wanted to hang myself. Like, I mean, no.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Sometimes I see comics who didn't take the plunge and I go, like, yeah, you're jealous of Neil Brennan a little bit, but sure. You also picture, like, you know, certain comics, like, they're going to be old and alone.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You know, at a certain point, you got to just go like, hey, I'm going to need someone to help me across the finish line here.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

If I get dementia, I need somebody to show me which one's the fork.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, exactly. Well, I wouldn't trust her to. If I. Dementia were to sign, you know, Birkin bags, you know. You know, those women are. But yeah, I got. I think I got lucky. Like, I'm. I'm as happy as I can be in a relationship. Like, the half. The problem is she's stubborn, but I'm also very difficult. Like, I like being single. I like my space. And, you know, I sometimes miss my old life, which was perverted and isolated. So I forget, like, how lonely I was. Like, I'll look at, like, hey, I could do whatever I wanted. But then I forget, like, yeah, after you come, you're back in the hotel by yourself and you want to blow your brains out. You know, you're terrible and terrified and it sucks. So I have to remember that, like, I don't want to blow a marriage. And then, so to speak, I don't want to do that. And then realize. And then realize, oh, my God, I'm right back to where I was. And she. She's gone. Like, you know, you don't want to it up.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I know you talk about that in your special, by the way. I watched your special from this past year, I think came out like six months ago.

[Jim Norton]

Unconceivable.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, unconceivable, isn't it? Inconceivable, Isn't that the word?

[Jim Norton]

Well, I did it for that. For the reason the obvious reason. And inconceivable because she's unconceivable. But unconceivable is actually a word. It's an old English word. It actually does work.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jim Norton]

Because it wasn't about inconceivable as in unbelievable. I was using it as in, you know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

No conception.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, I gotta say, you know, you and I started together in New York.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I mean, literally, we were doing open mic nights together. Me, you, Todd, Barry, and Jeff Ross, Sarah Silverman, and, you know, Greg, Geraldo, and, I mean, that was exactly our class. Jim Florentine. Yep. And, you know, and I've always. I've always thought you were great.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But then you got to a certain point, I think it was when you started doing Opie and Anthea and. Or whatever, and you found. You found your voice, and you just never lost it. It's the thing that people talk about with comedy is, like, you got to find a voice, and some people never do.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You know, and you write in your voice. Your books are great, your. Your stand up, your podcasting. It's all this specific voice. And you're such a lesson in, like, because you didn't have it right away when we were starting out, you didn't have it.

[Jim Norton]

No high energy, happy to be there. It's sickening.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And Bill Burr did not have it. I started. He used to open for me for a year. He didn't have it, and all of a sudden, just fucking clicked.

[Jim Norton]

Something happens, and I don't know what it is. Like, when I got sober, I heard a guy in a meeting one time say, like, everyone's worried about finding out who. Finding who you are. Finding who you are. Just get rid of all the shit you're not. And whoever you are shows up. And I always thought of that, like, just get rid of the things that I don't want to talk about. Get rid of the. The things I don't believe. And just whatever's left is kind of who I really am and what I. You know what I mean? And that's kind of what I did. And it started to work. Like, talking about personal or embarrassing things made the other comics laugh when I started. And I was like, it must be good if those guys respect it because they don't laugh at anything. So, you know, I mean, it was, like, always one of those. But it wasn't played in the back of the room and think that I'm. You know, some guys will do that, and they lose sight of the fact that there's an audience there too stupid. You know, you're not just trying to entertain nine guys. But it made me feel like that's a good direction to head in, is just be personal and talk about what.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Were some of the things that you kind of got rid of. Like you said, being happy and the.

[Jim Norton]

End, being fake happy. Like, there's times where I'll smile or laugh on stage, but getting rid of this. The energy, the need to be high energy or to muscle jokes. It might have been Seinfeld, who I heard that term from in some interview. But the idea of forcing, like, I work out material, like, real quiet and boring, because if it works, okay, like that, it'll work when I put a little more into it. The words have to be good. Yeah, that was a big one. Getting rid of the desire to have all of them love me. Like, I want them to like me. I want to do. Well, we all want to kill, but like, I'm not willing to. To do that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Even on like a Friday night late show with a tough crowd, do you. Do you adjust or you just take the bomb?

[Jim Norton]

You know, the Friday night late shows are sometimes my best shows because my fan base is really weird. I. I tend to do better on them than I do on the Saturday early show where half of them are just going out anyway, right. And then they're like, what is this pig talking about? But if you've come to see me at 10:00 on a Friday, you know what I mean? You know, I'm a piece of shit. That's what you want. So I think sometimes the Friday late shows, which I know have treacherous reputations, Friday is usually better for me than Saturday, so.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But on a bad Saturday show, then do you find. Because, like, I mean, I'm asking this for myself because I really do find myself muscling jokes, especially lately, I feel like I've fallen into muscling jokes more than I used to and not trusting, you know, to just put it out. Because when I start bombing, I just go. I go right into, like, get in their face. And, you know, a little bit is like a Nick DePaulo kind of an energy of just like come at them hard and don't let them breathe. And then I realize I'm not letting myself breathe either.

[Jim Norton]

Well, there's times. Look, have I ever picked up the energy on a show? Right? Of course. Like, I'm not talking about, like, I never make adjustments or like, you know, if a crowd is like being talkative, a lot of times I'll slow Down a lot. It's really weird when people are talking and all of a sudden I just kind of talk slow. They. They catch themselves. So it's like, yeah, I'll change pace once in a while for just to make the show good, but I won't change, like, what I want to do. But do I ever edit a joke? Instead of doing an hour? I do 48 or 50. Sure.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Because I'm like, again, it is late, and I'm. Let's just get this done.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, sure.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But this special that came out, inconceivable. There. There. It was just. It's one of your best specials.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You've ever done.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Do you feel like that?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. It's my favorite. Everyone's last thing is always their favorite, but this one is because I was able to talk about my relationship the way I wanted to talk about it, and I was able to talk about everything kind of the way I wanted to.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Without having to, like, well, how do I word this? And how do I. You know what I mean? Without. And I don't want to preach to people. Preachers are boring. Nobody wants to be lectured.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. No, it just. It seems like you're in the pocket the whole time, and it helps that you're at the Comedy Cellar.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You know, probably the most comfortable spot in the world for you.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it was great.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you didn't move your feet, just planted it and delivered it and they shot it. Really simple.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And. And it comes through like a really. Like a club set. Like, you're. It's very intimate.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you. Yeah. I was very happy with that. I did cut a little bit. I had. I always. I opened with a Sandusky joke, which I was very proud of. Not topical, but still, you know, on point with. We all loved Red Cherry and Wrongly accused Jerry. No, but my. My producer goes, you know, for the algorithm, which you do have to think of, because you might not want to open with that. And I'm like, yeah, he's probably. I listen to somebody instead of just going, no, fuck that. Like, because there's a reality is I don't understand the language of that. Like, I don't understand the Instagram language of what makes things work. And it's almost like, I would rather pay to be on YouTube and pay to be on Instagram and have them accountable, like, because I'd be paying that, I think, well, this is why your videos are not doing well. This is what we're flagging.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But now it's Just because it's free, they can do whatever the fuck they want and never tell you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right. I'd rather change it. I change it.

[Jim Norton]

That's right.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Because the special kind of starts in the middle. It seems like you did cut something at the beginning.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I started. It was. It was a talking. And that. That line that I show, which was me talking about, I think Kentaro Kobayashi being banned from. Because of Holocaust jokes, that was my opening joke on the road. So that was a very comfortable joke to open with. But that night I had done Sandusky first, and so I was comfortable putting that first. But, yeah, it was kind of in the middle.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I like starting a special like that.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, me too. No, no.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Walk out. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. And don't shoot a short film before it starts. Although, you know who's this really funny. Matt McCusker. Did you see the beginning when I was special? He does this thing where he wakes up and he hits on his wife and she shuts him down. And then he. And then he goes outside. He's walking down the street, and then he gets, like, mugged by some homeless guys, and he stabs one to death with a syringe and he gets beat down. It's just this really funny. It's all from, like, his point of view. It's like a body cam almost. And God damn it, that was that. It's so rare that I think it's worthwhile to put that before you get on stage.

[Jim Norton]

Well, that's. If he's, like, doing it, like, as a comic being funny. That's usually. That's different. A lot of people will show, like, some. Some victory march to the stage, or they'll. You stand in the back and they walk. I've done openings, you know, they. They all wanted them, and I always tried to make them at least interesting or funny because there's nothing worse than just watching a guy walk out. Who the care. We know you walked out.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

No one thinks that you just appeared there.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. And you got two guys walking you to the stage, like, oh, do you have bodyguards? Are you a bodyguard?

[Jim Norton]

Important person coming through. Say important, funny things. It's not important.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I'm trying to think if there's anybody else had. Well, I think it's all because Eddie Murphy, Raw, the way he walks to the stage really sends that special into space because by the time he hits the stage, he's got his red leather suit. Was that raw? The red leather?

[Jim Norton]

No, delirious was red leather.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, okay.

[Jim Norton]

He was already famous. By then he was this young and it was 82, I think, or 83. I mean.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, it was.

[Jim Norton]

You know, Eddie in his prime was before 10,000 specials, right? Yeah. I think HBO's first special was. I mean, it was Robert Klein. I think it was 75. So they were. I mean, they were only Robert Klein, by the way, one of the most underrated guys ever.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Excuse me. I love Robert Klein so much. And Joan Rivers is another one. I've been on, like a real Joan Rivers. Clips popping up. I mean, she's top five. I think she's top fucking five. And she never gets mentioned in the top ten. People forget about it, right?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

They forget what a great, prolific, mean. I joke writer. Perfect mean. Didn't give a fuck.

[Jim Norton]

No, she was braver than anybody. Yeah, I mean, really, she went after everyone and she went even on talk shows. Always funny.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Always jokes, but always whatever the host asked her about, she had something funny to say. Very unprotected, underrated.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, that late night thing really her. When she started a late night talk show and Carson kind of buried her, he kind of was a douche about her.

[Jim Norton]

Never spoke to her again.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. And that kind of poisoned the water for her. And then she just never kind of. I mean, she obviously, she had all those like, E shows, but that would. That's not like mainstream.

[Jim Norton]

No. And she even that she was talking on. What was his name? Was it Jack Parkinson? I think Parky in Britain. He's very famous older talk show host. And she was talking to him about her husband's suicide and. And she was saying how angry she was at Edgar for killing himself. And then she goes, but it was my fault. I mean, we were having sex and I took the bag off my head and I'm like, what a fucking. A real moment. And then a hilarious joke.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's great.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, there's nobody better than her. I just wanted terror. I mean, she might be dead by this point anyway because she was already her 80s. But. But God, what a terrible, untimely death.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

How did she die?

[Jim Norton]

She was under anesthesia. She was getting something done.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

I don't remember what it was.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, yeah, but it was. I mean, she had a show called In Bed with Joan.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And I did it and I got under the covers of a bed with Joan Rivers and she interviewed me.

[Jim Norton]

I'm jealous of that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It was so great.

[Jim Norton]

She was scary, like. And I. I said this recently to somebody else too. Like, I can't. I was never scared of meeting comedians, but she's the only one who I was afraid of. I just. Because I liked her so much, I was afraid that she would think, like, I was a fucking dick or I was. She was. She. She made me nervous. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

How was she?

[Jim Norton]

I only met her a couple of times.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

The.

[Jim Norton]

Once on the plane. She was lovely.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And we took an awful photo together. And then at Louie's house for Thanksgiving one year, it was. He had Joan. It was Parker Posey. It was like Philip Seymour Hoffman. It was this crazy collection of people. She didn't remember me because we had met through a friend, like on a plane, but we had a mutual friend. And I said to Louie, I'm like, ah, she doesn't remember me. He goes, She's 80. Look like, you see her face. She doesn't realize she's fucking 80. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Also look at yourself.

[Jim Norton]

I. I really do remember you. Not at all. She probably thought she saw me in a tissue.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

She threw something out.

[Jim Norton]

Exactly. So, no, I was. That made it a little bit better. But I. I didn't even have the balls to talk to her at Louie's house.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Bob Kelly was so funny that day. I freeze up like, you know, like Philip Seymour Hoffman, who I loved so much I didn't know what to say. And Bobby Kelly is so good in those. Just being this funny, fucking obnoxious asshole from Boston, being himself. And just. Everybody loved him and making everybody laugh. I'm not that guy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, my God. I'm glad you said that because that's how I feel. I. I have no traction with famous people.

[Jim Norton]

No, none.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I meet them all the time. I'm polite, I'm friendly. And then I just feel like, you see, Jeff Ross every day is hanging out with fucking, you know, Steve Perry. And then the next day he's with like a linebacker from the Ram. Like. And they love him.

[Jim Norton]

They love him. I guess because to him, the only thing I can think of is the relationships aren't that important. Like, when you make the relationship more than just two guys talking, they. People can sense that. Like, you've talked to fans before and you're like, yeah, this is a little weird. He's not. He's talking to me in a different. He's looking up.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And not just talking to me. And when you're looking up, nobody wants to spend.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Why do we look up? I mean, we're worthless. Is it that. Is it low self esteem or is it. I mean, I don't want anything. Like, I just hung out with the guy from Impractical Jokers. Sal Volcano. Volcano. Never met him. Fucking love that.

[Jim Norton]

Nice guy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

We just did Kill Tony together on Monday night. Hung out backstage, exchanged numbers. And then I immediately. Like, we had a text exchange that was so flat and fucking scripted that I knew that was it. I will never talk to the. I'll see him at clubs, sure. But it'll just feel like we're meeting for the first time again.

[Jim Norton]

Well, texting is always a little. A little strange with. With somebody who you like. Like, you don't want to say the wrong thing. You overthink the text. Like, I would never overthink a text to you or someone of my other friends. You send it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

But with them, it becomes. We put more weight on every interaction and every moment. It's like meeting a hot girl. You. I go, she's beautiful. I don't want to blow it. I want her to like me. Even if we're not having sex, I want her to think I'm cool. And whenever I have a. An emotion I want someone to feel towards me. It puts pressure on how I interact because my goal is not to be myself. It's to get them to feel a certain way. But I've had that. And when it's really famous people, the important thing is to realize this relationship is probably going to be very infrequent.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like, you know what I mean? You get to know. I got to know De Niro a little bit from him. I did something with him and then he opened my special. You know, was in my opening or something. He did. Yeah. But he's always. But I. And he got me apart in the Irishman. That was through him and I. But I realized, like, I'm not gonna hang out with Robert De Niro. Like, it's not that type of a thing. You know, if I email him, he'll send me an email back. But it's not like, hey, what are you doing? You have to be willing to let those go. Like, it's a casual.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Some people don't like Whitney Cummings. Like, just we'll be at the store with, like, a super famous person and everything seems casual. And I don't know what it is about people that are famous that it makes me shut down. I don't want something from you.

[Jim Norton]

But we do want something from them. We don't want material things from them. And I don't expect to be put in a movie. But it's like, I kind of. I'm envious of what they have. Not that I want to be them. But like, I fuck, I wish I had that level.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And I want them to respect me or like me as an equal. And look, being a low self esteem comic, there is something exposing about being around a person I admire because I don't feel like I'm admirable. So I feel like they're never going to look at me and go, wow. I like, like I've had fighters and famous people go, I love your stuff. And I'm always shocked.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

That somebody famous has watched me or enjoy what I do.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And I'm like, well, I mean, I don't think I'm setting the world on fire, but it's not crazy when you're a public person that somebody saw your. And liked it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, Right. But it's.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. It's hard to believe. And there's also a part of. I'm still in awe of the fact that this is my life. Like, as much as I'm depressed, I still feel like, I mean, I get to meet people that I would only dream of meeting.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. And it's kind of cool, especially like having hosted a show on Sirius XM for so long where you're not booking all the guests. They've got bookers that are bringing you people you never would have met.

[Jim Norton]

Never.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you just show up for work and you get to spend an hour or however long uninterrupted. No phones, nobody's, nobody's interrupting you. What a fucking gift that is.

[Jim Norton]

It was, I remember, I thought that almost that exact thing. We were interviewing Ben Kingsley and I forget what it was for. It's a 15 minute interview. But I was asking him something and he's like, yeah, well, you know, and he's talking and he's thinking about his answer and I thought to myself, like, this guy wouldn't piss on me at a party. Like he would never talk to me at a party. But because you're interviewing and you're helping them promote, they're locked in, they're engaged. That in the idea of interviewing people who have to listen to you and have to. I do find that fascinating. Like, I mean, and I get why. Because when someone's interviewing me, I'm not like, you know, I'm locked in.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, Right.

[Jim Norton]

But he wouldn't have talked to me ever in real life.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you also realize how good they are at being charming and being engaged and, you know, connected. Yeah. That's how they got where they are.

[Jim Norton]

They're able to do this 100%. And during the. It Was. I don't. It was, but it was. When Biden was president, we interviewed Trump on UFC Unfiltered. They had reached out to us. He'd only done one podcast, I think the Nelk brothers and this guy I know, like, kind of a mutual person. We know, because. Would you want him on you and Matt? I'm like, of course. It was before he got the nomination to run again. And we did it at Trump Place in Vegas, the hotel. And it wasn't political. Dana didn't want it to be political. He's like, the UFC is a sporting organization. We're not fucking politics. Like, so we just talked to him for about 40 minutes about boxing and MMA, and his memory was amazing. No kidding. I mean, people thought his memory was so good. People thought we had cards set up for him. And look, I know all politicians are nice to people, but when he walks in the room and he's talking to you, there's no one who would have had that conversation, who wouldn't have enjoyed talking to him. You can't not be taken in.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It seems like every interaction he has, from Joe Rogan to mom, Donnie, to leaders of the world, they sit in a room with him and they get charmed.

[Jim Norton]

The guy is Bill Maher.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, right. Bill Maher.

[Jim Norton]

There's something. But I don't think it's just a Trump thing. I think it's Obama, it's Clinton, it's George Bush. There's something about a guy who is able to convince 100 million people to vote for, to whatever it is. There's no way. You don't know how to alpha everybody in the room. I mean, like, you don't get to that place without being really good at winning people over. And they said Clinton was a master of it. Like, he walks in, he locks in. You feel like you're important. They have a gift. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you, man. I'm listening to you. I'm acknowledging you. So I, I think all of them, if you've won or come close to winning, you have that ability because you can't get that far if you're just a no personality dud. If you can't charm people, you probably. You're a comptroller. That's as far as you get.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, well, I think about, like, Michael Dukakis running for president was so funny because he kind of. He was the guy, you know, he's the guy we got behind. And you look at him and you go like, this guy, literally, just because he sat in a tank he lost the election. That's how incongruous he was with being, Being a winner.

[Jim Norton]

That hat, that helmet or whatever it was with his tie and the chin strap.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But it shows how stupid he was because JFK in Dallas, believe it or not, I think he was speaking. And they also could have used a helmet. He certainly could have. I mean, he did look sillier by the end of the day. I mean, who knew it was gonna get worse? But they offered him a cowboy hat to put on at some thing in front of an audience. And he goes, he took it and he goes, you bring me this in the White House and I'll put it on there. He handled it. He gently deflected, but he knew that he, he didn't want a stupid photo of him taken. He didn't want an asshole picture of him with a cowboy hat looking ridiculous.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right?

[Jim Norton]

So in 1961 or 63, whatever it was, he knew Dukakis didn't learn that. Yeah, look, Howard Dean was ruined by.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And Jeb Bush by. Please clap. There's these weird moments people have that expose them as, like, not crooks or, but it's like, oh, yeah, like, you know, we don't care how many people you. I don't care if you cheat on your spouse, but if you humiliate yourself in, like, a schoolyard way, people can't get beyond that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right?

[Jim Norton]

People like, oh, you're a fucking tool.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Now. You look at Trump. I've never seen him not in the suit like other presidents.

[Jim Norton]

Other than playing golf. Yep.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, yeah, that's true. That's true.

[Jim Norton]

But he does, he, he, again, deflects and handles things. He's a unique case, though. He's weird. Like, he says things. I think one of his big appeals, which is not even a political idea. It's the idea that he can't be scolded. And if people would stop scolding, that wouldn't be such a unique quality. Yes, but it's a unique quality in today's world because everybody's like, I didn't mean to say that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

He's like, yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And there was something about that that people really liked.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

He just, he was unscoldable. And I wish more guys were like that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Are you concerned about the midterm elections being affected in any way by politics?

[Jim Norton]

I, you know, I, I, I think it's gonna be more Democrats win because of the way ICE has, has handled things. I think people are just fucking furious. Am I concerned? Not really. You know, it's exactly exactly what I knew was gonna happen is happening. Now that conservatives have it. It's all anti trans, unreasonably so. It's all, you know, fucking, you know, religious liberty is the excuse for every anti gay or ever homophobic shit thought someone has. But, you know, when the progressives get it, they'll infuriate me again too. It's like the whole country is just filled with unreasonable twats.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, Right.

[Jim Norton]

You know, it's like you look at the Epstein files. They're all. I don't mean the people, but the ideologies are all in it. Like there's nothing. It's not like, well, progressives really stepped up. They're in it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Conservatives are in it. You know, when people think they're different. No, that should show you they're all the same.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I mean, that's the thing about. I was talking to somebody about like the view from space when you see Earth and how people all have the same takeaway. They go, I look at that and I go, how is that filled with fighting? Right. They're all just fucking people on. On a. On a fucking globe, you know? And then you look at the heart of what it is. What are the earmarks of what separates us by parties? Do we really. Do people really care about trans? Like, are there. Is there that much. Is that affecting your life that much? Like it's, you know, or with the Democrats, like, do you care that much about what words people are using? It's like, we all want economic stability, we all want decent education, we want health care, we want to retire at some point. That's it.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's really all that matters. And both sides agree on that.

[Jim Norton]

Did you ever see in Full Metal Jacket, there's a moment where there's. My favorite character in Full Metal Jacket is there's an old general. What's that? Some kind of sick joke? That guy who fucking accuses Matthew Modine of a sick joke. And he goes, come on in for the big win, son. And I think that's what everybody wants to do. They want to come on in for the big win. They want to do it culturally. So that's where all this fake is coming from, this fake attachment to. Don't make fun of Charlie Kirk. Don't make fun of Renee. Good. Don't make fun of. Well, pretty, whatever his name was. Maddie Petty. Sorry. Pretty. Pretty. It's all this fake. Everyone thinks, you know, their. Their sacred cow shouldn't be my. It's all fake. It's all nonsense. People just want to Go in for the big cultural. They want to ride in on top of the tank.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

Bunch of frightened people who don't want to get left out in the cold.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right. I know. And we depend. It really depends on where you live and who your parents were. That's 97% of how people.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That's what their opinions are. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You either go exactly that way or 100. The opposite.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Yeah. But. But mostly I think people go that way. Were your parents. What were they politically?

[Jim Norton]

Pretty. Pretty middle of the road. Like, my dad's got.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Mail delivery guy.

[Jim Norton]

Yep. He was a former. But he's a former command sergeant major in the army. He's gotten more conservative as he's gotten older. I mean, he's 84. And my mom was always pretty liberal, but they were, like, with my life, very accepting. Very. And not in a fake way, but like, yeah, we love you. We don't care who you. And they've never. They've never had that type of social. It's always like, the language and the force feeding of a liberal ideology kind of turned my dad off. But I wouldn't call them. They're more conservative because they're really old. Most people in their 80s.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right. Right.

[Jim Norton]

You know, you're looking at God going.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I'm at the end of the end of the line here, so forgive.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Everything, even right to the end. All right, I'll sign up for that.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that looks like I have a place to go.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

It's like retiring. Nobody wants to retire because you. You feel like there's nothing to keep you going. That's probably how it is when you're about to die.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

If there's nothing to look forward to. That's why all people ignore young people.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Because you don't want to see all the great shit that's about to come that you're gonna miss. Like, I ignore young culture because I don't want to know that they're gonna live to be 140.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And these great lives and they're gonna be able to replace body parts and cure cancer.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Fuck them. I want it all to end when I go.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Right.

[Jim Norton]

I would sign up for that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

If the day I die, if the planet would just implode. Fuck all of you. I would sign up for that. I'm selfish.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you sound like a potential suicide bomber. You just gotta find a cause you care about.

[Jim Norton]

I know, I know. I just. I can't think of anything that, with my luck, I'D live. I'd finally blow my mantis off and I'd be alive.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then your wife has to take care of you for the rest of your life.

[Jim Norton]

That's almost satisfying. I have no chest or stomach and she's got to clean my shitty diapers. Maybe it would be worth it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. I don't know what I would die for. I. You know, when I think about it, like, I mean, I guess this country on some level.

[Jim Norton]

I don't know, maybe, I don't know.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But then I watch the Olympics and people chant USA And I just go, ugh.

[Jim Norton]

It's the biggest. Who gives a fuck? I mean, I admire the athletes. What they do is amazing. I just, I have don't care at all. I have no good or bad feelings about the. I don't care if they win. It means nothing to me.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No. And when they chant USA I get embarrassed.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Like you didn't train the fuck did you do? You don't get to take a W out of this. Yeah. And then, and then the whole idea, like when you go to a football game and they fly jets overhead and then they bring out a guy who is in, you know, Fallujah and everybody claps. The fuck does that have to do with a bunch of guys banging their heads against each other carrying a football?

[Jim Norton]

Nothing. And if they really wanted to do, instead of letting, instead of thanking people for their service as this empty word you're firing out, how about you give them a big discount on the flight ticket instead, instead of saying thanks for your services, they're boarding first. How about instead of 2000 you charge them 500? How about you charge them less taxes? That's how you thank people for their service. Not your, like, you know, not you. Not your stupid boo boo just flies out. Thanks for your favorite. Doesn't mean anything, right? Give them something. Yeah, give them a discount. Yeah, I'm sure they would prefer to have that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, give them homes. There's so many veterans that are homeless, it's insane. And it's because they have mental illness, because they put their lives on the line. They, they have, you know, brain trauma.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah. And they're in. I live right down the street from a VA hospital in the city and I don't know how many. I'm sure some of them are drug induced. After they get out, you start getting high, self medicated. And some of the them, yeah, the mental illness is. It fucks you up by being there. And some of them may have had it before they went in, like just I'm going to go in there. Maybe they went in for the wrong reasons, but. Yeah, they don't get treated. Like for all of the, for all of the, the. The lip service people pay them. Yeah, they don't get treated. You want to, you want to treat somebody? Well, just give them money off on things that the rest of us are paying for. That's how you show someone you really appreciate it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right?

[Jim Norton]

Charge them half price for cars.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know, I'm sure that they would go, yeah, keep your compliment to yourself. Charge me price for the car. I'll take that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You ever get a Marine coin from somebody? I had this Marine give me this. Just really nice. It's like a thank you from a Marine coin.

[Jim Norton]

No, but when I decided not to join, like, here, take this, you fat headed panty boy. No, when I went. When Colin and I were in Iraq in with Lori Kilmartin In 2003, we went over to do troop shows.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So right after the. Or I guess the war was.

[Jim Norton]

It was going. No, it was still going. We were in the Green Zone in Baghdad.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But it was. We performed in two of Saddam's palaces. It was really an interesting trip.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wow.

[Jim Norton]

We got to go see these Green Berets who were there since like October of 2001. Like right after 9 11. They went over and started to infiltrate in Afghanistan and they took us to Saddam's private weapons cache. Is that what it's called? Cash?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And Lori Kilmart, there's a great video of her pointing one of Saddam's guns at me. It was really me and Colin sat on Saddam mom's toilet and bidet. But when we were. What were we just talking about? Oh, they would give us the coins. There was a lot of people that had these coins that were just whatever they meant, but they would just give you a coin from their. Whether it was their division or you know, one of the. One of the majors or the generals. So yeah, I got a bunch of them.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

From guys overseas.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Isn't that funny? We should be giving them coins.

[Jim Norton]

100. Yeah, they're just giving us things that we put in our drawer. We don't know what they mean. I don't know what valor is. I have no valor. Valor. I don't wear a condom. I guess that's. It's bravery in some. There are things I could teach a Marine about bravery.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, I used to like that guy Kennedy. What was the comedian?

[Jim Norton]

John F. No. Oh, oh, and Andrew Kennedy. Ted Kennedy. Another funny guy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Ted Kennedy was funny.

[Jim Norton]

I was the best.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Jesus Christ.

[Jim Norton]

You're mad at your girlfriend, Ted? Take her home.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Take her home.

[Jim Norton]

Drive her home.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Down on the beach. He's in his fucking 70s with no pants on, chasing girls around like it's a Three Stooges movie.

[Jim Norton]

You had to love Ted Kennedy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, my God. He drank with everybody. That's back when politicians. There were guys like Tip o' Neill and Ted Kennedy, a lot of Irish guys. Those guys sat at the fucking bar on K Street or whatever, and they shot the shit, and shit got done, man.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And they weren't as vitriolic. Like, everything wasn't about a petty language win. Although there are times where I really enjoy it. Like, even guys who I don't agree with. This is a guy. I think his name is Brandon Gills. He's a. He's a congressman or a senator, but all he does is question progressives, like, but ask them about their tweets. And he really does show you how full of shit they're. What they've said and what they don't know, what they're talking about. So I really love this guy. Even though I agree with probably nothing he stands for. I still enjoy watching frauds dissected.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

You know what I mean? You don't have to love a guy to enjoy watching him do surgery.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So I. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No, I used to like this Charlie Kirk. I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk, but when he would take apart a college student in front of a crowd.

[Jim Norton]

Amazing.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

That was pretty good.

[Jim Norton]

And the fact that people like. Yeah, I didn't agree with him at all. But the fact that he would actually go there. Steven Crowder does the same thing. They engage people.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Even if you don't like them, at least they're fucking sitting there in a hostile area. I mean, obviously, going back and forth with people just because he went to Oxford and debated. Like, Charlie Kirk wasn't just sitting in some fucking echo chamber. He was actually out. And if you have a better idea than that guy, that's how you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Jim Norton]

Just shut him the fuck up with a better idea.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It makes you challenge your own ideas a little bit. I think I've gotten much more into that in the last, you know, probably the last five years. Yeah, I've definitely. I'm not saying I've come further to the right, but I think I'm more like you, where I'm. I'm deconstructing both sides.

[Jim Norton]

Well, the left seems. And I think it's like a dial. It just turns where the conservatives get more conservative and the leftists get more liberal. So it's like, even if you're not necessarily moving, they are. So it's kind of like a weird shift. So it feels like, wow, I've gotten conservative. But no, they've just kind of. You know, I never wanted to punish people for saying things in my whole life. I've never wanted to punish people for. But I don't care about politics of my friends, either. I don't care. Like, I. Nick's a guy I love very much, and Patton, I love. Like, I love Patton Oswald. I think he's really funny. I don't give a shit who he votes for. None of that means anything to me.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

So when it means something to other people, like, when they're. How could you be friends with that guy? He said that. I immediately lose respect for the person asking that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes. No, I just did Rogan this week, and people.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, whoa. That's right. I draw the line.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

People go, you didn't. And then I get. I get DM's efforts. You didn't fucking correct him on this and that you didn't stand up for this and go, what? Do you tell me what you do at work? Do you go to work and find a guy who you disagree with and make a fucking scene at work? Do you dress him down at a meeting in front of everybody else, or do you talk to him and discuss things and value the friendship? I mean, I've known Joe for 35 years.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And the funny thing about this is, why these frauds who are always attacking Rogan. I'd love to, like, listen to plenty of things he said I didn't agree with, but I just don't agree with him. And I still live my life how I want to live it. So they'll go like, he's dangerous. He's spreading misinformation. And I'm like, well, then you've never listened to him. And they're like, well, no, I heard what he said. All right, well, then you heard what he said and came to your own conclusion. Why can't other people do the same thing?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like, they give themselves the intelligence to dissect what's true and false, but no one else has that same intelligence, and.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

They want to explain it to people.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And. Yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Infuriated. And it's fake. It's more fake. You shouldn't talk to this guy. He engages everyone. And you know what? Half of these fake podcasters would never invite me on. The fact is he's I text him, he text me back. Like, he doesn't need to do that, believe me. He's just giving me legacy loyalty because he knows me a long time. He's like, ah, the poor little fat baby bodied idiot. Trust me, it's mercy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Just guilt your way on.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, I love him. I'm a pity. He's a good guy.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It is funny when you get to. When you've been doing it as long as us, they're sort of like, we're kind of like our ticket is punched and we can kind of get on. We can get on stuff just because, you know, we just lasted. We just lasted.

[Jim Norton]

And guys are friends with you and comfortable with you, like, you know, you don't have to prove anything. And I love those guys in Austin, man. I really do. People shit on that scene. I love that scene. And I just, I know from interacting with the comedians there, how they respond when you reach out to them.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And they don't need to.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

And then some of these other guys I got ghosted by, I'm like, fuck you, you sucker.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Jim Norton]

So you know, you, you, you, you love people who show you love.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yep. All right, listen, let's get to fastballs with fits. Page 2. You ever been arrested?

[Jim Norton]

Yes. Not I. I'll say yes, but I have to. I was very young. I was 15. And I was in a car with a bunch of people. Or I was 12 or 13. People who were smoking pot, and I wasn't smoking it. So I got cuffed and taken there. Yeah. But I wasn't smoking. I was just kind of sitting there.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And they all vouched for me. And then I got a subtle arrest for the Opie and Anthony show in 2001 on the voyeur bus when we.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, right.

[Jim Norton]

Myself, Louis Clinton was in town.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And you didn't know it.

[Jim Norton]

His parade route. We were too close to his parade route. Bunch of naked girls on the bus, flashing Christmas rush. So, yeah, we got hauled in for 27 hours, but the charges were dropped. It was.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

What was the cell like?

[Jim Norton]

The cell we were in, Al Sharpton cell. They had a shelf of Sharpton. He wasn't there, but they called it the Sharpton cell. It' put Reverend Al when he got arrested and they was like nine of us. It was me, Louis, Rick, the producer, and a bunch of guys from the voyeur bus. And everybody in the, in the, in the whole lockup knew what we were there for. So they thought it was kind of cool that we got arrested for a radio show. On a bus with a bunch of naked girls. So nobody fucked with us.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Did the naked girls get arrested?

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah, they did. They got. They. But put with. With the women. Sure.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

They should have videotaped that.

[Jim Norton]

I know, I know. There was one whose nipples were so good, I've remembered her for 20, 25 years.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Now she's in a jail cell with eight other hotties.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tinkling. You have to tinkle. It was scary, though. Made me never want to go to jail. I always pay my taxes because that one night I'm like, wow, you're really helpless in here.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like, you know, I didn't. Which was the worst part, because the toilet was so disgusting. There was no door. And I just was like, oh. It was. It was a. On, like to be there for a length of time. You're like, wow, this is awful.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And this is only one night. So that. That kind of made me want to always pay taxes and just kind of not get fucked up.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Where did you lose your virginity?

[Jim Norton]

I was in my. I think it was in my house, in my bedroom. Now, again, this is vaginal fucking a girl. I was 18. I mean, my oral virginity. I mean, I was probably. Probably five or six in some apartment hallway. What, blow jobs or all that stuff?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. What do you mean? Like, blowing your friends?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And they were blowing you?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And how old were you?

[Jim Norton]

You know, I. It sounds like an exaggeration, but I was about five. And I know I was because I have. There was a bully who I used to. I used to suck his dick in the hallway.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Take his edge off. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Really did. Trust me, I knew how to make friends, even at that age. I may not have a great bike, but wait till you feel this. But I have a. I remember I was scared of him, so I was running and I fell and I split my head open because I saw him coming out of an apartment. And I have a picture of myself with a bandage on my head. And it was from October of 73, so I was 5 when that happened. So I have a very, like a photograph time frame of that. Yeah, it was right around there.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wow.

[Jim Norton]

But that. But I didn't actually have sex until I was. I started, you know, going down on girls. Probably in that period. A little bit girl, but just kissing around.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And then when I was like 14 or 15. For real?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You ever go down on a girl who was on her period?

[Jim Norton]

I've done it, but that's where you just kind of, you know, you concentrate on the clit. You know, it's like an alligator. He just kind of above the. Above the area. I didn't go crazy. Some I admire guys who don't mind it, but to me it was the one thing I couldn't do.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Vampires, they call those guys, God bless.

[Jim Norton]

Me, some red wings. I just couldn't do the. The period.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Who's your best Asian friend?

[Jim Norton]

Probably Yoshi Abayashi. Oh yeah, I love Yoshi.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Good friend, producer.

[Jim Norton]

He was. I don't know what he's doing now. I mean he's a comic and he's always, always had interesting stories and he knows everybody. But I would have to say Yoshi.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, I remember because you and I both hosted the porn awards. That's probably where you met him, right?

[Jim Norton]

I met. Yes, I met Yoshi in. It was January of 04. I was hosting. It was. Myself and Jenna Jameson were the hosts.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Jim Norton]

It was a great one.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And this was back when it was like a 6,000 person, 7,000 person event. You know, it was before all the cams and stuff. And Yoshi worked for Evil angel. So somebody introduced us and we became fast friends. And remember 50 Cent, Mike Tyson were on the floor that day. It was. Was madness. It was a really great time. Really great. When did you host?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I did it twice.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, me too.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

One of the times it was like one of the 7,000 person ones and I was with Tara Patrick and after the show there was. And she was having a party back in her suite. So I went back there and her boyfriend, manager, there's a lot of those.

[Jim Norton]

Evan Seinfeld or no.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yes.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So he used to play basketball for usc.

[Jim Norton]

Did he?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Is that the guy we're talking?

[Jim Norton]

He's a musician.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, no, no, different guy, different guy.

[Jim Norton]

Guy singer.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So this guy, we go in the room and it's a bunch of hot porn stars laid out in various undress on the couch. And I walk in and everybody's on ecstasy. And then her, her husband, manager held me down and put ecstasy in my mouth because I told him I was sober and I wasn't going to do it.

[Jim Norton]

Really.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

As I'm laying there with this guy shoving ecstasy in my mouth and I'm looking at all these hot chicks, I'm thinking, thinking this is a lot of guys dreams right now. Yeah. But he put it in. I went in the bathroom and I spit it out and then I left. That was my big after party experience.

[Jim Norton]

I had one at the. I was. It was after that one I didn't get laid at the porn awards. I was there for a couple days.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I thought you did a train with Ron Jarrett.

[Jim Norton]

I was gonna say I wasn't getting laid. And I went up to Dennis Hoff's room. Yeah.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And the guy that owns the Bunny Ranch.

[Jim Norton]

He owned the Bunny Ranch. Yeah. Which I never went to, by the way. He and I were friends, and he would always invite me. I just never went.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And Ron was a girl, and there was like, three or four naked girls. And Dennis is one on the table. And Ron goes, hey, she needs a. In her mouth. And she was like, yeah. Like, you know, she was very game. And I did it for, like, five minutes. And it was just so awesome to be on a train with Ron Jeremy. And Dennis took pictures.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

No way.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I have two pictures of it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You do?

[Jim Norton]

And he complimented my penis. He said, you got a nice piece. So you got a pretty good piece.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Ron Jeremy said, which might be.

[Jim Norton]

It might have just been him being polite. Like, if a comedian sells someone, hey, you're pretty funny. Like, he knew it would. It would really.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Dwight Gooden saying he got a good fastball. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Let me see if I have it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wow.

[Jim Norton]

I won't show it on camera because the girls.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

But you'll see the look on my face.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. If I have it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Surprised. It's not your home screen.

[Jim Norton]

I know. I don't know if I have it. Well, you know, Ron got a little trouble, so I was like, we probably should.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. I went to the Bunny Ranch once.

[Jim Norton]

How was.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Was just gross. It was like a bunch of trailers. It's not. It's not like a nice building. Yeah. It's like a bunch of conjoined trailers. And I asked my wife if I could go, and she said, you can, but you have to bring the. The feature. I had a girl open it for me. Forget her.

[Jim Norton]

What a great wife.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

She's a great wife.

[Jim Norton]

What a great wife.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So I went. I got the tour. And then Dennis pulled me aside, and he goes, hey, you can have any one of these girls. And I was like, well, I've never been with a whore before, and I don't think. It wasn't the $125 that's been holding me back.

[Jim Norton]

Right, right, right. It wasn't the giant. It wasn't the cost. It wasn't a cost cutting measure. God damn it. I'm looking, man.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I keep looking. I'll ask you another question.

[Jim Norton]

I got pictures from that time.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Have you ever not finished a set on stage?

[Jim Norton]

Yes, it was. I'll have to find It. It was in 1992 or 93. I was working at Rascals in Ocean Township, which was my home closet club. And I would only do the open mics in the bar area. And then, like, the main room would have, like, Kinison. It was such a great time.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I remember that room. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And one night, Bob Levy. You know Bobby.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Sure. I love Bob Levy.

[Jim Norton]

Reverend Bob Levy. He was one of my favorite guys. When I started, I really looked up to him. And Bobby was hosting a new talent night in the showroom, and they put me on it, and I was so nervous to be working with Bob Levy. And Bobby went up and murdered up front. Even though he wasn't a host, he was just. You know, he did crowd work and he just killed everybody. And then I went on and bombed, and I was. I was so fucked up. I stopped. I went, am I too dirty? And some guy went, get some new jokes. And I was like, I'm sorry I wasted your time. And I walked away. I was so. I cried all the way home in the car, and I went. I'll never forget that. I was walking and some guy went, ah, you'll get him next time. And I just like, no, there's never going to be a next time. So I'm fucking bawling all the way up the parkway. And I called Ward. Ward Magnuson, who was the manager at the time. I'm like, I can never do this. And he goes, well, I guess you got to do some soul searching. And that's like a recovery term. And I don't know why that got me. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna go on again. And I think the only reason I didn't go on the next night was Desert Storm happened. Okay, I think I'm getting my. It wasn't 92 or 93. It's probably 91.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

91. It was Desert Storm, fall of 91.

[Jim Norton]

I think everything was closed, the clubs, all the mics. None of them were happening. Because I remember saying this, I'm gonna go on. And I couldn't because of that.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Okay.

[Jim Norton]

But that's the only time I didn't finish.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Wow. I was driving to the Naval Air Force base, the naval base in Groton, Connecticut. You know, they have that submarine naval base. Okay. So I'm in Boston. I'm driving down there with this guy, John Groff, and we're had. They had a feeling that Desert Storm was about to start. Remember, there was kind of a buildup, and so we had to call in our Social Security numbers. And get clearance to get on the base. So we're driving down and we're listening to the Celtics game on the radio. And then a fucking announcement came on that we just attacked, invaded Iraq. So we pull over and we call the agent. We go, should we continue on to the gig? She's like, I haven't heard anything. So go. So we get to this naval base which is on high alert. These dudes are going, yeah, that night or the next day, and they fucking had the comedy show. And we had, like, 300 Navy guys in the crowd just cheering like, this is it. Yeah, it was fucking great.

[Jim Norton]

They were great crowds, right?

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

We. When we were in Iraq, I remember one night we. One day we did. We stood on the back of a flatbed truck and a bunch of army guys who had just come in off the field, and they were all such nice crowds. I mean, they were so happy you were there.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

They.

[Jim Norton]

There was no cynicism and no. They were. They were really for. Colin was so funny. I remember we were in Kuwait, and he was talking about how everybody was wearing pantsuits like they were on the Mary Tyler Moore show. And I just. That joke was 20 fucking three years ago. I heard that, and it still makes me laugh once a week.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

What is. What is the last time you apologize? Like, real apology?

[Jim Norton]

Good question. I'm sure it was with, like, my wife. When we fight, she'll go, apologize, say you're sorry, like. And I'm like, I'm not sorry. But I'll say it just to shut her up, and she'll say, just to shut me up. But the last time I was like, wow, I'm really sorry.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

When you generated it yourself, you weren't asked for it.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, wow.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Hmm.

[Jim Norton]

Probably to a club owner for ticket counts. I mean, I've got a few of those to dole out this week too.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, my God.

[Jim Norton]

It might have been with my wife, though, when I'm sure it was with her in an argument, like, yeah, I'm sorry I said that. I was kind of. What? I just said something. I was sorry. I was being kind of conti. Whatever. I was recently. I was cranky about something, and I said I was sorry, but it was probably to my wife. I just don't remember. But I could remember the feeling of going like, nah, I was a little.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Well, that's kind of a program thing. I think you learn how good it feels to make amends, right?

[Jim Norton]

Step 10. Yeah. When we were wrong, promptly admitted it. And I think it's step 10 it does feel good, but it also feels good to be self righteously indignant and hold on to it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Those two are combinations.

[Jim Norton]

That feels great. That feels great. Saying you're sorry feels good, but being self righteously angry feels great.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

You got to do a couple laps on the self righteous and then you get off the exit.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. By the way, my, my, my apologies.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah. Finally, let me ask you, what is the hackiest bit you've ever done?

[Jim Norton]

Probably, I mean, early on, it's hard to say because you're just finding yourself, but I was at the Cellar one night and I was doing a joke about.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

How long ago was this? I mean, early on.

[Jim Norton]

No, it's probably in the early 2000s. I mean, you know what I mean? It was maybe 18 years ago or whatever, but I mean, it was still. I should have known better. I was doing a bit about. I cut a fart and it trailed me into the car and how the fart was moving behind me. And I looked up at the door and Colin and Keith Robinson are in the door staring at me. And I'm like, oh, I'm so busted. I was so caught.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

This is the two last people you want.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, my God. We used to take each other to hack course like in the early 2000s that we would stand around and go over each other's bits and take each other to hack court. And you had to defend your bit in front of. I would do it with Keith and you know, Kevin was. Hart was young at that time and Colin and Voss and we would take each other to hack.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Hilarious.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That thing you're doing. And very rarely did you win in hat court. It was a very, very high conviction.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Made a TV show out of that. That's hack. Great idea.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. It is funny when we take each other's bits to hack court. A panel of comedians has to decide if you're a hack.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Yeah, well, you're definitely guilty on the fart following you in, but you know, a fart joke. I always think about a fart joke like Carlin. Carlin did fart jokes.

[Jim Norton]

He did, but I wasn't giving them what he was giving them first.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Right, right.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, he would earn it. He did it to lighten the mood and bring back people off a ledge from social truths. I did it because, hey, it did follow me and I'm going to talk to people about. Our motives were very different. He was a genius, kind of loosening the mood and I was just fucking. I thought the fart was funny. Yeah, I figured I'd Share it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Jim Norton has a special called Unconceivable. You can see it on YouTube. I highly recommend it. It's one of the best. I mean, it's so fun. Whenever I have a guest on, I always watch their specials, but I don't. I don't always make it to the end. You know, you watch 20 minutes and you get it. I could not fucking. I want to watch it again.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you, man. Thanks, Craig.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then also, you got some tour dates coming up. You're going to be in May 9th in Warren, Michigan. This doesn't come out for a week.

[Jim Norton]

That's fine.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then Uncle Vinny's in June. How about that?

[Jim Norton]

Well, I will also be in Feb. In April. I'm going to be at the Mothership in Austin. I'm away with Louie, which is why there's such a huge gap in dates. We're going overseas for six weeks. I'm going to be in Turkey and India, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Bucharest, all these crazy places. So I'll be gone for. That's why my tour has a giant hole in it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Oh, got it.

[Jim Norton]

That's gonna be a lot of fun. I think I. I'm dreading India, because I don't want to all week, dude.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

It's the one place I say I never want to go there in my entire life.

[Jim Norton]

I said that. And he's like, well, I booked there. And I'm like, well, I guess I'm going. Oh, wow.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

So you guys doing like five shows a week?

[Jim Norton]

It's a bunch. Yeah. And he sold out on most of them. He sells everywhere. It's crazy. Which is kind of nice to know that these shows are going to be good.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

And then you come back and do Uncle Vinny's.

[Jim Norton]

Absolutely. And don't sell it.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

Don't sell it out. There's only 13 seats.

[Jim Norton]

No. And it's nice to know that Louis can sell out fucking 6,000 seats in Thailand, but I can't sell out 50 seats. I can't deliver kids my own goddamn neighborhood.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

All right, man. Well, thanks for coming on. Great seeing you.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, always. I love you, man. Thank you.

[Greg Fitzsimmons]

I love you too.

[Jim Norton]

Sam.